The Interrogators Our World


The Interrogators

Similar Content

Browse content similar to The Interrogators. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

military commission. We examine the history of their capture and

:00:01.:00:07.

imprisonment. Viewers may find some of the images distressing.

:00:07.:00:12.

Waterboarding, that is a simulated drowning, was one of the most

:00:12.:00:17.

controversial aspects on the war of terror for America. It was carried

:00:17.:00:24.

out by the CIA and video. Jose Rodriguez was the man who ran BCA's

:00:24.:00:29.

top secret programme in the years immediately after SEP- 11, when

:00:29.:00:36.

fears of a second strike were all too real. -- the CIA. When you are

:00:36.:00:46.
:00:46.:00:48.

waterboarding anyone or use these techniques, it is an honest example.

:00:48.:00:57.

We can now reveal what is on these videos. Was he see? He was not. He

:00:57.:01:07.
:01:07.:01:29.

was experiencing some physical America's detention centre in

:01:29.:01:35.

Guantanamo Bay, Cuba has become synonymous with torture and the

:01:35.:01:39.

abuses of the war on terror. President Barack Obama promised to

:01:39.:01:46.

shut it down, but has been unable to do so. Instead, he is using

:01:46.:01:53.

Guantanamo Bay as a site for a military tribunal to try Khalid

:01:53.:01:59.

Sheikh Mohammed, and four of his co-conspirators. Torture will

:01:59.:02:05.

become one of the most contentious issues at the trial. The 9/11

:02:05.:02:09.

defendants cases are important terrorism cases of all time. BT is

:02:09.:02:16.

critically important for the public to know what happens, for the truth,

:02:16.:02:24.

however Ardley, to come out -- at is critically. -- however ugly.

:02:24.:02:29.

Today, the painful memories of 9/11 are reflected in a memorial garden

:02:29.:02:34.

at the site where the twin towers once stood. President Barack Obama

:02:34.:02:39.

always wanted Abu Zubaydah to be tried in the dock, the sights of

:02:39.:02:45.

the atrocities that he masterminded on SEP- 11 -- Australian. The

:02:45.:02:50.

Preston had to back down after fierce opposition from the Congress

:02:50.:02:55.

-- Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. The trouser nabbing her that Guantanamo

:02:55.:03:05.
:03:05.:03:06.

Bay. -- the trials are now being held at. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was

:03:06.:03:12.

also involved in other attacks. He was an evil man. He was one of the

:03:12.:03:17.

most evil man that I had ever come across. He was seeking different

:03:17.:03:23.

ways of trying to kill us. And to kill awry lies. Khalid Sheikh

:03:23.:03:28.

Mohammed has admitted to having planned and executed the attacks of

:03:28.:03:32.

11th September. He also admitted that he personally be added the

:03:32.:03:39.

American journalist Daniel Pearl five months after 9/11. He was

:03:39.:03:43.

iconic on the organisation, not just for his role in 9/11, but for

:03:43.:03:50.

his role in Al-Qaeda. For months, the CIA knew nothing about Khalid

:03:50.:03:56.

Sheikh Mohammed, he was just a name on the intelligence database. Well

:03:56.:04:00.

they knew was that the plan of 9/11 was known as Mukhtar, the chosen

:04:00.:04:09.

one. The interrogation was to unlock his true identity. In the

:04:09.:04:13.

months after 9/11, the White House was determined to do all it could

:04:13.:04:18.

to prevent another attack. It took an unprecedented step. It

:04:18.:04:22.

authorised the CIA to use aggressive and highly controversial

:04:23.:04:27.

techniques at its sites. These and hence in interrogation techniques

:04:27.:04:37.
:04:37.:04:45.

were designed to break the suspects. Abu Zubaydah was the person they

:04:45.:04:51.

tested it on. He knew a lot about the funding and leadership of Al-

:04:51.:05:01.
:05:01.:05:05.

Qaeda. He was a senior Al-Qaeda figure. He was very smart.

:05:05.:05:09.

