Roger: Genocide Baby


Roger: Genocide Baby

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This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing.

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Roger Nsengiyumva is a rising star. He's only 16 and lives with his mum.

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But he's already got one big movie credit to his name.

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So it's either all of us or none of us. We're a team.

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-Roger has grown up in England.

-I shouldn't really be here.

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I'm only really here because of what my mum did for me.

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But he was born in Rwanda during one of the bloodiest episodes in

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human history, when one tribe attempted to wipe out another.

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Roger's dad was murdered, one of a million casualties.

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But his mum survived, hiding her genocide baby from the death squads for weeks on end.

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If anyone read that their mum went through 100 days looking after them

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in complete horror, I'm sure anyone would feel, like, complete admiration.

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Now Roger's going back to Rwanda,

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to see for himself the horror he was too young to remember.

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If you're told to kill someone on the street

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and it's because they're a Tutsi, I can't understand that.

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To draw comfort from fellow survivors.

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He will see you like his son.

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And come face to face with the killers.

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I mean I hate to say it but I'd love to see them in body bags.

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It's horrible, I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth.

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Rwanda is recovering from genocide,

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but can Roger forgive the men who killed his dad?

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I hate to use the word revenge, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment.

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HE RAPS: I'm the man of the hour,

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I got swagger like Austin Powers.

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Roger's got the world at his feet.

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Already a successful actor and now an aspiring rapper.

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If I ever got cold feet,

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Tell them break the ice like a turtle on a British beach.

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But it's the past that intrigues his mates.

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The story of the Rwandan genocide in 1994.

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In Britain, people don't really know about the genocide, do they?

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Especially not people our age? I know we didn't before we met you.

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If you can explain like to me,

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what actually is the Rwandan genocide, what happens?

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I've actually got some footage here, quite hard hitting stuff.

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Let me give you a quick...

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This one, this one's a bit hard, hard hitting, so...

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'As we approached the church, Frank became silent.

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'He'd been here before and knew what lay ahead.

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'I had seen war before, had seen the face of cruelty,

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'but it belonged in a nightmare zone, where my capacity

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'to understand, to rationalise, was overwhelmed.'

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-Is that a person?

-Yes, it's a person, it's a real person.

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'The victims, all of them Tutsis,

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'had gone to the church in search of sanctuary.

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'Instead the house of God became a killing ground.

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'You don't just see death here, you feel it and you smell it.

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'In a classroom, a mother and her children made easy targets.'

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-You know, we saw a kid on that, didn't we, you saw the kid?

-Yeah.

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Yes, easily could've been me.

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I mean, this is quite hard,

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because you just see things like this in movies.

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But trying to imagine that in real life is...

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Personally from that, yeah, it would take me at least a long time to forgive,

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cos that looked like a woman and a child.

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-It was, yeah.

-That's horrible to watch, to be honest.

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I expected a reaction from my friends,

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but that was, that really hit home.

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I mean, it wasn't 40 years back, this was 16 years ago.

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If he forgives, then that would be amazing,

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but if he doesn't forgive, that will sort of still be like,

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that's fair enough, I can see why you don't forgive.

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He'd be a strong boy if he did forgive.

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After the genocide, Roger and his mum, Illuminee,

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escaped to Norwich where they set up a memorial to his father.

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When we used to come here, I was always really silent,

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so this is a first actually.

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They don't actually know where he's buried.

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Seven years ago, they went back to Rwanda to find out.

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They'd use machetes to cut someone up.

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And a club to whack them around the head.

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It makes me feel really angry. That's all I can really say.

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And it was on that visit, that Illuminee made a remarkable admission.

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So now Roger is returning to the land of his birth,

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to find out how Rwanda has recovered

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and to work out whether forgiveness is for him.

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This is Mum's diary about the events, what happened, what she saw,

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what she heard.

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"We were woken by the sound of gunfire.

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"People were screaming for their lives as they were savagely cut down.

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"Roger was born after 20 hours labour.

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"I was so lonely, I wanted to die.

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"I asked him to kill me.

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"Anything but rape. He cocked the pistol and fired.

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"There was a click, but no bang. He'd run out of bullets.

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My mum's forgiven, like, all what happened to her

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and it's taken her time, but she's now moved on from what happened.

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So, I'm still kind of unsure really, as to forgiving

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and not forgiving, but I know eventually,

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eventually I do want to just rest my hand and, yeah, I've forgiven everything.

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But, I'm still in the middle, man.

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Hi, how are you doing?

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It's Roger here with a quick video, the night before I leave.

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Now packing my bags, let's have a look at my bag situation.

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Right, I've got some nice cotton rich socks.

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If you haven't got cotton rich socks then I don't know what your game is.

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You must have seriously...

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In Rwanda it doesn't rain a lot

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but when it does, you're going to know about it.

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So, a raincoat is essential.

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Mum, I still have yet to hear from you.

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What do you think about my journey?

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It's good, you're going to learn more, but I will miss you.

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I'm excited, as you would be, going to see,

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going to see some nice weather, it's Rwanda.

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At the same time, pretty nervous, pretty nervous.

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Going to meet quite a few people that are going to make me think about forgiveness,

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and just how life is in Rwanda day to day really,

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because I haven't seen a lot of that.

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Good night, I'm tired.

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All right, cheers, see you at the airport.

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# I'm coming home

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# I'm coming home

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# Tell the world I'm coming home. #

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4,000 odd miles, I don't know how many hours.

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Easily a day, we had a delay at London.

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Rwanda is the size of Wales,

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but with 8 million people,

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it's one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

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Wow! Here we are, ha-ha-ha, finally in Kigali, yes, yes, boss.

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Eustache, is Roger's mum's brother and his favourite uncle.

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# Let the rain wash away

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# All the pain of yesterday

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# I know my kingdom awaits

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# They've forgiven my mistakes

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# I'm coming home

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# Coming home

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# Tell the world that I'm coming home. #

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It's nice to see you again.

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-It's all the same.

-Yes, no change, you know.

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Eustache lost members of his own family.

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But all 50 of Roger's dad's family were wiped out.

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It's a very important time for Rwanda,

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the 17th anniversary of the genocide.

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There's a week of national events, ending with a remembrance concert.

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Thank you, guys.

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So they teach reconciliation,

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and they talk about the genocide in their song.

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It's not any old concert.

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It's a very important concert about genocide. Is this it, this one?

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And she's the person?

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-Is she really popular here?

-Yes, yes, she's really popular.

-OK, yeah.

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I need to meet her.

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She says her favourite place is 'Schokola' so...

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In Remembrance week, Rwandans reflect on the slaughter

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of the one million people from the Tutsi tribe,

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victims of the extremists from their rival tribe, the Hutu.

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Genocide is defined as the extermination of a race.

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In Rwanda, over half the Tutsi tribe were killed in 100 days.

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That's six people every minute, of every hour, of every day.

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Inside Kigali's national stadium,

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the first memorial event is getting underway.

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Within minutes, the grief is overwhelming.

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Today, I came to say, your memory lives with my spirit.

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That your picture is still drawn on my heart.

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"Time heals all wounds," they say.

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But there will never come a day

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when I don't miss seeing your smiling face.

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It's just happening everywhere.

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WOMAN SINGS

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PEOPLE SCREAM

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# We all need to fight. #

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It may be 17 years on,

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but for everyone in Rwanda, the pain is just as raw.

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-This is where Mum and Dad got married, yeah?

-Yes.

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The wedding of Roger's parents took place four days before the start of the genocide.

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Picture a flag basically, just wearing a flag,

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just like really colourful, got flowers on it and stuff.

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Yes, I've seen her wearing it before. It's really nice.

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I've kind of got a picture of how it was.

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-Did Dad drink some beer?

-Yeah.

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"Our wedding was a wonderful occasion.

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"I was very happy and wore a white dress

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"even though I was eight months pregnant.

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"John looked so handsome in his black suit.

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"At last, I thought, all the people I love are happy together and under one roof.

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"Lot's of John's friends, both Hutu and Tutsi,

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"joined us and drank to our future happiness."

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But many of those so-called friends were Hutus,

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and one month later, they would hunt down and kill Roger's dad.

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What happened was nice, you know, marriage and everything, but...

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he's not here, so it's not nice to look back on.

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So, yeah, I'm not allowed to swear, am I?

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No?

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I'm tempted.

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No, it's not nice, mate, not at all.

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Next stop is to find out how the younger generation has coped with so much loss.

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Last night became quite clear to me how important this week is for Rwandans.

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So, today we're on our way to meet Miss JoJo,

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which should be very exciting.

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She's obviously a very influential person.

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Not only is Miss JoJo famous, she's also a Tutsi like Roger

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and another survivor of the genocide.

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She's seen stuff and now she can tell the world about it,

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so it'll be really interesting to have a conversation with her

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and talk to her about stuff, so, let's go, let's see her, Schokola!

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-Hey, how you doing?

-Hey.

-Nice to meet you.

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I was looking forward to seeing you, welcome.

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I've heard too much, too much. I had to come and meet you.

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At the age of just 11, Miss JoJo witnessed her mother's murder.

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The sin, as in...?

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-You must have been so scared.

-Of course, I mean, I was like...

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In terms of forgiveness, I said I was in the middle. How do you feel?

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So, I've arrived at quite a special time of year.

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What does this concert mean to people?

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What do you do in the concert other than just the music?

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-Yeah, I'd love that.

-Really?

-Yeah, honestly.

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Yes, I'm very excited now!

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I just wanted to know if you were excited about it or just cool.

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-It's cool, yeah?

-Mmm, very cool.

-You going to make it.

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-Is that them now?

-Yeah, this is them.

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-This is one of the best studios we have.

-OK.

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There's a growing hip-hop scene in Rwanda

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and music is overcoming tribal hatred.

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HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT

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Wow! That's a remix, isn't it?

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-What were your lyrics just now, what were they about?

-Street kid.

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-Street kid?

-Yeah. Just street life, you know.

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-He does hip-hop.

-You do hip-hop?

-Mmm-hmm.

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-Yeah. You could give them some.

-Do some free style.

-Free style?

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Yeah, some free style, man, do something.

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-You're putting me on the spot.

-Sing anything, we just want to hear you.

-OK.

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You have to put Ryder in the zone.

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So if I do something and then Ryder spits something.

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OK, no problem.

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I'm going to do some old stuff, man.

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Ryder. Miss JoJo. The Brain.

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# Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side

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# I am king, only crowns in my blood lines

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# A-class genes, so yes, in my blood tie

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# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right

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# Right, and we ain't even made it yet

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# Three laps, check it, we don't even take a break

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# School kids on a who kid, says a street kid, pass it to the kid. #

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HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT

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-I was feeling that.

-You should do one.

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You can use music to heal people and to move on, too.

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People need to understand that.

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Yeah, I think that nothing can be done without music.

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Music is everywhere, it's something which goes like, it's like breath,

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you know, breath is everywhere, in the air...

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When people are crying, they use music. When people are laughing, they use music.

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OH!

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What's up, man?

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One of Roger's best friends lives in Kigali.

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Yves Dusenge has just heard his mate's in town.

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I came to show you around town.

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-Yo, man.

-You grow taller every day.

-Aw, man, this is crazy!

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They became firm friends on the set of Africa United.

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When's the next bus we're getting?

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Together, they want to explore the life they might have shared

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if it wasn't for the genocide.

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-Here we are.

-Yeah.

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-This is the place, yeah?

-Yeah. This is where my mum grew up.

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She talks about it in here, man.

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Let's go and greet some people up there.

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Life in rural Africa is a far cry from England.

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It's weird to think that she'd be in this sort of environment.

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This is so different to back home, but my mum's more surprised...

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She was more surprised when we moved to Norwich really, you know.

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She always had like two coats on and stuff like that.

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I'm telling that you just come to greet them and visit them.

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Can you tell them I'm really, like,

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I really want to see where my mum got her water and stuff like that,

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because she talks about it quite a lot in here.

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HE SPEAKS IN LOCAL DIALECT

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He doesn't look too happy. THEY LAUGH

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We're dragging this poor guy out. He doesn't even need to get water today. But it's all good.

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So we're filling everything up and carrying it.

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What about, I've seen some guys with trolleys.

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-No, we carry them by hand.

-THEY LAUGH

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OK, let's go, let's go.

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How old are you?

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-20 years old? For real, you're 20 years old?

-Uh-huh.

-Damn!

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The amazing thing about this friendship

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is that is rises above tribal differences.

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Roger, a Tutsi, Yves, a Hutu - the tribe who killed his dad.

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Tutsi may be tall, quite slim.

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The head shape might be quite thin like mine is,

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nose might be small, and Hutu perceived to be quite stocky.

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I don't feel anger towards my generation of Hutus

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because we were babies when this happened.

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So I don't think, you know, mine and Yves' generation

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should feel any guilt to what happened because of their tribe

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and at the same time, you know, I shouldn't feel any anger towards

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people of my generation who are Hutus because we were just babies, man.

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It's just, it's up to us now, so I try to do something here,

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I am trying to build something better, something good.

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Yves, man, we've got issues.

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Look at my shoes. I should have come in something more humble, man.

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-Humble?

-Yeah, man.

-You can remove them.

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I think both of us don't fit in at all, man.

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We don't fit in at all today, man.

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So let's just remove our shoes.

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Then we'll just look crazy.

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"Who are these guys coming into our place and whipping their shoes off?"

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We'll see if I get laughed at. Oh, OK.

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It's not that bad but carrying this for...

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Do you reckon my mum had the same jerry can, this size?

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-Yeah, I think so.

-So what's the traditional way of carrying this?

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Do I put it on my shoulder?

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Yo, this is a new walk!

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You'll have kids in England

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that are going to be walking around like this soon, watch.

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It's the new dance.

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LAUGHTER

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MUSIC: "Paper Planes" by MIA

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# I fly like paper Get high like planes

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# If you catch me at the border I got visas in my name

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# If you come around here I make 'em all day... #

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Back in Kigali, Yves knows what it takes to be cool in today's Rwanda.

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Yo, man, this is perfect for you(!)

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-Yeah?

-No, man. Looks good on you, man(!) Looks good on you(!)

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Whatever, whatever.

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-These are nice, what do you think?

-Try these on.

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Quite a lot of people in Rwanda wear these.

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When I was little, my mum bought me a little pair, baby size.

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I miss these. I haven't had these in a while.

0:28:090:28:11

That's not true, that's not true.

0:28:170:28:19

Roger's beginning to feel like an outsider, an Englishman in Africa.

0:28:230:28:28

Yo, man, that's not the same colour.

0:28:290:28:32

I'm buying two different boots.

0:28:320:28:35

He's taking me for a clown.

0:28:350:28:37

-That's too much man, that's too much.

-He's speaking English, so...

0:28:390:28:43

If I kept quiet, if I kept quiet then...

0:28:430:28:45

-Oh! Yo, man, check that out.

-It's nice, yeah?

0:28:450:28:50

Yo, man, let's go. Too nice. Come on, let's go.

0:28:540:28:59

Good job, good job, good job.

0:29:000:29:02

You've got to ask the question,

0:29:060:29:09

is it, sort of like, unique that you two are friends

0:29:090:29:12

and I really want to say it's not.

0:29:120:29:15

Like, why should it be?

0:29:150:29:17

But I don't know. I mean, I don't think so. I hope not.

0:29:190:29:23

But it's definitely not a strange thing.

0:29:230:29:27

It definitely doesn't feel strange that me and him...

0:29:270:29:32

feel like brothers, man, so...

0:29:320:29:35

Good morning to you, Kigali, how you doing?

0:29:460:29:48

Hope you're good and well.

0:29:480:29:50

I told you today we are hanging out with stars.

0:29:500:29:53

-JoJo, Roger, what's up?

-What's up, man?

0:29:530:29:55

Welcome to Kigali, welcome to CFM. How does it feel to be home now?

0:29:550:29:59

-This is home, right?

-I was born in Kigali, this is home, man.

0:29:590:30:02

So it feels good, especially being joined by my new sister,

0:30:020:30:06

newly found sister.

0:30:060:30:08

-JoJo, why are you here?

-Me, I am hanging out with my young bro here.

0:30:080:30:14

We've been with him just rediscovering Rwanda a little bit.

0:30:140:30:18

-OK.

-We're introducing him to the country, making him love it more.

0:30:180:30:22

-OK. So, this is not the first time you've come back home.

-No, it's not.

0:30:220:30:26

Is there a big difference between that time you were here and now?

0:30:260:30:30

In England, yeah, you speak the language

0:30:300:30:32

-but you feel kind of outside.

-Still left out.

0:30:320:30:34

Yeah, and I came here and I still feel left out because I started talking

0:30:340:30:38

and they were like, "What are you saying?"

0:30:380:30:41

A song by Chris Brown called Champion,

0:30:410:30:43

that's what we're going to start off right now,

0:30:430:30:45

so keep it locked on 89.7 Contact FM.

0:30:450:30:48

In 1994, radio in Rwanda was a much more sinister device.

0:30:520:30:58

There's a history of trouble between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes,

0:31:170:31:21

but things got much worse after the Hutus gained power in the 1960s.

0:31:210:31:25

Tutsi fears became a reality in 1994 at a church in the village of Nyarubuye,

0:31:280:31:34

where thousands sought sanctuary from the death squads.

0:31:340:31:38

Ferdinand Rwakayigamba brought his wife and three children here.

0:31:440:31:51

The memories of what happened next still haunt him.

0:31:510:31:54

JOJO TRANSLATES: "So they started killing people here.

0:31:580:32:01

"They were using everything, they were shooting with guns,

0:32:010:32:05

"they were throwing grenades.

0:32:050:32:07

"They were raping women and afterwards they were killing them.

0:32:090:32:14

"And then if someone is wounded but is not dead,

0:32:180:32:22

"they would come and find out and kill them."

0:32:220:32:24

He was married, he had three kids,

0:32:240:32:28

and everybody was killed in the genocide.

0:32:280:32:34

In three days, 25,000 men, women and children were slaughtered here.

0:32:400:32:47

Many were tortured and beaten to death with domestic tools.

0:33:000:33:04

The scenes were repeated at sites all over Rwanda.

0:33:090:33:13

The slaughter only came to an end

0:33:180:33:20

when the killers found the stench overwhelming.

0:33:200:33:24

A BBC news crew brought these horrors to the attention of the world.

0:33:310:33:35

You don't just see death here - you feel it and you smell it.

0:33:360:33:40

It is as if all the good and life in the atmosphere had been sucked out

0:33:400:33:44

and replaced with the stench of evil.

0:33:440:33:46

JOJO TRANSLATES: He goes sometimes in his room, he closes the doors,

0:34:030:34:07

and everything, where nobody sees him. He cries his pain,

0:34:070:34:11

-he feels bad, he feels the anger.

-Yeah.

0:34:110:34:13

He cries but after that, he goes out of that room, you know,

0:34:130:34:18

to look for life and to take it.

0:34:180:34:21

He had a kid who was six months old and Roger was born in genocide,

0:34:210:34:26

so they are alike. They would be the same age today.

0:34:260:34:31

You can consider him just like as your father

0:34:360:34:38

because he says he looks alike. He feels like, yeah, he's like my kid.

0:34:380:34:46

He will see you like his son.

0:34:460:34:50

If you feel like crying, cry, because that's you.

0:35:170:35:23

I don't cry though. Usually, I just don't cry.

0:35:230:35:29

I told you I've never cried.

0:35:290:35:32

I saw my mum falling down, I didn't cry.

0:35:320:35:35

I didn't cry until the time we were burying her bones.

0:35:350:35:41

The shock of Nyarubuye makes Roger's journey to forgiveness

0:35:410:35:45

much harder than he first thought.

0:35:450:35:48

Do you understand their way of taking life positive

0:35:480:35:52

when someone has been through the kind of things they went though?

0:35:520:35:55

Yeah, it's one thing understanding how they can do that

0:35:550:35:59

and it's another thing actually doing it yourself.

0:35:590:36:01

Yeah, exactly but...

0:36:010:36:03

I can understand because I've seen my mum do it.

0:36:030:36:06

But it's another thing just doing it yourself, just like actually...

0:36:060:36:11

actually trying to say, OK, these bad things happen

0:36:110:36:14

but I've now got a smile on my face.

0:36:140:36:17

After their wedding,

0:36:210:36:22

Roger's parents moved to this neighbourhood in Kigali.

0:36:220:36:26

His mum was nine months pregnant.

0:36:270:36:30

We're now on our way to Nyakabanda where...

0:36:320:36:36

which was the place where my mum and dad had a house.

0:36:360:36:40

So, the place is really personal to me

0:36:420:36:44

because of what happened in '94

0:36:440:36:47

and the reason why it's just me and my mum in Norwich now,

0:36:470:36:51

not me, my mum and my dad.

0:36:510:36:53

He's been here once before.

0:37:000:37:02

This is the house where my father was killed

0:37:030:37:07

when I was just 9 days old.

0:37:070:37:09

I was born here.

0:37:090:37:14

It's easier to know what happened than think about what happened

0:37:140:37:20

but not really know that much.

0:37:200:37:23

As the genocide gathered pace, their situation was becoming desperate.

0:37:280:37:32

We stayed at home for two weeks, listening to the radio

0:37:360:37:40

and waiting to die.

0:37:400:37:42

Outside, the mayhem continued. Bodies are piling up in the street.

0:37:420:37:47

Dogs are howling and fighting over the bodies. The smell is abominable.

0:37:470:37:52

The noise is terrifying.

0:37:540:37:56

My uncle's not here because it was just a bit too much for him,

0:38:000:38:04

just remembering certain things, And I think, like again with my mum,

0:38:040:38:08

she's done her stuff, she's done her job and the same with Uncle.

0:38:080:38:12

And now, you know, it's time for my generation to start speaking out.

0:38:120:38:16

MUSIC: "Tiny Dancer" by DJ Ironik

0:38:160:38:18

# Hold me close, you're just too far

0:38:210:38:23

# Or I can bring you in so you rock with the stars... #

0:38:230:38:25

This is where my mum went to high school.

0:38:250:38:28

And this is where I probably would have gone as well

0:38:280:38:31

if my mum decided to stay here.

0:38:310:38:33

# Hold me closer and don't let go

0:38:330:38:34

# I'm falling so please just don't let go

0:38:340:38:37

# Hold me closer tiny dancer Hold me closer, just hold me closer

0:38:370:38:42

# Count the headlights on the highway

0:38:420:38:45

# Lay me down in sheets of linen Lay me down, just lay me down

0:38:470:38:51

# You had a busy day today

0:38:510:38:55

# I ain't stylish, I'm skylish

0:38:570:38:59

# Yes, my level's so up there

0:38:590:39:01

# My lady's adjacent. I smell her fragrance... #

0:39:010:39:04

Today was pretty hard for me, actually.

0:39:040:39:07

I saw clothes and saw shoes that were all different sizes, like.

0:39:080:39:12

Imagine seeing a shoe like that big.

0:39:120:39:18

So you know that's a kid.

0:39:180:39:20

That's a child who died there.

0:39:200:39:23

It's easy for someone to say, "Oh, forgive".

0:39:240:39:27

It's easy to say that if it's not you.

0:39:280:39:31

Nation.

0:39:380:39:40

Congregation.

0:39:420:39:44

There's only one more day before Roger is

0:39:440:39:46

due to perform with Miss JoJo at the memorial concert.

0:39:460:39:49

We need reconciliation on our space station.

0:39:510:39:54

That's freestyling for you, man. Ha, ha, ha!

0:39:540:39:59

If he's going to contribute to this act of national remembrance,

0:39:590:40:03

there's a lot to do.

0:40:030:40:05

I've got, like, half of my lyrics down, but I don't know where

0:40:050:40:09

I'm going to get the inspiration for the other half.

