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Mugabe at 90

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interview with resident Robert Mugabe follows `` president. Opinion

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on his legacy remains incredibly divided. In Zimbabwe, birthday

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celebrations are under way for Africa's oldest and longest`serving

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leader. Once the darling of the West, today Robert Mugabe is

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considered a pariah. He has been accused of ethnic cleansing and

:00:29.:00:30.

brutally suppressing the opposition. Most famously, he is

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said to have ruined the economy with his disastrous land grabbing. But

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among many Africans, he is seen in a different light. At home he still

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appears popular. He is steadfast, his message never changes. He is a

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revolutionary. As he celebrates his 90th birth day, I have been given

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rare access to a president that the West loves to hate. I was able to

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get his story and to challenge his views on the West. Rule Britannia,

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which world do they rule? Gone! I am a British born Ghanian. I grew up

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watching reports of African leaders and at school in the UK, it was

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tough being the African kit. But there was one leader who seemed

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different. Robert Mugabe was an eloquent, charming leader with a

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British air about him. He made me proud to be an African. And for the

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British, he was the role model for postcolonial leaders. But when

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Zimbabwe's crashed economically in 2008 I went to discover how this

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hero had become a villain. My request was finally granted after

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months of asking. An exclusive interview, the first for the BBC in

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14 years. A few days later, the call came from Statehouse. I wanted to

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know if he was worried about his international reputation. Does it

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bother you that the West views you as one of the worst villains of

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modern history? It doesn't bother me at all. He West is not objective.

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Far from it. We have seen how the West comes to its judgments and

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after all, there appears to be a kind of overall dementia affecting

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the mind of the West. To understand that, consider things from his point

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of view. Rhodesia as Zimbabwe was known until independence was

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Britain's last colony in Africa. White European settlers held power

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and the indigenous population was kept firmly in check. The white

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settlers owned the land and made a comfortable living from farming.

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Blacks were restricted to less fertile land and denied a political

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voice. Mugabe was the leader of a political party called Zanu. For

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years they fought against the white minority government and finally in

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1979, Britain intervened and helped to bring an end to the war with the

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Lancaster House talks. The final agreement gave them the vote, but

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they could only buy land from whites willing to sell. Thousands of your

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comrades died during the liberation struggle, attempting to reclaim

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their land. But you signed up to an agreement drafted by the British

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which allowed the whites to keep the land and there is a sense of

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betrayal in that. It was a tactical move. We had to make a move

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forward. The front line states were seen in the sense that once you had

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power, everything else that remains undone here, you will be able to

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do. But this voluntary land reform agreement, funded by the British

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only lasted until 1990. Almost no land changed hands. It was not until

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1997 that land distribution was reviewed. In the 1990s when you were

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awarded a knighthood by England and honorary degrees from around the

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world, yet in Zimbabwe, lock people remained without land so some might

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say that you were rewarded for protecting white interests and

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British interests in the country. You are wrong to say that the people

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remained without land. From the first day we started the process of

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appropriating land and we had programmes in place. On the basis of

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what I was doing, regarding the British, it was on the basis of my

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dedication to the freedom of my country and the independence of my

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country by and large. The cozy relationship between Mugabe and

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Britain ended in 1997 when the Labour Party came into power. They

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refused to continue paying for land redistribution in Zimbabwe. When you

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had these ruffians coming into power, wanting to reinvest the

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entire process, finally I told them, there is no obligation by Britain at

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all. Britain has no obligation to former colonies. Inside Zimbabwe,

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the pressure for land reform had reached boiling point. Former

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soldiers who had warned Mugabe not to trust the law now took it into

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their own hands. White owned farms were invaded. Mugabe reacted by

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amending the Constitution, giving the government the right to seize

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land without compensation. The West imposed sanctions. Zimbabwe was

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subsequently suspended from the Commonwealth. So, Tony Blair, keep

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your England and let me keep my Zimbabwe. The isolation had a

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devastating impact on the economy. Food and fuel became scarce. Land

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reform forced the closure of or,000 companies. `` 4000. It was

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represented as merely displacing white farmers, but they never acted

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on it and we are now the poorest African country `` one of the

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poorest. Many who leave school can never find work here. But there is

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one industry that continues to thrive. Tobacco was once the

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backbone of white commerce in Zimbabwe and today it is black

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farmers were profiting. `` who are. In comparison to the late 90s, it is

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a complete shift. We now have the situation where the small`scale

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growers are the majority and it is a good feeling because the majority of

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the people no longer have to compete against or,000 commercial growers.

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`` 4000. Now we have 90,000 individual farmers taking home money

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in their pockets. It is a beautiful thing. I have to graduate here ``

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two graduates here, my children from growing tobacco. I have five

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hectares of my own, allowing things `` ploughinh on my own. So I am

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happy. The country that was known as the breadbasket of Africa has now

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been reduced importing food. The success of the land reform programme

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should not be measured in terms of how much tobacco is taken to

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Yorkshire floors. We cannot continue to import food at a higher cost than

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we pay local farmers. It is an embarrassing scandal. What you say

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to? I know he is right. But they do not totally agree. `` I. We will

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have to adopt some law or regulation that compels commercial farmers to

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devote a portion of their land to growing maize for food. It's

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unnecessary because people are eating lots Greens now. There are

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reports that new black farmers are now leasing land back to formal

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white, commercial farmers. Do you feel let down by that? There are

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some labourers who are letting us down but... Whatever the numbers,

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they still worry us because that practice must cease. Since

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independence, three quarters of white Zimbabweans have left the

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country. But what surprised me after all I had seen about ZANU PF on

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British television is that the party has some white members. At a

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birthday celebration organised by ZANU PF's youth movement, I met

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Joshua, descended from three generations of white Zimbabweans. He

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is a diehard Mugabe supporter. I'm very African. I'm born in Africa. My

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parents were born in Africa, my grandparents were born in Africa.

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I'm African. It's not about the colour of your skin but what you

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think. That's important. ZANU PF is not racist. The farm and land reform

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was not racist. It was down to sort out a colonial imbalance. Mugabe was

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educated by white missionaries, who once had tremendous respect for

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Britain `` he once had tremendous respect for Britain. To the British,

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we don't hate you. We only love our country. We love ourselves better

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than we love you. What has happened to Britain? Is it their education?

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Is it their tradition? They have grown small in mind, small in

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intellect. Ideology gone. That wisdom which the likes of Churchill

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had. You don't see it at all. You cannot see it in people now with gay

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habits. Shame on them. IPP them. The one lady I admire is the Queen. But

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she is in exceptional circumstances, I'm sure. The loss of

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values in Britain. They go to drugs. No respect. Countries don't respect

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them any more. Rule Britannia. Britannia ruled the world. Which

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world? Gone. Gabi is currently vice`chairman of the African Union.

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Next year, he could be the chairman. `` Robert Mugabe is

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currently the vice`chairman of the African Union. Although ostracised

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in the West, in Africa, Mugabe is treated with respect by his fellow

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heads of state. Many of these leaders face same problems. Top of

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the list is how to get the most out of their natural resources. Zimbabwe

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hit the jackpot in 2007 it discovered the world's largest

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diamond field in over 100 years. The problem is that the wealth does not

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seem to be trickling down. At a ceremony last year, you said the

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mining sector would be the centrepiece of our economic recovery

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and will be night the economic miracle that must happen. But

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unfortunately, it is not happening, Your Excellency. The wealth from the

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Diamond has not been created yet. It takes time. Recently, you sold

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300,000 carats. But after how long? The process is taking a long, long

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period to get those carrots. The raw diamonds are going out. They could

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be cut and polished here, which creates jobs. We have just started.

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What is clear from the time I have spent in Zimbabwe is that corruption

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is widespread. Chief executives of some state`owned enterprises, known

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as Paris Staples, are accused of paying themselves massively inflated

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salaries. `` known as parastatals. There is anger in Zimbabwe at these

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obscene salaries that chief executives of state companies are

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making. In some cases, 600,000 US dollars per month, while people were

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three jobs to put $1 on the table. It's totally immoral. I'm engaging

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4000 just now. This is what we decided, that we pursued. We have

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tough times at the moment. All the parastatals now, we are discussing

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them, and one by one, we will go through them all and see what they

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are paying to their management. It is the management that has been

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benefiting in most of these cases. Accusations of electoral fraud have

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also dogged Mugabe for many years, most famously in 2008, when he lost

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the first round of the presidential election to the opposition leader,

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Morgan Chang the right. In March, 2008, Mugabe was beaten by

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Tsvangirai in the election. Tsvangirai has beaten Mugabe

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before. The elections in Zimbabwe have been characterised by force, by

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fraud and so on. Right now, the abuse of human rights is now more

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subtle. It is more instead of open violence, we have intimidation. We

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have undue influence. We have deep division of facilities ``

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deprivation of utilities like food aid and utilities to people who are

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not like vanity. But in spite of charges against him, Mugabe is

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adamant his Zimbabwe is a genuine democracy. Whatever leadership we

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have in the future, it must be leadership that derives from the

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people, chosen by the people. It goes back to the people. It listens

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to the people. It is guided by the interests of the people. That way,

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will stop any other way, we go into will stop any other way, we go into

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the dustbin and people will throw us out. Despite complaints of vote

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rigging from the opposition, last year, Mugabe was re`elected as

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president. Both the African Union and regional election of servers

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said that although not perfect, the results did express the will of the

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people. `` regional election observers. The VIPs of Africa have

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come to a family occasion. President is past and present are here for the

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wedding of Mugabe's daughter. In the West, he may be seen as a pariah.

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After years of predicting his demise, at 90, Mugabe seems to have

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proven them wrong. He never thought he would with his eyes see this

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day. The big question now is who will take over in Zimbabwe when he

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finally does go? Do you have someone in mind in your head? I have people

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in mind who would want to be but I have looked at them and I have not

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come to any conclusion as to which one really should be. I leave it to

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the choice of the people. Perhaps when we get to the election I will

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have someone in mind. Perhaps Mugabe is hinting that he has fought his

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last election. He clearly believes his whole life has been about

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redressing the political and economic imbalances he was born

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into. Even at his private birthday party, you cannot leave the issue

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alone. Never, never, never shall we once again make the mistake of

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allowing our resources, natural resources, to be owned by

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foreigners. Never. He is one of a dying breed, a generation of

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liberation fighters who devoted their life to trying to change the

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destiny of their country, there are people and their relationship with

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their former colonial masters. I don't know what will be people think

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my legacy is, but it is just the principles we fought for. The

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freedom, independence of our country, the rights of all our

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people for ownership of all of our resources. That wealth must benefits

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our people by and large. And our people by and large means the

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grassroots. A change in the wind direction on

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Good Friday brought some winners and losers, temperature wise. The losers

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were in the east of England. Kent was 19 degrees on Thursday but

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temperatures dropped overnight by six degrees on Good Friday, and

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there was

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