Roger: Genocide Baby


Roger: Genocide Baby

Roger Nsengiyumva was born in the Rwandan genocide of 1994, and only survived through the courage of his mother. Now he returns to homeland to discover the truth about his history.


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Transcript


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This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find disturbing.

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Roger Nsengiyumva is a rising star. He's only 16 and lives with his mum.

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But he's already got one big movie credit to his name.

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So it's either all of us or none of us. We're a team.

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-Roger has grown up in England.

-I shouldn't really be here.

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I'm only really here because of what my mum did for me.

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But he was born in Rwanda during one of the bloodiest episodes in

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human history, when one tribe attempted to wipe out another.

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Roger's dad was murdered, one of a million casualties.

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But his mum survived, hiding her genocide baby from the death squads for weeks on end.

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If anyone read that their mum went through 100 days looking after them

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in complete horror, I'm sure anyone would feel, like, complete admiration.

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Now Roger's going back to Rwanda,

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to see for himself the horror he was too young to remember.

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If you're told to kill someone on the street

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and it's because they're a Tutsi, I can't understand that.

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To draw comfort from fellow survivors.

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He will see you like his son.

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And come face to face with the killers.

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I mean I hate to say it but I'd love to see them in body bags.

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It's horrible, I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth.

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Rwanda is recovering from genocide,

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but can Roger forgive the men who killed his dad?

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I hate to use the word revenge, but that's how I'm feeling at the moment.

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HE RAPS: I'm the man of the hour,

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I got swagger like Austin Powers.

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Roger's got the world at his feet.

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Already a successful actor and now an aspiring rapper.

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If I ever got cold feet,

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Tell them break the ice like a turtle on a British beach.

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But it's the past that intrigues his mates.

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The story of the Rwandan genocide in 1994.

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In Britain, people don't really know about the genocide, do they?

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Especially not people our age? I know we didn't before we met you.

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If you can explain like to me,

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what actually is the Rwandan genocide, what happens?

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I've actually got some footage here, quite hard hitting stuff.

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Let me give you a quick...

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This one, this one's a bit hard, hard hitting, so...

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'As we approached the church, Frank became silent.

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'He'd been here before and knew what lay ahead.

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'I had seen war before, had seen the face of cruelty,

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'but it belonged in a nightmare zone, where my capacity

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'to understand, to rationalise, was overwhelmed.'

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-Is that a person?

-Yes, it's a person, it's a real person.

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'The victims, all of them Tutsis,

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'had gone to the church in search of sanctuary.

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'Instead the house of God became a killing ground.

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'You don't just see death here, you feel it and you smell it.

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'In a classroom, a mother and her children made easy targets.'

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-You know, we saw a kid on that, didn't we, you saw the kid?

-Yeah.

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Yes, easily could've been me.

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I mean, this is quite hard,

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because you just see things like this in movies.

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But trying to imagine that in real life is...

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Personally from that, yeah, it would take me at least a long time to forgive,

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cos that looked like a woman and a child.

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-It was, yeah.

-That's horrible to watch, to be honest.

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I expected a reaction from my friends,

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but that was, that really hit home.

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I mean, it wasn't 40 years back, this was 16 years ago.

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If he forgives, then that would be amazing,

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but if he doesn't forgive, that will sort of still be like,

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that's fair enough, I can see why you don't forgive.

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He'd be a strong boy if he did forgive.

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After the genocide, Roger and his mum, Illuminee,

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escaped to Norwich where they set up a memorial to his father.

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When we used to come here, I was always really silent,

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so this is a first actually.

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They don't actually know where he's buried.

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Seven years ago, they went back to Rwanda to find out.

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They'd use machetes to cut someone up.

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And a club to whack them around the head.

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It makes me feel really angry. That's all I can really say.

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And it was on that visit, that Illuminee made a remarkable admission.

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So now Roger is returning to the land of his birth,

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to find out how Rwanda has recovered

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and to work out whether forgiveness is for him.

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This is Mum's diary about the events, what happened, what she saw,

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what she heard.

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"We were woken by the sound of gunfire.

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"People were screaming for their lives as they were savagely cut down.

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"Roger was born after 20 hours labour.

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"I was so lonely, I wanted to die.

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"I asked him to kill me.

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"Anything but rape. He cocked the pistol and fired.

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"There was a click, but no bang. He'd run out of bullets.

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My mum's forgiven, like, all what happened to her

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and it's taken her time, but she's now moved on from what happened.

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So, I'm still kind of unsure really, as to forgiving

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and not forgiving, but I know eventually,

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eventually I do want to just rest my hand and, yeah, I've forgiven everything.

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But, I'm still in the middle, man.

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Hi, how are you doing?

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It's Roger here with a quick video, the night before I leave.

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Now packing my bags, let's have a look at my bag situation.

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Right, I've got some nice cotton rich socks.

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If you haven't got cotton rich socks then I don't know what your game is.

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You must have seriously...

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In Rwanda it doesn't rain a lot

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but when it does, you're going to know about it.

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So, a raincoat is essential.

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Mum, I still have yet to hear from you.

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What do you think about my journey?

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It's good, you're going to learn more, but I will miss you.

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I'm excited, as you would be, going to see,

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going to see some nice weather, it's Rwanda.

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At the same time, pretty nervous, pretty nervous.

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Going to meet quite a few people that are going to make me think about forgiveness,

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and just how life is in Rwanda day to day really,

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because I haven't seen a lot of that.

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Good night, I'm tired.

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All right, cheers, see you at the airport.

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# I'm coming home

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# I'm coming home

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# Tell the world I'm coming home. #

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4,000 odd miles, I don't know how many hours.

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Easily a day, we had a delay at London.

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Rwanda is the size of Wales,

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but with 8 million people,

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it's one of the most densely populated countries in the world.

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Wow! Here we are, ha-ha-ha, finally in Kigali, yes, yes, boss.

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Eustache, is Roger's mum's brother and his favourite uncle.

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# Let the rain wash away

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# All the pain of yesterday

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# I know my kingdom awaits

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# They've forgiven my mistakes

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# I'm coming home

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# Coming home

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# Tell the world that I'm coming home. #

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It's nice to see you again.

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-It's all the same.

-Yes, no change, you know.

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Eustache lost members of his own family.

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But all 50 of Roger's dad's family were wiped out.

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It's a very important time for Rwanda,

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the 17th anniversary of the genocide.

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There's a week of national events, ending with a remembrance concert.

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Thank you, guys.

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So they teach reconciliation,

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and they talk about the genocide in their song.

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It's not any old concert.

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It's a very important concert about genocide. Is this it, this one?

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And she's the person?

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-Is she really popular here?

-Yes, yes, she's really popular.

-OK, yeah.

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I need to meet her.

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She says her favourite place is 'Schokola' so...

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In Remembrance week, Rwandans reflect on the slaughter

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of the one million people from the Tutsi tribe,

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victims of the extremists from their rival tribe, the Hutu.

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Genocide is defined as the extermination of a race.

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In Rwanda, over half the Tutsi tribe were killed in 100 days.

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That's six people every minute, of every hour, of every day.

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Inside Kigali's national stadium,

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the first memorial event is getting underway.

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Within minutes, the grief is overwhelming.

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Today, I came to say, your memory lives with my spirit.

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That your picture is still drawn on my heart.

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"Time heals all wounds," they say.

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But there will never come a day

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when I don't miss seeing your smiling face.

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It's just happening everywhere.

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WOMAN SINGS

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PEOPLE SCREAM

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# We all need to fight. #

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It may be 17 years on,

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but for everyone in Rwanda, the pain is just as raw.

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-This is where Mum and Dad got married, yeah?

-Yes.

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The wedding of Roger's parents took place four days before the start of the genocide.

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Picture a flag basically, just wearing a flag,

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just like really colourful, got flowers on it and stuff.

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Yes, I've seen her wearing it before. It's really nice.

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I've kind of got a picture of how it was.

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-Did Dad drink some beer?

-Yeah.

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"Our wedding was a wonderful occasion.

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"I was very happy and wore a white dress

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"even though I was eight months pregnant.

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"John looked so handsome in his black suit.

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"At last, I thought, all the people I love are happy together and under one roof.

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"Lot's of John's friends, both Hutu and Tutsi,

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"joined us and drank to our future happiness."

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But many of those so-called friends were Hutus,

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and one month later, they would hunt down and kill Roger's dad.

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What happened was nice, you know, marriage and everything, but...

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he's not here, so it's not nice to look back on.

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So, yeah, I'm not allowed to swear, am I?

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No?

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I'm tempted.

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No, it's not nice, mate, not at all.

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Next stop is to find out how the younger generation has coped with so much loss.

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Last night became quite clear to me how important this week is for Rwandans.

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So, today we're on our way to meet Miss JoJo,

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which should be very exciting.

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She's obviously a very influential person.

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Not only is Miss JoJo famous, she's also a Tutsi like Roger

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and another survivor of the genocide.

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She's seen stuff and now she can tell the world about it,

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so it'll be really interesting to have a conversation with her

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and talk to her about stuff, so, let's go, let's see her, Schokola!

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-Hey, how you doing?

-Hey.

-Nice to meet you.

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I was looking forward to seeing you, welcome.

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I've heard too much, too much. I had to come and meet you.

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At the age of just 11, Miss JoJo witnessed her mother's murder.

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The sin, as in...?

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-You must have been so scared.

-Of course, I mean, I was like...

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In terms of forgiveness, I said I was in the middle. How do you feel?

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So, I've arrived at quite a special time of year.

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What does this concert mean to people?

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What do you do in the concert other than just the music?

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-Yeah, I'd love that.

-Really?

-Yeah, honestly.

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Yes, I'm very excited now!

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I just wanted to know if you were excited about it or just cool.

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-It's cool, yeah?

-Mmm, very cool.

-You going to make it.

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-Is that them now?

-Yeah, this is them.

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-This is one of the best studios we have.

-OK.

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There's a growing hip-hop scene in Rwanda

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and music is overcoming tribal hatred.

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HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT

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Wow! That's a remix, isn't it?

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-What were your lyrics just now, what were they about?

-Street kid.

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-Street kid?

-Yeah. Just street life, you know.

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-He does hip-hop.

-You do hip-hop?

-Mmm-hmm.

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-Yeah. You could give them some.

-Do some free style.

-Free style?

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Yeah, some free style, man, do something.

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-You're putting me on the spot.

-Sing anything, we just want to hear you.

-OK.

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You have to put Ryder in the zone.

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So if I do something and then Ryder spits something.

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OK, no problem.

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I'm going to do some old stuff, man.

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Ryder. Miss JoJo. The Brain.

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# Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side

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# I am king, only crowns in my blood lines

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# A-class genes, so yes, in my blood tie

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# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right

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# Right, and we ain't even made it yet

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# Three laps, check it, we don't even take a break

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# School kids on a who kid, says a street kid, pass it to the kid. #

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HE RAPS IN OWN DIALECT

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-I was feeling that.

-You should do one.

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You can use music to heal people and to move on, too.

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People need to understand that.

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Yeah, I think that nothing can be done without music.

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Music is everywhere, it's something which goes like, it's like breath,

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you know, breath is everywhere, in the air...

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When people are crying, they use music. When people are laughing, they use music.

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OH!

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What's up, man?

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One of Roger's best friends lives in Kigali.

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Yves Dusenge has just heard his mate's in town.

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I came to show you around town.

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-Yo, man.

-You grow taller every day.

-Aw, man, this is crazy!

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They became firm friends on the set of Africa United.

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When's the next bus we're getting?

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Together, they want to explore the life they might have shared

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if it wasn't for the genocide.

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-Here we are.

-Yeah.

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-This is the place, yeah?

-Yeah. This is where my mum grew up.

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She talks about it in here, man.

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Let's go and greet some people up there.

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Life in rural Africa is a far cry from England.

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It's weird to think that she'd be in this sort of environment.

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This is so different to back home, but my mum's more surprised...

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She was more surprised when we moved to Norwich really, you know.

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She always had like two coats on and stuff like that.

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I'm telling that you just come to greet them and visit them.

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Can you tell them I'm really, like,

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I really want to see where my mum got her water and stuff like that,

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because she talks about it quite a lot in here.

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HE SPEAKS IN LOCAL DIALECT

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He doesn't look too happy. THEY LAUGH

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We're dragging this poor guy out. He doesn't even need to get water today. But it's all good.

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So we're filling everything up and carrying it.

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What about, I've seen some guys with trolleys.

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-No, we carry them by hand.

-THEY LAUGH

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OK, let's go, let's go.

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How old are you?

0:25:040:25:07

-20 years old? For real, you're 20 years old?

-Uh-huh.

-Damn!

0:25:100:25:15

The amazing thing about this friendship

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is that is rises above tribal differences.

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Roger, a Tutsi, Yves, a Hutu - the tribe who killed his dad.

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Tutsi may be tall, quite slim.

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The head shape might be quite thin like mine is,

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nose might be small, and Hutu perceived to be quite stocky.

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I don't feel anger towards my generation of Hutus

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because we were babies when this happened.

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So I don't think, you know, mine and Yves' generation

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should feel any guilt to what happened because of their tribe

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and at the same time, you know, I shouldn't feel any anger towards

0:26:060:26:11

people of my generation who are Hutus because we were just babies, man.

0:26:110:26:14

It's just, it's up to us now, so I try to do something here,

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I am trying to build something better, something good.

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Yves, man, we've got issues.

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Look at my shoes. I should have come in something more humble, man.

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-Humble?

-Yeah, man.

-You can remove them.

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I think both of us don't fit in at all, man.

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We don't fit in at all today, man.

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So let's just remove our shoes.

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Then we'll just look crazy.

0:26:500:26:51

"Who are these guys coming into our place and whipping their shoes off?"

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We'll see if I get laughed at. Oh, OK.

0:26:560:27:01

It's not that bad but carrying this for...

0:27:010:27:04

Do you reckon my mum had the same jerry can, this size?

0:27:040:27:08

-Yeah, I think so.

-So what's the traditional way of carrying this?

0:27:080:27:12

Do I put it on my shoulder?

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Yo, this is a new walk!

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You'll have kids in England

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that are going to be walking around like this soon, watch.

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It's the new dance.

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LAUGHTER

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MUSIC: "Paper Planes" by MIA

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# I fly like paper Get high like planes

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# If you catch me at the border I got visas in my name

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# If you come around here I make 'em all day... #

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Back in Kigali, Yves knows what it takes to be cool in today's Rwanda.

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Yo, man, this is perfect for you(!)

0:27:510:27:54

-Yeah?

-No, man. Looks good on you, man(!) Looks good on you(!)

0:27:540:27:57

Whatever, whatever.

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-These are nice, what do you think?

-Try these on.

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Quite a lot of people in Rwanda wear these.

0:28:030:28:05

When I was little, my mum bought me a little pair, baby size.

0:28:050:28:09

I miss these. I haven't had these in a while.

0:28:090:28:11

That's not true, that's not true.

0:28:170:28:19

Roger's beginning to feel like an outsider, an Englishman in Africa.

0:28:230:28:28

Yo, man, that's not the same colour.

0:28:290:28:32

I'm buying two different boots.

0:28:320:28:35

He's taking me for a clown.

0:28:350:28:37

-That's too much man, that's too much.

-He's speaking English, so...

0:28:390:28:43

If I kept quiet, if I kept quiet then...

0:28:430:28:45

-Oh! Yo, man, check that out.

-It's nice, yeah?

0:28:450:28:50

Yo, man, let's go. Too nice. Come on, let's go.

0:28:540:28:59

Good job, good job, good job.

0:29:000:29:02

You've got to ask the question,

0:29:060:29:09

is it, sort of like, unique that you two are friends

0:29:090:29:12

and I really want to say it's not.

0:29:120:29:15

Like, why should it be?

0:29:150:29:17

But I don't know. I mean, I don't think so. I hope not.

0:29:190:29:23

But it's definitely not a strange thing.

0:29:230:29:27

It definitely doesn't feel strange that me and him...

0:29:270:29:32

feel like brothers, man, so...

0:29:320:29:35

Good morning to you, Kigali, how you doing?

0:29:460:29:48

Hope you're good and well.

0:29:480:29:50

I told you today we are hanging out with stars.

0:29:500:29:53

-JoJo, Roger, what's up?

-What's up, man?

0:29:530:29:55

Welcome to Kigali, welcome to CFM. How does it feel to be home now?

0:29:550:29:59

-This is home, right?

-I was born in Kigali, this is home, man.

0:29:590:30:02

So it feels good, especially being joined by my new sister,

0:30:020:30:06

newly found sister.

0:30:060:30:08

-JoJo, why are you here?

-Me, I am hanging out with my young bro here.

0:30:080:30:14

We've been with him just rediscovering Rwanda a little bit.

0:30:140:30:18

-OK.

-We're introducing him to the country, making him love it more.

0:30:180:30:22

-OK. So, this is not the first time you've come back home.

-No, it's not.

0:30:220:30:26

Is there a big difference between that time you were here and now?

0:30:260:30:30

In England, yeah, you speak the language

0:30:300:30:32

-but you feel kind of outside.

-Still left out.

0:30:320:30:34

Yeah, and I came here and I still feel left out because I started talking

0:30:340:30:38

and they were like, "What are you saying?"

0:30:380:30:41

A song by Chris Brown called Champion,

0:30:410:30:43

that's what we're going to start off right now,

0:30:430:30:45

so keep it locked on 89.7 Contact FM.

0:30:450:30:48

In 1994, radio in Rwanda was a much more sinister device.

0:30:520:30:58

There's a history of trouble between the Hutu and Tutsi tribes,

0:31:170:31:21

but things got much worse after the Hutus gained power in the 1960s.

0:31:210:31:25

Tutsi fears became a reality in 1994 at a church in the village of Nyarubuye,

0:31:280:31:34

where thousands sought sanctuary from the death squads.

0:31:340:31:38

Ferdinand Rwakayigamba brought his wife and three children here.

0:31:440:31:51

The memories of what happened next still haunt him.

0:31:510:31:54

JOJO TRANSLATES: "So they started killing people here.

0:31:580:32:01

"They were using everything, they were shooting with guns,

0:32:010:32:05

"they were throwing grenades.

0:32:050:32:07

"They were raping women and afterwards they were killing them.

0:32:090:32:14

"And then if someone is wounded but is not dead,

0:32:180:32:22

"they would come and find out and kill them."

0:32:220:32:24

He was married, he had three kids,

0:32:240:32:28

and everybody was killed in the genocide.

0:32:280:32:34

In three days, 25,000 men, women and children were slaughtered here.

0:32:400:32:47

Many were tortured and beaten to death with domestic tools.

0:33:000:33:04

The scenes were repeated at sites all over Rwanda.

0:33:090:33:13

The slaughter only came to an end

0:33:180:33:20

when the killers found the stench overwhelming.

0:33:200:33:24

A BBC news crew brought these horrors to the attention of the world.

0:33:310:33:35

You don't just see death here - you feel it and you smell it.

0:33:360:33:40

It is as if all the good and life in the atmosphere had been sucked out

0:33:400:33:44

and replaced with the stench of evil.

0:33:440:33:46

JOJO TRANSLATES: He goes sometimes in his room, he closes the doors,

0:34:030:34:07

and everything, where nobody sees him. He cries his pain,

0:34:070:34:11

-he feels bad, he feels the anger.

-Yeah.

0:34:110:34:13

He cries but after that, he goes out of that room, you know,

0:34:130:34:18

to look for life and to take it.

0:34:180:34:21

He had a kid who was six months old and Roger was born in genocide,

0:34:210:34:26

so they are alike. They would be the same age today.

0:34:260:34:31

You can consider him just like as your father

0:34:360:34:38

because he says he looks alike. He feels like, yeah, he's like my kid.

0:34:380:34:46

He will see you like his son.

0:34:460:34:50

If you feel like crying, cry, because that's you.

0:35:170:35:23

I don't cry though. Usually, I just don't cry.

0:35:230:35:29

I told you I've never cried.

0:35:290:35:32

I saw my mum falling down, I didn't cry.

0:35:320:35:35

I didn't cry until the time we were burying her bones.

0:35:350:35:41

The shock of Nyarubuye makes Roger's journey to forgiveness

0:35:410:35:45

much harder than he first thought.

0:35:450:35:48

Do you understand their way of taking life positive

0:35:480:35:52

when someone has been through the kind of things they went though?

0:35:520:35:55

Yeah, it's one thing understanding how they can do that

0:35:550:35:59

and it's another thing actually doing it yourself.

0:35:590:36:01

Yeah, exactly but...

0:36:010:36:03

I can understand because I've seen my mum do it.

0:36:030:36:06

But it's another thing just doing it yourself, just like actually...

0:36:060:36:11

actually trying to say, OK, these bad things happen

0:36:110:36:14

but I've now got a smile on my face.

0:36:140:36:17

After their wedding,

0:36:210:36:22

Roger's parents moved to this neighbourhood in Kigali.

0:36:220:36:26

His mum was nine months pregnant.

0:36:270:36:30

We're now on our way to Nyakabanda where...

0:36:320:36:36

which was the place where my mum and dad had a house.

0:36:360:36:40

So, the place is really personal to me

0:36:420:36:44

because of what happened in '94

0:36:440:36:47

and the reason why it's just me and my mum in Norwich now,

0:36:470:36:51

not me, my mum and my dad.

0:36:510:36:53

He's been here once before.

0:37:000:37:02

This is the house where my father was killed

0:37:030:37:07

when I was just 9 days old.

0:37:070:37:09

I was born here.

0:37:090:37:14

It's easier to know what happened than think about what happened

0:37:140:37:20

but not really know that much.

0:37:200:37:23

As the genocide gathered pace, their situation was becoming desperate.

0:37:280:37:32

We stayed at home for two weeks, listening to the radio

0:37:360:37:40

and waiting to die.

0:37:400:37:42

Outside, the mayhem continued. Bodies are piling up in the street.

0:37:420:37:47

Dogs are howling and fighting over the bodies. The smell is abominable.

0:37:470:37:52

The noise is terrifying.

0:37:540:37:56

My uncle's not here because it was just a bit too much for him,

0:38:000:38:04

just remembering certain things, And I think, like again with my mum,

0:38:040:38:08

she's done her stuff, she's done her job and the same with Uncle.

0:38:080:38:12

And now, you know, it's time for my generation to start speaking out.

0:38:120:38:16

MUSIC: "Tiny Dancer" by DJ Ironik

0:38:160:38:18

# Hold me close, you're just too far

0:38:210:38:23

# Or I can bring you in so you rock with the stars... #

0:38:230:38:25

This is where my mum went to high school.

0:38:250:38:28

And this is where I probably would have gone as well

0:38:280:38:31

if my mum decided to stay here.

0:38:310:38:33

# Hold me closer and don't let go

0:38:330:38:34

# I'm falling so please just don't let go

0:38:340:38:37

# Hold me closer tiny dancer Hold me closer, just hold me closer

0:38:370:38:42

# Count the headlights on the highway

0:38:420:38:45

# Lay me down in sheets of linen Lay me down, just lay me down

0:38:470:38:51

# You had a busy day today

0:38:510:38:55

# I ain't stylish, I'm skylish

0:38:570:38:59

# Yes, my level's so up there

0:38:590:39:01

# My lady's adjacent. I smell her fragrance... #

0:39:010:39:04

Today was pretty hard for me, actually.

0:39:040:39:07

I saw clothes and saw shoes that were all different sizes, like.

0:39:080:39:12

Imagine seeing a shoe like that big.

0:39:120:39:18

So you know that's a kid.

0:39:180:39:20

That's a child who died there.

0:39:200:39:23

It's easy for someone to say, "Oh, forgive".

0:39:240:39:27

It's easy to say that if it's not you.

0:39:280:39:31

Nation.

0:39:380:39:40

Congregation.

0:39:420:39:44

There's only one more day before Roger is

0:39:440:39:46

due to perform with Miss JoJo at the memorial concert.

0:39:460:39:49

We need reconciliation on our space station.

0:39:510:39:54

That's freestyling for you, man. Ha, ha, ha!

0:39:540:39:59

If he's going to contribute to this act of national remembrance,

0:39:590:40:03

there's a lot to do.

0:40:030:40:05

I've got, like, half of my lyrics down, but I don't know where

0:40:050:40:09

I'm going to get the inspiration for the other half.

0:40:090:40:12

Writing them down won't be as hard as then having to remember them

0:40:120:40:16

in front of 30,000 people.

0:40:160:40:19

Does that make you nervous?

0:40:190:40:21

Does it make me nervous? Are you mad?

0:40:210:40:23

Of course, I'm bloody cacking it, mate!

0:40:230:40:26

Your smiling, yeah, but this isn't a joke.

0:40:260:40:29

This is serious and I'm cacking it. You should be helping me, man.

0:40:290:40:33

As remembrance week reaches its climax, the people of Rwanda

0:40:360:40:40

pay their respects at one of the largest mass graves in the country.

0:40:400:40:46

The remains of 250,000 people are buried here.

0:40:460:40:50

No-one can be sure because of the sheer number of dead.

0:40:520:40:57

But it's believed Roger's dad is among them.

0:40:570:40:59

He'd kept Roger and his mum safe for 30 days

0:41:020:41:06

before his luck finally ran out.

0:41:060:41:08

'They walked away, leaving John, Roger and me

0:41:100:41:13

'standing at our front gate.

0:41:130:41:15

'We stood there for five minutes without uttering a word.'

0:41:150:41:18

'I have no idea why he did not speak.

0:41:200:41:22

'Maybe he was still hoping that we would meet again,

0:41:220:41:25

'refusing to believe that his friends would kill him.

0:41:250:41:28

'The leader of the pack came back for John.

0:41:280:41:32

'It was the last time I saw John.

0:41:320:41:33

'Not long after that I heard the gunshots,

0:41:330:41:36

'and I knew that he was dead.'

0:41:360:41:38

It's extraordinary that Roger's mum could ever forgive.

0:41:440:41:47

This is a picture of my dad, and I've just clipped it on.

0:41:500:41:54

I feel quite happy because

0:41:540:41:58

we know that he's on the list now

0:41:580:42:02

of the nearly one million people who died.

0:42:020:42:06

One of those could be my dad.

0:42:060:42:09

I think I'll always remember this.

0:42:090:42:12

The person who killed my husband,

0:42:120:42:15

I forgive him, but it will be harder to see him.

0:42:150:42:19

Yeah, I forgive him.

0:42:220:42:23

Say someone else did something like that,

0:42:260:42:29

and you would never forgive them, it would get worse and worse, probably.

0:42:290:42:32

But on this journey, Roger the young man has hardened in his anger

0:42:320:42:37

and any thought of forgiveness is far from his mind.

0:42:370:42:41

It's a different kind of anger.

0:42:430:42:45

Now I understand quite a lot more.

0:42:450:42:48

I was a bit more innocent then.

0:42:480:42:52

Now, it's...

0:42:530:42:56

..it's an anger that I would like to act upon.

0:42:580:43:03

Do you know what I mean?

0:43:040:43:06

I think what I'm doing is a let-down to quite a lot of Rwandans,

0:43:060:43:09

because me saying that it's an anger that I would like to act upon

0:43:090:43:14

is detrimental to Rwanda now.

0:43:140:43:18

I hate to use the word revenge, but it's how I'm feeling at the moment.

0:43:180:43:22

It's dawning on Roger that Rwanda may be

0:43:310:43:34

further down the road to reconciliation than he is.

0:43:340:43:36

But he's determined not to let Miss JoJo down.

0:43:380:43:41

CHORAL SINGING

0:43:410:43:45

It's their final rehearsal.

0:43:510:43:53

The concert's tomorrow and he needs to nail his rap.

0:43:530:43:57

The lyrics I've got, that I've written, are mainly about,

0:43:570:44:02

you know, reconciliation and talking about how Rwanda was on its own

0:44:020:44:08

and how Rwanda has picked itself up, and Rwanda is moving on.

0:44:080:44:12

CHORAL SINGING

0:44:210:44:28

RAPS: I guess we're way too nice for the other side

0:44:400:44:43

We are kings, only crowns in our bloodlines

0:44:430:44:46

Born in Kigali, so, yeah, it's in my blood type

0:44:460:44:49

Hitting every shade of green light 'til we get it right

0:44:490:44:52

Yeah. And we ain't even made it yet

0:44:520:44:54

Three laps, check it, we ain't even break a sweat

0:44:540:44:57

Full course, and I'm caught, and we're self-taught

0:44:570:44:59

Half of y'all need to stand up with the city's rep

0:44:590:45:01

Tears won't stop 'til we're callin'

0:45:010:45:04

Make a couple Gs in the south now they hate him

0:45:040:45:06

No worries, no woes, I'm my own thing

0:45:060:45:09

Solo, this is how it's got me feelin'.

0:45:090:45:11

CHORAL SINGING

0:45:110:45:15

APPLAUSE

0:45:330:45:35

That went really well.

0:45:360:45:38

I was really nervous, and yeah, I'm happy with it.

0:45:380:45:40

-All right.

-All right, bye.

0:45:400:45:43

You know, you're going to be good tonight.

0:45:450:45:47

-Me, I'm going to be like, Wooh!

-Nah, man.

0:45:470:45:50

I've got to be honest, I'm absolutely cacking it!

0:45:500:45:53

I'm bricking it!

0:45:540:45:56

I don't know how many words I can say to tell you how scared I am.

0:45:560:45:59

Eight million people, including the President, of this whole country.

0:45:590:46:04

Yeah.

0:46:040:46:06

I might choke! Oh, my gosh.

0:46:080:46:11

It's Roger's last day in Rwanda and he wanted to see whether

0:46:160:46:19

the spirit of reconciliation is making a difference for ordinary people.

0:46:190:46:23

Since the genocide, Tutsi and Hutu have been encouraged to live alongside each other in villages.

0:46:250:46:32

Jacqueline Mukamana is a Tutsi.

0:46:340:46:36

When she was 16 years old,

0:46:360:46:39

a gang killed all 12 members of her family with machetes and swords.

0:46:390:46:43

Did you find it hard to...

0:46:430:46:46

forgive the people who did this to your family?

0:46:460:46:49

TRANSLATOR: God helped. She prayed first about it, and then

0:46:520:46:56

it became easy for her to forgive.

0:46:560:46:59

How long did it take for them to ask for their pardon or forgiveness?

0:46:590:47:04

TRANSLATOR: It took them a long time for them to get the courage

0:47:050:47:10

to come forward and to ask for forgiveness,

0:47:100:47:13

and she admits that it was about a year that it took them

0:47:130:47:18

to come and ask for forgiveness.

0:47:180:47:21

Is there any chance that we can now meet the perpetrators and ask her if it's OK?

0:47:210:47:27

Frederick Kaqzigwemo was in a Hutu gang that killed seven Tutsis in one day.

0:47:410:47:47

Normally, an attack group had a leader

0:47:470:47:51

and the people he led were supposed to go and do the atrocities.

0:47:510:47:56

So he was not the leader, but was part of the group that was led.

0:47:560:48:02

He served nine years for his part in the genocide.

0:48:030:48:07

You guys are living side-by-side and you're neighbours now.

0:48:070:48:09

How close is your relationship now as just people who are part of this village?

0:48:090:48:15

TRANSLATOR: Our relationship is good.

0:48:180:48:21

Our children live happily together, which has a long journey to make.

0:48:210:48:25

She can leave her children here and they will be taken care of here in my home.

0:48:250:48:30

Likewise mine, if I have a long task to do away from home,

0:48:300:48:33

I can leave my children in her home and they will be taken care of.

0:48:330:48:38

They will be given food and looked after properly.

0:48:380:48:41

So we are living well as neighbours.

0:48:410:48:44

OK. Cool. Thank you very much.

0:48:440:48:48

He has something he wants to add.

0:48:500:48:52

-He would like to add something, as you who lost your...

-father...

0:48:540:48:59

..your family, your father.

0:48:590:49:01

TRANSLATOR: I, therefore, in front of all these people here

0:49:070:49:11

ask you for forgiveness

0:49:110:49:13

and if you are able to forgive me, I would greatly appreciate.

0:49:130:49:19

-Oh, OK. Um...could you translate this?

-Yes.

0:49:190:49:23

Er...

0:49:230:49:27

..because you've been so kind and you are doing a great thing,

0:49:280:49:33

and you should carry on doing the thing you're doing,

0:49:330:49:36

and in terms of asking for forgiveness generally, then...yeah,

0:49:360:49:43

I forgive you solely.

0:49:430:49:45

But in terms of asking for forgiveness for my father's death,

0:49:450:49:49

I can't because that wasn't your fault.

0:49:490:49:53

Cool, man. Cheers, mate.

0:49:540:49:57

Yeah, thanks.

0:49:570:49:58

Brilliant. Cool, man.

0:50:080:50:10

She's thanking you for forgiving.

0:50:120:50:14

Oh, OK.

0:50:140:50:16

It's a real breakthrough for Roger

0:50:170:50:20

that he can bring himself to forgive a Hutu killer, but he's still

0:50:200:50:24

a long way from offering the same to the men who murdered his father.

0:50:240:50:28

He said, "Can you forgive me?"

0:50:280:50:30

and I said, you know, "Generally, I can forgive you."

0:50:300:50:33

'I couldn't say I forgive you for hurting my dad because that's too deep.'

0:50:330:50:38

But I hate to say, if the people who did whatever they did to my dad were confronted with me,

0:50:380:50:45

I wouldn't treat them with the same respect.

0:50:450:50:48

If you're told to kill someone on the street and it's because they're a Tutsi, OK, that's disgusting.

0:50:480:50:55

But if you know that person and you're friends with their wife,

0:50:550:50:59

and their newborn is coming a long way,

0:50:590:51:02

who's just about to be born and you know that,

0:51:020:51:06

I can't understand that, so I can't forgive them.

0:51:060:51:09

I mean, I hate to say it, but I'd love to see them in body bags and...

0:51:090:51:12

It's horrible.

0:51:120:51:13

I know what I'm saying is horrible, but that's the truth.

0:51:130:51:16

Ah!

0:51:160:51:18

There's an hour to go before the remembrance concert.

0:51:280:51:31

-Is that for the concert?

-Yeah.

0:51:350:51:39

What, that huge sign out there?

0:51:390:51:42

-Oh, you doughnut!

-HE LAUGHS

0:51:420:51:44

Banners up, all everywhere.

0:51:470:51:49

Some big old sign in the middle of the whole square, man.

0:51:510:51:56

If there's any more, I'm going to go mad.

0:51:560:51:58

HE SINGS

0:51:580:52:00

You're not worried about it? The rhythm?

0:52:110:52:16

-No.

-He's a rapper.

-I'm fine.

0:52:160:52:18

This is bad.

0:52:270:52:29

I want to go home, man. I'm nervous.

0:52:290:52:33

Nervous, nervous, nervous, nervous.

0:52:330:52:35

Roger is impressed by how far Rwanda has moved on since the genocide

0:52:400:52:44

and is honoured to play his part in the spirit of reconciliation.

0:52:440:52:48

# You will always be with us

0:52:570:53:00

# Even though they think you're now far away

0:53:000:53:07

# Memories will give us strength to go on

0:53:070:53:12

# Never again will there be such a tragedy

0:53:120:53:18

# I've got tears in my eyes

0:53:180:53:20

# But I've got pain in my heart... #

0:53:200:53:25

THEY ALL SING

0:53:270:53:30

RAPS: # Guess I'm way too fresh for the other side

0:53:390:53:41

# I am king Only crowns in our bloodline

0:53:410:53:44

# A Class genes So yes in my blood tie

0:53:440:53:47

# Pitting every shade of green light till I get right, right

0:53:470:53:52

# And we ain't even made it yet

0:53:520:53:54

# Free lapse check it We ain't even break it yet

0:53:540:53:57

# Full course on a court and we're self-taught

0:53:570:54:00

# Half y'all need to stand up with the city's rep

0:54:000:54:04

# Oh... #

0:54:040:54:06

# There'll be tears in my eyes... #

0:54:130:54:16

It wasn't one of those concerts where you're like, "Yeah, get some energy up."

0:54:170:54:23

This was a very like...

0:54:230:54:26

A really reflective, sort of vibe.

0:54:260:54:30

And it was really...

0:54:300:54:32

I wouldn't say moody, but...

0:54:320:54:34

..it was just a really mellow sort of thing.

0:54:360:54:38

Even when we finished, I think there was no clapping, nothing.

0:54:380:54:42

It was literally just like... you know.

0:54:420:54:45

That was with all the acts, you know. It was just like,

0:54:450:54:47

they do their performance, and then after the crowd just like...

0:54:470:54:52

This is it, it's done, finished.

0:54:520:54:56

Yeah, man. Take it easy.

0:54:560:54:59

Signing out officially.

0:54:590:55:02

Hours before he flies home, Roger is visiting the place where he and his mum were rescued.

0:55:150:55:22

After 100 days in hiding, she managed to escape from the city

0:55:250:55:30

carrying her genocide baby up Mount Kigali.

0:55:300:55:35

It was raining heavily.

0:55:380:55:41

I climbed the steep slopes.

0:55:410:55:43

My legs hurt and my heart pounded.

0:55:430:55:46

I was headed west out of the city.

0:55:460:55:49

Finally at dawn, atop Mount Kigali,

0:55:490:55:52

I saw three soldiers appear out of the mist.

0:55:520:55:56

For the first time, I could face the morning without fearing that

0:55:560:56:00

it would be my last.

0:56:000:56:02

It's been a remarkable journey.

0:56:030:56:06

Roger left his mum behind to see for himself the horror of the genocide.

0:56:060:56:11

He's met survivors...

0:56:140:56:15

..and killers...

0:56:180:56:19

..and come closer than ever before to a decision about forgiveness.

0:56:230:56:27

But he can't yet bring himself to forgive the people who killed his dad.

0:56:330:56:37

In terms of forgiveness, it's not a straightforward thing

0:56:390:56:42

as someone stole my car keys and my car, or something, and now I've got them back, so I forgive them.

0:56:420:56:47

It's not like that. It's just very complicated.

0:56:470:56:51

It would be quite weird seeing this again in another ten years,

0:56:570:57:01

seeing the difference between the me then and the me now.

0:57:010:57:04

I'm young, I've got a couple of years yet, I'm still only 16,

0:57:040:57:08

so hopefully that anger will...

0:57:080:57:13

somehow fizzle out.

0:57:130:57:14

-Hello!

-Hello.

0:57:340:57:36

Off, off, off, off!

0:57:360:57:40

That's it. Go, go! Stop watching this documentary and do something fun.

0:57:400:57:44

At 16, Roger Nsengiyumva has already made a name for himself as the star of the football movie Africa United. But there's something else about Roger; he was born in the Rwandan genocide of 1994 and only survived thanks to the raw courage of his mother. She spent 100 days hiding her newborn baby from the murderous gangs, and then bravely escaped to Britain after seeing her husband, Roger's father, shot dead. This is the story of Roger's return to his homeland to discover the harrowing truths of his family history and to find out whether he can share his mother's remarkable willingness to forgive those who destroyed both their lives.

Part of Extraordinary Me, a season of programmes for BBC Three which focuses on young people with amazing stories to tell.


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