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This programme contains some strong language. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
-PHONE RINGS -'Thank you for calling | 0:00:04 | 0:00:06 | |
'the London Fire And Emergency Planning Authority. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
'If your call is for an emergency please hang up and redial 999.' | 0:00:09 | 0:00:13 | |
I was just wondering if you have any information | 0:00:13 | 0:00:17 | |
from a fire in January 1986, | 0:00:17 | 0:00:18 | |
I appreciate it's quite a long time ago. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:22 | |
I was in a caravan fire. | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
I was a baby, I was only a few weeks old. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
I was born into a Gypsy family. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
My mum was white, | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
so was her husband, and I came out black. | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
The story I was told was that my mum put me in a caravan | 0:00:36 | 0:00:40 | |
and set light to it. | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
So I guess she didn't want me around. | 0:00:42 | 0:00:45 | |
After the fire, Annie was taken into care, and later adopted by a white, | 0:00:47 | 0:00:52 | |
non-Gypsy family. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
-That's exciting, isn't it, guys? -Yeah. -A little road trip! | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
Fascinated by her story and extraordinary resilience, | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
I'm going to spend the next four months helping Annie learn more about where she came from. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:07 | |
I want to look into my past. | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
Will it impact my identity, my core values? | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
I've had so many other things to take on board, adoption, | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
being burnt, being mixed race. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:19 | |
I feel like a bit of a blur, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:21 | |
I don't feel like I'm part of any one group. | 0:01:21 | 0:01:24 | |
'I'm very interested in any information you may have | 0:01:24 | 0:01:27 | |
'about the original residents.' | 0:01:27 | 0:01:29 | |
Someone rescued me, I don't know who. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:32 | |
I've been led to believe that someone saw the fire, | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
saw what happened, took me out of the caravan, | 0:01:34 | 0:01:38 | |
and then put me in hospital. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
We want to see if it is possible to find out who rescued Annie. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
If I was to meet the person that saved me, I would be very overwhelmed. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:49 | |
Because what do you say? | 0:01:49 | 0:01:50 | |
You gave me life. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:53 | |
Keep going, keep going, keep going! | 0:02:02 | 0:02:04 | |
Last little bit! | 0:02:04 | 0:02:06 | |
30-year-old Annie is a personal trainer | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
and runs a gym with her fiance, Sam. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:11 | |
Fitness, for me, has always been about adding value to my life. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:17 | |
Can I find out where my limit is? | 0:02:17 | 0:02:20 | |
I like feeling strong. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
-I'm looking forward to having this as a nice fireplace. -Sounds good to me. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
Annie and Sam are in the process of setting up home together | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
and are planning to get married next year. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:34 | |
I like the lounge, we just need to get a lamp head. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
This is definitely the start of a new chapter. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
I hope we can have a family in the near future. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:43 | |
That's why I'm interested in finding out more about my own history. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
How are you feeling about the whole thing over the next few weeks? | 0:02:48 | 0:02:51 | |
I don't know. I haven't really let myself think of it. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:54 | |
It sounds ridiculous now, after what we're about to do. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
At the moment, I'm just hoping I don't upset anyone. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
I'm a bit nervous, but appropriately nervous, I think. | 0:03:01 | 0:03:03 | |
Because you don't know what to expect. I hope that it all... | 0:03:03 | 0:03:07 | |
Yeah, I don't know, you almost don't want to let yourself hope for | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
something really good, just in case it's, you know... | 0:03:10 | 0:03:14 | |
You've probably never been in a better position, as well, | 0:03:14 | 0:03:17 | |
in terms of the amount of people that actually care for you, | 0:03:17 | 0:03:21 | |
and that are around you to actually put yourself in a position where | 0:03:21 | 0:03:24 | |
there's going to be a bit of uncertainty. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
-So... -I completely agree with that. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:28 | |
Either way, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
you can fall a million ways and know that you're going to be fine. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:33 | |
It's true, isn't it? | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
That's a lovely thing to say. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
I've been practising that for a week! | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
Hey, we could have a glass of wine at some point. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
I suppose you can't, because you're driving, but we can in life. I have so many questions for you. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
-Yes, we should actually. -I'd love that. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
OK. One question I do need to ask, which is a difficult one. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
How did it feel when you were growing up, | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
to know that the woman who gave birth to you wanted to kill you? | 0:03:59 | 0:04:02 | |
I don't think any person with a happy, | 0:04:04 | 0:04:09 | |
normal childhood would think that's an option, | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
to do that to their child. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:13 | |
So I kind of just felt bad for her. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:14 | |
I don't know what kind of life she must have had. | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
I was a baby. She didn't know who I was. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
She wasn't trying to kill me as a human being as I am, as a person. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:24 | |
She didn't want me, for whatever reason. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:28 | |
But you can't condone those things. | 0:04:28 | 0:04:30 | |
Annie's made it clear to me that this isn't about finding long-lost family. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
It's about understanding the culture, | 0:04:34 | 0:04:37 | |
characters and events that led to a fire which nearly killed her. | 0:04:37 | 0:04:41 | |
And trying to find out who saved her. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:43 | |
-You feeling all right? -Yeah. | 0:04:43 | 0:04:45 | |
The one person who holds some clues about Annie's past is her adoptive mum. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:52 | |
What I've brought with me are official documents. | 0:04:52 | 0:04:55 | |
I've never found the right time to introduce them. | 0:04:55 | 0:04:59 | |
Annie might be quite cross with me, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
because I've kept them hidden for so many years. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
I don't know how she's going to react. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
Maggie already had two children of her own before adopting Annie. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:11 | |
This is going to sound really soppy, but | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
I found with both of my other two, | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
there was an actual, physical bonding process, | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
as in, I felt this thing. I cannot describe it. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
But it was physical. This is my child. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:26 | |
And I'll do everything I can to look after this child. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:30 | |
And Annie was probably, I think she was about 18 months, | 0:05:30 | 0:05:34 | |
I thought, "This child needs me with her when she wakes up in the night, | 0:05:34 | 0:05:38 | |
"when she is waking up with all these bandages on her and everything." | 0:05:38 | 0:05:42 | |
And that was... I just thought, "I want to keep her." | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
-That's lovely. -So that's when we started the process. | 0:05:45 | 0:05:49 | |
-Hiya. -Hello. How are you? | 0:05:49 | 0:05:52 | |
-I'm fine, how are you, my dear? -I'm really good, thank you. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
-Are you going to make me one of these nice coffees, then, Annie? -I will indeed. | 0:05:57 | 0:06:00 | |
My relationship with my adoptive mum is very good, I would say. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
I'm very lucky to have a lady like her bring me up. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:09 | |
So, you're going to have to show me the gym. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:11 | |
-Did you bring your kit? -Don't be silly! | 0:06:11 | 0:06:13 | |
When did I last have gym kit? | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
Shall we go in the living room? | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
I grew up in a very happy house, and a very strong house, | 0:06:18 | 0:06:20 | |
in a way that you will always be proud of who you are and... | 0:06:20 | 0:06:25 | |
I definitely owe that to her. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:29 | |
Keep your drink well away, please. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
Because these are originals, before the days of computers and all the rest of it. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:35 | |
We should have probably got these documents out years ago. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
We did, Mum. We did. | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
I didn't want to see them. It's not your fault. | 0:06:41 | 0:06:45 | |
"Biddy describes herself as an Irish Gypsy. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:47 | |
"She is approximately five foot six tall, | 0:06:47 | 0:06:50 | |
"is well built, has dark hair, | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
"and striking blue eyes." | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
She's taller than me, then. | 0:06:54 | 0:06:56 | |
"Biddy has been described as seeming to be quite intelligent, | 0:06:56 | 0:06:59 | |
"and articulate, although illiterate." | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
These attributes make her more human. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
"Her behaviour prior to Annie's birth would indicate that she | 0:07:07 | 0:07:11 | |
"finds it difficult to place the needs of her child before her own. | 0:07:11 | 0:07:14 | |
"Although this may have been related to her mental instability." | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
What the hell does that mean? | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
Annie, I don't know. I always tried to give you the truth, | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
but as much as I thought was appropriate. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
It was widely suspected by both the Gypsy community and the social worker | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
that Annie's birth mum left her alone in a caravan | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
and set fire to it. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:36 | |
Social services always said, "If we thought we could have grounds for | 0:07:36 | 0:07:41 | |
"prosecution, we would be trying to prosecute, but we have no witnesses, | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
"no proof of anything." | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
-Yeah. -But they didn't ever really believe that it was a total accident. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:51 | |
-You feeling all right? -Yeah, I am, it's just a lot to take in. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
I haven't really got much to say. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:57 | |
Annie's birth mum kept the identity of the biological father | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
a secret from everyone. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
Even before the fire, | 0:08:05 | 0:08:06 | |
she'd already expressed her concerns about keeping Annie. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:09 | |
"Biddy has on two occasions requested that Annie be placed for adoption | 0:08:11 | 0:08:15 | |
"on the grounds that a mixed-race child, of uncertain parentage, | 0:08:15 | 0:08:18 | |
"would not be accepted by the family | 0:08:18 | 0:08:20 | |
"and that both mother and child would be ostracised. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
"She recognises that her infidelity is of a most serious nature." | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
When Annie was 13 years old, she was shown a news report stating that her | 0:08:32 | 0:08:36 | |
birth mother had died that year. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
"A 32-year-old caused a fire by dropping a cigarette | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
"after falling asleep, managed to dial 999 for help." | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
It's a very strange coincidence that she died through third-degree burns. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:50 | |
The percentage that I've got myself. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:53 | |
"After giving her address, she had said, 'I can't stop the fire. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:56 | |
" 'My skin is burned. Save me, I can't stop.' " | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
I didn't feel a huge loss in that way that I guess most people would. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:06 | |
But I did feel like it was quite final | 0:09:06 | 0:09:09 | |
in the way that if I ever want an answer, obviously, | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
I'm never going to get it. | 0:09:12 | 0:09:13 | |
I glued my hair today. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
Now I've got glue all over the other hair. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
So if you see big clumps of glue in my hair, | 0:09:23 | 0:09:27 | |
it won't be glue colour, it will be... | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
..like, just stuck-together hair. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
Just tell me, and I'll have to cut my fucking hair! | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
Have you got your own hair? | 0:09:36 | 0:09:38 | |
I've got a tiny bit, but I basically shaved it off, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:41 | |
so it's pretty much... | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
Annie's has a lifetime of surgery on her burns, | 0:09:46 | 0:09:49 | |
and is currently considering another operation on her nose. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:52 | |
How are you getting on? | 0:09:52 | 0:09:54 | |
Yeah, really good. It feels tons better. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:57 | |
That's gone pretty well, apart from the scarring. | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
-Yeah. -It looks a bit lumpy. -Yeah. | 0:09:59 | 0:10:01 | |
Over the years, my burns haven't really affected me terribly, | 0:10:01 | 0:10:05 | |
but I do think I've engineered that. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
I remember a couple of times, | 0:10:10 | 0:10:11 | |
a couple of kids at school said something, | 0:10:11 | 0:10:14 | |
but, at the time, it didn't really bother me that much. | 0:10:14 | 0:10:18 | |
I was very lucky I had a lot of good friends around. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
I think I might have kicked a boy in the shin | 0:10:20 | 0:10:22 | |
after he'd said something rude. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:24 | |
The keloid, like, the lumps here, have you seen other people with it, | 0:10:24 | 0:10:28 | |
-and does it go down? -It does tend to go down, yeah. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:30 | |
-Does it really? -Over time, yeah. -Does it? -Yeah, it does. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:33 | |
Social services were originally holding out for an Afro-Caribbean family for Annie. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:39 | |
Until they finally agreed to Maggie adopting her, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:43 | |
she was still officially in care. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:45 | |
There was a lot of time that the doctors wanted me to have lots | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
of operations when I was younger. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
Because I was a child of the state and not actually belonging to any one person, | 0:10:50 | 0:10:54 | |
to sort of stick in my corner, they were kind of, like, | 0:10:54 | 0:10:56 | |
score, because you don't often get someone that's that badly burnt | 0:10:56 | 0:11:00 | |
and alive. So they got to try out lots of operations. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:04 | |
They wanted me to have my hairline moved forward. | 0:11:04 | 0:11:08 | |
I wasn't convinced. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:10 | |
It would have taken me out of time to see my friends, being at school, | 0:11:10 | 0:11:13 | |
training. I was trampolining at the time. | 0:11:13 | 0:11:16 | |
So a lot of operations I could have had, I didn't. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:20 | |
I think what we've discussed before is to try and lengthen the nose, | 0:11:20 | 0:11:25 | |
and bring the tip of the nose down. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
My mum made the right decision, I think, | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
to decide to get me to keep living with how I looked, going to school, | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
making friends, you know. | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
I had to, more importantly, | 0:11:39 | 0:11:40 | |
deal with looking how I do than trying to spend my whole life, | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
especially the early years, trying to make it better. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
-See you soon, hopefully. -See you. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
Getting on with things makes you just focus on, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
A, the things you want to do in life, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
and how you can cope in situations if problems arise. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
Could I have grown up with a lot more anger? | 0:12:01 | 0:12:03 | |
Of course. That's the easy option, I think. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
To be quick to hate. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
But why waste your life? What a waste of a life! | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
To be sad and angry, it would be ridiculous. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:14 | |
There'd be no point in being saved at all. | 0:12:14 | 0:12:16 | |
It's clear that the effort it's taken Annie to come this far in life | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
has been huge. | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
I can see why it's only now she's ready to delve deeper into | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
the story behind her scars | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
and learn more about the culture she was born into. | 0:12:28 | 0:12:32 | |
Going back to your birth mum, and what you were told happened, | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
what do you think would have been the thing that brought the most shame on the family? | 0:12:36 | 0:12:40 | |
Was it your colour, do you think? Or the fact that she'd had an affair? | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
My adoptive mum did mention that it would have been very difficult | 0:12:43 | 0:12:46 | |
growing up being mixed-race... | 0:12:46 | 0:12:49 | |
..in a Gypsy community. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
I know that that was part of it. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:54 | |
But I don't know. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
I don't know. | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
Annie has never mixed with Gypsies, | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
and hasn't been on a caravan site since she was a baby. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
My adoptive mum made a huge effort | 0:13:05 | 0:13:07 | |
to make sure we spoke about Travellers, Gypsies a lot | 0:13:07 | 0:13:11 | |
in a way that the books I read, | 0:13:11 | 0:13:13 | |
it was included in my upbringing. | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
I don't want to pretend that I know huge amounts about Gypsy culture. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:22 | |
Mainly because I haven't lived it. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:24 | |
I'm meeting a guy called Joe Jones, | 0:13:24 | 0:13:26 | |
who I was put in touch with through the Gypsy Council. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
So I'm looking forward to actually getting to chat to someone | 0:13:29 | 0:13:32 | |
face-to-face, and ask all my questions. | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
-Hello. Joseph? -Yeah, I'm Joe. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
-Lovely to meet you. -This is Josef. How are you? | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
-Really good. How are you? -Fine, thank you. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
The Gypsy Council act as spokespeople for Romanies and | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
Travellers across the UK. | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
The portrayal of Gypsies in the media seems very one-sided, | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
and very, very shocking. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:55 | |
They definitely seem to have picked out all of the harsher, | 0:13:55 | 0:13:59 | |
scarier stories of Travellers. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:02 | |
Brilliant, this is great. | 0:14:03 | 0:14:04 | |
I always like that they've got a very strong culture, and look after one another | 0:14:04 | 0:14:09 | |
and are, like, a big group. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
You could say that we lived a sheltered life. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:14 | |
But then, we lived a life, the media and politicians, councillors, | 0:14:14 | 0:14:22 | |
they all still believe in a 500-year-old myth. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:27 | |
They don't realise that we're human beings, like anyone else. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:31 | |
The only difference between us is that we like living | 0:14:31 | 0:14:33 | |
in close family units, and we like to live in caravans. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:38 | |
I want to pay my council tax. | 0:14:38 | 0:14:40 | |
I want to pay income tax. | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
I want to be a part of the community. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:44 | |
But I also want to be a Gypsy. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
That's the bit they can't get. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:49 | |
So what made you want to embark on this now? | 0:14:51 | 0:14:53 | |
I was burnt in a fire when I was a baby, in a caravan fire. | 0:14:53 | 0:14:57 | |
I nearly lost two children in a caravan fire. | 0:14:57 | 0:14:59 | |
-Really? -Yeah. My John boy and Kelly. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
-Oh, my gosh. -It was quite common. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
Caravan fires in them days were open fires. | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
-Right, OK. -Yeah. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:08 | |
-Yeah. -You would have the doors open in your trailer. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
You only had one form of heating, and that was that. | 0:15:11 | 0:15:14 | |
Then they went over to paraffin, which was quite explosive. | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
How often would you say a caravan is set alight on purpose? | 0:15:18 | 0:15:22 | |
Or would you say that...? | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
The only time that a caravan is deliberately set alight | 0:15:24 | 0:15:29 | |
is after the funeral. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
The community itself, to burn a caravan deliberately, no. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:37 | |
I can't see that that would be... There wouldn't be any reason for it. | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
So my birth mother, I was told, | 0:15:41 | 0:15:44 | |
put me in a caravan, and set light to it. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:47 | |
No. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
Why would she do that? | 0:15:51 | 0:15:53 | |
Because her husband was also Gypsy and he was white | 0:15:53 | 0:15:57 | |
and I came out black. | 0:15:57 | 0:15:59 | |
There's no Gypsy mother, or Irish Traveller mother, I know... | 0:15:59 | 0:16:03 | |
They would rather run off with that chappy than do such a thing. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:08 | |
Listen to me, | 0:16:08 | 0:16:10 | |
I know the travelling women, | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
they'd have gone off with an Afro-Caribbean, yeah, | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
and had children by them and stuck by them | 0:16:16 | 0:16:18 | |
and been dogmatised and vilified by their own community. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:21 | |
There's no way in the world. | 0:16:21 | 0:16:23 | |
I wouldn't believe that. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:24 | |
Do you want to stop? | 0:16:24 | 0:16:26 | |
-What? -Do you want to stop? | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
No, it's fine. I'm not blaming anyone for it. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
No, I wouldn't believe that. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:34 | |
That's something I wouldn't believe. | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
I've known one thing for ages. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
I now almost feel bad that I've... | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
I've never blamed anyone, but imagine, like, you hear one thing, and then... | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
I feel like an idiot. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:46 | |
I feel, why would I not circle-dance around this story? | 0:16:46 | 0:16:50 | |
I normally question everything. Why would I not question that? | 0:16:50 | 0:16:53 | |
It's all hearsay. | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
You don't know the facts. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:56 | |
If there was any evidence whatsoever, right, | 0:16:56 | 0:17:00 | |
she would have been prosecuted. | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
She would be in Holloway. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:04 | |
She would have done a long time. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:06 | |
In the 1980s there were an average | 0:17:21 | 0:17:23 | |
of 2,000 caravan fires every year across the UK, | 0:17:23 | 0:17:27 | |
many of which were fatal. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:29 | |
Think of her now, think, poor thing, like, horrible. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
Is that what's upsetting you, your mum? | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
When I first realised that I thought it might not be deliberate, it | 0:17:42 | 0:17:45 | |
sort of knocked me for six a little bit. | 0:17:45 | 0:17:47 | |
Made me feel very... I was very shocked. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
My first feeling was that I felt bad. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:51 | |
I felt really guilty. So realising that, I just felt this overwhelming | 0:17:51 | 0:17:55 | |
feeling of, "Oh, you know, like... | 0:17:55 | 0:17:57 | |
"Why wouldn't you give her a chance?" | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
I presumed everything I'd heard was gospel, | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
and I kept it in a little box and thought that was it | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
and just left it there, instead of logically thinking about it. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
You know, who would want to harm someone in that manner? | 0:18:08 | 0:18:12 | |
It's unlikely. I felt like I should have made more of an effort and dug | 0:18:12 | 0:18:15 | |
deeper into what happened. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:17 | |
Although Joe Jones believes it was an accident, | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
he has seen mothers in similar situations being vilified | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
by the Gypsy community. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:28 | |
We want to know what kind of life Annie and her birth mum | 0:18:28 | 0:18:32 | |
might have had if Annie hadn't been taken into care. | 0:18:32 | 0:18:35 | |
So, I found out about this guy, Joe King, so he's part Romany Gypsy | 0:18:35 | 0:18:40 | |
and part black. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:42 | |
He grew up between two homes - | 0:18:42 | 0:18:45 | |
a home in a house and a caravan site. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:48 | |
So I'm really interested to meet him | 0:18:48 | 0:18:50 | |
and see how his life has been different. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:53 | |
-Hi, Joe. -Hey. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
Hello. Lovely to meet you. | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
You too. Have you ate a lot of Caribbean food? | 0:19:03 | 0:19:06 | |
-Not a great deal. -This is going to be good for you, then. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:10 | |
I don't actually identify with being mixed race, | 0:19:10 | 0:19:14 | |
but not any more than I don't identify... | 0:19:14 | 0:19:16 | |
It's the same as being a girl, or... | 0:19:16 | 0:19:17 | |
It's just part of me, but I'm not going to be, like, | 0:19:17 | 0:19:19 | |
"Oh, I'm mixed race. I'd better have more rice and peas." | 0:19:19 | 0:19:23 | |
So you are also a Gypsy. | 0:19:23 | 0:19:27 | |
From which side, is it your mum? | 0:19:27 | 0:19:28 | |
My mum. My mum's full Romany. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
-Yeah. -My mum was one of 13. | 0:19:31 | 0:19:34 | |
So she got pregnant, she didn't tell any of the Gypsy side | 0:19:34 | 0:19:38 | |
of our families what colour the baby was going to be. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:41 | |
They'd probably never even seen a black person. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:43 | |
-Oh, really? -In 1968. | 0:19:43 | 0:19:45 | |
-There was none. -No. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:47 | |
And when I popped out, the first thing my nan said was, | 0:19:47 | 0:19:51 | |
"Don't bring that thing home." | 0:19:51 | 0:19:53 | |
-Oh, no. -That was my introduction to Gypsy life. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:57 | |
Then racism, and everything else, | 0:19:57 | 0:20:00 | |
kind of got hold of my mum. | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
I was accepted by my side of the family | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
and I was accepted after a period of time. | 0:20:05 | 0:20:08 | |
But it was a constant struggle for my mum, and definitely for me, | 0:20:08 | 0:20:12 | |
having to kind of fight everywhere I went | 0:20:12 | 0:20:14 | |
and just being called names, like, we all know the names, | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
the kind of names that you get called. | 0:20:17 | 0:20:20 | |
-So my mum was married to another Gypsy. -Right. -They were both white, I came out black. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:23 | |
-She had an affair. -Obviously, she had an affair, yeah. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:27 | |
They deal with cheating different to how we would deal with things. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:30 | |
We've moved on a bit, but we're talking 30-odd years ago. | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
-How old are you? 30? -Mmm. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
It's a man's world. Back then it was even more of a man's world. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:38 | |
It's OK for men to kind of do certain things, but not for women. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:42 | |
So the fact that your mum's had an affair, bang, that's one. | 0:20:42 | 0:20:46 | |
And the fact that it was an affair with a black person, | 0:20:46 | 0:20:48 | |
bringing him a black baby, I can only imagine. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:51 | |
-I can't even imagine... -Really? -No. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
How hard that must have been for her. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:57 | |
She knows how tight-whipped and how tight-knit the Gypsy site is. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
I think your mum would have probably been | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
the worst person ever on that site. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
The fact that she has had an affair, and with a black person. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:11 | |
Joe's perspective has shown Annie the hostility her birth mother | 0:21:18 | 0:21:22 | |
might have faced from the community. | 0:21:22 | 0:21:24 | |
Someone under that much pressure | 0:21:24 | 0:21:26 | |
might well have resorted to extreme behaviour. | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
Maybe it was her idea of getting out of a troubled situation that she | 0:21:30 | 0:21:35 | |
thought she was in. And that was the option that she thought was the only | 0:21:35 | 0:21:39 | |
one that she could take. Which is horrible. | 0:21:39 | 0:21:41 | |
I feel terrible for her. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:43 | |
'I'm just calling because I'm interested in getting hold of some files. | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
'There was a caravan fire in January.' | 0:21:53 | 0:21:55 | |
Opinions on what might have happened on that night 30 years ago | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
have given Annie a greater understanding of the community. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
Now we want to see what facts might be out there about the fire itself. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
I think this is as close to pure fact as I'm going to get. | 0:22:07 | 0:22:09 | |
These archives hold historical records for the London Fire Brigade. | 0:22:12 | 0:22:16 | |
-Hi, Annie. -Hi. -I'm David, nice to meet you. -Nice to meet you. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:21 | |
That covers every fire on the 4th of January. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
-Brilliant. -Is it scary? -Definitely scary, yeah. | 0:22:24 | 0:22:28 | |
Hackney. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:32 | |
There's loads of ones of cars. What if it wasn't a caravan? | 0:22:35 | 0:22:38 | |
Here we go. This looks like it. There we go. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
Sandy Lane, Mitcham, Surrey. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:46 | |
B Smith. | 0:22:46 | 0:22:48 | |
Oh, fuck! I'm really hot. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
My name's on there. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:54 | |
SHE CRIES | 0:22:55 | 0:22:57 | |
Seeing all the names on there, it just makes it more, like, | 0:23:02 | 0:23:06 | |
I don't know... I don't know, I can't figure it out. | 0:23:06 | 0:23:09 | |
I want Sam here, though. | 0:23:09 | 0:23:11 | |
Just tell me what you want to do. Do you want to have a little...? | 0:23:13 | 0:23:16 | |
Do you want to stop the camera for a bit? | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
I don't really care, I just want to read it. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
But I keep looking at it, and I'm not taking anything in. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:24 | |
Records are... can be about revelation. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:27 | |
You know. With stories becoming truth, or truth becoming stories. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
Yeah. Approximate total number | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
who left the affected property because of the fire - two. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
Annie always believed she was in the fire alone, | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
but this report clearly contradicts that. | 0:23:40 | 0:23:43 | |
Briddie and Biddy are both short for Bridget. | 0:23:43 | 0:23:47 | |
Was it her birth mum in there with her, or was it someone else? | 0:23:47 | 0:23:51 | |
Her being 45 when I was a baby doesn't make sense. | 0:23:51 | 0:23:54 | |
And in a newspaper report that explained her death, | 0:23:54 | 0:23:57 | |
she would have come in at about 37, 38. | 0:23:57 | 0:24:00 | |
That's a good ten, 12 years later than this. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:05 | |
Either that is wrong or this is wrong. | 0:24:05 | 0:24:08 | |
Now, look, I've got 100 questions. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:10 | |
"Supposed cause of fire... | 0:24:10 | 0:24:12 | |
"Unrecorded, pending recovery or otherwise." | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
Like, they said they don't know who saved me and that? | 0:24:17 | 0:24:20 | |
What does that mean? | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
-Do we know? -I wish I knew. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:24 | |
-Do you want me to come over and have a look? -Yeah. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
The way these things work, as I understand them, is they would be... | 0:24:27 | 0:24:31 | |
they're reports filled out by the Fire Brigade. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
The terms within them, I'm afraid, I genuinely don't know what they mean. | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
You would probably have to ask the firefighters themselves. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:40 | |
There is one name on the report that we hope will lead us to the truth, | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
the station officer in charge of putting out the fire. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
It's good that I've got a name. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:50 | |
'Please say the name of the person or department you wish to contact.' | 0:24:50 | 0:24:53 | |
JK Backers. | 0:24:53 | 0:24:55 | |
'Was that Craig Prescott?' | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
-No. -'Please say the name of another person or department.' | 0:24:58 | 0:25:02 | |
-Merton Fire Department. -'Was that Mark Jones?' | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
No. It was Merton. | 0:25:06 | 0:25:09 | |
'Please hold for the operator.' | 0:25:09 | 0:25:11 | |
'Saffron, server support team.' | 0:25:11 | 0:25:12 | |
Hi, I'm just calling because I've recently gone through some records | 0:25:12 | 0:25:17 | |
and a gentleman's name, JK Backers, came up. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
I was wondering if he's still working for you, or you know of him. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:26 | |
'No, he's not on the system.' | 0:25:26 | 0:25:29 | |
Sorry for being a pain, it's just that it says that he did work for you, | 0:25:29 | 0:25:32 | |
and he's on the records. | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
'No, I can't see nothing on the system for him.' | 0:25:34 | 0:25:38 | |
OK. | 0:25:38 | 0:25:39 | |
I'm not sure how to get hold of him. | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
There's got to be another way, but I can't quite think now. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
I don't think I'm thinking very clearly at the moment. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
The fire was on an unauthorised caravan site. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
Sandy Lane? This has got to be it. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
I've been here before. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:08 | |
It was a temporary stopping place that's now been built on, | 0:26:11 | 0:26:14 | |
but we want to see if anyone in the area might remember it. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:18 | |
I haven't seen any now, in the years I've been here. | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
I've never really heard anyone speaking about any either. | 0:26:23 | 0:26:26 | |
But I know, you hear people speaking about the past, | 0:26:26 | 0:26:29 | |
that there was a lot of Travellers around. | 0:26:29 | 0:26:31 | |
Hello. I've just got a very random question for you. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:36 | |
How long have you been here? How long has this been here? | 0:26:36 | 0:26:38 | |
-The garage has been here, oh, about 50 years. -50 years? | 0:26:38 | 0:26:43 | |
-Amazing. -I've actually been here... I'm 59, I've been here 45. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:48 | |
45. Amazing. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
Do you know if there was any ever sort of caravan, like, | 0:26:50 | 0:26:53 | |
Gypsy traveller sites on Sandy Lane or around this area? | 0:26:53 | 0:26:57 | |
I've never known one in Sandy Lane. | 0:26:57 | 0:26:58 | |
-Literally round the corner? -No. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:00 | |
-Never? -Not that I'd... -You would know. It literally would have been around the corner. | 0:27:00 | 0:27:05 | |
That's literally around the corner, yeah. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:07 | |
It seems the site of the fire was so transitory, | 0:27:07 | 0:27:10 | |
that it was barely even noticed or remembered by locals. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
What do you mean, I was burnt in a caravan, and there's no bloody caravan? | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
What the fuck? Literally, what the flying fuck! | 0:27:17 | 0:27:19 | |
I feel like I'm, like, Calamity Jane. | 0:27:19 | 0:27:22 | |
I feel like I'm being stupid. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
-I don't think you are. We're confused as well. -I don't get it. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:27 | |
I just need something to hold on to here. This is so fucking weird. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:32 | |
Frustrated by all the dead ends, | 0:27:46 | 0:27:48 | |
Annie wants to press on with | 0:27:48 | 0:27:50 | |
learning more about the Gypsy community. | 0:27:50 | 0:27:52 | |
Hi. Hello. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
-Alvey, I'm Annie. -Alvey. | 0:27:55 | 0:27:56 | |
-Lovely to meet you. -Nice to meet you. | 0:27:56 | 0:27:59 | |
Thank you so much for having me here. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:01 | |
Joe Jones has invited us to a caravan site in Kent where they teach people | 0:28:02 | 0:28:07 | |
about Gypsy history. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:09 | |
Basically, what we're trying to do is change people's mind-set on Gypsies and Travellers. | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
That's basically what we're all about. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
And also, keeping the old ways alive. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:16 | |
-Yeah. -Because if you don't know where you've come from, | 0:28:16 | 0:28:20 | |
how do you know where you're going? | 0:28:20 | 0:28:21 | |
-Can I have a little poke around? -Yeah. -Look. | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
They're so nice. | 0:28:26 | 0:28:27 | |
Do you feel in any way like a Gypsy yourself? | 0:28:27 | 0:28:31 | |
I can identify with being part Gypsy | 0:28:32 | 0:28:35 | |
in the way that it's always been part of my story, if you like. | 0:28:35 | 0:28:39 | |
The children would sleep underneath, in the old days. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
And there was a seat this side and a seat that side. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:46 | |
And then you done all the cooking on the fire. | 0:28:46 | 0:28:49 | |
Everything was done on that fire in the winter. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
My mum's always made comments, growing up, about me being a Gypsy. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:56 | |
Little things I used to do. | 0:28:56 | 0:28:57 | |
But is this nature, is it nurture? | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
I don't... I'm really interested in that, always have been. | 0:28:59 | 0:29:02 | |
Annie's birth mum was an Irish Traveller | 0:29:02 | 0:29:05 | |
who had married into a Romany Gypsy family. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:09 | |
I was led to believe that I would have been rejected by the community, | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
the Gypsy community, because I was black. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
Non-Gypsy people would actually believe that. | 0:29:15 | 0:29:17 | |
But in ourselves, we know that's not true. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:21 | |
We wouldn't reject any dark-skinned children, no. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:24 | |
It's impossible. | 0:29:24 | 0:29:26 | |
See this woman here. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:27 | |
-Yeah. -She's a very dark woman, coal black, she was. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
Yeah, her hair looks kind of Afro. | 0:29:30 | 0:29:32 | |
Yeah. That's my granny. | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
-Really? -That's my dad's mum. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
-No way. -Yeah. | 0:29:36 | 0:29:37 | |
We originated from India. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:40 | |
So it runs through our genetics. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:44 | |
How do you class yourself, if you understand what I mean? | 0:29:44 | 0:29:46 | |
If someone said, "Oh, where are you from?" it depends how sort of... | 0:29:46 | 0:29:50 | |
how much I fancy telling a person on the day, if I'm honest. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:54 | |
It's never something that I don't tell people because I'm embarrassed, | 0:29:54 | 0:29:57 | |
it's just always something I would... | 0:29:57 | 0:29:59 | |
People are always asking me questions. "What happened to your face? You look tanned. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:03 | |
"Oh, you're black. Oh, you're Irish. Oh, you're Gypsy, but you live here. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:07 | |
"Oh, but all your family are white. You're black." You know what I mean? | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
So many little bits and bobs. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:12 | |
If you're black, white, pink, purple, whatever colour you are, | 0:30:12 | 0:30:14 | |
you should be proud of what you are. | 0:30:14 | 0:30:17 | |
And them burns on your face is nothing. | 0:30:17 | 0:30:20 | |
It's what's here that's the main thing. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:22 | |
-Yeah. -We all carry scars one way or another. | 0:30:22 | 0:30:25 | |
How do you see us? | 0:30:26 | 0:30:27 | |
How do I see you? | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
It just feels, honestly, it feels really normal. | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
I feel like I've known you for ages. I feel really relaxed and... | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
That's how you should be. | 0:30:35 | 0:30:36 | |
Of course, yeah, it should be like that. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:38 | |
Most Gypsy people, right, | 0:30:38 | 0:30:40 | |
have always had prejudice against them, one way or another. | 0:30:40 | 0:30:45 | |
So, as us being Gypsies, right, | 0:30:47 | 0:30:51 | |
we couldn't be prejudiced against anyone. | 0:30:51 | 0:30:53 | |
Because we've had it so much against us. | 0:30:55 | 0:30:58 | |
I found the whole community very family orientated. | 0:31:01 | 0:31:04 | |
Which was really nice. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
Very warm. Very inclusive. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
You know, why wouldn't you want to take those values with you? | 0:31:09 | 0:31:13 | |
We're still unclear about the identity of the other person in the fire with Annie, | 0:31:16 | 0:31:20 | |
the woman listed as being 45. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
So we want to see if it was reported in any local papers. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
-Which particular year? -'86. -OK. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
-Excellent, thank you. Thank you very much. -You're welcome. | 0:31:30 | 0:31:33 | |
Police crackdown, no... | 0:31:36 | 0:31:38 | |
God, this is horrible. | 0:31:40 | 0:31:41 | |
You want to find something, but then you don't want to find anything. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:46 | |
"Baby saved from blaze. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:52 | |
"A six-week-old baby and her grandmother were taken to | 0:31:52 | 0:31:56 | |
"St George's Hospital, Tooting, after a fire destroyed their caravan | 0:31:56 | 0:32:00 | |
"on a site in Sandy Lane, Mitcham, on Saturday evening. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:03 | |
"It is believed the fire started when a gas heater set alight two cushions | 0:32:03 | 0:32:08 | |
"while Annie and 45-year-old Briddie were asleep." | 0:32:08 | 0:32:12 | |
It says grandma, so it is a grandma. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:14 | |
So she was in the fire as well, so why do I think it's something else? | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
Annie had always been told that her mother put her in a caravan alone | 0:32:19 | 0:32:24 | |
and set light to it deliberately. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:26 | |
Finding out her grandmother was in there with her changes everything. | 0:32:26 | 0:32:30 | |
Why would I be led to believe another way? | 0:32:31 | 0:32:34 | |
Very strange. Unless that's what people thought. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:40 | |
But why would they think that? Who would come to that conclusion? | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
It's definitely made me think more about any story that I've been given. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
I have to take things into my own hands. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
I've always known there's three parts of a story, there's, | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
you know, what he said, what she said, | 0:32:54 | 0:32:56 | |
and the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. | 0:32:56 | 0:32:59 | |
We soon found out that Annie's grandmother died in 2005, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:05 | |
taking her tale of the fire to the grave. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
I feel a bit sad, because I probably should have done it sooner. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
I'm a bit sad. I should have done it sooner. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
I should have done it. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
Training has always been my time. | 0:33:25 | 0:33:28 | |
It's just a little bit of time to be on your own, I think. | 0:33:28 | 0:33:30 | |
A bit of thinking time, you know. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
It's been a bit of a rollercoaster. It's been very up and down. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
And my emotions have been a bit, like, pulled back. | 0:33:41 | 0:33:44 | |
The facts is always what is needed to make yourself feel better. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:48 | |
'JK Backers. I don't know, maybe try John or James.' | 0:33:48 | 0:33:55 | |
With the caravan site long gone, | 0:33:55 | 0:33:57 | |
her birth mother and grandmother both dead, | 0:33:57 | 0:34:00 | |
tracking down the firefighter is our last hope | 0:34:00 | 0:34:03 | |
of reaching anyone who was there at the time. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:05 | |
Would you be able to find out if he did once work for you? It was in the '80s. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:09 | |
'He's not still working for us.' | 0:34:09 | 0:34:11 | |
Wanting to take a break from it all, | 0:34:23 | 0:34:25 | |
Annie's visiting her adoptive sister in Swansea. | 0:34:25 | 0:34:29 | |
My sister, Jo, is three years older than me. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:32 | |
If I've got a problem or something's upset me, I can always... | 0:34:32 | 0:34:36 | |
I know I can call her. And she always gives me great advice. | 0:34:36 | 0:34:39 | |
-Get your feet wet. -Oh, yeah! | 0:34:41 | 0:34:43 | |
I love wearing wellies. It sounds really stupid, but I feel more free. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:46 | |
Yeah. You will sleep well tonight. Sea air, in the lungs. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
I've been a bit anxious, so this has made me feel really relaxed. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
This whole thing feels like I've been sticking my hand in, | 0:34:55 | 0:34:59 | |
you know, like hot water... | 0:34:59 | 0:35:02 | |
You know what I mean? You don't know what you're going to get back. | 0:35:02 | 0:35:04 | |
You've never liked water, though, have you? | 0:35:04 | 0:35:07 | |
I remember when you were really young | 0:35:07 | 0:35:09 | |
and you had all those dressings, do you remember? | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
-Yeah. -On your head and stuff. | 0:35:12 | 0:35:14 | |
And they used to bathe them off you. | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
So no wonder you didn't like water. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
Not me, I love it. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:21 | |
-I'm like a fish. -I know you are. | 0:35:21 | 0:35:23 | |
You've always kind of defied the odds, though. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:28 | |
I mean, Mum's always said the nurses and doctors | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
didn't expect you to even survive | 0:35:31 | 0:35:33 | |
your first six months after the fire, did they? | 0:35:33 | 0:35:36 | |
They said you wouldn't be able to write and hold a pencil, | 0:35:36 | 0:35:39 | |
because your hands were so scarred and damaged. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:41 | |
But you've done all of that. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:44 | |
You know? You're stronger than you think. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
And it's good that you're doing this now, | 0:35:47 | 0:35:49 | |
because you're always going to have a natural curiosity about your heritage. | 0:35:49 | 0:35:52 | |
Yeah, the more and more I do it, the more and more I know I'm doing the right thing. | 0:35:52 | 0:35:55 | |
Like, just to understand a bit more. | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
-It's actually given me a little bit more confidence, which is really strange. -It's a big deal. | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
And I think you need to be in a certain stable... | 0:36:01 | 0:36:03 | |
You and Sam are engaged, you've got your house, | 0:36:03 | 0:36:08 | |
your life is secure, | 0:36:08 | 0:36:09 | |
and I think you shouldn't regret doing it now | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
and not doing it earlier. This is the right time, I think. | 0:36:12 | 0:36:16 | |
Yeah. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:17 | |
Push. Good. And again. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:29 | |
PHONE RINGS | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
Hi there, I was wondering if a man called JK Backers works for you. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:36 | |
'Why do you need to get hold of him?' | 0:36:36 | 0:36:37 | |
It's regarding me and my family, | 0:36:37 | 0:36:39 | |
I just wondered could he answer some questions that I'm not getting from the form. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
Thank you very much. | 0:36:43 | 0:36:45 | |
After weeks of searching for the elusive JK Backers, | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
we've finally got a lead. | 0:36:48 | 0:36:50 | |
"Hi, Annie. I was informed you are trying to get in touch with JK Backers. | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
"As luck would have it, I live opposite the daughter of one of his old colleagues. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:13 | |
"I have spoken with John today and he's happy for you to..." | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
Oh, wow. "..for you to contact him." | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
Amazing. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
I wasn't sure... I thought he would be dead. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
That's so rude. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:27 | |
I think I've got used to being, like... | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
Oh, that's really good. | 0:37:29 | 0:37:31 | |
I'm happy with that. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:33 | |
I needed some happiness. | 0:37:35 | 0:37:36 | |
I've got this opportunity to actually go and speak to someone | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
that was there, that knows about it, | 0:37:45 | 0:37:46 | |
that's willing, as well. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:48 | |
I'm hoping he'll remember a bit about the day. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
Obviously, I'm not pinning my hopes on it. | 0:37:50 | 0:37:53 | |
Look at me, I'm lying, I am. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:55 | |
I'm already like, "Please, remember!" | 0:37:55 | 0:37:56 | |
We are hoping that the man in charge of putting out the fire that burnt Annie | 0:38:14 | 0:38:18 | |
will finally give us a reliable first-hand account of what happened. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:22 | |
Ding-dong. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:25 | |
Hello. Hello, John? | 0:38:27 | 0:38:29 | |
Very nice to see you, come in. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:31 | |
Thank you. Lovely to meet you. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:33 | |
I brought you a few little bits. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:35 | |
I know it's very silly, but I didn't want to come empty-handed. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
-That's very nice of you. -It's just biscuits and some pastries in there. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
I don't know if you eat that kind of thing. | 0:38:41 | 0:38:43 | |
I treat myself most mornings. | 0:38:43 | 0:38:47 | |
-Good. Thank you so much for having me. -Oh, lovely, you can... | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
-Am I sitting here? -Yes, absolutely. -Brilliant, thank you. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
Right. Right, this is a Home Office form. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:58 | |
30 years later, you've come up with this report. | 0:38:58 | 0:39:02 | |
And sort of surprised me. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
Sorry. Sorry, I do really appreciate you talking. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
I don't want you to feel like I'm grilling. | 0:39:06 | 0:39:09 | |
It's fine, it's a delight, to be quite honest with you. | 0:39:09 | 0:39:11 | |
I'm just amazed that you actually survived, | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
because in this section here - | 0:39:15 | 0:39:17 | |
"Unrecorded, pending recovery or otherwise," | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
because it was expected, by all accounts, | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
that you would not survive more than 24 hours, possibly two days. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:27 | |
-Really? -Absolutely, yeah. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:28 | |
So these... | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
Did you write this? | 0:39:31 | 0:39:32 | |
Yes, this is my report. All this is my report, yes. | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
Your grandmother was taken to hospital with burned hands, | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
and you was taken elsewhere, | 0:39:38 | 0:39:39 | |
Roehampton burns unit, that's where you went. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:42 | |
Did you see the grandmother? | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
No. I did not see yourself or your grandmother. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
So they weren't on the scene when you were there? | 0:39:49 | 0:39:52 | |
As I arrived, the whole trailer van was alight, | 0:39:52 | 0:39:57 | |
and you had already, with your grandmother, vacated the van | 0:39:57 | 0:40:01 | |
and, obviously, been moved to hospital. | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
Because the fire was so severe and we couldn't establish initial cause, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:10 | |
what I did was I asked for the attendance | 0:40:10 | 0:40:14 | |
of the fire investigation team. | 0:40:14 | 0:40:17 | |
The results of the official investigation have been lost, | 0:40:17 | 0:40:20 | |
but John Backers believes that the newspaper report | 0:40:20 | 0:40:23 | |
about the cause of the fire is likely to be correct. | 0:40:23 | 0:40:27 | |
A cutting from the local newspaper, at the time of the incident... | 0:40:27 | 0:40:31 | |
"It is believed the fire started when a gas heater set light to cushions | 0:40:31 | 0:40:34 | |
"while Annie and 45-year-old Briddie were asleep." | 0:40:34 | 0:40:38 | |
That information is normally obtained from the local fire station. | 0:40:39 | 0:40:42 | |
There's no way of knowing who took Annie to hospital, | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
but John's got an idea about who saved her life. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
What I suspect happened, because your grandmother's hands were burnt, | 0:40:50 | 0:40:54 | |
she obviously, in my view, obviously lifted you, | 0:40:54 | 0:40:58 | |
and carried you out from the van. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
I always think the simplest answer is usually true, | 0:41:04 | 0:41:07 | |
but sometimes, I guess, it's best to ask the questions. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
I just think there it makes sense. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:11 | |
It's her hands, I think she got me out of there. | 0:41:11 | 0:41:14 | |
Unfortunately, it would appear that your grandmother is no longer alive. | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
So, really, assuming she would tell you the truth, | 0:41:17 | 0:41:21 | |
actually, we'd be able to give you that information you're desperately sort of looking for. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:26 | |
Which is a shame, from your perspective. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
I wish I could actually say more than that. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
No, I'm sitting here, that's more than enough. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
I'm so glad that I get to speak to you, as well. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:37 | |
I keep crying, I'm so sorry. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:39 | |
Oh... | 0:41:39 | 0:41:40 | |
This is... This is... | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
Brings back nasty memories. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:47 | |
Even I get upset about certain issues and... | 0:41:49 | 0:41:54 | |
-Thank you so much. -It's not an issue, you know, | 0:41:54 | 0:41:58 | |
always willing to help if I possibly can. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:00 | |
That's what we're here for, isn't it, really? | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
A teapot. | 0:42:03 | 0:42:04 | |
I'm going to get a teapot for the house. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:07 | |
I've done a count one day, I think it's approximately 20 cups of tea | 0:42:07 | 0:42:11 | |
-I drink a day. -Nice. I love a cup of tea. | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
It was so good, Sam, he was so nice. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:16 | |
Like, he's a good guy, you know. | 0:42:16 | 0:42:19 | |
A good guy. | 0:42:19 | 0:42:20 | |
He's kind of inkled an invitation to the wedding. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
So, yeah. There we go, then. Him and his wife are coming. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:33 | |
It's important for me to speak to John, knowing the man that wrote it, | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
it makes me feel I can fully believe the report, | 0:42:38 | 0:42:41 | |
and that can back up thinking it was more of an accident. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
It's completely changed everything I thought, growing up. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:50 | |
You know, just a normal, sane person would do what was told, but then, | 0:42:50 | 0:42:56 | |
the hard bit was more, why was that implied? | 0:42:56 | 0:42:58 | |
Annie is still frustrated by how the story she grew up with came about. | 0:43:12 | 0:43:17 | |
She wants to get Joe Jones's take on why such a damning accusation | 0:43:17 | 0:43:21 | |
would have been spread. | 0:43:21 | 0:43:22 | |
-Hello, Annie. How are you? -I'm good, how are you? | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
People will exaggerate something if they don't know anything about it. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:30 | |
And people hear half a story, then they pass half a story on, | 0:43:30 | 0:43:35 | |
and then someone adds something else to that story. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:37 | |
-Chinese whispers. -And it becomes very dramatic. | 0:43:37 | 0:43:40 | |
You know, we were good storytellers. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
Our parents, our grandparents were good storytellers. | 0:43:43 | 0:43:45 | |
They used to keep us kids amused for hours on end. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:48 | |
And as you get older, | 0:43:48 | 0:43:50 | |
you realise that that wasn't quite what they said. | 0:43:50 | 0:43:53 | |
There was a little bit of truth in there. It wasn't quite like that. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:57 | |
We'll never know the absolute truth of what happened that night, | 0:43:58 | 0:44:02 | |
but we finally unearthed enough for Annie to put the story to rest. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:06 | |
See you soon. | 0:44:06 | 0:44:08 | |
The incident in your life, | 0:44:08 | 0:44:09 | |
either you let that destroy you, yeah? | 0:44:09 | 0:44:14 | |
Or you use it, because you seem confident enough. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:19 | |
-I want you to move on. -Yeah. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:23 | |
I think the stories we grow up with shape who we are, our new beliefs, | 0:44:26 | 0:44:32 | |
which we take on, and build our character, | 0:44:32 | 0:44:34 | |
then it builds our own identity. | 0:44:34 | 0:44:36 | |
Because I didn't have any background or people that were linked to me, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:39 | |
I was able to build my own ideas of myself | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
and build beliefs around myself. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:44 | |
Now, after everything that's happened, | 0:44:44 | 0:44:46 | |
I'm certain that that was the right way for me to go. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:48 | |
I don't need, necessarily, to be part of any pack, this group, | 0:44:48 | 0:44:51 | |
or that group, or this group. | 0:44:51 | 0:44:53 | |
I am my character. | 0:44:53 | 0:44:55 | |
Annie now has a much deeper understanding | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
of why her birth mum struggled to cope with her arrival. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
Despite the absence of hard facts about the cause of the fire, | 0:45:06 | 0:45:10 | |
what we have found out has allowed Annie to make up her own mind. | 0:45:10 | 0:45:13 | |
In light of everything that happened, the bet's in my birth mum's favour now. | 0:45:14 | 0:45:18 | |
I'm really glad now that I've done this. | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
Never judge a book by its cover. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:23 | |
Never just presume. Give everyone a chance. | 0:45:23 | 0:45:26 | |
Everyone. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:28 | |
MUSIC: Grow by Frances | 0:45:29 | 0:45:32 | |
# Oh, so you know it all | 0:45:41 | 0:45:46 | |
# Then it's gone | 0:45:46 | 0:45:49 | |
# Grow, grow | 0:45:49 | 0:45:52 | |
# You know I'm here holding on | 0:45:52 | 0:45:55 | |
# Tying up your loose ends | 0:45:56 | 0:45:59 | |
# And your drifting esteem | 0:45:59 | 0:46:04 | |
# Grow, grow | 0:46:04 | 0:46:07 | |
# If you never try, you'll never know... # | 0:46:07 | 0:46:09 |