Episode 3 Britain's Biggest Hoarders

This programme contains some strong language

'I'm Jasmine Harman and I've lived with my mother's compulsive 'hoarding all my life.'

I'm telling you, I'm keeping those.

If that isn't with your agreement, then we have to fall out.

'With help, my mum's made huge improvements,

'and now I want to help other hoarders around the country

'who are living in terrible conditions.'

I'm feeling desperate because I can't cope with it.

This isn't me.

This isn't me, living like this.

I am shocked.

It's literally a wall of stuff.

'These are people who have lost their homes and lives to hoarding.'

It's going to feel like you can't make it, and that's totally normal.

Do you want to spend the rest of your years with this hanging

-over you?

-I can't do it.

'I want hoarders up and down the country to realise

'they aren't alone...'

Get rid.

You can't use them so that's a good decision you've made.

I'm really proud of you.

Ohh!

'..And that with the right help, their lives can improve, too.'

Really good to have my space back.

Look what I have found!

The things that I've found and that I never actually knew that I had.

THEY LAUGH

I've got something wrong with me

which lots of other people have got, and it can be cured.

'71-year-old Wendy, who taught English to foreign students,

'has lived in this one-bedroom house in South London for 24 years.'

This used to be such a nice room.

There's a settee under there and a bed under there.

When you get a certain amount of clutter and stuff hoarded,

it becomes an almost insurmountable task, which anybody will tell you.

I feel very ashamed, really. I mean, I must admit.

'Wendy's house is packed to the rafters with bags and boxes,

'a bathroom full of clothes, a bedroom

'so stacked with belongings that only a sliver of bed remains...

'..and a living room almost submerged by clutter.'

There's a heater there that's broken that I've got to take back.

Don't know where the receipt is.

'Wendy lives alone, but her best friend, Giovanni,

'is a regular visitor.'

Everything is difficult here, you know, but...

-Cos of the clutter.

-What can I do?

We have, you know, arguments but, if you like, you know...

I don't argue.

-..small arguments.

-I don't argue, you do.

-I forgot, you know, because she's in... She interferes.

-Interrupts.

'Wendy has a particular attachment to the newspapers she's been

'collecting for 17 years.'

I'm very possessive about the newspapers.

If they all went, just imagine how much space I'd have.

I wouldn't believe it. I think, will I ever look at them again? It's true.

I don't how to throw things away, you know. I don't.

'Wendy's friends, workmates and neighbours have tried to help

'her clear her hoard before but haven't been successful.

'She's contacted me to see if I can help.'

Hello, Wendy.

Now you see, Jasmine, that is my main problem.

Under there, I've got a computer.

I've got a wardrobe of clothes that I haven't looked at at least 15 years.

They're probably all eaten up by a moth.

I had a cat in there for three days and I had mice in there.

They climbed up the wall. I didn't even know the cat was there.

You see these? They're probably quite valuable. They're a large size.

-I don't know where I got them from. Don't ever ask me!

-They're huge!

-I know but...

-But what are they for?

-Well, they're football boots, aren't they?

-No, but why have you got them?

I don't know. Don't ask me why I've got anything!

It's like Christmas every day.

When I work with the Kosovans and the refugees in Wimbledon,

where I work now, the asylum seekers, I was in charge of the shoes

and the clothes, right?

I was bringing stuff back that was being chucked out,

and I was bringing it back here.

This is largely why, for about at least six years,

I was bringing stuff back.

'As well as the items from her charity work, Wendy, an only child,

'says she inherited much of her hoard

'after her aunt and mother died.'

The trouble about my mother was that being born in the War,

she would never throw anything away.

So every drawer in the house was full of things that would have

a use for it.

So you've still got all that stuff?

-To be honest, I don't know what I've got.

-You don't know?

-So do you think that is learned behaviour?

-It's ingrained in me.

I don't know if other people are like this,

but when I see something, I don't want to get rid of it.

I might not look at it for ten years. It's this sort of mentality...

Mother there, "Don't throw that away! It'll be useful." You know?

'I've met so many hoarders who feel their hoarding comes from a parent.

'And it often makes the condition even harder to tackle.'

-Have you ever tried to...

-Help her?

-..to clear up or to help?

Yeah, to help her sort things out or let go of some things?

I tried for a long time and I've given up.

And, you know, I just say, "Well." Yeah, you know. What can you do?

Her future... I mean, she's still 70, 71.

She's still fit but, you know, obviously,

she's not getting any younger.

So I think she should do something about it.

Is it empty? Ow!

Ooh dear!

'It's not always been like this for Wendy.

'Her career started as a medical secretary before her talent as

'a linguist took her into teaching, where she lived and worked abroad.

'Now, she wants to regain the life

'she feels she's lost to her hoarding.'

-Hello.

-Wendy, how lovely to meet you.

-I'm really looking forward to this.

-Would you like some fruitcake?

-So you're the clutter lady?

-I'm the clutter lady, yeah.

You got a problem on your hands here, I tell you!

'I've brought professional de-clutterer, Heather Matuozzo,

'along to see if she can help give Wendy a plan to start clearing.'

One of the things I can't stand is lack of space. I need freedom.

-The irony!

-I get claustrophobic in here. I can't...

I'm not surprised, Wendy.

I come in and I want to do it, and I don't know where to start.

Let's say we've solved the problem of space,

-so you've got somewhere to sort.

-G had some...

You had some quite interesting suggestions of how some stuff

could move around here?

Well, take it to a bigger place for her to look through all the...

You know, that for her to feel more comfortable to take a look at

all the stuff and maybe, you know, hopefully, get rid of some of it.

So we find a space, we take the stuff out and put it in the space,

and then you sit there and sort through it and decide where it goes.

Oh, yeah. That's so easy.

I've always said, if I had more space... I mean, I can do that.

'Wendy agrees to us

'hiring a warehouse space for her to sort through her possessions.

'When my mum did this, it was a really effective,

'but incredibly difficult, experience.'

She's a very clever lady, very articulate, very intelligent,

but she doesn't pause for breath when she's telling you her stories.

And she doesn't answer questions because her mind goes off on a

completely different tangent because she's got so much going on in there.

And I think that is a reflection of the state of the house

affecting the state of what's going on in her head and vice versa.

The two affect each other.

'80 miles away in Northamptonshire,

'the local environmental health team has told me about another hoarder.'

This might be a bit difficult.

Right.

'Laurence is a repeat offender.

'After complaints four years ago,

'the council cleared several skips of clutter from his home.

'Now, they're threatening a second clearance

'because he's back in the same mess.'

This big TV is something I picked up, I was going to repair,

but really needs to move out of the room.

All this is sort of accumulation over a...

..over quite a long... Oh, I don't know, a period of time.

A lot of it is rubbish, unfortunately.

'Laurence has no access to his kitchen or dining room,

'and the rest of the home he bought 12 years ago has a thick

'layer of rubbish on the floor.

'He has dozens of electrical appliances, which he

'had planned to fix, but now sit abandoned amongst the rubbish.'

And this is the hallway.

Into the hallway.

It goes down there to a little conservatory in the back which,

unfortunately, again is... That one is floor-to-ceiling high.

You know, and people say, "Why don't you just do a bin bag of rubbish a day?"

But it's... It just doesn't... Doesn't seem that easy to do.

It should be, but it doesn't seem that easy to do.

I've had enough of living in a mess.

'If the council carry out their threat to clear

'the clutter from Laurence's home, he will have to bear the cost.'

-Hello.

-Hello.

-I'm Jasmine.

-Hi, Jasmine.

-It hasn't always been like this, has it?

-Oh, no.

Tell me about what happened the last time you cleared out.

Umm...

Well, I had some help

and we cleared... Most of this room was practically clear.

I just need to start again, refresh. I can't live like this any more.

-So I've been going on too long.

-It seems to me that you...

You are at the stage where you really don't

enjoy this environment...

-No.

-..but you just sort of feel a bit overwhelmed...

-Definitely.

-..and don't know how to tackle it...

-Exactly.

..cos it's a mountain of stuff and, you know, it won't be easy.

'Like Wendy, life used to be very different for Laurence.

'He, too, worked abroad for many years as a salesman and tour guide.

'An extrovert,

'he regularly demonstrated kitchenware at trade

'shows in front of hundreds of people until a few years ago

'when a bout of depression kicked off his hoarding.'

Tell me about the real Laurence.

What kind of place does he really live in?

Probably not here.

Somewhere where I can move about without so much clutter and rubbish.

So I can move about freely. Umm...

Not just this room but, I mean, the whole... Be able to

get into the kitchen and use the cooker, which I can't at the moment.

'The kitchen is the room Laurence feels most ashamed of.

'It takes a lot of courage for him to even show me

'behind the curtain he's put up to conceal it.'

I know how difficult this is for you to show me this kitchen but...

That's awful. It's not me. I can't get in there.

I'm telling you, Laurence, yes, OK, this is a mess.

-But we can help you with it. This is not...

-Can I put this down now?

-You can put it down.

-It's bad for me.

-Yeah, it's bad. I agree with you.

It's bad.

But it's not as though it has to stay like that for ever.

'Laurence is now just a shadow of the man I can see he once was.

'Clearing won't get rid of his depression,

'but it would be a start.'

What are your priorities with this?

Is it getting things sorted out inside, in your head,

or is actually getting the house sorted out?

Everything. Everything.

All the stuff that Laurence has gathered around him

is like a comfort blanket.

He's almost made a little nest for himself.

So if you just take all that away, it's like stripping him bare.

And if you don't replace it with some other kind of comfort,

then there'll always be that tendency to bring it all back,

as has happened before.

To get the house cleared would be one major thing off my worries

in life, to be able to move about and not step on things all the time.

At least that would be one step nearer to a normal life, maybe.

'In South London, it's two weeks since Wendy agreed she'd move

'some of her hoard out of the house and into a warehouse.

'Today's the big day, but getting started is proving difficult.'

Can I just explain something to you that you might not realise,

is that what you're anticipating happening is actually not

going to be as bad as you think it's going to be?

So just know, it's going to be uncomfortable,

it may even be painful, but you will come out the other side.

As long as I don't lose things.

You can stay exactly as you are, if you want to.

Honestly, I mean, I don't...

If it's going to tip your over the edge, don't do it.

But I can genuinely say, from experience,

that what you're thinking, how you're thinking it's going to

feel, it's not actually going to feel as bad as all that.

I'm quite excited, in a certain way, especially upstairs

cos I've made such chaos up there. It's going to be easy.

Once I start going through things, I just don't realise how much I've got.

'We'd agreed that the entire contents of her living room would

'go to the warehouse, but now,

'Wendy is trying to control what can be moved

'and what must stay at home.'

Anything like this, I don't want to go.

-I want this to go in the bathroom.

-So hold on.

What you want is for us

to just move this stuff all around the house rather than taking it out?

No, no, no. I don't want any material things going into the warehouse,

like the curtains. I'll watch you as you do it.

There's no point us filling up the bathroom, Wendy,

cos then you won't... Then you'll be in a muddle in the bathroom.

No, no, no. Those are not going into the warehouse!

-They're going in the bathroom cos I'll sort that...

-Why?

The bathroom doesn't matter!

The bathroom is clothes, and I'm not sorting...

-The bathroom is clothes, but it's a bathroom!

-It doesn't matter.

-I'm used to it.

-And you can't get in the bath!

-Well, I'll get in the bath eventually.

-Oh, nice.

Why don't you like the idea of the clothes going to the warehouse to be sorted?

-Oh, Jasmine, don't ask me, please.

-OK, fine.

-It's not necessary.

SHOUTS: I told you, the clothes are in the bathroom!

Can I have some more camomile tea?

Yes, we'll put the clothes upstairs in the bathroom like you've asked,

but I want you to be aware that there are other alternatives

to the way you're doing things.

Because it hasn't worked so far.

It might be for other people, but not for me at the moment, Jasmine!

-SHOUTS: Please don't go on at me any more! Leave things as they are.

-OK.

'I think everybody that hoards has a need to be in control

'and a need to use the things that they've got.

'They've got them for a reason. They can see value in them.'

But it's...

I think it's even more difficult with Wendy,

because she's absolutely adamant that there is no other way.

But can you clean later, once everything is sorted?

-Then you clean it.

-I want to clean the Hoover before I take it out.

I mean, you went through this with your mother.

I did, and my mum was having psychiatric treatment.

-She was on antidepressants, she was having a psychologist once a week.

-Well, I'm not.

And I don't need psychiatrists, because it just screws me up.

It brings back the past of my mother,

and I don't want the past to come back. What's the point?

-Is this not the past all around you?

-Psychosynthesis...

-I mean, I'm not going to start analysing you, because I know you don't like it.

-Yeah, just tell me.

-What I mean is, for you...

-Don't expect me to change.

-No, I don't.

What I'm saying is, Wendy has got a little bit of tunnel vision

-and that it might be good to take the blinkers off.

-Probably more than a little.

It might be good to take the blinkers off and just say,

"Oh, OK, these people are trying to help me. They've made a suggestion.

"I could try it and see how it goes."

D-d-d-don't tear that cloth!

You've torn it!

You've torn it. It's probably rotting because it's sat there for years.

That's my nice picture there.

'Wendy wins the battle to move her clothes to the bathroom,

'but paperwork, boxes full of clutter

'and newspapers are moving out.'

'At the end of the day, I'm sure she'll be happy with that.'

Hopefully, cos she's my friend.

-Aww!

-She's my friend.

I'm feeling desperate, because I can't cope with it.

I just realised that's the story of my life, my childhood - not coping.

You know, it's something in here and in me.

I'm not strong like you think I am. I appear to be,

and even having people in the house putting things in boxes,

I don't know where anything is.

I don't know what I've got. There's so much of it, just for one room.

And the bedroom, there's three times more stuff in there.

For all hoarders, the thought of losing their possessions is traumatic, but for Laurence,

with an enforced clearance hanging over him, there's little choice.

Videos?

-Oh, no, throw them or recycle them, I suppose.

-OK.

But nobody really wants videos these days.

What are we going to do that, then?

-Skip?

-Yeah, I guess.

Skip, please.

Rubbish.

We've hired a skip, and Laurence's hoard will be

separated into what's recyclable and what can be binned.

OK.

-Two TVs down.

-Brilliant.

-Several to go!

-THEY LAUGH

'But even with the threat of a huge bill from a forced clearance,

'Laurence is still struggling to let go of some of his broken electrical appliances.'

It might be repairable and usable,

and I've already committed certain monies to getting the door.

What you have to think about is,

what's your track record of doing that?

Are you going to be hindering yourself more than what

that could be worth to you if it's fixed?

-And weight it up. Then you make the decision. Up to you.

-It's difficult.

-This is the only thing...

-Is this the only one?

-This is the only...

Well, there's the tumble dryer.

The tumble dryer and that would be the only one.

And there's a dishwasher in there as well.

'While it seems like the clearout is coming easy to Laurence,

'it just takes one memory of his former life to remind him

'how bad things have become.'

What's amazing is you've been travelling around overseas

exhibiting and selling at the equivalent of the Ideal Home Show.

-Yeah, I worked at the Ideal Home Show in London for eight years.

-Did you?

Selling various products, yeah.

VOICE CRACKS: Bringing tears back to my eyes again.

People see me out and about and they think, "Oh, there's nothing wrong."

Unfortunately, there has been.

To have got in a state like this, it's not normal, and it's not me.

But here we are, hopefully doing something about it.

Hopefully we are doing something about it.

-It's a big step.

-Yeah.

When I look at Laurence, I just think...

he doesn't relate to any of this.

And just finding that photograph, you know, you can see who he was.

He had a responsible job, you know, he's lived abroad,

he's done loads of things with his life.

For him to have ended up like this is really, really sad.

He shuts that front door and hides in here and it's like he's

almost shut the front door on his emotions at the same time.

And now, it's like we've opened the floodgates.

It's all coming spilling out emotionally and physically.

So, it's a time of huge change for Laurence.

One day in, and Laurence has made a good dent in his hold.

He's been here before,

so we need to make sure this time he doesn't slip back.

Rubbish.

When we get it back to a normal, liveable state,

I am sure I am going to feel 100% better.

Today, yes, I do feel a little bit better,

but there's still a way to go.

Yeah, what we've done today has been brilliant. A good start.

Now, what about this? I guess you don't want it any more?

Great.

He's starting to uncover

and take off all these layers that he's built up around him.

I think he's kind of enjoying it.

Just being able to release the emotions

and to talk about the past and think that he's got a future ahead of him.

In south London,

we're slowly relocating Wendy's downstairs hoard to the warehouse.

'But today, she's decided to take some of her vast

'collection of clothes - and some more from a friend - to charity.'

How long has it taken you to get those two cases ready to go to...?

Well, ten years, really. I haven't looked through them for ten years.

'Wendy does a huge amount of good work of charity,

'volunteering to help refugees and donating clothes,

'but my worry is that it doesn't help her hoarding,

'allowing her to sort endlessly while not tackling her problem.'

-Wendy wants to go through that stuff.

-It won't take a minute.

-No, it won't take a minute.

Does she need to go through it or do you take anything?

-We'll take it. We'll happily take it.

-I just want to see what's here.

I was just putting things as to what they are.

Trousers are together, shirts together.

I just want to see what's here. It's obvious what I'm doing, isn't it?

No, because all these are probably bags of mixed stuff waiting to be sorted.

Yeah, but I... Jasmine, for goodness' sake.

Isn't it obvious what I'm doing? You really get...

No, I just wasn't sure if you were sorting them into things that were going

and things that were going somewhere else or coming back to your house.

See, once I get going, I'm very speedy.

It would be speedier to just leave them. I know I'm annoying you.

-I realise I'm annoying you and I'm sorry.

-No, I'm interested.

I'm a very organised person, Jasmine, you'll see that.

Oh, look, brand-new socks.

'After a three-hour round-trip and endless arguments over

'parting with her clothes, we finally get back home with two empty suitcases.'

'In one sense, it was great, because she let some stuff go.

'That's really good and I really want to encourage that.'

But in the other sense,

if that's how we have to get rid of everything,

it's too time-consuming.

It's too labour-intensive.

And I don't see how we can really make a huge impact

if everything has got to be done in that way.

'It's hard to watch Wendy wrestle with her hoard.

'Her resistance so reminds me of my mum's struggle to clear her hoard from our home.

'Thankfully, after many years, my mum did change.

'But for some hoarders, that never happens.

'I've been contacted by two sisters who have spent a lifetime

'living with their mother's hoarding.'

-This door here, you couldn't get to.

-Where did it lead to?

Another room, which was full.

Couldn't even get up the stairs, could we?

Couldn't get up the stairs.

Chris and Maggie grew up in a military family.

They had many moves throughout their childhood,

with the family eventually settling in Hampshire.

When their parents separated in the 1970s, their mum Sheila began to hoard,

and her house became increasingly difficult to live in.

But as with many hoarders, few people knew.

To those people who didn't know she had a problem and who had no

knowledge of her other life,

which she hid very well...

She put up a very good smokescreen,

but she was a really good fun lady. She loved partying.

She just didn't like throwing things away.

She had in her head that they were going to have this dream home,

so she was always collecting wallpaper and lamp shades.

-Curtains.

-Curtains was...

-Hundreds of pairs of curtains and carpets.

-For the dream home?

-For the dream home.

One year, I took her two grandsons down to try and remove some stuff

from the garage, because it was just so full you couldn't get in there.

And as we tried to get a very, very old rotten carpet

out into the car to take to the tip, she physically became ill.

You know, we're talking about an elderly lady who was having

to climb over goodness knows what.

Her heating wasn't working properly

because the plumber couldn't get to the pipes.

It was very sad, really,

because if she hadn't had this hoarding syndrome,

for want of a better word,

it's my belief that she'd still be here today.

Towards the end of her life, Sheila was suffering from anaemia

and unable to eat because of an infected tooth.

Her hoarding meant she was confined to living in a small space in her

kitchen, sleeping at the table or on the floor amongst rotting rubbish.

The outcome was she had to be admitted to the medical hospital

so they could carry out some more tests.

She wasn't even in there 24 hours.

But...

-..she died in a clean room with clean sheets.

-And people who cared.

And she said thank you to them.

She said thank you to them, half an hour before he died.

All she wanted was her family near her, to come

and stay, grandchildren to come and stay.

She'd got all these rooms in her house, but they couldn't get in them.

It's a little bit like somebody who's got an alcohol problem

or a drug problem, where they eventually have to admit that this

isn't really what they want, and that there's help out there.

It's like they've lived my worst nightmare.

They've lived the worst nightmare

of any family member of a hoarder.

Nobody deserves to end their days unhappy...

..living in a home where they can't function, that's dirty,

that's jam-packed, so they can't move.

Nobody deserves that.

'I firmly believe that it was the therapy my mum received,

'alongside the practical help, that set her on the road to recovery.'

'I want Wendy to be given the chance, too,

'so I've asked clinical psychologist Professor Paul Salkovskis

'to meet her.'

So, which room's this? Bathroom? Toilet? Toilet, OK.

'Wendy's told me she doesn't want to rake up the past,

'but I'm worried she won't make any progress without understanding

'why she began hoarding.'

I left home when I was 18.

I went to the French Lycee Secretarial College,

sent to boarding school when I was 17

because I was always a problem to my mother,

and then I worked in a stockbrokers', and then I went to Nigeria.

And I lived in flats in London.

I'm going to interrupt you.

Do you find that your thoughts are jumping around a lot?

Oh, I always do.

Is that always the case for you?

When I think of one thing,

then I start thinking of something else.

You're having problems putting things in order

in your own mind, aren't you, a bit?

Trouble is, I'm a perfectionist.

And when I tell you something, I have to tell you the whole story.

Whole story, OK, all the details.

Basically, my mother...

Every drawer and every cupboard was full of stuff from the war.

That's what I'm telling you, wartime.

Never touch anything, never throw anything away.

It's so ingrained in me.

But you've been obeying that ever since.

It's just the way I am, you know.

It's just the way you are?

No, what I mean is...

Don't you choose a bit about who you are?

What I mean is I've never thrown things away all my life,

I don't know how to do it.

What you've just told me was that your mother...

I've got all my diaries from ten years,

because in seven years' time I'll be able to use that diary again.

You're drowning in detail, aren't you?

You're really drowning in detail here.

I told you, I always go into detail.

You're drowning in detail, and I don't quite...

I'm drowning in everything around me, aren't I?

I know, it's the same thing. I actually think there's a connection.

I don't actually think that's very funny for you.

Well, it's not funny, no.

Some of this is about how painful it is.

I think the detail that you're going in is blocking off

some of how you feel.

Whenever we talk about anything that might be about how you feel,

you laugh it off, or you go into the detail,

you go off at another tangent.

Mmm.

I think, all my life, I've shut it out.

What was the feeling that you were shutting out?

I mean, I'm guessing there's going to be feelings of loneliness.

Well, if you don't relate to people...

That's a problem you have? You have difficulty relating to people?

Well, in all reality,

I've probably never really come to terms with anything in my life,

really, because I've always felt out of it,

I've always felt different, I've always felt ostracised.

I always feel I've been misunderstood all my life.

Mmm.

But, Wendy, you're still living with it,

and this is one of the ways you're living with it.

Yeah, probably, the clutter is my life.

The clutter is your life.

Yeah, OK, there is a good way of putting it,

and is that what you want?

Do you want this clutter to be your life?

Of course not.

-What's the outcome to that?

-I don't know.

I can't change now at 71.

I don't believe you can't change. I believe you can change this.

You're trapped in a number of ways.

Some of it is in here,

being trapped in here by some of the things you've had to go through.

And it tumbles out, it tumbles out.

Actually, as you say that, there was a lot of pain there.

The reason that you're thinking the way you're thinking is

because you're trying very hard not to sink

beneath the surface of what you're really feeling.

I don't know what I kept those for.

That's hoarding, isn't it?

2001. Crikey.

'In Northamptonshire, a week into his clearance,

'and Lawrence is making real progress.'

'With Heather's help, he's grasping the opportunity to change

'and take responsibility for himself.'

Have you got a telly that works?

Yeah, I've got a telly that works.

Why do you need another one?

Well, I don't. But...

Come on, let's get rid of it.

To keep the momentum going, a couple of friends are here to help.

The great unveiling.

The great unveiling.

Just start there.

OK.

Right. Plastic, recycling.

Aaargh!

Another pipe!

Yeah, throw that one.

- Lawrence's situation is a perfect example

of a lot of people that I see.

They have lost their way,

they become paralysed by their belongings, they've over-acquired,

for whatever reason, usually to make them feel better.

But with help, once you make a start, that's what it is.

It's breaking the back of silence, isolation, shame,

and once that happens, it's just magical, really.

I've just got to the stage where enough is enough,

and I want my house back, I want my space back,

I want to be able to live, I want to be able to use the kitchen.

It's gone.

A piece of my life, in some respects,

but not a piece of my life I want to remember, really.

'In South London, after four days of shuttling vanloads

'from Wendy's house to the warehouse,

'even a knee injury won't stop her seeing her ground-floor

'possessions laid out for the first time.'

Right.

Oh, my God. Is that all my stuff?

Here we are.

That's just one room!

What's that metal thing over there?

A big pot, by the look of it.

-Is that mine?

-Yeah.

Where did that come from?

I don't know. Somewhere in your house.

Extraordinary. I tell you, half the things in here I won't recognise.

You haven't done the bedroom yet.

There's far more in the bedroom than there was in the sitting room.

Are you surprised at how much there is here?

Absolutely amazed. This is only the sitting room?

20 years.

'Immediately, it becomes clear just how painstakingly meticulous

'Wendy is when it comes to sorting through her hoard.'

-Can you give me another small box or bag?

-Another one?

These are the things that I'll take home and go through

when I'm watching telly.

'And that there's one collection

'which is going to be a real wrench for her.'

I'd love if you give me some newspapers.

OK.

I need about...

..eight, nine, ten.

I need at least ten pallets of newspapers

for a papier-mache sculpture I'm making.

Are you serious? Come on.

Come on. Pull the other leg.

Oh, my goodness, Jasmine.

I feel great, because I've got space around me.

How come you like space when you're not at home,

but you're not sure about it when you are at home?

-Because, I just said, that feeling, just this space.

-But it's nice?

Nothing in it. Oh, it's fantastic.

It's necessary. Look, that's a house I nearly bought in Putney.

I wanted to move.

Wendy needs to work really slowly. I mean, it's going to take an age.

I don't even know how it's going to happen.

Because right now, the little bit of paperwork that she was sorting,

all of it's gone back into boxes to go back into the house to be sorted.

Don't put anything in any bag without me seeing it, please.

I'm not saying I'm going to keep it, but I just want to see what's there.

Look! There's a John Williams CD box in the rubbish, Max!

'A week into sorting in the warehouse,

'and Wendy is still struggling to part with any of her possessions.'

'She's going through everything in detail,

'and not addressing the pressing issue of the newspapers.'

If you could let go of this in one go...

What does one go mean?

Like you said, "OK, it's all going. Just bring the van in.

-"It's all going."

-No.

-If you could...

-No, not yet, not yet.

'And by the end of the day, it begins to overwhelm her.'

-Listen...

-I don't know where all this came from!

I've never seen these things before!

But if you've never seen them before,

then don't bother looking through them.

I've got to look through them.

You haven't. I'll look through them for you.

If you haven't seen them,

and you don't have any attachment to them, then I can sort them for you.

You don't have to do it.

It's only things you recognise.

'Before she's finished sorting through the warehouse, Wendy decides

'to divert her attention to the clutter upstairs in her house.'

'But, as ever, she is captivated by her possessions.'

"Conscientious, with an eye for detail." That's me.

"Now seeking a career restart opportunity

"using newly-acquired computer skills."

I think that's quite a good CV, isn't it?

Oh, letters to people I never sent. Now that's a typical thing of me.

Oh, my God! Jigsaw puzzle.

Oh, look at that!

Isn't that amazing?

Oh!

It's too small.

Oh!

Well, now, I mean, and then I find something beautiful like this,

and, of course, maybe it is the whole thing worthwhile.

I don't know.

This place smells.

So do you.

Everything smells in this house, according to you.

You don't have to help. It's better if you don't.

There's another armchair here.

I know there's another armchair here.

-You know I've got two armchairs.

-Are you going to keep it?

-Of course.

-Oh, fuck!

'If Wendy's going to make progress at home,

'she's going to have to make some tough calls about her possessions.'

I'm just worried now. I'm worried. I didn't know all this stuff was here.

I mean, it's an absolute nightmare to me.

I'm beginning to almost despair.

It's so much worse than I could have ever imagined.

'Although clearing can bring trauma for a hoarder, sometimes

'the space that's left behind is just as difficult to deal with.'

'Lawrence's efforts have averted a clearance from the council,

'but I want to find out how he's coping mentally.'

It's been very hard, the last couple of weeks.

Has your depression reared up again?

Yeah, big time.

Really?

Mmm.

Are you feeling worse, more depressed now, than you were before?

Erm, no.

I don't know. No, I don't think so, no.

OK, well, that's good.

Yeah.

That is a good step, and in the last two weeks,

when you been feeling down, and unmotivated, you've maintained it.

I've managed to keep the place clear, yeah.

Yes! Good!

That's brilliant!

And made sure that I put it in a rubbish bag.

Brilliant.

So, I would think about ideas, not just for the clearing part of it,

but for everything, you know.

How you're going to get Lawrence back.

Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's the next step, as it were.

The thing is, with Lawrence, I wonder if he thought, before,

"The mess goes, and all my problems will go."

Now that the house is largely clear...

..and the problems inside, the emotional upsets,

the lack of motivation, that kind of thing...

..might still be there.

So we have to also work towards getting some systems

in place for him, some support networks, you know.

Something to keep Lawrence upbeat,

get him out of bed in the morning, and some self-esteem.

'I've arranged for him to see clinical psychologist

'Dr Victoria Bream Oldfield,

'to see if she can give him a plan to deal with this spiral.'

The bad feeling is that I haven't done any more,

and I feel quite guilty about not, I don't know, it seems that

I get up, I watch television, and go to bed, and that's it.

And I shouldn't be doing that.

I should be carrying on with the clearing of my bedroom

and the back room and the second bedroom.

Right. It sounds like you are being very tough on yourself,

and you are feeling bad, and in your experience, how easy is it to get

difficult things done when you're feeling bad and beating yourself up?

-Not very easy, really, at all.

-No, no.

If you're the same as everyone else then yeah, that's the case.

If you get out of bed in the morning and berate yourself

and are tough on yourself,

that's going to lessen the chances of you getting everything else done.

Mmm.

And I guess that's a really important thing

that we need to take forward.

How are you feeling just now?

Because you're looking pretty troubled.

Upset, again.

Yeah. What were you thinking about just then?

Was it something I said that touched a nerve?

Not maybe being able to get up at all until very late, in the afternoon.

Yeah.

And I feel bad about that, as well.

I guess maybe what we can be on the lookout for

is what's keeping that going,

and if there's anything we can start to do that's going to help you

to feel a bit more able to get out of bed in the morning,

and start doing things in your day that are going to keep

your spirits up a bit, keep you feeling a bit

more like there's something enjoyable you're doing in the day,

and something where you can feel a bit of that sense of achievement

and satisfaction of having done something,

in your house or elsewhere,

other things that you want to be getting on with in your life.

Does that sound a reasonable suggestion?

Yeah.

'I think Lawrence will gain a huge amount from ongoing therapy.'

'He's just at the start of his long recovery from hoarding.'

'Wendy's progress on the same journey seems to have stalled.

'After a month of micro-sorting in the warehouse,

'what remains is due to come home today.'

'To make space for her newly sorted possessions to return,

'she needs to let some things here go.'

'I've come to make one last appeal.'

It's always going to be difficult. It was the same with my mum.

The day that we had to get out, it was so stressful, it was,

you know, there were tears.

It was a nightmare.

But I think if I can only help Wendy to see that, actually,

letting go will be pleasurable,

actually, she would gain so much.

She's got to think about what she's gaining,

not what she thinks she's losing.

Actually all she's losing is stuff that weighs her down.

Hi, Wendy.

-Oh, hello, Jasmine.

-How are you?

Well, I don't want to answer that question.

I'm surviving.

Surviving.

I'm not as young as I was, and I can't cope.

I'm here to help.

This is my aunt's clothes from the 1950s.

And what do you want done with them?

They go in the bath.

Really?

Well, because this room's got to be cleared to bring stuff into.

It'll all have to be piled up again on here.

Is that really what you want to do, Wendy? Pile everything back up?

I don't know.

I can see that it's a lot of stress.

No, this has all got to go upstairs.

OK.

'Wendy is adamant that nothing more can go from the house,

'despite desperately needing to make space for what's coming back.'

How can I help you now?

Just stuff things in bags.

Stuff things in bags.

I actually...

All I'm doing now is making space. Making space.

I feel bad just throwing everything in bags.

Don't feel bad about anything.

I do, because...

Well, don't!

It's just making the situation more...

I've got to put boxes in here, and they can't go in here,

when all this junk is on the table! I'm just trying to make space.

Why can't you see that?

All right, all right.

God Almighty!

I'm sorry.

I'm just saying I would rather we didn't have to put them all in...

Don't say it, because otherwise I get upset.

I don't know what I'm allowed to say.

I don't want to do this either, Jasmine. I don't want to do this.

Do you really think I want to do this myself?

Of course I don't, but there's no alternative!

I just can't have it any more!

It's very difficult.

This is not a solution, just putting everything into bags

and throwing it in the corner, or putting it on the bed.

That's probably how it started 20 years ago.

'The final trip to the warehouse can't be put off any longer.'

'There is some light.'

'After struggling for weeks to let go of her single biggest hoard,

'the bags upon bags of newspapers,

'Wendy's asked us to get rid of them.'

'After blocking her hallway and dominating the house for 17 years,

'at the warehouse, they're packed up and ready to go.'

Wendy, that's pretty amazing.

What's pretty amazing?

All of that newspaper sorted to go.

The newspapers, the newspapers.

I was amazed that she just didn't bat an eyelash

when those newspapers went.

I thought there might be some drama or other,

but nothing.

'Getting rid of her precious newspapers will create

'much-needed space at Wendy's, and she's managed to part

'with about a third of the rest of her possessions in the warehouse.'

'She's made progress, but the echoes of her past are never far away.'

This is the record of my birth, and everything that happened to me.

My mother was such a perfectionist.

"Very cheerful, happy child. Always loved going places."

"Very mischievous into everything. Always made a fuss of."

"Loved air raids, until we got a bomb."

"From then on, got frequent nightmares."

"She got turned out of one place after another,

"and each time we moved, she got worse."

"I got very bitter about it all, as especially said

"she wouldn't get better until we really settled down."

I wanted to read that, but my mother never told me that.

She was a very, very fastidious, good, kind woman, my mother,

but there was no love between us, I'm afraid.

There's masses of things all about my childhood.

Well, I'm sure you can enjoy reading through all that,

now you've rediscovered it.

'The month in the warehouse has been really tough for Wendy,

'but by letting her newspapers go, and engaging with the past,

'I think she's taken a big step forward.'

It has been funny at times, stressful at times.

Heartbreaking at times.

But this is...

It's a work in progress. I just hope that Wendy feels like...

..some progress has been made, and that she will keep going with it.

I just don't want to find that she's stagnated, nothing's changed.

She's been intending to do things with all these

possessions for decades.

We'll see.

'When I met Lawrence four months ago, he was at his wit's end.'

'His house was full of rubbish and old electrical appliances.'

'Now I've come, for one last time, to check on his progress.'

I'm excited! I've heard good things.

Uh-huh?

-Right.

-Oh, my God.

It looks almost like a proper front room.

You can sit down, you've got space.

Yeah, got a little bit of sorting out to do.

So that's stuff that you're keeping.

Yeah, just needs to go through.

Are you ready for this? This will be a big shock, I think.

Oh!

I was going to move that, but...

This is amazing. So how's it been, having a working kitchen?

It's great, fantastic.

I've got my microwave,

and I've got my other cooker with the two hotplates there that I use.

Yeah, it's great, fantastic.

Come and have a look down here.

I've actually never been beyond that point before.

Oh!

Yeah, it's fantastic, having my space back.

I mean, obviously, when I get...

I hope I can get it even better than it is at the moment.

Of course you can.

Have you been able to get on with anything

when you haven't had other people here, or other people coming round?

I hate to say I haven't done anything.

I haven't been able to do anything. Why is that? I don't know.

Depression? I just haven't managed to...

Motivate yourself.

Yeah, motivate myself.

I mean, as we spoke to Victoria and she said,

-"Well, don't beat yourself up."

-Exactly.

But I do beat myself up,

because I feel guilty that I haven't done anything on my own.

We've been talking right from the start about getting the old

Lawrence back, but I think even in reinventing the new Lawrence

is probably even better, because things have changed,

and you've had a lot of different experiences.

Yeah.

And really, the world is your oyster.

'For Lawrence, clearing his hoard is just the start of the journey

'to discovering what life could be with a proper home to live in.'

'In south London, two months after we moved her possessions back from

'the warehouse, Wendy is at home, and I've come for one final visit.'

Wendy?

-Yes?

-Hi!

Hello.

I reckon, in here, Wendy,

there's probably about 70% less than the was the first time I came here.

Yes.

Because, do you remember, it was just a tiny gap.

Yes, I know, I know.

You couldn't get. There was a little, tiny bit of...

-Yes, I know.

-It's amazing!

Oh, Wendy.

'There's still a lot of stuff at Wendy's,

'but she's made a start, which is often the hardest step of all.'

The thing is, as long as I can get to bed...

Exactly! I mean, you can actually get into bed.

Before, it was up to here, and it was up to the ceiling.

I honestly never expected you to let go of so much stuff!

All those newspapers, all the clothes that have gone.

Well, actually, Giovanni was flabbergasted,

the day I let the newspapers go.

He really was speechless. He couldn't believe it.

'And her best friend Giovanni is doing his bit to keep her going

'with regular encouragement.'

"You've done well so far, but only for..."

"But only for your sake, and remember,

"you can never take your stuff with you for ever."

"Love, G."

Do you know, that is a true friend, who is saying to you, do it,

because actually, you can't take this stuff with you.

Your sake, he said, it's for your sake. Not for his sake.

You don't care about his sake!

You have to do it for your own sake, nobody else.

I think, for somebody who just felt they were worthless,

now she's starting to acknowledge her successes.

All of the hoarders I've met,

they feel ostracised from their families and from society.

But actually, what they need is not judgement, they need support,

and with the right support, miracles can happen.

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