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Greg Davies is a giant of British comedy. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
He made his name playing the world-weary teacher Mr Gilbert | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
in the hit TV series The Inbetweeners. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
If there's one thing no-one likes, it's a grass. | 0:00:14 | 0:00:17 | |
So I will ask you how this happened and you will reply, "I tripped." | 0:00:17 | 0:00:20 | |
But, Sir, if no-one reported crimes, the justice system would collapse! | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
I'll ask you again. How did this happen? | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
I tripped. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:29 | |
-HE TUTS -Clumsy. | 0:00:29 | 0:00:31 | |
'Are you ready for your closing act of the first half, Comedy Store?' | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
But his first love is stand-up. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:39 | |
'..and he's a very, very funny man. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome...' | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
-We'll see about that! -'..to the Comedy Store, London, | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
'Mr Greg Davies!' | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:00:47 | 0:00:50 | |
My dad died a couple of years ago and I am so my father's son. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
He is to this day - obviously I'm biased - | 0:00:53 | 0:00:56 | |
the funniest person I've ever met. | 0:00:56 | 0:00:58 | |
This is the noise she made... | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
HE SCREAMS | 0:01:00 | 0:01:02 | |
I used to watch him hold court at their parties when I was a kid. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
And I remember thinking, | 0:01:05 | 0:01:06 | |
"Yeah, I'd like people to listen to me tell stories." | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
So it all comes from him. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
-Then, I got on with my day. -LAUGHTER | 0:01:12 | 0:01:16 | |
I think the Welsh roots were incredibly important to my dad. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:20 | |
He told me that's why I had to be born in Wales, | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
just to make absolutely certain that when my rugby career took off, | 0:01:22 | 0:01:26 | |
I would be a Welsh international. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
And I'm very sorry that he got a fat comedian instead. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:32 | |
-Houston, we have a problem. -LAUGHTER | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
My dad did suggest there was a Davies secret, | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
so if there is a secret - great! | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
I would love it. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:44 | |
Ladies and gentlemen, you were really lovely, | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
thank you so much. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:48 | |
Enjoy the rest of the show. Bye. | 0:01:48 | 0:01:51 | |
I am embarrassed about my knowledge of my father's side of the family. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
I'm heading back to my mum's house in Shropshire | 0:02:32 | 0:02:35 | |
and I'm hoping that she can help me piece together some basics, really, | 0:02:35 | 0:02:39 | |
about my Welsh grandparents and great-grandparents. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:42 | |
Ah. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:50 | |
-Hello! -Hello. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
-Are you all right? -Yes, thank you. -Good. -You got here. -I got here. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:58 | |
What I've discovered so far is that I know hardly anything | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
about my family. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:04 | |
-So I'll be intrigued to see if you know more. -Yeah. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
On which side of the family would you like to know more about? | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
-Well, on Dad's side, I think. -Yeah. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
-Well, I've hunted a few photos and things out... -Have you? | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
..which might help. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:16 | |
-Ready? -OK. -What have you dug out then? -Well, this one. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:22 | |
Do you think I look like Dad in this picture? | 0:03:22 | 0:03:24 | |
Not so much in that one. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:25 | |
Not in the one where I'm pulling his ears out. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:27 | |
This one, definitely. Look at your grins, look. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
What I like about this is I remember I was deliberately | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
trying to make him laugh. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:35 | |
-And I did. -You succeeded. -And then I'm pleased. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
You can see in my face I'm desperately pleased | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
-that I got him laughing. -Got one over on him. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
I've got this excellent one. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:03:44 | 0:03:47 | |
-Your grandmother. -That's me and Nain, as I shall call her. | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
Everyone in North Wales calls granny nain, don't they? | 0:03:49 | 0:03:53 | |
-Yeah, and grandfather taid. -Yes. That's it, nain and taid. -Yeah. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
Do you know, I remember doing that. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
What a prat I was. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:02 | |
I was in her hat and coat. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
The thing that strikes me about it is there just no doubt | 0:04:04 | 0:04:08 | |
that I am her grandson. Facially. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
-No, none at all. -I don't look unlike her at all. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
-Put an old lady's hat on... -With that hat on. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:15 | |
-..me as a 12-year-old, and I am an old lady. -You are, yes. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
Things haven't changed! | 0:04:18 | 0:04:20 | |
-She was very funny. -She was great. -She was great. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
Is there a picture of Nain's mum? | 0:04:24 | 0:04:26 | |
-Just this one. -So this is Elizabeth? | 0:04:26 | 0:04:29 | |
-Yes. Your great-grandmother. -Blimey. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
I remember visiting her in that room. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:34 | |
1972. I was four. | 0:04:35 | 0:04:37 | |
That'll be one of my earliest memories, I think. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
So Nain, Edith, was the oldest of Elizabeth's children, is that right? | 0:04:40 | 0:04:44 | |
Of seven. Yes. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
The thing I remember that Dad always alluded to was that | 0:04:46 | 0:04:49 | |
her children didn't all necessarily look very alike. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
No, because they didn't have the same fathers. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
Well, that was the rumour. | 0:04:56 | 0:04:58 | |
We don't know who her father really is. | 0:04:58 | 0:05:00 | |
-We don't know who Nain's father is? -No. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:02 | |
What was written on her birth certificate? | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
-I can show you that. -Right. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:06 | |
-Right. Caernarfon. -It tells you which area, Porthmadog. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:13 | |
June, 1904, Edith was her name, girl. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:19 | |
And Elizabeth, the mother is listed as Elizabeth Thomas, obviously, | 0:05:19 | 0:05:22 | |
who was a domestic servant, which I didn't know. | 0:05:22 | 0:05:25 | |
-And the father is just left blank. -Yeah. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:28 | |
I'm just amazed that I never thought to question | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
who Dad's grandfather was. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
So we know that Nain definitely existed | 0:05:33 | 0:05:38 | |
-before Elizabeth got married. -Yes. | 0:05:38 | 0:05:40 | |
-And Elizabeth married who? -David Jones. -David Jones. -Yes. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:44 | |
-But David Jones definitely wasn't Nain's father? -Definitely not. | 0:05:44 | 0:05:47 | |
She was born before Elizabeth got married. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
The only other person I can think of that would hopefully fill in a gap | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
-would be Viona. Her mother and Edie were sisters. -Right. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:59 | |
Greg's great-grandmother, Elizabeth Thomas, | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
had seven children. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
The eldest of whom were Edith, Greg's grandmother, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:10 | |
and her sister Rebecca. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:12 | |
Edith and Rebecca's father was not the man Elizabeth married, | 0:06:12 | 0:06:17 | |
David Jones. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:19 | |
The identity of their father, Greg's great-grandfather, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:22 | |
is a mystery. | 0:06:22 | 0:06:24 | |
Greg is on his way to Mold in Wales | 0:06:32 | 0:06:34 | |
to visit his first cousin once removed, Viona. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
Ah, now. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:41 | |
I think we're about to enter the land of my father, Wales. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:48 | |
Yes, we are. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:49 | |
We are officially, | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
we are officially Welsh now. | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
It feels different. | 0:06:56 | 0:06:58 | |
Greg's hoping that Viona may know more about their family history. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
