Gypsies, Travellers and Pitch Battles Week In Week Out

people who rarely find a welcome. They call us stinking pikeys.

Stinking gypsies. If we had anywhere else to go we would not be here.

Across Wales they need more sites but where will they go? They say we

do not want the huggers here. has life changed for the travellers

we met 21 years ago? A new law might mean councils being prosecuted if

they do not build new sites but what about the neighbours? It is the mess

that is left behind and the thieving that goes on. Not all travellers are

This is home for the McDonnagh family. A roadside on a business

park in Swansea. They have no toilets, water or electricity. We do

not want to be here. This is what we call home. They have been camped

here for 18 months and three Bernard's five children go to local

schools. The kids come back from school, if they need to use the

toilet they go to Burger King or KFC. Showers, they go to VLC in

Swansea. You can see here we keep the place as tidy as we can. With

five kids coming in here, every evening it has to be swept up and

kept tidy. We take these bags to the tip every evening. But neighbouring

businesses have had enough and they want the council to evict them.

are told they are not going to be here long but we have been told that

before. We invite numerous high profile clients to our flagship head

office premises. The first thing they see and notice is that we are

flanked by some gypsy caravans. The family has been using the company's

water supply and Dawnus have caught other unwanted guests on camera.

have had horses tethered here, both on this particular patch and more

recently around the back here. No horses here today but tomorrow there

may well be. The family say the horses belong to other travellers.

We respect their culture but at the same time, they need to be living

somewhere else. If this family is moved on, they say they will have to

park summer rails illegally in Swansea. That is because the council

does not have an official site for them to go to. But it is spending

money trying to evict them and others from around the city. Across

Wales there is a demand for hundreds of new pitches and the row about

where to put them is getting louder. By law, councils are expected to try

to provide gypsy and traveller sites where there is a need. Gorseinon is

a town which has been earmarked by Swansea Council for one of five new

possible sites. Malcolm Curtice is a town councillor. Until last month he

was the local mayor. I ask people what they think and they say, we do

not want the huggers here. That is it. There is no more to be said.

They do not want them here. Malcolm does not speak for everyone in the

town but he tells me why some people do not want gypsies and travellers

here. The site is well used for the local public.

The show people come here three or four times a year. It is a beautiful

area. Malcolm says people have not forgotten the travellers who parked

illegally here 20 years ago. The thefts in the shops in the high

Street and the mess left after them. I'm not saying the new travellers

coming here it is them, I cannot say that because it is going back 20 odd

years. You do not want them here? The public do not want them here.

We asked some of the locals what they think. As travellers, they

should be travelling. We are on the rise. We have Asda coming to

Gorseinon. We are trying to make it look nicer and we are really worried

about something which will be an eyesore. But the council thinks some

of this park land which will set aside for a cemetery might be the

place. Once people know it is a gypsy site or a traveller site as

they call it, which is close by, I think it will affect the price of

houses. If I was buying I would think twice. I am all for giving

people a chance and then see what happens. Love your neighbour and who

is my neighbour? They have got rituals. They do a lot of fighting

and they do have the attitude that you are not allowed near their land.

Malcolm has never visited the city's only official site so we

asked him if he would like the opportunity. What do you think you

know about them and their life? Well, I do not know much, to be

honest. They come over from Ireland. They are mostly Irish tinkerers. 90%

of them have got houses in Ireland. They come back, Labour, paving slabs

and that is it, that is the way they work and people are getting fed up

with it. If they want a permanent site, have a permanent house, that

is my argument. Is the law wrong? The law is an ass has been often

said. The law says they are entitled to have their own pitch and sites.

If they want a permanent site, have a permanent house.

This is Swansea Council's only official Gypsy and Traveller site.

With seven pictures it is home to the Gilheaney family. They like it

but they say it is not big enough. They're all my brothers and sisters

living here. It is fantastic but the city does need a new site. We have

everything we need but we could do with a bit more space. In here now

you have got the conservatory at the front. That is your kitchen, sitting

area where you eat. Then you have a shower, bathroom, toilet facilities.

