Melody Makers Music Moguls: Masters of Pop

This programme contains some strong language.

Put your hands together and make some noise

for Nile Rogers and CHIIIIC!

CROWD ROARS

-Hup, two, ahhh...

-# Freak out!

# Le freak, c'est chic

# Freak out... #

HE CONTINUES RIFF ON GUITAR

I've been producing music for almost 40 years.

Music means everything to me.

HE CONTINUES RIFF FROM "Le Freak"

# Freak out!

# Ah, freak out... #

My partner Bernard Edwards and I started the group Chic in 1976

and we went on to become the producers, too.

Let me tell you something. I really loved it.

Since then, I've produced some amazing artists

from Diana Ross to Sister Sledge,

from Madonna to Disclosure, from Daft Punk to David Bowie.

It's a journey that continues to inspire me.

INTRO TO DAVID BOWIE'S "LET'S DANCE"

But what does a producer actually do?

You might think we just twiddle knobs and push buttons

but it's so much more than that.

A record producer is responsible for the creative outcome of a record.

We're really film directors, but for music.

The record producer's job is to think about the big picture,

whilst the artist's job is to think about the small, local details.

You have to find the right song, with the right lyrics.

The role of a producer, really, is just to take the song at hand

or the album, and make it as great as it can be for that artist.

The greatest thing about being a producer is

the art of collaboration and negotiation.

My job is part creator, part psychologist.

I'm like your biggest, biggest, biggest fan.

I'm like, "Come on, you can do it!"

This is the story

of some of the most influential producers in pop -

the music moguls and melody makers

who have shaped and defined the history of modern music.

MUSIC: Good Times by Chic

# Good times

# These are the good times. #

MUSIC: Uptown Funk by Mark Ronson ft Bruno Mars

One of my favourite producers working today is Mark Ronson.

He started out as a DJ in New York

and has gone on to produce a diverse range of artists

including Paul McCartney, Christina Aguilera and Robbie Williams.

I've known Mark Ronson since he was five, six years old.

I remember when he was a child, I gave him a Sony Walkman.

And I think he got a second one.

He started bouncing songs back and forth.

So he started to become a producer, like, almost right away.

So proud of Mark. And he knows.

Every time I see him I'm just, like,

I can't believe you turned out THAT cool.

You're like, insanely cool.

Mark has got a great knowledge about certain styles of music

and that's often a really important part

because an artist will very often say,

"You know that record, blah-de-blah-de-blah?

"I love that drum sound," or "I love that rhythm on that record,"

or "I love that bass part," or "What was that synth they used?"

They don't say, "It's 120 bpm and I want it in C

"and I want the bassline to be a Minimoog."

Mark's knowledge of records, because he's a DJ, is...deep.

And often, he can pull that out the drawer

and go, "Well, it's this record or it could this or it could be that."

Mark's knowledge and love of '60s pop, in particular,

is evident in his 2007 album Version, which features

retro covers of classic songs with artists such as Daniel Merryweather

and Lily Allen.

# Drifting apart like a plate tectonic

# It don't matter to me

# Cos all I wanted to be... #

Singing is such a personal and emotive thing.

I get really nervous and embarrassed in the studio,

especially with new people.

And I managed to do it with Mark in a way that I still felt comfortable.

# Oh, my God, I can't believe it

# I've never been this far away from home... #

I guess it's just his mannerism, you know,

and his personality, you know, puts you at ease.

There are some people that I've worked with

that are completely the opposite.

Some people are really confident, really aggressive,

or can kind of draw stuff out of you in another way.

Everyone has a different approach, and, you know, Mark's is being nice.

MUSIC: Back to Black by Amy Winehouse

Mark found his perfect match in singer Amy Winehouse.

Together they brought traditional recording techniques

back into fashion and a great Motown vibe

to her critically acclaimed album, Back to Black.

# He left no time to regret... #

First artist that I really clicked with was probably Amy

when we were working on Back to Black.

# ..same old safe bet... #

Amy had played me this stuff by the Shangri-Las

and we both obviously loved Motown and '60s and early '70s soul music.

# Get on without my guy

# You went back... #

That was it. She just sort of had that idea and I was, like,

and it was a great idea, and it was something that really

appealed to me musically and I liked the idea of, like,

the little science part of my mind

which is probably 20% of my producer brain, likes the idea of, like,

being given a task, like "make it sound like this."

Mark likes songwriters who write a song

and then come to him with a finished song.

And I like producers who, I take them a whole song

and then they do what they want around it after.

# We only said goodbye with words

# I died a hundred times... #

She would just leave me, like, for a night

and I would drum up an arrangement.

She would come in the next day, I'd play it for her and, like,

"D'you like it?" and she's, like, "Yeah," and then she'd just go sing.

MUSIC: You Know I'm No Good by Amy Winehouse

# Meet you downstairs in the bar and hurt... #

Sometimes with singers, basically, you might get someone to come in,

even a great singer, and do, like, ten, 15 takes of singing

the whole song down ten times

and you go through and pick your favourite bit.

But Amy was just...

..she was so good that basically you'd get her to sing, maybe twice,

both takes would be perfect, and then if you got any more than that

then you were just creating a bit of a headache for yourself

because then you start to go, like, "Oh, fuck, but that one's so good,

"too, but what if I take that?" And then...

But, like, if I only use the verse on this one

then I'm sort of like, I'm robbing the world of, like,

hearing this other performance and this thing that she did

because, you know, like all jazz musicians and singers,

she never did it the same way twice.

# Upstairs in bed with my ex-boy... #

It's funny because I became so spoiled about this, like,

being about how well we got on musically, that, like, occasionally

when I would do something that she didn't like,

it would be quite jarring because I'd just be, like,

"D'you like that?" And she'd be like,

"Um... No."

And I'd be like, "Well, what if I change this?"

Cos that happens a lot in studio, it's kind of your ego.

So I'd be like what if I, like, take the shaker out

or just add a tambourine here

and she was like, "No, it's still shit."

And I'd be like, "What if I do this?" And she's, like,

"Why are you trying to fix something that's shit anyway?"

And that was, like, a really amazing lesson that

I kind of learned from her in the studio, like, early on.

Like, if something's, like, if something's not happening,

like, why waste time?

# They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no." #

# Yes, I've been black but when I come back

# You'll know, know, know... #

I still do all of my recording analogue.

Like, something I learned when I was working on Back to Black

and I just realised this is how all my favourite records are made,

this is why the records I love sound like this,

I'm going to make records like this.

# They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no."

Mark's skill lies in making a vintage sound relevant to a new age.

Those classic production values bring a warmth and fullness

to his records in this very digital world.

To understand what Mark was feeding from,

let's go back to the beginning. Back to Motown.

# But I won't go, go, go. #

MUSIC: You've Really Got A Hold On Me by Smokey Robinson and the Miracles

The Motown sound, it's basically feeling.

We had a saying back then, you gotta get 'em

in the first eight bars or you've lost it.

It's probably one of the most important,

if not THE single most important musical institution in America.

Founded in Detroit in 1959 by Berry Gordy, Motown was

one of the first independent record labels to create

a distinctive sound, fusing soul, pop and gospel.

Listen - you can instantly recognise a Motown song.

Great melodies, pumping bass-lines,

tambourines and hand claps emphasising the rhythms.

# Come on, girl... #

Just check out the percussion here on

Reach Out I'll be There by The Four Tops.

Now that's classic Motown production!

# Ha! I'll be there

# To love and comfort you, girl... #

The creation of this sound was due in no small part

to the skill of songwriting and producing partnership

Brian and Eddie Holland and Lamont Dozier.

We wanted to make experiences in music.

And that's what Motown was. An experience in music.

That idea of song craft and musicianship

and the performances and the way it was recorded,

Motown was the best that ever did that.

# Nowhere to run to, baby,

# Nowhere to hide... #

Motown had a huge impact.

It was a black-owned business whose massive crossover success

gave white America a new perspective on black culture.

But Motown didn't just push the envelope socially,

they did it sonically as well.

Long before the digital technology we have today, Motown enabled

producers to experiment with ways of manipulating sound.

The Motown record makers were innovating.

They would use the materials that were on hand to make the records

that they wanted to make.

Anything that made sound was a viable candidate

to be used as a musical instrument.

For example, the use of tyre chains on the song, Nowhere to Run.

RHYTHMIC CLINKING

# Nowhere to run to, baby

# Nowhere to hide... #

I'd take advantage of all the sounds in the world,

see if I can make it into something.

Music is all around us all the time. Y'know?

That drill that we hear there, you could take that little bit

and put it into a song and what have you got? You've got a dance song.

MUSIC: White Rabbit by Jefferson Airplane

Back in the late '60s, when those people would come and experiment

with psychedelic sounds and things, we throwed our hat in the ring.

I came in the studio and Michael, the engineer,

he was tuning the room.

And he was using this oscillator.

HE MIMICS SOUND

And I said, "Hey, Brian, take a listen to this!"

"What can we do with that? That sounds like something.

"Why don't we stick that on that Reflections thing?"

BLEEPING

I mean, they made sounds like synthesisers

before synthesisers existed.

The reason it's so amazing, too, is cos it's pretty psychedelic

and unusual for the time.

# Through the mirror of my mind, time after time... #

That was pretty wild for a Motown record

and what they'd had the hits with, up until then.

# Reflections of the way life used to be... #

It becomes so much the sound of, like, pop culture that we forget

that when they came out, that was really subversive.

# No love to shield me, trapped in a world... #

It's like Diana Ross', like, her singing, it's her diction,

it's just a perfect record.

# Reflections of the way life used to be... #

Motown is written into the DNA of modern pop music.

It's hard to overestimate its influence, as its drumbeats,

string sections and horn parts are reinterpreted by modern producers

like Mark Ronson, Jamie xx and Kanye West again and again.

But while the Motown guys were beginning to experiment with sound,

back in the UK, one man was pushing sonic boundaries even further

from his custom-built studio above a handbag shop

on London's Holloway Road -

visionary producer Joe Meek.

His studio basically was his bathroom in his house.

That's how he used to get the echo and everything in his house.

We used to do all the guitars and drums and everything -

all used to be on the landing.

Oh, he used to record anything that was going, Joe.

I remember going into the toilet and dropping marbles in the toilet

so he could record, as it's going "plop" into the pan.

The reason Joe Meek's recordings are so special is,

apart from the fact that it's the first time some of this

had ever been done, he took overdubbing to another level.

Overdubbing is a major innovation. It's the process of multi-tracking -

recording one track over another onto the same piece of tape

without erasing the original, stacking sounds to give the sense

that there are lots of instruments playing at the same time.

It's worth remembering that he didn't have

multitrack facilities like we do today.

If he recorded the band and wanted to add just one more thing,

he'd have to play back that tape,

transfer it to a new tape machine

and add whatever else he wanted to add.

-Sorry, is that going to rerun again?

-Yes.

Yeah, fair enough, it went a bit weird, that time.

So each time he added a new thing, the quality went down and down,

which meant the early recordings started to sound really muffled,

so he would then add more equalisation,

or add extra tambourines or handclaps,

something else to bring back the missing rhythm

because the rhythm would be three or four generations away.

But that "mush" created

what really became an iconic rock and roll sound.

The "mush" factor helped make Telstar by the Tornados

the first song by a British instrumental group

to reach number one on the American Billboard charts.

We were given the demo, obviously, and then Joe said, "It's Telstar,

"it's this rocket that's gone up and whatever", and so we then...

we sat then and it took us about two days to record it.

And when we recorded it in the studio I thought,

"Phew, yeah, great, big deal!"

But when Joe sent me the actual finished article,

I couldn't believe it.

I never for one minute ever thought it would get to number one.

Sound-wise he was a genius, there was no two ways about it.

Musically, he was a moron, to be honest with you!

I mean, he didn't know the difference between a crotchet

and a hatchet, to be honest with you.

But sound-wise, you can't fault him.

He was rushing around all the time, tweaking knobs, bleep, bleep,

cutting up tapes and everything

and he had all these weird sounds going for him.

So he was a technical genius.

Joe Meek didn't really have any musical knowledge.

But that's where this whole role of what a record producer is

is so unique, because it's fair to say

that all those great musicians that Joe Meek had in the room,

if he wasn't in the room, that wouldn't have happened.

And as great as those players were, you needed a catalyst.

So Joe Meek, like many producers since,

having a producer who's a catalyst can stimulate ideas.

And that is, in my view, as valid as a producer

who writes all the notes out and says "just play this".

I have recorded it, actually, several times since,

on all the modern equipment and you can't get near the sound Joe got.

You listen to him now and the things he was doing,

there's this culture at the moment of pitch-shifting vocals up and down.

Again, something that makes a record sound modern,

and you go back and listen to these Joe Meek records from, like,

from the '60s, and he's recorded his vocal at half speed

and sped the tape up and printed it to another tape then back again,

and, you know, guitars pitched up and down

and these kind of like crazy delays.

You know, he was 60 years ahead of the curve!

Joe was a troubled soul who committed suicide

after shooting his landlady in 1967.

But his paranoia had set in long before this,

convinced that other producers were stealing his ideas.

The phone rang and Joe said to me,

"Go downstairs and answer the phone." I said, "OK."

"Yes, hello?" "Oh, is Mr Meek there?"

I said, "Yes, could I ask who's calling, please?"

He says, 'Oh, it's Phil Spector." I went "Oh, Christ!" You know?

Went up and said, "Joe, Phil Spector's on the phone."

He went, "Oh, is he?!" Next thing, he ran down the stairs,

ranting and raving, telling me he was a this and that,

he was a thief and all of that

and all of a sudden he went BANG!

And he's actually smashed the phone putting it down, you know?

"You stole all my ideas!"

But, you know, that was Joe.

MUSIC: Be My Baby by The Ronettes

# The night we met I knew I needed you so... #

Convicted of murder in 2009, the stories of Phil Spector's

eccentric and often dangerous behaviours are legendary.

It's a sad fall from grace from his glory days as a producer

in the '60s when he created the famous Wall of Sound,

another milestone in pop record production.

# ..every place we go, so won't you please

-# Be my, be my baby

-# Be my little baby... #

Hi technique involved multiple layers of overdubbing,

sometimes doubling or tripling the same part

to create a massive sense of scale

which he called his Wagnerian approach to rock and roll.

# I'll make you happy, baby, just wait and see

# For every kiss you give me... #

There's also something about that Wall of Sound.

The instrumentation became this big, blurred mush

and the vocals sat on top of it.

# When I was a little girl...

It sounded so different to everything else

and therefore it stood out.

The one thing you have to remember, I think, as a producer

is that most people, they hear a piece of music,

they're hearing a song, or they're hearing a feeling.

A lot of people hear a piece of music

and they're only hearing the lyrics.

They couldn't tell you what's going on underneath,

they can only tell you how it makes them feel.

# Met him on a Monday and my heart stood still

# Da doo ron ron ron, da doo ron ron... #

Between 1960 and 1966,

he masterminded a raft of top 40 singles, discovering and producing

girl groups like The Blossoms, The Ronettes and The Crystals.

One of the other roles of a record producer is to find talent.

And Phil Spector - honestly - to have discovered

the number of artists that he discovered, that's quite a skill.

He didn't do it once, he did it several times.

One, two, three...

# Every evening when the sun goes down

# Whoo-whoo... #

That is the role of a record producer.

Not just making records. Very often, it is very frustrating.

You spend hours and hours in the studio, but it's putting

together the artists, the musicians, to get that thing that really works.

And certainly he was able to find a song,

and this is something people forget.

That Wall of Sound is fabulous, but they're great, great songs

and he had the understanding and the knowledge of what was a great song.

# It was 20 years ago today

# Sergeant Pepper taught the band to play... #

For me, the producer who took the art of production

to a whole new level was the man

known as the fifth Beatle - George Martin.

He had the orchestrating skills of Spector, the technical

prowess of Joe Meek, and the biggest band in the world to do it with.

He basically changed how all of us record

from, say, the mid-'60s onwards till now.

Martin, who began his career working for the BBC's classical music

department, is the quintessential modern producer -

an arranger, a musician, writer, collaborator and technical wizard

who had his own musical toy shop in Abbey Road Studios.

Run back the tape, please, would you?

MUSIC SPOOLS BACK

You can cut, you can edit, obviously, you can slow down

or speed up the tape, you can put in backwards stuff,

you can put in electronic sounds which you couldn't possibly reproduce live.

George Martin, because of all of his expertise with radio shows,

was ready-made for when The Beatles wanted to do something

a little outside the realms of straight recording.

It's more fun in the record if there's a few sounds

that you don't really know what they are.

Really, they're just instruments and something happens on here.

I couldn't tell you what because we have a special man who sits here

and goes like this.

Their "special man" elevated pop music to an even greater level with

the album Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.

Early Beatles sessions were basically live recordings with

a couple of overdubs, but when the band decided to stop playing live,

Martin was free to experiment fully with what was possible in the studio,

bending sounds, bouncing tracks and even adding a 40-piece orchestra.

He is both a technician and knows when to do strange things

like lower the tempo of Strawberry Fields Forever.

Only George Martin could have pulled that off.

Strawberry Fields was the first song recorded for the album

but was ultimately released as a single instead

and its production was far from straightforward.

# ..take you down, cos I'm going to

# Strawberry Fields... #

Strawberry Fields Forever is a classic example

of the producer fixing the problem.

It was recorded once, and finished.

And they were unhappy with it.

They then recorded it again - new tempo, new key.

John Lennon said to Sir George Martin,

"I like that bit of that one and that bit of the other one",

and George said, "But they're in different keys

"and different tempos".

And I know this because George told me personally,

John said to him, "Well, you can fix it - you're the producer!"

# Misunderstanding all you see... #

George fixed it by slowing down the first take to match

the second in tempo and key.

Which is why, at the beginning, John's voice is,

# "Let me take you down"

because it's lower in pitch than his natural voice.

But of course, it created this amazing sound

because he hadn't sung like that before.

That's the role of a record producer.

# Let me take you down, cos I'm going to

# Strawberry Fields... #

There are no rules. You can do what the hell you want.

And that's what George Martin taught me.

MUSIC: Children of the Revolution by T-Rex

Tony Visconti is arguably one of the greatest producers of the 1970s.

He's worked with some of the biggest acts in the history of pop,

such as T-Rex, Thin Lizzy, Iggy Pop and U2.

And our paths have crossed as we've both produced

the singular talent that is David Bowie.

I don't think he gets the credit he's really due as a producer

but he's made just some amazing, amazing, records, you know,

to the point where you find yourself doing something in the studio

and you think, "I know this sound from somewhere"

and it's like - "Visconti did it!"

You know, the Bowie, Eno, Visconti dynamic has been one of the most

creatively successful relationships, I think, in the business.

In Berlin in 1977, Visconti and Bowie teamed up

with synth legend Brian Eno

and the avant-garde King Crimson guitarist, Robert Fripp.

They worked together to produce Bowie's seminal album, Heroes.

MUSIC: Heroes by David Bowie

I love Tony. Heroes is a particularly great song.

Bowie has had amazing tracks, and amazing ears

and amazing production ever since the beginning,

because he's in the room with people that are on a high level

when it comes to their musicality and it just makes...an interesting mix.

David Bowie was on top of his game when Heroes came out.

And the producer's obligation is thus to make a record that

continues this artist's tradition

and doesn't take too sharp of a left or right turn.

It was a brilliant work of art.

Heroes is a good example of a producer using the mixing console

as an instrument and tool, because all those levels have to be set,

but how you set them does have quite an impact

on the way that you hear the song.

In a TV exclusive, Tony is going to give us

a masterclass in production.

By returning to the original stems of the title track

he is going to show us how he layered and produced

the song that would become a Bowie classic.

This is what I'm going to play you, the basic track,

when we had Dennis Davis sitting on drums,

Carlos is in the room with his guitar

and the piano player is David Bowie.

Here's the drums.

Then we have George Murray on bass.

That's it, we're going to build up Heroes on top of this.

BASS AND DRUMS TRACKS PLAY

The first cool sound I guess would be, Brian Eno said,

"OK, let me have a few passes"

with this little synthesiser he carried around in a briefcase.

So here we have mixed synths.

BASS AND DRUMS TRACK

LINGERING SYNTH CHORD

CHORD SWELLS AND COMPLEXIFIES

Beautiful!

It's in the mix but you've never heard it this clear.

TRACKS INTERMINGLE

So another thing David added to this, there was, in those days

there were some primitive string synthesisers,

it's called a Selina string synthesiser, so this is,

David played this part.

DELICATE, REEDY SYNTH CHORDS

We thought this was the bee's knees back in the day

but it's really cheesy, a very cheesy sound!

REEDY CHORDS CONTINUE

OK, so I'll put that into the mix.

OVERLAID TRACKS PLAY

OK, starting to sound like Heroes even more.

We invited Robert Fripp to come to the studio.

And he comes and lays down three tracks.

-HIGH-PITCHED NOTE

-So we have this...

We have this...

NOTE BENDS AND WAVERS

He came in later there.

Different sound, then we have this track. Three tracks.

TONES FADE IN AND OUT

Now they're all very pretty but they're meaningless

until I threw them up like this - the three together.

I had to do some judicial mix balancing in the mix, you know,

but we always had this constant Fripp...thing

going all over the place, like this celestial Fripp sound.

OK.

Now, let's see. There was one other thing

that David played. He had this instrument called the Chamberlain

which was a more advanced Mellotron.

The Chamberlain and the Mellotron were early samplers.

These really were real musicians, but the sound quality wasn't great.

So if you can go up to the part where the brass comes in, Erin?

This is David. This is a brass track.

STACCATO SYNTH RIFF

The riff is definitely Stax Records from Alabama, you know, but...

STACCATO SYNTH RIFF REPEATS

But it's not a very good brass sound. But it's in the mix.

MIX INCLUDING RIFF

OK, we only had one track left for the vocal,

so I set up a mic in the middle of the room to capture how the sound

travels that far, maybe 15, 20 feet,

and then I set up a third mic in the rear of the room

where it travels the whole length, probably 50 feet.

And David was on this end of the room

with a close mic in front of him.

We had this ability in those days to put an electronic gate

on a audio signal, so I put an electronic gate

on the middle microphone and the distant microphone

and set them to specific threshold where,

if David sings loud enough, he'll open the microphone.

If he sings quiet, the microphone won't open

and you'll just hear this sound in front of him.

So at the beginning of the song you'll only hear one track,

and if you'll solo that track at verse one, please?

# I...

# I will be king

See, there's no reverb on that.

# And you

# You will be queen... #

Stop. So verse four,

if you go to verse four, now he's working the middle mic

and the end mic.

ECHOING: # I!

# I will be king!

# And you!

# You will be queen... #

OK, take the solo off.

# Though nothing

# Will drive them away... #

We knew at that point that we had a great song.

In a minute, I think David says, "That'll do."

It's...

-BOWIE:

-Out by then.

"Out by then", he says.

Want to do it one more time?

Out by then.

TONY LAUGHS

That sums it up!

# And we could be heroes

# Just for one day... #

Legend has it that during these Berlin sessions, Brian Eno

heard a song that he proclaimed was "the sound of the future".

Produced by the legendary Giorgio Moroder, I Feel Love by Donna Summer

was indeed the song which ushered in a new electronic age for pop music.

I was hoping that people would think this is a song of the future.

It was totally different.

It was all electronic, every instrument is played

by the synthesiser, there is no human input

except Donna Summer's vocal.

Giorgio Moroder is a very interesting producer

because he helped develop almost another sonic sound.

That is the sound of the synthesiser having soul.

He was the first guy to really make pop records with synths.

He made the first sort of mechanical record that I heard

that I actually liked.

That contrast, it's like the beauty and the beast.

On one hand you have that absolutely electronic, mechanical track,

where everything is absolutely precise and absolutely perfect.

On the other hand there is this very human voice with Donna Summer.

# I feel love... #

That kind of romantic sound against that electronic, hard,

that gave that aura of having something new.

What I did is, for the bass, that was simple.

I just asked my engineer, "Give me a bass sound".

TWO BASS NOTES

And then I say, "OK, I need two more notes."

HE PLAYS "I FEEL LOVE" BASS RIFF

So I put a click down on the machine, on the 24-track

and then he played...

RIFF REPEATS

It was very easy. I would just play...

HE HUMS REPEATING BASS RIFF

SONG TAKES UP RIFF

He is absolutely a pioneer.

You cannot listen to I Feel Love and not be moved by it.

But it's machines making that music.

That's what's so clever.

And that record stands up to this day as a benchmark.

And bearing in mind, he didn't have the technology we have today.

Those were analogue synths - which we all love -

but synchronising those to a tape machine was quite complicated.

So that was brilliant, and his legacy has lasted.

At 75, Giorgio is still in demand as a producer.

His latest album, released in 2015, includes collaborations with

Kylie Minogue, Britney Spears and rising star Foxes.

MUSIC: I Feel Love

He was wondering if I had any tracks I wasn't using that he could use.

It was just a random track I'd written called Wildstar.

It was originally more just kind of like a ballad.

It was written on piano.

# I keep dancing in my dreams

# Here away into your arms... #

I have the advantage of being a producer and a composer

so when I go in the studio, I know the song in and out.

I have a very good concept of how the singer should do it.

# Glitter falls into the light

# And I'll be dancing like a wildstar... #

I mean, I didn't know what I was going to get back,

but when I got it back it was like, he's really, really,

it was like he'd just made it...come alive.

# Oh, oh, oh...

And really he made it into, like, this disco banger, which I just,

it wasn't written like that at all. It was quite an emotional song,

So it was wonderful that he could produce it and make it his own.

# Wildstar... #

Ha-ha! Thank you, Giorgio!

He still has that stamp,

like, that Giorgio Moroder stamp that you know is him.

# I love to love you, baby

# I... #

The Giorgio Moroder record that changed my life was

I Love to Love You Baby.

# I love to love you, baby...

We were still an R'n'B band.

We didn't know about sequencers and things like that.

I wanted to be a part of that world.

I wanted to try and figure out, "How can I do what they do?"

I dreamt a song called I Want Your Love

and I dreamt this song note for note, it's the only composition in

my whole life that what you hear on the record is exactly what I dreamt.

# I want your love

# I want your love... #

I was totally head-over-heels enthralled with

Giorgio Moroder's staccato synth.

I didn't know how you did that,

I didn't know that you could play a keyboard that tight.

So if you listen to my guitar part on I Want Your Love,

it's just going, "T-t-t-t-teh-teh".

# I'll be a peg

# I want your loving

# Please don't make me beg... #

I tried to imitate Giorgio Moroder

and it was that way in the dream, when there's...like a telegraph.

HE HUMS STACCATO RHYTHM

MUSIC: Good Times by Chic

This was all happening in the late '70s, when disco was king.

Our song, Good Times, had been a huge hit,

filling dancefloors across the globe, but back then we had no idea

it was being used in the streets to create a new musical genre.

You weren't worth your weight in salt

if you couldn't rap off of Good Times.

I mean, you could do a party in New York and throw Good Times on,

and anybody that could rap would get on the mic.

# Now what you hear is not a test, I'm rappin' to the beat

# And me, the groove, and my friends are gonna try to move your feet

# You see I am Wonder Mike and I'd like to say hello...

# ..to the black, to the white, the red and the brown,

-# the purple and...

-HE MUMBLES

-It had to begin.

-Ha-ha! Whoo!

It's always good that he goes first!

-Ladies, ladies...

-We don't want that one, do we?

-..keep your clothes on!

-People don't want me to go.

They never say, "Gee, give us...!"

No, my part don't come till the end!

# I said a M-A-S, a TER, a G with a double E

# I said I go by the unforgettable name of the man

# They call the Master Gee... #

Rapper's Delight was the brainchild of Sylvia Robinson.

She was the producer and co-founder of Sugarhill Records back in 1979.

I was at a disco, in New York, and I saw these guys

just talking on the microphones and music

and everybody was just going into a frenzy.

And I said to myself,

"If I put a concept like that on record,

"it'll be a smash."

Sylvia Robinson is unparalleled.

She was a female record producer

at a time when there were very few

and it would come as no surprise to many that there are very few today.

You can name them on one hand.

Sylvia Robinson is really important as being a female record producer

but also a visionary, having that vision.

So she singlehandedly, I would argue, with Sugarhill,

created a whole new genre.

She should have the title of The Mother of Hip-hop,

there's no question about that.

It was her conception, it was her vision, you know, she saw it.

I found one fella working in the pizza parlour

on Palisades Avenue here in Englewood, New Jersey.

Well, that fella in the pizza parlour, his name was,

that was Big Bank Hank.

OK, another fella was walking by with his friend,

and I didn't even know him.

He jumped in the car and his friend said,

"Ah, Hank is all right, but my man's vicious!"

That happened to be Master Gee.

And then I met "Wonder Mike".

# I said a hip hop, the hippie, the hippie to the hip hip a hop,

# And you don't stop the rock it... #

She said, "You know what?

"I'm not to going to choose between the three of you.

"The record's supposed to be for one person.

"I'll tell you what I'll do."

And she did like this - "I'll marry the three of you together

"and we'll make a record and you'll be a trio."

And that was a Friday night,

we went down there Monday night and cut the record.

The record's 15 minutes long.

-We did the, we did the vocals in 17 minutes.

-Yeah.

# You gotta try to move your feet... #

To hear someone reciting poetry, rhythmically,

over R'n'B tracks was like, it took the world by storm.

# Bang bang, the boogie to the boogie

# Say up jump the boogie to the bang bang boogie

# Let's rock, you don't stop

# Rock the rhythm that'll make your body rock

# Well, so far you've heard my voice

# But I brought two friends along

# And next on the mic is my man Hank

# C'mon, Hank, sing that song!

# Check it out... #

Before they recorded Rapper's Delight, there were no

visibly known rap songs on the market.

A month later, 30 rap records is on the market!

# You see, I got more clothes than Muhammad Ali

# And I dress so viciously... #

Sylvia was important because she came to the table with

a producer's mentality that was old-school.

Sylvia was basically about the music.

You had to play it, you had to play the music.

To me this was important because

someone actually played these riffs and the music sound full.

She was a genius. She could play the piano, she could write,

she had a great singing voice, she was an awesome producer.

I'm telling ya, all that - Apache, 8th Wonder, The Message,

all that stuff man, she was right there.

# It's like a jungle, sometimes it makes me wonder

# How I keep from going under

# It's like a jungle, sometimes it makes me wonder

# How I keep from going under... #

That's record's important because,

sonically, it sounded like nothing else.

There was no other record at the time that sounded like that.

The Message, to this day, is still one of those pioneering,

absolutely iconic songs, and you CAN use the word "iconic" on that.

That is a really, really important record.

# Junkies in the alley with the baseball bat...

Rapper's Delight was perfect rap-pop

but when Sylvia asked Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five

to record The Message, she created another landmark moment

in the evolution of rap - bringing social commentary to nascent hip-hop.

I think that The Message was important for music in general,

but we'll just talk about hip-hop for now.

I think that it gave rap a certain amount of legitimacy.

We gave hip-hop a avenue where it didn't necessarily have to be

about partying and having a good time.

You can rap about the human condition.

And that gave it a sea change.

Now, all of a sudden, you don't necessarily have to be frivolous.

You can make a statement and you can still sell records.

# Ha-ha-ha-ha, it's like a jungle, sometimes it makes me wonder

# How I keep from going under... #

I'd argue she created hip-hop

because she facilitated - another role of the record producer -

allowing artists the facility. She facilitated that.

It was simplistic and nobody else came up with it until she did.

And she was the one who had the vision to say,

"Hey, yo, you know something? This could be big."

And it was.

Rapper's Delight was the first rap single to reach the top 40,

ands it was also a first in the story of sampling,

one of the modern producer's greatest tools.

But the song it sampled was pretty familiar to me.

The first time I heard Rapper's Delight, I was in a club

in New York City Called Leviticus.

Almost as soon as I heard the bassline playing

I looked to my right and I could see the DJ.

I'm like, "Dude, what are you doing? Who's playing the records?

"Who's doing the rap?' And he said,

"Oh, Nile. I just picked this up today in Harlem, up on 125th Street.

"This is the hottest record in town!"

Then all of a sudden I heard my strings fall off.

I heard the "berng!"

And I went "Wait a minute! Those are my strings! That's..."

I knew that the other part wasn't me playing

but I could hear that those were my strings playing,

that they actually came from my record.

Now, there was no proper sampling device in those days,

so basically what they did was they had a DJ come into the studio

and scratch until they got it in sync with the track.

You know, so...

Doo-doo-doo-ew!

# Ya start doin' the freak,

# I said Damn!

# Right outta your seat... #

And I was like, "Wait a minute, now,

"that's serious copyright infringement.

"Let me look at that label."

And, of course, my name and Bernard Edwards' name was nowhere to be found

on that label.

Everybody knew that we had initiated a lawsuit and, erm...

So, four guys came to the studio, and they told us that they

were our friends and they were coming to help us out,

because we shouldn't go ahead with this lawsuit,

because, even if we win, this is a quote, even if we win, we'll lose.

We can't just let it go.

It's impossible, because why would a person stop

if they could just take our stuff without any kind of penalty.

We settled out of court.

And I think that, probably, was a situation where cooler heads

prevailed because sampling was a new thing,

but copyright infringement was not.

I guess we helped set the precedent for sampling to be recognised

and credited.

This was just as well, as in the next decade, technology would

enable sampling to play a major role in the new pop music landscape.

The most important thing that happened in the '80s was sampling.

You know, the idea of using samples

and using previously made recordings of things and manipulating them.

Producer Trevor Horn is credited with creating

the sound of the '80s, working with artists

like The Pet Shop Boys, Grace Jones and Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

# Money's all that you can score... #

# I heard you on the wireless back in '52... #

But it all began with his group, The Buggles.

# If I was young it didn't stop you coming through... #

Making that record was really the thing that got me started.

I don't think you can really be a producer

unless you had a hit record that you wrote, yourself.

I think that should be your, sort of, diploma,

like a dentist has a diploma.

# Video killed the radio star... #

With a number one hit in the bag, Trevor got on with

the job of producing and was really the first to take full advantage

of what you could do with sampling.

We can do anything with sound.

We can do anything...

-SLOWED DOWN

-..with sound, with sound, with sound.

I suppose an early example of what you could do with samples

would be a song like Give Me Back My Heart by Dollar.

Instead of Theresa singing her vocals in the normal way,

we sampled her.

# La-la-la-la... #

All played from a keyboard. This amazing sound.

It was definitely a moment.

# La-la-la... #

You knew you were hearing something for the first time

that was going to become part of the sound of everything.

# So give me back my heart

# That's all I have to live for... #

The cliche of the '80s, it's that it's all about money

and shoulder pads and the '80s is a very, very experimental time,

as you can see in Trevor Horn's records, that are massive hits.

He did just crazy, bananas things that were just impossible.

You listen to stuff that he'd made and it was like taking drugs.

You know, I felt like I could see stuff when I, when I,

listened to stuff that he'd done.

I found it very inspiring.

The picture that I had in my head

for what a pop record should sound like,

and I know that this might sound it odd,

but my blueprint was the idea of Kraftwerk...

# Charging our battery... #

..meets Vince Hill.

# Edelweiss... #

-Kraftwerk...

-# Now we're full of energy... #

..meets Vince Hill.

# Edelweiss... #

..but with machines.

Ladies and gentlemen, Miss Grace Jones.

Slave To The Rhythm.

That was what really interested me.

To try and make a new kind of record,

that people would accept as a pop record, but was completely

different to what had passed as a mainstream pop record before.

Trevor had made our favourite record

which was Slave To The Rhythm by Grace Jones.

The Pet Shop Boys wanted a bit of that Trevor Horn sound,

and so he brought his pop orchestration to their next single.

Yeah, it was funny, that song, Left To My Own Devices,

because it was, sort of, two-thirds formed when we first got it.

Trevor took our demo.

He just makes it more dramatic, bigger and better.

I get out of bed at half past ten,

phone up a friend who's a party animal.

The idea was that it was an incredibly mundane explanation

of a day in someone's life.

The music reveals the emotion behind the apparently mundane life,

which isn't really mundane, at all.

And so Trevor said, "We've got to have an orchestra on this."

It was the first time the Pet Shop Boys

had ever used an orchestra.

It was a 50-piece orchestra in Abbey Road.

Worked out really well.

The orchestral arrangement is so you feel the drama

and the emotion behind the apparently mundane.

# Left to my own devices... #

Since that album, most of our albums had an orchestra on them.

You've got a Trevor Horn moment. You've got your money's worth!

That's what you paid him for.

We would never in a million years have thought of that.

Trevor Horn brought pop into the computer age, but, for me,

the '80s wasn't just about sequencing and sampling.

I mixed my tried and tested technique of using live bands

in the recording studio as well!

This is an approach I used to bring a different vibe

to Madonna's album, Like A Virgin.

# I made it through the wilderness

# Somehow I made it through

# Didn't know how lost I was... #

I said to her, "If we sequence it, anybody can copy your record,

"anybody can sound like that.

"But if we play it, only we can sound like that."

# Like a virgin

# When your heart beats next to mine... #

And it works.

It's a question of wanting it to feel more soulful.

In other words, to sound like a band played her record,

not like a producer just produced her record.

# Let's dance

# Put on your red shoes and dance the blues... #

It was a really busy time for me.

I produced Let's Dance with David Bowie, Original Sin with INXS

and began a long term relationship with Duran Duran, producing

a remix of their song, The Reflex.

-# And watching over lucky clover...

-#

The Reflex, which was a song we'd written on the third album,

which we all felt was... We all felt it was a commercial-sounding song,

but we just didn't have it quite right.

There was a feeling that we could adjust it a little and get it right

and that's when we thought Nile might be the man to do it.

# The reflex is an only child... #

They called me up and they said,

"Hey Nile, could you remix this for us?"

So I said, "OK, you can call it a remix if you like,

"but I'm going to re-produce this.

"I'm going to do what I would've done, had I been with you guys

"when you first wrote this. I'm going to make it sound like, you know..."

# The reflex la-la-la-la

# The reflex fle-fle-fle-fle-flex

# You've gone too far this time

# But I'm dancing on the... #

That's how I hear it. What do you guys think?

You know, and they went "Wow! This is amazing!"

# Somebody's fooling around

# With my chances on the danger line... #

My relationship with Duran Duran is probably one of the most

emotional and powerful in the music business, for me.

They feel like...the same way I feel about your family.

You know, it's like I have my band and my little brother has a band,

and this is my little brother's band

and every now and then my little brother lets me play in his band

and I love it too.

I feel like I'm a member of Duran Duran.

They just don't give me any credit.

The Duran Duran family recently extended to include Mark Ronson,

who co-produced their latest album Paper Gods with me in 2015.

Mark is typical of the new breed of producers who are now

becoming stars in their own right.

MUSIC: Uptown Funk By Mark Ronson ft Bruno Mars

Uptown Funk is the number one single by Mark Ronson FEATURING Bruno Mars.

Note whose name comes first!

No longer are producers confined to the studio,

they're now centre stage.

It's nice and it's gratifying to see your name on the front of the thing

in the charts, but I never started making music

because I wanted to be in the limelight.

I never said, like, "Oh, this is why I want to do this,

"because I want to be on stage playing guitar, like."

I'm terrified standing on stage playing guitar, or DJing.

My happy place is being in the studio, making music,

recording musicians, recording singers, writing songs.

But somewhere along the line, my life took, kind of,

a bit of a weird turn.

You know, it also puts a little more pressure on you because that record

comes out and that's your name on front, so if it stiffs, it's you.

# Uptown Funk you up

# Uptown Funk you up... #

I think that as pop music really went through

the '90s and early 2000s, especially with the emergence of

hip-hop and R'n'B and, like, these producers

like Pharrell and Timbaland and people you could really, like,...

You just knew if they did something,

it was going to be of a certain quality.

# Get your freak on

# Get your freak on... #

As a fan of music, my quality control is, like...

"Ah, Pharrell did that, I'm going to pick that up and check it out."

So, of course, if Pharrell goes on to make an album, I'm going to check

that out too, N.E.R.D, the Neptunes, whoever it was.

Check it out

Check it out, girl.

And then, obviously, you had, obviously,

the emergence of superstar DJ culture and especially

when it hit the mainstream in the last six or seven years,

so most of the producers that we talk about now

are really DJ producers.

There are very few producers out there, kind of,

producer-driven records that are not fronted by people that are also DJs

and that's because these people already have a massive audience.

# I like the dirty rhythm you play... #

I don't know that it's any more important that the DJ's name

is on the front of the song.

That it says Calvin Harris featuring Rihanna, or it's just

a Rihanna song or it says David Guetta, featuring Nicki Minaj,

or it's just a Nicki Minaj song.

# I want to hear you calling my name... #

Or it's me featuring Bruno Mars, or it's just a Bruno Mars song.

So, today, the producer has become the star,

but cheap and easy access to technology has also democratised music.

When I started out, you needed a studio to record.

And that was expensive!

Now, you can download software to your laptop

and be making music in minutes.

Anyone can do it!

If you have the right ideas.

I guess one of the things as a producer,

you're always afraid of being left behind by these new kids who

have infinite amounts of free time and new ideas.

And I've got some guys who work with me from time to time, who are those

laptop kids who show up and you give them something and they come back

with a finished track 20 minutes later and you're like...

It's almost a dream for musicians, because,

with very little money, you have a little studio at home.

You can have the millions of sounds, they are all great,

you just need a microphone, a keyboard and a laptop, actually.

In that sense, it's a great time for music.

British brothers Disclosure are a great example of this new wave.

They started out producing their own records at home

and now headline festivals.

I've worked with them recently

and they are truly at the cutting edge,

bringing house music back into the mainstream.

Music is constantly evolving and musicians and producers will continue

to push sonic boundaries in the constant search for new sounds.

The mystery of turning an idea into an actual real composition,

into a real performance, and getting those special moments

out of each person who's involved in the production,

is the most thrilling adventure I could ever imagine.

Producers have changed music in beautiful, unexpected

and fundamental ways and in doing so have created whole new pop genres.

So to all the new young producers out there, freak out,

and always remember, press the record button!