-Hello, Viona. -Hello, Greg, how are you? | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
-I'm very well, how are you? -Very well. -Nice to see you. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
Nice to see you! | 0:07:17 | 0:07:18 | |
So, yesterday Mum showed me | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
my grandmother Edie's birth certificate. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
And looking along the official description, when it says "father", | 0:07:26 | 0:07:30 | |
-it's just left blank. -Right. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
Well, it's the same on my mother's. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:35 | |
-I've got my mother's here. -Ah! -This is Rebecca, my mother. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:39 | |
You can see when she was born, 1907. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
-And that's blank as well. -Blank as well, yeah. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
In those days, that would have been pretty scandalous, wouldn't it, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
for there to be no father, no registered father? | 0:07:50 | 0:07:52 | |
-Oh, yes, yeah. -Yeah. -It would have been, yeah. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
So you would wonder how, with two daughters out of wedlock, | 0:07:55 | 0:08:00 | |
that Elizabeth would support herself, really. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:02 | |
She was very lucky, really, that her mother brought | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
Auntie Edie and my mother up. | 0:08:05 | 0:08:07 | |
They were brought up in Porthmadog in Snowdon Street, I think it was, | 0:08:07 | 0:08:11 | |
cos otherwise she would have ended up | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
on the street or in the workhouse. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
So is that the picture of my great-grandmother, Elizabeth? | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
-That's it. -That's amazing. | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
Very stern-looking woman, wasn't she? | 0:08:20 | 0:08:22 | |
She was a very stern looking lady. | 0:08:22 | 0:08:24 | |
If it was from a film, you'd say, "She looks a bit far-fetched. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:27 | |
"We should tone her down a bit!" | 0:08:27 | 0:08:28 | |
Dad told me he went round and took her out once | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
when she was having a good day, | 0:08:32 | 0:08:33 | |
and he said, "Where do you want to go?" | 0:08:33 | 0:08:35 | |
And she said, "The pub," straightaway. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:37 | |
-She knew exactly what pub she wanted to go to. -Yes. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
Well, she never went out, afterwards. | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
-They used to bring her a drink to the house. -Oh, did they? | 0:08:41 | 0:08:43 | |
And she used to hide it in the bed. | 0:08:43 | 0:08:45 | |
-She liked a drink, did she? -Hide it in the bed! | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:08:47 | 0:08:50 | |
So have you any clues as to who the father of Rebecca and my grandmother | 0:08:50 | 0:08:55 | |
-might have been? -Well, this is Edie's marriage certificate. -Ah! | 0:08:55 | 0:08:59 | |
So if I follow her line, Edith Thomas. | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
Father's name, David Thomas, deceased. Butcher. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
Yes, that's very strange, isn't it? | 0:09:07 | 0:09:11 | |
But why would he be named on a marriage certificate, | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
all those years later, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
and not on her birth certificate and not on your mum's? | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
-I think she made it up. -You think this is made up? | 0:09:19 | 0:09:22 | |
-I think it is. -So David Thomas, the deceased butcher... | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
..could be a real man, | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
or could be a flight of fancy from my grandmother! | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
THEY LAUGH | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
You know what it's like when you tell a fib? | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
-It goes on. -You start to believe it after a while. -Well, you do. | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
-You do, yes. You do. -Not that I've told many, of course, Viona! | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
-No! -Going to track down the mystery butcher. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
It shouldn't be that hard, | 0:09:50 | 0:09:52 | |
-there wouldn't be so many butchers in Porthmadog. -No. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
It's just tracking down imaginary butchers, | 0:09:55 | 0:09:57 | |
-that's the difficult task, isn't it? -Well, yes! | 0:09:57 | 0:10:00 | |
That's it. Oh. | 0:10:01 | 0:10:03 | |
Greg has come to Caernarfon in North Wales, | 0:10:06 | 0:10:09 | |
where the local records for Porthmadog, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
the town of his grandmother Edith's birth, are kept. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
He's looking for any clues which might help him discover | 0:10:16 | 0:10:19 | |
the identity of Edith's father, his great-grandfather. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:24 | |
-Annwen? -Hi. -Hello! Nice to meet you. -You too. | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
-I'm on the trail, I think, of my great-granddad... -Right. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:32 | |
..who had some children with Elizabeth Thomas, | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
-my great-grandmother. -OK. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
I've been having a look through our newspapers | 0:10:37 | 0:10:39 | |
and I think I've found a little snippet | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
that could be of use to you. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
This is the copy of the Herald Cymraeg, | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
which is the local Welsh-language newspaper for 1907. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
And they're giant. That's the first thing I noticed. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
They are giant. Yes! | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
So, this is an entry for May 14th. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:54 | |
You might be able to pick out a couple of words that are familiar. | 0:10:54 | 0:10:58 | |
Well, not really. My Welsh isn't... | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
No, but you might be able to spot Porthmadog, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
which is the area your great-grandmother lived. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:05 | |
Ah! Elizabeth Thomas, yeah. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
And Snowdon Street, which is where she lived. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:11 | |
-That's right. -Right. | 0:11:11 | 0:11:12 | |
Unfortunately, I don't understand what it says. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
I have got a translation for you, which... | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
-You can take that. -Brilliant. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:18 | |
"On the request of Mr J Jones Morris, | 0:11:20 | 0:11:22 | |
"William Owen of New Street was ordered to pay maintenance | 0:11:22 | 0:11:27 | |
"for the children of Elizabeth Thomas, Snowdon Street." | 0:11:27 | 0:11:31 | |
So... | 0:11:34 | 0:11:35 | |
William Owen is the name of my great-grandfather. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
It would seem so, yes. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:40 | |
And that's a totally new name in this. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:44 | |
So the butcher was made up - and that won't mean anything to you. | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
SHE CHUCKLES | 0:11:47 | 0:11:49 | |
That would have been a local scandal, do you think? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:52 | |
-Um, yes, probably. Um... -They weren't married. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:56 | |
No, they weren't, no. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:57 | |
And they've had two children together, | 0:11:57 | 0:11:59 | |
so it would have been known about in the local area. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
At the beginning of the 20th century, | 0:12:04 | 0:12:06 | |
illegitimacy cases were not uncommon, | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
but the court system did little to reduce the shame and stigma | 0:12:09 | 0:12:13 | |
associated with being a single mother. | 0:12:13 | 0:12:15 | |
Women seeking child maintenance, like Elizabeth, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
faced public humiliation, | 0:12:20 | 0:12:22 | |
as they were expected to testify against the father in court. | 0:12:22 | 0:12:26 | |
I think we can take this a little bit further, | 0:12:29 | 0:12:31 | |
and have a look to see if we can find mention of that case | 0:12:31 | 0:12:34 | |
-coming up in the courthouse. -Wonderful. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:37 | |
-So, luckily for you, this is in English. -Yes! | 0:12:37 | 0:12:39 | |
So you should be able to find the entry yourself, | 0:12:39 | 0:12:41 | |
-so I'll leave you to it. -Well, thank you, Annwen. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:45 | |
"Elizabeth Thomas versus William Owen." | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
There it is. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:51 | |
This is June, now. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:53 | |
So the case is ongoing. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
Do you know, I think that says "bastards". | 0:12:55 | 0:12:58 | |
It can't, can it? | 0:12:59 | 0:13:01 | |
It's actually, "bastardy", with a Y. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
So they've gone back to court because presumably - | 0:13:05 | 0:13:09 | |
"debt brought up" - yeah, he hasn't paid. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:11 | |
Yeah, he's a very irresponsible father. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:14 | |
Is what we've learned, I think. | 0:13:15 | 0:13:18 | |
Already I am softening towards Elizabeth | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
and what she's had to deal with. | 0:13:20 | 0:13:22 | |
The amount due was now £1-12-6. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:28 | |
And there's an order from the court, | 0:13:28 | 0:13:29 | |
"Arrears to be paid by instalments of five shillings. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:33 | |
"One month for first payment... | 0:13:33 | 0:13:36 | |
"or 14 days." | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
"Or?" What does that mean? | 0:13:39 | 0:13:42 | |
"One month or 14 days"? | 0:13:42 | 0:13:44 | |
Probably need Annwen to help me with. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:47 | |
Hello. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:48 | |
This is what I don't understand. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:51 | |
Right, I assumed that the 14 days would refer to a prison sentence, | 0:13:51 | 0:13:55 | |
for not paying the amount. | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
Oh, so he would go to prison if he didn't pay. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
-If he didn't pay the amount. -Within a month. -Within the month. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:03 | |
-Yes. -Of course, it's prison. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:04 | |
Well, they were serious then. | 0:14:04 | 0:14:07 | |
I don't understand why he hasn't paid her. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
He admits no effects, so he doesn't have the money to pay. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:14 | |
So he hasn't... Right. So it's not he won't pay, he can't pay. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
-It's a case of he can't pay. -Because he hasn't got any money. | 0:14:18 | 0:14:22 | |
To follow the story of his great-grandfather William, | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
Greg has come along the Welsh coast to Porthmadog. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
It's really quite peculiar having known my grandmother | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
as well as I knew her, that years after her death | 0:14:40 | 0:14:44 | |
I suddenly uncover the name of her dad. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
William Owen is never mentioned by our family, | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
and the reason he was never mentioned by our family | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
is because no-one, apart from Elizabeth, | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
my great-grandmother, I don't think knew who he was. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:02 | |
So I would like to know more about him. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
Greg is meeting a local researcher, Eilir Daniels. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
-Hello. -Hello. -Nice to meet you. -And you. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
Can you tell me something more about my great-grandfather? | 0:15:15 | 0:15:18 | |
-Yes. William Owen? -Yes. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
Luckily for us, he did get mentioned a few times in the local newspapers. | 0:15:20 | 0:15:25 | |
-Oh, was that unluckily for him though? -Well, we shall see. | 0:15:25 | 0:15:29 | |
The first mention is in 1901. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:31 | |
So this is before my grandmother was born. | 0:15:31 | 0:15:34 | |
Yes. Yes. A couple of years before. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:38 | |
-Interesting. -Now then... | 0:15:38 | 0:15:40 | |
-There you see his name. -Hang on a minute. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:44 | |
Well, I mean, straightaway, | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
-that's interesting because he was a butcher. -Yes. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
HE GASPS | 0:15:48 | 0:15:50 | |
And I've written... | 0:15:50 | 0:15:52 | |
I'd written the idea of a butcher off. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:56 | |
The fact that that half-truth got passed down is so fascinating. | 0:15:56 | 0:16:00 | |
So, "William Owen, butcher, from Bank Place, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
"was charged with having been drunk in charge of a horse and cart, | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
"on the night of February 12th. | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
"Catherine Caroll and Letitia Evans of Smith Street stated they saw | 0:16:10 | 0:16:16 | |
"the defendant leading a horse attached to a trap | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
"about eight in the evening. | 0:16:20 | 0:16:21 | |
"Mrs Caroll said she could not say he was drunk, | 0:16:21 | 0:16:24 | |
"neither could she say he was sober, but he was more drunk than sober." | 0:16:24 | 0:16:29 | |
That's a great quote. "More drunk than sober." | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
-HE LAUGHS -Oh, William! | 0:16:33 | 0:16:37 | |
Well, he was proved to have been drunk in charge of a horse. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
Which, I'm laughing at, | 0:16:41 | 0:16:42 | |
but I suppose was fairly serious business in 1901. | 0:16:42 | 0:16:45 | |
Yes, it wouldn't have been regarded lightly at all. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
-It's drink-driving really, isn't it? -Yes. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:51 | |
The next article relates | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
to an incident that took place | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
up the road, on Snowdon. | 0:16:58 | 0:17:01 | |
-What date is this, sorry? -1906. -'06. -So this is moving on a little bit. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:07 | |
-Now, my grandmother is now two. -Yes. -"Accident. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
"A party of Porthmadogites ascended Snowdon on Saturday night. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:16 | |
"Whilst ascending on Sunday morning, after sunrise, William Owen, | 0:17:16 | 0:17:22 | |
"in trying to jump over some big stones, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
"fell and seriously injured his leg." | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
I don't want to sort of start casting aspersions, but was he... | 0:17:27 | 0:17:32 | |
Climbing Snowdon on a Saturday night sort of suggests to me that | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
-maybe drink was involved. -Yeah. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
He was probably trying to impress people. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:39 | |
That's my gut instinct, but that might reflect very badly on me, | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
because I spent a lot of time as a young man showing off. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
The first thing that came into my head was he was a bit of a show-off. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
So interesting. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:52 | |
We managed to get hold of his birth certificate. | 0:17:52 | 0:17:55 | |
-You can read that. -So he was born in 1877. | 0:17:55 | 0:18:00 | |
-Yeah. -His father is Evan Owen. -Mm-hm. Yeah. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:02 | |
And his mother is Elizabeth Owen, formally Jones. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:08 | |
-Occupation of father. He was a farmer. -Yeah. -At Tremadog. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
-That's right. -Where's Tremadog then? | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
It's just on the outskirts of Porthmadog. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
And here we find William himself, in 1881. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
So this is the first census he would have been on. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:25 | |
-Four years after his birth. -Yeah. -Right. William Owen. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
There. There he is. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:30 | |
He lived in Bank Place, in Porthmadog. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:33 | |
Relation to the head of the family, grandson. | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
-Are these the grandparents? -Yeah. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:38 | |
Robert Jones, Elizabeth Jones. | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
-So he's living with his grandparents. -Yes. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
-Not with his parents. -The Jones grandparents, yes. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:47 | |
Right. What did they do? Did they work? | 0:18:47 | 0:18:50 | |
-Oh, so the grandfather is a butcher. -Yes. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:54 | |
I presume he went into the family business then. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
So why is he living with Elizabeth's parents | 0:18:56 | 0:18:59 | |
and not with Elizabeth and Evan? | 0:18:59 | 0:19:02 | |
That's the big question. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
-What's the big answer? -You need to go to Tremadog next. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:08 | |
-Where William was born. -He was registered in Tremadog. | 0:19:08 | 0:19:13 | |
-I knew I was born to be a detective. -SHE LAUGHS | 0:19:13 | 0:19:16 | |
-I mean, admittedly, you've done all the hard work. -Yeah. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
Having uncovered the identity of his great-grandfather, William Owen, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
Greg has also found out that his great-great-grandparents | 0:19:26 | 0:19:30 | |
were Evan and Elizabeth Owen. | 0:19:30 | 0:19:32 | |
Greg now wants to investigate why four-year-old William | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
was not living with his parents, Evan and Elizabeth, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
but with his maternal grandparents, Robert and Elizabeth Jones. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:45 | |
Greg has come to Tremadog on the edge of Snowdonia | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
to meet social historian Russell Davies. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:54 | |
This is the wedding certificate of Evan Owen and Elizabeth Jones. | 0:19:59 | 0:20:04 | |
So they were married in 1875 | 0:20:04 | 0:20:08 | |
and William was born, I think, 1877. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
All right. So they were married two years before William, | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
so that's all above board. | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
So when they got married, my great-great-grandfather | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
was living in - I am scared of my pronunciation - | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
-Cwm Mawr. -That's good. -Is it? -Cwm Mawr. -Cwm Mawr. -Yeah. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:28 | |
Farmers at Cwm Mawr. | 0:20:28 | 0:20:30 | |
If we look on to the next document. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
-This is a death certificate. -A death certificate, yes. -Right. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
For Elizabeth. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:37 | |
-HE GASPS -..she died 1877. -Yeah. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
The year that William was born. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
She was only 19 years of age. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
She died in... | 0:20:51 | 0:20:52 | |
So she died in childbirth. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:54 | |
Giving birth to William. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
Nine days after childbirth, she passed away. | 0:21:00 | 0:21:04 | |
Wow. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:08 | |
So, of course, that's why William is not living with his parents, | 0:21:08 | 0:21:11 | |
it's because his mother died. | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
He lives with the grandparents. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
How common would that be? | 0:21:15 | 0:21:17 | |
It would be pretty common, sadly. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:21 | |
You're working the land, | 0:21:21 | 0:21:22 | |
unforgiving the circumstances, | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
that you can't look after a child. | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
-Of course not, right. -And run a farm. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
So, what became of Evan and his relationship with William? | 0:21:29 | 0:21:34 | |
-Perhaps, if you take a look at this. -It's a marriage certificate. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
Ah. | 0:21:37 | 0:21:40 | |
So he remarried. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
Martha Parry. | 0:21:42 | 0:21:44 | |
1879, so only two years later. | 0:21:46 | 0:21:49 | |
Because Evan is only 24 years of age. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
Well, I'm glad he got remarried. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
That's, that's a... | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
There's a happiness there in a sea of woe. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:03 | |
The final document might throw a little light on Evan himself. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:07 | |
This is a clip from the North Wales Observer and Express. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:11 | |
-Yes. -In November, 1902. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:14 | |
"Mr Evan Owen has been elected a deacon | 0:22:14 | 0:22:19 | |
"at the Peniel Chapel. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
"He held a similar post at... | 0:22:22 | 0:22:24 | |
-Cwmystradllyn. -"..Cwmystradllyn Chapel." | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
-He's found God and he's rising through the ranks. -Yeah. -Yeah. | 0:22:28 | 0:22:32 | |
Greg now wants to go one generation further back, | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
to discover more about his great-great-grandfather Evan's life. | 0:22:43 | 0:22:50 | |
I'm going to try and find some more clues about | 0:22:50 | 0:22:52 | |
what had happened to Evan over those years, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:55 | |
since losing his wife and try and find out | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
if there's any connection at all between him and his son William, | 0:22:57 | 0:23:01 | |
my great-grandfather. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:02 | |
The last time I came on this little railway, | 0:23:08 | 0:23:11 | |
which is stunningly beautiful, | 0:23:11 | 0:23:13 | |
I was with my mum and dad, | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
and over 30 years later, it's really exciting to be back on it. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:20 | |
And it's really exciting | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
to be delving into my dad's past in this way. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
I can't tell you how much he would have loved this. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
I can't tell you how much he would have loved to have been part of it, | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
and how sad I am that he isn't. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:36 | |
Nantmor! | 0:23:52 | 0:23:53 | |
Greg has come to find the Peniel Chapel | 0:23:58 | 0:24:01 | |
where his great-great-grandfather Evan was elected deacon in 1902. | 0:24:01 | 0:24:06 | |
-Hello. -Hi. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:10 | |
I'm really looking for evidence | 0:24:10 | 0:24:12 | |
to see what role religion played in his life, | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
cos it was a big part of my immediate family's life. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
Certainly my grandmother was also a deacon, | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
which is what Evan was at this chapel, | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
and my dad described a lot of chapel activity | 0:24:21 | 0:24:27 | |
when they were kids. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:29 | |
Well, there it is. Peniel Chapel. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:33 | |
It's very strange. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:38 | |
It's very strange to find it. | 0:24:38 | 0:24:40 | |
CHOIR SING "CWM RHONDDA" | 0:24:46 | 0:24:50 | |
SINGING CONTINUES | 0:25:00 | 0:25:03 | |
SINGING CONTINUES | 0:25:09 | 0:25:12 | |
Watching the service, imagining a blood relative | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
who I didn't know existed until three days ago, | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
being part of this very building, it's most peculiar. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:23 | |
SINGING CONTINUES | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
HE SPEAKS IN WELSH | 0:25:37 | 0:25:39 | |
It's lovely to see a ritual that was a big part of my dad's life, | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
and my grandmother's, and now I'm learning | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
of my great-great-grandfather's. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
It's been a pretty overwhelming day. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
It's amazing. And very exciting. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
And quite moving. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:57 | |
To learn more about Evan's life, | 0:26:03 | 0:26:06 | |
Greg is meeting historian Dr Eryn White. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
What I'm trying to find out is a little more | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
about my great-great-grandfather Evan and anything that might explain | 0:26:12 | 0:26:17 | |
his relationship with his son. | 0:26:17 | 0:26:19 | |
-We've got some information from the 1891 census. -Ah. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:24 | |
So this is when Evan was living in Tal-y-llyn, | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
-before he moved to this area. -Right. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:30 | |
So you see he's listed here with his family. | 0:26:30 | 0:26:34 | |
Oh, with his new wife, Martha. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:36 | |
Oh, so he had more children. Three daughters. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:39 | |
-So he has a whole second family of half-sisters to William. -Yeah. | 0:26:39 | 0:26:45 | |
And they had two servants. So the farm was going well. | 0:26:45 | 0:26:48 | |
He was doing all right, wasn't he? | 0:26:48 | 0:26:49 | |
He WAS doing all right. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:51 | |
So it's interesting that, of course, you know, | 0:26:51 | 0:26:53 | |
the elder son is not living with him at this point. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
No connection with William, | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
he's just moved on and had another family. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
That's interesting, isn't it? | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
Right. This whole process, I'm very quick to make judgments. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:09 | |
This is what's so difficult to get to the heart of, | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
because we've got the historical documents, | 0:27:12 | 0:27:14 | |
but it's so hard to get the human story behind these, | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
so it's very difficult to know if they had any contact whatsoever. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:19 | |
I think it's not unfair to say that father and son | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
are on very different paths, from a certain point onwards. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:27 | |
William liked to have a drink | 0:27:27 | 0:27:30 | |
and he had two illegitimate children. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
The fact is they were actually geographically very close, | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
Porthmadog isn't that far away from Nantmor here, | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
but socially and culturally, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
-they seem to have been living very separate lives. -Yeah. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:45 | |
Somebody like Evan, of course, who was elected a deacon | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
with the Calvinistic Methodists would probably be expected | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
to sign the pledge to be teetotal. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
So we know for a fact that he would have disapproved of alcohol. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
We know for a fact that he would have disapproved of alcohol. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:58 | |
-And actively disapproved of alcohol. -Yes, actively disapproved. | 0:27:58 | 0:28:01 | |
During the 19th century, | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
a rise in heavy drinking sparked mounting concern. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
Local temperance groups preached the evils of the demon drink | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
and encouraged members to sign pledge cards, | 0:28:15 | 0:28:18 | |
committing them to lives of sobriety. | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
I can show you the banner... | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
that... | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
-..we have from 1836. -Right. -From Beddgelert, this very area. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:33 | |
-And this is anti-alcohol? -This is anti-alcohol. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:35 | |
This is a temperance society banner, | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
and it shows you the sort of contrast. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
So you have this devout Victorian patriarch, who frowns on alcohol, | 0:28:41 | 0:28:46 | |
and goodness and prosperity will come if you keep away | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
-from the demon drink. -Stay away from the evil drink | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
-and you'll have wonderfully rosy-faced children. -Yes. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:55 | |
And here we have, "Glwth a meddw yw efe." | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
"He's a glutton and a drunkard." | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
Glutton and a drunkard. Dear me! | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
So that does tell you an awful lot | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
about the relationship between father and son. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:10 | |
-They're almost acting out these roles, aren't they? -They are. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
Of course he's going to disapprove of that boy. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
It's very sad. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
-There is one other item we've got from a newspaper. -OK. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
This takes us forward to 3rd August 1920. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
This headline here - "Trychineb yn Llanrothen." | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
-We do have the English translation here. -Just as well. Yes. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:32 | |
"Disaster in Llanrothen. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
"Two drowned." | 0:29:34 | 0:29:35 | |
Oh. | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
"Friday afternoon, Mr Evan Owen and Mrs Anne Hughes were travelling | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
"in a vehicle to the market in Porthmadog. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:47 | |
"It appears that when they were crossing Point y Traeth, | 0:29:47 | 0:29:49 | |
"a bridge, the horse became disturbed | 0:29:49 | 0:29:51 | |
"and started to move backwards until he hit the rail | 0:29:51 | 0:29:54 | |
"and fell into the River Glaslyn." | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
"The bodies of Mr Evan Owen and Mrs Hughes could be seen | 0:29:57 | 0:30:00 | |
"carried away by the flood." | 0:30:00 | 0:30:02 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
Oh, dear, Evan. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:06 | |
Well, I wasn't expecting that. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:11 | |
And I wonder what William thought of this, | 0:30:14 | 0:30:16 | |
I wonder if he was even in touch with William. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:18 | |
It's very difficult to know at this point. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:19 | |
We're sort of willing him, "Get back in touch with your son!" | 0:30:19 | 0:30:22 | |
-That's what I'm thinking. -Mm. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:24 | |
"Get back in touch with your son! | 0:30:24 | 0:30:25 | |
"Maybe he needs you, he's drinking too much." | 0:30:25 | 0:30:28 | |
So I'm willing their relationships to all sort themselves out, | 0:30:29 | 0:30:33 | |
and then he goes and drowns. | 0:30:33 | 0:30:34 | |
I mean, you know... | 0:30:40 | 0:30:41 | |
It's so strange when you get involved in someone's life | 0:30:44 | 0:30:46 | |
like this, someone who's long dead. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:48 | |
I'm so sad to hear that he drowned. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
Greg has come to the Point y Traeth, the scene of Evan's drowning, | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
to meet local historian Nia Powell. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:10 | |
-So I was given this report, Nia, that gives more detail. -Yes. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:16 | |
There's a witness statement here, actually, from Doctor Tarleton, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:20 | |
who was the person who got Evan's body out of the water? | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
Well, he was a fisherman and he happened to be here | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
on the bank fishing and saw what happened. | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
Right. "Doctor Paul Tarleton gave evidence and stated that he was | 0:31:29 | 0:31:32 | |
"on the furthest side of the bridge when he saw the vehicle approach | 0:31:32 | 0:31:35 | |
"from the direction of Garreg. | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
"The horse started to take fright and it went against the rail, | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
"which broke, and the cart and its passengers fell into the river. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:44 | |
"He could not say what caused the horse to take fright." | 0:31:44 | 0:31:48 | |
What happened, apparently, I've heard, | 0:31:48 | 0:31:50 | |
is that as they were crossing the bridge, | 0:31:50 | 0:31:53 | |
the water was so high that it actually bubbled through the planks. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:58 | |
-Yes. -And the horse shied because of this, | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
started backing and the whole cart fell through the railing, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:07 | |
which was defective, into the water. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:10 | |
Right. "Doctor Paul Tarleton jumped into the river and he swam as far | 0:32:10 | 0:32:14 | |
"as he could but he could not reach them as the current was too fierce. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
"Then he called on Jones to give him a fishing rod and he succeeded in | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
"dragging the body towards the river bank. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:24 | |
"He tried to resuscitate him but to no avail. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
"He saw the other body being carried away but couldn't reach it." | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
Yes, sad story, isn't it? | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
It is, it really is a sad story. | 0:32:34 | 0:32:36 | |
So, Nia, this story at the time was pretty big news in the area then? | 0:32:38 | 0:32:42 | |
Oh, it was. | 0:32:42 | 0:32:44 | |
I think it shook the whole area. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
He was such a well-known figure, really. | 0:32:46 | 0:32:49 | |
-A prosperous farmer, etc. -Yeah. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
And in a sense, I think, well, | 0:32:51 | 0:32:52 | |
some modern myths have arisen out of it. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
My mother always told me that around this area there's ghosts | 0:32:55 | 0:33:00 | |
of a man and a woman, in a horse and cart, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:03 | |
-with the man cracking his whip to get the horse to go. -Really? | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
And that it's associated with this accident. | 0:33:07 | 0:33:09 | |
Well, I think that's a fitting point for us to leave here, | 0:33:09 | 0:33:12 | |
with the idea of my great-great-grandfather | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
still riding the bridge and cracking his whip. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:19 | |
-I think that's wonderful. -He may just come along that road now. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
He may, he may. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:23 | |
Learning about the sad demise of Evan throws up lots of questions | 0:33:32 | 0:33:37 | |
about fathers and sons. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
This whole area of Wales brings back lots of memories | 0:33:41 | 0:33:45 | |
of spending time with my dad. | 0:33:45 | 0:33:47 | |
And for me to be discovering the story of two men from my family, | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
a father and son, who seemingly had no relationship, | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
is quite a contrast. | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
And sort of niggles at me, | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
to the extent that I have to find out more about William, | 0:34:03 | 0:34:06 | |
because I do think it will have cast such a shadow on his life. | 0:34:06 | 0:34:09 | |
The last thing Greg discovered about William was that he fathered | 0:34:16 | 0:34:20 | |
two daughters, Edith and Rebecca, | 0:34:20 | 0:34:23 | |
with his great-grandmother, Elizabeth, | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
and that she was pursuing him for child maintenance for them. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
Greg's now picking up William's story | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
and he's come to Snowdon Street in Porthmadog, | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
to see the house where the girls were born. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:42 | |
-Eilir. -Hello. -Hello again. -Hello again. -Nice to see you. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:47 | |
-And you too. -So, this is number 56, | 0:34:47 | 0:34:52 | |
-the place where my nain was born. -Yes. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:56 | |
Which is most peculiar, to think of Nain being born here. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:01 | |
So I've learned an awful lot, Eilir, since we last met, about my family, | 0:35:01 | 0:35:06 | |
but I'm sort of at a bit of a dead end with William. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:09 | |
I've been delving deeper. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
See what you make of this. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
Something tells me this isn't going to be good. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:17 | |
Ah! Now, this is a birth certificate. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:20 | |
So this is a daughter that William's had, Elizabeth, | 0:35:20 | 0:35:23 | |
a girl, in 1907. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:26 | |
So this is a new... | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
This is a new daughter by a different lady. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:34 | |
Martha Owen, formerly Williams. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:37 | |
Formerly Williams? | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
So that suggests that he was married to this lady? | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
It suggests that, doesn't it? | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
Oh, goodness me. Well, this is... | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
-This is complicated. -It does get complicated now, yeah. | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
-So this is 1907. -Yes. -And... | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
I'm just trying to remember, | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
Edith, my nain, was born in 1904. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
-That's right. -But Rebecca was born in 1907. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:09 | |
That's right, yes. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:11 | |
Oh. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:13 | |
You're doing the maths, and... | 0:36:13 | 0:36:15 | |
So the same year... | 0:36:15 | 0:36:17 | |
The same year William fathered Rebecca, | 0:36:18 | 0:36:22 | |
my nain's younger sister, | 0:36:22 | 0:36:24 | |
he also fathered a daughter called Elizabeth, | 0:36:24 | 0:36:28 | |
by a different - a different lady. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:32 | |
-So really, we're into proper scandal territory here. -Yes. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
He's been shockingly irresponsible. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
-That's one way of putting it! -That's what I would say. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:42 | |
Oh, goodness me, William. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
So there were two ladies pregnant, for a period of several months, | 0:36:44 | 0:36:48 | |
-by the same man. -In the same town. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:51 | |
In the same town, which is not a big town, | 0:36:51 | 0:36:54 | |
-Porthmadog. -Not at all, no. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:55 | |
That would have been really scandalous. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
And he's still listed as a butcher, so he's still in the same place. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
We know it's an established butcher's, | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
so everyone will know him. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
-Very much so. -Do we know where the butcher's was? | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
We do, yeah. It's along the High Street, not far at all. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:13 | |
Right. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
-The butcher's shop, number 11, Bank Place. -There it is. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
-Shall we go in? -After you. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
Clearly not a butcher's any more, but the signs are there. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
These presumably would be for hanging the meat on. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
So, dare I ask, Eilir, if you have anything else, | 0:37:33 | 0:37:36 | |
now we're here, where William worked? | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
I do, yes. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:41 | |
I have this document, well, it's an article from the Cambrian News. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:46 | |
-Right. -And See if you can have a look at this article | 0:37:46 | 0:37:51 | |
in the middle, there. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:52 | |
"Lot number one. Mr Henry Roberts, | 0:37:52 | 0:37:54 | |
"is instructed by the representatives | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
"of the late Mrs Jones, butcher, | 0:37:57 | 0:37:59 | |
"to sell by auction at 11 Bank Place." | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
1907, so the year of this great drama of William | 0:38:03 | 0:38:08 | |
fathering two children by two different ladies. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
The butcher's shop has been put up for sale. | 0:38:11 | 0:38:13 | |
It was owned by his grandmother. | 0:38:13 | 0:38:15 | |
-Yes, it was his grandparents' business. -Yes. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
His grandmother had only just recently died. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
And now he's essentially lost his job, lost his livelihood. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:25 | |
So, now, now we know why in a court case with Elizabeth, | 0:38:25 | 0:38:30 | |
he was unable to pay. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:32 | |
-It's pretty grim all round, really. -Yes. | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
I can't imagine, in a small town like this, | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
faced with this situation what he could do. | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
There weren't many options available to him. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:44 | |
He was mentioned again in the local newspapers. | 0:38:44 | 0:38:49 | |
-In the news. -Now, this is three years on. -Three years later. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:54 | |
An English translation. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
-"Avoiding payment." -"Avoiding payment." | 0:38:56 | 0:38:58 | |
"In the courthouse on Thursday, Mr William Owen, | 0:38:58 | 0:39:01 | |
"butcher from Porthmadog was prosecuted for not paying | 0:39:01 | 0:39:05 | |
"maintenance for his illegitimate child | 0:39:05 | 0:39:08 | |
"in accordance with a court order of May 1907. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:11 | |
-"It was said that the debt was £16 by now." A lot of money. -It is. | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
"Mr John Humphrys, for the defendant, | 0:39:17 | 0:39:19 | |
"said that William Owen had behaved well in the South." | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
"He had behaved well in the South." | 0:39:22 | 0:39:23 | |
What does that mean, "in the South"? | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
-The South would mean South Wales. -Right. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
So I wonder why he went to South Wales, what led him there? | 0:39:30 | 0:39:33 | |
Presumably he had to flee North Wales and put some space | 0:39:33 | 0:39:38 | |
between him and the mess he's created. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:41 | |
"The bench committed him to prison for a fortnight." | 0:39:41 | 0:39:44 | |
So he did go to prison. Blimey. | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
I think what I've got to find out now is where he went | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
in South Wales, to get a full picture of what happened next. | 0:39:50 | 0:39:54 | |
Well, Eilir, thank you so much for delivering... | 0:39:54 | 0:39:59 | |
..you know, by any definition, an amazing raft of grim news, | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
in the story of William Owen. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:08 | |
Greg has discovered that by 1910 his great-grandfather William | 0:40:14 | 0:40:18 | |
had left Porthmadog. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:20 | |
-Thank you. -There you go. You're welcome. -Thank you. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
Right, so, I'm going to try and find out where William went to, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:31 | |
after a pretty disastrous period in his life. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:35 | |
We know that he went to South Wales. | 0:40:35 | 0:40:37 | |
Ah-ha, right, there he is, William Owen. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:41 | |
And he's listed as living in 25 Upper Terrace, Stanleytown, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
in Glamorgan in South Wales. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
His spouse is still listed as Martha Owen, | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
so I guess that bodes slightly well for him. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:54 | |
He's got two children now, Bessie Owen, and a son, Robert. | 0:40:54 | 0:41:00 | |
He's no longer a butcher. | 0:41:00 | 0:41:01 | |
He's now down as a colliery labourer. | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
So he's in mining now. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
So it feels to me, if I'm going to really find out about, uh, | 0:41:06 | 0:41:10 | |
about William's life from this point, | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
I probably need to go to Stanleytown. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
The thing that strikes me is what a long distance it is, | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
even in a modern car. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
It's going to take the best part of four hours. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:28 | |
Of course, William would have been, presumably, | 0:41:28 | 0:41:31 | |
travelling by horse and cart. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:33 | |
I can't shake the idea that William may have been taking | 0:41:35 | 0:41:38 | |
his family away from the chaos he's caused in North Wales. | 0:41:38 | 0:41:43 | |
But if my great-grandfather did think he could evade | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
his responsibilities, | 0:41:48 | 0:41:50 | |
I'm here to tell him that 105 years on, | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
I'm coming for him. | 0:41:54 | 0:41:55 | |
Into the Valleys, real mining country. | 0:41:57 | 0:41:59 | |
By the early 1900s, | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
when Greg's great-grandfather William came to work in Stanleytown | 0:42:05 | 0:42:08 | |
in the Rhondda Valley, the area's mining boom was in full swing. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:13 | |
At their peak in 1913, | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
the mines of South Wales employed a quarter of a million men, | 0:42:18 | 0:42:21 | |
and produced 57 million tonnes of coal. | 0:42:21 | 0:42:25 | |
Greg is meeting local historian Dr Daryl Leeworthy, | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
who's been looking into William's life in Stanleytown. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:35 | |
So, welcome to the Rhondda, Greg, and to Stanleytown itself. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:39 | |
Thank you, I'm happy to be here. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:41 | |
And I must say, it's really surreal to be standing outside | 0:42:41 | 0:42:45 | |
William's next home, from Porthmadog. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:48 | |
If I show you this photograph here, | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
which you can immediately place yourself in just by looking | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
-at the rows of houses. -Absolutely, yeah. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
You can see the pits along the valley floor there. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
-Following the line of the valley. -Absolutely. -Going round. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:01 | |
So that picture was taken probably when he was living in the house. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
-Yeah. -So, my feeling is that as well as finding work here, | 0:43:05 | 0:43:11 | |
he was using this distance to get away from a fairly sticky situation | 0:43:11 | 0:43:15 | |
up in Porthmadog. | 0:43:15 | 0:43:16 | |
Well, if you think there were about 500 people | 0:43:16 | 0:43:19 | |
living in the Rhondda in 1801. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:20 | |
And by the time William is down here, there's over 150,000 people. | 0:43:20 | 0:43:26 | |
-Wow. -They've come from the North, the North of England, | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
the West Midlands, the West Country. | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
His neighbours, they've never met him before, | 0:43:31 | 0:43:33 | |
-they might be from Bristol. -Right. | 0:43:33 | 0:43:34 | |
So it doesn't really matter. You're making a new society. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
-Yeah, it's an entirely logical journey in a way. -Yeah. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:41 | |
So, the big question is, Daryl, | 0:43:41 | 0:43:43 | |
have you found any other information that would give me more of a picture | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
-of William? -Well, we've managed to find, | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
to trace William and Martha's last surviving daughter, Meirionwen, | 0:43:49 | 0:43:54 | |
who's rather keen to meet you. | 0:43:54 | 0:43:57 | |
-Who's still alive? -She is indeed, yes. | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
Well, that is incredible. | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
I'm trying to think what relation she is to me then. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:09 | |
Step-grandmother? | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
No. Half-granny? | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
I've got a half-great-aunt. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
-HE LAUGHS -I didn't know about! | 0:44:16 | 0:44:19 | |
Greg knows that as well as having two daughters | 0:44:22 | 0:44:24 | |
with his great-grandmother Elizabeth, | 0:44:24 | 0:44:26 | |
his great-grandfather, William Owen, | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
had another family with Martha Williams, | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
the woman he married. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:33 | |
Their eldest children were Bessie and Robert, | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
and Greg's now discovered that their youngest daughter, Meirionwen, | 0:44:40 | 0:44:44 | |
who was born in 1928, is still living in South Wales. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
Greg has come across the valley to the Welfare Hall in Tylorstown, | 0:44:55 | 0:44:59 | |
which has been the hub of the local community since the 1930s. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
He's meeting Meirionwen here. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
-Hello. -Hello. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:12 | |
-Hello, Meirionwen. -Hello. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:14 | |
How lovely to meet you. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:16 | |
-I'll need a ladder for me to get up! -You will. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:18 | |
-THEY CHUCKLE -How are you? -Very well, thank you. | 0:45:18 | 0:45:20 | |
-It's nice to meet you. -You're like my family. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:22 | |
-Yeah? -Yes. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:24 | |
-Do I look like them? -Yes, you do, yes, yes. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:27 | |
I can see it in your face as well, I really can! | 0:45:27 | 0:45:29 | |
You've such similar eyes to my nain. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
-Have I? -Yeah. -You look like a big great-grandson. -Really? -Yeah. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
Well, it's pretty recent news to you that there were, | 0:45:36 | 0:45:40 | |
-that you had two half-sisters. -Of course it was, I was gutted. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:43 | |
I couldn't believe it. Never, ever thought of it. | 0:45:43 | 0:45:45 | |
What I know is that by the time your dad came down here, | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
-he already had two children. -Yes, that's it. | 0:45:48 | 0:45:50 | |
How many brothers and sisters were there in the end? | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
Six boys and three girls. | 0:45:53 | 0:45:56 | |
Now then, that's Evan, a bit like you, by there. | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
-I can't tell you how much he looks like my dad. -Yes. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
-And my brother Gwynedd. -That's your brother? -Yes. | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
-He was a smooth one, wasn't he? -Oh, yes. -Yeah. | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
-And there's me, by there. -Ah! | 0:46:09 | 0:46:11 | |
-And that's my mother. -That's your mum? -Yes. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:15 | |
-Hard-working woman, she was. -Martha. Was she? -Yeah. | 0:46:15 | 0:46:17 | |
Do you think your mother knew that he had other children? | 0:46:17 | 0:46:20 | |
No, I don't think she did. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:21 | |
-She didn't have a very nice life with him at all. -Really? | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
-Very jealous. Very moody. -He was a very jealous man? -Yes. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
So, he wanted to be jealous and all, didn't he? | 0:46:28 | 0:46:30 | |
Well, it's amazing that he was the jealous one, because he was... | 0:46:30 | 0:46:33 | |
Yes, yes, awful jealous. She had three daughters, | 0:46:33 | 0:46:36 | |
and my mother used to say to us, | 0:46:36 | 0:46:37 | |
"If you had the life that I've had... I'd rather bury you." | 0:46:37 | 0:46:42 | |
Didn't want us three girls to get married. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
Because life with William was that bad? | 0:46:46 | 0:46:48 | |
-There he is, by there. -There he is. -Yeah. | 0:46:48 | 0:46:52 | |
-William. -Mm. -It's the first time I've seen him. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
And I feel like I've got to know him very well over the last few days. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:59 | |
-SHE CHUCKLES -Yeah. | 0:46:59 | 0:47:01 | |
The picture we've picked up of him as a young man, | 0:47:01 | 0:47:03 | |
he was a real Jack-the-lad, you know? | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
Oh, yeah, oh, he was Jack-the-lad, all right. | 0:47:05 | 0:47:08 | |
-He looks tall, was he tall? -Yes, he was, yes. | 0:47:08 | 0:47:10 | |
-Big man, very big man. -Like, over six foot, was he? -Yeah. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
-Not freakish, not 6"8? Not like me. -No, no, not like you, no! | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
Here's his great-grandson, tracking his daughter down, | 0:47:19 | 0:47:22 | |
hundred years later, I bet he never thought that would happen, did he? | 0:47:22 | 0:47:25 | |
-No. I bet he's turning in his grave, he is. -Well, yeah. He got found out. | 0:47:25 | 0:47:30 | |
You always get found out in the end. | 0:47:30 | 0:47:32 | |
-In the end, even if it is 110 years later. -Yeah. | 0:47:32 | 0:47:35 | |
William died in 1941, | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
and Meirionwen has told Greg that his grave is just up the road | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
in the local Tylorstown Cemetery. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
I'm looking for William's final resting place. | 0:47:55 | 0:47:58 | |
Ah, here he is. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
I don't think it would be right for me to be too negative | 0:48:06 | 0:48:10 | |
about a man, when I'm standing next to his grave. | 0:48:10 | 0:48:13 | |
I don't think my nain would like that, but the truth is, | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
I've followed the journey of, by most accounts, | 0:48:16 | 0:48:20 | |
quite a difficult man. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:21 | |
What I'm left feeling is, that I don't connect with him. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
I can see my family in Meirionwen | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
but I can't see my family in William, | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
from everything I know about him. | 0:48:32 | 0:48:34 | |
Weirdly, I feel more connected to Evan. | 0:48:34 | 0:48:37 | |
What it feels like to me is I should go back to North Wales, | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
where my family really started. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:43 | |
The final thing Greg wants to do is retrace his steps to North Wales, | 0:48:55 | 0:49:00 | |
where he hopes to find out more about his Owen family roots. | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
So I'm on the road towards Cwm Mawr, probably pronounced badly, | 0:49:09 | 0:49:14 | |
which is the farm that we know Evan was living in when he got married. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:18 | |
So it will be interesting to see what sort of farm it is. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:21 | |
He's come to the hills of Snowdonia to visit the Owen family farm, | 0:49:21 | 0:49:25 | |
where he knows Evan lived as a young man. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
The view is amazing. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
Yeah, that is an incredible view. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:36 | |
Here it is. | 0:49:39 | 0:49:41 | |
Greg is meeting another of his Owen relations, Alwena Lamping. | 0:49:48 | 0:49:52 | |
-Hello, Alwena. -Hello, Greg. -How nice to meet you. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
Yes, lovely to meet you too. | 0:49:57 | 0:49:59 | |
I understand we have a shared heritage. | 0:49:59 | 0:50:01 | |
Well, a shared ancestry in Evan Owen, I think, | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
-yes, certainly, yes. -Yes. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
I am Evan Owen's great-great-grandson. | 0:50:05 | 0:50:09 | |
-I'm his great-granddaughter. -Are you? -I am. -Right. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:13 | |
This is where he grew up, then? | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
I can trace back the family to this farm since about 1660. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:21 | |
-Really?! -Yeah. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:22 | |
-Wow. -So little Evan, in the 1850s, with his brothers and sisters, | 0:50:24 | 0:50:28 | |
would have run around here. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
That's incredible, I had no idea there were generations | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
-before him even at this farm house. -Absolutely. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:36 | |
I have got a photograph of him and his wife, | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
and I think it's the four daughters. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:42 | |
-Here. -Can I take it out? | 0:50:42 | 0:50:44 | |
-You can indeed. -That is an incredible photograph. | 0:50:44 | 0:50:47 | |
-You see, there's the man himself, there's Evan Owen. -Yes. | 0:50:48 | 0:50:51 | |
-There's his wife, she's called Martha. -Yeah. | 0:50:51 | 0:50:54 | |
This is my grandmother, Mattie. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:57 | |
-This is clearly their Sunday best, isn't it? -Yes. | 0:50:57 | 0:50:59 | |
-Is that a Bible he's got there? -Yes. -Of course. | 0:50:59 | 0:51:02 | |
-Of course it is. -What else? What else? | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
The impression I've form of Evan is that he was a very upright | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
and respected member of the community and a chapel man, or, | 0:51:08 | 0:51:13 | |
as my nain would say, he was chapel. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:15 | |
But I haven't really formed an impression of the man | 0:51:15 | 0:51:18 | |
outside of that. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:19 | |
One of the obituaries, one of the tributes to him was from this, | 0:51:19 | 0:51:23 | |
-The Herald Cymraeg. -After the awful horse incident. | 0:51:23 | 0:51:26 | |
-After the accident, yes. -Yeah. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:27 | |
I do have a transcription of it here, in English. | 0:51:27 | 0:51:31 | |
"Mr Evan Owen had lived for many years in Tal-y-llyn. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:35 | |
"He was a very intelligent man, | 0:51:35 | 0:51:37 | |
"a great theologian with extensive knowledge of the Scriptures. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:41 | |
"He could talk skilfully of both religious and national matters. | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
"He also had a certain mischievous or comic talent, | 0:51:44 | 0:51:47 | |
"which showed when he was with his closest friends | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
"and he was a very sociable man." | 0:51:50 | 0:51:52 | |
That's great to know. | 0:51:52 | 0:51:54 | |
Mischievous, comic talent, that is not, | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
-that is not a phrase that I would attribute to that face. -No! | 0:51:58 | 0:52:02 | |
My nain had a wicked sense of humour and was extremely mischievous, | 0:52:03 | 0:52:08 | |
and my father was a wonderful show-off, yeah, | 0:52:08 | 0:52:12 | |
-and a very funny man. -So it was there? | 0:52:12 | 0:52:14 | |
It was, yeah, it was there. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
Through her research, Alwena has discovered that at least | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
eight generations of the Owen family farmed at Cwm Mawr. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
So is this farm still in the Owen family? | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
No, it isn't. Evan Owen's brother was the last one to farm this land. | 0:52:30 | 0:52:34 | |
The actual land belonged to one of the big estates | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
-and was sold in 1897. -I see. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:40 | |
Which was actually detailed in Gwalia. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:44 | |
And there's quite interesting information about the family in it, | 0:52:44 | 0:52:47 | |
-which I've got a translation here for you. -OK. | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
"At the recent farm stock sales in the Eifionydd area, | 0:52:53 | 0:52:57 | |
"we were surprised to see the last of the old lineage | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
"of the Cwm Mawr family was leaving. | 0:53:00 | 0:53:03 | |
"We find that the current family and their ancestors had lived there | 0:53:04 | 0:53:08 | |
"for at least 200 years. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:10 | |
"The Owens, who lived there, were descended from Owen..." | 0:53:10 | 0:53:15 | |
-Gwynedd. -"..Gwynedd." | 0:53:15 | 0:53:16 | |
-Do you know who Owen Gwynedd is? -I don't. -Right. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:21 | |
He was King of Gwynedd in the 12th century. | 0:53:21 | 0:53:24 | |
He was king of this area? | 0:53:25 | 0:53:27 | |
King of the whole of this part of North Wales in the 12th century. | 0:53:27 | 0:53:31 | |
And he was the first Prince of Wales, | 0:53:31 | 0:53:33 | |
he was the first to be styled Prince of Wales. | 0:53:33 | 0:53:36 | |
Are you saying we're descended from the first Prince of Wales? | 0:53:42 | 0:53:44 | |
-I am, yes. -I knew it! | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
-SHE CHUCKLES -I knew it! | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
-I knew I had royal blood. -Yes... | 0:53:49 | 0:53:52 | |
But it is a long time ago, | 0:53:52 | 0:53:54 | |
this is the 12th century and Owen Gwynedd had a lot of children, | 0:53:54 | 0:53:59 | |
I mean a lot of children. | 0:53:59 | 0:54:00 | |
So if you think of the descendants coming back from the 12th century, | 0:54:00 | 0:54:05 | |
he did have a lot of descendants. | 0:54:05 | 0:54:07 | |
He had, some reports say he had 19 children... | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
I'm sure he did but... | 0:54:09 | 0:54:11 | |
-I'm sure he had an awful lot of children. -Yes. | 0:54:11 | 0:54:14 | |
And I'm sure there are many, many descendants, | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
but all I'm hearing is that I'm descended | 0:54:16 | 0:54:19 | |
-from the original Prince of Wales. -Yes. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:21 | |
And that's all I'm going to hear, I'll be honest with you. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:25 | |
That's fine. And this, of course, was Gwynedd, | 0:54:25 | 0:54:27 | |
which is what he was king of, look, behind you. All of that. | 0:54:27 | 0:54:30 | |
-It's not a bad landscape to be king of. -No, it's not, is it? | 0:54:30 | 0:54:33 | |
If I've read you correctly... | 0:54:35 | 0:54:36 | |
..I rule this. | 0:54:38 | 0:54:39 | |
Owen Gwynedd became ruler of Gwynedd in 1137, | 0:54:43 | 0:54:47 | |
and afterwards conquered most of North Wales. | 0:54:47 | 0:54:50 | |
In 1165, he triumphed over the English king, Henry II, | 0:54:52 | 0:54:57 | |
who had invaded his kingdom, | 0:54:57 | 0:54:59 | |
and afterwards took the title Prince of Wales. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
I've been led to believe that there is an outside chance | 0:55:04 | 0:55:08 | |
that I may not be the only person who is descended from Owen Gwynedd. | 0:55:08 | 0:55:11 | |
So I'm heading to an appropriately named pub. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:16 | |
Hello. I'm looking for people who might be related to Owen Gwynedd. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:26 | |
-ALL: -Us... -Me. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:28 | |
-All of you? -Yes. -Of course. -Right. | 0:55:28 | 0:55:31 | |
-LAUGHTER -Let me guess... | 0:55:31 | 0:55:34 | |
You're all descended from Owen the Great. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
-ALL: -Yes! | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
Hands up who's got proof of that? | 0:55:38 | 0:55:40 | |
All of them. | 0:55:40 | 0:55:42 | |
How many of you are descended from Owen Gwynedd? | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
-ALL: -Yes. -You all are? -Yes. -And you've all got proof? -Yes. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:48 | |
There we are, look. | 0:55:48 | 0:55:50 | |
How many of you are descended from Owen Gwynedd? | 0:55:50 | 0:55:54 | |
Including our little friend there, as well? | 0:55:55 | 0:55:58 | |
Is there anyone in this part of the world that isn't descended | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
-from Owen Gwynedd? -Not many. -Not many! | 0:56:00 | 0:56:03 | |
People at home are going to be very upset by this. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
They thought they'd found their new leader. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:08 | |
North Walians thought their leader had come home, | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
and now I find out they're all the Prince of Wales, even the women! | 0:56:11 | 0:56:16 | |
It's been quite an overwhelming journey, | 0:56:22 | 0:56:25 | |
there's a lot to think about. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:27 | |
I've never really considered the significance of extended family | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
before, because we, as a family, were quite a tight unit, | 0:56:31 | 0:56:36 | |
and obviously I knew my grandparents, | 0:56:36 | 0:56:39 | |
but didn't really consider the influence of those further back. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:43 | |
And that's one thing that I'm left in no doubt of - | 0:56:43 | 0:56:47 | |
is that the people who've gone before you, | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
shape who you become, to a degree. | 0:56:49 | 0:56:52 | |
And I haven't really worked out to what extent, | 0:56:53 | 0:56:57 | |
but I've felt it for the first time ever, really. | 0:56:57 | 0:57:00 | |
So much of this has been, for me, | 0:57:05 | 0:57:07 | |
about fathers and sons and the relationship of fathers and sons, | 0:57:07 | 0:57:10 | |
and the importance of that, | 0:57:10 | 0:57:12 | |
and I think my father would be, uh, | 0:57:12 | 0:57:16 | |
both delighted and annoyed | 0:57:16 | 0:57:20 | |
that I have at last taken an interest in his family, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:25 | |
and the roots that were so dear to him, | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
and I will come back here and I will find out more, | 0:57:27 | 0:57:31 | |
and I'm only sorry I didn't do it sooner. | 0:57:31 | 0:57:34 | |
All mine! | 0:58:04 | 0:58:06 |