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This programme contains some strong language and scenes which some viewers may find upsetting | 0:00:02 | 0:00:10 | |
POLICE RADIO CHATTER | 0:00:10 | 0:00:11 | |
POLICE RADIO: '..post office at Ranmoor. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
'Could be armed robbers - repeat, could be armed, over. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
'..if you could investigate...' | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
BIRDSONG | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
You get up in the morning, | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
you come out, you know, after sort of the winter, | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
and you come out and it's lovely and sunny and just a little bit warm, | 0:01:52 | 0:01:55 | |
and you go, "Ahh." | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
It was a lovely day. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
Me dad's life was Liverpool and so it became to me, as well. | 0:02:00 | 0:02:03 | |
There was never any choice of being anybody else - | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
you were always going to be a Liverpool fan. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:07 | |
The FA Cup semifinal, still, at that point, meant something, | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
and winning an FA Cup semifinal, being at an FA Cup semifinal | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
was a very special event in any football fan's life. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
Not really done anything on my own. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:26 | |
I don't think I was a very... grown up 18-year-old. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:31 | |
We took her to the train and put her on the train... | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
and Richard was to meet her at the other end. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
We were going... going up after the game | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
and we were picking Stephanie up and driving her home, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
and we were going to have a picnic on the...the, er, pass | 0:02:45 | 0:02:51 | |
on the way out of Sheffield. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
Trace was going to bring all the butties. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
I was going to bring the goodies, as she said - | 0:02:56 | 0:02:59 | |
cakes, biscuits, bottle of wine. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
James was so excited that he was going the game. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
When he got to my front door, he just turned round and looked at me | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
and he said, "Mum, we're going to win today," | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
and I just shut the door, | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
never knowing that'd be the last time I'd ever see my son alive. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:27 | |
Saturday, 15th of April 1989, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
went on duty at about half past eight in the morning. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
Obviously we knew it were a semifinal match, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
Liverpool and Notts Forest. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
A big game. | 0:03:57 | 0:03:58 | |
Obviously you've got to have police officers not just at the ground, | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
you've got to cover the whole of the city, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
so it's all hands to the pump, really. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
I'd booked to go to Scotland, er, for a week, | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
and they said, "You're going to have to delay it, | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
"cos we need everybody to work on the Saturday, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
"and of course you can go on your leave on the Sunday." | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
We got to the ground about 9.30am, | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
drove there in our own cars, in uniform. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
I think I parked probably half a mile away from Hillsborough | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
and walked down to the ground. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
The police would come from all over South Yorkshire - | 0:04:44 | 0:04:47 | |
there'd be dog handlers, police horses. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
In the calendar of South Yorkshire's year, | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
this will have been the biggest thing they were doing. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
A third of the force all out on one day - massive operation, | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
it needed somebody with experience and know-how and craft, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
and also somebody who knew about football. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
Sheffield Wednesday Football Club | 0:05:08 | 0:05:10 | |
is under the jurisdiction of Hammerton Road Police Station. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
The Chief Superintendent who has responsibility for that division | 0:05:15 | 0:05:19 | |
is Brian Mole. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:20 | |
Brian Mole has policed Hillsborough | 0:05:23 | 0:05:25 | |
and been responsible for Hillsborough stadium | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
since the early '80s. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:30 | |
He was one of those guys who grew into this job | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
and was loyal to his officers | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
but, you know, he was grounded in experience. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
He knew the job, he knew the area, | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
and, actually, he knew football, as well. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
MEN STRUGGLE | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
Shut your mouth, otherwise I'll blow your head off! | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
MAN GRUNTS Shut it. | 0:05:59 | 0:06:01 | |
An informant had told me that a young police officer, | 0:06:02 | 0:06:06 | |
I think he was in his early 20s, very new to the service, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:09 | |
had been lured to a post office in Ranmoor. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
Move! | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
Get here! Get... | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
Come on! Get here! | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
From there he was taken by armed robbers with balaclavas on. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
-Get him on his knees! -Get down. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
Stop struggling! Get his pants down! | 0:06:26 | 0:06:29 | |
They had two pistols with them... | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
-HE CHOKES -Take the shot! | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
..and they pointed them at his head. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
CAMERA FLASH WHINES | 0:06:35 | 0:06:37 | |
It later turned out they were just officers playing a trick on him. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
THEY LAUGH Well done, my son! | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
Now, none of us are going to enjoy that, | 0:06:43 | 0:06:45 | |
and they certainly aren't going to enjoy it | 0:06:45 | 0:06:46 | |
when you find out that it's some colleagues that's done it to you. | 0:06:46 | 0:06:49 | |
-What?! -Come on, pull your trousers up. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:52 | |
His humiliation must've been complete. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
HE SOBS | 0:06:54 | 0:06:56 | |
He went home, told his wife, and then the next thing you know | 0:06:56 | 0:07:00 | |
a complaint's made, so an investigation was started, | 0:07:00 | 0:07:03 | |
which is when the leak came to me | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
that, um, they'd set this poor officer up. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
At the end of it all, they decided to sack four of them | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
and reduce two in rank, and fine two others. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
There was a huge amount of embarrassment, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
and Chief Superintendent Brian Mole, | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
who would've had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the incident, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
erm, felt the sharp brunt of it by being transferred - | 0:07:32 | 0:07:36 | |
I think I'm right in saying, for the first time ever - | 0:07:36 | 0:07:39 | |
outside of Sheffield from F Division, Hammerton Road | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
to Barnsley. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:43 | |
It means that 21 days before the semifinal on the 15th of April 1989, | 0:07:47 | 0:07:53 | |
21 days, an officer with no experience of policing Hillsborough | 0:07:53 | 0:08:01 | |
is given the job that Brian Mole had. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:05 | |
David Duckenfield is in a position | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
where he does not have the experience | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
to deal with the complexity of Hillsborough | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
should anything actually go wrong. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
The first thing he said | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
when he sat down was, "Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
"to the press conference | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
"ahead of the Liverpool versus Nottinghamshire..." | 0:08:31 | 0:08:36 | |
and everybody looked around | 0:08:36 | 0:08:37 | |
and then somebody said, "Nottingham Forest." | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
"Nottingham Forest." So, I immediately thought, | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
"If he doesn't know the name of the teams at this stage, | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
A, that's a bit odd - maybe it was a slip of the tongue." | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
But it also made me think, "Maybe he isn't a football person." | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
This is an all-ticket game, er... | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
A football person's likely to have a better handle | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
on what the event's going to be like | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
and all the different combinations that make up a football match, | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
you know, in terms of, er, the passions and the tribalism. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:04 | |
..signs of excess alcohol... | 0:09:04 | 0:09:06 | |
He just came across as an academic, | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
not somebody that was in any way, shape or form, | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
er, like his predecessor. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
About ten o'clock-ish we went into the North Stand, | 0:09:34 | 0:09:38 | |
the cantilever stand, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:39 | |
and we had a briefing with a lot of senior officers. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
The briefing basically went the same at every match. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
You had discussions of how to react with people | 0:09:48 | 0:09:52 | |
who were arrested for offences, monitoring the crowd for offences, | 0:09:52 | 0:09:57 | |
disciplining the crowd - | 0:09:57 | 0:09:58 | |
and not a word on crowd safety. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
This briefing just seemed to go on and on and on. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:04 | |
And I always remember Mr Duckenfield, his last words were, | 0:10:04 | 0:10:08 | |
"Well, ladies and gentlemen, | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
I know it's been a very long and involved briefing, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
"but I do believe we've covered for every eventuality." | 0:10:12 | 0:10:16 | |
And I thought... I thought at the time, I thought, | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
"This guy likes the sound of his own voice." | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
Hillsborough was an old stadium that had been kind of upgraded | 0:10:27 | 0:10:31 | |
for the 1966 World Cup. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
There had been modifications made, | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
but a perfect example of its danger was the Leppings Lane end. | 0:10:36 | 0:10:40 | |
If you start out on the street, | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
there is only access from Leppings Lane. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
You arrive outside of the stadium, and it was a well-known bottleneck. | 0:10:46 | 0:10:51 | |
So you've got over 24,000 people | 0:10:51 | 0:10:54 | |
being processed through this small number of turnstiles. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
All of the fans are converging on the one spot. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:02 | |
ANNOUNCEMENT OVER TANNOY | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
BAND PLAYS | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
We didn't really have plans for going to the match, | 0:11:14 | 0:11:16 | |
we couldn't get tickets. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
It was always impossible, almost, to get tickets for the semifinal - | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
but you didn't want to miss that, | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
so it was worth the drive to Sheffield | 0:11:24 | 0:11:25 | |
on the off chance that you might get in the ground. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
At that end of the ground at Hillsborough, | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
there is a concourse area. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:36 | |
You kind of go into some outer gates | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
before you go through the turnstiles, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
and we were herded into that area. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:44 | |
I didn't have tickets, but I thought, | 0:11:44 | 0:11:46 | |
"I'm herded in here," you know, "who knows what might happen? | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
"Who knows? I might be able to give a guy a fiver on the gate." | 0:11:50 | 0:11:54 | |
It got fairly...crushy there, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
and so they opened up the gates, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
and everyone went through and we thought... | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
"Brilliant." | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
Like all of us, I tried to get behind the goal, | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
and way too many of us tried to get behind the goal, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
and it was about the worst experience I ever had | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
at a football match. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:21 | |
The match in 1981 when fans were crushed at Hillsborough, | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
people could have been seriously injured or killed. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
The game proceeded, even though some fans went to hospital, | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
many had bruised ribs... | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
..and the police took the decision to allow them to sit quietly | 0:12:44 | 0:12:48 | |
around the perimeter track. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:50 | |
And the police indicated that had that not occurred, | 0:12:52 | 0:12:57 | |
there could've been deaths. | 0:12:57 | 0:12:59 | |
And the response from the chair of the club | 0:13:00 | 0:13:04 | |
was to say that was a nonsense - | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
I think he used the phrase, "Bollocks. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
"Nobody would've died." | 0:13:10 | 0:13:12 | |
That, to me, is a clear indication | 0:13:13 | 0:13:17 | |
