Scotland: The Edge of Europe

Scotland sits on the very edge of the continent.

How European are we out here on the geographical margin?

For the second time in as many years,

Scotland faces a choice about the kind of country it wants to be.

But this time, the United Kingdom will decide

whether we stay in or leave the European Union -

and Scotland will have just an 8% share of the decision.

The possibility that Scotland will vote to stay inside the EU,

while the UK as a whole votes to leave,

is not remote. It's real.

So what would it mean?

Many on the Remain side -

from Nicola Sturgeon to William Hague -

have warned that it would push Scotland

further down the road to independence -

that if Britain left Europe,

Scotland would eventually leave Britain.

But is that true?

What would a vote to leave do to the arguments

for and against Scottish independence?

Well, it changes them. It changes them dramatically.

Scotland is a small country with a global reach -

and we're quite fond of saying so.

In truth, we have forgotten much of our own story.

For sure, we remember and celebrate the British Empire Scots

who went to Australia, Canada, Africa, India -

but there has also been a big Continental diaspora,

a huge Scottish boot-print in the heart of Europe.

The evidence is there, if you reach back for it.

So, this is a map of the city of Gdansk,

or Danzig, as it's called on this German map,

and clearly there are two large suburbs,

one in the west here, which is called "New Scotland",

"Neu Schottland", in German,

and this one is called the "Suburb of Scotland", or "Ecosse",

and that's in the south of the city,

very close to the densely populated city centre.

But both, by the look of them on this map, substantial suburbs.

English MPs sympathised with the poor Poles

who were, they said, overrun with the worst sort of immigrants.

This letter of 1615 begs King James VI to stem the flow

of disreputable, disruptive and dissolute Scots to Poland.

The Polish state saw it differently.

In this document of 1655, the Polish king grants trading privileges

to two Scots merchants

called Daniel McLauchlan and George Drummond.

Funny to think there was a time

when ordinary Poles railed against Scottish immigration,

when Scots went over there, took their jobs

and undercut their tradesmen.

This was a period where the sea united and the land divided,

that the east coast ports of Scotland

had closer relationships to Bergen in Norway,

to Danzig in Poland-Lithuania -

what is now referred to, of course, as Gdansk.

Overwhelmingly, those settlements were made up of merchants.

Petty, sometimes. Often petty.

You know, just hucksters going about selling goods.

Some of these Scots, even into the second, third generation,

became high officials

in some of these Polish-Lithuanian towns.

It was today's dynamic in reverse -

Poland offering tens of thousands of Scots a better life

than their own country could.

When we think of the country at that time,

we think of it as disadvantaged, as poor,

as losing out on the...the race for colonies.

But then if you shift the focus

and remember that there was indeed - not a formal Scottish Empire,

but a very important Scottish commercial empire in Europe.

Much more significant

than any of the attempts to establish links with the Americas.

The point is this - that before Union with England

made Scotland part of a non-European global empire,

Scotland formed natural links with its neighbours across the North Sea.

The Baltic port city of Gdansk has for centuries been a place

of European integration - a trading magnet that has drawn in communities

of Russians, Germans, Jews, Dutch, Scandinavians, and above all, Scots.

The Scots formed colonies here -

remembered to this day in the names of those suburbs.

We are in the very heart of a district

referred to as Stare Szkoty in Polish,

which literally means "Old Scotland".

If you came as a Scot to Gdansk,

you, of course, could settle in the city, if you have wealth enough.

Those less affluent would settle here -

so there were breweries, tanneries,

shoemakers, bakers, all kinds of profession,

and some of them, due to hard work

and, well, the entrepreneurial spirit...

would arrive at becoming wealthy people.

After the 1707 Union with England,

Scotland turned to face the Atlantic.

Before that, though, generations of Scots on the make landed here.

Their first impressions - the architecture -

would have chimed with the quays and wharfs

of the cities and towns they'd left behind -

recognisably part of the same world.

But this place was vastly more opulent,

offered vastly greater opportunity for advancement.

Most Scots never went back. Slowly they merged into Polish society.

This is a reminder that for most of our history,

the sea hasn't been a barrier, but a point of connection.

It hasn't separated people, but joined them together,

so that communities that inhabit the shores of the North Sea

and the Baltic are united by this into a single community,

a trading bloc.

The sea has been a trading route, a migration corridor.

And it would have drawn populations from the sea ports

of the east of Scotland right across the Baltic

and down the Vistula Valley into the very heart of Poland,

and the heart of Europe.

After decades in the deep freeze of Communism,

Poland is re-emerging as an economic and commercial hub.

It is reconnecting with its centuries-old trading hinterland.

When they joined in 2004,

Poles saw the EU as a way of returning to their natural home.

Their economy has been one of the most successful in Europe -

they haven't had a single year of recession.

After we started membership of the European Union,

we are growing.

Every year our-our GDP is growing, our trade is growing.

Do you think Poland has benefited from 12 years in the European Union?

We would never be able to put in so much money to invest,

without the European Union, in our infrastructure.

You see the highways, freeways around-around the cities...

During the last 12 years this development was huge,

and without the European Union support it will never be possible.

Never.

Britain is separated from its neighbours

by more than a strip of water.

Historical experience separates it, too.

Unlike Britain, almost all the other EU countries have,

within living memory, suffered military defeat,

and the humiliation of foreign occupation - Poland above all.

Becoming a part of the European Union, for Poles,

first of all meant - finally - security and stability.

I mean, finally Poland was coming back to its right place,

I mean to the community of Western Christian nations.

And when you say security,

you also mean security for a securely rooted democracy,

democratic governance?

In order to introduce European money to the system, Poland,

like every country, had to introduce various procedures

and enhance all these elements

which used to be suspicious or weakened in terms of transparency -

corruption, conduct of governance, or quality of governance.

This is a country that was wiped off the map of Europe

for 200 years by the competing imperialisms

of its two great neighbours, the Germans and the Russians.

In the Second World War it was defeated by both sides,

occupied by both sides - first Germany and then the Soviet Union.

When it got its liberation in 1989,

it come to view the process of European integration

not as a threat to Polish sovereignty,

but as the best way to protect it.

Not as a threat to Polish democracy, but as the best way to entrench it.

Because the key to both these things lay, as the Poles saw it,

in something they hadn't achieved for hundreds of years -

a long-term sustainable peace with their neighbours.

That's what the European Union means in a place like this.

It's not just about who you trade with. It's something much bigger.

Britain is just not familiar with that experience.

In the biting cold of an early morning at Peterhead,

there aren't many who think the EU has redeemed Britain's democracy

or made more secure its national sovereignty.

Britain was, before Europe, an island of coal surrounded by fish.

And we don't do much of either any more.

HE SHOUTS PRICES

Peterhead remains the biggest fish market in Europe.

55,000 tonnes of white fish come through here every year,

worth £80 million.

It's a lot - but it's nothing like it used to be.

Britain has to share its territorial waters with the rest of Europe.

And Brussels - not London or Holyrood -

decides how much fish the Scottish fleet can be allowed to catch.

In 1975, you voted to stay in the European Community.

Why did you do that?

We were told that it was going to be for a free...

free market, and trading with people.

We just thought it was better.

As the years went by,

Brussels seemed to have more and more control,

and every time they used to come back from quota negotiations,

more and more restrictions were coming in.

It just... It was like a noose that was tightening around our neck

all the time.

So that, in your view,

is all down to Britain's European Union membership?

Absolutely - no question.

And what do you think of that?

Well, you just... You need to look at the side of my boat.

I think my views are quite clear.

And are you confident that the Leave campaign can win this?

It's going to be a hard fight, but I've waited 40 years for this...

..and I'll give it the damn best chance I can, like.

We're just across the North Sea, here, from Norway.

We're a lot closer to Stavanger than we are to London.

In the early 1970s, the Norwegians were negotiating

to join the European Community along with Britain -

they were meant to become full members on the same day as us.

They pulled out at the last minute

because of fears of what membership would do to their fishing industry.

They opted instead to retain full national control

of their vast territorial waters.

40 years on, fisheries are still the second biggest part

of the Norwegian economy, after oil and gas.

A story very different to what happened to fisheries in Scotland.

There's been a lot of pain over the last 20, 25 years.

This port used to have in excess of 400 vessels

sailing in and out of it.

We've got about 70 now, but there are eight on order for next year

and we hope that will, with the increase in quotas,

and I think the greater husbandry of our seas,

it all echoes for a good future.

We are building a future here in Peterhead.

If we get a grant that we're looking for from the EU

and from the Scottish government - this will be knocked down

to make way for a new fish market.

But 40 years in the EU has changed the shape of Scotland's economy.

Drive a few hours west of Peterhead

and you find an emblematic Scottish success story - whisky.

A third of Scotland's whisky exports go to Europe.

EU clout opens up new markets in growing economies around the world.

This is a cask that once contained Muscatel.

And what does it do to the flavour?

I'll show you.

'This industry believes it owes that success in part to EU membership.

'This is a different taste of the EU experience.'

We've built our business models around EU membership,

access to the Single Market,

access to the trade agreements with other countries,

access and support for our intellectual property...

But what do you mean by this?

Give me an example of the kind of regulatory or tariff barriers

you face around the world,

that might emerge in Europe if we weren't members.

A good example, for example, is Vietnam.

Big emerging market, bigger than lots of people think.

The EU has just agreed a free trade agreement with Vietnam.

The current tariff on spirits to Vietnam is 45%.

That will go down to zero under this free trade agreement.

# Let's stay in the Common Market

# In Europe we can be great... #

The last time Britain voted on membership, in 1975,

Scotland was one of the most Eurosceptic parts of the UK -

second only to Northern Ireland

in its doubts about the benefits of Europe.

Now that's reversed - with polls showing Scotland

second only to Northern Ireland in its support for EU membership.

Why? Why have we become more enthusiastic Europeans,

while most of the UK has become more sceptical?

Brexit, you know, the campaign to leave the EU,

is seen very much as a Conservative Party project.

And in Scotland there are an awful lot of people

who will say, "If the Tories want this, I don't".

I think that's a wee bit shallow,

but that brings me on to another point, actually,

which is, I think, just as important for my campaign.

Support for the European Union in Scotland is very widespread,

it's not very deep.

It's not like support for the UK or support for independence

which is felt viscerally by people.

But the SNP have changed, too.

They were once for leaving the EU,

but a generation ago, they adopted

independence in Europe as their defining purpose.

I would prefer a European passport, in the short term,

to the UK one I have.

I would prefer not to have the flag of the Union Jack,

which is now a symbol of hooliganism internationally.

I'd rather have a European flag.

The SNP now argued that independence

did not mean separating or going it alone -

it would still be part of something big and strong.

And talking of the EU,

no matter how England votes, we are staying in.

Opinion polls suggest

Scottish voters overwhelmingly support staying in.

So, if Scotland is, as the SNP government puts it,

dragged out of the EU against the democratic wish of the people,

what will happen? What SHOULD happen?

At this stage, I'm not particularly keen

to get too far into the realms of speculation about that,

for the simple reason that I hope that scenario doesn't arise.

I want Scotland to be independent,

but I wouldn't choose to have another referendum

on the basis that the rest of the UK had chosen to do something

that I think would be damaging for the rest of the UK.

So I'm going to campaign and argue

for not just Scotland to vote to stay in,

but the rest of the UK to do so as well.

Do you accept there will be a question of democratic legitimacy

if Scotland votes to stay in the European Union

but Britain as a whole votes to leave?

There's no question of democratic legitimacy at all.

I mean, first of all...

I think it's really important that Scots approach June 23rd

with ONE question in their mind,

which is, "Should we continue to be members of the EU?"

That's the only question that's being asked.

It's not about Scottish independence,

it would be unfair, I think, to the Scottish people

and the British people, if we put our cross in the box

with any other motivation than answering the question.

But could the SNP build a new case for independence

on the back of a Brexit vote?

One of the big issues in the Scottish independence referendum

was the issue of the currency.

That was difficult enough then.

The idea of trying to sell

the message of Scottish independence

on the currency issue,

in the context of Brexit,

would be very, very difficult.

Before I say what I'm about to say, this is not me saying

that our position on currency was wrong, because I don't think it was,

but, clearly, that was one of a number of areas

where we clearly didn't persuade enough people

that what we were saying was as credible as it needed to be.

So, you know, when you don't win a campaign -

whatever that campaign might be -

it would be incredibly arrogant to assume

that there was nothing more you had to do

in order to persuade people in the future.

There's not much traffic on the bridge at Coldstream these days,

but it does carry a heavy symbolic load.

It was built in the 18th century,

when building bridges between England and Scotland

was designed to cement two kingdoms into one.

In 2014, pro-independence campaigners

said a border here wouldn't matter

because everything moves freely within the EU anyway,

but Brexit would change that.

And remember, 64% of Scotland's exports

go to the rest of the UK.

So, what would this border look like

should this bank of the Tweed stay inside the European Union,

while that bank left?

Would there be a customs post here,

would there be passport controls,

would there be immigration checks? Well, maybe that would be necessary.

There are some countries outside the EU that have got around this.

You can travel, for example, between Sweden and Norway without checks.

You can travel between France and Switzerland without checks.

Would a similar agreement be possible here?

Well, the answer is, nobody knows,

because nobody, as far as we know, has made a plan for that.

The ideal of a Europe without borders has, in any case,

been strained to breaking point.

National governments are reimposing border controls

to impede free movement.

A sensible open-immigration policy

that says we welcome people, but we've got to control...

Ukip has had little electoral success in Scotland,

but does that mean immigration is not an issue here?

If you are wealthy enough and cosmopolitan enough,

then it makes it easier to get a cleaner for a low wage.

But for a lot of working-class communities

and the working-class communities I represented as an MP,

I mean, it has real, major impact on housing,

on schools and on jobs.

Most of those people work and pay taxes, though.

Isn't the immigration community from the European Union

a net contributor to the public purse?

Nobody denies that immigration's a good thing.

I've always believed, you know,

anyone in the progressive left of politics

believes that immigration is a good thing.

But unlimited immigration is not a good thing,

because it has to be managed.

Do you accept that, although it doesn't figure highly

on things that Scottish people say they are concerned about,

immigration is a problem in Scotland,

especially if you are at the lower end of the income bracket?

I absolutely recognise the concerns people have about immigration.

I represent a constituency in the south side of Glasgow

that has a particular concentration of immigration from Eastern Europe.

Notwithstanding some of these particular concerns people have,

the fact is - and this is a fact

that doesn't get spoken about nearly enough -

is that, overall, immigration from other European Union countries

into Scotland and the UK is a net positive benefit,

it actually contributes more to our economy

than people coming here take out,

if that's not too pejorative a way of putting it,

in terms of public services.

And that's before we talk about

the hugely positive social and cultural benefits

of having people come from other parts of the world to Scotland,

just as people from Scotland, for generations,

have gone to every corner of the world.

There is a strong argument that Scotland's problem

has not been immigration at all, but emigration.

In the 20th century, the population of England and Wales grew by 60%.

In Scotland, it grew by just 10%.

That doesn't suggest a country

that has been an irresistible magnet for migrants.

It suggests a country that has struggled

to hold on to its own young people,

who are drawn by better opportunities elsewhere.

There's another part of Scotland's European story

that we've largely forgotten. In the 1940s,

there were 40,000 Polish soldiers stationed in Scotland.

They fought in the liberation of Europe.

Many of them settled here afterwards.

There's a pleasing symmetry to this,

for some of them were descended from Scots

who went to Poland in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Underneath, we've got the emblem of Poland...

Why were there so many Polish people here after the war?

Well, many of them, like my own parents

lived in eastern Poland and, in 1940,

they were exiled up to Siberia.

When Stalin joined the Allies,

they then released the people who were in Siberia,

they escaped through Romania and so on,

into France and then from France into Britain.

What was it like growing up here as a young Polish girl in Scotland,

to Polish parents who didn't even speak the language?

We were expected to be Polish at home.

The minute we crossed the threshold, we were expected to blend in,

to be Scottish, to take part in everything that went on.

Poland came into the EU in 2004

and tens of thousands of Polish people

came to work in Scotland.

That must have had a big impact on the Polish community here, did it?

The church is full of people now,

because, at one time, you had about...

maybe a dozen grey heads and that was it, but it's now full.

One other thing that's really been a boon for us

is we have all these Polish delis now,

which means I can get my kielbasa and all sorts of things,

which was lacking in the past few years.

-That's sausage?

-Sausage, yes.

Tens of thousands more Poles have come to Scotland in the last decade.

Their language is now the second most common in the country.

Jacek Korzeniowski came to Glasgow with his family as a teenager.

You can hear a dual identity,

a fusion of Polish and Scottish nationalities,

even in the way he speaks.

The idea came through my parents speaking to co-workers

in their previous work,

them asking, "Since there is so many Polish people,

"why cannot you get Polish food here? I would like to try it."

Then idea turn into business.

And how do the Polish people integrate here,

do they mix well with the local communities?

I've never felt as being alien here.

I've always felt support.

I've always felt being welcome.

How important is the European Union in all this?

Poland got partitioned after the Second World War.

Unwillingly, we have become part of the Eastern European world.

And now we-we're back in the European Union,

we're in the place where we prefer to be.

If I'm going to take a bit of cooked ham, a little taste of Poland, home,

-what are you going to recommend for me?

-Maybe that ham on the far left.

But Poland's relationship with the EU is shaped

by a radically different historical experience.

It is just not the same for the UK.

Many Leave campaigners acknowledge

the positive role immigration has played here.

For them, leaving the EU is not ending the relationship with Europe,

not ending co-operation with our European neighbours,

simply taking back more control over how we co-operate.

That's very nice, you're right.

It all comes down to trying it, tasting it.

People change their opinion.

If we come out of the EU, then all the powers

that the European Commission and the European Parliament

have over Britain have to go somewhere,

they can't just dissolve into the ether.

Some of them, undoubtedly, will come to Westminster,

but here in Scotland, when it comes, for example,

to fisheries and agriculture,

so we would no longer be members of the Common Agricultural Policy

or the Common Fisheries Policy,

those would be powers that would be handed to ministers at Holyrood.

The defining purpose of your political life

is to repatriate political power,

repatriate from Westminster back to Scotland.

Why would you not want to repatriate power from Brussels as well?

I want Scotland to be independent

so that the choices about when and in what circumstances

we pool our sovereignty are our choices to make.

But I want an independent Scotland

to be an outward-looking, internationalist country,

playing its part in the world, joining with other countries

to deal with the big challenges the world faces,

and in the European Union, imperfect though it is,

the frustrations it will bring from time to time, taken for granted,

it's better to be in there.

The North Sea has connected Scotland

to its neighbours on the other shore for centuries.

From time to time it has also defended Scotland from them -

there are defensive emplacements up and down this coast.

This month it is time, again,

to decide what kind of relationship to seek.

And the result could also change further

Scotland's relationship with its single most important neighbour,

the one it is connected to

not by the sea, but by the land and by history.

Would a vote to leave the European Union

propel Scotland further down the road to independence?

Well, it certainly changes the independence proposition

in ways we haven't even begun to consider yet.

And it would confront Scotland with a new national question -

which union do you want to be part of,

the British one or the European one?

And that's an argument we haven't even started to have yet.