Deepcut: The Army's Shame


Deepcut: The Army's Shame

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Transcript


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How would you describe Deepcut as a camp?

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Dreadful.

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Discipline was just slowly deteriorating.

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What we were expecting was to be treated like proper soldiers,

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but we were treat like shit...

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from day one.

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In the 1990s, thousands of young people came to Deepcut

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to learn to be soldiers.

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Four of them would die here in mysterious circumstances.

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Today, a coroner said one, Cheryl James, had taken her own life.

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We know her means of death, obviously,

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but those last few minutes leading up to it,

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I think, you know, for the rest of our lives,

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there will always be a question mark about that.

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After 20 years,

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recruits are speaking out about a culture of bullying and abuse.

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I felt the one hit...

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AGONISED YELL

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..and broke my fingers.

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And that's the last I remember, really, of that.

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He came up to me and whispered in my ear,

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"I'm going to kill you if you say anything."

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I thought, "I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

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Because that's what he said he was going to do.

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For the first time,

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some of them break their silence about sexual abuse.

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-TEARFULLY:

-And somebody forced themselves onto me.

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I was trying to tell him to stop, but I couldn't

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because I was just held down.

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I used to watch an advert called "Frank".

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It was a mind-blowing video - the dramatics, the sound effects.

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I wanted to give something to the country, I wanted to be

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proud of the country, I wanted people to be proud of me as well.

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I want to be that guy on the telly.

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I want to be that guy on the video.

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-VOICE-OVER:

-If you want a job with a bit more adventure and excitement, to be Frank, join the army.

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In 1995, the new recruits were told to report to

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Pirbright training centre in Surrey...

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..next-door to the sprawling Deepcut army base.

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Here, the mainly teenage recruits would spend their first ten weeks.

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They'd learn the basics of army life.

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I was...scared,

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but excited.

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I think, for me, it was quite shocking.

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Just it's the first time away from home for any length of time.

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I remember standing there with my bag, thinking,

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"Have I got enough socks and underpants?

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"And who's going to do my washing?"

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It was just like, "Wow, I'm here!

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"It's just amazing! I'm going to start making friends."

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And that was the start of the whole journey

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of me being in the British Army.

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And then, I remember they would say, "The fun starts tomorrow.

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"Get a good night's sleep, get yourself unpacked."

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And it was almost a false sense of security because they were

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so overwhelmingly nice that you thought, "This isn't too bad."

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MILITARY HORN PLAYS

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-Who can remember what time you were told?

-Seven o'clock, Sergeant.

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You are already late for day one.

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-YELLS:

-Do you understand?!

-ALL:

-Yes, Sergeant!

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This 1990s footage shows basic training

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at another army base, Winchester.

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SERGEANTS YELLING

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The British Army has always instilled strict discipline

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into its recruits.

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-Go!

-Get a move on!

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What was the regime like?

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Um, very strict.

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Very, very strict. You did what you were told.

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If you start fucking fumbling about,

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he will stand there all day and keep asking you more and more questions.

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You had to make sure that your locker was clean and tidy,

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your bed was made properly with your hospital corners...

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Unlock your lockers.

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If everything wasn't up to scratch, then you'd get things flung

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out of your locker, your bed unmade and sheets chucked on the floor.

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If somebody had let the team down then there would be hell to pay.

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The usual kind of thing, really,

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that you'd expect from joining the army.

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-Get a move on!

-All right, what's this fucking orange stuff inside here?

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What is it?

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Rust! What's rust doing on it?

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Corporals and sergeants were the instructors who led the training.

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Rust! It's more rust!

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So out of ten weapons, I've now got six that work!

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The instructors at Pirbright,

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they're the ones that'll turn you from a civilian to a soldier.

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-Move!

-Clear out, get down!

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They're pushing you to your limits,

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they're screaming at you, they're shouting at you.

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Basically, they're just making your life hell while you're there.

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Prepare to move! Go!

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Instructors at Pirbright were fantastic.

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They were very hard, but fair.

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Get changed, now! Let's go!

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I can remember every day perfect.

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And now, looking back, it was good fun.

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It was hard at the time, but good fun.

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However, that wasn't everyone's experience.

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GUNFIRE

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We had to make a shell scrape,

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which is basically a shallow trench...

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..and ours wasn't done deep enough.

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It was...lopsided, basically.

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The corporals stood around and basically shouted at us,

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said it wasn't good enough and turned around and said,

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"Shaw, lay in there!" So I laid in there.

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Next thing I know, they all jumped in on top of me...like a bundle.

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One of the instructors landed feet first on to Danny Shaw's back,

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causing a hairline fracture.

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It was really, really, really, really painful.

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You know, it was like someone had grabbed hold of my spine

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and pulled it out - that's how it felt.

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I was upset.

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I was trying not to cry, basically. You know?

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You're in that environment now, you're a soldier.

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You don't cry, you don't cry.

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I was the only black female within the troop.

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In fact, I was the only black female in the whole squadron.

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Go, go, go, go! Go! Come on!

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Dawn says she was targeted from the outset.

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GUNFIRE

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I'd gone to collect my shells from the bullets.

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I was told by a lieutenant who had eaten a banana to take

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the banana peel and to place it in my pouch, "You monkey."

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I then took the banana peel and placed it in my pouch.

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I was quite weary.

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Um...

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Confused.

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Um...

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But I didn't want to give up. I didn't.

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It didn't stop from there, really, from Pirbright.

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It carried on from Pirbright to Deepcut, to my unit,

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which was the worst time of my...

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Gosh...

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Yeah.

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Um, it didn't stop then.

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The word that they used to use was "nigger" -

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that was the word.

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And it was a word that they all used - "Nigger, nigger" -

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and I just didn't understand why that would be a word

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that the British Army would use.

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They'd made it through their ten weeks basic training.

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The recruits were now soldiers.

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From Pirbright it was a short move to

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the next-door barracks known as Deepcut.

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Here, as members of the Royal Logistic Corps,

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they'd undertake specialist training.

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It got built up to be a place which was full of opportunity

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and...a proud place to be.

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But once we got there, it was a very different story.

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A place where fear was instilled from the very moment

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you walked through the gate.

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What we were expecting was to be treated like proper soldiers,

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to be given the respect that we thought we'd earned

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during that ten weeks...

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..but we weren't. It was the total opposite.

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It was ten times worse than the basic training.

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We were basically treat like shit...

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from day one.

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They did single out a few women, and a few boys as well,

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that they didn't like.

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There was one quite big incident, where a girl was pulled out

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of the parade because she had some hairs on her upper lip

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and under her jawline.

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They humiliated her in front of everybody

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and made her stand there and have a shave.

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Julia Bolton was one of the few female non-commissioned officers, or NCOs.

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She'd been to Deepcut eight years earlier

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and was shocked at what she now found there.

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-How would you describe Deepcut as a camp?

-Um...

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Dreadful.

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It wasn't a happy place.

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Discipline was just slowly...

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..deteriorating, I would say.

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Not just between the NCOs, but with the recruits as well.

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-Was it out of control?

-I would say so, yes.

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There was a lot of bullying by instructors, that was obvious.

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Some of the instructors were thugs,

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in particular, Sergeant Gavigan.

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Sergeant Gavigan? He was a brute.

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He had a split personality.

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You heard him before you saw Sergeant Gavigan.

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If you saw him coming, you walked the other way.

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Some trainees described Sergeant Andrew Gavigan as a role model.

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His superiors also praised him for his compassion

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and concern for young soldiers.

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But those who got on the wrong side of him tell a different story.

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There was an incident where Sergeant Gavigan and a female Lance Corporal...

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And because I was friends with the female corporal,

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Sergeant Gavigan didn't like that.

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Dawn had offered to give evidence to support a complaint

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the Lance Corporal was making against Sergeant Gavigan.

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And because I stuck up for the Lance Corporal, because we were friends,

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he came up to me and whispered in my ear,

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"I'm going to kill you...

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"if you say anything."

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At that particular point...

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..I became frightened, scared.

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I thought, "I'm going to die. I'm going to die."

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Because that's what he said that he was going to do.

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Andrew Gavigan says he has no recollection of Dawn Benjamin

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or this incident.

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When he was trying to impose discipline,

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Sergeant Gavigan would sometimes tell trainees

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they were about to get a visit from his twin brother.

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Who I actually thought was another person

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because he changed in a split second.

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He would go into the building, come back out

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seconds later, absolutely red-faced, shouting, screaming, spitting.

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He scared the shite out of me.

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YELLING

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When we were on a basic fitness test doing the mile run, he was in front

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with one of the female recruits and he was really encouraging her.

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I thought, "That's really good." You know, good example.

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And he kept encouraging and encouraging her,

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and then suddenly he just stopped and snapped, and the picture I have

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in my mind is he didn't physically touch her, but he just

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went for her verbally and it looked as though he went purple with rage.

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And then he just stopped, and ran off and left her.

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When I went back to the squadron, I just mentioned this

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in the troop office and they just laughed and said,

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"Oh, now you've met his twin brother!"

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I didn't want to see it again and I didn't want it to happen to me.

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Sergeant Gavigan wasn't the only individual feared by some trainees.

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There was a wider culture of brutality at the base.

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This is Sean Benton, filmed passing out from basic training.

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Nine months later, he was found dead.

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I went through training with Sean, me and Sean passed out together.

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Sean Benton was from the seaside town of Hastings in East Sussex.

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Determined to avoid a dead-end job, he joined the army at 19,

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hoping to be a driver.

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We were both in and out of trouble

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and we just seemed to be drawn together.

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There was always a little bit of a swagger.

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He'd always have this... I can still see him now

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with a smirk on his face, as he had to get the last word in,

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even if it had got him into trouble.

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More than once, Sean was punished for indiscipline...

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..and he seemed to become a target.

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I remember him telling me

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that people had come into his room wearing respirators...

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With a respirator, you can't see who's wearing it.

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..and attacked him, basically, not bullied him.

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Attacked him.

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Beat him.

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How can you report something like that?

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For all you know, the person you report it to could have been

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one of the persons in the room wearing the mask.

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It's...

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..scary to think that that could be the case.

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Sean told his friends about other violent incidents,

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including being forced through a first-floor window.

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It really got to Sean.

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He changed in the short time over at Deepcut

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to what he was at Pirbright.

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He'd still try and have the last word, but...

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He wasn't as bubbly as what he was.

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Sorry.

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Sean Benton wasn't the only recruit to say he suffered physical abuse.

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Dan Griffiths said he was the victim of an attack by an instructor.

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He just came straight towards me.

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He then... He didn't push me over with his hands,

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he just pushed me over with his body.

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You could see that he was angry and we didn't know why.

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He then stormed back out.

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30 seconds or so later, he came back in with a broom handle.

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AGONISED YELL

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I felt the one hit and broke my fingers.

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And then he swung against my head,

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and that's the last I remember really of that.

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Dan Griffiths lost consciousness, but he says the attack continued.

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I then learned that he'd gone into the broom cupboard,

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and got the other half of the broom handle and come back in,

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and then carried on whilst I was unconscious. He just beat me.

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I remember walking to the medical centre in a lot, a lot of pain.

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It hurt.

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I remember not having the confidence to say what had actually gone on,

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so I just said that I fell down the stairs.

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After six months,

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recruits were committed to at least four years of army life.

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They couldn't leave Deepcut without permission and many say

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there was no-one in authority they could go to with their problems.

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Under intense pressure, some contemplated suicide.

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I was getting bullied. It was getting too much for me.

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I ended up having a knife, I would take myself to the toilet...

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In my mind, I wanted to just end it all.

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I just broke down crying.

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And I think the person that actually talked me out of it

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actually heard me crying.

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Because he said, "Who's that in there? Are you all right?

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"What's going on?"

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All I remember is trying to distract him...

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..trying to just get through to him on some level,

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just to take his mind away from the place that he was in at the time.

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He was saying, "It's not worth it, think of your family.

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"Think of your friends."

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And...

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I think that's what made me realise, you know,

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maybe it's not worth doing it.

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Were you surprised to find somebody in that state?

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Surprised?

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Looking back, I'd probably say no

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because of the pressure that we were put under.

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By June 1995, Sean Benton was on the verge of being

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kicked out of the army.

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He felt a failure and was desperate

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to see the military chaplain, the padre.

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When Sean asked to go and see the padre, he was refused to leave camp,

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because the Garrison Church is just off camp.

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So if you want to leave Deepcut camp,

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you had to go and ask permission.

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And when he did that, he was told, "No, he's not allowed."

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He wasn't who I had finished training with,

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he wasn't the same person.

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He was down.

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In the early morning of June the 9th, 1995,

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Sean Benton was found dead, with five gunshot wounds to his body.

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I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral.

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As a friend, it was horrible.

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A short inquest and an army inquiry concluded Sean had killed himself.

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There was no investigation as to why he might have done this.

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We weren't allowed to speak to anybody about it.

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We weren't even allowed to discuss it in phone calls home.

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It was as if they were trying to control everything from the inside.

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In the spring of 1995,

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a new batch of recruits had begun their training,

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many with the same high hopes of an army life.

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Amongst them was Cheryl James.

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Even when she was getting told off, she always smiled.

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Most of the time it broke up that episode, whatever was happening.

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It brought out the light and people stopped, and it was nice.

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And that's how I remember Cheryl now, just always laughing,

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always happy.

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Keep going!

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Jog right down to the end.

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I met Cheryl James at Pirbright.

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She's got that very infectious smile,

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which is evident straight away.

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She was just a very, very bubbly girl, right from the word go.

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She was proud and I was proud of her,

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and she looked very, very smart.

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There wasn't a hair out of place.

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It was as if to say, "Look at me, mum."

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She could have been the poster girl for the army.

0:25:160:25:19

They were all sent off to their different camps and things,

0:25:210:25:24

and I can remember thinking they were just youngsters, children, really.

0:25:240:25:28

And what sort of a soldier was Cheryl?

0:25:310:25:34

She was great. She was kind of the glue of our troop, really.

0:25:350:25:39

-SOLDIERS:

-Lift up, 2-3-4-5, down, swing!

0:25:390:25:43

We spent all our time together and we had some really honest chats...

0:25:430:25:48

..and we just really bonded.

0:25:500:25:54

On the 27th of November, 1995,

0:26:050:26:07

just over a month after her 18th birthday,

0:26:070:26:10

Cheryl was on routine duties at the base.

0:26:100:26:13

Monday morning, we were both on guard duty.

0:26:140:26:18

I was on the front gate, she was on the rear gate,

0:26:190:26:22

so we had to report to the guardroom at 6.30.

0:26:220:26:26

She was her usual bubbly self.

0:26:260:26:28

We were actually stood outside the guardroom chatting

0:26:280:26:31

for a while, just laughing,

0:26:310:26:32

until one of the sergeants tapped on the glass

0:26:320:26:35

and said, "Oi, get a move on."

0:26:350:26:37

I was there as soon as the gate that Cheryl was guarding was open.

0:26:420:26:46

I spoke to her for a few minutes.

0:26:480:26:50

She seemed quite happy.

0:26:500:26:51

And then she said to me that she was going

0:26:510:26:54

to see her boyfriend the following weekend...

0:26:540:26:57

..and then was about it and I left.

0:26:590:27:01

I got to about the top of the hill, away from the gate.

0:27:060:27:10

GUNSHOT

0:27:120:27:14

I heard one single gunshot.

0:27:160:27:18

It was close by. It was unusual to hear just one shot.

0:27:200:27:24

A few minutes later, the gate was reported unattended

0:27:290:27:32

and a Lance Corporal went to investigate.

0:27:320:27:35

He saw a camouflage jacket on the ground by some trees.

0:27:370:27:40

It was Cheryl's body.

0:27:410:27:43

She'd died from a single bullet wound to her head.

0:27:450:27:48

The doorbell rang and there was a police officer

0:28:040:28:08

and an army officer, both in uniform, standing at the front door.

0:28:080:28:13

It's a horrible, horrible feeling.

0:28:210:28:24

You're not even part of the universe.

0:28:250:28:29

It's just... Everything's swirling around

0:28:290:28:31

and you can't... It's intangible.

0:28:310:28:35

You can't... Nothing is real.

0:28:350:28:38

So many questions and nobody there to answer them.

0:28:390:28:43

The policeman went.

0:28:430:28:44

-This was a temporary... What sort of army officer was he?

-A local.

0:28:440:28:50

Yes, he was just in the sort of...

0:28:500:28:52

He'd just been asked to come to the house.

0:28:520:28:55

-There was nobody from the camp...

-Nobody from the camp or anybody that...

0:28:550:28:58

..either visited or telephoned.

0:28:580:29:02

-There was no contact from the camp.

-Nothing at all.

0:29:020:29:06

It was all done by the guy who knew nothing,

0:29:060:29:09

other than she'd taken her own life.

0:29:090:29:11

The army decided that Cheryl had killed herself...

0:29:150:29:18

..but an inquest recorded an open verdict,

0:29:200:29:23

which raised questions over whether it was a suicide.

0:29:230:29:27

My question all these years has been,

0:29:290:29:32

if they investigated it as a suicide, doesn't that beg

0:29:320:29:35

the question that the evidence must have been overflowing?

0:29:350:29:41

Clearly.

0:29:410:29:42

But...there wasn't any.

0:29:420:29:44

And all of those things became questions that just burned

0:29:450:29:48

away then, for years and years.

0:29:480:29:50

Cheryl James and Sean Benton's deaths seemed destined

0:30:000:30:04

never to be properly investigated.

0:30:040:30:06

But seven years on, that changed.

0:30:130:30:16

Two more young soldiers, Geoff Gray and James Collinson,

0:30:260:30:31

had apparently killed themselves at Deepcut.

0:30:310:30:33

The BBC programme Frontline Scotland

0:30:360:30:38

linked the deaths for the first time.

0:30:380:30:41

'Tonight, we investigate disturbing claims about the climate

0:30:460:30:51

'of fear and intimidation at Deepcut.'

0:30:510:30:53

It aired the families' questions about why their children had died.

0:31:050:31:09

I hold the army totally responsible for Geoff's death.

0:31:130:31:17

The army owed Geoff a duty of care

0:31:170:31:20

and they failed in that duty of care.

0:31:200:31:23

We looked after him 17 years...safely.

0:31:230:31:28

The army had him for seven months...

0:31:290:31:32

..and he was dead.

0:31:350:31:36

The four families were brought together for the first time.

0:31:400:31:44

There's Sean Benton -

0:31:470:31:49

he was found shot...

0:31:490:31:51

..with five bullets to the chest.

0:31:520:31:54

My daughter Cheryl died at the same camp in November 1995.

0:31:540:32:00

When we first got together,

0:32:020:32:04

we clearly had this common bond that all the families had experienced.

0:32:040:32:10

And of course...

0:32:100:32:13

the context had now become not two deaths 19 weeks apart,

0:32:130:32:17

but four deaths and some of them almost seven years apart.

0:32:170:32:22

The families believed the army and the police

0:32:270:32:30

had failed to investigate the deaths properly.

0:32:300:32:33

The parents were questioning whether they really were suicides.

0:32:380:32:42

For the army to turn around and say suicide and expect us

0:32:450:32:47

to accept it, they're not on.

0:32:470:32:50

I mean, we'll go to the ends of the earth to find out

0:32:500:32:52

what happened to these kids.

0:32:520:32:53

Now under pressure from the families and the media,

0:32:580:33:01

Surrey Police began looking at all the Deepcut deaths.

0:33:010:33:05

We have absolutely no intention of rushing the investigation.

0:33:080:33:11

We'll be as thorough as we possibly can

0:33:110:33:14

and it will conclude as and when we feel that we've satisfactorily

0:33:140:33:18

gathered as much evidence as is available to us.

0:33:180:33:21

Cheryl's family still believe there was a possibility that she

0:33:250:33:28

hadn't killed herself,

0:33:280:33:30

but they felt the new police inquiry wasn't open to that.

0:33:300:33:34

Officers were asking witnesses in the early days of their

0:33:350:33:38

investigation, "Why do you think Cheryl James took her own life?"

0:33:380:33:41

That was the first question.

0:33:410:33:44

And no-one will ever convince me that investigation

0:33:440:33:48

was open-minded, ever.

0:33:480:33:49

One of the senior officers involved

0:33:520:33:55

in the reopened investigations agrees.

0:33:550:33:58

I was staggered, I was appalled,

0:33:580:34:01

because, to paraphrase it, the tenor of the report, to me,

0:34:010:34:07

was, "We know these were suicides,

0:34:070:34:09

"will you just get on and prove it, please?"

0:34:090:34:12

Surrey Police strongly deny they had a closed mind-set.

0:34:160:34:19

After an 18-month investigation, they said there was no

0:34:220:34:25

evidence of anyone else being involved in the deaths.

0:34:250:34:28

Then details of statements were leaked.

0:34:330:34:36

The Deepcut culture became part of a review by a senior lawyer.

0:34:410:34:45

A report into the deaths of four young soldiers has highlighted abuse

0:34:500:34:54

and institutional failures at the Deepcut army barracks.

0:34:540:34:58

Nicholas Blake QC recommended independent scrutiny of army life.

0:34:590:35:04

An armed forces ombudsman should be appointed...

0:35:050:35:09

..independent, that is to say, of the military units.

0:35:100:35:14

The report also criticised a culture of bullying at Deepcut,

0:35:150:35:19

but stopped short of saying it had played a part in any of the deaths.

0:35:190:35:23

It fuelled the families' demands for a public inquiry.

0:35:250:35:29

There's never been a meaningful inquiry into all of those allegations.

0:35:320:35:36

There's never been a meaningful inquiry regarding

0:35:370:35:40

the culture of the camp.

0:35:400:35:42

How did it happen?

0:35:420:35:44

When did it happen? How long did it last?

0:35:440:35:46

None of that's been answered.

0:35:460:35:49

Clearly, nobody has been made accountable for the culture

0:35:490:35:54

that pervaded that camp and was allowed to pervade the camp.

0:35:540:35:59

There's not been one person.

0:35:590:36:01

For Cheryl James's family,

0:36:110:36:14

all that was left was to campaign for a fresh inquest.

0:36:140:36:17

In February this year, that finally began.

0:36:180:36:21

What the family wanted was a public examination of all

0:36:210:36:24

the evidence and a verdict that they could have confidence in.

0:36:240:36:28

We felt that the only thing we could do was gather all the evidence

0:36:290:36:35

that was out there and it is some consolation,

0:36:350:36:38

that at the end of the process, you can say to yourself,

0:36:380:36:41

"Well, you know, we've done everything we possibly could."

0:36:410:36:44

The inquest focused on Cheryl's state of mind before her death.

0:36:490:36:53

The court heard she'd been trying to choose between

0:36:540:36:56

two soldier boyfriends and that other trainees had been critical

0:36:560:37:00

over the way she was treating the two men.

0:37:000:37:02

It also looked at whether bullying was a factor in her death.

0:37:060:37:10

Dan Griffiths gave evidence about something he says

0:37:150:37:18

he witnessed some time before Cheryl died.

0:37:180:37:21

I saw Cheryl one night, as I came from the NAAFI.

0:37:230:37:27

ANGRY SHOUTING

0:37:290:37:31

I heard a lot of shouting and I thought, "That's a bit strange."

0:37:350:37:39

This is at night-time.

0:37:390:37:40

It was very close, but very loud.

0:37:400:37:42

And so I popped my head round to see what was going on.

0:37:460:37:49

Straightaway, I knew I shouldn't have been there.

0:37:490:37:51

It was... Sergeant Gavigan was shouting at Cheryl.

0:37:510:37:54

She looked very scared. She had her back up against the wall.

0:37:540:37:57

He was only a couple of feet from her,

0:38:020:38:04

he was shouting at her very loud. She was very upset, she was crying.

0:38:040:38:08

I decided to wait there for Cheryl.

0:38:130:38:15

And when she came back round the corner,

0:38:200:38:23

I just mentioned, "What was all that about?"

0:38:230:38:25

Straightaway, she said to me, "You're better off not knowing."

0:38:250:38:28

At the inquest, Sergeant Gavigan

0:38:410:38:43

was asked about his relationship with Cheryl James.

0:38:430:38:47

He denied knowing her, or that he'd reduced her to tears.

0:38:470:38:50

He was also questioned about his behaviour more generally.

0:38:520:38:56

Were you aware that many of the recruits were petrified of you?

0:38:570:39:00

No.

0:39:000:39:02

There was two sides of me.

0:39:020:39:04

There was my natural side - my caring, my supportive side -

0:39:040:39:07

and that's how I'd always, throughout my army career,

0:39:070:39:11

managed and led people.

0:39:110:39:13

Sergeant Gavigan denies that he abused or mistreated trainees.

0:39:140:39:17

He says he only needed to shout at them sometimes

0:39:190:39:21

because there was only one of him and up to 300 of them.

0:39:210:39:25

So, at times, I would have to be verbal

0:39:260:39:29

and I would have to conduct myself in a way that was

0:39:290:39:32

different from how I would like to have conducted myself.

0:39:320:39:35

The allegations against Sergeant Gavigan only relate to bullying.

0:39:350:39:39

Cheryl's family also wanted the inquest to investigate

0:39:420:39:45

whether there was sexual abuse.

0:39:450:39:47

Jane Warboys gave evidence about something that happened

0:39:510:39:53

to Cheryl while she was on a driving course.

0:39:530:39:56

I could see straightaway that there was something wrong with her.

0:39:580:40:01

She was visibly shaken and upset even then.

0:40:010:40:04

It was just this one sergeant who locked her in the office

0:40:040:40:10

and I think he wanted to have sex with her,

0:40:100:40:13

and she was describing a situation

0:40:130:40:15

where she was running around the desk to get away from him.

0:40:150:40:18

The inquest heard from over 100 witnesses.

0:40:220:40:25

Crucially for the James family,

0:40:280:40:30

other soldiers' evidence their lawyer wanted to introduce,

0:40:300:40:33

including allegations of rape, was excluded.

0:40:330:40:37

The coroner said it wasn't a public inquiry.

0:40:370:40:40

We made submissions to the coroner

0:40:410:40:43

because there were some concerns that there were patterns

0:40:430:40:46

of behaviour, or other incidents described,

0:40:460:40:48

which could be relevant to issues affecting Cheryl

0:40:480:40:51

and, unfortunately, the coroner decided that that was not

0:40:510:40:54

going to be a suitable subject for his investigation.

0:40:540:40:58

But now soldiers have come forward to speak

0:41:030:41:06

publicly for the first time about what they suffered.

0:41:060:41:09

Alison was 17 when she joined up.

0:41:140:41:17

She's asked us to conceal her identity.

0:41:180:41:21

She says that, during basic training,

0:41:220:41:25

non-commissioned officers, NCOs,

0:41:250:41:27

bragged to her about sleeping with trainees.

0:41:270:41:30

The NCOs that were there at the time, I mean,

0:41:330:41:36

they were quite predatory in their pursuit of young recruits.

0:41:360:41:39

I was told, at my passing out parade,

0:41:410:41:44

two of the NSC told me

0:41:440:41:46

that I'd be having sex with them in my formal dresswear...on that day.

0:41:460:41:51

It was...

0:41:530:41:54

..apparently more special because I was a virgin

0:41:560:41:59

and it was a bit of a challenge.

0:41:590:42:02

For some instructors, it was more than just talk.

0:42:080:42:12

They were prepared to force themselves on unwilling victims.

0:42:120:42:16

Alison was escorted to a superior's office,

0:42:170:42:20

where she says she was, in effect, blackmailed.

0:42:200:42:23

They knew that I'd started a relationship with

0:42:250:42:28

a girl in my troop.

0:42:280:42:30

I was just taken down to his room.

0:42:330:42:36

He explained as well the fact that

0:42:360:42:38

if I didn't go through with what was going to happen in the room

0:42:380:42:41

then the girl that I'd started the relationship with,

0:42:410:42:44

she wouldn't pass out and neither would I.

0:42:440:42:46

Can you just explain what he did do?

0:42:510:42:53

He...

0:42:540:42:56

fingered me.

0:42:560:42:57

-He put his fingers inside you?

-Mm-hm.

0:42:590:43:02

And then he told me he'd been waiting for that for a long time.

0:43:020:43:06

-Did you...ever think, "I've got to tell somebody about this"?

-No.

0:43:080:43:13

No, I did not.

0:43:140:43:16

And why was that?

0:43:160:43:18

Because who would listen?

0:43:180:43:19

This wasn't an isolated incident.

0:43:260:43:28

Gillian was another teenage recruit.

0:43:340:43:37

We've disguised her appearance.

0:43:370:43:39

I was just... Just turned 17 the November before...

0:43:400:43:43

..and I was quite shy and quite sexually inexperienced.

0:43:450:43:49

The day of the passing out parade was exciting.

0:44:020:44:05

I was really proud that I'd finished my training.

0:44:050:44:08

My sisters and my parents were going to be there to watch me.

0:44:100:44:13

Everybody was excited.

0:44:130:44:15

A corporal who was one of my instructors asked me

0:44:180:44:21

to go back to the female accommodation,

0:44:210:44:24

so I went back and walked into the female room.

0:44:240:44:27

And he wasn't there.

0:44:290:44:31

And he called me from the shower room...

0:44:330:44:35

..and so I went into the shower room.

0:44:370:44:38

And he pushed me up against the wall...

0:44:450:44:47

..and he started kissing me.

0:44:490:44:51

And then he put his hand up my skirt,

0:44:520:44:55

and into my tights and into my knickers,

0:44:550:44:58

and he put his fingers inside me.

0:44:580:45:00

And with his other hand,

0:45:020:45:03

started fondling my breasts through my shirt.

0:45:030:45:05

-Did you attempt to fight him off?

-No.

0:45:090:45:11

One thing I'd learnt from training was that you don't talk back

0:45:130:45:16

to your NCOs...

0:45:160:45:18

..and you don't fight back.

0:45:190:45:20

The next thing I can remember is going back to see my parents...

0:45:250:45:29

..and everyone asking me where I'd been...

0:45:300:45:32

..and I told them I'd just been to collect my bags.

0:45:340:45:36

Halt!

0:45:390:45:40

The inquest didn't examine evidence of sexual assaults on young soldiers.

0:45:500:45:54

However, it did look at problems in the Deepcut chain of command -

0:45:570:46:01

this included sexual misconduct by a senior figure at the base.

0:46:010:46:05

This is Stephen Buchanan.

0:46:080:46:10

In 1995, he held one of the most important posts at Deepcut -

0:46:100:46:14

he was the Regimental Sergeant Major.

0:46:140:46:16

There was talk about...

0:46:190:46:21

..girls going up to Sergeant Major Buchanan's

0:46:240:46:28

room in the Sergeants' mess

0:46:280:46:30

and inappropriate behaviour at various dos.

0:46:300:46:35

There was definite feeling that he was over-stepping the mark

0:46:350:46:39

with his authority.

0:46:390:46:41

In the summer of 1995,

0:46:450:46:47

Sergeant Major Buchanan had drunken sex with a female private.

0:46:470:46:52

He would later claim he didn't know she was a soldier.

0:46:520:46:55

Rumours began to circulate and, by the Autumn, he'd lost

0:46:560:46:58

his commanders' confidence and was transferred to Catterick Garrison.

0:46:580:47:03

It's now emerged there were also question marks over

0:47:080:47:11

the calibre of some of Deepcut's other non-commissioned officers.

0:47:110:47:14

A lot of them were actually put there

0:47:170:47:21

because no-one else wanted them.

0:47:210:47:22

It sort of had a bit of a reputation of being a dumping ground to

0:47:220:47:25

get rid of unwanted NCOs.

0:47:250:47:27

In 1996, a new senior instructor, Leslie Skinner, arrived at Deepcut.

0:47:320:47:37

We were introduced to him as "Staff Skinner."

0:47:390:47:42

We were to address him as Staff Skinner.

0:47:420:47:44

He seemed a plausible guy, nice guy, full of stories,

0:47:440:47:48

and we thought he was just one of the lads.

0:47:480:47:50

In fact, Leslie Skinner wasn't a staff sergeant.

0:47:520:47:55

Two months earlier, he'd been court-marshalled for indecently

0:47:550:47:58

exposing himself to a teenager while serving in Northern Ireland.

0:47:580:48:02

He'd been demoted to the rank of private.

0:48:050:48:07

He'd often turn up, sit and have a drink with us,

0:48:090:48:12

which was fine, he'd have a laugh.

0:48:120:48:14

We didn't think anything unusual of him.

0:48:140:48:16

One evening just before Christmas,

0:48:210:48:24

Mark Harrison was alone in his room.

0:48:240:48:26

Skinner came in.

0:48:310:48:32

I thought he was just coming in to have a chat and stuff.

0:48:320:48:36

Then he just, out of the blue, out of nowhere, he just pounced on me.

0:48:360:48:40

He grabbed me by the back of my neck and

0:48:400:48:44

...was trying to kiss me, basically.

0:48:440:48:47

I tried to pull away, but he just held me harder

0:48:490:48:52

and...you know, quite, it was hurting quite a bit.

0:48:520:48:57

Erm...

0:48:570:48:59

And I was shaking at this point. I didn't know what to do.

0:48:590:49:03

You know, there's this guy in my room doing this.

0:49:030:49:07

You know, what was I to do?

0:49:070:49:09

You know, I didn't know whether to hit him and run or what.

0:49:090:49:12

There was all sorts going through my mind.

0:49:120:49:15

He told me to get dressed

0:49:170:49:19

and that we were to go to his room at the other side of the camp...

0:49:190:49:25

..which I felt might have been a bit of an escape route

0:49:280:49:31

because I thought, well, hopefully, I might see somebody on the way.

0:49:310:49:34

But that didn't happen, unfortunately,

0:49:420:49:45

and...

0:49:450:49:47

That's when we...we went up to his room.

0:49:480:49:51

And...that's where he abused me.

0:49:570:50:00

What did he do to you?

0:50:030:50:04

Erm...

0:50:080:50:09

Well, he...

0:50:190:50:20

-It's hard saying this on camera, isn't it?

-Did he rape you?

0:50:260:50:29

Yeah. Yeah.

0:50:290:50:30

What happened after that?

0:50:360:50:39

He told me to get out.

0:50:390:50:40

And...

0:50:450:50:46

..I just grabbed all my stuff and ran.

0:50:480:50:50

Erm...

0:50:510:50:52

Basically, just got in the shower for a couple of hours.

0:50:530:50:57

And I couldn't think of a way out...

0:51:010:51:03

..so I decided to...

0:51:050:51:06

..carry on - go and do my guard shift...

0:51:080:51:09

..the next morning.

0:51:110:51:12

And...

0:51:140:51:15

..but that's when it happened again, the following night.

0:51:160:51:19

I didn't tell anybody.

0:51:240:51:25

I didn't trust anyone in authority.

0:51:260:51:29

It were just easier to brush it under the carpet,

0:51:300:51:34

for me, and carry on.

0:51:340:51:35

Subconsciously, you...you destroy yourself inside.

0:51:370:51:40

And, ultimately, it led to me...

0:51:450:51:47

..trying to take my own life.

0:51:490:51:51

You know, it wasn't a cry for help, you know? I didn't...

0:51:510:51:53

I didn't want to be here.

0:51:530:51:55

I couldn't live with...

0:51:550:51:57

with what he'd done to me.

0:51:570:51:59

How do you feel now, 20 years on?

0:51:590:52:00

I'm furious with the...with the Army.

0:52:030:52:05

You know, he didn't start this at Deepcut.

0:52:060:52:09

To be put into an environment with vulnerable...

0:52:090:52:13

..kids, basically...

0:52:150:52:18

to, to do what he wanted.

0:52:180:52:21

The powers that be knew...

0:52:210:52:24

and protected him, and that's what I'm very angry about.

0:52:240:52:27

In 2004, Leslie Skinner was given four and a half years in prison

0:52:320:52:37

for sexually assaulting young soldiers.

0:52:370:52:39

A charge of rape was left to lie on file.

0:52:390:52:42

The Army has accepted that, at Deepcut, there was

0:52:480:52:50

a morally chaotic environment,

0:52:500:52:53

with an abuse and misuse of power.

