Gareth Thomas v Homophobia: Hate in the Beautiful Game


Gareth Thomas v Homophobia: Hate in the Beautiful Game

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A normal Saturday in the English Football League,

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and Leeds are preparing to welcome Brighton

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from Britain's so-called gay capital.

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The world's most famous gay sportsman, Gareth "Alfie" Thomas,

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is on the way to the ground with Brighton fans.

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Well, wherever we go, really,

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we tend to get chants of, "Does your boyfriend know you're here?"

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Or, "We can see you holding hands."

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You guys don't react?

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-Oh, no.

-Well, we do react, I mean, we start singing things to them -

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"You're too ugly to be gay." Or when we are beating them

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we start singing, "1-0 to the nancy boys."

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-Right, so make a joke about it?

-Yeah.

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It's kind of...you don't really notice it any more.

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CHANTING BLEEPING

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Probably the most surprising of everything

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is the acceptance of the level

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of abuse, the normality that abuse has been given.

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I find that unacceptable.

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If I was a player in this environment, I would be so afraid.

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So afraid, because you give them an inch and they're going to take

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a mile, because they're just looking for that one crack.

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They're trying to break each other.

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It is a human right that we are allowed to be who we want to be,

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yet football, for some reason, feels like,

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yeah, you can be who you want to be, but within this game,

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if you're not a stereotypical male or female we expect you to be, then,

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you know what, we are allowed to abuse you for 90 minutes.

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That, in my book, ain't right.

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There are 5,000 male professional footballers in the UK.

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Not one is openly gay.

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Does fear rule, or are there just no gay players?

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Do you personally know of any footballers

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who are hiding their sexuality

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within the Football League right now?

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Yes, I do. And I know the lies that they are living and I know the fear

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that they have.

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It's lovely! Robbie Rogers!

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One player reveals the homophobia that stopped him coming out

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when he was playing in the UK.

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I heard it from, you know, coaches, from fans, from players,

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but definitely it was within the changing room

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that affected me the most.

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And politicians have started asking why football seems to be

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the last refuge of extreme homophobia.

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What is it about football that makes it lag

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so far behind civilised society?

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So, 50 years after the legalisation of homosexuality,

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Alfie asks, is football finally ready to kick its homophobic habit?

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I think everybody has something to say about the issue,

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but nobody does anything about the issue,

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and I'd like to find out why that is.

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# You're queer and you know you are

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# You're queer and you know you are

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# You're queer and you know you are. #

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CHANTING ECHOES AND FADES

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This is the cliffs I would come to once a week,

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for maybe a three-month period.

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And I'd always go through this process of standing at the top

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of the cliff, taking off my shoes, putting my shoes tidy,

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putting my socks in my shoes, folding my clothes.

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So, every day I'd come, I'd go like a step closer to the edge and then

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a step closer to the edge, going closer and closer and closer.

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It's a strange, strange thing of wanting to die,

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but I didn't want to die - I just didn't want to open my eyes again.

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Cos the world that I saw in front of me was something that I was

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really, really scared of.

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Ten years ago, Gareth Thomas was a sporting icon.

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Captain of Wales with 100 caps.

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Hard man. Enforcer.

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But the adulation of millions could not help him deal with a secret.

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I wasn't the person that I was portraying myself to be,

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and it makes you feel ugly, it makes you feel shameful,

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and it really does, it makes you feel like you want to die.

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I was afraid of being judged

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for something as normal, as I see it now, as my sexuality.

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The fear of people looking at me differently or talking about me.

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Everything that I had worked my whole life for being taken away,

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and left with nothing to live for.

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But I still want to be able to hear my mother talk.

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I still want to be able to hear my father laugh.

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And it's like THEY are the people that would be affected by this.

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That, I think, was the one thing that was stopping me

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from jumping off the edge.

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So, the last time I came here, I solemnly said to myself,

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"I'm never coming back, because I'm choosing to live,

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"I'm not choosing to die."

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Having first admitted his true sexuality

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to his family and team-mates,

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Alfie then came out to the world on the pages of the Daily Mail -

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the paper his father read.

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Years of torment for me

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took my team-mates, took my friends,

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took my family probably 30 seconds of contemplation

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to be able to deliver the words like, "It doesn't matter,"

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and to me, all of a sudden, life was completely different.

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Honesty was something that gave me a sense of freedom to be able to walk

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down the street a little bit prouder, a little bit happier,

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look people in the eye, and be proud of who I am, where I've come from,

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um, and what I represent.

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It's ten years since Alfie came out,

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and he's now a celebrated gay icon the world over.

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Fashanu.

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Oh, oh, what a goal!

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Oh, that's a magnificent goal!

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The only top-flight male footballer to come out whilst playing in the UK

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was Justin Fashanu.

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His story is very different to that of Alfie Thomas.

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When he came out in 1990,

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he was subject to vile abuse on the terraces, in the press,

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and on the streets.

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In 1998, having been accused of sexual assault,

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Fashanu hanged himself.

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So, I'm on my way now to see Amal Fashanu,

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who is the niece of Justin Fashanu.

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And I just want to chat to her, cos I want to know her experiences,

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cos she's done a similar project to this.

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-Hello, my lovely.

-Hi, how are you?

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Five years ago, Amal Fashanu made her own documentary

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about the world of football and the homophobia her uncle suffered.

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You know when you went to the governing bodies about Justin,

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did they take any kind of, any blame, or give you kind of,

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I suppose, any empathy towards what happened with him?

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I think definitely empathy,

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because that's a very diplomatic and very good way of describing,

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you know. I think because Justin passed away,

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there is a certain sense of,

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kind of diplomacy, in a way.

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You're not going to obviously offend to that extreme.

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I'm quite hard-core when it comes to that,

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cos I was really wanting to defend Justin,

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because what I did realise was that football in general,

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it's a very particular sport, you know.

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It's not like rugby, it's not like cricket.

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Within football, I feel like there is a special type of community.

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I don't know whether you can call it

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a macho kind of society environment, which is very closed, you know?

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I think that there is a lot of money involved in it

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and it is very hard to actually get the truth

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and actually understand what's going on.

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I mean, for me, what was most shocking about my documentary

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was the fact that, you know, the FA could say

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that the reason why there is nothing

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really in place for a gay footballer

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would be because there are no gay footballers.

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You know...!

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-Yeah...

-I have friends who are gay footballers.

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I would never say their name, I would never say anything,

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but what can they do?

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Yeah. Do you think that now,

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potentially, it could be an environment that is ready

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for a player to come out?

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I would love, love, love to say yes.

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But really, you know, within football,

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have attitudes really changed,

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you know? Are the people, you know, at the boards level kind of thing,

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are they really changing their attitude?

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Will it ever change?

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Maybe when I have children, you know, at that point, I think yes.

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Within rugby, I think even cricket, they're sports which,

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it is bad for me to say, but they're more elegant,

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they seem like the fans are more intelligent.

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With football, I really don't see anything changing

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for the next five years. I just feel like

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until a big footballer currently playing decides to be brave,

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to say and be who they are, I think we're going to be waiting.

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You think that will be the flip,

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-when a footballer comes out?

-Definitely.

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Fashanu came in!

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It's almost 20 years since Justin Fashanu died,

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but abuse on the terraces is still rife.

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And now there is a whole new world of abuse online.

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A personal message to Pogba, who is a Manchester United footballer.

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"Pogba, a faggot."

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And then they've got, "Fellaini, burn this faggot."

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Just streams of it.

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-"All Arsenal fans are

-BLEEP

-faggots, ass bitches, and suck

-BLEEP...

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All these people who are writing this, being gay is the lowest form

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of...life on this Earth.

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But nobody's stopping it.

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Like, say you replace any of these words with a racist comment,

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people would comment on it

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and people would be negative towards them.

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God, "Messi is a faggot."

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-"Suck a

-BLEEP,

-faggot.

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"No-one gives a shit about what you think.

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"Get off the crack, you faggot abortion survivor,

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"14-year-old runt rent boy."

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It's mad, that, like, you read these and you think,

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if there was a guy hiding his sexuality

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and wanting to potentially come out,

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but afraid of what he's going to go into,

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there are people with these views in the stands, week in, week out.

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If they think like that and act like that,

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what kind of environment within a football ground

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is that going to create?

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Earlier this year,

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a House of Commons committee reported on homophobia in sport.

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It discovered that in 2017,

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we have more openly gay sports professionals than ever before.

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Tom Daley in diving.

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Hockey stars Kate and Helen Richardson-Walsh -

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the first same-sex married couple to win Olympic golds.

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And rugby ref Nigel Owens.

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Stay, stay.

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What's your view of the underlying culture and attitudes within rugby,

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and do you have any causes for concern?

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If somebody was to ask me, is rugby a homophobic sport,

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then my answer would be no,

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because I couldn't be who I am today and referee at the level I am today

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if rugby was that case.

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After spending several months questioning people in sport,

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the MPs welcomed the steps taken by the industry to address LGBT issues.

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However, the report was universally scathing

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about homophobia in football.

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What is it about football that makes it lag so far behind

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civilised society?

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The two leading football bodies -

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the Premier League and the Football Association -

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were asked to give evidence, and it was Greg Clarke,

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the chairman of the FA, who caused the biggest stir.

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What do you think would happen to a gay player who came out today?

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I think there would be significant abuse.

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-Do you?

-I do.

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If I was a gay man, why would I expose myself to that?

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Alfie's arranged to meet MP Damian Collins...

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-Hello, Damian.

-..chair of the parliamentary committee.

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There is a problem with homophobia in football.

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There is a problem with the way fans behave in stadia.

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There is clearly a problem, I think, within the culture of the sport,

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that no footballer feels comfortable about coming out.

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It's not only that there are no current players playing throughout.

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There are no gay young players in academies.

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-You know, there are no...

-Managers, coaches.

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..coaches, nothing, you know, so it is all through the game.

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Do you also feel then that because there are no openly gay players,

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they almost feel that there is no problem and we have nothing to do,

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because we have no gay players

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which, to me, is a raging sign of warning,

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because there are no gay players.

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I think the FA know

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that there must be gay footballers.

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There must be a considerable number of gay footballers.

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And I think what the FA want to see

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is a change within their sport

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so that those footballers feel comfortable being out.

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What I don't think the FA know is how to achieve that.

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And I think, as well, it is, whilst we can look at the abuse

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within the stadia and say that's something, you know, we can hear it,

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we can see it, we know who is doing it.

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And say, "There are some idiots doing that,

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"let's stop them doing it,"

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but is that all that's holding people back,

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or is it actually something cultural within the sport itself, you know,

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within that team environment within the clubs,

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and actually the clubs and the football authorities

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are not doing enough to really look inside the sport

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and look at how... the way the sport is run

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may be putting some players off coming out?

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My gut feeling is that actually they are glad that there is nobody out,

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because they will not know how to deal with it.

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A player could pick up a phone and make a phone call tomorrow,

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and decide that he has to come out because, you know what,

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he can't live his life as a liar.

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My fear is, you know,

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what the hell has any of the governing bodies

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got in their armoury to protect them or to support them?

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So, what are Greg Clarke and the FA doing about it?

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I'm just cautious of encouraging people to come out

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until we've done our part of the bargain

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and stamped out that abuse so they can enjoy the football.

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RINGING TONE

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After a number of unanswered phone messages and one e-mail,

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Alfie's still trying to find out.

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We tried to contact you and you did respond to one of our e-mails,

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but since then we have had no contact with you,

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so I hope to chat to you hopefully next week.

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If not, we will call you back,

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but thank you for your time.

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Take care, buddy, bye.

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The thing is, I understand that they are running big organisations,

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but also the responsibility that comes with running a big

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organisation is staying in touch with not only the grassroots,

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but also people who want to kind of make a difference and make a change,

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so it is extremely difficult, but, you know,

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I didn't get to where I did in my rugby career by giving up,

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by falling at the first hurdle.

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18 months ago,

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the British tabloid claimed two players were poised to come out.

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But no-one did and the story disappeared.

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Alfie's agent is Emanuele Palladino.

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He also represents several footballers.

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So, without naming any names,

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do you personally know of any footballers

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who are hiding their sexuality

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within the Football League right now?

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-Yes, I do.

-Yeah?

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And I think it is really difficult.

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And I know the lies that they are living,

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and I know the fear that they have, and I know they are not happy.

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And yet they feel they have got no option.

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And I think that is really,

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really sad in today's world, that you have to live a lie like that.

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How do you feel agents and representatives

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of football...footballers,

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what do you feel their view is towards footballers coming out?

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I think the default reaction is don't come out,

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that football's not ready for you, which I think is a shame.

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I think it is very difficult to come out.

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You know, they said that a footballer

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was going to be coming out, and as a result of that article,

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loads of footballers were being tweeted saying,

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"Tell me you are not gay, tell me it is not you."

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Now, if you are that gay footballer,

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you're going to be looking at every single thing online and you're going

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to be reading those homophobic tweets and going, "Actually, do you know what? I can't do this."

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So, if you had the power to do something within football right now

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to create a better environment for an LGBT player to come out,

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what is the one thing you would do to change football now?

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The million-dollar question!

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It's two things. One is,

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can the governing body be more vocal in trying to stamp out homophobia?

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And two is, can a footballer come out?

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Because if a footballer CAN come out,

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he can help that campaign by being him.

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And it comes back to you.

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When you came out, I always said Gareth Thomas is new territory.

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Gareth Thomas is blazing a new trail that no-one has done,

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and you changed people's minds and perceptions by being you.

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But that is not easy. And, you know, there is no magic wand,

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but that would be it - governing bodies to improve more,

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and a footballer to find the courage.

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But, you know, that may never happen.

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Oh, it's lovely! Robbie Rogers!

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Oh, yes!

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On the entire planet,

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there is currently just one openly gay male footballer

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playing at the top level.

0:18:370:18:39

And Alfie has travelled halfway around the world to Los Angeles

0:18:410:18:45

to meet him.

0:18:450:18:47

-What's going on?

-Hello, bud, how are you doing, all right?

-Good.

0:18:470:18:49

Come on in, guys.

0:18:510:18:53

-Nice humble house!

-HE CHUCKLES

0:18:530:18:56

LA Galaxy star Robbie Rogers is not only a US international,

0:18:560:19:00

he also has experience of playing in the UK.

0:19:000:19:03

Before coming out in 2013,

0:19:040:19:07

he fulfilled a childhood dream of playing in England,

0:19:070:19:10

signing for Leeds United.

0:19:100:19:12

He was soon taken aback by the levels of abuse in the British game.

0:19:140:19:18

A few people start shouting something that other people feel

0:19:180:19:21

it's OK to be, like, shouting something, and it's like

0:19:210:19:23

this pack mentality where they all start going. And there's

0:19:230:19:26

the adrenaline and the aggression, which is so weird to watch sometimes.

0:19:260:19:29

I remember being in England and watching young kids feeding off the

0:19:290:19:32

aggression of their parents,

0:19:320:19:33

which is actually really sad and disgusting to me.

0:19:330:19:36

They don't realise how that's affecting someone's life,

0:19:380:19:42

over their whole life and their emotional state and their happiness.

0:19:420:19:46

You know, they think that they are

0:19:460:19:47

hopefully just affecting a game for 90 minutes.

0:19:470:19:49

Coping with crowds was tough.

0:19:510:19:54

Coping with people on his own side was tougher.

0:19:540:19:58

I mean, I remember a coach saying, like,

0:19:580:20:00

"Don't pass the ball like a faggot."

0:20:000:20:02

That was just so ridiculous that he would be dumb enough to say

0:20:020:20:04

-something like this.

-Yeah.

-There was discussion is that I heard,

0:20:040:20:07

where guys would be next to me on a bike, riding a bike after a game,

0:20:070:20:10

just doing a cool down, and they would be, like,

0:20:100:20:14

"How disgusting is it that..." "You know, how disgusting, how can a man

0:20:140:20:17

"even go through the act of loving another man?"

0:20:170:20:19

Like, how disgusting that would be.

0:20:190:20:20

And they would be talking about that and I would be there on my bike, like, "Shit. I'm never coming out."

0:20:200:20:25

I would get almost like a cramp, like it was almost hard for me

0:20:250:20:28

to breathe when someone said something like that

0:20:280:20:30

in the locker room because I was so afraid of being,

0:20:300:20:32

like, ostracised from the group of guys.

0:20:320:20:34

So someone would say something and I'd go out to do a training session,

0:20:340:20:37

and I'd just moved to England and I was trying to compete

0:20:370:20:40

with these guys who were great footballers and I was, like,

0:20:400:20:43

still dealing with that pain in my body from someone saying words.

0:20:430:20:46

You don't realise that someone with their words can be so damaging

0:20:460:20:50

to your confidence and your soul.

0:20:500:20:52

Despairing, and no longer prepared to live a lie,

0:20:530:20:57

Robbie quit Britain and turned his back on football.

0:20:570:21:00

He returned to the US and came out to his family and friends.

0:21:010:21:04

Being honest to myself,

0:21:060:21:07

being honest to my family especially was important.

0:21:070:21:09

You know, eventually coming out in a more public way

0:21:090:21:13

because I still felt like I was still closeted.

0:21:130:21:15

Even though at first I was like, "I don't owe anyone anything,"

0:21:150:21:19

but I still felt a little bit...

0:21:190:21:20

I didn't expect that feeling.

0:21:200:21:22

I thought, after I came out to my family and friends,

0:21:220:21:25

that I would be kind of free from that, but...

0:21:250:21:28

I didn't expect to feel like I still needed to just, like,

0:21:280:21:32

write something and post it or wherever.

0:21:320:21:35

-Yeah.

-Which then...

0:21:350:21:36

After I did that, I was like, I felt, like, so free.

0:21:360:21:39

Finally out publicly,

0:21:400:21:42

a relieved and liberated Robbie resumed his football career

0:21:420:21:46

-with LA Galaxy.

-Another run there!

0:21:460:21:48

And there's the tie goal! It was Robbie Rogers coming through. 1-1.

0:21:480:21:53

One unexpected plus was that, as the only gay top-flight footballer,

0:21:530:21:58

he was suddenly a magnet to sponsors.

0:21:580:22:02

The honesty is something any brand wants to be connected to.

0:22:020:22:06

Yes, I think the younger generation now especially loves connecting

0:22:060:22:11

to...honesty, people that are different, that are creative,

0:22:110:22:15

that are willing to, you know, stand out.

0:22:150:22:17

I think brands are smart and they are starting to, you know,

0:22:170:22:20

latch onto that. So I don't think any athletes,

0:22:200:22:24

male or female, in any sport,

0:22:240:22:26

I don't think they have to fear that, because I think really

0:22:260:22:29

there's a lot of brands out there that want to work with athletes,

0:22:290:22:32

-and especially ones that stand out in a positive way.

-Yeah.

0:22:320:22:35

That's America, but in Britain things are very different.

0:22:370:22:41

Alfie heads to the headquarters of the players union, the PFA.

0:22:450:22:49

Gordon Taylor is the Chief Executive,

0:22:500:22:53

and Simone Pound, the head of equalities.

0:22:530:22:56

As a body that is there to protect the players,

0:22:560:22:59

do you feel that if a professional footballer came out within England

0:22:590:23:03

and Wales, that the PFA would have a procedure and a policy there

0:23:030:23:07

to protect him?

0:23:070:23:09

Well, I hope so, and

0:23:090:23:12

football being a team game, it is about offering support

0:23:120:23:16

in whatever area.

0:23:160:23:18

We talked about other areas that we deal with, with depression, and...

0:23:180:23:24

..issues with regard to anti-racism, anti-Semitism,

0:23:260:23:31

and we look after the women in the game.

0:23:310:23:34

Quite a number of our older players with suffering, need new hips,

0:23:340:23:38

or arthritis, so to get back straightaway,

0:23:380:23:42

where it is something that we are very much aware of

0:23:420:23:45

and the players who have come out are normally players

0:23:450:23:48

who have come out once they've retired from the game.

0:23:480:23:50

I think Robbie Rogers is still playing.

0:23:500:23:52

-Yeah, he is.

-I think... how he felt so much better,

0:23:520:23:56

so obviously when you look,

0:23:560:23:58

we are to some extent looking at the anniversary of 50 years ago and

0:23:580:24:03

legislation, and when you think some of the actual heroes of this country,

0:24:030:24:07

Second World War, you know,

0:24:070:24:10

different individuals who were gay, and yet,

0:24:100:24:14

you know, were vilified, and you think, "What is that about?"

0:24:140:24:17

You know, "How could they have to cope with that?"

0:24:170:24:19

And so you do feel that sympathy.

0:24:190:24:21

It is a good question,

0:24:230:24:24

but in answering it I would love the environment to be comfortable enough

0:24:240:24:29

so that that would happen.

0:24:290:24:31

Do you feel you can create that?

0:24:310:24:33

Only because I just feel personally,

0:24:330:24:35

from my own story, when I came out...

0:24:350:24:37

..as being gay and carried on playing,

0:24:390:24:41

there was nothing in place, and that was what really, really scared me.

0:24:410:24:45

And for me, I just think if there is something open, a policy open.

0:24:450:24:49

You were a pathfinder, and that's what I said, we have looked at how

0:24:490:24:54

to judge what happened with regard to yourself,

0:24:540:24:57

and in cricket and in other sports,

0:24:570:25:00

and tried to take out what has worked.

0:25:000:25:02

But, again, what kind of interests me is you are saying

0:25:020:25:05

you are learning lessons from other people.

0:25:050:25:08

I'm still not really understanding, to be honest, what did you learn?

0:25:080:25:11

Just, really, what we learnt from your story, Gareth,

0:25:110:25:15

and what you were saying about where we have come from as a game.

0:25:150:25:18

And obviously we have worked on this area for a number of years now,

0:25:190:25:23

I have been in post for nearly 17 years now,

0:25:230:25:27

and can see I think we have actually made huge strides as a game,

0:25:270:25:31

with regards to LGBT inclusion and homophobia in particular.

0:25:310:25:35

Obviously as the players' union,

0:25:350:25:38

it is something that we've really pushed for, in terms of a protocol,

0:25:380:25:43

in terms of procedures in and around the game, and obviously your story.

0:25:430:25:49

And just really...

0:25:490:25:50

..like you did, spoke to the coach,

0:25:520:25:54

made sure that your team-mates were supportive, and the...

0:25:540:25:58

..rugby associations came out and kind of supported and endorsed their

0:26:000:26:04

belief in you as a person, and I think that is really,

0:26:040:26:07

you know, best practice,

0:26:070:26:09

all that anyone would do, and what we will do as a game.

0:26:090:26:12

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

0:26:140:26:17

I am literally dumbfounded, like, I am literally dumbfounded,

0:26:190:26:22

because personally if I had been doing a job for 17 years

0:26:220:26:24

on controlling the diversity and welfare of players,

0:26:240:26:28

then I am sure as hell, if I was asked a question...

0:26:280:26:32

which is such a current topic at the moment,

0:26:320:26:35

about a potential footballer coming out to be gay,

0:26:350:26:37

I would be on it. I would have every point,

0:26:370:26:40

I would answer every question,

0:26:400:26:42

because I would have been prepared for it.

0:26:420:26:44

And there is a good old saying in sport,

0:26:460:26:49

is failure to prepare is preparing to fail.

0:26:490:26:52

And this, to me, is an absolute failure.

0:26:530:26:55

Alfie tries again to speak to Greg Clarke, chairman of the FA.

0:26:570:27:02

I am personally ashamed that they don't feel safe to come out.

0:27:020:27:06

Answering machine.

0:27:080:27:09

I tell you what, I wouldn't want

0:27:130:27:15

to be like a multi-million pound business

0:27:150:27:18

trying to get hold of them to do some sponsorship deal or something,

0:27:180:27:21

because...very difficult to get hold of, or maybe it's just me!

0:27:210:27:24

Everything I went through out there...

0:27:270:27:29

..was nothing compared to the demons inside.

0:27:310:27:34

Alfie starred in a high-profile ad campaign about his coming out.

0:27:340:27:38

I turned to my team-mates.

0:27:380:27:39

Telling them I was gay was the toughest thing I've ever done.

0:27:410:27:45

But when I needed them the most,

0:27:470:27:49

they were there for me.

0:27:490:27:50

For me, it was such an honour to have my story associated with it,

0:27:570:28:02

but I suppose as a brand, as a company,

0:28:020:28:05

did you feel it might kind of weaken your stance in any way?

0:28:050:28:08

No, we didn't. And I'll tell you why,

0:28:080:28:10

because we look for stories that are about strength of character

0:28:100:28:13

and about bonds of friendship

0:28:130:28:16

that ultimately have a kind of positive effect on the world.

0:28:160:28:21

-Right.

-That's what we found so inspiring about YOUR story.

0:28:210:28:24

Did you feel, as a company, it was a positive?

0:28:240:28:27

Absolutely. Your film scored better, like,

0:28:270:28:30

significantly better than our average Guinness performance,

0:28:300:28:34

and so that is comparing to some pretty successful,

0:28:340:28:36

very famous Guinness advertising.

0:28:360:28:37

-Right.

-And this scored higher than it.

0:28:370:28:39

And I think it's because people were attracted to your human story.

0:28:390:28:43

Obviously what I'm doing at the moment is, I'm kind of in this world

0:28:430:28:47

of football, which is a very new world to me,

0:28:470:28:51

and is probably more focused on sponsorship,

0:28:510:28:56

on advertising than any other sport.

0:28:560:28:58

And I think there is a lot of fear for people wanting to be themselves

0:28:580:29:01

within sport, because advertising...

0:29:010:29:04

..is such a big part of it and they don't want to lose their attachment

0:29:050:29:09

to their brands. Now, if a footballer was to come out

0:29:090:29:12

within that game,

0:29:120:29:13

do you feel like they would be more of an attractive proposition?

0:29:130:29:17

I think there would be brands that would be knocking down the door

0:29:170:29:20

to want to work with the first person that did that,

0:29:200:29:23

because, the same reasons that we wanted to work with you,

0:29:230:29:27

because you were the first, you were a role model.

0:29:270:29:30

-Yeah.

-And it made for an unbelievable personal story

0:29:300:29:34

as a result of doing that, because of the burden of being first

0:29:340:29:37

-as well.

-Yeah, yeah.

0:29:370:29:39

Last year, a survey found that 72% of fans had heard homophobic abuse

0:29:440:29:50

on the terraces.

0:29:500:29:51

All of the football authorities

0:29:530:29:56

have financed campaign group Kick It Out to create a free app

0:29:560:29:59

for reporting abuse.

0:29:590:30:01

Yet across the whole of last season, the app was used just 19 times.

0:30:030:30:08

Kick It Out's chief executive officer is Roisin Wood.

0:30:120:30:16

Now, I can look after myself, but I was at a football match

0:30:160:30:19

and I thought, do you know what,

0:30:190:30:21

there's homophobic abuse going on here and I would find that extremely

0:30:210:30:26

difficult and extremely intimidating to do anything about it.

0:30:260:30:31

It's like, you know, it just seemed like a really scary environment.

0:30:310:30:35

It is very, very intimidating to go,

0:30:350:30:36

"Hi, there is a big guy over there, and he's shouting homophobic abuse.

0:30:360:30:40

-"Can you do something about it?"

-Or if there's 100 little guys,

0:30:400:30:43

-it's scary.

-Exactly. Of course it is.

0:30:430:30:45

You would be naive not to recognise that.

0:30:450:30:48

So, do you feel the campaigns that you've set up,

0:30:480:30:52

do you feel that's creating a better environment, at this moment,

0:30:520:30:56

for football grounds?

0:30:560:30:58

To me, could we do more?

0:30:580:31:00

Yes, of course we can do more.

0:31:000:31:02

We could do more, the football bodies can do more,

0:31:020:31:05

the clubs can do more.

0:31:050:31:06

So, why isn't it happening?

0:31:060:31:08

-That's the thing, though.

-I think it's happening.

0:31:080:31:11

It's like everything, there's 92 clubs.

0:31:110:31:12

I think some clubs are brilliant at it.

0:31:120:31:14

-Yeah, OK.

-I think some clubs are not that good at it and there's ones in

0:31:140:31:18

the middle that are OK at it.

0:31:180:31:20

Sometimes clubs, I think, are a bit afraid about doing the wrong thing.

0:31:200:31:24

So rather than do the wrong thing, they'll do nothing.

0:31:240:31:27

To me, the only way this will ever,

0:31:280:31:31

ever be treated is to have a whole-game approach because one,

0:31:310:31:34

people can't do on their own. Certainly Kick It Out can't do it

0:31:340:31:37

-on its own.

-OK.

-We're the campaigning body but it needs the buy-in from the clubs.

0:31:370:31:41

It needs the buy-in from everybody.

0:31:410:31:43

And they need all...not to tick the box, and that's what makes me crazy.

0:31:430:31:49

They need to take it seriously.

0:31:490:31:50

And I think that's the problem.

0:31:520:31:54

INDISTINCT SINGING

0:31:540:31:56

Keen to see how individual clubs control homophobia,

0:32:030:32:07

Alfie has been invited to Cardiff City for an end-of-season clash with

0:32:070:32:11

Newcastle United.

0:32:110:32:12

Toon! Toon!

0:32:140:32:17

City have their own alternative to the Kick It Out app -

0:32:190:32:22

a live reporting system advertised throughout the stadium.

0:32:220:32:26

Anybody, anywhere in the ground can see the signs.

0:32:270:32:30

They can send a text, they can make a call.

0:32:300:32:32

The call is then - or text - is answered in the control room.

0:32:320:32:35

If they want to keep it anonymous, they can.

0:32:350:32:37

We can then act on the information we get,

0:32:370:32:39

look at the system. So we've got access to the ticketing system,

0:32:390:32:41

see which area of the ground they are in,

0:32:410:32:43

and take appropriate action from there.

0:32:430:32:45

And it is hot, so we get it there and then and we can try to act on it

0:32:450:32:48

during the game, if something is happening.

0:32:480:32:50

Is this, do you feel, more of a relevance than the Kick It Out app?

0:32:500:32:54

We've got the option to act on the information we get on match day,

0:32:540:32:58

whereas most of the time with something reported

0:32:580:33:00

via the Kick It Out app,

0:33:000:33:02

you get afterwards and then you've got to try and identify where the

0:33:020:33:05

people were sat, who the people they were complaining against are.

0:33:050:33:08

We've got more of an opportunity to try and stop things happening

0:33:080:33:11

-further down the line, and there and then.

-Yeah.

0:33:110:33:14

Match-day security is down to stadium manager Wayne Nash.

0:33:190:33:23

-How are you doing.

-How are you?

0:33:230:33:26

-Yeah, good, man.

-Good stuff. Busy here, boss?

0:33:260:33:28

Wayne coordinates the police and stewards

0:33:300:33:33

from the event control room.

0:33:330:33:34

So this is a multi-agency control room.

0:33:340:33:37

Multiple CCTV cameras monitor all points,

0:33:370:33:40

both inside and outside the ground.

0:33:400:33:43

If you look up and see a camera, it will make you feel a bit safer.

0:33:430:33:47

Especially when there is an incident,

0:33:470:33:49

you look how tight we can zoom in.

0:33:490:33:50

You can see the motif on people's shirts.

0:33:500:33:53

We have had some cracking stories where people are misbehaving,

0:33:530:33:56

we can go on the system, find out the person's seat number,

0:33:560:34:00

add them in, he will bring up his ticketing details

0:34:000:34:04

and I can ring his mobile.

0:34:040:34:06

And this guy is picking up his mobile up and I'm saying,

0:34:060:34:08

"Do us a favour. Your behaviour is out of order.

0:34:080:34:10

-"Give it a rest."

-Whilst physical abuse can be monitored remotely,

0:34:100:34:15

verbal abuse requires direct intervention.

0:34:150:34:19

And this is where the stewards step in and handle any abuse they hear.

0:34:210:34:26

# ..going down and the Mags are going up... #

0:34:260:34:30

Tonight, they will be dealing with 23,000 fans.

0:34:300:34:35

The point I thought about is when they walk through the turnstiles,

0:34:350:34:38

everybody is getting searched for kind of weapons or, you know,

0:34:380:34:42

something that could cause damage.

0:34:420:34:45

And the reality is, there's things that can cause damage that you can't

0:34:450:34:48

find on them, there's words they can use that come out of their mouth,

0:34:480:34:50

and that is something that is uncontrollable,

0:34:500:34:54

really, until people get in there.

0:34:540:34:56

Because they can sneak

0:34:560:34:59

their voices and their opinions in,

0:34:590:35:01

and then it's how it is controlled when they are within the ground.

0:35:010:35:03

The chief steward is Mark Jenkins.

0:35:090:35:12

Within ten minutes of kick-off, there is an incident.

0:35:150:35:18

We've got one racist comment which was made to one of our players.

0:35:200:35:24

It was witnessed by a supervisor of ours.

0:35:240:35:27

They are actually talking to the gentleman now.

0:35:270:35:29

I spoke to the police to warn them.

0:35:290:35:31

Debbie, you will have to get a witness statement for that one.

0:35:310:35:35

-No problem.

-And it was against Harris?

0:35:350:35:37

-Kadeem Harris.

-So it was against a player?

0:35:370:35:40

It was against a player, yeah.

0:35:400:35:41

Called him a black...

0:35:410:35:43

Right, OK.

0:35:430:35:44

The offender is escorted from the stadium

0:35:460:35:49

and it is now a police matter.

0:35:490:35:51

If he goes to court with that, he will be banned from football.

0:35:510:35:53

Newcastle should ban him anyway. We'll inform Newcastle.

0:35:530:35:57

-Right.

-And they will ban him next, you know,

0:35:570:36:00

he will be gutted now for next year, won't he?

0:36:000:36:02

-Yeah.

-But that's great.

0:36:020:36:03

Let me ask you an honest question, then.

0:36:030:36:06

You know he got banned for making a racist comment

0:36:060:36:08

because there is no racism in football.

0:36:080:36:10

-Yeah.

-Do you think, like, in there...

0:36:100:36:13

..not you, maybe one of the other stewards,

0:36:140:36:17

would they treat this in the exact same way

0:36:170:36:19

if it was a homophobic comment?

0:36:190:36:20

If I'm truthful, I would like to think that...

0:36:230:36:26

But the reality is...

0:36:260:36:28

I would like to think 100% they would.

0:36:280:36:30

-Yeah.

-All of them.

0:36:300:36:31

Yeah.

0:36:310:36:33

If I'm truthful, you may not get that.

0:36:330:36:36

But we're not all perfect.

0:36:360:36:38

Listen, no, mate.

0:36:380:36:39

But I would like to think that everyone would.

0:36:390:36:44

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:36:440:36:45

I think Mark is probably the first real,

0:36:490:36:52

honest person to say how the reality

0:36:520:36:55

of trying to police homophobic abuse is, and where on the radar it is,

0:36:550:37:00

in the fact that somebody was kicked out of the ground for racism,

0:37:000:37:05

for racist abuse. And the reality would have been if that was

0:37:050:37:08

homophobic abuse, it probably wouldn't have happened.

0:37:080:37:11

So he's the first person to give us a real answer of what's going on -

0:37:110:37:16

not seeing a TV camera in front of him and thinking,

0:37:160:37:19

"This is what I should say, so this is what I will say."

0:37:190:37:21

He said, "This is what I think it is, and that's the reality of it."

0:37:210:37:25

But what I WILL say, and what I appreciate now,

0:37:290:37:32

it is definitely a minority.

0:37:320:37:33

Which to me, should make it easier to stamp it out.

0:37:330:37:35

Lose this minority from the game -

0:37:350:37:38

nobody really loses, everybody wins.

0:37:380:37:41

So I'm not understanding how this minority is still able

0:37:410:37:45

to create just such chaos.

0:37:450:37:47

There are, though, some grassroots initiatives to improve the game.

0:37:540:37:58

Football V Homophobia -

0:38:060:38:08

a pressure group that organises an annual month of action,

0:38:080:38:12

highlighting issues across the game.

0:38:120:38:14

Its impact is growing.

0:38:180:38:20

But currently only a third of all professional clubs support it.

0:38:200:38:24

Probably the most famous campaign is Rainbow Laces -

0:38:270:38:31

originated by gay rights charity Stonewall,

0:38:310:38:34

and this year sponsored by the Premier League.

0:38:340:38:37

It encourages the UK's 5,000 professional footballers

0:38:380:38:42

to wear rainbow laces on one Saturday of each season.

