A Border of Life and Death


A Border of Life and Death

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The Health Minister says a dedicated fund

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to pay for cancer treatments

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won't be introduced in Wales.

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It is a scheme which is neither ethical,

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lacks clinical support

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and would deliver a lesser service to cancer patients in Wales.

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When Offa's Dyke becomes the line

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between life and death,

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we are witnessing a national scandal.

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Let's hear from Annie Mulholland.

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Annie Mulholland is living with terminal ovarian cancer.

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Annie Mulholland couldn't get Avastin on the NHS.

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Joining us now is Annie Mulholland.

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For nearly five years, I've been in the middle of a controversy

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over cancer care in Wales.

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I am Annie Mulholland,

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I have terminal ovarian cancer and,

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when my Welsh health board denied me the drug I needed

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and blocked access to clinical trials,

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I decided to campaign for fairer treatment.

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Like hundreds of others in Wales,

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I had to go to England to get the drug.

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Now, after treatment in a London hospital,

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I'm still going strong,

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living more years than anyone expected.

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But I don't have long left,

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so this is the story of my campaign

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for fairer care for cancer patients in Wales.

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Before I die, I'd like to see

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the end to the border between England and Wales

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being a matter of life and death.

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I live in Cardiff, I'm 62

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and I was diagnosed with terminal ovarian cancer in 2011 -

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so I had to retire from my job in education to undergo the treatment.

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I had surgery, chemotherapy,

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and I assumed I was having the best possible care -

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then I found out I was being denied a drug I needed.

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It was being given to other women in Wales through other health boards

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on a case-by-case basis

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and it was guaranteed to all women who needed it in England,

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as it was on the Cancer Drug Fund List.

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When I started running a support group for ovarian cancer

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and I ended chatting to women

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from different health boards around this area,

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and we were comparing what we were told

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and what we were having,

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and then I became aware of a drug called Avastin.

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When I heard about it, I assumed,

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"Well, I just can't be medically suited to it,

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"otherwise somebody would have mentioned it."

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And I did a little bit of research into it

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and it did occur to me that...

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I was medically suited to this drug, but it hadn't been mentioned and,

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when I brought it up with my oncologist,

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it became clear, over a little while,

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that it hadn't been mentioned to me because,

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at that time,

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Cardiff and Vale National Health Board had never funded it.

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It does seem hugely discriminatory

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and, obviously, I was incredibly upset.

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But I said to my consultant

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in the very same meeting,

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"Can you tell me what I can have if I didn't live in Cardiff?"

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And she refused to be drawn on that one.

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I said, "At this moment, I don't live in Cardiff."

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So, she looked rather confused and said, "Where do you live?"

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I said, "I don't know yet, but I'll find out where I'm going to live."

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Because I just was not prepared to live in Cardiff,

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in Wales' capital city,

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and to be denied a drug that other women could have.

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I was never told in Wales why I couldn't have Avastin

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or why I couldn't go on a clinical trial and get it that way.

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So, I had no choice.

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If I wanted to live, I had to switch my treatment to England

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where the drug was instantly available.

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We're quite some way from Wales.

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We're in London, in Chelsea.

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This will be the first one

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of my third line of chemotherapy for ovarian cancer.

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I am afraid my hair's going to fall out in approximately 28 days.

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It comes out big time.

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I shall be in a chemo chair

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for about six or seven hours.

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I shall be well amused because I've got my art kit,

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so I'm going to do a bit of drawing today - keep myself amused.

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As I promised, I've had my chemotherapy

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and my hair's fallen out.

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Not all of it, I still have a little bit of the baby fluff there.

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And I knew I had to go like that.

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I'm married -

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I've been married for five years to Martin -

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and, between us, we have five daughters,

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we have three granddaughters

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and two grandsons.

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I received a phone call to confirm that,

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yes, it was ovarian cancer

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and they absolutely couldn't operate and take it out.

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The news that they were told was

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we had 12 to 18 months at best

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and I think, at that time,

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the family just went into, sort of, blind panic.

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Everyone is coping with things in their own different ways

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and sometimes that's quite hard to pull together.

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For Mum, obviously facing the news of her own death was very traumatic.

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But for her daughters and her granddaughters,

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the news that they might not...

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Mum might not be there for them in the future

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was particularly hard for us all to come to terms with.

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We prepared the girls.

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They're aware that I've been ill for a few years.

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I explained to them that I'm going to have such strong medicine

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that it will make my hair fall out if it's successful.

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So, the first time they opened my front door and they saw me,

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they looked a bit horrified at first,

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and then I was laughing and I said, "There, the medicine's working."

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And everyone was really happy.

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They're very happy about it too.

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They did say to me, "Well, are you going to go out like that, Granny?"

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And I said, "Well, yeah, I think I will, because this is me.

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"I don't want to hide it with a wig or anything,

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"I'd rather be myself."

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They stroke my hair because they say it's like suede.

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Cos the new hair's beginning to grow through

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and it's rather soft and sweet.

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SHE GIGGLES

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In the last three-and-a-half years,

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we've taken the opportunity

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to do as many things as possible as a family -

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from taking Mum skiing in France

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to organising my wedding,

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to organising her own wedding to Martin.

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We have done so much as a family

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and the time that we have has been precious.

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We've known that we have the opportunity to make this good

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and it has brought us hugely closer together as a family.

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The Welsh Government says it won't run a cancer fund

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because it's ineffective -

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claiming not all the drugs work -

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and unethical, favouring cancer patient over others

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with life-threatening illnesses.

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I sympathise with that,

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but I feel it's unfair that I have to cross into England

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and access the Cancer Drug Fund there

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to get the treatment I need to live.

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And it's available to other women.

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As I questioned and protested about this discrimination,

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I soon found myself running a campaign.

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It's centred around my blog, 'One Voice for Wales'.

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And one of the big things I campaign about

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is for more patient involvement.

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So, I've just decided to stage a unique event -

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a patient voices conference

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where politicians come and listen to us.

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Well, the elections are coming up

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next May in Wales and, of course,

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NHS and cancer services in Wales

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are going to be a huge vote issue.

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And we thought it was important, before the elections,

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to make sure AMs know what patients are thinking.

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It's going to be a pretty big event, probably,

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and I think it might be the first of its kind in the United Kingdom.

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I've not heard of another patient event set up like this.

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Being diagnosed with ovarian cancer is... It's a devastating moment.

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To see somebody going through all of the treatments,

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fighting for those treatments

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and yet still have time to support other women,

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to campaign for better access to diagnosis and treatments,

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this is quite extraordinary.

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And I have never, ever heard Annie complain.

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If I'm on treatment, I go to London most weeks.

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I used to get the bus because it was much cheaper but, these days,

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I get tired and so the train is easier, if much more expensive.

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The good bit about the train is I can work on my campaign

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and interest in my patients' voices day

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has really taken off in recent weeks.

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Patients from all over Wales are enthusiastic about it

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and charities have been a huge support.

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At the moment, I'm expecting about 30 cancer charities

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and about 40 patients.

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In the good weather, I try to cycle when I get to London

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but, if I'm tired, I can get the bus or tube, or walk -

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and, if I feel really bad,

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I can treat myself to a taxi.

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I am now 150 miles from my real home,

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but I've been registered here with local doctors

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for the English Health Service.

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Well, this is my main NHS address.

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It's in Brixton, in London.

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In fact, it's my daughter's home

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and I'm pretty lucky to have a daughter in London

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where I have an access to a greater range of treatments -

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and particularly, to clinical trials,

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which is what I want as a patient with incurable cancer.

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Tomorrow, busy day tomorrow.

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I shall be leaving here at about 7:30am,

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rushing down to the Marsden

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and then I've been asked to go to the Chelsea and Westminster

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to give a talk to fifth year medical students.

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They want to meet a woman with ovarian cancer

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and share my experiences.

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So, then I rush back to Marsden and I see my oncologist.

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I just hope I've got time for it all.

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I'm just recording this from the Royal Marsden but,

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here I am in the chemo ward and,

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as you can see just here, there is a chemo pump.

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I have approximately about 40 minutes left of this chemotherapy

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and then I have a little rest,

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and then I have another bit of chemotherapy later on.

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SIRENS WAIL

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So, a couple of tips...

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from me, anyway.

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As you meet your patient,

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please give your given name, your surname.

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Don't call yourself Doctor.

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It just feels patronising.

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At first, I think we slightly dismissed the thought

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that there could be such huge inequalities

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between the health system in Wales

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and the health system, here, in England.

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And I think, in some ways,

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we were sort of thinking this was Mum's, perhaps, strategy of coping

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as she was finding a way to survive.

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But, as she began to present the facts and figures, and the research

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and really, sort of, backing this up by people she'd spoke to,

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and particularly in the professional charities

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that support cancer -

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I think it began to dawn on me

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that the outcomes for people in Wales were so diminished.

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There was really no other choice

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but to, of course, welcome her here

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and say, "Come and have this care.

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"Come and stay with us in London."

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Is that sizeable? Is that the size of a chunk you want?

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Yeah, that's fine. Just put them in a pan.

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'I'm by no means the only Welsh exile.

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'According to the hospitals that I've been to,

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'there are an awful lot of patients from Wales'

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who have addresses in London

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to access the centres of excellence here.

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It's quite common, as I understand.

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And I do have a personal friend,

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a lady called Mary Funke Burrows,

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who would have been known in Wales quite well

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because she's the former chief executive

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of Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board Trust,

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and she has moved to London

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to be with her son

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to access treatment that she couldn't have in Wales.

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The former head of a Welsh health board has moved to England

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so she can get a cancer drug she wouldn't be eligible here for.

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Mary Burrows, who ran the Betsi Cadwaladr Health Board,

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told BBC Wales there needs to be a public debate

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about how we fund new treatments.

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There needs to be a debate about, across all the UK,

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about how we fund these treatments.

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It's not just cancer treatments,

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it's all the advanced technology and surgeries that are coming through

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that people will want to access

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and there's a price that comes with that.

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The former head of a Welsh health board

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who moved to England access cancer treatment has died.

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Mary Burrows, who was chief executive...

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I'm here in my London home

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about to go to a funeral today

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of a very good friend, Mary,

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who died a couple of weeks ago

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from metastatic breast cancer.

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We had so much in common, really,

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with moving to London, and we were both at the Royal Marsden.

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Well, the last time I saw Mary,

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she was just about to go for the appointment

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that she suspected was going to be the one that said

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she could have no more treatment.

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She was the most extraordinary woman.

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She, sort of, took things in her stride

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but I think, at that moment,

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the day before that appointment,

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she had the fear that all of us have

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that there was nothing more that could be done for her.

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I do know people are coming down from Bangor, this morning,

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to get to the funeral,

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which I think is... It must be very heartening for the family.

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It's always a very different thing

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when you're faced with people's families

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and see their grief, because it's all too raw for me.

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I do think you can plan for a good death.

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Doctors don't want to talk about it, they want to save you,

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but part of my campaign is calling for palliative care

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to be introduced sooner.

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Apparently, Britain is the best in the world

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for palliative care -

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and Wales, the best in Britain -

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but oncologists could liaise earlier with the palliative team

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so there's a smooth, interactive handover.

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I'd been thinking about end of life plans for a few months

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before being asked to give this talk and I had been...

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'Today, I'm giving a talk about the patient view

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'of improving palliative care to the Royal College of Nursing in Wales.

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'Sharing a platform with the world authority on the subject,

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'Baroness Finlay of Llandaff.'

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I think the most important question for patients is

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whether there's, like, an integrated approach

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between palliative care and our oncology service.

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I think - here in Wales,

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and here in Felindre -

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we've achieved that,

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because the palliative care team

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is based in the cancer centre and

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works in a completely integrated way.

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So, if a patient needs to be seen,

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anybody can say that patient needs to be seen.

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You're not waiting for a consultant or a consultant referral.

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That is unique. Not...

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In the rest of the UK,

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people are waiting to be referred. Yeah.

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So, we are more fast-track than elsewhere.

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The problem is, of course, capacity.

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The system the Welsh Government uses for all medical conditions,

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not just cancer,

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to fund drugs and treatment not routinely available

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is through the IPFR -

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the Individual Patient Funding Request.

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Each patient's application is assessed individually

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by a panel under set guidelines,

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and health boards have to balance these appeals

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against the needs of the majority,

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the effectiveness of the treatment

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and the resources available.

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To succeed, patients have to prove

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exceptional clinical circumstances.

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So, inevitably, decisions vary

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between individuals,

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between health boards.

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A drug granted in one area of Wales

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but not another.

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Well, it comes back to what is and isn't exceptional

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and this is, sometimes, a difficult question to deal with

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because it's something about the condition you have

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and whether the treatment will have an exceptional benefit

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for the individual there.

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Now, we've looked again at the IPFR process of and for itself and...

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we had an expert review undertaken,

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relatively recently,

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and it made a series of recommendations,

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all of which the Minister accepted.

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And it examined the question of consistency, so we put some extra

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resource into the Wales toxicology and treatment centre.

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And that will now be looking at a range of conditions

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where health boards make different decisions on apparently

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the same treatment and the same condition, because that's

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not just difficult to defend, and I wouldn't try to defend that,

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what we need to do is to have a process to get a consistent

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decision made across Wales, so if you're in one health board area

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you don't get a different decision to if you lived in another.

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And there's a challenge there about then having a national approach.

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You can say actually, there should be a normalised approach,

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for this particular indication.

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Well, the Welsh government will say that, yes,

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where a patient is exceptional, they will give them the cancer drug

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if they qualify, but the only thing is that,

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with a group of patients all with the same cancer,

0:15:590:16:02

with the same presentation of the disease, who would all

0:16:020:16:05

equally well benefit from the drug, we are clearly not exceptional.

0:16:050:16:08

Well, I'm outside the Houses of Parliament

0:16:100:16:12

and I'm here to give a paper to the

0:16:120:16:15

all-party political group for ovarian cancer

0:16:150:16:18

about access to drugs in Wales.

0:16:180:16:20

The Welsh government have never really been clear exactly

0:16:200:16:23

how much they're actually spending on cancer drugs,

0:16:230:16:25

and I think there is an issue here, and really,

0:16:250:16:28

it's only by coming to Westminster that you really do find out

0:16:280:16:32

what Wales has and how that compares with other people in other

0:16:320:16:35

areas of the United Kingdom.

0:16:350:16:36

There'll be a member of the House of Lords

0:16:360:16:38

there'll be a number of MPs there,

0:16:380:16:40

and all the charities that represent women with ovarian cancer

0:16:400:16:43

will be there as well as quite a large group of women with cancer

0:16:430:16:47

who are interested in this topic.

0:16:470:16:49

These have become quite old pals.

0:16:490:16:51

There's usually a party beforehand near Westminster Abbey

0:16:510:16:54

and then we meet for dinner afterwards

0:16:540:16:55

so, yeah, there's a little group of us,

0:16:550:16:57

we call ourselves the Old Ovarians!

0:16:570:16:59

We meet up, have a couple of glasses of wine and dinner.

0:16:590:17:02

We know that survival rates in Wales for ovarian cancer

0:17:040:17:09

are behind survival rates in England

0:17:090:17:14

and I say that, but also want to emphasise that, across the UK,

0:17:140:17:18

we have the worst survival rates in Europe,

0:17:180:17:22

so nobody is doing well, in terms of the UK nations, in ovarian cancer

0:17:220:17:29

but Wales does less well.

0:17:290:17:32

And there is a huge issue around late diagnosis.

0:17:320:17:36

There is an issue around access to clinical trials in Wales.

0:17:360:17:42

And there is, of course, the issue around access to cancer drugs.

0:17:420:17:50

And in ovarian cancer, we have seen very little progress

0:17:500:17:56

in survival rates and treatment options over the past 20 years.

0:17:560:18:01

So it's of desperate concern when there is a life-extending

0:18:010:18:05

treatment available that women in Wales cannot access that treatment.

0:18:050:18:11

I believe that the survival rates for ovarian cancer

0:18:130:18:16

are quite low in Wales compared to the rest of the UK.

0:18:160:18:19

I wondered why you think that is and what should be done about that.

0:18:190:18:23

Well, we first focus on improving outcomes for cancer patients

0:18:230:18:26

on every particular cancer.

0:18:260:18:28

We know that there are particular challenges in different

0:18:280:18:31

tumour sizes and different forms of cancer.

0:18:310:18:34

It's difficult to put your finger on one particular part of it.

0:18:340:18:37

So we will focus on the whole pathway.

0:18:370:18:39

So, what's the point about presentation

0:18:390:18:42

and the recognition of symptoms, so people are referred appropriately?

0:18:420:18:45

What's then the point about...

0:18:450:18:47

Once that referral is done, appropriate diagnostic tests

0:18:470:18:50

and how quickly those are available?

0:18:500:18:52

And then, if there is a diagnosis of cancer,

0:18:520:18:54

the treatment options after that.

0:18:540:18:56

So it's looking at the whole path of it.

0:18:560:18:58

So it's difficult to say that there is only one

0:18:580:19:00

part of that that we need to focus on and, you know, in this,

0:19:000:19:03

we're not being led by politicians determining how to do this,

0:19:030:19:05

apart from the vision and the strategy

0:19:050:19:07

and the overall ambition,

0:19:070:19:09

if you like, to ensure that we improve survival rates

0:19:090:19:12

and outcomes for cancer patients is being led by clinicians themselves.

