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This film contains very strong language
You get a sense of the scale and ambition
of the Church of Scientology from the footage of their galas.
They look more like a Hollywood awards show
than anything recognisably spiritual.
A religion created by a sci-fi writer,
and now run by a mysterious and unapproachable leader...
..whose disciples include top Hollywood actors.
For years, my dream was that I might be the first journalist to see
another, more positive side of the church.
Their commercials promise enlightenment,
using techniques that combine spirituality and science...
..with the ultimate aim of a planet free from insanity,
crime and war.
The videos boast of the church's global reach
and followers, they say, are in the millions.
Watching their promotional films,
I dreamed of experiencing their practises first-hand.
I made repeated requests to be allowed inside,
but my approaches were all turned down.
Gradually, I realised they were never going to let me in.
But inspired by their religious film-making,
I began thinking of another way inside
that was still true to the spirit of Scientology.
I've been in touch with one of the
most prominent ex-members of Scientology.
His name is Marty Rathbun
and my hope is that he can help me realise this idea I have.
For many years, he was one of the
most senior figures in the whole church.
Their photos show him in uniform next to David Miscavige,
the church leader.
And then, in 2004, he left
and started giving interviews about the church and his role within it.
I was basically Mr Fix It for Scientology for a number of...
Well, a couple of decades, frankly.
I mean, I was...
Wherever there was a fire, I was out there to put it out.
-Do you need a push?
The church now regards him as deeply untrustworthy.
This Louis is a yoga master.
But for more than 20 years, he was the consummate insider.
It feels pretty secure.
And he still believes in aspects of Scientology.
You want to just get some B-roll?
Have you driven in LA before, Louis?
I've been living in LA for the last year.
-Get out of town.
-Where do you live?
North Hobart, very close to the Celebrity Centre.
I'll be darned.
And we've flown him in from Texas, where he now lives,
and brought him back to Scientology's birthplace,
and his old home, Los Angeles.
-I've got my written response from the church.
-I wanted to mention that.
And what they mention is that Mr Theroux
had been in direct communication
with and had interviewed bitter
anti-Scientologist Marty Rathbun.
Is that what poisoned them against our production?
Is that what closed the door to us, do you think?
Or would they never have taken part?
-You can't film me.
-We're not filming you.
You are. You have the camera in my face.
-Turn the camera off.
-So what are you doing a documentary about?
It's about the Church of Scientology.
You should interview her.
Well, maybe we will, but we should probably finish what we were doing.
Can we finish what we're doing?
I'm an actress and...
Well, we are in LA.
Yeah, but, no, I mean, I've done
over 45 films in French and Spanish...
-..and a lot of things. OK, well, my name is Paz.
How do you spell that?
-That's great. Thank you so much.
They sent her over.
-Don't you think?
No, they're not this sophisticated.
-They're not that sophisticated.
You would have done that in your day.
No, I wouldn't have done that in my day.
The founder of Scientology, L Ron Hubbard,
was a writer of pulp fiction
and in 1950 he published a self-help book called Dianetics.
It became the basis for an entire religion,
teaching that we are all immortal spirits called thetans,
who live multiple lifetimes.
Using Scientology processes, we can become enlightened,
remember past lives,
and carry all our present-day memories into future lifetimes.
Over the years, Hubbard won thousands of converts.
Hello. My name is David Miscavige
and I'm very happy that you could
all make it to this important briefing this evening.
And then, in 1986,
there was a gathering of Scientologists
at the Hollywood Palladium
and it was announced that Hubbard had died.
The body he had used to facilitate his existence in this universe
had ceased to be useful
and in fact had become an impediment
to the work he now must do outside of its confines.
The announcement was made in this
famous footage by a young man in his 20s called David Miscavige...
..and he has run Scientology ever since...
..and done so, according to his critics,
in an increasingly unpredictable and volatile fashion.
Joining us live tonight is David Miscavige, whose formal title
is Chairman of the Board of the Religious Technology Centre,
the organisation which manages Dianetics and Scientology.
Mr Miscavige took over as the head of Scientology in 1987,
following the death of the Church's founder, L Ron Hubbard.
In 1992, he spoke to Ted Koppel, the host of Nightline.
It was an unusually revealing encounter
and to date his only TV interview.
So we've got actors coming in to be David Miscavige
and, for me, the idea really is to recreate...
You know, we can't get the real Miscavige,
but we can create our own Miscavige,
using lines from that rare Ted Koppel interview
to help Marty to cast him.
I'm going to lean heavily on Marty.
I'm conscious it's his version and it's seen in hindsight after an
acrimonious split from the church.
-How you doing?
-My name's Chris Garrett.
Shall I...? I mean, should I sit in?
What do you think? Should I do a Koppel voice?
No. No, it's cheesy.
-It's up to you, Louis, whatever...
-Yeah, I'll just do...
I'd like to begin, Mr Miscavige,
with, I guess, the kind of broad question
perhaps folks at home may be asking themselves right now.
..perhaps folks at home may be asking themselves right now,
but let me be the guinea pig for a moment.
See if you can explain to me why I would want to be a Scientologist.
Because you care about yourself and life itself.
-Because you care about life... Wait, hold on.
-Yourself and life itself.
-Scientology, the word means study of life,
study of knowledge...
..and that's what it is. It takes up all areas of life itself.
Things that are integral and
maxims related to life and very existence.
Let me give you an example. It's better if I take that
because it's such a broad-ranging subject.
It's better if I take that because
it covers such a broad range of subjects.
That's an area of communication, being able to
communicate with the world around you and everyone here.
Good, good, good.
I just... I want it to feel as real as possible,
but I also... I want to get Marty back into the head space of where he
was when he was inside the church.
And we're using this rare bit of footage because he was there in the
studio, at Miscavige's side, when it was recorded.
Thank you so much. Thank you.
It's not Miscavige.
I'm serious, you know, all these guys that you would like,
-they're no good.
-Well, no, but he actually...
This is not a minor game we're playing here.
Every man, woman and child, their
moral future depends on us succeeding.
This is the attitude, this is what you're missing.
You've got to have that intensity, OK?
Because this is not some minor game.
I thought he had that.
This is dying, not just dying in this lifetime,
it's dying and dying and dying and dying,
and being a smouldering ember that floats through space,
hurtling through space.
-It's literally that if we don't succeed.
Is that something he would say?
Absolutely. It's right in the policy
letters in Keeping Scientology Working,
"We'd rather have you dead than incapable."
That's the training attitude.
-That was your mind-set?
For 27 years?
Well, for 22 years.
The first five years, I was pretty laid-back.
It's scary, huh?
It makes you wonder what I'm capable of, right?
-A little bit.
I'll tell you what, let's stick with me, OK?
So far in life, I haven't had a whole lot of trouble communicating.
Now, see if you can communicate to me what it is that you're going to
be able to do for me that makes me a better communicator.
Well, number one, I would never try to talk you into that Scientology is
for you. You see, that's the funny thing about this,
as if I'm now going to give the sales pitch to you on Scientology...
You see that edge?
He's got that down. He's pissed...
But he's not overtly showing it.
But he's combative.
If you want to see something else,
throw any direction at me and I'll just give you another.
Get up and get on my face and put your finger to my chest, and let me
know that my problem is that I buy my own bullshit.
-OK, go ahead.
Who are you to come in here and tell me that what I stand for and what I
have learned, what I have learned, is the right way?
You people are programmed and sold.
Listen to me, you slimy little cocksucker,
you fuck up one more time, I will rip your fucking face off!
-You got that?
-Get with me, motherfucker!
Get personal. Dress the guy down.
I don't want you just to agree with me.
Call him a four-eyed son of a bitch cocksucker.
You're a four-eyed son of a bitch, you cocksucker.
I mean, you had no idea what you
were doing from the beginning and I knew that.
-You had no idea what you
were doing from the beginning and I knew that.
-Shove him against the wall.
-You son of a bitch.
You listen to me.
This is really good.
OK, you're going to fucking do what I tell you next time and you're
going to actually listen to me.
Louis, this is really good.
-From the start.
-You're a cocksucking loser.
You're a piece of shit.
I'm telling you what you're worth.
I'm telling you what you've been doing with your life.
-Don't look away.
-He's got it.
He's got it. This is David Miscavige, right here.
Where were you getting that from?
Uh, I tap into anger very easily...
That's exactly what it is - it's a righteous anger.
That was like being there.
-Thank you so much.
-Thanks a lot, man.
-Take care. OK, cheers.
I'm aware that we're going to the
violence quite quickly and to the sort
of negative characterisation.
But I don't know if we're going to get the sense of why, for 22 years,
you were working hand in glove in a devoted fashion with that guy.
Well, as you said,
you thought it was kind of nice
having your face ripped off up against the wall.
Yeah, but that was playacting.
I know. So what's the difference?
The orthodoxy of the Scientology
religion, so that it forever remains faithful...
He's indignant, but he's also trying to make his case to an
-impartial person, like a judge, right?
Yeah. OK, shall we go?
I am, and since 1987 have been,
the Chairman of the Board of Religious Technology Centre,
a section 501 C3 tax-exempt non-profit religious corporation,
whose sole purpose is to maintain the orthodoxy of the Scientology
-I mean, I would take it down a notch.
-Because I think that went a little too conversational.
Most Scientologists would never meet David Miscavige.
They have normal jobs. They might
volunteer in the church's book shops, which they call orgs.
They don't wear uniforms.
And in LA, many of them are actors.
I grew up in Boston.
Small-town boy with big-town dreams,
so I decided to take the leap to Hollywood and become an actor.
I didn't really have a plan in mind, per se.
I just kind of came here and
just hoped that I would find my way in the business.
So I picked up a copy of Backstage newspaper,
which is the trade newspaper that actors subscribe to that lists
all the different auditions in town and all the different classes.
And there was a huge ad - "How to break into the industry" -
teaching you all the ins and outs of how to make it in Hollywood.
So I took the bus up to the Celebrity Centre and I walk in,
and we went into their theatre room to watch their orientation film.
Right this instant, you are at the
threshold of your next trillion years.
You will live it in shivering, agonised darkness,
or you will live it triumphantly in the light.
-The choice is yours.
-That's the one where he says,
"If, at the end of this, you're not
"convinced that this is for you, you're free to walk away."
It would be stupid, but you can do it.
You can also dive off a bridge or blow your brains out.
Blow your brains out, yeah.
That is your choice.
When you're a new actor and you come to somewhere
like the Celebrity Centre and they're telling you,
"We can help make you someone like the new Tom Cruise,"
you're like, "Oh, wow, that's what I want."
You know, they just tell you it's a course away.
Your happiness is a course away.
If I see someone on the street, at the bus stop,
you'd go up to them and just try to be their friend.
-Give them one of these?
-Give them one of these booklets and say,
"Hey, check out my church."
And if I get you to sign up for services, it helps me because I get
a 10% commission on whatever you buy.
They say it brainwashes people.
It is, it's mind-numbing.
No, no, no. I'm doing the...
They say it brainwashes people.
Do I look like I'm brainwashed to you?
I'm your neighbour. I'm your best friend.
Scientology is an applied religious philosophy.
It's not a religion you just sit down and pray at an altar about.
This is something that you actually apply every single day
in your life - tools to improve yourself.
-Pass them here.
-Oh, my God, really?
There is apparently one million spoken and transcribed L Ron Hubbard
-words in all these books.
-And you paid for all of them?
I paid for all of them.
How much did you pay for all your materials?
For all the book course materials?
Everything. Just for the whole services, books, everything.
-Everything, 50 grand.
It's a simple ohm meter
and there's a very slight amount of electricity actually passing through
your body, although it's imperceptible.
When I address thought that has some trauma connected with it or
some anxiety connected with it, I get a particular type of reading.
It's a device that measures thought.
All right. Is there a particular area of your life that...
..fixates your attention
-or you feel is...? That, there.
-Did you get one?
-Can I answer?
I'm thinking about a time when I was about 11 or 12.
The most basic practise in Scientology is auditing -
it's a form of counselling using a
primitive lie detector called an e-meter.
OK, is there an earlier similar problem?
Basically, you talk about memories and traumas called engrams
-until they no longer register on the machine.
Your needle's floating.
Which is good, right? That means I've cleared something?
I don't know. Do you feel like you've realised something?
I feel like I've made a connection, yeah.
That's basically what a session is.
So how does this relate to Scientology
and this idea of being clear?
OK, you desensitise a lot of these things,
like this thing that gave you a little bit of angst.
I mean, there's tonnes of things
that any given individual has like that.
-That's clear, basically.
Though it's a religion, Scientologists don't worship a God.
Instead, what they offer is a highly detailed,
step-by-step programme of classes and courses, each with a price tag,
and all of it laid out in an extremely complex-looking diagram.
They call the teachings religious technology, or tech.
As you advance up the bridge,
you deal with engrams from past lifetimes.
At the very top are the OT levels.
OT stands for operating thetan
and the possibility of extrasensory abilities.
The most dedicated believers can join Scientology's clergy,
the Sea Org.
You can see them in church photos, styled like a Navy.
Their glossy recruitment posters
depict them as being like warrior monks.
They sign billion-year contracts,
committing all their future lifetimes to saving Earth from ruin.
And while there may be as many as 25,000 Scientologists in the US,
only a fraction are signed up as members of the Sea Org.
And it's within the Sea Org that the most controversial practises are
alleged to have taken place.
We're going down to a little town called Hemet.
And close by Hemet is the headquarters of Scientology,
a legendary location.
We're going there with Mark Headley,
who worked and lived there for 15 years,
from 1990 to 2005, when he blew,
which means he left in an unauthorised fashion.
He later sued the church for keeping him against his will,
but he lost the case.
And like Marty, he's viewed by the church as embittered and a liar.
You know we've been filming with Marty Rathbun?
Yes, I was aware of that.
And you know him, don't you?
-Yes, I do.
-Basically, it's where David Miscavige mainly works,
it's where he runs Scientology from,
and it's where, allegedly, in the years running up to 2005,
there was a reign of terror.
There was actually a time in the mid-1990s when I was being accused
of myself being violent with somebody,
one of my own crew,
and I was being interrogated on an e-meter about this incident.
And Marty was actually standing behind the girl that was doing the
interrogation in the little auditing room with us.
And it just kept going on and on and she'd say, "Did you do this?"
I'd say, "No, I didn't do that."
And, "Did you do this?" "No, I didn't do that."
And then Marty actually just said,
"Listen, let's take a break for a second."
And he cold-cocked me.
Just boom. And he's a big guy, he's much bigger than I am.
-He punched you?
-He punched me square in the jaw, out of nowhere,
I wasn't expecting it.
It was just, "Boom." And then he goes,
"Good, now go back in there and tell her what she wants to hear."
-This is it?
-Yeah, this is it.
We're there. This building up
on the right here, that the cinematography studio.
It's called the Cinecastle.
So they make promotional videos for Scientology in there?
Films and videos.
It looks like you could walk quite close.
If we did, they'd know. I mean, they know we're here right now.
There's cameras right there. We have their attention.
No doubt, 100%.
I'm going to take my lead from you, Mark.
Do you think this is a good place to stop or maybe not?
-Are you OK?
-You just went...
Is it stress or are you just...?
-No, no, I'm fine.
-You're not getting flashbacks?
No, no, I'm not getting flashbacks.
It's called Intbase because it's the international headquarters of
Scientology, but it's also called
Gold Base because it's the headquarters of Gold Studios.
And Gold Studios was a production facility
that L Ron Hubbard himself created,
churning out epic Hollywood-style promotional videos.
When the history of this planet is finally told,
it will be a tale of exalted triumph
that forever changed the destiny of Earth.
We are the IAS.
And Mark was well-acquainted with a lot of these very dramatic films and
how they were made because he was working on them as a producer.
You show the best spot.
-Is it this one?
-Whose land is this, then?
This is public. This is public land.
So you can see this is the razor wire that's always talked about.
See, they don't have it on the main highway road, but as soon as you get
off the highway, then there's
razor wire around the entirety of the property, just like that.
And you can see the high-powered floodlights,
you can see the motion sensors,
those little black things near every fence post.
Those are called fence shakers,
so if somebody climbs over the fence from the inside,
that sets off an alarm in that main security booth and all those flood
lights all around the entire property turn on,
so they can easily locate someone who's trying to escape.
Let's hop out.
You lived here for 15 years?
-Do you feel now, looking back,
that you were kept against your will?
I think that I was a prisoner in my own...
I was keeping myself here based on what they told me.
I knew that there would be consequences of me leaving
that would make it so it would be
very hard for me to live outside of this world.
Those consequences became so minuscule compared to the terror
that I was living through here
that it got to the point where I
would rather be dead than to live here.
They recite events that never took place.
I'm left in a position of my word against their word,
which is precisely the effect I feel they've tried to create.
Their efforts are orchestrated,
pursuant to a well-used litigation
strategy that has been employed against
L Ron Hubbard, various churches of Scientology and me for years.
Namely, the gathering of apostates in search of money,
who are then used as a travelling road show
to present packaged yet false testimony concerning
Scientologists, churches of Scientology and me.
That was very good.
Did you not think that was very good?
Hubbard understood early on that he
could spread his religious ideas using actors.
He wrote screenplays and liked
being photographed on set, directing.
And, as early as 1955, he launched something called Project Celebrity,
a list of high-profile people he hoped to recruit -
James Stewart, Greta Garbo, Danny Kaye -
and the practices of Scientology are like acting class techniques.
You're learning a new role in life.
It's an exciting day today because we are here to cast Tom Cruise.
He's obviously the famous Scientologist in the world.
In fact, probably a lot of people,
all they know about Scientology is that Tom Cruise is a member.
And Tom Cruise is best friends with David Miscavige.
It was widely reported that David Miscavige was best man
at Tom Cruise's wedding to Katie Holmes.
The other thing is that Mark was involved in making the promotional
videos, and one of the most famous and controversial promotional videos
in Scientology was one involving Tom Cruise on Tom Cruise.
I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist
and it's something that you have to earn...
Because a Scientologist does.
And so we're going to use quotes
from that footage to help us cast our actor
and to understand what motivates Tom Cruise.
I think it's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist
because it's something that you have to earn.
It's a privilege to call yourself a Scientologist.
It's something that you have to earn.
Because a Scientologist does.
-This is not a bad place just to do a quick bit of background.
What level is Tom Cruise at in Scientology?
-And is that high?
Yeah, the only one higher is OT8.
When he gets to that next one,
there's nothing you can do that's higher.
-And each one costs money, right?
To get all the way to the top can cost anywhere from
500,000 to 2 million.
So, for me, it really is KSW.
For me, it really is KSW.
I don't mince words with that, you know.
For me, that policy is just...
It really has just gone...
-Do you want to tell him what KSW is?
Sure. KSW is Keeping Scientology Working
and Keeping Scientology Working is basically like obliterating anything
that doesn't have to do with Scientology and keeping it working.
Any time somebody does something in Scientology that's not
100% Scientology, you crush that person,
so that they do not ever do that again.
So, for me, it really is KSW.
It's just like... It's something that...
..I don't mince words with that.
That policy, to me, has really gone...
Boy. There was a time I went through and I said, "You know what?"
Can you pause it?
-We just paused that at random, right?
I mean, if you saw him across the breakfast table
looking at you like that...
..that's not, you know, "pass the mustard."
In that KSW policy, L Ron Hubbard says,
"We want you to have a dedicated glare in your eyes."
You know, I feel like there's a bigger question outside...
Like, I don't understand, why does he think this is so important?
Because Scientology's the only way that the world
is ever going to survive.
He thinks that without Scientology, what would happen?
When the day is over, the only thing that's workable is Scientology.
Workable as what?
As a technology, as an organisational technology,
as a spiritual technology.
It's a universal solvent that will handle all of the world's problems
and the universe's problems.
-They said, "So, like, have you met an SP?"
Cos maybe one day it'll actually be like that.
Maybe one day it'll be, "Wow, like, SPs."
Like, they'll just read about those in history books, you know?
Do you want to tell Caleb what an SP is?
If you bad-mouth Scientology or speak out against Scientology,
you're labelled a Suppressive Person.
And there's actually a policy within Scientology
that says how you handle a Suppressive Person,
or how you deal with a Suppressive Person,
is to ruin him utterly.
How to shatter suppression. Confront, shatter suppression.
You apply it, it's like boom.
"Because they don't come up..."
Because they don't come up to me and say that.
Not to my face, you know, or anywhere in my vicinity.
Where they can be...
They just don't do it.
Because they're afraid.
Of what they might find out about themselves.
Yeah, see, that's not in there.
-We were just improving.
-No, no, no, I know.
But what he said is exactly true.
Why did you say that?
It's the fear of whatever, but usually themselves.
Are you in character now, or is this you?
A little bit of both.
I was going to say, he's getting really scary on me right now.
I mean, if the intent behind it is to help people,
then, I mean, there should be no harm in that.
-That was nice. Thank you for that.
Not a problem.
You guys have yourself a wonderful afternoon.
What is the license plate again?
After four hours of the same car being behind you...
..it starts to look a bit suspicious.
And it's a white pick-up truck, a Tacoma.
He's right behind us now.
His windshield is quite dark, isn't it?
Nothing suspicious about that.
There's no question, is there?
He's a private investigator.
What you've got to remember is - this is a church.
I mean, that's the thing, isn't it?
It's just not like any church that you can really think of.
I can't see him.
I think we've lost him.
So this is a letter that was forwarded to me from...
..one of our producers.
And it's from the lawyers Carter-Ruck,
retained by the Church of Scientology.
So, evidently they've got wind of...
..what we're doing and they say,
"Our client is aware that Mr Theroux has auditioned for actors to play a
"young David Miscavige."
They don't know we've also auditioned actors
to play Tom Cruise. But...
"In Relation to the auditions,
"our client's information is that Mr Theroux filmed these
"with Marty Rathbun in attendance and advising.
"This is most concerning."
And so, how do they know that Marty was at the casting?
Was one of the actors, conceivably, did he put the word out,
tell people in his circle?
And did that get back to the church?
Or was one of the actors a Scientologist,
or was there someone on the inside who was somehow a mole?
Or we were followed.
Or we were followed.
-So you know we're going to see Tom De Vocht?
And he is another embittered and disgruntled defrocked apostate.
-Well, in addition to you.
Why would you call me what the church calls me?
Do I look embittered?
I could care less, Louis.
Embittered is the last adjective that would apply to me.
I'm way beyond embittered. I don't care.
Hey, hey, hey.
-Guys, this is Erin, by the way.
-How do you do? Louis.
Erin, nice to meet you.
Are you Tom's other half, could we say?
-We're business partners.
-Really? What are you guys doing?
A lot of people have described David Miscavige as an aloof figure,
but I've heard that you were quite tight with David Miscavige.
Yeah, I mean, we became pretty...
It depends how you look at it.
Tight with David Miscavige isn't really possible, I don't think,
but we did get along and he did...
He liked you?
I think what really happens is, he may or may not like you,
but he uses you until you're fucking used up,
and then he chops your head off and everybody's gone.
-It's a pattern.
-It is a pattern.
It happens to everybody.
The guy, I mean, it scared you.
You thought, what the hell?
I played backgammon with him and I'd make a point to lose.
-I mean, it was...
I got good at it, by the way.
-He had to.
-If he felt at all that you were more popular
or better in any way or anything,
he'd flip, and he could flip like that.
Then you spent a little time up there, the guy's got somebody -
I'm sure you know this - recording him 24-7.
Even when we were sitting there drinking Scotch,
tape recorder is down and everything's being recorded.
Even if you were just saying...
If we were playing backgammon, that damn thing was rolling.
-Are you shocked by all this?
You are on record as saying that you saw him beat people.
In the real world, you'd go to jail if you did something like that.
But what I don't understand is...
But you seem like a normal, reasonable person,
and Marty's fairly normal and reasonable,
and there are other people there.
How does someone get away with behaving in that way?
This is the only thing I can tell you,
you've got people who wrap bombs around themselves,
fly planes into buildings - it's the same thing.
You believe so much in that technology or so much in whatever,
they can convince you of anything.
When I got interviewed by the FBI, they said...
"Would you help us? If we went in to Gold up there,
"busted open the gates and went in...
"..would you show us where things are?"
I said, "Abso-fucking-lutely, but you're wasting your time."
After I told them the same thing, they went to him to cross-check it
-and we never talked!
-And they said, "What are you talking about?"
And I said, "You're going to walk in, you might find
"terrible situations and every one of them are going to go,
"No, no, no, this is the way we want it."
And at that point you're done. They can't do anything.
So they thought they could do a raid
and liberate some of the church members?
They thought they could do a raid and liberate and find the
crazy shit going on. I mean, it's insane.
It is the most destructive...
"religion" cult I have ever read anything about or anything.
It is a fucking nightmare.
It really is. And I see people today,
I meet with people who still believe in a little bit of it.
I just want to shake them and go, "You've got to fucking stop."
It's a crock of shit.
We've come back to Hemet with Mark
and we'll be getting some shots of the base.
But I've also decided to drop off a reply to the latest letter
from the church's lawyers.
David Miscavige lives and works, most of the time, at the Int Base,
so it's very easy for me to...
..to drop off the letter.
It's just sort of saying,
you know, the letter that you sent us has been forwarded on to me,
and that you're concerned that we may be following a kind of
bigoted line, not giving Scientology the respect that it deserves.
Oh, can I just give you a letter?
Can I just...? Hello?
-Excuse me, you're trespassing.
-Let me just give you...
I've got a letter for Mr Miscavige.
You're trespassing and, if you don't leave,
I'm going to have you arrested right now.
Can I deliver a letter, please?
There's a bloke there, but he seems enturbulated.
It's almost like, just by receiving the letter, he seemed afraid that
he was in trouble or that it represented a threat to him.
We've been told it's a public road.
We own everything. We own that, we own every house on this property.
-We own everything here.
They have 100-foot right of way from there from the middle of that road.
This is our property. You need to leave.
-The road, I'm asking about the road.
-Yes, it's our property.
-We're staying on this road.
-This is not a public road.
This is not a county road.
This is our road.
We own everything on this place,
we own the golf course, we own every house along here.
You now need to leave.
-I'm trying to drop off a letter.
-The police will be coming.
-We'll see if my partner gets any more information.
They're just probably pointing out to...
Yeah. We're not trying to get in there, on there,
we're not trying to climb on the fence, trying to have a stand out.
Where you guys from?
-From London, England.
-How's the weather?
This is beautiful. Is it a little too hot or am I just imagining it?
And this is our...our film permit.
Do you know if it's a public road?
I believe they own the roadway
up to 50% from the centre of Santa Monica.
Look, if I'm six feet tall, say there's three of me from there,
three of me there, then easily it gets to that kerb, doesn't it?
Do you know why this guy is filming us?
It's not bothering you?
-That he's filming us?
-It doesn't bother me that you're filming us.
-You guys have a good one, right?
-No, I appreciate it.
OK. Thank you.
What's your name?
-You need to leave, too.
-Yes, that's fine.
-Both of you.
What's your name?
We're done. Get in the car.
Are you in the Sea Org?
-Did you see that?
-We had a moment.
Did you recognise the woman who came and talked to us?
Catherine Fraser. Yeah.
And she, Catherine Fraser,
her husband is a gentleman by the name of Jeff Hawkins...
-..who is another guy that left.
-No. I've read his book.
And he wrote a book, Counterfeit Dreams.
He's the guy...
Who wrote a book about how he was many times,
or at least several times, beaten up by David Miscavige.
He was one of Miscavige's alleged...
-He was a punching bag.
And then he blew.
We've brought Marty back.
And we're doing drills.
Marty's offered to take us through some of the Scientology TRs,
or training routines.
So this is my chance, and our actors' chance,
to experience the Scientology Tech, its technology, first-hand.
And Marty, when he was in Scientology,
was the Inspector General in charge of tech.
He used to maintain orthodoxy.
He made sure all the Hubbard written drills and processes
were implemented exactly correctly
and so who better than him to take us through drills today?
-Are you filming?
-Are you with him?
What are you filming?
Can you say?
We're just filming a documentary for us.
-Can you tell me about it?
Can you tell me about the scene you're filming?
I'm a freelance cameraman. I'm just working with her.
With her. What's your name?
Not going to say.
Can you tell me a little bit about why you're here?
We're just filming a documentary.
Because you were filming us, so I just wondered if there was a reason.
We're just filming.
That's it. Is that OK or not?
Well, I'd just like to know, since you were filming me,
why you were filming me.
-Would you like to...?
-I'm not answering this.
-Well, can you explain?
-I'm a freelance cameraman.
-I'm just hired by her to...
But what did she tell you about what you were doing?
To just roll camera on...
-..on this location.
-Come on, help me out. Just...
-She's in charge of this.
-I'm happy to tell you about what I'm doing,
but I'd like you to tell me what you're doing.
I guess I can't help you on any of this.
You're going to have to talk to her. She's the one who called me.
I, honestly, I don't know.
You know, we don't have to be silly about this.
Why don't you just tell me what you're doing?
I'm more than happy to tell you about what we're working on.
Come back. Don't run away.
Did you know that we're doing a documentary about Scientology?
I think you're harassing me now.
Listen, you're filming me. How can I be harassing you?
Stop running away.
-Do you see any of that unfold?
What's the big picture here? I mean...
Why are they doing this?
The big picture is...
..if you look into us, we will look into you ten times as much...
and we will make your life...
..too miserable to continue with what you're doing.
That's the point of it, that's the bigger picture.
Been there, done it on both sides.
On both sides.
-Are we gonna started?
-Yeah, I think we're good to go -
whenever you want to.
My name's Marty.
OK, so he said you were willing to participate in the drills...
-..for real, no?
Student and coach sit facing each other with eyes closed.
There is no conversation.
It is a silent drill. There is no twitching, moving, simply be there.
What you can do is, is if you feel like you accomplish something on it,
just raise your hand.
Because we're not doing it under the official auspices of Scientology,
we're doing something that's called squirrelling
and, in Scientology, that is the crime of crimes.
Come on, Marty. Got anything to say?
You can't even defend yourself on this, can you?
-What's your name?
-Why don't you answer his question?
-I'm with Squirrel Busters Productions.
Squirrelling is heresy and squirrelling is the reason why,
for more than a year,
Marty was hounded and harassed by the Squirrel Busters.
They were busting him for attempting to set up
a rival church to Scientology.
Marty, knock it off.
Anything that is not official Scientology, authenticated tech,
is terrible, is deeply dangerous.
And putting the entire fate of the planet, and not just this planet,
all planets in the universe at risk,
because you're not doing it correctly.
How you doing, Mr Squirrel?!
And then debate becomes, well, is that because they want to
maintain a monopoly over the practises because their
whole business model is to do with selling these services?
You are one ugly motherfucker, you know that?
Flunk, ever so slightly.
Start. You are one ugly motherfucker, you know that?
Flunk, you twitched. This is the make or break point here.
Now you're going to teach somebody how to have some forbearance
and tolerance and ability to take some shit.
You know? This is the most highly criticised drill,
but it's the most highly sworn by drill, too.
It's called Bullbait. OK.
You're not a very good journalist, are you?
You're really bad at it.
This is probably the best you're going to do.
Your wife really doesn't love you...
She's fucking some other guy right now.
It's probably someone you know.
It's probably your brother,
if you have a brother, or a relative of yours.
Your boyfriend's having sex in another room.
God, he's really good. I don't even know what to say. What do I do?
-Let me do something.
-Let me take over for a second.
Let me see.
OK, John, I'm going to do a little drilling with you, OK?
Jesus. Do we have to do that?
I hate you!
Face me comfortably, OK?
-Can we not do that one?
-We've got to flatten it now.
-I don't like loud noises.
Now that it's started, we have to flatten it.
We're going to flatten this button, OK?
I think if you've seen in the public eye
people who are prominent Scientologists,
they have a sort of very forceful bearing and intentional type
of personality -
that's essentially what these things drill in.
Purpose - to make student clearly achieve tone 40 commands.
-The highest tone.
-The highest tone.
So they'd be the most effective commands?
The most effective command. It's an effortless thing, ultimately.
First, locate the space in which the object is located.
-You see that space?
-Yes, I do.
Locate the object in that space.
Command the object in the loudest possible voice he can muster.
Now, we're going to get into the commands,
which are - stand up, thank you, sit down in that chair.
OK. Put one hand on each side.
So, command it is loudly as you can.
Have it comply.
Acknowledge it as loudly as you can.
Command it as loudly as you can.
Sit down in that chair!
Now have it comply.
All right, now do this.
Think the thought, "I am a wildflower."
OK, good. Think the thought that you are sitting in a chair.
Imagine the thought, that thought of you sitting in a chair,
imagine that thought being in that ashtray.
Now get the ashtray thinking that it is an ashtray.
You know, I'm going along with this,
but it isn't making a whole lot of sense.
-But is that OK?
-Well, it's imagination.
I'm telling you, put in the ashtray
the intention to remain where it is.
-OK. Do you get that at all?
Well, I'm imagining it having a little voice saying,
"I'm going to remain where I am."
OK, all right.
Get the idea of putting a thought into my mind about
whether to continue this drill or to dump it.
One way or the other, I want you to put that intention right back here,
whether I should continue this drill or I should dump it.
You want me to continue the drill.
-OK, good. I got that.
And we always end up by the portraits of Hubbard.
Let's give a hand to him, and everybody stands up.
If we wanted to do that, would you be comfortable with us doing it?
-You can do it, but I'm going to go.
-If we all visualise the picture...
I mean, I advise you guys not to do it,
but if you want to join this guy's cult, that's OK with me.
Just get a sense of what it feels like.
It might not even feel weird.
I mean, Conor's up for it.
I don't want to do it if it's going to annoy you, Marty.
No, go ahead and do it. I'm just not participating, that's all.
The other thing that goes with it, Louis,
is everything positive that happens to you...
..you get validated by attributing it to what you learned from Hubbard.
Everything negative that happens to you, you're counselled that it's
your lack of application of what you did learn.
And then it really becomes mind control, by definition.
And that's the game. That's why I don't even want to participate
-You don't seriously...
I figured the whole mouse trap out and I just don't want
to engage in it. That's all.
I'm not participating in that shit.
Let's give a hand to LRH!
You see, I think the whole thing was a freaking failure.
You want to know why?
Because they went ahead and did what he suggested after I went through
all that work to try to get them to become self-determined
and able to exercise intention.
And they all went and followed this new cult leader...
..the Louis Theroux cult.
Is he all right?
Do you find my questions inane, in general?
In general, no. I'm just...
But the ones you're asking now, I mean, I find...
I just don't understand why you're asking them like you're asking.
At this point, I've spent so many hours with you...
..and then you make everything sound so pedestrian.
I don't know what... You're wanting me to...
I've told the story, like, I don't know how many times.
You want me to tell you again?
I mean, we went through this last time I was here.
I got into the whole freaking thing.
I remember, these are the same questions coming again.
Like, you're going to get a different answer now?
Or you're going to find an inconsistency?
You know, what's the purpose of this?
Yesterday, it seemed like a couple of times, maybe, I was getting
on your nerves a little bit.
Is that a statement?
I'm sorry you got that impression.
Ask me something that truly puzzles you,
that you think I might have the answer to...
..that you haven't asked me six times already.
What did it feel like punching Marc Headley?
Er... It hurt my... It hurt.
It hurt my fist.
The guy is built like a tank.
We've had another letter.
To be honest with you, we've had a couple more letters
and they are similar in tone,
and what they basically say is, you are embarked on a project
that is run through with religious bigotry.
The church's version of events is that they do massive amounts
of good work, social betterment programmes,
they alleviate illiteracy, drug addiction...
..criminal behaviour, they do disaster relief.
And what we're doing is ignoring all of that
and focusing on a tiny handful of disgruntled ex-members.
And that Marty Rathbun, in particular, is a deeply unstable
and untrustworthy figure with a vendetta against the church.
These are letters from Carter-Ruck,
the lawyers retained by the Church of Scientology,
and they were sent to me.
"These are from Mr Rathbun's weblog, describing the leader of the
"Scientology religion as 'Ayatollah Miscavige'
"and the Church of Scientology as 'Radical Scientology',
"which is obviously abusive and offensive of both Mr Miscavige
"and the Church." Well, first of all...
..I think it's an understatement, if anything.
"Mr Rathbun has an extensive repertoire of misrepresenting
"his position. For instance, he worked as an external...
"in an external affairs position when in the Church
"and never served in an ecclesiastical management role,
"contrary to his claim."
This is absurd.
There's absurd things in these letters that you're taking
-What was your issue with that one?
Because I was the Inspector General.
Which is what? What did you do?
Which is actually the highest ecclesiastical position
contemplated ever by L Ron Hubbard.
I was the baddest ass dude in Scientology.
The highest level...
The hierarchy of the Church of Scientology was absolutely
at the beck and call of me.
When you look back at the stuff you did,
what is the stuff you most regret?
Why are you jumping to that?
You ask me these questions that act as if what happened
in a one-minute period is who I was for 28 years.
As I've spent time with Marty,
it's become clear he is a double-edged figure.
Both the chief whistle-blower, but also,
as the Church's own documents make clear, in his time,
the chief enforcer.
One of the most notorious episodes
was when he was Inspector General.
Marty claims he arranged for a top Scientology defector to be tailed by
two PIs because they thought he might have absconded
with some religious writings of Hubbard's.
And the tailing apparently continued for around 20 years.
So you could argue that Marty went along with the regime
until he fell out of favour.
By Marty's account, in 2004, he'd been away on assignment
and he returned to the Int Base to find that David Miscavige
had created this punishment area for upper management
called the SP Hole.
And within weeks, Marty himself had been sent there
and it was only then that he blew.
You know, if those are Scientologists, they're not SPs,
they're not outsiders. So why are they going into the Hole?
Well, Miscavige says that they are SPs, who are working against him
and trying to get him to fail.
And they were sleeping in there, they would eat their meals in there,
and you can imagine if you have 30 or 40 people living
in an office space, 24 hours a day, for weeks and months,
you can imagine what it was like.
It was just dirty and degraded.
This is something I was awarded when I got Dianetics
on the bestseller list.
-Oh, see, this is interesting.
-A leather-bound copy.
Let me grab some other photos, if I can find them.
That's some photos of my third wife, Catherine.
You know, I went down to the Int Base and I met Catherine Fraser.
-My ex, yeah.
I think she, at heart, is a good person
that's trapped in a not so good system.
But I know that she's a good person at heart.
I've also been spending a bit of time with Marty Rathbun.
What was the impression of Marty at the base?
How was he viewed?
..tough, uncompromising and...
That atmosphere brings out the worst in people.
Either they submit or they become one of the predators.
You know? And Marty, for a while, was one of the predators there.
And in a sense, he was the Mr Fix It for David Miscavige
-and did some of the dirty work.
-Oh, yeah. Yeah.
And I don't think he's...
divulged all, I'll just say that.
-You don't think so?
-I don't think he's divulged everything.
What makes you say that?
Well, cos I've read all of his books and his columns
and stuff like that, and I just get the feeling he's tiptoeing around
some subjects, you know.
Marty knows where all the bodies are buried.
This was the escape route. I was coming the other direction.
The base is about five miles down that way.
-This was your escape route?
-Yeah, I was on my motorcycle.
It was about, oh, low 40s, raining.
-Were you pursued?
-I don't know.
I didn't see anybody. But I just went like a bat out of hell
and I went down this road here.
When you blew, this is the way you came?
-When you fled the Hole?
So the idea is just to re-enact some of the events
-that you lived through, Marty...
-And you want to have the environment to be similar.
Yeah, I want to do it as close to the real place as we can.
Well, it was all inside.
So you could literally recreate it anywhere.
I think we're good. What do you think?
-Have a look. I can't see anything.
-Have a look.
Oh, this is great.
So what did you think of the lines?
-These, the ones that I...
They sucked, they're unnatural.
-They're from your book.
-You've got to be natural.
It just comes out like a flood.
Do we think we're going to put trailers out here
or do you think that we would do just as well doing it in a set
You don't have the logistical problem of bringing all these actors
out here. This is a logistics nightmare out here.
OK? You've got to create that claustrophobia, you know?
It's nondescript, cheap-ass sort of office set-up.
Well, we'll figure that stuff out.
Hey, before we lose the light, Marty,
I was going to take Andrew just by the base, by the Int Base.
He expressed an interest in doing that.
-You don't want to go by the base, do you?
There's that red car that was there for a long time...that Marty was in.
We're going to lose the light. We better get down there.
What is this...?
"Road closed"? What?
Was this closed last time?
No. Can they do that?
-What? That's us.
That's barbed wire?
I think that's some kind of barbed wire or spikes on top of there.
-Oh. That is actually quite helpful.
And there are cameras there as well.
Is it trying to communicate something?
-Why is it flashing?
-You guys are trespassing and you need to leave,
or I'm going to call the cops.
-Hi, how are you doing?
You need to leave or I'm calling the cops.
It's OK, we have a permit.
For the third time, you're trespassing.
You need to leave or I'm calling the cops.
-We have a permit, it's fine.
We've got a permit, sir.
Are we allowed to leave?
-Are we allowed to leave?
-Yeah, while he's calling the cops?
Or is that somehow...
-Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.
-I think that's what they want. They want us to leave.
Well, it doesn't seem like we're doing much else here, right?
Are you OK?
-You're not worried about it?
Well, the way that guy was barking at us.
But he was using tone 40.
-I think it was like tone 20.
-You think 20?
You can't see where I'm calling?
-Did you want to see the permit?
-One is from England.
I know he's a BBC reporter. I have no idea his name.
-OK, the road's closed,
you're trespassing and you need to leave.
Apparently, it's a public road.
-No, it isn't.
-And we have a...
-No, you don't.
-But can I just show you the permit?
-No, it isn't.
-It isn't a public road.
Catherine, Catherine... Whoa, whoa, you're assaulting me.
You see that thing? It says "road closed".
-Come here, come here.
-Let me show you.
No, come on. What's your name, Lewis?
Look, are you so stupid you cannot see the sign
that says "road closed"?
-Is there anything about that that you don't understand?
-Well, look, I've got a permit...
Do you know what a road means? It's closed.
-We don't want...
-The road is closed.
-..to create any issue for you.
And I don't want him filming me, so tell him to stop.
-Well, you're filming us.
-Tell him to stop.
Well, you tell him to stop.
-Tell him to stop.
-You tell him to stop and I'll tell him to stop.
-How about that?
-Tell him to stop.
-Louis, you need to leave.
Catherine, we don't need to leave.
-Yes, you do.
-Catherine, we don't.
Well, you're not trespassing now. You can stay here all night.
Thank you. Catherine... Catherine, what are you angry about?
-You're going to stand there...
-My deep desire is actually
-to speak to someone from the Sea Org.
-So you're actually doing me quite a big favour.
Oh, Louis. Oh, yeah. You're like... Oh, yeah, you're so honest.
Yeah. You take the stars in honesty.
So this is good. Let's just keep the conversation going.
No, we're done. Bye, Louis.
You don't have to go. You're not trespassing.
-Wait until the police come.
-We'd like you to stay.
Can we talk to you?
Are you in the Sea Org as well?
Are you making a documentary as well?
And if so, who is your one for?
Catherine, I think we're going to go, OK?
Just so you know.
-You guys are missing all the action inside the terminal.
I've got Marc Yager,
Jenny De Vocht and Dave Bloomberg, another Int guy...
..sort of getting in my face here. I've got it on video tape.
You guys might be interested in it.
Anyway, you're missing the fireworks.
So a call's just come in from Marty saying that once
he'd got through security, there were three prominent Scientologists
on the other side.
So they've started again, squirrel busting.
Can you move on, please?
Can you guys move on, please?
They're behaving in a way that's so obviously pathological.
You would think that they would realise
that other people would see that and think,
"This is a religion of lunatics."
They are doing it for one audience, which is David Miscavige.
They are trying to prove that they are loyal to him...
..because he holds all the strings,
he has the ultimate power in Scientology.
He could banish them from Scientology with a word.
He holds your eternity in his hand.
So it's not just the threat of death, it's the threat of...
..really dying over and over again in ignorance...
..and darkness, and that's what they think is in store for them.
He has ultimate spiritual power over Scientologists.
He says who goes up the bridge and who doesn't go up the bridge.
You know? And he can bar you from Scientology for ever
if you cross him and he knows that.
He knows the power that he's got, the same power Hubbard had.
You worked with David Miscavige quite a bit.
-He didn't like you much, did he?
He physically beat me up on about five separate occasions.
There was one case where I was in a meeting with him,
I was presenting an infomercial script that I had worked on.
He hated it and he's getting himself worked up and worked up
and worked up, and finally he jumps up on the conference room table -
he's a little guy, but he's like, you know, muscular -
jumps up on the conference room table, launches himself at me,
knocks me back against a partition,
is beating my face and then he knocks me on the floor.
And then he stalks out of the room, and there was like
literally 30 or 40 top executives in that room.
And they're saying, "Get up, get up.
"You don't want to make him wrong."
You know, like if I...
If I laid there all scratched up and torn, that would be making
him wrong and that would be terrible.
This is the re-enactment, which we've been talking about doing.
And Marty's here and we've got our set, as discussed with him.
We've got actors, we've got a script written by Marty,
based on what allegedly happened at the Gold Base around the time of
the Hole, so we're going to improvise based on that.
And we have as well in the background,
although I haven't told Marty this yet, but we have Tom Cruise.
I'm not suggesting that he was at the Int Base at this time,
or that he knew what was going on, but as Scientology's poster boy,
whatever happened in Scientology, for good or ill,
carries his name on it.
Welcome to the Hole.
This is a re-creation of the watchdog committee conference room,
which was at the International Base out in Riverside, California.
There was a guard at the door, meals were brought in,
sleeping bags were put on the floor, people had to sleep there.
Miscavige then reading in all of these evil intentions
that these people must have against him, and it must be...
And this is kind of Scientology thinking,
that there's some Suppressive Person
that's poisoning everything, unbeknownst to everybody else.
And so there was more and more people getting into it.
When I was there, there was like 60 people,
and apparently it went up to 80 or 100 at different times after I left.
Were they kept against their will, would you say?
All of the doors and windows were barred and there was
a security guard at the door,
so I would call that against their will.
But if they'd wanted to badly enough,
it's hard not to feel they could have made a run for it?
Well, yes. Yes.
And this is one of the things that people don't understand
about that environment.
I mean, take my case.
I finally decided to turn my back on the whole subject and leave.
I had to walk away from a 35-year commitment...
..my wife, who I love very much,
all of the friends I had in the world were at that Int Base.
A person has to be so desperate to just turn their back
on everything and say, "I don't care about all that.
"I have to leave this place because it's just too oppressive."
And walk out into a world that is just totally foreign
and where they don't know anybody, they don't know the rules,
they don't know how to get a job,
they don't know how to get a bank account.
You know? It's a foreign world that they have to go out
and somehow cope with alone.
And people say, "Why don't they just walk out?"
Well, that's why. Because, in essence, it's a kind of a suicide.
You have to say, "My life is over and I'm walking out of my life
"and into a totally different life."
You know? It's that level of desperation that you have to get to.
And people that are still in there,
they haven't gotten to that level of desperation.
The people in the Hole, they haven't gotten to that
level of desperation yet, you know?
And this incident we're doing is when...
..he finally decides the last person that he trusts
he doesn't trust any more and I'm getting sentenced to the Hole.
And then three days later, I was gone.
Because I thought leaving was the only thing I could do to sort of...
..wake him up. Because if I leave,
I hold the keys to the kingdom - that should sober him up.
What the fuck is that doing?!
Get the fuck up! Fucking DB!
Lick the fucking floor!
Lick the floor!
It may be that every religion carries within it
the DNA for its own distinct crimes.
Fucking mental midgets! That's right.
The Hole and the allegations of abuse are, in my view,
an extreme but logical extension of the principles of Scientology.
Where do you sleep?!
Answer my fucking question!
-On the ground, sir.
-Where on the ground?
I am so frantic trying to light a fire under your lazy asses,
since you routinely let everything go to hell the second
I don't have a gun to your head.
The Sea Org is imbued with the Spartan warrior ethic
and bull-baiting, squirrel-busting and shattering suppression
are part of their dogma.
While I'm busy trying to put things back in order,
cos you fucking degraded beings don't get shit done!
Look at this fucking org board.
Fucking org board!
You fucking SP!
The way you fucking handle an SP...
is you handle him roughly!
You handle him roughly!
Fucking handle him roughly. OK?!
The church denies the existence of the Hole
and any abuse by David Miscavige.
It provides numerous statements from people who say these
things just never happened.
Sit down, sit down, sit down.
But there are also many ex church members
who say that they did happen.
And I've come to believe a version of this did take place.
And watching it unfold, I kept thinking about Marty
and his years of service and his complicity.
Anyone listens to this fucking cocksucker,
you're automatically and immediately SP declared.
Have a pleasant evening.
Good. That was a command performance.
We're done. That was just a command performance.
-Is everyone all right?
-He was on a roll.
I just sat back and watched cos it was as if he was channelling
that guy. That is what it was.
And you can see, it becomes a overwhelm and you're like, "Whoa."
What's an SP like you doing in a place like this?
You're not going to talk to us, Marty?
Oh, look, you've got another guy with a camera.
Hey, guys, what are you doing?
We actually came to talk to Marty.
-So, anyway, Marty...
-Do you want to identify yourself?
How much is the BBC paying you?
I just wanted to find out,
between the foster care and what the BBC is paying you,
is that enough to cover you?
Can you identify yourself, please?
Did Moby have to go? Actually, I'm having a comm cycle here with Marty.
What's the foster care?
The foster care, do you get paid enough for the foster care?
You, I think, I know.
Where is your friend from last time?
These guys hired me this time.
Can you tell me who they are?
They hired me to work on their documentary.
Did you finish the other project?
-Here's the crew.
I have no interest in being... Thanks, Marty.
Guys, stick around, please.
It's the same guy.
Which guy, the cameraman?
Can we just have your names?
Between your foster care...
This is really sick, man.
This is really sick.
They're saying, "Are you getting paid enough for your foster care?
"Between this and your foster care, is that paying you enough?
"How much are they paying you?
"Between that and your foster care, are you able to survive?"
I don't know anything about foster care.
Monique and I are providing for him.
It was a straight adoption.
None of these things just happen.
David Miscavige had to direct this.
He scripted it and directed it.
-That is a five! That is five.
-Now I've got to see what I've got to do with it.
You lucky mother fucker.
He brought my wife's name into it and he's brought my son into this.
I didn't want to do it, but I'm going to have to pull the plug
on this organisation.
You don't bring my child into this...
..unless you want me to do something extremely severe in response.
Do the actors know what was going on?
We probably shouldn't tell them.
They'll just get upset.
You know, welcome to my life, Louis.
And I say, you've just illustrated it.
Like, I'm working with these people, but I've got to withhold from them
that these guys are in my face here because they might be upset.
It's the same thing I have to go through
with all of my contacts in life.
I have to live this life
where I can't really share what happens to me on a day to day basis
because, if I do, it freaks people out.
You understand the burden?
We can't make friends.
It's very difficult...
..to say, "Hey...
"..come on over for a barbecue,
"but realise you might be being surveilled
"and it might be going into the archive of the most pernicious,
"dangerous cult the Western world has known in the past 50 years."
You understand what I'm saying?
But I will tell you this,
he will rue the day that he brought my son into this.
He will rue the day.
You know, we talked early on about, you were...
..you ran private investigators...
I mean, some of these techniques were things you did to other people.
You ran PIs, you infiltrated...
You are so wrong. I never, ever even crossed my mind to think about...
...bringing a person's child into something.
I never, ever, ever crossed my mind to use a
terroristic technique like that, ever.
Nothing like this.
I mean, you had people pretending to be people's friends,
-I mean, I'm not trying to give you... Isn't that a fact?
-Isn't that a fact?
-You're a fucking asshole,
that's a fact. Fuck you.
You know, I'm sitting here having my child brought into this thing
and you want to fucking sit here and make me defend myself?
Fuck yourself. I have to be subjected to this shit
-and I've got to take this shit from him?
-All right, forget it, Marty.
I consider myself fucked. I don't know what to say now.
Like, do you want to change...?
You should apologise, for starters,
and say we're cancelling that and pick up where we left...
-All right, fine, cancel that.
-..before that whole thing started.
But even then, I want a minute to cool down
because this is really offensive.
I'm really fucking offended by it. I'm telling you, I have no life,
I can't even make friendships,
I am unemployable, and you start giving me this shit?
That definitely brings us to the close of tonight's event
and the start of a whole new era.
Yet, before we part, I want you to remember the two operative words
with which we opened this evening - necessity level.
The moment you realised the scope of Scientology,
the very instant you accepted its power, one way or another,
you were committed by necessity to help in every way you can.
We mean it. The only slim chance this planet has...
Rests on a few slim shoulders, overworked, underpaid and fought -
Later on, if we make it, what will be your answer to this question?
Did you help?
And I say, let's all make it happen.
Thank you very much. To LRH.
That inspirational speech and the film of the 2004 gala
is the dream of how the world would be with Scientology.
Well-ordered and grandiose, and reaching for some higher purpose.
All the bull-baiting and the shattering suppression,
they're justified because of this.
And in spite of everything I now know,
a little part of me still feels the pull of their vision.
It may be tempting to look at the faces and see foolishness,
but you could also choose to see good people, who are members
of a church that's been hijacked by its own Pope.
Thank you very much. See you next year. Goodnight.
Well, they think they're saving the world, right?
They see you as the ultimate Suppressive.
See, that's... That's where you're wrong.
That's where you're wrong.
Ultimately, it's as if he literally, in his warped mind,
is begging me to end all of this for him.
He knows I'm the truth, man,
and that is the scariest thing in the world to him.
I am done with it.
Your number's up, Marty. They're going to arrest you.
They keep pulling me back in.
-We're just doing some random inspections here today.
-Need to take a look in the back,
make sure you don't have any skid missiles hidden back there.
There's some guys in there. It is on, yeah. We're filming.
-We're making a movie. LOUIS LAUGHS
Louis Theroux is in America to interview members of the Church of Scientology - but they do not want to speak with him. So he meets disaffected former members of the controversial organisation and uncomfortably recreates some extreme experiences. All the while, Louis is being oddly shadowed by people who might be the very folk he wouldn't mind having a word with...