0:40:090:40:12

Writing them down won't be as hard as then having to remember them

0:40:120:40:16

in front of 30,000 people.

0:40:160:40:19

Does that make you nervous?

0:40:190:40:21

Does it make me nervous? Are you mad?

0:40:210:40:23

Of course, I'm bloody cacking it, mate!

0:40:230:40:26

Your smiling, yeah, but this isn't a joke.

0:40:260:40:29

This is serious and I'm cacking it. You should be helping me, man.

0:40:290:40:33

As remembrance week reaches its climax, the people of Rwanda

0:40:360:40:40

pay their respects at one of the largest mass graves in the country.

0:40:400:40:46

The remains of 250,000 people are buried here.

0:40:460:40:50

No-one can be sure because of the sheer number of dead.

0:40:520:40:57

But it's believed Roger's dad is among them.

0:40:570:40:59

He'd kept Roger and his mum safe for 30 days

0:41:020:41:06

before his luck finally ran out.

0:41:060:41:08

'They walked away, leaving John, Roger and me

0:41:100:41:13

'standing at our front gate.

0:41:130:41:15

'We stood there for five minutes without uttering a word.'

0:41:150:41:18

'I have no idea why he did not speak.

0:41:200:41:22

'Maybe he was still hoping that we would meet again,

0:41:220:41:25

'refusing to believe that his friends would kill him.

0:41:250:41:28

'The leader of the pack came back for John.

0:41:280:41:32

'It was the last time I saw John.

0:41:320:41:33

'Not long after that I heard the gunshots,

0:41:330:41:36

'and I knew that he was dead.'

0:41:360:41:38

It's extraordinary that Roger's mum could ever forgive.

0:41:440:41:47

This is a picture of my dad, and I've just clipped it on.

0:41:500:41:54

I feel quite happy because

0:41:540:41:58

we know that he's on the list now

0:41:580:42:02

of the nearly one million people who died.

0:42:020:42:06

One of those could be my dad.

0:42:060:42:09

I think I'll always remember this.

0:42:090:42:12

The person who killed my husband,

0:42:120:42:15

I forgive him, but it will be harder to see him.

0:42:150:42:19

Yeah, I forgive him.

0:42:220:42:23

Say someone else did something like that,

0:42:260:42:29

and you would never forgive them, it would get worse and worse, probably.

0:42:290:42:32

But on this journey, Roger the young man has hardened in his anger

0:42:320:42:37

and any thought of forgiveness is far from his mind.

0:42:370:42:41

It's a different kind of anger.

0:42:430:42:45

Now I understand quite a lot more.

0:42:450:42:48

I was a bit more innocent then.

0:42:480:42:52

Now, it's...

0:42:530:42:56

..it's an anger that I would like to act upon.

0:42:580:43:03

Do you know what I mean?

0:43:040:43:06

I think what I'm doing is a let-down to quite a lot of Rwandans,

0:43:060:43:09

because me saying that it's an anger that I would like to act upon

0:43:090:43:14

is detrimental to Rwanda now.

0:43:140:43:18

I hate to use the word revenge, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment.

0:43:180:43:22

It's dawning on Roger that Rwanda may be

0:43:310:43:34

further down the road to reconciliation than he is.

0:43:340:43:36

But he's determined not to let Miss JoJo down.

0:43:380:43:41

CHORAL SINGING

0:43:410:43:45

It's their final rehearsal.

0:43:510:43:53

The concert's tomorrow and he needs to nail his rap.

0:43:530:43:57

The lyrics I've got, that I've written, are mainly about,

0:43:570:44:02

you know, reconciliation and talking about how Rwanda was on its own

0:44:020:44:08

and how Rwanda has picked itself up, and Rwanda is moving on.

0:44:080:44:12

CHORAL SINGING

0:44:210:44:28

RAPS: I guess we're way too nice for the other side

0:44:400:44:43

We are kings, only crowns in our bloodlines

0:44:430:44:46

Born in Kigali, so, yeah, it's in my blood type

0:44:460:44:49

Hitting every shade of green light 'til we get it right

0:44:490:44:52

Yeah. And we ain't even made it yet

0:44:520:44:54

Three laps, check it, we ain't even break a sweat

0:44:540:44:57

Full course, and I'm caught, and we're self-taught

0:44:570:44:59

Half of y'all need to stand up with the city's rep

0:44:590:45:01

Tears won't stop 'til we're callin'

0:45:010:45:04

Make a couple Gs in the south now they hate him

0:45:040:45:06

No worries, no woes, I'm my own thing

0:45:060:45:09

Solo, this is how it's got me feelin'.

0:45:090:45:11

CHORAL SINGING

0:45:110:45:15

APPLAUSE

0:45:330:45:35

That went really well.

0:45:360:45:38

I was really nervous, and yeah, I'm happy with it.

0:45:380:45:40

-All right.

-All right, bye.

0:45:400:45:43

You know, you're going to be good tonight.

0:45:450:45:47

-Me, I'm going to be like, Wooh!

-Nah, man.

0:45:470:45:50

I've got to be honest, I'm absolutely cacking it!

0:45:500:45:53

I'm bricking it!

0:45:540:45:56

I don't know how many words I can say to tell you how scared I am.

0:45:560:45:59

Eight million people, including the President, of this whole country.

0:45:590:46:04

Yeah.

0:46:040:46:06

I might choke! Oh, my gosh.

0:46:080:46:11

It's Roger's last day in Rwanda and he wanted to see whether

0:46:160:46:19

the spirit of reconciliation is making a difference for ordinary people.

0:46:190:46:23

Since the genocide, Tutsi and Hutu have been encouraged to live alongside each other in villages.

0:46:250:46:32

Jacqueline Mukamana is a Tutsi.

0:46:340:46:36

When she was 16 years old,

0:46:360:46:39

a gang killed all 12 members of her family with machetes and swords.

0:46:390:46:43

Did you find it hard to...

0:46:430:46:46

forgive the people who did this to your family?

0:46:460:46:49

TRANSLATOR: God helped. She prayed first about it, and then

0:46:520:46:56

it became easy for her to forgive.

0:46:560:46:59

How long did it take for them to ask for their pardon or forgiveness?

0:46:590:47:04

TRANSLATOR: It took them a long time for them to get the courage

0:47:050:47:10

to come forward and to ask for forgiveness,

0:47:100:47:13

and she admits that it was about a year that it took them

0:47:130:47:18

to come and ask for forgiveness.

0:47:180:47:21

Is there any chance that we can now meet the perpetrators and ask her if it's OK?

0:47:210:47:27

Frederick Kaqzigwemo was in a Hutu gang that killed seven Tutsis in one day.

0:47:410:47:47

Normally, an attack group had a leader

0:47:470:47:51

and the people he led were supposed to go and do the atrocities.

0:47:510:47:56

So he was not the leader, but was part of the group that was led.

0:47:560:48:02

He served nine years for his part in the genocide.

0:48:030:48:07

You guys are living side-by-side and you're neighbours now.

0:48:070:48:09

How close is your relationship now as just people who are part of this village?

0:48:090:48:15

TRANSLATOR: Our relationship is good.

0:48:180:48:21

Our children live happily together, which has a long journey to make.

0:48:210:48:25

She can leave her children here and they will be taken care of here in my home.

0:48:250:48:30

Likewise mine, if I have a long task to do away from home,

0:48:300:48:33

I can leave my children in her home and they will be taken care of.

0:48:330:48:38

They will be given food and looked after properly.

0:48:380:48:41

So we are living well as neighbours.

0:48:410:48:44

OK. Cool. Thank you very much.

0:48:440:48:48

He has something he wants to add.

0:48:500:48:52

-He would like to add something, as you who lost your...

-father...

0:48:540:48:59

..your family, your father.

0:48:590:49:01

TRANSLATOR: I, therefore, in front of all these people here

0:49:070:49:11

ask you for forgiveness

0:49:110:49:13

and if you are able to forgive me, I would greatly appreciate.

0:49:130:49:19

-Oh, OK. Um...could you translate this?

-Yes.

0:49:190:49:23

Er...

0:49:230:49:27

..because you've been so kind and you are doing a great thing,

0:49:280:49:33

and you should carry on doing the thing you're doing,

0:49:330:49:36

and in terms of asking for forgiveness generally, then...yeah,

0:49:360:49:43

I forgive you solely.

0:49:430:49:45

But in terms of asking for forgiveness for my father's death,

0:49:450:49:49

I can't because that wasn't your fault.

0:49:490:49:53

Cool, man. Cheers, mate.

0:49:540:49:57

Yeah, thanks.

0:49:570:49:58

Brilliant. Cool, man.

0:50:080:50:10

She's thanking you for forgiving.

0:50:120:50:14

Oh, OK.

0:50:140:50:16

It's a real breakthrough for Roger

0:50:170:50:20

that he can bring himself to forgive a Hutu killer, but he's still

0:50:200:50:24

a long way from offering the same to the men who murdered his father.

0:50:240:50:28

He said, "Can you forgive me?"

0:50:280:50:30

and I said, you know, "Generally, I can forgive you."

0:50:300:50:33

'I couldn't say I forgive you for hurting my dad because that's too deep.'

0:50:330:50:38

But I hate to say, if the people who did whatever they did to my dad were confronted with me,

0:50:380:50:45

I wouldn't treat them with the same respect.

0:50:450:50:48

If you're told to kill someone on the street and it's because they're a Tutsi, OK, that's disgusting.

0:50:480:50:55

But if you know that person and you're friends with their wife,

0:50:550:50:59

and their newborn is coming a long way,

0:50:590:51:02

who's just about to be born and you know that,

0:51:020:51:06

I can't understand that, so I can't forgive them.

0:51:060:51:09

I mean, I hate to say it, but I'd love to see them in body bags and...

0:51:090:51:12

It's horrible.

0:51:120:51:13

I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth.

0:51:130:51:16

Ah!

0:51:160:51:18

There's an hour to go before the remembrance concert.

0:51:280:51:31

-Is that for the concert?

-Yeah.

0:51:350:51:39

What, that huge sign out there?

0:51:390:51:42

-Oh, you doughnut!

-HE LAUGHS

0:51:420:51:44

Banners up, all everywhere.

0:51:470:51:49

Some big old sign in the middle of the whole square, man.

0:51:510:51:56

If there's any more, I'm going to go mad.

0:51:560:51:58

HE SINGS

0:51:580:52:00

You're not worried about it? The rhythm?

0:52:110:52:16

-No.

-He's a rapper.

-I'm fine.

0:52:160:52:18

This is bad.

0:52:270:52:29

I want to go home, man. I'm nervous.

0:52:290:52:33

Nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous.

0:52:330:52:35

Roger is impressed by how far Rwanda has moved on since the genocide

0:52:400:52:44

and is honoured to play his part in the spirit of reconciliation.

0:52:440:52:48

# You will always be with us

0:52:570:53:00

# Even though they think you're now far away

0:53:000:53:07

# Memories will give us strength to go on

0:53:070:53:12

# Never again will there be such a tragedy

0:53:120:53:18

# I've got tears in my eyes

0:53:180:53:20

# But I've got pain in my heart... #

0:53:200:53:25

THEY ALL SING

0:53:270:53:30

RAPS: # Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side

0:53:390:53:41

# I am king Only crowns in our bloodline

0:53:410:53:44

# A Class genes So yes in my blood tie

0:53:440:53:47

# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right, right

0:53:470:53:52

# And we ain't even made it yet

0:53:520:53:54

# Free lapse check it We ain't even break it yet

0:53:540:53:57

# Full course on a court and we're self-taught

0:53:570:54:00

# Half y'all need to stand up with the city's rep

0:54:000:54:04

# Oh... #

0:54:040:54:06

# There'll be tears in my eyes... #

0:54:130:54:16

It wasn't one of those concerts where you're like, "Yeah, get some energy up."

0:54:170:54:23

This was a very like...

0:54:230:54:26

A really reflective, sort of vibe.

0:54:260:54:30

And it was really...

0:54:300:54:32

I wouldn't say moody, but...

0:54:320:54:34

..it was just a really mellow sort of thing.

0:54:360:54:38

Even when we finished, I think there was no clapping, nothing.

0:54:380:54:42

It was literally just like... you know.

0:54:420:54:45

That was with all the acts, you know. It was just like,

0:54:450:54:47

they do their performance, and then after the crowd just like...

0:54:470:54:52

This is it, it's done, finished.

0:54:520:54:56

Yeah, man. Take it easy.

0:54:560:54:59

Signing out officially.

0:54:590:55:02

Hours before he flies home, Roger is visiting the place where he and his mum were rescued.

0:55:150:55:22

After 100 days in hiding, she managed to escape from the city

0:55:250:55:30

carrying her genocide baby up Mount Kigali.

0:55:300:55:35

It was raining heavily.

0:55:380:55:41

I climbed the steep slopes.

0:55:410:55:43

My legs hurt and my heart pounded.

0:55:430:55:46

I was headed west out of the city.

0:55:460:55:49

Finally at dawn, atop Mount Kigali,

0:55:490:55:52

I saw three soldiers appear out of the mist.

0:55:520:55:56

For the first time, I could face the morning without fearing that

0:55:560:56:00

it would be my last.

0:56:000:56:02

It's been a remarkable journey.

0:56:030:56:06

Roger left his mum behind to see for himself the horror of the genocide.

0:56:060:56:11

He's met survivors...

0:56:140:56:15

..and killers...

0:56:180:56:19

..and come closer than ever before to a decision about forgiveness.

0:56:230:56:27

But he can't yet bring himself to forgive the people who killed his dad.

0:56:330:56:37

In terms of forgiveness, it's not a straightforward thing

0:56:390:56:42

as someone stole my car keys and my car, or something, and now I've got them back, so I forgive them.

0:56:420:56:47

It's not like that. It's just very complicated.

0:56:470:56:51

It would be quite weird seeing this again in another ten years,

0:56:570:57:01

seeing the difference between the me then and the me now.

0:57:010:57:04

I'm young, I've got a couple of years yet, I'm still only 16,

0:57:040:57:08

so hopefully that anger will...

0:57:080:57:13

somehow fizzle out.

0:57:130:57:14

-Hello!

-Hello.

0:57:340:57:36

Off, off, off, off!

0:57:360:57:40

That's it. Go, go! Stop watching this documentary and do something fun.

0:57:400:57:44

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