0:19:120:19:16

And that's one of the most encouraging things, I think,

0:19:160:19:18

is we've got a proper reliance on a network of clinicians

0:19:180:19:21

who are working together,

0:19:210:19:22

who have real ambition, who recognise that, in Wales,

0:19:220:19:25

for all the improvements we've made

0:19:250:19:27

and we should be proud of, we still have a great deal more to go.

0:19:270:19:30

So there's no sense of complacency at all.

0:19:300:19:33

One way of surviving longer is to get on a clinical trial.

0:19:350:19:38

It ensures you get the latest treatment.

0:19:380:19:41

Today I'm at the Welsh Assembly

0:19:410:19:43

for the cross-party group meeting on cancer.

0:19:430:19:46

I come here regularly to get involved in the issues,

0:19:460:19:49

present my argument to the Welsh government

0:19:490:19:51

and talk to clinicians, politicians and civil servants.

0:19:510:19:55

Today, we're discussing the launch of a new cancer research centre.

0:19:550:19:59

I want to ask why Welsh patients are being denied access

0:19:590:20:03

to clinical trials in England which could help them survive longer.

0:20:030:20:06

We need to stop people smoking.

0:20:060:20:09

We need to stop people consuming excess alcohol.

0:20:090:20:11

We need to stop people having an unhealthy diet,

0:20:110:20:14

all those things which we know contribute to cancer.

0:20:140:20:16

Well, my question is, is there anything you can do to,

0:20:160:20:20

whilst you must encourage your patients to go on your clinical

0:20:200:20:23

trials in Wales, is there any way that we can ensure that Wales

0:20:230:20:25

has fair access to clinical trials outside if patients are willing

0:20:250:20:28

and able and would benefit from access to that trial?

0:20:280:20:31

The answer to your question is yes, there are things we can do.

0:20:310:20:34

What we don't want is a situation where only the patients

0:20:340:20:37

who are happy to live close to the centres where those

0:20:370:20:40

trials are happening should be the ones who can get it.

0:20:400:20:42

We want it to be broader than that.

0:20:420:20:44

So what we're trying to do is form a network whereby

0:20:440:20:47

all the centres around the country have all the information.

0:20:470:20:50

For some patients and some treatments,

0:20:500:20:52

close to home isn't possible, either because the patient's

0:20:520:20:55

condition is rare or the drug isn't widely available.

0:20:550:20:57

My experience is patients are happy to travel

0:20:570:21:00

when they need to and so we need to make things available to them.

0:21:000:21:04

We want every patient to come into the clinic and say,

0:21:040:21:07

"Do you have a trial for me?"

0:21:070:21:08

Women are prepared to travel if they are able to,

0:21:090:21:13

to participate in clinical trials.

0:21:130:21:17

I haven't seen the evidence that the Welsh Assembly government

0:21:170:21:25

has for having cancer care on every corner

0:21:250:21:29

and, clearly, we would like to see services close to us,

0:21:290:21:36

but, actually, particularly with less common cancers,

0:21:360:21:41

what you really need to have

0:21:410:21:44

is access to the best possible specialist care.

0:21:440:21:49

I was expecting to go for my last, final appointment

0:21:500:21:54

to go into the clinical trial

0:21:540:21:57

and, sadly, we found out that the cancer was on the return,

0:21:570:22:01

so I am not able to go on my trial.

0:22:010:22:05

I think everything goes through your mind,

0:22:050:22:07

like you can miss your family and your husband and all the tragedy

0:22:070:22:13

that is ahead,

0:22:130:22:15

I think you think very negatively, but hopefully,

0:22:150:22:18

over the course of 24 hours, chatting to my husband,

0:22:180:22:22

he joined me in London, and we, we kind of struggled our way through.

0:22:220:22:26

One of the first things that you do think about is how they're

0:22:270:22:31

going to miss you and that sort of thing, so yeah, yeah.

0:22:310:22:36

And my very next thought was,

0:22:360:22:38

what am I going to do about my patient day on February 2nd?

0:22:380:22:42

Am I actually going to be able to get to it?

0:22:420:22:45

So I quickly wrote down a few notes to myself

0:22:450:22:47

because I need to make some plans so that,

0:22:470:22:51

should I not be able to make it,

0:22:510:22:53

someone would actually delegate for me,

0:22:530:22:55

and it's going to go ahead and it's going to be good.

0:22:550:22:57

But now I almost feel it's all handover,

0:22:570:23:01

it's the last thing I can do.

0:23:010:23:03

And yeah, yeah, it's something for me to think of.

0:23:030:23:08

This morning I'm flying up to North Wales to meet for the first

0:23:150:23:18

time another campaigner, Irfon Williams,

0:23:180:23:20

and invite him to my Patient Voices day.

0:23:200:23:24

Hopefully he'll continue to fight after me.

0:23:240:23:27

Surprisingly, the plane's a plush six-seater

0:23:270:23:30

that's used by celebrities.

0:23:300:23:31

It seems very extravagant, but it's incredibly cheap,

0:23:310:23:35

much less than the car, thanks to the Welsh government's subsidies.

0:23:350:23:39

Irfon Williams lives in Bangor.

0:23:410:23:44

He is a former Welsh Nurse of the Year

0:23:440:23:45

and was diagnosed with bowel cancer.

0:23:450:23:48

He applied four times for funding for a drug which experts said could

0:23:480:23:52

help him, but was refused each time.

0:23:520:23:55

I and others advised Irfon to get an English address, and he did.

0:23:550:23:59

And then he got the drug at a Manchester hospital,

0:23:590:24:01

and it worked, shrinking the tumours so he could have surgery.

0:24:010:24:05

Hello! Hi!

0:24:050:24:07

ANNIE LAUGHS

0:24:070:24:09

Meet you at last in person!

0:24:090:24:12

To be denied payment from the Welsh government for the drug that I

0:24:120:24:18

required, but also to have to travel to England to pursue that drug,

0:24:180:24:22

I found that process the most stressful of all,

0:24:220:24:26

almost feeling as if we were second class citizens,

0:24:260:24:31

begging for funding, begging to be treated.

0:24:310:24:35

And having the same message come back, time and time again,

0:24:350:24:39

no, this drug is not going to be funded by this health board.

0:24:390:24:44

And the reasons given were actually, eventually, financial.

0:24:440:24:50

And to be left during those periods,

0:24:500:24:52

because there were four applications, and each time between,

0:24:520:24:55

your mind would play, you would go through it, you'd be thinking,

0:24:550:24:59

"They can't deny him, how can they deny him?

0:24:590:25:00

"He's got all the genetic tests to show that he'd respond to this drug.

0:25:000:25:04

"He's a young man, he's got a young family, he's got so much to give."

0:25:040:25:08

To be told regularly that I was unlikely to respond

0:25:080:25:10

to this medication whereas, in fact,

0:25:100:25:13

I had experts in England specifying that, actually,

0:25:130:25:20

there was a high chance that I would be able to respond well.

0:25:200:25:25

And then scans at the end of the treatment showed

0:25:250:25:28

a 60% reduction in the tumours both in my liver and bowel.

0:25:280:25:31

And that's a big percentage. It is. It's huge.

0:25:310:25:34

And as a result, the surgeons in the specialist centre in Liverpool

0:25:340:25:39

were happy to offer to operate, and they removed all my tumours.

0:25:390:25:44

And 2? months on, I am in remission. Which is great news.

0:25:440:25:49

That is fantastic news!

0:25:500:25:53

Erm, I think there needs to be some decision that...

0:25:530:25:58

..when we're dealing with people's lives, it's above politics,

0:26:000:26:03

and there needs to be

0:26:030:26:04

some cross-party support and agreement that

0:26:040:26:07

when we're dealing with treatment for cancer or any other

0:26:070:26:10

condition, where there is a requirement for specialist treatment

0:26:100:26:13

then there should be some guidelines, clear guidelines.

0:26:130:26:17

There have been times when I've doubted

0:26:170:26:19

whether I should've gone so public

0:26:190:26:20

and whether we should have complained or

0:26:200:26:22

whether I should have just gone quietly and had my treatment.

0:26:220:26:25

However, the amount of people that have been made aware now

0:26:250:26:28

of the situation, and they are starting to question

0:26:280:26:32

medics, locally, it is incredible.

0:26:320:26:35

I've brought the flyers for the day in February.

0:26:350:26:38

We've mentioned it on the phone.

0:26:380:26:40

And the invitation, if you are well enough.

0:26:400:26:42

I think the good thing about this is, actually, that the

0:26:420:26:46

patients actually have a voice, and it's about time people

0:26:460:26:49

started listening to the patients' voice.

0:26:490:26:52

It was incredible to come up to North Wales

0:26:520:26:54

and to get to chat to them

0:26:540:26:55

and actually find out

0:26:550:26:57

we just had the same experiences in North and South Wales.

0:26:570:27:00

Particularly, he mentioned the lack of transparency that needs to be

0:27:000:27:04

addressed and the need to empower patients to be asking the questions.

