My Big Gay Jewish Conversion


My Big Gay Jewish Conversion

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Transcript


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This programme contains some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting

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My name is Simon Atkins and I'm Catholic.

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I was raised in the west of Ireland on a diet of Communion,

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confession and chastity.

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The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

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That was until I realised I was gay

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and could never get married in the eyes of God.

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-I'm a celibate man.

-Yeah.

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-I'm a single man.

-Yeah.

-Just because you are not married

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does not mean that you have a life without love.

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But I want sex and marriage with the love.

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Being Catholic doesn't seem relevant to my life any more.

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Then I met this guy -

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Matthew. He's Jewish, and I realised they might be a better option

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-for me.

-Every human being is a creation in the image of God.

-Mmm.

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Male, female, Jew, non-Jew, gay, straight.

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Nobody should ever be treated as if they weren't a full human being.

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To find out if Judaism is more tolerant of gay men, I'm travelling

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to the Middle East and its birthplace, Israel.

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I love the fact that I can feel free here.

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The whole city is a gay club.

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But as I delved deeper I uncover another side to Judaism...

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-Just...

-Camera down.

-Camera down.

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A man who sleeps with another man knows he must die,

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he shall die.

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It's an abomination, that's all.

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And that's all I have to say.

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..where being gay can be a matter of life or death.

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SCREAMING

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He pulled out a knife and started running and stabbing.

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It angers me that that is the way that they think,

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that I need to be cured.

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-Oh, my God, the smell.

-Doesn't it smell good?

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Delicious.

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Matthew and I have been together for two years.

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These are particularly excellent.

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Almost immediately,

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I started to feel more at home in his religion than my own.

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What's all this stuff?

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-We're not having a party.

-OK.

-You don't need a party platter.

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Well, we're having a Friday night dinner.

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He's accepted as a gay man by his rabbi

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and can get married in his place of worship.

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As a Catholic, I can't do that.

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I feel like I've given a lot to Catholicism over, like, the years.

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And I feel like that it has not served me particularly well now

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that I'm, you know, older, and...

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-Gayer.

-Gayer.

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And in a relationship.

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So I'm thinking about changing my religion.

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Do you think it would be easy for me to convert to Judaism?

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Coming from my Catholic background.

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The thing about conversion is, it's not...

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You can't just be like, "Oh, I want to be Jewish today."

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It's a really long, personal journey,

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-where you really have to engage with the question of faith.

-Yeah.

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When you were a little altar boy,

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-singing your heart out in the west of Ireland...

-Yeah.

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..were you singing your heart out to Jesus Christ?

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Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God.

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So the key difference, it is a different person you're praying to.

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It soon becomes obvious I know very little about Judaism.

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Come, come with me.

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-What are you doing?

-You can see.

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Come. Come here.

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-INAUDIBLE SPEECH

-OK, sure.

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Matthew's been accosted by some

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holy-looking people and asked to pray in a caravan, which is, er...

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..slightly odd.

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Oh, my God. You need... You need to get a shot of this.

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Like, they're binding him in something.

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Now he's, like, praying from a leaflet.

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That is just the strangest thing.

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-OK, good Shabbos.

-Good Shabbos.

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-Have a happy New Year.

-The same to you.

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Happy New Year.

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-Same to you.

-I literally haven't done that since my Bar Mitzvah.

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-What was that?

-It's because it's nearly New Year,

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it's like a mitzvah. It's like...

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It's like a good deed.

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I personally find it a very intense way of praying.

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It just actually looked a bit scary.

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-Oh, it's not scary.

-Well, it's scary for me cos I've never seen it

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before. Someone grabbed you, pulled you into a caravan and started...

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-Yeah.

-..wrapping you up in leather.

-Yeah, well...

-Like, come on.

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Not that kind of leather!

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Tonight we're celebrating one of the most sacred Jewish traditions,

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Friday night dinner...

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You put the challah on the table and you need to find the challah cover.

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..when friends and family come together to celebrate the Sabbath,

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the day God rested from creating the world.

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-You've done a good job.

-Yes, I know.

-Have I?

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-You've done nothing.

-No!

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Matthew has invited two close gay friends, James and Gabriel,

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who's come with his partner, Connor.

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Let's get you guys over there.

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It's the community, the structure

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and the rituals that first attracted me to Matthew's faith.

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Can I have a sparkly one?

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Yes!

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Tonight we're wearing a kippah...

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This looks quite Irish-y.

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..lighting the Sabbath candles...

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HE SPEAKS HEBREW

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..washing our hands from a cup...

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..and finally, breaking the bread.

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And we say Shabbat shalom.

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Shabbat shalom.

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Am I the only person at the table who's trying the gefilte fish?

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Mmm!

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Yeah? Really?

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The hot goss tonight is Connor,

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who's converting from Christianity to Judaism.

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-There's, like, so many questions I want to ask.

-Yeah.

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How did the whole idea of conversion come around in the first place?

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It was never a requirement, it was kind of, just like,

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"I think you're ready to start doing this."

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I thought it would be difficult for Connor to integrate into my family

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and with my friends if he didn't know something about Judaism.

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-Right.

-Tell them what you have to do.

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So, there's this weird ritual.