0:38:420:38:47

It is up to the individual whether they take part.

0:38:470:38:50

The majority choose not to.

0:38:500:38:53

What about the LGBT awareness campaigns

0:38:560:38:59

run by gay fans themselves?

0:38:590:39:01

Since 2013,

0:39:010:39:03

12 of the Premier League teams have had LGBT fan groups officially

0:39:030:39:08

recognised by their clubs.

0:39:080:39:10

Some clubs allow banners.

0:39:100:39:13

But that's no guarantee against abuse.

0:39:130:39:15

This week I was with a female partner

0:39:150:39:19

and we were walking over the bridge,

0:39:190:39:20

to the match. And she kissed me goodbye, really briefly,

0:39:200:39:23

not like a make-out session or anything like that.

0:39:230:39:25

It was a real brief peck.

0:39:250:39:27

And instantly there were some lads walking past and we got,

0:39:270:39:30

"Oh, what is that? That is disgusting. Did they just ... kiss?"

0:39:300:39:34

I'm still very uneasy about holding hands or anything like that.

0:39:340:39:37

Because having been attacked a couple of times,

0:39:370:39:40

-for me, it's too dangerous.

-Yeah.

0:39:400:39:43

What worries me and what concerns me is that everyone, like,

0:39:430:39:47

has their own agenda, so everyone pulls in their own direction.

0:39:470:39:51

And they are all doing good things, but them things are not spread

0:39:510:39:53

across football, they are just individual for that ground.

0:39:530:39:56

And then you go to another ground, and there might be nothing.

0:39:560:39:58

Or you go to another ground and there might be something

0:39:580:40:01

completely different. You know, what I feel should happen

0:40:010:40:04

is an umbrella law,

0:40:040:40:05

which basically, I feel, the people have the power to do that, the FA,

0:40:050:40:09

the Premier League, they have the power to say to all clubs,

0:40:090:40:13

all players,

0:40:130:40:15

all stewards, "This is what you should do.

0:40:150:40:18

"Or this is what has to be done in every ground."

0:40:180:40:21

These are thoughts that Alfie would like to share with Greg Clarke,

0:40:210:40:24

chairman of the FA.

0:40:240:40:25

We may not have figured out how to crack it yet,

0:40:250:40:27

but there's a deep loathing of that sort of behaviour

0:40:270:40:30

throughout football.

0:40:300:40:31

If only they could compare notes.

0:40:310:40:33

RINGING TONE

0:40:340:40:36

-ANSWER PHONE MESSAGE:

-Hello. I'm sorry, but about the person

0:40:370:40:40

you've called is not available.

0:40:400:40:41

Please leave your message after the tone.

0:40:410:40:43

-BEEP

-It's Gareth Thomas here.

0:40:430:40:46

A call-back would be much appreciated, mate.

0:40:460:40:48

If not, I'll try you again. Take care, buddy. Bye.

0:40:480:40:51

I feel like I'm working in a call centre,

0:40:550:40:57

trying to sell somebody something that they really don't want.

0:40:570:41:00

But, you know what, it takes five seconds for me to pick up a phone

0:41:020:41:06

and keep calling. And if I take five seconds out of my day

0:41:060:41:09

every now and again, then so be it.

0:41:090:41:10

I pick the phone up and I keep calling them.

0:41:100:41:12

Until one of them has the balls to either say, "Yeah, do you know,

0:41:120:41:15

"we'll meet you."

0:41:150:41:16

Or say, "Do you know what? No, it doesn't interest us."

0:41:160:41:19

Either way, it's a definitive answer.

0:41:190:41:21

Until then, Alfie is taking matters into his own hands.

0:41:230:41:27

It just seems to me that people who are at the top of the game are not

0:41:290:41:33

interested. And if I was a player,

0:41:330:41:35

and as we know for a fact that there are Premier League footballers

0:41:350:41:39

who are gay and closeted, then, to me,

0:41:390:41:42

this just shows a sign that the top of the game doesn't really care.

0:41:420:41:46

It doesn't want to make a change,

0:41:460:41:49

it doesn't want to actually stamp down and do something,

0:41:490:41:51

because as far as they're concerned,

0:41:510:41:54

it's a very minimal problem

0:41:540:41:56

and they've got a bigger issue to deal with -

0:41:560:41:58

and that's keeping the game of football, probably making money.

0:41:580:42:02

So rather than just talk about it now, I feel it is time,

0:42:020:42:05

from what I've learned, to do something about it.

0:42:050:42:07

So we're going to see lawyers to try and get some kind of charter

0:42:070:42:10

drawn up. Take this charter to the likes of the FA,

0:42:100:42:13

the Premier League, to the clubs, to the owners,

0:42:130:42:16

to say, within our ground...

0:42:160:42:18

..this form of abuse is not tolerated and will be punished.

0:42:200:42:25

To see if they will sign it, because to me

0:42:260:42:29

there is no reason why they shouldn't sign it.

0:42:290:42:32

The charter Alfie has in mind is a code of practice against homophobia,

0:42:360:42:40

as already used in other European leagues.

0:42:400:42:43

-Hello, bud. How are you doing?

-Not bad. You?

0:42:430:42:47

Yeah, good. Good to see you.

0:42:470:42:49

He has chosen international lawyer Gabriele Giambrone to help.

0:42:490:42:53

I think we need to change the culture completely from the top.

0:42:530:42:57

I mean, you heard an interview by the FA chairman this year.

0:42:570:43:01

He is the one who said this is not the right time

0:43:010:43:04

for a gay footballer to come out.

0:43:040:43:06

And this is coming from the top of the FA.

0:43:060:43:08

If the chairman of Microsoft or Facebook would say,

0:43:080:43:13

it's not the right time for one of my employees

0:43:130:43:17

to come out as being gay,

0:43:170:43:18

he would be sued for thousands and thousands of pounds.

0:43:180:43:22

So, it feels like football is in a galaxy

0:43:220:43:26

miles away, with its own rules, which it's not.

0:43:260:43:29

Do you have some kind of policy or code of conduct

0:43:290:43:31

within other countries, and the UK is way behind

0:43:310:43:34

and it doesn't even know it?

0:43:340:43:36

The UK is maybe behind and maybe doesn't even know it.

0:43:360:43:40

There are countries, for example, like Spain or Italy,

0:43:400:43:43

that have stricter rules,

0:43:430:43:45

because there is a code, and the code applies to everybody.

0:43:450:43:49

I would say that for sure

0:43:490:43:51

the Italian, for example, system or the Spanish system have

0:43:510:43:56

stricter rules.

0:43:560:43:57

Whether the rules

0:43:570:43:59

are followed or not, that's another issue.

0:43:590:44:02

But at least the rules are there.

0:44:020:44:03

Even though it might sound complicated,

0:44:030:44:05

it's actually really simple.

0:44:050:44:06

You're just giving people a human right to be able to be themselves

0:44:060:44:11

and not be discriminated against for it.

0:44:110:44:14

And if you are, then you break the law.

0:44:140:44:16

Right, Gareth. I think that there are two issues here.

0:44:160:44:20

The code of practice in itself

0:44:200:44:22

is a self-regulating code that clubs may or may not adopt.

0:44:220:44:27

But the issue is that unless there is serious legal consequences of

0:44:270:44:31

breaching those rules,

0:44:310:44:32

they would just simply not be implemented by the clubs.

0:44:320:44:36

So my suggestion would be, for example,

0:44:360:44:38

just to change the Football Offences Act 1991.

0:44:380:44:42

I mean, this act is about 27 years old now.

0:44:420:44:46

If you are chanting racial abuse at the moment,

0:44:460:44:50

under the 1991 act, that is an offence.

0:44:500:44:53

If you say anything homophobic, under the act -

0:44:530:44:56

so we're referring to the 1991 act - that is NOT an offence.

0:44:560:45:00

-Right.

-So it is probably just about time we can revisit it.

0:45:000:45:03

Parliament can revisit it

0:45:030:45:05

and introduce homophobia as well as racism as one of the issues

0:45:050:45:08

that could lead to the committal of an offence.

0:45:080:45:11

While changing the law may even take Alfie a while,

0:45:120:45:15

he believes that a code of practice is achievable in the short term.

0:45:150:45:19

Really happy. I think a fantastic meeting.

0:45:220:45:24

It's great to have something to focus on.

0:45:240:45:26

But also this thing we've got to focus on

0:45:260:45:28

has a possible outcome as well.

0:45:280:45:30

So it's great, it's given a whole...

0:45:310:45:34

It's given me a whole new energy.

0:45:340:45:37

I've really found something to fight for.

0:45:370:45:39

It's the end of the football season,

0:45:430:45:45

and Brighton have been promoted to the Premier League.

0:45:450:45:48

Some supporters of their arch-rivals, Crystal Palace,

0:45:480:45:51

have gone online...

0:45:510:45:53

to congratulate them.

0:45:530:45:54

One I've just got up here is two Brighton players,

0:45:560:46:00

one is giving the other one a kiss on the cheek.

0:46:000:46:03

And the guy has wrote, "Typical of this club."

0:46:030:46:06

So the other one I have gone to is again from a Crystal Palace fan,

0:46:080:46:11

which starts off with saying...

0:46:110:46:13

"Glenn trying his hardest not to get bummed by the bender brigade."

0:46:130:46:18

And when I play that...

0:46:180:46:20

'Oh! Oh, help me.

0:46:210:46:23

'Let me get out. Oh, Christ! No! Stay away!

0:46:230:46:27

'Don't touch me.'

0:46:270:46:29

You wouldn't even expect that from children in a playground in 2017.

0:46:290:46:36

It is being retweeted.

0:46:360:46:38

It's been liked.

0:46:380:46:40

So in response,

0:46:400:46:42

the LGBT group of Crystal Palace fans, called Proud And Palace,

0:46:420:46:47

have felt that they have to make a response for this, and it reads...

0:46:470:46:52

"It isn't just banter, it's offensive.

0:46:520:46:54

"We won't accept it. We won't tolerate it

0:46:540:46:56

"and we will actively support the club in addressing it."

0:46:560:46:58

So, in response to the statement made by the LGBT group...

0:46:590:47:05

which says, "It was only a matter of time before this got out of hand and

0:47:050:47:09

"people were banging the gay PC drum.

0:47:090:47:12

"I don't think many people who join in

0:47:120:47:14

"the 'Brighton take it up the bum' chants

0:47:140:47:17

"have any real malicious intent."

0:47:170:47:19

And then underneath, "The fact that Brighton find

0:47:210:47:25

"being called gay insulting, makes THEM the homophobic ones!"

0:47:250:47:29

Wow! Wow!

0:47:290:47:31

Imagine climbing inside his head for ten minutes.

0:47:310:47:35

I would love... I would give my right arm, right,

0:47:350:47:38

to sit down in a room with some of these people,

0:47:380:47:41

just to, like, understand their views.

0:47:410:47:44

Or even just to see them.

0:47:440:47:45

"Hello, everyone. My name is Gareth Thomas,

0:47:450:47:49

"and I'm a former rugby player."

0:47:490:47:51

So Alfie adds his own post to the forum.

0:47:510:47:54

"I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion,

0:47:540:47:56

"but should also be brave enough to defend their opinions

0:47:560:47:59

"when challenged.

0:47:590:48:00

"On that note, I would really like to invite some of you to meet and

0:48:000:48:04

"exchange opinions on this subject."

0:48:040:48:06

And I will sign in as my name

0:48:060:48:08

because I am brave enough to stand for my opinions

0:48:080:48:11

and put my name to my opinions.

0:48:110:48:13

I have thought about putting a kiss,

0:48:130:48:16

but I wouldn't...cos it's football.

0:48:160:48:18

So here goes, I'm about to post it into the unknown.

0:48:180:48:22

Back of the net!

0:48:240:48:25

After 16 weeks of calls, e-mails and texts,

0:48:340:48:38

the FA is still avoiding his request

0:48:380:48:39

for an interview with chairman Greg Clarke.

0:48:390:48:42

I have a strong connection to this, and it is something

0:48:460:48:49

that I passionately, I passionately care about.

0:48:490:48:52

And that's why, you know,

0:48:540:48:55

I want to speak to people

0:48:550:48:57

who have the power to be able to make a bit of change, maybe.

0:48:570:49:01

But the Premier League -

0:49:010:49:03

the richest league in the world - have offered a meeting.

0:49:030:49:06

Thanks, mate. Cheers, man. Cheers, buddy. Bye-bye.

0:49:080:49:10

Alfie sets out with a list of questions -

0:49:150:49:18

top of which is, will the Premier League sign up

0:49:180:49:22

to his code of conduct?

0:49:220:49:23

Chief Executive Bill Bush has laid down one condition for the meeting -

0:49:250:49:30

no cameras allowed.

0:49:300:49:31

Which makes me very dubious and sceptical.

0:49:320:49:35

And I hope he can understand, er, you know, why I feel that way.

0:49:350:49:38

So I'm going to push him on some questions,

0:49:380:49:40

as to their responsibility for players, and what are they doing

0:49:400:49:44

to hold that responsibility to players.

0:49:440:49:47

But, also, it seems to me like a bit of a copout because I think maybe

0:49:470:49:51

he understands I know more about this subject than he does,

0:49:510:49:54

so he thinks when I talk to the camera about my interview about him,

0:49:540:49:58

I could probably put it in a better way than he potentially could.

0:49:580:50:01

So that is one thing. That is one of my theories, but it is definitely

0:50:010:50:05

interesting to me and very much seems like a copout

0:50:050:50:09

as to why he wouldn't talk on camera.

0:50:090:50:11

-INTERCOM:

-Premier League.

-Hello. It's Gareth Thomas,

0:50:130:50:15

I have a meeting with Bill Bush.

0:50:150:50:17

-BUZZER

-Thank you.

0:50:180:50:20

Alfie goes in, the camera remains outside.

0:50:200:50:24

The meeting lasted over 40 minutes.

0:50:320:50:34

The standard answer is, you know, "We're in line with Stonewall.

0:50:380:50:44

"We're in line with Kick it Out...

0:50:440:50:45

"Football Against Homophobia."

0:50:470:50:50

Now, all of these are kind of campaigns...

0:50:500:50:52

..that show awareness.

0:50:540:50:56

They are not campaigns that are really going forward and actually

0:50:560:51:00

stopping homophobic abuse going on.

0:51:000:51:04

I would like to know why this is all being allowed,

0:51:040:51:07

why this is all being tolerated

0:51:070:51:10

and why this all seems to be OK and nothing is being done about it.

0:51:100:51:14

Those ultimately are the answers that I was looking for.

0:51:140:51:17

And being told that, you know, you're in line with an organisation,

0:51:170:51:21

or they have passed this on to a campaign

0:51:210:51:25

is not the answer I was looking for

0:51:250:51:28

from people with ridiculous amounts of power within the game.

0:51:280:51:32

Alfie's had some responses from the Palace fans.

0:51:420:51:46

"Some mincers just don't know when to stop.

0:51:470:51:50

"There's only one Gareth Thomas, one Gareth Thomas.

0:51:500:51:52

"He used to be straight until he shagged his team-mate

0:51:520:51:56

"Now living in a felcher's fairyland."

0:51:560:51:59

Um... It's just rubbish, it's just absolutely pathetic.

0:51:590:52:02

This one now has got

0:52:020:52:04

quite a long one. It says, "Make no mistake and be warned,

0:52:040:52:08

"the BBC and Gareth are out to do a hit-piece on EPL football fans

0:52:080:52:14

"to further their aggressive gay agenda.

0:52:140:52:16

"These people

0:52:160:52:19

"are agenda-driven political activists

0:52:190:52:21

"and they already know exactly what their documentary is

0:52:210:52:24

"going to say. I am calling YOU out, Gareth.

0:52:240:52:27

"Fuck off, away from our beloved football where, everyone,

0:52:270:52:30

"including gays, are welcome to scream and shout

0:52:300:52:32

"and unload their weekly stress without

0:52:320:52:34

"fear of you bullying them with your PC propaganda."

0:52:340:52:37

It's not about, you know,

0:52:390:52:41

I've come on behalf of, like, the LGBT community.

0:52:410:52:45

I've come on behalf of somebody who knows what it's like to be in

0:52:450:52:48

a sporting environment and have to lie to everybody,

0:52:480:52:51

and the fear of potentially telling the truth.

0:52:510:52:54

"I personally think the BBC should do a bit of research

0:52:540:52:56

"on how many paedophiles are gay.

0:52:560:52:59

"It's probably why Brighton are considering erecting a massive fence

0:53:000:53:04

"around their family section."

0:53:040:53:07

Like, that is just...

0:53:070:53:08

The fact that I have even read that actually...

0:53:080:53:12

like, makes me feel sick.

0:53:120:53:14

And, again, you can imagine what kind of chant

0:53:140:53:16

that could turn into it.

0:53:160:53:17

We've got another one here that says,

0:53:170:53:20

"Amazed how juvenile and pathetic people are on here.

0:53:200:53:22

"Grow up.

0:53:220:53:23

"These school yard taunts are ridiculous.

0:53:230:53:26

"I am assuming some of you have kids.

0:53:260:53:28

"What on earth would your response be if they turned out to be gay?"

0:53:280:53:31

Again, she or he has summed it up perfectly there.

0:53:310:53:36

And the reality is that, do you know what,

0:53:360:53:38

this is not just me saying this any more.

0:53:380:53:40

This is like other fans of yours.

0:53:400:53:43

Because if you take these opinions into the football ground,

0:53:430:53:45

do you think that is OK?

0:53:450:53:48

Do you think that is fine?

0:53:480:53:49

So I'm kind of still at the place where I was at the start.

0:53:510:53:53

I'd like to meet them, I'd like to chat with them,

0:53:530:53:55

I'd like to discuss that with them.

0:53:550:53:57

Because if they assume that this documentary is already, you know,

0:53:570:54:01

already decided and already made up,

0:54:010:54:04

then come and chat with me and change my mind.

0:54:040:54:07

Alfie posts an invite, naming a time and a place.

0:54:080:54:12

So I am going to be at Graces Bar & Grill in Beckenham

0:54:120:54:15

on Wednesday 21st of June at 7pm.

0:54:150:54:17

So hopefully see you there.

0:54:170:54:19

So, the table is now set.

0:54:290:54:30

And I sit...

0:54:320:54:33

..and I wait.

0:54:360:54:37

You know, you want someone like David Beckham to stand up and say,

0:54:450:54:48

"Look, it's all right to be gay.

0:54:480:54:50

"Who cares?" You want someone like Messi to say it.

0:54:500:54:53

And then I feel that would make, like, young people be like,

0:54:530:54:57

"Well, maybe it's all right to be gay in football."

0:54:570:55:00

We need the governing bodies

0:55:050:55:07

to just increase their awareness and

0:55:070:55:09

visibility and their fight against it.

0:55:090:55:11

Because that could be the difference.

0:55:110:55:13

That could be the 1% that tips a footballer from saying,

0:55:130:55:15

"Do you know what, I've got everything and now I'm going to go."

0:55:150:55:18

And it's never going to be a perfect environment.

0:55:180:55:20

He is never going to feel ready, but he is going to think,

0:55:200:55:22

"There's enough in place that the risks are as low as they could be,

0:55:220:55:25

"let's go for it."

0:55:250:55:27

After an hour, it's clear

0:55:290:55:31

Alfie won't be exchanging views with his online abusers.

0:55:310:55:35

At this point, I can actually say

0:55:350:55:38

that whoever they are behind the messages are cowards.

0:55:380:55:41

They've called me a hell of a lot worse names.

0:55:410:55:45

And I have accepted it, and I've said, "Do you know what, that's OK.

0:55:450:55:48

"If that's your opinion, fine. But discuss your opinion with me."

0:55:480:55:51

So, empty chairs...

0:55:510:55:54

not filled by cowards.

0:55:540:55:55

He never heard back from FA chairman Greg Clarke, either.

0:55:590:56:03

But Alfie HAS heard from his lawyers.

0:56:060:56:09

They've drawn up and sent him the code of practice.

0:56:090:56:12

There are 17 points for the code

0:56:120:56:14

but, for me, the most important points are these.

0:56:140:56:17

"All match-day materials, programmes,

0:56:170:56:19

"tickets and season tickets

0:56:190:56:21

"to highlight the zero tolerance of homophobia

0:56:210:56:23

"and how to report abuse if observed.

0:56:230:56:26

"A pre-match video to be played at every football ground prior to the

0:56:260:56:29

"match, stating the zero tolerance of the homophobia charter.

0:56:290:56:33

"A minimum three-year ban for any fan found guilty

0:56:330:56:37

"of homophobic abuse."

0:56:370:56:38

So I am going to send this to Bill Bush of the Premier League

0:56:380:56:41

and Greg Clarke of the FA. I'm going to send it to the Football League,

0:56:410:56:45

the PFA and all 92 clubs within England and Wales.

0:56:450:56:48

So...

0:56:480:56:49

All I know is, we've tried our hardest, we've tried our best.

0:56:500:56:53

This is what we have come up with.

0:56:530:56:54

Hopefully it will have been worthwhile.

0:56:540:56:57

Gareth "Alfie" Thomas asked many questions

0:56:580:57:01

over the course of his investigation.

0:57:010:57:04

There is one final one he's asking himself.

0:57:040:57:07

If he were a gay footballer today...

0:57:080:57:10

..would he come out?

0:57:120:57:14

I would love to come out

0:57:140:57:17

because I would challenge every dickhead who sits behind a desk

0:57:170:57:19

with a shirt and tie to say, "Right, mate.

0:57:190:57:22

"Right, OK, now will you support me?

0:57:220:57:24

"Here I am. NOW support me.

0:57:240:57:26

"Now show me what you've learned."

0:57:260:57:28

And I would boot the door open to the PFA

0:57:280:57:30

and boot the door open to the Premier League and I would say,

0:57:300:57:32

"I am standing in front of you now, bud.

0:57:320:57:35

"Now what are you going to do about it?"

0:57:350:57:37

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