Episode 2 Arts Troubleshooter

'My name's Michael Lynch and,

'after running some of the world's biggest cultural institutions,

'I think the UK's are among the best.'

People like going to places like London and Britain

because they get to see a lot of things

that they don't have in other places.

I think the arts really define the Brand of Britain.

But now, Britain's broke

and arts organisations are vying with welfare and education

for their share of the public purse.

A lot of them will, you know,

find it much too hard to survive over, you know, this next year.

'I think that's a real tragedy for, um, for Britain.'

One of the things you've always had, you know,

over hundreds of years but, more importantly, you know,

over the last 20 or 30, is the quality of what you do artistically.

You know, you pretty much lead the world.

'After running the Opera House back home in Sydney,

'I left Australia and came over to the UK ten years ago

'to overhaul Southbank Centre in London.

'What I've mostly done is instigate change,'

and then do the change and then get out.

'During my time there, I doubled visitor numbers,

'raised the cash to refurbish Royal Festival Hall

'and transformed it into the most dynamic arts centre in the world.

'Now, I'm going to help two unique organisations

'whose futures are under threat -

'the UK's only operating Regency theatre.'

Wow! A brilliant space!

'And the only classical ballet company in the North of England.

'They're tackling unprecedented cuts...'

I am sitting here at the moment with this half a million pounds hole

in our budget and I've run out of actual options.

'..Operational issues...'

-I, I find that the seat I was sitting in pretty uncomfortable.

-OK.

I guess the big challenge, you know, that I'd put to you is -

what are you going to do about it?

'..And financial peril.'

I admire your pluck - I just think the reality is,

you're heading into another year where you are very much on the edge

and, unless you've got some magic,

the challenges are very big.

'I think change in Britain is quite difficult.

'I think there is, to some extent, an unquestioning belief

'that the way we've been doing it

'is the way that we can keep on doing it.

'Well, look what happened to your Empire.'

Bury St Edmunds, in Suffolk,

is a picture postcard market town at the heart of Middle England.

Steeped in history,

the town is home to one of the cultural gems of the Georgian era.

Welcome to this very august place.

You are standing on flagstones now

where the cream of Bury society has gathered.

Built in 1819, the Theatre Royal was taken back to its original form

by a £5 million restoration that ran from 2005 to 2007.

This 350-seater is the only operating Regency theatre left in Britain.

I love the feeling that we're...

involved in restoring a,

a lost piece of culture

to the public canon.

But lately, ticket sales are down.

So you'd like to confirm all 43...

And, in these tough times, the theatre,

like many others across the country, is concerned about its future.

The recession worries me enormously.

It's a very scary time

and, quite understandably,

going out to the theatre

or going out anywhere is something that has to be low down

on the priority list at the moment.

I do believe that theatres in, in towns like this in,

in these sorts of communities

have a very important part to play.

If we're talking about, you know a "five-a-day",

if you like, for, for people's health and wellbeing,

then the Theatre Royal should be one of those things.

Unanticipated costs, many arising from the restoration,

have led to a historical debt of £170,000,

equivalent to 10% of their annual turnover of £1.7 million.

The theatre's management have had to take action.

They've already laid off 17 of around 50 staff,

and have hired a new chief exec,

with a brief to deliver financial stability.

It does feel as if we've got one chance to get this right

because there's no financial fat in the organisation.

'We're just about keeping, keeping our heads above water.'

We have to break even and make surplus,

and we have to attack that, that deficit.

'Simon's taking over from Colin Blumenau.'

Uh, let's just do the one on the boats, uh, where Corinna joins in.

'After 15 years as joint chief executive and artistic director,

'Colin will now focus on the creative role,

'programming more than 200 unique events a year

'as well as writing and directing some of their in-house production.'

The organisation is under-capitalised,

it's under-funded and it's over-ambitious.

And although those three things I perfectly well understand,

but will keep pushing for the development of the ambition

because otherwise, why bother?

'I started my career running small theatres back in Australia.

'Regional theatres have thrived in the UK for hundreds of years.

'It would be a tragedy if any of them were to close.

'Small theatre's always the birthplace for big theatre.'

It's hard to find an actor or designer or director

in the performing arts business who didn't start his or her career

in a small theatre somewhere.

'I think the difficulty now is that the landscape

'is so much more competitive.

'In the land of the brands the, you know, the small theatre is,'

you know, potentially another casualty.

'Reducing staff numbers has given the Theatre Royal a financial buffer,

'but they also need to find other ways

'of increasing their annual income.

'Although they're subsidised,

'most of their income comes from the box office.

'Just 8% of their annual income

'comes from national funding body the Arts Council,

'with another 12% from local government.

'12% comes from their in-house fundraising.

'But the lion's share, a whopping 60%, comes from ticket sales.'

-Morning, all.

-Hello.

-Hi.

-Have a seat.

-Nice to be coming to...

'I'm meeting the senior management team

'to hear about the challenges for the year ahead.'

So the biggest funder, erm, are the audiences,

and in commercial terms, of course,

that's the most market-sensitive area of all

Uh, we're seeing audiences at, er, 60, 60...67, 68% of capacity.

You know, that's a good starting point.

We, we also perhaps fear that there are audiences out there

who were perhaps loyal to the organisation who...

who have drifted for whatever reason.

Maybe that's related to the refurbishment project or not.

