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British-born Jane Seymour is an award-winning Hollywood actress | 0:00:06 | 0:00:10 | |
and lives in Malibu, California. | 0:00:10 | 0:00:12 | |
She shot to fame as Bond girl Solitaire in Live And Let Die, | 0:00:16 | 0:00:20 | |
and went on to star as Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
Jane has played many historical figures, | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
including Wallis Simpson, Marie Antoinette | 0:00:26 | 0:00:29 | |
and a Jewish mother fleeing the Nazis | 0:00:29 | 0:00:32 | |
in the drama series War And Remembrance. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:36 | |
There is nothing more important in my life than family. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
I have six children and four grandchildren, which is amazing. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:45 | |
You ready? There you go, you took a picture of Uncle. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
Good girl, Willa. | 0:00:48 | 0:00:50 | |
My mother was from Holland. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:52 | |
My father's family came from Poland and they were Jewish. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
And my real name was Joyce Penelope Wilhelmina Frankenberg. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
My agent made me change it and we came up with the name Jane Seymour, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
which of course is quintessentially English. But I'm not. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
What does a kitty cat say? | 0:01:09 | 0:01:11 | |
Meow. Meow. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:12 | |
I really care about memories and I really want to know more | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
than just the names and the dates of birth and the family tree. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:20 | |
I know that some really extraordinary things must | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
have happened to, especially my Jewish family, | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
the Polish family, and I want to know more than just their names. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:29 | |
To begin with, this is a picture of my father. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
He was in the RAF. His name was John Frankenberg. | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
He was of Jewish descent, his father came from Poland, I'm told, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:09 | |
but he was born in the East End of London. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
He was an obstetrician and gynaecologist | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
and a doctor in World War II. He was also a Squadron Leader. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
At the end of the war, he was allowed to go to Bergen-Belsen. | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
He personally wanted to go | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
because he knew that some of his cousins had been interned there. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:27 | |
This is the most amazing photograph. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
I love it because it was the entire Frankenberg family in the 1930s, | 0:02:33 | 0:02:38 | |
all together in Poland. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:41 | |
Who I can actually recognise immediately is my father, | 0:02:41 | 0:02:44 | |
this would be my grandfather, Lewin, and my grandmother. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
Well, we all know that absolutely horrific things | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
happened to the Jews during the Holocaust and in this photograph, | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
there are two people here I'm particularly interested in. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
This is Great-Aunt Michaela and this would be Great-Aunt Jadwiga. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:02 | |
I heard that they survived. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
But they survived in Nazi-occupied Poland and France, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
and how does anyone survive the Holocaust during that time? | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
Jane is keen to find out about her Jewish great-aunts, | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
Michaela and Jadwiga, and their experiences under Nazi occupation. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:21 | |
She's starting in Warsaw to learn more about Jadwiga and what became | 0:03:21 | 0:03:25 | |
of her husband, Herman Temerson, and their two children, Jerzy and Hanna. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:31 | |
So, this photograph is obviously very important because it was sent | 0:03:50 | 0:03:54 | |
to my grandfather, Lewin. | 0:03:54 | 0:03:55 | |
It says, "Lewin, I love you, Herman." | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
And Herman was married to Jadwiga and Herman was an obstetrician | 0:03:58 | 0:04:01 | |
and gynaecologist, which is of course what my father became. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
So, I think this man was very influential in my father's choices. | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
And their children are here, Jerzy and Hanna. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:11 | |
And I have no idea what happened to them. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:14 | |
This is another picture of Hanna. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:18 | |
I can see a family resemblance. We all have that crooked smile. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
Jane is meeting Professor Jan Grabowski. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
So, where did Jadwiga live before the war? | 0:04:34 | 0:04:36 | |
So, before the war, Jadwiga and her husband, with their two children, | 0:04:36 | 0:04:39 | |
they lived in a very, I would say upscale neighbourhood | 0:04:39 | 0:04:42 | |
called Sienna Street, which was a upper class neighbourhood. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
You can see the street that they lived in, | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
which testifies to their wealth. | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
So, definitely a doctor was someone with good | 0:04:50 | 0:04:53 | |
standing in his community and this was a very much mixed area. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:57 | |
So you have, you have Christian Poles, | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
and you have Jews living together. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
And people like doctors, | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
they were heavily assimilated to Polish culture, | 0:05:05 | 0:05:07 | |
which of course was very helpful once war started. | 0:05:07 | 0:05:11 | |
Before war broke out, Jadwiga lived in an affluent part of Warsaw. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:19 | |
It was a cosmopolitan city where Jews and Poles lived side by side. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
But in September 1939, the Germans invaded Poland | 0:05:28 | 0:05:32 | |
and Warsaw was occupied. | 0:05:32 | 0:05:34 | |
A year later, in October 1940, the Germans created | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
a ghetto in the heart of the city, | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
enclosing it with a 10 foot high wall and forcing 400,000 Jews | 0:05:42 | 0:05:49 | |
into a space of just over one square mile. | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
The Polish Jews were cut off from the non-Jewish Poles, | 0:05:54 | 0:05:57 | |
living on the so-called Aryan side. | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
What you see here is basically the area of the ghetto. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
And this is actually the area through which we transit right now. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
If you look at the lowest part of the ghetto, | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
on the southernmost front you will see Sienna Street. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
This is where your family dwelled at that time, at least for some time. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
-Their home was inside the ghetto? -Their home was inside the ghetto. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:26 | |
So they didn't have to move, which was actually to their advantage. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:29 | |
They threw out the Poles who lived here | 0:06:30 | 0:06:33 | |
and they threw in the Jews who lived outside. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:35 | |
So, what would ghetto life have been like for Jadwiga? | 0:06:35 | 0:06:38 | |
They had some money, right? | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
They had some money, but the money would be gone soon. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
I mean, how long can you live off your resources? | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
The life in the ghetto became extremely, extremely, | 0:06:46 | 0:06:48 | |
horribly difficult. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
Starting in the winter of 1941, people start to die. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
Would her husband have been treating people in the ghetto | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
if they were so sick and he was a doctor? | 0:06:59 | 0:07:01 | |
Well, the Germans allowed the Jews to have their own little newspaper | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
and you can see here | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
that there are traces of your family's business at that time. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
Oh, so here I see Temerson and that's his clinic, right. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
And he is exercising his profession. He has his clinic. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
Now, the other thing is, I don't think he would be a very busy man, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
there were practically no births in the ghetto. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
How could they have adverts in the ghetto? | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
Did they have to pay for those? | 0:07:24 | 0:07:26 | |
If they didn't have money and they didn't have food? | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
Well, it wouldn't cost much to place an ad in a paper but the thing is, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:31 | |
people tried to live normal life as long as they really could. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:36 | |
But by 1942, over 80,000 people had died from starvation | 0:07:38 | 0:07:43 | |
and disease inside the ghetto. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
In January that year, the Nazis devised the Final Solution, | 0:07:47 | 0:07:52 | |
their plan to systematically exterminate the Jews of Europe. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:57 | |
In July, the Germans began to liquidate the ghetto. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:01 | |
Over a quarter of a million Jews were rounded up | 0:08:01 | 0:08:04 | |
and sent to Treblinka death camp to be murdered there. | 0:08:04 | 0:08:08 | |
So, Jadwiga was 50 years old. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
I'm very surprised that she managed to survive the ghetto, | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
but she would never have survived Treblinka, would she? | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
She would never have survived. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Probably, she would not even survive the trip. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:22 | |
If you had a contact outside the ghetto walls | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
among the Polish community, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:27 | |
and we can safely assume that your family had these links, | 0:08:27 | 0:08:31 | |
then getting out of the ghetto was difficult, it was not impossible. | 0:08:31 | 0:08:35 | |
Jan brings Jane to the Warsaw court building. | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
I have very strong reasons to believe that Jadwiga | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
made her flight from the ghetto through this building. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
This is a frontier between two worlds. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
On the one hand, you have ghetto, on the other hand, you have Aryan side. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:55 | |
And this was the way in which very many Jews from the ghetto | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
reached safety, for some time at least. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:01 | |
And moreover, we know that Jadwiga was not alone, | 0:09:01 | 0:09:05 | |
not the only member of her family that made good this escape | 0:09:05 | 0:09:09 | |
because if you look at this document here, it's part of a book of memory. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:14 | |
Many books of memory are written by Jews after the war who wanted | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
somehow to commemorate and to remember what has happened to them. | 0:09:17 | 0:09:21 | |
So, here you have an English translation. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
You can read it. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
"Temerson, Herman, Doctor Herman. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:27 | |
"He ran a gynaecological clinic in Warsaw and was the | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
"Chief Physician of the Association of Aid For Impoverished Women. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:35 | |
"During the time of the war, he was hidden on the Aryan side." | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
Well, there you go. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:40 | |
Here you have, I would say tangible proof of the fact that more | 0:09:40 | 0:09:44 | |
-than one member of your family managed to... -This is good news. | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
Managed to reach the Aryan side under German occupation, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
but outside of the horrors of the ghetto which they left behind. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:56 | |
What about the children? | 0:09:56 | 0:09:58 | |
Well, usually in this situation, | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
the parents would make certain that the children went first. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
So, usually before they fled themselves, they would have | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
arranged for their children to reach the safety of the Aryan side. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:10 | |
Escaping through the court building was fraught with danger. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
Jadwiga would have needed forged identity papers. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:20 | |
She would have pretended that she was attending a hearing, | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
then hidden somewhere to change clothes | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
and remove her Star of David armband so that she could emerge looking | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
as non-Jewish as possible. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
Up to 1,000 Jews escaped through the court building, | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
but once out, Jadwiga would have needed someone | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
Polish on the Aryan side who she could trust with her life. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
So, Polish people were willing to risk their lives to save some Jews? | 0:10:44 | 0:10:49 | |
Well, if you'll have a look at this announcement, | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
published in September of 1942, | 0:10:52 | 0:10:54 | |
that's when the ghetto is being liquidated, when the Jews flee | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
in large numbers to the Aryan side. | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
So, what the Germans do is here, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
they announce that anyone who helps Jews in their escape | 0:11:03 | 0:11:09 | |
will be punished by death. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
How obscene. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
Jadwiga knew that her presence exposed to danger | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
people who were around her, | 0:11:17 | 0:11:19 | |
and responsibility would not only be hers, | 0:11:19 | 0:11:22 | |
but also her hosts and sometimes even their neighbours. | 0:11:22 | 0:11:25 | |
It was called collective responsibility. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:28 | |
It simply meant "If you do something wrong, | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
"we are going after you and your family and perhaps your dog, too". | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
Mm. So the ghetto's on that side and that would be the door. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:37 | |
The Aryan side will be on the other side here, exactly. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
Well, so this, we believe, is the door through which your great-aunt | 0:11:46 | 0:11:53 | |
emerged from this building. She doesn't run. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
She probably emerges slowly with hesitation, trepidation, | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
through the door, and possibly for the first time in two years | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
she is in so-called a normal city. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
Behind the building, there was hell on Earth, right. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
And here you have a resemblance of normalcy. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:12 | |
What you have are people milling around doing their jobs, | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
but also, this is one of the most dangerous streets in Warsaw. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:19 | |
There are roaming gangs of people who prey upon the helpless Jews | 0:12:19 | 0:12:24 | |
who use this particular exit in order to reach some kind of safety. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:29 | |
Very, very scary. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:30 | |
These people didn't want to kill you. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
They wanted to rob you. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:34 | |
So, if you still had, you know, some pieces of jewellery, | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
you could give it to them and they probably would let you go | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
and they would transfer you into the custody of their friends | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
behind the corner who would rob you further, right. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:46 | |
Then finally, someone would call the Germans. | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
-Did she know who she was waiting for? -Well, probably, yes. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:52 | |
Because in this stage when she emerged, | 0:12:52 | 0:12:55 | |
she would have someone prearranged, someone who would wait for her | 0:12:55 | 0:12:59 | |
or at least she would know where she would direct herself. | 0:12:59 | 0:13:03 | |
Hard to imagine. | 0:13:03 | 0:13:04 | |
Hard to imagine. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
Somehow, my relatives got out of the Warsaw ghetto, | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
and what happened to them now I don't know, | 0:13:13 | 0:13:15 | |
because that was 1942 and there were still three more years of war. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
I can only hope that they were fortunate. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
Jane is meeting Professor Anita Prazmowska. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
We know that Jadwiga | 0:13:27 | 0:13:28 | |
and her family managed to get out of the Warsaw ghetto. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
Where would they have gone? | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
They would have been sheltered by Poles. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:35 | |
It wouldn't be possible for them | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
to survive without outside assistance, so they would be outside | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
the ghetto already, they would have been sheltered in most probably | 0:13:40 | 0:13:44 | |
extremely difficult circumstances and terribly frightened and lonely. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
And would they have been together or separate? | 0:13:48 | 0:13:51 | |
Most likely separate. It would be very dangerous to be together. | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
So, would they be, like, hiding in a closet or hiding in... | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
I mean, they could never go outside, could they? | 0:13:57 | 0:13:59 | |
No, never, because there is always an anxiety of being denounced, | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
someone asking questions. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:05 | |
They would be very likely hiding in the inner side of the house | 0:14:05 | 0:14:09 | |
if possible, not even coming out into the front door, | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
anything of the sort. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:14 | |
Why did you bring me here to this monument? | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
It's a monument which commemorates the outbreak of the Warsaw Uprising, | 0:14:20 | 0:14:23 | |
which was an attempt by the Poles to establish authority here. | 0:14:23 | 0:14:27 | |
In the summer of 1944, assuming that the Germans are withdrawing, | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
the Poles start an uprising. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
So, we've got this imagery of that surge of energy, that hope, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:36 | |
that optimism that the Poles will be able to capture the town. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:40 | |
And Jadwiga would have known that things were happening, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:43 | |
because everybody would have been whispering, | 0:14:43 | 0:14:46 | |
getting ready, bringing out whatever ammunition was available | 0:14:46 | 0:14:49 | |
and that must have been one moment of hope for her. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:53 | |
The Warsaw Uprising began on 1st August, 1944 | 0:14:55 | 0:14:59 | |
and was a major revolt led by the Polish underground | 0:14:59 | 0:15:04 | |
against the Germans. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:06 | |
Initially, the Poles caught the Germans off guard, | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
and some were captured. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:11 | |
But the Germans swiftly regrouped, with orders to kill | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
rather than imprison all of the city's inhabitants. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:19 | |
Between 150,000 and 200,000 Polish civilians were killed. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:26 | |
Why did the Germans hate the Polish so much | 0:15:30 | 0:15:33 | |
that they didn't just want to annihilate the Jews, | 0:15:33 | 0:15:37 | |
they wanted to destroy the whole of Warsaw, destroy Poland totally, | 0:15:37 | 0:15:42 | |
why did they hate Poland so much? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
Think of the German government and the German regime at that time | 0:15:45 | 0:15:49 | |
as a race-defined government, a government that defines itself | 0:15:49 | 0:15:54 | |
as a superior race, and therefore they are the inferior races. | 0:15:54 | 0:15:59 | |
The Jews have to die, but the Slavs, the Polish race, | 0:15:59 | 0:16:05 | |
likewise comes next. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:07 | |
It was also assumed by Poles | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
that once the Jewish community is exterminated, | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
that very likely the same process is going to happen. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
So, it is the race issue. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:16 | |
-So, they were trying to completely destroy Poland? -Yes. | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
Now that Jadwiga's in hiding, would the likelihood be that | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
-she was in a damaged house? -Most certainly, yes. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:28 | |
Because Warsaw is damaged terribly by fighting and subsequently | 0:16:28 | 0:16:32 | |
by the Germans coming in and mining every single building. | 0:16:32 | 0:16:35 | |
Warsaw is a skeleton, really, | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
and Jadwiga would have been very aware | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
of the precariousness of the world around her, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
both the physical world and also the emotional one. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
Anita takes Jane to a building that survived the war | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
and bears the scars of the Warsaw Uprising. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
This is an old building and sometimes, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
when I enter old buildings, I think, if only walls could speak. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
These walls must have seen a lot. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:12 | |
I have more information about your family | 0:17:16 | 0:17:18 | |
and this is an account of what happened to Herman Temerson. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:25 | |
So, I will let you read this. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
"Born in Pruszcz in 1884, graduated in 1911, a gynaecologist, | 0:17:29 | 0:17:34 | |
"he practised in Warsaw. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
"He was at his window, watching the Nazis as they hastily | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
"retreated from the city. | 0:17:40 | 0:17:41 | |
"A German rifleman took aim at him and fired. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
"Dr Temerson was probably the last physician | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
"to perish at the hands of the defeated Germans." | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
Wow! | 0:17:51 | 0:17:53 | |
-So, he almost made it? -Yes. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
And like many Poles also, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
he dies during the uprising in the most incidental way. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:09 | |
Just a casual way in which a German soldier takes aim | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
and kills a man, for no reason other than | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
because the man was there and the soldier could kill him. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:22 | |
So, who did this? Who...who wrote this? | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
Someone who might well have been responsible for sheltering him | 0:18:26 | 0:18:31 | |
or would have known about it | 0:18:31 | 0:18:33 | |
and wanted that information then to be conveyed further, to be recorded. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:39 | |
That could only have happened because he was so respected, | 0:18:39 | 0:18:43 | |
otherwise he would be just one more Jew who died. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
Do you think that Jadwiga would have known what happened to her husband? | 0:18:46 | 0:18:52 | |
Unlikely. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
Simply because she was most likely to have been hiding separately, | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
not in the same place. | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
It's just very tangible in a way to imagine that Herman would | 0:19:01 | 0:19:05 | |
have looked out of a window like this | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
and have survived that much of the war, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:11 | |
having survived escaping the ghetto, | 0:19:11 | 0:19:14 | |
having been saved, presumably by a Polish family. | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
I mean, he got that close. He got that close. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:20 | |
Well, that was in 1944. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
Now I'm really curious to find out what happened to Jadwiga | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
and what happened to Jerzy and Hanna. | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
Jane is meeting Professor Tony Kushner. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:42 | |
Nice to meet you. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:44 | |
This is a very important building in post-war Polish Jewish history. | 0:19:44 | 0:19:48 | |
This is where the Jews from 1945, | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
who are coming back into the city or maybe have survived in hiding | 0:19:51 | 0:19:55 | |
throughout the war, are going to find out about their relatives. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:59 | |
But it's also the place where they're going to get help with | 0:19:59 | 0:20:01 | |
rebuilding their lives. | 0:20:01 | 0:20:03 | |
So, this is the new epicentre of an attempt to revive | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
the Jews of Warsaw. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:08 | |
And this is where Jadwiga goes in June 1945 | 0:20:08 | 0:20:13 | |
and we have the first evidence of her from this card here. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:18 | |
So, if you'd like to read the translation of it. | 0:20:18 | 0:20:22 | |
"Mrs Jadwiga asks all the Temerson family members to contact her | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
"care of Mrs Eugenia on Jerusalem Street, 79, Apartment 3. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:34 | |
"Address should be given only to family members." | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
The address in Jerusalem Street is where she's living at this moment. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:41 | |
-And is that in Warsaw? -That's in Warsaw, yes. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
And it's in the heart of what was the Jewish area. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
Why only family members? | 0:20:46 | 0:20:47 | |
Why would she not want friends to contact her? | 0:20:47 | 0:20:51 | |
It's possible that she wants to keep her Jewishness | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
to some extent half-hidden, | 0:20:54 | 0:20:55 | |
she doesn't want the whole world to know that she's Jewish. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
This is not a safe place to be, there are attacks on Jews. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
There was a desperate shortage of housing, people are fighting | 0:21:02 | 0:21:05 | |
for scarce resources and they are still turning on the Jews. | 0:21:05 | 0:21:09 | |
I can only imagine that Jadwiga stayed here, | 0:21:09 | 0:21:11 | |
because she was hoping to at least find her children. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
I don't even know, does she know that Herman has died? | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
It's not even certain about that. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:19 | |
So there is something to be said for staying in a place. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
You may just hear from word of mouth, | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
but also just as basic as leaving messages on the building site, | 0:21:24 | 0:21:28 | |
the rubble of places where they used to live, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:31 | |
and that's how desperate people were. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
The chances of Jadwiga surviving at the age of, well, in her fifties, | 0:21:34 | 0:21:39 | |
at this time is, is pretty extraordinary, isn't it? | 0:21:39 | 0:21:42 | |
She is part of a remnant of a remnant. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:45 | |
It's extraordinary for a community of close to half a million, | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
by the end of the war | 0:21:48 | 0:21:49 | |
there are something like 11,000 Warsaw Jews alive | 0:21:49 | 0:21:54 | |
and within the city perhaps less than 1,000, | 0:21:54 | 0:21:57 | |
so people are going to come back. | 0:21:57 | 0:21:59 | |
So, she is a tiny remnant of this vast Jewish world | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
-that had existed before the war. -Oh, my gosh! | 0:22:03 | 0:22:07 | |
So, Jadwiga here is suggesting that people meet her at Jerusalem Street. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
Does that still survive? | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
Yes, and we can take you there now. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
So, this is the actual building that Jadwiga | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
lived in at the end of the war? | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
-And this would all have been rubble? -This was rubble. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
This was a nothing, an absence of anything, of any landmarks. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:40 | |
And we've got a couple of photographs here that just | 0:22:40 | 0:22:42 | |
shows ruins of a once great city. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
Oh, my goodness me! | 0:22:45 | 0:22:47 | |
Oh, my gosh! | 0:22:49 | 0:22:50 | |
That could have been Jadwiga. How can anyone survive there? | 0:22:54 | 0:22:57 | |
There's just... Just... Where do you survive? | 0:22:57 | 0:23:00 | |
The Germans had razed Warsaw to the ground | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
and destroyed 85% of the city. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
Across Poland, | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
over five million had died as a result of the German occupation, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
at least three million of whom were Jewish. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
So, Jadwiga is waiting for news. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
She's waiting for someone to come back, | 0:23:23 | 0:23:26 | |
waiting for a knock at the door or something, because she wants | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
-still to see if anyone is surviving of her immediate family. -And? | 0:23:29 | 0:23:34 | |
This document gives some indication of what's happened to Hanna. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:39 | |
Jadwiga's daughter. It says, | 0:23:39 | 0:23:43 | |
"Hanna Temerson is about 21 years old and is from Warsaw, Poland. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:49 | |
"She was seen in Belsen." | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
So, she's in Belsen? | 0:23:52 | 0:23:57 | |
Someone had spotted her in Belsen. | 0:23:57 | 0:23:59 | |
It's not definitive, but I think it's a very strong indication | 0:23:59 | 0:24:04 | |
that at some point, she's in Belsen. | 0:24:04 | 0:24:07 | |
My father went to Belsen to find his cousins | 0:24:07 | 0:24:11 | |
and obviously, he went there to find Hanna. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:14 | |
Belsen Camp was in Germany and very few Jews from Warsaw, | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
like Hanna, were sent there directly. | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
But towards the end of the war, it had a huge influx | 0:24:19 | 0:24:22 | |
of Jews from Eastern Europe, brought there on death marches. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
Concentration camp prisoners were forced to march | 0:24:26 | 0:24:30 | |
hundreds of miles further west | 0:24:30 | 0:24:32 | |
to be used as slave labour and to remove evidence of the camps | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
before they were discovered by the Allies. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
They were very public | 0:24:40 | 0:24:41 | |
in the predominantly closed arena of the Holocaust. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
Those who were too feeble to keep up were shot. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:48 | |
As many as 49,000 people died at Belsen, | 0:24:48 | 0:24:52 | |
just before and after liberation, in April 1945. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:57 | |
So, is there any chance that Hanna survived Belsen? | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
Well, what we do know is that the searching for her went on. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:08 | |
There are requests to the camps, which are now | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
Displaced Persons Camps, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:12 | |
has anyone seen her, has she registered, | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
and what we see in this document is such a request. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:20 | |
Oh, my goodness, I can barely even read this. What does this say? | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
"No trace in Belsen camp." | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
This is the cousin my father went to find. | 0:25:41 | 0:25:43 | |
And I didn't know about her history. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
I didn't know who she was, but this is who my father told me | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
he went to look for after the war. | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
And she's so beautiful at 21. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:00 | |
Was there any news of Jadwiga's son, Jerzy? | 0:26:11 | 0:26:15 | |
As far as we can find out, there's no news whatsoever. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
So, we can only assume that he had died earlier. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
I wanted to come to Warsaw because I wanted to find out | 0:26:28 | 0:26:32 | |
how Jadwiga survived. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
But the big question is, what does that mean at the end of the day | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
if she's lost her husband, she's lost her children, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:44 | |
she's lost her home, she's lost her entire society? | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
She's lost the entire city. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:49 | |
I can only imagine she must have lost her mind. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
I think I would. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:57 | |
It's time to go to Paris and find out about Michaela. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
She was living in occupied France and I believe she survived, | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
and I'm just hoping that hers was a happier story. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:32 | |
Jane is now on the trail of Jadwiga's sister, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
great-aunt Michaela, who had moved from Poland to France | 0:27:42 | 0:27:46 | |
before the war. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
She was living in Paris with her husband, Aron Singalowski, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
and their two daughters, Hanna and Lya. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
I love this picture because it really shows the whole family. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
And this is the only photograph I have of Michaela, | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
and I think it's wonderful | 0:28:11 | 0:28:12 | |
because she's sitting right beneath my father, John, and my grandfather, | 0:28:12 | 0:28:16 | |
Lewin, and she was married to this gentleman here, Aron Singalowski. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
And here I have this wonderful photograph of Hanna, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
one of their daughters, it says here, | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
"Hanna Singalowski, Paris, 1935." | 0:28:26 | 0:28:28 | |
And I know that's where they were living. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:31 | |
But then the war breaks and I'm dying to know what happened to them. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
-Hello, Jane. -Jane is meeting historian Hannah Diamond. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
-This is where Michaela lived in the 1930s. -Really? | 0:28:40 | 0:28:43 | |
Yes. Lovely house, isn't it? | 0:28:43 | 0:28:46 | |
Lovely part of Paris for her to have been. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
I've got this census from 1936 that we found in the local archives, | 0:28:50 | 0:28:55 | |
and you can see that it's this road. | 0:28:55 | 0:28:57 | |
-Is there a name on here that you recognise? -Singalowski! -Yes. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
-Aron Singalowski. Poland. -Yes. -Wow! And Michaela, Hanna, Lya. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:06 | |
-So, Hanna would have been 15 and Lya would have been 11. -Amazing. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:12 | |
-So, do you know anything about Michaela's husband? -Yes. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
Aron, he was the director of an organisation called the ORT. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:21 | |
Does that ring any bells with you? | 0:29:21 | 0:29:22 | |
I've heard of that, yes, I have heard the name ORT. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:24 | |
I have heard the name Singalowski but I never knew his story. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
-He was a very important man in the Jewish community. -Really? | 0:29:28 | 0:29:33 | |
Yes. It was an organisation which allowed Jews to retrain | 0:29:33 | 0:29:36 | |
when they'd lost their jobs, often because of political reasons. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
They'd train them to become carpenters, artisans, | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
and really he was a very distinguished figure | 0:29:43 | 0:29:45 | |
in the Jewish community and was renowned across most of Europe. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:49 | |
So, do we know how long he was in France or when he came from Poland? | 0:29:49 | 0:29:54 | |
He came here via Berlin with the organisation in 1933 | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
when Hitler comes to power in Germany. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
Paris at that time would have been a much more positive place | 0:30:01 | 0:30:04 | |
for them to live. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:05 | |
It was a very intellectually vibrant place. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:08 | |
Many, many Jews from Eastern Europe | 0:30:08 | 0:30:10 | |
and elsewhere were coming to France, who saw itself as really | 0:30:10 | 0:30:13 | |
a place of asylum for foreigners and particularly for Jews. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:17 | |
But then in September 1939, things changed dramatically | 0:30:17 | 0:30:22 | |
when France declares war on Germany. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
So, 1939, the war's begun. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
So, what would Michaela have done and her family? | 0:30:32 | 0:30:34 | |
Well, it was a very worrying time for everyone | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
because they knew the war had broken out | 0:30:37 | 0:30:39 | |
and nobody knew, really, what was going to happen. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
At this time, and for several weeks after, | 0:30:41 | 0:30:44 | |
we enter the period of the Phoney War. | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
The Phoney War lasted eight months, from September 1939 to May 1940. | 0:30:50 | 0:30:57 | |
Life continued much as normal for Michaela and the people of Paris. | 0:30:57 | 0:31:01 | |
But on May 10th, 1940, the Germans launched | 0:31:04 | 0:31:07 | |
an offensive on Holland, Belgium and then France. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:12 | |
The French forces were overwhelmed | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
and people began to flee their homes. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:17 | |
At this point, the people of Paris will start to notice some changes, | 0:31:18 | 0:31:22 | |
and here on the Place de la Concorde, there were peasants | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
fleeing from Belgium and Northern France | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
as the German army advanced, and Michaela might have noticed | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
that people had loaded up all their stuff and mattresses, | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
everyone talked about mattresses at this period, in the cars, and | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
she'd have thought, these are cars that come from just outside Paris. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
If these people are fleeing the German armies, that means | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
they must be very near. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
And she may have gone home to Aron and said, "Now we must leave." | 0:31:49 | 0:31:52 | |
So, where did Michaela and her family go? | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
They would have gone to a station to try and get a train. | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
They would have explored whatever they possibly could. | 0:31:57 | 0:32:01 | |
So, where did Michaela go? | 0:32:04 | 0:32:06 | |
I've got a document here that she filled out later in the war | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
that shows you. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
So, do you want to have a good look at this? | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
One minute, I'm going to put these on, because even I can't read that. | 0:32:13 | 0:32:18 | |
OK. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:19 | |
My name, Frankenberg. "Prename, Michaela..." | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
Marseille! | 0:32:26 | 0:32:27 | |
She's going to Marseille. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
So, when did they leave? | 0:32:29 | 0:32:31 | |
Well, they left in June, 1940, | 0:32:31 | 0:32:33 | |
and they were part of this hugely important moment in French history, | 0:32:33 | 0:32:38 | |
this huge movement of population, south, away, | 0:32:38 | 0:32:42 | |
fleeing the German armies. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
-I've got a photograph to show you... -Oh, my God! | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
..of one of the last trains and the throngs of people that there were. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:51 | |
How many people left Paris? | 0:32:51 | 0:32:53 | |
Well, about three-quarters of the population of Paris left. | 0:32:53 | 0:32:57 | |
And there were millions of people on the road. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
The writers who write about it talk about it as being a medieval scene, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
a huge popular displacement. | 0:33:04 | 0:33:07 | |
This mass of humanity is nothing | 0:33:11 | 0:33:13 | |
compared to what Michaela and her family had to deal with. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:16 | |
They were just crushing. There's this mass exodus. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
Three-quarters of Paris left at the same time as my family, | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
having already left Berlin trying to escape the Nazis. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
And now the Nazis are coming to Paris, so she's going off | 0:33:26 | 0:33:30 | |
to Marseille and I have no idea if she'll be safe there. | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
In just four weeks, over six million people abandoned their homes | 0:33:42 | 0:33:47 | |
and escaped south in a flight now known as the Exodus. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:50 | |
On 14th June, 1940, the Germans rolled into a deserted Paris. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:58 | |
Within days, France signed an armistice with Germany | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
and was divided, with German rule in the occupied, or Northern Zone, | 0:34:01 | 0:34:06 | |
and French rule at Vichy in the Southern Zone. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
In Marseille, Michaela and her family were far away | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
from the occupying Germans. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:14 | |
But they were now ruled by the Vichy government, | 0:34:14 | 0:34:17 | |
a government which was collaborating with Germany. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
Jane is meeting historian Karen Adler in Marseille. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:34 | |
So, Michaela and her family left Paris and came south | 0:34:36 | 0:34:39 | |
and I imagine came here because it was safer. | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
Well, they also came south, particularly to Marseille, | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
because it was a port. | 0:34:45 | 0:34:47 | |
There were hundreds and thousands of people coming here, | 0:34:47 | 0:34:50 | |
trying to get away by ship. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
It was extraordinarily over-crowded, there was a shortage of everything. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:58 | |
People were scrabbling around for just the basics of life. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:04 | |
Michaela and her family, they're foreigners, | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
so they're not really allowed to be there | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
until they have a residence permit, they have to constantly go and | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
try and find the residence permit, they are queueing up for food. | 0:35:13 | 0:35:19 | |
An awful lot of their time is just spent trying to live. | 0:35:19 | 0:35:24 | |
So, there's a lot of Jews now in Marseille and Michaela | 0:35:24 | 0:35:28 | |
and her family would feel that they were safe here | 0:35:28 | 0:35:30 | |
because they were surrounded by Jews? | 0:35:30 | 0:35:32 | |
-They wouldn't feel safe. -They wouldn't feel safe. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:35 | |
They wouldn't feel safe at all. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:36 | |
The French government at Vichy lost no time in passing its own | 0:35:38 | 0:35:42 | |
anti-Jewish laws and spreading virulent anti-Semitic propaganda. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:46 | |
In 1941, Michaela would have been aware that thousands | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
of foreign Jews were being rounded up and imprisoned in French-run | 0:35:52 | 0:35:56 | |
internment camps, one of which was less than 20 miles from Marseille. | 0:35:56 | 0:36:02 | |
So, how would Michaela and her family | 0:36:04 | 0:36:07 | |
have tried to get out of here? | 0:36:07 | 0:36:09 | |
One of the reasons that Michaela came here | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
was because it's a port and she could get away. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:16 | |
But in order to get away, she needed the right papers. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:19 | |
And to get the right papers she could go to the consulate, | 0:36:19 | 0:36:22 | |
and all of those are found here in Marseille. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
I wanted to bring you here | 0:36:36 | 0:36:37 | |
because this was a really important place for Michaela. | 0:36:37 | 0:36:41 | |
This was the former American consulate. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:45 | |
And what I've got here is | 0:36:45 | 0:36:46 | |
a photograph of what it was like for people, | 0:36:46 | 0:36:50 | |
for all the refugees. | 0:36:50 | 0:36:52 | |
OK. Oh, my gosh! | 0:36:52 | 0:36:54 | |
And what you can see here is people queueing up for days and days. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:59 | |
I can imagine everyone wants to get to the United States at this point. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:02 | |
-Of course. Yes, exactly. -And Hitler's a long way away. | 0:37:02 | 0:37:06 | |
Yes, but it was unbelievably complicated to try and get out. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:10 | |
And this document is an exit visa, OK. | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
So, it wasn't just a question of queueing up here for days on end | 0:37:14 | 0:37:21 | |
to get the visa to be allowed into the United States, | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
you also have to have a document that allows you out of France, | 0:37:25 | 0:37:30 | |
and your visa is going to be limited in length. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:34 | |
-It might just be a couple of weeks. -But this one is permanent. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:38 | |
No, it will run out. So, have a look at that. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:42 | |
OK. Singalowski, Aron, from Poland. Married with two children. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:46 | |
OK. Emigration. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:49 | |
And he's asking for a visa to go ultimately to the United States | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
and to emigrate. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
And it says, "No opposition, avis favourable." It's favourable. | 0:37:56 | 0:38:00 | |
-Yes. -So, he can now go to the United States. | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
This is good news, isn't it? | 0:38:04 | 0:38:06 | |
-It is good news. -Except? | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
They don't go. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:10 | |
Why would he not go? | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
His work was keeping him here. It was so important... | 0:38:14 | 0:38:18 | |
-Really? -..that he was working on behalf of the other refugees | 0:38:18 | 0:38:21 | |
and helping people worse off than him. | 0:38:21 | 0:38:24 | |
And what do you think Michaela felt about that? | 0:38:24 | 0:38:26 | |
Oh, what do you think Michaela felt about it? | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
I mean, she's a mother, she wants to protect her children. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
Surely she can smell that war is all around, | 0:38:31 | 0:38:34 | |
she's already been displaced several times, | 0:38:34 | 0:38:36 | |
I would think that this was about one of the most valuable things | 0:38:36 | 0:38:39 | |
that could ever happen. I'm sure she was proud of him, | 0:38:39 | 0:38:42 | |
but at the same time, I mean, she'd want to be practical, wouldn't she? | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
-Yeah. -So, what happened next to Michaela? | 0:38:45 | 0:38:49 | |
OK. The next stage of her journey in Marseille is actually just | 0:38:49 | 0:38:55 | |
over here, and this very grandiose building is the Prefecture. | 0:38:55 | 0:39:00 | |
Ah. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:01 | |
OK, so that was 1941 and now we're coming to 1942. | 0:39:01 | 0:39:06 | |
So, things are really getting very serious for Jews now in France. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:12 | |
And here we've got another document, OK. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:15 | |
Er, do you want to have a look at it? | 0:39:16 | 0:39:19 | |
Yes. "Singalowski, Aron. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:21 | |
-"Would like to have a visa en Suisse." -Exactly. -To Switzerland. | 0:39:21 | 0:39:25 | |
And it says, "No objection. Favourable." | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
So, 20th April, 1942, it was signed by the Chief of the Prefecture. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:33 | |
-In there. -And then Vichy signed it, 9th June. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
-And what did they say? -No! | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
-Vichy refused. -They refused. | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
In the Northern Zone, things are really heating up. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
A month later, Paris fell victim to a brutal raid ordered by the Nazis. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:56 | |
In July 1942, French police arrested over 12,000 Jews, | 0:39:56 | 0:40:02 | |
including 4,000 children the Germans had not requested. | 0:40:02 | 0:40:07 | |
Most were sent to their deaths in Auschwitz. | 0:40:07 | 0:40:10 | |
I'm thinking right now about Michaela and her family | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
and how close they were to getting to America, | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
and then possibly to Switzerland, and now nowhere. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
And they know what's going on in Paris and they know that | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
things are really getting, you know, from bad to worse. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
And I'm just wondering, you know, what did she do next? | 0:40:29 | 0:40:33 | |
OK, so now we've got another document that I want to show you. | 0:40:38 | 0:40:42 | |
SHE READS IN FRENCH | 0:40:42 | 0:40:48 | |
SHE READS IN FRENCH | 0:40:51 | 0:40:52 | |
-He wants to go to Mexico. -He wants to go to Mexico?! | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
-Now he wants to go to Mexico. -He must be insane. | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
That's a really long way. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:58 | |
And we've come here because this is the former Mexican consulate. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:04 | |
It was one of the few places that offered asylum. | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
I mean, their whole life is spent standing in line hoping that | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
somewhere, somewhere in the world someone's going to let them | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
out of this nightmare. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
That is absolutely it in a nutshell. | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
So, this is the next destination that Michaela comes to. | 0:41:22 | 0:41:27 | |
And there's a clue right up there. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
-Switzerland! -So she's doing the rounds. We've been... | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
She's starting again for Switzerland? | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
And she's coming back to the Swiss consulate. | 0:41:35 | 0:41:38 | |
Here is another visa application and this will tell you a bit more. | 0:41:40 | 0:41:47 | |
She wants to go for three months to Switzerland. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
-Ah! Refused again! -And then it's refused again. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
-This is getting to be ridiculous. -And so it's refused. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:56 | |
-Unbelievable! Unbelievable. -Vichy has refused again. | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
This is on 9th November, 1942 that it's accorded in Marseille, | 0:41:59 | 0:42:05 | |
and it's refused in Vichy on 19th November, 1942. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:10 | |
In between those two days, there's a huge change. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:15 | |
The Germans take over the whole of the Southern Zone. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:21 | |
On 11th November, 1942, the Germans invaded | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
the Southern Zone and on the 12th, they occupied Marseille. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
A week later, the family's official Swiss visa was rejected by Vichy. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:34 | |
The only way out now had to be an illegal one. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
So, what happened next is clear from another document | 0:42:39 | 0:42:43 | |
and it's from Switzerland. It's in German. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:46 | |
"Michaela..." I don't understand. | 0:42:46 | 0:42:51 | |
-What's it saying here? -Illogal, Illog. Illogo. Illegal? -Illegal. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:56 | |
-They say she's illegal? -Yeah. -And she's in Switzerland now? | 0:42:56 | 0:43:00 | |
So, she's in Switzerland but she has not got there legally, | 0:43:00 | 0:43:03 | |
she's got there illegally. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:05 | |
Oh, my God! How would she get there? | 0:43:05 | 0:43:07 | |
It's now that the non-legal means have to kick in. | 0:43:07 | 0:43:13 | |
There was no kind of, you know, off we go, direct to the frontier | 0:43:13 | 0:43:18 | |
and then we show our passports and we go across the border. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
-This was going from safe house to safe house. -My goodness. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:25 | |
And it might take a while and basically, now they're in hiding. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
-And were there soldiers or anyone around there? -Absolutely. Absolutely. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
There are guards who are patrolling the border. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:35 | |
-They could have been shot at any time? -They could have been shot, | 0:43:35 | 0:43:38 | |
they could have been found, they could have been arrested, | 0:43:38 | 0:43:40 | |
they could have been taken back into France. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:42 | |
-To get over the border, you just need to... -You just run. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
You just need to run. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:46 | |
Just one week after Michaela and her family arrived | 0:43:49 | 0:43:52 | |
in Switzerland, there was a mass round-up of Jews in Marseille, | 0:43:52 | 0:43:56 | |
by both the French and German authorities. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:59 | |
And over 1,600 Jews were sent to be murdered at concentration camps. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:05 | |
Next, the old port area where many Jews had lived was obliterated, | 0:44:07 | 0:44:12 | |
systematically dynamited by the Germans for sanitary reasons. | 0:44:12 | 0:44:17 | |
It's a life of fleeing. Yet again, they manage to get out just in time, | 0:44:20 | 0:44:24 | |
just in the nick of time, like, a week later, they round up everybody. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:28 | |
So, Michaela and her family are on the run again, | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
going from Marseille to Switzerland. | 0:44:39 | 0:44:43 | |
It's a long way. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:45 | |
Here am I, today, making this journey, quite easily. | 0:44:49 | 0:44:53 | |
It'll take me a few hours. They're travelling for weeks in the winter | 0:44:53 | 0:44:57 | |
and then they probably have no food, they have probably by now no money. | 0:44:57 | 0:45:02 | |
They must be travelling either on foot or by bicycle | 0:45:02 | 0:45:05 | |
if they're lucky enough, and occasionally a car, | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
but there would be very little petrol, | 0:45:07 | 0:45:10 | |
and they don't even know they're going to get across the border. | 0:45:10 | 0:45:13 | |
They don't even know if one link to another is going to work. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:16 | |
They don't know if they're going to get shot on their way. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:18 | |
It is a journey that is fraught with uncertainty | 0:45:18 | 0:45:21 | |
and fear at all times. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
And there's four of them. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
I can't even imagine. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:27 | |
So, here I am pretty much where Michaela and her family would | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
have been and in dead of night, waiting for the moment | 0:45:46 | 0:45:50 | |
when the Germans are not going to see them. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:52 | |
Hopefully, they've got this far | 0:45:52 | 0:45:54 | |
and they're going to make a mad dash through those woods | 0:45:54 | 0:45:57 | |
and on the other side is Switzerland. | 0:45:57 | 0:45:59 | |
So, Karen gave me this and this is the actual arrest papers. | 0:46:21 | 0:46:26 | |
They were arrested by the Swiss in the moment | 0:46:26 | 0:46:29 | |
they came over the border, and it's really interesting here | 0:46:29 | 0:46:32 | |
because it tells the date, it said it was 17th January, 1943, | 0:46:32 | 0:46:36 | |
11 o'clock at night, middle of the night, | 0:46:36 | 0:46:40 | |
and this is the spot where they were arrested, this is Corniere, | 0:46:40 | 0:46:45 | |
and it also says here that they... How did they get out? | 0:46:45 | 0:46:50 | |
They said, "clandestinement". Clandestinely. | 0:46:50 | 0:46:53 | |
In other words, secretly. | 0:46:53 | 0:46:55 | |
And then it asks here, "What was your reason for leaving?" | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
And it says, "Rechercher par les Allemands." | 0:46:58 | 0:47:01 | |
Hunted by the Germans. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
I mean, this looks like great news because they got across | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
and they've been arrested, but this one clearly says, "Illegal." | 0:47:08 | 0:47:13 | |
I don't know what that's going to mean to them. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:17 | |
Switzerland was one of the few neutral countries to which | 0:47:17 | 0:47:20 | |
Jews could escape during the war. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:23 | |
But it had a strict immigration policy, | 0:47:23 | 0:47:25 | |
limiting the numbers allowed in. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:28 | |
Those who managed to stay spent most of their time | 0:47:28 | 0:47:31 | |
in internment camps and were not allowed to seek work. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:34 | |
When Vichy France fell under German occupation, | 0:47:37 | 0:47:40 | |
Jews like Michaela fled to Switzerland, but tens of thousands | 0:47:40 | 0:47:44 | |
were sent back over the border, most to their deaths. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:49 | |
Have you been to Geneva before? | 0:47:55 | 0:47:57 | |
I have, actually. I learnt to speak French in Geneva. | 0:47:57 | 0:48:00 | |
-Oh, did you? -I did. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:01 | |
Jane is in Geneva, meeting historian Dr Jessica Reinisch. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:06 | |
All right, the last thing I know about Michaela was that | 0:48:06 | 0:48:09 | |
she was arrested at the border, so I'm very curious as to | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
what happened to her next, and her family, of course. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:15 | |
We know that they arrived in mid-January, 1943, | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
and they were sent immediately to an internment camp. | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
We have a document you may be interested in. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
This is just a page | 0:48:22 | 0:48:23 | |
from Aron Singalowski's entry questionnaire. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
And this paragraph in particular is quite | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
important in this context. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:32 | |
-What does it say here? -We have a translation for you. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
It says: "Assets. In Switzerland, around 35,000 Swiss francs." | 0:48:36 | 0:48:41 | |
-That's quite a lot of money? -It's a lot of money in the 1940s. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
He's relatively wealthy | 0:48:43 | 0:48:45 | |
-and he could reassure the Swiss authorities that he... -Had means. | 0:48:45 | 0:48:50 | |
-Yeah. -"Earnings from professional activities, | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
"Monthly income of 2,500 Swiss francs from the ORT Federation." | 0:48:52 | 0:48:56 | |
-So that meant he was allowed to work here? -Yes. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:59 | |
Aron was working for the ORT union, which was trying to precisely do | 0:48:59 | 0:49:02 | |
what the Swiss immigration policy had hoped would happen, which is | 0:49:02 | 0:49:07 | |
to equip refugees with skills and with training, which would | 0:49:07 | 0:49:10 | |
give refugees a possibility to leave as soon as hostilities allowed. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:14 | |
So, this isn't the end of the war. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
Did Aron stay here till the end of the war? | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
We do know that a couple of months | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
after his stay in the internment camp, he was living in hotels, | 0:49:22 | 0:49:27 | |
he was free at large. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:29 | |
-Really? -And he seemed to be working for the ORT. | 0:49:29 | 0:49:32 | |
So, this is very interesting to me | 0:49:32 | 0:49:34 | |
because when he had the opportunity to take them all to America | 0:49:34 | 0:49:37 | |
and he was in Marseille, he decided to stay behind | 0:49:37 | 0:49:42 | |
and be involved with his mission, which was working for ORT. | 0:49:42 | 0:49:45 | |
And that endangered their lives, | 0:49:45 | 0:49:47 | |
and they nearly got killed because of that. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:49 | |
And now, being this official at ORT is saving their lives | 0:49:49 | 0:49:54 | |
-and giving them amazing opportunities. -Absolutely, yes. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:58 | |
So, why are we in this building? | 0:49:59 | 0:50:01 | |
Well, we do have a letter which is dated 11th March, 1946, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:05 | |
which shows that he was living at this address. | 0:50:05 | 0:50:08 | |
Oh, so this is after the war. | 0:50:08 | 0:50:09 | |
-Who's this from? From Singalowski. -Yes. -OK. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:12 | |
"Monsieur, je vous serais tres reconnaisant de voulois bien | 0:50:12 | 0:50:17 | |
"accorder un visa d'entree et de sortie pour la Suisse | 0:50:17 | 0:50:22 | |
"pour ma belle-soeur." SHE GASPS | 0:50:22 | 0:50:24 | |
Oh, my God. "Madam Jadwiga, Jocheta Temerson, | 0:50:27 | 0:50:31 | |
"born Frankenberg." He's asking for a Swiss visa for his sister-in-law, | 0:50:31 | 0:50:38 | |
for Jadwiga. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:39 | |
"Le but du voyage est le retablisement de la sante | 0:50:39 | 0:50:44 | |
"tres ebranlee par les terribles epreuves..." Oh, my God. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:50 | |
Said the voyage is really important | 0:50:50 | 0:50:53 | |
because of the terrible circumstances that | 0:50:53 | 0:50:59 | |
she's had to go through, losing her husband and her two children. | 0:50:59 | 0:51:04 | |
After the initial euphoria of liberation, | 0:51:08 | 0:51:11 | |
for many victims of the war, another nightmare soon began. | 0:51:11 | 0:51:15 | |
Nearly 30 million people were displaced by the conflict, | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
malnourished, destitute and scarred by trauma. | 0:51:19 | 0:51:24 | |
Many could not return to their own countries for fear | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
of persecution or because their homes had been destroyed. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:31 | |
Across Europe, millions of Jewish refugees like Jadwiga | 0:51:31 | 0:51:36 | |
were desperately trying to get visas and find a safe place to live. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:40 | |
So, does she come? Does she manage to get in to Switzerland? | 0:51:42 | 0:51:44 | |
-Well, we do know that Aron managed to get her a visa. -Ah. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:50 | |
And we do know that she finally arrives. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:53 | |
When does she arrive? | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
So this is the key date here, the 23rd August, 1946. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
23rd August, so... | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
So, we do know that by April 1946, the visa is granted. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
-A six-month visa is granted. -Right. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:09 | |
-Which will take her to mid-October, 1946. -Yes. | 0:52:09 | 0:52:13 | |
So, Jadwiga came to this building, this was where Michaela was living. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
Jadwiga almost certainly lived with Michaela and Aron Singalowski. | 0:52:17 | 0:52:22 | |
I can't even imagine what it must have felt like having | 0:52:22 | 0:52:24 | |
come from where she was in Warsaw, which was in ruins, | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
and here to this quite palatial house. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:31 | |
I mean, suddenly she's in the lap of luxury by comparison. | 0:52:31 | 0:52:35 | |
-Absolutely. -And her sister still has a husband and both children. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:39 | |
-Yeah. -And she doesn't. So this must be really hard for her, | 0:52:39 | 0:52:42 | |
because she's seeing everything that she's lost. | 0:52:42 | 0:52:45 | |
Yes, absolutely. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:47 | |
Do we know if Jadwiga got to stay? | 0:52:47 | 0:52:49 | |
We do know that Jadwiga stays and in fact dies in Switzerland. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:53 | |
Jane has come to the Jewish cemetery in Veyrier near Geneva | 0:53:02 | 0:53:06 | |
to look for Jadwiga's grave. | 0:53:06 | 0:53:08 | |
Well, there's the tree. Could be fourth along from the tree. | 0:53:09 | 0:53:13 | |
One. Two. Three. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:22 | |
Oh, my gosh. | 0:53:24 | 0:53:25 | |
I can see the name Frankenberg. | 0:53:28 | 0:53:29 | |
It says, "Jadwiga Temerson Frankenberg, | 0:53:33 | 0:53:36 | |
"deceased in the month of October, | 0:53:36 | 0:53:40 | |
"interred on 8th November, 1946." | 0:53:40 | 0:53:45 | |
So, she must have died pretty soon after she arrived here in Geneva. | 0:53:45 | 0:53:51 | |
It doesn't say when she died, | 0:53:56 | 0:53:59 | |
other than it was in the month of October. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:03 | |
It's weird that we wouldn't know when she died, except for the month. | 0:54:03 | 0:54:10 | |
Jessica, do we know how she died? | 0:54:10 | 0:54:12 | |
We do have some information from this newspaper clipping. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:17 | |
This is from the Journal Dejeuner, on 7th November, 1946. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:22 | |
It says, "On retrouve... we found a body of a Polish woman called | 0:54:22 | 0:54:27 | |
"Jadwiga Temerson. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
"She disappeared in Geneva a month ago. | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
"The body of this person was found by the schoolchildren | 0:54:34 | 0:54:39 | |
"of Vieux Chateau near Saint Serge... | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
"dans un buisson..." | 0:54:44 | 0:54:46 | |
In a bush. | 0:54:46 | 0:54:47 | |
"We know that Madame Temerson had been very deprimer." | 0:54:47 | 0:54:55 | |
Oh, she'd lost a lot, very depressed. | 0:54:55 | 0:54:59 | |
Oh, God! | 0:54:59 | 0:55:01 | |
"Son mari... her husband had disappeared | 0:55:01 | 0:55:05 | |
"and her son had been shot | 0:55:05 | 0:55:08 | |
"and she had no idea of news of her other child." | 0:55:08 | 0:55:12 | |
Oh, my God! | 0:55:12 | 0:55:14 | |
So her son was shot, that's what happened to Jerzy, he was shot. | 0:55:14 | 0:55:17 | |
And that's the only one I couldn't find out about. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:20 | |
So, she was depressed and she ran away. | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
Now we know that her visa was good until 15th October. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:27 | |
We assume that she went on a trip and she wasn't found again. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
And the implication, the suggestion of this is that she killed herself. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:36 | |
Her prospects were very limited and she would have had to return | 0:55:43 | 0:55:47 | |
to Poland unless somehow, the permit could have been extended. | 0:55:47 | 0:55:52 | |
She must have felt pretty desperate at the end. | 0:55:52 | 0:55:54 | |
It was true for many survivors | 0:55:55 | 0:55:58 | |
that once they had stopped focusing on just simply surviving, | 0:55:58 | 0:56:03 | |
that life became much harder. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:05 | |
There was time to process, to think about the past, | 0:56:05 | 0:56:08 | |
which made the future seem impossible. | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
You know, to survive so much, to have had the strength to keep going, | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
to have the strength to lose your husband, the strength to not know | 0:56:14 | 0:56:17 | |
where your children are. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
The strength to go on this unbelievable journey and then | 0:56:19 | 0:56:23 | |
when you're finally safe and you're with your sister, just give up. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:30 | |
This is where they found Jadwiga's body here in the woods. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
And if there's any consolation, | 0:56:47 | 0:56:50 | |
she did pick one of the most beautiful spots | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
and one can only hope that she found peace in the end. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 | |
This has just been the most incredible experience for me, | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
to learn about Jadwiga and Michaela's stories, | 0:57:10 | 0:57:13 | |
because I realise that | 0:57:13 | 0:57:14 | |
in my family were two incredibly strong women that | 0:57:14 | 0:57:17 | |
survived against all odds and I just think the fact that I had | 0:57:17 | 0:57:20 | |
the privilege of following both of their stories | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
and that they actually found each other at the end, | 0:57:23 | 0:57:27 | |
it's about the indomitable human spirit, I think. | 0:57:27 | 0:57:30 |