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Sunetra Sarker is an actress, | 0:00:06 | 0:00:08 | |
best known for her role as Doctor Zoe Hannah in Casualty. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:12 | |
You tell ITU they are taking this patient now. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
Even if I have to wheel her there myself. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:18 | |
She got her first break at just 15-years-old, | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
when she appeared in Brookside. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:23 | |
-Hiya, Sam. -What are you doing here? | 0:00:23 | 0:00:25 | |
-Come to spy on me like everyone else? -No, I just wanted to see you. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:28 | |
Well I don't want to see you, all right? | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
I've always been really proud to say that I'm from Liverpool. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
It's something that comes so easily to me. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:36 | |
The minute anybody says, "Where are you from?" | 0:00:36 | 0:00:37 | |
I say, "I'm from Liverpool." And I really like saying that, actually. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:43 | |
It's such a cliche, isn't it, a ferry across the Mersey! | 0:00:43 | 0:00:46 | |
And yet it's so nice. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
Growing up was definitely an Indian household. | 0:00:50 | 0:00:53 | |
Mum always wore a sari, and a bindi on her forehead. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
We only really ate Indian food, even Christmas dinner was Indian. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:05 | |
I preferred to be more British. | 0:01:05 | 0:01:09 | |
So, I would speak with a Liverpool accent. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
As many British and English, | 0:01:12 | 0:01:15 | |
Anglicised things that I could bring into my life, I did. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
Me and my mates were secretly buying Bovril soup, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
which is, like, unheard of, because Hindus don't eat beef. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
And I probably denied being Indian as much as I possibly could. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
Mum's always been really good at talking about family | 0:01:33 | 0:01:37 | |
and it just used to go in one ear and out the other. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:39 | |
I wasn't paying attention. | 0:01:39 | 0:01:41 | |
I didn't really see any point knowing my history, | 0:01:41 | 0:01:43 | |
because we weren't in India. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
I really wish I had paid more attention, because now I'm grown up, | 0:01:46 | 0:01:51 | |
I know it's not about being cool any more. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
My family's all from India, and I actually like it. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
I want to know more about it. | 0:01:57 | 0:01:59 | |
I know we've got a really important great-grandfather somewhere | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
in the family, who was a lawyer and wrote novels. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:08 | |
And he's talked about as a god, almost, in our family. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
So, I suppose, now, | 0:02:12 | 0:02:14 | |
is a chance when I get to see if I can find out some of that, | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
some of that history that I didn't want to know back then. | 0:02:18 | 0:02:21 | |
Sunetra's parents settled in Liverpool after moving from Kolkata | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
in India a few years before Sunetra was born. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:05 | |
She's come to see them, | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
to find out more about her great-grandfather | 0:03:07 | 0:03:09 | |
on her mother's side, who was a revered figure in the family. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
-Hello! -Hi! | 0:03:15 | 0:03:19 | |
-How are you? -Hi, Mum. Hi, Dad. | 0:03:19 | 0:03:23 | |
I want to have a little chat with you, Mum. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:26 | |
Dad, would you put the kettle on? You can do the teas. | 0:03:26 | 0:03:29 | |
You make a great cup of tea. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:31 | |
One sugar, please. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:32 | |
Let's go in, Mum. | 0:03:32 | 0:03:35 | |
OK, so what I've realised, Mum, | 0:03:35 | 0:03:37 | |
is that I don't actually know a lot about our family history. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:41 | |
So, before I start this journey, | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
I want to ask you to tell me the things that you've probably already | 0:03:43 | 0:03:46 | |
told me that I didn't listen to. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:48 | |
Where do I start from? | 0:03:48 | 0:03:50 | |
I can show you a picture of Ma and Dadu. | 0:03:50 | 0:03:55 | |
You have heard about him? | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
Dadu is my mum's dad. | 0:03:57 | 0:03:59 | |
Yeah. Your grandad. I mean, everybody talks about him. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
-Which one is he? -There he is. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
OK. Is that you? | 0:04:04 | 0:04:06 | |
Yeah, that's right. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:08 | |
I can see that's you straightaway. | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
And this is a better picture of Dadu. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
So, Dadu is this sort of character in the family | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
that you all talk about. What was his full name? | 0:04:16 | 0:04:19 | |
Doctor Nares Chandra Sen-Gupta. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:22 | |
He was the famous lawyer and novelist. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:26 | |
-He was a lawyer and a writer. -A writer. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
He was in touch with all the great literary figures of that time. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:33 | |
And even, Tagore, whose name you hear all the time. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:37 | |
-Yeah, I know him. -Yeah, he knew him. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:39 | |
He's like the Shakespeare of India, isn't he, almost? | 0:04:39 | 0:04:41 | |
Yeah, yeah. And actually, Tagore wrote a letter to him. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:47 | |
-Saying what? -It's almost a letter of apology. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
Oh, you've got the letter? | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
I've got the letter here. | 0:04:53 | 0:04:56 | |
The letter to Nares from Rabindranath Tagore, | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
India's greatest ever writer, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
has been hanging on a relative's wall for decades. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
-Wow. -And this is his signature. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:06 | |
What is he saying in this letter, "I like your books, | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
-"I like what you're writing"? -No, no. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
He's not saying that. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
"I know that this kind of letter is not easy to write, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
"very few people can write a letter like that. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:22 | |
"Sometimes trying to hurt each other, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
"we get into... ourselves, into a trap. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
"I hope now we have both come out of that." | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
So, I don't know exactly what he's talking about. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
-"Trapped"? -Maybe you can... | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
-..find out, yeah, maybe I can. -Then we will know. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
Did he have any brothers or sisters? | 0:05:42 | 0:05:44 | |
We just know his one younger brother and younger sister, | 0:05:44 | 0:05:48 | |
Charuprobha Sen-Gupta. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:50 | |
Who, actually, went to the prison at one time. | 0:05:50 | 0:05:55 | |
-What, his sister did? -Yeah. -Why? | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
Because she was involved in the freedom movement. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:03 | |
She was a very emancipated woman. | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
-How old was she? -I don't know the exact story. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:09 | |
