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Ding Yu is a journalist and TV presenter. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
TRANSLATION: I like being a reporter. I really love my job. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:32 | |
After so many years, I feel it's more than a job to me. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
But the programme she presents is extraordinary. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
She conducts interviews with prisoners | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
who've been sentenced to death. | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
In the weeks, days or even minutes before an execution | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
is carried out, the condemned talk to Ding Yu, face to face. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
Ding Yu and her team | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
are making last-minute preparations for today's interview. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:58 | |
In China, you can be sentenced to death for 55 crimes | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
ranging from theft, smuggling | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
and crimes against the state, to violent crimes like murder. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:17 | |
Ding Yu focuses exclusively on clear-cut cases of murder, | 0:02:19 | 0:02:23 | |
often unusually brutal killings. | 0:02:23 | 0:02:25 | |
Interviews Before Execution is on every week of the year. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
It's been running for more than four years. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
Ding Yu has presented every one. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
The show is broadcast on the Henan Legal Channel - | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
one of 3,000 TV channels across China. | 0:02:56 | 0:03:00 | |
All are owned by the state and are subject to its censors. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
To Western eyes, the show may seem exploitative, | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
but that's not how Ding Yu sees it. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
TRANSLATION: Some viewers may consider it cruel to ask a criminal | 0:03:33 | 0:03:37 | |
to do an interview when they are about to be executed. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
On the contrary, they want to be heard. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
Ding Yu is about to interview a man who stabbed his ex-wife to death, | 0:03:54 | 0:03:59 | |
before setting fire to the house. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
When I talk with the interviewee, I'm more concerned | 0:04:03 | 0:04:07 | |
with his character, upbringing, environment, | 0:04:07 | 0:04:13 | |
social background and the link between him and the victim. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:17 | |
That is what we want to dig out. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
Gao Pingfu was badly burnt in the blaze | 0:04:23 | 0:04:27 | |
and has been sentenced to death. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:28 | |
TRANSLATION: We have a saying, "Feed him a carrot so he'll follow you." | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
Everyone has their weak points, something they care about. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
So, we don't start by talking about the case with him, | 0:04:58 | 0:05:02 | |
but things he might be interested in. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
We have to really understand this person. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
Gao Pingfu turned up at his ex-wife's home with a knife | 0:05:35 | 0:05:40 | |
and stabbed her to death in front of her parents. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
TRANSLATION: 'When I'm face to face with them, | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
'I feel sorry and regretful for them.' | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
But I don't sympathize with them, | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
for they should pay a heavy price for their wrongdoing. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
They deserve it. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
Their life experience is nothing unusual. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
And they have experienced something that | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
most ordinary people are going through or will go through. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
The only difference is the dramatic change | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
they undergo at the moment when they commit the crime. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
The intention of our programme is to prevent | 0:07:50 | 0:07:53 | |
people from repeating their mistakes. | 0:07:53 | 0:07:55 | |
A few weeks later, Ding Yu | 0:08:08 | 0:08:10 | |
and her team track down Gao Pingfu's daughter living with her new family. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
TRANSLATION: We first asked for the consent of the girl's stepfather | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
and then we said to the girl, "Your dad has something to say to you | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
"and we have filmed it. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
"Would you like to see it?" She said "Yes". | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
We just showed the back of her head. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:39 | |
TRANSLATION: I can help them convey their last words. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
Or I can help carry out something he wants to do to atone for his crime. | 0:08:51 | 0:08:55 | |
Through my interview, he can show his atonement for the crime | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
and get rid of a heavy burden or a stone in his heart. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
Days later, the programme goes on air. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
The Chinese state doesn't release official statistics, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
but it is thought to execute thousands of people every year. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:46 | |
They are killed by lethal injection or by firing squad. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
There is no presumption of innocence in Chinese law and confessions | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
are sometimes taken before the suspect has had access to a lawyer. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:57 | |
Henan TV's stated purpose is to inform and educate | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
according to government policy. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
It's the show's weekly meeting. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
It was Ding Yu who came up with the idea | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
for Interviews Before Execution. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
She pitched it to the boss of the channel. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
-TRANSLATION: -I thought it was a great idea right away. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
Not because I thought of it as being commercially successful | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
but for our responsibility to society. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:44 | |
But they still had to persuade government officials | 0:10:47 | 0:10:49 | |
and the courts that the show was in the national interest. | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
When we were planning this programme, we had to have the consent | 0:10:53 | 0:10:57 | |
and approval of the high court of Henan province. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
Without them we wouldn't have been be able to do it. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
In China, judges are appointed by the state's | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
National People's Congress. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:13 | |
Judge Liu Wenling was one of the first to offer cases | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
to the programme. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:17 | |
-TRANSLATION: -When Ding Yu came to me | 0:11:18 | 0:11:21 | |
and asked whether I could offer her a good case for | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
Interviews Before Execution, I remembered this one case. | 0:11:24 | 0:11:27 | |
The reason why I chose it is because of its educational value. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
That is, when young people in love are dealing with | 0:11:31 | 0:11:35 | |
romantic disputes, they should not lose control like the defendant. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:40 | |
As a warning to others, the Chinese authorities have traditionally | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
paraded prisoners through the streets before execution. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Now they use a TV show. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
The message they want to send is that you must abide by the law | 0:11:55 | 0:11:59 | |
and you must never lose control. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
-LU PEIJUN IN TRANSLATION: -We want the audience to be warned. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
For us, if people are warned then some tragedies might be averted. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:13 | |
That's good for society. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:16 | |
Interviews Before Execution rates in the top 10 shows in the province | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
and is watched by millions every week. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:32 | |
It has made Ding Yu a star. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
The audience like her, and so do the interviewees. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
That means criminals hated by the public. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
And she is a lady. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:55 | |
I assumed her female image would be helpful to the production. | 0:12:55 | 0:13:01 | |
We say she is the beauty with the beasts. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:04 | |
In a break from filming, Ding Yu goes shopping | 0:13:15 | 0:13:19 | |
with her husband and her son. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:21 | |
But even here, work catches up with her. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:28 | |
Over 100 million people live in Henan province. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:51 | |
Vast cities are surrounded by enormous rural areas. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
Justice in China can be swift. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
Once the supreme court has upheld a death sentence, the prisoner | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
can be executed after seven days. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
Executions take place near to where the prisoners are being held, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:12 | |
in open spaces closed off from the public | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
or in mobile execution trucks. | 0:14:15 | 0:14:17 | |
As the province is so large, Ding Yu often travels hundreds of miles | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
for an interview at short notice. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
The young man she'll interview today | 0:14:49 | 0:14:51 | |
is convicted of murdering his girlfriend's grandparents. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:55 | |
His girlfriend knew about the plan to rob them | 0:14:55 | 0:14:58 | |
and is facing 12 years in jail, and the boy who killed them | 0:14:58 | 0:15:01 | |
has been sentenced to death. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:03 | |
Both defendants are university students. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
They are very young, in their 20s. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
Like many of the cases Ding Yu covers, this one is about money. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:33 | |
The robbery went wrong | 0:15:36 | 0:15:37 | |
and Zhang Peng ended up murdering the elderly couple. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
Ding Yu passed on Zhang Peng's message to his girlfriend, | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
who's also in jail for being an accomplice to the robbery. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
TRANSLATION: To me it seems that the girl still loves this boy, | 0:16:48 | 0:16:52 | |
even though he killed her grandparents. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
Her eyes were wet with tears. | 0:16:57 | 0:17:00 | |
I've interviewed criminals even younger than him. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
Some are just 18 years old. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
That's the minimum age you can be sentenced to death. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
They are gone now, executed. They have left their families for ever. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:55 | |
They are so young. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:00 | |
They never had the chance to see this world, or to enjoy life, | 0:18:00 | 0:18:07 | |
career, work, and love of family. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:12 | |
They've made the wrong choice, and the price is their lives. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:16 | |
The show airs only a week after the interview, | 0:18:19 | 0:18:22 | |
so Ding Yu and the editor are under intense pressure | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
to get it ready for transmission. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:26 | |
TRANSLATION: I can say, this programme | 0:19:19 | 0:19:21 | |
has a really serious effect on me. | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
When I started the show, I was often so scared, scared about others, | 0:19:26 | 0:19:34 | |
about people around me, afraid they might kill me. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
Home is the only place she can really switch off and relax. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
'All the anxiety and pressures from my work are lifted as soon | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
'as I come home to my family. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
'I know I'll keep on doing many interviews, but at the same time, | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
'lots of people keep telling me, don't do this programme for long. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:41 | |
'Even the High Court chief himself personally suggested that | 0:20:41 | 0:20:45 | |
'I should not do this programme for long.' | 0:20:45 | 0:20:48 | |
He said, as a girl, he called me a girl, | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
though I was not a girl any more, he said doing this would burden | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
you too much, and won't do your life any good. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
Although she's presented the show for four years, | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
Ding Yu admits to crying on only two occasions during an interview. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
Once was with a man sentenced to death for the murder of a child. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
It was a kidnap for ransom that went horribly wrong. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
The killer described in detail what they did to the girl. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
It was too much for Ding Yu to bear. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
Filming a documentary about her show is making Ding Yu | 0:23:00 | 0:23:04 | |
relive many of the cases she's filmed throughout the years. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
Interviewing so often, I thought I'd get used to the evil. | 0:23:12 | 0:23:15 | |
But the questions you've asked me, | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
about the cases that have affected me most, they're painful for me. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
Because telling those stories, recalling them, | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
I've felt anxious since yesterday. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:31 | |
It's making me feel awful and giving me headaches. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:35 | |
As Ding Yu's show has gained in popularity, | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
viewers have contacted her to ask her to cover their stories. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:50 | |
For one of her most memorable interviews, | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
it was the victim's sister who got in touch. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
TRANSLATION: Unable to see Wu Yanyan herself, | 0:24:01 | 0:24:04 | |
the sister-in-law really wanted to know | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
how Wu could be so cruel and how she could have killed her husband. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:13 | |
She wanted to draw wider attention to this case | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
because of her hatred of the killer. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:20 | |
It is a kind of comfort for the sister. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
Ding Yu was to follow the story over many months, | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
to an extraordinary conclusion. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
From the start, it was more complicated | 0:24:35 | 0:24:39 | |
than most of Ding Yu's cases. The death sentence was in dispute. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:45 | |
Despite Wu Yanyan's claims, the abuse was never proven. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:11 | |
When Wu Yanyan's case went to trial, | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
she was sentenced to immediate execution. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:27 | |
But since 2007, every execution verdict in China has had to | 0:25:27 | 0:25:32 | |
go to the Supreme Court to be confirmed. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
When they looked at Wu Yanyan's case and the accusations of abuse, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:39 | |
they asked for it to be re-examined. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
When the crime happened, | 0:26:10 | 0:26:11 | |
her daughter was only a baby of 14 months. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
Now she is soon to be seven. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
This is torture for a mother like Wu. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
In the last five years, the government's official policy | 0:26:26 | 0:26:30 | |
has been to execute less, and more cautiously. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
Earlier this year the Chinese state reduced the number of crimes | 0:26:34 | 0:26:39 | |
that receive the death penalty from 68 to 55. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:43 | |
Now, economic crimes like VAT and credit fraud no longer carry | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
the death sentence, but with no published statistics | 0:26:47 | 0:26:50 | |
it's impossible to measure the impact of the changes. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:54 | |
There is also now a more lenient line on domestic murder. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
Judges are expected to consult with the victim's family | 0:26:59 | 0:27:03 | |
and try to agree a lesser sentence with them. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:05 | |
In Wu Yanyan's case, it's judge Liu Wenling's job | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
to mediate between the two sides. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
-TRANSLATION: -Mediations for most criminal cases are very difficult. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
Because victims' families are experiencing huge sorrow, | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
and they all have this traditional idea - | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
you killed my family member, you need to be sentenced to death. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:32 | |
Although this crime is still a homicide, | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
since it has taken a life and has left severe consequences, | 0:27:40 | 0:27:43 | |
it does less harm to society than other cases | 0:27:43 | 0:27:45 | |
of kidnap and murder or robbery and murder. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:49 | |
Wu Yanyan's case is one that Ding Yu | 0:27:54 | 0:27:56 | |
and her team will continue to follow. | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
If the two families can come to an agreement then | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
her death sentence could be lifted. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
Ding Yu's recorded over 200 programmes, | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
but it was her interview with a gay man | 0:28:10 | 0:28:12 | |
that proved the most controversial. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:16 | |
Until 1999, homosexuality was an imprisonable offence in China | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
and it is still a huge taboo rarely discussed in the media. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
Bao Rongting was convicted of murdering his mother | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
and abusing her dead body. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
When the interview with Bao Rongting aired, | 0:29:08 | 0:29:10 | |
it achieved the highest viewing figures of the series. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:14 | |
The channel ran another three half-hour episodes on his story. | 0:29:14 | 0:29:19 | |
It was the first time Ding Yu had met an openly gay man. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:56 | |
TRANSLATION: 'This episode deeply affected many viewers. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
'And it was a great challenge for me to face him. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:04 | |
'I really couldn't accept some of his practices, words and deeds.' | 0:30:04 | 0:30:08 | |
Though he was a man, he asked me, in a very feminine tone, | 0:30:08 | 0:30:14 | |
"Do you feel awkward speaking to me?" | 0:30:14 | 0:30:16 | |
Actually, I did feel awkward. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:17 | |
'But I couldn't say I felt awkward.' | 0:30:23 | 0:30:24 | |
I could only say, "Erm. No. No. Not awkward." | 0:30:24 | 0:30:30 | |
Because a gay man always hopes others will approve and understand. | 0:30:30 | 0:30:36 | |
If I showed any sign of disapproval, he'd raise a wall. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
He'd refuse my interview and never disclose his inner feelings. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:44 | |
The law in China stipulates prisoners can be executed | 0:30:55 | 0:31:00 | |
just seven days after their final sentence, but some remain in prison | 0:31:00 | 0:31:04 | |
awaiting execution for much longer. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
A month after Ding Yu interviewed Bao Rongting, | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
she has returned to the prison on the day of his execution. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:16 | |
While there, they filmed two other men being led out | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
to say goodbye to their families in the prison courtyard. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:24 | |
It wasn't until 2006 prisoners in Henan were allowed | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
to see their families before their execution. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:31 | |
The next prisoner is brought out to say goodbye to his family. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:26 | |
Ding Yu and her team are the only people who have turned up | 0:33:44 | 0:33:47 | |
to see Bao Ronting before his execution. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
He asked me, "Where will I go? Will I go to heaven?" | 0:33:52 | 0:33:56 | |
He knew his life would soon end. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:58 | |
I said, "Sorry, I went to your home yesterday, | 0:34:10 | 0:34:14 | |
"but your brother didn't want to see you off." | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
He said, "It doesn't matter. It's my fault anyway." | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
People talk about angels and devils. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:49 | |
I never thought of myself as an angel | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
because I meet these people for work. | 0:34:51 | 0:34:55 | |
I see myself more as a witness. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
I witness how they've arrived at the point of death. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:05 | |
Witness their mind-set before death. | 0:35:05 | 0:35:08 | |
And witness the transition from life to death. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:11 | |
In China, the condemned must provide signatures and fingerprints, | 0:35:22 | 0:35:26 | |
to confirm their identity and state that they don't want to take up | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
their right to further appeal. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
By signing the paperwork, | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
he clears the last hurdle for his own execution. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
As he says goodbye he has one last request. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:21 | |
TRANSLATION: I had so many thoughts racing through my head. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
Should I shake hands with him? | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
What would he gain if I did? | 0:36:34 | 0:36:37 | |
What comfort would this bring? Would it help him go peacefully? | 0:36:37 | 0:36:42 | |
At last, I moved my middle finger across his hand. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:47 | |
There was a lot of dirt under his nails. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
It was like that. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
For a long time, there was a feeling in this finger. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:06 | |
I can't describe that feeling. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
I don't know whether I should have shaken hands with him or not. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:14 | |
That was just my instinctive reaction. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:18 | |
I remember his look. He turned to look around. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
I think he was looking for his relatives. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
But his relatives didn't show up, not while he was still alive. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:34 | |
After he was executed, his family members went to collect his body. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:43 | |
Bao Rongting was then loaded into an open-top truck | 0:37:56 | 0:37:59 | |
wearing a placard bearing his name and his crime, | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
and he was paraded around the streets on the way to his execution. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:07 | |
This practice is no longer legal in China, | 0:38:10 | 0:38:12 | |
but there are many differences in the way | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
the law is implemented across the country. | 0:38:14 | 0:38:17 | |
Ding Yu's programme never shows the actual execution. | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
SIRENS BLARE | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
The constant proximity to death haunts her. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
TRANSLATION: About this time last year, I was on a train to Fujian. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:59 | |
It was about 1am. I wasn't feeling well and couldn't sleep. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
Everyone else was asleep. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:05 | |
The curtains were closed. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:10 | |
The moment I opened them, it seemed, outside in the blurry night, | 0:39:13 | 0:39:18 | |
in the wilderness, stood a long row of people. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:25 | |
All those I've interviewed who'd been executed. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:32 | |
Their faces were so real. | 0:39:35 | 0:39:37 | |
And now all of them, standing there looking at me. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:41 | |
I was horrified. I couldn't have imagined anything like that. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:49 | |
I don't know why. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
Actually, I know so many stories, | 0:40:02 | 0:40:05 | |
met so many people, heard so many cases, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:08 | |
learned about so many hard realities. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
How can I put it? | 0:40:13 | 0:40:14 | |
It's really not good for me at all. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
I have too much rubbish in my heart. | 0:40:20 | 0:40:24 | |
Ding Yu is at Zhengzhou Detention Centre. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:38 | |
They're about to film an interview that has taken weeks to set up. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:42 | |
-TRANSLATION: -We have to do some research before shooting, | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
interview the victim's family, and ask for background information. | 0:40:49 | 0:40:54 | |
And then we'll contact the families of the defendants, | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
sometimes we would contact their neighbours, | 0:41:00 | 0:41:04 | |
or witnesses at the crime scene. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
TRANSLATION: There are tricks to get cases from the criminal court, | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
and permission from the propaganda department, | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
letting them understand the case is educational, and typical. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:24 | |
However, after initially agreeing, the man refuses to do the interview. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:38 | |
Making this programme is difficult. | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
We can't interview subjects without getting their consent. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
People rarely refuse our interview. Until now. | 0:41:56 | 0:42:02 | |
According to Henan TV, only five prisoners have ever refused, | 0:42:04 | 0:42:09 | |
out of more than 200 Ding Yu has interviewed. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
In Chinese law they now recognize a concept called "social harmony". | 0:42:15 | 0:42:19 | |
In the case of a domestic murder, | 0:42:19 | 0:42:21 | |
if the victim's family can forgive the murderer, | 0:42:21 | 0:42:24 | |
and an agreement can be reached by the two sides, | 0:42:24 | 0:42:27 | |
then the death penalty can be lifted. | 0:42:27 | 0:42:30 | |
The judges have persuaded the families of Wu Yanyan | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
and her murdered husband to meet. | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
'The victim's family strongly demanded the death penalty,' | 0:42:40 | 0:42:44 | |
but it is not encouraged by the current criminal justice policy. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:49 | |
So the judge needed to do a lot of mediation. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
Only by doing so could Wu Yanyan's life be saved. | 0:42:56 | 0:43:01 | |
LIU WENLING: 'According to the regulations of criminal law, | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
'we need to provide an opportunity for mediation to both sides.' | 0:43:10 | 0:43:14 | |
The victim's family strongly hoped that Wu | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
would be sentenced to death, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:19 | |
but I still talked with them from the perspective of this girl. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:23 | |
Wu Yanyan's husband's family are determined she should be executed. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:30 | |
But this is her parents' chance to convince them to show forgiveness. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:35 | |
In reality, it often just comes down to money, | 0:43:37 | 0:43:40 | |
and how much one family will pay to another | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
to compensate for their loss. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:44 | |
Later, Ding Yu plays Wu Yanyan the video of her family's pleas. | 0:43:47 | 0:43:50 | |
SHE SCREAMS AND SOBS | 0:43:56 | 0:43:59 | |
Wu Yanyan is back in court awaiting the judges' final verdict. | 0:44:28 | 0:44:33 | |
In Chinese courts there is no jury, | 0:44:40 | 0:44:42 | |
and the judges' decisions are made by majority. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
The trial is open to all parties to express their views - | 0:44:46 | 0:44:48 | |
even members of the local community can try and influence the judges. | 0:44:48 | 0:44:53 | |
The distraught parents of Wu Yanyan's husband | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
approach the judges and demand | 0:45:06 | 0:45:09 | |
the immediate execution sentence be upheld. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
Ding Yu and her team will return to film after the final verdict. | 0:45:30 | 0:45:35 | |
If her death sentence is lifted, | 0:45:35 | 0:45:37 | |
Wu Yanyan will be able to see her daughter again. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
-TRANSLATION: -I have practiced criminal trials for 29 years, | 0:45:43 | 0:45:46 | |
and I know they are the most rigorous trials | 0:45:46 | 0:45:51 | |
because the power to take lives is granted to you by the Party, | 0:45:51 | 0:45:54 | |
the country and the people. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
This power is very great. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:00 | |
When I first handled death sentence cases, I felt very heavy | 0:46:01 | 0:46:05 | |
if I gave a death sentence. | 0:46:05 | 0:46:07 | |
They also had parents, wives and children. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:12 | |
CHILDREN SING | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
It can be overwhelming for their families. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
Especially for their children. | 0:46:23 | 0:46:25 | |
Some are quite young. | 0:46:25 | 0:46:27 | |
They don't know what crime their parent committed. | 0:46:27 | 0:46:30 | |
All they know is they'll be executed by firing squad. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:34 | |
Ding Yu is at a home for children orphaned | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
after their parents were sent to jail or executed. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
There are only six across China, all funded by private donations. | 0:46:49 | 0:46:53 | |
Children as young as four months can live here, some stay for years. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:14 | |
Children living in Xin Xiang Sun Village are taken to visit | 0:47:22 | 0:47:26 | |
their mothers in prison, some of whom are facing the death penalty. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:31 | |
The Sun Village aims to take them there at least once or twice a year. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:35 | |
As the date of the execution approaches, the children are | 0:47:38 | 0:47:42 | |
no longer brought to see their mothers, to reduce the trauma | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
of final separation. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
Wu Yanyan is held here at Xin Xiang women's prison | 0:47:57 | 0:48:01 | |
along with 5,000 inmates. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
The death penalty is still widely used across China. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:16 | |
But change does appear to be happening. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
Fewer crimes now receive a sentence of immediate execution. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:23 | |
Wu Yanyan's parents agree to pay compensation | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
of 100,000 Chinese yuan, or about £10,000, to her husband's family. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:31 | |
This is a huge amount of money in China | 0:48:32 | 0:48:35 | |
and almost double the average annual wage. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:38 | |
Wu Yanyan has had her death penalty suspended for two years, | 0:48:41 | 0:48:45 | |
but if she deliberately commits any further crime in prison | 0:48:45 | 0:48:48 | |
she will be executed. | 0:48:48 | 0:48:51 | |
At the end of these two years, her final sentence will be reviewed | 0:48:51 | 0:48:54 | |
and she could even eventually be freed. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:57 | |
I truly felt released. | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
The two sides are able to finally accept the judgment, | 0:49:04 | 0:49:08 | |
and reach an agreement because of my efforts. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:11 | |
'I felt released.' | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
Initially, they insisted that Wu has to be sentenced | 0:49:22 | 0:49:25 | |
to immediate execution, but now they can forgive her. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:29 | |
Ding Yu has returned to see Wu Yanyan. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
She is making a follow-up to the original programme | 0:49:40 | 0:49:44 | |
a year after it was broadcast. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
Ding Yu had filmed Wu Yanyan's sister-in-law | 0:50:41 | 0:50:44 | |
at the time of the trial. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:46 | |
She was adamant Wu Yanyan should be executed. | 0:50:46 | 0:50:49 | |
She couldn't forgive Wu Yanyan, | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
but nevertheless, took her daughter in and brought her up as her own. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:56 | |
Although Wang Li | 0:51:17 | 0:51:19 | |
and her parents forgave Wu Yanyan, the rest of the family had not. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:23 | |
Today, Wang Li has brought Wu Yanyan's daughter to the prison, | 0:51:48 | 0:51:52 | |
but the little girl has not been told Wu Yanyan is her mother. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
For years, Wu Yanyan believed she'd be executed | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
and thought she'd never see her daughter again. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:30 | |
Ding Yu sits the family down to talk. | 0:53:44 | 0:53:46 | |
If her good behaviour continues, one day Wu Yanyan | 0:55:19 | 0:55:23 | |
could even be freed and return home to her daughter. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:27 | |
After the interview, I knew how much the opportunity meant to her. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
She is beginning to understand what she has done | 0:55:35 | 0:55:38 | |
and the mistakes she has made. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:40 | |
This will enable her to obey the law and be tolerant to others. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:47 | |
It is a new start for her. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
The makers of Interviews Before Execution | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
believe the show represents the changes taking place in China. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:05 | |
-TRANSLATION: -For me, our programme | 0:56:09 | 0:56:11 | |
can show the world what happens here, | 0:56:11 | 0:56:13 | |
so they can see the real China, and see China's improvements. | 0:56:13 | 0:56:17 | |
Although China is thought to execute more people than any other country, | 0:56:27 | 0:56:32 | |
the death penalty gives one senior member of the judiciary | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
pause for thought. | 0:56:35 | 0:56:37 | |
I've already said that a life could end in the twinkling of an eye | 0:56:40 | 0:56:44 | |
after a trial. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:46 | |
I'd say this is also very cruel. | 0:56:46 | 0:56:49 | |
It's also a means of getting rid of evil deeds through an evil deed. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:54 | |
This also touches on the topic we talked about - | 0:56:54 | 0:56:58 | |
should we abolish the death penalty? | 0:56:58 | 0:57:01 | |
Since the death sentence for criminals is itself a violent act | 0:57:01 | 0:57:06 | |
then we should abolish it. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:08 | |
However, I don't think our country is ready yet | 0:57:09 | 0:57:13 | |
for abolishing the death penalty. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:16 | |
But in the future, it would be good to abolish it. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:20 | |
Ding Yu doesn't talk of abolition, | 0:57:29 | 0:57:32 | |
but whatever the burdens of her job, | 0:57:32 | 0:57:35 | |
she sees her mission as keeping people on the right side of the law. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:39 | |
'The programme urges us to make the right choices | 0:57:42 | 0:57:45 | |
'when we face every challenge in life, and let us live more rationally' | 0:57:45 | 0:57:50 | |
and happily, cherish life more and live more thankfully. | 0:57:50 | 0:57:54 | |
This is my biggest wish making this programme. | 0:57:54 | 0:57:57 | |
I hope that one day | 0:57:57 | 0:57:58 | |
there will be no prisoners on death row to interview. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:01 | |
Then I will be satisfied. | 0:58:01 | 0:58:04 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:50 | 0:58:54 |