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This programme contains some strong language | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
In 1979, a football match was played at the Hawthorns, | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
home of West Bromwich Albion. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
On one side, 11 white players. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
On the other, 11 black players. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
Whites versus blacks. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:18 | |
Yes, really. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:19 | |
Stranger still, back then, it all felt rather progressive. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:25 | |
Now, the very thought of it makes you wince. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
You didn't realise that we were actually making history | 0:00:28 | 0:00:33 | |
at that time on that day. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:34 | |
From the journey of coming over here, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:38 | |
not seeing black players, and then we can put out a team. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:42 | |
Everyone was of one mind - "We're going to beat them." | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
So, what does this tell us about how things were then for black people? | 0:00:46 | 0:00:51 | |
We don't want these people in our society. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
We will not abide by the Race Relations Act, | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
being all true white British people! | 0:00:56 | 0:01:00 | |
CHEERING | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
I was a traitor, I was a white whore | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
and he was being ruled by the white girl. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:08 | |
WHISTLING AND MONKEY CHANTS | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
When I was on the pitch, I heard everything. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
They were calling me a coon. "BLEEP off back to your country." | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
You would watch amazing football and think, "If only they were white." | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
And here's Regis... | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
And what can we learn about how far we've come today? | 0:01:22 | 0:01:25 | |
To see Cyrille and then Laurie Cunningham, Brendon Batson, | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
to see them get through, you know that it can be done. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:31 | |
You can do as many of these documentaries as you like. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:34 | |
You won't change what's in people's heads right now. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:36 | |
My football team's been a massive part of my life | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
for nearly all my life. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
Match days at West Brom takes me right back to being a little kid. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
My grandad used to drive me up here | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
about three hours before kick-off, | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
give me a bag of chips and curry sauce | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
and just leave me in the car for three hours | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
while he went for a pint with his mates. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
I'd just sit there eating the chips, doing my homework, | 0:02:22 | 0:02:26 | |
watching the crowd gather, | 0:02:26 | 0:02:27 | |
just getting into a frenzy of excitement | 0:02:27 | 0:02:29 | |
and at about 2.50pm, he'd take me into the ground. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:32 | |
For as long as I can remember, my club's put me through the mill | 0:02:34 | 0:02:39 | |
week in, week out, year in, year out. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
My obsession took root very deeply back in the '70s. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:49 | |
I mean, it's a Hall of Fame. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
To me, it almost feels like a family album. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
Look at that for a strike! | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
Look at that! | 0:02:55 | 0:02:57 | |
Tony Brown. He feels like my Uncle Tony. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
Here's John Wile. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
I wish he was my uncle, too. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:03 | |
A heroic figure. It just kind of feels like family. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
I can't express it any other way. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
Ally Rob - ferocious. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
Getting in some crunching tackles. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
"Crunching" being a euphemism for fouls. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:20 | |
And Cyrille. | 0:03:21 | 0:03:23 | |
Look at those biceps there! | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
Here's Brendon. Look at that body shape. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
Look at the afro. Look at the focus. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
Look at the sweat on his legs. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:32 | |
He's beautiful, and there's the late great Laurie Cunningham. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
That we had so many black players | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
gave the whole experience something extra. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
It made us feel different, special. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:50 | |
I recall matches where we scaled footballing heights | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
and matches where my black heroes were subjected to the vilest abuse. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
But there's one match that intrigues me more than any other, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
that if played today would surely cause an outcry. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
1979 - a testimonial for Len Cantello to reward him | 0:04:19 | 0:04:24 | |
for his long service to the club. | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
As for exactly whose idea it was to play blacks against whites, | 0:04:27 | 0:04:31 | |
no-one at the club can remember. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
Nobody wants the credit or, possibly, the blame. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
The first expert witness for my investigation is a man who was there | 0:04:37 | 0:04:42 | |
and saw it all through his viewfinder - Laurie Rampling, | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
unofficial club photographer for as long as anyone can remember. | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
This is going to be like an Aladdin's Cave for me. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
This way, Adrian. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:55 | |
My word! Look at this. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
This is the first little anteroom. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:00 | |
This is where I do all my work. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
-I love that picture. -Yep, it's one of my favourites. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
This must be one the most extensive collection | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
of Albion stuff... | 0:05:08 | 0:05:09 | |
-In all the United Kingdom. -If not the world! | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
Is there anything you haven't got? | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
This needs a sign on it - | 0:05:14 | 0:05:15 | |
-the Rampling Albion Museum. -The Rampling Albion Den. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:17 | |
So, what about pictures of that actual game? | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
Yes. I've got pictures here. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
This is from my archive of the game. | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
What do you remember about it? | 0:05:26 | 0:05:28 | |
Do you remember the idea being hatched? | 0:05:28 | 0:05:29 | |
I do. I remember it and I thought, "What a fantastic idea!" | 0:05:29 | 0:05:32 | |
Straight away, when you knew what the occasion was about, | 0:05:32 | 0:05:35 | |
you knew you had to get a picture of the team group | 0:05:35 | 0:05:37 | |
because it probably wouldn't ever happen again and it hasn't. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
Do you remember what you thought when you looked through | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
that viewfinder and just saw all those black players? | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
The first time you ever saw that happen. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:46 | |
Wow! It was a photograph that had a wow factor | 0:05:46 | 0:05:49 | |
and I thought, "That's going to be | 0:05:49 | 0:05:51 | |
"one of the most iconic pictures in football." | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
In that era, the National Front still active, | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
there was a lot of people who basically wanted to fight, | 0:05:59 | 0:06:02 | |
whites versus blacks. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:03 | |
But, obviously, a testimonial game, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:05 | |
it's a fun game. But was there any kind of racial charge to it? | 0:06:05 | 0:06:09 | |
If there was, I certainly didn't feel that, | 0:06:09 | 0:06:11 | |
because by this time, you'd got Brendon Batson, | 0:06:11 | 0:06:15 | |
Cyrille Regis and Laurie Cunningham. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
Albion heroes, if you like, you know. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
So there's a piece in The Guardian from 1979. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
It says the local Community Relations Council said, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
"It can only be an innocent mistake. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:28 | |
"I hope the club will have second thoughts. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
"A match of this kind could be used by certain sections of the community | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
"to make political capital and there could well be trouble in the crowd." | 0:06:33 | 0:06:37 | |
There were eyebrows raised by certain people | 0:06:37 | 0:06:40 | |
whether it was a good idea | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
and I remember, I said at the time, "Well, why?" | 0:06:42 | 0:06:45 | |
And even today, I say, "Well, why? | 0:06:45 | 0:06:47 | |
"Why was it a bad idea?" | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
And that's the question - why, arguably, wasn't it a bad idea then? | 0:06:51 | 0:06:56 | |
And why, in retrospect, does it feel so plain wrong now? | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
By 1979, Britain had been through a right old turbulent decade. | 0:07:04 | 0:07:09 | |
For a generation, the West Midlands, | 0:07:09 | 0:07:11 | |
where I grew up and the Albion ply their trade, | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
had been something of a cauldron of racial tension. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
In the white community, | 0:07:19 | 0:07:20 | |
there was fear, bewilderment and ignorance in equal measure - | 0:07:20 | 0:07:24 | |
something our new Prime Minister soon had a handle on. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
People are really rather afraid that this country might be rather swamped | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
by people with a different culture. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
Why should they have our jobs? | 0:07:42 | 0:07:43 | |
If we start beating them up and that, | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
they might get the message to clear off. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
Filth! | 0:07:48 | 0:07:50 | |
With the milk of human kindness running this sour, | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
was a whites versus blacks football match really the wisest move? | 0:07:55 | 0:08:00 | |
To get a sense of how the players felt about it, | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
I've arranged to meet three members of the white team that day - | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
John Wile, our club captain... | 0:08:14 | 0:08:15 | |
That's the goal and it's gone to Wile. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
..prolific goal scoring midfielder Tony "Bomber" Brown... | 0:08:18 | 0:08:22 | |
In goes Brown! Yes, that'll do it! | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
..and our frankly terrifying defender Ally Robertson. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
And a free kick against Alistair Robertson, | 0:08:28 | 0:08:32 | |
which he got the worst of. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:33 | |
Well, I've got three of my heroes here. | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
I want you to know you're still my heroes even now. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:40 | |
My love hasn't waned with time. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:43 | |
So you all lived around here, didn't you? | 0:08:43 | 0:08:44 | |
-One big happy family. -Absolutely. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
Brendon lived here. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
I lived up here. You lived over there. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
-That's right. -But we all met in there. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:53 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
I want to buy you three a drink. | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
-Come on. -That sounds all right to me. -Let's do it. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:00 | |
You're still in good shape, you three. You're moving very well. | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
You've got a new hip or two, haven't you? | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
-But you're moving well. -Er, three. -Three! | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
I'm just getting this. Is this yours, Ally? | 0:09:15 | 0:09:17 | |
Yes, I found that in my dad's loft. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
Just when I see this, you know, I cry. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
There was a semifinal at Highbury. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
That's when you cut your head against Ipswich. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
John Wile being treated for West Brom. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:31 | |
A fairly horrific sight being cleaned up. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:34 | |
Have you still got the scar from that? | 0:09:34 | 0:09:36 | |
Believe it or not, it was very, very small. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
-Was it? -It was just in the wrong place. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
That hasn't been stitched, but in a fight, it would have been stopped. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
We come to Len Cantello's testimonial, | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
the black versus white match. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:51 | |
I remember thinking at the time and I was 12 or something, | 0:09:51 | 0:09:55 | |
I was like a liberal, white, middle class boy, | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
thinking, "Oh, that's really sweet." It felt progressive to me. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
What are your memories of it? | 0:10:01 | 0:10:02 | |
I can't remember that much about it. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
The only thing I can remember | 0:10:05 | 0:10:06 | |
is there were more coloured people or black people in the ground. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
The game itself doesn't sort of stick in my memory as something. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
I think, that year, I played something like 76 games. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
It was just another game to us. | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
I think it was just a way to get more of a crowd, | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
something different, yeah, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:27 | |
and interest because there were quite a few testimonials. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:29 | |
-People get fed up of testimonials. -This was certainly different. | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
There have not been very many black versus white matches. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
That's what I'm saying. The idea was fantastic. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
I came from a small mining village | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
and you never saw a black person up in that area. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:44 | |
And when I moved down here and my family came down to visit, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
they always used to remark on the fact | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
that there's a lot of black people down here. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
I'd never seen a black person. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:55 | |
I'd come down to West Brom and I was in digs in Handsworth | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
and I always remember picking my mum up | 0:10:59 | 0:11:03 | |
and we brought her down Soho Road. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
She couldn't believe all these Afro-Caribbeans. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
She couldn't believe how many black people there were. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
They're caught square. This is a chance. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:13 | |
And no-one could believe how many black players we had - | 0:11:13 | 0:11:18 | |
three of them, when the number of them in all British football | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
barely ran into double figures. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:24 | |
The media loved them | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
and the manager, Ron Atkinson, knew how to work the media. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
He dubbed them The Three Degrees, a nickname which stuck fast. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:34 | |
When those lads come, they were no different to anybody else | 0:11:36 | 0:11:40 | |
because we saw them dress in the dressing room. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:42 | |
You dressed with them. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:43 | |
-You bathed with them. -You saw them undressed? | 0:11:43 | 0:11:45 | |
You'd never had a black friend, never saw a black man | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
and, suddenly, you're in a bath with a black man. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
Little things were said, but it was part of the dressing room banter | 0:11:49 | 0:11:54 | |
and dressing rooms are completely different | 0:11:54 | 0:11:55 | |
from anywhere else, Adrian. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
Do you know what I mean? Shrugged it off and laughed it off | 0:11:57 | 0:12:01 | |
and just got on it with, you know what I mean? | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
-That's the way it was. -With the banter, | 0:12:03 | 0:12:04 | |
you're learning about the language, you're learning about each other. | 0:12:04 | 0:12:08 | |
Sometimes, was the line ever crossed? | 0:12:09 | 0:12:11 | |
You must have seen them angry or upset. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:13 | |
Somebody might have said something which was a bit too much. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
Outside the group, yes. | 0:12:16 | 0:12:18 | |
And I have seen it outside the group, | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
but we'd be the first ones to stand in and say, "Go away." | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
In our lads, I don't think I've heard one person say a bad word. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:28 | |
Looking back now, do you think you feel any different | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
about their experience? Do you ever find yourself thinking, | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
"Blimey, it must have been harder for them | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
"than we thought actually at the time?" | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
I do. Definitely, it must have been. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:42 | |
We didn't realise at the time | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
because it was all this football banter and that, | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
but you don't know how they felt inside themselves, you know. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
It's fascinating. They remember lots of it very well, that era, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
but don't remember really anything about that black versus white match. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:02 | |
That's the white players. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
I'll be very surprised if the black players involved, | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
every single one of them, didn't remember every detail of it. | 0:13:07 | 0:13:10 | |
As these black players gathered for that match, | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
did they have any misgivings about playing in it? | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
Did it feel right? Wrong? Odd? | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
Or just a bit of harmless fun? | 0:13:20 | 0:13:22 | |
Cyrille and Brendon meet me | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
in what feels like a different world altogether. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Their memories of the match and the whole era are as fresh as you like. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:35 | |
I was watching you in the '70s. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
You were living through that brutal time. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
How could you get across the brutality of it? | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
Well, first two, three years as a professional footballer, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
I tell stories, like you go to Millwall, Chelsea, Tottenham, | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
you're getting 10,000 people | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
singing, "Nigger, nigger, lick my boots." | 0:13:52 | 0:13:55 | |
I mean, 10,000 people! | 0:13:55 | 0:13:57 | |
Having three black players in a side in the late '70s was radical. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:05 | |
In those days at West Ham, | 0:14:05 | 0:14:07 | |
just a hail of bananas are coming towards us. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:09 | |
I remember throwing one to Cyrille, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
I think you put it down your shorts and I peeled one. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
But I look back and I'm thinking, "What else could I have done?" | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
Could you show hurt? | 0:14:18 | 0:14:19 | |
It made you angry, but we learned to channel the anger to motivation. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:24 | |
We go, "Right, we're going to show you how good we are." | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
Has he got the poise? | 0:14:26 | 0:14:28 | |
He has! | 0:14:28 | 0:14:30 | |
The hurtful part was that my wife wouldn't come. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
She came a couple of times and said she wouldn't come again. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
She went, "I'm not going to go again, Brendon, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
"because it's disgusting." | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
It's the volume that suddenly is a shock. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
-BOOING -The booing of the black players... | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
repaid by Tony Brown! | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
My kids go, "Blimey, Dad, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
"we can't understand how you've managed to come through that." | 0:14:50 | 0:14:53 | |
But that was our life and that's what we had to deal with. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:56 | |
Either you're determined and you want to make it | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
or you're not and you fade into the background... | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
It's survival of the strongest. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
What it comes to is you've got to overcome. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
You have these barriers, you have these... | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
Either you give up and you go, "I can't take this no more," | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
and you give up or you say, "You know what, | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
"despite these barriers, despite the racism, despite this, | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
"I'm going to overcome this by my ability and my sheer will | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
"and desire to be a professional footballer," | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
and that's what we done. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:26 | |
So when the idea of this game was floated, a black versus white game, | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
without hindsight, what was in your mind then? | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
You just think, "Why not?" | 0:15:33 | 0:15:34 | |
We all thought, great idea, great idea. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
But it was just a novelty and we never once thought | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
-about any of the social aspects of it. -No. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
We didn't hear any dissenting voices. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
There was never anybody who rang us up and said, | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
"Do you realise the implication?" | 0:15:48 | 0:15:49 | |
Nothing at all, it was just a novelty thing. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
-And it was fun. -It was fun. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
Don't forget, we were always in the minority - | 0:15:54 | 0:15:57 | |
from a kid, only black player | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
and, suddenly, this is a whole team of us. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:01 | |
That was one of the attractions of it. | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
We were actually playing in a team made up of black players who, | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
only a few years ago, there were hardly any of us. | 0:16:06 | 0:16:08 | |
Did the game matter, the outcome of the match matter to you? | 0:16:08 | 0:16:12 | |
Oh, big-time. Because for us, it was historic, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:15 | |
to get from the journey of coming over here, playing, | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
getting told you're not good enough, not seeing black players | 0:16:19 | 0:16:23 | |
and then we can put out a team. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
It was great. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
Everybody was of one mind - | 0:16:27 | 0:16:29 | |
-"We're going to beat them." -"We're going to beat them." | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
Some marmalades get some of their tang from added flavouring. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:39 | |
The further we move away from the '70s, | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
when Cyrille and Brendon were playing, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
the more culturally cruel it feels. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
They're quite jolly, really, aren't they? | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
What on earth were the Black and White Minstrels about? | 0:16:51 | 0:16:54 | |
And Love Thy Neighbour, for heaven's sake! | 0:16:56 | 0:16:58 | |
Equal rights does not entitle nig nogs to move next door. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:01 | |
Black people were invited to turn the other cheek | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
and join in the laughter. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
Some found this harder to do than others. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
Up the road from the Albion | 0:17:17 | 0:17:18 | |
are our arch-rivals, Wolverhampton Wanderers, | 0:17:18 | 0:17:20 | |
and in the centre of their defence and that of the black team of '79, | 0:17:20 | 0:17:25 | |
George Berry and Bob Hazell. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
This picture here, what are your memories of that? | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
What is your emotional response to seeing that? | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
It's fantastic. It just brings back memories, great memories. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
-Of a great day. -It was a great occasion | 0:17:41 | 0:17:45 | |
that everybody wanted to be a part of. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
And we also wanted to win. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
More so than the Albion team! | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
It's interesting. The white players involved were very hazy | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
about the whole thing, but the black players | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
absolutely remember it completely. It was significant, wasn't it? | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
Actually, we didn't realise | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
that we were making history at that time, on that day. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
There was plenty of racial strife about | 0:18:09 | 0:18:11 | |
and there was some unease. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:13 | |
It could kick off between black fans and white fans, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
the National Front could get involved or something. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:18 | |
Did you remember feeling that? | 0:18:18 | 0:18:20 | |
No, I think the black fans were still too shit scared | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
to come to games during that time! | 0:18:22 | 0:18:24 | |
That's how it was because with all the violence that took place | 0:18:24 | 0:18:28 | |
and I know many black people who wanted to come to games, | 0:18:28 | 0:18:31 | |
but because of the way the violence was, they just wouldn't come. | 0:18:31 | 0:18:36 | |
MONKEY CHANTING | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
When did you see the red mist over monkey chants, | 0:18:39 | 0:18:43 | |
a bananas being thrown, whatever horrors you had to go through? | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
How did you deal with it? | 0:18:46 | 0:18:47 | |
Did you ignore it? Could you hear it? | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
Yes, when I was on the pitch, | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
I heard everything. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:55 | |
We heard every chant and every racial chant, we definitely heard. | 0:18:55 | 0:18:58 | |
Sometimes, when I was getting the abuse, | 0:18:58 | 0:19:01 | |
I felt isolated in so much as | 0:19:01 | 0:19:04 | |
the opposition players would be giving me stick, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:09 | |
but my team-mates were laughing. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
I was at Leicester City | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
and the Leicester fans were racially abusing other black players. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:20 | |
I cannot for the life of me | 0:19:20 | 0:19:22 | |
see how they can racially abuse other players and it not affect me. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:27 | |
I remember the manager had a dig at me. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
"Oh, Bob, they're just very small minded people. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:33 | |
"Ignore them." I said, "You ignore them | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
"because you can ignore them," | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
but I says, "Me, I'm out there, I feel it." | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
You can see I'm getting a little bit worked up now, can't you? | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
But that's how I felt about it. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:48 | |
I felt completely let down by them. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
We were playing against Watford in the cup. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:58 | |
Right at the end of the game, I went to clear a ball, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
which was one of my trademarks. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
I actually scuffed it and it went to Luther Blissett, | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
who smashed it in the top corner. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:07 | |
That's a dangerous one from Berry. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
Blissett... 3-0. | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
Well, that was a pretty dreadful mistake, | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
an unfortunate error by George Berry. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
The game was finished and I was obviously very disappointed | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
walking off the pitch. We were out of the cup and everything. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:22 | |
As I was walking, this bloke, a fairly big geezer, | 0:20:22 | 0:20:27 | |
he was giving me so much abuse. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
What was he saying? Don't be afraid of using the words. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
He was calling me a black bastard and a fucking disgrace to the club | 0:20:32 | 0:20:37 | |
and "fucking fuck off back to your country" | 0:20:37 | 0:20:39 | |
and "you coon" and everything, the whole lot. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
Everything. Anything that could have been classed as racial, he said it. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:47 | |
I thought, "Actually, I ain't taking that." | 0:20:47 | 0:20:49 | |
So I confronted him and I said, "What did you say?" | 0:20:49 | 0:20:53 | |
He says, "You fucking..." | 0:20:53 | 0:20:55 | |
I just jumped into the crowd and give him a right hook. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
I was a bit of a boxer when I was a youngster! | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
So, you both still seem quite bitter and angry? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
I'm bitter and angry when we talk about the past, | 0:21:04 | 0:21:08 | |
racist things that we had to go through, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
in what was the best time of my life. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:14 | |
It's very well put, that, | 0:21:16 | 0:21:17 | |
cos these were the greatest times of your life | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
and you weren't robbed of them, but they were sullied. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
Mm-hm. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
As tough as things were for the black footballers, | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
at least they could show two fingers to the racists | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
by socking it to them on the pitch. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:37 | |
Up in the stands, their families - | 0:21:38 | 0:21:40 | |
at least those who could bear to be there - | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
were ploughing lonelier furrows. | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
Bob and George's wives, Joy and Maureen, are still best of friends. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:51 | |
Well, I felt like a minority within the football club | 0:21:51 | 0:21:55 | |
because I think the majority of the time, | 0:21:55 | 0:21:57 | |
I was the only black wife | 0:21:57 | 0:22:00 | |
and you would scour the room, | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
just to hopefully see another black face. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:05 | |
Inevitably, that never happened. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:08 | |
So, you would really and truly rely on other wives or girlfriends | 0:22:08 | 0:22:13 | |
to approach you because you'd want to feel accepted. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
One option is just not to go to the matches. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
For that reason, and also I'm sure all the abuse that you heard? | 0:22:21 | 0:22:26 | |
I would want to go. We would have to support him. | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
Here's Berry... There's Richards. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
Beautiful goal! | 0:22:34 | 0:22:36 | |
We chose to live in an area as well near Alton Towers. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:42 | |
I think we were the only black family in the village. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
So, that was really difficult | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
and I think some of the acceptance came from the fact | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
that George was a footballer | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
and I wonder what it would have been like for somebody | 0:22:53 | 0:22:55 | |
who was just an ordinary working class person | 0:22:55 | 0:22:58 | |
and not George Berry, the footballer. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:01 | |
George is, and was, an uncompromising figure. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
Not for him any attempt to fit in, keep his head down and conform. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
You say "George Berry" to anyone | 0:23:14 | 0:23:15 | |
and you know the first thing you're going to hear is, and quite rightly, | 0:23:15 | 0:23:20 | |
I mean, that hair arrangement is simply magnificent. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:23 | |
It was one of the best in the world! | 0:23:23 | 0:23:25 | |
-Yes. -I wonder if the Jackson Five were getting copies | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
of Shoot or something, but it's all... Respect to George Berry. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
And all his as well. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:35 | |
No pretending, yeah. He used to have his Afro comb and it would be there. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:39 | |
It was my job to plait it every so often | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
to make sure we could comb it through properly. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:43 | |
It's almost like dreadlocks. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:45 | |
Interestingly, you didn't really see dreadlocks | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
until Ruud Gullit about 15 years later. | 0:23:47 | 0:23:50 | |
Bob did want to locks his hair. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
-Did he? -But, at that time, the FA would not allow it. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
Did they construct some sort of health and safety argument? | 0:23:56 | 0:23:58 | |
I really don't know what it was, | 0:23:58 | 0:24:00 | |
but I cannot put my finger on their exact reasonings for it. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
But because they were so old school, | 0:24:03 | 0:24:06 | |
I think that if it was a case of making a statement about yourself | 0:24:06 | 0:24:09 | |
and you wanted locks, it was too much for them to handle. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:12 | |
While the racist abuse hung heavy in the air, | 0:24:13 | 0:24:17 | |
there were many random acts of kindness and solidarity. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
Bob went through a particularly unpleasant patch | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
after a sending off with, it was said, racist undertones. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:28 | |
A lot of it came from one time when Bob was playing against Arsenal | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
and things were said to him. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:34 | |
And there's some trouble, | 0:24:34 | 0:24:36 | |
tensions boiling up right at the end. | 0:24:36 | 0:24:38 | |
And Hazell really has lost his cool. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
-CHEERING -And he's off. | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
I was able to keep some of the clippings | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
and the hate mail came because he was sent off | 0:24:44 | 0:24:49 | |
and as soon as he got sent off, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
the goal was scored and Wolves were out. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:56 | |
It was an awful time. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
-BOOING -Bob Hazell going off. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:00 | |
Arsenal winners by two to one, right at the death. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
You got this one. This is after... | 0:25:07 | 0:25:08 | |
This was after that game. | 0:25:08 | 0:25:10 | |
Snoopy-headed paper. | 0:25:10 | 0:25:11 | |
-That's right. -Well, that's not going to be hate mail, is it, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
-on Snoopy paper. -No, no, no. -Just read it to us. | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
"Dear Bob, I was a member of the North Bank at the Arsenal cup tie. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
"I would just like to tell you that not all of those at the match | 0:25:20 | 0:25:23 | |
"shared the opinions of the minority who are giving you stick. | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
"I am not coloured or foreign in any way. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
"Take no notice of any crowds | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
"and answer their jeers with skill and with best wishes." | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
And what was really beautiful about this letter, it's from a girl. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:39 | |
And at the time, she was aged 14 and a half. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
I was really touched by it. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:42 | |
For a kid who goes to a game, | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
it might have been quite frightening for her, seeing such a thing happen. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
I don't know. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:49 | |
Perhaps the most dazzling of all the black players among these pioneers | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
was the son of a Jamaican jockey - | 0:25:58 | 0:26:02 | |
Laurie Cunningham, our third Degree. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:05 | |
He had the skill and speed to bewilder defenders. | 0:26:08 | 0:26:13 | |
Cunningham again. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:14 | |
And have us rubbing our eyes in disbelief up in the stands. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
He was the first British footballer | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
of any colour to play for Real Madrid. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
He was killed in a car crash in Spain in 1989, aged just 33. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:32 | |
Laurie's career began at Leyton Orient, | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
where a statue of him will soon grace that corner of East London. | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
'Today, his family are seeing it for the first time.' | 0:26:44 | 0:26:48 | |
Hello, everyone. Sorry to intrude. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:51 | |
I don't feel worthy to be sharing this moment with you, actually. | 0:26:51 | 0:26:55 | |
-Why not? -I'm not part of the family, | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
but it's 40 years ago I was looking at him in the flesh as a... | 0:26:57 | 0:27:00 | |
You know, mouth wide open. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:01 | |
-None of us could believe what we were seeing. -Stunned. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
I feel like crossing myself or something! | 0:27:04 | 0:27:09 | |
Is it emotional when you first clapped eyes on it? | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
-Yeah. -It's real. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
-It's captured the moment, hasn't it? -Larger than life. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
So there's pride, but there must be sadness as well. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
-Yeah. -He was so young, you know, to be taken like that so tragically. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:24 | |
But not just a great player, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:25 | |
he was influential in a wider sense, wasn't he? | 0:27:25 | 0:27:28 | |
A pioneering figure for so many black players. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
I mean, everybody wanted to play like him. Every footballer wanted... | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
They wanted to get some of his skills. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:36 | |
But they can't, because you can't be trained to do that. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
He would do something, pick the ball up and then that's it. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
Players standing there, looking, "How did he get there?" | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
You know? That was it. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:45 | |
And his personality was different to Brendon and Cyrille's. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
He was quite a flamboyant dresser, wasn't he? | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
He had style. He had a lot of style. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
Mixed his clothes together, his colours together, you know. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
And that is how he was, man. | 0:27:57 | 0:27:59 | |
-That is how he was. -He stood out from the crowd | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
-and you knew it was Laurie. -It must be quite emotional now. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
I mean, you lost him. He was so young. I was just... | 0:28:05 | 0:28:07 | |
It touched me. I mean... | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
Yeah, it touched me, you know? I miss him very much, you know? | 0:28:14 | 0:28:18 | |
-Yeah. -I miss him, man. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
He just went suddenly, just like that. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
Left me the Monday and he's dead Saturday. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:25 | |
I've never seen my mum and dad crying. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:27 | |
It touched us all, losing him. It touched us all. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
It touched us all. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:32 | |
The whole world knew about Laurie's football skills | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
and his friends are adamant he was no less gifted | 0:28:37 | 0:28:40 | |
with his dancing shoes on. | 0:28:40 | 0:28:42 | |
As a teenager, as he was making waves at Orient, | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
he was grooving with the best of them on London's dance floors. | 0:28:47 | 0:28:50 | |
Laurie met his first proper girlfriend, Nicky Brown, in 1974. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:57 | |
Not the easiest time to embark on a mixed-race relationship. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:00 | |
So when did you first clap eyes on my hero? | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
Tottenham Royal. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
The Tottenham Royal, soul/funk night | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
and that was my love | 0:29:09 | 0:29:11 | |
and I was dancing, and some of the moves he was doing, | 0:29:11 | 0:29:14 | |
and, somehow, we migrated | 0:29:14 | 0:29:16 | |
and, as crowds did then, they gathered round. | 0:29:16 | 0:29:18 | |
So we kind of did a bit of a dance-off, | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
where he'd do a move and I'd do move and you have a dance-off | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
in a friendly way with each other. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:25 | |
And then a Marvin Gaye tune came on and we had a slow dance | 0:29:25 | 0:29:28 | |
and seven tunes later, we were still dancing. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:30 | |