0:27:040:27:09

I think the game of this disease is not to think too emotionally

0:27:110:27:15

about things. Yes, it could be my last Christmas,

0:27:150:27:19

but I live for the day, and I try not to let that affect

0:27:190:27:23

how I enjoy the Christmas.

0:27:230:27:26

THEY LAUGH

0:27:260:27:27

My health still took a bit of a bashing on Christmas week

0:27:270:27:31

in that I suddenly developed a sore leg,

0:27:310:27:34

so we had to spend a day in A

0:27:340:27:36

and I flew off to Rome on Boxing Day.

0:27:360:27:39

At the moment I am not very keen on having any more treatment because,

0:27:390:27:42

as you can see, my hair's only just starting to grow after the last lot.

0:27:420:27:46

I'm only just recovering.

0:27:460:27:47

And after the last lot of treatment didn't work at all,

0:27:470:27:50

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to have any more.

0:27:500:27:53

Rebecca from Target Ovarian Cancer and I have come round

0:27:550:27:57

to check out the Pierhead Building

0:27:570:27:59

because I've never organised anything like this.

0:27:590:28:01

I've never organised anything like this.

0:28:010:28:03

We've got 27, 28 charities coming with their stands.

0:28:030:28:06

We've got patients, we've got Assembly Members, we've got

0:28:060:28:08

people from the NHS, so we need to make sure that we've got

0:28:080:28:11

room for everyone, the catering's sorted out,

0:28:110:28:13

meeting and greeting.

0:28:130:28:15

This is a really great space.

0:28:150:28:17

I hadn't realised when I started organising something,

0:28:170:28:19

but this is actually for the people of Wales to have their say

0:28:190:28:22

to the Welsh Assembly office, which is just there.

0:28:220:28:25

They'll take photos of members of you there

0:28:270:28:29

and that's your panel.

0:28:290:28:31

So the real focus of this event is a question and answer session

0:28:310:28:33

for patients to ask each of the health spokesmen -

0:28:330:28:36

what will their party do for cancer services in Wales

0:28:360:28:40

if they get in?

0:28:400:28:41

And so we've got four party spokesmen from the main parties.

0:28:410:28:44

We've got the NHS to come in,

0:28:440:28:45

we've got patient experience managers coming,

0:28:450:28:48

we have the clinical doctor of the Velindre

0:28:480:28:51

and then we have about nearly 40 patients

0:28:510:28:53

and other interested people, so it's quite a mix of people.

0:28:530:28:58

Today, suddenly, everything's falling into place.

0:28:580:29:01

Good morning Wales, it's seven o'clock on Tuesday 2nd February.

0:29:030:29:07

This is Peter Johnson and Oliver Hides.

0:29:070:29:08

Good morning. Our top stories this morning...

0:29:080:29:10

Well, early start this morning. Up at five and getting ready

0:29:100:29:14

for the Voices event which starts at half past ten this morning.

0:29:140:29:19

So I'm sort of hanging around

0:29:190:29:21

waiting for BBC Wales radio to ring me to do a bit of a radio interview

0:29:210:29:25

to tell people in Wales what the event's about.

0:29:250:29:28

PHONE RINGS

0:29:280:29:29

And there's the phone, probably.

0:29:290:29:31

Hello, Annie speaking.

0:29:310:29:33

Well, today, cancer patients from across Wales join together to

0:29:330:29:37

make their voices heard at the Senedd.

0:29:370:29:39

The event's been organised by Annie Mulholland.

0:29:390:29:41

She's on the line now. Morning, Annie. Good morning.

0:29:410:29:44

Now, tell me, Annie, first of all, what are you hoping to do today?

0:29:440:29:47

What's this about?

0:29:470:29:48

I think what cancer patients want more than anything

0:29:480:29:51

is that we all want to be treated fairly.

0:29:510:29:53

And we don't want to feel in Wales that we have more than anyone

0:29:530:29:55

else, but equally, we don't want other people in other

0:29:550:29:58

parts of the UK to have more than us, either.

0:29:580:30:01

Well, I'm having to keep my legs up now

0:30:010:30:03

because I've got what's called lymphoedema,

0:30:030:30:05

so I've got one enormous leg and one normal leg here.

0:30:050:30:07

And the only thing we can do to try

0:30:070:30:09

and manage it at the moment is to keep my leg up.

0:30:090:30:12

But unfortunately, I've sort of embarked on doing this event today,

0:30:120:30:16

so I won't be having my leg up as much as I should.

0:30:160:30:19

I've got some morphine I take morning and afternoon

0:30:190:30:23

and I can take another squirt.