of how deep institutional complacency can run. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
Despite all the warning signs of 1981, | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
nothing was in the operational order to prepare police officers | 0:13:26 | 0:13:33 | |
for what happened on the day at Hillsborough with regards to safety. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
Obviously, first thing is, there's nobody there, first off. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
I expected it to be slow, but it was extremely slow. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
It was so slow that one of the turnstile operators | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
remarked to another he'd only had 74 people through, | 0:13:58 | 0:14:01 | |
and he was so bored, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
he'd worked out what rate they'd got to come through at. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
We got to the ground probably at about 1.30. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
Liverpool fans were arriving, there weren't that many there, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
and we just started hunting around | 0:14:14 | 0:14:15 | |
to see if we could find anybody who might want to swap a ticket, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:18 | |
so we sort of, you know, we managed that pretty quickly, I think. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
I was pretty pleased to get two significantly more expensive tickets | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
in the stand and, erm, he swapped those for a pair of tickets | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
for the Leppings Lane terrace. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
We went through that turnstile at about two o'clock, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
into that concourse behind the stand | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
and then just saw the sign that said "standing" | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
right in the middle of the bottom of that stand. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
There was only one place we were going, | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
and, you know, that sort of thrill you get as a football fan | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
when you go into the ground and you get the first glimpse of the pitch. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
"We're going to see Liverpool play in the FA Cup semifinal." | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
We were in, and we were... we were right behind the goal. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
Me and my brother went by car, | 0:15:14 | 0:15:15 | |
cos we'd been successful the previous year. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
Hung around and went to the same pubs | 0:15:18 | 0:15:21 | |
that we went the previous year. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:23 | |
We managed to find a place to park. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
Like people do, we went and had two pints in the, er... | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
in one of the pubs there, | 0:15:28 | 0:15:29 | |
and the pub was... it was all a good atmosphere, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
there was no problems in the pub. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
Everybody was singing and having a good time. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:35 | |
It were like a good-natured carnival atmosphere - | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
it was semifinal. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:43 | |
Our job was to escort the Nottingham Forest fans | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
to the ground on the buses. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:52 | |
Everyone's jovial, you know, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:54 | |
asking if they could stop off for a pint on the way to the ground. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
I said, "No, we're going straight to the ground, we don't stop." | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
The fans saying, "Well, I want to get off," | 0:16:00 | 0:16:01 | |
"Well, this bus isn't stopping," you know, that sort of thing. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:04 | |
And when all the buses were empty we'd go back and get more. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:07 | |
He's a nice lad, anyway, mate. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:10 | |
I saw one or two fans who were obviously... | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
they'd had a drink but they weren't... | 0:16:13 | 0:16:15 | |
you couldn't construe them as being drunk | 0:16:15 | 0:16:16 | |
for purposes of locking them up | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
for drunk and disorderly or owt like that. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
And if they'd got a tinnie or owt like that, | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
we made 'em either sup it up or pour it down a grate | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
before they went into ground. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:26 | |
We walked down towards the ground | 0:16:31 | 0:16:32 | |
and there was just a few people first of all... | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
..and then it just built up, | 0:16:37 | 0:16:38 | |
and I was surprised at the amount of people | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
that were walking towards the ground. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
Didn't really see any visible police presence. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:48 | |
We were checking fans who were coming through the turnstiles, | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
searching, they were all decent people, good humoured, sober, | 0:17:02 | 0:17:06 | |
well behaved, well mannered, very compliant. | 0:17:06 | 0:17:10 | |
You know, and it was a really good, good atmosphere... | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
..and then it started to get busier and busier. | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
The attitude seemed to change. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:23 | |
It was about twenty past two, twenty-five past two, | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
myself and a colleague detained a lad | 0:17:26 | 0:17:28 | |
who jumped through the turnstile without a ticket, | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
detained him and took him to the police room, | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
processed him through there, | 0:17:34 | 0:17:35 | |
and when we came back it was just mayhem. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:39 | |
We got there about 20 past, and it was really busy outside. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
There was no real organisation there. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:48 | |
It was just a mass of people - there was no queuing or anything. | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
The more we were watching it, the less people seemed to be going in. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:54 | |
There didn't seem to be anybody really going through the turnstiles. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
We thought the turnstiles must've been broken, | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
and the previous year we got there at the same time, | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
and we just... I don't remember any problems at all, | 0:18:01 | 0:18:04 | |
we just seemed to walk straight in. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:06 | |
At that time, the Leppings Lane at Hillsborough | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
was segregated into pens, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
and the two central pens behind the goal were quite busy, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
but the ones to the side were really empty. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
'Well, you look at the Liverpool end, | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
'to the right of the goal, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:29 | |
'there's hardly anybody on those steps. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:32 | |
'No, to the right of there - that's it. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:34 | |
'Look down there. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
'Unless that's some sort of segregation | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
'for what they call neutrals | 0:18:39 | 0:18:40 | |
'who've got their tickets from Sheffield Wednesday - | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
'that could be it, I suppose.' | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
You could see all the concrete, you could see the crush barriers. | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
If you could see concrete or you could see barriers, | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
you knew there was a lot of spare capacity. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
But the two central pens were quite busy. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
It just kept on filling up and filling up | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
and I said to Phil at one point, | 0:19:07 | 0:19:08 | |
"Shall we go down the front? | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
"Because it's getting uncomfortable here." | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
We mulled it over for, like, five minutes - | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
we were standing next to each other - | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
and then by about half two, it just got more and more full, | 0:19:18 | 0:19:23 | |
to the point where we couldn't have got down the front if we wanted to. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
We all know that football fans love to get behind the goal. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
Soon that fills up, and what you do is you work sideways from there, | 0:19:36 | 0:19:41 | |
and you find your own level. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
You'd always have the sway and the push and the shove | 0:19:44 | 0:19:46 | |
and all of the things we now know that are so dangerous, | 0:19:46 | 0:19:49 | |
but that would be the way. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:50 | |
You could go sideways if you felt that you were being crushed, | 0:19:50 | 0:19:52 | |
you could move sideways. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
Once pens were introduced at Hillsborough in 1985, | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
you couldn't move sideways, you had to stay in that confined area. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:02 | |
So that idea that fans could go down that tunnel | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
into the backs of already crowded fans | 0:20:10 | 0:20:12 | |
and then somehow they could find their own level is a nonsense, | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
because there was nowhere to go. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
The control box is right there at the corner of Leppings Lane. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:32 | |
It's above the terrace, perfect view, | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
right down into the central pens, | 0:20:35 | 0:20:36 | |
right across the whole of the terrace. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
It's a very small box, full of monitors, | 0:20:39 | 0:20:41 | |
monitoring the crowd at all points. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:44 | |
In the control box you have Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, | 0:20:44 | 0:20:47 | |
you have his assistant Bernard Murray. | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
The only place where there is relative silence | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
and relative calm is in the control box. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:57 | |
Those officers inside the ground and outside the ground | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
are dependent on the control box for instructions - this is the hub. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
You can see right beneath them, right in their eye line - | 0:21:12 | 0:21:16 | |
they don't need monitors - | 0:21:16 | 0:21:17 | |
you can see this incredible compression of bodies, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
so you can already see, at that point, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:24 | |
prior to the disaster occurring, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
that the central pens are packed tight. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
Had some lunch in the gymnasium. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:48 | |
I had apple pie with custard. | 0:21:52 | 0:21:54 | |
That sticks in my mind for some reason, I don't know why, | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
it's bizarre. | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
And then there was, like, an atmosphere started, | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
and you could see police were starting looking at the door, | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
and you're thinking, "What's going on?" | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
It just started... atmosphere started to build, | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
and everyone's sort of, "Right, well, let's...I'm just going to... | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
"Where's my hat? Where's my helmet? Where are my gloves?" | 0:22:12 | 0:22:15 | |
You can tell people's tone of voice starts to creep up, | 0:22:15 | 0:22:19 | |
and you're thinking, "That's not sounding too good," | 0:22:19 | 0:22:21 | |
I think we're getting ready to move, | 0:22:21 | 0:22:23 | |
and, of course, we were deployed to Leppings Lane end. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
There was a mass of people in front of the ground. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:36 | |
Couldn't see any turnstiles at all. | 0:22:36 | 0:22:39 | |
The crowd built up behind us, | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
so much so that we were in a mass of people. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
As soon as we came round that corner, | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
you could see just a press of people outside. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
"How are we going to get all these people in?" | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
People were being forced in the turnstiles. | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
We were literally pulling people through the turnstiles | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
to get them out of the crush outside. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
It was quite normal that a message would be given | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
that the kick-off was being delayed, | 0:23:10 | 0:23:11 | |
and that can then be relayed to the fans outside, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
but there's no plan to delay the kick-off. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
ALL SHOUT | 0:23:17 | 0:23:19 | |
MAN SCREAMS | 0:23:19 | 0:23:21 | |
CROWD JEERS | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
We could hear on Sergeant Jacques' radio the voices of police officers | 0:23:28 | 0:23:34 | |
getting more and more frantic, | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
and when I say frantic... | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
I mean frantic. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
You could tell... | 0:23:42 | 0:23:44 | |
..there were an element of fear in their voices. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:49 | |
Some poor lad just lost it. | 0:23:55 | 0:23:56 | |
I remember this on the radio, saying, | 0:23:56 | 0:23:58 | |
"For fuck's sake, for fuck's sake, open these gates! | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
"If you don't open these gates, people are going to die. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
"For fuck's sake, please open these gates." | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
I looked at me colleague, "Someone's swearing on the radio." | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
Didn't happen, you just didn't do it. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:09 | |
You would hope that people would see what was happening | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
outside the ground. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:15 | |
CCTV would've shown what was happening outside the ground. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
There seemed to be a big gap, a big black hole, | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
a big nothingness coming from police control room. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
It were as if everybody... everybody had just frozen. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
You're in a situation where the pressure is so great | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
that you're going to actually have injury and death outside the ground. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:39 | |
The police officer in charge outside the ground, | 0:24:41 | 0:24:43 | |
Superintendent Marshall, realises this - | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
he phones through into the ground, to Duckenfield. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:50 | |
He can see what's happening outside the ground on his monitors | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
and he's asked to open exit gate C, | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
so that the fans who were at the back of that crush | 0:24:57 | 0:25:02 | |
can be fed into exit gate C, | 0:25:02 | 0:25:03 | |
therefore relieving the crush at the turnstiles, | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
preventing death or injury, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:08 | |
as Marshall puts it, outside of the stadium. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
RADIO CHATTER | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
Duckenfield takes the decision, | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
"If this is what needs to be done, so be it." | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
He orders the gate to be opened, and at that point, un-stewarded, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
in come the fans. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:27 | |
We just went in with the crowd. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:42 | |
We were among the first 20 or 30 | 0:25:43 | 0:25:45 | |
to actually go through the gates that were opened. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
Some had got tickets and were saying, | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
"Do you want to see my ticket?" | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
and I said, "No, just get in, just get in." | 0:25:57 | 0:25:59 | |
The gate got opened... | 0:26:02 | 0:26:03 | |
..so we then just walked at a leisurely pace through. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
I was quite surprised that it was quite free of people - | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
we literally could stand quite free. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
If it had been as packed there as it had been outside, | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
I don't think I'd have gone down the tunnel. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
I said to me mate, cos I was in the stands, | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
so I was in the wrong area, | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
so I said to him, I said, "I'll see you later," you know, | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
"Yeah, fine." | 0:26:30 | 0:26:31 | |
And I went one way, and he went down the tunnel. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
Foolishly we just went for the tunnel, really, | 0:26:33 | 0:26:35 | |
we just went straight down a tunnel. | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
An open-mouthed tunnel, nobody policing it. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
Previous years, that had been sealed | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
when it appeared that the central pens were full, | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
but not this year. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:46 | |
I know that when you come through that gate, you see that tunnel. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:52 | |
You certainly wouldn't think about going past the tunnel | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
and into the other entrance into the West Stand. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
CROWD CHANTS | 0:27:24 | 0:27:25 | |
We were in red, they were in all white, | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
the pitch was as green as you've ever seen. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
If you would've taken a snapshot of football | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
at its most beautiful, that was that moment. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
I just thought to myself, "This is great, this is..." | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
You know, "Football doesn't get any better than this." | 0:27:41 | 0:27:44 | |
-MOTSON: -'So, on a clear, sunny day at Hillsborough, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
'the stage is set for a rerun of last year's classic, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
'Liverpool in red, Forest all in white. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
'Stuart Pearce gives away the first free kick.' | 0:28:26 | 0:28:30 | |
I had no idea that the game had even started. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:36 | |
We were pushed forward very quickly, | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
just the momentum took us forward | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
and there was a gap created behind us, | 0:28:41 | 0:28:42 | |
obviously from the momentum that had come, | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
and Tracey had fallen down. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:46 | |
I turned round and somebody picked her up, | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
didn't see sight of Richard or Tracey after that. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
By the time I stopped, I was right near the front. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
This panicked mass - | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
nobody was watching the game. | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
There was a bit of a surge and I got pushed onto a barrier. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
It eased off a bit, and I turned round, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
and I could see me dad behind me, | 0:29:11 | 0:29:13 | |
and the last thing I said to him was, "Are you OK?" | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
and he just said, "Yeah." | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
Next thing, I was... I was pushed again. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
The pressure just got immensely worse. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
At the beginning I thought, | 0:29:25 | 0:29:27 | |
"Oh, it's going to... it'll ease off again," | 0:29:27 | 0:29:29 | |
because it always eases off, I've done this countless times. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
But it just didn't... it didn't ease off at all, | 0:29:33 | 0:29:35 | |
it just got tighter and tighter | 0:29:35 | 0:29:37 | |
and then you could hear people crying, er, like they were dying. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
There was two lads on the other side of the barrier, | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
I was really in their face, cos I was right over the barrier. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
I was asking them to help me but...they couldn't, | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
they said, "We can't help you, we're struggling ourselves," | 0:29:53 | 0:29:58 | |
and there was this other lad who was... | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
he was taking all the weight of me, | 0:30:01 | 0:30:03 | |
and I seen him look at me, he never said a word, | 0:30:03 | 0:30:07 | |
he just looked at me, and I... | 0:30:07 | 0:30:10 | |
there was nothing I could... there was nothing I could do. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
The only recollection I have of the six minutes that was played | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
was Beardsley hit the bar. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:18 | |
'Beardsley. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
'Oh, he's hit the bar.' | 0:30:20 | 0:30:22 | |
That was the moment it felt like the crowd sort of convulsed, | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
and then something...went. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
I felt very light-headed, I felt like my vision was narrowing | 0:30:30 | 0:30:36 | |
and you were hearing shouting about, | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
"Hold him up, hold him up, hold him up." | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
"I've got to get down. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:42 | |
"If I can get down I'll be all right. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
"If it just eases off for a second, I'll get down on the floor, | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
"that's what...that's what I'll do," | 0:30:47 | 0:30:49 | |
and then I'm thinking to myself, "No. I'm dying here." | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
Eventually I passed out. | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
Nothing was being done. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:22 | |
These two or three police officers, whatever it was, | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
were just looking, | 0:31:26 | 0:31:27 | |
telling this guy to get off the crush barrier. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:30 | |
This was unfolding within feet of where they were standing. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:35 | |
I presume that these guys had policed football matches | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
many, many times before... | 0:31:40 | 0:31:42 | |
..which, you know, says it all | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
about how the police saw football fans at that time. | 0:31:48 | 0:31:53 | |
CROWD ROARS | 0:31:54 | 0:31:56 | |
'And there are fans on the pitch here, in the six-yard area. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:59 | |
'The referee's going to have to stop the game. | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
'There's an overflow behind the goal | 0:32:01 | 0:32:04 | |
'and the police inspector is on the pitch, | 0:32:04 | 0:32:08 | |
'and they've come through the barriers. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
'Now, I can only think that's overcrowding, | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
'it doesn't look to me to be any sort of misbehaviour. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
'More police are being called for. | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
'Reinforcements are coming from the Forest end now | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
'to attend to this problem.' | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
As we got to the corner of the pitch, | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
the centre pen looked absolutely crammed, | 0:32:29 | 0:32:34 | |
and I could see there's too many people | 0:32:34 | 0:32:36 | |
in those middle two pens than... | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
It was obvious it was too many people. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:41 | |
This is going tits up. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:47 | |
It's not a pitch invasion, it's not public order, | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
it is people dying and in distress, | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
so I opened the pen. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:55 | |
Just carried on screaming, and then all of a sudden | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
I just heard somebody say, "Come through here," | 0:33:05 | 0:33:07 | |
or, "Come here, love," or... | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
and I was literally sort of grabbed, sort of pulled... | 0:33:10 | 0:33:15 | |
..and I found myself on the pitch with a camera on my face. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
It was just a lot of fractured sort of breathing | 0:33:27 | 0:33:31 | |
and people rasping and people shouting | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
and a rising tide of panic and anguish and anger. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:41 | |
FANS SHOUT FURIOUSLY | 0:33:41 | 0:33:43 | |
I was stood at the fence looking into the ground, | 0:33:54 | 0:33:57 | |
but I was looking long-sighted, | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
and there was a police officer next to me, | 0:33:59 | 0:34:02 | |
we're just looking round and he said, "He's a goner." | 0:34:02 | 0:34:06 | |
And he pointed in front of him, and I... | 0:34:06 | 0:34:10 | |
to my shock, about three foot in front of me... | 0:34:10 | 0:34:13 | |
..was this lad. | 0:34:14 | 0:34:16 | |
It was like looking at fish in a trawler net. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:30 | |
People were so crushed... | 0:34:33 | 0:34:35 | |
..that you...you couldn't see a full person, if you like. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:39 | |
And that were just something that will haunt me forever, really. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
All I could see was his shoulders and his face... | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
..and his face was deep purple. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
He wasn't breathing. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:00 | |
I don't think he was. | 0:35:00 | 0:35:03 | |
And I thought, "It's... | 0:35:03 | 0:35:04 | |
"Oh, my God, you know, this is... This is..." | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
I just... And then it suddenly... | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
This isn't happening. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:11 | |
And I noticed there was just bodies everywhere, | 0:35:11 | 0:35:14 | |
a sea at the front of bodies. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:17 | |
It was seeing that, you know, broken, crumpled, er... | 0:35:19 | 0:35:24 | |
..pile of people, and then you just thought, | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
"Jesus", you know, | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
"this isn't one or two, this is... | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
"This is a lot of people." | 0:35:36 | 0:35:37 | |
I saw one particular lad who was caught up to his waist in bodies. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
So I grabbed hold of his hands and I thought, | 0:35:44 | 0:35:48 | |
"I'll pull him out, no problem." | 0:35:48 | 0:35:50 | |
No chance, absolutely no chance. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
He was just... He might as well have had his legs in vices. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
I could not move him. Could not move him. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:58 | |
As I leant over, my radio fell out my pocket. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:01 | |
There he is, in all this...carnage, | 0:36:04 | 0:36:08 | |
all this terror, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
and, to my amazement, he picks me radio up and hands it back to me. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
I was a small, skinny kid in glasses and this bloke said to me, | 0:36:19 | 0:36:24 | |
"Go on, lad, up you go," and, like, lifted me up. | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
These guys were leaning right over. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
you just looked up and they were just, you know, | 0:36:30 | 0:36:32 | |
making eye contact with you and just saying, you know, | 0:36:32 | 0:36:34 | |
"You get up here." | 0:36:34 | 0:36:36 | |
I was lifted up and this guy leant over the barriers | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
and put his arms out and pulled me up | 0:36:41 | 0:36:43 | |
and then he slapped me around the face a couple of times. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:46 | |
He looked in my eyes and said, "Are you all right?" | 0:36:46 | 0:36:48 | |
Then just said, "Get up the back." | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
I went up to the back of the stand, right at the back of the stand, | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
and I just sat there sort of feeling numb | 0:36:53 | 0:36:55 | |
and watched this thing unfold. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:57 | |
I looked over my left shoulder and I thought, | 0:37:02 | 0:37:04 | |
"I'm not doing anything good here." | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
I could see that nobody could get in through the gates | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
that were in front of those two pens, | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
but when I looked across to my right, | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
I could see Sergeant Green, who was one of my sergeants at the time, | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
was stood at a gate. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:19 | |
So I thought, "If I go in there, | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
"I can just run along and get into the other pen." | 0:37:23 | 0:37:27 | |
I got in and I couldn't understand why | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
these people weren't moving towards me. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
There's actually a six-foot-high spike railing fences | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
between the pens. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:37 | |
No wonder people can't move. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:38 | |
And I thought, "What a stupid thing, having a spiked fence." | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
But I thought, "I've got to get over that fence," so I jumped in. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:49 | |
It was like spaghetti, they were tangled up. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:55 | |
It was just a case of trying to rescue people, get them out. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
You'd see the same socks on. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:00 | |
Well, that's going be somebody's legs, | 0:38:00 | 0:38:02 | |
so you try and pull them out. | 0:38:02 | 0:38:04 | |
But you can't pull them out, | 0:38:04 | 0:38:05 | |
because their arms are wrapped round somebody else's leg. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
You'd feel for a pulse, | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
but their tongues were so black and swollen, | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
I thought, "You're struggling, really, to get any air in there." | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
Lips were blue, eyes were glazed. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:17 | |
By this time, you could see people were starting to be | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
taken onto the pitch. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:21 | |
I thought, "They're starting to get their act together | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
"and starting to treat people outside, | 0:38:24 | 0:38:25 | |
"so get them over as fast as you can," | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
and we were just pulling people out. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
When I come to, it had all eased off around me quite a bit. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:34 | |
I remember some fella saying, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:36 | |
"Don't go down there, get up off the floor." | 0:38:36 | 0:38:38 | |
So I said... So I got up. As...as I turned round, | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
I could see people getting hoisted up into the stand. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
And I... I didn't know... | 0:38:45 | 0:38:47 | |
All I thought was, | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
"Just get out of here. I've just got to get out of here." | 0:38:49 | 0:38:51 | |
So I put me hand up, and me right arm wouldn't work, | 0:38:51 | 0:38:54 | |
I'd crushed me right arm. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:55 | |
I got pulled up, but just by me left arm. | 0:38:55 | 0:38:58 | |
I could see people pulling at the barriers, | 0:39:00 | 0:39:03 | |
and there's police and people on the pitch, | 0:39:03 | 0:39:05 | |
I could see all sorts going on. | 0:39:05 | 0:39:07 | |
I've gotta find me dad, because he's going be worrying for me. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:10 | |
You know, I've... "Where...? How...how is he?" | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
Worrying about how he was, but I thought, | 0:39:12 | 0:39:13 | |
"He's going be worrying where I am. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
"If I'm up here, he's going be looking everywhere for me." | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
There was this big chap that was being helped out. | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
He was, erm... | 0:39:21 | 0:39:23 | |
unconscious at least. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:25 | |
I really was the only officer there, so I lifted his T-shirt up. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:29 | |
I put my ear to his chest, couldn't hear anything. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:33 | |
I think a St John Ambulance chap came up and looked in his eyes, | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
and he said, "He's dead." | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
And so I just lifted his T-shirt over his face. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:41 | |
Erm... | 0:39:52 | 0:39:53 | |
There was a big guy. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:07 | |
He had a red shirt on and they pulled it over his head. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
And at that point you realised, "Jesus, he's dead." | 0:40:10 | 0:40:13 | |
And everyone around me was like, | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
"No, he's... No-one's dead, no-one..." | 0:40:15 | 0:40:17 | |
You know, cos no-one wanted to...to believe, | 0:40:17 | 0:40:19 | |
everyone was in denial. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:21 | |
I'd done some CPR training. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
I thought, "Well, I'll go round and see whether I can help." | 0:40:23 | 0:40:27 | |
I made me way out. I was just totally on me own, | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
cos obviously everybody else was focused | 0:40:30 | 0:40:32 | |
on what was going on down below. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:34 | |
As I walked down the steps, just as I got to the bottom of the steps, | 0:40:34 | 0:40:38 | |
I could see me dad lying on the floor. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:40 | |
Me dad was outside the ground, on, like, a concourse area. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
There must've been another ten bodies that were just... | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
all just lying there. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:49 | |
They were all covered over but he had a tattoo on his arm | 0:40:49 | 0:40:52 | |
and I recognised him straightaway. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:54 | |
The next thing I know there was a big crowd of police all round me. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:59 | |
It was surreal. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:02 | |
A line of police, I don't know, 40, 60, | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
and then there was people lying on the floor, | 0:41:06 | 0:41:08 | |
and that's when I realised they were dead. | 0:41:08 | 0:41:10 | |
But the police were just standing there. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
I mean, why would you just stand there? | 0:41:18 | 0:41:22 | |
So I went up to one of the police. I said, "What's going on?" | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
I said, "Why aren't you doing something?" | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
They just sort of looked straight ahead of me. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
I said, "How many? How many?" And he started sobbing. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
I did... I just, like, really panicked badly. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
And ran away as fast as I could from the ground. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:45 | |
Rose shouted to me in the kitchen, | 0:41:54 | 0:41:57 | |
"Marg!" she said, "There's trouble at Hillsborough." | 0:41:57 | 0:42:00 | |
And I just carried on doing the sandwiches and I thought, | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
"Where's Hillsborough?" | 0:42:04 | 0:42:06 | |
So I said, "Where's Hillsborough, Rose?" | 0:42:07 | 0:42:09 | |
She said, "Isn't that where our Jimmy is, James?" | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
I said, "No, they've gone to Sheffield." | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
So she said, "Marg, this is where the trouble is, Sheffield." | 0:42:16 | 0:42:20 | |
I said, "You've just told me Hillsborough." | 0:42:20 | 0:42:23 | |
She said, "That's the ground." | 0:42:23 | 0:42:24 | |
-MOTSON: -'Now, one has to say | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
'that that is a segregated part of the ground, | 0:42:33 | 0:42:35 | |
'the Leppings Lane Terrace. | 0:42:35 | 0:42:37 | |
'Liverpool supporters occupying it, | 0:42:37 | 0:42:39 | |
'and I can only assume that there was overcrowding, | 0:42:39 | 0:42:43 | |
'and as they tried to come out from behind the barriers, | 0:42:43 | 0:42:47 | |
'people at the front were crushed.' | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
I was really upset... | 0:42:50 | 0:42:53 | |
..cos I knew my three were in there. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
'There are an enormous number of police there | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
'but they clearly haven't sorted out the number of people | 0:42:59 | 0:43:02 | |
'who can't seem to find any space.' | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
I immediately rang Les, who was in work. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
I asked him had he been watching | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
what was going on in Sheffield on the television, he said yes. | 0:43:10 | 0:43:14 | |
I wasn't to worry, because Richard would never take the girls | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
down the front. | 0:43:17 | 0:43:19 | |
'It's such a sensitive time...' | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
Just watching the screen and I saw these people... | 0:43:21 | 0:43:24 | |
..getting laid... people laid on the pitch, | 0:43:27 | 0:43:29 | |
and I thought I'd saw James. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
I waited at home, I switched everything off | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
and the minute Les was home, we were leaving for Sheffield. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:41 | |
People were getting pulled out and put on the pitch. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:50 | |
And I literally just stood there and just cried. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:56 | |
I didn't know what to do, didn't know what to think. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:59 | |
In the back of my mind, I was always worried about Tracey, | 0:44:01 | 0:44:04 | |
cos she'd fallen down and I thought, | 0:44:04 | 0:44:06 | |
"She's smaller, she's more petite," | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
but Richard was stocky, he was tall. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:12 | |
He was a big lad and I never once thought | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
that anything would be wrong with him. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
I thought that I've got out, he would get out, | 0:44:16 | 0:44:20 | |
but I was concerned about Tracey. | 0:44:20 | 0:44:22 | |
It's pretty clear that there is no order coming from the control box. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:28 | |
Intuitively, it should've been obvious | 0:44:29 | 0:44:31 | |
that what was happening was crushing and a safety problem | 0:44:31 | 0:44:34 | |
and trying to get people out. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:36 | |
What happens then, the control box is visited by Graham Kelly | 0:44:40 | 0:44:45 | |
from the Football Association, along with his assistant. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:48 | |
And for whatever reason, in the heat of the moment... | 0:44:48 | 0:44:53 | |
..David Duckenfield tells him that there has been an inrush | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
of Liverpool fans forcing entry through an exit gate | 0:44:58 | 0:45:03 | |
into the stadium and down the tunnel. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:06 | |
At that moment, the person who is ultimately responsible | 0:45:07 | 0:45:13 | |
for the hiring of the stadium is told, unequivocally, | 0:45:13 | 0:45:16 | |
that Liverpool fans have caused the disaster | 0:45:16 | 0:45:19 | |
by violent access to the ground. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:22 | |
That's the message that, within minutes, | 0:45:22 | 0:45:25 | |
even before the bodies are pulled out of pen three, | 0:45:25 | 0:45:31 | |
the world knows that the responsibility for Hillsborough | 0:45:31 | 0:45:37 | |
lies in the actions of Liverpool fans. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:42 | |
'Yeah, I've got... | 0:45:49 | 0:45:50 | |
'I've got an explanation of what's happened here. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
'I'm going to give you a line. | 0:45:52 | 0:45:54 | |
'And the story emerges that one of the outside gates | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
'leading into that terrace was broken. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:00 | |
'People without tickets got in, were therefore overcrowding | 0:46:00 | 0:46:04 | |
'the people with tickets, and that's why the crush occurred.' | 0:46:04 | 0:46:07 | |
The lie that this is, | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
when Duckenfield knows that he ordered, | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
agreed to, the opening of gate C, | 0:46:15 | 0:46:19 | |
the lie becomes defining. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:23 | |
It becomes the defining moment of the first phase | 0:46:23 | 0:46:29 | |
of building a case against Liverpool fans, | 0:46:29 | 0:46:33 | |
who, from this moment onwards, are discredited in their actions | 0:46:33 | 0:46:38 | |
as coming to the ground without tickets, forcing entry, | 0:46:38 | 0:46:42 | |
being violent, being drunk. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:45 | |
That whole process then feeds the myth. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
The myth begins with the lie. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
All emergency planning procedures have a core element, | 0:46:58 | 0:47:04 | |
which is the declaration of emergency. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:06 | |
It is clear that no emergency plan is put into operation. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:13 | |
Everything that happens from there on is ad hoc. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
If you don't have an emergency response plan, | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
that's when you have an ambulance coming on the pitch, | 0:47:19 | 0:47:22 | |
another ambulance coming on the pitch. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:23 | |
Ambulances arriving outside, backing up, right up Penistone Road. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
They can't get past each other. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
You have ambulance officers leaving their vehicles, | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
but not leaving their keys so you've got them boxed in. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
At the same time, you've not got people coming with stretchers, | 0:47:34 | 0:47:38 | |
or people coming with defibrillators or any other... | 0:47:38 | 0:47:41 | |
any other of the standard processes that we would operate | 0:47:41 | 0:47:44 | |
in terms of an emergency. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
The fact that no emergency is declared, in a situation | 0:47:50 | 0:47:53 | |
where people have only got a limited time to be saved... | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
..is an important element of the whole process. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
Don't be looking at them. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:10 | |
You want to look at the fucking police who are doing fuck-all! | 0:48:10 | 0:48:12 | |
I remember going into ground. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:17 | |
No sooner had we rushed in ground | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
than we'd got pulled straight back out again. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
I just remember, like, there being carnage. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
We had to go to help get ambulances in. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
Police officers' immediate response | 0:48:30 | 0:48:36 | |
is to do as they're told. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:37 | |
Their instruction is to place a cordon across the pitch | 0:48:40 | 0:48:44 | |
so that Nottingham Forest fans, | 0:48:44 | 0:48:46 | |
who might interpret what's happening as hooliganism, | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
don't come on to the pitch. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:51 | |
That gives the appearance that the police officers | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
are caught in the headlights, that they're doing nothing, | 0:48:56 | 0:48:59 | |
but that's their order, that's what they are doing. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
Some police officers, who are not in that cordon, | 0:49:04 | 0:49:07 | |
who actually had responsibility for that end of the ground, | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
they are actually trying to rescue. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
But the majority of people who are involved in the rescue | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
are the fans who've managed to escape the pens, | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
who then realise there are no stretchers, | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
there's no emergency procedure - | 0:49:20 | 0:49:21 | |
they become the emergency helpers, along with some police officers. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
I came out on to the pitch. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
A bloke came up to me and pointed to somebody on the ground. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:30 | |
I thought, "I'm going to make him live, he's going to stay alive." | 0:49:30 | 0:49:34 | |
I think an ambulanceman came across to me, and we said, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
"I think we can get this one." | 0:49:37 | 0:49:38 | |
So we just grabbed him, put him in the back of the ambulance. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:42 | |
I do remember we picked up a police motorbike escort | 0:49:46 | 0:49:48 | |
and we just hared it to the Northern General Hospital. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:52 | |
We got to Northern General, the staff were already waiting. | 0:50:01 | 0:50:04 | |
They'd got the gurneys out, lined up. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:06 | |
Doctor looked for pulse, eye tests, things like that, and said, | 0:50:11 | 0:50:15 | |
"I'm afraid this gentleman's not made it." | 0:50:15 | 0:50:18 | |
So... | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
That devastated me, cos I've never had somebody die | 0:50:20 | 0:50:22 | |
literally in my arms before. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
So I had to take him to the plaster room. | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
There was certainly four people there. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
But what hit me the most was a young lad, | 0:50:30 | 0:50:32 | |
who couldn't have been more than 14, 15, with a Liverpool shirt, | 0:50:32 | 0:50:35 | |
and he was at the very end. | 0:50:35 | 0:50:37 | |
I just thought, "Christ, he's only 14, 15, and he's dead." | 0:50:37 | 0:50:42 | |
I cried. | 0:50:43 | 0:50:44 | |
Yeah. | 0:50:47 | 0:50:48 | |
I went round to gymnasium. | 0:51:07 | 0:51:08 | |
There were just these lines... | 0:51:12 | 0:51:14 | |
..and lines of dead people... | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
..young people. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:25 | |
They were using gymnasium as a temporary mortuary. | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
I... I'd seen some sights in me life, you know, | 0:51:37 | 0:51:39 | |
but I'd not seen anything like that ever. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:41 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:51:50 | 0:51:51 | |
I do remember getting a call from Teri, my mother-in-law, | 0:51:56 | 0:52:01 | |
pointing out to us that, you know, something was going on in Sheffield | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
and she was very distressed, because Andrew had gone over there. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:09 | |
You'd put the phone down, ring it again, | 0:52:13 | 0:52:15 | |
ring back right again, right... | 0:52:15 | 0:52:17 | |
I just couldn't get through on the emergency number. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:20 | |
It became obvious, the longer it went on, | 0:52:22 | 0:52:25 | |
that the only way we were going to get any information at all | 0:52:25 | 0:52:28 | |
was to actually go over there. | 0:52:28 | 0:52:30 | |
We headed off on the Snake Pass, and it was never-ending. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:46 | |
At first, you were talking all the time, | 0:52:50 | 0:52:53 | |
but then all the conversation just petered out, | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
and you just couldn't wait to get there. | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
It was a horrendous drive up there, it was... | 0:53:01 | 0:53:05 | |
And Doreen was going on in the background, of course, you know, | 0:53:05 | 0:53:09 | |
"What do you think?" and all this. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
I was absolutely convinced by this time | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
that there was no way he would've left Stephanie on her own | 0:53:20 | 0:53:24 | |
unless there was something seriously happened | 0:53:24 | 0:53:27 | |
and I was hoping he was going be in hospital, | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
that was my best hope for him. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:31 | |
But I was already assuming he was dead. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
And I was driving through wondering how the hell | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
we were going to get through this, you know. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:42 | |
We were told to stand down and sit in the North Stand... | 0:54:06 | 0:54:08 | |
..looking at this scene of carnage at Leppings Lane, | 0:54:10 | 0:54:14 | |
which is just a few feet away. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
Then we heard that there were, er, confirmed 80-plus dead. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
You're a police officer, you're supposed to, er... | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
Your primary duty is to protect life. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
Not catch villains, your primary duty is to protect life, | 0:54:40 | 0:54:44 | |
and there were all these dead people there. | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
Totally out of my depth. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:54 | |
Totally out of my depth, | 0:54:54 | 0:54:55 | |
as most bobbies were, I would imagine. | 0:54:55 | 0:54:57 | |
Totally out of their depth. | 0:54:57 | 0:54:59 | |
The last thing you expect. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:01 | |
The last thing you expect is people not going home | 0:55:01 | 0:55:05 | |
after a football match... | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
..especially that many. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:11 | |
This Chief Inspector came walking past, | 0:55:13 | 0:55:17 | |
and one of the lads from our serial said, | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
"Sir, what shall we put in our pocket books?" | 0:55:19 | 0:55:21 | |
And this Chief Inspector turned round and he says... | 0:55:21 | 0:55:24 | |
.."Oh, you don't need to put anything in your pocket books, | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
"it'll all be covered in the disaster log." | 0:55:28 | 0:55:31 | |
And then he walked off. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
It's hard to, er... | 0:55:42 | 0:55:43 | |
..articulate... | 0:55:46 | 0:55:47 | |
..er... | 0:55:49 | 0:55:50 | |
..the enormity of a statement... | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
..if you're not in police family. | 0:55:55 | 0:55:57 | |
The enormity of a statement like that | 0:55:57 | 0:55:59 | |
if you're not in police family, | 0:55:59 | 0:56:00 | |
or if you weren't in police family back in them days. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:03 | |
Your pocket book was sacred. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:04 | |
If you saw Billy Smith, a local burglar, | 0:56:04 | 0:56:08 | |
walking down the street at 9.30 in the morning, | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
you'd put it in your pocket book, | 0:56:11 | 0:56:13 | |
"Saw Billy Smith walking down the street 9.30", | 0:56:13 | 0:56:15 | |
because there might have been a burglary round corner | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
at that time, and you've got evidence there to show | 0:56:18 | 0:56:20 | |
that you were in that area. | 0:56:20 | 0:56:22 | |
Well, we already knew by then that there were 80-odd people dead, | 0:56:23 | 0:56:27 | |
and some Chief Inspector's saying, | 0:56:27 | 0:56:29 | |
"Don't bother putting anything in your pocket book"? | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
Once he moved off, Dave Jacques, like, had a look round. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:36 | |
I also remember... Dave Jacques were proper, first-class... | 0:56:36 | 0:56:42 | |
..Sheffield Police Sergeant. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
What he didn't know about coppering weren't worth knowing. | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
His exact words were, | 0:56:51 | 0:56:53 | |
"Fuck him. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:54 | |
"There's been scores of people killed here. | 0:56:56 | 0:56:59 | |
"You're going to put everything in your pocket books, | 0:56:59 | 0:57:02 | |
"from what time you arrived at the nick this morning | 0:57:02 | 0:57:04 | |
"to whatever time you get off, | 0:57:04 | 0:57:05 | |
"you even put in what time you went for a piss." | 0:57:05 | 0:57:07 | |
RADIO STATIC BETWEEN STATIONS | 0:57:16 | 0:57:17 | |
'Chaos broke out five minutes after the game started | 0:57:17 | 0:57:20 | |
'when the force of people in the Leppings Lane end of the ground | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
'forced fans to climb the barriers onto the pitch | 0:57:23 | 0:57:25 | |
'to escape being crushed. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
'The match was halted...' | 0:57:27 | 0:57:28 | |
That journey home was just a nightmare. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:31 | |
'I saw a man having his chest pumped to try to save his life.' | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
As you were going along, the numbers just kept going up and up. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:38 | |
You know, so every time it went up, everyone would just groan. | 0:57:38 | 0:57:41 | |
'..the doctors and off-duty policemen to get to the ground. | 0:57:41 | 0:57:44 | |
'The unofficial death toll here is 74.' | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
You just couldn't get home fast enough. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:50 | |
By the time we got back to Liverpool, | 0:57:50 | 0:57:52 | |
we were just in a state of real shock. | 0:57:52 | 0:57:54 | |
The main story this evening, | 0:57:56 | 0:57:58 | |
74 football supporters are reported to have been crushed to death | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
at the FA Cup Final at Hillsborough in Sheffield this afternoon. | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
Hundreds more were injured. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
Fans rushed through a broken turnstile, | 0:58:08 | 0:58:10 | |
crushing Liverpool supporters against the front of the stand. | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
So me and me father ducked under the turnstile... | 0:58:13 | 0:58:16 | |
ducked under, like, the barrier to get sort of some fresh air, | 0:58:16 | 0:58:19 | |
a bit of breathing, because he was in real trouble. | 0:58:19 | 0:58:22 | |
The next thing the police opened these big blue gates, | 0:58:22 | 0:58:24 | |
the exit gates. And, like, everybody, including me, | 0:58:24 | 0:58:26 | |
just went for these gates, just to get in the ground. | 0:58:26 | 0:58:28 | |
We weren't going to get in the ground otherwise. | 0:58:28 | 0:58:31 | |
Well, that was it, really. My dad died in the crush. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:34 | |
That's it. That's all I've got to say, really. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:36 | |
Can I ask your name? | 0:58:36 | 0:58:38 | |
Brian Anderson. | 0:58:38 | 0:58:39 | |
In the chaos of Hillsborough, coroner Stefan Popper is called. | 0:58:48 | 0:58:53 | |
And he decides he's going to attend the stadium | 0:58:53 | 0:58:59 | |
where he knows the majority of bodies are being held. | 0:58:59 | 0:59:03 | |
He meets up with Professor Alan Usher, | 0:59:03 | 0:59:05 | |
one of the country's leading pathologists | 0:59:05 | 0:59:08 | |
who happens to be based in Sheffield. | 0:59:08 | 0:59:10 | |
The coroner is hearing, as is the pathologist, | 0:59:12 | 0:59:17 | |
the stories of the lie. | 0:59:17 | 0:59:22 | |
You know, they...they can't be impervious to that, | 0:59:22 | 0:59:24 | |
it's on the news by now. | 0:59:24 | 0:59:26 | |
And part of that story is drunkenness. | 0:59:26 | 0:59:28 | |
According to the coroner, | 0:59:29 | 0:59:32 | |
he makes a decision at that moment | 0:59:32 | 0:59:35 | |
that he's going to take the blood alcohol levels | 0:59:35 | 0:59:38 | |
of all who died, including the children. | 0:59:38 | 0:59:40 | |
Because, he says, he assumed... | 0:59:40 | 0:59:43 | |
..that this would be an important factor. | 0:59:44 | 0:59:47 | |
This is the first time it's ever happened in a disaster. | 0:59:51 | 0:59:53 | |
Yes, you would take blood alcohol levels | 0:59:53 | 0:59:55 | |
of a pilot in a plane crash, or a train driver in a train crash, | 0:59:55 | 0:59:59 | |
or even people driving cars. | 0:59:59 | 1:00:02 | |
But the idea that you take the blood alcohol levels of all people | 1:00:02 | 1:00:06 | |
is absolutely unprecedented. | 1:00:06 | 1:00:09 | |
The pathologist agrees to this, | 1:00:09 | 1:00:12 | |
and that is the first establishment of the notion | 1:00:12 | 1:00:18 | |
that alcohol played a significant part in Hillsborough. | 1:00:18 | 1:00:21 | |
We all went down to Lime Street Station to get James. | 1:00:24 | 1:00:30 | |
You're standing there and you're waiting | 1:00:30 | 1:00:32 | |
and you see the coaches coming in, | 1:00:32 | 1:00:33 | |
and you just can't wait to get hold of your son. | 1:00:33 | 1:00:37 | |
The first coach come in. | 1:00:37 | 1:00:39 | |
Poor people were getting off, they were in a terrible mess. | 1:00:40 | 1:00:44 | |
And I thought, "He's not on that one." | 1:00:44 | 1:00:46 | |
So I said to the driver, "How many more coaches?" | 1:00:46 | 1:00:48 | |
He said, "Oh, there's a few more to come in." | 1:00:48 | 1:00:50 | |
Next one come in. | 1:00:50 | 1:00:52 | |
No James. | 1:00:54 | 1:00:56 | |
We waited till the very last one. | 1:00:59 | 1:01:02 | |
I thought, "He's got to be on this one. | 1:01:05 | 1:01:07 | |
"He's got to be on this one." I'd... | 1:01:07 | 1:01:09 | |
I was just ready to hug him. | 1:01:09 | 1:01:11 | |
I was desperate to hug him... and love him. | 1:01:11 | 1:01:15 | |
But all the passengers got off and I thought, "Where is he?" | 1:01:18 | 1:01:21 | |
Teri, Colin and myself were shown to a hut. | 1:01:34 | 1:01:40 | |
It was the most... tangible form of suffering | 1:01:42 | 1:01:48 | |
of human beings that I could imagine. | 1:01:48 | 1:01:52 | |
The atmosphere in that boys' club was... | 1:01:55 | 1:01:58 | |
..appalling. | 1:02:00 | 1:02:02 | |
Everybody in there was looking for somebody. | 1:02:02 | 1:02:05 | |
There was wailing. | 1:02:08 | 1:02:09 | |
Short of gnashing of teeth, | 1:02:11 | 1:02:13 | |
it was a picture of Dante's Inferno. | 1:02:13 | 1:02:17 | |
The level of suffering in that hut... | 1:02:19 | 1:02:22 | |
This is just when we were waiting to find out - | 1:02:22 | 1:02:24 | |
what do we do next, where do we go? | 1:02:24 | 1:02:26 | |
I was basically thinking, | 1:02:29 | 1:02:31 | |
"They're going to take me to a hospital | 1:02:31 | 1:02:33 | |
"and I'm going to find out that Rick's injured | 1:02:33 | 1:02:37 | |
"and I'll be able to sit with him." | 1:02:37 | 1:02:40 | |
It must've been getting near midnight, | 1:02:40 | 1:02:42 | |
and the room was slowly filling up with priests and vicars. | 1:02:42 | 1:02:49 | |
There was more... | 1:02:49 | 1:02:50 | |
..dog collars than there was people. | 1:02:52 | 1:02:55 | |
It must've been half one, quarter to two in the morning. | 1:02:59 | 1:03:03 | |
A policeman come in and he stood on a chair. | 1:03:05 | 1:03:08 | |
He said that we were going to be taken back to the football ground... | 1:03:08 | 1:03:12 | |
..and we were going to look at photographs. | 1:03:14 | 1:03:16 | |
We all got on a double-decker bus. | 1:03:21 | 1:03:24 | |
It was freezing cold as well. | 1:03:25 | 1:03:27 | |
It had been so nice, but it was so cold. | 1:03:27 | 1:03:29 | |
I was pushing and pulling Leslie and asking him, | 1:03:36 | 1:03:39 | |
"Why? Why are we going to the football ground? | 1:03:39 | 1:03:41 | |
"Why aren't we going to the hospital?" | 1:03:41 | 1:03:43 | |
Of course Leslie knew. | 1:03:44 | 1:03:46 | |
We were taken into another room... | 1:03:54 | 1:03:57 | |
..and told to stand there... | 1:03:58 | 1:04:00 | |
..and we would be called in. | 1:04:01 | 1:04:04 | |
They wanted to just take me dad through, I think, | 1:04:05 | 1:04:08 | |
but me mum said she had to go with him. | 1:04:08 | 1:04:10 | |
They told me that I couldn't come, | 1:04:11 | 1:04:14 | |
so I stayed with the social worker outside | 1:04:14 | 1:04:16 | |
while they went in to view the photographs. | 1:04:16 | 1:04:19 | |
And there was loads of them. | 1:04:19 | 1:04:23 | |
Photographs were in Polaroids - | 1:04:25 | 1:04:27 | |
small, very hard to see. | 1:04:27 | 1:04:31 | |
Not split in any race or colour | 1:04:31 | 1:04:36 | |
or sex or age, nothing. | 1:04:36 | 1:04:39 | |
And I said, "Are they all dead?" | 1:04:41 | 1:04:43 | |
And somebody nodded their head. | 1:04:46 | 1:04:48 | |
And we went down and down and down, down these photographs. | 1:04:49 | 1:04:53 | |
And fairly soon into that process, | 1:04:54 | 1:04:57 | |
I thought what I saw in front of me was a picture of Andrew. | 1:04:57 | 1:05:01 | |
I collapsed. | 1:05:02 | 1:05:04 | |
To be honest, I didn't even recognise Tracey | 1:05:06 | 1:05:08 | |
from the photographs | 1:05:08 | 1:05:09 | |
because her face was so black and bruised. | 1:05:09 | 1:05:13 | |
I didn't even recognise her, but I recognised Richard. | 1:05:13 | 1:05:16 | |
Without another word being said, | 1:05:24 | 1:05:26 | |
two trolleys were brought in, and, um... | 1:05:26 | 1:05:30 | |
..there was body bags on the trolleys. | 1:05:32 | 1:05:34 | |
Leslie nodded his head. | 1:05:39 | 1:05:41 | |
They wheeled his body up on a trolley. | 1:05:45 | 1:05:47 | |
He was a mess. | 1:05:48 | 1:05:50 | |
And I touched his face. | 1:05:54 | 1:05:56 | |
I went to bend down to cuddle him. | 1:06:09 | 1:06:13 | |
(Give me a minute.) | 1:06:16 | 1:06:18 | |
I wasn't allowed to, er... | 1:06:26 | 1:06:29 | |
They said he was the property of the coroner. | 1:06:29 | 1:06:32 | |
I brought him into the world, I needed to see him out. | 1:06:36 | 1:06:41 | |
I wanted to cuddle him. | 1:06:44 | 1:06:45 | |
I didn't say goodbye, I needed to... | 1:06:45 | 1:06:48 | |
I needed that, that was me that needed that. | 1:06:48 | 1:06:52 | |
I don't think they were gone that long, really, and they came back. | 1:06:54 | 1:06:57 | |
I mean I knew from their face. | 1:06:57 | 1:06:59 | |
I just said, "Both of them?" They said, "Yeah." | 1:06:59 | 1:07:02 | |
That was that. | 1:07:02 | 1:07:04 | |
Me mum was...a wreck. | 1:07:11 | 1:07:15 | |
After the initial, "Both of them?" | 1:07:16 | 1:07:20 | |
I don't know whether I went quite calm, really, to be honest, | 1:07:20 | 1:07:23 | |
when the police officer said that we had to give a statement... | 1:07:23 | 1:07:27 | |
So, you and your brother went the pub, you say? | 1:07:27 | 1:07:30 | |
A lot of the questions were about drink. | 1:07:32 | 1:07:35 | |
Had me mum and dad had a drink on the way to Sheffield to come to me? | 1:07:35 | 1:07:40 | |
Had I had a drink before we went to the game? | 1:07:40 | 1:07:43 | |
Had we had a drink the night before? | 1:07:43 | 1:07:46 | |
And I was going, "Well, yeah. | 1:07:46 | 1:07:48 | |
"Yeah, I had a half a cider in the pub today. | 1:07:48 | 1:07:52 | |
"We had a couple of ciders last night," | 1:07:52 | 1:07:54 | |
and I'm thinking, "Why am I saying this?" | 1:07:54 | 1:07:57 | |
And all the time he was tap, tap, tap with his pen. | 1:07:57 | 1:08:00 | |
When Teri was asked did he smoke, she said no. | 1:08:02 | 1:08:05 | |
Did he drink? She said no. | 1:08:05 | 1:08:08 | |
The next comment from the police actually was, | 1:08:08 | 1:08:11 | |
"You'll be telling us he was a virgin next." | 1:08:11 | 1:08:13 | |
And this unflappable woman that was my mother-in-law | 1:08:15 | 1:08:22 | |
was flummoxed, she could not respond to that. | 1:08:22 | 1:08:25 | |
When I was giving me statement and they were asking me about drink, | 1:08:25 | 1:08:28 | |
I said, "You opened the gates, you know," I said, | 1:08:28 | 1:08:30 | |
"It was down to you," I was making sure they knew that. | 1:08:30 | 1:08:32 | |
But they weren't really interested in that when I was telling them. | 1:08:32 | 1:08:36 | |
Why are they attacking me? | 1:08:36 | 1:08:37 | |
Why are they attacking my family? | 1:08:38 | 1:08:41 | |
None of the family have done anything wrong. | 1:08:41 | 1:08:43 | |
It was quite calculating. | 1:08:43 | 1:08:46 | |
Everybody was going through the same thing, | 1:08:46 | 1:08:49 | |
and it was just a process, | 1:08:49 | 1:08:50 | |
"Let's get this done as quickly as possible, | 1:08:50 | 1:08:52 | |
"done and dusted with these statements | 1:08:52 | 1:08:55 | |
"and then we've had it, we can say what it's all about tomorrow. | 1:08:55 | 1:08:59 | |
"It's all about the drink." | 1:08:59 | 1:09:01 | |
The vicar took us back to where our car was | 1:09:04 | 1:09:07 | |
and to Richard and Tracey's flat. | 1:09:07 | 1:09:09 | |
All the butties were there for the picnic. | 1:09:11 | 1:09:13 | |
It was just so sad. | 1:09:19 | 1:09:22 | |
And from there we got in the car and Leslie drove home. | 1:09:26 | 1:09:31 | |
The day after the disaster, | 1:10:05 | 1:10:07 | |
Margaret Thatcher arrived in Sheffield. | 1:10:07 | 1:10:11 | |
One of her roles was to go and visit people in the hospital, | 1:10:11 | 1:10:13 | |
the other was to go to the stadium. | 1:10:13 | 1:10:16 | |
Standing there with David Duckenfield, | 1:10:17 | 1:10:20 | |
Peter Wright the Chief Constable, | 1:10:20 | 1:10:21 | |
Douglas Hurd the Home Secretary, | 1:10:21 | 1:10:23 | |
Conservative MP Irvine Patnick, and Bernard Ingham her Press Secretary. | 1:10:23 | 1:10:28 | |
And it's at this moment that the lie really consolidates | 1:10:33 | 1:10:37 | |
in the minds of the politicians. | 1:10:37 | 1:10:39 | |
How do we know that? | 1:10:40 | 1:10:42 | |
Bernard Ingham writes when questioned... | 1:10:42 | 1:10:47 | |
"..What we learned on the spot... | 1:10:48 | 1:10:50 | |
"..that a tanked-up mob had actually caused the disaster." | 1:10:53 | 1:10:57 | |
CHATTER | 1:10:57 | 1:10:58 | |
In the immediate aftermath, | 1:11:04 | 1:11:05 | |
we see the police pulling together at significant meetings, | 1:11:05 | 1:11:10 | |
and those meetings are absolutely crucial. | 1:11:10 | 1:11:14 | |
They knew that the West Midlands Police would be arriving. | 1:11:17 | 1:11:20 | |
They knew that the Director of Public Prosecutions | 1:11:20 | 1:11:23 | |
would be looking for the potential criminal investigation, | 1:11:23 | 1:11:26 | |
and they knew there'd be a coroner's inquiry, an inquest, | 1:11:26 | 1:11:28 | |
and the West Midlands Police would feed into that. | 1:11:28 | 1:11:31 | |
There is no question that | 1:11:31 | 1:11:33 | |
the significance of the meetings that were held | 1:11:33 | 1:11:35 | |
within South Yorkshire in the immediate aftermath | 1:11:35 | 1:11:37 | |
are about getting their house in order, | 1:11:37 | 1:11:39 | |
about actually preparing for the evidential collection, | 1:11:39 | 1:11:44 | |
preparing for actually developing their side of the whole story. | 1:11:44 | 1:11:49 | |
It was clear that he was under immense pressure | 1:12:04 | 1:12:06 | |
to have an initial report out which gave some indication | 1:12:06 | 1:12:11 | |
of what had happened at Hillsborough. | 1:12:11 | 1:12:14 | |
I welcome the inquiry which is about to take place, | 1:12:22 | 1:12:25 | |
and which will undoubtedly reveal the true nature and cause | 1:12:25 | 1:12:29 | |
of this terrible tragedy. | 1:12:29 | 1:12:31 | |
I believe that when it's completed, | 1:12:31 | 1:12:34 | |
the actions of the South Yorkshire Police | 1:12:34 | 1:12:36 | |
will be seen in a very different light. | 1:12:36 | 1:12:38 | |
After the Hillsborough tragedy, | 1:12:43 | 1:12:45 | |
we hear in many of today's newspapers | 1:12:45 | 1:12:47 | |
that the police have criticised the behaviour of Liverpool fans. | 1:12:47 | 1:12:52 | |
Police have claimed that drunken Liverpool football fans | 1:12:54 | 1:12:57 | |
attacked them as they tried to help victims | 1:12:57 | 1:12:59 | |
of the Hillsborough disaster. | 1:12:59 | 1:13:01 | |
They say they were kicked, punched and urinated on. | 1:13:01 | 1:13:04 | |
A lot of the fans - many, many hundreds of them | 1:13:06 | 1:13:09 | |
outside that gate - had been drinking very heavily. | 1:13:09 | 1:13:12 | |
People were... I use the expression drunk, | 1:13:12 | 1:13:14 | |
they used a better descriptive word about it. | 1:13:14 | 1:13:18 | |
They arrived very late, | 1:13:18 | 1:13:20 | |
only a few minutes before the game was due to start, | 1:13:20 | 1:13:23 | |
500-plus were there without any tickets, | 1:13:23 | 1:13:26 | |
and they were pushing and crushing | 1:13:26 | 1:13:28 | |
and very, very strong. | 1:13:28 | 1:13:30 | |
The police officers there were virtually overwhelmed. | 1:13:30 | 1:13:33 | |
People were actually lifting the police horse... | 1:13:33 | 1:13:36 | |
And they're diving under the bellies of police horses... | 1:13:36 | 1:13:38 | |
Between its legs. | 1:13:38 | 1:13:40 | |
Now anybody who does that, I don't care what other people say, | 1:13:40 | 1:13:43 | |
they're either mental or they're drunk. | 1:13:43 | 1:13:45 | |
He said that they were urinated on by people | 1:13:45 | 1:13:47 | |
who were in the balconies above them. | 1:13:47 | 1:13:49 | |
He said they were kicked | 1:13:49 | 1:13:50 | |
whilst they were giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation. | 1:13:50 | 1:13:53 | |
And all I've said to you is honestly what was reported to me | 1:13:53 | 1:13:57 | |
by the officers on the ground that night. | 1:13:57 | 1:14:00 | |
Now that happened to me on Saturday. | 1:14:00 | 1:14:03 | |
Since then, the story... | 1:14:03 | 1:14:06 | |
other people have added to it, but it is a fact. | 1:14:06 | 1:14:08 | |
So I have to accept that what they were telling me was the truth. | 1:14:08 | 1:14:12 | |
It's a question I've always asked people | 1:14:16 | 1:14:18 | |
when they've asked me about the stealing from the dead, | 1:14:18 | 1:14:21 | |
the urinating on the police and all that. | 1:14:21 | 1:14:23 | |
I would say to them, "Would you do it?" | 1:14:23 | 1:14:25 | |
No-one's ever said "Yeah." They all go, "No." | 1:14:25 | 1:14:27 | |
I said, "Why would you believe I did it?!" | 1:14:27 | 1:14:30 | |
Why?! | 1:14:30 | 1:14:31 | |
And if you're a journalist, why? | 1:14:31 | 1:14:33 | |
That's the first question you've gotta ask. | 1:14:33 | 1:14:36 | |
"Would I do it? Um, no." | 1:14:36 | 1:14:38 | |
I'm really glad that my name never appeared on a story | 1:14:40 | 1:14:43 | |
suggesting that happened for two reasons - | 1:14:43 | 1:14:45 | |
one, it didn't happen, | 1:14:45 | 1:14:47 | |
and two, can anybody ever really think | 1:14:47 | 1:14:51 | |
that when somebody's giving CPR to somebody on a football field, | 1:14:51 | 1:14:55 | |
that somebody would go and urinate on the back of a policeman? | 1:14:55 | 1:14:59 | |
It's just... I remember at the time thinking, "That's nuts." | 1:14:59 | 1:15:02 | |
In fairness to those people who wrote that story, | 1:15:02 | 1:15:06 | |
and I'm sure they really wished they didn't now, | 1:15:06 | 1:15:09 | |
that came from one or two sources. | 1:15:09 | 1:15:12 | |
Journalists will frequently write a story | 1:15:12 | 1:15:16 | |
if they trust the source that gave them. | 1:15:16 | 1:15:18 | |
They can't prove it themselves, | 1:15:18 | 1:15:20 | |
but, you know, they'll say to their editor, | 1:15:20 | 1:15:22 | |
"This guy I've known for 20 years, he's never let me down, | 1:15:22 | 1:15:26 | |
"he says it's definite," and in those days we'd say | 1:15:26 | 1:15:29 | |
"Right, let's go with it." | 1:15:29 | 1:15:30 | |
You'll, er... You've got a fight ahead of you. | 1:15:33 | 1:15:35 | |
I think the families realised that more or less from... | 1:15:35 | 1:15:38 | |
..straightaway. | 1:15:39 | 1:15:41 | |
They were drunken hooligans that came through the gate | 1:15:42 | 1:15:45 | |
and killed their own. | 1:15:45 | 1:15:47 | |
Really, that was like a red rag to a bull to me, | 1:15:48 | 1:15:52 | |
because my son loved life. | 1:15:52 | 1:15:55 | |
He didn't drink a lot, he was well-educated. | 1:15:56 | 1:16:00 | |
He was no drunken hooligan. | 1:16:02 | 1:16:04 | |
People do think that. | 1:16:06 | 1:16:08 | |
They think that the people who came in through that open gate... | 1:16:08 | 1:16:12 | |
..killed the people at the front. | 1:16:13 | 1:16:14 | |
But that's not true, three of us came in, and only I came home. | 1:16:16 | 1:16:20 | |
LIGHTS CLINK ON | 1:16:30 | 1:16:32 | |
We were asked to do an officer's report first. | 1:16:36 | 1:16:38 | |
That is, "What do you remember of the day?" | 1:16:38 | 1:16:40 | |
A lot of people put whatever they want in it. | 1:16:48 | 1:16:51 | |
They're trying to express what they were feeling at the time, | 1:16:51 | 1:16:54 | |
what other people's moods were, things like that. | 1:16:54 | 1:16:56 | |
I said what I did, and I put in what I thought was relevant - | 1:16:59 | 1:17:04 | |
the lack of radios, the lack of command structure, | 1:17:04 | 1:17:06 | |
the fact that we seemed to be seriously undermanned | 1:17:06 | 1:17:09 | |
for the job we were expected to do - | 1:17:09 | 1:17:12 | |
signed it, submitted it and that was it. | 1:17:12 | 1:17:16 | |
That was the end of it for me. | 1:17:17 | 1:17:19 | |
My position was as a senior scientific officer | 1:17:48 | 1:17:51 | |
within the mechanical engineering department. | 1:17:51 | 1:17:54 | |
We were called in to look at various aspects, | 1:17:54 | 1:17:58 | |
including the turnstiles - | 1:17:58 | 1:18:00 | |
how they operated, how accurate they were | 1:18:00 | 1:18:02 | |
and what turnstiles were allocated to different parts of the ground. | 1:18:02 | 1:18:07 | |
We were just looking at the numbers. | 1:18:13 | 1:18:15 | |
We weren't looking at how people behaved. | 1:18:15 | 1:18:18 | |
What we found was that the fans from Liverpool had to go through | 1:18:20 | 1:18:24 | |
a far fewer number of turnstiles. | 1:18:24 | 1:18:28 | |
In my report, | 1:18:48 | 1:18:50 | |
there is a graph which shows that from about ten past two | 1:18:50 | 1:18:52 | |
they were coming at a fairly constant rate. | 1:18:52 | 1:18:56 | |
Having seen the number of turnstiles, | 1:18:56 | 1:18:59 | |
it was fairly obvious that crowds would build up | 1:18:59 | 1:19:02 | |
and they wouldn't all get in the ground on time. | 1:19:02 | 1:19:06 | |
We looked at the influx of spectators through Gate C. | 1:19:16 | 1:19:21 | |
The figure we came up with was at 1,800. | 1:19:21 | 1:19:27 | |
The main conclusion was there weren't thousands of ticketless fans | 1:19:27 | 1:19:31 | |
because our total count through Gate C and the turnstiles | 1:19:31 | 1:19:35 | |
was not dissimilar from the capacity of the western terraces. | 1:19:35 | 1:19:40 | |
I was on patrol going through a suburb called Beighton. | 1:19:55 | 1:19:59 | |
And in Beighton is this railway level crossing barrier. | 1:20:01 | 1:20:04 | |
And just as I approached it, | 1:20:05 | 1:20:07 | |
the barriers came down for a train to go through. | 1:20:07 | 1:20:10 | |
LEVEL CROSSING BELL RINGS | 1:20:10 | 1:20:11 | |
In the intervening three weeks, I was feeling really ropey. | 1:20:16 | 1:20:20 | |
Off my food, couldn't sleep at night, | 1:20:22 | 1:20:25 | |
asking myself, "Could I have done more?" | 1:20:25 | 1:20:27 | |
And I just had this... | 1:20:33 | 1:20:35 | |
this weird feeling, and I put my hands up to my face... | 1:20:35 | 1:20:37 | |
..and I realised I was crying. | 1:20:40 | 1:20:42 | |
I was crying without even knowing it. | 1:20:43 | 1:20:46 | |
And then I... I felt wet down my crotch. | 1:20:47 | 1:20:51 | |
And I looked down and, er... | 1:20:52 | 1:20:55 | |
I'd... I'd pissed in my pants. | 1:20:56 | 1:21:00 | |
RUEFUL LAUGH | 1:21:00 | 1:21:02 | |
A big roughy, toughy ex-Para, Sheffield copper, er... | 1:21:04 | 1:21:08 | |
..I... | 1:21:10 | 1:21:11 | |
I pissed in my pants and I was crying. | 1:21:12 | 1:21:14 | |
So I got on the radio, I said, "I don't know what's happening, | 1:21:17 | 1:21:21 | |
"there's something wrong with me, can you send somebody down | 1:21:21 | 1:21:24 | |
"to me, I'm down at Beighton." | 1:21:24 | 1:21:26 | |
And, er... | 1:21:26 | 1:21:27 | |
They thought... "Are you all right, Mac?" | 1:21:28 | 1:21:31 | |
They thought I were in trouble with some toerag or something. | 1:21:31 | 1:21:34 | |
I said, "No, there's something wrong with ME." | 1:21:34 | 1:21:36 | |
A sergeant and a PC mate come out and saw the state I were in, | 1:21:41 | 1:21:45 | |
and they took me straight to me doctor's. | 1:21:45 | 1:21:47 | |
And... | 1:21:49 | 1:21:50 | |
..he put me on valium. It were a mental breakdown. | 1:21:52 | 1:21:56 | |
-NEWSREADER: -Lord Justice Taylor today presented his interim report | 1:22:17 | 1:22:20 | |
just three months after starting his inquiry. | 1:22:20 | 1:22:23 | |
The actions of the police | 1:22:24 | 1:22:25 | |
are severely criticised | 1:22:25 | 1:22:26 | |
in the report. | 1:22:26 | 1:22:27 | |
In fact, it says, | 1:22:27 | 1:22:29 | |
"The main reason for the disaster | 1:22:29 | 1:22:31 | |
"was failure of police control." | 1:22:31 | 1:22:32 | |
On an individual basis, the actions of most police officers | 1:22:35 | 1:22:38 | |
inside the ground is praised as heroic in ghastly circumstances. | 1:22:38 | 1:22:42 | |
The harshest words in the report are reserved | 1:22:44 | 1:22:46 | |
for Chief Superintendent David Duckenfield, | 1:22:46 | 1:22:48 | |
the senior officer present, who's been suspended on full pay. | 1:22:48 | 1:22:52 | |
It talks of his failure to take effective control | 1:22:53 | 1:22:56 | |
of the disaster situation. He froze. | 1:22:56 | 1:22:58 | |
The thing is about David Duckenfield, | 1:22:59 | 1:23:01 | |
he wouldn't wanted to have frozen. | 1:23:01 | 1:23:03 | |
He froze because it was a human reaction, the trouble is, | 1:23:03 | 1:23:06 | |
if you're paid to be a chief superintendent, | 1:23:06 | 1:23:09 | |
then you're not paid to freeze, | 1:23:09 | 1:23:11 | |
you've got to immediately act decisively to save lives. | 1:23:11 | 1:23:15 | |
He didn't. | 1:23:15 | 1:23:17 | |
So, was he the right man for the job? Clearly not. | 1:23:17 | 1:23:20 | |
The report says the officers lacked leadership, | 1:23:26 | 1:23:29 | |
and as it examines the disaster stage by stage, | 1:23:29 | 1:23:31 | |
it finds faults with the decisions - or lack of decisions - | 1:23:31 | 1:23:34 | |
taken by South Yorkshire Police. | 1:23:34 | 1:23:36 | |
In fact, sections of the report are titled... | 1:23:36 | 1:23:39 | |
To me, that was Taylor seeing through the way | 1:23:50 | 1:23:55 | |
in which the South Yorkshire Police had tried to manipulate the story. | 1:23:55 | 1:24:00 | |
Taylor said the fans weren't to blame. | 1:24:02 | 1:24:05 | |
Drink played no part in that disaster. | 1:24:05 | 1:24:07 | |
You know, I think families felt, | 1:24:10 | 1:24:12 | |
"Somebody's got to be held responsible for this." | 1:24:12 | 1:24:15 | |
Didn't happen. | 1:24:15 | 1:24:17 | |
Didn't happen, did it? | 1:24:17 | 1:24:18 | |
The Coroner has absolute independence, | 1:24:50 | 1:24:53 | |
nobody tells the Coroner what the Coroner should do. | 1:24:53 | 1:24:56 | |
And it's decided by the Coroner that he's going to introduce | 1:24:56 | 1:25:01 | |
a cut-off of 3.15 on all evidence. | 1:25:01 | 1:25:04 | |
What that meant was anybody who died after 3.15, | 1:25:05 | 1:25:08 | |
if there are any other factors that might've | 1:25:08 | 1:25:10 | |
influenced their death, | 1:25:10 | 1:25:12 | |
they wouldn't be taken into consideration. | 1:25:12 | 1:25:14 | |
There was no absolute science about that at all. | 1:25:14 | 1:25:17 | |
There was a lot of taking advice from different sources, | 1:25:17 | 1:25:20 | |
making his mind up on the hoof, being influenced by... | 1:25:20 | 1:25:24 | |
senior police officers who were carrying out the investigation, | 1:25:24 | 1:25:27 | |
West Midlands police officers. | 1:25:27 | 1:25:29 | |
It's clear that there is somebody here struggling. | 1:25:29 | 1:25:32 | |
One of the concerns has also been | 1:25:39 | 1:25:41 | |
the amount of alcohol | 1:25:41 | 1:25:43 | |
that has been, erm, consumed prior to the match. | 1:25:43 | 1:25:46 | |
The indications are there wasn't a lot taken into the ground, | 1:25:47 | 1:25:50 | |
albeit we did find 300 cans, I think we counted on the concourse, | 1:25:50 | 1:25:54 | |
-on the inside of the turnstile. -Yes. | 1:25:54 | 1:25:57 | |
But we've had a lot of evidence that there was | 1:25:57 | 1:25:59 | |
a lot of drinking taking place prior to arriving at the ground. | 1:25:59 | 1:26:03 | |
And indeed, we've been plotting that in terms of the pubs | 1:26:03 | 1:26:06 | |
and off-licences and supermarkets. | 1:26:06 | 1:26:08 | |
There were some families who hardly missed a day, | 1:26:18 | 1:26:22 | |
we're talking here about literally months of inquests, | 1:26:22 | 1:26:27 | |
travelling from Liverpool to Sheffield and back. | 1:26:27 | 1:26:30 | |
Going up by train, day by day by day, erm... | 1:26:30 | 1:26:33 | |
And the toll that took on you, | 1:26:35 | 1:26:37 | |
you know, you... | 1:26:37 | 1:26:39 | |
At the end of it, | 1:26:39 | 1:26:41 | |
you were on your knees, really. | 1:26:41 | 1:26:42 | |
Before a jury, he heard evidence relating to each of the 95 who died, | 1:26:44 | 1:26:50 | |
one after the other. | 1:26:50 | 1:26:52 | |
The pathologist would come in and give evidence. | 1:26:52 | 1:26:55 | |
How long it took to die, what abrasions... | 1:26:55 | 1:26:58 | |
When the pathological evidence was given, the blood alcohol level | 1:27:01 | 1:27:05 | |
of that individual was read out in court. | 1:27:05 | 1:27:08 | |
It was all about drink. | 1:27:08 | 1:27:10 | |
We hardly heard our children's names mentioned. | 1:27:10 | 1:27:13 | |
I will never forget seeing the blood alcohol levels of each | 1:27:16 | 1:27:21 | |
of those people, including children, were published in the newspaper. | 1:27:21 | 1:27:25 | |
The issue of blood alcohol levels, the issue of drunkenness, | 1:27:26 | 1:27:31 | |
the issue of crowd-related violence, | 1:27:31 | 1:27:33 | |
despite being discounted by Taylor, now rears its head again. | 1:27:33 | 1:27:38 | |
And it re-emerges because it had been Stefan Popper's decision | 1:27:39 | 1:27:43 | |
to take blood alcohol levels. | 1:27:43 | 1:27:44 | |
People are asking the wrong question. | 1:27:46 | 1:27:48 | |
"Oh, yeah, well, why were football fans drunk?" | 1:27:48 | 1:27:50 | |
Football fans got drunk at every game, | 1:27:51 | 1:27:53 | |
people like me had six pints at every game they went to. | 1:27:53 | 1:27:56 | |
They should be asking, "What was different that day? | 1:27:56 | 1:27:59 | |
"What changed things?" | 1:27:59 | 1:28:00 | |
Because they kept going on about drink | 1:28:00 | 1:28:02 | |
and cos I'd had a couple of pints, I, erm... | 1:28:02 | 1:28:05 | |
I always blamed myself, I was convinced | 1:28:05 | 1:28:07 | |
that we were to blame because we'd been drinking. | 1:28:07 | 1:28:10 | |
I'd got convinced about drink. | 1:28:10 | 1:28:11 | |
So the Coroner, having taken a lot of advice, came to his summing up, | 1:28:17 | 1:28:23 | |
and very clearly was moving in a different direction | 1:28:23 | 1:28:27 | |
to Lord Justice Taylor. | 1:28:27 | 1:28:29 | |
I remember Popper saying, "Now, what we'll do, | 1:28:33 | 1:28:37 | |
"we will read each individual name with the verdicts." | 1:28:37 | 1:28:42 | |
"John Alfred Anderson - accident." | 1:28:49 | 1:28:53 | |
And every name - "Accident, accident." | 1:28:57 | 1:29:00 | |
Just to see the reversal of Taylor, the reversal of everything | 1:29:04 | 1:29:09 | |
they believed to be true and knew to be true. | 1:29:09 | 1:29:13 | |
Stupid, I'm looking back and I'm thinking, | 1:29:19 | 1:29:22 | |
"How could you be so naive? How could you be like that?" | 1:29:22 | 1:29:26 | |
But I was absolutely devastated. | 1:29:26 | 1:29:27 | |
I thought there was nowhere else for me to go. | 1:29:29 | 1:29:32 | |
I came home and I think I sat in a corner. | 1:29:33 | 1:29:36 | |
And I felt like somebody had beat me with a big stick. | 1:29:38 | 1:29:41 | |
They left feeling betrayed, they left feeling that the system | 1:29:44 | 1:29:47 | |
had completely let them down... and that this was the end. | 1:29:47 | 1:29:53 | |
It makes one wonder whether | 1:29:53 | 1:29:54 | |
it's justice that they do want. | 1:29:54 | 1:29:56 | |
You see, they've had justice, | 1:29:56 | 1:29:57 | |
it's been through | 1:29:57 | 1:29:58 | |
the full judicial process, | 1:29:58 | 1:30:00 | |
but because it hasn't come out the way they would like, | 1:30:00 | 1:30:03 | |
then they don't feel they've had justice. | 1:30:03 | 1:30:05 | |
And really I think, er, | 1:30:05 | 1:30:08 | |
I think most people will take that for what it is. | 1:30:08 | 1:30:11 | |
I'm driving home from university one evening, | 1:30:23 | 1:30:26 | |
having taught an evening class. | 1:30:26 | 1:30:28 | |
'We all got dragged...' | 1:30:32 | 1:30:33 | |
Very tired, poured myself a cup of tea. | 1:30:33 | 1:30:35 | |
And there, in my face, is a guy with long blond hair | 1:30:38 | 1:30:41 | |
telling a story about a disaster. | 1:30:41 | 1:30:43 | |
'..they want us to change statements.' | 1:30:44 | 1:30:47 | |
I immediately realised that, A, he was a former police officer, | 1:30:47 | 1:30:51 | |
and, B, he'd been at Hillsborough. | 1:30:51 | 1:30:52 | |
'When my statement come back...' | 1:30:52 | 1:30:55 | |
And as he told the story of trying to rescue people and what he'd done | 1:30:55 | 1:31:00 | |
to rescue people, it was clear that he had suffered greatly himself. | 1:31:00 | 1:31:04 | |
Having gone through the process of trying to save life and trying | 1:31:07 | 1:31:12 | |
to intervene appropriately, he'd been put under | 1:31:12 | 1:31:14 | |
an awful lot of pressure to basically not tell the truth | 1:31:14 | 1:31:18 | |
as he'd witnessed it. | 1:31:18 | 1:31:20 | |
And he used the word "sanitised". | 1:31:20 | 1:31:22 | |
'..tried to tell exactly what...' | 1:31:23 | 1:31:25 | |
And I was determined to find him. | 1:31:25 | 1:31:27 | |
I heard nothing. | 1:31:34 | 1:31:36 | |
After months I thought, "Nothing's going to come of this." | 1:31:36 | 1:31:40 | |
And I just went about my business. And then...I had a phone call. | 1:31:40 | 1:31:46 | |
And we arranged to meet. | 1:31:48 | 1:31:49 | |
WIND HOWLS | 1:31:52 | 1:31:54 | |
We met in Hathersage, above Sheffield, in the Pennines. | 1:31:54 | 1:31:59 | |
A place I knew really well from climbing and walking. | 1:31:59 | 1:32:02 | |
He told me his story. | 1:32:03 | 1:32:04 | |
He said, you know, "People weren't angels, | 1:32:07 | 1:32:11 | |
"Liverpool fans weren't angels." | 1:32:11 | 1:32:14 | |
But he was very clear that what came next, | 1:32:14 | 1:32:17 | |
in terms of the way the police had been treated, | 1:32:17 | 1:32:22 | |
was about creating or producing a new kind of story. | 1:32:22 | 1:32:25 | |
HUSHED CONVERSATION | 1:32:28 | 1:32:30 | |
We met two more times after that, and on the third occasion... | 1:32:31 | 1:32:36 | |
..we were about to say goodbye, | 1:32:38 | 1:32:40 | |
and he said, "I'm just going out for a minute." | 1:32:40 | 1:32:43 | |
And he came back with an A4 box file, and he said, | 1:32:49 | 1:32:53 | |
"Have a look at that." | 1:32:53 | 1:32:55 | |
There, on the top, was his statement. | 1:32:59 | 1:33:03 | |
I kind of... didn't believe what I was seeing. | 1:33:06 | 1:33:09 | |
Over 50 lines had been taken out, other words added. | 1:33:13 | 1:33:16 | |
Phrases like, "Not a good statement for the South Yorkshire Police." | 1:33:18 | 1:33:22 | |
And a covering letter from | 1:33:22 | 1:33:25 | |
the South Yorkshire Police Head of Management Services. | 1:33:25 | 1:33:29 | |
This covering letter used the words "review" and "alteration", | 1:33:29 | 1:33:34 | |
and therefore cemented those words into the process. | 1:33:34 | 1:33:37 | |
That scrutiny of evidence was to actually look at evidence that | 1:33:50 | 1:33:54 | |
could be brought that hadn't been heard before by any of the inquiries | 1:33:54 | 1:33:58 | |
or investigations, but also to revisit the evidence as existed. | 1:33:58 | 1:34:02 | |
By the time Stuart-Smith comes to Liverpool to meet families, | 1:34:07 | 1:34:11 | |
and I go with the families, | 1:34:11 | 1:34:14 | |
they don't know that I have knowledge | 1:34:14 | 1:34:17 | |
of review and alteration of statements. But I held back. | 1:34:17 | 1:34:20 | |
No, there's quite a few here. | 1:34:25 | 1:34:27 | |
No, no. | 1:34:29 | 1:34:31 | |
Lord Justice Stuart-Smith, | 1:34:33 | 1:34:35 | |
the ultimate in a figure of the establishment, | 1:34:35 | 1:34:38 | |
who makes a crass comment. | 1:34:38 | 1:34:41 | |
We should've walked away right there and then. | 1:34:41 | 1:34:43 | |
We didn't, because there was still a fight in us. | 1:34:43 | 1:34:47 | |
Little did he know we were upstairs, and I'd been there | 1:34:47 | 1:34:50 | |
an hour before with me husband, waiting upstairs for him to arrive. | 1:34:50 | 1:34:55 | |
I found him quite patronising. | 1:34:57 | 1:34:59 | |
"Have you got new evidence?" | 1:35:01 | 1:35:04 | |
Well, wait a minute, how can we get...? | 1:35:04 | 1:35:06 | |
You've got all what we've got, | 1:35:06 | 1:35:08 | |
how can we...? They're not releasing it to us. | 1:35:08 | 1:35:11 | |
How can we get new evidence? They're not releasing it to us. | 1:35:11 | 1:35:15 | |
And, "Oh, you will need new evidence for this, but don't worry, | 1:35:15 | 1:35:18 | |
"I will...I will look into your question." | 1:35:18 | 1:35:21 | |
Quite patronising, and... | 1:35:21 | 1:35:23 | |
SHE GROANS ANGRILY | 1:35:23 | 1:35:24 | |
You're walking out and you think, | 1:35:24 | 1:35:26 | |
"This is going to get us nowhere." | 1:35:26 | 1:35:28 | |
Very soon after meeting him with the families, | 1:35:31 | 1:35:34 | |
I took the police officer to meet with Lord Justice Stuart-Smith. | 1:35:34 | 1:35:38 | |
Stuart-Smith was quite astonished that this police officer | 1:35:38 | 1:35:42 | |
was producing this evidence. | 1:35:42 | 1:35:43 | |
I felt he was hostile towards the police officer, | 1:35:45 | 1:35:48 | |
and I made it very clear to him I thought he was hostile, | 1:35:48 | 1:35:52 | |
and he didn't take kindly to that criticism. | 1:35:52 | 1:35:54 | |
In the new year, in February, the report came out. | 1:35:57 | 1:36:00 | |
With permission, Madam Speaker, I would like to make a statement | 1:36:03 | 1:36:07 | |
about the Hillsborough Stadium disaster. | 1:36:07 | 1:36:10 | |
The overall conclusion which | 1:36:10 | 1:36:12 | |
Lord Justice Stuart-Smith reaches | 1:36:12 | 1:36:14 | |
is that there is no basis on which | 1:36:14 | 1:36:16 | |
there should be a further public inquiry. | 1:36:16 | 1:36:19 | |
He concludes that none of the evidence which he was asked | 1:36:19 | 1:36:22 | |
to consider added anything significant to the evidence | 1:36:22 | 1:36:25 | |
which was available to Lord Taylor's inquiry or to the inquests. | 1:36:25 | 1:36:30 | |
The entire country is united in sympathy with those | 1:36:30 | 1:36:33 | |
who lost loved ones at Hillsborough. | 1:36:33 | 1:36:36 | |
But we cannot take the pain from them. | 1:36:36 | 1:36:39 | |
However, I hope that the families | 1:36:39 | 1:36:41 | |
will recognise that this report represents, | 1:36:41 | 1:36:44 | |
as I promised, a most independent, thorough and detailed scrutiny | 1:36:44 | 1:36:50 | |
to examine all the evidence which was brought before it. | 1:36:50 | 1:36:53 | |
I'm now determined to access other statements. | 1:36:59 | 1:37:03 | |
I gain access to all of the police statements. | 1:37:05 | 1:37:11 | |
Following the realisation that they were being held | 1:37:13 | 1:37:18 | |
in the House of Lords Reading Room. | 1:37:18 | 1:37:20 | |
It is such a formal place. | 1:37:25 | 1:37:27 | |
Neat, tidy, leatherbound books, oak-panelled, big trencher tables, | 1:37:29 | 1:37:36 | |
a librarian who was timeless. | 1:37:36 | 1:37:39 | |
The woman very politely looked and said, | 1:37:39 | 1:37:41 | |
"Oh, Professor Scraton, I think your boxes are over there." | 1:37:41 | 1:37:45 | |
There in the corner, battered, torn, ripped, | 1:37:48 | 1:37:52 | |
stacked one on top of each other. | 1:37:52 | 1:37:54 | |
Not the filing system I'd expected. | 1:37:55 | 1:37:57 | |
They were just statements thrown in upside down, back to front, | 1:38:00 | 1:38:06 | |
pages missing, pages in other places, photocopies. | 1:38:06 | 1:38:10 | |
But in no order. | 1:38:10 | 1:38:12 | |
I started to put them together as full statements | 1:38:13 | 1:38:16 | |
and then started to put each officer's three statements together. | 1:38:16 | 1:38:22 | |
And I went through them, and it was exactly the same | 1:38:27 | 1:38:31 | |
as the police officer's statement that I'd already seen. | 1:38:31 | 1:38:35 | |
There was a handwritten version, | 1:38:35 | 1:38:37 | |
there was a typed version - which then had all the alterations on it - | 1:38:37 | 1:38:41 | |
and then a final statement signed off...that was pristine. | 1:38:41 | 1:38:47 | |
You could see, visibly, clearly, | 1:38:49 | 1:38:52 | |
the review and alteration process there before you. | 1:38:52 | 1:38:56 | |
Here I am... | 1:39:01 | 1:39:03 | |
nearly ten years on from the disaster, | 1:39:03 | 1:39:07 | |
and we are finding that the statements made | 1:39:07 | 1:39:10 | |
by all police officers after Hillsborough | 1:39:10 | 1:39:14 | |
have gone through a vetting process, | 1:39:14 | 1:39:17 | |
a review process, an alteration process. | 1:39:17 | 1:39:21 | |
Let's be clear what happened - they were given paper on which | 1:39:23 | 1:39:28 | |
to handwrite their accounts, warts and all. | 1:39:28 | 1:39:31 | |
They then went through an editorial process involving | 1:39:31 | 1:39:34 | |
a team of six officers, established by the South Yorkshire Police, | 1:39:34 | 1:39:38 | |
as the West Midlands Police investigators were coming in. | 1:39:38 | 1:39:42 | |
Those statements were then transferred | 1:39:43 | 1:39:45 | |
into clean evidential statements | 1:39:45 | 1:39:47 | |
which were given to the West Midlands police officers, | 1:39:47 | 1:39:50 | |
who knew...that they were inheriting a process | 1:39:50 | 1:39:54 | |
that, at best, was evidentially ambiguous, | 1:39:54 | 1:39:59 | |
and, at worst, was a corruption of evidence. | 1:39:59 | 1:40:02 | |
And that was the final act for Hillsborough: The Truth. | 1:40:05 | 1:40:09 | |
I'd almost completed the book. | 1:40:11 | 1:40:13 | |
I'd written it in 12 weeks, | 1:40:13 | 1:40:15 | |
and now I had this new chapter. | 1:40:15 | 1:40:18 | |
I called it "Sanitising Hillsborough". | 1:40:18 | 1:40:20 | |
The Sunday Mirror ran a two-page headline, stating clearly | 1:40:22 | 1:40:28 | |
that statements had been reviewed and altered. | 1:40:28 | 1:40:30 | |
And it led to nothing. | 1:40:33 | 1:40:35 | |
Then what unfolded immediately after was the private prosecution | 1:40:37 | 1:40:43 | |
of Duckenfield and Murray. | 1:40:43 | 1:40:45 | |
-NEWSREADER: -'11 years ago, David Duckenfield was | 1:40:45 | 1:40:48 | |
'a South Yorkshire Police chief superintendent | 1:40:48 | 1:40:50 | |
'in charge of crowd control at Hillsborough. | 1:40:50 | 1:40:52 | |
'His deputy was Bernard Murray, then a superintendent. | 1:40:52 | 1:40:55 | |
'Today, both deny two charges of manslaughter | 1:40:55 | 1:40:58 | |
'and one of wilfully neglecting to ensure the safety of supporters. | 1:40:58 | 1:41:03 | |
'The Hillsborough Family Support Group, | 1:41:03 | 1:41:05 | |
'comprising those who lost relatives that day, | 1:41:05 | 1:41:07 | |
'have brought and paid for this prosecution.' | 1:41:07 | 1:41:10 | |
The private prosecution started, and you were up and down | 1:41:10 | 1:41:13 | |
to Leeds every day, families travelling on a coach, | 1:41:13 | 1:41:16 | |
we were travelling on a coach backwards and for... | 1:41:16 | 1:41:19 | |
STRAINED: ..backwards and forwards. | 1:41:19 | 1:41:21 | |
When the jury returned, they acquitted Murray, | 1:41:21 | 1:41:26 | |
and they were a hung jury on Duckenfield. | 1:41:26 | 1:41:30 | |
We get on the coach to come home. | 1:41:36 | 1:41:39 | |
Nobody was talking, it was just this atmosphere. | 1:41:39 | 1:41:43 | |
We've been knocked down before, and we've come back up from it, | 1:41:43 | 1:41:48 | |
but I thought, "There's no coming back from this now. | 1:41:48 | 1:41:52 | |
"That's it, it's finished for me, I can't do any more." | 1:41:52 | 1:41:55 | |
You had to find a way to live the rest of your life | 1:41:58 | 1:42:01 | |
without Hillsborough dominating every breath. | 1:42:01 | 1:42:05 | |
Julie and I had nowhere else to go with it. | 1:42:06 | 1:42:09 | |
We'd been looking for justice from day one. | 1:42:11 | 1:42:15 | |
We'd been denied it at every turn. | 1:42:15 | 1:42:17 | |
I think that was the final moment of realisation that, | 1:42:19 | 1:42:23 | |
for the time being, they'd been defeated. | 1:42:23 | 1:42:27 | |
After Lord Justice Taylor's report, they had high hopes | 1:42:39 | 1:42:42 | |
that justice would be served. | 1:42:42 | 1:42:43 | |
And that didn't happen. | 1:42:45 | 1:42:46 | |
What they found was a system that could not | 1:42:50 | 1:42:54 | |
respond appropriately or fully. | 1:42:54 | 1:42:57 | |
What actually was happening was that they weren't believed, | 1:43:00 | 1:43:04 | |
and all the time it was "self-pity city", | 1:43:04 | 1:43:07 | |
all the time it was, "What more do they want? | 1:43:07 | 1:43:11 | |
"When are they going to get over it?" | 1:43:11 | 1:43:13 | |
I've always called this the endless pressure, and what I witnessed | 1:43:16 | 1:43:19 | |
was the distress and depression associated with injustice... | 1:43:19 | 1:43:27 | |
..that exacerbated bereavement. | 1:43:29 | 1:43:31 | |
Deep, hurtful, painful suffering over a long period of time. | 1:43:33 | 1:43:39 | |
People taking their own lives. | 1:43:39 | 1:43:41 | |
People dying prematurely. | 1:43:43 | 1:43:45 | |
People broken by the struggle for justice. | 1:43:46 | 1:43:51 | |
The price of Hillsborough is not... | 1:43:54 | 1:43:56 | |
..reducible to 96 people dying. | 1:44:00 | 1:44:04 | |
The price of Hillsborough is | 1:44:04 | 1:44:05 | |
the price of institutionalised injustice, | 1:44:05 | 1:44:08 | |
the appalling treatment by some of the media | 1:44:08 | 1:44:13 | |
of the good reputations of innocent people, | 1:44:13 | 1:44:17 | |
the cavalier way in which wonderful people were vilified. | 1:44:17 | 1:44:24 | |
That's the price of Hillsborough. | 1:44:27 | 1:44:29 | |
When I was organising that 20th anniversary, I always thought, | 1:44:39 | 1:44:43 | |
"We've let them down, there won't be many people there now | 1:44:43 | 1:44:46 | |
"because we've let them down with that private prosecution." | 1:44:46 | 1:44:50 | |
The 20th anniversary was one of those moments where, | 1:44:56 | 1:44:58 | |
I for one, thought, "We will never get justice, | 1:44:58 | 1:45:02 | |
"the truth will never come out." | 1:45:02 | 1:45:05 | |
I didn't expect the 30,000-odd people, | 1:45:12 | 1:45:16 | |
nobody in their right mind would've expected that. | 1:45:16 | 1:45:19 | |
APPLAUSE | 1:45:19 | 1:45:21 | |
I'd just like now to introduce the Right Honourable Andy Burnham, | 1:45:37 | 1:45:42 | |
the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. | 1:45:42 | 1:45:46 | |
APPLAUSE | 1:45:49 | 1:45:51 | |
Until that time, no politician had been allowed to stand | 1:45:54 | 1:45:59 | |
and deliver any kind of a statement, | 1:45:59 | 1:46:03 | |
because it is a service of remembrance, | 1:46:03 | 1:46:06 | |
it is not a political rally. | 1:46:06 | 1:46:08 | |
Hillsborough left deep wounds that will never heal. | 1:46:09 | 1:46:12 | |
Its horror is not diminished by the passage of time. | 1:46:12 | 1:46:15 | |
But today, as the Prime Minister has asked me to convey, | 1:46:17 | 1:46:21 | |
we can at least pledge that 96 fellow football supporters | 1:46:21 | 1:46:24 | |
who died will never be forgotten. | 1:46:24 | 1:46:27 | |
The crowd were offended by, not him personally, | 1:46:27 | 1:46:32 | |
but a politician making what they assumed would be an empty promise. | 1:46:32 | 1:46:37 | |
And he asks us to think at this time... | 1:46:39 | 1:46:41 | |
FANS SHOUT OUT | 1:46:41 | 1:46:42 | |
All the fans who'd supported us for years started | 1:46:44 | 1:46:48 | |
a chant of "justice for the 96" and we couldn't stop them. | 1:46:48 | 1:46:54 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:46:54 | 1:46:56 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:46:56 | 1:46:59 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:46:59 | 1:47:01 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:01 | 1:47:04 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:04 | 1:47:07 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:07 | 1:47:10 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:10 | 1:47:12 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:12 | 1:47:15 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:15 | 1:47:18 | |
# Justice for the 96... # | 1:47:18 | 1:47:21 | |
At that point, reflection bubbled over into anger. | 1:47:21 | 1:47:24 | |
I think that righteous anger was... | 1:47:25 | 1:47:29 | |
was overdue. | 1:47:29 | 1:47:31 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:31 | 1:47:33 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:33 | 1:47:35 | |
# Justice for the 96 | 1:47:35 | 1:47:37 | |
# Justice for the 96... # | 1:47:37 | 1:47:40 | |
From that moment on, and I will say it was from that moment on... | 1:47:48 | 1:47:53 | |
that we got a lot more than we've ever had. | 1:47:53 | 1:47:57 | |
It convinced Andy Burnham that he had to push this | 1:48:00 | 1:48:06 | |
personally along and set up the Hillsborough Independent Panel. | 1:48:06 | 1:48:11 | |
When the panel was first in session and we met | 1:48:42 | 1:48:44 | |
with the South Yorkshire Police, | 1:48:44 | 1:48:45 | |
one of the things that became very clear, | 1:48:45 | 1:48:48 | |
and in fact the phrase was used, | 1:48:48 | 1:48:50 | |
"The panel, in its work, would not find a smoking gun." | 1:48:50 | 1:48:53 | |
It could not have been a more flawed assumption. | 1:48:55 | 1:49:00 | |
People started to arrive. | 1:49:16 | 1:49:17 | |
I went and met so many people that I'd worked with for 20 years. | 1:49:22 | 1:49:28 | |
I also thought about... | 1:49:30 | 1:49:32 | |
I also thought about the people who weren't there, | 1:49:36 | 1:49:40 | |
people whose funerals I'd read the lesson at. | 1:49:40 | 1:49:44 | |
People who'd died recently, people who I'd had respect for, | 1:49:44 | 1:49:49 | |
all of them, even people who I'd argued with. | 1:49:49 | 1:49:52 | |
And even at that moment, I felt I couldn't tell them. | 1:49:56 | 1:49:59 | |
Because they were fearful. | 1:50:01 | 1:50:03 | |
HE EXHALES | 1:50:04 | 1:50:06 | |
They were fearful that they were going to be let down again. | 1:50:09 | 1:50:12 | |
When the Bishop got up, and the Bishop said, | 1:50:14 | 1:50:19 | |
"I know what you're all waiting to find out. | 1:50:19 | 1:50:23 | |
"Have we found anything new? | 1:50:25 | 1:50:28 | |
"Three words I will say to you all. | 1:50:33 | 1:50:36 | |
"Yes, we have." | 1:50:38 | 1:50:40 | |
One of the big issues that had always been a problem | 1:51:05 | 1:51:08 | |
for the families was the medical evidence. | 1:51:08 | 1:51:11 | |
We now know, having revisited the pathology on those that died, | 1:51:11 | 1:51:15 | |
that over 40 people could've been saved had they had | 1:51:15 | 1:51:19 | |
appropriate intervention the minute they came out of those pens. | 1:51:19 | 1:51:22 | |
Now, I don't know whether James is one of them 41. | 1:51:24 | 1:51:28 | |
Quite frankly, it doesn't matter. 96 people should've been saved. | 1:51:28 | 1:51:34 | |
Having worked on Hillsborough for so many years, I felt that | 1:51:37 | 1:51:42 | |
nothing would surprise me, but I'll never forget the day | 1:51:42 | 1:51:45 | |
while the panel was in session | 1:51:45 | 1:51:48 | |
that we came across a document which demonstrated | 1:51:48 | 1:51:52 | |
that every single person who had a recorded blood alcohol level | 1:51:52 | 1:51:57 | |
had had a criminal records check run on them by the police. | 1:51:57 | 1:52:02 | |
Their name, their address, their details, the alcohol level | 1:52:03 | 1:52:08 | |
and what they'd been previously convicted of. | 1:52:08 | 1:52:11 | |
That, to me, was the clear indication that from the outset, | 1:52:11 | 1:52:16 | |
the police were determined to criminalise those who died, | 1:52:16 | 1:52:20 | |
to damage their reputation. | 1:52:20 | 1:52:22 | |
I got to work and two of the guys at work said, | 1:52:49 | 1:52:52 | |
"Hey, you're all over the internet. | 1:52:52 | 1:52:54 | |
"I think you ought to take a look at this." | 1:52:55 | 1:52:58 | |
And he showed me the statement I'd made, my Hillsborough statement. | 1:52:58 | 1:53:03 | |
Well, there were two. | 1:53:05 | 1:53:07 | |
There was the one I made... | 1:53:09 | 1:53:12 | |
..and then there was a second one with my name on it. | 1:53:13 | 1:53:17 | |
The one I made had got big lines crossing things out, | 1:53:19 | 1:53:25 | |
entire paragraphs, altering sentences, altering phrases. | 1:53:25 | 1:53:30 | |
Everything that had been removed from my statement was things | 1:53:32 | 1:53:37 | |
where I'd been critical of, er, police command at Hillsborough. | 1:53:37 | 1:53:42 | |
And the statement that... | 1:53:44 | 1:53:48 | |
..had been submitted under my name... | 1:53:50 | 1:53:53 | |
..had been completely sanitised. But it'd got my name on it. | 1:53:56 | 1:54:01 | |
-That's... -HE SIGHS | 1:54:03 | 1:54:06 | |
..when I found out that I weren't the only one. | 1:54:06 | 1:54:09 | |
I just shivered down me back, | 1:54:14 | 1:54:16 | |
I just wanted to shout and scream there and then. | 1:54:16 | 1:54:18 | |
JOURNALIST: Do you have anything to say about what's happened today | 1:54:18 | 1:54:21 | |
-and how you feel about it? -Er, got the bastards. | 1:54:21 | 1:54:23 | |
The weight of what had been discovered and how far | 1:54:23 | 1:54:27 | |
it'd gone and how far-reaching it was, it was like, | 1:54:27 | 1:54:32 | |
"Yes, this IS the truth, | 1:54:32 | 1:54:34 | |
"and people have got to listen now, no matter what." | 1:54:34 | 1:54:37 | |
It had been said that they wanted the truth, warts and all. | 1:54:46 | 1:54:50 | |
And I was able to say, there are no warts. | 1:54:51 | 1:54:53 | |
There is just the truth. | 1:54:56 | 1:54:58 | |
..special courtroom here in Warrington for them, | 1:55:04 | 1:55:07 | |
the hearings will last for around a year... | 1:55:07 | 1:55:10 | |
I mean, obviously, we're keen to be getting going at last, and, er... | 1:55:10 | 1:55:15 | |
you know, as we say, we think the truth will be out this time. | 1:55:15 | 1:55:18 | |
The process has been difficult and it's been lengthy. | 1:55:24 | 1:55:28 | |
It was in session for two years, | 1:55:34 | 1:55:36 | |
there has never been an inquest of this length. | 1:55:36 | 1:55:39 | |
The jury became exhausted. | 1:55:40 | 1:55:44 | |
The families certainly were exhausted, | 1:55:44 | 1:55:46 | |
travelling every day to Warrington. | 1:55:46 | 1:55:48 | |
The survivors, too. | 1:55:48 | 1:55:50 | |
And I have to say that because those institutions | 1:55:51 | 1:55:56 | |
that the Hillsborough Panel had actually named | 1:55:56 | 1:56:00 | |
were so determined to challenge the findings | 1:56:00 | 1:56:03 | |
of the Independent Panel's Report, it was dragged out. | 1:56:03 | 1:56:08 | |
Another attempt to deny the justice that was already there | 1:56:09 | 1:56:13 | |
at the heart of the panel's work. | 1:56:13 | 1:56:16 | |
The jury in the Hillsborough Inquest returns to court today | 1:56:19 | 1:56:23 | |
to deliver its conclusions into the deaths of 96 fans. | 1:56:23 | 1:56:27 | |
We're live at Warrington as many of the victims' relatives | 1:56:28 | 1:56:32 | |
wait to hear whether their loved ones were unlawfully killed. | 1:56:32 | 1:56:36 | |
One of the questions in the questionnaire that the jury | 1:56:38 | 1:56:41 | |
had to answer was question seven, relating directly to whether or not | 1:56:41 | 1:56:47 | |
the fans had contributed in any way to the disaster. | 1:56:47 | 1:56:51 | |
We could have an unlawfully killed verdict with the fans | 1:56:51 | 1:56:55 | |
having made a contribution to that unlawful killing. | 1:56:55 | 1:56:58 | |
That was the worst-case scenario. | 1:56:58 | 1:57:00 | |
I was really nervous. | 1:57:13 | 1:57:16 | |
We found ourselves a seat with friends. | 1:57:16 | 1:57:19 | |
Eventually, he came in, and he was shaking, really. | 1:57:19 | 1:57:23 | |
When the jury come in, they didn't look at us at all, | 1:57:25 | 1:57:28 | |
and I was saying to myself, | 1:57:28 | 1:57:29 | |
"Oh, that's a bad sign, they're not looking. | 1:57:29 | 1:57:32 | |
"They don't want to look at us because it's not good." | 1:57:32 | 1:57:35 | |
We knew he'd have to go through the questions as they went, | 1:57:36 | 1:57:41 | |
and he went, "Question one", and her voice wavered a bit | 1:57:41 | 1:57:45 | |
when she said the answer. | 1:57:45 | 1:57:46 | |
And he said, "Yes." | 1:57:46 | 1:57:49 | |
Question two, and then three. | 1:57:49 | 1:57:52 | |
By the time three come and went, I started to cry. | 1:57:52 | 1:57:55 | |
Slowly but surely, I thought, "We're going to get this." | 1:57:56 | 1:58:00 | |
She was simply saying, "Yes, yes." | 1:58:00 | 1:58:03 | |
Just one after the other - bang, bang, bang. I felt, erm... | 1:58:03 | 1:58:06 | |
And then, obviously, getting to question six. | 1:58:06 | 1:58:09 | |
CLOCK TICKS | 1:58:11 | 1:58:14 | |
It was just totally amazing, the whole room erupted. | 1:58:28 | 1:58:31 | |
When he said it, "Unlawfully killed", everybody cheered, | 1:58:31 | 1:58:33 | |
and it was just a... It was just a great moment, really. | 1:58:33 | 1:58:36 | |
Question seven - had the fans contributed in any way? | 1:58:36 | 1:58:42 | |
I sat still for a bit and I thought, | 1:58:45 | 1:58:47 | |
"I couldn't have written that better." | 1:58:47 | 1:58:49 | |
I hardly even heard the other questions after that. | 1:58:49 | 1:58:52 | |
I think that was the bubble, it burst, and then you realised | 1:58:52 | 1:58:56 | |
what all this is about. | 1:58:56 | 1:58:59 | |
It's not about the court, it's not about that. | 1:58:59 | 1:59:02 | |
It was about the fight and about the injustice of it all, | 1:59:02 | 1:59:06 | |
and I think...then you just cried for them, really. | 1:59:06 | 1:59:10 | |
It was nice to get exonerated. | 1:59:13 | 1:59:14 | |
Fans' behaviour played no part, no part in the disaster. | 1:59:14 | 1:59:20 | |
Yes, justice! | 1:59:27 | 1:59:29 | |
The verdict demonstrates absolutely | 1:59:32 | 1:59:36 | |
just what the level of culpability was. | 1:59:36 | 1:59:39 | |
And yes to question eight, | 1:59:41 | 1:59:42 | |
which was defects in the Hillsborough Stadium. | 1:59:42 | 1:59:45 | |
Yes, that there were errors and omissions. | 1:59:45 | 1:59:48 | |
What we got was just and it was the right decision. | 1:59:48 | 1:59:51 | |
It's one of those moments which will | 1:59:51 | 1:59:53 | |
reverberate around the country and around the world. | 1:59:53 | 1:59:56 | |
25 criticisms directed against those in positions of power. | 1:59:58 | 2:00:03 | |
16 of policing, before, during and after. | 2:00:06 | 2:00:10 | |
They were prepared to live with them lies and still sell them | 2:00:10 | 2:00:14 | |
in the courts. That, to me, is another tragedy. | 2:00:14 | 2:00:18 | |
It just seems... It can't accept the full responsibility. | 2:00:19 | 2:00:23 | |
Today was for as the 96, | 2:00:23 | 2:00:26 | |
tomorrow is for the, you know, accountability. | 2:00:26 | 2:00:29 | |
Hopefully no-one will ever ask me again to admit | 2:00:29 | 2:00:33 | |
that I was drunk, admit that I was part of breaking down the gates, | 2:00:33 | 2:00:37 | |
admit that it was all down to people like me. Cos it wasn't. | 2:00:37 | 2:00:41 | |
That narrative verdict will stand for all time. | 2:00:42 | 2:00:45 | |
All of that could have been done 27 years ago. | 2:00:47 | 2:00:50 | |
This could have been done and dusted. | 2:00:50 | 2:00:53 | |
A lot of our families would have seen the truth and justice out. | 2:00:53 | 2:00:57 | |
Justice delayed is justice denied. | 2:00:57 | 2:01:00 | |
I knew it was going to be a cover-up, and it was. | 2:01:03 | 2:01:06 | |
We've proved it. | 2:01:06 | 2:01:08 |