Browse content similar to Thailand's Asylum Crackdown. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
I just started screaming and crying, and telling them not to shoot me. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
And so he shot the girl, he shot her in the head in front of me. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:22 | |
The subjects were not only going on a rampage, but they were going | 0:00:22 | 0:00:25 | |
to destroy the school. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:26 | |
The Columbine High School massacre had a seismic impact upon America. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:34 | |
13 people died and 24 others were injured before the two killers | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
turned their guns on themselves. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:40 | |
I have to take this moment once again | 0:00:40 | 0:00:44 | |
to hammer home to all the children of America that violence is wrong. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
The actions of teenagers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold made Columbine | 0:00:47 | 0:00:52 | |
a byword for the phenomenon of school shootings, | 0:00:52 | 0:00:55 | |
that terrible day often cited as an inspiration for other attacks. | 0:00:55 | 0:00:59 | |
In the aftermath of the tragedy, the parents of the two killers came | 0:00:59 | 0:01:03 | |
in for fierce criticism. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
People asked, how could they not have known? | 0:01:06 | 0:01:08 | |
How could they have missed the signs? | 0:01:08 | 0:01:11 | |
Now, after 17 years, the mother of one of the two killers | 0:01:11 | 0:01:14 | |
has broken her silence. | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
The guilt I feel even loving Dylan, or feeling that way about him, | 0:01:17 | 0:01:23 | |
knowing what he did and how he hurt other people... | 0:01:23 | 0:01:27 | |
For 17 years, Dylan Klebold's mother Sue has been trying to understand | 0:01:28 | 0:01:31 | |
what drove her son to kill. | 0:01:31 | 0:01:43 | |
I felt that by sharing this story it might help somebody. | 0:01:43 | 0:01:50 | |
It might give them an opportunity to view their own | 0:01:50 | 0:01:52 | |
families, their own children, differently, and see things | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
in a way that I was unable to see. | 0:01:54 | 0:01:59 | |
What kind of child was he? | 0:01:59 | 0:02:02 | |
He was a cherub, he was precocious, he was extremely bright, playful, | 0:02:02 | 0:02:07 | |
loving, thick, long hair, like a mane, and just a happy, | 0:02:07 | 0:02:13 | |
engaged, engaging child. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:21 | |
In the book you say that when Dylan was born you had a premonition that | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
something awful was going to happen. | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
It was the strangest thing, and I have never in my life had | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
anything happen like that. | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
When Dylan was an infant, he was newborn and I was in the hospital, | 0:02:33 | 0:02:36 | |
and I was holding him in my arms, and I had a sudden feeling. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
It was - all I can think of, it was like a bird of prey had | 0:02:40 | 0:02:44 | |
passed over us, and I just felt the shadow had rushed across my face. | 0:02:44 | 0:02:48 | |
And this feeling I got was that this child will bring you sorrow, | 0:02:48 | 0:02:52 | |
that something is wrong. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:54 | |
And it was so bizarre, because he was a healthy, | 0:02:54 | 0:02:56 | |
perfectly healthy child. | 0:02:56 | 0:02:58 | |
But I do remember having that feeling, | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
and I never thought about it again until, like, the day after Columbine | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
I woke up and I remembered that. | 0:03:03 | 0:03:10 | |
Dylan Klebold lived in this house in the sandstone foothills of Jefferson | 0:03:10 | 0:03:13 | |
County for almost a decade. | 0:03:14 | 0:03:18 | |
Dylan, his older brother Byron, his mother Sue and his father Tom | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
were a typical suburban family. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:28 | |
Sue worked with disabled students in community college, | 0:03:28 | 0:03:30 | |
Tom was a geophysicist. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:31 | |
Both looked for good behaviour in their boys. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
Dylan and Eric met at middle school, and entered Columbine High in 1995, | 0:03:36 | 0:03:39 | |
aged 14 and 15 respectively. | 0:03:39 | 0:03:42 | |
Over time they became increasingly close. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
Dylan nicknamed himself Vodka, Eric was Reb, short for rebel. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:53 | |
Eric Harris spent a bit of time at your house, but he was a friend | 0:03:53 | 0:03:57 | |
of Dylan's for awhile, and once you even gave him a job reference. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
What were your impressions of him? | 0:04:00 | 0:04:04 | |
My impressions of Eric for the most part was that he was | 0:04:04 | 0:04:07 | |
a perfectly normal, likeable kid. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
The only time I ever saw Eric act in a way that I thought was | 0:04:11 | 0:04:15 | |
inappropriate was at a football game, when they were | 0:04:15 | 0:04:17 | |
both at a football game, on the football team, and their team lost. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:21 | |
I thought, well, here is a moody kid who has just lost his cool, and... | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
You know, it wasn't anything that struck me as being dangerous. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:33 | |
But what was Dylan's relationship with him like, do you think? | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
I felt that up until that time that they got in trouble together... | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
Which was 1997. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:42 | |
It was 14 months before they died, they both were involved in a theft. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:45 | |
They stole something out of a parked van. | 0:04:45 | 0:04:47 | |
They both got arrested, and they got into something called | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
a Diversion programme. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
When that incident occurred, I determined that their influence | 0:04:55 | 0:04:57 | |
on each other was not a good thing. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:02 | |
My husband and I made an effort to try and keep | 0:05:02 | 0:05:04 | |
them apart more, and to very closely monitor this relationship. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:07 | |
And it seemed to us that Dylan had pulled back from that relationship | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
a lot on his own. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:19 | |
The boys escaped a criminal record by enrolling in a rehabilitation | 0:05:19 | 0:05:21 | |
programme known as Diversion. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:26 | |
But Dylan's behaviour towards his parents was becoming | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
increasingly erratic. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:29 | |
Dylan became more withdrawn, more hostile. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
But he still took part in family events, he held down a part-time | 0:05:31 | 0:05:34 | |
job, he went to the school prom three days before the massacre. | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
But what his parents didn't know was that Dylan Klebold had | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
been suicidal for two years. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:47 | |
He poured all his rage and upset into diaries and journals, | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
that were only handed to the Klebolds by the police almost | 0:05:50 | 0:05:52 | |
two years after the killings. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
In the Diversion paperwork, you wrote Dylan is introverted and has | 0:05:55 | 0:05:58 | |
grown apart from those of his age. | 0:05:58 | 0:06:12 | |
He is often sullen, his behaviour seem disrespectful to others. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:14 | |
He seems intolerant of those in authority, and intolerant of others. | 0:06:14 | 0:06:17 | |
These were some of the core issues affecting him. | 0:06:17 | 0:06:20 | |
Right, and what I wanted to do when we went to Diversion, | 0:06:20 | 0:06:22 | |
I was so worried about him that I wanted to put everything into | 0:06:22 | 0:06:26 | |
the Diversion report that could show any kind of concerns that I had. | 0:06:26 | 0:06:30 | |
So I tried to be extremely open, to say, yes, he gets irritable, and | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
yes, he does spend time in his room, because I wanted them to be able to | 0:06:34 | 0:06:38 | |
help him and help us deal with this. | 0:06:38 | 0:06:40 | |
That was as bad as it got with Dylan, when I tried to say, | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
what could I say that would put it all out there, so they could help? | 0:06:43 | 0:06:49 | |
You talked about having concerns over his behaviour. | 0:06:49 | 0:06:51 | |
So did you check on his room? | 0:06:51 | 0:06:55 | |
Oh, yes. | 0:06:55 | 0:06:57 | |
In the times that I was in and out of his room, it was because I was | 0:06:57 | 0:07:01 | |
checking to see how clean it was. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:03 | |
I mean, it was like, you need to change your bed, | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
you know, let's get this picked up. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:10 | |
I wasn't looking for anything wrong, because I didn't see it. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:15 | |
Now, after he was arrested, yes, I searched his room. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
We tore his room apart, because it was like, what is missing? | 0:07:17 | 0:07:22 | |
I believe in searching kids' rooms for their own protection. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:24 | |
But over time - as I said, the arrest was 14 months before he died, | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
he was a graduating senior going for college, and it seemed that at some | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
point it was no longer appropriate to search his room, because he was | 0:07:32 | 0:07:35 | |
going to be moving out and living on his own. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:42 | |
Dylan was just weeks away from graduation | 0:07:42 | 0:07:44 | |
when the massacre took place. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:49 | |
Columbine High School is 15 miles south of Denver, in the shadow | 0:07:49 | 0:07:52 | |
of the Rocky Mountains. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:54 | |
On 20 April 1999, its name became infamous around the world when | 0:07:54 | 0:07:58 | |
Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris calmly drove their cars, packed with | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
explosives, guns and grenades, into the school's parking lot, and | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
set about destroying the school. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:09 | |
This wasn't a moment of madness. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:11 | |
It was a cold-blooded massacre, one ten months in the planning. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:20 | |
-- It was a cold-blooded massacre, months and months in the planning. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
A suburban high school turned into a killing field. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:26 | |
One by one, they extracted the dead and injured from the school. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
This teenager was rescued from an upstairs classroom. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
I have been a SWAT officer since 1980, and this was clearly | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
the most devastating and traumatic scene that I had ever seen. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:39 | |
I hope never to see it again. | 0:08:40 | 0:08:44 | |
Tell me how that day began. | 0:08:45 | 0:08:47 | |
It was still dark, and the house was black. | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
And I heard Dylan thundering down the stairs in his boots, | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
because his bedroom was upstairs and ours was down. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
And I was startled, because it was too early for him to be up. | 0:08:54 | 0:09:02 | |
And I opened my bedroom door, and I yelled, Dyl? | 0:09:02 | 0:09:12 | |
And he had run past my room, down the stairs, | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
and he was out the front door. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
And I couldn't see him, but all I heard him say was bye, and | 0:09:16 | 0:09:19 | |
then he slammed the door and left. | 0:09:19 | 0:09:21 | |
And I was very concerned. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:23 | |
I woke my husband immediately, and said something is bothering him. | 0:09:23 | 0:09:25 | |
Would you be home today, will you talk with him? | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
My husband walked out of our home, and he said I will be home, | 0:09:28 | 0:09:31 | |
I will be home all day, I will talk to him when he gets home. | 0:09:31 | 0:09:38 | |
And then what happened? | 0:09:38 | 0:09:39 | |
I was getting ready to go to a meeting, I worked | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
for the community college system. | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
And I had left my desk and came back and the message light | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
was flashing on the telephone. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:57 | |
And I thought, well, I better listen to this. | 0:09:57 | 0:09:59 | |
I picked up the phone and listened, and it was my husband's voice, | 0:09:59 | 0:10:03 | |
and he sounded horribly upset. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:04 | |
His voice was cracking, he could hardly breathe. | 0:10:04 | 0:10:06 | |
And he said, listen to the television. | 0:10:06 | 0:10:08 | |
Something horrible is happening at school. | 0:10:08 | 0:10:09 | |
It was such a day of confusion. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
We had police came to our home. | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
We were asked to leave our home, we had to sit outside. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
We sat on the ground all day. | 0:10:16 | 0:10:17 | |
At that stage, though, you must have thought that it was more likely that | 0:10:17 | 0:10:21 | |
your son was involved in the shooting, as opposed to being shot. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:24 | |
We could hear through the window, the television was on, and at one | 0:10:24 | 0:10:27 | |
point we heard 25 people were dead. | 0:10:27 | 0:10:32 | |
And I remember at that point thinking, if Dylan is really | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
doing this, he must stop. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:36 | |
That moment was when I really... | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
I prayed for him to die. | 0:10:39 | 0:10:46 | |
I thought, something has got to stop this, | 0:10:46 | 0:10:48 | |
whatever it is that is going on. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
It took me a very long time to believe, months, to believe that | 0:10:50 | 0:10:53 | |
my son was actually responsible for killing and hurting people. | 0:10:53 | 0:10:56 | |
Up until that time, I believe I was living in a really... | 0:10:56 | 0:10:59 | |
An extreme state of denial, just saying, he was there, | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
but he didn't really kill anybody, or he wasn't what they are saying. | 0:11:01 | 0:11:05 | |
It was Eric. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:08 | |
Yes, it had to be Eric. | 0:11:08 | 0:11:13 | |
What his parents were unaware of was that Dylan had hidden | 0:11:13 | 0:11:17 | |
a sawn-off shotgun and ammunition in his bedroom. | 0:11:17 | 0:11:22 | |
Police later said that Klebold and Harris had prepared 99 home-made | 0:11:22 | 0:11:28 | |
explosives for use in the attack. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
It must have been a very strange thing to compute, | 0:11:32 | 0:11:37 | |
to know that between them, Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
going to blow up the whole school. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:42 | |
That was one of the most difficult moments of this entire process. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
I had to go through so many... so many phases of accepting this | 0:11:46 | 0:11:50 | |
and accepting OK, they were there. | 0:11:50 | 0:11:52 | |
OK, they hurt people. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
And it was purposeful. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:56 | |
Yes, it was planned, it wasn't impulsiveness. | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
And then at the police report to finally learn | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
their plan had been to kill everyone in the school, but it failed. | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
When I thought of that and thought of the magnitude, | 0:12:06 | 0:12:09 | |
I really didn't think I was going to live through it. | 0:12:09 | 0:12:15 | |
In the book, you describe him as withdrawn and monosyllabic | 0:12:15 | 0:12:21 | |
sometimes, and took failure hard, and I wonder, do you feel there | 0:12:21 | 0:12:24 | |
were certain signs you missed? | 0:12:24 | 0:12:25 | |
I think there were. | 0:12:25 | 0:12:28 | |
In particular, the fact that in his junior year, | 0:12:28 | 0:12:37 | |
several things happened to him. | 0:12:37 | 0:12:38 | |
We had all those issues in a row. | 0:12:38 | 0:12:40 | |
He got arrested, he got in trouble at school, he had | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
scratched a locker at school. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:44 | |
I did not recognise that those things meant that there was a | 0:12:44 | 0:12:50 | |
potential life-and-death situation. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:52 | |
I did not recognise these were possible signs | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
of a mental condition. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:59 | |
According to FBI records, there have been 50 mass murders or | 0:12:59 | 0:13:05 | |
attempted mass murders at schools in America since Columbine. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:10 | |
Sue Klebold made one stipulation before our interview - | 0:13:10 | 0:13:14 | |
that we would not show the CCTV pictures of Dylan and Eric | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
in the school during the massacre... | 0:13:18 | 0:13:19 | |
for fear of copycat attacks. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:25 | |
You were asked to go to the Sheriff's Office six months after | 0:13:25 | 0:13:29 | |
the massacre to be shown videos. | 0:13:29 | 0:13:30 | |
Tell me about that. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
It was a collection of the two of them talking | 0:13:32 | 0:13:34 | |
about what they were going to do and being horribly violent and hateful. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:41 | |
I remember when I saw that, I stood up | 0:13:41 | 0:13:43 | |
and thought I was going to be ill. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:45 | |
It was such a shock. | 0:13:45 | 0:13:46 | |
The person I was seeing on that film was not anybody I could recognise. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
It was not Dylan. | 0:13:50 | 0:14:01 | |
But at that point, did you have to face up to the fact that he was | 0:14:01 | 0:14:05 | |
equally responsible for Columbine? | 0:14:05 | 0:14:06 | |
That's correct. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:07 | |
That was the moment, that was the day which I learned he was not | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
an innocent bystander who happened to get involved. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:12 | |
This was not an impulsive act. | 0:14:12 | 0:14:15 | |
He prepared for this for a long period of time, | 0:14:15 | 0:14:16 | |
and he was equally involved in killing people and saying horrible | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
things to people before they died. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:26 | |
In the aftermath of the massacre, you had support from friends | 0:14:26 | 0:14:29 | |
and co-workers, | 0:14:29 | 0:14:30 | |
but you also had a substantial firestorm coming at you. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:32 | |
What sort of things happened? | 0:14:32 | 0:14:44 | |
I remember being in a grocery store and paying with a | 0:14:44 | 0:14:47 | |
cheque, and the checker recognised my name and asked if I knew him, | 0:14:47 | 0:14:50 | |
and I said, "Yes, he was my son". | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
And she started in a very loud voice saying this was the work of Satan, | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
and just shouting at me. | 0:14:56 | 0:14:59 | |
I was trying to bag my groceries and get out. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
I would turn on the radio and hear myself being discussed and | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
called disgusting. | 0:15:05 | 0:15:08 | |
So these were just things that happened, and it created a feeling | 0:15:08 | 0:15:12 | |
of being watched and judged. | 0:15:12 | 0:15:16 | |
This instant decision about what had happened by people who didn't know. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:19 | |
People want to believe it's something as simple | 0:15:19 | 0:15:23 | |
as bad parenting. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:26 | |
Because that is a comforting thought. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
Nobody wants to believe this could happen to us. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:32 | |
And I think it made people feel safer to believe that we were all | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
of the things they wished we were, or perceived us to be, | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
or imprinted on us. | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
Because then they would feel, "This could not happen to me, | 0:15:42 | 0:15:45 | |
because I'm not like that". | 0:15:45 | 0:15:47 | |
You also wrote to the victims' families. | 0:15:47 | 0:15:49 | |
I did do that, yes. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
One father did write back to us about a year later, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:55 | |
which I was extremely grateful for, and wanted to meet us. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:59 | |
It was profoundly comforting to me and meant so much to me. | 0:15:59 | 0:16:02 | |
I received a letter from the sister of one | 0:16:02 | 0:16:05 | |
of the girls who had been shot. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:11 | |
And then one of the mothers of one of the girls who had been | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
killed also reached out and wanted to meet with me. | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
And those things meant so much to me. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:20 | |
I could not even begin to explain how it felt so wonderful to have | 0:16:20 | 0:16:23 | |
them be gracious enough and brave enough to do that. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:35 | |
Sue Klebold now believes that Dylan's suicidal years were | 0:16:35 | 0:16:37 | |
a significant factor in the Columbine massacre. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:39 | |
Since 1999, she has become increasingly involved | 0:16:39 | 0:16:41 | |
in the issue of suicide prevention. | 0:16:41 | 0:16:42 | |
She's written a book about the Columbine tragedy, | 0:16:42 | 0:16:44 | |
A Mother's Reckoning, donating profits to mental health charities. | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
You say in the book, "I should listen more and lecture less". | 0:16:47 | 0:17:00 | |
In all the years since I lost Dylan, I wish I had | 0:17:00 | 0:17:04 | |
just said, "You feel that way. | 0:17:04 | 0:17:11 | |
Tell me some more about how you feel." | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
I think I had a tendency to lecture, tell him what to do, | 0:17:14 | 0:17:20 | |
or to do what parents do. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:22 | |
And I just wished that I had talked much less. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:29 | |
You wrote in the book it would have been better for the world if Dylan | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
had not been born, but it would not have been better for you. | 0:17:33 | 0:17:36 | |
The guilt I feel at even loving Dylan, | 0:17:36 | 0:17:43 | |
or feeling that way about him, knowing what he did and how he hurt | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
other people, but Dylan was my son. | 0:17:47 | 0:17:56 | |
And knowing him did enrich my life, and I loved him, and he brought joy | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
to me when he was alive. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:02 | |
And since his death, I have found meaning in life | 0:18:02 | 0:18:04 | |
by trying to find answers to understand why this happened and how | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
this terrible thing came about. | 0:18:07 | 0:18:09 | |
What do you wish you had said to Dylan that morning | 0:18:09 | 0:18:16 | |
when he ran out of the house? | 0:18:16 | 0:18:22 | |
I think I wish I had just tackled him. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:29 | |
And just said, "Sit down, you're not going anywhere. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:31 | |
We're going to talk." | 0:18:31 | 0:18:35 | |
I read somewhere you had worn a piece of his clothing, | 0:18:35 | 0:18:37 | |
you held onto things. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
Yes, I did wear his clothes for a long time. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:43 | |
My husband and I both did. | 0:18:43 | 0:18:44 | |
It's just a feeling of wanting him a little bit closer. | 0:18:44 | 0:18:48 | |
In the aftermath of all this, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
your very strong and long marriage didn't survive. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:54 | |
I wonder why you decided to go your separate ways. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:56 | |
You said, "For the sake of our friendship". | 0:18:56 | 0:19:02 | |
Right. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:04 | |
When this tragedy happened, it was like | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
a lightning bolt hitting a tree. | 0:19:06 | 0:19:12 | |
It just sort of split whatever the marriage was. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:16 | |
We responded to the tragedy differently, and what we felt | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
our life calling was in relation to this. | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
It was like being on a ice floe that just got smaller and smaller, | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
and there was no common ground. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:45 | |
The tragedy, which was at the time the worst school shooting in | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
American history, cast a long shadow. | 0:19:48 | 0:19:49 | |
Families were shattered, sons and daughters dead. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
One teacher murdered as he tried to protect students. | 0:19:51 | 0:20:00 | |
And those shot that day and survived, some are living with | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
the most horrific wounds. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:05 | |
Have you been to the memorial? | 0:20:05 | 0:20:06 | |
I have. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:08 | |
What happened when you went there? | 0:20:08 | 0:20:10 | |
I have gone quite a few times. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
And what I do is I sit there, and in my head I talk to the kids. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:21 | |
And to the teacher who was there. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:24 | |
Without the rest of the world, without parents, lawyers, community. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:31 | |
I just want them to know that I'm thinking of them... | 0:20:31 | 0:20:34 | |
And I will always think of them. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
Do you want to take a moment? | 0:20:38 | 0:20:49 | |
I'm OK. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:51 | |
OK. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:54 | |
You talk a lot in the book about faith. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:59 | |
Do you still believe in God? | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
Not in the same way that I did before. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:09 | |
I wonder if you had religion before in a different way, or whether you | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
believe there is an afterlife? | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
I don't know. | 0:21:15 | 0:21:16 | |
I go back and forth on that. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:21 | |
If there is, you will see Dylan again. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:23 | |
That's really what I'm asking. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:26 | |
That is the one thing I have hoped for, again and again, that at some | 0:21:26 | 0:21:31 | |
moment, either in this present life or in the transition or in the | 0:21:31 | 0:21:34 | |
afterlife, that I must see him again. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:36 | |
I'm hoping that I will see him again. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
If you believe in good and evil, you might be in a different place. | 0:21:40 | 0:21:47 | |
I know, I know. I know. | 0:21:47 | 0:21:52 | |
A lot of people will read this book and read it in a lot | 0:21:52 | 0:21:56 | |
of different ways, because it will mean a lot to different groups. | 0:21:56 | 0:21:59 | |
It will mean a lot to the victims' families, to the survivors, some | 0:21:59 | 0:22:02 | |
of whom are still, two, in a wheelchair. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:04 | |
What would you say to them? | 0:22:04 | 0:22:06 | |
What do you say to them now? | 0:22:06 | 0:22:17 | |
I have this feeling of wanting to say over and over again, "I'm sorry, | 0:22:17 | 0:22:20 | |
I'm sorry, I'm sorry". | 0:22:20 | 0:22:27 | |
And I know that such a thing is so completely inadequate, | 0:22:27 | 0:22:31 | |
but I don't know what else to say besides I'm sorry. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:38 | |
I'm just so sorry for what Dylan did, and I wouldn't even know what | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 |