Zubaydah was captured in Pakistan's six months after 9/11, following a

:05:09.:05:15.

fierce gun battle in which she was seriously wounded. He was then

:05:15.:05:19.

granted to a secret CIA interrogation centre, known as a

:05:19.:05:24.

black sight. It is believed to be in Thailand. He was initially it

:05:24.:05:30.

into the by FBI agents who never laid a finger on him. Using non-

:05:31.:05:34.

violent interrogation techniques, they got him to deliver the Crown

:05:34.:05:44.
:05:44.:05:45.

Jewels. The identity of the mastermind of 9/11. When Khalid

:05:45.:05:54.

Sheikh Mohammed's photo came up, Abu Zubaydah grabs me. I wondered

:05:54.:06:04.
:06:04.:06:05.

if he was playing a game with me. He said that that was Mukhtar. His

:06:05.:06:12.

name had been in the chatter, but we did not know what his name was.

:06:12.:06:15.

The CAA decided that Abu Zubaydah was not giving enough, and a

:06:16.:06:21.

decision was made to activate enhanced interrogation techniques.

:06:21.:06:28.

We were dead in the water. He was shut down and we needed to come up

:06:28.:06:35.

with alternative techniques that would convince the terraced that he

:06:35.:06:41.

-- the terrorist that he had no control over the situation. His

:06:41.:06:50.

fate was in our hands. PCR a's top lawyer believed it was essential to

:06:50.:06:53.

have be secret techniques authorised at the price level --

:06:53.:07:03.
:07:03.:07:05.

the CIA. I made this decision to make sure we were not going to

:07:05.:07:11.

conduct these kinds of Unprecedented activities without

:07:11.:07:16.

the fall and complete legal policy and approval of the highest levels

:07:16.:07:25.

of the Bush administration. confinement box like a dog kennel

:07:25.:07:29.

was constructed. Abu Zubaydah was shut inside in total darkness for

:07:29.:07:39.

hours on end. He was subjected to the most extreme techniques, being

:07:39.:07:45.

waterboarded 83 times. US government lawyers claim that it's,

:07:45.:07:49.

like other techniques, was lawful because the pain and suffering was

:07:49.:07:59.
:07:59.:07:59.

not so be it. A top secret memo to John Reserve from the department of

:07:59.:08:02.

justice describe the process in chillingly mundane detail -- John

:08:02.:08:12.
:08:12.:08:23.

Reza OP -- so the hour. -- John Rizzo, severe. It reduces the

:08:23.:08:29.

perception of drowning. captivity of Abu Zubaydah was

:08:29.:08:33.

required either 92 videotapes. Some showing him undergoing the

:08:33.:08:38.

techniques in graphic detail. Do you regard them as torture? I do

:08:38.:08:43.

not. I think they fit any definition that anyone has of

:08:43.:08:50.

torture. They have physical and emotional pain that was inflicted -

:08:50.:08:57.

- I do believe they were tortured. They are abhorrent and

:08:57.:09:04.

reprehensible. A year after his capture, the CIA finally closed in

:09:04.:09:10.

on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. In 2003, he was captain Pakistani its loan

:09:10.:09:18.

to a secret black sight for interrogation. There ought to be in

:09:18.:09:28.
:09:28.:09:31.

pollen -- he was captured in Pakistan's and taken to a secret. -

:09:31.:09:39.

- the third to be in Poland. He was deprived of sleep for three weeks

:09:39.:09:46.

and lives in a nappy and was naked. What is the effect of depriving

:09:46.:09:52.

someone of sleep for seven days, naked and wearing only a nappy?

:09:52.:09:56.

think they become vulnerable and they recognise that their condition

:09:56.:10:03.

is one they want to work for Leeds and it is best to co-operate with

:10:03.:10:13.
:10:13.:10:15.

us -- one they want to avoid. was waterboarded 183 times. Khalid

:10:15.:10:22.

Sheikh Mohammed was not waterboarded 183 times. He had won

:10:22.:10:31.

hard and 83 applications of water. That only lasted ten seconds -- 183

:10:31.:10:40.

applications. It amounted to less than 60 minutes. Isn't that an

:10:40.:10:47.

extreme infliction of suffering? Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would start

:10:47.:10:53.

counting with fingers on his hands to let us know that the ten seconds

:10:53.:10:58.

was about to come up, because he knew that usually that's when it

:10:58.:11:03.

stopped. That does not sound like a man who was concerned about dying.

:11:03.:11:13.

Does it? I did not anticipate that the waterboarding would be used.

:11:13.:11:19.

Especially as often as it was. After several weeks, Khalid Sheikh

:11:19.:11:24.

Mohammed finally reached breaking- point and started to talk.

:11:24.:11:29.

terrorists have huge egos, they cannot wait to tell you how smart

:11:29.:11:35.

they are, how capable they are, how evil they are. At some point, they

:11:35.:11:42.

give it up. In his case, when he gave it up, he would not stop

:11:42.:11:48.

talking. If, as a result of the application of these techniques,

:11:48.:11:52.

lives, perhaps many lives were saved, it doesn't the end justified

:11:52.:11:59.

the means? Torture is universally abhorred, it is banned under

:11:59.:12:02.

international law and it is banned by domestic law within the United

:12:02.:12:11.

knew what was happening to our detainees. When I drove prime every

:12:11.:12:17.

night I wondered whether this was the direction we had to go. Then I

:12:17.:12:20.

saw the fallen faces in the New York Times and the detailed reports

:12:21.:12:25.

that helped us to prevent plots. I thought they would be a child

:12:25.:12:35.
:12:35.:12:38.

growing up in New York or Los Jose Rodriguez and the CIA insist

:12:38.:12:45.

that the techniques work. It included confirmation of the Korea

:12:45.:12:51.

who eventually led the CRA to Osama Bin Laden's hideout in the heart of

:12:51.:13:01.
:13:01.:13:03.

Pakistan. We intercepted a message. He was told to not tell them

:13:03.:13:09.

anything about the career. He gave us a lot of information that fall-

:13:09.:13:17.

out us to take down a lot of terrorists. Ms Khalid Sheikh

:13:17.:13:21.

Mohammed also talked about a plot to attack Heathrow Airport and

:13:21.:13:30.

Canary Wharf. It was to be masterminded by his co-accused.

:13:30.:13:36.

was the person who was going to be in charge of this operation. Khalid

:13:36.:13:40.

Sheikh Mohammed confirmed everything that we had been told.

:13:40.:13:50.
:13:50.:13:51.

The plan was to hijack aeroplanes out of Eastern Europe. They had

:13:51.:13:53.

looked over a certain air force that they considered to have little

:13:54.:14:02.

security. They were going to hijack these in a similar plot to a 9/11

:14:02.:14:08.

and fly them into Heathrow Airport. But the use of the secret

:14:08.:14:15.

techniques subsequently produced an explosive fall-out. 12 of the tapes

:14:15.:14:25.

showed a prisoners being subjected to the techniques. Jose Rodriguez

:14:25.:14:29.

decided to stop any future recordings. They were locked away

:14:29.:14:35.

for three years. When news of the side slit doubt, Rodriguez decided

:14:35.:14:43.

to destroy them. Why did you decide to destroy these tapes? I did it to

:14:43.:14:48.

protect the officers whose faces were shown in interrogations.

:14:48.:14:58.
:14:58.:14:59.

that the only reason? Yes. Our lawyer has said that it was illegal.

:14:59.:15:09.
:15:09.:15:10.

I was angry. I was also a bit hurt. I made it clear to them that he did

:15:10.:15:18.

not have the authority. It was not his call to destroy those tapes.

:15:18.:15:26.

he disobeyed orders? Yes. Up until now, what was on the tapes has

:15:26.:15:31.

remained a closely guarded secret. But it is a secret no more. I

:15:31.:15:36.

understand they show that a man vomiting and screaming as he was

:15:37.:15:45.

being water awarded. What do the tapes show about his reaction?

:15:45.:15:55.
:15:55.:15:58.

not know about the reaction. you see those tapes? I did not.

:15:58.:16:02.

Rodriguez says his interrogators insist there was no vomiting or

:16:02.:16:11.

screaming. John Rizzo sent a s t r a lawyer to watch all 92 tapes. --

:16:11.:16:18.

A CIA it lawyer. He confirmed they were in concordance with the

:16:18.:16:26.

guidelines. But he was disturbed by a reaction. They were

:16:26.:16:34.

extraordinarily hard to watch. did they show? I am not going to

:16:34.:16:44.
:16:44.:16:47.

get into specifics. He was reacting visibly in a very disturbing way.

:16:47.:16:56.

Was he being sick? He was experiencing some physical

:16:56.:17:04.

difficulties. I will leave it at that. Was he screaming? That I do

:17:05.:17:12.

not know. But not easy to watch. told me they were very hard to

:17:12.:17:22.
:17:22.:17:29.

watch. I understand that the tape or tapes show him for vomiting and

:17:29.:17:37.

screaming. I do not know where you got that wrong. I did not know that.

:17:37.:17:41.

Two days after the Tate's destruction, there was a secret

:17:41.:17:47.

memorandum. It suggests that projecting their identities of the

:17:47.:17:54.

interrogators was not his only concern. The heat from destroying

:17:54.:17:58.

is nothing compared to what it would be if the tapes ever got into

:17:58.:18:02.

the public domain. He said that out of context they would make us look

:18:02.:18:09.

terrible. You must have been aware of what they showed in order for

:18:09.:18:15.

you to believe that the effect would be devastating. He is not a

:18:15.:18:22.

pretty sight. When you are using these techniques. And the screaming

:18:23.:18:28.

and vomiting? I do not know about swimming and vomiting. But it is

:18:28.:18:35.

not a pretty sight. But you said that if they were viewed in the

:18:35.:18:41.

public it would look terrible. course they said that. If you are

:18:41.:18:46.

waterboarding somebody and they are naked, of course. That was a

:18:46.:18:53.

concern of mine. Defence lawyers will raise these issues at the

:18:53.:19:01.

trial before the military tribunal at Guantanamo. But the defence may

:19:01.:19:07.

not get a very fine forcing disclosure of the evidence.

:19:08.:19:11.

rules of the conditions are set up to commit the Government to hide

:19:11.:19:16.

the evidence of the torture to which the defendants were subjected.

:19:16.:19:24.

The air is a great deal of -- there is a great deal of scepticism from

:19:24.:19:34.
:19:34.:19:37.

the lawyers about the fairness of these. Why should you care. I think

:19:37.:19:45.

he's care because you want to say that you are different. -- you care.

:19:45.:19:49.

Your country acts under a legal and moral compass. And when you let it

:19:49.:19:57.

go, it goes. The trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, whose plot for

:19:57.:20:07.
:20:07.:20:07.

down the Twin Towers, may last for years. Do you regret anything you

:20:07.:20:15.

did for authorised? I do not regret anything. I was honoured to surf

:20:15.:20:24.

country. -- so if my country. I am proud of the decisions that I took.

:20:24.:20:28.

Including the destruction of the tapes to protect the people who

:20:28.:20:38.
:20:38.:20:39.

worked for me. However long the trial lasts, there will be a

:20:39.:20:42.

verdict at the end. It Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his co-accused

:20:42.:20:50.

are found guilty, they will face the death penalty. In the US,

:20:50.:20:54.

someone who has killed 3,000 people would probably have to pay with his

:20:54.:21:04.
:21:04.:21:06.

wife. In his case, I would want him to rot in jail. To test his

:21:06.:21:14.

religious beliefs by spending about 40 years in a prison in Guantanamo.

:21:14.:21:20.

He wind which are not want to see him executed? I do not want him to

:21:20.:21:29.

be the martyr he wants to be. trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

:21:29.:21:38.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS