Episode 2 Nick and Margaret: We All Pay Your Benefits

-Try living on benefits!

-Going to betting shops, tattoo parlours -

why should they be allowed to spend their money on that?

We ain't the scroungers, we just want to do an honest day's work.

As the country's spending on benefits reaches record levels,

public opinion has never been more divided

over Britain's 2.5 million unemployed.

I struggle real bad.

They get it for nothing

and they're not giving anything back for the money that they take.

So, in this experiment,

we've brought both sides of the debate together.

Tax payers and claimants.

Last time, we asked the tax payers to decide how much benefit is enough.

Of course, Kelly's going to be comfortable in the benefit system,

because she's got all this money coming in.

It's scraping the bottom of the barrel.

If this wasn't available, what would I feed my kids?

£3,640.

-Do you think that's enough?

-Yes.

Now the claimants will get their say on whether getting a job

is worth it, as they work alongside our tax payers.

It's like being back at school again.

Will the hard graft be an inspiration?

She does four, five days straight. That's too much, man.

Cor, that stuff stinks.

Or will they feel the sacrifice is just too much?

You're saying that work comes before your family and your kids

-and it's just like...

-Nothing comes before my kids.

If things go wrong, she won't be here tomorrow. No way.

He's let me down, he's let the clients down, he's let himself down.

I didn't realise that wages were so low in this country.

But, Luther, that's the reality of working lives.

I'm Nick Hewer.

'And I'm Margaret Mountford.

'We're back in Ipswich where just under 10% of the population

'are unemployed, the same as the national average.'

We've paired four unemployed people with four workers.

This time, the claimants will get a taste of the daily grind,

trying out the jobs that our tax payers do, day in, day out.

This is going to be a challenge for the claimants, isn't it?

-Some of them haven't worked for years.

-But are they willing to work?

I truly believe that some of them

wonder whether work is truly worth it.

I wonder what they'll think when they see how the tax payers are living,

the hours they have to work and the family time they give up.

It's true.

Between them, our four claimants have been unemployed

for nearly 30 years.

So, before they start,

we're going to see how prepared they are to enter the world of work.

I don't know whether somebody coming in for an interview would be

wearing a baseball cap.

-How you doing?

-Looking like a million dollars. Come and sit down.

-Very smart.

-That's the way to dress for an interview, I think.

When you left school, what did you really want to do?

If I'm really honest, I hadn't got a clue.

-What qualifications did you take with you?

-None.

-You're going into work...

-Yeah.

-..over the next few days.

-How does that make you feel?

-Very nervous.

Going back to work is going to be hard

and I'm determined to prove I can do it.

What are you most nervous about?

I don't want to fail, you know? I want to do good in whatever I do.

But it's a while since somebody's told you what to do, isn't it?

Yes, well, if you don't include the wife.

Unlike the others, Luther doesn't have to look for work

as he's been signed off due to ill health.

I've obviously got some nerves,

more nervous that my health will let me down than my head, you know?

So you think you'll be willing, mentally, you're geared up for it?

-Yeah, yeah, definitely.

-But the old body might not be?

-Yeah.

Now that we've met them all, I do worry that some of them

will really struggle clambering back into that world of work.

Some strike you as being keener to work than others do, don't they?

There's pressure on your head, isn't it, if you've been out of work?

Everybody thinks you're a scrounger or the rest of it.

You've lost touch with how to react with people,

how to respond to authority,

how to respond to the boss who says, "I'd like you to do that by 5:30."

That hasn't happened to these people for years.

The thought of it must make some of them, you know, run for cover again.

Ipswich, 6am.

For the first time in years, the claimants are returning to work.

Not used to waking up this early. Working life, I guess.

Ah, baby.

Doing a full-time job for eight hours is going to be

a learning curve.

Bit of the unknown, sort of thing.

Whether I'll last the distance, that sort of thing.

I've had four cups of coffee this morning.

Anxious, nervous, worried I can't do it.

I'll give it 100% and, if I can't do it, I know I've tried.

Liam doesn't come across as, "I'm enthusiastic, I want to do this."

I think he probably is. He's not able to project that.

I'm with you, Margaret. I think Kelly...

Maybe with a bit more guidance,

she might be able to make something more of her life.

I think the smiling Luther worries me.

Chris, I'd give him a job tomorrow.

I'd give Liam a kick up the backside and tell him

to start being a little bit more like a bloke.

-What's up? Are you tired?

-Too early, man.

29-year-old Liam left university two years ago

and now expects a job worthy of his 2:1 degree in Media Studies.

I want a career for myself.

-I don't want just little part-time jobs. I want a career.

-OK.

He'll be working alongside Stevie who took a job

as a carer four years ago, because it was the only work she could find.

You can never say that there is never any jobs going

because there is always care jobs.

I don't think he's got any excuses, really.

You should definitely be out there working.

Liam gets nearly £300 a month in Job-seeker's Allowance

and lives rent-free with his grandfather,

while Stevie earns £11 an hour, working up to seven days a week.

-What would be your worse-case scenario?

-Oh, man. I don't know.

I'm not comfortable with the whole cleaning up the mess, the back end.

Even if it came out the front end,

I wouldn't be happy cleaning up sick.

So we're going to see Mary.

She lives at home with her husband and her son.

She'll be in a wheelchair when we get in.

What we need to do is rota stand her onto a commode, give her

time to use her commode, then obviously clean her up afterwards.

Then rota stand her back into her day chair.

When you talk to the client, it's really important

that you come down to their level.

Kneel down in front of her to talk to her

because otherwise it's quite daunting leaning over the top.

Oh, my God. Do you know how nervous I am?

You'll be absolutely fine, I promise you.

Ready? Are you wanting the blinds shut, Mary,

-or do you want them left open?

-I don't really mind. I don't mind.

Your neighbour is cutting his grass. Shall we pull it down?

Just to give you a little bit of privacy.

Mary needs daily care after a stroke two years ago.

-Are you ready for us now, Mary? Have you had enough time?

-Yes, thank you.

Brilliant. I'll just pull these up. OK? Fine.

You're weeing, Mary. Would you like to sit back down?

Right, OK, we'll give you a couple of seconds.

OK, I'm just going to pull your knickers up now, Mary, OK?

Yes, thank you.

You've got Liam's strong arm on your back, haven't you?

Supporting you, look.

You just remove the commode slightly for me, Liam.

Yep? The grey pot pulls out. Be careful.

Make sure you've got hold of it properly.

Right, we go upstairs to empty it. How are you finding doing this?

This is your worst nightmare, isn't it?

So uncomfortable doing this.

You can't just come into somebody else's house

and help them out that way.

I don't feel comfortable doing it.

No.

Is there anything else you'd like me to do for you while I'm here?

-No, thank you.

-Right, we're just going to do your book, then, Mary,

and then will be out of your hair. OK?

-I think that was a bit of a waste of time, to be honest?

-What, that call?

-Yes.

-Why do you think that? That's really harsh.

-It's not harsh, man.

Of course it is. That poor lady needs to use her commode.

-The husband could help her.

-But look how old he is.

Do you think that is something he should be doing all the time?

It gives him a rest. It's a lot of hard work for an old man to do.

-You've got to remember we're doing it as a two.

-Yeah.

-When we're not there, he does it on his own and that's hard work.

-Yeah.

It is hard work.

Would you be able to hold her up

and swap the chairs over behind her on your own?

Even the little things go a long way for them.

Right, this is a holiday home. It's got 15 bedrooms.

It's also an early start for single mum, Kelly,

who's doing her first shift in nearly two years,

leaving her mum to look after the kids.

She's working as a cleaner for Debbie.

All the clients are important but this one,

everything has to be spot-on.

Perfect every time.

Debbie is also a single mum, but she runs her own cleaning business

and pays herself £1,300 a month.

Kelly is going to be working with us today, so, Stacy, I thought

-if Kelly worked with you...

-Yep.

You could show her how to make the beds and things like that.

I thought that would be great.

Some people last and some people don't.

I think, if a few things go wrong for Kelly today,

she won't be here tomorrow. No way. Put money on it.

-Have you made beds and that before?

-Not like these, no.

Kelly believes that even a part-time job that fits around child care

isn't worth it.

Jobs people say, "Oh, you'll be much better off." No.

When they work it out, you're about £20 a week better off.

I just think, why should I?

When you tuck them over,

-you're not allowed to see any of the sheet hanging...

-Right.

..underneath the bed.

It has to be pulled really tight, so there is no creases.

-Do you enjoy working?

-Yes.

I get £6.50 an hour, which I don't think is really that bad considering.

It gives me that independence for myself and, obviously,

because I used to be stuck at home all the time.

-Were you out of work long?

-Five years.

I was working when I fell pregnant,

then me and my partner decided that we both weren't going to work.

But now he's in full-time school,

I thought I needed to get out and do something for myself

rather than stuck in the house all the time.

-Do you reckon that is one of the best things you've ever done?

-Yeah.

Starting out work, yes.

Right, so here's the bed Kelly has made.

No, this side seems to be all right but that side is not.

Not in line with the sheet. There's quite a gap at the top.

I'm going to get them to do this one again.

Sometimes, distraction with the chatting

and they're not doing the job properly.

So when you was in here, who did which side? Was you that side?

-Oh, Stacey, that was you. Kelly, very well done.

-Yes!

It was me, look.

One shift down for Kelly while single Dad, Luther,

is on his way to start work at a local distribution warehouse.

He's spent the last 20 years as a stay-at-home dad.

The most important thing, if you're having children, is to raise them.

If I had had the chances to work and do that, I would have done it.

Luther's paired with lorry driver, Tim.

He and wife, Cheryl, both work full-time.

I'm not taking it down again. No way.

What do you think about people who have claimed benefits?

The reality is, their benefit money could be as close

to our annual income for the house and they get it for nothing.

They're not giving anything back for the money that they take.

I'll shout out the code and then you just write it down.

Tim works nights and looks after the children during the day.

Load 32, 320.

To ease him into the world of work,

Luther's doing a couple of light shifts in the warehouse.

He's signed off work due to a lung disease and hip problems.

70025.

-Oh, my back. 70...

-391.

But soon, all disability claimants will have to undergo new tests

and Luther's concerned he may be found fit to work,

forcing him to consider any job offered.

I'm worried that they'll ask me to do something that I can't do and

then I'm going to have to turn round and say, "Well, I can't do that."

I hate saying I can't do something to someone.

My back is sore.

I've got to sit down for a minute while he's doing what he's doing.

If I stand up for more than 15, 20 minutes,

my lower back just kills me.

Oh, dear.

Disability is a really difficult issue, isn't it?

Luther is not the only disabled person who's worried that he's going

to be forced to work when these new tests come in and start to bite.

-Oh, dear. It doesn't half get dusty in here, doesn't it?

-They do, yeah.

I think you can see he's a bit out of breath, can't you?

-He struggling a bit.

-Isn't he? You can hear the breathing.

-Also, bending down with the old legs.

-It's not an ideal job, is it?

-Not really.

-Nothing about it is suitable.

-Nothing.

What's giving you the most trouble? The breathing or the legs?

If I stand any longer than 15 minutes,

my lower back just is absolutely killing me. It's quite sore.

-So you have to have a break every so often?

-Yeah.

And those boxes were actually quite light, weren't they?

Yeah, they were very light, but it's the actual movement,

up and down, up and down, repetitive movement on my body.

It's just not very good, unfortunately.

I suppose, Luther, that the harsh reality is...

-..circumstances might push you into this sort of job.

-Without a doubt.

I'm sure, at some point, someone will say,

"There you are, you've got to do 20 hours."

My reply will be, "Train me, help me and I'll be glad to do that."

-I'll get him to do the easy ones first.

-Break me in gently.

Kris hasn't done manual labour before either.

He's on his first shift with central heating engineer, Simon.

Screw the brackets to the wall.

Obviously, that is what's going to keep the rad as level as possible.

Apart from some seasonal work,

he's been unemployed for the last four years.

And how many jobs would you say you apply for, on average?

About 50 to 80 jobs a day is what I try to aim for.

That is a lot of applications, isn't it?

I just feel I'm just not getting anywhere, fast.

-Do you think you can do that now on your own?

-Yeah, yeah. I'll have...

-Yeah.

-If you get any problems, just ask me, all right?

-Fair enough.

That goes on there.

But plumbing isn't exactly second nature to Kris...

I can't remember what I've got to do next.

I'm going to ask.

With no experience,

Kris would be paid around £10,000 a year as a plumber's apprentice,

50% less than his family receives in benefits.

It's like being back at school again.

I am tired, but I feel I haven't done really a lot,

from their point of view.

But I'm taking it.

It is a case of, I'm just not used to doing hands-on work.

Simon's boss, Steve, wants to find out

if Kris would even consider this sort of work.

What sort of jobs are you actually applying for?

The bulk of my skills and everything are office-based.

I would like to go for office-based work,

because I've worked and studied hard to be in the office,

but I'm not just getting anywhere, so I've had to open up.

Say, for instance,

-would you take a job where you were actually worse off financially?

-No.

Not at all? Not even a little bit of a drop?

I've dropped my lifestyle as low as it'll go anyway and it's a case

of, if I go any lower, I know I will struggle to pay my rent.

So there's some jobs you can't take.

Can't go for, because I know I'm going to put my house at risk.

I was quite long-term unemployed, going back some years

and I found that, once you get in employment,

once you actually start there on the job and you're doing something,

you're meeting up with other people and the opportunities seem to...

-Open up?

-Yeah, they do.

You don't know, really, the right thing to do

-or the wrong thing to do.

-Yeah.

Well, Margaret, I've been working I guess for the thick end

of 50 years and what I can say with some authority,

is that the world of work is not just about money,

it's about a lot more...

Self respect, to be able to look your old man in the eye,

-do you know?

-You're right, it's about pride in what you do, ambition,

wanting to succeed, wanting to get on,

and going to work gives you a sense of self confidence, doesn't it?

You are somebody because of what you do in the workplace.

Midday.

Liam, this is Sue.

On the other side of Ipswich,

Stevie and Liam are with their third client.

Right, do you want to glove and apron up?

-Are we having a change of clothes, Sue?

-They're all ready.

They're all ready for me.

Sue was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis 30 years ago.

For the last ten years, she's been confined to her bed.

-There you go, so how does that feel?

-That's nice, actually.

-Is that quite soothing?

-Mmm.

-Right, do you want to roll Sue back?

-Yeah.

Yeah. Sorry.

-You're doing it well there.

-Thank you.

-Cos I don't feel panicky about it, so...

-All right.

That's good.

I'm just trying to overcome the personal space

and my feelings for the person, you know.

I feel for the lady, because she's in that position,

but she's open, as in, "Look, I'm like this.

"There's nothing I can do, so let's just get on with it."

So maybe I should try and overcome that attitude as well.

I think this job is a job that you have to prove your dedication.

If your heart's not in it, then you don't succeed.

I've done three months solid before I got a day off.

But obviously, it's not just about work for me. I've got a home life.

I've got children that need me.

-Must be hard.

-Hard is an understatement, but I do it.

And I do it because I want to work.

'They've been on the go for 10 hours without stopping.'

-Hello!

-Mum!

'Finally, a chance to take a quick break.'

You all right? Hello, darling. You all right?

-Have you had a good day?

-Yeah, it's been all right.

-Kids been all right?

They've had their moments as always.

Quite often they're in bed when I go to work,

they're in bed when I come home.

If they're at school, they're not around like they are today,

cos they're still on holidays.

-So it's quite difficult.

-Is it, does it not affect your marriage as well?

Erm...

Not seeing each other? I mean...

Probably.

But I also think it really makes that time we do spend together

-really special, doesn't it?

-Yeah, it does.

And we do try to get as much time together as we can.

-CHILDREN YELL

-Come here.

You all right?

So, Chelsea, how do you feel about your mum working so much?

Well, I miss her so much and I like spending more time with Mum.

That is something she asks me on a regular basis, isn't it?

-To spend more time with me.

-Would you like her to stop working so much?

-Yes.

-Yeah?

-But what happens if Mummy stops working so much?

We won't get any money.

If my son told me to quit work, I'd quit work. Just for my child.

-I don't know how I'd do it, but...

-And you'd happily claim benefits?

I'd put family first.

As much as I want to work, I think I want the cushy life where

I work Monday to Friday, have every weekend with my son.

But I think you're overworking.

Work comes before your family and your kids and it's just like...

Nothing comes before my kids.

My kids are my world, I would die for my children.

-Every...

-On a part-time basis.

CHILDREN LAUGH

It sort of portrays us to be bad parents when actually, to me,

we're being really good parents

-because we're providing for our kids like we should.

-Yeah.

It's a little hurtful, but then he's entitled to his opinion, isn't he?

'Stevie won't see her children awake again

'until the same time tomorrow...'

I love you. Goodnight, darling.

'..as she still has to make return visits to her clients.'

'Over at a local school, Debbie has plenty of work for Kelly to do.'

Right, here we are. Put your gloves on, have you got 'em?

-Yeah, they're in me pocket.

-Get them on.

-OK, I'll let you get on, then.

-All right, then, I'll see you in a bit.

Cor, that stuff stinks!

I'm not used to wearing gloves

and that's, oh, it's horrible, feels horrible.

That's the sinks done.

All right, I think I'm done.

Just need to get a tissue and just wipe the taps,

so there's no water marks on them. Right.

-Did you wipe over the sanitary bins?

-No, that's one thing I didn't do.

No, OK. If you can just wipe over the sanitary bins in the next three,

that'd be lovely. Lovely jubbly.

-Hello, Debbie.

-Oh, hello there. Hiya.

-How are you?

-All right, thank you very much.

-Nice to see you again.

-Who's making that noise?

-Well, it's our Kelly.

How are you getting on down there, Kelly?

I'm getting on all right, thank you.

Lots of lavatories to clean, that's a hard old task.

Someone's got to do it, though.

What time did you start working this morning, Kelly?

-I got up at 20 to five this morning.

-20 to five?!

-Did you?

-Yes, 20 to five.

-Wow.

And I was out of the house by half past five, ready for work,

-to get to Debbie's for six o'clock.

-That's pretty early.

-So have you worked as hard as this ever before?

-Not all day.

What do you feel like now?

I will admit I'm tired now. I'm ready to drop, I think.

I don't think, er, if I was to take a cleaning job,

an early morning one would be suitable for me.

-You don't think it would be?

-No, because of childcare,

half past five in the morning would be a no-no.

Cos your mum can't come round at that time.

No, I think that's a bit unfair for her.

I'd quite happily do a late afternoon, early evening one.

I can understand that.

Kelly's beginning to look as though she's getting serious about this,

and initially, frankly, I didn't believe a word of it.

I know that childcare can put a limit on the sort of number and type

of shifts that you can do, but it doesn't put an absolute stop to it.

Look at Debbie. Single mum.

Do you think childcare would get in her way of working? Not a chance.

'5pm.

'Tim's wife Cheryl has just finished her shift as a medical secretary.'

-All right!

-Yeah. Do you want a coffee?

-Oh, yes, please.

-You all right?

'But Tim's working day as a lorry driver has yet to begin.'

-You all right, then?

-Yeah, not too bad.

'Tonight, single dad Luther will be joining Tim

'on his 12-hour night shift.'

-Hello!

-Hiya, Tim.

-How you doing?

-You all right?

-Not too bad. Welcome.

-Come in.

-Lovely, brilliant, thank you.

Oh, cheers. Nice one.

So is this your usual routine, then?

Yes, well, when it's school times, I leave here about three o'clock

to go and pick the children up for 3:30.

Come home, little bit of a tidy up, start the dinner,

get everything ready for the changeover with Cheryl,

so she has an easier time in the evening, if most of it's all done.

-Did you?

-Oh, yeah, I've done two more.

How long will you spend with her this evening

before we have to go off and do this shift?

She's normally home about 20 past four,

so we get about an hour and 15 minutes

to do the talking, chatting,

find out what's gone on in her day.

It's not a lot, is it, to be honest?

It's a grab-it-while-you-can sort of scenario at the moment.

Grab a quick bite to eat, hello, catch up on all the news and goodbye.

That must be quite a sacrifice for them. Yeah, definitely.

There's no time at all, realistically,

by the time I get in and he goes.

Tim worked out it's about nine and a bit hours a week

-you get to see each other.

-Really?

Wow, that's nothing at all, is it, really?

-It's not even a day's shift, is it?

-No, no.

-You've just done nearly nine hours of work.

-Wow.

CHILD: Are you going to work tomorrow?

Time for Luther to return to the warehouse,

this time accompanying Tim on the driving shift.

-See you later. Love you lots. Take care.

-We'll see you later, kids.

See you later.

This is my vehicle for tonight. This is my load and my trailer.

Height of a double decker bus. 16.1 feet.

In the winter...

Something like that, I wouldn't be able to do, to be honest.

My legs and I wouldn't be able to strain like that

to pull that across, so...

There is limitations to what I can and can't do, you know.

His body is a lot quicker than mine. Mine's a lot more slower, you see.

I haven't stepped on a ladder for about four years.

So if you see me fall off once, catch me.

That's it.

-That was all right.

-Right, sorted.

I think the hours will get to him quite drastically.

If he's not used to it and he likes his sleep,

I think he'll struggle on the amount of hours we'll be doing tonight.

-Hello there, Captain.

-Hello! Welcome aboard.

OK?

We're moving under our own steam.

We're on the road.

MUSIC: "On The Road Again" by Canned Heat

'Stevie and Liam are making their final stop of the day,

'a return visit to Sue.'

How do you feel about Liam doing your shower?

Oh, he'll be fine, I'm sure.

I'm not worried at all.

-Have you ever considered going into caring professionally?

-I haven't.

I doubted it, to be honest.

I didn't think I had what it took to do this type of work, so...

He tends to turn his nose down at quite a few jobs, unfortunately.

They were a little bit beneath you, weren't they, at the time?

-Not beneath me!

-Not what you was looking for, though.

Not my type, not my field of work.

What you trained for, what you'd hoped to get.

It's like, basically, I've got a degree, so I shouldn't have to

work in a factory after working so hard to get a degree.

I can understand it, but...

But, I was going to say, do you think it's good

that Liam's choosing to be on benefits rather than do any job?

No, I think you've got to go for any job.

-Cos you have to pay off the loans.

-As well as a factory?

-What's wrong with a factory?

-This is my argument with him.

It's what put the roof over our head.

All right.

But do you see where I'm coming from, though, Sue?

-No, sorry.

-Oh, dear.

I just think it's good to work, whatever you're doing.

I understand you wouldn't want to work in a factory.

I can see that,

because you're a caring person, you probably wouldn't like...

But does that give Liam the right to stay on benefits

rather than work in a factory,

-regardless if he wants to do it or not?

-No.

I think you should work.

If the jobs are there, he should take them, shouldn't he?

You should take them.

It's quite horrid not to be able to work.

I didn't like it.

-But you didn't get the choice, did you?

-I didn't get the choice.

Your body's working, mine's not.

That's the reality of it, isn't it, unfortunately?

If there's jobs out there and you're choosing not to do them,

then you're choosing to go on benefits, aren't you?

True.

She got me there, didn't she, Sue?

It's the end of the working day for Kris.

-Hey, baby.

-Hello, beautiful.

-You all right?

You've got a big smile on your face.

That's the biggest change I can see so far.

Bloody hard work, shifting heavy radiators around.

But I loved every moment of it.

You look good, you look like you've got a bounce in your step.

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

It does... Actually going out and getting my hands dirty,

definitely makes you feel good.

Kris seems to be getting a lot out of his return to work,

but is there a realistic chance of him

or any of Britain's 2½ million unemployed getting a job?

'To find out, we've come to meet Dave Simmonds,

'Chief Executive of Inclusion,

'an organisation that works to improve employment opportunities.'

Nationally, there are five people chasing every vacancy,

but there are people in work who want to change jobs,

so they're also competing for those vacancies, as well.

Actually, a recent survey has shown that, nationally,

as soon as you look at the low end of the labour market,

or entry-level jobs, there can be up to 45 people chasing every job

which requires low qualifications.

That is very, very competitive.

What help is there for people to retrain?

We've met a chap called Kris,

he's now had a little bit of experience in the plumbing business

but he's got no qualifications, he doesn't know the trade.

If he's on JSA, then, yes,

the fees at your local college, they will be waived.

But he still has to be actively seeking work,

which may interrupt his course.

So, all the time, there is a pressure on unemployed people

to take the job rather than retrain.

Surely the effort should be on creating jobs

in those areas of high unemployment.

Let's create jobs, and, once you create them,

there are jobs for people to go to.

Cutting benefits to try and force people back to work

will only work if there are jobs for them to do if they're forced.

But only 20% of them are ever going to get jobs unless we create more.

That's the real issue. All of this is just tinkering about with the edges.

And satisfying a public hunger for, you know,

"Cutting these benefit people, scroungers, and skivers.

"We are strivers."

Give them jobs, and they'll flock to them. No jobs, how can they?

Right, all come in. Mind the doggy-poos don't get out.

Hello, darling!

Debbie's taking Kelly to her house for a home-cooked meal

made by her 18-year-old daughter, Chelsea.

-This is another perk to my job.

-What's that?

Every night, Chelsea cooks dinner.

-That's her kitchen, is it?

-That's her kitchen,

and I'm not going to argue, not one little bit.

It's nice to sit down, isn't it?

Sometimes, when you're mum and dad,

you have to take every opportunity you can to earn money

-cos you never know what's around the corner.

-Yeah.

Because I was worried about what tomorrow might bring,

I just knew I had to keep going.

Do you ever think that your mum put work before you and your brother?

Sometimes, but now she's more lenient.

Like, she'll take, if it's my birthday or a special occasion,

she'll take it off,

but she'll always be working, even if she's on holiday.

There is a stop button,

but, between Monday and Friday, the business own me.

I dedicate my time to that business.

Someone rang me up six o'clock on a Thursday night and said,

"Can you come round tonight, eight o'clock?"

Even if that meant saying to Chelsea, "Oh, I'm not going to be home till later,"

she's cooked a special dinner,

I'll still let her down and go and price the job.

And how does that make you feel?

Upset, sometimes, but...

But, in my little head, I was doing it all to build you lot a future.

If my child, or my children, ever came to me

and just said what you said, I...

I don't know if I could be like you.

You obviously know that they feel like that. I think I'd be a wreck.

Like I'd really upset my kids because I've always worked, I've always...

As the kids got older, I wanted more for myself and them.

I wasn't happy with just working a few hours a week, minimum wage.

I wasn't happy with that. I wanted better.

'After the longest working day of her life...'

-I'll see you in the morning.

-'..Kelly's going home.

'But Debbie still has work to do.'

'It's half nine, and Debbie's still working.

'She's now working on the computer.'

She doesn't seem to stop.

Whereas me, I stopped,

and I'm going to go home and chill out, and not carry on working.

I think that's the difference between me and her.

'Yeah. But, no, I couldn't work this late.'

-Do you want any left on?

-No, I've got the one I need.

'Liam is also nearly done for the day.'

Well, you take care, Sue.

Sleep tight, and we'll see you tomorrow.

-It's been lovely meeting you.

-You too, Sue.

-You're going to be a great carer.

-I hope so, too.

-You're a natural.

-Have a good night's sleep, yeah?

-Thank you.

-Night, Sue.

'After 14 hours, his shift with Stevie is finally over.'

Do you not think now is the time to start doing these jobs

that you don't think you can do?

Cos, actually, you've proven yourself wrong by enjoying this work.

You might prove yourself wrong by enjoying other types of work.

True.

My only negative thought about how you're doing

-is you're still lacking that confidence.

-Mmm.

You need to just believe in yourself,

because, trust me, you've got it, you've got the ability to do it.

You just have to believe.

Other than that, I can't fault you in any way.

You're doing really well.

Thank you.

Tim and Luther are halfway to their destination,

but their shift won't be over for another eight hours.

I thought a lorry driver earned about 20 quid an hour, you know?

They might have done if they were hazardous trained.

My friend's trained to carry hazardous,

-and he's on about seven quid an hour.

-Blimey.

It's outrageous.

It's not good at all.

I'm on more than that because of night rate,

and then my overtime is slightly higher,

but it's not a great deal.

-My wife is on more money than I am, and she does days.

-Yeah.

It is amazing, Tim, actually.

You have to be such a solid couple

to just see each other for nine hours, you know?

You can't be intimate, you know?

It's a hug and a kiss. There's no "me and my wife" time.

No, that's right.

It suits us for our children's needs, and our work needs.

We both want to work full-time,

we don't want to give up full-time jobs,

and this just is a means, a means to an end.

Yeah, that's right.

It's midnight, and they've arrived at the transport depot.

While the truck's unloaded, time for tea.

-You're coping, aren't you?

-Yeah, it's all right.

-Can have my job.

There you go, there's on offer.

Is this an avenue that you'd pursue, to start from scratch?

I've never driven anything before, other than a bike.

I suppose if I start with a pump truck...work my way up!

That's one way of doing it.

It may be worth, like you say, popping into the Job Centre

and asking them what available training courses they've got.

It gives you a different variety. But yeah, it comes with practice

and you gain experience the more you do it.

But yeah, I mean... I love driving the truck.

I can see all of you must love doing what you do.

-Boys and their toys, isn't it? Boys and their toys.

-Yeah, exactly. Well, that's it, yeah.

It's a quite big change, because when I first started this project,

I didn't see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel

because I had been doing what I was doing for so long.

After that many years, you do, your mindset is completely

focused on what you've been, you know, what you're doing.

To see other guys working and things like that, you think, you know,

perhaps I could do that. Perhaps I could have a bit of that, you know.

It's 6am in Ipswich.

Stevie's on her way to pick up Liam...

PHONE BEEPS

..when she gets a message.

Liam's just text me to say that he's not coming,

he doesn't want me to pick up.

He's decided that he doesn't want to do this any more.

It's unacceptable. Totally acceptable.

I am shocked that he's done it. I'm really shocked.

Because he did do so well and there's so much potential with him.

He's let himself down. He's let me down, he's let the clients down and he's let himself down.

I can't do the other two calls on my own.

Are you all right to pick them up for me, please?

I am going to pop in and see Mary and Sue,

just to explain why Liam hasn't turned up.

It has a knock-on effect on you guys, doesn't it,

because obviously I can't provide the care I need to to you.

No, that's right, that's right.

I'm not impressed, no.

No. Does it make you feel different of him as what you felt yesterday afternoon?

I feel really angry now, actually.

Really angry.

-I put myself out...

-Mm.

..for him.

-That's a shame.

-I find that really quite distressing.

Oh, Sue, don't get upset!

Oh, sorry! I just wish he could see you like this, I really do.

I don't think he realises the consequences

of what he's done this morning.

It's just so unfair.

But Liam is blissfully unaware of the upset he's caused.

Yeah, woke up this morning

and just didn't feel I could get up at six o'clock again.

That was way too early to do that long shift.

By the time I went to bed last night, it was like 11 o'clock.

That was a killer, so couldn't do that.

That was a no-no.

I didn't expect like a 14-hour day yesterday,

so that was a killer for me.

So to imagine how she does four or five days straight,

that's too much, man.

Kelly has reported for duty - to clean some more toilets.

I'm just going to potter about today and do my own little job

she's asked me to do, and hopefully that'll be good enough for her.

You know, if I've done something wrong, I expect her to tell me

and take it with a pinch of salt, really,

and I'll know what to do next time.

But hopefully, there won't be any need for anything wrong.

Right, there's a cobweb behind the door. I think that's maybe one that you missed.

Always do behind the door, because that's where the dust collects.

See, when you walk in, you only see this,

-but when you're on the toilet, you see that.

-Yeah.

I mean, attention to detail is really important.

-Did you wash the toilet brush holder?

-No, I didn't.

No, you didn't, right.

-Did you wipe the pipes?

-No, I didn't, no.

-No. Can I ask why you didn't?

-I didn't think about it.

-No? You know, if you're going to clean it, clean it.

It's not just about the sink, the toilet, it's about everything.

I think the trouble is everybody has got their own way of doing stuff.

I mean, I haven't worked for two-and-a-half years.

I didn't realise how hard cleaning would be.

'I mean, she hasn't really done any of what I call hard work.'

I call difficult cleaning when you've got to scrub, you know,

grease off an oven and stuff like that.

I think I have given her a relatively easy job today

and she's not coped that well.

If I didn't have to clean again, I would be happy.

As in, work and clean. Cos I just...

I thought I would get back into it quite easily.

I think you probably lost heart a little bit. I do, honestly.

-Probably, yeah.

-I think you've done this now

and I think that's made your mind up that it's not what you want to do.

The thing is, has that put you off work entirely?

No, no. This has given me a taste of what my life could be.

-Do think this has been positive for you, then?

-Yeah, I do.

Just by working, I proved I can do it. I know I can do it.

-Did you think you couldn't do it, then, before?

-Yeah.

I think, after this whole experience, maybe give it a couple weeks,

you'll start trying for jobs.

But if you don't succeed, I don't think that's going to be

try and try again. I think you'll probably...

-You think I'll just give up?

-Yeah, I do a little bit.

-That's fair enough.

Kris, who's never considered a manual job...

-That's better!

-..is getting into the swing of things.

You don't forget what it's like to work.

But, when you do, it doesn't half feel good.

Simon takes home around £19,000 a year.

That's less than Kris's family gets from the state.

You work really hard for your money.

And you don't have, really, that much disposable income.

Knowing people receiving benefits can get just as much money,

do you think it's really worth it?

For me, it's worth it.

The sense of pride that it gives me,

the role model I feel I am being for my children, and supporting

my family, that's the most important thing in the world to me.

Nothing else really matters, to be honest with you, you know.

I don't want to be on benefits and I bet no-one else wants to be on benefits.

It's opportunities like this that just open and you step out the box.

You think, like, what are the ups and downs

for getting a job that doesn't pay that much?

I know I'll get some benefits,

but it's a case of looking into career moves and different areas.

But you sit there and think, "Well, why didn't I think about this before?"

You go, "slap". Moment of truth.

-Spot on.

-Onto the next one.

Carry on like that, you're doing well.

Cool.

From seeing him at the beginning to seeing him now, he does

definitely seem a lot more confident.

OK, thank you.

There has been a bit of realisation to the fact that...

..he hasn't... he's got other options, you know?

Liam may not have turned up for work this morning,

but he has agreed to meet Stevie.

-HE KNOCKS ON DOOR

-Hello, Miss Stevie.

-Hello.

-How are you?

-What happened to you?

Man, it killed me.

My normal working hours.

How do think the clients felt?

You helped me yesterday, you know I can't do them on my own.

What do you think happened to them?

-I know.

-I can't do it, can I?

Not on your own, no.

Did you not think of that when you decided not to show up this morning?

I don't know. What do you want me to say to that?

"Sorry" would be nice!

-You know...

-I'm really sorry about it.

-You need to think about the consequences of your actions, don't you?

-Yeah.

It's all good and well saying sorry.

-You told me you was going to turn up, and you didn't.

-I didn't realise.

I didn't look at the bigger picture, like I said,

and I didn't realise it would be that bad.

I'm just thinking of Sue there in that bed now, and it's like,

-bloody hell, it's horrible, man.

-I went to see her this morning.

You know, she was looking forward to chatting with you.

When I went in and said to her that you decided you couldn't do it today,

she was really disappointed.

Oh, dear.

I do feel bad about today and not turning up with Stevie.

As she said, it's the people that suffered there.

And she needed me to help her work, but she didn't NEED ME need me.

The people who were in that bed, or the people in the houses, they needed me.

And to hear that Sue had conversations ready for me

because she was excited to see me and that

was a bit of a heart-touching moment.

Bloody hell, Liam, maybe I should have took responsibility.

'Our benefit claimants have had a taste of the world of work,

'some of them for the first time in years.

'But has the experience changed any of their attitudes to work?

'And ultimately, do they think work is worth it?'

-How are you?

-Not bad.

-Good to see you again.

-Yourself?

-Hello, Luther. Hi, Tim. TIM:

-Hi, how are you doing?

-Fine.

Oh, dear. How was it?

Brilliant. It was a real good adventure, wasn't it?

Yeah, had a really good time.

So, Luther, the time you spent in Tim's world of work,

what have you learned?

Going on the wagon with Tim has really opened my eyes

and shown me that, you know, hard work, the value of work...

I know it's long hours and he doesn't see the kids much, but it's

a means to an end, and it's working for the family and it's really...

You know, it's opened my eyes to it, really.

I haven't felt like that, and it's energised me to get up and do something for myself.

Has that made you reassess what you get on benefits?

I didn't know what a job is worth, but I certainly think

both of their jobs is worth more than what they get, to be honest.

I didn't realise the price of things was so high and wages were so low in this country.

-I really didn't.

-But Luther, that's the market.

That's the reality of Tim and Cheryl's working life.

That's reality, that's the market.

I think you've been living in a bit of a parallel universe.

A bit of a dream world, maybe.

Well, Kris, has spending time with Simon

changed the way you look at the world of work?

I loved every moment with it. Simon is a great bloke to work with.

I love getting my hands dirty,

and I found my self-worth again, basically.

It just felt fantastic, and it's just makes you more keen,

or class it as a bit of a kick up the backside to say,

"This is what you could have."

And I want it.

So, if a job offer did come floating through your letterbox

from Simon's company and it was for less money, less than the

18,000 a year that you're getting on benefits, would you go for it?

Yeah. As long as I can make sure that all the bills and that...

my family have a roof over their head, of course I'll take it.

Would you give him a job?

Yeah. If it was in my control, I'd offer him a job, definitely.

I think he's got the right ethic and attitude towards work.

Just need someone to give him that chance.

Now, Kris, I've always thought he's a worker,

but he's struggling with himself about whether he would take

a job that pays less than the benefits he's currently getting.

He says he would. But when push comes to shove, well, let's see.

Working 12 hours for, say, four or five days a week,

I would find it hard.

If I was to get a little three hour cleaning job, it wouldn't be...

you know, I'd be all right with that.

So do you think that's a possibility now? Maybe five afternoons a week?

Yeah! I'm willing to take a job that I'm...

Not 16 hours, but a lower job, a lower hour job to get less money,

just to get me foot in the door and, you know, who knows?

-I've learnt that from Debbie, you know?

-That's a change, isn't it?

Kelly needs guiding in the right direction.

I mean, luckily, Kelly has stumbled across me,

so I can help her.

Hopefully, she'll keep this positive thinking

and that will lead her to a job.

If you had a job going at your cleaning firm,

would you offer it to Kelly?

I don't think Kelly's quite there.

You know, maybe another month's time if she is moving forward and

showing me that this is absolutely what she wants to do, then possibly.

Is the fear, though, that as soon as Debbie withdraws,

that you're going to slide back to where you work?

That's the danger, but I'm adamant that I'm not going to let it happen.

I'm determined to prove, if not myself,

Debbie wrong that I can do it.

Did Liam turned up promptly and on time when he was working with you?

He did the first day.

He was there first day.

Second day, no. Unfortunately not.

-He didn't turn up?

-No.

-Not at all?

-No.

Cos you can't just play with a job, can you?

You've got to turn up every day. You can't just turn up when you want to.

-Not in this sort of job, particularly.

-No.

But I think it sort of sunk in a little bit to you

when I told you how the clients reacted.

-It's all about them more than us...

-Someone lying there in bed waiting to be looked after

and nobody turns up?

Yeah. I think you sort of realise that now, don't you?

It's one of those things.

Regardless of how you feel, they've got to come first.

So is being a carer a job that you would consider?

-Yes, definitely.

-And you wouldn't have before?

-No.

I thought too much into it about wiping people's bums

and that kind of work, but it's a lot bigger than that now.

Being out of work kind of brought me down,

so when I worked that one day with Stevie and how much praise

I got, it was kind of like, "I can do this."

So it brought me up a lot.

-Somebody wanted you?

-Yeah.

Somebody liked what I was doing, and had faith in me.

So, Liam, what you're saying also is it's not just about money,

it's about what you get out of that work.

Stevie had probably more faith in me than I did in myself, really.

So, really made me hold my head up high,

cos I can do it and I didn't think I could.

What about your degree?

I've done so much hard work and blood, sweat and tears

for that degree, I just don't want it to go to waste, you know?

But we'll see how it goes.

I think right now it's definitely a career path in caring for me.

Unfortunately, I hear it too often.

People on benefits come into this line of work, cos it is

easy to come into, and they're all really up for it and keen.

Give them a week, two weeks, they tend to sort of back away.

So let's see what Liam can do.

Well, fundamentally, these are four claimants

do all seem to want to work, don't they?

But there's a difficulty.

You can't just expect people to fill in applications on a website

and get jobs. They need support.

They need to be given the opportunity to meet people face-to-face

and they need training to give them the self confidence to handle

those interviews, so they can get themselves out of the benefits trap.

Clearly, there is an argument, perhaps, for cutting benefits,

cutting benefits as long as there's the proper support for people

when they're out there looking for work.

Let's face it, nationally, five people chasing every job.

But, perhaps the most crucial thing, Margaret,

is that we don't punish people.

45 people looking for every low skilled job.

What are the chances?

What do we do? Drive them into poverty just to save money?

Just to save a few quid? No.

Since filming, Kelly has started work experience in a furniture shop.

Kris is due to get an interview at Simon's company

and is hoping to be working there soon.

Luther's applying to do a degree and looking for volunteer work.

And Liam has started working with Stevie as a carer.

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd