
Browse content similar to The Turbulent Priest. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
| Line | From | To | |
|---|---|---|---|
This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
Father Brian D'Arcy is one of the best known Catholic priests | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
in the UK and Ireland. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:09 | |
'May you have fun and happiness, and although you won't need it,' | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
may the wind be always at your back. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:14 | |
Watch out, the Pope, if you're listening, - | 0:00:14 | 0:00:16 | |
I'm telling you, Father Brian is on your tail! | 0:00:16 | 0:00:19 | |
He's also one of the most controversial. | 0:00:19 | 0:00:22 | |
In a 50-year career as a broadcaster and columnist | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
in one of Ireland's biggest-selling tabloids, the Sunday World, | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
he's repeatedly questioned the Church on many issues. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:33 | |
Why does Rome think it can provide the answer, | 0:00:33 | 0:00:35 | |
when we know it is part of the problem? | 0:00:35 | 0:00:38 | |
But now, Rome has had enough of such dissent. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:42 | |
TRANSLATED FROM ITALIAN | 0:00:44 | 0:00:49 | |
The Vatican has officially censured Brian. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
He must stay on message or be dismissed from the priesthood. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:01 | |
To be treated as some sort of deviant | 0:01:01 | 0:01:07 | |
is, frankly, the most insulting | 0:01:07 | 0:01:11 | |
and devastating thing that has ever happened me. | 0:01:11 | 0:01:15 | |
Brian D'Arcy faces the biggest dilemma of his life - | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
continue to speak out and risk expulsion, or toe the Vatican line. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
Is the price of being a priest that you stay quiet, | 0:01:26 | 0:01:28 | |
that you don't be a whistle blower? | 0:01:28 | 0:01:32 | |
The price of dying a priest is that... | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
you don't...speak the truth? | 0:01:36 | 0:01:40 | |
Good morning, cows. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
Hello, are you doing well? | 0:01:59 | 0:02:00 | |
I have to get the church open as usual for the people to come, | 0:02:05 | 0:02:08 | |
one of my normal duties here. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
For the past 12 years, | 0:02:13 | 0:02:14 | |
Brian's been in charge of the Graan, a monastery in Fermanagh. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:19 | |
He belongs to a religious order called the Passionists, | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
which means he doesn't have a parish. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
But he's on call for people in search of spiritual help | 0:02:25 | 0:02:29 | |
at key moments in their lives, big and small. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
Be with you now. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:35 | |
You wanted something for a car, did you? | 0:02:37 | 0:02:40 | |
We're off to bless a car. | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
The lady here has a nice car, to be blessed. | 0:02:42 | 0:02:46 | |
How are you? | 0:02:46 | 0:02:47 | |
What sort of car is it? | 0:02:49 | 0:02:51 | |
A Jetta. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:52 | |
Oh, a Jetta! A lovely looking Jetta. We'll do the wee blessing here. | 0:02:52 | 0:02:55 | |
Keep them safe on the roads. | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
May they never be hurt. May they never hurt others. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
Father, Son and Holy spirit, amen. | 0:03:05 | 0:03:07 | |
-You go to England to buy her? -No, just in Skea. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:11 | |
-Oh, you bought it in Skea. -I've been searching for a while now | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
-so I saw it and I thought, "That's the one." -That's the one. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
Well, more power to your elbow. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:17 | |
-It's a lovely car. Diesel, is she? -Yeah, yeah, 1.9. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
1.9, oh, good. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
My daughter, Joanne. | 0:03:23 | 0:03:24 | |
-She's really pregnant. -Oh, right. | 0:03:24 | 0:03:26 | |
Over nine months pregnant, so she is heavily pregnant, | 0:03:26 | 0:03:28 | |
OK, come on ahead, this way here. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
When are you due? | 0:03:32 | 0:03:34 | |
I was due on Sunday. | 0:03:34 | 0:03:35 | |
-Oh, God, we'd better do a good blessing here, eh? -Yes. | 0:03:35 | 0:03:40 | |
For the past 50 years, | 0:03:41 | 0:03:43 | |
Brian D'Arcy has made the needs of ordinary people his priority. | 0:03:43 | 0:03:47 | |
Hello, how are you? Good. | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
If those walls could talk, | 0:03:52 | 0:03:53 | |
then you'll hear what the real Catholic Church is about. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:56 | |
What's actually the glue that is keeping the Catholic Church | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
together are the decent priests on the ground doing ordinary things | 0:04:00 | 0:04:05 | |
every day of the week, and without that, you know, | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
the whole thing would have disintegrated long ago. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:12 | |
But actually, as long as you have that, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:14 | |
it doesn't matter all that much about the upper echelons, | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
as long as they leave us alone to get on with our work. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:20 | |
Yes, I'm looking for... Can I order four boxes of your altar wine? | 0:04:20 | 0:04:26 | |
He's brought this ethos of listening and talking to ordinary Catholics | 0:04:28 | 0:04:32 | |
into the public arena through his writing and journalism. | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
But one Sunday World article has nearly cost him his job. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
In a double page spread, | 0:04:43 | 0:04:44 | |
Brian criticised some of the Church's core beliefs. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
"If we were serious, passing on real power to committed believers, | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
"there would be an end to compulsory celibacy, | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
"accepting that there should be a discussion about women priests, | 0:04:59 | 0:05:03 | |
"gay people who want to live a spiritual life..." | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
In the same article, he also criticised | 0:05:07 | 0:05:10 | |
Rome's handling of the clerical sex abuse scandal. | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
"Institutions protect themselves at all costs. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:17 | |
"Individuals and victims were, and still are, disposable." | 0:05:17 | 0:05:20 | |
After the article was published, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
Brian was contacted by the head of his order. | 0:05:24 | 0:05:27 | |
I got a phone call from my Provincial. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:30 | |
He said he'd like to meet me, not in the Graan. | 0:05:30 | 0:05:32 | |
So, I said, "Oh, that's unusual, Pat," | 0:05:32 | 0:05:36 | |
and he said, "Yeah." | 0:05:36 | 0:05:38 | |
So, he said, "We'll meet halfway, quietly in a car park." | 0:05:38 | 0:05:41 | |
And the sweat broke out on me. | 0:05:41 | 0:05:44 | |
Brian's superiors were sent | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
a strongly worded letter by the Vatican. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:50 | |
It accused the Sunday World article | 0:05:52 | 0:05:54 | |
of causing scandal and confusion to the faithful. | 0:05:54 | 0:05:59 | |
I just can't understand why the Vatican is suddenly worried | 0:05:59 | 0:06:04 | |
about what I'm writing in the Sunday World. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:06 | |
It sets a real doubt in my mind as to where the Church, | 0:06:06 | 0:06:11 | |
as an organisation, is going. | 0:06:11 | 0:06:14 | |
If Brian is to toe the Vatican line, every controversial article | 0:06:15 | 0:06:20 | |
or broadcast should first be cleared by an official church censor. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
This lack of journalistic freedom has forced Brian to question | 0:06:25 | 0:06:28 | |
whether he can remain a priest. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
For the past year, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
Brian has wrestled privately with his dilemma. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:39 | |
How are you, Mary? | 0:06:39 | 0:06:40 | |
Jesus, I'm a bit broken this evening. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:45 | |
But news of his censure has been leaked to the worldwide media. | 0:06:45 | 0:06:51 | |
It's caused a frenzy of activity in the Graan. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:54 | |
Every institution eventually becomes irrelevant, | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
and as it becomes irrelevant, it becomes more fundamentalist. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:04 | |
And as it becomes more fundamentalist, | 0:07:04 | 0:07:07 | |
it becomes more and more disconnected from what it was about. | 0:07:07 | 0:07:12 | |
And, you know, its own fundamentalism is the seeds of its own destruction. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:17 | |
All hell broke loose today about 12 o'clock. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
The girls have been taking down notes from all sorts of people - | 0:07:23 | 0:07:27 | |
Today FM are looking for me, Belfast Telegraph, | 0:07:27 | 0:07:30 | |
Gerry McArdle of RTE, Irish Daily Mail. | 0:07:30 | 0:07:33 | |
And then there's a nice wee one - "Joan from County Antrim | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
"rang to say she's so upset, and wants you to know | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
"that she will be praying for you." | 0:07:40 | 0:07:42 | |
So, I obviously won't be able to get to any of those this evening | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
because my first duty is to go out and say Mass, | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
since I'm still a priest in good standing - for this evening, anyway. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
I wonder you're here tonight at all, to listen to a heretic! | 0:08:08 | 0:08:12 | |
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. | 0:08:12 | 0:08:16 | |
Sorry for interrupting you. Can I say something | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
on behalf of everybody here and everybody for many miles around? | 0:08:20 | 0:08:25 | |
You're integrity, you're truth and you're inspiration. | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
I think all of us just want to say, we're with you. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
Oh, God love you. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:33 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:08:33 | 0:08:36 | |
Oh, Betsy, how are you? God love you. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:50 | |
I'm so, so sorry. | 0:08:50 | 0:08:51 | |
You don't deserve this. | 0:08:53 | 0:08:55 | |
We're OK. We'll get through it, don't worry. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:01 | |
I know you will, but you shouldn't have to. | 0:09:01 | 0:09:04 | |
Brian's relieved he has the backing of his congregation. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
But he's wary of how his Church peers will react. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:13 | |
He's heading to a meeting with the rest of his order. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
It'll be the first time he's had to face most of them | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
since he was censured. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
Many of my peers see me as an absolute failure. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:35 | |
People will say, "He's not a safe pair of hands if the Vatican don't like him." | 0:09:36 | 0:09:40 | |
Because I'm not the kind of priest | 0:09:41 | 0:09:43 | |
any clerical structure wants a priest to be. | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
I had the choice of being a priest's priest or a people's priest. | 0:09:47 | 0:09:51 | |
And sadly, the difficulty is, | 0:09:51 | 0:09:52 | |
you cannot be both in the present Church. | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
And I'm not usually sad, I really am not usually sad. | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
But I'm pathetically sad at the moment. | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
I could go in there and everybody will shake hands with me | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
and say, "How are you Brian, how are you keeping? | 0:10:08 | 0:10:11 | |
"Manchester United lost, you must be down about that, | 0:10:11 | 0:10:13 | |
"Fermanagh's not doing that well," but nobody will say to you, | 0:10:13 | 0:10:16 | |
"How does it feel to be such an outcast of the church you've given your life to?" | 0:10:16 | 0:10:22 | |
The stakes are high. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:23 | |
The order will decide whether Brian can stay in his job | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
at the Graan for another four years. | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
He has no say in their decision. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
His worst fear is that he'll be reassigned | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
and banished to a remote outpost. | 0:10:37 | 0:10:40 | |
It's pretty difficult to ask a man of my age to change | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
where I live - to pack my bags, cut my traces, cut my roots, | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
cut my family, go somewhere else | 0:10:49 | 0:10:52 | |
and try to found and get the same enthusiasm for a congregation again. | 0:10:52 | 0:10:56 | |
Brian will have to wait three months to learn of his next posting. | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
So I'm looking into stormy waters and no way out. | 0:11:05 | 0:11:09 | |
He'll use the time to contemplate his options. | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
When things are getting really bad, I tend to come up here. | 0:11:25 | 0:11:29 | |
I just sit for a little while | 0:11:29 | 0:11:32 | |
and go back to the innocent altar boy that was up there. | 0:11:32 | 0:11:35 | |
Growing up in Fermanagh, | 0:11:37 | 0:11:39 | |
Brian's life was defined by the Catholic Church. | 0:11:39 | 0:11:43 | |
This is the source of all my faith. So it sort of grounds me. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:48 | |
But he didn't always see his future as a priest. | 0:11:48 | 0:11:52 | |
I was 15, maybe, before the priest said to me, | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
"I think you should be a priest" which was quite a shock to me | 0:11:56 | 0:11:59 | |
because I did not think I should be a priest, at all, | 0:11:59 | 0:12:02 | |
and didn't think I had anything in my life that could... | 0:12:02 | 0:12:06 | |
That was good enough to be a priest. And I probably still don't, really. | 0:12:06 | 0:12:10 | |
At that time, Brian was struggling with a dark secret. | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
He says that, when he was ten, | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
a religious brother at his primary school sexually abused him. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:24 | |
A lot of your emotional level stays at the age you were abused. | 0:12:26 | 0:12:32 | |
And that was a secret to me when somebody pointed that out to me. | 0:12:32 | 0:12:36 | |
And therefore I began to see in myself that this was | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
a very immature guy acting things out. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
Looking for attention. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:44 | |
Allowing yourself to be ruled by the whims | 0:12:44 | 0:12:47 | |
of somebody else outside you - which is exactly what abuse is. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
The abuse didn't end there. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
When Brian was training for the priesthood, | 0:12:56 | 0:12:58 | |
he says he was abused again - this time by a member of his own order. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:03 | |
I later became a Superior of the monastery, | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
and when he was dying he sent for me and asked me to do his funeral. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:12 | |
And told me what to preach. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
How did you do it? | 0:13:16 | 0:13:18 | |
I did it because I was able to do it. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
Why? You didn't have to. | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
I did, because I was Superior. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:29 | |
Did he still have that hold over you? | 0:13:29 | 0:13:31 | |
Mm-hm. Mm-hm. | 0:13:31 | 0:13:34 | |
I think he had. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:38 | |
You're afraid the secret will destroy you. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
Until you realise, "Hey, I've nothing to be afraid of, | 0:13:44 | 0:13:48 | |
"I've nothing to be ashamed of." | 0:13:48 | 0:13:50 | |
And, you know, I can say that clearly now and that is it, | 0:13:50 | 0:13:54 | |
and it's the same when the Vatican came after me, | 0:13:54 | 0:13:56 | |
I could say, "Well, I've nothing to be ashamed of." | 0:13:56 | 0:13:59 | |
"I didn't do anything wrong." | 0:13:59 | 0:14:01 | |
I'm not being angry, I'm not shouting, | 0:14:01 | 0:14:03 | |
but I'm saying, "Hold on a minute, I have a dignity here," | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
And that's me overcoming abuse. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:11 | |
I just can't understand how you went on to be a priest. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:19 | |
Well, here I am... | 0:14:20 | 0:14:22 | |
..50 years later. | 0:14:24 | 0:14:26 | |
How are you all doing? | 0:14:41 | 0:14:43 | |
That's great. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
And how's yourself? You're still saying the wee prayers? | 0:14:45 | 0:14:48 | |
That's good. Nice to see you there. | 0:14:48 | 0:14:50 | |
See you again, all right? Take care. Bye-bye. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:54 | |
Brian's had a long association with the Graan. | 0:14:55 | 0:14:58 | |
All the best, Peter. | 0:14:59 | 0:15:01 | |
50 years ago, he walked into the monastery for the first time, | 0:15:01 | 0:15:06 | |
an unworldly, raw recruit. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:08 | |
At just 17 years old, he said goodbye to life on the outside world | 0:15:10 | 0:15:16 | |
to become a Passionist monk. | 0:15:16 | 0:15:18 | |
This is the very room where I spent most of my year. | 0:15:24 | 0:15:26 | |
Oooh. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:30 | |
It's a lot different. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:32 | |
There's a softness in that, but the time - my time - | 0:15:32 | 0:15:36 | |
it was pitch pine floors and you had leather-soled leather sandals, | 0:15:36 | 0:15:41 | |
so every move you made could be heard and monitored. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
It was almost like whatever is about you that's your natural personality | 0:15:47 | 0:15:52 | |
should disappear and you should look to higher things, | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
become more godlike and less human. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:58 | |
So, therefore, you began to get this impression of yourself that | 0:15:58 | 0:16:01 | |
you were kind of worthless, really, | 0:16:01 | 0:16:03 | |
and you should be grateful for being in here. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:06 | |
It was a kind of gift that you should be grateful for, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:11 | |
rather than something that you should relish, choose, celebrate. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:17 | |
The spirituality of the time was pray, pay, obey. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:22 | |
You did what the parish priest told you. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
If you didn't, you were wrong, you were a sinner. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:29 | |
You had no rights. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:31 | |
You were to beat yourself very hard on your bare bottom, | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
praying, saying five Our Fathers, five Hail Marys | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
and five Glory Be to the Fathers. Slowly - not fast. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:44 | |
So that you gave yourself a good walloping, | 0:16:44 | 0:16:47 | |
to kill the flesh, kill the world. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
You were very malleable, you were idealistic. | 0:16:52 | 0:16:55 | |
You were the perfect material for cults to work on. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
The world Brian had left behind | 0:17:00 | 0:17:03 | |
was on the cusp of radical social change. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
The swinging '60s were dawning. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
Even the Catholic Church was part of this movement. | 0:17:10 | 0:17:13 | |
A month after he joined the Passionists | 0:17:13 | 0:17:15 | |
came a momentous event in Rome. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
"October 11th 1962, a historic moment. | 0:17:20 | 0:17:24 | |
"The opening session of the second Vatican Council." | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
The conservative Church of Brian's youth | 0:17:29 | 0:17:32 | |
was opening up to the modern world. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:34 | |
The Latin Mass was translated into English, | 0:17:34 | 0:17:39 | |
altar rails were removed, and priests were encouraged | 0:17:39 | 0:17:43 | |
to step down from their lofty pulpits and listen to the laity. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
For the past 50 years, Brian has embraced | 0:17:50 | 0:17:54 | |
this spirit of openness with every fibre of his being. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:58 | |
His efforts to reach out to people - in all their guises - | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
have led him to some surprising places, | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
not least the showbiz circuit. | 0:18:05 | 0:18:08 | |
I don't want to do it too often. | 0:18:08 | 0:18:11 | |
Unlike most clerics, Brian D'Arcy's just as at home | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
in the world of entertainment as he is in a church. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:16 | |
-Tom, how are you? -Father Brian, how are you? -Good to see you. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:20 | |
Hello, Frank. How are you? | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
I heard you got censured by the top man. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:23 | |
If you write anything, I'll make sure it goes to the right place! | 0:18:23 | 0:18:27 | |
His early forays into journalism | 0:18:30 | 0:18:33 | |
blossomed into a ministry extending well beyond the monastery gates, | 0:18:33 | 0:18:37 | |
into dance halls and concert arenas. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE | 0:18:43 | 0:18:46 | |
A regular on the chat show circuit, | 0:18:48 | 0:18:51 | |
Brian wasn't afraid to parade himself in the name of populism. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:55 | |
Not a bad pair of legs, Brian! | 0:18:55 | 0:18:57 | |
Not a bad pair of legs at all! How about that? | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:19:01 | 0:19:03 | |
And you turn up here with a hole in your tights! | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
It's the first time I've even touched a pair of tights, | 0:19:08 | 0:19:10 | |
never mind putting them on! | 0:19:10 | 0:19:11 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:19:11 | 0:19:13 | |
But what's made Brian loved by the public | 0:19:16 | 0:19:19 | |
has seen him loathed by some other priests, | 0:19:19 | 0:19:22 | |
especially because of an unprecedented clash | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
with the head of the Irish Church on live television. | 0:19:25 | 0:19:27 | |
Thank you for coming. Do sit down. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:30 | |
Brian was in the audience the night Cardinal Cathal Daly appeared | 0:19:30 | 0:19:35 | |
on a chat show to discuss early revelations about child sex abuse. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:40 | |
It's an old cliche that, after a bishop is ordained... | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
-SHOUTS OF "SHAME!" -Sorry, sorry, sorry... | 0:19:45 | 0:19:48 | |
I don't think what you've said is fair, Cardinal Daly. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
At the end of the day, the Church is perceived as heavy-handed | 0:19:52 | 0:19:56 | |
and out of date and lacking in compassion. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:59 | |
Now why is that? And We can't dismiss it just because... | 0:19:59 | 0:20:02 | |
APPLAUSE | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
Don't dismiss the whole thing because there are some... | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
No, I'm not dismissing it, Cardinal, that's precisely the point... | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
I know you're not, don't dismiss the whole clergy. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
-Nor am I dismissing the whole clergy. -There are some who are working very hard... | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
Nor am I, but they have been let down. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:18 | |
'The phone calls were furious.' | 0:20:18 | 0:20:20 | |
'Terrible phone calls from priests all over the country, | 0:20:22 | 0:20:25 | |
'saying I'd let down the Church, I'd been a disgrace.' | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
It gave me a great lesson on the power of the clerical club, | 0:20:29 | 0:20:33 | |
which I've never forgotten. | 0:20:33 | 0:20:35 | |
It was something that defined a lot of what I am ever since. | 0:20:35 | 0:20:39 | |
I would not be, and am not, liked by priests. | 0:20:39 | 0:20:43 | |
Brian feels he is an isolated voice in Ireland. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
But around the world there are priests calling for liberal reform. | 0:20:49 | 0:20:54 | |
He's on his way to Austria, where a 400-strong union of priests | 0:20:57 | 0:21:01 | |
has also incurred the wrath of the Vatican. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:03 | |
Pope Benedict targeted the Austrians | 0:21:25 | 0:21:27 | |
because they've encouraged their union members to lobby actively | 0:21:27 | 0:21:32 | |
for the reform of some of the Church's core teachings. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
Brian's on his way to meet the priest leading this call to disobedience. | 0:21:35 | 0:21:41 | |
Helmut Schuller has paid a heavy price for his dissidence - | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
demoted from a senior post in the Austrian Church, | 0:21:46 | 0:21:50 | |
he now works as a parish priest outside Vienna. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:54 | |
He remains defiant. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:55 | |
At no moment I thought to leave, because it's my Church. | 0:21:57 | 0:22:01 | |
I want this Church to move, to change, to find renewal, | 0:22:01 | 0:22:06 | |
to find reform, and I have a lot of friends in this Church. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
I don't want to leave it. | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
Do you ever waken at night, as I do, | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
and say, "Am I being more divisive... | 0:22:18 | 0:22:23 | |
"than I should be?" | 0:22:23 | 0:22:25 | |
It's a real danger, but I think the real schism | 0:22:25 | 0:22:30 | |
is between the hierarchy and the people of the Church. | 0:22:30 | 0:22:34 | |
The vast majority of the people will not find what | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
they are looking for in these churches where such priests | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
are preaching the old-fashioned Roman Catholic Church of 1871 or so. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:47 | |
And I think that that is the production of a schism. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:52 | |
And this schism is risked, not by us, | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
but by those who are not really openly listening to the people. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:03 | |
There's times I'm lost, I don't know where to go and what to do. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
Some people tell me, "Keep quiet, keep under the radar, keep going on." | 0:23:06 | 0:23:12 | |
Others say, "Why waste your life running your head against a stone wall?" | 0:23:12 | 0:23:17 | |
Others say, "For God's sake, speak up, be a man, | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
"do what you've always done." | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
I think the last possibility is the only one. | 0:23:23 | 0:23:27 | |
You have to stand up and to speak, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:28 | |
because, as I have heard in Ireland and Great Britain, | 0:23:28 | 0:23:32 | |
your voice is very important for a lot of people. | 0:23:32 | 0:23:35 | |
Let me say first that I decided in 2006 not to go on alone, | 0:23:36 | 0:23:41 | |
because up to this time I was also alone. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:46 | |
I was invited in television, in talk shows for Church questions. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:51 | |
And after, I was phoned by a lot of priests the next day, | 0:23:51 | 0:23:55 | |
and then I thought I should not go on alone, | 0:23:55 | 0:23:58 | |
I should build up a network, I should invite other priests, | 0:23:58 | 0:24:02 | |
so we do it together. | 0:24:02 | 0:24:04 | |
And then I decided with my friends to make this, | 0:24:04 | 0:24:08 | |
to build up this assembly we have now. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:12 | |
They will try to divide us, | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
we should try to come together and to build up this network. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:19 | |
We are not asking, we are not begging, | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
we are beginning, and the reality is growing. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
-And the reality becomes the seed of a new Church? -Yeah. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
While Brian appreciates Helmut's advice about safety in numbers, | 0:24:32 | 0:24:37 | |
he's all too aware of his own limitations. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
'You have to be brave in life. He's very brave.' | 0:24:44 | 0:24:47 | |
'I wouldn't be a Helmut Schuller in Ireland, | 0:24:49 | 0:24:51 | |
'because I wouldn't have the confidence of priests.' | 0:24:51 | 0:24:54 | |
I'm a full-blown lone ranger a lot of the time, | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
simply because of my experiences | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
and because of the nature of my work up to now. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
He's not a lone ranger. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:07 | |
There was strength in the support he gets from other priests. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:11 | |
Brian realises he must go it alone. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:21 | |
But he wonders whether the Institutional Church in Ireland could be open to change. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:32 | |
To test the mood, | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
he's in Dublin for the International Eucharistic Congress. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
-Brian. -How are you? How are you keeping? -Good to see you. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:45 | |
-Nice to see you, too. How's the farm? -Good. -That's good. | 0:25:45 | 0:25:48 | |
65,000 Catholics have travelled from all corners of the world | 0:25:48 | 0:25:52 | |
to celebrate their faith together. | 0:25:52 | 0:25:55 | |
The current head of the Irish Church, Cardinal Sean Brady, | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
is using this platform as a chance to rebuild trust. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
I want to take this opportunity of the 50th International Eucharistic Congress | 0:26:09 | 0:26:13 | |
to apologise for the times when some of us were blind | 0:26:13 | 0:26:18 | |
to your fear, deaf to your cries, and silent in response to your pain. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:24 | |
When I heard there was going to be a Eucharistic Congress, | 0:26:27 | 0:26:30 | |
I wasn't that happy about it because I really thought it was | 0:26:30 | 0:26:32 | |
a plan to draw a line under the abuse crisis. | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
And I didn't like that, I just thought that's not the way to do it, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:40 | |
cos we're not the ones to draw a line under the abuse crisis, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:43 | |
it's the survivors. | 0:26:43 | 0:26:45 | |
-GG. -GG, a few steps down and on to the fourth seat on the right. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:52 | |
Right, lovely, good man. | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
Brian wants to experience for himself | 0:26:54 | 0:26:58 | |
the model of Church on show at the final event in Croke Park. | 0:26:58 | 0:27:02 | |
This is extremely clerical. | 0:27:03 | 0:27:05 | |
It's very much an institutionalised version of religion, | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
but it's not where I'm at home. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:11 | |
Priests at the top, all in white. | 0:27:11 | 0:27:14 | |
Laity down at the back and other places - as usual. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:18 | |
Let's listen to the people, | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
and let's build from the ground up, rather than from the Vatican down. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
But the Vatican is playing to a much bigger gallery beyond the UK and Ireland. | 0:27:29 | 0:27:33 | |
There are 1.2 billion Catholics worldwide. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:37 | |
The biggest growth areas are Africa and Asia, | 0:27:37 | 0:27:40 | |
where there's little appetite for Brian D'Arcy's brand of Western liberalism. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:44 | |
If you look to Africa and Asia, people there, generally speaking, | 0:27:46 | 0:27:51 | |
are more orthodox, and that's where the Church is growing. | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
If the Church is increasingly African or Asian, | 0:27:54 | 0:27:57 | |
their agendas will set our agendas. | 0:27:57 | 0:28:00 | |
Sarah MacDonald writes for the international Catholic newspaper, The Tablet. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:06 | |
Do you think the Catholic Church in the Western world can survive? | 0:28:06 | 0:28:12 | |
Yes, yes, but I think that in order for Catholicism to... | 0:28:12 | 0:28:18 | |
reanimate itself and the wider world, | 0:28:18 | 0:28:21 | |
it has to take some sort of a shift back to setting out its parameters, | 0:28:21 | 0:28:25 | |
setting out its stall, setting out its identity. | 0:28:25 | 0:28:29 | |
The fact of the matter is, your hope for the way the Church | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
would be renewed in the '60s has actually just led | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
to a collapse in religious life. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:39 | |
The Church was so accommodating on some issues, | 0:28:39 | 0:28:42 | |
that nobody was really sure what it was teaching at all. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:45 | |
But people who are coming from a liberal perspective | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
need to recognise that there is a shift. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:51 | |
Those who are from their late teens up to their mid twenties, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:55 | |
the most radical thing they can do amongst their peers | 0:28:55 | 0:28:59 | |
is cleave to something that is structured, | 0:28:59 | 0:29:01 | |
that gives a sense of community and is orthodox. | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
They would see you as representing an ageing, disgruntled minority. | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
But you've a role to temper the move towards ultra-conservatism | 0:29:14 | 0:29:19 | |
within the Church, so engaging in debate and dialogue, | 0:29:19 | 0:29:23 | |
that's where you definitely have a role to play. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:26 | |
Engaging with the Vatican, engaging with the hierarchy here in Ireland. | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
Since the child sex abuse scandal broke, | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
Brian has repeatedly criticised the Irish hierarchy. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:39 | |
Most recently, he questioned whether Cardinal Brady should resign, | 0:29:39 | 0:29:43 | |
following allegations he'd personally mishandled | 0:29:43 | 0:29:47 | |
a complaint about a paedophile priest. | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
Now Brian wonders whether the Irish hierarchy | 0:29:52 | 0:29:54 | |
will wish to engage with him. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:56 | |
Many of them would consider me an enemy of the Church now, | 0:29:56 | 0:30:02 | |
and if they did, it would be very difficult to remain a priest. | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
Keen to extend an olive branch, he's writing a personal letter to Cardinal Brady. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
I would like a conversation about the future shape of the Catholic Church in Ireland, | 0:30:16 | 0:30:21 | |
especially after the Eucharistic Congress. | 0:30:21 | 0:30:25 | |
How can the Catholic Church speak with integrity to the Western world? | 0:30:25 | 0:30:30 | |
Has the Church nothing to say to that group of people? | 0:30:30 | 0:30:34 | |
Rather instead to the growing, | 0:30:34 | 0:30:37 | |
not fully developed communities of the Third World? | 0:30:37 | 0:30:41 | |
The worst case scenario is that we allow them | 0:30:44 | 0:30:48 | |
to impose this legalistic Church again. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
Look what happened - tat's what led to abuse. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
The abuse of children, the abuse of power, | 0:30:55 | 0:30:58 | |
the abuse of the Church itself. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:01 | |
The danger is that the Cardinal will endorse the Vatican censure, | 0:31:04 | 0:31:08 | |
pushing Brian D'Arcy even further out on a limb. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
So he's decided to tackle the traditional mind-set head on. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
'The Church's job is to move the world. | 0:31:19 | 0:31:22 | |
'The Church doesn't move with the world.' | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
He's meeting Father Brian McKevitt, | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
editor of a conservative Catholic newspaper. | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
I feel very afraid when I read some of the things you write, | 0:31:33 | 0:31:37 | |
because I think, "That's very harsh!" | 0:31:37 | 0:31:40 | |
But Brian, when you write in The Sunday World, | 0:31:40 | 0:31:43 | |
you're there as Father Brian D'Arcy. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
So you're there as a priest. | 0:31:45 | 0:31:48 | |
If I speak or write as a priest, then I am, in some way, | 0:31:48 | 0:31:53 | |
a representative of the Church, and I've got to be faithful to that. | 0:31:53 | 0:31:58 | |
-Otherwise, I'm abusing my power, my position. -Not necessarily. | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
I don't think I'm abusing my power as a priest, | 0:32:01 | 0:32:06 | |
and never, certainly, would do that. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:10 | |
What I try to do is give a voice to the people with... | 0:32:10 | 0:32:15 | |
with, eh, reasonableness and encouragement when necessary, | 0:32:15 | 0:32:20 | |
and disagreement when sometimes necessary, | 0:32:20 | 0:32:23 | |
but we're mature adults with a conversation, | 0:32:23 | 0:32:26 | |
we're not talking about the nitty-gritty | 0:32:26 | 0:32:28 | |
of infallible doctrine here, we're talking about people's lives. | 0:32:28 | 0:32:31 | |
A lot of what you write is kind of a candyfloss spirituality. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:37 | |
It looks attractive, but when you actually bite into it, | 0:32:37 | 0:32:41 | |
that... | 0:32:41 | 0:32:43 | |
there's kind of an absence of substance, | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
and an absence of nourishment. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:49 | |
I think that's the point. Do I...? | 0:32:49 | 0:32:52 | |
Would you know my audience better than me? | 0:32:52 | 0:32:56 | |
-And you're not my audience. Do you understand what I mean? -Yeah. | 0:32:56 | 0:33:00 | |
A man with degrees in theology, Dominican, editor of a paper | 0:33:02 | 0:33:07 | |
and he has all the opportunities he wants | 0:33:07 | 0:33:10 | |
to have all the theology he wants. | 0:33:10 | 0:33:13 | |
I'm not thinking of you when I'm writing in the Sunday World. | 0:33:13 | 0:33:17 | |
I'm writing for people who have lost contact with, | 0:33:17 | 0:33:20 | |
often, any Church at all, | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
and certainly have a difficult relationship with the Church. | 0:33:23 | 0:33:28 | |
Yeah, what I'm saying is, are you providing it? | 0:33:28 | 0:33:33 | |
The impression I got from reading the articles was there was | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
a kind of negativity towards the authorities in the Church. | 0:33:38 | 0:33:43 | |
I would say, yes, | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
I've been fairly negative to a lot of what has gone on | 0:33:46 | 0:33:49 | |
-in the last 15 years. -Mm-hmm. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:50 | |
But, if you go out to the road and ask somebody | 0:33:52 | 0:33:54 | |
how they view the leadership of the Church in the last 15 years, | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
they would say it has not been very inspiring - shouldn't I learn from that? | 0:33:58 | 0:34:02 | |
I can certainly see so many faults in the Church, | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
and it drives me crazy at times, | 0:34:05 | 0:34:07 | |
but I'm not going to try and kind of feed that to other people. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:12 | |
I want them to love the Church, despite her sinfulness. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
Now, the Church, I think, is entitled, | 0:34:17 | 0:34:21 | |
with you or with me, to say that you must give | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
the authentic teaching of the Church. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
That you must, to the best of your ability, try and communicate that, | 0:34:28 | 0:34:32 | |
and certainly that you must not in any way undermine that. | 0:34:32 | 0:34:36 | |
I knew he wasn't hearing anything I was saying, or appreciating it. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:47 | |
Or my point of view at all. | 0:34:47 | 0:34:49 | |
And I found that just kind of a dialogue of the deaf. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:53 | |
I've no problem with him calling me candyfloss. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
That's his view. | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
I know it's not the view of the vast majority of readers, | 0:35:01 | 0:35:04 | |
who find a different form of spirituality there | 0:35:04 | 0:35:08 | |
which is just as real as his. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:10 | |
-I just want a couple of Mass cards. -Certainly, no problem. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
For the dead, is it? | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
I want a couple for the dead, but I don't know who for yet. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:29 | |
-I know, but to have them, is it? -To have them, yes. -Yes, of course. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
That's a good idea to have them in the house. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:34 | |
Brian's on his way to officiate | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
at the wedding of a young Fermanagh couple. | 0:35:39 | 0:35:42 | |
They've requested him specifically. | 0:35:42 | 0:35:44 | |
In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:53 | |
I always like to begin the journey with a prayer. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
Recently, somebody said, "Would you leave to get married now?" | 0:35:57 | 0:36:00 | |
And of course, how would you leave to get married at 67 years of age? | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
Come on, Jesus, I'm not that stupid. | 0:36:04 | 0:36:06 | |
Who'd have you at 67?! | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
Some nurse, maybe, to wheel you around in a wheelchair | 0:36:12 | 0:36:15 | |
is about all you'd get at my age. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:17 | |
But a worse thing struck me, actually. Or a more shocking thing. | 0:36:20 | 0:36:25 | |
That, after a life of celibacy, I would be incapable of loving. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
The whole principle of celibacy is that it's supposed to free you to love more. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:34 | |
I'm not sure that I've seen that in many places, actually. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:43 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:36:49 | 0:36:51 | |
-How are you, how are you? -Not too bad. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:53 | |
How are you, lads? God, you clean up well! | 0:36:53 | 0:36:55 | |
-How are you, Marco? How are you doing? -Not so bad. -You're looking great. | 0:36:55 | 0:36:58 | |
There's some seats at the front. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:00 | |
Now, if you're nervous or anything, don't worry - there's no collection. | 0:37:00 | 0:37:04 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:37:04 | 0:37:05 | |
But if you'd like, there's a few wee seats at the front here | 0:37:05 | 0:37:09 | |
if you'd like to come up to them. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:11 | |
When you dress up, you might as well show off. | 0:37:11 | 0:37:13 | |
-Well, Josie. -How are you, Father? | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
-You look gorgeous. -Thank you. | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
-She's on the way, is she? -She's there. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:24 | |
Oh, she's there? That's great. | 0:37:24 | 0:37:25 | |
Now, she's just about to start off now. | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
And she's a vision. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:32 | |
An absolute vision. Don't look now, don't look now! | 0:37:32 | 0:37:35 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:37:35 | 0:37:37 | |
You can look if you want to, I don't mind. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:40 | |
I feel very nervous and insecure | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
and not at all confident about speaking at a wedding. | 0:37:44 | 0:37:47 | |
And the reason is because I'm an old bachelor. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:50 | |
So, Grace and Malcolm would say, "God, I hope he's not going to tell us about marriage | 0:37:50 | 0:37:54 | |
"if he hadn't even the guts to do it himself." | 0:37:54 | 0:37:57 | |
Well, as I say, the Pope's still alive. | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
And an old bachelor's what I'll be! | 0:38:02 | 0:38:03 | |
And at this stage, anyway, who'd take me? | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
'I would have been a much better priest, had I married. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
'I think it would have been that whole thing of sharing your life with somebody else.' | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
And that whole thing of making sacrifices for somebody else. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:21 | |
And also that idea of a companion, | 0:38:21 | 0:38:26 | |
a closeness, friends, somewhere to call home. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:28 | |
-Have you ever been in love? -Yes, I've been in love. | 0:38:30 | 0:38:33 | |
'I did think I would get married. | 0:38:33 | 0:38:36 | |
'I never broke my vows.' | 0:38:36 | 0:38:37 | |
Both of us knew there was nothing wrong with it, | 0:38:37 | 0:38:42 | |
you know, that it wasn't just a sexual attraction, | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
that it was much beyond that, and both of us knew | 0:38:46 | 0:38:49 | |
that we could have been holy and good people and been married. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
And I suppose that's the only anger. | 0:38:54 | 0:38:57 | |
That's why I suppose I do get passionate about the idea | 0:38:57 | 0:39:00 | |
that a priest does not need to be single to be a priest. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:04 | |
'I shouldn't have had to make the choice.' | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
No family deserves a day better... | 0:39:06 | 0:39:08 | |
'If the option to be married was there,' | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
it would be a far more credible Church. | 0:39:12 | 0:39:14 | |
This is a miracle of life that I never really understand - | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
that somebody can find somebody that they love. | 0:39:19 | 0:39:22 | |
Of all the thousands, millions, billions in the world, | 0:39:22 | 0:39:25 | |
seven billion people in the world, | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
well, I wouldn't expect Malcolm | 0:39:27 | 0:39:29 | |
to have gone through all seven billion of them. | 0:39:29 | 0:39:31 | |
Grace probably did. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:33 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:39:33 | 0:39:35 | |
But anyway, isn't it great that the one Malcolm fell totally in love with | 0:39:36 | 0:39:42 | |
was actually the one who fell totally in love with him? | 0:39:42 | 0:39:46 | |
Ask any single person who doesn't want to be single | 0:39:52 | 0:39:56 | |
what it's like... | 0:39:56 | 0:39:57 | |
..and you're a nobody in the world, for a start... | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
Um, you have no place, really, you can call your own, | 0:40:03 | 0:40:08 | |
you've no friendship you can call your own. | 0:40:08 | 0:40:12 | |
You've given your life to everybody else, | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
and find that you have no life at all at the end of it. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
|Where is home? | 0:40:24 | 0:40:26 | |
At the end of my life, I don't have a home. | 0:40:33 | 0:40:37 | |
There's no place I can call home. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
Ideally, religious life is supposed to be a kind of home - it isn't. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:47 | |
Not now, anyway. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:48 | |
Brian's no closer to resolving his dilemma, | 0:41:00 | 0:41:03 | |
and there's still no news about his next posting. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:06 | |
His weeks of contemplation have strengthened the sense | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
that he's swimming against a global tide | 0:41:10 | 0:41:13 | |
and deepened his feeling of isolation. | 0:41:13 | 0:41:16 | |
He's seeking counsel from an old friend. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:25 | |
Hello. How are you? You're more than welcome. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:29 | |
-Good to see you. -Thanks for doing this. | 0:41:29 | 0:41:32 | |
Not at all. My pleasure. | 0:41:32 | 0:41:34 | |
-Come in. -I really appreciate it, Frank. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:36 | |
The actor Frank Kelly, better known to some as Father Jack. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:40 | |
It's the media that's the real enemy. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
Of all the unearthly, unspiritual pleasures! | 0:41:44 | 0:41:47 | |
HE SHOUTS INCOMPREHENSIBLY | 0:41:47 | 0:41:49 | |
Ecumenical...! Yes! | 0:41:49 | 0:41:52 | |
How right you are, Father! How right you are! | 0:41:53 | 0:41:56 | |
We have to straighten out the media. | 0:41:56 | 0:42:00 | |
That's the important thing, Father! | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
And we have to do it... | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
Now! | 0:42:06 | 0:42:08 | |
HE SCREAMS ANGRILY | 0:42:08 | 0:42:10 | |
Did you ever find anything in your life | 0:42:12 | 0:42:15 | |
that was pulling you a little bit away | 0:42:15 | 0:42:17 | |
from being a practising Catholic, as you are, | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
and at the same time sending it up in a very public way? | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
No, I've been in satire all my life. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:29 | |
There is no difficulty for me between my spirituality | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
and my religion and satire. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:34 | |
There was a time when the assumption was that all priests | 0:42:35 | 0:42:39 | |
were very wise and very highly educated. | 0:42:39 | 0:42:41 | |
I grew up in that atmosphere. | 0:42:41 | 0:42:44 | |
But, still, my parents gave me a feeling | 0:42:44 | 0:42:48 | |
that you shouldn't be afraid. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:51 | |
That you should be liberated by faith, rather than intimidated. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:56 | |
-Talking to you now, I don't feel I'm talking to a priest. -Yes. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
You're a man who happens to be a priest. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:01 | |
There's no Roman collar floating in the air over your head. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
Priesthood isn't a thing in inverted commas running around on your shoulder. | 0:43:05 | 0:43:09 | |
It's got to be you. | 0:43:10 | 0:43:12 | |
In humility you have to say, | 0:43:12 | 0:43:15 | |
"Maybe I was wrong, maybe I am wrong." | 0:43:15 | 0:43:18 | |
I stay awake at nights wondering about it. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:20 | |
It's a situation, after 50 years in religious life, | 0:43:20 | 0:43:24 | |
somebody says that I'm not really a reliable priest. | 0:43:24 | 0:43:28 | |
What do you think, as a lay person in the middle of all that? | 0:43:28 | 0:43:30 | |
I think one of the biggest problems facing the Church is that | 0:43:30 | 0:43:35 | |
if it is going to be undemocratic, | 0:43:35 | 0:43:37 | |
how is it going to continue living on in democracies, | 0:43:37 | 0:43:39 | |
where the average citizen is becoming more and more educated? | 0:43:39 | 0:43:43 | |
They're not as bulliable as they were. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:46 | |
Is so much of the repression and oppression from the Church bullying? | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
Is that a good name for it? | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
Well, if you don't know who your accuser is, | 0:43:52 | 0:43:56 | |
and you don't really know a defined nature of your misdeed, | 0:43:56 | 0:44:00 | |
and how long you're going to be left in limbo, | 0:44:00 | 0:44:04 | |
and whether you're going to be transferred, | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
or what the nature of your life is going to be, | 0:44:07 | 0:44:09 | |
and you're a grown, intelligent man | 0:44:09 | 0:44:11 | |
who's never been at odds with the Church before, you're being bullied! | 0:44:11 | 0:44:15 | |
What the hell else are you being but bullied? That's bullying. | 0:44:15 | 0:44:19 | |
Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know what bullying is. | 0:44:19 | 0:44:23 | |
I'm saying - the cheek of me! Who the hell am I to say it? | 0:44:23 | 0:44:27 | |
Well, you're the best known priest in Ireland! | 0:44:27 | 0:44:31 | |
And have been for some time! | 0:44:31 | 0:44:33 | |
I suppose both Frank and myself would, | 0:44:37 | 0:44:41 | |
in different ways, be in show business | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
and therefore we're looked upon as lightweights because of that. | 0:44:44 | 0:44:48 | |
And both of us can be light hearted | 0:44:51 | 0:44:54 | |
and be lightweights when it's necessary. | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
But it's almost like the clown | 0:44:57 | 0:45:00 | |
being the serious thinker behind the happy dress. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:04 | |
I love the way Frank spoke from his heart. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:11 | |
No acting, no sham. | 0:45:11 | 0:45:13 | |
Just a real man on a journey. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:16 | |
And if I can be that... | 0:45:18 | 0:45:20 | |
..God, it'll be a good gift to myself, whatever about anybody else. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:26 | |
Be real. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:27 | |
Forget the sham, just be real. | 0:45:29 | 0:45:31 | |
Name in lights. | 0:45:42 | 0:45:44 | |
Josephine, how are you? | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
Father Brian here, and I'm just going to give you a little blessing. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:16 | |
Don't worry about anything. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
I'll do all the talking and all the praying. | 0:46:20 | 0:46:23 | |
Give Josephine strength and peace of mind. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:29 | |
In the name of the Father... | 0:46:29 | 0:46:30 | |
That's lovely, Father... | 0:46:30 | 0:46:33 | |
..Son, Holy Spirit, amen. | 0:46:34 | 0:46:38 | |
And I absolve you, Josephine, from all the sins of your whole life. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:44 | |
In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, amen. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:50 | |
May all from which you suffer cease and trouble you no more. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:55 | |
That's all right, Josephine, don't worry. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:00 | |
God, the wee woman, she was lovely. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
She's as peaceful as anything. | 0:47:13 | 0:47:16 | |
She's ready to meet the Lord, | 0:47:16 | 0:47:17 | |
and you could see she tried to bless herself | 0:47:17 | 0:47:19 | |
to lift the wee hand with all the wee strength. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:21 | |
Every time I sit down by the side of a bed, say a few prayers, | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
they see it as the presence of God coming to bless them. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
That's worth more to me than all the high-powered theologians | 0:47:29 | 0:47:33 | |
and ministers and papal documents and everything else. | 0:47:33 | 0:47:37 | |
That's what gives me the greatest thrill as a priest. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
Brian wants to canvass one final opinion | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
about his future as a priest, | 0:48:01 | 0:48:03 | |
and it's taken him to Weston-Super-Mare | 0:48:03 | 0:48:05 | |
in south-west England. | 0:48:05 | 0:48:08 | |
Well, Mick! | 0:48:09 | 0:48:11 | |
-My old friend, how are you? -Good to see you! | 0:48:11 | 0:48:13 | |
-It's great to see you. -Welcome to Weston-Super-Mare. | 0:48:13 | 0:48:15 | |
God, I'm sorry for imposing this on you at this hour of the morning. | 0:48:15 | 0:48:18 | |
Do not be anxious, do not be anxious. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
-How are you? -I'm well. | 0:48:20 | 0:48:22 | |
Brian D'Arcy and Michael Carroll | 0:48:25 | 0:48:27 | |
studied together and were ordained on the same day. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
But after ten years, Michael left the priesthood. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:35 | |
Ah, my darling Cathy, how are you? | 0:48:38 | 0:48:40 | |
Oh, welcome! | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
It's lovely to see you. What a lovely place you have here. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:45 | |
Aren't we lucky? | 0:48:45 | 0:48:46 | |
This is your husband, Michael! | 0:48:46 | 0:48:48 | |
(HE LAUGHS) | 0:48:48 | 0:48:50 | |
You can see why we took a long time choosing it, too. | 0:48:53 | 0:48:56 | |
It was worth it. | 0:48:56 | 0:48:58 | |
It's worth spending time on something you expect | 0:48:58 | 0:49:00 | |
to spend the rest of your life in, and this was our intention - | 0:49:00 | 0:49:03 | |
to find a place that we would go out of in a box, hopefully. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:07 | |
I suppose that's what I miss, is a home. | 0:49:07 | 0:49:09 | |
This is a home. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
I suddenly realise that I would never think | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
of settling anywhere permanently. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:16 | |
-Well, it's not the way you think, it's not the way your life is. -Yeah. | 0:49:16 | 0:49:20 | |
You're ready for moving now, aren't you? | 0:49:20 | 0:49:22 | |
I'm ready for moving now, | 0:49:22 | 0:49:24 | |
and I'm not sure that I'm ready for moving, but I'll have to move. | 0:49:24 | 0:49:27 | |
-Whether you're ready or not... -Precisely. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:30 | |
...it could be the order from above. | 0:49:30 | 0:49:32 | |
All of a sudden I realise this is a home, | 0:49:32 | 0:49:35 | |
this is exactly what I don't have. | 0:49:35 | 0:49:37 | |
With so much doubt in his own mind, | 0:49:42 | 0:49:44 | |
Brian now wants to find out exactly what it was | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
that convinced Michael to quit. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:50 | |
I wish I was as slim now! | 0:49:50 | 0:49:52 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:49:52 | 0:49:54 | |
You know, I used to often think, | 0:49:56 | 0:49:59 | |
why is Michael choosing one route, | 0:49:59 | 0:50:03 | |
and I'm choosing another route? | 0:50:03 | 0:50:05 | |
Now, looking back, I say to myself, "Was I right? Was I wrong?" | 0:50:05 | 0:50:10 | |
How do you choose a life? | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
It was only when I was ordained and got into the real world | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
that two things happened to me. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
I started thinking and I started feeling. | 0:50:19 | 0:50:21 | |
And the second one was the disaster! | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
HE LAUGHS | 0:50:24 | 0:50:26 | |
Or the lifesaver! | 0:50:26 | 0:50:28 | |
The second one was the disaster or the lifesaver! | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
I was dying emotionally in there. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:34 | |
I got a sense that if I stayed here | 0:50:34 | 0:50:36 | |
and didn't sort this out, that it would destroy me. | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
It would destroy me. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:41 | |
The price I have to pay to be a priest | 0:50:46 | 0:50:49 | |
is becoming almost unbearable. | 0:50:49 | 0:50:51 | |
It seems to me what you're facing at this stage | 0:50:51 | 0:50:54 | |
is this crisis of authenticity. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:57 | |
What's the price I pay to remain within this organisation? | 0:50:57 | 0:51:02 | |
A lot of which I don't agree with and don't see with - | 0:51:02 | 0:51:05 | |
some of it minor, some of it major? | 0:51:05 | 0:51:08 | |
But you've got to do something internally, I believe, to yourself, | 0:51:08 | 0:51:12 | |
to be able to live in that, with a way that says, | 0:51:12 | 0:51:15 | |
"I'm living in a horrible organisation - | 0:51:15 | 0:51:19 | |
"or a dysfunctional organisation - authentically." | 0:51:19 | 0:51:22 | |
Yeah, that's it. That's exactly it. | 0:51:24 | 0:51:27 | |
Is that possible? Because, you see... | 0:51:27 | 0:51:30 | |
I've said that answer to myself, what you're after saying. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:34 | |
I'm trying to be authentic... | 0:51:34 | 0:51:36 | |
..humanly as you possibly can be, | 0:51:37 | 0:51:39 | |
in a situation that is obviously dysfunctional. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:43 | |
You have to build some sort of immense barrier, | 0:51:43 | 0:51:47 | |
or what I'd call a deflector shield for yourself that says, | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
"I can't listen to you any more, I just can't. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
"You do my head in," you know? | 0:51:54 | 0:51:57 | |
"So talk all you want and send all the letters you want | 0:51:57 | 0:52:00 | |
"and censor all you want- I may comply or I may not comply. | 0:52:00 | 0:52:04 | |
"And until you kick me out... | 0:52:04 | 0:52:07 | |
"So I'm not going to move. | 0:52:07 | 0:52:09 | |
"Until you kick me out, I'm staying here." | 0:52:09 | 0:52:12 | |
-"I'm still doing the work I'm doing." -"And doing the work I'm doing." | 0:52:12 | 0:52:16 | |
I don't hear the people saying "Brian D'Arcy, go," do you? | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
No, quite the opposite, it's the people... | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
If I have a reason for staying, it's the people. | 0:52:22 | 0:52:24 | |
So there's your answer. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:26 | |
I think what Michael was saying, knowing me for 50 years, | 0:52:38 | 0:52:42 | |
"You should be a priest. | 0:52:42 | 0:52:44 | |
"Even if they put you out, still be a priest." | 0:52:44 | 0:52:47 | |
That's a hell of a statement for me, going home tonight. | 0:52:47 | 0:52:51 | |
Back home, Brian's received a personal letter | 0:53:08 | 0:53:11 | |
from the head of the Irish Church. | 0:53:11 | 0:53:13 | |
Cardinal Brady has responded to many of his queries. | 0:53:15 | 0:53:18 | |
I'd asked him, did he expect it would turn out as broken up | 0:53:19 | 0:53:23 | |
and disjointed as it has, end like this? | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
He says not really, but the answer, then, on reflection, | 0:53:26 | 0:53:30 | |
"One should not expect life on this earth to be trouble free." | 0:53:30 | 0:53:35 | |
Reading Sean's letter, | 0:53:35 | 0:53:37 | |
you can see that he's struggling, and that's a good thing. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:42 | |
He's wondering, like I am myself, constantly, | 0:53:42 | 0:53:48 | |
if it was all worth it, after 50 years of a lifetime service to the Church. | 0:53:48 | 0:53:54 | |
I think there's, as I often find in my own writing, a loneliness. | 0:53:56 | 0:54:00 | |
And I detected the loneliness in that. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:02 | |
Kind of an exile, kind of a sense of failure, | 0:54:02 | 0:54:05 | |
kind of a sense of, "I didn't do the job that I should have done." | 0:54:05 | 0:54:08 | |
The Cardinal does set out a list of things the Church can do - | 0:54:10 | 0:54:14 | |
looking after the poor, celebrating rites of passage, | 0:54:14 | 0:54:18 | |
being an ethical voice, and upholding heritage. | 0:54:18 | 0:54:21 | |
The Cardinal also thinks there's a positive role for Brian to play. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:26 | |
"Share our reflections with people in our preaching | 0:54:28 | 0:54:31 | |
"to give them the give of acceptance and patience." | 0:54:31 | 0:54:35 | |
He's saying to me, "I think that's your role - | 0:54:35 | 0:54:38 | |
"to encourage patience and suffering | 0:54:38 | 0:54:40 | |
"and to encourage people to reflect in a patient way, | 0:54:40 | 0:54:44 | |
"and come to terms with suffering." | 0:54:44 | 0:54:47 | |
He specifically says that the way I use the media, | 0:54:47 | 0:54:50 | |
I am well placed and well gifted to make a contribution | 0:54:50 | 0:54:54 | |
to the future of the Church, and there should be a place for me. | 0:54:54 | 0:55:00 | |
And that's the first time that has happened to me in my lifetime. | 0:55:00 | 0:55:05 | |
Brian has finally come to a decision about his future in the Church. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:22 | |
I am going to remain a priest. | 0:55:24 | 0:55:26 | |
I am going to speak the truth in a more prudent way. | 0:55:26 | 0:55:30 | |
But it will still be the truth, | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
because I am not going to remain a priest and be silent. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:37 | |
In his latest Sunday World column, as a statement of intent, | 0:55:39 | 0:55:43 | |
he's chosen to write about an influential Vatican insider | 0:55:43 | 0:55:46 | |
who vehemently criticised the Church from his deathbed. | 0:55:46 | 0:55:50 | |
"Cardinal Martini feared the bureaucrats who have, quote, | 0:55:52 | 0:55:55 | |
"'killed the spirit of renewal in the Church.' | 0:55:55 | 0:55:59 | |
"A brave leader who gave his life to the Church. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
"I, and others like me, cannot be silenced by fear. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:06 | |
"I must be inspired by Cardinal Martini's final, despairing plea | 0:56:06 | 0:56:11 | |
"for the transformation of the Church." | 0:56:11 | 0:56:14 | |
Brian is determined to speak his mind, | 0:56:16 | 0:56:20 | |
whatever the consequences. | 0:56:20 | 0:56:22 | |
Let's cut out all this theological poppycock. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:29 | |
Call what's wrong, wrong. Name it. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
There's news about Brian's next posting. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
At last he knows what his future holds. | 0:56:55 | 0:56:57 | |
Now he's preparing to share that news with his congregation. | 0:57:02 | 0:57:06 | |
Well, to take you out of suspense and myself out of suspense, | 0:57:09 | 0:57:14 | |
I have some good news and some bad news. | 0:57:14 | 0:57:17 | |
They're both the same news. | 0:57:18 | 0:57:19 | |
But for good or for bad, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:23 | |
I have been re-appointed to the Graan as rector for the next four years. | 0:57:23 | 0:57:27 | |
You're gluttons for punishment. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:35 | |
LAUGHTER | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
This is probably the only place I do belong, in this congregation. | 0:57:37 | 0:57:42 | |
It was a weight lifted off my shoulders. | 0:57:42 | 0:57:44 | |
The fellas that you had spent your life with at long last | 0:57:46 | 0:57:49 | |
had said whose side they were on. | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
At least I think I'll have a home for another four years where I'll feel at home. | 0:57:53 | 0:57:57 | |
By the time I finish this I'll be 71, if I do finish it. | 0:57:58 | 0:58:02 | |
I've no idea what'll happen in that time. | 0:58:02 | 0:58:05 | |
If I live to 71, I'll be the first man in my family to live to be 71. | 0:58:06 | 0:58:10 | |
My father died at 70, my brother died at 70. | 0:58:11 | 0:58:14 | |
I don't know what that means, | 0:58:14 | 0:58:17 | |
but sure, if you thought about that, you'd just do nothing. | 0:58:17 | 0:58:20 | |
So you get up and do your best every day, | 0:58:20 | 0:58:23 | |
and that's what it's all about. | 0:58:23 | 0:58:26 | |
Did I give hope more than despair? | 0:58:26 | 0:58:28 | |
Did I give life more than death? | 0:58:29 | 0:58:32 | |
Leave the rest to God. | 0:58:32 | 0:58:34 | |
Feck it, enjoy it. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:36 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:38 | 0:58:41 |