Because you were closed for 18 months

and you didn't have work out on the road?

Some of the older audiences who've been at the building,

er, in the pre-restoration period

and sat in the lovely squeaky Victorian seats

or the loose box chairs

feel that the new seats are not what they wanted.

Before its restoration, the theatre had velvet-covered flip-up seats.

These were replaced by a modern interpretation

of bench-like Georgian seating.

The, the fact that the seats are not good, um, is still being...

that's still being held by our, by audiences who aren't coming.

You hear it a lot.

You know, you take a taxi ride, you ask about the seats,

you ask about the Theatre Royal, sooner or later you'll be told that,

"Oh, well, I don't go any more because of the seats."

And a lot of my customers say that.

Rather than saying,

"I don't come to the theatre because I'm not a theatre person,"

they say, "Oh, it's cos the seats are uncomfortable."

So, they, they, that has become a kind of a little catchphrase.

Even amongst people that don't come.

The good news is that our audience levels haven't decreased.

-We've just changed our audience...

-Erm, replaced them...

And coming off the building project, you don't have reserves

or endowments or any of those other things

that are going to provide you with a safety cushion.

No, we don't. The, the organisation has no reserves whatsoever

-and carries an accumulated deficit.

-Yep.

There is no, there is no security upon which to borrow, and...

So you're very much dependent on, you know,

the goodwill of your bankers really, at this point in time?

We're completely dependent on the goodwill of our punters.

No, I understand that part.

Well, because...they're our bank, er...

And we've done...

'I'm really interested in working with Theatre Royal

'because part of their programme is producing their own unique work.

'Last financial year, they staged six in-house productions

'but, to save money and minimise the risk of losses,

'they're doing just three this year.

'They've chosen the first two and Colin's written both -

'a musical play about Georgian highwayman Dick Turpin

'and the pantomime Dick Whittington.

'Each year, Colin and the team's pantos bring in a profit

'of around £150,000, crucial to supporting the rest of their work.'

Clearly this year, you know, Dick Turpin, Dick Whittington

are absolutely critical to determining

-where you are going to be next year.

-Yup.

But the, the fact that you're actually taking a piece

that people do not know, have not seen...

Yeah, the only thing it's got going for it

is that it's about somebody they may have heard of.

But, yeah, it's a new play, written by somebody they've never heard of,

with music by somebody they've never heard of,

with a cast they've never heard of,

directed by somebody they've never heard of.

Uh, and we're asking them...

So there's a lot of good faith, but a lot riding on it for,

for both you and for your partners as we move into the next stage.

Yep. In terms of both money and reputation.

Yep, yep. OK, yep.

The knife-edge economics are, are such that, that all...

all of our ducklings have to be swans.

LAUGHTER

In-house productions take up just 12 and a half weeks

of the theatre's annual programme.

The rest is a mixed repertoire of bought-in work,

from professional touring drama

to one-offs such as big-name stand-ups and famous singers,

as well as local amateur dramatics and community productions.

They also have a dynamic education programme.

There used to be a door in the middle there...

This financial year they plan to spend just over £320,000

on in-house productions and £190,000 on bought-in work.

Since the restoration, they've staged 26 of their own productions,

'all without any extra money from the Arts Council,

'who only contribute towards the work they buy in.

'They're one of the few small subsidised theatres

'who continue to produce their own work without Arts Council funding.'

I can understand why they want to produce work themselves,

you know, particularly in that circumstance, because, you know,

you'd want to try and create some connection between what the work is

and what the theatre is.

But they've not been funded to create their own work

and, you know, clearly that's put them under,

quite significant pressure.

'And I guess that's a dilemma

'that the theatre's been facing for a few years.'

Producing your own work is one of the most expensive ways

'of putting on shows, so Colin needs

'to keep a keen eye on the commercial.

'Since Simon's arrival, Colin's now working three days a week,

'so I'm going to see him at home.'

-Colin, Michael Lynch...

-Hi!

'Colin's not just a director and playwright -

'in the '80s, he spent seven years

'playing PC Taffy Edwards in The Bill.'

I started as an actor and then,

gradually took on, er, writing, directing...

-So you were writing The Bill...

-Yes, I wrote a couple of episodes of The Bill early on.

-Oh, OK.

THEY CHUCKLE

'Since the restoration, the theatre's developed a specialist strand

'in resurrecting previously forgotten Georgian plays.'

Yeah, that's the one we re-opened with in, in 2007.

That's Black-Eyed Susan.

But had anyone ever done that before?

Yeah, no, it was the most popular play of the 19th century,

without exception. Absolutely the most popular play.

And it was done right up until the middle of the 20th century

and then people stopped doing it, because it fell out of favour.

'The theatre's got an archive of undiscovered Georgian pieces.

'This will be the first year since 2007 that they're not staging one.'

What do you see as the prospects for, you know,

future pieces of, of that repertoire?

If we start with Black-Eyed Susan as the most successful, which it was,

it played to 103% capacity or whatever it was...

it ended up playing to.

It still lost us tens of thousands of pounds.

Uh, which we can't afford. Er...

And why was that? Because of the cast size, the...

Yeah, it costs a lot of money to put that many people on stage

in a production of that quality.

And, consequently, every time we do a piece of Georgian work,

we have to live up to that quality standard.

And the, the consequence of that is every time we do it,

we lose money on it.

-And you were never intending you would just do Georgian work...

-Absolutely not.

It was, you know, clearly... maintain a balance between produced work by the theatre

and other work coming in as part of other people's touring circuits.

And, indeed, we produce far more, and have produced far more,

non-Georgian work than we have Georgian work.

And we continue to do that.

Why this year did you choose to do the, the Dick Turpin piece?

I think we decided that,

that what we needed to do was a solid middle-scale piece

that would attract an audience because they knew, er, the subject matter

and Dick Turpin most people have heard of.

The, the sources I've used to inform and write the play,

have all been Georgian. 18th century.

'I can only count on a couple of fingers'

the number of Georgian plays

that have probably made any money anywhere ever,

except during the Georgian period.

'To make a new piece of work work in, you know,

'the regional context is, I think, incredibly difficult.'

I think you add a double degree of difficulty

if you decide to do either Georgian plays that nobody knows

or that you create, you know, new work you've written yourselves,

degree of difficulty - about 9.9.

Now I want to turn my attention

to the other issue I'm going to focus on.

I've tackled a few hard sells in my time,

but here it seems comfort could be the key to getting bums on seats.

-If I sit too long on a hard seat, I can get cramp in my legs.

-Right.

And so if they did something about the seats,

-you'd feel much more comfortable?

-I'd go back, yeah.

What are your in principle objections to what it is now?

I don't think it's such a comfortable place to sit in, apart from anything else.

I know everybody says that the chairs are so uncomfortable,

but it is an important part of going to the theatre, comfort, isn't it?

If you sit on those seats without a cushion, they are not comfortable.

I think before, you were used to going in, and you were like

sitting in a cinema in a comfy chair with padding round

-and tip-up seats and everything.

-It's not like that now.

I have one friend who doesn't go any more

because when he's been sitting at the theatre for a performance,

he has backache for ages afterwards.

-Well, that's not a good look, is it?

-No, so he's given up going.

I'm worried that the seats are still a talking point,

four years since they were first unveiled.

Clearly, the problem of the seats

ain't going to go away, it'll only get worse

and the longer they let the public perception ride,

the less attractive it becomes

for people to want to make that jump into supporting them.

The restoration was undertaken

in partnership with both the Heritage Lottery Fund

and the theatre's leaseholder, the National Trust,

and given the building's Grade I listed status,

with input from English Heritage.

I think the theatre is immeasurably...

..better for having had the restoration.

There are things wrong with the restoration, as we all know,

and when I die and they cut my heart open,

it'll probably say "seats" on it.

Dealing with the seats now falls to Simon, as incoming chief exec.

'He spent 17 years running regional theatres and arts organisations.

'As well as fielding complaints about comfort,

'he's got an extra challenge with the folding box seats.'

-Are you in?

-Yeah.

-Good.

So, this looks like a valiant attempt.

The problem is, it is very complicated.

You know, it was a neat idea to make it look like a heritage theatre

but long-term, I don't think it's ever going to work.

You've got a big problem, haven't you?

That's tens of thousands of pounds of...

Even if you just change the box seats,

-it'll cost a substantial amount of money.

-It won't be cheap.

About twelve months ago, it was before my time,

an alternative seating proposal was put forward

and we had a prototype box

and we invited the audiences to comment on that particular thing

so there is a little bit of evidence there.

-And what happened?

-It was a positive response.

I need to look at the detail of that, before moving forward.

I guess I'd want to know before I invested more money in changing it,

you know, what are the gripes?

-You're quite right.

-And so I think that needs some systematic analysis

of who the people are, what are they talking about?

Is the problem here the same as the problem down there?

What I want to do about this,

as the man at the top of this organisation right now,

is to make an acknowledgement to our audiences and the community

that we acknowledge that they're not right - for whatever reason,

they're not right and we need to do something about it.

'Simon will have to do something big and visible

'to turn the tide of public perception.

'It was probably quite brave of Simon to let me come in.

'I think the first six months in any organisation

if you're the chief executive

is the hardest period in being able to stamp some authority on it.

Clearly that's, in his case, much more difficult,

when you've got the outgoing chief exec

already, you know, down the end of the corridor.

It's June, and three months before Dick Turpin opens,

Colin's in London for a read-through

with the play's director, Abigail Anderson.

Does it feel weird announcing yourself? Like, how does that work?

It's my first chance to get a glimpse of the work.

The introductions and the stuff to the audience

is about, uh, the characters using the audience as jury

for the ultimate question about whose version is right.

Turpin was chosen

because we thought we could maximise our potential income out of it,

because of the name of Turpin and because it was a musical.

That's one of the things that we're trying to explore,

trying to develop a more profitable way,

or at least a more sustainable way, of creating work.

To reduce costs, Dick Turpin will have just five actors,

half as many as the smallest Georgian play.

As well as playing for two-and-a-half weeks in Bury,

the production will go on a six-week tour.

Playing additional venues means more potential revenue

but it also means an increased wage bill

that takes the production budget up to £100,000.

First to the house of the widow Shelley of Loughton!

Oh...

Ned Rust!

Samuel Gregory.

And Dick Turpin.

New work is, you know, of its nature, much riskier.

I'll do it.

I would have thought in the present circumstances,

people would be more risk-averse

about buying a new piece that no-one's seen,

it hasn't been reviewed, they have no knowledge of it.

If it's a turkey, it'll sort of be barbecued by Christmas.

The key strategic decisions for Dick Turpin and the panto

have already been taken,

so I want to help with ideas for their next in-house production.

I'm at The Guardian to see a keen admirer of the theatre,

one of the country's leading critics, Michael Billington.

I think it's one of the most beautiful theatres in the British Isles.

As you know, it's very intimate,

-it's kept that sort of Georgian... what is it, 1819 framework?

-1819.

So I think they need lots of different strands to their programme

and possibly should try to attract name actors,

starry actors to come and work there because these days,

audiences will always flock if there's a name they can recognise

and that part of the world seems to me to be a home, or second home,

for quite a lot of distinguished actors.

Bill Nighy, I know, for example, has a base up in Suffolk.

Why not get him to come and work, do a restoration comedy?

No, that's a fantastic idea. Your point about the actors, I assume,

stands for the ability to bring in a name director at some point...

-Why not?

-..to shape a piece in a very special place?

-Any theatre these days depends upon vitality.

-You've got to shake it up.

The vitality of the directors.

I mean, there's a very good example I can give you.

There's a beautiful theatre in Northampton,

an old Victorian theatre that was not much paid attention to

and then a guy called Rupert Goold took it over

and suddenly started doing these amazing productions,

and often inviting a few names in as well

and we all started beetling up the M1 to go to Northampton.

Now that's one of the major regional theatres.

And I think we have a stream of very good directors

and I think that's what Colin should be trying to tap into.

The likes of Dame Judi Dench and Sir Peter Hall

supported the theatre's restoration, but the great and the good

haven't been involved in its in-house productions since then.

I want to know if star names would pull more locals in.

What sort of things should they be doing to attract someone like you?

I'd like to see bigger names come along,

if they could attract some bigger names.

-Right, so big names in the shows would make a difference to you?

-Yes.

I mean, if it's a good theatre production of Agatha Christie

or a detective...whodunnit, then I think that that would be great.

They've concentrated much more

on doing what I call older-type drama...

-The Georgian repertoire...

-Yes,

-which sometimes doesn't always appeal to me.

-Right.

I have to say, I quite like a musical or the ballet.

-A work that you'd know.

-Yes. Gilbert and Sullivan or something like that.

Audiences in hard times tend to gravitate back to stuff they know

and are much less willing to engage with new work.

I think the National Theatre can afford to do that.

The Royal Court can afford to do that.

I think it's really hard for the Theatre Royal to be believing

there's such an adventurous bunch of theatregoers out in Bury St Edmunds

that are just waiting for the opportunity to see some new work.

It's July. Every two months,

Simon needs to update the theatre's board of trustees on his progress.

The board is made up of some of the area's leading lights from public life

and is chaired by Brian Stewart, OBE.

We start with the... I suppose, start with the bad news

and then we move on to the good news.

We have previously reported, before my time,

an expectation of an operating loss for last year,

and what we're actually reporting now is a set of figures

which is in line with that level of expectation.

What that means is that what you're seeing here

is the impact of errors carried forward over the last two years,

in terms of the way the accounts have been prepared,

which is unfortunate, but there we are.

OK, so we'll move seamlessly on to the management accounts.

They are, you know, encouraging

in a way that the same two months of previous years

have not had that sort of sense of encouragement.

But Simon, or Colin, have you any idea

as to why these figures are as healthy as they are?

The real change in these figures

is the fact that we've made 17 people redundant.

That's where you get the security from.

Discussion moves on to the theatre's next in-house production,

to be staged in Spring 2012.

Just to remind you, it's referred to in our minutes

that we did say we wanted a commercially-safe production

and hopefully you will keep that in mind when choosing what to do?

Nah, I think we'll do a...

Yeah, commercially safe, there is no such thing.

You know what we had in mind.

We'll try and do something commercially attractive.

Colin, I guess in allowing Simon to come in and him to step aside,

was part of a journey that is probably not great for Colin.

It must put him in a somewhat uncomfortable situation

when, you know, if you're raking over the past history,

you have responsibility for it

but you're still dependent on the board for your support

about how much latitude you're given as artistic director.

It's so interesting, isn't it,

that when you're still there when people are raking over the coals,

you have to...

react in a particular way.

Never forget that I used to be an actor

and I can dissemble quite well,

but if somebody criticises the past, it's like saying your baby's ugly.

You know, you just, you... die a little bit inside.

'After yesterday's board meeting,

'I want the spring production to make a big splash.'

Did you feel a bit sensitive when they were talking about,

you know, the back history and the finance issues

and any of that stuff?

-Of course, I'm human.

-Yeah.

There's a bit of you inside, going,

"Well, hold on a minute, that's not quite the case."

I talked to Michael Billington. He's been very supportive of the company

-over quite a long time, I think...

-Yeah, four or five years.

He did make a couple of interesting points.

I just wondered how much you'd given thought about the idea

of a name cast or a name director or local identity.

Name casting, uh, is something that I think we should try

and indeed, in the past,

we have tried to attract, kind of, that calibre of artist.

What I don't want to do

is just put famous names in a well-known piece

and give it to a big-name director to do what they want with.

There's bit of me, and I don't think this is surprising at all,

that says the last five years

has been about discovering how to do this very specific work

in this very specific building

and there are only a couple of us who've done it

-and...I'm protective of it.

-Right.

What it seems to me to give the theatre

is an opportunity to reposition the theatre in a loud way

and then you get your opportunity

with the other productions later in the year

and you give yourself a good jumping-off point

for where you're going to go

in terms of your plan for 2013 and 2014 and beyond.

-Well, that's good, then.

-Yeah, good.

Sorted.

It's really easy to say, "Why don't you cast star names?"

Really easy, and everybody says it all the time.

"Oh, wouldn't it be great if we had so-and-so in it?"

The reality is much harder, much harder.

Despite his reservations,

Colin starts planning for a well-known classic

and is going after some big names.

Hi, it's Colin at the Theatre Royal in Bury St Edmunds.

Hello, can I speak to somebody about Donald Sinden?

Hi, can you tell me who handles Roger Lloyd Pack, please?

'We do fantastic work'

but we don't have the profile that attracts those kind of names

to be able to come and work with us,

nor, evidently, do we have the money to pay their fees.

It's Colin from the Theatre Royal in Bury St Edmunds.

But we should never stop trying.

Hello, could you tell me who I need to speak to about Lynda Baron?

Er, Martin Jarvis.

Tim Brooke-Taylor, please?

Nigel Havers.

I hope that we'll be successful and, er, I shall be surprised when we are.

We should meet and talk before any offer is made, because you may hate me!

Of course, big names can be expensive and difficult to secure.

But I think it's worth it to help establish a new blueprint

for producing at the theatre.

They're more likely to get national publicity,

more likely to get critical response.

And that would apply to trying to sell unknown plays.

Now I guess that gives them the chance to have a life on tour

around the rest of the country.

That's the one thing that 350-seat theatres are quite good at doing,

is creating a production that, you know, can then go on to other places.

But it helps if you've got the right starting point.

He doesn't want to do theatre any more.

# Tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor

# Rich man, poor man... #

It's the end of August and Dick Turpin opens in just three weeks.

Colin and director Abbey are in rehearsals.

# Butcher, tailor, poacher, stealer

-# Rich man, poor man, highwayman.

-#

As the play has evolved, it's become an intricate exploration of the Dick Turpin myth.

The play concerns itself with quite...detailed concepts, quite sophisticated concepts.

I was quite surprised when I got the script that you gave me,

because it seemed less to fit in, possibly,

with the most obvious bums-on-seatsy kind of show.

Say again what the point of this bit is.

So we're starting with a very familiar piece of music and words.

-Then we're going into something a bit coarser in the style of singing.

-Yeah.

Although you have the best intentions when you start to

write a play, you want to write it about a certain thing,

in a certain way - er, it quite often develops a life of its own.

And this, certainly, the central thesis of the play came up, hit me in the face,

and I thought, "Well, I can't ignore it,", despite the fact

that the manager in me, or the programmer in me, was going,

"Don't forget to make it popular, don't forget to make it exciting."

-Yeah - you've written a real play!

-Hurrah!

-Well done.

# ..by his side

# And his pot in his pocket

# Oh, rue the day

# So merry again

# As the game of all games I told him... #

It's only 24 hours to opening night.

# Get to the game... #

While final dress rehearsals are under way,

I want to find out how the box office is doing.

Good morning.

'Head of External Relations, Chris,

'is tracking advance sales for the show's run in Bury.'

So how are things?

-Scary.

-I, I can see that graph!

My eyes are automatically drawn to any graph.

Yeah. It's very nerve-racking at the moment. We open tomorrow night.

We're at a place almost identical to where

-we were this time last year with London Merchant.

-Right.

The London Merchant finished its run at about £25,000

and our target is 48,000.

So you finished 20 grand shy of where you want to be.

Yeah.

In terms of audience, we're at around about 29% of capacity.

We've got to get to between 55-60% of capacity.

-Right. So you're about halfway.

-About halfway.

It doesn't seem to have kicked forward the way we'd like it to have had done.

'The advance sales for the run in Bury are worrying, so I want

'to get a sense of the play's commercial potential for myself.

'It's opening night.'

# Rich man, poor man Highway man

# Thief... #

'Despite slow advance sales,

'it's good to see a first-night house that's two-thirds full.

'It's my first chance to watch one of the theatre's in-house productions

'in this Georgian gem, and to experience the seats for myself.'

-Hello.

-Hello, I'm Karen.

-Hi, Michael Lynch. Good to meet you.

-I'm Helen. Nice to see you.

-Hello. Hi. Good to meet you.

DRUMMING

SOLO VIOLIN PLAYS A MELODY

Unpicking the myth of the highwayman

and his trusty horse Black Bess,

the play's a piece with many elements.

Here, boy!

# Soldier, sailor

# Beggar man thief. #

Is this the Widow Shelley's, Gaffney?

Aye, Ned, the old blower has seven or eight hundred souls by 'er!

# Tinker, tailor, soldier, stealer

# Rich man, poor man, highway man

# Thief! #

Stand and deliver! Your money or your life!

GUNSHOT

He's wounded in the thigh, again.

GUNSHOT

The ball, propelled, flies up, and, smoked-edged and red hot

lodges itself in Tom's breast.

It's very good.

-Very atmospheric.

-Yes. Very energetic.

I think it's brilliant, and the actors are multi-talented,

the singing, the dancing, impersonating animals - it's all very, very good.

And the music is really good.

It's a nice production.

I think they've done great, in the period of rehearsal.

I think the, you know,

director's done a good job to realise the piece.

I think the actors were good.

My question mark is probably over the piece itself.

If you're not interested in Dick Turpin or horses,

then I think it's probably, er, of limited appeal.

'If the play itself is going to be a tough sell, two hours

'in the theatre have got me thinking about my other area of focus.'

APPLAUSE

The seats are very uncomfortable, I think,

and quite complicated when you've got a full box.

'After my experience last night,

'I want to turn my attention back to the seats.'

I just wanted to raise again the issue of the seats

-Oh, yes.

-Yeah.

Having sat there last night, I find that the seat I was sitting in

pretty uncomfortable. It becomes quite difficult when you've got

six people in those boxes, how you move around, how you get out -

and, you know, it's, they're not, they're not fabulous.

And I haven't been... That was really

-the observation from the boxes.

-That's a very fair observation,

exactly what we were getting at when we were talking about that.

And, you know, audiences have come and they've tried

to work out this rather challenging configuration of, of how

the seats work and they've left here feeling negative about it.

I guess the big challenge that I'd put to you is, what you are going to do about it?

We need to get to the root of the problem.

Just to test the waters about what the issues truly are.

We've not for some time gone out to those people

and said, "So what is it?

"Is it about comfort? Is it about this? Is it about that?"

And just testing those, testing potential...

So do you think you're going to do that? Is, er...

I think we, I think we have to take our audiences with us.

With Dick Turpin on the road, the rest of the autumn programme

features an array of unique on-stage events.

# 20 lovesick maidens we... #

They're also busy hooking in the audiences of tomorrow.

In any one year, the theatre has 6,500 children and teens

involved in specialist projects.

This is where the rabble would sit in 1819,

to watch a play, and they would squish right up, up here...

Behind the scenes,

Simon's just got some new visitor feedback on the seats.

So just going through the responses,

"What has effected your enjoyment in a negative way?"

"Very uncomfortable seats, they must surely be a risk."

You know, "Take out the seating", it says here.

Um, there's something here, you know, "What would improve your experience?"

"New seats."

You know, "The current arrangements are painful."

Somebody's written "painful". It's a very emotive term.

There's quite a trend, I guess it's over 80% have actually expressed

that, that, their visits are compromised because of the seating.

So, you know, it's, we can't ignore - look,

someone's written four times there, "Seats, seats, seats, seats!"

You know, well, I can't ignore that sort of comment.

What's important to point out at this stage is that, you know,

I'm the new boy here, there's no history,

I have no history with the building,

I have to respect that history absolutely and in understanding

those issues, we have to be very solution focused.

Before Simon can act

on his research, he needs to get the backing of the board.

He wants to pick up on last year's replacement trial,

but has estimated that replacing the box seats alone could cost

£70,000 - money they don't have in reserve.

I've been around for six months.

I'm a newcomer to all of this. I'm making a proposal

and I'm making a proposal that we agree to

the principle of doing something here.

Now, the devil is going to be in the detail.

It is still a very live issue, so I'm really glad that

the board is now, we're now looking at it.

It's an issue we need to look at

and from a PR perspective, I don't think there's anything wrong

whatsoever with saying, "We're listening".

As a new member, you find a paper of this nature on the agenda,

you think, "Is this some sort of joke?" to be honest.

The phrase "bums on seats" is well known,

and sadly is fundamental to what we're doing.

I think we could have a lot of fun with this as a solution,

I think we could launch a sort of design-a-chair competition with local schools.

Not that we'd have to have the children's design come to fruition!

Don't forget we've already done a replacement trial

and we did invite the public in and they did respond in their masses

and what we got was 50-50 opinion, so it's not that simple, yeah?

There, there's many a slip twixt cup and lip,

but the actual design of the seat, although it's, kind of, process,

is really, really difficult.

But notwithstanding the technical issues. I think we can put that aside.

Well, you can't...

You could still, from the PR perspective of saying

to the people of Bury, go to the Bury Free Press and have, you know,

front-page news, "Come and help us", you know, do it on a massive scale,

in a much more, erm, you know, inclusive way, is what I'm saying.

Have we actually got a solution?

Have we actually got seats that work, are comfortable,

that the public like?

Because, if we haven't, and I know you're, you're, you know, shaking your head,

then all the talk about audience development and competitions

are wrong because we could get it wrong twice.

Yes.

Um, we have got to proceed with a fundamental care,

so much care, I am so scared, sitting around this table, and unless

I've walked into the theatre and sat on the most fantastic seats.

I agree with you a solution is product

but actually in this situation I think that

one of the solutions is the process. That's what we've missed out.

Actually, that IS one of the solutions.

But before we go into process I think we need a few products.

I think we're, we're glad that the issue has been raised

and I think the process will be absolutely as important as the,

as the product, but we need a product first.

So chicken and egg, we need to get that absolutely right,

and the board will no doubt want to come and try any, any new seats as well.

Sadly, that's no guarantee of it being successful!

As we discovered last time.

Indeed, indeed.

If Simon needs 70 grand for new seats,

one way of getting it could be making more money at the box office.

Perhaps we should catch up.

After considering a number of options, they've chosen

their play for next spring,

to be produced by Colin and trainee Polly Ingham.

We looked around at what we had available and we went through

a number of things but have finally lighted on a play called Stagefright,

which is a very exciting thing to be able to do, because it's

a world premiere of a brand new play, er, which looks at the relationship

between a very famous actor of his time, Sir Henry Irving,

and his assistant, one Bram Stoker, who then went on to write, um, Dracula, of course.

The new play is written by an established contemporary playwright

and was signed earlier in the year on the basis that Colin will direct.

In the current climate, if somebody said to you,

"Will you produce three new pieces of work one after the other?",

you'd go, "No, you're mad."

But, in fact, that's what we will have done by the end of March.

Er, I'm quietly...

but very definitely, proud of that.

Because it's very easy to go over old ground.

It's much harder and much more challenging,

but ultimately much more rewarding for the audience,

as well as for the practitioners,

to be part of the creation of something brand-new,

which could be the most exciting thing since sliced bread.

Clearly, I thought giving him the opportunity

of getting a name director to do something there,

to bring in a name cast, was probably the best way to, you know,

lift the visibility of the theatre

and, you know, give it a production that might be able to go somewhere.

He said he was going to do it and then they didn't.

The new production that they're doing next year is directed by Colin

and it's an unknown play and it doesn't have,

at this stage, a name cast, or name anything, in it.

'Meanwhile, Dick Turpin's on tour

'to seven different cities and towns in six weeks.'

# I'll drink to the game of high Toby

# High Toby! #

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

'Initial sales are slow.

'But there are two reviews from leading national critics.'

The Times' Libby Purves was in to see the show whilst it played here

and she gave it four stars. She loved it, which is brilliant.

And then, um, Lyn Gardner was in from The Guardian.

She's a very careful journalist

in looking at, at the way a piece comes across,

but she still calls it "a ripping yarn,"

and again, she gave it three stars.

Hopefully that will help kick ticket sales.

'But good reviews aren't always enough.'

-What's the smallest we've had? About 25?

-Yeah.

25 people and you're talking three, four hundred-seaters, so...

-Would you go and see a play about Dick Turpin?

-No.

I don't think we've ever, all of us,

ever been in a show that has struggled so...

It's got, it's got to be, I think, a reflection of the times, really.

There's no spare money around. And if people are going to go to the theatre

they'll probably go and see Billy Elliot or something like that,

something that they know what they're getting rather than a new piece.

'It's November, and the tour's got just a couple more venues to go.

'I'm meeting Simon and Chris for a Dick Turpin "wash-up",

'an analysis of the figures.'

Just wanted to catch up on where you'd got on the ticket front?

You know, the results for Dick Turpin.

And, you know, how things are playing out.

What did you finish up at? What was that percentage-wise?

-40...

-40...

Overall we're looking at just short of 45%.

-Right.

-You know, of capacity.

And the dream would have been 60, but, er, but it's a tough world.

What about on the road?

Audiences on the road were not brilliant

but they were good in some of the venues as well.

A couple of venues had very good audiences.

What sort of impact is it going to have on, you know, the year?

Well, in terms of...

the audience have come away cheering it and wanting to see more.

-No, no, what I...

-In terms of...

I just want to get a handle on...

We're still on the road, so you can't tell that until...

We can't tell the figures until we finish. We've got Ipswich...

Talk to us in a fortnight

and we'll tell you exactly what that position is.

What do you think didn't work in terms of it?

We need to be careful with phrases like "doesn't work,"

you know, or "didn't work,"

because artistically and creatively and critically the piece did work.

Yeah, look, you know, I'm only talking about

working in terms of, you had a bottom line which, you know,

from your point of view and from the board's point of view,

they clearly said, "We need to get this company...

"We've done some difficult things over the course of the last year.

"We need to get this company out of trouble".

I guess the fact that your next new production

-is Colin's next production.

-Stagefright, yeah.

You don't want the same result for Stagefright

that you got for Dick Turpin. That would really put you under pressure.

It's a quality piece, it's a great script.

It's engaging and captivating

and it's got all those elements of good entertaining,

entertaining theatre. It's accessible.

As a piece, as a piece of theatre,

it speaks about what this organisation is

and how it cares about quality drama for its local audiences.

It ticks all the boxes as far as I'm concerned.

Just to take a safe programme in line to say,

"We're going to open for eight months of the year.

"We're going to do the, sort of,

"the potboilers, light entertainment stuff." We would lose funding.

Oh, no, I admire your pluck. I'm like...do...you know,

I just think the reality is, you know, you're heading into,

you know, another year where you are very much on the edge,

and unless you've got some magic and you've got some sure-fire success,

the challenges are very big.

Adventurous programming often gets the biggest audience.

So we know that we have an audience that wants to come out

and see exciting stuff. Event theatre, whatever it might be.

So Colin's trying to do that balancing

between finding things that are exciting

but also finding things that feel familiar to the audience

so that they feel they know what they're coming into and that...

if there was a problem with Dick Turpin,

people didn't really know what they were coming in to.

OK. Thanks, guys.

'A fortnight later, the final result for Dick Turpin ticket sales

'is £70,000 - a total loss of 30,000.'

We just called it wrong.

Turpin isn't the name that we thought it was going to be,

and I'm quite happy to hold up my hands and say "We got it wrong".

We're incredibly proud of the piece of work,

but sadly that pride doesn't get reflected on the balance sheet.

'One big advantage of Stagefright is it only has two roles,

'so it'll keep the wage bill down, and is a great opportunity

'to try and secure named actors without blowing the budget.'

In my experience as a programmer and a theatre manager,

good thrillers are always really well-attended.

This is a good thriller.

It's about Bram Stoker and Henry Irving.

Certainly, most people will have heard of Bram Stoker

as the creator of Dracula.

And so I think it's got stuff going for it

that will persuade people to come and see it.

'Colin and Polly are in London to discuss possible actors

'with the play's writer, Michael Punter.'

Like I say to everybody, whenever we talk about famous names,

I'm out of my depth. I don't really know many people.

Jason Watkins. Fantastic actor.

I don't know who he is. Who else have you got?

Oh, Simon Greenall. Simon Green...

I don't know him, either.

My thoughts on this, and I haven't been able to get them out of my head

-since I thought of them, is Alistair McGowan.

-Yeah.

I realise, the more we talk about name casting,

the less I know about it.

I tend not to know very many famous people.

The person who's quite like that,

in terms of being a comedian who acts, is Russ Abbott.

There is a little thing inside me that says,

"You are a representative of a small regional theatre,

"going to agents of big national

"or international celebrities, going,

'Please come and work with us.'" And however much I convince myself

that I'm perfectly justified in doing that,

there's a little bit of me that says, "You've got to be joking".

This is a conversation held in hope more than expectation.

'As winter draws in, advance tickets for the spring season go on sale.'

Stagefright hasn't got friends discount on,

so they're going to be 16.

So there's no friends discount because it's a preview night.

'Hopefully, over the next few weeks,

'Stagefright will start to do some box office magic.

'It's my last day in Bury St Edmunds, and before I leave,

'I'm intrigued to hear how Colin sees the future of the theatre.'

# No point competing You can get eaten

# Under the sea... #

'He's in rehearsals for the panto.

'He writes and directs the festive box office smash most years,

'delivering the most significant chunk of annual ticket sales.'

# Yes, I am the one with the dorsal fin... #

'But I really hope, that as well as being good for their reputation,

'Stagefright also brings in a profit.'

# Right here on the ocean floor

# Under the sea

# Under the sea

# Here in the ocean Such a commotion

# No time for tea. #

The first point I wanted to make

is that there's potentially a problem

in terms of the nature of, you know, a new play

off the back of, you know, a number of other new plays,

that you need to start stacking the dice a little bit in your favour.

One of the things about the idea

of being able to cast up, say, Stagefright, with name actors,

can help make that production into something that gives you

a great opportunity to kick off some of the disappointments

and the difficulties. I really do think you should push hard to,

you know, to try and find those people.

We will try for as long and as hard as we can to make that work

but we have to do the production, come what may.

What do you really like doing? Do you like directing?

Do you like writing? Do you like running theatre companies?

I like doing all three.

Er, I like writing more and more.

I like managing less and less.

And directing...I have a love-hate relationship with it.

I love it when it's going well

and there's a moment in every production where I go,

"I never want to do this again".

My concern, probably, is that, in the decisions that you've made

in the last year, you know, allowing, you know,

the choice of, you know, a new chief executive to come in,

cutting your own team, cutting your own time back,

that to some extent, I get the feeling that you're in limbo.

The idea that you are very much the artistic guider of the organisation.

I think that's hard to do.

Three days a week alongside all the other things that you're doing.

I agree with that.

And so my view would be, probably, you know,

you said your focus wanted to be writing and directing.

That's what I'd be doing.

If I were to walk away now,

it would cost an awful lot more to replace the functions that I fulfil.

Because then they'd have to pay for directors, writers,

artistic directors, programmers.

They'd have, you know, they'd have to find a different way

of structuring that, which, er, which would inevitably cost more.

Yeah, but I don't think that can just motivate, you know,

your thinking on that.

From that point of view, they'll have to solve that problem.

You know, it's one of the problems, the "hit by the bus" syndrome.

You know, if it happens, you've got to deal with it.

Isn't there an ABBA song that goes, "Should I stay or should I go?"

Uh, yeah, no. I mean, those are the things I think about all the time,

and have done ever since I started, because that's...

..that's the job.

You can only stay as long as you're doing...

..the right sort of thing,

and so I'm acutely aware that the sell-by date exists.

The trouble is, I don't when it is.

FAIRGROUND MUSIC CHIMES

'There's no doubt that the theatre's team

'are absolutely dedicated to keeping this small gem going,

'and I really hope they succeed.

'But the future for Theatre Royal,

'and other small theatres like it, remains as uncertain as ever.'

# Half the population's dead

# Our lives are filled with constant dread

# Here on the Highgate Hill we're safe

# Away from the rats and the smelly sewers... #

The challenges are still very real and very present for them.

I fundamentally think it's probably up to Simon,

what Simon's going to do, what decision Colin's going to make,

you know, to be able to make sure that they address the challenges

and get themselves back into a position of some stability.

If small theatre goes, big theatre's in trouble.

It's bad for the whole theatre ecology.

All the people that rely on it for a livelihood.

And I think that's an incredible waste

of something you've built up over, you know, hundreds of years.

These are fragile ecosystems.

And, you know, if you don't actually look after them

and you don't support them, they're not going to be there in,

you know, five or ten years' time.

CHEERING AND APPLAUSE

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd