Where Have All the Fans Gone? Week In Week Out

Welsh rugby is on a higher with a fantastic win in Ireland and a

great World Cup. But below the national game the sport is at a

crossroads. Teams fighting for survival. We have a lost generation

of fans who have not bought into regional rugby. This fan is not

there but can he and others be brought back. Lots of people don't

go to rugby games any longer. a radical financial shake up be

coming in? We could look at different models. Will we keep our

star players? If we don't, that is Chase it up, boys. No, no, no. Over

here! Go on, Steve. Steve Hughes is a typical rugby fan who enjoys

nothing more than watching his local rugby team, the level just

below regional rugby. I am from the valley outside Bridgend, and I have

always come down on a Saturday, going to as many games as I could.

With rugby, irrespective of whether you are man or woman, it is in your

blood. The whole family are here enjoying the game, enjoying the

banter. He is the official Dennis Clark. They are a rugby-mad family

but not fans of their local professional side. When the fight

professional teams were set up, Steve was a regular. Not now.

this is my Denner. You would never guess you were a rugby fan. I see

you have had a little dabble at regional rugby. Yes, when the

Warriors were formed, we followed them for a season. It was a blast.

It allowed us to go around different parts of Europe.

travelled everywhere, to Scotland and Ireland. Before we got married

and had a family. I really enjoyed it, I was not tracked along. I

enjoyed going. I have noticed, or sprays season tickets. We went

after the worry is finished. �500 or so, we went once and I am

repenting as we speak. It took us such a long time to get there, to

drive, then catch a bus, then walk 10 or 15 minutes from the bus stop.

I just thought it was too much like hard work. When we got there they

said she could not have a drink in the bar unless you paid extra. I

felt quite unwelcome. For a queen - - keen that rugby family to be

turning their back, it is a mystery. They are big national supporters.

Who is going to win the Six Nations this year? Wales. While a? While?

His it is our country. At the World Cup, over 60,000 supporters were

attending for the semi-final. Wales were not even playing here, they

were 13,000 miles away in New Zealand. To get 60,000 people into

the stadium to watch a match on television is the kind of support

But here is the paradox, the regions which provided the conveyor

belt of young talent to achieve a two Grand Slams and a World Cup

semi-final cannot get fans to watch the regional teams. Those in charge

of the game are worried, issuing a major financial review. The regions

have given them its support. Desperate to find out what has gone

wrong. We have to look at different ways of running the professional

game in Wales. Be it is not working in terms of attendances, is it?

can't argue with that, there are pockets where the attendances are

slightly up, there are regions where they are down. We have to

hold our hands up, the way we did it in the past as individual

regions and clubs is no longer sustainable. So what is going

wrong? Why are people and Steve -- like Stephen Allen not supporting

the regional teams? To make sense of it all we need to look at how

regional rugby began. Nine years ago teams like Bridgend were look

one of nine top clubs across South Wales, but that was considered too

weak a structure to support the national side. The decision was

made to create five regions, Cardiff and the Netley would have

stand-alone regions, Newport and the Gwent Dragons created, then

beat Celtic dragons, a huge change which Steve and Alison were willing

to give a go. We felt very excited, to be in something fresh and

exciting. It never lasted. Celtic warriors were disbanded, is this

based on bitterness? Everything must move on, but at the moment I

am not won over. I would give it another go. I think the intensity

of the rugby is much greater. It is more interesting to watch than the

local games, but my husband is just not keen on going. He was so

involved with Bridgend that he finds it difficult, he feels he is

betraying his local club to watch the regional rugby. The regions to

have a loyal supporters but attendance figures make worrying

reading. Since they were established nine years ago the

Welsh regional sides have struggled to reach the hoped for attendance

levels, some have made steady progress to begin with but then

numbers stalled. The Scarlets have picked up again this season but

everywhere else the numbers have dropped significantly, even with

some big derby matches over Christmas. Paul Reece has been

writing on the Welsh game for decades and he is worried about

what is happening at regional level. Depressed, I would say. A big

factor in that his attendances. Look at Cardiff blues, biggest game

of the season, probably for a couple of seasons, should have had

15,000, but it felt empty and solace. That defined the regional

game at the moment. The interest should be there, especially from a

country with Wales's rugby history. He has got support! The irony is

that most of the top players play for the regions, but they are all

losing money and have imposed a salary cap. Foreign clubs are a

constant lure to the top players, some are thinking of going and some

have already gone. Imagine if the steady stream became a flood.

is enough money for to keep most of our best players who are

internationals, I believe it will be exceptions rather than the rule.

I think we can keep them. If we don't that is the demise of the

game in Wales. I want my grandson to come here and watch all of his

heroes. I don't want him to have to watch them on TV from France or

England. In a the end wells have come away with the honours. Having

the best players playing in Wells is seen as vital to the national

side, but the region's need more than a top team to succeed. -- in

Wales. Terry Stevens believes they should have got their act sorted

off the pitch first. It was a marriage of convenience, we could

not agree on a surname so had a hybrid. They do not work in terms

of capturing hearts and minds, you are asking them to do two things,

to accept an amalgamation of their two clubs, you are asking them to

play in a different venue, and asking them to comply and adopt a

name of an offspring which is really an adopted offspring.

replica rugby jerseys were the highest selling in the UK but that

has not brought in the crowds. Fans want more than 80 minutes of rugby

these days. When we were a single it was all about the rugby. But now

I have children, it must be an experience for us all and a day out.

If there is something for the children to do, fantastic.

penny is dropping with all the regions that the game needs to be

dealt with differently. Here at the Scarlets, the training hall is

being put to good use. It is not just about 80 minutes of rugby.

is the brainchild of the chief executive. This facility helps, it

is not just about sitting for 80 minutes and watching the game. It

is a five or six-hour family day out. The Scarlets are not the only

region to move to new premises, how This is the Cardiff City Stadium,

home to the football club and the Blues regional rugby side. It is

something two of the regions have adopted and is seen as the future.

For some, it is also part of a problem. In Cardiff and Swansea the

match-day experience varies depending on whether you are

watching football or rugby. For Cardiff City the ground is

regularly packed. For the Blues it is rarely half full. Since the move

at the numbers initially increased then dropped off, comparisons are

painful, fans have complained and the Blues have bowed to the

pressure, saying the match next will be in the old stadium. Up a

bit, down a bit. We showed the finance figures to the sports

marketing expert Glynis Jones, she looks at fan experience, and is

focused on rugby league. Why does she think Cardiff City is

outselling the Cardiff blues? have an excellent fan experience

and are winning awards for the work they have done on fan experience.

That started with understanding who the fans were, I wonder whether any

of these clubs, or any of the other clubs, know who their fans are. Did

they know which segment they are in, do they know where they are from

geographically. Do they know what they like and dislike. They might

think they know, but have they done the work in finding out. I think

marketing, promotion, is very important in connecting with your

consumers. If you don't actually know what the consumers want and

the first place, you cannot get your product right. Nowadays it is

not just a rugby which is the product. The Scarlets have shown

the best reason success for bringing in supporters, but how

much did they spend in marketing? In conventional marketing it is

fair to a non-existent, as a proportion of turnover or an

absolute spend. Why? Purely because we don't have the resources.

asked the other regions to said it was inappropriate for them to talk

about marketing budgets, but they say they are using modern media and

other methods to get the message across. If the money is not spent

on marketing, where is it spent? the this tough economic climate,

what comes first is it the marketing or team? At the moment we

have put our eggs in the team. the marketing failed? If you look

at the numbers in isolation, you would say yes. But, not looking for

excuses, but it is very difficult. Steve and Alison are giving

regional rugby another go. Holding a game at the Bridgend ground is

making it difficult to stay alive. They are being tempted back. There

is a fantastic atmosphere here. Much more than our normal games. I

am quite excited. A lot of Bridgend influence in this team, which we

are familiar with. I want to see how they perform on the bigger

All of the regions have a huge importance on local players, and

that emphasis appears to be the right one. Fans like to know about

local youngsters making their way through, because you are able to

see youngsters from future clubs in the area coming through. Fans liked

to have a point of connection in the club and one of those points of

connection can be local talent delivering interesting rugby even

though they don't necessarily win. Terry has seen a strategy bear

fruit when he worked with a successful team from across the

Irish Sea. But there is a fundamental difference. Teams here

play to packed houses. Limerick and Munster are regularly sellout their

capacity ground. This region has produced a sea of players. Keith

Woods was just one of them. He plied his trade with Harlequins in

England as well as Munster but he has never forgotten where he came

from. I was fortunate to play for a great club. And then the chance to

get noticed and I ate played in this ground here in Munster. I

remember bringing back a chunk of Harlequins supporters to come over

to watch Munster player. They said we understand how or they would

know who you are but how would you know who they are? That is the

great thing about Limerick and Munster. The difference between a

supporter and the player was probably the outrage of a hand to

pat them on the back. What supporters wanted, supporters got.

Even down to the design of the new stadium where the decision was made

to keep the terraces to help maintain the match-day atmosphere.

Attendance levels in Wales compare badly with Ireland's top regions.

From very similar attendances in 2003, these Irish provinces have

more than doubled their numbers. Munster's success has benefited the

whole area. It is estimated the club is worth 70 million euros to

the economy which in turn helps boost the Rugby. Great news for the

development officer. We need to work at this continually, not to

have too much of a gap between the regions and the clubs and that

benefits the on-field performance but it also keeps the communities

closer, or whether it is the national or regional teams. I know

Wales and Welsh rugby well. That should be an easy thing for them to

do because Wales is very like Limerick. Ireland's provinces have

it easier than the Welsh counterparts, more established

teams and tax-breaks for top players. In addition, Wales might

have a fundamental problem. Are the Welsh regions in the right place?

Wales' four regions are expected to Repton whole of Wales but there is

no region in North Wales. There is no region north of the M4. To my

left is the home of Welsh rugby. To my right is the home of the

disenfranchised. Over Christmas, Newport Gwent Dragons played the

Ospreys in front of 7,000 fans. They still play at their original

ground, Rodney Parade. It is a great atmosphere but big Derby's

like this should be attracting many thousands more. Where are the fans?

Nelson rugby club is part of the Dragons' region. On a cold training

night, the coach gave his views. be as blunt as I probably can be,

for us here personally, who are the Dragons? We do not see them around

the community. We do not see any of them up here trying to sell their

product to our club which is probably 15 or 16 miles away from

them. Do your players go and watch the Dragons at Rodney Parade?

power game was called off on a Saturday afternoon, I know of no

players in the last couple of years he why have been coaching who would

jump on a bus or in the car and go and watch the Dragons. They would

probably go down the road and watch Pontypridd or maybe a local rugby

game. Most people at our level do not think it is working. Going to

the city closer to wear these regions are, you might get a

different answer. Dragons told us they do liaise across the board

with their clubs. They have attended dinners at Nelson and

invited a junior teams to Rodney Parade but there are moves to

establish a valleys region. Clubs have recently written to the W R

year and one MP wants a rethink -- Welsh Rugby Union. What is the real

difference if everyone is not part of the Dragons? I think the reality

is, let's call a spade a spade. They are clubs. If they have always

been clubs, maybe we can get back to clubs. Call a spade a spade but

then union more clubs involved. Quite clearly, that would give you

more of that local rivalry that we like and it might give us an

opportunity to toy with promotion and relegation again. Ten years ago,

Welsh rugby was warned not to create super teams. But in a vote,

a majority of Wales' clubs backed the Welsh Rugby Union plan for

regional rugby. Over time, even diehard opponents have changed

their minds. No one fork regionalisation on behalf of this

town and this club. But I know because I deal with it every day,

the reasons are trying to embrace collectively their regions. It is

taking a while. It is only seven or eight years since probably the

biggest sea change in the game in Wales. It has taken time that I can

tell you now, the regional concept is accepted and embraced by the

regions. Is a values region a realistic proposition? Money is

being left on the table by the Welsh Rugby Union because there are

5,000 chimney pots north of the M4. A lot of those people do not go to

rugby games any longer because they do not feel that they have a side

to support. That seems to be a hard-headed economic way to look at

it. It would be down to the Welsh Rugby Union to approve a new region.

This man has boosted turnover. What does he make of calls for a 5th

region? Almost a year ago we said, please show us how this makes sense

financially. Come up with a business plan. One year on, silence.

We have heard nothing whatsoever other than misleading comments to

people where expectation has been raised and simply cannot be

fulfilled. That is irresponsible. And if they do come up with a

financial plan? I would be the first to welcome it, the first to

read it, the first to analyse it and the first to say can this

really fly? I look forward to that. However, a 5th region seems

unlikely when the existing four are struggling on their current income.

Each receives money from television rights and the Wash rugby union.

The rest they have to make themselves. The latest accounts

show they are all in the red. are not healthy. They are very

unhealthy. The majority of the clubs have high levels of debt.

They are being funded by directors who are fans of the club who are

willing to put their personal money into the club. But if something

happens to one of those, particularly in the current

economic conditions, nobody is safe and if they decide that they are

going to take their money away, then that is a big problem for

those clubs. What they all need is more supporters through the

turnstiles but ironically, the regions believe efforts to attract

new fans are being undermined by one of their main income is, TV.

would not been much of a spectacle to take the children, and they are

tied at the end of the day, when they have been to school on a

Friday or out plane, I think adults it is more attractive. But they are

trying to attract a family. I have a family now. I would like it from

my point of the to be more family related with afternoon kick-off so

instead of evening kick-offs. Ospreys were unhappy that one of

their biggest gains was organised for bonfire night. The Blues showed

their research found that incense and if -- is as to scheduling is

hurting the game's. If it is going to be 6:30pm on a Friday or

Saturday, please, let's have it for the season. S4C told us that

fixtures were agreed with Celtic rugby and broadcast partners and

the BBC said all fixtures were arranged with partners to make sure

there was enough time to market gains. Next month, the Price

Waterhouse Coopers review of regional rugby is due to be

presented to the Welsh Rugby Union and regions. All admit the

financial problems could lead to some tough decisions. It is shame

we have come to this position where it is backs against the wall for

some people. Is very well? Yes, there is. However, I have to be

certain that I do not put the Welsh Rugby Union and everything why have

done into jeopardy. Ultimately, it is the Welsh Rugby Union who

franchise the four regions. They still won four professional teams

but nothing, it seems is off the table. Kenya have four different

models and four different relationships with the Welsh Rugby

Union and that is something I have discussed informally. Can I clarify

what you mean by four different models? That each region could be

funded the brilliant have a different relationship from each

other? That is a possibility. We must not pre-empt the findings and

the discussions we need to have with everyone. Just to clarify, you

could have three regions which gets X amount of money and another

region which gets a small amount of money than the other three?

permutations could be greater than that. It could be one, three, to,

to, you have to come up with a solution for all of Welsh rugby.

region or regions getting less money than the others would send

shockwaves through the game but the fact this is being discussed shows

how serious the situation is. Why does it matter, if the region's

continued to struggle financially, if they struggle to attack crowds

to the ground, does it have any impact to Wales and the national

set-up? I think it would. Look at Scotland. They could not sustain

three teams. It has gone down to two. Professional rugby in Scotland

is hard to sustain. Do you want to get into that? There would still be

a basis of support and identity, but what we are talking about his

Wales as a major force in the world game. That is what is at stake here.

What all regions want is more supporters. Steve and Alison

enjoyed their game but they still have concerns which they put to the

Ospreys' managing director. Now we have a young family, the boys are

almost seven and they want to believe in regional rugby but there

is a disconnect between Bridgend and the national game. They want to

have something to support but we have not felt the need to go and

watch the Ospreys or any other region. We believe that regional

rugby is the future for Welsh rugby. I do not believe there is any

turning back. It is up to us to convince people like yourselves to

come along and enjoy it. A regional rugby is determined to be the

future, but eight years after they were formed, should they be in a

vulnerable state? If you have been involved since the onset of

regional rugby, do you accept that you and others have made mistakes

and failed to sell the game? Hindsight is a great thing. I

consider my time here as a very good one but there's a lot more to

be done now. The rugby people like myself who have been chief

executives over the years are being replaced more by people with

different skills that's, particularly marketing and

commercial activities. I applaud that -- different skill sets.

Everyone who is involved in regional rugby at this moment in

time he is focusing on a different solution. That is what I'm doing,

coming up with a solution, not pointing the finger. Sen, guys, we

will work with you. The fact that you said they have their backs to

the wall, is that a failure? Absolutely not. The Welsh Rugby

Union has led all the time from the front with a range of initiatives.

The Welsh Rugby Union and regions will work together for solutions,

but in the end, the future is in the hand of supporters and whether

enough will make the emotional leap to a regional Wales. It is early

days. You cannot change from one team to another overnight. It does

take some time and effort but it Steve is willing to attend more