And it was just right. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
Seeing through your eyes, | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
what was the experience like of being a black player at the time? | 0:29:35 | 0:29:39 | |
These were hard times, the '70s. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
It was a tough period. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
It was hard, anyway, walking down the road as a mixed-race couple. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:48 | |
I was a traitor. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
I was a nigger lover or a white whore | 0:29:50 | 0:29:52 | |
and he was a traitor, being ruled by the white girl | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
who was only after his money. | 0:29:56 | 0:29:58 | |
So, it came from both sides. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:00 | |
So, how did you deal with it? | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
It depended on the circumstances. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:04 | |
I did a quick risk assessment and it depended on the circumstances. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:08 | |
I loved him, so I didn't want anything to hurt him. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:11 | |
But then, sometimes, a line would be drawn? | 0:30:11 | 0:30:14 | |
Yeah. We went to our favourite takeaway in Birmingham, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:17 | |
along the Hagley Road, | 0:30:17 | 0:30:19 | |
and we'd just got our takeaway and three big blokes came down the road. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:23 | |
And as we walked past, one spat towards me | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
and said, "Nigger lover, white whore." | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
And I said to Laurie, "Leave it." | 0:30:30 | 0:30:32 | |
And he looked, turned and looked and he said, "I can't leave it." | 0:30:34 | 0:30:39 | |
And so I turned round and they'd already stopped | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
and were turning and coming back, anyway. | 0:30:41 | 0:30:43 | |
One of them went to head-butt him. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
It happened so quick. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:46 | |
But Laurie, being like he was, | 0:30:46 | 0:30:48 | |
ducked to one side and cuffed the back of his head | 0:30:48 | 0:30:51 | |
and the man's own force threw himself on the ground. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:54 | |
And then he threw the other one on top of him | 0:30:54 | 0:30:55 | |
and the other one on top of him, Laurie did. | 0:30:55 | 0:30:57 | |
Where one of them had fallen, his nose was bleeding | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
and then he was the one that turned round and said, | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
"That's Laurie Cunningham, I love you. | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
"Sorry, Laurie." | 0:31:07 | 0:31:08 | |
And Laurie's going, "Look at your nose." | 0:31:08 | 0:31:10 | |
And then what? All shake hands, "Lovely to meet you" and off you go? | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
I just don't get it! | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
And that's what I'm saying to you. You never really get it. | 0:31:15 | 0:31:17 | |
Cos then when we did jump in the cab and go home... | 0:31:17 | 0:31:22 | |
you can't really... You don't say anything. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:24 | |
There's nothing you can say. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:26 | |
-Because you can't work it out. You can't... -You can't compute it. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:29 | |
So you'd do things, | 0:31:29 | 0:31:31 | |
like I went, "Oh, no, you've got his blood on your shirt." | 0:31:31 | 0:31:33 | |
So we discussed what would be the best thing to get it out. | 0:31:33 | 0:31:36 | |
And then it's only later on that night, | 0:31:36 | 0:31:38 | |
a few hours later when you've processed it. | 0:31:38 | 0:31:41 | |
And it's like, "Whoa!" | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
What fascinates me, | 0:31:43 | 0:31:44 | |
there's some guy in his 60s somewhere in Birmingham now. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
Does he tell the story in a pub? | 0:31:46 | 0:31:48 | |
"You know, this one time, there was this black bloke, | 0:31:48 | 0:31:50 | |
"I was going to beat him up. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:52 | |
"And you know who it was? Laurie Cunningham! | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
And he was ever so nice! | 0:31:54 | 0:31:55 | |
I wonder if he's dined out on it, yeah! | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
I do. And he probably has. | 0:31:57 | 0:31:59 | |
Or... But maybe that has led to him evolving. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:04 | |
Or maybe he hasn't and he just tells it as a funny story | 0:32:04 | 0:32:07 | |
and doesn't realise what a racist he sounds. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
You'll never know. | 0:32:10 | 0:32:11 | |
Will you? You'll never know. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
This casual racism, for all its evil banality, was only half the problem. | 0:32:15 | 0:32:21 | |
Darker, more organised forces were at work, too. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
We've created a powerful movement out of nothing! | 0:32:25 | 0:32:29 | |
No power on earth is now going to stop this movement! | 0:32:29 | 0:32:33 | |
We'll carry on marching like a great army | 0:32:33 | 0:32:36 | |
towards the Britain of our dreams! | 0:32:36 | 0:32:39 | |
CHEERING | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
The word "nigger" means a person of a black face. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
And I will always call that person of a black face a nigger! | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
CHEERING | 0:32:52 | 0:32:54 | |
The far right were about more than mere rabble rousing. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:57 | |
The National Front waded into football fans | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
as part of a deceptively sophisticated recruitment campaign. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:06 | |
We will recruit patriotic, pro-British youngsters | 0:33:07 | 0:33:12 | |
because we need everybody in the National Front. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
I think there's a lot you can do with a soccer hooligan | 0:33:14 | 0:33:17 | |
and we feel that the very, very fanatical adulation by supporters | 0:33:17 | 0:33:23 | |
with their particular club is a sort of sublimated patriotism. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
SIRENS WAIL | 0:33:28 | 0:33:31 | |
Nigel Bromage says he was targeted and groomed by the NF | 0:33:36 | 0:33:40 | |
to be one of their foot soldiers. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
We meet outside his old battleground - | 0:33:43 | 0:33:45 | |
St Andrew's, home to Birmingham City. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:48 | |
So, the atmosphere in there, | 0:33:48 | 0:33:50 | |
what words would you use to describe it, then? | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
You could feel the hatred. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:55 | |
It was horrific. When you were coming in, | 0:33:55 | 0:33:57 | |
there was NF lads who had gone down to Birmingham market | 0:33:57 | 0:33:59 | |
and they would basically get a massive amount of bananas | 0:33:59 | 0:34:03 | |
and they would then be giving them out | 0:34:03 | 0:34:05 | |
or they'd be giving them out at the front of the Kop | 0:34:05 | 0:34:07 | |
and then saying, "Here you are, lads, take these in with you." | 0:34:07 | 0:34:10 | |
So, how was it organised round the ground? | 0:34:15 | 0:34:17 | |
When we go in, people would be positioned around the ground. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
So you tend to have five at the back, | 0:34:20 | 0:34:22 | |
split to have sort of two corners | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
where there'd be five in each corner there | 0:34:24 | 0:34:26 | |
and then you'd basically start a chant from the back | 0:34:26 | 0:34:29 | |
and then each of the different groups would start to involve | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
and then the whole idea, then, the chant would get bigger and bigger | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
as normal supporters got involved, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:37 | |
and then the idea, then, | 0:34:37 | 0:34:38 | |
it would look like it's hundreds, if not thousands. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:41 | |
And, in reality, it was organised by a core of 40 or 50. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:45 | |
-That's skilfully done, in a way. -Yeah. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
The violence at that time could be anything | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
from mass brawls on the terraces itself | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
and it wouldn't just be fists and boots. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
You know, I've witnessed Stanley knives used | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
and when somebody is standing next to you, | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
and then they have their face slashed with a razor blade, | 0:35:04 | 0:35:08 | |
a Stanley knife, and that just spurts all over everybody. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:12 | |
I was probably here as well. But you must have seen my team here, | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
Cyrille, Brendon, Laurie come and play. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:17 | |
Yeah. And you would watch amazing football. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:19 | |
You'd look at it and then a lot of the time, | 0:35:19 | 0:35:21 | |
you'd think, "Oh, if only they were white." | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
And that was your feeling, if they were white, yeah, | 0:35:23 | 0:35:27 | |
they could be accepted then. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:29 | |
So you monkey-chanted at my heroes, then. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:31 | |
-How could you do that? -Yeah. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
Yeah, I'm afraid I did. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:34 | |
Nigel doth repent. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
He now runs an organisation | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
devoted to teaching about the dangers of racism. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
It's fascinating that it turns out there was kind of more to it | 0:35:45 | 0:35:50 | |
than a load of football fans just being sort of casually racist. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
I mean, there was a lot of that happening. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:55 | |
It was a disgrace, awful for the players | 0:35:55 | 0:35:56 | |
and horrendous for the black fans in amongst them. | 0:35:56 | 0:36:00 | |
But there was also far right elements | 0:36:00 | 0:36:03 | |
intent on actually organising it, | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
positioning themselves around, doing the monkey chants | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
and then getting everybody involved. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
There were dark forces at work, really. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
As determined and noisy and violent as the far right were, | 0:36:17 | 0:36:21 | |
they were on the losing side in this war. | 0:36:21 | 0:36:25 | |
By the time of the whites versus blacks match, | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
relations between whites and blacks and Asians | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
did seem to be changing for the better. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:34 | |
And football, not least West Brom, | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
was playing no small part in drawing them together. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
The Deol siblings lived above their parents' paper shop | 0:36:47 | 0:36:51 | |
just near the Albion. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
It became a meeting point for fans of all colours. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
So this is it, this is where the Deol commercial empire... | 0:36:56 | 0:37:01 | |
