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CROWD CHEERS AND APPLAUDS | 0:00:03 | 0:00:06 | |
Just coming from a little place like Ardoyne | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
and then you come to something like this that you've never seen before, | 0:00:17 | 0:00:21 | |
well, it's just a dream. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:22 | |
And to actually get an apprenticeship | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
at a club like Leeds United, it was brilliant. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
Miss it. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:30 | |
CAR HORNS | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
Ardoyne was home and to this day is still home, you know, | 0:00:39 | 0:00:43 | |
I'll still always refer to it as home. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
But I feel very comfortable here. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:49 | |
It was an escape from that hostility that | 0:00:49 | 0:00:52 | |
we experienced as kids in Ardoyne. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:56 | |
In a sense, it has contributed a great deal to the way I am today. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:02 | |
Some people may have left Ardoyne and have never looked back, | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
but, for me, it's still something that is core to who I am. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:15 | |
Holy Cross, Ardoyne, | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
is a Catholic parish in north Belfast, | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
which is bordered by Protestant areas. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
Both sides of the community here have seen more suffering than most | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
throughout the Troubles. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
'Growing up in that context gave me the drive | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
'to try and make a difference. That's why I have chosen to work here, | 0:01:32 | 0:01:35 | |
'particularly with young people in the community.' | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
Whenever people hear about Ardoyne, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
they have a very one-dimensional stereotype, you know, | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
that Ardoyne is a Republican stronghold. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:48 | |
I think there is a deeper and a much richer story | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
to be told about this community, | 0:01:51 | 0:01:52 | |
and that's reflected very much in the lives of the altar boys | 0:01:52 | 0:01:55 | |
that I grew up with. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
These were boys who grew up together to be men who grew apart. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:02 | |
The summer of 1969 changed our lives for ever. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:06 | |
Some chose opposite sides in the conflict. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
Some left and never looked back. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
Many of them went on to be very successful in their lives. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
For the first time in nearly 50 years, | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
I want to track them down and bring them back together in Ardoyne. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:22 | |
I was aware of the fact that there was a cachet about | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
being from Ardoyne, it was a place apart. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:37 | |
I wonder... what it would have been like | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
to grow up in a normal place. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
In a sense, I regret that I didn't get that. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
When you consider we were all dealing with life and death | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
on a daily basis... | 0:02:51 | 0:02:53 | |
I mean, that's not the average experience | 0:02:53 | 0:02:56 | |
of an 11 and 12-year-old that's growing up. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
Living in Ardoyne during the darkest days of the Troubles, | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
people began to develop an island's mentality. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:06 | |
There's a sense of | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
here is something that all of us had in common at one stage, | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
but from that common experience, | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
people decided that they would go off in different paths | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
that's led them into many different areas, throughout the world. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
Hello, Gerard? | 0:03:26 | 0:03:27 | |
'Yeah.' | 0:03:27 | 0:03:28 | |
Gerard, it's Brian McKee here from up the Holy Cross... | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
Hello? | 0:03:32 | 0:03:33 | |
'Brian?' | 0:03:33 | 0:03:34 | |
I tell you what it is, we've talked about a reunion | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
of some of the fellows who were altar boys during the '60s... | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
Is there any way that you know | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
that we might be able to get in touch with him? | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
Sure. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
But you're open to the idea? | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
You're the next one... | 0:03:50 | 0:03:51 | |
'I suppose my worries is that some people may choose not to take part | 0:03:51 | 0:03:55 | |
'and that may be because of something in their personal story. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
'It may be because of something within someone else's story | 0:03:59 | 0:04:03 | |
'who's coming together.' | 0:04:03 | 0:04:04 | |
In the same garden there's so many different flowers. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
You know, and that's really what life's like, you know? | 0:04:08 | 0:04:12 | |
We're not all going to be roses. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
You might get a few jaggy nettles. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:18 | |
When I was in the church here as an altar boy, | 0:04:19 | 0:04:23 | |
it was all pure innocence. | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
I still cherish the good memories | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
and the happy days, | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
the days of total joy. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
My father was a bricklayer | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
and my mother was just a genius at everything. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
They were both active republicans. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:44 | |
People might find this strange | 0:04:46 | 0:04:47 | |
when I say every member of my family had been in a prison. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:52 | |
It was one of the sad facts that you are a product of your environment | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
and the environment we had here was such that... | 0:04:58 | 0:05:01 | |
..if you didn't swim you'd sink. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
I remember being over on the Falls Road. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
The RUC had come out | 0:05:10 | 0:05:12 | |
and as they were coming down the street | 0:05:12 | 0:05:14 | |
they were beating their riot shields with their batons, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
and the RUC man... | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
spat at me... | 0:05:20 | 0:05:22 | |
cowering in a doorway. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
I was dragged out of the doorway and... | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
the RUC man started slaughtering me. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:29 | |
The bruises and all the thumps all healed, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
but that man and his language... | 0:05:35 | 0:05:37 | |
..left a lasting scar. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
I would say that I was involved in the republican struggle | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
and I'd leave it at that. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:49 | |
PRIEST CHANTS IN LATIN | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
We all started off from a point of mutual understanding, | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
which was we were altar boys. | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
And yet, we all took several different paths. | 0:06:01 | 0:06:06 | |
I remember telling my mother and father | 0:06:06 | 0:06:08 | |
I was contemplating joining the police. | 0:06:08 | 0:06:10 | |
Well, he just said, "Well, it's the lesser of two evils." | 0:06:10 | 0:06:13 | |
He then came out and said then, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:16 | |
"Well, it is better to be buried by the state | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
"than to be buried by the IRA." | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
To come from where I am to be a Catholic joining the RUC, | 0:06:21 | 0:06:25 | |
I knew, once in it... | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
there probably really was no... | 0:06:27 | 0:06:30 | |
turning back. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:31 | |
My life dramatically changed, | 0:06:31 | 0:06:35 | |
where I was a civilian, 18 years of age, | 0:06:35 | 0:06:40 | |
playing a bit of hurling, becoming a sworn officer with powers. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:45 | |
I mean, I just wonder... | 0:06:46 | 0:06:47 | |
..did anybody wonder where I went | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
or did they know where I went, or... did they care where I went? | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
How far did he get on in it? What was his rank? | 0:07:00 | 0:07:04 | |
-ALL YELL: -Prince Charles! Prince Charles! | 0:07:04 | 0:07:06 | |
-GERRY: -'I am the head of the close protection branch, | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
'the superintendent responsible for the protection of the Royal Family | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
'while visiting Northern Ireland.' | 0:07:13 | 0:07:15 | |
..Are these all your neighbours? | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
I'm the longest-serving Catholic police officer. | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
Oh, that was an act of treachery. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
I'll just let it mellow around in my head for a while. | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
We're not just products of the past but the past has made us what we are. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
As altar boys, we shared the same experiences growing up | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
and had a common bond. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:48 | |
But the events that were to come would change everything. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
These were people who made decisions at a particular point in time | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
and that's part and parcel of the whole story of Ardoyne. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:57 | |
You know, different paths, different people, different choices. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
-There you go. -SEAN LAUGHS | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
Well, good, that's a start anyway. Here we go... | 0:08:05 | 0:08:08 | |
-There's... -CATHAL LAUGHS | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
..four fish on three hooks, not bad. Whoa! | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
-Oh, look at that. -Oh, look. A wrasse. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
All I can say is, thanks be to God, they are very stupid fish. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:21 | |
'Life is complicated. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:23 | |
'You know, people report on Belfast,' | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
they report on Ardoyne and it's all very simple. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
You know, bigots and terrorists | 0:08:27 | 0:08:30 | |
and labels all over the place. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
It's not like that, it's human beings caught up in situations. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
First memories of Ardoyne are strange. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
But very aware, of course, | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
when you looked out the window | 0:08:43 | 0:08:44 | |
on the front of the house, what did you see? The church. | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
Holy Cross, Ardoyne, that was it. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:48 | |
It kind of then became the dominant symbol in my life. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:51 | |
A lot of my friends would have been altar boys | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
and Cathal, of course, was an altar boy too, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:57 | |
leading the way, my older brother. | 0:08:57 | 0:08:59 | |
-ALL: -..In the name of the Father, and of the Son | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
and of the Holy Ghost. Amen. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:02 | |
BELL TOLLS | 0:09:02 | 0:09:04 | |
What I remember about it was the sense of camaraderie, fellowship... | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
I don't recall ever being even remotely aware of anything improper | 0:09:09 | 0:09:15 | |
in the attitude of priests to me or to anyone else that I knew of. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:19 | |
We used to have unspoken competitions to see who could | 0:09:20 | 0:09:24 | |
ring the bells the loudest. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:26 | |
One judged one's peers | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
by the ferocity with which you banged the bells. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
BELLS TOLL | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
I might be imagining this, but I think I was good at it! | 0:09:34 | 0:09:37 | |
Cathal was a big messer. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
You know, you'd never have thought that he would have achieved so much. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:45 | |
I would say about all the altar boys, | 0:09:45 | 0:09:46 | |
there was no angels among them. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
They might have been good altar boys, | 0:09:48 | 0:09:50 | |
but I don't think they were... they were angels. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
It was like a boys' club. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:55 | |
Although we were in the monastery, we never talked about religion. | 0:09:57 | 0:10:01 | |
You know, we talked about football. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
As I was growing up, then we talked about girls. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
I do remember Sean at one stage had a little gang, as it were. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:11 | |
You had to have a password to get in... | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
And I could never keep remembering it, | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
-so I didn't last very long. -HE GIGGLES | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
We were all brought down one Sunday | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
and shown this room which got called Australia | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
cos it was underground... | 0:10:25 | 0:10:27 | |
Uh, but there it was - a table tennis table! | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
Who'd seen such a thing?! | 0:10:31 | 0:10:32 | |
And it was for the altar boys. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
He always fancied himself as a bit of a table tennis player, so it'll be | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
interesting to see just how much, how far he went along that career path. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:42 | |
ALTAR BOYS SING HYMN | 0:10:42 | 0:10:44 | |
One of the great perks of the altar boys was that, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:48 | |
when you were on an early Mass in the morning, | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
Brother Paschal made a large jug of lovely coffee. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
And obviously, he put the sugar into it and he put the milk... | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
But even now, when I talk, I can actually taste the coffee... | 0:11:01 | 0:11:04 | |
It was just amazing, I've never tasted coffee like it since. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:09 | |
I think joining the altar was... | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
It was a good thing cos when you were there, you know, there was | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
somebody to talk to, to have a bit of craic with and stuff like that. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
The altar boys were a very close-knit set of friends | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
and that's probably the strength of being an altar boy, | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
was that you were part of something | 0:11:26 | 0:11:28 | |
that was much bigger than yourself. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
It was an important role that you were playing... | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
And these other people were your partners. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
RECORD PLAYER CLICKS | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
MUSIC: We Shall Overcome by Joan Baez | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
Little did we realise that that wonderful innocence of childhood | 0:11:44 | 0:11:48 | |
was about to be taken away from us. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:50 | |
Here we have the altar list for 17 August 1969, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:57 | |
which was the weekend when, I suppose, | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
mayhem broke out on the streets of Ardoyne. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:01 | |
GUNFIRE | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
Stay inside, OK, son? | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
Sectarian rioting marked the beginning of a decades-long conflict | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
that shaped the rest of our lives. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
# We shall overcome... # | 0:12:14 | 0:12:18 | |
It was a strange feeling when you were growing up | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
watching the whole thing unfold in front of you. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
Part of it, you were scared, but also the excitement of it. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
10 years of age, it's almost as if, you know, | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
Indiana Jones had come to Ardoyne. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:31 | |
# Oh, deep... # | 0:12:33 | 0:12:35 | |
And it seemed to us that there was a riot outside the house for... | 0:12:35 | 0:12:38 | |
..two or three years, nonstop. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:40 | |
We closed the shutters in case the windows were broken | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
and those shutters were never opened again, | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
there was no daylight in that room ever again. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:48 | |
Fear, absolute fear. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:52 | |
I was terrified. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:53 | |
You could see through the skylight in my bedroom, | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
the flames were leaping high and houses were being burnt, and... | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
..I was just...terrified. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:02 | |
Shaking in the bed, just wanting this to be over. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
LOUD EXPLOSION | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
# We shall overcome | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
# Some day | 0:13:12 | 0:13:16 | |
# Oh, deep in my heart | 0:13:16 | 0:13:23 | |
# I do believe | 0:13:23 | 0:13:27 | |
# That we shall... | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
# ..Overcome some day. # | 0:13:29 | 0:13:36 | |
It made me think that... | 0:13:37 | 0:13:39 | |
the revolution was coming and, you know, prepare for the revolution. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
Cos the situation wasn't in my control | 0:13:47 | 0:13:51 | |
or really in any young person's control. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
Fellas of the same age as me ended up behind bars. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
Sometimes for doing nothing, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
and sometimes for doing perfectly awful things. | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
Um... It could have been me. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
I did join the local branch of the Fein. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
I think the local priest had seen me, | 0:14:13 | 0:14:17 | |
so I was confronted by my father. | 0:14:17 | 0:14:19 | |
And I left. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:20 | |
So, my career as a freedom fighter was very, very short. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:26 | |
You can't ignore it when it's coming into your own home, | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
when it's YOUR family. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
I was interned on two occasions. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
It was another level of education for me, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
where I got a degree out of Long Kesh... | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
The university of freedom. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:49 | |
"We're right, they're wrong." I could never see it in those terms. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
It was never that clear. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
Cos, I mean, the IRA, what they were up to, I couldn't relate to. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:03 | |
I couldn't relate to it. | 0:15:03 | 0:15:05 | |
Innocent people were being killed. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
I suppose I began to take refuge in the church. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:09 | |
In the madness, that was a safe place. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:12 | |
CHILDREN SING | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
Maybe in and around that time the whole vocation thing was at work. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:20 | |
I had to escape. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:22 | |
Yeah. | 0:15:22 | 0:15:23 | |
I was ordained in 1984 and then the next day, my first Mass in Ardoyne. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:29 | |
Very emotional time. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
Are we altar boys or priests now, you know? | 0:15:32 | 0:15:34 | |
Yeah, I was going to go to Rome, live in Rome for three years, | 0:15:34 | 0:15:37 | |
I mean, that was just... | 0:15:37 | 0:15:39 | |
It doesn't get any better. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:41 | |
My daddy said, "A poor man from Belfast, look at me, look at us, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
"and here we are, we've just had Mass with the Pope!" | 0:15:45 | 0:15:48 | |
Absolutely...beside themselves. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
There's always a sense with people, you know, | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
that Ardoyne kind of punched above its weight. | 0:15:57 | 0:16:00 | |
You know, that despite everything that went on there, you know, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
the Ardoyne people still managed to rise above it. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
All I can say with any certainty is that | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
I was fortunate to meet certain people at certain times. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
I didn't get arrested, I didn't get shot, I wasn't blown up. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:19 | |