Oh, Mum, that's quite rock and roll, isn't it? | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
She went to prison. It must have been quite a big deal. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
It seemed like it was a bit of a mystery, | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
behind what did that letter really mean? | 0:06:20 | 0:06:23 | |
So, that intrigues me, and it also intrigues me that there is a sister | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
of this great-grandfather of mine who went to jail, | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
for who knows what. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
So, I think we might have to go to India to find out a bit more. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
Sunetra is travelling to Kolkata, in India, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
where her great-grandfather, Nares used to live. | 0:06:41 | 0:06:44 | |
HORNS BLARE | 0:06:53 | 0:06:55 | |
Wow, listen to that! Argh! | 0:06:55 | 0:06:58 | |
It seems to fit Kolkata so well, that noise, and these colours. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
They just, sort of, work. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
I remember visiting as a child, actually. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:12 | |
I do remember everything was, like, in super-colour. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:16 | |
And then you'd go back to England and it would just be drab, | 0:07:16 | 0:07:19 | |
brown and grey. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
I am off to try and look into the letter that Mum showed me, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
which was the letter from Tagore to Nares. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
Maybe that letter can shed a bit more light | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
on what my great-grandfather was about. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
In the early 20th century, | 0:07:37 | 0:07:39 | |
when Rabindranath Tagore and Nares lived in Kolkata, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:43 | |
the city was the capital of British India. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:46 | |
It lies at the heart of the ancient state of Bengal, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:50 | |
which was hugely influential across India. | 0:07:50 | 0:07:54 | |
-Hello, I'm Shamapita. -Hi there, I'm Sunetra. | 0:07:54 | 0:07:59 | |
Sunetra has come to Tagore's family home, now a museum, | 0:07:59 | 0:08:03 | |
to meet literary historian Doctor Shamapita Mitra. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:08 | |
So, I've got this letter, which my mum gave me, | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
which is a letter from Tagore to my great-grandfather. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:14 | |
My mum's grandfather. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:17 | |
Tagore seems to be repenting that he has hurt Nares Chandra Sen-Gupta. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:24 | |
What seems to have been the problem | 0:08:24 | 0:08:26 | |
is that they had a series of letters exchanged, | 0:08:26 | 0:08:31 | |
and there was a debate about what literature could talk about, | 0:08:31 | 0:08:37 | |
and what it could not talk about. | 0:08:37 | 0:08:40 | |
Oh, like taboos? And what's not taboo? | 0:08:40 | 0:08:42 | |
-Yeah. -So, give me an example of something | 0:08:42 | 0:08:45 | |
that my great-grandfather would have written | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
that Tagore would never have written. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
-I mean, did he talk about sex? -He did. He did. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
And here I have a short story, | 0:08:52 | 0:08:56 | |
which is about a widow who does not lead a very conventional, | 0:08:56 | 0:09:03 | |
way of life. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
Like, the ordinary widows. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
It's quite scandalous. It's quite scandalous. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
"If my hunger remains unsatisfied | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
"even after having consumed this noble man..." | 0:09:11 | 0:09:14 | |
This is borderline X-rated kind of stuff. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
I mean, I don't know whether I'd have been allowed to read this, | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
-you know, in my mother's house. -In the 1920s, this is quite radical. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:26 | |
-Yeah. -It's not just in his fiction that he is talking about women, | 0:09:26 | 0:09:31 | |
he was also taking up this point in his essays. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:36 | |
"A housewife cannot be satisfied with little learning, | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
"we need to educate our housewives and mothers | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
"if we desire to make our country glorious. | 0:09:40 | 0:09:43 | |
"We need regular education, and the longer the training process is, | 0:09:43 | 0:09:47 | |
"the better." So, he was paving the way for women's rights before, | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
I suppose, people were even discussing women's rights. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
These kinds of writings did make an impact. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:59 | |
Not too many people would talk about the fact that women were equal, | 0:09:59 | 0:10:06 | |
in terms of their rights, in terms of the choices that they could make. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:12 | |
That women too were human beings. | 0:10:12 | 0:10:15 | |
I felt quite proud to hear that my great-grandfather was a bit daring, | 0:10:21 | 0:10:26 | |
and he was going away from the norm. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:27 | |
And I think I recognise a bit of that in me. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:30 | |
I'm not your average anything. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
I don't think I fit in a box quite as easily as some people do. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:39 | |
So, it really resonated with me, that. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:41 | |
Sunetra has discovered that her great-grandfather was a maverick, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:50 | |
who was using his writing to break new ground. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
To try and learn more about the impact of his work, | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
she's come to the Lake School For Girls, | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
which was set up by one of Nares' daughters. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:02 | |
She's come to meet Doctor Jayanta Sen-Gupta. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:06 | |
-Hello. I'm Sunetra. -Hello. I'm Jayanta. So nice to meet you. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:08 | |
Nice to meet you, too. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
Actually, did you know your mum came here? | 0:11:10 | 0:11:12 | |
-My mum? -Yes. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:14 | |
-My mum?! -Yes. -I thought she went to a different school. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:19 | |
Don't tell my mum I forgot that! | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
When Nares was living in Kolkata, at the start of the 20th century, | 0:11:21 | 0:11:25 | |
the city was part of British India, | 0:11:25 | 0:11:27 | |
which stretched all away from what is now Pakistan through India | 0:11:27 | 0:11:32 | |
and Bangladesh to Myanmar. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:34 | |
But people in India were increasingly looking to a future | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
free from British rule. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:41 | |
This Nationalist Movement was particularly strong in Bengal, | 0:11:41 | 0:11:45 | |
Nares' home state. | 0:11:45 | 0:11:47 | |
To try to stifle it, in 1905, the British divided Bengal in two. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:53 | |
Hoping the majority Muslims in East Bengal | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
and the majority Hindus in the West | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
would rise up against each other, rather than Britain. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:03 | |
That is clearly driven by a motive to drive a religious wedge | 0:12:03 | 0:12:07 | |
between Hindus and Muslims, and to undermine the Nationalist Movement. | 0:12:07 | 0:12:12 | |
And it is against that decision to partition Bengal in 1905 | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
that your great-grandfather translated a very dangerous book, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
