
Browse content similar to Deepcut: The Army's Shame. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
| Line | From | To | |
|---|---|---|---|
How would you describe Deepcut as a camp? | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
Dreadful. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
Discipline was just slowly deteriorating. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
What we were expecting was to be treated like proper soldiers, | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
but we were treat like shit... | 0:00:27 | 0:00:29 | |
from day one. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:31 | |
In the 1990s, thousands of young people came to Deepcut | 0:00:33 | 0:00:37 | |
to learn to be soldiers. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:39 | |
Four of them would die here in mysterious circumstances. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
Today, a coroner said one, Cheryl James, had taken her own life. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
We know her means of death, obviously, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
but those last few minutes leading up to it, | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
I think, you know, for the rest of our lives, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
there will always be a question mark about that. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
After 20 years, | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
recruits are speaking out about a culture of bullying and abuse. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:13 | |
I felt the one hit... | 0:01:15 | 0:01:17 | |
AGONISED YELL | 0:01:17 | 0:01:18 | |
..and broke my fingers. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
And that's the last I remember, really, of that. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
He came up to me and whispered in my ear, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:32 | |
"I'm going to kill you if you say anything." | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
I thought, "I'm going to die. I'm going to die." | 0:01:36 | 0:01:38 | |
Because that's what he said he was going to do. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:42 | |
For the first time, | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
some of them break their silence about sexual abuse. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:47 | |
-TEARFULLY: -And somebody forced themselves onto me. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:51 | |
I was trying to tell him to stop, but I couldn't | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
because I was just held down. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:56 | |
I used to watch an advert called "Frank". | 0:02:11 | 0:02:14 | |
It was a mind-blowing video - the dramatics, the sound effects. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
I wanted to give something to the country, I wanted to be | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
proud of the country, I wanted people to be proud of me as well. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
I want to be that guy on the telly. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:41 | |
I want to be that guy on the video. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
-VOICE-OVER: -If you want a job with a bit more adventure and excitement, to be Frank, join the army. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
In 1995, the new recruits were told to report to | 0:02:52 | 0:02:56 | |
Pirbright training centre in Surrey... | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
..next-door to the sprawling Deepcut army base. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:03 | |
Here, the mainly teenage recruits would spend their first ten weeks. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
They'd learn the basics of army life. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:14 | |
I was...scared, | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
but excited. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:23 | |
I think, for me, it was quite shocking. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
Just it's the first time away from home for any length of time. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
I remember standing there with my bag, thinking, | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
"Have I got enough socks and underpants? | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
"And who's going to do my washing?" | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
It was just like, "Wow, I'm here! | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
"It's just amazing! I'm going to start making friends." | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
And that was the start of the whole journey | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
of me being in the British Army. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
And then, I remember they would say, "The fun starts tomorrow. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:05 | |
"Get a good night's sleep, get yourself unpacked." | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
And it was almost a false sense of security because they were | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
so overwhelmingly nice that you thought, "This isn't too bad." | 0:04:11 | 0:04:16 | |
MILITARY HORN PLAYS | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
-Who can remember what time you were told? -Seven o'clock, Sergeant. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:28 | |
You are already late for day one. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:31 | |
-YELLS: -Do you understand?! -ALL: -Yes, Sergeant! | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
This 1990s footage shows basic training | 0:04:36 | 0:04:40 | |
at another army base, Winchester. | 0:04:40 | 0:04:43 | |
SERGEANTS YELLING | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
The British Army has always instilled strict discipline | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
into its recruits. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:51 | |
-Go! -Get a move on! | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
What was the regime like? | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
Um, very strict. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
Very, very strict. You did what you were told. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
If you start fucking fumbling about, | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
he will stand there all day and keep asking you more and more questions. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
You had to make sure that your locker was clean and tidy, | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
your bed was made properly with your hospital corners... | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
Unlock your lockers. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
If everything wasn't up to scratch, then you'd get things flung | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
out of your locker, your bed unmade and sheets chucked on the floor. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:23 | |
If somebody had let the team down then there would be hell to pay. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
The usual kind of thing, really, | 0:05:27 | 0:05:29 | |
that you'd expect from joining the army. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
-Get a move on! -All right, what's this fucking orange stuff inside here? | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
What is it? | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
Rust! What's rust doing on it? | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Corporals and sergeants were the instructors who led the training. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
Rust! It's more rust! | 0:05:43 | 0:05:45 | |
So out of ten weapons, I've now got six that work! | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
The instructors at Pirbright, | 0:05:48 | 0:05:50 | |
they're the ones that'll turn you from a civilian to a soldier. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
-Move! -Clear out, get down! | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
They're pushing you to your limits, | 0:06:02 | 0:06:03 | |
they're screaming at you, they're shouting at you. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:06 | |
Basically, they're just making your life hell while you're there. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
Prepare to move! Go! | 0:06:09 | 0:06:10 | |
Instructors at Pirbright were fantastic. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
They were very hard, but fair. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Get changed, now! Let's go! | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
I can remember every day perfect. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
And now, looking back, it was good fun. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:25 | |
It was hard at the time, but good fun. | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
However, that wasn't everyone's experience. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
GUNFIRE | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
We had to make a shell scrape, | 0:06:39 | 0:06:40 | |
which is basically a shallow trench... | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
..and ours wasn't done deep enough. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:49 | |
It was...lopsided, basically. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
The corporals stood around and basically shouted at us, | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
said it wasn't good enough and turned around and said, | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
"Shaw, lay in there!" So I laid in there. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
Next thing I know, they all jumped in on top of me...like a bundle. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:08 | |
One of the instructors landed feet first on to Danny Shaw's back, | 0:07:10 | 0:07:15 | |
causing a hairline fracture. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
It was really, really, really, really painful. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
You know, it was like someone had grabbed hold of my spine | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
and pulled it out - that's how it felt. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:27 | |
I was upset. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:29 | |
I was trying not to cry, basically. You know? | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
You're in that environment now, you're a soldier. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
You don't cry, you don't cry. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:37 | |
I was the only black female within the troop. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:47 | |
In fact, I was the only black female in the whole squadron. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
Go, go, go, go! Go! Come on! | 0:07:53 | 0:07:55 | |
Dawn says she was targeted from the outset. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
GUNFIRE | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
I'd gone to collect my shells from the bullets. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
I was told by a lieutenant who had eaten a banana to take | 0:08:03 | 0:08:09 | |
the banana peel and to place it in my pouch, "You monkey." | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
I then took the banana peel and placed it in my pouch. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:18 | |
I was quite weary. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
Um... | 0:08:26 | 0:08:27 | |
Confused. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:31 | |
Um... | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
But I didn't want to give up. I didn't. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:36 | |
It didn't stop from there, really, from Pirbright. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
It carried on from Pirbright to Deepcut, to my unit, | 0:08:47 | 0:08:53 | |
which was the worst time of my... | 0:08:53 | 0:08:57 | |
Gosh... | 0:08:58 | 0:09:00 | |
Yeah. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:04 | |
Um, it didn't stop then. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
The word that they used to use was "nigger" - | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
that was the word. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:19 | |
And it was a word that they all used - "Nigger, nigger" - | 0:09:19 | 0:09:24 | |
and I just didn't understand why that would be a word | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
that the British Army would use. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
They'd made it through their ten weeks basic training. | 0:09:37 | 0:09:40 | |
The recruits were now soldiers. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
From Pirbright it was a short move to | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
the next-door barracks known as Deepcut. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
Here, as members of the Royal Logistic Corps, | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
they'd undertake specialist training. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
It got built up to be a place which was full of opportunity | 0:10:02 | 0:10:08 | |
and...a proud place to be. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:12 | |
But once we got there, it was a very different story. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
A place where fear was instilled from the very moment | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
you walked through the gate. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
What we were expecting was to be treated like proper soldiers, | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
to be given the respect that we thought we'd earned | 0:10:31 | 0:10:34 | |
during that ten weeks... | 0:10:34 | 0:10:35 | |
..but we weren't. It was the total opposite. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
It was ten times worse than the basic training. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
We were basically treat like shit... | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
from day one. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
They did single out a few women, and a few boys as well, | 0:10:56 | 0:11:02 | |
that they didn't like. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
There was one quite big incident, where a girl was pulled out | 0:11:11 | 0:11:15 | |
of the parade because she had some hairs on her upper lip | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
and under her jawline. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
They humiliated her in front of everybody | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
and made her stand there and have a shave. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
Julia Bolton was one of the few female non-commissioned officers, or NCOs. | 0:11:36 | 0:11:42 | |
She'd been to Deepcut eight years earlier | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
and was shocked at what she now found there. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
-How would you describe Deepcut as a camp? -Um... | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
Dreadful. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:58 | |
It wasn't a happy place. | 0:11:58 | 0:11:59 | |
Discipline was just slowly... | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
..deteriorating, I would say. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
Not just between the NCOs, but with the recruits as well. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
-Was it out of control? -I would say so, yes. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:15 | |
There was a lot of bullying by instructors, that was obvious. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
Some of the instructors were thugs, | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
in particular, Sergeant Gavigan. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
Sergeant Gavigan? He was a brute. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
He had a split personality. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
You heard him before you saw Sergeant Gavigan. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
If you saw him coming, you walked the other way. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
Some trainees described Sergeant Andrew Gavigan as a role model. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:59 | |
His superiors also praised him for his compassion | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
and concern for young soldiers. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
But those who got on the wrong side of him tell a different story. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
There was an incident where Sergeant Gavigan and a female Lance Corporal... | 0:13:12 | 0:13:20 | |
And because I was friends with the female corporal, | 0:13:20 | 0:13:26 | |
Sergeant Gavigan didn't like that. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
Dawn had offered to give evidence to support a complaint | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
the Lance Corporal was making against Sergeant Gavigan. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
And because I stuck up for the Lance Corporal, because we were friends, | 0:13:38 | 0:13:43 | |
he came up to me and whispered in my ear, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
"I'm going to kill you... | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
"if you say anything." | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
At that particular point... | 0:13:56 | 0:13:58 | |
..I became frightened, scared. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:04 | |
I thought, "I'm going to die. I'm going to die." | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
Because that's what he said that he was going to do. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
Andrew Gavigan says he has no recollection of Dawn Benjamin | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
or this incident. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:18 | |
When he was trying to impose discipline, | 0:14:23 | 0:14:25 | |
Sergeant Gavigan would sometimes tell trainees | 0:14:25 | 0:14:28 | |
they were about to get a visit from his twin brother. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:32 | |
Who I actually thought was another person | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
because he changed in a split second. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
He would go into the building, come back out | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
seconds later, absolutely red-faced, shouting, screaming, spitting. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:48 | |
He scared the shite out of me. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
YELLING | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
When we were on a basic fitness test doing the mile run, he was in front | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
with one of the female recruits and he was really encouraging her. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
I thought, "That's really good." You know, good example. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
And he kept encouraging and encouraging her, | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
and then suddenly he just stopped and snapped, and the picture I have | 0:15:14 | 0:15:19 | |
in my mind is he didn't physically touch her, but he just | 0:15:19 | 0:15:24 | |
went for her verbally and it looked as though he went purple with rage. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:29 | |
And then he just stopped, and ran off and left her. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
When I went back to the squadron, I just mentioned this | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
in the troop office and they just laughed and said, | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
"Oh, now you've met his twin brother!" | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
I didn't want to see it again and I didn't want it to happen to me. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
Sergeant Gavigan wasn't the only individual feared by some trainees. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:58 | |
There was a wider culture of brutality at the base. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:02 | |
This is Sean Benton, filmed passing out from basic training. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:12 | |
Nine months later, he was found dead. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
I went through training with Sean, me and Sean passed out together. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
Sean Benton was from the seaside town of Hastings in East Sussex. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
Determined to avoid a dead-end job, he joined the army at 19, | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
hoping to be a driver. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:34 | |
We were both in and out of trouble | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
and we just seemed to be drawn together. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
There was always a little bit of a swagger. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
He'd always have this... I can still see him now | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
with a smirk on his face, as he had to get the last word in, | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
even if it had got him into trouble. | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
More than once, Sean was punished for indiscipline... | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
..and he seemed to become a target. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
I remember him telling me | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
that people had come into his room wearing respirators... | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
With a respirator, you can't see who's wearing it. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
..and attacked him, basically, not bullied him. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
Attacked him. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
Beat him. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:35 | |
How can you report something like that? | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
For all you know, the person you report it to could have been | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
one of the persons in the room wearing the mask. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
It's... | 0:17:45 | 0:17:46 | |
..scary to think that that could be the case. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
Sean told his friends about other violent incidents, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
including being forced through a first-floor window. | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
It really got to Sean. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:04 | |
He changed in the short time over at Deepcut | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
to what he was at Pirbright. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
He'd still try and have the last word, but... | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
He wasn't as bubbly as what he was. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
Sorry. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:26 | |
Sean Benton wasn't the only recruit to say he suffered physical abuse. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
Dan Griffiths said he was the victim of an attack by an instructor. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:47 | |
He just came straight towards me. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
He then... He didn't push me over with his hands, | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
he just pushed me over with his body. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:02 | |
You could see that he was angry and we didn't know why. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
He then stormed back out. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
30 seconds or so later, he came back in with a broom handle. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
AGONISED YELL | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
I felt the one hit and broke my fingers. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
And then he swung against my head, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
and that's the last I remember really of that. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
Dan Griffiths lost consciousness, but he says the attack continued. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:34 | |
I then learned that he'd gone into the broom cupboard, | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
and got the other half of the broom handle and come back in, | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
and then carried on whilst I was unconscious. He just beat me. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:47 | |
I remember walking to the medical centre in a lot, a lot of pain. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
It hurt. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
I remember not having the confidence to say what had actually gone on, | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
so I just said that I fell down the stairs. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
After six months, | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
recruits were committed to at least four years of army life. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:21 | |
They couldn't leave Deepcut without permission and many say | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
there was no-one in authority they could go to with their problems. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:29 | |
Under intense pressure, some contemplated suicide. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
I was getting bullied. It was getting too much for me. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
I ended up having a knife, I would take myself to the toilet... | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
In my mind, I wanted to just end it all. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
I just broke down crying. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
And I think the person that actually talked me out of it | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
actually heard me crying. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
Because he said, "Who's that in there? Are you all right? | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
"What's going on?" | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
All I remember is trying to distract him... | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
..trying to just get through to him on some level, | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
just to take his mind away from the place that he was in at the time. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
He was saying, "It's not worth it, think of your family. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
"Think of your friends." | 0:21:36 | 0:21:38 | |
And... | 0:21:38 | 0:21:40 | |
I think that's what made me realise, you know, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
maybe it's not worth doing it. | 0:21:44 | 0:21:45 | |
Were you surprised to find somebody in that state? | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
Surprised? | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
Looking back, I'd probably say no | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
because of the pressure that we were put under. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
By June 1995, Sean Benton was on the verge of being | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
kicked out of the army. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
He felt a failure and was desperate | 0:22:26 | 0:22:28 | |
to see the military chaplain, the padre. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:31 | |
When Sean asked to go and see the padre, he was refused to leave camp, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:40 | |
because the Garrison Church is just off camp. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
So if you want to leave Deepcut camp, | 0:22:43 | 0:22:45 | |
you had to go and ask permission. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
And when he did that, he was told, "No, he's not allowed." | 0:22:47 | 0:22:50 | |
He wasn't who I had finished training with, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
he wasn't the same person. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
He was down. | 0:22:58 | 0:22:59 | |
In the early morning of June the 9th, 1995, | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
Sean Benton was found dead, with five gunshot wounds to his body. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
I wasn't allowed to go to the funeral. | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
As a friend, it was horrible. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
A short inquest and an army inquiry concluded Sean had killed himself. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:29 | |
There was no investigation as to why he might have done this. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:32 | |
We weren't allowed to speak to anybody about it. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
We weren't even allowed to discuss it in phone calls home. | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
It was as if they were trying to control everything from the inside. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
In the spring of 1995, | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
a new batch of recruits had begun their training, | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
many with the same high hopes of an army life. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
Amongst them was Cheryl James. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
Even when she was getting told off, she always smiled. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
Most of the time it broke up that episode, whatever was happening. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
It brought out the light and people stopped, and it was nice. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:38 | |
And that's how I remember Cheryl now, just always laughing, | 0:24:38 | 0:24:41 | |
always happy. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
Keep going! | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
Jog right down to the end. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:47 | |
I met Cheryl James at Pirbright. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:51 | |
She's got that very infectious smile, | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
which is evident straight away. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
She was just a very, very bubbly girl, right from the word go. | 0:24:56 | 0:25:00 | |
She was proud and I was proud of her, | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
and she looked very, very smart. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
There wasn't a hair out of place. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
It was as if to say, "Look at me, mum." | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
She could have been the poster girl for the army. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
They were all sent off to their different camps and things, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
and I can remember thinking they were just youngsters, children, really. | 0:25:24 | 0:25:28 | |
And what sort of a soldier was Cheryl? | 0:25:31 | 0:25:34 | |
She was great. She was kind of the glue of our troop, really. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
-SOLDIERS: -Lift up, 2-3-4-5, down, swing! | 0:25:39 | 0:25:43 | |
We spent all our time together and we had some really honest chats... | 0:25:43 | 0:25:48 | |
..and we just really bonded. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:54 | |
On the 27th of November, 1995, | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
just over a month after her 18th birthday, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
Cheryl was on routine duties at the base. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:13 | |
Monday morning, we were both on guard duty. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
I was on the front gate, she was on the rear gate, | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
so we had to report to the guardroom at 6.30. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
She was her usual bubbly self. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
We were actually stood outside the guardroom chatting | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
for a while, just laughing, | 0:26:31 | 0:26:32 | |
until one of the sergeants tapped on the glass | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
and said, "Oi, get a move on." | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
I was there as soon as the gate that Cheryl was guarding was open. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:46 | |
I spoke to her for a few minutes. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
She seemed quite happy. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
And then she said to me that she was going | 0:26:51 | 0:26:54 | |
to see her boyfriend the following weekend... | 0:26:54 | 0:26:57 | |
..and then was about it and I left. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
I got to about the top of the hill, away from the gate. | 0:27:06 | 0:27:10 | |
GUNSHOT | 0:27:12 | 0:27:14 | |
I heard one single gunshot. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
It was close by. It was unusual to hear just one shot. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
A few minutes later, the gate was reported unattended | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
and a Lance Corporal went to investigate. | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
He saw a camouflage jacket on the ground by some trees. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
It was Cheryl's body. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:43 | |
She'd died from a single bullet wound to her head. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:48 | |
The doorbell rang and there was a police officer | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
and an army officer, both in uniform, standing at the front door. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:13 | |
It's a horrible, horrible feeling. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
You're not even part of the universe. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
It's just... Everything's swirling around | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
and you can't... It's intangible. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
You can't... Nothing is real. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
So many questions and nobody there to answer them. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
The policeman went. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:44 | |
-This was a temporary... What sort of army officer was he? -A local. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:50 | |
Yes, he was just in the sort of... | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
He'd just been asked to come to the house. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
-There was nobody from the camp... -Nobody from the camp or anybody that... | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
..either visited or telephoned. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
-There was no contact from the camp. -Nothing at all. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:06 | |
It was all done by the guy who knew nothing, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
other than she'd taken her own life. | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
The army decided that Cheryl had killed herself... | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
..but an inquest recorded an open verdict, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
which raised questions over whether it was a suicide. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
My question all these years has been, | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
if they investigated it as a suicide, doesn't that beg | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
the question that the evidence must have been overflowing? | 0:29:35 | 0:29:41 | |
Clearly. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:42 | |
But...there wasn't any. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:44 | |
And all of those things became questions that just burned | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
away then, for years and years. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
Cheryl James and Sean Benton's deaths seemed destined | 0:30:00 | 0:30:04 | |
never to be properly investigated. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
But seven years on, that changed. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
Two more young soldiers, Geoff Gray and James Collinson, | 0:30:26 | 0:30:31 | |
had apparently killed themselves at Deepcut. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:33 | |
The BBC programme Frontline Scotland | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
linked the deaths for the first time. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
'Tonight, we investigate disturbing claims about the climate | 0:30:46 | 0:30:51 | |
'of fear and intimidation at Deepcut.' | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
It aired the families' questions about why their children had died. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:09 | |
I hold the army totally responsible for Geoff's death. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:17 | |
The army owed Geoff a duty of care | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
and they failed in that duty of care. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
We looked after him 17 years...safely. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:28 | |
The army had him for seven months... | 0:31:29 | 0:31:32 | |
..and he was dead. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:36 | |
The four families were brought together for the first time. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
There's Sean Benton - | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
he was found shot... | 0:31:49 | 0:31:51 | |
..with five bullets to the chest. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
My daughter Cheryl died at the same camp in November 1995. | 0:31:54 | 0:32:00 | |
When we first got together, | 0:32:02 | 0:32:04 | |
we clearly had this common bond that all the families had experienced. | 0:32:04 | 0:32:10 | |
And of course... | 0:32:10 | 0:32:13 | |
the context had now become not two deaths 19 weeks apart, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:17 | |
but four deaths and some of them almost seven years apart. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:22 | |
The families believed the army and the police | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
had failed to investigate the deaths properly. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
The parents were questioning whether they really were suicides. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:42 | |
For the army to turn around and say suicide and expect us | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
to accept it, they're not on. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
I mean, we'll go to the ends of the earth to find out | 0:32:50 | 0:32:52 | |
what happened to these kids. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:53 | |
Now under pressure from the families and the media, | 0:32:58 | 0:33:01 | |
Surrey Police began looking at all the Deepcut deaths. | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
We have absolutely no intention of rushing the investigation. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
We'll be as thorough as we possibly can | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
and it will conclude as and when we feel that we've satisfactorily | 0:33:14 | 0:33:18 | |
gathered as much evidence as is available to us. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
Cheryl's family still believe there was a possibility that she | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
hadn't killed herself, | 0:33:28 | 0:33:30 | |
but they felt the new police inquiry wasn't open to that. | 0:33:30 | 0:33:34 | |
Officers were asking witnesses in the early days of their | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
investigation, "Why do you think Cheryl James took her own life?" | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
That was the first question. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
And no-one will ever convince me that investigation | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
was open-minded, ever. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:49 | |
One of the senior officers involved | 0:33:52 | 0:33:55 | |
in the reopened investigations agrees. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:58 | |
I was staggered, I was appalled, | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
because, to paraphrase it, the tenor of the report, to me, | 0:34:01 | 0:34:07 | |
was, "We know these were suicides, | 0:34:07 | 0:34:09 | |
"will you just get on and prove it, please?" | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
Surrey Police strongly deny they had a closed mind-set. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
After an 18-month investigation, they said there was no | 0:34:22 | 0:34:25 | |
evidence of anyone else being involved in the deaths. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:28 | |
Then details of statements were leaked. | 0:34:33 | 0:34:36 | |
The Deepcut culture became part of a review by a senior lawyer. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
A report into the deaths of four young soldiers has highlighted abuse | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
and institutional failures at the Deepcut army barracks. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
Nicholas Blake QC recommended independent scrutiny of army life. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:04 | |
An armed forces ombudsman should be appointed... | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
..independent, that is to say, of the military units. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:14 | |
The report also criticised a culture of bullying at Deepcut, | 0:35:15 | 0:35:19 | |
but stopped short of saying it had played a part in any of the deaths. | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
It fuelled the families' demands for a public inquiry. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:29 | |
There's never been a meaningful inquiry into all of those allegations. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
There's never been a meaningful inquiry regarding | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
the culture of the camp. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:42 | |
How did it happen? | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
When did it happen? How long did it last? | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
None of that's been answered. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
Clearly, nobody has been made accountable for the culture | 0:35:49 | 0:35:54 | |
that pervaded that camp and was allowed to pervade the camp. | 0:35:54 | 0:35:59 | |
There's not been one person. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:01 | |
For Cheryl James's family, | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
all that was left was to campaign for a fresh inquest. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
In February this year, that finally began. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:21 | |
What the family wanted was a public examination of all | 0:36:21 | 0:36:24 | |
the evidence and a verdict that they could have confidence in. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
We felt that the only thing we could do was gather all the evidence | 0:36:29 | 0:36:35 | |
that was out there and it is some consolation, | 0:36:35 | 0:36:38 | |
that at the end of the process, you can say to yourself, | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
"Well, you know, we've done everything we possibly could." | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
The inquest focused on Cheryl's state of mind before her death. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
The court heard she'd been trying to choose between | 0:36:54 | 0:36:56 | |
two soldier boyfriends and that other trainees had been critical | 0:36:56 | 0:37:00 | |
over the way she was treating the two men. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
It also looked at whether bullying was a factor in her death. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
Dan Griffiths gave evidence about something he says | 0:37:15 | 0:37:18 | |
he witnessed some time before Cheryl died. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
I saw Cheryl one night, as I came from the NAAFI. | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
ANGRY SHOUTING | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
I heard a lot of shouting and I thought, "That's a bit strange." | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
This is at night-time. | 0:37:39 | 0:37:40 | |
It was very close, but very loud. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
And so I popped my head round to see what was going on. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:49 | |
Straightaway, I knew I shouldn't have been there. | 0:37:49 | 0:37:51 | |
It was... Sergeant Gavigan was shouting at Cheryl. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
She looked very scared. She had her back up against the wall. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
He was only a couple of feet from her, | 0:38:02 | 0:38:04 | |
he was shouting at her very loud. She was very upset, she was crying. | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
I decided to wait there for Cheryl. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:15 | |
And when she came back round the corner, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:23 | |
I just mentioned, "What was all that about?" | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
Straightaway, she said to me, "You're better off not knowing." | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
At the inquest, Sergeant Gavigan | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
was asked about his relationship with Cheryl James. | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
He denied knowing her, or that he'd reduced her to tears. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
He was also questioned about his behaviour more generally. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:56 | |
Were you aware that many of the recruits were petrified of you? | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
No. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:02 | |
There was two sides of me. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
There was my natural side - my caring, my supportive side - | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
and that's how I'd always, throughout my army career, | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
managed and led people. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:13 | |
Sergeant Gavigan denies that he abused or mistreated trainees. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
He says he only needed to shout at them sometimes | 0:39:19 | 0:39:21 | |
because there was only one of him and up to 300 of them. | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
So, at times, I would have to be verbal | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
and I would have to conduct myself in a way that was | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
different from how I would like to have conducted myself. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
The allegations against Sergeant Gavigan only relate to bullying. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:39 | |
Cheryl's family also wanted the inquest to investigate | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
whether there was sexual abuse. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:47 | |
Jane Warboys gave evidence about something that happened | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
to Cheryl while she was on a driving course. | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
I could see straightaway that there was something wrong with her. | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
She was visibly shaken and upset even then. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
It was just this one sergeant who locked her in the office | 0:40:04 | 0:40:10 | |
and I think he wanted to have sex with her, | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
and she was describing a situation | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
where she was running around the desk to get away from him. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
The inquest heard from over 100 witnesses. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
Crucially for the James family, | 0:40:28 | 0:40:30 | |
other soldiers' evidence their lawyer wanted to introduce, | 0:40:30 | 0:40:33 | |
including allegations of rape, was excluded. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:37 | |
The coroner said it wasn't a public inquiry. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
We made submissions to the coroner | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
because there were some concerns that there were patterns | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
of behaviour, or other incidents described, | 0:40:46 | 0:40:48 | |
which could be relevant to issues affecting Cheryl | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
and, unfortunately, the coroner decided that that was not | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
going to be a suitable subject for his investigation. | 0:40:54 | 0:40:58 | |
But now soldiers have come forward to speak | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
publicly for the first time about what they suffered. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
Alison was 17 when she joined up. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
She's asked us to conceal her identity. | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
She says that, during basic training, | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
non-commissioned officers, NCOs, | 0:41:25 | 0:41:27 | |
bragged to her about sleeping with trainees. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
The NCOs that were there at the time, I mean, | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
they were quite predatory in their pursuit of young recruits. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
I was told, at my passing out parade, | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
two of the NSC told me | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
that I'd be having sex with them in my formal dresswear...on that day. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:51 | |
It was... | 0:41:53 | 0:41:54 | |
..apparently more special because I was a virgin | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
and it was a bit of a challenge. | 0:41:59 | 0:42:02 | |
For some instructors, it was more than just talk. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
They were prepared to force themselves on unwilling victims. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:16 | |
Alison was escorted to a superior's office, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
where she says she was, in effect, blackmailed. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
They knew that I'd started a relationship with | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
a girl in my troop. | 0:42:28 | 0:42:30 | |
I was just taken down to his room. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
He explained as well the fact that | 0:42:36 | 0:42:38 | |
if I didn't go through with what was going to happen in the room | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
then the girl that I'd started the relationship with, | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
she wouldn't pass out and neither would I. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
Can you just explain what he did do? | 0:42:51 | 0:42:53 | |
He... | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
fingered me. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:57 | |
-He put his fingers inside you? -Mm-hm. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
And then he told me he'd been waiting for that for a long time. | 0:43:02 | 0:43:06 | |
-Did you...ever think, "I've got to tell somebody about this"? -No. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
No, I did not. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:16 | |
And why was that? | 0:43:16 | 0:43:18 | |
Because who would listen? | 0:43:18 | 0:43:19 | |
This wasn't an isolated incident. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:28 | |
Gillian was another teenage recruit. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
We've disguised her appearance. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
I was just... Just turned 17 the November before... | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
..and I was quite shy and quite sexually inexperienced. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:49 | |
The day of the passing out parade was exciting. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
I was really proud that I'd finished my training. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:08 | |
My sisters and my parents were going to be there to watch me. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:13 | |
Everybody was excited. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:15 | |
A corporal who was one of my instructors asked me | 0:44:18 | 0:44:21 | |
to go back to the female accommodation, | 0:44:21 | 0:44:24 | |
so I went back and walked into the female room. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
And he wasn't there. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:31 | |
And he called me from the shower room... | 0:44:33 | 0:44:35 | |
..and so I went into the shower room. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:38 | |
And he pushed me up against the wall... | 0:44:45 | 0:44:47 | |
..and he started kissing me. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:51 | |
And then he put his hand up my skirt, | 0:44:52 | 0:44:55 | |
and into my tights and into my knickers, | 0:44:55 | 0:44:58 | |
and he put his fingers inside me. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
And with his other hand, | 0:45:02 | 0:45:03 | |
started fondling my breasts through my shirt. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
-Did you attempt to fight him off? -No. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
One thing I'd learnt from training was that you don't talk back | 0:45:13 | 0:45:16 | |
to your NCOs... | 0:45:16 | 0:45:18 | |
..and you don't fight back. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:20 | |
The next thing I can remember is going back to see my parents... | 0:45:25 | 0:45:29 | |
..and everyone asking me where I'd been... | 0:45:30 | 0:45:32 | |
..and I told them I'd just been to collect my bags. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
Halt! | 0:45:39 | 0:45:40 | |
The inquest didn't examine evidence of sexual assaults on young soldiers. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:54 | |
However, it did look at problems in the Deepcut chain of command - | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
this included sexual misconduct by a senior figure at the base. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:05 | |
This is Stephen Buchanan. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
In 1995, he held one of the most important posts at Deepcut - | 0:46:10 | 0:46:14 | |
he was the Regimental Sergeant Major. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:16 | |
There was talk about... | 0:46:19 | 0:46:21 | |
..girls going up to Sergeant Major Buchanan's | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
room in the Sergeants' mess | 0:46:28 | 0:46:30 | |
and inappropriate behaviour at various dos. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:35 | |
There was definite feeling that he was over-stepping the mark | 0:46:35 | 0:46:39 | |
with his authority. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:41 | |
In the summer of 1995, | 0:46:45 | 0:46:47 | |
Sergeant Major Buchanan had drunken sex with a female private. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:52 | |
He would later claim he didn't know she was a soldier. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
Rumours began to circulate and, by the Autumn, he'd lost | 0:46:56 | 0:46:58 | |
his commanders' confidence and was transferred to Catterick Garrison. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:03 | |
It's now emerged there were also question marks over | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
the calibre of some of Deepcut's other non-commissioned officers. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
A lot of them were actually put there | 0:47:17 | 0:47:21 | |
because no-one else wanted them. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:22 | |
It sort of had a bit of a reputation of being a dumping ground to | 0:47:22 | 0:47:25 | |
get rid of unwanted NCOs. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:27 | |
In 1996, a new senior instructor, Leslie Skinner, arrived at Deepcut. | 0:47:32 | 0:47:37 | |
We were introduced to him as "Staff Skinner." | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
We were to address him as Staff Skinner. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:44 | |
He seemed a plausible guy, nice guy, full of stories, | 0:47:44 | 0:47:48 | |
and we thought he was just one of the lads. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:50 | |
In fact, Leslie Skinner wasn't a staff sergeant. | 0:47:52 | 0:47:55 | |
Two months earlier, he'd been court-marshalled for indecently | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
exposing himself to a teenager while serving in Northern Ireland. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:02 | |
He'd been demoted to the rank of private. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:07 | |
He'd often turn up, sit and have a drink with us, | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
which was fine, he'd have a laugh. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
We didn't think anything unusual of him. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:16 | |
One evening just before Christmas, | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
Mark Harrison was alone in his room. | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
Skinner came in. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:32 | |
I thought he was just coming in to have a chat and stuff. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:36 | |
Then he just, out of the blue, out of nowhere, he just pounced on me. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
He grabbed me by the back of my neck and | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
...was trying to kiss me, basically. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:47 | |
I tried to pull away, but he just held me harder | 0:48:49 | 0:48:52 | |
and...you know, quite, it was hurting quite a bit. | 0:48:52 | 0:48:57 | |
Erm... | 0:48:57 | 0:48:59 | |
And I was shaking at this point. I didn't know what to do. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:03 | |
You know, there's this guy in my room doing this. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
You know, what was I to do? | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
You know, I didn't know whether to hit him and run or what. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:12 | |
There was all sorts going through my mind. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
He told me to get dressed | 0:49:17 | 0:49:19 | |
and that we were to go to his room at the other side of the camp... | 0:49:19 | 0:49:25 | |
..which I felt might have been a bit of an escape route | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
because I thought, well, hopefully, I might see somebody on the way. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
But that didn't happen, unfortunately, | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
and... | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
That's when we...we went up to his room. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:51 | |
And...that's where he abused me. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
What did he do to you? | 0:50:03 | 0:50:04 | |
Erm... | 0:50:08 | 0:50:09 | |
Well, he... | 0:50:19 | 0:50:20 | |
-It's hard saying this on camera, isn't it? -Did he rape you? | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
Yeah. Yeah. | 0:50:29 | 0:50:30 | |
What happened after that? | 0:50:36 | 0:50:39 | |
He told me to get out. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:40 | |
And... | 0:50:45 | 0:50:46 | |
..I just grabbed all my stuff and ran. | 0:50:48 | 0:50:50 | |
Erm... | 0:50:51 | 0:50:52 | |
Basically, just got in the shower for a couple of hours. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:57 | |
And I couldn't think of a way out... | 0:51:01 | 0:51:03 | |
..so I decided to... | 0:51:05 | 0:51:06 | |
..carry on - go and do my guard shift... | 0:51:08 | 0:51:09 | |
..the next morning. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:12 | |
And... | 0:51:14 | 0:51:15 | |
..but that's when it happened again, the following night. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:19 | |
I didn't tell anybody. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:25 | |
I didn't trust anyone in authority. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:29 | |
It were just easier to brush it under the carpet, | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
for me, and carry on. | 0:51:34 | 0:51:35 | |
Subconsciously, you...you destroy yourself inside. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
And, ultimately, it led to me... | 0:51:45 | 0:51:47 | |
..trying to take my own life. | 0:51:49 | 0:51:51 | |
You know, it wasn't a cry for help, you know? I didn't... | 0:51:51 | 0:51:53 | |
I didn't want to be here. | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
I couldn't live with... | 0:51:55 | 0:51:57 | |
with what he'd done to me. | 0:51:57 | 0:51:59 | |
How do you feel now, 20 years on? | 0:51:59 | 0:52:00 | |
I'm furious with the...with the Army. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:05 | |
You know, he didn't start this at Deepcut. | 0:52:06 | 0:52:09 | |
To be put into an environment with vulnerable... | 0:52:09 | 0:52:13 | |
..kids, basically... | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
to, to do what he wanted. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
The powers that be knew... | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
and protected him, and that's what I'm very angry about. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
In 2004, Leslie Skinner was given four and a half years in prison | 0:52:32 | 0:52:37 | |
for sexually assaulting young soldiers. | 0:52:37 | 0:52:39 | |
A charge of rape was left to lie on file. | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
The Army has accepted that, at Deepcut, there was | 0:52:48 | 0:52:50 | |
a morally chaotic environment, | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
with an abuse and misuse of power. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:55 | |
Today, at the Cheryl James inquest, | 0:53:03 | 0:53:05 | |
the coroner ruled that it was Cheryl who inflicted the fatal shot | 0:53:05 | 0:53:09 | |
and that she had intended to die. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
He was critical of the regime at Deepcut | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
and the fact that Cheryl was placed on lone guard duty, | 0:53:15 | 0:53:18 | |
which was a breach of Army regulations. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:20 | |
He could find no evidence of any motive | 0:53:22 | 0:53:24 | |
as to why she might have killed herself. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
He ruled out sexual abuse in her case, | 0:53:28 | 0:53:30 | |
but he did focus on a "sexualised" atmosphere at Deepcut. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:34 | |
We've found that, in this sexualised atmosphere, | 0:53:40 | 0:53:43 | |
young soldiers were subjected to violent sexual assaults, | 0:53:43 | 0:53:46 | |
including rape. | 0:53:46 | 0:53:47 | |
Suzanne was another young woman | 0:53:51 | 0:53:52 | |
entrusted to the care of the British Army. | 0:53:52 | 0:53:55 | |
I switched the light off and I got into bed... | 0:53:58 | 0:54:01 | |
..and I was, like, half asleep. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:09 | |
Then the next thing... | 0:54:11 | 0:54:12 | |
I was getting held | 0:54:12 | 0:54:14 | |
and I felt something being put over me head... | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
and I couldn't breathe, and I started getting punched at first, | 0:54:18 | 0:54:22 | |
and I was getting held down. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:24 | |
-SOBBING: -There was more than one. I can't say whether there was... | 0:54:24 | 0:54:27 | |
I know there was definitely two. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:29 | |
And then I was... | 0:54:32 | 0:54:33 | |
forced on. | 0:54:33 | 0:54:35 | |
And it just seemed to last for ages and I couldn't breathe. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
I tried to fight at first, get them off me, but I couldn't... | 0:54:39 | 0:54:43 | |
..and it just seemed to last for ages... | 0:54:44 | 0:54:47 | |
..and I didn't want them to. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:52 | |
I was trying to tell them to stop, to stop, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:54 | |
but I couldn't cos I was just held down. | 0:54:54 | 0:54:56 | |
I didn't tell anyone - | 0:55:12 | 0:55:14 | |
I was too frightened to. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:16 | |
I was just scared cos I didn't know who it was, | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
and you couldn't talk to anyone. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:21 | |
I could've be going to tell somebody who'd been in that room. | 0:55:21 | 0:55:25 | |
I still haven't been able to talk about it for the last 20 years. | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
At Cheryl James' inquest, the Army finally apologised to her parents | 0:55:46 | 0:55:51 | |
for failures at the camp that could have contributed to her death. | 0:55:51 | 0:55:55 | |
Today, her family describe Deepcut | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
as having a toxic and horrible environment for a young woman. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:02 | |
I think there is still | 0:56:03 | 0:56:04 | |
an enormous problem with sexualised culture within the Army | 0:56:04 | 0:56:08 | |
and you don't just see that in these stories that come out of Deepcut. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:12 | |
You still hear those stories today. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
This sexualised culture remains an entrenched | 0:56:14 | 0:56:17 | |
and a very, very difficult problem for the Army. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
The Army says its culture is changing, | 0:56:21 | 0:56:24 | |
but admits there's still some way to go. | 0:56:24 | 0:56:26 | |
No Army spokesperson would appear in this programme. | 0:56:28 | 0:56:32 | |
However, in a statement, the Army said one of its highest priorities | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
was to treat all soldiers with respect. | 0:56:35 | 0:56:38 | |
It also says it's addressed many issues relating to | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
the welfare of recruits, | 0:56:42 | 0:56:44 | |
and that all training sites are now inspected by Ofsted | 0:56:44 | 0:56:48 | |
and are rated either good or excellent. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:50 | |
In the space of seven years, four young people died at Deepcut... | 0:56:59 | 0:57:03 | |
..but we cannot know the full extent of bullying | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
and sexual assault at the base or other Army facilities. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:14 | |
I just don't want it to happen to any other young people. | 0:57:21 | 0:57:25 | |
You know, because I'm a mother myself now. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
I just feel like, if I don't tell everything that went on there, | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
it's just going to go on and on and on, you know? | 0:57:32 | 0:57:36 | |
And I've got to the age, now, where I just want a normal life, you know? | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
I don't want to keep reliving it. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:41 | |
Something has to be done, that a camp was allowed to descend into | 0:57:46 | 0:57:52 | |
a culture where these things could occur - | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
not just the deaths, but... | 0:57:54 | 0:57:58 | |
a culture where so many of these very serious allegations | 0:57:58 | 0:58:03 | |
have been brought to light. | 0:58:03 | 0:58:04 | |
I'm sure there are lots of decent, good people in the Army, | 0:58:07 | 0:58:12 | |
who would want to have this, you know, sorted because... | 0:58:12 | 0:58:16 | |
..it's like a bad apple - it really can't be left. | 0:58:18 | 0:58:21 | |
It's a sentiment echoed by the survivors. | 0:58:25 | 0:58:27 | |
People should be held to account | 0:58:30 | 0:58:33 | |
and if by me doing this... | 0:58:33 | 0:58:36 | |
..which was a big step for me to take, | 0:58:37 | 0:58:40 | |
and I haven't taken it lightly... | 0:58:40 | 0:58:43 | |
this...I'm hoping that the powers that be... | 0:58:43 | 0:58:47 | |
..decide that there needs to be a public enquiry | 0:58:49 | 0:58:52 | |
into the establishment of Deepcut Army barracks... | 0:58:52 | 0:58:56 | |
..because there was a lot more gone on there than people know about. | 0:58:57 | 0:59:01 |