Browse content similar to Roger: Genocide Baby. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:05 | |
Roger Nsengiyumva is a rising star. He's only 16 and lives with his mum. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
But he's already got one big movie credit to his name. | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
So it's either all of us or none of us. We're a team. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:16 | |
-Roger has grown up in England. -I shouldn't really be here. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:20 | |
I'm only really here because of what my mum did for me. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
But he was born in Rwanda during one of the bloodiest episodes in | 0:00:23 | 0:00:27 | |
human history, when one tribe attempted to wipe out another. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
Roger's dad was murdered, one of a million casualties. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:35 | |
But his mum survived, hiding her genocide baby from the death squads for weeks on end. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:40 | |
If anyone read that their mum went through 100 days looking after them | 0:00:40 | 0:00:46 | |
in complete horror, I'm sure anyone would feel, like, complete admiration. | 0:00:46 | 0:00:50 | |
Now Roger's going back to Rwanda, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
to see for himself the horror he was too young to remember. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
If you're told to kill someone on the street | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
and it's because they're a Tutsi, I can't understand that. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
To draw comfort from fellow survivors. | 0:01:06 | 0:01:09 | |
He will see you like his son. | 0:01:09 | 0:01:12 | |
And come face to face with the killers. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
I mean I hate to say it but I'd love to see them in body bags. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:24 | |
It's horrible, I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth. | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
Rwanda is recovering from genocide, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
but can Roger forgive the men who killed his dad? | 0:01:30 | 0:01:34 | |
I hate to use the word revenge, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment. | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
HE RAPS: I'm the man of the hour, | 0:01:43 | 0:01:46 | |
I got swagger like Austin Powers. | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
Roger's got the world at his feet. | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
Already a successful actor and now an aspiring rapper. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:58 | |
If I ever got cold feet, | 0:01:58 | 0:01:59 | |
Tell them break the ice like a turtle on a British beach. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
But it's the past that intrigues his mates. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
The story of the Rwandan genocide in 1994. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
In Britain, people don't really know about the genocide, do they? | 0:02:12 | 0:02:16 | |
Especially not people our age? I know we didn't before we met you. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
If you can explain like to me, | 0:02:19 | 0:02:21 | |
what actually is the Rwandan genocide, what happens? | 0:02:21 | 0:02:25 | |
I've actually got some footage here, quite hard hitting stuff. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:30 | |
Let me give you a quick... | 0:02:30 | 0:02:32 | |
This one, this one's a bit hard, hard hitting, so... | 0:02:35 | 0:02:40 | |
'As we approached the church, Frank became silent. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
'He'd been here before and knew what lay ahead. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:46 | |
'I had seen war before, had seen the face of cruelty, | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
'but it belonged in a nightmare zone, where my capacity | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
'to understand, to rationalise, was overwhelmed.' | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
-Is that a person? -Yes, it's a person, it's a real person. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:10 | |
'The victims, all of them Tutsis, | 0:03:12 | 0:03:14 | |
'had gone to the church in search of sanctuary. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
'Instead the house of God became a killing ground. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:21 | |
'You don't just see death here, you feel it and you smell it. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:27 | |
'In a classroom, a mother and her children made easy targets.' | 0:03:29 | 0:03:32 | |
-You know, we saw a kid on that, didn't we, you saw the kid? -Yeah. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
Yes, easily could've been me. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
I mean, this is quite hard, | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
because you just see things like this in movies. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
But trying to imagine that in real life is... | 0:03:55 | 0:03:58 | |
Personally from that, yeah, it would take me at least a long time to forgive, | 0:03:58 | 0:04:03 | |
cos that looked like a woman and a child. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
-It was, yeah. -That's horrible to watch, to be honest. | 0:04:06 | 0:04:10 | |
I expected a reaction from my friends, | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
but that was, that really hit home. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
I mean, it wasn't 40 years back, this was 16 years ago. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:21 | |
If he forgives, then that would be amazing, | 0:04:22 | 0:04:25 | |
but if he doesn't forgive, that will sort of still be like, | 0:04:25 | 0:04:28 | |
that's fair enough, I can see why you don't forgive. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
He'd be a strong boy if he did forgive. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
After the genocide, Roger and his mum, Illuminee, | 0:04:39 | 0:04:43 | |
escaped to Norwich where they set up a memorial to his father. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:46 | |
When we used to come here, I was always really silent, | 0:04:58 | 0:05:03 | |
so this is a first actually. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
They don't actually know where he's buried. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:12 | |
Seven years ago, they went back to Rwanda to find out. | 0:05:12 | 0:05:15 | |
They'd use machetes to cut someone up. | 0:05:17 | 0:05:21 | |
And a club to whack them around the head. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:25 | |
It makes me feel really angry. That's all I can really say. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
And it was on that visit, that Illuminee made a remarkable admission. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:41 | |
So now Roger is returning to the land of his birth, | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
to find out how Rwanda has recovered | 0:05:50 | 0:05:52 | |
and to work out whether forgiveness is for him. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:56 | |
This is Mum's diary about the events, what happened, what she saw, | 0:05:59 | 0:06:06 | |
what she heard. | 0:06:06 | 0:06:07 | |
"We were woken by the sound of gunfire. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:12 | |
"People were screaming for their lives as they were savagely cut down. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
"Roger was born after 20 hours labour. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
"I was so lonely, I wanted to die. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
"I asked him to kill me. | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
"Anything but rape. He cocked the pistol and fired. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
"There was a click, but no bang. He'd run out of bullets. | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
My mum's forgiven, like, all what happened to her | 0:06:53 | 0:06:56 | |
and it's taken her time, but she's now moved on from what happened. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
So, I'm still kind of unsure really, as to forgiving | 0:07:01 | 0:07:07 | |
and not forgiving, but I know eventually, | 0:07:07 | 0:07:10 | |
eventually I do want to just rest my hand and, yeah, I've forgiven everything. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:15 | |
But, I'm still in the middle, man. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
Hi, how are you doing? | 0:07:19 | 0:07:21 | |
It's Roger here with a quick video, the night before I leave. | 0:07:21 | 0:07:27 | |
Now packing my bags, let's have a look at my bag situation. | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
Right, I've got some nice cotton rich socks. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:37 | |
If you haven't got cotton rich socks then I don't know what your game is. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
You must have seriously... | 0:07:41 | 0:07:42 | |
In Rwanda it doesn't rain a lot | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
but when it does, you're going to know about it. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:48 | |
So, a raincoat is essential. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:51 | |
Mum, I still have yet to hear from you. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:54 | |
What do you think about my journey? | 0:07:54 | 0:07:56 | |
It's good, you're going to learn more, but I will miss you. | 0:07:56 | 0:08:02 | |
I'm excited, as you would be, going to see, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:07 | |
going to see some nice weather, it's Rwanda. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:11 | |
At the same time, pretty nervous, pretty nervous. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:17 | |
Going to meet quite a few people that are going to make me think about forgiveness, | 0:08:17 | 0:08:23 | |
and just how life is in Rwanda day to day really, | 0:08:23 | 0:08:28 | |
because I haven't seen a lot of that. | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
Good night, I'm tired. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
All right, cheers, see you at the airport. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:37 | |
# I'm coming home | 0:08:38 | 0:08:41 | |
# I'm coming home | 0:08:41 | 0:08:42 | |
# Tell the world I'm coming home. # | 0:08:42 | 0:08:47 | |
4,000 odd miles, I don't know how many hours. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:52 | |
Easily a day, we had a delay at London. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
Rwanda is the size of Wales, | 0:08:56 | 0:09:00 | |
but with 8 million people, | 0:09:00 | 0:09:02 | |
it's one of the most densely populated countries in the world. | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
Wow! Here we are, ha-ha-ha, finally in Kigali, yes, yes, boss. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:14 | |
Eustache, is Roger's mum's brother and his favourite uncle. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:24 | |
# Let the rain wash away | 0:09:24 | 0:09:27 | |
# All the pain of yesterday | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
# I know my kingdom awaits | 0:09:30 | 0:09:33 | |
# They've forgiven my mistakes | 0:09:33 | 0:09:35 | |
# I'm coming home | 0:09:35 | 0:09:37 | |
# Coming home | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
# Tell the world that I'm coming home. # | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
It's nice to see you again. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:50 | |
-It's all the same. -Yes, no change, you know. | 0:09:50 | 0:09:55 | |
Eustache lost members of his own family. | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
But all 50 of Roger's dad's family were wiped out. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:01 | |
It's a very important time for Rwanda, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
the 17th anniversary of the genocide. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:51 | |
There's a week of national events, ending with a remembrance concert. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
Thank you, guys. | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
So they teach reconciliation, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:26 | |
and they talk about the genocide in their song. | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
It's not any old concert. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:33 | |
It's a very important concert about genocide. Is this it, this one? | 0:11:33 | 0:11:39 | |
And she's the person? | 0:11:41 | 0:11:43 | |
-Is she really popular here? -Yes, yes, she's really popular. -OK, yeah. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
I need to meet her. | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
She says her favourite place is 'Schokola' so... | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
In Remembrance week, Rwandans reflect on the slaughter | 0:12:14 | 0:12:17 | |
of the one million people from the Tutsi tribe, | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
victims of the extremists from their rival tribe, the Hutu. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:25 | |
Genocide is defined as the extermination of a race. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:29 | |
In Rwanda, over half the Tutsi tribe were killed in 100 days. | 0:12:29 | 0:12:34 | |
That's six people every minute, of every hour, of every day. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:41 | |
Inside Kigali's national stadium, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
the first memorial event is getting underway. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:59 | |
Within minutes, the grief is overwhelming. | 0:13:18 | 0:13:20 | |
Today, I came to say, your memory lives with my spirit. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:30 | |
That your picture is still drawn on my heart. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:33 | |
"Time heals all wounds," they say. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
But there will never come a day | 0:13:37 | 0:13:41 | |
when I don't miss seeing your smiling face. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
It's just happening everywhere. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:48 | |
WOMAN SINGS | 0:14:04 | 0:14:06 | |
PEOPLE SCREAM | 0:14:08 | 0:14:10 | |
# We all need to fight. # | 0:14:23 | 0:14:28 | |
It may be 17 years on, | 0:14:30 | 0:14:31 | |
but for everyone in Rwanda, the pain is just as raw. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:35 | |
-This is where Mum and Dad got married, yeah? -Yes. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:54 | |
The wedding of Roger's parents took place four days before the start of the genocide. | 0:14:54 | 0:14:59 | |
Picture a flag basically, just wearing a flag, | 0:15:04 | 0:15:08 | |
just like really colourful, got flowers on it and stuff. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
Yes, I've seen her wearing it before. It's really nice. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
I've kind of got a picture of how it was. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:16 | |
-Did Dad drink some beer? -Yeah. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:35 | |
"Our wedding was a wonderful occasion. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
"I was very happy and wore a white dress | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
"even though I was eight months pregnant. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:50 | |
"John looked so handsome in his black suit. | 0:15:50 | 0:15:53 | |
"At last, I thought, all the people I love are happy together and under one roof. | 0:15:53 | 0:15:58 | |
"Lot's of John's friends, both Hutu and Tutsi, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
"joined us and drank to our future happiness." | 0:16:00 | 0:16:03 | |
But many of those so-called friends were Hutus, | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
and one month later, they would hunt down and kill Roger's dad. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:15 | |
What happened was nice, you know, marriage and everything, but... | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
he's not here, so it's not nice to look back on. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:30 | |
So, yeah, I'm not allowed to swear, am I? | 0:16:30 | 0:16:35 | |
No? | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
I'm tempted. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
No, it's not nice, mate, not at all. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:42 | |
Next stop is to find out how the younger generation has coped with so much loss. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:51 | |
Last night became quite clear to me how important this week is for Rwandans. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:56 | |
So, today we're on our way to meet Miss JoJo, | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
which should be very exciting. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
She's obviously a very influential person. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
Not only is Miss JoJo famous, she's also a Tutsi like Roger | 0:17:08 | 0:17:13 | |
and another survivor of the genocide. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:16 | |
She's seen stuff and now she can tell the world about it, | 0:17:16 | 0:17:19 | |
so it'll be really interesting to have a conversation with her | 0:17:19 | 0:17:23 | |
and talk to her about stuff, so, let's go, let's see her, Schokola! | 0:17:23 | 0:17:26 | |
-Hey, how you doing? -Hey. -Nice to meet you. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:39 | |
I was looking forward to seeing you, welcome. | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
I've heard too much, too much. I had to come and meet you. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:46 | |
At the age of just 11, Miss JoJo witnessed her mother's murder. | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
The sin, as in...? | 0:18:04 | 0:18:05 | |
-You must have been so scared. -Of course, I mean, I was like... | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
In terms of forgiveness, I said I was in the middle. How do you feel? | 0:18:55 | 0:19:01 | |
So, I've arrived at quite a special time of year. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
What does this concert mean to people? | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
What do you do in the concert other than just the music? | 0:19:27 | 0:19:31 | |
-Yeah, I'd love that. -Really? -Yeah, honestly. | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
Yes, I'm very excited now! | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
I just wanted to know if you were excited about it or just cool. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:19 | |
-It's cool, yeah? -Mmm, very cool. -You going to make it. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:22 | |
-Is that them now? -Yeah, this is them. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
-This is one of the best studios we have. -OK. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:29 | |
There's a growing hip-hop scene in Rwanda | 0:20:31 | 0:20:33 | |
and music is overcoming tribal hatred. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
Wow! That's a remix, isn't it? | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
-What were your lyrics just now, what were they about? -Street kid. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
-Street kid? -Yeah. Just street life, you know. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:58 | |
-He does hip-hop. -You do hip-hop? -Mmm-hmm. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
-Yeah. You could give them some. -Do some free style. -Free style? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
Yeah, some free style, man, do something. | 0:21:06 | 0:21:09 | |
-You're putting me on the spot. -Sing anything, we just want to hear you. -OK. | 0:21:09 | 0:21:14 | |
You have to put Ryder in the zone. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:17 | |
So if I do something and then Ryder spits something. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:19 | |
OK, no problem. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:20 | |
I'm going to do some old stuff, man. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:25 | |
Ryder. Miss JoJo. The Brain. | 0:21:29 | 0:21:36 | |
# Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
# I am king, only crowns in my blood lines | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
# A-class genes, so yes, in my blood tie | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
# Right, and we ain't even made it yet | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
# Three laps, check it, we don't even take a break | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
# School kids on a who kid, says a street kid, pass it to the kid. # | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT | 0:22:00 | 0:22:02 | |
-I was feeling that. -You should do one. | 0:22:19 | 0:22:24 | |
You can use music to heal people and to move on, too. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:30 | |
People need to understand that. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:31 | |
Yeah, I think that nothing can be done without music. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:35 | |
Music is everywhere, it's something which goes like, it's like breath, | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
you know, breath is everywhere, in the air... | 0:22:39 | 0:22:42 | |
When people are crying, they use music. When people are laughing, they use music. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:47 | |
OH! | 0:22:47 | 0:22:48 | |
What's up, man? | 0:22:52 | 0:22:53 | |
One of Roger's best friends lives in Kigali. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
Yves Dusenge has just heard his mate's in town. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
I came to show you around town. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
-Yo, man. -You grow taller every day. -Aw, man, this is crazy! | 0:23:03 | 0:23:08 | |
They became firm friends on the set of Africa United. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:16 | |
When's the next bus we're getting? | 0:23:19 | 0:23:22 | |
Together, they want to explore the life they might have shared | 0:23:24 | 0:23:28 | |
if it wasn't for the genocide. | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
-Here we are. -Yeah. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:38 | |
-This is the place, yeah? -Yeah. This is where my mum grew up. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:49 | |
She talks about it in here, man. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
Let's go and greet some people up there. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:55 | |
Life in rural Africa is a far cry from England. | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
It's weird to think that she'd be in this sort of environment. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:07 | |
This is so different to back home, but my mum's more surprised... | 0:24:08 | 0:24:15 | |
She was more surprised when we moved to Norwich really, you know. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:18 | |
She always had like two coats on and stuff like that. | 0:24:18 | 0:24:22 | |
I'm telling that you just come to greet them and visit them. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:26 | |
Can you tell them I'm really, like, | 0:24:26 | 0:24:29 | |
I really want to see where my mum got her water and stuff like that, | 0:24:29 | 0:24:32 | |
because she talks about it quite a lot in here. | 0:24:32 | 0:24:35 | |
HE SPEAKS IN LOCAL DIALECT | 0:24:35 | 0:24:38 | |
He doesn't look too happy. THEY LAUGH | 0:24:40 | 0:24:42 | |
We're dragging this poor guy out. He doesn't even need to get water today. But it's all good. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:49 | |
So we're filling everything up and carrying it. | 0:24:49 | 0:24:53 | |
What about, I've seen some guys with trolleys. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
-No, we carry them by hand. -THEY LAUGH | 0:24:57 | 0:25:01 | |
OK, let's go, let's go. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
How old are you? | 0:25:04 | 0:25:07 | |
-20 years old? For real, you're 20 years old? -Uh-huh. -Damn! | 0:25:10 | 0:25:15 | |
The amazing thing about this friendship | 0:25:23 | 0:25:25 | |
is that is rises above tribal differences. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
Roger, a Tutsi, Yves, a Hutu - the tribe who killed his dad. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:34 | |
Tutsi may be tall, quite slim. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:39 | |
The head shape might be quite thin like mine is, | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
nose might be small, and Hutu perceived to be quite stocky. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:48 | |
I don't feel anger towards my generation of Hutus | 0:25:48 | 0:25:54 | |
because we were babies when this happened. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
So I don't think, you know, mine and Yves' generation | 0:25:57 | 0:26:02 | |
should feel any guilt to what happened because of their tribe | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
and at the same time, you know, I shouldn't feel any anger towards | 0:26:06 | 0:26:11 | |
people of my generation who are Hutus because we were just babies, man. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
It's just, it's up to us now, so I try to do something here, | 0:26:14 | 0:26:21 | |
I am trying to build something better, something good. | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
Yves, man, we've got issues. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:32 | |
Look at my shoes. I should have come in something more humble, man. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:36 | |
-Humble? -Yeah, man. -You can remove them. | 0:26:38 | 0:26:41 | |
I think both of us don't fit in at all, man. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
We don't fit in at all today, man. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:46 | |
So let's just remove our shoes. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:48 | |
Then we'll just look crazy. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:51 | |
"Who are these guys coming into our place and whipping their shoes off?" | 0:26:51 | 0:26:56 | |
We'll see if I get laughed at. Oh, OK. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:01 | |
It's not that bad but carrying this for... | 0:27:01 | 0:27:04 | |
Do you reckon my mum had the same jerry can, this size? | 0:27:04 | 0:27:08 | |
-Yeah, I think so. -So what's the traditional way of carrying this? | 0:27:08 | 0:27:12 | |
Do I put it on my shoulder? | 0:27:12 | 0:27:13 | |
Yo, this is a new walk! | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
You'll have kids in England | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
that are going to be walking around like this soon, watch. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
It's the new dance. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:27:24 | 0:27:26 | |
MUSIC: "Paper Planes" by MIA | 0:27:30 | 0:27:32 | |
# I fly like paper Get high like planes | 0:27:32 | 0:27:35 | |
# If you catch me at the border I got visas in my name | 0:27:35 | 0:27:38 | |
# If you come around here I make 'em all day... # | 0:27:38 | 0:27:41 | |
Back in Kigali, Yves knows what it takes to be cool in today's Rwanda. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:46 | |
Yo, man, this is perfect for you(!) | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
-Yeah? -No, man. Looks good on you, man(!) Looks good on you(!) | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
Whatever, whatever. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
-These are nice, what do you think? -Try these on. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:03 | |
Quite a lot of people in Rwanda wear these. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:05 | |
When I was little, my mum bought me a little pair, baby size. | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
I miss these. I haven't had these in a while. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:11 | |
That's not true, that's not true. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:19 | |
Roger's beginning to feel like an outsider, an Englishman in Africa. | 0:28:23 | 0:28:28 | |
Yo, man, that's not the same colour. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:32 | |
I'm buying two different boots. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
He's taking me for a clown. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
-That's too much man, that's too much. -He's speaking English, so... | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
If I kept quiet, if I kept quiet then... | 0:28:43 | 0:28:45 | |
-Oh! Yo, man, check that out. -It's nice, yeah? | 0:28:45 | 0:28:50 | |
Yo, man, let's go. Too nice. Come on, let's go. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:59 | |
Good job, good job, good job. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:02 | |
You've got to ask the question, | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