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Basically, you, like, have a circumcision,

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without getting the full operation.

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So they have to draw blood.

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-A prick.

-With, like, a needle.

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The rabbi sticks a needle in your cock?

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-Yeah.

-Yes. In your cock.

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Whilst you're where, in synagogue or something?

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-Yeah, in front of the whole community.

-What?

-Not in front

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-of the whole community!

-He sticks a needle in the head of your cock?

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To Connor, it's a sign of his commitment

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and he plans to marry Gabriel next year in a synagogue.

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A huge part of Judaism is moving with the times.

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You have to find new ways of being able to live in the modern era.

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We're not... At no point does it say live exactly how you lived 2,000

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-years ago.

-Do you, like, feel like, "Oh, I'm Jewish.

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"I can get married in the synagogue. I'm accepted in my faith."

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At our synagogue, definitely.

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That's something you never, ever have in the Catholic faith.

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You don't ever want to feel like you don't belong, which is why I think,

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I don't know, in my interpretation of what you're going through is

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to a certain extent that feeling of not belonging.

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Coming away from that table,

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I feel like I could be part of that community.

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I see the boys tonight and they're getting married in the eyes of God

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and I can't help thinking that, yes, it is important.

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It's like somebody's standing behind you, you know,

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with the Olympic torch and that legacy behind you

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and they're handing you that torch and they're saying, "Go.

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"Go forward with that and keep that legacy going."

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They're able to do it. I'm not able to do it.

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To find out what it would take for me to become Jewish, I'm off to meet

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Matthew's family rabbi.

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-Hello.

-Hi, Simon, come in.

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-How are you?

-Good, good.

-Nice to meet you.

-Welcome, welcome.

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Thank you very much. I've never been to a synagogue before.

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Here we are.

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Come in. I'll show you round.

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Thank you.

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-I mean, you know, you can probably see pews, bit like a church.

-Yeah.

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Altar, do you call it an altar?

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Yeah, we call it a bema, which means, literally, a raised place,

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like a platform.

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Centre stage in all synagogues is the Torah, the Jewish Bible.

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-I'll take this one out.

-Are they chained?

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-Oh, no, they're not, so they're not locked up.

-Actually, the big issue

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is if they fall. It's not that they're chained, it's just we don't

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-want them to fall out.

-HE LAUGHS

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OK.

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The Torah contains the word of God,

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passed down to Moses 3,000 years ago.

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To us Christians, it's known as the Old Testament.

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Judaism goes from right to left.

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So what do you do if you want to read something at the very end of

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-this?

-It's called rabbinic aerobics.

-Scroll it the whole way across.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you kind of start rolling it out like this and you get a bit of a workout.

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I just want to really find out where the Torah stands, and Judaism,

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on homosexual men and women, really.

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-You know, every human being is a creation in the image of God.

-Mm.

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Male, female, Jew, non-Jew, gay, straight, you know,

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nobody should ever be treated as if they weren't a full human being in

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that sense. As someone who's married, you know,

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I absolutely get that someone might really, really kind of

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-feel that need.

-Yeah. You know, like,

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I'm trying to figure out what I would have to do if I was ever

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-to convert to Judaism.

-It's an 18-month formal programme.

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Do you have to go to class?

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-Yeah.

-Do you have to do exams?

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-Yeah, we have classes.

-OK.

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You've got to know what Judaism really is.

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It's a religion which is built around this idea of covenant.

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Which means that you have to accept the terms of the covenant set out in

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here, understood by the rabbis.

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The Torah is the contract between God and Jews.

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It has 613 rules laying down the law from the kitchen to the bedroom.

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But there are really two verses -

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they say that it's forbidden for a man to lie with a man

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as with the lyings of a woman. And then they use this sort of label

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term which usually gets translated as abomination.

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It's talking about a very specific physical act,

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anal penetrative intercourse.

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So let me just get this straight.

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I can come to synagogue,

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I could be potentially preached to by a gay rabbi,

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I can get married in a synagogue,

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but it's forbidden for me to have anal intercourse?

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-I would say yes.

-OK. OK.

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That I did not know.

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But I like a bunch of people

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who do a bunch of things that I don't necessarily agree with,

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some of which are ethical and some of which are ritual.

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And, by the way, I don't not marry them.

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It's great to see rabbi Jeremy finding ways to compromise between

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these ancient creeds and our changing times,

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even if it's just turning a blind eye for inclusivity.

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But there is one rule even he won't budge on.

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To convert to Judaism, certainly within this denomination,

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it's required to be circumcised.

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-It is?

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You absolutely have to?

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-I mean, it's the original marker of that covenant.

-OK.

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Circumcision, erm...

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sounded like it's an absolute definite.

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Like, sex would never be the same again.

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Like, sure, there's so much more pleasure when you have a foreskin,

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-I hear.

-But Matthew has...

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Matthew's been circumcised, I'm assuming.

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Yeah, Matthew's circumcised and I'm kind of used to looking at

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a circumcised penis but it doesn't mean that I want to have one myself.

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I quite like the reveal.

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To understand if the sacrifices are worth it,

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I need to find out much more.

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My life would change forever.

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I wouldn't just be giving up on Communion and Christmas,

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I'd be giving up on Jesus Christ,

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the person I've prayed to all my life.

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While Matthew and I have spoken about marriage,

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he is younger than me

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and might still change his mind.

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If I'm to convert, it has to be for me and only me.

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And I know exactly where to search for answers -

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Israel, the birthplace of Judaism.

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The modern state of Israel was created after the Holocaust

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as a safe homeland for all Jewish people.

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I start my journey in Tel Aviv.

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Tel Aviv is home to the largest gay population in the Middle East.

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Estimates suggest one in every four people here is gay.

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It's the gayest city on earth.

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It's amazing to think that just a few hundred miles from here

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in Saudi Arabia, gay people are sentenced to death,

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but here in Tel Aviv they are free to strut their stuff.

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You can even disagree with one of the most hallowed Jewish covenants.

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Excuse me, do you speak English?

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I will do my best effort.

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So, why...?

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What is...? Is this a protest?

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Of course, it's a protest against circumcision.

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It's such a huge criminal act to cut from a defenceless baby from his

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genitals. It's such a cruel thing.

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It's such a savage thing to do.

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-You have scarred his penis.

-SHOUTING

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Look at this. Look at this.

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ANGRY HEBREW SHOUTING

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What's he saying? What's he saying?

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-He's saying son of a dog.

-Son of a dog?

-Cursing me.

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He is causing quite a stir, isn't he?

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Excuse me. Excuse me.

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-Do you speak English?

-A little.

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Are you against... Are you pro-circumcision?

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Not against, I'm not agreeing with him.

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-You don't agree? Why is that?

-Why? Because I am cut, my thing.

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OK. It's a condition, OK, and it's not painful.

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I'm looking at converting to Judaism.

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-OK.

-I might convert.

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Come! All you need is that cut!

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It's painful. Painful for me.

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-Now!

-Now, maybe.

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But put ice, overnight.

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Everything good.

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Put ice. That's your solution?

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Ice?

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What all Jewish men do have, and I don't, is a kippah.

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Multicoloured knit, maybe?

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It's worn during prayer as a symbol of one's awareness that there is

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someone above us.

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I mean, that's pretty cool, star of David.

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Let's give it a shot. Little bit of sparkle.

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Yeah, that one's got my name all over it.

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There is just something about this city that I absolutely adore.

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It's just hard to put your finger on it.

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There's a real ease and friendliness about Tel Aviv that I just...

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I love. I feel a real connection the city.

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As the sun sets, Tel Aviv is just getting warmed up.

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I'm meeting up with three friends

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who want to show me how this city parties.

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-Let's party!

-After you, ladies.

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ISRAELI DANCE MUSIC

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Why do you love Tel Aviv so much?

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-What is it?

-I love the fact that I can feel free here.

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I love the fact that I can go to the beach, and I can go however I want,

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in my tiny little Speedo.

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The difference in Tel Aviv is that

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when you go abroad, and you travel,

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you feel very... It's a very straight city, wherever you are.

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And you can go to a gay club and you feel a bit more comfortable,

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more in the zone. In Tel Aviv, the whole city feels like that.

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The whole city feels like you're in your zone,

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because the city is a gay club. That is very unique to Tel Aviv.

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Tel Aviv has celebrated gay pride since 1979.

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This year, over 200,000 people joined the parade,

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making it one of the largest gay festivals in the world.

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Wow!

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Now, that is a club!

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This place attracts gay people from all walks of life.

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You're all from Israel?

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What do you do?

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Are you soldiers?

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I'm a commander in military jail.

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You're a Commander?

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What about you?

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I'm a guns instructor.

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So, You teach people how to shoot guns properly?

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-Yes.

-What age are you?

-20.

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Gay soldiers like these

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have been openly serving on the front line since 1994 -

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a decade before the UK followed suit.

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In Israel military service is compulsory.

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This is a country that's been in conflict with its neighbour since it was born.

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I want to find out if the liberal values I've seen so far

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extend to the other parts of Israel.

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So I'm on my way to meet a Jewish scholar who lives 50 miles away in the West Bank.

0:17:560:18:02

A Palestinian territory that is occupied by Israel.

0:18:020:18:05

Thousands of Jews have set up Jewish-only settlements here.

0:18:070:18:11

They believe this is their ancestral land.

0:18:110:18:15

Getting there isn't easy.

0:18:150:18:16

Here's the separation wall.

0:18:180:18:19

Literally, the beginning of it.

0:18:210:18:22

That separates Israel from the Palestinian authorities.

0:18:220:18:25

Following a Palestinian uprising, a separation barrier now

0:18:280:18:31

divides Israel from its neighbour.

0:18:310:18:33

There is a watch tower just up ahead now.

0:18:380:18:40

I'm just not used to this level of security.

0:18:440:18:47

You automatically feel a little bit, like, on edge,

0:18:470:18:52

even just looking around,

0:18:520:18:54

just knowing what can happen in this area.

0:18:540:18:57

And what does happen, quite regularly.

0:18:570:18:59

I finally arrive at my destination.

0:19:050:19:07

This is a Yeshiva,

0:19:080:19:11

where Aaron teaches students religious texts.

0:19:110:19:13

I hope I'm not interrupting a class.

0:19:140:19:16

Hello.

0:19:180:19:20

-How are you?

-Nice to see you.

0:19:200:19:22

We are a little bit late today.

0:19:220:19:24

The last class finished just now.

0:19:240:19:27

-OK.

-Five minutes to wind down, then we're starting.

0:19:270:19:31

So, tell me, what do you teach here?

0:19:310:19:34

A lot of things.

0:19:360:19:37

All of them from the Torah.

0:19:390:19:41

The Bible.

0:19:410:19:42

The Talmud. You know what is the Talmud?

0:19:420:19:45

-The Talmud?

-This is the Talmud. Yes.

0:19:450:19:48

You can see here.

0:19:480:19:49

This was written

0:19:520:19:55

-1,500 years ago.

-OK.

0:19:550:19:57

The Talmud is the guidebook to the Torah.

0:19:590:20:01

It explains that homosexuality is forbidden in Judaism,

0:20:010:20:05

because it would lead men astray,

0:20:050:20:08

threatening the Jewish ideal of family life.

0:20:080:20:10

I am starting the class now.

0:20:100:20:14

-We'll talk later.

-We'll talk later.

-Thank you. Enjoy.

0:20:140:20:16

It seems only men are welcome in this Yeshiva.

0:20:180:20:21

It feels very conservative.

0:20:210:20:23

I meet up again with Aaron at his home.

0:20:270:20:29

-Hello.

-Hello. Shalom. Welcome, welcome.

0:20:340:20:37

-Thank you.

-Welcome.

0:20:370:20:38

This is a very nice house you have.

0:20:380:20:41

-Thank you, very much.

-What are you having? Coffee?

0:20:410:20:44

Are you a tea man or are you a coffee man?

0:20:440:20:46

No, it's not coffee, it's chicory.

0:20:460:20:49

Chicory is instead of coffee.

0:20:490:20:51

-OK.

-I wake up in the morning, because I want to pray to my God.

0:20:510:20:55

This is what wakes me...

0:20:550:20:57

-That's what wakes you up?

-Yes.

0:20:570:20:59

I need a coffee before I do any kind of...

0:20:590:21:01

Try to pray to God, and you will see.

0:21:010:21:04

-It's better than a coffee.

-Yes.

0:21:040:21:06

So, tell me what your views on gay...

0:21:060:21:09

..men are in your religion.

0:21:100:21:13

Oh. I need to sit for that.

0:21:130:21:15

You need to sit. Shall we sit?

0:21:150:21:17

-Yes.

-It's very complicated.

0:21:170:21:19

It's not a point of what I believe.

0:21:190:21:22

-Yeah.

-It's written very, very clearly.

0:21:220:21:25

Our Torah is against same-sex marriage.

0:21:250:21:30

There is no other way to say it.

0:21:300:21:33

-Our religion don't have a perfect solution for gay men.

-Gay men.

0:21:330:21:38

Unlike Matthew's rabbi in London,

0:21:390:21:41

Aaron doesn't interpret the words of the Bible.

0:21:410:21:44

He takes them as divine.

0:21:440:21:46

I'm looking at converting to Judaism so I can marry my boyfriend.

0:21:460:21:49

No, you're not allowed to do that.

0:21:490:21:52

It's...er...

0:21:520:21:55

It's the same as the Catholic priests say.

0:21:550:21:59

In that point... In that issue,

0:21:590:22:03

we and the Catholics are almost the same.

0:22:030:22:06

The Catholics are more hard, in that, their point of view.

0:22:060:22:08

In Judaism's point of view, to be a gay, it's not forbidden.

0:22:080:22:13

-OK.

-It's forbidden to live like a gay.

0:22:130:22:15

So do you expect me and my boyfriend to deny...

0:22:150:22:19

-..who I am as a person.

-No, no, no!

0:22:210:22:23

-What I really feel.

-It's not deny, no.

0:22:230:22:26

You don't have to deny.

0:22:260:22:28

There is only one way of religious Judaism.

0:22:280:22:32

Do all the commandments of God.

0:22:320:22:35

If somebody says he is doing half, quarter,

0:22:350:22:38

or something else of the commandments of God, he is not religious.

0:22:380:22:41

He is a cultural Jew.

0:22:410:22:43

You don't believe? Do what you want.

0:22:430:22:45

There are two ways of life, and I respect...

0:22:450:22:48

I respect somebody who says I don't believe.

0:22:480:22:50

As I respect you. You call yourself a Catholic, you're not a Catholic, really.

0:22:500:22:54

But I still feel like I'm Catholic, and I'm a man of faith.

0:22:540:22:59

I just can never get married in the Catholic church.

0:22:590:23:03

Not only married, your way of life is forbidden.

0:23:030:23:06

OK.

0:23:070:23:09

-It was very, very nice to meet you.

-Very nice to meet you.

0:23:110:23:14

-Can I have a hug?

-Thank you.

0:23:140:23:17

Thank you very much.

0:23:170:23:18

I've always defined myself as a Catholic but, if I'm honest,

0:23:210:23:25

maybe my faith has been on the wane for a while.

0:23:250:23:28

I think I craved acceptance from my Church

0:23:280:23:31

because I felt like an outsider growing up.

0:23:310:23:34

But, as a Jew, could I ever truly belong

0:23:340:23:37

and follow all their rules religiously?

0:23:370:23:40

I'm bound for the holiest city in Israel.

0:23:410:23:44

Jerusalem is the epicentre of Judaism.

0:23:460:23:50

It's where the Jews built their very first temple.

0:23:500:23:52

But it's also a sacred site for Muslims and Christians.

0:23:540:23:57

Access to the city is tightly controlled.

0:23:570:24:00

We're just about to come up to a checkpoint.

0:24:020:24:05

Very high security.

0:24:070:24:08

It's actually so weird seeing...

0:24:100:24:12

..like, they are fixing each other's hair,

0:24:130:24:16

but they've got huge machine guns in their hands.

0:24:160:24:18

-Camera down, please.

-Camera down.

0:24:180:24:20

-Hello.

-Hi.

0:24:220:24:23

That is so weird.

0:24:260:24:28

It's like, "Oh, my God, does my hair look OK?"

0:24:290:24:31

With my big rifle in my hand.

0:24:310:24:33

It's like, sweet as pie, yet, they're killing machines.

0:24:340:24:38

-It's surreal.

-It's so weird!

0:24:380:24:39

Jews believe Jerusalem was chosen by God

0:24:420:24:44

as the spiritual capital of Judaism.

0:24:440:24:47

All Jews outside the city pray facing its direction.

0:24:470:24:50

One man who prays every day without fail is Nadaf,

0:24:530:24:57

a gay man who has lived here all his life.

0:24:570:24:59

-You have to say if have anything in your pockets.

-That's natural?

0:25:010:25:03

We've come to the Western Wall.

0:25:100:25:12

It's all that's left standing from an ancient Jewish Temple.

0:25:120:25:16

This is the closest Jews can physically get God.

0:25:160:25:19

You feel that you fit in in Orthodox Judaism,

0:25:200:25:24

but there's one thing that you can't do.

0:25:240:25:27

There are people who do not do anal sex.

0:25:270:25:30

Is that...

0:25:300:25:32

..an issue for you? Do you want to have penetrative sex?

0:25:330:25:36

Maybe, yeah. I haven't done it.

0:25:370:25:40

Some people, maybe, would say that it is a very important part.

0:25:400:25:43

But, I suppose, for you, it's more important to be religious and...

0:25:430:25:48

It's...

0:25:480:25:49

When I was with my boyfriend...

0:25:500:25:52

He complains, it's not two of us, it's the three of us.

0:25:540:25:57

It's you, me and God.

0:25:580:26:00

I just don't think I could suppress my sexuality for a religion.

0:26:050:26:10

It's who I am.

0:26:100:26:11

But Nadaf did just that.

0:26:130:26:16

Five years ago, he proposed to a woman, to live a conventional life.

0:26:160:26:20

After I got divorced, I was very angry with God.

0:26:220:26:25

I didn't know what to do with my relationship with God,

0:26:260:26:29

and, at a certain point...

0:26:290:26:31

..even my anger was what calmed me down.

0:26:320:26:36

I'm, like, "Wait, I'm angry, that means I'm in a relationship with him."

0:26:360:26:40

You're allowed to be angry.

0:26:400:26:42

Some rabbis double up as matchmakers,

0:26:420:26:45

encouraging gay men to marry lesbian women.

0:26:450:26:48

There's even a dating app where you can browse for prospective gay partners of the opposite sex.

0:26:480:26:53

I never experienced love before.

0:26:530:26:56

I didn't let myself fall in love with a man,

0:26:570:26:59

I didn't have any love for a woman.

0:26:590:27:02

And I felt very strong connection to her,

0:27:020:27:06

but, suddenly...

0:27:060:27:07

..when we were faced, in the marriage, we realised, that's not it.

0:27:080:27:11

That really makes me slightly angry, really.

0:27:110:27:14

-Why?

-It just makes me angry that, you know...

0:27:140:27:18

..you think so much about, like, God and your faith, and your 613 rules,

0:27:190:27:25

and what you're supposed to do,

0:27:250:27:27

but when it comes to, like, you know, your sexuality and being...

0:27:270:27:31

..happy, "Oh, just gloss over that and marry a woman, because that's what you should do."

0:27:320:27:36

I understand that they...

0:27:360:27:38

When they look at homosexuality that it is just, you know...

0:27:380:27:41

You know, it's something that you can choose.

0:27:410:27:46

But, unfortunately, it's not something you can choose.

0:27:460:27:50

You're not choosing being gay, but you are choosing a gay lifestyle.

0:27:500:27:56

OK?

0:27:560:27:58

And that's a major difference.

0:27:580:28:00

If this is my choice,

0:28:040:28:06

then maybe Judaism isn't the answer.

0:28:060:28:08

It's starting to remind me a little too much of my own Catholic faith.

0:28:120:28:16

Hi, baby. Oh, God, big yawn.

0:28:220:28:24

I just had a Magnum.

0:28:260:28:28

How are you?

0:28:280:28:30

I'm very well. I had...

0:28:300:28:32

I did a huge amount of sorting today.

0:28:320:28:37

-Sorting?

-And I did a deep clean of the bathroom.

0:28:370:28:40

Great. OK, I'm delighted for you.

0:28:400:28:42

So, what have you done the last few days?

0:28:420:28:46

Erm... It's been hectic.

0:28:460:28:49

Like, I'm really now having doubts about Judaism,

0:28:490:28:53

because there's a nice side to it, but there's also a very

0:28:530:28:57

intense, ugly side to it.

0:28:570:28:59

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a religion, organised by men...

0:28:590:29:04

..that doesn't have a questionable side to it.

0:29:050:29:08

Yeah.

0:29:080:29:09

Yeah, I'm definitely confused.

0:29:090:29:13

because I don't know where I kind of stand right now.

0:29:130:29:16

You're going to have to...

0:29:160:29:18

If you are a thinking person,

0:29:180:29:22

and you want to remain engaged with your faith,

0:29:220:29:25

you're always going to have to get comfortable with living in confusion.

0:29:250:29:31

Maybe no-one ever lives up to the ideals of any religion.

0:29:310:29:34

So they never feel like they belong.

0:29:340:29:36

The trouble is, it's just...very visible.

0:29:360:29:38

You know. It's very visible, and

0:29:380:29:42

the life stages are so intertwined with religion,

0:29:420:29:44

things like marriage and birth.

0:29:440:29:47

And it's visibly different when you're gay.

0:29:470:29:49

So you visibly feel like you don't, you know,

0:29:490:29:53

like you don't necessarily belong in that religion.

0:29:530:29:56

Should I just keep struggling on in the Catholic faith, rather than, like,

0:29:560:30:00

changing to a completely different faith

0:30:000:30:02

and having to struggle from the very beginning?

0:30:020:30:05

You will certainly be exchanging one confusion for another.

0:30:050:30:09

Arguably, with better food.

0:30:100:30:11

OK, I think we're done here.

0:30:150:30:16

-OK, I love you.

-Love you.

0:30:160:30:19

KISSING

0:30:190:30:21

Night, night.

0:30:210:30:22

BEEPING

0:30:220:30:23

In Jerusalem, I've realised how much I take life with Matthew for granted.

0:30:320:30:37

A recent study of gay teenagers in Israel revealed that one in five

0:30:400:30:44

have attempted suicide -

0:30:440:30:46

over 100 times the rate of the general population.

0:30:460:30:49

Like Tel Aviv, Jerusalem has a gay pride every year.

0:30:510:30:54

But in 2015, tragedy struck.

0:30:550:30:58

I'm meeting one of the organisers in the city's only gay bar.

0:31:010:31:05

Hello.

0:31:050:31:07

-Hey, babe.

-Nice to meet you.

-How are you?

-Simon.

-Eleanor.

0:31:070:31:10

How's things?

0:31:100:31:12

-Good. How are you?

-I'm very well, thank you.

0:31:120:31:15

Can you take me back to last year, and exactly what happened?

0:31:150:31:18

At the parade.

0:31:180:31:20

Well, I was kind of

0:31:200:31:24

like, 100 metres up from where the killer got inside.

0:31:240:31:28

He pulled out a knife, and started running and stabbing.

0:31:280:31:32

And a lot of blood, a lot of blood on the street.

0:31:320:31:37

-Oh, my God.

-A lot of chaos. Screaming.

0:31:370:31:39

Oh, my God, look at the size of that knife.

0:31:510:31:53

That's Jordan. He was one of the stabbees.

0:31:590:32:02

How many people died that day?

0:32:020:32:04

Six got stabbed, another got lightly injured.

0:32:040:32:08

And one girl, Shira Banki, was dead,

0:32:080:32:11

died after a couple of days in the hospital.

0:32:110:32:14

Poor thing.

0:32:160:32:17

It's so hard to watch this.

0:32:200:32:22

What age was she when she died?

0:32:290:32:31

She was almost 16.

0:32:310:32:33

She was 16?

0:32:330:32:34

She'd just got to the...

0:32:360:32:38

-Oh, my God!

-She'd just finished the tenth grade.

0:32:380:32:41

I can't believe that. I didn't realise she was so young.

0:32:460:32:49

The assailant comes from a group of believers

0:32:550:32:57

who regard themselves as one of the most religiously authentic Jews of all.

0:32:570:33:01

Known as Haredi Jews, they make up a third of the population of Jerusalem.

0:33:020:33:07

Our attempts to speak to Haredi rabbis have been met with a wall of silence.

0:33:080:33:12

While very few condone the attacker,

0:33:120:33:15

I wonder to what extent this community might share his intolerance of homosexuality.

0:33:150:33:21

I've come to the suburb of Mea She'arim to find out.

0:33:210:33:25

Excuse me, do you speak English?

0:33:250:33:28

No, you don't. Was that not English I just heard?

0:33:280:33:30

Excuse me, do you speak English?

0:33:310:33:33

Do you speaking English?

0:33:360:33:37

Do you... Do you speak English. Can I? No.

0:33:370:33:40

It's funny, because it's a busy high street, but...

0:33:430:33:45

..I don't feel particularly safe here for some reason.

0:33:460:33:50

Even though, like, obviously it must be quite safe,

0:33:500:33:53

because it just looks like a normal busy high street.

0:33:530:33:56

Except it's quite a religious high street.

0:33:560:33:58

So...

0:33:580:33:59

And, like, I stick out like a sore thumb.

0:33:590:34:01

Everybody's staring at me.

0:34:010:34:03

I'm doing a documentary for the BBC.

0:34:090:34:12

We're just in Mea She'arim because we're asking people

0:34:120:34:15

what they think of being religious and gay.

0:34:150:34:18

Is it like...

0:34:180:34:19

-I don't know what that is.

-You don't know what that is?

0:34:190:34:22

Please don't ask me, you're not going to like my opinion.

0:34:240:34:27

What is your opinion?

0:34:270:34:29

He'd rather not say.

0:34:290:34:30

-It's actually forbidden.

-It's forbidden?

-Yes.

0:34:320:34:34

The Torah forbids it.

0:34:340:34:36

It says, a man who sleeps with another man, die, he shall die.

0:34:360:34:41

You don't think so?

0:34:470:34:49

What if they are? Some people surely are religious and gay.

0:34:490:34:52

To be Jewish and gay?

0:34:550:34:57

Why?

0:34:580:35:00

It's an abomination, that's all.

0:35:000:35:02

That's all I have to say. Let's go.

0:35:020:35:04

I mean...

0:35:110:35:12

I'm lost for words, to be honest.

0:35:120:35:15

How could I, you know, come into this religion,

0:35:150:35:18

if it's an abomination to be gay?

0:35:180:35:20

If I have any gay thoughts,

0:35:200:35:22

I have to either shut them out or leave the religion.

0:35:220:35:26

But I'm not even... But I am gay

0:35:260:35:28

and I want to potentially be in the religion.

0:35:280:35:31

So how is that going to work for me?

0:35:310:35:33

This is a side to Judaism I haven't seen before.

0:35:370:35:40

People here live their lives according to a strict interpretation

0:35:430:35:46

of Old Testament law.

0:35:460:35:47

Modern, secular cultures rejected

0:35:470:35:50

and centuries-old traditions still continue,

0:35:500:35:52

such as this atonement ceremony,

0:35:520:35:55

in which the sins of a person

0:35:550:35:57

are symbolically transferred to a chicken.

0:35:570:36:00

I mean, it's absolute chaos.

0:36:040:36:05

Even like all the little kids...

0:36:080:36:09

I've never seen it before.

0:36:090:36:11

The chicken is then slaughtered and donated to the poor.

0:36:140:36:18

Maybe I'll be swinging a chicken round my head this time next year.

0:36:220:36:26

This ritual has been practised in the same way

0:36:300:36:33

for over a thousand years.

0:36:330:36:34

Finally, I have a lead.

0:36:430:36:45

One local community leader agrees to speak to me.

0:36:450:36:48

Shalom.

0:36:570:36:58

How are you?

0:36:590:37:00

Yul Krause has been an active voice in Mea She'arim since he was 17.

0:37:030:37:08

What do you think of people that are gay?

0:37:080:37:11

Do you think God looks at me in disdain because of my homosexuality?

0:37:110:37:15

Is he being serious? Are you being serious?

0:37:490:37:51

Can you... Could you put me through some kind of therapy

0:37:510:37:54

to try and get rid of my homosexuality?

0:37:540:37:56

But what medication would I take?

0:38:040:38:07

So, if your son was gay,

0:38:100:38:12

then you would give him medication,

0:38:120:38:14

rather than let him lead a gay lifestyle?

0:38:140:38:18

That's all just ridiculous.

0:38:430:38:46

It really, really angers me.

0:38:460:38:48

You know, after coming out of that chat,

0:38:480:38:49

I feel a lot safer in the religion that I'm in, actually.

0:38:490:38:52

Cos that really just...

0:38:530:38:55

It angered me,

0:38:550:38:56

and it also freaked me out that that is the way that they think.

0:38:560:39:01

That I have a disease.

0:39:010:39:02

That I need to be cured.

0:39:030:39:05

It's really hard to understand this attitude.

0:39:060:39:09

I guess my only way to make sense of it

0:39:090:39:12

is by accepting that while my world is constantly evolving,

0:39:120:39:15

that's not the case in this part of Israel.

0:39:150:39:18

Ultraorthodox views still exist,

0:39:180:39:21

and sometimes they spill into politics.

0:39:210:39:23

In February 2016,

0:39:250:39:26

the Israeli parliament refused to ban gay conversion therapy.

0:39:260:39:30

The Health Minister - a Haredi Jew himself -

0:39:300:39:33

compared gays to sinners during the debate.

0:39:330:39:35

Views that I think are unacceptable

0:39:370:39:39

exist in both Catholicism and Judaism.

0:39:390:39:43

Maybe it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

0:39:430:39:46

But there is one striking difference between the religions -

0:39:490:39:53

Jesus Christ.

0:39:530:39:54

For me to convert,

0:39:590:40:00

I simply wouldn't be able to believe that Jesus is the son of God.

0:40:000:40:04

Jews are still waiting for their Messiah to arrive.

0:40:040:40:07

There's no better place to find the clarity I need

0:40:100:40:14

than right here in Jerusalem.

0:40:140:40:15

This is where Jesus was crucified.

0:40:150:40:18

Every Friday, pilgrims and priests retrace Jesus' final steps.

0:40:240:40:28

You can get that smell straightaway.

0:40:330:40:36

-Yeah, the incense of the praying.

-The incense...

0:40:360:40:38

It's so...strong...

0:40:380:40:40

-The good smell, like, rising to God.

-Yeah.

0:40:400:40:43

As we arrive at the church where Jesus was buried,

0:40:480:40:51

I come across Frederique, a French trainee Catholic priest.

0:40:510:40:56

So, you've always been Catholic?

0:40:560:40:59

Yes, yes.

0:40:590:41:02

Why do you have such strong faith?

0:41:020:41:04

I can give a lot of reasons why Catholicism really, really...

0:41:040:41:09

..talked to me deeply. And...

0:41:110:41:14

But behind it, I met with Jesus Christ.

0:41:140:41:16

I feel like that, in some ways,

0:41:170:41:19

I've lost my faith in the Catholic Church...

0:41:190:41:22

..and in God and in Jesus Christ.

0:41:230:41:26

Have you ever waned in your religion?

0:41:260:41:30

It's a mark of authenticity to struggle with our faith.

0:41:300:41:34

You have a question now. Should I become a Jew?

0:41:340:41:36

Should I remain Catholic?

0:41:360:41:39

This is your question.

0:41:390:41:41

This answer is not going to the supermarket

0:41:410:41:43

and choosing a box for an Orthodox,

0:41:430:41:45

it's something very deep about your own self and identity.

0:41:450:41:49

The Church is not perfect.

0:41:490:41:52

If people make you think the Church is perfect, it's wrong.

0:41:520:41:55

But that is exactly what I thought.

0:41:570:42:00

Growing up, we were taught our Church was flawless.

0:42:000:42:02

Religion is not a magical...stick, you know?

0:42:140:42:17

Everything... changes into a beautiful world.

0:42:170:42:20

It would not be so easy.

0:42:200:42:22

My advice will be that you really have to listen

0:42:240:42:27

to what your heart is telling you to go to.

0:42:270:42:30

For example, "Oh, you know, I want to live with my boyfriend but...

0:42:300:42:35

"..he say I'm a Catholic, a Christian Catholic.

0:42:360:42:39

"If he is a Jew, there would be a friction."

0:42:390:42:42

Yes, there would be a friction.

0:42:420:42:43

But this friction, maybe, is the beauty of diversity.

0:42:430:42:46

Maybe that would be a richness for your couple to be together,

0:42:470:42:53

and not the opposite.

0:42:530:42:54

In the centre of the church lies the tomb of Jesus Christ.

0:42:580:43:02

This is where the Bible says he rose from the dead.

0:43:040:43:08

In a religion with little tangible proof of anything,

0:43:090:43:13

it's overwhelming to touch something

0:43:130:43:15

that physically connects me to Jesus.

0:43:150:43:18

This is not the right time to do this now.

0:43:250:43:27

Just let me... I just need...

0:43:270:43:29

I can't do this now.

0:43:290:43:30

It's just... It's a lot to take in.

0:43:330:43:36

I'm slightly overwhelmed by this whole experience.

0:43:370:43:40

I've returned to Tel Aviv to get some space to think.

0:43:560:43:59

It's astonishing to think that people here are united

0:44:010:44:05

with those in Jerusalem under the banner of Judaism.

0:44:050:44:08

But maybe that's the beauty of this religion.

0:44:100:44:13

As a Catholic, I have the Pope and his word is final.

0:44:140:44:18

But there is no ultimate moral authority in Judaism.

0:44:180:44:22

Instead, each rabbi interprets the Torah in their own way,

0:44:220:44:27

allowing for a diversity of views to exist.

0:44:270:44:30

This will be one of the hardest decisions I will ever have to make.

0:44:320:44:36

But before I do,

0:44:370:44:39

my friend Jonathan has invited me to celebrate Yom Kippur with him -

0:44:390:44:43

the holiest day of the year in Judaism.

0:44:430:44:45

According to Jewish tradition,

0:44:480:44:50

God inscribes each person's fate for the coming year into a book of life.

0:44:500:44:56

Jews have until sunset tonight to seek atonement

0:44:560:44:59

before God seals his verdict.

0:44:590:45:02

SHE SINGS

0:45:020:45:04

The blowing of the shofar - the ram's horn -

0:45:060:45:09

symbolises the closing of the book,

0:45:090:45:11

and the time to be honest with yourself and God.

0:45:110:45:15

And I now know where I stand.

0:45:150:45:17

Before I came here,

0:45:230:45:24

it was obvious to me that Catholicism was far from perfect.

0:45:240:45:27

But, you know, coming here has made me realise

0:45:280:45:31

that Judaism is also far from perfect.

0:45:310:45:34

What I need to do is just face up to the fact that...

0:45:360:45:40

I'm never going to be fully accepted in either religion,

0:45:410:45:44

and I need to pick and choose the parts of that religion that work for me.

0:45:440:45:48

You know, I think I'm better being a Catholic man

0:45:480:45:52

who can't get married in a Catholic church

0:45:520:45:55

with a Jewish boyfriend whose culture and community I can...

0:45:550:46:01

..appreciate.

0:46:020:46:04

And I have to be happy with that.

0:46:050:46:06

And I am happy with that.

0:46:090:46:10

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