Jimmy and his wife have eight children. We have no intention of

leaving the site. We are happy where we are. But when the children grow

up they might need more space. and living as a scrap collector. He

is worried about the row about where to put the new site is fuelling

anti-Gypsy and Traveller sentiment. You can be driving through the

street and you will salute someone and they will go like that, to pose.

That is how it is every day around Swansea. They paint everyone with

the same brush. They say we do not pay taxes, we get things for

nothing. We pay our way. Obviously, a small minority probably do not pay

their way but so do the settled community. I imagine that they think

a gypsy's home would be very filthy and dirty and smelly and as you can

see, it is not the case. We use this as a kitchen. We use the camper home

as a bedroom. I have got kids living there and kids next door in another

caravan. We had that the caravans in one plot. Families who stay here pay

rent and council tax but Jimmy is worried that wherever the new site

is built there could be a backlash. There were picketing boards.

there was a black person and they were protesting, what would be said

then? Is it because they are gypsies it is okayed to do that?

The two sides have agreed to meet. am prepared to listen to him. I will

try and enlighten him and educate him.

For 20 years, Welsh councils have been obliged to try and provide

sites but some have none at all. Today, pictures are needed for 1200

caravans in Wales. For dozens of gypsies in Newport, there has never

been an official site. They all live rent free on unauthorised pictures

but that is about to change. Thank you, Lord, thank you for everyone

here. We know you can do miracles. This gypsy family is praying for a

better future. They have been illegally camped for more than a

year. The Price family may have been welcomed by a local church but

others in the city are not as keen. About two days ago they came to the

gate and said, you stinking gypsies. Get back to where you come from and

all that. If we had anywhere else to go, we would not be here. This might

be their next home. There are plans to site 120 caravans here. The

gypsies like the idea but it has not gone down well in the community.

Everyone you talk to, they want to stop it. If you are living in a posh

part they are concerned it will make the area look a bit low. I don't see

why everybody cannot get along. They have got to settle somewhere. I'm

not saying they are all that add but I suppose they get tarred with the

same brush. -- all that bad. They live under pylons but there is

no mains electricity. They paid �25 a week for a toilet and there is one

tap for 35 adults and children. do not have a shower, we have a wash

in a bowl. It is quite hard. What we need on this site is toilets for

each home. We need proper water. We could do with electric. We do not

mind paying for it. And just somewhere really settled.

Chantelle lives here with her three children her parents and a large

extended family. They are being tolerated here and tell the council

builds a new site. Chantelle's brother says rats are another

problem. All the holes you see along the bottom of that fence, that is

the rat runs. You see the backs of these, there are holes in the back

of the fence is to put the gas pipes through. You have got to block them

to stop them getting in. That is how bad the rat far. Chantelle thinks

these conditions are making her children ill. She has had diarrhoea

and sickness. Most of the times they are burning up and come out with a

rash but we do not know where it comes from. We take them to the

doctors and they say it is a viral infection, everything. Life would be

easier and house but Chantelle is a gypsy and she wants the right to

follow her tradition and live the caravan life. There is my kitchen

there, my diner. I have been in a house before. I am a gypsy and I am

used to being a gypsy. When I get decorating, I want to go.

The new site is planned opposite the Pile family's home. They moved in

six months ago. The main reason we moved to this house is the ruble

location. It is that slickly beautiful, very peaceful, very

quiet. Safe for the children. There is no traffic on the lane. It is

perfect really. Carly Pile say they have invested everything in their

home and now they are worried they might have made a big mistake.

house is situated here and I have just walked five yards across.

behind this hedgerow is where the site is proposed to be. As you can

see, it is Ray close to my house. From my bedroom window I will be

looking onto the site. Protesters want the council to sell the land.

The council thinks this is the best place to say to travellers. Gypsy

rights worker Tom Hendrie is visiting Chantelle. He is a gypsy he

grew up in Newport. This is the pressure. You cannot host down the

trailers or nothing. He knows only too well how much gypsies need an

official site. You have to propose something because it makes you sound

better. These people have nowhere to live. The row over where to put

sites has been raging the decades. 21 years ago, I filmed on Swansea is

sprawling unofficial site. More than 100 people are living in appalling

squalor, families with small children make the best of filthy

conditions because this is their last refuge. Back then, I met

another family. The Joyces. Mounds of rubbish have piled up high in the

caravan belonging to Kathleen. She only leaves the caravan at day.

At night, she is trapped by rats. A friend of mine was here and she had

little girl and one got into the caravan and got the child on the

leg. The child was in hospital. They were regularly evicted. Years

earlier, her daughter-in-law told the BBC how she had struggled to

find a school I was prepared to teach her children. I went to the

first school and asked if they would take the kids. She thought it was

somebody out of the houses so when she heard I was from down here she

refused. This is Christine now. We found her living a few miles from

the old site, she still doesn't have an official pitch in the city.

Hello. How are you? It's been a long time.

Can I come in? Please come in. Well, here we are again. 21 years later.

We are still here. You are still here. How have things been for you?

Awful. Moving around week after week, month after month. Do you get

depressed? Sometimes. I am on anti-depression tablets. Do you know

what the cause is? The hassle I have had to life, nowhere to properly

stay, no amenities and I would like my family to have them. Christine's

children and grandchildren live here too. Swansea Council owns the land

and it has tried to evict them. But in court, Christine won the right to

stay here until a new official site is built. This is the taps, no water

coming out. Hot or cold. Nothing. Everything has to be carried by

hand. Yes. This is the water supply. For 12 caravans, all of your

washing needs. It comes from here. All from there. The council paid

�45,000 to have two shoulder -- toilets and showers installed after

the children's Commissioner intervened but it's still a

struggle. We find it difficult, so many kids and adults using two

showers and toilets is awful. to is not on. The life of

uncertainty for travellers and gypsies in Swansea and across Wales

might be about to change. The Welsh government will introduce

legislation which if past will mean councils are prosecuted if they

don't provide more official site in further tension in communities

already unhappy with plans for new sites. Hillary and Tom Jenkins don't

want one at the bottom of their garden. They are helping to lead the

fight. If the council wants to put half �1 million houses there, Tom

and I would object as well. They've organised protests against the new

site. Currently the official, tolerated and illegal sites are all

in the area. I am not racist. I have no objection to the council

providing a site but if you said put all the black people to live in one

area of Swansea, the council would be up in arms, council officers

would be up in arms, the police would be and the commission for

racial equality would be up in arms and anyone who had a fair-minded

view of society would be up in arms. While the rows with the council

continue, Christine has to manage. She would happily stay here if the

council installed amenities but it won't because it says it is

unsuitable. We were willing to pay rent but the council said we were

not permanent residence. I was willing to pay rent. You don't pay

council tax. No, we don't. We are willing to pay it. If the site was

permanent. They know we are willing to do it. For the family living on a

roadside, there's more at people ahead. Bernard is worried about the

children's education if they leave the area. Kids going to school,

water and electric, that's all we want. I would like them to read and

write. I missed out on it. I never followed it up. They've been warned

they will be evicted by September if they don't move on. Where would you

go? Somewhere in the area again. whole process starts again.

court orders and they move us here and it's what I've been used to.

cost the public every time gypsies and travellers are evicted but

without enough sites, the bill gets longer and the problem goes on and

on. In Gorseinon, Malcolm says that the local politicians like him,

there were no votes in gypsies and travellers. I know councillors have

been told if they can hear you have had it. It is still true today.At

the official site, Jimmy is anticipating his meeting with

Malcolm. He will expect us to be rough and rowdy. Get him tied up, it

might frighten him. This is who you have come to meet. This is Jimmy.

All right. Pleased to meet you.I am Tim. Let's have a chat. What would

July to know? How can you say you are travelling when you have a

permanent site? What can I say? We are travellers, we were travellers

but we have settled down. Would you like a permanent house? Would you

let live a caravan? No, it's too cold in the winter. A house feels

like a prison to me. Are you Irish? I am Welsh by birth. I used a box

for Wales. I was like heavyweight champion in 1999. People will not

accept you because you are travellers and living caravans.

met someone this morning, they called me a gypsy. There is a

difference between a gypsy and an Irish tinkerer. A gypsy moves about.

And Irish tinkerer is racist, that is like calling a black person the

n-word. You have been racist to me. Do not take offence. We cannot keep

on like this. Next, a quick tour of the site. You have a better Way

ground than the children in Gorseinon. The council is good to

us. How do you make a living?Scrap. Anything I get, I work hard for it.

That is the way any young man should be. If you get up and work you

should be working. Not into the asphalt? A lot of people have been

coming in, Irish, laying ass out, quick and away. Many may not be

travellers. They are Irish. They are putting on the accent. Is there

anything the community can do to change perceptions? It will not

happen in my lifetime. Travellers I looked at and despised in society.

It will not happen any time soon. Try to mix with the community.

do, travellers try to mix but we keep getting pushed out. It is

they,. People say we are thieving bustards. What you object to?

Caravan life and the mess that is left behind and the thieving.

is painting everyone with the same brush. Not all travellers alike

that. I appreciate that. But when one does it, it is a stigma that

goes right three. Jimmy except some travellers can be prejudiced.

both sides. It is travellers as well, that is your way of living,

this is our way of living, as no -- as long as no one is breaking the

law. This is a sensitive issue. one from the council would be

interviewed. They are currently assessing thousands of objections to

the plans. The council says a site will be built but as yet no one

knows where or when. Back in Newport, and today after looking at

hundreds of possible locations, councillors are about to make a

tough decision. They know they won't please everyone. Tom Hendry and bass

are representing the gypsies, Carly and local protesters are the other

side. If the land is allocated as planned, there is no financial

gain. Housing is having some safe for children to grow and flat --

grow and play. It's a basic human right. It would not serve human

rights to make money. The council would not be interviewed about the

plans. There was a heated debate inside the chamber but we weren't

allowed to film it. Eventually they decided Ringland is the right place

but Carly and the protesters are not giving up. Our plan now for the

local residents is getting together and proceeding with legal action

against the council. The plan will still have to be approved by Welsh

government. It could be months before the prices and the city's

other gypsy families know where they will end up. We want our own site, a

home to say is our own and where we can stay all the time and safe for

the kids. The Welsh government has offered councils grants to pay for

new sites that much of the money still hasn't been used. Assembly

member Julie Morgan shares the cross-party committee gypsies and

travellers and says a new law will force councils to deal with the

issue. We have to grasp the nettle and find places for people to live,

they have human rights. But if councils do not do it, what

sanctions will be applied against them? I cannot tell you. I do not

know. Should sanctions be applied? Ultimately, every effort will have

to be made to ensure they do it. Housing Bill which could change

everything for the families we have met, could become law next year.

now, Christine is determined to live her way. I was raised like this as a

child. And my family before me, I will not leave it off. If I have to

live like this without water and electric, I will fight for it. But

Bernard and his family will be on the move again soon. And Malcolm's

visit has given him cause for thought. Cheers, boy. You're no

different my boy. Just better looking! Do you think the impression

you had and the one you gave earlier might be a little bit prejudiced?

Could be. He is a Welsh boy with a broad Irish accent. That is what you

found out. If I met him in Swansea I would not know the difference. I

cannot understand why he cannot live in a house with a family he has got.

Do you regret anything you have said? No, not all of it. Some of it.

Just a bit. He seems quite a nice bloke. It could take a long time

before we know if building a new site will build bridges between

communities. Jimmy is keeping an open mind. I hope it has a different