is it, sort of like, unique that you two are friends | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
and I really want to say it's not. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
Like, why should it be? | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
But I don't know. I mean, I don't think so. I hope not. | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
But it's definitely not a strange thing. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
It definitely doesn't feel strange that me and him... | 0:29:27 | 0:29:32 | |
feel like brothers, man, so... | 0:29:32 | 0:29:35 | |
Good morning to you, Kigali, how you doing? | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
Hope you're good and well. | 0:29:48 | 0:29:50 | |
I told you today we are hanging out with stars. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
-JoJo, Roger, what's up? -What's up, man? | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
Welcome to Kigali, welcome to CFM. How does it feel to be home now? | 0:29:55 | 0:29:59 | |
-This is home, right? -I was born in Kigali, this is home, man. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
So it feels good, especially being joined by my new sister, | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
newly found sister. | 0:30:06 | 0:30:08 | |
-JoJo, why are you here? -Me, I am hanging out with my young bro here. | 0:30:08 | 0:30:14 | |
We've been with him just rediscovering Rwanda a little bit. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:18 | |
-OK. -We're introducing him to the country, making him love it more. | 0:30:18 | 0:30:22 | |
-OK. So, this is not the first time you've come back home. -No, it's not. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:26 | |
Is there a big difference between that time you were here and now? | 0:30:26 | 0:30:30 | |
In England, yeah, you speak the language | 0:30:30 | 0:30:32 | |
-but you feel kind of outside. -Still left out. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:34 | |
Yeah, and I came here and I still feel left out because I started talking | 0:30:34 | 0:30:38 | |
and they were like, "What are you saying?" | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
A song by Chris Brown called Champion, | 0:30:41 | 0:30:43 | |
that's what we're going to start off right now, | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
so keep it locked on 89.7 Contact FM. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
In 1994, radio in Rwanda was a much more sinister device. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:58 | |
There's a history of trouble between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes, | 0:31:17 | 0:31:21 | |
but things got much worse after the Hutus gained power in the 1960s. | 0:31:21 | 0:31:25 | |
Tutsi fears became a reality in 1994 at a church in the village of Nyarubuye, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:34 | |
where thousands sought sanctuary from the death squads. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:38 | |
Ferdinand Rwakayigamba brought his wife and three children here. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:51 | |
The memories of what happened next still haunt him. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:54 | |
JOJO TRANSLATES: "So they started killing people here. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
"They were using everything, they were shooting with guns, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
"they were throwing grenades. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
"They were raping women and afterwards they were killing them. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:14 | |
"And then if someone is wounded but is not dead, | 0:32:18 | 0:32:22 | |
"they would come and find out and kill them." | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
He was married, he had three kids, | 0:32:24 | 0:32:28 | |
and everybody was killed in the genocide. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:34 | |
In three days, 25,000 men, women and children were slaughtered here. | 0:32:40 | 0:32:47 | |
Many were tortured and beaten to death with domestic tools. | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
The scenes were repeated at sites all over Rwanda. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:13 | |
The slaughter only came to an end | 0:33:18 | 0:33:20 | |
when the killers found the stench overwhelming. | 0:33:20 | 0:33:24 | |
A BBC news crew brought these horrors to the attention of the world. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:35 | |
You don't just see death here - you feel it and you smell it. | 0:33:36 | 0:33:40 | |
It is as if all the good and life in the atmosphere had been sucked out | 0:33:40 | 0:33:44 | |
and replaced with the stench of evil. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
JOJO TRANSLATES: He goes sometimes in his room, he closes the doors, | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
and everything, where nobody sees him. He cries his pain, | 0:34:07 | 0:34:11 | |
-he feels bad, he feels the anger. -Yeah. | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
He cries but after that, he goes out of that room, you know, | 0:34:13 | 0:34:18 | |
to look for life and to take it. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
He had a kid who was six months old and Roger was born in genocide, | 0:34:21 | 0:34:26 | |
so they are alike. They would be the same age today. | 0:34:26 | 0:34:31 | |
You can consider him just like as your father | 0:34:36 | 0:34:38 | |
because he says he looks alike. He feels like, yeah, he's like my kid. | 0:34:38 | 0:34:46 | |
He will see you like his son. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
If you feel like crying, cry, because that's you. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:23 | |
I don't cry though. Usually, I just don't cry. | 0:35:23 | 0:35:29 | |
I told you I've never cried. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
I saw my mum falling down, I didn't cry. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:35 | |
I didn't cry until the time we were burying her bones. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:41 | |
The shock of Nyarubuye makes Roger's journey to forgiveness | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
much harder than he first thought. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
Do you understand their way of taking life positive | 0:35:48 | 0:35:52 | |
when someone has been through the kind of things they went though? | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
Yeah, it's one thing understanding how they can do that | 0:35:55 | 0:35:59 | |
and it's another thing actually doing it yourself. | 0:35:59 | 0:36:01 | |
Yeah, exactly but... | 0:36:01 | 0:36:03 | |
I can understand because I've seen my mum do it. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
But it's another thing just doing it yourself, just like actually... | 0:36:06 | 0:36:11 | |
actually trying to say, OK, these bad things happen | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
but I've now got a smile on my face. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
After their wedding, | 0:36:21 | 0:36:22 | |
Roger's parents moved to this neighbourhood in Kigali. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:26 | |
His mum was nine months pregnant. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:30 | |
We're now on our way to Nyakabanda where... | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
which was the place where my mum and dad had a house. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:40 | |
So, the place is really personal to me | 0:36:42 | 0:36:44 | |
because of what happened in '94 | 0:36:44 | 0:36:47 | |
and the reason why it's just me and my mum in Norwich now, | 0:36:47 | 0:36:51 | |
not me, my mum and my dad. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
He's been here once before. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:02 | |
This is the house where my father was killed | 0:37:03 | 0:37:07 | |
when I was just 9 days old. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:09 | |
I was born here. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:14 | |
It's easier to know what happened than think about what happened | 0:37:14 | 0:37:20 | |
but not really know that much. | 0:37:20 | 0:37:23 | |
As the genocide gathered pace, their situation was becoming desperate. | 0:37:28 | 0:37:32 | |
We stayed at home for two weeks, listening to the radio | 0:37:36 | 0:37:40 | |
and waiting to die. | 0:37:40 | 0:37:42 | |
Outside, the mayhem continued. Bodies are piling up in the street. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:47 | |
Dogs are howling and fighting over the bodies. The smell is abominable. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:52 | |
The noise is terrifying. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:56 | |
My uncle's not here because it was just a bit too much for him, | 0:38:00 | 0:38:04 | |
just remembering certain things, And I think, like again with my mum, | 0:38:04 | 0:38:08 | |
she's done her stuff, she's done her job and the same with Uncle. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
And now, you know, it's time for my generation to start speaking out. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
MUSIC: "Tiny Dancer" by DJ Ironik | 0:38:16 | 0:38:18 | |
# Hold me close, you're just too far | 0:38:21 | 0:38:23 | |
# Or I can bring you in so you rock with the stars... # | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
This is where my mum went to high school. | 0:38:25 | 0:38:28 | |
And this is where I probably would have gone as well | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
if my mum decided to stay here. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
# Hold me closer and don't let go | 0:38:33 | 0:38:34 | |
# I'm falling so please just don't let go | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
# Hold me closer tiny dancer Hold me closer, just hold me closer | 0:38:37 | 0:38:42 | |
# Count the headlights on the highway | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
# Lay me down in sheets of linen Lay me down, just lay me down | 0:38:47 | 0:38:51 | |
# You had a busy day today | 0:38:51 | 0:38:55 | |
# I ain't stylish, I'm skylish | 0:38:57 | 0:38:59 | |
# Yes, my level's so up there | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
# My lady's adjacent. I smell her fragrance... # | 0:39:01 | 0:39:04 | |
Today was pretty hard for me, actually. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:07 | |
I saw clothes and saw shoes that were all different sizes, like. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
Imagine seeing a shoe like that big. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:18 | |
So you know that's a kid. | 0:39:18 | 0:39:20 | |
That's a child who died there. | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
It's easy for someone to say, "Oh, forgive". | 0:39:24 | 0:39:27 | |
It's easy to say that if it's not you. | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
Nation. | 0:39:38 | 0:39:40 | |
Congregation. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
There's only one more day before Roger is | 0:39:44 | 0:39:46 | |
due to perform with Miss JoJo at the memorial concert. | 0:39:46 | 0:39:49 | |
We need reconciliation on our space station. | 0:39:51 | 0:39:54 | |
That's freestyling for you, man. Ha, ha, ha! | 0:39:54 | 0:39:59 | |
If he's going to contribute to this act of national remembrance, | 0:39:59 | 0:40:03 | |
there's a lot to do. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:05 | |
I've got, like, half of my lyrics down, but I don't know where | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
I'm going to get the inspiration for the other half. | 0:40:09 | 0:40:12 | |
Writing them down won't be as hard as then having to remember them | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
in front of 30,000 people. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:19 | |
Does that make you nervous? | 0:40:19 | 0:40:21 | |
Does it make me nervous? Are you mad? | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
Of course, I'm bloody cacking it, mate! | 0:40:23 | 0:40:26 | |
Your smiling, yeah, but this isn't a joke. | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
This is serious and I'm cacking it. You should be helping me, man. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:33 | |
As remembrance week reaches its climax, the people of Rwanda | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
pay their respects at one of the largest mass graves in the country. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:46 | |
The remains of 250,000 people are buried here. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:50 | |
No-one can be sure because of the sheer number of dead. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:57 | |
But it's believed Roger's dad is among them. | 0:40:57 | 0:40:59 | |
He'd kept Roger and his mum safe for 30 days | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
before his luck finally ran out. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:08 | |
'They walked away, leaving John, Roger and me | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
'standing at our front gate. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:15 | |
'We stood there for five minutes without uttering a word.' | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
'I have no idea why he did not speak. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:22 | |
'Maybe he was still hoping that we would meet again, | 0:41:22 | 0:41:25 | |
'refusing to believe that his friends would kill him. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:28 | |
'The leader of the pack came back for John. | 0:41:28 | 0:41:32 | |
'It was the last time I saw John. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:33 | |
'Not long after that I heard the gunshots, | 0:41:33 | 0:41:36 | |
'and I knew that he was dead.' | 0:41:36 | 0:41:38 | |
It's extraordinary that Roger's mum could ever forgive. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
This is a picture of my dad, and I've just clipped it on. | 0:41:50 | 0:41:54 | |
I feel quite happy because | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
we know that he's on the list now | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
of the nearly one million people who died. | 0:42:02 | 0:42:06 | |
One of those could be my dad. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:09 | |
I think I'll always remember this. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:12 | |
The person who killed my husband, | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
I forgive him, but it will be harder to see him. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:19 | |
Yeah, I forgive him. | 0:42:22 | 0:42:23 | |
Say someone else did something like that, | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
and you would never forgive them, it would get worse and worse, probably. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
But on this journey, Roger the young man has hardened in his anger | 0:42:32 | 0:42:37 | |
and any thought of forgiveness is far from his mind. | 0:42:37 | 0:42:41 | |
It's a different kind of anger. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:45 | |
Now I understand quite a lot more. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:48 | |
I was a bit more innocent then. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:52 | |
Now, it's... | 0:42:53 | 0:42:56 | |
..it's an anger that I would like to act upon. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:03 | |
Do you know what I mean? | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
I think what I'm doing is a let-down to quite a lot of Rwandans, | 0:43:06 | 0:43:09 | |
because me saying that it's an anger that I would like to act upon | 0:43:09 | 0:43:14 | |
is detrimental to Rwanda now. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
I hate to use the word revenge, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
It's dawning on Roger that Rwanda may be | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
further down the road to reconciliation than he is. | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
But he's determined not to let Miss JoJo down. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:41 | |
CHORAL SINGING | 0:43:41 | 0:43:45 | |
It's their final rehearsal. | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
The concert's tomorrow and he needs to nail his rap. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:57 | |
The lyrics I've got, that I've written, are mainly about, | 0:43:57 | 0:44:02 | |
you know, reconciliation and talking about how Rwanda was on its own | 0:44:02 | 0:44:08 | |
and how Rwanda has picked itself up, and Rwanda is moving on. | 0:44:08 | 0:44:12 | |
CHORAL SINGING | 0:44:21 | 0:44:28 | |
RAPS: I guess we're way too nice for the other side | 0:44:40 | 0:44:43 | |
We are kings, only crowns in our bloodlines | 0:44:43 | 0:44:46 | |
Born in Kigali, so, yeah, it's in my blood type | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
Hitting every shade of green light 'til we get it right | 0:44:49 | 0:44:52 | |
Yeah. And we ain't even made it yet | 0:44:52 | 0:44:54 | |
Three laps, check it, we ain't even break a sweat | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
Full course, and I'm caught, and we're self-taught | 0:44:57 | 0:44:59 | |
Half of y'all need to stand up with the city's rep | 0:44:59 | 0:45:01 | |
Tears won't stop 'til we're callin' | 0:45:01 | 0:45:04 | |
Make a couple Gs in the south now they hate him | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
No worries, no woes, I'm my own thing | 0:45:06 | 0:45:09 | |
Solo, this is how it's got me feelin'. | 0:45:09 | 0:45:11 | |
CHORAL SINGING | 0:45:11 | 0:45:15 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:45:33 | 0:45:35 | |
That went really well. | 0:45:36 | 0:45:38 | |
I was really nervous, and yeah, I'm happy with it. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:40 | |
-All right. -All right, bye. | 0:45:40 | 0:45:43 | |
You know, you're going to be good tonight. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:47 | |
-Me, I'm going to be like, Wooh! -Nah, man. | 0:45:47 | 0:45:50 | |
I've got to be honest, I'm absolutely cacking it! | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
I'm bricking it! | 0:45:54 | 0:45:56 | |
I don't know how many words I can say to tell you how scared I am. | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
Eight million people, including the President, of this whole country. | 0:45:59 | 0:46:04 | |
Yeah. | 0:46:04 | 0:46:06 | |
I might choke! Oh, my gosh. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
It's Roger's last day in Rwanda and he wanted to see whether | 0:46:16 | 0:46:19 | |
the spirit of reconciliation is making a difference for ordinary people. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:23 | |
Since the genocide, Tutsi and Hutu have been encouraged to live alongside each other in villages. | 0:46:25 | 0:46:32 | |
Jacqueline Mukamana is a Tutsi. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:36 | |
When she was 16 years old, | 0:46:36 | 0:46:39 | |
a gang killed all 12 members of her family with machetes and swords. | 0:46:39 | 0:46:43 | |
Did you find it hard to... | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
forgive the people who did this to your family? | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
TRANSLATOR: God helped. She prayed first about it, and then | 0:46:52 | 0:46:56 | |
it became easy for her to forgive. | 0:46:56 | 0:46:59 | |
How long did it take for them to ask for their pardon or forgiveness? | 0:46:59 | 0:47:04 | |
TRANSLATOR: It took them a long time for them to get the courage | 0:47:05 | 0:47:10 | |
to come forward and to ask for forgiveness, | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
and she admits that it was about a year that it took them | 0:47:13 | 0:47:18 | |
to come and ask for forgiveness. | 0:47:18 | 0:47:21 | |
Is there any chance that we can now meet the perpetrators and ask her if it's OK? | 0:47:21 | 0:47:27 | |
Frederick Kaqzigwemo was in a Hutu gang that killed seven Tutsis in one day. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:47 | |
Normally, an attack group had a leader | 0:47:47 | 0:47:51 | |
and the people he led were supposed to go and do the atrocities. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:56 | |
So he was not the leader, but was part of the group that was led. | 0:47:56 | 0:48:02 | |
He served nine years for his part in the genocide. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:07 | |
You guys are living side-by-side and you're neighbours now. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:09 | |
How close is your relationship now as just people who are part of this village? | 0:48:09 | 0:48:15 | |
TRANSLATOR: Our relationship is good. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:21 | |
Our children live happily together, which has a long journey to make. | 0:48:21 | 0:48:25 | |
She can leave her children here and they will be taken care of here in my home. | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
Likewise mine, if I have a long task to do away from home, | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
I can leave my children in her home and they will be taken care of. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:38 | |
They will be given food and looked after properly. | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
So we are living well as neighbours. | 0:48:41 | 0:48:44 | |
OK. Cool. Thank you very much. | 0:48:44 | 0:48:48 | |
He has something he wants to add. | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
-He would like to add something, as you who lost your... -father... | 0:48:54 | 0:48:59 | |
..your family, your father. | 0:48:59 | 0:49:01 | |
TRANSLATOR: I, therefore, in front of all these people here | 0:49:07 | 0:49:11 | |
ask you for forgiveness | 0:49:11 | 0:49:13 | |
and if you are able to forgive me, I would greatly appreciate. | 0:49:13 | 0:49:19 | |
-Oh, OK. Um...could you translate this? -Yes. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:23 | |
Er... | 0:49:23 | 0:49:27 | |
..because you've been so kind and you are doing a great thing, | 0:49:28 | 0:49:33 | |
and you should carry on doing the thing you're doing, | 0:49:33 | 0:49:36 | |
and in terms of asking for forgiveness generally, then...yeah, | 0:49:36 | 0:49:43 | |
I forgive you solely. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:45 | |
But in terms of asking for forgiveness for my father's death, | 0:49:45 | 0:49:49 | |
I can't because that wasn't your fault. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:53 | |
Cool, man. Cheers, mate. | 0:49:54 | 0:49:57 | |
Yeah, thanks. | 0:49:57 | 0:49:58 | |
Brilliant. Cool, man. | 0:50:08 | 0:50:10 | |
She's thanking you for forgiving. | 0:50:12 | 0:50:14 | |
Oh, OK. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:16 | |
It's a real breakthrough for Roger | 0:50:17 | 0:50:20 | |
that he can bring himself to forgive a Hutu killer, but he's still | 0:50:20 | 0:50:24 | |
a long way from offering the same to the men who murdered his father. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:28 | |
He said, "Can you forgive me?" | 0:50:28 | 0:50:30 | |
and I said, you know, "Generally, I can forgive you." | 0:50:30 | 0:50:33 | |
'I couldn't say I forgive you for hurting my dad because that's too deep.' | 0:50:33 | 0:50:38 | |
But I hate to say, if the people who did whatever they did to my dad were confronted with me, | 0:50:38 | 0:50:45 | |
I wouldn't treat them with the same respect. | 0:50:45 | 0:50:48 | |
If you're told to kill someone on the street and it's because they're a Tutsi, OK, that's disgusting. | 0:50:48 | 0:50:55 | |
But if you know that person and you're friends with their wife, | 0:50:55 | 0:50:59 | |
and their newborn is coming a long way, | 0:50:59 | 0:51:02 | |
who's just about to be born and you know that, | 0:51:02 | 0:51:06 | |
I can't understand that, so I can't forgive them. | 0:51:06 | 0:51:09 | |
I mean, I hate to say it, but I'd love to see them in body bags and... | 0:51:09 | 0:51:12 | |
It's horrible. | 0:51:12 | 0:51:13 | |
I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth. | 0:51:13 | 0:51:16 | |
Ah! | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
There's an hour to go before the remembrance concert. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:31 | |
-Is that for the concert? -Yeah. | 0:51:35 | 0:51:39 | |
What, that huge sign out there? | 0:51:39 | 0:51:42 | |
-Oh, you doughnut! -HE LAUGHS | 0:51:42 | 0:51:44 | |
Banners up, all everywhere. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:49 | |
Some big old sign in the middle of the whole square, man. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:56 | |
If there's any more, I'm going to go mad. | 0:51:56 | 0:51:58 | |
HE SINGS | 0:51:58 | 0:52:00 | |
You're not worried about it? The rhythm? | 0:52:11 | 0:52:16 | |
-No. -He's a rapper. -I'm fine. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
This is bad. | 0:52:27 | 0:52:29 | |
I want to go home, man. I'm nervous. | 0:52:29 | 0:52:33 | |
Nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous. | 0:52:33 | 0:52:35 | |
Roger is impressed by how far Rwanda has moved on since the genocide | 0:52:40 | 0:52:44 | |
and is honoured to play his part in the spirit of reconciliation. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
# You will always be with us | 0:52:57 | 0:53:00 | |
# Even though they think you're now far away | 0:53:00 | 0:53:07 | |
# Memories will give us strength to go on | 0:53:07 | 0:53:12 | |
# Never again will there be such a tragedy | 0:53:12 | 0:53:18 | |
# I've got tears in my eyes | 0:53:18 | 0:53:20 | |
# But I've got pain in my heart... # | 0:53:20 | 0:53:25 | |
THEY ALL SING | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
RAPS: # Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side | 0:53:39 | 0:53:41 | |
# I am king Only crowns in our bloodline | 0:53:41 | 0:53:44 | |
# A Class genes So yes in my blood tie | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right, right | 0:53:47 | 0:53:52 | |
# And we ain't even made it yet | 0:53:52 | 0:53:54 | |
# Free lapse check it We ain't even break it yet | 0:53:54 | 0:53:57 | |
# Full course on a court and we're self-taught | 0:53:57 | 0:54:00 | |
# Half y'all need to stand up with the city's rep | 0:54:00 | 0:54:04 | |
# Oh... # | 0:54:04 | 0:54:06 | |
# There'll be tears in my eyes... # | 0:54:13 | 0:54:16 | |
It wasn't one of those concerts where you're like, "Yeah, get some energy up." | 0:54:17 | 0:54:23 | |
This was a very like... | 0:54:23 | 0:54:26 | |
A really reflective, sort of vibe. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:30 | |
And it was really... | 0:54:30 | 0:54:32 | |
I wouldn't say moody, but... | 0:54:32 | 0:54:34 | |
..it was just a really mellow sort of thing. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:38 | |
Even when we finished, I think there was no clapping, nothing. | 0:54:38 | 0:54:42 | |
It was literally just like... you know. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
That was with all the acts, you know. It was just like, | 0:54:45 | 0:54:47 | |
they do their performance, and then after the crowd just like... | 0:54:47 | 0:54:52 | |
This is it, it's done, finished. | 0:54:52 | 0:54:56 | |
Yeah, man. Take it easy. | 0:54:56 | 0:54:59 | |
Signing out officially. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
Hours before he flies home, Roger is visiting the place where he and his mum were rescued. | 0:55:15 | 0:55:22 | |
After 100 days in hiding, she managed to escape from the city | 0:55:25 | 0:55:30 | |
carrying her genocide baby up Mount Kigali. | 0:55:30 | 0:55:35 | |
It was raining heavily. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
I climbed the steep slopes. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:43 | |
My legs hurt and my heart pounded. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:46 | |
I was headed west out of the city. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:49 | |
Finally at dawn, atop Mount Kigali, | 0:55:49 | 0:55:52 | |
I saw three soldiers appear out of the mist. | 0:55:52 | 0:55:56 | |
For the first time, I could face the morning without fearing that | 0:55:56 | 0:56:00 | |
it would be my last. | 0:56:00 | 0:56:02 | |
It's been a remarkable journey. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
Roger left his mum behind to see for himself the horror of the genocide. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:11 | |
He's met survivors... | 0:56:14 | 0:56:15 | |
..and killers... | 0:56:18 | 0:56:19 | |
..and come closer than ever before to a decision about forgiveness. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:27 | |
But he can't yet bring himself to forgive the people who killed his dad. | 0:56:33 | 0:56:37 | |
In terms of forgiveness, it's not a straightforward thing | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
as someone stole my car keys and my car, or something, and now I've got them back, so I forgive them. | 0:56:42 | 0:56:47 | |
It's not like that. It's just very complicated. | 0:56:47 | 0:56:51 | |
It would be quite weird seeing this again in another ten years, | 0:56:57 | 0:57:01 | |
seeing the difference between the me then and the me now. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
I'm young, I've got a couple of years yet, I'm still only 16, | 0:57:04 | 0:57:08 | |
so hopefully that anger will... | 0:57:08 | 0:57:13 | |
somehow fizzle out. | 0:57:13 | 0:57:14 | |
-Hello! -Hello. | 0:57:34 | 0:57:36 | |
Off, off, off, off! | 0:57:36 | 0:57:40 | |
That's it. Go, go! Stop watching this documentary and do something fun. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:44 |