-It was! -All change. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:02 | |
Yeah. We used to have "Sandwell Evening Mail" across there. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
There'd be, like, newspaper boards here. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
-Express and Star board there. -The ice cream van was there. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
Yeah, the Walls sign was there. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
It just all looks changed now. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:16 | |
It feels really small now, but then it was a really big shop, wasn't it? | 0:37:16 | 0:37:21 | |
It was kind of the hub of the community. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
Inside what was their shop, | 0:37:23 | 0:37:25 | |
the family take me back to 1970s Smethwick. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
Find the one of you outside the shop in your West Brom kit. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
-That's my favourite. So... -That's what the shop looked like. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:35 | |
-Can you see that? -That's 1977. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:37 | |
-Brilliant. -You can see that pose, that's John Travolta's pose. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
-Yes! -Whatever. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
-Oh, wow! -That's me and Dad outside the shop. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:45 | |
Most of the window was full with footballs. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:48 | |
You know, it wasn't just us who wanted them. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
All the kids bought the footballs to mess about | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
in the park around the corner or in the car park opposite. | 0:37:52 | 0:37:55 | |
Before we get into cliches, | 0:37:55 | 0:37:56 | |
-"it was tough for you as an Asian family"... -Yeah. | 0:37:56 | 0:37:58 | |
I'm sure there were challenges. But you had a very happy time | 0:37:58 | 0:38:01 | |
from day one, as I understand it, your family? | 0:38:01 | 0:38:03 | |
It was just fit in, buckle down. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
-Get on with it. -"We've made this place our home and we are going to fit in." | 0:38:05 | 0:38:09 | |
It didn't matter what background you came from. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
Around here, it was football. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
-It was a religion. -Yeah. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:16 | |
Because it was what everyone talked about and everyone did. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
-It was the glue. -Yeah. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
I bet you there weren't more than ten Asian females in that crowd. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
-No. -No, there wouldn't have been. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:27 | |
You were quite ballsy, weren't you? | 0:38:27 | 0:38:28 | |
There were not many Asian girls there, for definite. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
I don't remember seeing any others. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
That was the nice thing about Dad. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:34 | |
If I wanted to go to the football, as long as he knew who I was with, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:38 | |
-where I was going... -And it was daytime. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:40 | |
He was quite brave, doing that. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:41 | |
He would say to me, "Go to a policeman if there's a problem." | 0:38:41 | 0:38:44 | |
-Yeah. -"Look out for the horses, | 0:38:44 | 0:38:46 | |
"cos they'll be doing all the security. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
"I want you back straight after the match." | 0:38:48 | 0:38:51 | |
Did it have particular resonance in you, | 0:38:52 | 0:38:54 | |
seeing black men playing for West Brom when you're Asians? | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
Yeah, big-time, cos it was someone of colour. | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
-Yeah. -So you kind of felt that that was the change. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
You were the foreigners. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:02 | |
"Look, someone of colour's there, someone of colour is valued." | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
Someone else who's come to this country is doing really well. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
It definitely gave you a bit of pride. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:09 | |
I remember... That's where we used to play across the road, football, | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
and kids would want to be Kevin Keegan or Andy Gray or Bomber Brown. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
Suddenly, they wanted to be Laurie Cunningham. | 0:39:15 | 0:39:18 | |
Even though they were still in a tiny minority, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
with the Three Degrees playing, black and Asian fans began to feel | 0:39:22 | 0:39:26 | |
the Hawthorns was a safer place to be. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
Herville Hector was 19 years old in 1979. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:37 | |
He's one of the very few black men who dared to go to games. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
So, the black versus white game, what did you think when you heard | 0:39:43 | 0:39:47 | |
that was happening for Len's testimonial? | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
I just thought, "Blimey!" | 0:39:50 | 0:39:52 | |
You know, a black team against a white team. | 0:39:52 | 0:39:53 | |
"Let's see how they get on." | 0:39:53 | 0:39:55 | |
And there's a massive buzz around the ground, | 0:39:55 | 0:39:57 | |
the fans were all talking about it, | 0:39:57 | 0:39:58 | |
and it was just great going to the game, | 0:39:58 | 0:40:00 | |
wondering, "Well, let's hope they can beat them." | 0:40:00 | 0:40:02 | |
Let's hope they can beat them to show the black players | 0:40:02 | 0:40:04 | |
-coming more and more into the game. -So, what made you a West Brom fan? | 0:40:04 | 0:40:07 | |
I mean, you're in 25,000 white people. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
Were you ever frightened? | 0:40:10 | 0:40:11 | |
People go on about how the black players got abused, | 0:40:11 | 0:40:14 | |
bananas thrown at them, other stuff said to them. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:16 | |
The same happened to us as supporters | 0:40:16 | 0:40:18 | |
and obviously when we went to those games, | 0:40:18 | 0:40:20 | |
we relied on the white guys that were with us to sort of protect us. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
Did it feel wrong at all to have a black versus white match? | 0:40:24 | 0:40:27 | |
Or did it feel like a nice thing to you? | 0:40:27 | 0:40:29 | |
It felt nice to me, because all the things that were going on, | 0:40:29 | 0:40:31 | |
the racism that was going on at the time, | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
and you felt that there was nothing being done about it, | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
for that to be at the forefront of the football, | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
saying, "Well, hang on, maybe this is the start of change." | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
Increasingly, black players were getting backing from the terraces. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:48 | |
Where once they'd been abused, | 0:40:48 | 0:40:50 | |
banners were now waved celebrating their brilliance. | 0:40:50 | 0:40:53 | |
The players in our black XI | 0:40:54 | 0:40:55 | |
were all about proving they had the talent | 0:40:55 | 0:40:58 | |
and just about the numbers to play in the white man's game. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
There were legends like Cyrille and Brendon and Bob and George. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:07 | |
Remi Moses, who went on to play for Manchester United. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
Garth Crooks, too. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
Others weren't so well known. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
Stewart Phillips was at Hereford United. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:17 | |
Ian Benjamin went on to play for Northampton Town. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:23 | |
And there was a small, timid-looking left back | 0:41:23 | 0:41:26 | |
from the Albion's reserves, I must confess, | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
I'd never come across until now. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:30 | |
Though I'm always fascinated about the views of the famous players | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
and what they remember of that game, | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
this guy has really captured my imagination now - | 0:41:37 | 0:41:41 | |
the so-called Fourth Degree. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:43 | |
His name's Vernon Hodgson. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:45 | |
Just kind of a bit part player, basically a reserve player. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
Career didn't go anywhere | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
and I've heard that he's been a bin man all his life, | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
30 or more years since this game, | 0:41:51 | 0:41:53 | |
so I'd absolutely love to track him down. | 0:41:53 | 0:41:58 | |
And I didn't have to go far to find him - | 0:41:59 | 0:42:03 | |
hard at work on the industrial estates around West Bromwich. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:08 | |
Vernon? Is it you? | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
It's Vernon. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:12 | |
-Hello. -Did you play for the Albion, by any chance? | 0:42:13 | 0:42:15 | |
Yes, I did, yes. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:16 | |
Amazing. The Fourth Degree. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
-Are you the man? -Yes, I'm the Fourth Degree. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:21 | |
And did you play in the black versus white Len Cantello testimonial? | 0:42:21 | 0:42:23 | |
Yes, I did, yeah. I came on for 20 minutes in that. | 0:42:23 | 0:42:26 | |
I had 20 minutes. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:27 | |
We head to Vernon's sister's hairdressing salon | 0:42:29 | 0:42:31 | |
round the corner in Tipton. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:32 | |
So, who spotted you? | 0:42:34 | 0:42:36 | |
Where did your football career begin? | 0:42:36 | 0:42:37 | |
Birmingham City, a chief scout for Birmingham City in 1974. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:41 | |
-How old were you then? -About 14, 15. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
I was the first black professional at Birmingham City. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
What was the atmosphere like in the dressing room | 0:42:46 | 0:42:48 | |
when you had a black player for the first time in yourself? | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
What was the reaction? | 0:42:51 | 0:42:52 | |
Well, it was almost like you get a minute's silence | 0:42:52 | 0:42:55 | |
when you first walk in. | 0:42:55 | 0:42:56 | |
And when I first started for the reserves, | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
I remember the coach jumping up and down. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 | |
And I thought, "What's happening?" | 0:43:00 | 0:43:01 | |
I remember him going, "Leave him alone, | 0:43:01 | 0:43:03 | |
"he's only bloody 16, give the lad a chance!" | 0:43:03 | 0:43:05 | |
And then I listened to what they were saying and they was shouting, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:08 | |
-"We don't want a wog playing for us," blah-blah-blah. -Yeah. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:10 | |
But by the end of that game, | 0:43:10 | 0:43:11 | |
I had people coming up and shaking my hand. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:13 | |
-They liked me in the end. -It's almost heart-warming, | 0:43:13 | 0:43:16 | |
but it would be a nicer story | 0:43:16 | 0:43:17 | |
if they weren't calling you a wog in the first place. | 0:43:17 | 0:43:20 | |
Vernon's from West Bromwich. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:22 | |
Signed by Birmingham City, he was promisingly talented. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
But he did his knee in when he was 17, | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
which, at that time, more or less meant your career was over. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
After a brief spell at Lincoln, | 0:43:33 | 0:43:35 | |
Ron Atkinson gave him a trial at the Albion, | 0:43:35 | 0:43:39 | |
right at the time of Len Cantello's testimonial. | 0:43:39 | 0:43:41 | |
So, what do you remember of the black versus white game? | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
You were playing alongside the superstars, then? | 0:43:45 | 0:43:47 | |
Yeah. I thought, "My God!" It was ground-breaking. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
I can remember having a laugh with Cyrille and all of them. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
We was all joking about, like, when we would run about passing the ball, | 0:43:53 | 0:43:56 | |
we would shout for the ball in Jamaican. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:58 | |
We only joked about that. | 0:43:58 | 0:44:00 | |
So, I've got this picture of you. | 0:44:00 | 0:44:03 | |
Here you are. I just want to give you a hug for some reason! | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
You look a bit lost and nervous, just sort of staring down here. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
Gosh. I think I was worrying about my knee. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:12 | |
A lot of times back then when I played in the reserves, | 0:44:12 | 0:44:15 | |
it might sound sad now, | 0:44:15 | 0:44:16 | |
but I'd have a drink in the night-time | 0:44:16 | 0:44:17 | |
-to try and forget the niggle in my leg. -Right. | 0:44:17 | 0:44:19 | |
In the morning when I'm playing in the reserves. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:21 | |
But it never went away. | 0:44:21 | 0:44:22 | |
It just grinded and grinded until in the end, | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
I felt like I wanted my leg off from the knee down. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
-Really? -Seriously, yeah. -It's that painful? | 0:44:27 | 0:44:28 | |
So, what on earth is it like to have tasted | 0:44:28 | 0:44:31 | |
being a professional footballer and then your career is knackered? | 0:44:31 | 0:44:35 | |
Nightmares for the rest of your life, every so often. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:37 | |
I wake up and think, "I've got training today." | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
-Really? -Never goes from you. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:41 | |
-Never goes from you. -So, you've had a life's work on the bins. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:45 | |
And you seem very happy with it. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:47 | |
Well, as soon as football was over, I turned into, like, a town drunk. | 0:44:47 | 0:44:50 | |
I drank a lot. Really a lot. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:52 | |
A lot of people gave me until I was 27 and I'd be dead. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:56 | |
What got you out of that? | 0:44:56 | 0:44:58 | |
I'd say the bins. | 0:44:58 | 0:44:59 | |
It changed my life, my job has, definitely. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:02 | |
The black players of the '70s, | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
legends and unknowns alike, were pioneers. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:10 | |
They forced the door ajar for the likes of Ian Wright and Dion Dublin | 0:45:12 | 0:45:18 | |
in the '90s, with anger to burn, to kick that door right down. | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
So, what's your response when you see that from 1979? | 0:45:28 | 0:45:31 | |
-Unbelievable. -Hairstyles! Hairy afros! | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
You're a teenager in the '70s. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:36 | |
What did watching the Three Degrees mean to you? | 0:45:36 | 0:45:38 | |
Well, it was simply inspiring and Cyrille Regis was the one | 0:45:38 | 0:45:42 | |
because of the goal he scored that used to start Match Of The Day. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
-Smashed it home. -You heard him hit the ball, strike the ball. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:49 | |
Lovely piece of control by Regis. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:51 | |
Oh, and what a great shot! | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
Oh, one of the goals of the season! Cyrille Regis! | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
Laurie Cunningham got his second with this header from a corner. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
4-0. | 0:46:02 | 0:46:04 | |
I think with Laurie, | 0:46:04 | 0:46:05 | |
this guy is one of the best I've ever seen | 0:46:05 | 0:46:08 | |
in respect of left foot, right foot, pace. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
Still with Cunningham. Oh, he did so well there. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
My team was West Brom, only because of the Three Degrees. | 0:46:13 | 0:46:16 | |
They were opening new doors for black players, black people, | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
to try something new. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:20 | |
If he can do it, I'm going to have a go. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:22 | |
From Cyrille Regis... | 0:46:22 | 0:46:23 | |
To see Cyrille, Laurie Cunningham and Brendon Batson get through, | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
you know that it can be done. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:29 | |
You know it's hard, but you knew that there was people | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
that were an exception to the rule. | 0:46:32 | 0:46:34 | |
If you're good enough, you can get there, as hard as it is. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:36 | |
The players I've talked to from that era are different to you two. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:39 | |
Famously, Cyrille had a lot of bananas thrown at him. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:42 | |
Cyrille picked one up and ate one. In a million, million years, | 0:46:42 | 0:46:46 | |
I can't imagine you doing that. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:47 | |
I came rough and raw. | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
I was still fighting in car parks at 19, 20, 21 before I got to Palace. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
And all of a sudden, I've gone from a builder | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
to a professional footballer and I would get the ball for a throw-in | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
and that, and you're getting vitriolic abuse, there to here, | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
and you're thinking to yourself, "If I ever saw you..." | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
You know what I mean? That's what I'm thinking. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
Whereas Cyrille and all of them lot, | 0:47:08 | 0:47:11 | |
it was literally like a Martin Luther King. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
-Turn the other cheek. -But you're not Martin Luther King, then. | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
No, I was Malcolm X at them times, you know what I mean? | 0:47:17 | 0:47:19 | |
I didn't want that to happen to me. I didn't want that. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:22 | |
Ian and Dion's generation marked the transition from black footballers | 0:47:24 | 0:47:29 | |
being a shining if beleaguered minority | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
to an era when they are merely the norm. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
In 1993, Kick It Out was started to try to tackle racism in football. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:40 | |
That year, Paul Ince became the first black player | 0:47:40 | 0:47:43 | |
to captain England. | 0:47:43 | 0:47:46 | |
By the turn of the century, | 0:47:46 | 0:47:47 | |
around 10% of professional footballers in England were black | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
and black culture became a big part of the game - | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
a far cry from 1979 when the FA told Bob Hazell, | 0:47:54 | 0:47:58 | |
"No, you can't have dreadlocks." | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
Now, as the most marketable man on the planet showed, | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
you can do what you like with your hair, whatever colour you were. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:08 | |
So, what about culturally? | 0:48:08 | 0:48:09 | |
I imagine that white players of that era | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
listen to Elton John and Billy Joel and Neil Diamond | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
and stuff like that. What were you listening to? | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
Did you change anything? | 0:48:17 | 0:48:18 | |
I was going to the Wag, going to Crazy Larry's, Brown's, | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
listening to soul and funk. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
But were you bringing the white boys with you? | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
They were following our lead. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
They'd be going, "What's this rubbish?" | 0:48:29 | 0:48:31 | |
And when you got in their car to go to training, | 0:48:31 | 0:48:33 | |
they're playing that rubbish in their car. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:35 | |
So, culturally, you brought new music into the dressing room. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
What about goal celebrations? | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
You know what? I think Shearer, Al, he copied one of my celebrations. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:49 | |
-How did that celebration go? -I scored a goal and done this dance. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
And I saw Al score a goal where he'd done something, | 0:48:56 | 0:49:00 | |
where it wasn't his normal five finger, | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
right arm up, bent like this. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:05 | |
He'd done something like... | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
-I saw it. -He tried to copy you? | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
When I saw it, I laughed at him. It was only the other day. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:12 | |
I was like, "Al, I'm sure I saw you do a celebration." | 0:49:12 | 0:49:15 | |
-"No, I didn't!" -Did he remember? -Course he remembered! | 0:49:15 | 0:49:19 | |
Today, around 30% of professional footballers in Britain are black. | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
Many of them are among the brightest stars in the game's galaxy. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:31 | |
As for racist chanting, if it happens now, | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
it tends to make national, even international news. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
So, problem solved? | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
Or perhaps not. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:46 | |
Jason Roberts is Cyrille Regis' nephew. | 0:49:46 | 0:49:49 | |
Racism sorted? | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
Job done? | 0:49:51 | 0:49:53 | |
Not for Jason. Not a bit of it. | 0:49:53 | 0:49:55 | |
So, when you started playing, | 0:49:55 | 0:49:57 | |
the days of monkey chanting were long gone. | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
When did you first come across blatant racism? | 0:50:00 | 0:50:04 | |
One thing that really changed the way it worked | 0:50:04 | 0:50:06 | |
was Twitter and online and the internet, | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
because that was when you were able | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
to receive abuse in a very direct way. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:14 | |
You literally had to look at that. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
On social media, people are emboldened. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:18 | |
They're in their room by themselves, they're not engaging with you | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
and it's much easier to show their true feelings. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
And their true feelings is they tweet me | 0:50:24 | 0:50:26 | |
and say I'm a fucking nigger or I'm this, or I'm that, | 0:50:26 | 0:50:28 | |
or my family are this. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:29 | |
What kind of thing? Don't spare us. What kind of things have you...? | 0:50:29 | 0:50:32 | |
I mean, black bastard, you know, fucking nigger, whatever it may be. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:36 | |
-"Go home". -Yeah, all of that kind of stuff. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:38 | |
So we have the Twitter terrace, then. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
The racist terrace is on Twitter now. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:44 | |
Absolutely. It kind of felt like people's feelings, | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
they knew they couldn't vent them on match day, | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
so they find a way to be able to voice their displeasure at you | 0:50:49 | 0:50:53 | |
or how they felt about your culture or your race | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
on their phones or at their computers at home. | 0:50:55 | 0:50:57 | |
Did you think that'd gone? | 0:50:57 | 0:50:58 | |
Did you think that had disappeared from society | 0:50:58 | 0:51:00 | |
until it came up on Twitter? Because I kind of thought it had. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:02 | |
I can't believe, still, people are saying it. | 0:51:02 | 0:51:04 | |
I have to be honest - from the black players' perspective, | 0:51:04 | 0:51:06 | |
it was somewhat of a unifying experience because all of us | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
were going through this thing in front of each other. | 0:51:09 | 0:51:11 | |
And I think it's sort of told the truth that, | 0:51:11 | 0:51:13 | |
no matter what you are, whether you were a Premier League footballer | 0:51:13 | 0:51:16 | |
or a bus driver or a janitor, the fact is, | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
you were just a black bastard at the end of the day | 0:51:18 | 0:51:20 | |
and this was the forum where we all shared that experience. | 0:51:20 | 0:51:23 | |
No-one's saying things aren't miles better. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:29 | |
But neither can anyone pretend | 0:51:29 | 0:51:31 | |
old school racism isn't alive and well on social media. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:34 | |
And while every other player is black, | 0:51:34 | 0:51:37 | |
what does it say about the game that such a tiny minority of black men | 0:51:37 | 0:51:40 | |
are to be found in dugouts or boardrooms? | 0:51:40 | 0:51:43 | |
Les Ferdinand is director of football at Queens Park Rangers. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:48 | |
One of the very few black men in such a role in this country. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:52 | |
To cut straight to the chase, then, a third of the Premier League, | 0:51:52 | 0:51:54 | |
for example, is black. | 0:51:54 | 0:51:56 | |
-Mm-hm. -And none of the managers are, and hardly any of the coaches, | 0:51:56 | 0:52:00 | |
in the Premier League, really, that I can think of. | 0:52:00 | 0:52:02 | |
You're about the only black bloke | 0:52:02 | 0:52:05 | |
in directors boxes all over the country. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
Yeah, in most of them, yeah. | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
When I look now, I don't know how many black players | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
have tried to get into roles as directors of football. | 0:52:12 | 0:52:15 | |
I'm not sure there's too many, because perhaps they feel, | 0:52:15 | 0:52:18 | |
like management, like coaching, | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
that...that door won't be open for them. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
And, you know... I was once asked by someone at the FA, | 0:52:25 | 0:52:28 | |
"Is there a problem with black players believing | 0:52:28 | 0:52:32 | |
"that they won't get an opportunity to be managers and coaches?" | 0:52:32 | 0:52:36 | |
And I said, "The mere fact you're asking me that question, | 0:52:36 | 0:52:38 | |
"you know there's a problem." | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
So he said, "Well, this is what we're trying to change." | 0:52:41 | 0:52:44 | |
And that was in...1998. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:49 | |
Hardly anything's changed. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
Exactly. And we're now in 2016. | 0:52:54 | 0:52:56 | |
So, what's it going to take? | 0:52:57 | 0:52:59 | |
We won't be able to change boardrooms now. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:01 | |
Don't matter how many programmes we do. | 0:53:01 | 0:53:03 | |
We ain't going to be able to change boardrooms now. | 0:53:03 | 0:53:05 | |
It's years down the line that this is going to happen, | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
this is where the change is going to take place. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:09 | |
You can do as many of these documentaries as you like. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:12 | |
You ain't changing that. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:13 | |
You ain't changing what's in people's heads right now. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:16 | |
My journey back into the weirdly monochrome world | 0:53:22 | 0:53:25 | |
of 1979's whites versus blacks match is nearly at an end. | 0:53:25 | 0:53:30 | |
Ever since I was a little kid... | 0:53:35 | 0:53:38 | |
empty football grounds, obviously especially this one, | 0:53:38 | 0:53:41 | |
absolutely transfixed me. | 0:53:41 | 0:53:44 | |
It's like you can smell, you can feel | 0:53:44 | 0:53:48 | |
the joys and horrors of all the years. | 0:53:48 | 0:53:51 | |
I just get slightly overwhelmed. | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
It's particularly moving today, | 0:53:53 | 0:53:54 | |
because having become slightly obsessed | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
with this testimonial we've been talking about, | 0:53:57 | 0:53:59 | |
black versus white, we're having a bit of a reunion. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
We've tried to get hold of as many players who were here that day | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
to come along and some of the supporters, too. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:08 | |
I can't wait to see who turns up. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:11 | |
'First to arrive are Cyrille and Brendan.' | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
Hello, how you doing? | 0:54:16 | 0:54:19 | |
-All right. -Better for seeing you. -Nice to see you. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
What do you feel when you're here? | 0:54:21 | 0:54:22 | |
Look at the pitch, you know, you get itchy feet. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:26 | |
I do, anyway. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:27 | |
'Then Tony "Bomber" Brown and Ally Robertson.' | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
Big man! | 0:54:32 | 0:54:35 | |
You all right? | 0:54:35 | 0:54:36 | |
'Next, Vernon Hodgson.' | 0:54:36 | 0:54:37 | |
It's the fourth Degree. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
-Vernon, how are you, mate? -Nice to see you. | 0:54:41 | 0:54:43 | |
'Ian Benjamin and Stuart Phillips.' | 0:54:45 | 0:54:47 | |
Just this, look. Here you are, on here. | 0:54:49 | 0:54:51 | |
You just, you look so sort of... | 0:54:51 | 0:54:53 | |
If you actually looked closer to that... | 0:54:53 | 0:54:56 | |
-Yeah? -..I am looking down at Cyrille and Laurie Cunningham and thinking, | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
"What the hell am I doing here?" | 0:54:59 | 0:55:01 | |
-Is that right? -It was just amazing to be there. | 0:55:01 | 0:55:05 | |
Hello, mate. How you doing? | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
'Herville Hector turns up to represent the black fans.' | 0:55:07 | 0:55:10 | |
'And finally, Laurie Rampling, Albion's photographer.' | 0:55:11 | 0:55:14 | |
And to thank them for turning up at this little reunion, | 0:55:22 | 0:55:25 | |
'I've a little something for them.' | 0:55:25 | 0:55:28 | |
Here, you are. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:29 | |
I've just got something to show you on here, if you... | 0:55:29 | 0:55:32 | |
'I've got hold of some news footage from the match that day. | 0:55:32 | 0:55:35 | |
'Suspecting, rightly, as it turns out, | 0:55:35 | 0:55:37 | |
'that none of them have seen it before.' | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
OK, everyone, have a look at this. | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
-NEWSREADER: -'The black players have been mustered | 0:55:42 | 0:55:45 | |
'from seven different English League clubs.' | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
Ten years ago, you'd have been lucky to find half a dozen throughout the country. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
But, today, they feature in such unlikely sides as Hereford United. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:55 | |
Albion's Len Cantello was celebrating ten years with the club, | 0:55:55 | 0:55:58 | |
and had in his line-up old favourites like Johnny Giles. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
But, as we were to discover, | 0:56:01 | 0:56:02 | |
the collective skills of the All Blacks proved too much on the night. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:05 | |
Cunningham opened the scoring. A neat shot from 20 yards. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:11 | |
-There you go! -Hooray! | 0:56:14 | 0:56:16 | |
'Cantello's XI took the lead, but Garth Crooks levelled the score.' | 0:56:19 | 0:56:22 | |
It had been an entertaining night and when it looked as if the game | 0:56:27 | 0:56:30 | |
would end in a draw, Stuart Phillips of Hereford United made it 3-2. | 0:56:30 | 0:56:34 | |
The innovation had proved attractive to the 7,000 who'd turned up | 0:56:37 | 0:56:40 | |
and had given an insight into the deepening reservoir | 0:56:40 | 0:56:43 | |
of black talent within the English game. | 0:56:43 | 0:56:45 | |
That was fantastic. I'd never seen that footage. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
Just a feeling, speaking personally, I just had a feeling, | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
this is special. It's unique. | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
-Have you seen that, Cyrille? -No, it's the first time. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:57 | |
A bit of history like that, | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
-it's fantastic. -Have you seen that before? | 0:57:00 | 0:57:02 | |
-No, never seen that before. -Must be strange. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:05 | |
Don't know at the time that it was going to be something, | 0:57:05 | 0:57:07 | |
like, so important. | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
I just basically turned up with my boots. | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
I think it's only now, just looking back, | 0:57:13 | 0:57:15 | |
on the occasion that I realise the importance of it. | 0:57:15 | 0:57:19 | |
What I recollect, Adrian, actually, after all these years in the game, | 0:57:19 | 0:57:24 | |
before the game, in the dressing room, we were told to let them win. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:28 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:57:28 | 0:57:33 | |
Only joking! | 0:57:33 | 0:57:35 | |
'So the black team got the victory they wanted...' | 0:57:41 | 0:57:43 | |
Oh, you hear the creaks! | 0:57:43 | 0:57:46 | |
'..And Laurie gets another memorable picture for his archive.' | 0:57:46 | 0:57:51 | |
That's it, job done. Got them together. | 0:57:53 | 0:57:55 | |
I tell you what I won't miss, fascinating though this has been, | 0:57:55 | 0:57:58 | |
I'm sick of talking about people in terms of whites and blacks. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:01 | |
So I don't have to do that now for a while. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:03 | |
There are reasons to believe there will be a happy ending | 0:58:05 | 0:58:08 | |
'to the story of black footballers in Britain, | 0:58:08 | 0:58:10 | |
'even if we are further away from it than I thought.' | 0:58:10 | 0:58:13 | |
'Football can often feel way behind the rest of society. | 0:58:14 | 0:58:18 | |
'On days like today, though, | 0:58:18 | 0:58:19 | |
'it feels like it may actually always have been a few steps ahead.' | 0:58:19 | 0:58:23 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:58:23 | 0:58:25 |