I got a good education. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:22 | |
I was in the right place at the right time | 0:16:22 | 0:16:24 | |
when the job of director general of RTE became advertised. | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
For whatever reason, I was given the job | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
and I stayed in it for seven years. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:33 | |
This friend of mine rang me up after | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
apparently my picture was on the front of the Irish News, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
and he said that it was the first time somebody from Ardoyne | 0:16:38 | 0:16:41 | |
was on the front of the Irish News | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
who wasn't the accused or the deceased. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
So, that-that's kind of playing into the stereotype of hard men | 0:16:46 | 0:16:51 | |
and all that from Ardoyne. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:52 | |
We were in difficult times, it was difficult circumstances, | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
but we were trying... | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
And we got a home fit for heroes. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
When Sinn Fein put itself into election gear, | 0:17:05 | 0:17:09 | |
everybody started to sit back and notice. | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
I'm proud enough to say that I was elected in that first wave | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
of fresh new faces going into Belfast City Council. | 0:17:14 | 0:17:18 | |
I think it's... | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
A lot of people have recognised that Sinn Fein are appealing | 0:17:21 | 0:17:24 | |
across the nationalist divide. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
'Part of my daily work was heading up the North American desk | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
'in Sinn Fein. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
'I had the pleasure of accompanying Gerry Adams | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
'after the '94 ceasefire had been called,' | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
and for whatever small part I played in it, I feel immensely proud. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:43 | |
You know, unlike many of them, Gerard made the decision to stay in Ardoyne. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:48 | |
A lot of people decided to get out quick | 0:17:48 | 0:17:51 | |
and other people decided to get out, to go for a better lifestyle. | 0:17:51 | 0:17:56 | |
'How are you?' | 0:17:56 | 0:17:57 | |
Sean, how are you doing? | 0:17:57 | 0:17:59 | |
This has taken about six weeks to track you down. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
'Oh, right.' | 0:18:01 | 0:18:02 | |
The last time I saw you, is way back in the early '70s | 0:18:02 | 0:18:08 | |
and you were this athletic-looking young man with black, combed hair | 0:18:08 | 0:18:13 | |
with Brylcreem, with a suit and a shirt and a tie on, | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
which is quite unusual in Ardoyne! | 0:18:16 | 0:18:18 | |
I was playing football, sort of, every spare minute you've got. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:25 | |
I was always determined that one way or another | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
I was going to get a living out of it. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:30 | |
Look at that. Ain't that brilliant? Eh? | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
It's big, isn't it? Your grampa used to play football here. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:38 | |
That's where we used to come out | 0:18:38 | 0:18:40 | |
cos that was the changing rooms over there. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
And then we used to come out onto the football pitch to play. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:45 | |
-But why? -Why? Because that's how... Gramp-gramp... | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
Gramp-gramp got paid to play football. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
And it were really good. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
Just to play with so many great players, just, you'd come off and | 0:18:54 | 0:18:57 | |
I was on a high for, like, two or three days afterwards, it's just... | 0:18:57 | 0:19:01 | |
It's just brilliant. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:02 | |
Everybody took a certain pride | 0:19:03 | 0:19:05 | |
in that it was one of our boys, you know. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
Wee lad from Ardoyne, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:09 | |
going over to play for one of the biggest teams in the world. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:12 | |
I know you can head the ball. Watch, head the ball. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:14 | |
-Are you heading the ball? -SEAN LAUGHS | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
You silly devil! | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
Head the ba-a-a-all! | 0:19:20 | 0:19:21 | |
'I think family's everything, isn't it, you know?' | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
-Are you having a beef burger? -OLLIE: -Yeah! | 0:19:23 | 0:19:25 | |
Good lord, Ollie. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:26 | |
'I came in June and my father died in the November. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
'He never saw me playing. I think it really...toughens you up.' | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
There's not much worse going to happen in your life. | 0:19:36 | 0:19:38 | |
He's still there, he's still part of you and it's... | 0:19:40 | 0:19:45 | |
It doesn't go away. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:49 | |
Sorry. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:56 | |
A boy will always want to, in some way, identify with his father | 0:20:02 | 0:20:05 | |
and yet, will always fight with his father. It's what we do. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
What I had in common with Daddy was religion. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:11 | |
