Cop-Out on Drugs? Week In Week Out


Cop-Out on Drugs?

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An ex-cop says no and believes Wales could plot its own course.

:00:00.:00:12.

We need to decriminalise, a fresh new approach.

:00:13.:00:26.

Tonight we put his views to the test.

:00:27.:00:28.

We're human beings at the end of the day.

:00:29.:00:34.

We travel to Portugal to see their new radical approach.

:00:35.:00:43.

They trust does and they feel safe with others.

:00:44.:00:47.

A lot of people, they should stay illegal.

:00:48.:00:56.

We go to Wrexham to see their problems with drug use.

:00:57.:00:58.

And ask could Arfon Jones' controversial

:00:59.:01:03.

Do they want a drug shooting gallery that could sustain a drug using

:01:04.:01:14.

lifestyle? Do they really want that? It's Friday morning,

:01:15.:01:18.

in Cardiff city centre, and Mick's just had his fix

:01:19.:01:23.

for the day. I usually get down here about

:01:24.:01:42.

7:30am. Nice one. Cheers. Thanks. I buy a ?10 bag. It should last nine

:01:43.:01:54.

hours before you start withdrawal. You know what I mean? I've seen it

:01:55.:02:01.

change on the streets for the worse. It's bad out there now. People

:02:02.:02:05.

stabbing each other in the back. Just for the sake of five or six

:02:06.:02:07.

quid. He's one of the almost 50,000 people

:02:08.:02:10.

in Wales with a drug problem. I use street drugs. I've been

:02:11.:02:26.

self-medicating for 16 years. Same. Maybe a bit longer.

:02:27.:02:31.

Problem drug users are those who use opioids like heroin,

:02:32.:02:33.

When I ask for help, I'm told to wait six months before they offer me

:02:34.:02:48.

help. I have a family. Five boys. Using class a drugs has just

:02:49.:02:49.

destroyed me. When he is not on the street, Mick

:02:50.:03:18.

is at a day centre. When did you inject today? In the side of my leg.

:03:19.:03:25.

It's a car-park for some, and the streets for others .

:03:26.:03:45.

There's nowhere to go around here. Nowhere to go. You are using the

:03:46.:03:54.

toilet, using the bushes. People look down on as like we are scum.

:03:55.:03:58.

We're not scum. Where human beings at the end of the day.

:03:59.:04:01.

They often get in trouble with the law.

:04:02.:04:06.

The Home Office estimates that under half of acquisitive

:04:07.:04:08.

He just got out of jail yesterday. He's been in the game as long as I

:04:09.:04:24.

have. Maybe longer. What were you in for? Shoplifting for funding the

:04:25.:04:29.

habit. It's what most people do. And it's not just a problem

:04:30.:04:33.

in our capital city. In Wrexham, anxieties over

:04:34.:04:35.

drug use have reached Police and councillors have

:04:36.:04:37.

been at meetings trying We are in fear of these people

:04:38.:04:46.

handing out... They're worried about some

:04:47.:04:59.

of the town's 50 drug users who congregate in the Grosvenor Road

:05:00.:05:01.

area where charities We've got people who are using drugs

:05:02.:05:17.

openly on the street. It may not be an actual problem but it is very

:05:18.:05:23.

worrying for people. It seems that they can go into a chemist and grab

:05:24.:05:29.

a pack fall. They get ten or 20, just use one or two and throw the

:05:30.:05:37.

whole lot away. They are allowed to meet in groups and they threaten

:05:38.:05:40.

people. They don't get the sympathy that some of them, I have to say,

:05:41.:05:42.

need. Arfon Jones is Police

:05:43.:05:45.

and Crime Commissioner for North Wales and a Wrexham

:05:46.:05:47.

councillor, so he's Lots of them are addicted to drugs

:05:48.:05:49.

because of some trauma in life. And he has

:05:50.:06:00.

a radical plan to address these. No way we can arrest our way

:06:01.:06:03.

out of this drugs war. We need to decriminalise,

:06:04.:06:07.

a fresh new approach. Make it a public health

:06:08.:06:17.

issue and put more resources into health

:06:18.:06:27.

to help people with addiction. He's calling for decriminalisation

:06:28.:06:29.

of the possession of drugs and a so-called fix room

:06:30.:06:32.

in the town. Today Arfon Jones is with

:06:33.:06:35.

drug-worker Pete Jones who's taking him to a popular spot

:06:36.:06:40.

used by drug users, This is what people

:06:41.:06:43.

are worried about. Clean needles are issued to drug

:06:44.:06:52.

users to reduce the risk of disease. But many used ones

:06:53.:06:55.

are left lying around. It has got a long tip on it. That

:06:56.:07:11.

goes safely inside the box. I just close it up.

:07:12.:07:13.

The council estimates a quarter of a million

:07:14.:07:14.

needles were issued in Wrexham last year.

:07:15.:07:17.

Pete Jones says most are returned to needle exchanges,

:07:18.:07:19.

An orange tip there. Can you see? Peter's doing a wonderful job,

:07:20.:07:34.

voluntarily, not getting paid. It's a dirty job that needs doing. We

:07:35.:07:39.

need to clean this up and we also need to stop it getting out there in

:07:40.:07:44.

the first place. We need a fix room. So people who are dependent on

:07:45.:07:51.

opiates can go somewhere safe and clean to inject and so they don't

:07:52.:07:54.

dispose their paraphernalia like they do here.

:07:55.:07:58.

Ty Croeso is where Pete helps run various services for the homeless

:07:59.:08:04.

and substance abusers, including this needle exchange,

:08:05.:08:07.

which is causing so much controversy locally.

:08:08.:08:12.

What happens when a person comes in here now to see you? They will have

:08:13.:08:21.

a chat with me when I established what they will be using. For

:08:22.:08:27.

example, they might want a one milk syringe and a couple to cook up

:08:28.:08:32.

their drug of choice. That has a filter in it to get rid of debris.

:08:33.:08:37.

This is all about harm reduction. You don't want somebody using

:08:38.:08:45.

somebody's used equipment because then you could be providing an

:08:46.:08:46.

environment for infection. Arfon Jones thinks things would be

:08:47.:08:49.

even safer for drug users if they could also consume the drugs

:08:50.:08:52.

on these premises, How would this go down with current

:08:53.:08:54.

user Luke and former addict Mark? Would you find this helpful and

:08:55.:09:08.

safer if you were allowed to use this building to inject? There

:09:09.:09:16.

should be somewhere to go to inject properly, supervised by a nurse in

:09:17.:09:21.

case anything went wrong, and that. I used to go behind the council

:09:22.:09:25.

houses to inject and I was always scared that the police would catch

:09:26.:09:30.

me injecting and I might rush and miss and do something seriously

:09:31.:09:34.

wrong to my body. Which I have done in my past. I've been walking around

:09:35.:09:42.

with blood all over me. As a user, I'd like to say yes but I'm also of

:09:43.:09:50.

the opinion that, maybe, no. Even though I am a user, I think it might

:09:51.:09:55.

glorify it all, do you know what I mean?

:09:56.:09:59.

The Police Commissioner says a fix room could be where addicts come

:10:00.:10:02.

But he wants to go even further and have the NHS prescribe pure

:10:03.:10:07.

medical grade heroin substitutes as part of supervised treatment

:10:08.:10:09.

But, what is important is that you have support there.

:10:10.:10:13.

It is not just a question of allowing them to inject their own

:10:14.:10:17.

drugs, you need to have nurses there just in case

:10:18.:10:19.

You need to have naloxon so that they can treat

:10:20.:10:22.

So allowing them to use a fix room is just part of the answer.

:10:23.:10:29.

You know. It is to make it a health issue.

:10:30.:10:33.

The Police Commissioner looks to Switzerland as an example.

:10:34.:10:37.

We went there fifteen years ago to see the approach,

:10:38.:10:40.

meeting Peter Richard, addicted to heroin for 25 years.

:10:41.:10:50.

One is working every day, as family, good friends, life can be very well,

:10:51.:10:56.

even as a heroin addict. The Swiss have clinics where addicts

:10:57.:11:00.

inject themselves with medical grade heroin supplied by their health

:11:01.:11:04.

service We spoke to Peter this month

:11:05.:11:05.

and he told us after five years at this clinic

:11:06.:11:11.

he felt ready to leave. He's in good health and says

:11:12.:11:15.

he has no cravings for any drugs. The Swiss have collected a lot

:11:16.:11:18.

of hard data on their new system and its supporters say it actually

:11:19.:11:22.

saves money because There are those who are sceptical

:11:23.:11:24.

the Swiss approach would work here. David Raynes was once

:11:25.:11:35.

a customs and excise drugs intelligence officer for Wales

:11:36.:11:37.

and the West country. He's doubtful any kind of fix room

:11:38.:11:39.

would be acceptable. Switzerland is a very small country.

:11:40.:11:51.

It's very different. You can't necessarily take the situation in

:11:52.:11:55.

one tiny country and extrapolate that across a country like the UK

:11:56.:12:01.

with a population approaching 70 million. If you are going to have

:12:02.:12:06.

shooting galleries in London, you'd probably need 20. That's a huge

:12:07.:12:08.

cost. a shooting gallery that

:12:09.:12:10.

would sustain a drug- But it could be cheaper? Yes. But it

:12:11.:12:37.

costs money. You'd have to take the money out of the NHS. That money

:12:38.:12:41.

could be used to treat people with cancer. It would be a very hard

:12:42.:12:45.

sell. When people can't get drugs for cancer. What would the reaction

:12:46.:12:52.

be if you give this money and go short on providing for cancer drugs?

:12:53.:12:59.

At this moment in time, there are ?12 million for drugs in North Wales

:13:00.:13:03.

and we need to look at spending that better and be more effective in how

:13:04.:13:04.

we spend it. Asked about the prospect

:13:05.:13:07.

of so-called fix rooms, the Welsh Government said it wasn't

:13:08.:13:09.

a straightforward issue under UK legislation,

:13:10.:13:12.

but pointed out there was a multi- agency steering group looking

:13:13.:13:15.

at evidence and considering the need My other children and friends were

:13:16.:13:34.

saying, Natalie is on drugs, and I didn't believe them. She promised

:13:35.:13:36.

me, she swore. Nathalie was on hard

:13:37.:13:40.

drugs for ten years. I think there is a case for six

:13:41.:13:42.

to heroin addiction. I think there is a case for six

:13:43.:14:06.

rooms. I don't. You are helping them with their fix. What if somebody

:14:07.:14:13.

bought a drug and it wasn't heroin, and they dropped it on the floor,

:14:14.:14:18.

who is to blame? Youthful giving them the needle? You can't test each

:14:19.:14:25.

one that is coming in. You don't know if it is heroin or not. And

:14:26.:14:30.

secondly, it is a class a drug, isn't it, like Coke and other drugs.

:14:31.:14:37.

So you are letting somebody who is carrying a class a drug into this

:14:38.:14:42.

room. You are giving them the needle to inject themselves, and you are

:14:43.:14:47.

standing there watching them illegally. But they are addicts. It

:14:48.:14:54.

doesn't matter. They are still doing it illegally.

:14:55.:15:05.

Enforcing the law on drugs is costing billions worldwide.

:15:06.:15:12.

surveillance operation, tracking drugs coming

:15:13.:15:16.

Just the night before they busted a dealer in Yorkshire,

:15:17.:15:20.

seizing a firearm and a significant amount of cash.

:15:21.:15:22.

Six arrests at three different sites in Yorkshire. I think the drug scene

:15:23.:15:28.

in North Wales would be akin to anywhere inning and in Wales.

:15:29.:15:34.

I wouldn't describe it as out of control,

:15:35.:15:36.

Good successes over last few years and people have

:15:37.:15:40.

Officers are busy at the other end of the scale too-

:15:41.:15:52.

policing the effects of drug-taking on the user and the wider community.

:15:53.:15:59.

One of their biggest challenges is so called legal highs - new

:16:00.:16:02.

psychoactive substances like black mamba and spice which mimic

:16:03.:16:04.

They are causing me significant concerns.

:16:05.:16:10.

It is still untested what the long-term effects of taking these

:16:11.:16:18.

drugs will be. But we are coming across particularly young males with

:16:19.:16:27.

some sort of psychosis, lying prostrate on the street, and members

:16:28.:16:31.

of the public are alarmed, and that is an illegal drugs they are taking.

:16:32.:16:37.

Over a period of two months Wrexham police patrolled the streets

:16:38.:16:40.

for an extra two and half thousand hours in response to

:16:41.:16:42.

But Chief Inspector Jolly says this can't go on.

:16:43.:16:46.

There's a sustainability issue for me here

:16:47.:16:49.

The Commissioner says the real solution, apart from fix room

:16:50.:16:52.

is to decriminalise the possession of all drugs.

:16:53.:16:56.

We need to think bigger and how to problem solve it and put together

:16:57.:17:00.

sustainable solutions. The commissioner says that the

:17:01.:17:18.

solution is decriminalising drugs. Should we be wasting valuable

:17:19.:17:22.

resources on something that is not causing harm like a small amount of

:17:23.:17:27.

cannabis when there is organised crime going on around the supply of

:17:28.:17:31.

cocaine and heroin when people are being killed in gangland killings in

:17:32.:17:38.

Manchester and Liverpool. That is where the resources should be, not

:17:39.:17:41.

arresting people with a small amount of drugs. Police insist that there

:17:42.:17:58.

resources are already proportionate, encouraging people towards

:17:59.:18:05.

rehabilitation. In America, some drugs are already decriminalised.

:18:06.:18:09.

The MP for the Rhondda Chris Bryant lost his mother

:18:10.:18:11.

He's against a more liberal attitude to drugs.

:18:12.:18:14.

It preys on the parts of your subconscious that you are not happy

:18:15.:18:19.

with, and it turns you into a different human being. And I just

:18:20.:18:27.

don't want us as a country, as a Parliament, to say, you know what?

:18:28.:18:32.

Play with that. Have a go. It doesn't matter. In the end, it

:18:33.:18:36.

doesn't really matter. Because it does. But the Liberal lies as are

:18:37.:18:41.

saying they are not calling for any of these changes because they want

:18:42.:18:47.

to see an increase in drugs or normalising it. I don't believe it.

:18:48.:18:52.

They say they want to reduce it by regulating. I think there are some

:18:53.:18:57.

people who, because in their ideological mindset, they go, do you

:18:58.:19:03.

know what? I want to liberalised. I don't think it should be illegal,

:19:04.:19:06.

and that is the end of it. And my best argument I have got is it would

:19:07.:19:09.

be better for everybody, and I just don't buy it.

:19:10.:19:22.

We brought Arfon Jones to a country that decriminalised drugs 15 years

:19:23.:19:35.

ago. I have heard from other people that it is not a magic will it,

:19:36.:19:40.

decriminalisation, so I am here to see for myself on the front line

:19:41.:19:45.

with a bit of scepticism, and I remain to be convinced.

:19:46.:19:56.

The first thing they tell you here is they haven't

:19:57.:19:58.

Long time since I've been out with sirens .

:19:59.:20:02.

Ahead of us, two white vans packed with drugs seized from traffickers.

:20:03.:20:07.

Three tonnes of hard and soft drugs, worth tens of millions

:20:08.:20:11.

of pounds, are brought to an incinerator.

:20:12.:20:13.

The supply and possession of drugs here is still illegal.

:20:14.:20:22.

It is part of a big package that has been seized.

:20:23.:20:31.

Narcotics are seized and burnt, traffickers jailed.

:20:32.:20:32.

The change here is subtle, although you get a clue on the streets.

:20:33.:20:49.

Marta and Rui are health workers for a charity that

:20:50.:20:52.

There are lot of crack cocaine smokers and sex workers

:20:53.:20:58.

Some of them don't have a mother or father. Some of them look on us as

:20:59.:21:09.

the family. They become sisters and brothers. They trust us, and they

:21:10.:21:12.

feel safe with us. They say it's become much easier

:21:13.:21:18.

to help people since Portugal reduced the penalties for drug

:21:19.:21:21.

possession 15 years ago. Argentina, a crack addict,

:21:22.:21:23.

told us she feels safer asking This woman's getting foil

:21:24.:21:26.

to smoke crack cocaine. All within yards of the local

:21:27.:22:00.

police, who don't bat an eyelid. Me feel very secure with us. That

:22:01.:22:11.

the police force won't do anything to them.

:22:12.:22:14.

supply of any drugs, with more than ten days'

:22:15.:22:34.

They take action. If it is less, they get sent to a dissuasion

:22:35.:22:39.

commission. Pedro is already getting treated

:22:40.:22:42.

for heroin addiction. So he is told firmly

:22:43.:22:44.

to stick with the programme A social worker was brought

:22:45.:22:46.

in to help him sort out his life. There will be penalties

:22:47.:22:50.

if he's back again. If a drug user is in need of help,

:22:51.:23:00.

or if you want some sort of counselling or some sort of

:23:01.:23:04.

referral, I am in a much better position to provide them with that

:23:05.:23:07.

help than a judge would be. Because the judges and the courts were built

:23:08.:23:15.

under the assumption that if you hand out sanctions, that person

:23:16.:23:20.

would never do that again, and that might work if you are talking about

:23:21.:23:24.

someone that robbed the bank, but for drug users, it might not work as

:23:25.:23:26.

well as that. This is the unique

:23:27.:23:28.

thing about Portugal. Some countries have so-called drugs

:23:29.:23:30.

courts, but here they have effectively moved drug use away

:23:31.:23:32.

from police and courts Nuno says if they are coming to the

:23:33.:23:51.

health service, they can get people to treatment more quickly.

:23:52.:23:56.

Before austerity measures cut the Portuguese health budget,

:23:57.:23:58.

drug users could get in here within a week of a referral

:23:59.:24:01.

In the detox area, we met 24-year-old Ana Branco.

:24:02.:24:11.

She referred herself here, fearing her crack

:24:12.:24:12.

Specman free thank you very much. She said she is taking medication

:24:13.:24:25.

for anxiety and depression and for withdrawal of cocaine. She is also

:24:26.:24:31.

on a methadone programme, and now she is decreasing her dose.

:24:32.:24:34.

The staff here say decriminalisation has taken the stigma away

:24:35.:24:37.

from addiction but more importantly it's been accompanied with a lot

:24:38.:24:39.

Both liberals and conservatives can be selective about

:24:40.:24:49.

So for another view, we took Arfon Jones to Europe's

:24:50.:24:57.

independent drug monitoring agency, also based in Lisbon.

:24:58.:25:06.

The Portuguese change is consistent and coherent, set ever body in

:25:07.:25:12.

Portugal knows what is happening to a drug user, whereas in other

:25:13.:25:17.

countries, a doctor might give you one answer, a policeman might give

:25:18.:25:20.

you another answer, and a Government official might give you a third.

:25:21.:25:24.

The agency say drug use figures in Portugal are broadly in line

:25:25.:25:27.

with other European countries-some up, some are down.

:25:28.:25:29.

Some senior police officers were privately sceptical at first.

:25:30.:25:31.

Now they say the policy's working for them, saying it allows them

:25:32.:25:34.

Finally, we took Arfon Jones to meet with the architect

:25:35.:25:42.

Dr Goulao has become well-known internationally,

:25:43.:25:50.

He says the policy's worked for Portugal, but he's not convinced

:25:51.:25:52.

Our drug problems were present across all social groups

:25:53.:26:03.

But probably in your country things are much more confined to

:26:04.:26:12.

marginalised people, so that makes it more difficult, the acceptance

:26:13.:26:13.

for the rest of society. So a note of caution

:26:14.:26:16.

on the final day. What does the commissioner

:26:17.:26:18.

think having now met In 2001, Portugal was ready for

:26:19.:26:33.

change. I'm not sure we can say the same thing about England and Wales

:26:34.:26:36.

because of the nature of who is a fact by a diction. Does that put you

:26:37.:26:44.

off? Are you disappointed? It is thought I have, but I don't think we

:26:45.:26:46.

should give up. Arfon Jones accepts he has

:26:47.:26:48.

a big job on to change What does decriminalisation

:26:49.:26:54.

mean to you? Well, it means certain drugs,

:26:55.:27:07.

they won't be arrested for, they can take legally and that's

:27:08.:27:10.

what I think anyway. I don't think much would happen. If

:27:11.:27:27.

the drug is decriminalised, it becomes to do with health, not with

:27:28.:27:31.

the justice system. But that won't help most people anyway, they will

:27:32.:27:35.

put it in a handbag or their pocket, it will be fine. That is not the

:27:36.:27:38.

case. It should stay illegal. Maria's daughter is off heroin now,

:27:39.:27:46.

but the response of families like hers is a challenge

:27:47.:27:49.

for drugs reformers. In the Rhonda, Chris Bryant says

:27:50.:27:51.

we don't know enough about drugs Many are very highly

:27:52.:27:53.

addictive and therefore very Many lead to very

:27:54.:27:59.

chaotic lifestyles. Some prey off other and deeper

:28:00.:28:02.

psychological problems. Which again we don't fully

:28:03.:28:10.

understand and my anxiety is that you would be,

:28:11.:28:15.

not necessarily leading to a massive opening

:28:16.:28:19.

of the doors and the floodgates I don't subscribe to that kind

:28:20.:28:21.

of language at all but if there were an extra 50 people

:28:22.:28:25.

in the Rhondda who ended up taking heroin or crack cocaine,

:28:26.:28:28.

then I think that would be a failure The Home Office told us there are no

:28:29.:28:31.

plans to decriminalise drugs. But is Arfon Jones still

:28:32.:28:38.

convinced of his case? Decriminalisation means that

:28:39.:28:44.

addiction is treated as a disease rather than a crime and I think

:28:45.:28:46.

that is the way forward. That is the way we treat

:28:47.:28:50.

people who are addicted to prescription drugs,

:28:51.:28:53.

those who are addicted to alcohol. So why should people addicted

:28:54.:28:55.

to unlawful drugs be Whatever is the way forward,

:28:56.:28:57.

the possession and supply of drugs continues to have impacts on Welsh

:28:58.:29:05.

communities and individuals. There comes a time where you just

:29:06.:29:11.

get sick and tired of it just At least for John Paul,

:29:12.:29:25.

there's more optimism. I lasted ten months last year

:29:26.:29:35.

without using. My family and kids deserve

:29:36.:29:53.

better than me. I let a lot of people down by

:29:54.:29:59.

sinking back into this way of living. And Week In Week Out is back

:30:00.:30:07.

on Monday night at 8:30pm. And this time tomorrow, it is the Wales

:30:08.:30:11.

Report.

:30:12.:30:14.

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