Browse content similar to The Cult Next Door. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting | 0:00:02 | 0:00:06 | |
Three women who claim they have been held slaves in a home in London | 0:00:06 | 0:00:10 | |
for at least 30 years have been rescued by the police. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:13 | |
They are described as a 69-year-old Malaysian woman, | 0:00:13 | 0:00:16 | |
a 57-year-old Irish... | 0:00:16 | 0:00:18 | |
A 69-year-old from Malaysia, | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
a 57-year-old from Ireland, | 0:00:21 | 0:00:22 | |
and a 30-year old British woman were all rescued. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:26 | |
All three women were highly traumatised | 0:00:26 | 0:00:29 | |
and were taken to a place of safety, where they remain. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:33 | |
We have seen some cases where people have been held for up to ten years, | 0:00:33 | 0:00:38 | |
but we've never seen anything of this magnitude before. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
Thank you. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:41 | |
It's, you know, it's kind of impossible to... | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
believe that something like that could happen. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
Well, I didn't know nothing about until I read in the papers that | 0:00:56 | 0:00:59 | |
he was, like, keeping them as slaves or brainwashing them or what. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
You know, but I didn't know nothing about it. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
When I first heard this strange and intriguing story, | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
I wanted to discover how this could have happened right under our noses | 0:01:12 | 0:01:17 | |
in the heart of London. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:18 | |
It's only now, | 0:01:22 | 0:01:24 | |
three years after the women emerged from captivity, that I've been able | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
to piece together a full account of this extraordinary story. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
He's God. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:37 | |
He rules the world. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:40 | |
He's immortal. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
And...he's our leader and teacher and we just have to obey him, | 0:01:42 | 0:01:48 | |
otherwise we will die. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:50 | |
The first contact with the women was made by a charity | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
who rescued them from a flat in Brixton in south London. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
We got there about 11:05 | 0:02:14 | 0:02:16 | |
because there was a window of opportunity | 0:02:16 | 0:02:18 | |
when people weren't in the house. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
Sure enough, these women all came out at exactly 11:15 sharp. | 0:02:21 | 0:02:26 | |
Coming up in the car, | 0:02:28 | 0:02:29 | |
somebody wanted to know why | 0:02:29 | 0:02:31 | |
the cars coming towards us had white lights... | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
-That was Aisha. -..and the cars in front of us had red lights | 0:02:33 | 0:02:35 | |
Do you want to know why that was? | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
In the immediate aftermath, | 0:02:42 | 0:02:43 | |
none of the agencies involved knew what they were dealing with, | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
so the women were spirited away to Leeds | 0:02:47 | 0:02:50 | |
where they could be protected from the press and the public. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
Yvonne Hall and Gerard Stocks run an organisation helping people | 0:02:58 | 0:03:02 | |
who've been trafficked and enslaved. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
They took the three women under their own roof, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
and were the first to realise the full extent of what had taken place. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
The 69-year-old Malaysian woman, seen here on the left, is Aisha. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:24 | |
The 57-year-old Irish woman on the right is Josie, | 0:03:24 | 0:03:29 | |
and the 30-year-old is Katy. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
When she first came, yes, she was 30 years old in the way we measure age, | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
but she wasn't. She was much probably nearer to ten | 0:03:38 | 0:03:40 | |
or 11 or something like that. Again, I'm not a psychologist, | 0:03:40 | 0:03:43 | |
but I think that would be accurate from what other people... | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
I would even go even further. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:47 | |
I would say she was ten or 11 in her ability to communicate verbally, | 0:03:47 | 0:03:52 | |
but in her ability to actually do practical daily tasks, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:57 | |
I would probably drop it back down to maybe six/seven. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
It became clear that Katy had been born in captivity | 0:04:02 | 0:04:07 | |
and had never known any other life. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:09 | |
She had never been to school and had only rarely left the house. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
After much delicate discussion, | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
Katy finally agreed to an interview. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
Did you ever go to the dentist or the doctor? | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
No, not a lot. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
And why was... | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
Why was that? | 0:04:38 | 0:04:39 | |
I guess it... | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
I guess he didn't want anybody to know of my existence, | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
that was part of it, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
but he also used to say that, used to say, | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
"NHS means 'Never Helps Self.'" | 0:04:50 | 0:04:52 | |
So we should...if we get ill, | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
we have to focus on him, then we will get better as if by magic. | 0:04:56 | 0:05:01 | |
BBC NEWS OPENING THEME | 0:05:03 | 0:05:05 | |
Good evening and welcome to the BBC's News At Six. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
The couple suspected of holding three women as slaves | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
for more than 30 years have been named as Aravindan Balakrishnan | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
and his wife, Chanda. The BBC understands that both | 0:05:18 | 0:05:21 | |
were leading figures in a far left Communist faction | 0:05:21 | 0:05:24 | |
based on Brixton in South London in the 1970s. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
Up in Leeds, the women began to talk about life in what they termed | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
The Collective. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:34 | |
They referred to Balakrishnan as Comrade Bala, or AB, | 0:05:36 | 0:05:40 | |
and revealed that he had had control over every aspect of their lives. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:45 | |
He had threatened and terrified them, | 0:05:48 | 0:05:50 | |
claiming to have an invisible, all-powerful machine | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
at his disposal, which he called Jackie. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
Tell me about Jackie. What does Jackie stand for? | 0:06:00 | 0:06:03 | |
Jehovah, Allah, Christ, Krishna and Immortal Easwaran. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:10 | |
And what was Jackie? | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
His...Bala's mind control machine... | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
..who controls everything in nature and everything in the world. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:23 | |
And what would he say that Jackie would do to you | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
if you did the wrong thing or stood up to him or...? | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
Kill you. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
Or cause you terrible harm. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
Jackie came up a lot, with all three people, and even now, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
I would suggest that two of the three absolutely are definitely very | 0:06:52 | 0:06:57 | |
scared of Jackie, that Jackie's going to take revenge at some point. | 0:06:57 | 0:07:00 | |
Are they leaflets about Comrade Bala, yeah? | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
Despite having voluntarily left the collective, | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
Josie Herivel has spent the last three years on an one-woman mission | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
to clear Balakrishnan's name. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:25 | |
Are you and others also fighting? | 0:07:28 | 0:07:30 | |
Are you part of a campaign with other people as well? | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
Absolutely. We are in solidarity with all the people | 0:07:33 | 0:07:38 | |
who are suffering under the British state, you know, | 0:07:38 | 0:07:41 | |
US-led British state. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
It is a slave of America, Britain is a slave of America. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
-And how is Comrade Bala? -No, I'm not being interviewed, OK? | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
-I don't want to be interviewed. -OK. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
She declined to take part in this film, | 0:07:54 | 0:07:57 | |
declaring the BBC a tool of the British fascist state. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
In the one interview she gave to Channel 4 News in 2015, | 0:08:03 | 0:08:08 | |
she gave HER view of Jackie. | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
What I understand about it is it's a... | 0:08:10 | 0:08:15 | |
machine, you know. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:17 | |
Electronic machine which helps people to do good, you know. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:21 | |
But he has talked about people dying as a result of that machine. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:26 | |
-Yes. -Do you believe that? | 0:08:26 | 0:08:28 | |
I do, yes. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
That he had the power to make somebody die? | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
Yes. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:35 | |
With Jackie's help, Balakrishnan controlled the world | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
from inside the flat. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
He took credit for all global events | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
including wars and natural disasters. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
Everything that happened outside, like earthquakes and hurricanes, | 0:08:54 | 0:08:58 | |
he claimed was a consequence of a lack of discipline | 0:08:58 | 0:09:02 | |
or misbehaviour by his followers inside. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
The Space Shuttle Challenger, | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
it was meant to have blown up when he said that | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
people were challenging him in the house. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
And the shape was like a Y, | 0:09:19 | 0:09:23 | |
when the shuttle blew up, it was like a Y, | 0:09:23 | 0:09:26 | |
so he used to say it is because people are vying with him, | 0:09:26 | 0:09:29 | |
so there's a Y there like that in the sky. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:33 | |
The Collective lived at numerous addresses in south London | 0:09:41 | 0:09:45 | |
over the 40 years of its existence. | 0:09:45 | 0:09:47 | |
At one address, a pizza delivery boy rang their bell by mistake. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:53 | |
So Bala said that this was the fascist state trying to provoke him. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
By bringing the pizza? | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
Yes, by bringing the pizza and disturbing him | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
and disturbing what he was doing. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
So that then the same day there was an earthquake in Kobe in Japan. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:14 | |
Which meant... Kobe means "God's door", that's what he said. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:22 | |
So he said, when there was a knock on God's door... | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
SHE GIGGLES | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
..sounds crazy but, yes. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
Go on, finish that thought. So when there was a knock on God's door... | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
Then there was this huge earthquake in Kobe to punish the fascist state | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
for the fact that the pizza delivery man came to God's door. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:51 | |
-Bala's door? -Bala's door. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:53 | |
When I was asking her about some of the strange theories... | 0:10:59 | 0:11:04 | |
-She would have laughed, she would have laughed. -..she laughed. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
Yeah, she would have done. It's not cos she thinks it's funny, | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
it's because she's really embarrassed or really pressured. | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
And it's a really important thing to know, | 0:11:13 | 0:11:15 | |
-if you're asking her questions. -Yeah. -It is, isn't it, really? | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
There's a lot of people will see the laugh and think, | 0:11:18 | 0:11:20 | |
"Oh," you know, "she thinks it's funny," | 0:11:20 | 0:11:23 | |
whereas really she is in distress at that point. | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
Using Jackie as his tool, what was his plan? | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
To become the ruler of the world? | 0:11:31 | 0:11:33 | |
Yes, or he used to say to become the overt ruler of the world. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
He used to say he was already the ruler of the world | 0:11:36 | 0:11:39 | |
but then it has to become overt, that's what he used to say. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
So he was the COVERT ruler of the world at this point? | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
-Yes. -Inside the flat? -Yeah. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
-And he was going to become the overt ruler? -Yes. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:51 | |
And how was that going to happen? What was going to happen | 0:11:51 | 0:11:55 | |
that suddenly would mean that the whole world would obey him? | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
He never exactly said. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:02 | |
-GERARD STOCK: -He was going to take over the universe after the world, | 0:12:05 | 0:12:07 | |
and to see if she could eventually take over the world, | 0:12:07 | 0:12:10 | |
I believe the country that were mentioned were Brazil. | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
She were going to get Brazil as a starter, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
to see if she could control that OK. So... I know. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
So she was being primed for ruler of Brazil? | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
-Yes. -Yes. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
Why Brazil, I've absolutely no idea. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
Does she know... Had she been... Does she know much about Brazil? | 0:12:28 | 0:12:31 | |
-I don't know. -I don't think so. | 0:12:31 | 0:12:33 | |
MUSIC: Together We Are Beautiful by Fern Kinney | 0:12:36 | 0:12:41 | |
# He walked into my life | 0:12:42 | 0:12:45 | |
# And now he's taking over | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
# And it's beautiful | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
# Yes, it's beautiful... # | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
It all began in 1976 | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
when Balakrishnan founded his Maoist Collective. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
The Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
was on Acre Lane in Brixton in South London. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
# I think we're beautiful...# | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
His group included his Tanzanian wife, Chanda, | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
her disabled sister and about 15 core followers, | 0:13:21 | 0:13:26 | |
most of whom, like him, were students from Asia. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
One of them, Aisha Wahab, has never spoken to the media before. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:37 | |
She had come from Malaysia at the age of 24 | 0:13:38 | 0:13:41 | |
to study quantity surveying. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
I was really inspired by him, you know. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
And I thought he... | 0:13:50 | 0:13:53 | |
he was great, you know, to have... | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
..been able to clarify our minds | 0:13:56 | 0:14:00 | |
as to what to do with our lives, really. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
Were you happy living in The Collective, Aisha? | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
Yes, I thought every... | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
..day was very interesting. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
I was never, ever bored. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
There is always something new to learn, | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
there's something new to do. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
I mean, everything was... | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
I just can't imagine I would have... | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
..had a better life than that. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
Also in the group were two middle-class British women - | 0:14:44 | 0:14:48 | |
Josie, who was studying music when she met Balakrishnan, | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
and Sian Davies, | 0:14:52 | 0:14:54 | |
a postgraduate student at the London School of Economics. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
I was particularly intrigued by Sian's story. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
How did you know Sian? | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
I was at school with her. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
-And what school was it? -It was Cheltenham Ladies College. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
She was academic. I think she was quite profoundly academic | 0:15:15 | 0:15:19 | |
in a funny way. It wasn't necessarily the type of academia | 0:15:19 | 0:15:22 | |
that passed exams at a very high level at that stage, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:25 | |
but she was a deep thinker. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:27 | |
-THROUGH MEGAPHONE: -The Labour Party, the Tory Party, | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
and the Liberals are all enemies of the working class... | 0:15:43 | 0:15:46 | |
We used to see them down in the marketplace. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:49 | |
We used to have our paper sales there and other groups did as well. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
It was a bit of a crowded market. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
And these guys would turn up. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:56 | |
They didn't have a paper to sell but they used to hand out leaflets | 0:15:56 | 0:16:01 | |
and we used to collect them, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
because they were sort of like the comic relief. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
And we popped down the pub afterwards for a pint and we'd just | 0:16:06 | 0:16:09 | |
roar with laughter at what the Workers Institute had to say. | 0:16:09 | 0:16:14 | |
"The Communist Party of China and Chairman Mao are on the verge | 0:16:16 | 0:16:19 | |
"of launching a final offensive this year | 0:16:19 | 0:16:22 | |
"to dismantle the old world of colonialism, | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
"imperialism and a hegemonism and build the new world of socialism." | 0:16:25 | 0:16:30 | |
"And then," in emphasis, | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
"eternal glory to our great leader and teacher, Chairman Mao Tse-tung. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:38 | |
"Uphold proletarian internationalism." | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
There we are. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
I have one specific memory of her... | 0:16:49 | 0:16:53 | |
..which is probably the last time I saw her. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
I can't be sure of that, but I think it probably was, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:01 | |
when she invited me for dinner. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:02 | |
She had her boyfriend, Martin, there. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
And she was dressed in... | 0:17:06 | 0:17:08 | |
dressed like a Maoist with all, you know, the blue and the collar, | 0:17:08 | 0:17:12 | |
and the whole dinner we had the Chinese Communist radio playing | 0:17:12 | 0:17:19 | |
and she talked to me... | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
Well, the way she talked to me I didn't know who she was. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
She had become a Communist in the way she was talking to me. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
She, she... | 0:17:30 | 0:17:32 | |
There was nothing of her coming through at all by this stage, | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
that's what I would say. It was quite scary. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
I didn't like being there, it was too late, I had to stay the night. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
She didn't want to give me a bed because I wasn't a Communist. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
But I got a mattress eventually | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
and I'm afraid the next morning I just ran away. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
One of the things that's interesting is that the Workers Institute | 0:18:03 | 0:18:07 | |
was probably unique among the groups of the far left, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:10 | |
in that they didn't see themselves as being in the business | 0:18:10 | 0:18:14 | |
of creating a revolution. They saw their role | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
as preparing the population in the "imperialist heartlands", | 0:18:17 | 0:18:22 | |
as they referred to Brixton, London, Britain, | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
for liberation by the Chinese. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:27 | |
Did they set a date when the Chinese Liberation Army were going to do this? | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
End of 1977. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
And so, very early in 1978, | 0:18:40 | 0:18:45 | |
I had a conversation with several of the members at the time, | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
expressed my disappointment that I had not been liberated from | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
capitalist oppression as they had predicted. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
And they said that the computer satellites got so good that | 0:18:58 | 0:19:02 | |
actually the Chinese do already control everything in the world, | 0:19:02 | 0:19:07 | |
but they realise that you can't hand people socialism on a plate, | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
they need to learn to struggle for themselves. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
So they have actually taken over everything but they're leaving | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
the appearance of capitalism in place, so that people | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
can actually have this experience of liberating themselves. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
The idea was that the Chinese Red Army would come | 0:19:28 | 0:19:34 | |
and liberate the UK within a year. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
That's what Bala expected. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:40 | |
-Yes. -Remember that? -Yes. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
So you're waiting for that to happen? | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
Yes, I suppose. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
-It didn't happen. -It didn't happen, did it? | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
I came across Aravindan Balakrishnan in the mid-70s. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:08 | |
It was my formative years as a police officer, | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
I was a uniformed police officer in Brixton. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:14 | |
And it really was an age of lots happening. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
There was anti-capitalist marches. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
The whole environment was like a cauldron of demonstration. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:33 | |
And in amongst all of that, | 0:20:35 | 0:20:37 | |
appeared in these premises here in Acre Lane | 0:20:37 | 0:20:41 | |
what was called the Chairman Mao Memorial Centre. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
And this was quite intriguing even for those days, | 0:20:47 | 0:20:50 | |
and I decided to pay them a visit one day. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
And I said to Balakrishnan, "I'm going to be watching you. | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
"And I'll be looking out every time I come by, | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
"what you're doing in here." | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
The Workers Institute were raided. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:12 | |
That was very, very rare. We were all surprised, | 0:21:12 | 0:21:14 | |
considering these guys had no presence anywhere | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
and were only just like a nuisance to the authorities, | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
of a non-political nature. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
We, the police, got a warrant, and it's very telling | 0:21:23 | 0:21:28 | |
we got that warrant under the misuse of drugs act because, you know, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
our belief was that these people were on some form of drugs, | 0:21:32 | 0:21:37 | |
and the place was raided by police and no drugs were found, | 0:21:37 | 0:21:42 | |
and it was boarded up and closed down. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
And while their view is going to be, | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
"Yes, this is the capitalist state closing us down", | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
well, I'm sorry, sometimes it needs a hard hand. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
Well, we called it a trumped-up charge. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:00 | |
You see, the charge was about | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
having...drugs. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
Having and holding drugs and consuming drugs as well. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:12 | |
So none of us even smoked cigarettes, | 0:22:12 | 0:22:15 | |
so we don't know anything about drugs. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:18 | |
This was seen as persecution and as I understand it, | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
that's when Balakrishnan then withdrew | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
into a much more almost a hermetic kind of environment | 0:22:29 | 0:22:34 | |
with just the very, very small group of mostly female acolytes. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:39 | |
People would say every so often, | 0:22:42 | 0:22:43 | |
"Whatever happened to The Workers Institute?" | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
Cos they'd suddenly disappeared, | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
cos they'd always be there on the corner at Brixton. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
And then they suddenly disappeared. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:53 | |
And now we know what happened, they went underground, | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
or what was left of them. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
By 1980, The Collective was living in hiding | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
and consisted of Balakrishnan, his wife and her sister, | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
and seven other women, including Sian, Josie and Aisha. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
# I wanna be immortal | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
# Like a God in the sky... # | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
Exploiting their isolation from the world, | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
Balakrishnan indoctrinated them with increasingly strange ideas. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
Was it your understanding that he was immortal? | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
Well, he did say that, | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
and he did repeat it again and again. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:48 | |
And... | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
he also showed how... | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
it was possible for him to be immortal. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
How did he show that? | 0:24:01 | 0:24:03 | |
Well... | 0:24:03 | 0:24:05 | |
..you know, different things. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
For example, he never believes in going to the dentist | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
because he say we should let the teeth drop naturally. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:18 | |
-Hello again. -Hello. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:21 | |
'And then by the time you're 100 years, the teeth will re-grow.' | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
Hi, I'm Dr Hare. Pleased to meet you. Would you like to have a seat? | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
And then you have another set of teeth | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
and then when those drop, you re-grow again. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
I just want to have a talk with you about your teeth. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
You see, you've lost quite a number of teeth, over the years. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:42 | |
We lost teeth, we wait until the tooth has grown again. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:47 | |
-Yes. -Until the tooth grows on its own? | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
Yes. It will grow on its own when we are 100 or over years. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
-It will grow back on its own? -Yes. -Have you ever heard of that? | 0:24:56 | 0:24:59 | |
-Have you ever heard of teeth growing back? -No. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:01 | |
Well, I've heard of it. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
It does happen, but I don't know if I'm going to be even 100 years old. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:09 | |
Yeah, yeah, | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
-you see sometimes it's better to keep what you have... -Yes. | 0:25:11 | 0:25:14 | |
..rather than wait for... | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
No, no, I don't lose my teeth on purpose. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
No, no, I know. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
What I was told is that let the teeth fall by itself, | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
and that it will grow up again. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:27 | |
Who said this to you? | 0:25:27 | 0:25:29 | |
-Somebody I know. -Somebody you know. Right. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
I suppose, again, you know, from the outside, | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
it does sound like you were brainwashed. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
What's your response to that, Aisha? | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
I think a question of brainwashed, I quite agree. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
I think the line that we were given | 0:25:45 | 0:25:50 | |
is that we do need to be... | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
Our brains did need to be washed. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
Because it was, | 0:25:57 | 0:25:59 | |
you know it was... | 0:25:59 | 0:26:00 | |
..dirty, you know, mucky or whatever. | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
Had to be washed of all ideas. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
When you bring...want to build a new world | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
you can't bring the old, you know, into it. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:18 | |
So we had to chip away the old | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
and in place you can't leave it blank, | 0:26:21 | 0:26:24 | |
you have to fill the void. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:25 | |
In 1983, | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
Balakrishnan's socialist programme took a new and sinister direction. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:37 | |
He began an experiment which he called Project Prem. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:42 | |
When Katy was born, did you know who the father of the baby was? | 0:26:44 | 0:26:50 | |
No. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
I did ask Sian. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
I said, because at first when she was pregnant | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
we didn't know she was pregnant. Well, I didn't, anyway. | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
So I said, "Sian," you know, "are you pregnant?" | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
Because her tummy was going bigger. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:09 | |
She said, "No, it's not." | 0:27:09 | 0:27:11 | |
I said, "Why is your body like this?" | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
So she said, you know, "Some people do have it like this. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
"That's gas in the body and, you know, it gets bigger and bigger." | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
So that's it. And when Katy was born I was really shocked. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:29 | |
Do you think Sian believed that? | 0:27:29 | 0:27:31 | |
Did she know she was pregnant? | 0:27:31 | 0:27:33 | |
Maybe she didn't, I don't know. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
Maybe she didn't either, you know. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:37 | |
So that must have been a real surprise. | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
-Yes. -So she had a big tummy for whatever strange reason, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
-and then suddenly a baby arrived. -That's right, yes. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:47 | |
I think he used to say that I was brought out of electronic warfare. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
His mind control machine, Jackie, was meant to have... | 0:28:01 | 0:28:04 | |
..got Sian pregnant I suppose. | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
Tell me what name you were given at birth, Katy. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:15 | |
Prem Maopinduzi. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
The first name, Prem, is in ancient language, it is meant to mean love, | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
and the second name is, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
I think it is from Swahili, it means revolution. | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
So it meant love revolution, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:37 | |
and... | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
I hated that. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
-Because your name was actually an instruction. -Yes. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
-It was like "You must love revolution"? -Yes. | 0:28:45 | 0:28:47 | |
And he thought that when he rules the world that I'm meant to be like | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
a soldier for him or his mouthpiece. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:57 | |
Project Prem was an experiment in child-rearing, | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
intended to eliminate the nuclear family. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:07 | |
Comrade Prem, as Katy was known, | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
was dressed in genderless clothing, | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
was never told who her parents were | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
and was raised collectively by the group. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
-AISHA: -It is a new way of looking after a baby, it is not done before. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:35 | |
I'm so used to babies being held and cuddled | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
and carried and things like that. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:43 | |
We were discouraged from doing those things because... | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
..I wasn't really | 0:29:49 | 0:29:52 | |
clear exactly what | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
the correct lines were, but | 0:29:54 | 0:29:59 | |
it meant to, um... | 0:29:59 | 0:30:00 | |
..you see, the baby meant to be solid | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
without any encumbrances from anywhere else, you see. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
So you just meant to stand by him...herself. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
I suppose that was the idea, you know, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:17 | |
that when you hold somebody or caress somebody | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
there's a bonding going on, you know, | 0:30:20 | 0:30:23 | |
there's a bond between baby and mother. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:26 | |
But that wasn't that encouraged in Katy. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:33 | |
He was the only one who was meant to cuddle me | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
and no-one else was meant to, because | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
if I was to cuddle other people, | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
he used to say that that's being, | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
like being a lesbian to cuddle other women. | 0:30:47 | 0:30:50 | |
When Katy was born there were plenty of things I had to question... | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
..and this was one of them, | 0:30:57 | 0:30:59 | |
about treatment of Katy, disciplining of her. | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
And there was a discipline on me as well. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
There was once when Katy wet herself | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
and she was only four and... | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
you know, she was denounced | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
and I was denounced as well for letting her wet her... | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
And I was so angry about it, I really felt | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
like running out the house at that time, but I didn't. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:28 | |
I tried hard not to because | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
then I could see that if I had gone out, I had nobody outside. | 0:31:31 | 0:31:35 | |
I'd lost contact with my family. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
I had no money, I had no job... | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
..and I might have been deported. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
They were strange. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
If you see them on the street, even shopping, they never say hello. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:53 | |
They just go straight in, out. Yeah. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:56 | |
If I'm in the garden, they're upstairs, | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
if they see anyone out, if you look up, | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
they close the curtain so you don't actually see who's looking. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
What did you think, they were unusual neighbours? | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
I just thought were refugees that lived there. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:11 | |
I thought they were hiding from somebody, never speak. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:14 | |
But one looked like, she looked like English. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
But the others looked like Chinese or Filipino, whatever. | 0:32:20 | 0:32:24 | |
But one, she's tall and the rest short. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:28 | |
The garden was overgrown, it must have been three/four foot | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
all the time since them people left. And it was the same with | 0:32:32 | 0:32:35 | |
the front of the house, he would never cut anything. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
He would always tie the stuff back just enough to get a wheelchair | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
in and out, and the whole garden was covered in weeds. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:42 | |
Curtains were never opened at any time at all, front or back of house. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:46 | |
The only time you'd see them was sometimes at the back when | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
the little girl would turn round and | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
pop the head up, pop back down again. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:52 | |
So is it disturbing to you, Peter, | 0:32:57 | 0:32:59 | |
to think that there was a child being held captive next door? | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
I mean, as I'm talking to yourself now, | 0:33:02 | 0:33:04 | |
it's actually bringing a lump to the throat. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:06 | |
What aspect of it is upsetting for you, Peter? | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
It's just the thought of what that child has gone through, | 0:33:22 | 0:33:24 | |
at the time I just didn't do anything about it. | 0:33:24 | 0:33:26 | |
I mean, I'm so sorry that I didn't. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
Again, I didn't know what was happening but if I did, | 0:33:28 | 0:33:32 | |
I definitely would have done something about it. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
-KATY: -One night, 1996, | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
there was screaming in the middle of the night, and subsequently | 0:33:48 | 0:33:52 | |
I learned that Sian had tried to stab herself with a knife. | 0:33:52 | 0:33:57 | |
And then... | 0:34:00 | 0:34:02 | |
on the early morning of Christmas Eve, | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
again there was screaming and shouting in the middle of the night | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
so I went downstairs with Aisha, | 0:34:08 | 0:34:11 | |
who I was sleeping with and found... | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
Sian's... | 0:34:16 | 0:34:17 | |
Sian was lying on the floor and she had been tied up. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
Her hands and legs were tied and she was gagged. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:25 | |
And she had this piece of cloth in her mouth. | 0:34:28 | 0:34:31 | |
I don't know if it was a sock or something, I don't know. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
And Oh and Josie were both holding her down on the floor | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
and they had tied her up | 0:34:39 | 0:34:41 | |
and Bala and Chanda were both shouting at her. | 0:34:41 | 0:34:44 | |
She had tried to run out, that's why she was tied up. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
So you think she was trying to leave, or trying to escape? | 0:34:52 | 0:34:55 | |
Yeah, she was trying to escape. | 0:34:55 | 0:34:57 | |
And then because she couldn't escape that way, that's why she... | 0:34:57 | 0:35:01 | |
she went out through the window, thinking she could escape that way. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
She had lost her mind by that time. | 0:35:04 | 0:35:06 | |
AB said that, | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
you know, that she fell. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:16 | |
He started from the beginning to say that she fell, | 0:35:16 | 0:35:21 | |
you know, because of the nature of the bathroom. | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
So I just stuck to that. | 0:35:25 | 0:35:28 | |
Having fallen from the bathroom window, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
Sian was taken to hospital where she fell into a coma | 0:35:37 | 0:35:41 | |
and died seven months later. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
There was an inquest after Sian's death | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
and at that inquest you were asked whether she had any children. | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
-Yes. -And you said no. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
No. Yes. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:55 | |
Why was that your response? | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
Because AB said to do so. | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
Because we definitely didn't want Katy to be taken away | 0:36:01 | 0:36:06 | |
and then live a life as of old, you know. | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
And not participate to build a new...society. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:15 | |
At the time of the inquest, | 0:36:25 | 0:36:27 | |
a journalist visited The Collective and had an exchange on the doorstep | 0:36:27 | 0:36:32 | |
with Josie, Aisha, and a third woman, | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
Oh Kareng, who was also from Malaysia. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
You have come when you come, when the milkman comes, | 0:36:37 | 0:36:40 | |
you're part of the fascist state. | 0:36:40 | 0:36:42 | |
Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please? | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
You're part of the fascist state and if you don't stop harassing us | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
we'll call the open fascist state on you. | 0:36:47 | 0:36:49 | |
Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please? | 0:36:49 | 0:36:51 | |
We don't want to talk to you. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
Are you higher than the Coroner's Court? | 0:36:53 | 0:36:55 | |
Everything has to be sorted out there. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
I'd just like to ask you very simple questions. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
Why won't you speak to us? | 0:37:00 | 0:37:01 | |
You are showing that you're a part of the fascist state. | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
Josephine, why won't you speak to us, please? | 0:37:03 | 0:37:05 | |
You are showing us that. We don't want to talk to you. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
Please. Could we speak to Comrade Bala, please? | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
We don't want to talk to you. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:11 | |
Sian died when Katy was only 14. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:17 | |
After she died, did life get better or worse for you? | 0:37:19 | 0:37:24 | |
Life got better for me in a funny way. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:26 | |
I mean, because she was | 0:37:26 | 0:37:28 | |
one of the worst, | 0:37:28 | 0:37:30 | |
like, servants | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
of...of Bala. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
So it was such a relief with her not there. | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
Because his sort of worst kind of enforcer had gone? | 0:37:40 | 0:37:43 | |
Yes, his worse enforcer had gone, yes. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:46 | |
Life may have improved | 0:37:55 | 0:37:57 | |
but the unbearable tyranny of Project Prem continued. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:01 | |
He used to say that everything would go against me if I had | 0:38:11 | 0:38:16 | |
done wrong, | 0:38:16 | 0:38:20 | |
so like... | 0:38:20 | 0:38:22 | |
..possibly the, like the light shouldn't work | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
or the tap shouldn't work | 0:38:26 | 0:38:28 | |
because everything is controlled by him, | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
by Jackie, his mind control machine. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:34 | |
So, like, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:36 | |
I went to the bathroom and turned the tap on, | 0:38:36 | 0:38:39 | |
it shouldn't work because I had done wrong. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
But then when I went to the bathroom and the tap did work | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
I thought, "Oh, the tap, you're on my side, thank you," | 0:38:46 | 0:38:50 | |
and I kissed the tap | 0:38:50 | 0:38:52 | |
and hugged the toilet when the flush worked. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:55 | |
I used to look forward to the clocks changing, | 0:39:09 | 0:39:12 | |
when they used to go forward in March or go backwards in October, | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
because that made things a bit different. | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
Get darker or lighter in the evenings. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
In 2004, Comrade Oh, | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
who had been with Balakrishnan since the '70s | 0:39:36 | 0:39:38 | |
had an accident in the kitchen. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:41 | |
I think she banged her head... | 0:39:44 | 0:39:46 | |
..and she collapsed | 0:39:47 | 0:39:51 | |
and she was shouting, "Call the doctor." | 0:39:51 | 0:39:55 | |
Bala and Chanda kept harassing her as she was collapsing | 0:39:56 | 0:40:02 | |
and she was ill and kept saying, | 0:40:02 | 0:40:04 | |
talking, talking, talking to her and trying to force to answer questions, | 0:40:04 | 0:40:08 | |
and she couldn't answer because she was, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:12 | |
she was dying, really, and then they started saying to her, | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
"Stop throwing a tantrum. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:17 | |
"Nobody bangs their head and refuses to talk," and things like that, | 0:40:17 | 0:40:21 | |
but she was actually... | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
..unable to, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:28 | |
to talk because she was... | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
She had a stroke. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
And then the next day she died. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:35 | |
By now, two comrades had died | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
and three other women who had been with the group since the 1970s | 0:40:45 | 0:40:49 | |
had chosen to leave. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:50 | |
The Collective had dwindled to just six. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
Balakrishnan, his wife, Chanda, | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
her sister and Katy, | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
and only two remaining followers, Josie and Aisha. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:03 | |
Josie and Aisha were required to do all the housework. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
And The Collective depended financially | 0:41:12 | 0:41:14 | |
on Chanda's Carer's Allowance | 0:41:14 | 0:41:16 | |
and her sister's disability benefit. | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
Balakrishnan continued to frighten the few remaining members | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
of the household into staying. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
He also used to say that if I defied him, | 0:41:31 | 0:41:34 | |
and just wanted to go out on my own then... | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
..either there will be... | 0:41:39 | 0:41:41 | |
Lightning will strike me dead or... | 0:41:41 | 0:41:43 | |
..blow up, as it's called, spontaneous human combustion. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
-So that you would spontaneously combust? -Yes. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:53 | |
-Or explode? -Mm. | 0:41:55 | 0:41:57 | |
To me, that idea that someone would spontaneously combust | 0:42:00 | 0:42:05 | |
if they left their flat is complete nonsense, | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
to me, with my worldview. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
Now that you're out and living your own life, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
can you see that that sounds like nonsense? | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
Well, it... | 0:42:18 | 0:42:21 | |
I can see that it can be nonsensical but... | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
..there is such a thing as spontaneous human combustion. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:31 | |
I've read about it in two or three different places, | 0:42:32 | 0:42:37 | |
so I have an open mind about that. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:40 | |
But as to whether, if he can induce it as and when he wants, | 0:42:45 | 0:42:50 | |
that's the different issue. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
# I have a dream | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
# A song to sing | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 | |
# To help me cope | 0:43:02 | 0:43:05 | |
# With anything...# | 0:43:07 | 0:43:09 | |
In 2005, at the age of 22, | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
having never gone outside on her own | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
and despite believing she could be killed by Jackie, | 0:43:15 | 0:43:19 | |
Katy decided to take the risk and made a break for it. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
How did you get out of the house? | 0:43:25 | 0:43:27 | |
By the back door. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:31 | |
And then just carrying lots of bags and things. | 0:43:33 | 0:43:36 | |
And somebody saw me and said, | 0:43:37 | 0:43:40 | |
"Do you need any help with your bags?" | 0:43:40 | 0:43:44 | |
So I said, "No, but I've run away from home." | 0:43:44 | 0:43:47 | |
So they said... | 0:43:47 | 0:43:48 | |
So I said, "What do I do?" | 0:43:50 | 0:43:52 | |
So they said, go to the police station. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:54 | |
So I did. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:56 | |
Tell me what happened when you went into the police station? | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
So they persuaded... | 0:44:04 | 0:44:05 | |
..me to let them call, | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
call Bala, so then he came. | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
Balakrishnan reassured the police that all was well | 0:44:15 | 0:44:19 | |
and took Katy back to The Collective, | 0:44:19 | 0:44:22 | |
where she remained in captivity for another eight years. | 0:44:22 | 0:44:25 | |
AB did say that he liked to discuss things and query things, | 0:44:30 | 0:44:37 | |
why things are done like this or like that. | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
But he said that if it's gone more than two or three times | 0:44:42 | 0:44:49 | |
then he resorts to, you know, slapping you or, you know... | 0:44:49 | 0:44:54 | |
..on the face, you see. And something... | 0:44:55 | 0:44:59 | |
Sometimes other parts as well. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:01 | |
So, yes, it did happen. | 0:45:01 | 0:45:04 | |
-It did take place. -So you were beaten? | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
I was, yes. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:09 | |
Was everybody beaten? | 0:45:09 | 0:45:10 | |
I would have thought so, yes. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
These are outrageous allegations, it didn't happen. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:17 | |
-Did you ever see him hit anybody? -No. | 0:45:17 | 0:45:20 | |
-Or humiliate anybody? -No, I didn't. -Shout at anybody? | 0:45:20 | 0:45:23 | |
-He didn't do that to me. No. -You never saw anything like that? | 0:45:23 | 0:45:27 | |
No, I didn't. | 0:45:27 | 0:45:29 | |
Every aspect of life in The Collective was neatly timetabled | 0:45:36 | 0:45:39 | |
and logged in handwritten rotas, | 0:45:39 | 0:45:42 | |
including Balakrishnan's baths and meals. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:45 | |
But over time, the daily schedule evolved. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:58 | |
Previously, only Balakrishnan and his wife had had access | 0:45:58 | 0:46:02 | |
to the television, | 0:46:02 | 0:46:04 | |
but now all the comrades were allowed to watch selected programmes | 0:46:04 | 0:46:08 | |
including the Six O'Clock News. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
Would you discuss the news with him? | 0:46:12 | 0:46:13 | |
Would you discuss world events with him? | 0:46:13 | 0:46:16 | |
He would discuss with us. | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
-So he would talk and you would listen. -Mm. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
It sounds like there wasn't much discussion, actually, | 0:46:20 | 0:46:24 | |
cos discussion means people exchanging ideas. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
-That's right. -But actually he talked and you listened. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
-That's right. -So there's no discussion, in fact. -No. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:33 | |
In her late twenties, Katy, suffering from undiagnosed diabetes, | 0:46:41 | 0:46:46 | |
began to rapidly lose weight. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
Terrified that a third member of The Collective might die, | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
Josie committed to memory a helpline number she had seen on the news. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:57 | |
If you or someone you know is affected by forced marriage, | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
call the BBC Action Line to hear recorded information. | 0:47:02 | 0:47:04 | |
That's on 0800... | 0:47:04 | 0:47:06 | |
Josie saved money in secret, | 0:47:06 | 0:47:09 | |
smuggled a mobile phone into the flat | 0:47:09 | 0:47:11 | |
and in protracted discussions with the helpline, | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
put together an escape plan. | 0:47:14 | 0:47:16 | |
It was arranged that Katy and Josie would leave | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
when Balakrishnan and Chanda were out shopping. | 0:47:21 | 0:47:24 | |
So at 11:15 sharp we left, | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
Josie and me, with our trolleys. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:35 | |
I had absolutely no intention of leaving, you know. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:41 | |
In fact leaving The Collective for me was really sort of like | 0:47:41 | 0:47:44 | |
breaking my heart, really. But... | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
I could see that she needed help, so, you know. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
She asked me to go with her, so I agreed to do it. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:55 | |
I regret it very much now but at that time... | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
..I didn't think that... | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
..it would all blow up like this. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
As Katy and Josie made their way to freedom, | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
Aisha chose to stay in The Collective and was there | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
when Balakrishnan and Chanda came back. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
He was denouncing Katy and Josie... | 0:48:25 | 0:48:29 | |
..and saying that now they have joined the British fascist state | 0:48:31 | 0:48:37 | |
and all those things. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:39 | |
So, it was time for lunch so I said, I'll cook lunch. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:43 | |
So we were just sitting down to have lunch when the police came. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:49 | |
I told the police I'd come with them. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
But as I was coming out I saw Chanda there and Bala there, | 0:48:54 | 0:48:59 | |
I went and hugged them. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
Whatever I, you know, my misgivings... | 0:49:02 | 0:49:05 | |
..I hugged them anyway. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
Was that the last time you saw them, Aisha? | 0:49:12 | 0:49:14 | |
-Mm-hmm. -And that's sad... That memory is very sad for you? | 0:49:14 | 0:49:18 | |
-Sorry? -Is that very sad for you when you remember that? | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
You look upset about that. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:25 | |
Yes, I am upset. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
Because you'd been with them for 40 years or so? | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
And they were like family, really, to you? | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
In the course of the police investigation, | 0:49:57 | 0:50:00 | |
all charges against Balakrishnan's wife, Chanda, were dropped, | 0:50:00 | 0:50:04 | |
but new charges were brought against Balakrishnan himself. | 0:50:04 | 0:50:08 | |
It emerged that as well as having had sex with Sian, | 0:50:08 | 0:50:12 | |
Balakrishnan has sexually abused two other women over a period of years, | 0:50:12 | 0:50:17 | |
both of whom had fled The Collective by the early '90s. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:21 | |
The first incident with Ms A | 0:50:23 | 0:50:28 | |
was when she was | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
called into Mr Balakrishnan's bedroom. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
It had never happened before. She didn't know why. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:37 | |
And without warning, he kissed her. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:44 | |
Mr Balakrishnan then began to summon Ms A to his bedroom, | 0:50:45 | 0:50:51 | |
and where the sexual abuse that had begun with a kiss | 0:50:51 | 0:50:57 | |
then became more extreme in nature. | 0:50:57 | 0:51:01 | |
And became... | 0:51:01 | 0:51:02 | |
..sexual abuse involving oral sex, | 0:51:04 | 0:51:08 | |
forcing her to perform oral sex upon him | 0:51:08 | 0:51:12 | |
and thereafter of sexual intercourse, rape. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:16 | |
The serious sexual abuse of that type continued... | 0:51:17 | 0:51:20 | |
..and involved in addition... | 0:51:21 | 0:51:24 | |
..the defendant ordering her to lick his anus. | 0:51:25 | 0:51:29 | |
She did as she was ordered, | 0:51:30 | 0:51:32 | |
notwithstanding the distress that plainly she was exhibiting. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:37 | |
One of the women who testified in court | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
said that when she tried to leave, | 0:51:45 | 0:51:47 | |
it says Woman A, was how she was called in court, | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
when she tried to leave she said that | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
Sian and Oh and Josie and you | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
all held her down whilst Bala beat her. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
Is that true? | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
God. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:07 | |
I don't think I was there. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:11 | |
I mean, I might have been there but not holding her down like that | 0:52:11 | 0:52:14 | |
for AB to beat her. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
-Let me put it another way, if that was true, Aisha... -Mmm. | 0:52:20 | 0:52:23 | |
..would you feel able to tell me? | 0:52:25 | 0:52:27 | |
Or would it be too shameful? | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
I would tell you if I had done it, you know. | 0:52:31 | 0:52:34 | |
I would also be able to tell you why I did it, | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
but it was against me to do it. | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
It was against my instinct to do it, you know. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:43 | |
So does that mean she's lying? | 0:52:43 | 0:52:46 | |
She might have... | 0:52:47 | 0:52:49 | |
..she might have thought I was there because all three of them, | 0:52:49 | 0:52:53 | |
you know, if it's Sian, Josie and Oh was holding her down | 0:52:53 | 0:52:58 | |
and I was there she might have thought I was also putting her down. | 0:52:58 | 0:53:03 | |
I doubt there's even three of them, | 0:53:04 | 0:53:06 | |
you don't need three people to... | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
You know, maybe just Sian was holding her down. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:12 | |
Cos AB doesn't need anybody to... | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
..to be holding anybody for him to | 0:53:16 | 0:53:19 | |
give you a smack on the face. | 0:53:19 | 0:53:22 | |
A second woman, Woman B, | 0:53:29 | 0:53:32 | |
testified to a similar pattern of sexual abuse. | 0:53:32 | 0:53:35 | |
Balakrishnan was found guilty | 0:53:36 | 0:53:39 | |
and was sentenced to 23 years in prison for crimes | 0:53:39 | 0:53:42 | |
including rape, sexual assault, | 0:53:42 | 0:53:45 | |
child cruelty and the false imprisonment of his daughter. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:49 | |
This is a miscarriage of justice. | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
It's the state taking their revenge | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
because we were flourishing in Brixton, | 0:53:55 | 0:53:58 | |
where we had our centre. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:00 | |
Sorry to interrupt, | 0:54:00 | 0:54:01 | |
but that's just nonsense. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:03 | |
I mean, the judge found your husband | 0:54:03 | 0:54:07 | |
and your guru to be a narcissistic, violent rapist. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:12 | |
-He's completely wrong. -He's not. -He's completely wrong. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:16 | |
I was living in the same house, he's completely wrong. | 0:54:16 | 0:54:20 | |
I'm sad for Josie but that's her choice, | 0:54:20 | 0:54:23 | |
so I have to respect her choice. | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
And why are you sad for her? What are you sad about? | 0:54:26 | 0:54:29 | |
I'm sad that she can't... | 0:54:31 | 0:54:33 | |
can't free her mind from the spell of... | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
..of the cult. | 0:54:37 | 0:54:39 | |
Aisha is now 72, and is living in sheltered housing. | 0:54:56 | 0:55:00 | |
Was any aspect of Bala's political experiment, | 0:55:04 | 0:55:07 | |
was any aspect of that a success, would you say? | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
I think the issue about... | 0:55:12 | 0:55:15 | |
..loving somebody who is not your own, | 0:55:17 | 0:55:21 | |
I think that is a success. | 0:55:21 | 0:55:24 | |
That every child | 0:55:28 | 0:55:30 | |
has the right to live properly, to be loved, to be cared. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
Do you see there's a contradiction there, Aisha, | 0:55:37 | 0:55:39 | |
because Bala's has gone to prison for abusing Katy? | 0:55:39 | 0:55:42 | |
Yes, but | 0:55:44 | 0:55:46 | |
I mean... | 0:55:46 | 0:55:47 | |
..we now know how Katy felt about it, and in the future, | 0:55:49 | 0:55:55 | |
we know not to do that. | 0:55:55 | 0:55:57 | |
If you can't find a new way then we carry on with the old, I suppose, | 0:56:03 | 0:56:09 | |
but surely the old hasn't worked, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:11 | |
so we still have to find what is better. | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
Katy is doing her best to leave the indoctrination of her past behind. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:29 | |
She's attending college and has recently moved | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
out of supported accommodation into a flat of her own. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:36 | |
When she first came, yes, she was 30 years old | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
in the way that we measure age, but she wasn't. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:44 | |
She was much probably nearer to ten or 11 or something like that. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:48 | |
But we've almost seen this journey through the ages, I think, | 0:56:48 | 0:56:51 | |
and I think she's getting very close to her numerical age now. | 0:56:51 | 0:56:55 | |
-Yes. -I think she's in her 20s now. -Yes. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:58 | |
-What about Bala, do you hate him? -No. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
Why don't you hate him, Katy? He stole 30 years of your life. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:09 | |
Yes, I know. | 0:57:09 | 0:57:12 | |
I did used to hate him because I had no other... | 0:57:12 | 0:57:17 | |
I just felt completely powerless, so I did used to hate him then. | 0:57:17 | 0:57:23 | |
But life is also very short. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:26 | |
There's no time to be spent on | 0:57:26 | 0:57:28 | |
hatred and anger towards other people. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:31 | |
And also, when Nelson Mandela said that... | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
..you are still in prison if you hold on to your anger, | 0:57:36 | 0:57:39 | |
hatred and bitterness. | 0:57:39 | 0:57:41 | |
So... | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
I would like to reconcile with him in the future, yes. | 0:57:44 | 0:57:47 | |
If he wants that, | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
but you can't clap with one hand, so... | 0:57:51 | 0:57:54 | |
# He walked into my life | 0:57:57 | 0:58:00 | |
# And now he's taking over | 0:58:02 | 0:58:04 | |
# And it's beautiful | 0:58:06 | 0:58:09 | |
# Yes, it's beautiful | 0:58:11 | 0:58:14 | |
# I've gone with better looking guys | 0:58:14 | 0:58:17 | |
# He's gone with prettier looking girls | 0:58:19 | 0:58:22 | |
# But now we're beautiful... # | 0:58:24 | 0:58:26 |