Lauren Bacall Talking Pictures

The talent, the looks, the voice.

For movie-goers in the 1940s, Lauren Bacall had it all.

And if that wasn't enough, she also had Humphrey Bogart.

Hollywood's ultimate couple.

They met on the set of the classic 1944 film To Have and Have Not.

Aged just 19, Bacall had won the part

after being spotted on the front of Harper's Bazaar magazine

by the wife of the film's director, Howard Hawks.

Her performance caused a sensation,

making her an international star overnight.

Even decades later, the chemistry between her and Bogart

would fascinate an interviewer like Michael Parkinson.

The core of the story is of a young,

New York Jewish girl who dreamed of being a star,

and became one at the age of 18 when Howard Hawks cast her alongside

Humphrey Bogart in a film called To Have And Have Not.

And he created something which became known as The Look,

unwittingly starting one of Hollywood's great love stories

and manufacturing a moment of cinema that's as fresh today

as when it happened, 35 years ago.

Anybody got a match?

MATCH STRIKES

Thanks.

APPLAUSE

I wish you hadn't mentioned how many years ago it was, Michael.

-It was 35 years ago.

-But I was only two 35 years ago!

LAUGHTER

How did that happen?

Was that contrived, The Look, or was it accidental?

Well, it was a result of my nerves

which, if you look very closely, you might see again.

That I used to shake so much that my head used to shake

and, you know, in a film, when a director says "action"

there's dead silence on a set,

so all eyes are on you, and everything depends upon you.

And I was such a nervous wreck that I discovered, finally,

that one way to hold my head still was to hold it down,

and then the back of my neck got so stiff that nothing would move...

..and look up.

And that became The Look.

But it was that, combined with Howard Hawks's terrific eye,

and knowing that if the camera was in a certain position

and there were shadows in the right place -

which I could do with right now, as a matter of fact...

LAUGHTER

It... I mean, it was a combination of what he saw and my panic.

But how much of what came over, that sultry, sexy,

sort of worldly look, was the real you at that time?

-None of it.

-No, cos you were, in fact, 18, weren't you?

I mean, what can you be, you know, when you're 18 years old

and you know nothing and you have very limited acting experience,

almost none, and very little life experience?

-I mean, how sophisticated can you be, for heaven's sakes?

-Yeah.

But if you have a deep voice, and Howard Hawks writes your dialogue

and directs you and lights you correctly and...

I mean, you can be anything.

What was charming about your book, actually, about your early years,

was this obsession you had about becoming a film star.

You were really starstruck from an early age.

But I didn't really want to be a film star.

-I wanted to be on the stage.

-On the stage.

But I wanted my name in lights, I wanted...

That dream, I don't know where I got it from because,

as you know from the book, no-one in my family even came close

to being in the theatre, or anything in the entertainment world.

And I was just... I don't know. I just had to do it,

and I would have done anything, almost anything,

and I did almost anything...

LAUGHTER

..to be recognised.

You say, of course, that your first ambition was to go on the stage.

But, in fact, your great heroine at the time

was a film star, wasn't she?

Well, of course, because, I mean, films were accessible to me.

I mean, when I was a kid,

it was about 20 cents to get into a movie house.

I mean, to go to the theatre was just so expensive.

I could never possibly have afforded that.

Did you think that you had the proper physical attributes

at the time, when you were 16, 17, to become a film star?

Oh, Michael, you know I didn't! I was flat-chested and...

large of foot!

And...very gawky.

No, I didn't. And I thought...

I mean, I always was shy about smiling,

because my teeth were crooked and...

God, I don't know, I was a mess!

I don't know how any of this ever happened.

LAUGHTER

And, of course, I mean, you had the looks.

You can't have been as bad-looking as all that

because you became a very famous model in America,

-which is how you got into...

-Yes, but that was luck and that was...

I mean, also, you know, if you're photographed by the right person

-at the right time, the right way, you look OK.

-Yeah, yeah.

I don't say I was ugly, but I was sure no raving beauty, I'll tell you.

Yeah. You...

In the book, the most fascinating chapters,

and best written, in my view, are the ones which you recount your...

-Careful!

-..relationship - no - with Bogie.

It is the centrepiece of the book.

And, obviously, the man had a profound and lasting effect

-on your life.

-Absolutely.

-And I'm delighted that...

I remember the last time that you came on my show,

you said that being a widow is not a profession.

You didn't like talking about that part of your life.

But you've written about it beautifully well, actually.

And what comes across, actually, about the man

is that he was a rare man.

I mean, in that town, he was a very uncompromising character.

-That must be very, very difficult to have been that...

-Yes.

-..to maintain that stance.

-Right.

To be honest, in a town that is full of "hello, darling" and...

..icing on the cake, you know, saying that everything is wonderful

and all the films that are wonderful,

it was very difficult to tell the truth.

Most people in Hollywood really did not want to hear the truth

-if it was negative.

-Yes.

-I mean, only positive.

And Bogie, of course, didn't understand that.

-He was incapable of telling a lie, he really was.

-Yes.

How difficult did he find it, though, to live with

the screen image that he had of being the tough man, the hard man?

Well, I mean, that is something that...

I mean, there's nothing you can do to erase an image.

Once you have made a hit in a role, in a certain kind of role,

in films, there is no way to lose that identity.

I mean, people just see you that way.

And, of course, in New York,

you go to a nightclub, or even a restaurant for dinner,

and some drunk would walk over and say,

"Oh, so you think you're tough, are you?"

And he would just turn around, and if he'd had a couple of drinks,

he'd say, "Yeah!"

I mean, he'd start playing the part

which had nothing to do with him whatever.

LAUGHTER

Just leading him up to the brink, you know.

He was terrific at brinksmanship,

I mean, until the moment the guy was ready to punch him,

because then Bogie'd start laughing because he knew that,

if it came to fisticuffs, that was out of the question!

He couldn't fight his way out of a paper bag.

LAUGHTER

How difficult did you find it, also, for yourself?

Because you were created in an image, weren't you,

from your very first film?

How difficult was it for you to get rid of it, live up to?

Well, I've had that problem all my life,

I mean, all my professional life,

that people have seen me in a certain way -

I think I make that very clear in the book,

even including today -

that I am looked upon as a woman

who's in total control and command of every situation,

that I don't need anyone and that I've got all the answers,

it's all very sharp,

just like all those parts I played.

Well, as we all know, no-one's that sure of themselves, I don't think.

And if they are, I don't want to meet them.

LAUGHTER

I mean, it's... You know, it's...

It's very tough to just walk into any room, privately,

and have someone decide what you're all about.

Are you nervous because you know what to expect,

their reaction to you when you get in there,

or are you nervous because you don't know what the reaction will be?

-You mean, walking into a room?

-Yes, what I'm saying is that...

Well, I'm nerv... I don't know, I'm just nervous. I don't know.

-Yeah, yeah.

-I mean, I don't analyse it. It's just that it's...

I suppose, in our society, it's becoming less difficult all the time.

But it is not easy to walk into a room by yourself.

And it is twice as difficult if you walk into a room

and people have preconceived notions of what you are and so, I mean,

I'm immediately on the defensive, so I have to live up to that.

What's interesting, actually, in the book also

is the conflict that's run right through your life,

about whether or not you marry and devote yourself to a man,

or whether you go on with a career.

And it seemed to me that you always took the option

for companionship, for the man, rather than your...

-Yes, but that's over.

-That's over?

-I'm not doing that any more, Michael.

-You're not?

-No.

I don't believe... You can never say never,

because there's no such thing as "I'll never do anything again".

Who knows? I'll turn around tomorrow

and some fascinating creature will drop from heaven and that'll be it!

But I don't expect that to happen. I just...

I will feel better, I think,

just concentrating on work, friends, whatever happens.

I'm very open to everything, but I love to work,

and I really think work is the most important thing in life.

-I think using oneself is more important than anything.

-Yes.

Being aware and awake and knowing what's going on.

At the end of the book, you say something very interesting,

Toward the end you say that, now you've written all about yourself,

that you found out that you

"Don't like everything I know about myself."

-No.

-You don't specify, though, you see.

And I wondered what it was that you...

Well, I have faced...

When you start reviewing your life, you have to face your shortcomings.

And you can't just shove them under the rug any more.

I don't like...

I don't like moments of envy that I have, you know, as far as...

-Professionally?

-Professionally, yes.

I don't like...

I don't admire at all in myself

my not having the courage to stand up to Hawks

every time he made a crack about the Jews.

I don't feel good about that.

And I would... And I...

It took me many years before I could deal with that.

Many years. It was very, very difficult.

-Was there much anti-Semitism in...

-No. It wasn't that.

It was just that each time every one thing would happen,

I mean, it became such a...

They made such a to-do about it because of the fact that,

in their eyes, I didn't look Jewish, and so they were so stunned.

"I can't believe it! Can you believe that's true? Look at that girl!

"She doesn't look..."

And so I always felt that I was singled out and set apart

and that I had additional obstacles to overcome.

It became a weight around my neck and I hated the fact that I felt that.

Yes.

You felt you had to go to people beforehand because you didn't

look Jewish and say, "By the way, I'm Jewish, just in case..."

-Well, I did to Bogie.

-You did?

-But I didn't professionally.

And that is what I don't like about myself,

the fact that I did not say,

"Now, just a minute, you may as well know it now."

I mean, I wasn't that terrific,

I was not that gutsy, and I wasn't that honest about it.

I was terrified that maybe I would lose my job,

and I didn't have the courage to deal with it.

What about now? Do you still feel, you know,

uneasy when somebody makes an anti-Semitic remark in your company?

-I do.

-You do?

-Of course I do.

-Do you now, though?

-Well, now, I mean, now...

It's out, folks. I mean, forget it. Now...

I mean, I don't know.

But it's so much pleasanter to...

I mean, to just not have to...

Why should I have to worry about my religion? I mean, that's so...

That's nothing to do with what anybody is.

I mean, it's what you...

I mean, you're born the way you're born, and you live the way you live.

And why should I be judged for something that...

-when people don't know me?

-The other interesting thing,

that conclusion you come to, is to do with your age,

and to do with, particularly, the...

-Oh, you always do this to me, Michael.

-No, I don't!

LAUGHTER

You did it last time. Don't you remember when I dropped the lighter,

you said something about my...

No, that wasn't me. That was another interviewer.

LAUGHTER

Oh, no it wasn't, Michael. I never forget!

OK. Press on.

You made the remark, and it's absolutely true,

that in American society, particularly,

that a woman of 26 is reckoned to be,

professionally, and every other way,

-on the downward slope.

-On the skids. Yes!

-And that can't give you any great comfort.

-No.

LAUGHTER

That also is the understatement of the century, yes.

LAUGHTER

No, it doesn't give me any great comfort,

-but I will fight to the death my right to work!

-Absolutely.

-No, but it's...

-But not to be judged.

I hate the fact that there's a number next to everybody's name,

that that puts you in a certain category.

I mean, there are people of 40 that are ancient!

I mean, I know a man, one of the men that I was involved with

in my book was 15 years my junior,

who's too old for me, I'll tell you that!

But how much are you swimming against the tide in that field?

Well, I think that... I think that...

Categorising has always existed, and I think it is...

-I think it also does exist here, to a degree.

-Oh, surely. Absolutely.

You know, there's a number next to your name here, as well.

Is it The Times where they were always saying,

"Today's your birthday and you're..."

Wonderful to announce that to the world(!)

-Who needs that?

-Yes, yes.

But I think to be judged that you are a certain way

because you are 30 or 40 or 50 or 60

is totally unfair.

And why should we be so limited?

Why should it...

Why should age confine us and make us unable

to spread our wings, I mean, if you're an actor,

to play different kinds of parts, or whatever?

It's particularly...

Why do you have to retire because somebody says that you...

cos you've reached 62 and you must retire?

But women, particularly, are vulnerable

to this kind of thinking, aren't they?

-Yes, but I think it's affected men, as well.

-Yes.

I think men that have been asked,

or feel that they must retire from a job that they've held

for 20 years because they've reached an age, a certain age,

and don't want to retire and are not ready to retire,

mentally or physically or anyway...

I mean, certainly, it affects them badly.

Retirement was never an option for Bacall.

But she's always been frank about the fickle nature of fame

and the pressure it brings, as she explains here,

in an interview with Barry Norman.

It's terrible to...

..be 18 or 19 years old and have that kind of success

when you are not prepared for it,

when you are not equipped to deal with it,

as I had had very little experience, acting experience.

I mean, I wanted to be an actress and I studied for it,

but I still had not done it enough.

I mean, how much can you do by that age, you know? Not hell of a lot.

So...

And that kind of insanity that goes on,

when you make that kind of an instant success,

which is partially real, but also partially created

by studio people, then, you know...

Warner Bros had, um...

as head of publicity, a man called Charlie Einfeld,

who was one of the great publicity geniuses of all time.

And he knew how to really make somebody, everyone, talk about you.

And, I mean, I was in every magazine, on every cover, on everything.

Too much.

I remember arriving at Grand Central Station in New York

from California,

just after To Have and Have Not had been released,

and Grand Central Station was packed with fans and police.

Thousands and thousands of people.

Now, I don't know how they got there,

somebody from Warner Bros must have spread the word.

I've no idea how it happened.

But, I mean, when that happens to a 19-year-old girl, it's very scary.

You just don't understand it.

And were you expected to react in the slightly cynical,

slightly tough, slightly wisecracking way

that you appear in the film?

I have no idea.

By the time you made The Big Sleep,

you and Humphrey Bogart were married.

By the time it was released we were.

Now, what influence did he have on your career

and, indeed, on teaching you to act?

Did he try to teach you, or did he encourage you to go your own way?

He never tried to... I mean, he never gave me acting lessons.

He never interfered in my career at all.

He never tried to get me a part, he never...

He never threw his weight around at all on my behalf.

He felt that should be a separate thing.

Umm...

He occasionally...

I remember once, in The Big Sleep -

it was very funny -

there was a scene where

'the doorbell rang, and there was a shot of me

'coming out of a room to go and answer the door, you see.

'So we had a rehearsal in the scene for the camera.

'And Howard Hawks yelled, you know, called, "Action!"

'And I walked out of this door to, presumably, my bedroom,

'to answer the front door.'

'And before we did the take, Bogie took me to one side and said,

'"You walked out of that room like a model!"

'He said, "Always remember that you've come from somewhere."'

Are you sure that she's going to be...

Oh yeah, she'll be all right in the morning.

Did you do this?

That? Oh yes, that's a little special service

I always provide all my clients.

Including being intimate?

'And that was, I suppose,

'that was one of the things that made me aware that one must always think

'before the take that you don't wait to think'

once the cameras start to roll.

You have to start to think before that, so that you know

that something has preceded it, so that you're not a puppet, really.

When you look back now on those...

your early part of your life in Hollywood,

does it seem real or does it seem like something

that happened to somebody else whom you know?

It seems very much as though it happened to somebody else.

I mean, I know it happened to me.

But, as I think of me then, it doesn't seem like me.

I mean, I don't relate to it.

I don't think about that life, except occasionally, when I think,

"Did I really live like that?"

I mean, "Was that really me living in that house?

I mean, I remember experiencing all of it,

and I remember being in all of the places that I was

and with the people that I was,

but it's so far from the way I've lived for the last 15 years.

I get the impression that, after Bogart's death,

your career never quite reached the same heights again.

Now, is that true, and if so, is it coincidental,

or was it simply because of the way the film industry was going?

I think it's a very gracious way of putting it, on your part, actually.

It never reached the heights again and it never will and that's it!

And nobody cared, is what it really amounted to, except me.

Umm...

No, I think...

You see, I was never...

I don't think I was considered by a lot of people in films as an actress.

I was thought of as Bogie's wife by a lot of people.

"Oh, that terrific girl! Oh, his wife, blah, blah, blah."

You know, and that was it.

No-one ever thought that I cared that much about work, I don't think.

I mean, you don't go around saying, "I want to work, I care about it..."

RINGING

Oh, hello!

Umm...

It just...

They were still making films, and they were making good films,

but they didn't want me in them.

And, you know, I mean, with something...

I do find in life that, when something devastating happens,

it happens everywhere.

I mean, it's...

They really lay it on you when they want to, the world,

whoever it is that's planning it.

It's when your personal life is in the ash can,

your career is, everything is.

Well, I remember you said,

I think about the time when you were going to appear in Applause,

you said you'd had 13 years of bad luck, and I mean really bad luck.

Well, my private life has certainly been a symphony of discord...

..since Bogie's death, I would say. I mean, I don't think I've had...

I don't know why. I mean, maybe I just attract disaster, I don't know.

I hope not. But it seems to me that I have been unlucky.

I think I have been. But I just... That's the way the world is.

I mean, that's the way my world is. There's nothing I can do about it.

But you also said once that you thought

you'd lived your life backwards.

That, at 20, you had all the things that most girls dream about,

like a husband, wealth...

-"Like a husband," yes!

-..wealth, a fascinating life,

and that, now it's all gone, it won't come back again.

Well, that's a very pessimistic note.

I don't think it's pessimistic. I think it's true, actually.

I mean, I think it's just those are the facts.

I'm not particularly upset about it.

But I say that, usually, I mean, you work,

you start off, when you're young, you don't give a damn.

It's not that important what things you have, is it, you know?

Comforts and that kind of security

you don't think of in terms of...

You know, when you're 19 years old, it doesn't matter.

But when you're older, you do think,

"Gee, it'd be nice to have a little cushion,

"not to have to worry about..."

And, I mean, actually, I've had to work harder...

..from Bogie's death on, since,

and for ever, I would say, than I did before.

Just, I mean, for not only survival, but just, I mean, to live.

In the 1980s, Bacall was still gracing the talk shows,

sharing stories about her fascinating past

and her experience at the Warner Bros studios.

I mean, I think that... I mean, Jack Warner's attitude was

that actors were employees,

and we did not consider that we were employees,

and that he felt we should do as we were told.

Unfortunately, he didn't have a lot of taste in choosing parts in films,

so, if you wanted to do something better, you were in trouble.

What happened is that you got into arguments

and you ended up on suspension and didn't work for a while and...

But even in spite of all of that,

films then were wonderful, mostly terrific.

And Warner Bros actually produced some of the best films ever made

that will live for ever, long after some of today's films will.

You don't think, then, that there was something to be said

for this treatment of actors as if they were pieces of merchandise?

Oh, no. No, no, no. I don't think there's ever

anything to be said for that, no.

No, I don't think there was, but I think that there were

a lot of tremendously talented people making films then.

I mean, the focus was totally in California.

-It wasn't diffused by television, you see.

-Is there...

Do you detect a great difference between then and now

and the making of films?

Well, there's a tremendous difference,

number one in cost, number one in the number of films,

number one in the concentration of talent in one place

that doesn't exist any more. Everyone is everywhere.

I mean, you go where the work is. You seldom work where you live now.

There still are some very talented people.

I mean, there are some young, talented people in films,

but I don't think as many.

And they don't build stars to last,

and I think television has done that.

-No offence!

-No, quite, quite!

We're prepared to take the... We're prepared to take the sticks.

Because, in fact, it's very difficult to become a film star now

because people don't actually go out to movies,

and you see people who are established feature players,

but they're not...

They don't become stars like they used to in the 40s and 50s.

Well, they don't last, you see.

Stars, to me, are people who last.

Just to have your name over the title for five minutes

is not a star, in my book, anyway. But I'm a...

You were 19 when you were a star.

-I was a wee girl, yeah.

-Was it hard to handle?

Well, it would have been harder to handle had I not had Bogie, I'm sure.

And also, I had a very solid upbringing, so that I...

I was...

My feet were quite firmly planted on the ground.

But it's pretty hard to keep your head

-when people say that you are the sun, the moon AND the stars...

-Yeah.

..all rolled into one.

Are you glad it happened to you then,

rather than it would happen to you now?

Well, I'm glad it happened at all!

LAUGHTER

I mean, you know, that...

I think I'm lucky that it happened at all.

Of course, as I was told once by a man called Moss Hart,

who was a playwright, a fine playwright and director,

after To Have and Have Not opened, he said, "You understand, of course,

"that you have nowhere to go but down."

And he was absolutely right.

-I don't think that's true.

-No, but it is true,

because if you are...

If you are praised beyond your capabilities,

which new people very often are,

there's no way you can live up to that praise.

It's out of all proportion to anyone's ability, to any reality.

Your original ambition was to work on the stage

and, I think, probably - I may be wrong -

you prefer it to working in the movies, working on stage?

-No, I just prefer working to not working.

-Well, yes!

-If you had a choice?

-I don't...

Well, if I had a choice, I'd do both, I'd do everything,

because I think one has to, and I think one should.

And each medium has something different to offer.

But the theatre, the thing that is the best thing about the theatre,

is that it is happening then.

It is now, it is live and it is more in an actor's control

than film is, which is not at all in an actor's control.

Of course, the best thing about film is that you have a better life,

because it's not that relentless, eight shows a week

and usually 52 weeks a year. I mean, you know, it's much...

-You need stamina for the stage.

-Yes, you do!

You started out - well, your book says -

by collaring producers, saying, "Use me, use me!

"I'd be good in this kind of thing." Would you still do that?

I had a lot of nerve.

Well, I've tried but I'm so afraid of rejection, I can't!

LAUGHTER

As a young girl, you weren't afraid of the rejection,

-it wouldn't have mattered?

-I don't think you think of it, you know?

I thought... Well, I had a hell of a lot of nerve, but I thought,

"I don't care. I'm just going to press on and do it,

"and what can they do? They can only say no."

I suppose I would if I wanted to do something badly enough now, but I...

I don't know. You get a little... One becomes very intimidated.

-Really?

-It's not easy.

One can't envisage you being intimidated.

-Oh, you can't?

-No.

Well, then you don't know human nature very well.

No, I'm well-known for my lack of knowledge of human nature.

I'm sorry about that, but no, it's...

I mean, to think that what one is, professionally, is what one is

is not, you know... That is not what we are, and to be...

I mean, to present whatever persona I presented over the years

because of parts that I've played has nothing to do with the way I am.

I mean, finally, you do begin to become that a little bit, you know.

-You are affected a little bit by it.

-I'm interested...

There's not a frail, weak, cowering woman, then, behind this facade?

-No, but there's a very vulnerable, sensitive one.

-Yeah.

Definitely.

Do you get offered many roles now? And what kind of roles do you...?

Now, I'm not sure I'm crazy about that question.

LAUGHTER

-What kind of roles do you have in mind?

-No, no, no! They don't...

They don't allow me to offer anybody roles, even here in the BBC.

But do you get offered interesting parts?

Do you get offered many parts that you're interested in doing now?

There are not many wonderful parts written for women.

There are not many terrible parts written for women.

There are not many parts written for women of any age.

It is very difficult to find anything that is worth doing.

We keep hoping it will change, and maybe it will.

I hope so. It's hard. It's very hard.

I mean, that's another reason that I stay on the stage,

because I find that there is better stuff to do on stage

than there is in film.

Fortunately, notable roles kept coming,

like the film Misery,

and Barbara Streisand's The Mirror Has Two Faces,

for which Bacall won a Best Actress Golden Globe award

and an Oscar nomination.

Then, in 2000, she appeared on the show Scene by Scene,

joining Mark Cousins to look back and critique her career so far.

I've got here the end of To Have and Have Not,

-where you do this wiggle...

-Oh, you like that wiggle!

..which is one of the sexiest things in the movies.

SHE LAUGHS

It's so funny!

-And Walter Brennan does the wee jig at the end, remember?

-Yes.

There he goes!

-'It doesn't look planned or choreographed.'

-'It wasn't.'

'Did Howard Hawks tell you to do it?'

'No, I did it spontaneously when we were rehearsing, and Howard liked it.

'And they wanted me to do it.'

Then I became a little self-conscious doing it!

But because, you know, I studied dancing for 13 years,

I wanted to be a dancer. So...

And I... Not that I considered that really dancing,

but any time I hear music, wiggling comes to mind!

Well, you wiggle like a dream, I can tell you that!

I've got a bit of bad news for you.

And the bad news is that I've got a clip here of Confidential.

Oh!

Oh, I'm killing you!

I hate my own father for 1,000 reasons.

Then I fall for a stupid, idealistic fool

who's trying to get himself killed.

And you will be, sooner or later.

It's written all over you.

SHE LAUGHS

So pathetic!

Look at him!

We shall see each other again before I leave, and celebrate.

I do like you, very much.

Stop lying!

Ooh!

It's not as bad as you think, that picture.

I've no idea what that scene is about!

He was such a sweet man, such a lovely man.

And the newspaper said "the bubble has burst on Bacall."

The reviews were bad. Did it seriously damage your career?

Oh!

I had to climb my way back up, I tell you. And you never get back.

You never get back to that moment, you see.

If I had had the care from Hawks that I might have had if he hadn't

been such a macho man who was furious that I went off with Bogie...

..that movie never would have happened.

The fact is that it...

it hurt me a lot. I mean, all the critics who praised me,

who said I was a combination of Garbo and Hepburn and Dietrich and...

Mae West, they mentioned.

..Mae West, yes, and that I was this most exciting, brilliant,

wonderful, funny...

Every compliment in the book,

to, "We were wrong, send her back where she came from! Disaster!"

Well, I mean, it was very...

-It was very hurtful.

-Yeah.

But I was married to Bogie then,

and my reaction was really healthy.

I was not happy about it,

but I didn't burst into tears about it, although it was hurtful.

Jumping ahead, you made the film The Fan in 1980.

I loved The Fan.

And you play a stage actress who's stalked by this young man

-who's got pictures of the very young Lauren Bacall on his wall.

-Yes.

-You could say that it was quite a risky thing for you to do.

-I know.

It's very scary, all of that, because, you know,

I have gotten a lot of... in the past.

-And still I'm getting some nutty...

-Nuts.

-..mail, yeah.

There were nuts everywhere.

-And it is frightening but it does exist and it can exist.

-Yeah.

Coming up to date, you made The Mirror Has Two Faces

with director Barbara Streisand,

and you got an Oscar nomination, which is...

That's as far as I'll go with that one!

..which is ironic, in a way, because it wasn't a great picture, was it?

No.

But it was a very good part.

Streisand is a really good director, I have to tell you.

She knows what the last shots were,

she knows what shots are coming up, she knows what she needs.

Maybe she'll look back and turn into a pillar of salt.

'She doesn't play the Hollywood game at all, she plays her own game,

'and she's got every right to do that, in my book.'

Alex looks nervous.

'I guess they don't like her. I don't know what it is.

'The movie was not a popular movie.'

It's time that we had another great Lauren Bacall film, isn't it?

Oh, but there hasn't been one of those, ever, in my book,

a movie that I was it in.

They don't write parts, you know, they don't write parts for...

They don't write parts for women in general that are terrific,

and they don't...

So unimaginative. They used to write...

It's not Pedro Almodovar, All About My Mother.

-Please, God, if something like that would only come along!

-But...

I just hope somebody will one day.

Does Almodovar know that you would...?

Yes, I've told him. I love Pedro. I said, "Pedro!

"I've got to be in your first English-speaking movie!"

I said, "I will carry a tray. I don't care what I do!"

No, he's forgotten me already, he's made such a hit with this movie now.

That's your next great movie. I can't wait to see it.

And what would you do if all your films disappeared,

if they were all wiped, if they...

You know, if nobody could see Big Sleep again,

if nobody could see Designing Woman again?

That's life.

What could I do?

I tell you, I don't think of what happens after I'm gone.

If things last, they last. You never know whether they last not.

And I don't... I don't do things for posterity, anyway.

In 2009, Bacall received an honorary Academy Award

in recognition of her central place

in the golden age of motion pictures.

She may not have sought out posterity,

but she achieved it, anyway.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd