The Twins of the Twin Towers


The Twins of the Twin Towers

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This programme contains scenes some viewers may find upsetting

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New York City, the beating heart of the United States of America,

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once home to the Twin Towers,

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a powerful symbol of a modern era and American financial strength.

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Ten years ago, they became the target

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of the most brutal terrorist attack the world has ever seen.

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GARBLED VOICE ON RADIO: World Trade Center tower number one is on fire...

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Almost 3,000 people lost their lives

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as they were beginning their day's work.

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They were mothers, fathers, sons and daughters.

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Some of them, as many as 46, were also twins.

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I realised, OK, I need to find out if there were other twins who were killed on 9/11.

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I just said I need to find out who the other ones are

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and I need to talk to them.

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When you're in a relationship,

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whether it's your girlfriend or your boyfriend or your husband or wife,

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you call that your other half. I don't call that my other half.

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I call my brother my other half cos he made me whole.

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In the unfolding tales of those whose lives were changed for ever,

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the story of the 9/11 twins has remained untold.

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It was shocking to see how many other twins were affected.

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I don't want to take it away from anybody who had a sibling or kids,

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but you know, everybody else is talked about.

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You never hear, "That's a twin." You never hear, "They were a twin."

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And I think this is a good thing. I think people need to know that,

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you know, we're special people too.

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Reluctant members of a club born out of this tragedy,

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these New Yorkers each lost their other half on September 11th, 2001.

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SIRENS WAIL

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Today, New York City appears as vibrant and full of life as ever.

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But the impact of that terrible day in September ten years ago

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is still felt by almost all who live here.

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Zachary Fletcher and his twin brother Andre grew up in Brooklyn

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and became New York City firefighters.

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They were both called to the World Trade Center on September 11th.

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Andre did not return.

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I was proud. I was proud to be a twin,

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because it meant that something...

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I had something different than what the other kids had.

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We used to always play that we were kind of like superheroes,

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because being a twin, you know, we had special powers and things like that, you know.

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Twins live their lives from the beginning

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in the context of a 'we', rather than the more usual 'I'.

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Cos we were always 'the twins', you know, Mike and Lisa the twins.

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We went as one, you know, wherever we were,

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even if we were by ourselves. "That's Lisa, that's Michael, they're twins."

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It's hard to describe, it really is. It's...

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He knew what I was thinking, I knew what he was thinking,

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and we did things almost at the same time together.

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It was just a natural progression and it just was amazing.

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It really was amazing.

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We were identical twins. I was older by three minutes.

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My hair was always parted to the side.

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Steve was always like a straight bang cut.

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So some people were very good at telling us apart.

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They could tell that there were differences.

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When I was eight years old, I broke my jaw.

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We were playing on a bicycle.

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I bit through my lip and it's a permanent scar.

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I had 14 stitches and it was swollen.

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I remember the nurse showed me the mirror and I was crying all night.

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I thought I broke my twin-ship because I didn't think Stephen and I

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were going to look alike any more. I thought I'd done something irreparable and permanent.

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I didn't like all the confusion at elementary school when we took pictures.

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Only one of us would get a set of pictures

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because the photographer would assume he made two copies and send one back.

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So every year it was like who would get their picture this year?

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If Brenda did something, it was Brenda-Linda. If I did, it was Brenda-Linda.

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And it was just like one. It was like a package deal.

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"So who did it?" "Brenda-Linda."

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I remember my mother often saying,

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"I don't know who did it, but you're both getting punished now."

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It didn't seem fair that other kids didn't have a twin.

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There's something, I think, that happens

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when you spend nine months in a womb with someone,

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as silly as that may seem,

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that sets you apart from anybody else for the rest of your life.

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As many of the twins were growing up,

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an exciting new project was taking root in New York City.

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NEWSREADER: The Port of New York Authority

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is constructing the World Trade Centre in Lower Manhattan.

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The centre includes twin 110-storey tower buildings,

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the tallest in the world.

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With the addition of each new storey,

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the twin towers would come to dominate the Manhattan skyline.

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Lisa and Michael DeRienzo grew up on Staten Island

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within sight of the developing World Trade Center.

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Michael would become a broker on the 104th floor of the North Tower.

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I would say I was a little bit more rambunctious, talkative and giggly.

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He was much more reserved and quiet.

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When he spoke, everyone listened, because then he had something to say.

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I always felt he was my friend for life.

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You know, he was the go-to guy when I ever needed anything.

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Anything good happened, he was the first call. Anything bad happened, he was the first call.

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Yeah, like, he was that friend that was always there.

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Andre and I, we took piano lessons together,

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we played football together, we played baseball together.

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There's really nothing that we didn't do together.

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Both of us even joined New York City Fire Department.

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-You're bald-headed.

-I know.

-Shave it off?

-I want it like that.

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I'm not bald-headed. I got hair.

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'We lived only a few blocks away from the fire house,'

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and we'd walk by the fire house and...

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..the door would be up and the guys were so friendly.

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You'd look at these big guys.

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You're like, "Wow. The things these guys must go through.

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"Those guys are superheroes, man." So we want to be superheroes too.

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-Bye-bye.

-See you later. See you later!

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I don't think any twins didn't fight.

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I think what made it worse was the fact that we were so competitive.

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Who was stronger?

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We always wanted to determine who was the better twin.

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Yeah, we always fought. Sometimes it turned to physical.

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45 years of fishing and now I don't fish at all.

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I just chase the little white ball.

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Gary Guja's identical twin brother Geoffrey was also a firefighter.

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-Nice and straight.

-Where is it?

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It curved a little bit!

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Geoffrey and Gary grew up on Long Island where Gary still lives today.

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Yeah, this is us. Look at this, this is a great picture.

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This I can remember.

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Look at this, we're climbing up.

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There is definitely no-one there.

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There we go, down the slide together. That was great.

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Oh, here are the sailor suits, the famous sailor suits.

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We had, like, our fifth party.

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They gave us these little sail boats.

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In the middle of the party, Mom had a heart attack

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because she couldn't find us. Both of us had disappeared.

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We took our sail boats, just the two of us,

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and were sailing them down the canal.

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They were ready to call the police and everybody. We're, like, disappeared.

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Geoff was always the organiser. We always used to joke around.

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There was the right way, the wrong way and Geoff's way,

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because that was the way we always did it.

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I love my sisters and other brothers,

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but there's just no comparison between the relationship between two twins.

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It's really a...a unity. It's a oneness.

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Eventually we bought a house together.

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Inseparable up until mid-30s, maybe. And then we split up.

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I took half the house, with my wife Debbie.

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Geoff took the other half.

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If we sell this ring,

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maybe we can take this limo straight down to Mexico and...

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That's it. I ain't doing it! Take a left.

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Following Geoff's lead, we could do whatever we wanted to.

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I often said he was like a locomotive out of control at times.

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But we'd jump on the train and we'd all go for a ride.

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And it was a great ride.

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Right, that's another way of telling you you're ugly.

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Went into the Fire Department and wanted the most action,

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pulled all the strings he could,

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so he ended up in the worst firehouse in the worst area of the Bronx.

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On September 11th,

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Geoff shouldn't have responded to the emergency call out.

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He'd been injured in a fire and restricted to office duty.

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Thirteen Hoffmans. Eight boys, five girls.

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We were the youngest two boys

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and we understood that we had all these other brothers and sisters,

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but Stephen I, there was certainly a uniqueness about the relationship,

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because of the twinship.

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There was no language, it was just unspoken, a look, a nod...

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just an expression and then when we...

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I think we had a more hard time communicating when we spoke

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than when we didn't speak, because when we spoke there were both of us

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trying to talk at the same time.

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Greg Hoffman and his twin brother Stephen grew up in Queens in a large Catholic family.

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So he and I were always very active, very hyperactive.

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And believe it or not, it's hard for you to understand, but Stephen...

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I was the least hyper of the two of us, Stephen was much more...

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talkative and just more out there.

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If you were a cartoon character, who would you be?

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Oh, cartoon character. I would undoubtedly be Tigger.

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Tigger's my favourite character cos he's got a lot of spunk.

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He bounces around, he's always happy.

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Tigger, Tigger, Tigger Tigger's a wonderful thing.

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'We're exactly the same, also at the same time totally opposite.'

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John was the academic and I was out hustling.

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I wanted to make money.

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New York City is a great place to make a living.

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John is this hero policeman, he's all over the place

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and I've always been in the carpet business

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or playing my guitar in a band.

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Right there, we're exact opposites.

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He'd been an emergency service police officer for 14 years.

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The saying goes, when a cop needs a cop, they call emergency service.

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When the Twin Towers were completed in 1973,

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they were briefly the tallest buildings in the world

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and could be seen from 25 miles away.

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They seemed as strong as America herself.

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So it wasn't just a regular building for us.

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We had a lot of fun there, Geoff and I. It was interesting

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because we had spent a fair amount of time at the Towers.

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Growing up and being a teenager around that time,

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it was something that you did.

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You made school trips to the Twin Towers.

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We were proud of our Twin Towers.

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Top of the heap. Top of the world. New York.

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COMMENTATOR: And up here at 1,500 feet or in that area,

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there is somebody out there on a tightrope walk

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between the two towers of the World Trade Center,

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right at the tippy-top.

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The height of the Twin Towers proved irresistible

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to French high-wire artist, Phillipe Petit

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and he was quick to celebrate them in his own unique way.

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A couple of years later, Brooklyn toymaker, George Willig,

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the human fly, felt compelled to scale the South Tower.

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'28-year old George Willig was at the 65th floor.

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'They sent two men in a window washer's bucket down after him.'

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I remember standing outside looking up

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and the Twin Towers were standing there.

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Stephen and I remember looking up, we go, "They're our buildings, man.

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"The twins and the towers, those are our towers".

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And I think any twin identifies with that.

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After high school, I remember asking, "Are we going to college?"

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You know, it was kind of like, "OK, are we going away?

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"If we're not, we're going to stay here? What are we going to do?

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And we started to work rather than go straight to school.

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Brenda got a job as a systems analyst

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on the 97th floor of the North Tower.

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I used to visit her all the time.

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We'd have lunch, we'd go to concerts,

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that'd be down in the building.

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She didn't like heights and she didn't like being near a window.

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And she had both. She was up high

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and she had a big window.

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But I think the more she worked there, she got used to it.

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I remember looking out the window and I go, "Is it raining?"

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She'd go, "I can't tell". That's how high up they were.

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She was up there.

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The minute we went to college, he sprouted, he grew almost six feet,

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handsome, proud to be his sister,

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you know, I'd walk into the party, "That's Mikey D's sister!"

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He was Mikey D, I was Lisa D.

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Actually, my brother convinced me to take the police test to begin with.

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He's like, "Take the police test with me".

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I'm like, "Ah, I don't know if I want to do that".

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We both took the test and I ended up becoming the police officer

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and he ended up becoming the broker.

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Yeah.

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He worried so much about me every day.

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I mean, he would call me every morning, every night,

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make sure I got home from work OK, make sure I got into work OK.

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You know, it was nice to know that someone always cared that much,

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and it was almost to a point where,

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"Ok, Michael. You don't have to call me as much. Everything is fine".

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I have to say, he was my number one fan.

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Michael worked for investment bank Cantor Fitzgerald

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right near the very top of the North Tower.

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Being a banker, I never had to worry about him.

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I went to visit him once at the Trade Center

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and really wasn't a fan of it. It just was so tall.

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The Trade Center was so confusing and there were so many entrances

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and it was just so high. Cos it was nerve-wracking.

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the building always felt like it was swaying.

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I wasn't comfortable there. I didn't really go visit him again after that.

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If I needed something, I made him come downstairs.

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I'm like, "I'm not going back up there".

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You know, going back to 9/11...

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I know, sometimes I blame myself for him not being here.

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He wouldn't have been there to die, if I didn't do what I did.

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Andre was out of town when the opportunity arose to work overtime.

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But there was only one way he could get back in time.

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He called me from North Carolina and said,

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"Zack, do you think you can pick me up from the airport?"

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I was like, "Well, what time do you expect to be in?"

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He says, "Twelve, midnight". I says, "Oh, hell, no".

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I said, "There's no way in hell I'm going to pick you up".

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He got pissed, he cursed me off, he slammed down the phone.

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I'm like, "Ppff, I don't care".

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Phone rings again in ten minutes. "Come on, man. Come pick me up".

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The phone, he must have hanged up about five times.

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I said, "Fine". I said, "You owe me so big".

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'Good morning New York, it's a beautiful day in Manhattan...'

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'..traffic's moving slowly over the Brooklyn Bridge.

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'It's backed up all the way to the Brooklyn Queen's...'

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'Coming up in the news today, guess who's been hinting he may return to the NBA...'

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On September 11th 2001,

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14,154 people were already in the buildings

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when the first plane struck the North Tower at 8.46am.

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WHOOSHING NOISE

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Holy shit!

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Holy shit.

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The World Trade Center, tower number one

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is on fire, the whole outside of the building.

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There was just a huge explosion.

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Ten-four, all companies stand by...

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It was a beautiful Tuesday morning and I actually worked

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in a undercover building in narcotics right up on the Westside Highway

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and someone told me that I should call my brother,

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that something was going on at the Trade Center.

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So I called my brother's phone line and it rang and no-one answered, which was odd.

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So I said, "I wonder what's going on down there?"

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So I went to the corner, looked up, saw his building and I saw smoke coming out of his tower,

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and I said, "That's not good".

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'We have fire on several floors...'

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Michael, Lisa's twin brother

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was five storeys above the area of impact

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on the 104th floor of the North Tower.

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So I said, "I'm going to run down there".

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As I was getting closer, I saw, you know,

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hundreds of people coming towards me now. And I'm like, this is not good.

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But being a police officer, I'm used to running toward situations

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so it wasn't uncommon for me to be running towards something and people coming towards me.

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I knew it was bad. But I didn't think it was that bad.

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'Engine one. World Trade Center. Send every available ambulance

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'everything you've got to World Trade Center now...'

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'Please go to World Trade Center. Please go to World Trade Center.'

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When I woke up, all I heard was sirens.

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Cos I was in Brooklyn, all I heard was sirens and I heard...

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I said, "What the hell's going on?" I looked out and, man, it's a beautiful day.

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There was not a cloud in the sky. That's what was so eerie about it.

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Andre hit me up on my phone.

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He says, "Yo, get your ass up and get to work".

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I was like, "I'm not working, I'm off".

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He says, "Dude, they're having a recall".

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He says, "Go in, get into work immediately".

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He says, "A plane just went into the World Trade Center".

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I'm like, "Get outta here! Stop bullshitting me".

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'Attention all units. By the order of the Citywide tour commander,

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'all off duty firefighters are hereby recalled.

0:20:510:20:53

'Repeating, by the order of the Citywide tour commander

0:20:530:20:57

'all off duty firefighters...'

0:20:570:21:00

I wasn't working at the time and Geoff thought

0:21:000:21:03

it was fun to call me at 7.15 every morning

0:21:030:21:07

to say, "Go get 'em. Hit the pavement".

0:21:070:21:10

Pamela's twin brother, Jeffrey, a research analyst,

0:21:100:21:14

was working on the 89th floor of the South Tower.

0:21:140:21:18

It wasn't a surprise when the phone rang and I said, "I'm up, I'm up".

0:21:180:21:22

And he said, "Don't panic."

0:21:220:21:25

He didn't even say hello, he said, "Don't panic. I'm fine".

0:21:250:21:30

He said, "It's not a big deal, but a tiny commuter plane just crashed into the building next door.

0:21:300:21:36

"They're saying we're safe, we're staying put.

0:21:360:21:38

"They want to worry about evacuating people from the other building".

0:21:380:21:42

I knew right away that it wasn't a small plane,

0:21:450:21:47

just looking at it. I didn't feel anything,

0:21:470:21:50

It wasn't like, "Oh, my God, my twin's..."

0:21:500:21:53

I mean, I just looked at it and said, "That is serious and that is a big plane."

0:21:530:21:57

I said, "Oh, my God, all those people are dead".

0:21:570:21:59

Greg's identical twin, Stephen,

0:22:010:22:03

worked at the same company as Lisa's brother, Michael

0:22:030:22:07

on the 104th floor.

0:22:070:22:09

And then I started... You know, called the cell phone,

0:22:120:22:15

called the desk, which is ringing.

0:22:150:22:17

You know, the cell phone it rang, his voice message picked up.

0:22:170:22:21

"Steve, please call me. Please call me. See what's going on".

0:22:210:22:24

So as each minute... 8.51, 8.52,

0:22:240:22:28

8.55, 8.57... It's like... It's a like a drum getting louder

0:22:280:22:32

and I started feeling like I was hyperventilating.

0:22:320:22:35

I called him back

0:22:400:22:41

and I said, "Can you get out of there?

0:22:410:22:44

"I don't like this. This is making me very, very uncomfortable.

0:22:440:22:49

You know, "Why won't they let you leave? That just seems weird to me.

0:22:490:22:52

"If you want to leave, leave. Just get in the elevator and leave".

0:22:520:22:56

And he said, "OK, I got to go...

0:22:560:22:59

"We're going to leave".

0:22:590:23:01

I said, "OK".

0:23:010:23:03

And they had closed the Brooklyn Bridge down.

0:23:060:23:09

So nobody can get across it.

0:23:090:23:11

And I said, "Look, my fire house is on the other side, I need to get there.

0:23:110:23:15

They said, "Go ahead".

0:23:150:23:16

And I got there and I saw his rig going in through the Battery tunnel.

0:23:180:23:23

Zack's twin brother Andre worked for a special rescue unit

0:23:250:23:29

based on Staten Island.

0:23:290:23:31

He arrived at the scene some time before Zack.

0:23:310:23:35

I phoned on his radio and I said, "Andre, I know the way you guys operate".

0:23:390:23:43

I said, "Don't do anything stupid".

0:23:430:23:46

I said, "I love you".

0:23:460:23:48

He says, "I love you too, bro".

0:23:480:23:52

And the weird thing about it is...

0:23:520:23:56

Why did I say, "I love you?"

0:23:560:23:57

I rarely told my brother I loved him.

0:23:590:24:03

I mean, cos we knew it. It was just something you knew.

0:24:030:24:05

I must have called the cell phone four or five times.

0:24:050:24:09

And I tried the cell phone again, so I remember it was like a little after nine o'clock,

0:24:090:24:13

he picks up, he's like, "Hello". He didn't say hello, he said, "Greg".

0:24:130:24:17

I go, "Steve, is that you?" He goes, "Greg, it's me".

0:24:170:24:19

And it was very static-y, and I said, "Steve?", he goes, "Yeah?" I go,

0:24:190:24:23

"Are you all right?" He goes, "Yeah, we're all right". And then this...

0:24:230:24:27

At that point, with maybe a five second, six second phone call,

0:24:270:24:31

I'm looking at the TV, I'm watching the other plane come in.

0:24:310:24:34

And I remember the last thing Stephen said was, "Oh, my God. Look at that".

0:24:500:24:53

Then the phone went dead. And then all the cell phones went.

0:24:530:24:57

But at that moment he was alive. I remember looking at my clock,

0:24:570:25:00

saying, "OK, it's going to take at least an hour to get down.

0:25:000:25:04

"It's a mess, but you know what, now they're going to get down".

0:25:040:25:07

'We're getting reports on the 104th floor,

0:25:070:25:11

'back room, 25 to 30 people trapped.

0:25:110:25:13

'I also have the 103rd floor, north west room...'

0:25:130:25:18

RADIO INTERFERENCE

0:25:180:25:22

At that point it was pretty much chaos.

0:25:250:25:28

The second plane hit,

0:25:280:25:29

you don't know what's going on but you knew it was bad.

0:25:290:25:32

When you look up at the Trade Center...

0:25:320:25:34

And I saw people jumping out the windows and off the roof

0:25:340:25:38

and people were screaming in horror.

0:25:380:25:39

It was almost like you were in a tunnel, like you were in a vision tunnel now.

0:25:390:25:43

Because you almost couldn't hear anything any more. It was like time froze.

0:25:430:25:47

But when I got a block from the Trade Center and I saw it

0:25:510:25:54

and I knew he was in there...

0:25:540:25:58

I almost felt like he may have kept me out.

0:25:580:26:00

Because any other... I really do believe, and I've thought about this,

0:26:000:26:04

any other time I would run into that building, I would run into, you know, stores getting robbed,

0:26:040:26:09

and I was running into bad situations all the time.

0:26:090:26:12

But why did I stay out of this one?

0:26:120:26:14

Why did I get a block close and not go in?

0:26:140:26:18

At around this time,

0:26:230:26:25

Greg's brother Stephen was trapped in a conference room

0:26:250:26:29

with colleagues from Cantor Fitzgerald.

0:26:290:26:31

There were phone calls

0:26:320:26:35

and a young woman who worked at Cantor...

0:26:350:26:38

..had called home at 9.17 trying to speak to her mom,

0:26:380:26:44

and left a very frantic message for her mother.

0:26:440:26:47

Hysterically crying, upset, cos it was a half-an-hour

0:26:470:26:51

after the first airplane had hit their building

0:26:510:26:53

and they realised they were trapped.

0:26:530:26:55

ANSWERPHONE BEEPS

0:26:560:26:59

'Tuesday 9.17am.'

0:26:590:27:02

SHE SOBS

0:27:080:27:10

And they realised that their fate was pretty set,

0:27:100:27:13

and they kind of... I think they all at that point understood

0:27:130:27:16

that they were not going to... they were going to die.

0:27:160:27:19

There was a voice that came in behind her

0:27:300:27:33

and they said...

0:27:330:27:36

She said, "Mom", and he said, "Tell them there's 30, 40 of us

0:27:360:27:39

"in a northwest conference room". And her voice came in,

0:27:390:27:42

"Mom, there are 30 or 40 of us in the northwest conference room.

0:27:420:27:46

The voice in the background belonged to Stephen.

0:27:460:27:49

He would say something, she would repeat it.

0:27:510:27:54

And she couldn't get through to anybody, she was talking to a voice machine.

0:27:570:28:01

And I can only imagine how horrifying that must have been

0:28:010:28:04

and how scary and all those other things it must have been,

0:28:040:28:06

but for me it was nice to know that Stephen came there and comforted her.

0:28:060:28:10

This was one of the last phone calls from the North Tower.

0:28:100:28:15

I was so glad to hear his voice again,

0:28:170:28:19

because at that point I was starting to say, "Did I even imagine I had that phone call with Stephen?

0:28:190:28:25

"Was it... Was it real?"

0:28:250:28:28

And I... and I remember...

0:28:280:28:30

when the cell phone bill came in,

0:28:300:28:32

I just looked at the bill, I just wanted to make sure.

0:28:320:28:35

9.02, there's my cell phone, there's his cell phone.

0:28:350:28:38

I remember going into my fire house. I signed in. Both trucks were out.

0:28:510:28:56

Most of the guys' gear was stripped off their racks.

0:28:560:28:59

And we started walking up to the World Trade Center,

0:28:590:29:02

which was only about ten minutes, tops.

0:29:020:29:05

'Have MSU activate all their spares, bring all their spares

0:29:060:29:11

"and all spare bottles... to number one World Trade Center.'

0:29:110:29:15

I said to him, I said, "Cap, hold on, wait here".

0:29:150:29:18

I said, "I'm going to go grab a few more bottles, air bottles".

0:29:180:29:22

He looked at me, he was like, "Good idea".

0:29:220:29:25

From the time I left the captain, to come back, get the bottles,

0:29:260:29:32

then go back to meet him,

0:29:320:29:33

I'd probably burned about nine-ten minutes.

0:29:330:29:37

Geoff had been injured in a fire.

0:29:390:29:42

He was on light duty at Metrotech in Brooklyn.

0:29:420:29:45

He was looking out the window watching the towers burn

0:29:450:29:49

when the second plane hit Tower Two and...

0:29:490:29:54

they caught him twice trying to sneak out

0:29:540:29:57

and the third time him and Lieutenant Polsino got out,

0:29:570:30:01

jumped on the subway

0:30:010:30:03

and got over to Chinatown and commandeered a vegetable truck

0:30:030:30:07

and made some truck driver drive them half way.

0:30:070:30:10

It was just so surreal to feel the heat on the ground

0:30:100:30:15

and it was 80 storeys up.

0:30:150:30:17

He went into the firehouse there,

0:30:200:30:22

put on his bunker gear he took from somebody else's locker.

0:30:220:30:25

I got the impression that they just kind of stood there.

0:30:330:30:38

I don't want to use the word overwhelmed,

0:30:380:30:40

but it sounds as if...

0:30:400:30:42

a fire they had never seen or could comprehend, the way he described it.

0:30:420:30:49

I don't hold it against the firemen, who didn't go in.

0:30:490:30:52

Geoff looked at the fire and decided that was his calling to go.

0:30:520:30:59

Geoffrey Guja made his way to the entrance of the South Tower at 9:59am.

0:30:590:31:05

LOW RUMBLE

0:31:120:31:13

SCREAMING

0:31:130:31:15

I can only wish he didn't, but...

0:31:160:31:19

..everybody said the same thing.

0:31:200:31:22

He'd do it tomorrow.

0:31:220:31:24

He wouldn't do it differently.

0:31:240:31:26

LOW RUMBLE

0:31:260:31:28

SCREAMING

0:31:280:31:32

RUMBLE INTENSIFIES

0:31:360:31:38

We just looked and we saw everything coming,

0:31:440:31:48

all the crap coming down, we just all grabbed each other

0:31:480:31:50

and pushed each other into the side entrance of the building.

0:31:500:31:56

Everything is just moving in slow motion,

0:32:070:32:09

and you're hearing everything slur... I mean, just like that.

0:32:090:32:14

I'm like, "Wow, this cannot be real."

0:32:140:32:18

If I didn't go back to get those bottles,

0:32:230:32:26

I would have actually gone down further and I wouldn't be here.

0:32:260:32:30

When the South Tower fell,

0:32:580:33:01

amongst the many who died was Pamela's brother Jeffrey on the 89th floor.

0:33:010:33:05

And Zack's brother, Andre,

0:33:070:33:09

who was on his way up the stairs with ten of his colleagues.

0:33:090:33:13

As with so many others, their remains were never found.

0:33:130:33:18

Geoffrey Guja had just reached the entrance to the building when it fell.

0:33:200:33:26

Everybody thought Geoff was a...

0:33:280:33:31

a cat with nine lives. Nobody ever...

0:33:310:33:34

Everybody knew that Geoff was going to come up out of the rubble

0:33:340:33:37

with 14 people on his back.

0:33:370:33:40

You know, he was the hero, he was going to do it.

0:33:400:33:42

I just turned around and started running for my life

0:33:460:33:48

and the building fell and I got a bunch of blocks away and...

0:33:480:33:51

I knew at this point I needed... I needed to do something else.

0:33:510:33:56

I had to get to my building.

0:33:560:33:57

I saw a gentleman sitting in his car and he was frozen,

0:33:570:34:01

and I asked him, "You've got to take me back up town to my building."

0:34:010:34:04

I persuaded him to take me back up to my building.

0:34:040:34:08

-How?

-Um...

0:34:080:34:10

I persuaded him to take me back.

0:34:110:34:14

I don't know, a little force, I guess,

0:34:140:34:16

but he took me back to my building.

0:34:160:34:18

Any gun involved?

0:34:180:34:19

Maybe uh...

0:34:200:34:22

I pressured him a little bit.

0:34:220:34:24

John D'Allara had been at the scene early on

0:34:340:34:37

and had rescued many inside the North Tower.

0:34:370:34:40

At 10:28, he was outside the building

0:34:420:34:44

helping people to safety across the plaza,

0:34:440:34:47

now a death trap of falling debris.

0:34:470:34:50

SIREN WAILS

0:34:500:34:52

When I heard that a plane had hit the Trade Center,

0:34:530:34:56

the first thing I did was call Truck Two in Harlem.

0:34:560:34:58

I didn't get an answer. I called my sister-in-law, "Where's John?"

0:34:580:35:02

"He's working". So I knew that he was down there.

0:35:020:35:04

We were at Stuyvesant Heights...

0:35:040:35:06

The first plane hits, I wasn't worried.

0:35:060:35:08

Second plane hit, wasn't worried.

0:35:080:35:10

When the South Tower came down, didn't bother me.

0:35:100:35:13

But at 10:30, I was in the Carriage House bar on 59th Street,

0:35:130:35:18

looking at the TV set and at 10:30 when that...

0:35:180:35:21

when that building came down,

0:35:210:35:23

I nearly jumped out of my skin with anxiety.

0:35:230:35:25

"John, holy shit, John.

0:35:250:35:27

"Holy shit, I got to get out of here."

0:35:270:35:29

And I went back to my... went back to my office,

0:35:290:35:31

My boss said, "Where do you think you're going?"

0:35:310:35:34

I said, "I have to get out of here. My brother just got killed."

0:35:340:35:36

I'll never be able to say that I didn't feel it.

0:35:380:35:40

LOW RUMBLE INTENSIFIES

0:35:440:35:49

Dan was right.

0:35:580:36:00

It was the collapsing North Tower that killed his brother, John.

0:36:000:36:04

LOW RUMBLE

0:36:120:36:15

DISTANT SIRENS WAIL

0:36:190:36:23

My...my gut told me it wasn't going to be good news.

0:36:230:36:27

But it wasn't anything like I felt, like a sharp pain

0:36:270:36:32

or anything like some of the other ones who had lost their twin.

0:36:320:36:35

Some people may have. I didn't feel anything.

0:36:370:36:39

So, I'm just wondering...

0:36:410:36:44

..why I didn't feel anything.

0:36:450:36:47

What happened to those special powers that we were supposed to have?

0:36:470:36:51

You didn't know after the buildings collapsed, you still...

0:36:570:37:02

you still didn't know.

0:37:020:37:04

You try and do the math in your head.

0:37:040:37:07

Did they have enough time?

0:37:070:37:08

Could they have found their way to another stairwell

0:37:080:37:11

and gone down a back stairwell and escaped the flames?

0:37:110:37:13

I went into complete denial, I think.

0:37:130:37:16

The second day, there was no word from Geoff.

0:37:220:37:26

It's just...

0:37:260:37:28

I think everybody kind of knew in their hearts that it was not looking good.

0:37:280:37:32

But, again, if anybody could do it, Geoff was going to pull it off.

0:37:320:37:37

But...

0:37:370:37:39

Third day we kind of... I think everybody...

0:37:390:37:42

kind of came to the conclusion that...

0:37:420:37:45

Geoff's not coming back.

0:37:450:37:48

It would eventually be established that 2,752 people

0:37:570:38:02

had lost their lives in the attack on the Twin Towers.

0:38:020:38:06

The next day that, you know, there was a bunch of rumours,

0:38:080:38:11

that hospitals have people in them and they're unconscious, not identified.

0:38:110:38:15

And being a police officer, we were allowed to go in and out of the city.

0:38:150:38:19

Really no-one else was.

0:38:190:38:21

And I said, "Listen, give me a list of the names.

0:38:230:38:25

"I'm going to go to these different hospitals

0:38:250:38:28

"and I'll give you guys a call and let you know, if anybody's there."

0:38:280:38:31

The bad news was every time I had to call them I had to tell them there wasn't anybody in any hospital.

0:38:310:38:36

Of those who died, only 293 intact bodies were ever found.

0:38:380:38:43

And only 12 could be identified by sight.

0:38:450:38:48

I was there on the day he was found

0:38:540:38:56

because they had dressed me up and took me in there to see it.

0:38:560:39:02

It was funny, as I told you, because somebody thought I was Geoff.

0:39:020:39:05

I was all dressed up in fireman's gear,

0:39:050:39:07

and one of the firemen saw my face and he come running up to me

0:39:070:39:11

like he was going to deck me or hit me,

0:39:110:39:13

because how dare I wait four days to tell everybody I'm still alive.

0:39:130:39:17

But he...

0:39:170:39:19

We told him that, no, this is Geoff's twin.

0:39:190:39:23

My captain says, "What do you want to do?

0:39:260:39:29

"You want to take a vacation or you want to continue to work at the pile?"

0:39:290:39:33

We called it the pile.

0:39:330:39:36

I said, "No. I want to work the pile."

0:39:360:39:38

Not only was I looking for my brother,

0:39:380:39:41

I was looking for the guys from my firehouse that died.

0:39:410:39:45

Out of 343 members that died, I must have known...

0:39:480:39:52

..this is including my brother, about 125, 130 of them.

0:39:540:39:57

And I could call probably...

0:39:580:40:00

..15 to 20 of them my CLOSE friends.

0:40:030:40:07

Oh, God. There's things I saw that nobody should see, you know.

0:40:100:40:15

The stench was so terrible. It was disgusting.

0:40:150:40:19

It could wrench your stomach

0:40:190:40:21

and I remember picking a piece of something up,

0:40:210:40:24

and it was such a bad smell, and anything like that you found, you had to red bag it.

0:40:240:40:30

I've never gotten anything from Andre at all.

0:40:320:40:34

Nobody from his unit, nobody got anything.

0:40:340:40:37

The Twin Towers, you looked at them as the power and the strength.

0:40:410:40:46

They symbolised so much, and I feel my brother and I did the same.

0:40:460:40:49

We were strong together.

0:40:490:40:52

And, you know, so when they collapsed,

0:40:520:40:55

you know, they broke and...

0:40:550:40:57

and so did my brother and I. You know, we broke also.

0:40:570:41:00

For the surviving twins,

0:41:300:41:33

the days leading up to 9/11 have become locked in memory.

0:41:330:41:36

That weekend before, we took this great long walk and we talked,

0:41:380:41:43

we just had fun.

0:41:430:41:45

We laughed and when I think back on it now, it was...

0:41:450:41:48

..kind of a perfect way to...

0:41:510:41:52

..spend time with him.

0:41:570:41:59

I drove him to the airport.

0:42:000:42:02

Back then, you could walk to the gate, you could walk to the gate!

0:42:020:42:06

And I just had a icky sick feeling in my stomach.

0:42:060:42:09

"God, what if this were the last time I ever see him?"

0:42:090:42:12

I remember thinking that.

0:42:120:42:15

He called and he said, "I'm home," and I remember thinking, "Oh, thank God."

0:42:150:42:19

The Sunday prior to that,

0:42:220:42:23

a friend always organised a family day trip at Yankee Stadium.

0:42:230:42:27

My brother would never go because he was a die-hard Met fan.

0:42:270:42:30

A bunch of my friends were there that had never met my brother,

0:42:310:42:34

so they finally got to meet, you know, the famous Mikey D,

0:42:340:42:37

and it was a great day overall.

0:42:370:42:39

I remember looking at him in the seat saying,

0:42:390:42:41

"This is such a good day."

0:42:410:42:43

You know, all my friends are here and he's here and...

0:42:430:42:45

..and, you know, a die-hard Met fan at the Yankee stadium watching a game. It was fantastic.

0:42:470:42:51

I remember that night before 9/11

0:42:570:43:02

and got a great surf report and I called Steve and I said, "Call Rob Jordan."

0:43:020:43:07

I said, "Let's do sunrise, let's do some sunrise surfing tomorrow."

0:43:070:43:11

We'll surf for a couple of hours and go into work a little bit late.

0:43:110:43:15

And we had done that so many times,

0:43:150:43:17

and Stephen's usually the guy calling me.

0:43:170:43:19

But some other guys were on vacation so he couldn't go in late that day.

0:43:190:43:23

Cos if those guys, if Rob and Steve, if we'd gone surfing that morning,

0:43:260:43:31

they would have been on the later train and they would have,

0:43:310:43:34

they would have not been at work until after about nine o'clock.

0:43:340:43:38

And, you know, you look back and say, "If only if..."

0:43:400:43:42

This place is where Stephen lived and loved,

0:43:450:43:49

he lived in Long Beach at the time.

0:43:490:43:51

A few times I came down here afterwards,

0:43:510:43:53

you know, like a twin, people would confuse you.

0:43:530:43:55

One guy came running over, he's like, "Steve!

0:43:550:43:57

"Steve! I'm so glad you made it!"

0:43:570:43:59

And for a second he was so happy.

0:43:590:44:02

And as he got closer to me, he realised that I wasn't Steve.

0:44:020:44:06

He's like, "You're Steve's twin, aren't you?" And I said, "Yeah, I'm Greg."

0:44:060:44:10

I came home and found the video tape of, like, one of our football games or one of our weddings.

0:44:240:44:29

I had a need just to hear him, see him moving around.

0:44:300:44:33

Stephen and Greg's lives had always been inextricably linked.

0:44:400:44:45

From school, they went to college together

0:44:450:44:47

where they met their future wives, Gabrielle

0:44:470:44:52

and Aileen.

0:44:520:44:54

I liked her, I liked her right away. She was great.

0:44:570:45:00

We all melded together - it was the four of us.

0:45:000:45:03

We did everything together really.

0:45:030:45:05

We did. But I was afraid of her because...

0:45:050:45:08

I was so kind.

0:45:080:45:09

She wasn't.

0:45:090:45:11

I was so nice. What did I do to you?

0:45:110:45:13

She was definitely...

0:45:130:45:15

Intimidating.

0:45:150:45:16

She was intimidating. She was intimidating,

0:45:160:45:19

but she wanted to make sure that I was going to date Greg.

0:45:190:45:22

Because, you know, Stephen and Greg were like this, so I had to like her.

0:45:220:45:26

The four of us had the greatest time.

0:45:260:45:28

It really was unique. Very special.

0:45:280:45:30

It was just fun.

0:45:300:45:32

We'd just do things together.

0:45:320:45:34

-We moved near each other.

-Our lives were samey...

0:45:340:45:36

She had a baby, even though she was younger,

0:45:360:45:40

because I was like so not into it...

0:45:400:45:42

Sorry! Sorry but Mummy was the oldest girl.

0:45:420:45:45

I took care of my brothers and sisters, I was done.

0:45:450:45:48

You had Madison and I was like, "Stephen, this is unbelievable, we have to do this.".

0:45:480:45:52

A year later we had Madeline.

0:45:520:45:54

Gregory and Stephen did a lot of things, they coached football.

0:45:550:45:59

They did a lot of things together.

0:45:590:46:01

Because we really did love each other pretty instantly,

0:46:010:46:04

we did things together.

0:46:040:46:06

Also, when we were both equally angry at them at times,

0:46:060:46:09

we'd curse them together and it was comforting.

0:46:090:46:12

ALL TALK AT ONCE

0:46:120:46:15

I was a little jealous sometimes of anybody who was in a couple,

0:46:150:46:18

anybody who still had their husband. My husband was young. 36 years old.

0:46:180:46:22

It wasn't like he was sick.

0:46:220:46:24

He was healthy, beautiful, strong, you know,

0:46:240:46:26

and he's gone in one day.

0:46:260:46:28

One time at a wedding right after Steve died, I asked Gregory,

0:46:350:46:38

I said, "Dance with me. Don't talk.

0:46:380:46:43

"I want to pretend I'm dancing with your brother.".

0:46:430:46:45

Like in Ghost.

0:46:450:46:46

He was like, "OK". I was like, "I just want to dance with Steve, so just close your mouth."

0:46:460:46:50

You feel like him, just dance with me.

0:46:500:46:52

He did and it was wonderful and I closed my eyes,

0:46:520:46:55

and I danced with my husband in my head and it was wonderful.

0:46:550:46:59

And Gregory had said something that I never thought of when Stephen died.

0:47:030:47:08

He said, "We're like a car.

0:47:080:47:09

"You know, the four wheels and we're just cruising along.

0:47:090:47:12

"It was this beautiful relationship,

0:47:120:47:14

"and then one of the wheels was missing and everything just stopped."

0:47:140:47:18

It took almost a year for the pile to be cleared.

0:47:220:47:26

John's co-workers never stopped looking for him, never gave up hope.

0:47:260:47:32

We didn't know if we were going to get any remains, but it took seven months,

0:47:320:47:35

I got a call. "We found his gun, we're sending a car for you."

0:47:350:47:40

On April 11th 2002,

0:47:460:47:49

Dan helped carry his twin brother's body out of Ground Zero.

0:47:490:47:54

Someone said to me, "You suffered a loss among losses."

0:47:570:48:01

Twins certainly did.

0:48:010:48:04

There's a fatigue that comes with this,

0:48:040:48:06

that just lingers and lingers and lingers,

0:48:060:48:09

and that day we made the recovery

0:48:090:48:11

or June 11th when we did the internment,

0:48:110:48:14

that was the end of the beginning.

0:48:140:48:17

Unlike many whose loved one's remains were never found,

0:48:270:48:31

Dan was able to bury his brother.

0:48:310:48:34

All right, John, we'll see you next trip.

0:48:360:48:40

My focus after 9/11 was finding her,

0:48:460:48:50

and I was so zoned in on finding her, I didn't...

0:48:500:48:54

Nothing else mattered.

0:48:540:48:57

And then, when she wasn't found, it was like, "So what do I do now?"

0:48:570:49:01

Well, I stopped work for a while after that.

0:49:010:49:05

Stayed home.

0:49:050:49:07

It was like I just couldn't do anything.

0:49:070:49:10

It was like I didn't want to do anything.

0:49:100:49:12

I was just home most of the time.

0:49:120:49:14

It was two years before Linda felt able to leave the house

0:49:140:49:18

and return to her job as a schoolteacher.

0:49:180:49:22

During this time, her marriage ended.

0:49:220:49:25

Everything revolved around being a twin.

0:49:250:49:28

I thought eventually he would catch on, he would understand,

0:49:280:49:31

but that didn't happen.

0:49:310:49:33

I still tell my mother to this day

0:49:330:49:36

that I have poor social skills because I was a twin.

0:49:360:49:39

I didn't need to talk to anybody, didn't need to have any friends,

0:49:390:49:43

I didn't need to do things with other people because

0:49:430:49:46

we were always together.

0:49:460:49:48

If I knew then what I know now,

0:49:480:49:50

I think I would have developed, you know, more of a Linda personality,

0:49:500:49:54

as opposed to Brenda-Linda that we grew up as.

0:49:540:49:57

I remember the first anniversary,

0:49:570:49:59

I said, "Wow, one year as just Linda." You know.

0:49:590:50:04

And it seemed like every year is like,

0:50:040:50:06

"OK, this is two years as just Linda."

0:50:060:50:09

So I guess I'm turning ten years old in September.

0:50:090:50:14

I was very worried about Greg.

0:50:160:50:20

Gregory said at one point, it's like he...

0:50:200:50:24

When the first building fell down,

0:50:240:50:26

the second one was still standing

0:50:260:50:28

and it was burning, and that's how he felt - like the standing twin.

0:50:280:50:32

It was after a year,

0:50:350:50:36

and that's when it really hit me.

0:50:360:50:40

Because the shock was over.

0:50:400:50:42

I was very depressed, you know.

0:50:420:50:44

I remember one time, I would go for long walks,

0:50:440:50:46

and I remember on St Patrick's Day 2003,

0:50:460:50:49

walking out over the Brooklyn Bridge,

0:50:490:50:52

and I remember just looking out over one of the eye beams,

0:50:520:50:55

and said, "Look, if I..."

0:50:550:50:57

The pain...

0:50:570:50:58

The pain of loss was so emotional -

0:50:580:51:01

it was something that was just so powerful.

0:51:010:51:04

You couldn't just turn it on or turn it off.

0:51:060:51:08

It was very difficult, and very difficult to deal with.

0:51:080:51:11

I remember saying to myself,

0:51:110:51:12

"I jump up on there, I take five steps, jump, my pain will be over."

0:51:120:51:17

There was one morning when he said to me...

0:51:250:51:30

We were laying in bed and he said, "I was at my spot again."

0:51:300:51:33

I said, "What do you mean, your spot?"

0:51:330:51:35

"My spot."

0:51:350:51:36

"What does that mean, your spot?"

0:51:360:51:38

He said, "On the Brooklyn Bridge."

0:51:380:51:40

"Brooklyn Bridge? What do you mean?"

0:51:400:51:43

"Where I stand and think about jumping."

0:51:430:51:45

I was like, "OK, game over, we're done.

0:51:450:51:48

"I'm not doing this any more.".

0:51:480:51:50

And that is honestly what propelled me to say

0:51:500:51:53

we need to do something quick because that's not an option.

0:51:530:51:57

So I said,

0:52:000:52:02

"Let's have a support group, let's have a network."

0:52:020:52:05

I just wanted to build something so that they can have one another,

0:52:050:52:08

and the truth is, it was to take off some of my burden,

0:52:080:52:11

for some people to help Gregory because I couldn't do it.

0:52:110:52:15

The family, we did it to a certain extent, no doubt, but he needed more.

0:52:150:52:19

We brought 17 of the twins together for a social event in the city

0:52:220:52:27

and it was phenomenal.

0:52:270:52:29

You could see when people came in, they looked at each other,

0:52:290:52:32

and there was that unspoken language

0:52:320:52:34

that I was wanting to see and feel and have for the twins.

0:52:340:52:38

That's where your brother liked to go.

0:52:380:52:39

Today, ten years after the event, some of the twins still meet

0:52:390:52:44

to share memories.

0:52:440:52:46

These are the guys that died from my firehouse. 13 guys and my brother.

0:52:470:52:51

Your brother was a sergeant?

0:52:510:52:53

No, he was a regular White Shield police officer.

0:52:530:52:56

Were you identical?

0:52:560:52:58

You would think we were...

0:52:580:53:00

Yes, you guys...

0:53:000:53:01

..when you look at the pictures. No, we were fraternal.

0:53:010:53:05

I see my niece and nephew a lot.

0:53:050:53:07

I think sometime it gets to them because I sound so much like her,

0:53:070:53:10

so when I call, "You sound just like Mom."

0:53:100:53:14

One thing I did is I would blame myself for his death.

0:53:140:53:19

I never knew not being a twin.

0:53:190:53:22

There's nothing odd - that's why I'm amused by it all.

0:53:220:53:25

Everybody has a fascination with twins. To me, it's perfectly normal.

0:53:250:53:29

It does wonders for the healing in the heart

0:53:290:53:31

to know that, hey, you know, we got each other.

0:53:310:53:34

You don't have your twin, but you know what?

0:53:340:53:36

Maybe this is the next best thing.

0:53:360:53:39

It ain't oatmeal, but cornflakes ain't half bad sometimes!

0:53:390:53:42

So we can be like twins now.

0:53:430:53:46

You could be my twin sister.

0:53:460:53:48

You're stuck with me for life, that means. Sorry. I talk a lot.

0:53:480:53:51

That's good.

0:53:510:53:54

To speak to people,

0:53:540:53:56

and to share my feelings with other twins, was er...

0:53:560:53:59

..was monumental.

0:54:000:54:02

It was very important and satisfying.

0:54:020:54:06

With so few bodies recovered, making traditional burials impossible,

0:54:100:54:15

9/11 memorials have taken on a special significance.

0:54:150:54:20

I mean, they didn't recover any of my brother's remains

0:54:350:54:38

so I know he's still there.

0:54:380:54:40

I signed a waiver not to be identified if remains are found.

0:54:410:54:46

I just feel it'll bring up too much for me.

0:54:460:54:49

I don't know how I would react to that.

0:54:490:54:52

I know where my brother is.

0:54:520:54:54

You know, I can pray there when I want to pray there,

0:54:540:54:56

and I don't need to know any more.

0:54:560:54:58

What do you guys remember?

0:55:050:55:07

One thing has got to jump out when they say "Uncle Geoff".

0:55:070:55:10

Happiness.

0:55:100:55:12

Oh!

0:55:120:55:13

He was the happiest guy.

0:55:130:55:15

You guys weren't around then but your mother was in the picture.

0:55:150:55:18

I pray for my kids to be healthy and to be happy.

0:55:180:55:21

God willing, to get married and to have children,

0:55:210:55:25

but for me to see a pair of twins before I leave this Earth

0:55:250:55:29

would be a...

0:55:290:55:30

There would probably be nothing else I would ask for.

0:55:300:55:34

It's pretty ironic that I was a twin,

0:55:360:55:39

and now my partner and I have twin boys, Michael and Cooper.

0:55:390:55:42

I was so excited to be a twin,

0:55:420:55:44

and to know that my sons are now twins, I'm so happy for them.

0:55:440:55:48

I felt so satisfied for Lisa, believe it or not,

0:55:500:55:56

because Lisa was, "I'm good with one, we don't need two."

0:55:560:56:00

And I secretly

0:56:000:56:02

had always wanted twins, to watch her raise twins.

0:56:020:56:06

Yeah, yeah, you see your brother?

0:56:060:56:08

Yeah, yeah!

0:56:080:56:11

Since the boys have been born,

0:56:110:56:14

the happiness,

0:56:140:56:17

or completeness,

0:56:170:56:19

something fulfilled in her life since then, which is amazing.

0:56:190:56:23

What, what? Where's Mommy?

0:56:230:56:26

Where did Mommy go?

0:56:260:56:28

Here she is!

0:56:280:56:29

Michael, come on.

0:56:310:56:34

Hands up. Wheee!

0:56:350:56:37

Ten years after the tragedy of 9/11, the footprint of the Twin Towers

0:56:420:56:47

has been preserved as a monument to those who lost their lives.

0:56:470:56:52

Beside them, a single building, the Freedom Tower,

0:56:540:56:59

is under construction.

0:56:590:57:01

When completed, it will be the tallest building in the United States.

0:57:020:57:07

When it comes to twins,

0:57:150:57:17

the closeness is that much more intense. That's great.

0:57:170:57:21

On the downside, when you have the loss and the separation,

0:57:210:57:25

the bereavement is that much greater.

0:57:250:57:28

A big part of him died on 9/11,

0:57:360:57:38

that I know for sure.

0:57:380:57:40

Many of us would say that.

0:57:400:57:42

And it took him a long time to come back.

0:57:420:57:45

But he did, thank God.

0:57:450:57:48

I miss that guy so much.

0:57:510:57:53

I actually feel,

0:57:530:57:57

and I'm sure the other twins have said the same thing...

0:57:570:58:00

Um... I actually feel like I'm missing half of me.

0:58:030:58:08

Literally.

0:58:080:58:11

DISTANT SIRENS WAIL

0:58:110:58:13

So we kind of try to make ourselves feel better,

0:58:130:58:17

and we say that Geoff wouldn't have it any other way,

0:58:170:58:20

and he did what he wanted to do, and a lot of little cliches.

0:58:200:58:24

But, of course, we wish things could be different, but...

0:58:240:58:30

Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all,

0:58:330:58:36

we always say.

0:58:360:58:38

And it was, er...

0:58:380:58:39

That's the way it is.

0:58:430:58:45

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0:58:540:58:57

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0:58:570:59:01

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