I wanted to please him. | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
Why did you leave the priesthood? In my case, it was because | 0:20:13 | 0:20:16 | |
I had to grow up. It wasn't the right choice. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:20 | |
Saying Mass for the last time, I'd arrived at peace about this. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
And I just... He couldn't believe it. He just couldn't believe it. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
And he didn't really cope too well, at all, with it. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:35 | |
The night that he died, | 0:20:36 | 0:20:38 | |
we got into the emergency room. I approached him, right up, | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
into his ear. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:43 | |
And I told him, "I'm here. Dad. I'm going to give you absolution", | 0:20:44 | 0:20:48 | |
which, of course, is the role of a priest. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
My brother said to me, "He opened his eyes, you know, | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
"when you spoke to him." | 0:20:55 | 0:20:56 | |
HE SNIFFLES AND SOBS | 0:20:59 | 0:21:03 | |
The relationship had been fractured over the whole priesthood thing. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:12 | |
Somehow, then, the priesthood thing, kind of, mended it, at the end. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
Hello, would that be Brendan? | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
'Yes, it is, yes. How are you?' | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
Brendan, it's Brian here. How are you doing? | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
-Great to hear you. -'I'm doing good.' | 0:21:29 | 0:21:31 | |
I think he's one of the guys who, when he left, he didn't come back | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
and seems to be someone who's very much at the top of the tree | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
in his own profession. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:39 | |
Brendan trained as both a dentist and a doctor in Belfast, | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
before emigrating to America. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
'I am an assistant clinical professor. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
'My main interest is in trauma. People that have been in | 0:21:49 | 0:21:52 | |
'car accidents or the victims of trauma to the face, | 0:21:52 | 0:21:55 | |
'I would be involved in their reconstruction.' | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
-Lower right. -I can do a triage for you. -OK. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
Tell me about the patient. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
He's...healthy, for the most part, except for psychiatric medications. | 0:22:05 | 0:22:09 | |
Part of my job' demands that I do have to have a resilience. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:15 | |
'Those early days in Ardoyne were very formative in developing that.' | 0:22:15 | 0:22:21 | |
-How old is he? -46. -Wow. -Yeah, so, actually... | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
'In Belfast, I saw some horrendous things. | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
'I remember being in the Royal Victoria one night | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
'when a police officer came in. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
'A mortar bomb had exploded over his head' | 0:22:35 | 0:22:37 | |
and I remember lifting the tea towel and there was chunks of his brain | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
sticking to the tea towel, you know? | 0:22:41 | 0:22:44 | |
So, you don't forget that. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
-There you go. -Thank you so much. I appreciate it. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
All right. Good job. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:50 | |
It's going to be a celebration of all the altar boys. | 0:22:57 | 0:23:02 | |
How do you feel about going back to Belfast | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
and then meeting the altar boys? | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
It's going to be excellent, because I haven't seen any of these people | 0:23:06 | 0:23:13 | |
that I served Mass with, in... | 0:23:13 | 0:23:17 | |
..40 years, you know? | 0:23:18 | 0:23:19 | |
It is going to be great. I'm looking forward to it, | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
because we've all gone in very, very different directions. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:26 | |
They'll not recognise themselves. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
'It'll be interesting to meet these guys and to see, is there something | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
'that we identify as a shared trait. Are we all thick bastards | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
'or is there something far more meaningful behind it all?' | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
'I haven't been in the Ardoyne since I joined the police. | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
'I have no idea how I will feel.' | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
'I hope he can sleep easy with himself | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
'and it doesn't come back and cause him any sleepless nights. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
'I fear it might.' | 0:24:08 | 0:24:10 | |
'I'll try not to judge him too harshly.' | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
-Are they still the same bells? -They are, yes. -Can I? | 0:24:18 | 0:24:20 | |
RINGING | 0:24:22 | 0:24:23 | |
You was never ever any good at ringing the bells! | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
-How are you? -Great. -You haven't changed a bit. -Oh! | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
How are you all? You're all looking well. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
I have this memory of you playing football up in the playing fields. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
I'm glad somebody's got a memory because I can't remember yesterday! | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
How are you? | 0:24:41 | 0:24:42 | |
You're very welcome. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:44 | |
-You're very welcome. -Thank you. -Do you know any of these bandits? | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
Cal, of course! | 0:24:48 | 0:24:49 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:24:49 | 0:24:50 | |
Gerry, how are you doing? | 0:24:50 | 0:24:51 | |
Gerard, how are you doing? | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
I've perhaps been your nemesis in times gone by. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
-LAUGHTER -Absolutely. | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
Well, I'm now chairperson of the PSNI club... | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
The dirtiest team in the league, the PSNI. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:03 | |
More suspensions than anybody else. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:05 | |
It's the only time you get a chance to kick a peeler! | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
So, it's of benefit! | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
What's this assertion that I was late all the time?! | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
I want to see this. | 0:25:12 | 0:25:14 | |
The nearest one to the church and he's late. | 0:25:14 | 0:25:16 | |
Obviously, my mother used to say that - | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
"The nearest the church, the further from God." | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:25:22 | 0:25:24 | |
-Your mother was very wise, wasn't she?! -She was right! | 0:25:24 | 0:25:27 | |
There's a resemblance, you know, when you were a child. | 0:25:27 | 0:25:30 | |
When I walked in there, I says, "I know this person." | 0:25:30 | 0:25:33 | |
Would you have a few hours free | 0:25:33 | 0:25:35 | |
-tomorrow afternoon, do a wee bit of... -Oh! | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
-Oh, I couldn't... -Just have them out. Be easier! | 0:25:38 | 0:25:42 | |
No, you wouldn't want me to do your dentistry. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:44 | |
I had to do surgery because I was a lousy dentist, you see? | 0:25:44 | 0:25:48 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
It is strange that we all started off here as altar boys | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
and then we've all grown bad. I ended up in the Special Patrol Group | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
-in Tennant Street. -Not my favourite people! | 0:25:58 | 0:26:00 | |
No, no, but I always thought of myself as one of the good guys. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:05 | |
'Often, there is a need for reconciliation within communities. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:10 | |
'There needs to be the acknowledgement | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
'and the acceptance that people did choose different paths.' | 0:26:12 | 0:26:15 | |
Did you not recognise that there was violence coming from the RUC? | 0:26:16 | 0:26:21 | |
I found it so remarkable to hear that there was an altar boy | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
who'd served at the altar in Ardoyne who had went on to join it. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:28 | |
I'll be the first to hold my hand up and say | 0:26:28 | 0:26:32 | |
the RUC wasn't lily-white, but there were a lot of good | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
and honourable men and women in the RUC. Maybe I was naive, | 0:26:36 | 0:26:41 | |
but I honestly believed I was doing something good. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:46 | |
If you were inside that police organisation | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
and you were looking out, some of the things we were doing, | 0:26:48 | 0:26:52 | |
we actually thought, "We're doing it right." | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
It's amazing there that I am sitting here with you. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:59 | |
To disagree over... | 0:26:59 | 0:27:01 | |
-And to disagree and to be able to walk away without violence... -Yes. | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
..but, by God, what a path you have come upon | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
but what a path I have come upon. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
Tonight is a very special night, because we celebrate this Mass | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
for the reunion of our altar servers and boys. Well, traditionally... | 0:27:20 | 0:27:26 | |
'42 years after joining the police, coming through the most horrendous | 0:27:26 | 0:27:30 | |
'violence in Northern Ireland, I, for one, am just so grateful | 0:27:30 | 0:27:36 | |
'and, actually, thank God that I am alive.' | 0:27:36 | 0:27:39 | |
RINGING | 0:27:39 | 0:27:40 | |
'I think you've just got to, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:44 | |
'as granny says, to thine ownself be true.' | 0:27:44 | 0:27:47 | |
'No matter what you do, you've got to be lucky. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:51 | |
'If you get a little bit of luck, take everything that comes your way | 0:27:51 | 0:27:55 | |
'and enjoy it.' | 0:27:55 | 0:27:57 | |
'Not everything has been perfect, but...it's been true. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
'It's been life.' | 0:28:03 | 0:28:04 | |
'There was something that was very good about being in a place | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
'with such a strong sense of parish and belonging | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
'and, even after the Troubles broke out, you had this bond with people. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:17 | |
'There is that kind of sense, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:19 | |
'you can't get away from where you come from. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:22 | |
'It's always going to be part and parcel of who you are.' | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
'I'm from Ardoyne.' | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
'That's all right. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:31 | |
'That means something.' | 0:28:31 | 0:28:33 | |
They know how to look after themselves in Ardoyne! | 0:28:34 | 0:28:38 | |
CHOIR SINGS | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 |