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For my generation, dating is all digital, | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
but not everyone wants to swipe right and date strangers. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
In my culture, many prefer to find their partner offline, | 0:00:09 | 0:00:13 | |
and in the family... | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
with their cousins. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:17 | |
What should I do? | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
Cousin marriage divides a nation, and my family. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
My uncle is in favour. | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
You would have a better chance with the cousin marriage | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
than marrying outside. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:30 | |
Dad is on the fence. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:31 | |
In principle, I'm not against cousin marriages. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
I'm not pro, but I'm not against. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
And Mum is dead opposed. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:39 | |
I was married to my first cousin. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
It broke down, and I was able to get out of quite a nasty situation. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:48 | |
In Pakistan, I'll meet my cousins. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:50 | |
I'm not sure whether something like that could even work for me, maybe. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:55 | |
But here, loads say, "No way." | 0:00:55 | 0:00:57 | |
-It's just wrong. -Yeah, it's wrong. | 0:00:57 | 0:00:59 | |
Possible incest, I don't know. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
I thought it was illegal in England. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
You are going to be, technically, inbred. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:05 | |
As I look at my options, | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
the risk of this Pakistani tradition starts to really scare me. | 0:01:08 | 0:01:12 | |
VOICEOVER: My name is Hiba, I'm 18, and I'm from Bradford. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
As a young British Pakistani, I've started to think about marriage. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:29 | |
I don't think I have a type, really. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:32 | |
I'm looking for a guy who's trustworthy, open-minded, | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
those kind of things. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:38 | |
As well as obviously being good-looking, | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
and tall and dark and whatever, but I wouldn't mind if he's not, | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
like, America's Next Top Model, or anything. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:48 | |
I'd always want Hiba to marry somebody who has a deep | 0:01:48 | 0:01:53 | |
respect for his religion, knowledge, who has deep respect for her. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:57 | |
I think somebody like me. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
But at the end of the day, it's going to be my daughter's choice. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:04 | |
Around me, up to 70% of all British Pakistanis marry their cousins... | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
..including my own grandparents. | 0:02:11 | 0:02:13 | |
My mummy and his mummy is sisters. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:18 | |
They're like each other. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
They've been married for 54 years. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:23 | |
Would I be crazy not to follow them, | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
or should I turn my back on tradition? | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
First up, I really need to chat to some young, loved-up cousins. | 0:02:32 | 0:02:36 | |
Hello, is this Sonia? | 0:02:36 | 0:02:37 | |
I just wanted to speak to you about possibly coming on a | 0:02:37 | 0:02:41 | |
documentary that I'm doing about cousin marriages for BBC Three. | 0:02:41 | 0:02:45 | |
I just wanted to ask if you'd be willing to participate. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:49 | |
Could you possibly tell me why you don't want to? | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
Why? What's the fallout? | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
They straight up said no. | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
Do you know anybody else who might want to take part? | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
Cos we're struggling to find people. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
You'll just have to keep trying. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
It's really frustrating that no-one will come on camera | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
and talk to me about the issue... | 0:03:12 | 0:03:16 | |
but I'm guessing they kind of feel like they might... | 0:03:16 | 0:03:19 | |
..feel a bit attacked. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
Cos most of us are Muslim, | 0:03:22 | 0:03:23 | |
so we always see a lot on the media that's really negative about us, | 0:03:23 | 0:03:28 | |
so I feel like... | 0:03:28 | 0:03:29 | |
..anyone brown is just scared of a camera now, | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
because you just think that your words are going to be twisted. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
No-one my age will talk to me, but luckily | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
my dad's brother in Newcastle will. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:47 | |
-As-Salaam-Alaikum. -As-Salaam-Alaikum How are you? I'm OK. -All right. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:50 | |
-How are you? -All right, thank you. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:53 | |
Uncle Younis is married to his cousin, | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
and four out of five of his children married their cousins too. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:59 | |
In Asian marriages, you're not marrying a person, | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
you're marrying a family as well. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:03 | |
And I think it's easier when they come from the same core values. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:08 | |
So, say I had the choice between a cousin or someone I had met at, say, | 0:04:08 | 0:04:13 | |
-uni, or something... -Yeah. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:14 | |
Which one do you think would be better for me? | 0:04:14 | 0:04:16 | |
I would go for the family one. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
I mean, I've been married 44 years, coming up to 45, | 0:04:19 | 0:04:25 | |
and I can hand on heart say it's been a beautiful journey. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
My uncle makes it sound so good. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
I'm beginning to see how cousin marriages might work. | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
It's quite nice to just see that he's, kind of, | 0:04:45 | 0:04:49 | |
unapologetically for cousin marriages, | 0:04:49 | 0:04:51 | |
and he doesn't really care that it's something that might be looked down | 0:04:51 | 0:04:55 | |
upon, or something that might be seen negatively. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:58 | |
And if the stats are anything to go by | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
cousin marriage seems a pretty good option. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:06 | |
42% of all marriages end in divorce, | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
but amongst first cousins, | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
it's just 20%. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
That's really encouraging, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:16 | |
but just how successful have cousin marriages been in my own family? | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
Dad's always been desperate for me to learn more about my heritage. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
Today is his lucky day. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
Right, Hiba, this is your family tree. | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
We start off with an ancestor, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
Chanda. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:36 | |
So, if we highlight... | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
That's a cousin marriage. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
That's a cousin marriage. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:46 | |
This was a cousin marriage. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
By the time we get to Mum's family, it gets even more complicated. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:57 | |
All three of them were married to first cousins. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
All of these guys were married to first cousins. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:05 | |
Why don't we just scribble the whole board red? | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
This is the young people in your generation, | 0:06:08 | 0:06:11 | |
and these would be the... | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
single guys in your age bracket. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
They're the only eligible kind of people in our entire family. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:22 | |
The only cousins my age live in Pakistan, | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
so to find out how I really feel | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
about all this, I've got to meet them. | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
I don't really know what to expect, cos I've never met | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
my cousins from Pakistan before. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
I feel like there might be a thing of we won't have anything to talk | 0:06:40 | 0:06:44 | |
about, because, I don't know, | 0:06:44 | 0:06:46 | |
I'm guessing we have quite different lifestyles, | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
or maybe I'm just assuming that, but I'm not sure. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:53 | |
I think it'll be interesting to see whether... | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
..or even if, something like that could even work for me, maybe. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
VOICEOVER: It's going to be nerve-racking. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:08 | |
-Do you recognise any of it? -No. -Of course you don't, no. | 0:07:08 | 0:07:12 | |
This is only my second visit to Pakistan. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:15 | |
Last time I was here, I was just four years old. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
-I swear they have that shop in Bradford. -Have they? | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
We're in Mirpur, the north-east corner of Pakistan, | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
where 70% of all Pakistani people in Britain come from - | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
including both sides of my family. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
That's our land over there. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
This is my uncle's house. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
This is where your grandfather was born, your Uncle Younis was born, | 0:07:47 | 0:07:52 | |
and Uncle Mahmood was born. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
VOICEOVER: I've mostly been thinking about love, | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
but I'm starting to see some other bonuses to cousin marriage - | 0:07:56 | 0:08:00 | |
like money. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:01 | |
The inheritance stays in the family. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
My dad's cousin Rafiq still lives here in the family village. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:10 | |
At last, cousins my age. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
Saba, who's divorced, is 21. | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
Eiman, 18. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Safra is 12. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
My chance to see what's in it for the girls. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
If you were to consider getting married soon, | 0:08:25 | 0:08:27 | |
cos you guys are of that age where you start thinking about it, | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
would you prefer marrying a cousin | 0:08:31 | 0:08:33 | |
over someone from outside of the family? | 0:08:33 | 0:08:35 | |
In some ways, yeah. It depends. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
Sometimes, you have to listen to your parents as well, | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
what they want, to keep them happy as well. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
Do you think that's important, keeping your parents happy? | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
Sometimes, yeah, cos they've done a lot for you when you was young, | 0:08:45 | 0:08:48 | |
and stuff. So, if you don't listen to your parents, it's kind of bad, | 0:08:48 | 0:08:52 | |
cos then they think that you don't love them and stuff like that. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
In family, like, if something goes wrong in the marriage, | 0:08:55 | 0:08:58 | |
you can at least ask 'em, cos they're, like, family, | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
and they, like, look after you properly and stuff. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
But as for me, like, I got married outside, and it's... | 0:09:04 | 0:09:08 | |
I don't know. It was just, like, an outside, and it was really hard. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
So, was that in Pakistan, or was it in England? | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
-It was in England. -And you married somebody from outside the family, | 0:09:13 | 0:09:15 | |
-and you found that harder? -It was really hard, yeah. | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
-Why did you find it hard? -Because the guy that I married, he had, like... | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
He wasn't bothered, like, never spent time or anything, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:25 | |
always be with his family and stuff, like, | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
whatever they'd tell him to do, he'd do it. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
-Like, if they... Like, basically, I was like a servant for them. -Mmm-hmm. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
So they take, like, girls from Pakistan to England to, like, be the servant. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
So, if you were to marry again, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
-would you prefer to marry inside the family? -Inside the family. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
It's so much better. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
I never even thought that marrying a cousin might protect women... | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
..but in our culture, girls move in with their husband's family, | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
so it makes sense. | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
You already know your in-laws, and they already know you. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:02 | |
Let me show you your grandfather's grave. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
That's Mohamed Shafi Whalid Mohamed Kushir. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:13 | |
This is the very top of that family tree - Chanda. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
Yeah? We called him Baba Chanda. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
It's a bit of an honour and a privilege, actually, to show my daughter, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
um...you know, the... | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
..one of our great ancestors. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
VOICEOVER: In Britain, it's all about you. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
Here, it's not like that. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
Whatever I decide will impact on my entire family. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:46 | |
What I would like... You, and your brothers, and me, and everybody | 0:10:48 | 0:10:54 | |
is to maintain this connection... | 0:10:54 | 0:10:57 | |
..to this little piece of land on planet Earth. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:01 | |
These were the people who you came from. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
The family unit means everything to Pakistani people. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:11 | |
Family defines who you are... | 0:11:14 | 0:11:15 | |
..and your standing in the community. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
So, today was my first full day in Pakistan, | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
and I went to my dad's family's village. | 0:11:27 | 0:11:34 | |
It's very small, and if you marry someone from that village, | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
they're bound to be related to you somehow. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
It showed why people did it, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:42 | |
but it doesn't really show why people might do it now, I think. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
The next day, I notice a wedding taking place at the hotel we're staying at... | 0:11:49 | 0:11:54 | |
and not just any celebration. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
It's a double wedding. | 0:11:57 | 0:11:58 | |
The brides are sisters. | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
They've agreed to speak to me on their big day, | 0:12:01 | 0:12:04 | |
but their father's asked us to film them from the side | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
to preserve their modesty. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
So, could you guys tell me who you're going to marry today? | 0:12:09 | 0:12:11 | |
So, is there anything in particular that you liked about your cousin | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
that made you want to marry him? | 0:12:29 | 0:12:31 | |
VOICEOVER: Most marriages in Pakistan are arranged by the parents. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
Some are forced but, increasingly, the bride and groom are given a say. | 0:13:03 | 0:13:08 | |
So, if we go for the coconut gulab jamun there, and these ones here? | 0:13:08 | 0:13:13 | |
The number of weddings where individuals choose their partner, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
we call them "love marriages", is less than... | 0:13:16 | 0:13:20 | |
Who I marry is totally up to me, | 0:13:24 | 0:13:27 | |
but that doesn't make the decision any easier. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:30 | |
Today, I'm finally meeting my cousins. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
So, these are my cousin's children. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:39 | |
-Hmm. -You know, your generation of young people who we'll be meeting. | 0:13:39 | 0:13:43 | |
I haven't met them before either, so it should be interesting. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:48 | |
VOICEOVER: I'm not good at all in family gatherings. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
Right now, I'm feeling nervous. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:53 | |
As-Salaam-Alaikum. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:01 | |
As-Salaam-Alaikum. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:08 | |
On the sofa are my two male cousins. | 0:14:08 | 0:14:11 | |
There are two other cousins in the room - | 0:14:32 | 0:14:33 | |
Naheed, who's 21, and Sundas, who is 17. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
No-one knows quite what to do. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:43 | |
It's really awkward. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
So, us cousins head out. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:47 | |
Do you guys think about marriage at all - | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
specifically, about cousin marriages? | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
There are over 350 different castes, or social classes, | 0:15:22 | 0:15:26 | |
in Pakistani society, so the pool | 0:15:26 | 0:15:29 | |
of potential partners can be small, | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
especially if you don't live in a big city. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
Despite this, I sense some hesitancy to cousin marriage from the girls. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:40 | |
Do you guys agree with that? | 0:15:40 | 0:15:41 | |
Would you say that you would have a cousin marriage? | 0:15:41 | 0:15:43 | |
So, would you prefer | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
to then get a marriage outside of the family, because of that? | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
VOICEOVER: I couldn't really tell what they were like, | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
but they seem nice enough. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
I think it was awkward for all of us, really. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:30 | |
Cos when you... Especially when | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
you're family and you haven't met each other before, | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
it's kind of like... "What do I say? What do I do?" | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
There's loads to weigh up. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:42 | |
Being here has made me see the benefits of marrying your cousin, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:46 | |
like security and stability. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:48 | |
But I can't get what Sundas said out of my head. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:52 | |
The genetic risks sound incredibly scary. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
Before I decide anything, | 0:16:58 | 0:17:00 | |
I need to know exactly what the dangers are. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
I don't think it's a good thing, | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
because of the genetic issues it can cause for children. | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
I think people who are thinking | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
about marrying their cousins | 0:17:21 | 0:17:22 | |
should do their research, and | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
be really open to the fact | 0:17:25 | 0:17:27 | |
that they could have children | 0:17:27 | 0:17:28 | |
with genetic illnesses. | 0:17:28 | 0:17:29 | |
It's not ideal, is it, keeping | 0:17:29 | 0:17:31 | |
everything within the one gene pool? | 0:17:31 | 0:17:33 | |
Leads to loads of different complications, I guess. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
If they're going to be having | 0:17:36 | 0:17:38 | |
offspring and stuff, | 0:17:38 | 0:17:39 | |
then that's forcing them to | 0:17:39 | 0:17:42 | |
have genetic deformities, really. | 0:17:42 | 0:17:43 | |
Is this all true? Does this really happen? | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
I'm back in Newcastle with Uncle Younis | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
to see what the possible risks of marrying in the family are. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
I'm here to help you to make that decision... | 0:17:57 | 0:18:01 | |
..as an elder. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:03 | |
I'm going to take you to a friend of mine who has married a first cousin. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:11 | |
It'll give you a better idea | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
of the worst-case scenarios that we're talking about. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:20 | |
Ifti Khan and his wife Mehnaz have three children... | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
..two of whom are severely autistic. | 0:18:27 | 0:18:29 | |
Good girl! | 0:18:29 | 0:18:30 | |
This is Marianna Fatima, but we call her Fatima. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:37 | |
She is going to be... She's 19, she's going to be 20 in June. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
Those two outdoor clogs have to be there facing that direction. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:47 | |
If we change direction, Fatima will come here, | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
notice it and change the direction again, | 0:18:50 | 0:18:51 | |
so things have to be in their place. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
She's non-verbal. She doesn't have any communication system. | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
She's at the severe end of the autistic spectrum. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
This is Rohan and he's 12 years old. | 0:19:09 | 0:19:11 | |
Is it clear? Is it clear? | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
He's very particular about things that he likes and dislikes. | 0:19:15 | 0:19:18 | |
I want the sky all blue. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:19 | |
As he said, he wants the sky all to be blue. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:21 | |
We've got to be patient, don't we? | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
Yeah? Can you get one of the tissues? | 0:19:23 | 0:19:24 | |
Will you just bring the tissue box inside? | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
Oh, you want to do it yourself? OK. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
-It will get clear. -Yeah. -I promise it will get clear. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:34 | |
The kids give us... | 0:19:36 | 0:19:37 | |
give us a lot of challenging moments, a lot of hard work, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:43 | |
but a lot of joy as well. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:44 | |
When you got married, did you think about the genetics issue at all? | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
-No. -You didn't? | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
Well, it was in the back of my mind, | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
but then I looked around and I thought, | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
we looked around and we thought that we've got other relatives | 0:19:54 | 0:19:57 | |
who married cousins and they don't have issues. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
When you think you get on with somebody, and you think you're | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
compatible and you think you're going to have a good life together, | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
it's the last thing that comes to your mind. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
And then we obviously started stressing about it, you know, | 0:20:09 | 0:20:11 | |
when Fatima was diagnosed, | 0:20:11 | 0:20:13 | |
and you're getting to this issue of maybe blaming yourself, that, | 0:20:13 | 0:20:19 | |
you know, we got into a cousin marriage, | 0:20:19 | 0:20:21 | |
and maybe that's the reason why | 0:20:21 | 0:20:23 | |
our kids have these learning difficulties and disabilities. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
When we began to look around, we found out that there's a lot of people | 0:20:26 | 0:20:30 | |
who aren't related, um... | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
whose children have autism. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:35 | |
I think the scientific world is still | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
at the point of speculating, consistently. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:41 | |
They get a little bit of information, | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
they expand on that information and create a theory out of it. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
But even if it is just a theory, do you still think it's worth the risk? | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
If you think you want to minimise your risks... | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
don't go for a cousin marriage. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
But don't allow yourself to believe that you are absolutely safe from | 0:20:57 | 0:21:02 | |
these conditions just because you're not in a cousin marriage. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
We've done a lot of, you know, soul-searching over it, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
both me and Mehnaz, done a lot of soul-searching, | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
but we've come to the conclusion | 0:21:17 | 0:21:18 | |
that it's luck of the draw, I think. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
You know, whatever happens, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:22 | |
it happens because nature intends it to happen. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
Maybe God choose us to put, uh, put this situation. | 0:21:25 | 0:21:31 | |
It's like a test, could be test for us. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
It was a bit... | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
It was a bit hard to be in that room and see that, um... | 0:21:44 | 0:21:49 | |
..they have to live like that. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:51 | |
I felt kind of grateful that I'm... | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
..in a family where that doesn't really affect me... | 0:21:55 | 0:21:59 | |
..because it'd just be hard to see | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
a child that you love with a condition like that, because... | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
You can't really put that into words, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
how you'd feel if that was your child, or even, like... | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
..a child in your family. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:19 | |
I just can't help feeling that genetics is playing a part. | 0:22:23 | 0:22:26 | |
Allah or God's will is something I've heard before | 0:22:29 | 0:22:31 | |
to explain away difficult times. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
But does our religion encourage cousins to get married? | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
To find out, I'm meeting Imam Mohammed Saeed. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
-As-Salaam-Alaikum. -As-Salaam-Alaikum. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:46 | |
So what does the Quran say about cousin marriages? | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
The Quran didn't mention... | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
..marriage with cousins... | 0:22:55 | 0:22:56 | |
Mmm-hmm. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
..but if a thing is not mentioned in Quran, it means it is allowed. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
Yeah. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:03 | |
Not prohibited, not forbidden. | 0:23:05 | 0:23:08 | |
But it depends on the choice of your children, you are not allowed to... | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
..pressurise them to get married inside the family. | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
So this is a non-Islamic thing. | 0:23:17 | 0:23:22 | |
So would you say that, in terms of cousin marriages, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:24 | |
it's more of a cultural thing than a religious thing? | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
You know what it is? I think it has become a cultural action, | 0:23:29 | 0:23:35 | |
not religious. | 0:23:35 | 0:23:36 | |
I'm feeling very happy you started this topic. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:39 | |
Yeah. Do you think it needs to be talked about more? | 0:23:39 | 0:23:41 | |
Yeah. It's very important for our youngsters. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:46 | |
My family, and now my religion, are leaving it up to me. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:54 | |
But before I make this big decision, | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
I need to get to the bottom of the genetic issue. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
I'm just looking at the Born in Bradford Project | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
and I'm just looking at what it's about. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
Born in Bradford is a long-term study of 13,500 children born in the city | 0:24:13 | 0:24:18 | |
between 2007 and 2010, whose health is being tracked. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
Pakistanis were responsible for 3% of all births and they accounted for | 0:24:24 | 0:24:29 | |
30% of British-born children with genetic illness. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
Som all the children born in general, we're 3%, | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
and then, all the disabled children born, we're 30%. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
This shouldn't really be happening. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
That many children shouldn't be disabled, if it can be helped. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
I'm not going to lie. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:51 | |
The genetic talk scares me. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:53 | |
In my family, there's a history of acute deafness and thalassemia, | 0:24:54 | 0:24:59 | |
a potentially fatal blood disorder. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:00 | |
I now wonder if these are caused by genes passed down in our family | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
through cousin marriage. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
If so, am I a carrier? | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
To get answers, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:12 | |
I've made an appointment at the International Gene Clinic | 0:25:12 | 0:25:15 | |
with Dr Anand Saggar. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
So, tell me, how can I help you today? | 0:25:21 | 0:25:23 | |
Well, I was hoping to find out more about genetics in general | 0:25:25 | 0:25:30 | |
and what I could possibly be carrying, | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
and if it could affect me if I was to get into | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
a cousin marriage, or something like that. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:37 | |
If you're first cousins, you share 12.5% of your genes in common, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:41 | |
so therefore it's more likely, within that 12.5%, | 0:25:41 | 0:25:44 | |
you might carry the same deleterious gene. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:47 | |
Have you ever had a test to see if you are a carrier? | 0:25:47 | 0:25:50 | |
-No. -Do you understand what a carrier means? | 0:25:50 | 0:25:52 | |
Everybody's got two copies of their genes, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:56 | |
and if one is broken then it recedes and hides behind the normal copy, | 0:25:56 | 0:26:01 | |
and that's why we call it recessive. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:03 | |
But if you do meet someone who's got the same abnormal gene | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
in exactly the same place, | 0:26:06 | 0:26:08 | |
then the child might have two abnormal copies | 0:26:08 | 0:26:10 | |
and, therefore, no backup. | 0:26:10 | 0:26:12 | |
So if this couple were cousins, | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
it'd be more likely that they'd have those genes | 0:26:14 | 0:26:16 | |
that are really similar? | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
Correct, but every pregnancy's got its risks, | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
and that risk is approximately 2.5% to 3%. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:23 | |
It's just that if you marry a cousin, | 0:26:23 | 0:26:25 | |
we double that baseline risk to about 5%. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:29 | |
To me, I see that as like, 100% increase in my mind, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:33 | |
rather than seeing it as, "Oh, it's just 2% or 5%." | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
Per se, | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
there's nothing wrong with marrying a cousin, | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
but it's about the risks you take and the sharing of the genes. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:45 | |
If you do things like checking you're not a carrier for | 0:26:45 | 0:26:49 | |
thalassemia, then you're trying to minimise these risks. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:51 | |
So that's what I'm going to do. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:55 | |
-Are you ready for this? -No. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:56 | |
-Oh, dear. -Now might be a good time to mention, I hate blood tests. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:02 | |
So, I'm just going to put this around your arm here, | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
which is a bit tight. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:06 | |
My blood will be screened for 300 different genetic diseases. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
Open up your hand. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
I definitely think that if I get the results back and there's anything | 0:27:15 | 0:27:20 | |
that comes up about me having any recessive genes, | 0:27:20 | 0:27:24 | |
it will kind of... | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
..put things into perspective a bit more, and, like, | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
it will probably make me think twice about who I marry, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
because you're not just talking about marrying your cousin any more, | 0:27:33 | 0:27:36 | |
you're talking about another person that'll be brought into this. | 0:27:36 | 0:27:40 | |
It's unfair that that child might have a genetic defect | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
because of that marriage. | 0:27:44 | 0:27:46 | |
We aren't the only community at risk of passing on genetic diseases. | 0:27:48 | 0:27:51 | |
Ashkenazi Jews don't marry their cousins, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:56 | |
but they tend to marry within their religion, | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
creating a closed gene pool, much like ours. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
But the number of Ashkenazi kids born with genetic defects | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
has dropped by ... | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
over the last 20 years. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:10 | |
I want to find out how. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:13 | |
I've come to a monthly drop-in session for people who want to be tested... | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
..and all they have to do is spit. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:24 | |
You can go do it over there, you don't need to do it here. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
Igor, who's getting married next year, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:29 | |
will be tested for the nine most common genetic disorders amongst | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
Ashkenazi Jews. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:34 | |
Is that enough? | 0:28:34 | 0:28:35 | |
-A bit more. -Little bit more? | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
-I'm sorry, yeah. -All right, no problem. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:41 | |
Perfect, and then pop it in there. | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
For Hayley, who's volunteering today, | 0:28:45 | 0:28:48 | |
it's a service close to her heart. | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
My cousin actually has one of the genetic conditions on the list that | 0:28:50 | 0:28:54 | |
they're testing for today. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:55 | |
She has a lot of issues and it's a very hard life for her, | 0:28:55 | 0:28:58 | |
it's very hard for her parents to see her going through that. | 0:28:58 | 0:29:00 | |
You know, if we can eradicate these conditions, | 0:29:00 | 0:29:04 | |
then we should do everything in our power to do so, | 0:29:04 | 0:29:06 | |
so then no-one has to suffer. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:07 | |
Programmes like these save the NHS millions of pounds. | 0:29:11 | 0:29:15 | |
Treating someone with thalassemia costs £20,000 per year, | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
and for someone with severe learning disabilities, it's 50,000. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
It's definitely something I think my own Pakistani community | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
could start doing. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:31 | |
Just last month, a study in the London Borough of Redbridge | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
looking into the causes of child deaths | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
found that one in every five died because their parents were cousins. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:46 | |
Of those, half were Pakistani. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
Three weeks later, my genetic results arrive. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
MOBILE RINGS | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
-Hello. -Hi, it's Dr Saggar here. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:04 | |
-Hi. -You've been waiting for these results. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
-Yeah. -So, it's excellent news, Hiba. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
You do not carry any of the mutations that we tested for. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:14 | |
And we tested 314 diseases. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:18 | |
-And I'm all clear? -You're all clear. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
It's fantastic news. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:22 | |
VOICEOVER: It's a massive relief. | 0:30:23 | 0:30:25 | |
Genetically, there's nothing stopping me from marrying a cousin. | 0:30:25 | 0:30:29 | |
But before I make up my mind, | 0:30:29 | 0:30:31 | |
there's one thing I've been meaning to ask Mum - | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
why did her cousin marriage fail? | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
I was married to my first cousin for about 18, 20 months. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:42 | |
And it broke down, we were just not compatible, and... | 0:30:44 | 0:30:48 | |
The whole support structure thing didn't happen for me, in terms of... | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
OK, you know, you're related, and your mother-in-law's related to you, and stuff like that. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:57 | |
So, you know, | 0:30:57 | 0:30:58 | |
everyone who has spoken to me who's for cousin marriages | 0:30:58 | 0:31:02 | |
has said, "Oh, it keeps families together," | 0:31:02 | 0:31:04 | |
and "You'll have the same values if you marry your cousin," | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
but that kind of just tells me otherwise... | 0:31:08 | 0:31:13 | |
because what I do know is that... | 0:31:13 | 0:31:15 | |
..your dad didn't speak to your auntie until she basically died, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:20 | |
because of your marriage breaking down, | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
so that kind of tore that family relation apart. | 0:31:23 | 0:31:26 | |
There's two sides to that coin. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:29 | |
That support structure can work really well, | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
or it can keep you in a situation that you don't want to be in, | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
because you're being pressurised to hold that family... | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
hold the family ties together. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:43 | |
I was very lucky, in that my parents supported me fully... | 0:31:43 | 0:31:47 | |
..and I was able to get out of quite a nasty situation. | 0:31:48 | 0:31:53 | |
I'm so proud of my mum for managing to get out of that marriage | 0:31:55 | 0:31:59 | |
and going through the divorce, | 0:31:59 | 0:32:02 | |
because, in the Pakistani community, | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
it's not really a good thing to get divorced. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
It's looked down upon, especially for a woman. | 0:32:08 | 0:32:11 | |
I'm especially proud of my grandparents, as well, | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
for allowing her to do that, because, | 0:32:13 | 0:32:16 | |
usually, people from their generation | 0:32:16 | 0:32:18 | |
wouldn't allow something like that to happen, | 0:32:18 | 0:32:21 | |
especially if it was in a cousin marriage | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
that could break down a family. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:25 | |
Decision time. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
Should I go with my uncle, who's pro? | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
Dad, who's on the fence? | 0:32:32 | 0:32:34 | |
Or Mum? | 0:32:35 | 0:32:36 | |
I think ,after meeting all the people I've met and going all the | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
places I've gone, I've decided that I won't be marrying a cousin. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:48 | |
It's just not something that I'd be comfortable with. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
Like, if I weigh up the advantages and the disadvantages... | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
..the advantages don't hold a lot of weight for me, especially because... | 0:32:59 | 0:33:02 | |
..the person who's closest to me who I know who's been in a cousin | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
marriage is my mum. That didn't work out for her. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:09 | |
But I do think that if someone does want to marry their cousin, | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
I wouldn't be against it. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:15 | |
I'd say just get tested, so that you know the risks, | 0:33:17 | 0:33:21 | |
and if you're happy with the risks, then go ahead with it. | 0:33:21 | 0:33:23 | |
Just as long as you're informed, | 0:33:23 | 0:33:25 | |
and you can make a well-informed decision. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:27 | |
MUSIC: Human by Rag'n'Bone Man | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 |