0:52:530:52:55

Today, at the Cheryl James inquest,

0:53:030:53:05

the coroner ruled that it was Cheryl who inflicted the fatal shot

0:53:050:53:09

and that she had intended to die.

0:53:090:53:11

He was critical of the regime at Deepcut

0:53:120:53:15

and the fact that Cheryl was placed on lone guard duty,

0:53:150:53:18

which was a breach of Army regulations.

0:53:180:53:20

He could find no evidence of any motive

0:53:220:53:24

as to why she might have killed herself.

0:53:240:53:27

He ruled out sexual abuse in her case,

0:53:280:53:30

but he did focus on a "sexualised" atmosphere at Deepcut.

0:53:300:53:34

We've found that, in this sexualised atmosphere,

0:53:400:53:43

young soldiers were subjected to violent sexual assaults,

0:53:430:53:46

including rape.

0:53:460:53:47

Suzanne was another young woman

0:53:510:53:52

entrusted to the care of the British Army.

0:53:520:53:55

I switched the light off and I got into bed...

0:53:580:54:01

..and I was, like, half asleep.

0:54:080:54:09

Then the next thing...

0:54:110:54:12

I was getting held

0:54:120:54:14

and I felt something being put over me head...

0:54:140:54:18

and I couldn't breathe, and I started getting punched at first,

0:54:180:54:22

and I was getting held down.

0:54:220:54:24

-SOBBING:

-There was more than one. I can't say whether there was...

0:54:240:54:27

I know there was definitely two.

0:54:270:54:29

And then I was...

0:54:320:54:33

forced on.

0:54:330:54:35

And it just seemed to last for ages and I couldn't breathe.

0:54:370:54:39

I tried to fight at first, get them off me, but I couldn't...

0:54:390:54:43

..and it just seemed to last for ages...

0:54:440:54:47

..and I didn't want them to.

0:54:500:54:52

I was trying to tell them to stop, to stop,

0:54:520:54:54

but I couldn't cos I was just held down.

0:54:540:54:56

I didn't tell anyone -

0:55:120:55:14

I was too frightened to.

0:55:140:55:16

I was just scared cos I didn't know who it was,

0:55:170:55:19

and you couldn't talk to anyone.

0:55:190:55:21

I could've be going to tell somebody who'd been in that room.

0:55:210:55:25

I still haven't been able to talk about it for the last 20 years.

0:55:250:55:28

At Cheryl James' inquest, the Army finally apologised to her parents

0:55:460:55:51

for failures at the camp that could have contributed to her death.

0:55:510:55:55

Today, her family describe Deepcut

0:55:560:55:58

as having a toxic and horrible environment for a young woman.

0:55:580:56:02

I think there is still

0:56:030:56:04

an enormous problem with sexualised culture within the Army

0:56:040:56:08

and you don't just see that in these stories that come out of Deepcut.

0:56:080:56:12

You still hear those stories today.

0:56:120:56:14

This sexualised culture remains an entrenched

0:56:140:56:17

and a very, very difficult problem for the Army.

0:56:170:56:19

The Army says its culture is changing,

0:56:210:56:24

but admits there's still some way to go.

0:56:240:56:26

No Army spokesperson would appear in this programme.

0:56:280:56:32

However, in a statement, the Army said one of its highest priorities

0:56:320:56:35

was to treat all soldiers with respect.

0:56:350:56:38

It also says it's addressed many issues relating to

0:56:390:56:42

the welfare of recruits,

0:56:420:56:44

and that all training sites are now inspected by Ofsted

0:56:440:56:48

and are rated either good or excellent.

0:56:480:56:50

In the space of seven years, four young people died at Deepcut...

0:56:590:57:03

..but we cannot know the full extent of bullying

0:57:080:57:10

and sexual assault at the base or other Army facilities.

0:57:100:57:14

I just don't want it to happen to any other young people.

0:57:210:57:25

You know, because I'm a mother myself now.

0:57:250:57:27

I just feel like, if I don't tell everything that went on there,

0:57:290:57:32

it's just going to go on and on and on, you know?

0:57:320:57:36

And I've got to the age, now, where I just want a normal life, you know?

0:57:360:57:40

I don't want to keep reliving it.

0:57:400:57:41

Something has to be done, that a camp was allowed to descend into

0:57:460:57:52

a culture where these things could occur -

0:57:520:57:54

not just the deaths, but...

0:57:540:57:58

a culture where so many of these very serious allegations

0:57:580:58:03

have been brought to light.

0:58:030:58:04

I'm sure there are lots of decent, good people in the Army,

0:58:070:58:12

who would want to have this, you know, sorted because...

0:58:120:58:16

..it's like a bad apple - it really can't be left.

0:58:180:58:21

It's a sentiment echoed by the survivors.

0:58:250:58:27

People should be held to account

0:58:300:58:33

and if by me doing this...

0:58:330:58:36

..which was a big step for me to take,

0:58:370:58:40

and I haven't taken it lightly...

0:58:400:58:43

this...I'm hoping that the powers that be...

0:58:430:58:47

..decide that there needs to be a public enquiry

0:58:490:58:52

into the establishment of Deepcut Army barracks...

0:58:520:58:56

..because there was a lot more gone on there than people know about.

0:58:570:59:01

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