0:30:230:30:25

If the pain gets too bad I can take a little extra

0:30:250:30:28

and that's quite necessary for a day like today.

0:30:280:30:30

Oh, Annie is absolutely a star.

0:30:400:30:42

She's pulled this all together herself, basically.

0:30:420:30:45

And without her, this would not be happening.

0:30:450:30:48

Annie's amazing.

0:30:480:30:49

She's an absolute inspiration,

0:30:490:30:51

the way she's driven forward the interests of patients in Wales.

0:30:510:30:54

It's absolutely fantastic.

0:30:540:30:57

For Annie to get so many charities in the same room,

0:30:570:31:00

that's a triumph in itself.

0:31:000:31:02

And to get so many like-minded people,

0:31:030:31:06

that's a huge fillip to us as cancer patients, you see.

0:31:060:31:10

Well, I've just come in from outside doing a TV clip

0:31:100:31:13

and I'm slightly overawed there's so many people here.

0:31:130:31:16

And people are coming up and saying hello.

0:31:160:31:19

Yeah, have you got a Kleenex?!

0:31:190:31:21

THEY LAUGH

0:31:210:31:23

I had great hopes for today.

0:31:230:31:25

From a personal experience, I need to hand over.

0:31:250:31:28

There have been some incredibly knowledgeable

0:31:280:31:30

and active campaigners in Wales, but their campaigns died when they die.

0:31:300:31:35

I'd like to think this event builds on the shared experience

0:31:350:31:38

of all the patients in the room today and all the stakeholders

0:31:380:31:41

and that an event of this nature might continue as a legacy

0:31:410:31:45

to achieve greater patient participation

0:31:450:31:48

and engagement in the future of the NHS in Wales.

0:31:480:31:51

Yes, I think campaigning does work.

0:31:560:31:58

The drug that I received in England, obviously, Cetuximab,

0:31:580:32:01

is now available in Wales for cancer patients with bowel cancer.

0:32:010:32:05

The first question is going to be to Ann Whelan.

0:32:050:32:09

Waiting lists for CT scans are growing.

0:32:090:32:12

What will your party do about this?

0:32:120:32:15

Could they not look at a way forward to develop patient input?

0:32:150:32:21

Us, as patients, would benefit from England and Wales

0:32:210:32:24

having the same drugs, so that we aren't

0:32:240:32:26

put into the dilemma of having to move over the border.

0:32:260:32:31

There was engagement from all the stakeholders,

0:32:310:32:34

the Assembly Members, the NHS, the third sector, the patients.

0:32:340:32:39

And there's a will to go forward.

0:32:390:32:42

You did brilliantly. Mmm! You must be pleased. Are you pleased?

0:32:420:32:46

I'm feeling a bit overawed at the moment.

0:32:460:32:49

We've never had this in Wales, ever.

0:32:490:32:51

I've been to so many things.

0:32:510:32:53

We've never had this in Wales.

0:32:530:32:56

It couldn't have been done without a lot of people,

0:32:560:32:59

but most particularly my family.

0:32:590:33:00

And Hannah, in fact, was up to I don't know what time last night

0:33:000:33:03

making those conference packs.

0:33:030:33:05

Becky was such a talented MC.

0:33:050:33:07

'I'm really pleased the Health Minister, Marc Drakeford, came.

0:33:100:33:13

'It was a great endorsement.

0:33:130:33:16

'I met him three years ago to discuss ovarian cancer

0:33:160:33:18

'and asked for an ovarian cancer public awareness campaign in Wales.

0:33:180:33:23

'Now I've been told it's going to happen this year,

0:33:230:33:25

'which is wonderful news.

0:33:250:33:27

'I hope this isn't just a one-off concession to one campaigner.

0:33:270:33:31

'All I've shown is that patients can contribute constructively to

0:33:310:33:35

'improving health services in Wales for all.

0:33:350:33:38

'I would still advise Welsh patients to go to England

0:33:380:33:41

'to get treatment that will prolong their lives

0:33:410:33:44

'if it is the only option available to them.

0:33:440:33:46

'But they won't need to go if, together,

0:33:460:33:49

'we can eradicate the unfairness in the system.

0:33:490:33:52

'I've come to the end of my treatment

0:33:520:33:55

'and there are very few options left.

0:33:550:33:57

'So, if I've helped move Wales forward towards fairer health care

0:33:570:34:01

'then something good will have come out of dying with cancer.'

0:34:010:34:05

Oh, it's sunny! I know!

0:34:050:34:07

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