the Bengali version is banned by the British. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
And we're lucky to have an original copy of this translation. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
Of his translation? Of that book? | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
-Of his translation, yeah. -Oh, wow. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
This is it. The novel is actually about one of the first rebellions | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
-against the British imperial rule. -A real one or a fictional one? | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
A real one. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:41 | |
It also has Vande Mataram, which is India's national song. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
Oh, yeah. | 0:12:44 | 0:12:45 | |
It's translated into English for the first time | 0:12:45 | 0:12:47 | |
and also appears in this book. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:49 | |
"Hail, thee, mother. | 0:12:49 | 0:12:50 | |
"To her, I bow..." | 0:12:50 | 0:12:52 | |
It's an ode to your motherland, | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
which the British considered to be extremely dangerous. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
It eventually comes to be sung by other nationalists | 0:12:57 | 0:13:02 | |
across the Indian subcontinent. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
And this song, sort of, was the anthem to that movement? | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
-Yes, it's the answer some of the Nationalist Movement. -OK. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:13 | |
Nares had translated a song | 0:13:13 | 0:13:14 | |
which became a rallying cry for Indian independence, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:18 | |
and by translating it, he'd made it available | 0:13:18 | 0:13:21 | |
to a far wider audience, not just Bengali speakers. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
Instead of pitting Indian against Indian, | 0:13:25 | 0:13:28 | |
the Partition of Bengal had backfired, | 0:13:28 | 0:13:31 | |
fanning the flames of the Nationalist Movement. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
And if you read this, especially here, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:37 | |
you will see a reference to the singer of the national song, | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
-Vande Mataram. -Oh, yeah. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
"Official orders were issued that no procession could be allowed and that | 0:13:43 | 0:13:47 | |
"no organised shouting of the national song, Vande Mataram, | 0:13:47 | 0:13:53 | |
"or any other such cry should be permitted. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:55 | |
"One man was mercilessly beaten and thrown into a tank, | 0:13:55 | 0:13:58 | |
"another was felled senseless, bystanders in lanes were also | 0:13:58 | 0:14:02 | |
"assaulted by the police, who made a attacks upon them with clubs." | 0:14:02 | 0:14:07 | |
So, given the way that the police treated people | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
who dared to sing this song on the streets, would you then say it was | 0:14:10 | 0:14:15 | |
either foolish, or extremely brave, for somebody, to at that same time, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:19 | |
be translating the song. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:21 | |
Absolutely. Absolutely. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:23 | |
This is a book which is, you know, | 0:14:23 | 0:14:28 | |
a very dangerous book to touch, | 0:14:28 | 0:14:31 | |
at that time, and he's not only touching it, he's translating it. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
So, he's addressing a wider-reading public, | 0:14:35 | 0:14:38 | |
who are getting the message of that book for the first time, | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
because of his translation. So, it's a huge, huge risk to take. | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
-It's high treason. -I knew he was a feminist, | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
and he was very much into women's rights and education, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
but I didn't realise he was at the forefront of politics as well. | 0:14:50 | 0:14:54 | |
He was very, very politically active. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:57 | |
He was in the thick of it. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
-I'd like to see in here, something. -OK. Yes? | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
Today, India's national song, Vande Mataram, | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
the rallying cry for nationalists originally translated by Nares, | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
is still sung at assembly in schools across the country. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
Wow. Guest of honour, I feel quite... | 0:15:15 | 0:15:17 | |
-Yes, you are. -I'm very flattered. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:21 | |
# Vande Mataram | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
# Vande Mataram | 0:15:25 | 0:15:31 | |
# Sujalam suphalam | 0:15:31 | 0:15:37 | |
# Malayajasitalam... # | 0:15:37 | 0:15:43 | |
Seeing the kids all lined up, looking pristine | 0:15:43 | 0:15:48 | |
and singing that song, it got me a little bit. | 0:15:48 | 0:15:51 | |
# Vande mataram... # | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
It, sort of, symbolises a lot. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:58 | |
# Subhra jyotsnam | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
# Pulakita yaminim | 0:16:01 | 0:16:06 | |
# Phula kusumita | 0:16:06 | 0:16:10 | |
# Drumadalasobhinim | 0:16:10 | 0:16:15 | |
# Suhasinim. # | 0:16:15 | 0:16:21 | |
Wow. That's amazing. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
-Wasn't it? -Thank you. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:25 | |
Thank you. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:27 | |
I was already proud to say, "Guess what, my great-grandfather was | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
"something to do with women's rights," but now, I'm finding out | 0:16:31 | 0:16:35 | |
that he brought the message to nationalists that it was OK | 0:16:35 | 0:16:39 | |
to fight against the British Empire. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
And I'm really quite humbled to be part of that, | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
somewhere along the line, yeah. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:49 | |
Six years after the Partition of Bengal, in 1911, | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
the British finally gave in and reunited the state. | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
Nares' goal had been achieved. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
But Nares had a younger sister, called Charuprobha, | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
who was also involved in the Nationalist Movement. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
Sunetra knows from her mother that Charuprobha | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
went to jail for her beliefs. | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
And she's managed to get hold of her biography. | 0:17:25 | 0:17:28 | |
By the 1920s, support for the Nationalist Movement was becoming | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
increasingly difficult for Britain to contain. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
Mahatma Gandhi was emerging as an inspirational leader | 0:17:38 | 0:17:41 | |
in the movement. | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
So, "Charuprobha met Gandhi for the first time in the beginning of 1931. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:53 | |
"She later recorded this meeting in writing." | 0:17:53 | 0:17:57 | |
Oh, wow. "A long nurtured dream of mine was fulfilled, | 0:17:57 | 0:18:02 | |
"when we entered the room we saw him sitting on the floor, | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
"a vision of absolute grace. | 0:18:06 | 0:18:09 | |
"We all touched his feet, which is a show of respect for the elderly. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:13 | |
"He greeted us all with a smile on his face. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:16 | |
"I had a request for Gandhiji, and was wondering how to initiate that." | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
She's brave, wow. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
"When the time came for us to leave | 0:18:23 | 0:18:25 | |
"I solicited my appeal to him, 'Bapuji, I have a request for you,' | 0:18:25 | 0:18:30 | |
" 'if while at work, I have any question | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
" 'or face difficulties to take decisions, may I write to you?' | 0:18:32 | 0:18:37 | |
"He gracefully nodded his head and said, 'Of course.' | 0:18:37 | 0:18:41 | |
"It was beyond my imagination that I would, without much of an effort, | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
"receive such an award." | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
She's got guts, to meet Gandhi is a big deal. | 0:18:48 | 0:18:54 | |
It's great. It's such an honour. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
To find out whether her great-great aunt Charuprobha | 0:19:00 | 0:19:05 | |
ever took Gandhi up on his offer of advice... | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
..Sunetra has come to meet Sarmistha Dutta Gupta, | 0:19:10 | 0:19:13 | |
an expert on the role of women in India's independence movement. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:18 | |
Hi, Sarmistha. Shall we sit down? I've got some questions to ask you. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
-Of course, yeah, yeah. -So, I've got some information that I found out | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
about my great-grandfather's sister, Charuprobha Sen-Gupta. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:29 | |
I think one of the most amazing paragraphs I read was about the fact | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
that she actually met Gandhi. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:34 | |
And I'm intrigued to know, did she get in touch with him again? | 0:19:34 | 0:19:37 | |
-Do you know? -Absolutely. | 0:19:37 | 0:19:39 | |
She did. They were in touch through letters, and in person, also. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:45 | |
She met Gandhi a couple of times more after that, | 0:19:45 | 0:19:49 | |
-just look at this photograph. -No way, is that her? | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
-Yes. -It wasn't just a couple of letters then? | 0:19:52 | 0:19:55 | |
-She actually met him again and...? -Yes, yes. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:57 | |
I can't believe that is somebody in my family. | 0:19:57 | 0:20:01 | |
Honestly, I could have joked about this with friends and family, about, | 0:20:01 | 0:20:05 | |
"Oh, I wonder if I'm connected in any way to Gandhi." | 0:20:05 | 0:20:09 | |
And here I am, actually seeing my great-grandfather's sister... | 0:20:09 | 0:20:13 | |
Absolutely, let me show you, | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
there were many letters that Gandhi and Charuprobha exchanged. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:21 | |
-No! -This was written some time in 1934. -This is a letter?! | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
Yeah. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:26 | |
"My dear Charuprobha, nonsense. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:28 | |
"You must not give way to despair like that, | 0:20:28 | 0:20:30 | |
"let us work knowingly and voluntarily, not for self, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:34 | |
"but for the whole of humanity. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
"And we shall surely see God face-to-face. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
"This don't write doleful letters to me, | 0:20:39 | 0:20:42 | |
"just begin the service that easily comes to you, | 0:20:42 | 0:20:45 | |
"and you will soon expand and find joy. | 0:20:45 | 0:20:49 | |
"Love, Bapu." | 0:20:49 | 0:20:50 | |
-He was like, mentoring her. -Absolutely. -Wasn't he? | 0:20:50 | 0:20:53 | |
It blows me away, slightly. How have you found these? | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
Where have these letters been? | 0:20:57 | 0:20:59 | |
They are all preserved in the National Archives of India. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:02 | |
Charuprobha, she had emerged as quite a powerful local leader. | 0:21:02 | 0:21:06 | |
She's very much out there in the public sphere. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
Giving speeches, taking part in nationalist marches. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
And also going to jail. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:16 | |
I keep forgetting she went to jail, | 0:21:16 | 0:21:18 | |
because there's just so much more about this whole story. | 0:21:18 | 0:21:23 | |
She was arrested three times, actually. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
This is a newspaper announcement of her first arrest. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:32 | |
"Lady arrested. Charuprobha Sen, | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
"a prominent lady worker of the district, | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
"was arrested by the police." | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
She was arrested for, you know, giving what the police called, | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
"Treason inciting speech." | 0:21:45 | 0:21:47 | |
And then she was arrested twice later, | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
the next time was in 1932, when, actually, | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
she was imprisoned for nearly 16 months. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
-What? 16 months? -Yeah, absolutely. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
This is a pointer to the kind of sacrifices and the challenges | 0:22:00 | 0:22:04 | |
that, you know, Charuprobha and women like her, | 0:22:04 | 0:22:07 | |
who participated in the Nationalist Movement, | 0:22:07 | 0:22:10 | |
actually had to take on themselves, | 0:22:10 | 0:22:13 | |
service to the nation was more important to her | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
than anything else. | 0:22:16 | 0:22:19 | |
After Charuprobha had devoted decades of her life | 0:22:19 | 0:22:22 | |
to the Nationalist Movement, | 0:22:22 | 0:22:24 | |
in 1947, India finally won its independence from Britain. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:29 | |
You can take a look at this photograph, | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
-it's actually quite late in life. -Oh, wow. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:36 | |
After India's independence, she was very active, | 0:22:37 | 0:22:42 | |
always working for social change. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:44 | |
She looks like a strong woman. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:46 | |
-She does. -She'd fight her own corner. -Yeah. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:50 | |
I don't know if everyone realises, | 0:22:52 | 0:22:54 | |
but being connected in any way to Gandhi is really sacred, | 0:22:54 | 0:22:59 | |
and that's what I take from this, | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
I had a great grand aunt, who was so important | 0:23:01 | 0:23:04 | |
that she was connected to Gandhi, | 0:23:04 | 0:23:06 | |
and a great-grandfather, who was her brother, | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
and who did so much, and it just makes me feel | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
like I'm such a small piece of this big puzzle. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
To see if she can find out more about Nures or his sister, | 0:23:18 | 0:23:22 | |
Sunetra has come to meet a distant cousin, Sirkanya, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
whose mother kept a treasure trove of family memorabilia. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
How are you? Tell me where we're going? | 0:23:28 | 0:23:30 | |
-We're going to Santiniketan. -Yay! -And we're taking a train. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
Really? It's been, like, 30 years since I've been on a train. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
-30 years! -To Santiniketan. -And Santiniketan, too? -All right. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
I'm so glad you're my tour guide. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:42 | |
Sirkanya is taking Sunetra north of Kolkata to Santiniketan, | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
to the house where Sirkanya's mother, | 0:23:46 | 0:23:48 | |
one of Nares' daughters, used to live. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:51 | |
-Look at the smile. -Oh, no. I wish I didn't. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:09 | |
What was I thinking? | 0:24:09 | 0:24:11 | |
Look at you, with your glasses. I remember those really big glasses. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
That was probably the last time I went to Santiniketan. I was 15. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:21 | |
Someone's coming along. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:23 | |
I want to see him make it. Will you make one for me? | 0:24:23 | 0:24:26 | |
It smells divine. | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
This is the house. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
Yes! | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
My mother left the house in 2008. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
-Mm-hm. -And she's got a lot of old stuff from the family. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:43 | |
Ten rupees. Look at that. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:49 | |
So, tomorrow morning, can we go there and have a little look? | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
-We'll go there. -Fantastic. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:56 | |
So, do you recognise any of this? | 0:25:00 | 0:25:02 | |
-This is it. -Yeah. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:03 | |
-We're straight there. Oh! -This is it. | 0:25:03 | 0:25:07 | |
-Yeah, it has built up a lot more. -Yeah. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
No-one has lived in the house since Sirkanya's mother passed away, | 0:25:12 | 0:25:16 | |
leaving her family archives stored here. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
When you're older. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
-That's right. -I thought, when I was little, this was huge. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
-OK, do you remember this room? -I think I do, slightly. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:30 | |
Part of me wants to say, "Yes, I do." | 0:25:30 | 0:25:32 | |
But I don't, not 100%. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:35 | |
OK. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:36 | |
Wow, look at these books. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:40 | |
I mean, it's like we've walked into a museum. I mean, look at that. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:44 | |
Eight years it's been empty. | 0:25:44 | 0:25:46 | |
We come, off and on. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
-That's Nares again. -Nares again. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
So, where is this box of goodies? | 0:25:53 | 0:25:55 | |
OK, all right, let's see. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:58 | |
I know she's very organised. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:00 | |
I was expecting a cupboard of saris and jewellery, | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
maybe a few books and stuff, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
but this is the most organised admin library ever. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
I know! Here are the ones that say Baba Ma. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
OK. Oh, wow. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:20 | |
So, look at this. | 0:26:20 | 0:26:22 | |
So, this is a duplicate copy of the passport. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
Maybe have a little look at what it says. | 0:26:26 | 0:26:28 | |
It says, "Mr Nares Chandra Sen-Gupta. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:31 | |
"Accompanied by his wife, Mrs Labanya Prabha Sen-Gupta. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:36 | |
"Maiden name, Baskshi." | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
Oh, my God. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:43 | |
I've never seen a picture of him this young, | 0:26:43 | 0:26:46 | |
and I've never seen a picture of her. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
It's funny, because I didn't have any idea what she might look like. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:53 | |
So, hang on, let me see this. Place and date of birth, Kanthalia? | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
Kanthalia. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:58 | |
So, she came from Kanthalia. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
-And he was from Bansi. -Bansi. Right, but look at this, | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
-visible distinguishing marks... -What's the visible distinguishing? | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
So, his visible distinguishing marks. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:10 | |
-Read it out to me. -"Black spot on left side of forehead." | 0:27:10 | 0:27:13 | |
-OK. -And her distinguishing visible marks was, | 0:27:13 | 0:27:17 | |
"Mole, left forearm." | 0:27:17 | 0:27:19 | |
-OK. -And he was five foot ten, and she was four foot nine. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:24 | |
I think I've heard this from my mother, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
she used to sit on the chair and her legs wouldn't reach the ground. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:31 | |
-And that photograph's incredible. -That's amazing. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
Incredible. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:35 | |
-I like that. OK, let's keep going. What else is there? -That's amazing. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
Let's see. So, this is all falling apart, | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
so we have to be very careful. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:43 | |
-What's that, letters, 30 letters? -This is very sweet... | 0:27:43 | 0:27:48 | |
-Special. -..because she's written, "My dear Babu, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:53 | |
"So, I cannot tell you | 0:27:53 | 0:27:55 | |
"how much I miss you, even being away from you, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:59 | |
"like, these few days." | 0:27:59 | 0:28:02 | |
That might be early on in their relationship. | 0:28:02 | 0:28:04 | |
No, I think this is not that early on, | 0:28:04 | 0:28:07 | |
because they were like that all through, apparently. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:10 | |
Really? You just don't think of your great-grandparents being so romantic | 0:28:10 | 0:28:16 | |
-and loving and... -They were very loving. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
Maybe she was the impetus for him to understand how women | 0:28:18 | 0:28:23 | |
-should be treated, and the force behind him. -It's possible. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:28 | |
Yes. | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
Take a look at this. | 0:28:30 | 0:28:32 | |
"Lower primary scholarship pass certificate." | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
This is a school certificate. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
-1895. -1895. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:41 | |
-Does that says, "son of"? -"Daughter of." | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
So, they've crossed that out, and put, "daughter of." | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
-Of? -"Bipin Bihari Bakshi." | 0:28:47 | 0:28:49 | |
Bipin Bihari Bakshi. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
So, that's the name of my great-great grandfather? | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
-Yes. -And pupil of Kanthalia Primary School. | 0:28:55 | 0:29:01 | |
I noticed that on the passport as well it said, | 0:29:01 | 0:29:05 | |
"Birthplace, Kanthalia." | 0:29:05 | 0:29:08 | |
Where is that? | 0:29:08 | 0:29:10 | |
This is in, now, Bangladesh. | 0:29:10 | 0:29:13 | |
That is in Bangladesh? | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
So, she was from, what is now Bangladesh, | 0:29:15 | 0:29:18 | |
-but was then part of India. -That was all Bengal. | 0:29:18 | 0:29:23 | |
Were they both from Bangladesh? | 0:29:23 | 0:29:24 | |
They are both from Bangladesh, because even here, | 0:29:24 | 0:29:27 | |
it says, "Bansi." | 0:29:27 | 0:29:29 | |
And that's also in Bangladesh. | 0:29:29 | 0:29:33 | |
So, the whole family, really, came from that side of India at the time. | 0:29:33 | 0:29:38 | |
-Right. -So, if we wanted to find out who she was as a youngster, | 0:29:38 | 0:29:42 | |
or who Bipin Bihari was, we'd have to go to Kanthalia. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:47 | |
-Kanthalia. Yes. -Kanthalia. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:51 | |
Sunetra has discovered that her great-grandmother, Nares' wife, | 0:29:51 | 0:29:55 | |
was called Labanya, and her great-great grandfather | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
was Bipin Bihari Bakshi. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
My mind is whirling. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:07 | |
I came thinking I was going to be discussing | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
maybe one member of my family, finding out a bit more about it, | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
but now I've got a face, of a great-grandmother | 0:30:13 | 0:30:16 | |
that I didn't even, I didn't even think about. | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
It would be nice to find out more, to see how much further we can go. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:24 | |
Maybe we can trace Bipin, my great-great grandfather. | 0:30:24 | 0:30:29 | |
Kanthalia, where Sunetra's great-grandmother was born | 0:30:36 | 0:30:39 | |
and went to school, is a village in Bangladesh. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
A couple of hours drive from the capital, Dhaka. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
HORNS BLARE | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
Oh, my God! | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
Nerves of steel to drive around here. | 0:31:03 | 0:31:06 | |
We are actually getting hit by cycles. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
What's really striking me is just the stark difference | 0:31:09 | 0:31:16 | |
between where I was born, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:17 | |
and where my great grandparents were born. | 0:31:17 | 0:31:20 | |
It's just like we're planets away. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:23 | |
Kanthalia is home to around 600 Bangladeshi families. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:35 | |
But when Sunetra's great-grandmother was at school here, | 0:31:35 | 0:31:37 | |
Bangladesh was known as East Bengal, and was part of British India. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:42 | |
It's so, sort of, simple, and very basic. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:50 | |
Sunetra has arranged to meet historian Doctor Asher Islam, | 0:31:50 | 0:31:54 | |
to see if she can find out anything more | 0:31:54 | 0:31:56 | |
about her great-grandmother, Labanya. | 0:31:56 | 0:31:58 | |
-Hello. -Hello. -You must be Asher. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:00 | |
Yes, I am. And you must be Sunetra. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:02 | |
-Yes. -It's so nice to meet you. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
So nice to meet you. I can't tell you what this feels like. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
It is a bit of a dream, a dreamlike scenario for me, | 0:32:08 | 0:32:12 | |
to be standing where, I think, my great-grandmother was brought up. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
So, I've got something I want to show you. | 0:32:16 | 0:32:19 | |
I never thought I'd be holding, | 0:32:19 | 0:32:21 | |
but it's my great-grandmother's school certificate. | 0:32:21 | 0:32:25 | |
Oh, my goodness. | 0:32:25 | 0:32:26 | |
-This is so wonderful. -I know. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
And it says on here, you know, it's crossed out, "son of," | 0:32:28 | 0:32:32 | |
-and it's made, "daughter of." -"Daughter of," yes. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:34 | |
Yes, because in the second half of the 19th century, | 0:32:34 | 0:32:37 | |
it was not normal for daughters to go to school. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
I can tell from the certificate that she came from a very liberal family, | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
a very enlightened family. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
How would you know that? | 0:32:46 | 0:32:48 | |
Because this is proof that her father | 0:32:48 | 0:32:52 | |
felt that girls should have an education. | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
Wow. That's been a theme, you know. | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
That's been such a theme in my journey and discovery. | 0:32:57 | 0:33:00 | |
From the very name, Bipin Behari Gupta Bakshi, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:05 | |
the very title says that, you came from an aristocratic family. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:10 | |
This Gupta Baskshi title is aristocratic title. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:12 | |
-No! -It's the title of the landowners. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:16 | |
This land document, | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
it shows the area of the homestead of the Bakshi family. | 0:33:18 | 0:33:23 | |
So, there are one, two, three, four houses, | 0:33:23 | 0:33:27 | |
which comes to the total area of six acres, | 0:33:27 | 0:33:31 | |
and a family which lived in a homestead of six acres | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
would have hundreds of acres of cultivated land. | 0:33:35 | 0:33:38 | |
So, what you are saying is, if you have six acres of homeland, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:41 | |
you'd have far more around you. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
Hundreds and hundreds of acres of farming surrounding that house. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
Like farming? I see. | 0:33:48 | 0:33:49 | |
-Wow! -It shows that they were in a big landed family. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
They were a big-landed aristocracy. | 0:33:54 | 0:33:56 | |
That's something I didn't know, for sure. | 0:33:56 | 0:33:58 | |
They were, we call it, "zaminder." | 0:33:58 | 0:34:01 | |
The landlords of the homestead. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:03 | |
This is the name, Bipin Bihari Gupta Bakshi. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
This is your great-great grandfather and there are five names here, | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
who are the sons of Bipin Bihari Gupta Bakshi. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:16 | |
The first son is Jagadish Chandra Gupta Bakshi. | 0:34:16 | 0:34:19 | |
So, these are Labanya's brothers? | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
Her brothers. | 0:34:22 | 0:34:24 | |
Sunetra has discovered that her great-great grandfather, | 0:34:24 | 0:34:27 | |
Bipin Bihari Bakshi was the landlord of Kanthalia Village. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
And his eldest son, Labanya's brother, was Jagadish - | 0:34:31 | 0:34:35 | |
Sunetra's great-great uncle. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
The house would be the best house in the village, | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
the best house in the surrounding villages. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:44 | |
They would have had clean drinking water. | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
I get the picture. | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
They were treated very well. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
They were the kings of the area. | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
You know, a zaminder is actually the king of this little area. | 0:34:56 | 0:35:01 | |
-No. -Yes. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:02 | |
And you can get a glimpse of how good a lifestyle they had, | 0:35:02 | 0:35:07 | |
this is an article about your great-grandmother, Labanya, | 0:35:07 | 0:35:12 | |
wrote in around 1920. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
This is her memories of her childhood. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:19 | |
-No way. -Yes. -The one thing I'd really like to know... | 0:35:19 | 0:35:22 | |
Gosh, it's making me quite emotional. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:24 | |
..is that I'd like to have known what she was like. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
Because I'm all about emotions, and I deal with emotions as an actor. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
-These are her very words. -I was hoping I'd find something | 0:35:30 | 0:35:33 | |
that would, at least, give me an idea of what she was like. | 0:35:33 | 0:35:37 | |
This is gold dust to me. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
-It is. -And to my mum and to so many other people, I can't tell you. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
-I'll save that, thank you. -You're welcome. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:46 | |
"Our house is next to the river, there's a place for guests to stay. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
"That's why all travellers go via our river. | 0:36:01 | 0:36:04 | |
"The boats on the river looked like reflections of the sky on the water. | 0:36:07 | 0:36:11 | |
"The boats are packed with people, families, men, women and children. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:16 | |
"One can hear them singing, playing instruments and chanting hymns. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:20 | |
"It is a pleasure to watch them have fun. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
"Young boys and girls get wet in the rain and sing monsoon songs. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:30 | |
"Girls steer some of the boats themselves. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:33 | |
"I've seen them rowing the boats with oars. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
"In the entire year, | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
"we used to look forward to this happy time of the year. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:42 | |
"Now, so many days pass by. Where does one find joy of that kind?" | 0:36:42 | 0:36:48 | |
Sunetra has come to meet Narayan, | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
one of the oldest people in Kanthalia, | 0:37:01 | 0:37:04 | |
to see if he remembers anything about her family. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
-Nomoshkar. -Nomoshkar. -Nomoshkar, nomoshkar. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:10 | |
-Hello. -Apni kemon achhen? | 0:37:10 | 0:37:12 | |
-I'm very well. -How are you? -Fine, fine. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:17 | |
My mother's grandmother was Labanya Prabha. | 0:37:17 | 0:37:21 | |
And Labanya's father was Bipin Bihari Bakshi. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
Did you ever know them at all? | 0:37:25 | 0:37:28 | |
That's my great-great-grandfather's name. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:34 | |
You don't look old enough to be able to remember him. | 0:37:34 | 0:37:36 | |
How old are you? | 0:37:36 | 0:37:39 | |
-92. -Wow! | 0:37:39 | 0:37:42 | |
Do you think you ever met Labanya? | 0:37:49 | 0:37:53 | |
It's amazing that I've found somebody... | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
You feel like you know me. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
-I understand, yes. -You understand? | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
I am understanding. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
So, they did treat you well? | 0:38:35 | 0:38:38 | |
Uh-huh. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
Sunetra has discovered that when her great-great-grandfather | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
Bipin Bihari died, after Labanya had moved to Kolkata, | 0:38:48 | 0:38:51 | |
Jagadish became the landlord of Kanthalia. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:54 | |
So, where exactly did they live around here? | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
Do you know? | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
It's still here now? | 0:39:03 | 0:39:05 | |
Yes. Will you take me? | 0:39:08 | 0:39:10 | |
That would be so nice, thank you. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:12 | |
You lead the way. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
This is great. | 0:39:14 | 0:39:16 | |
He's bringing a stick. OK. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:36 | |
That's reassuring. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:39 | |
OK. I'm coming. I'm right behind you. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:52 | |
Oh, wow. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:03 | |
It must have been so beautiful. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:11 | |
I can see a tiny bit of cornicing, | 0:40:11 | 0:40:13 | |
which suggests there was some incredible carving on the ceiling. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:19 | |
It sounds like this was a really, opulent, grand, special, | 0:40:41 | 0:40:45 | |
big home where everybody came. | 0:40:45 | 0:40:48 | |
And a temple, like this, to be built. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
That was the entrance? That was how you got in? | 0:41:05 | 0:41:09 | |
A huge room there. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:13 | |
It makes me feel like I must be walking in the space that | 0:41:24 | 0:41:28 | |
Bipin and Labanya and her brothers and sisters all walked in, | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
and maybe even my grandmother may have visited here with them | 0:41:32 | 0:41:35 | |
and been in this house. | 0:41:35 | 0:41:37 | |
Ah? | 0:41:37 | 0:41:39 | |
Let's see. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:43 | |
I've never been a brave explorer. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:47 | |
But this, I want to walk up the stairs. | 0:41:47 | 0:41:50 | |
I might be the last member of the family | 0:41:50 | 0:41:52 | |
that gets to walk up these stairs. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:55 | |
How amazing, for me to be able to get up here and, you know, | 0:42:01 | 0:42:06 | |
see where they used to live. It's huge. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
It's absolutely huge. And this is just the bit that I can see. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
Oh, wow. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:20 | |
Just by the river. | 0:42:30 | 0:42:32 | |
I don't even know what I've just walked through, I feel such... | 0:42:36 | 0:42:41 | |
such a rush of history and walking back in time, almost, | 0:42:41 | 0:42:46 | |
going through the house that is obviously decrepit, and so walls, | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
but used to be palatial. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
And a house which entertained everyone in this area. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:55 | |
I'm getting the feeling that, you know, | 0:42:55 | 0:42:58 | |
my family was in some ways so revered, so kind, | 0:42:58 | 0:43:01 | |
and they helped each other. It just made me, | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
I had a bit of a revelation of my own, | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
which is that I didn't really like talking about the fact | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
that my grandmother died in a really horrific way. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:12 | |
She was cooking, and her sari caught fire, and she died. | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
And the whole family, nobody really talks about that, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:19 | |
but she was really special to a lot of people. | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
That was just my grandmother. So, I never looked beyond her. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
And I think, if she knew that I was walking | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
through her grandfather's house, she would just be... | 0:43:29 | 0:43:34 | |
I think that would just make her so happy, and my mum. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:37 | |
So, why is it like this now? | 0:44:01 | 0:44:03 | |
The seat of Bangladesh's independence was sown | 0:44:17 | 0:44:20 | |
when India became independent in 1947, | 0:44:20 | 0:44:23 | |
as two separate countries - India and Pakistan. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:29 | |
But Pakistan itself was split into two provinces, 1,000 miles apart. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:34 | |
And today's Bangladesh was known as East Pakistan. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:38 | |
By 1971, when Sunetra's great-great uncle Jagadish | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
was master of the family house, | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
politicians in East Pakistan were calling for independence. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
THEY CHANT IN OWN LANGUAGE | 0:44:48 | 0:44:50 | |
In response, West Pakistan launched a brutal war. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
Sunetra has come to Bangladesh's National Martyrs Memorial | 0:45:01 | 0:45:05 | |
to find out about the war. | 0:45:05 | 0:45:07 | |
Let's sit down, and I'll show you some documentary evidence | 0:45:07 | 0:45:10 | |
-of what actually happened. -OK, yeah. | 0:45:10 | 0:45:13 | |
She's meeting Aly Zarker, | 0:45:13 | 0:45:15 | |
who helped to set up Bangladesh's Liberation War Museum. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
And this is a huge article that appeared in the Sunday Times, | 0:45:19 | 0:45:24 | |
-June 20th 1971. -OK. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:27 | |
And you will get a brief idea about what it was like when we were being | 0:45:27 | 0:45:32 | |
pursued by the Pakistani soldiers. | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
"I witnessed, at close quarters, the extent of the killing. | 0:45:35 | 0:45:39 | |
"I heard the screams of men, bludgeoned to death. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:42 | |
"I have witnessed the brutality of kill and burn missions. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:46 | |
"I was repeatedly told by senior military and civil officers | 0:45:46 | 0:45:50 | |
in Dakar, 'We are determined to cleanse East Pakistan | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
" 'once and for all of the threat of secession, | 0:45:53 | 0:45:57 | |
" 'even if it means killing off two million people.' | 0:45:57 | 0:46:00 | |
"The West Pakistan army in East Bengal is doing exactly that, | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
"with a terrifying thoroughness." | 0:46:05 | 0:46:08 | |
Where were you living when this was going on? | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
Dakar. I left my home. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:12 | |
I was part of the freedom fighters. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:15 | |
-But you chose to fight for the right reasons? -I chose to fight, | 0:46:15 | 0:46:19 | |
because I feel like I didn't want to live like this, subjugated. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:23 | |
Do you know what astonishes me, is that we're talking about 1971. | 0:46:23 | 0:46:26 | |
That's, just like, that was only, like, back then. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:28 | |
It was just before I was born. | 0:46:28 | 0:46:31 | |
It just feels too recent to hear about something as gruesome | 0:46:31 | 0:46:35 | |
and harrowing as that. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:37 | |
Most of the ordinary soldiers were not enlightened or educated. | 0:46:37 | 0:46:40 | |
I was witness to at least one interrogation | 0:46:40 | 0:46:43 | |
of one Pakistani soldier, | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
and this guy said that they were instructed by their officers | 0:46:45 | 0:46:50 | |
to go ahead and kill all Bengalis. | 0:46:50 | 0:46:52 | |
-Muslims and Hindus? -Muslims and Hindus. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
And rape the women, | 0:46:55 | 0:46:57 | |
through whom they'd be able to raise a new generation of children, | 0:46:57 | 0:47:03 | |
who would be true Pakistanis. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:06 | |
They were asked to father children. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
-They were told to come over and...? -Actually rape. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:15 | |
Actually rape the women, and then keep the women, | 0:47:15 | 0:47:18 | |
-in the hope that they were pregnant? -In custody, yes. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:22 | |
They said that these will be true Pakistanis. | 0:47:22 | 0:47:24 | |
Let me show you another little document. | 0:47:24 | 0:47:27 | |
-This gets worse. -This is by Doctor Nilima Ibrahim. | 0:47:27 | 0:47:30 | |
She had written a book called The War Heroine Speaks. | 0:47:30 | 0:47:35 | |
In which you will find testimony of the war heroines | 0:47:35 | 0:47:39 | |
who had survived this onslaught. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
"One day, in the late afternoon, there was a scream. | 0:47:42 | 0:47:45 | |
"The military had arrived in our village. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
"We were pulled out from the bedroom, | 0:47:48 | 0:47:50 | |
"I've resisted their pulling as much as I could, | 0:47:50 | 0:47:53 | |
"with whatever little strength I had in my small body. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
"I changed places and captors many times since that afternoon. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
"Sometimes I was alone. | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
"Sometimes with other girls. | 0:48:06 | 0:48:08 | |
"Every two months, they would allow us to shower for their own needs. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:13 | |
"We were not allowed to wear saris. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
"It is not because they hate saris, | 0:48:15 | 0:48:17 | |
but that some girls used saris to commit suicide." | 0:48:17 | 0:48:22 | |
-Absolutely. -"I used to think, whichever way it goes, | 0:48:22 | 0:48:25 | |
"the war needed to come to an end, either I would be alive or dead. | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
"But I needed to be released from this state of living death." | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
It is still contested whether the extensive use of rape | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
was actively encouraged by some military leaders, | 0:48:43 | 0:48:47 | |
or was an unplanned horror during a brutal war. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
One which also saw Bangladeshi fighters commit atrocities. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:55 | |
But after nine months of fighting, | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
tens of thousands of women had been violated, | 0:48:58 | 0:49:01 | |
and hundreds of thousands of people, killed. | 0:49:01 | 0:49:04 | |
I feel quite gobsmacked, at how | 0:49:10 | 0:49:11 | |
I've never known about this war. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
It seems to be something so significant, | 0:49:14 | 0:49:16 | |
and yet I haven't barely even thought | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
about Bangladesh as independent, or how it came about. | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
I think I'm a bit nervous to find out about, | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
at the same time, is what the relation, | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
or the effect of that was on the family | 0:49:29 | 0:49:34 | |
that I belong to in Kanthalia. | 0:49:34 | 0:49:38 | |
Sunetra has returned to Kanthalia to try to find out what happened | 0:49:38 | 0:49:42 | |
to her great-great uncle Jagadish, | 0:49:42 | 0:49:44 | |
and his family when the Pakistani army reached the village. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:48 | |
She's managed to track down Sushil, | 0:49:49 | 0:49:51 | |
the son of the local Hindu priest during the war. | 0:49:51 | 0:49:55 | |
So, what happened in 1971, to this village? | 0:49:55 | 0:49:58 | |
Eight-years-old? | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
So, do you know what happened to Jagadish? | 0:50:42 | 0:50:45 | |
When your dad returned, did he have any news about what might have | 0:50:45 | 0:50:47 | |
happened to them? | 0:50:47 | 0:50:49 | |
That's not what I wanted to hear. | 0:51:21 | 0:51:23 | |
So... | 0:51:27 | 0:51:29 | |
given that we know that Jagadish died, | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
what happened to the rest of the family that were living here? | 0:51:32 | 0:51:36 | |
I understand. | 0:51:46 | 0:51:48 | |
Sunetra has discovered that in May 1971, | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
two months into Bangladesh's war of Independence, | 0:51:51 | 0:51:55 | |
Jagadish, her great-great uncle, was murdered. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:59 | |
I've, sort of, submerged myself into this family, | 0:52:01 | 0:52:05 | |
this distant part of the family that I never knew of, | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
I've sort of grown quite close to them, | 0:52:08 | 0:52:10 | |
and wanted to know little bits, here, there and everywhere, | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
and now I know how horrifically, sadly, wrongly | 0:52:12 | 0:52:17 | |
somebody died in our family, that... | 0:52:17 | 0:52:21 | |
it's a bit of a blow. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:23 | |
But Sunetra doesn't yet know what happened to Jagadish's wife, | 0:52:32 | 0:52:35 | |
who was also living in the family house. | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
She's come to meet Vashanti, | 0:52:40 | 0:52:42 | |
who was a maid for the women of the house in 1971. | 0:52:42 | 0:52:46 | |
Hello. I'm Sunetra. | 0:52:46 | 0:52:50 | |
I've come to sit with you, and ask you some questions. | 0:52:50 | 0:52:55 | |
On that night, when you heard the news that Jagadish had gone, | 0:52:55 | 0:53:00 | |
what was it like here for the family? How did you all react? | 0:53:00 | 0:53:04 | |
So, did they stay here during the fighting? | 0:53:26 | 0:53:28 | |
OK. So, they did escape? | 0:53:31 | 0:53:35 | |
What did this letter say? | 0:53:43 | 0:53:45 | |
So, has there been anybody from that side of the family that's ever | 0:53:59 | 0:54:02 | |
returned to the village? | 0:54:02 | 0:54:03 | |
Keu? Nobody? | 0:54:06 | 0:54:08 | |
Aw! | 0:54:11 | 0:54:13 | |
I'm so proud to be that person, to come and say hello, | 0:54:13 | 0:54:16 | |
and to thank you for everything that you've done for my family, | 0:54:16 | 0:54:21 | |
years, and years, and years ago. | 0:54:21 | 0:54:23 | |
Thank you. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:26 | |
Do you know, you can just feel something really serene in here. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:57 | |
I'm going to offer some flowers, | 0:54:57 | 0:54:59 | |
because I know that my mum would be very proud of me if I did that. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:03 | |
Today, I will feed you all, like my ancestors fed your families. | 0:55:35 | 0:55:39 | |
And I will also be very happy. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
We'll all be happy together. | 0:55:44 | 0:55:48 | |
Thank you. | 0:55:49 | 0:55:50 | |
You are very welcome. | 0:55:50 | 0:55:52 | |
-Next, next. -Thank you. | 0:55:56 | 0:55:58 | |
You're welcome. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
Thank you, very, very thank you. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
Very, very thank you back. | 0:56:02 | 0:56:05 | |
This whole journey has been full of surprises, | 0:56:09 | 0:56:12 | |
I think I came blind, but curious. | 0:56:12 | 0:56:16 | |
Blind in a way that, I suppose, I'm quite ashamed to say, | 0:56:16 | 0:56:19 | |
because I was in complete denial | 0:56:19 | 0:56:22 | |
of my Bengali roots. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:25 | |
I think I was so keen to be a British girl, from Liverpool. | 0:56:25 | 0:56:31 | |
And I still am so proud of that, | 0:56:31 | 0:56:34 | |
but that was really what my identity began and ended with from me. | 0:56:34 | 0:56:38 | |
And now... | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
I couldn't be more Bengali. | 0:56:41 | 0:56:44 | |
I'm wearing Bengali clothes, I'm eating Bengali food. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:47 | |
I'm mixing with Bengali locals. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:49 | |
And I'm so very grateful. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:56 | |
I'm grateful to call myself Bengali, so I think... | 0:56:56 | 0:57:01 | |
I've got a new part to my identity - | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
thanks to everything I've learned. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:07 |