Browse content similar to Gareth Thomas v Homophobia: Hate in the Beautiful Game. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A normal Saturday in the English Football League, | 0:00:05 | 0:00:09 | |
and Leeds are preparing to welcome Brighton | 0:00:09 | 0:00:11 | |
from Britain's so-called gay capital. | 0:00:11 | 0:00:14 | |
The world's most famous gay sportsman, Gareth "Alfie" Thomas, | 0:00:20 | 0:00:24 | |
is on the way to the ground with Brighton fans. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:27 | |
Well, wherever we go, really, | 0:00:27 | 0:00:28 | |
we tend to get chants of, "Does your boyfriend know you're here?" | 0:00:28 | 0:00:32 | |
Or, "We can see you holding hands." | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
You guys don't react? | 0:00:34 | 0:00:35 | |
-Oh, no. -Well, we do react, I mean, we start singing things to them - | 0:00:35 | 0:00:38 | |
"You're too ugly to be gay." Or when we are beating them | 0:00:38 | 0:00:41 | |
we start singing, "1-0 to the nancy boys." | 0:00:41 | 0:00:43 | |
-Right, so make a joke about it? -Yeah. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:45 | |
It's kind of...you don't really notice it any more. | 0:00:45 | 0:00:48 | |
CHANTING BLEEPING | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
Probably the most surprising of everything | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
is the acceptance of the level | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
of abuse, the normality that abuse has been given. | 0:00:56 | 0:01:01 | |
I find that unacceptable. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:05 | |
If I was a player in this environment, I would be so afraid. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
So afraid, because you give them an inch and they're going to take | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
a mile, because they're just looking for that one crack. | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
They're trying to break each other. | 0:01:18 | 0:01:19 | |
It is a human right that we are allowed to be who we want to be, | 0:01:27 | 0:01:32 | |
yet football, for some reason, feels like, | 0:01:32 | 0:01:36 | |
yeah, you can be who you want to be, but within this game, | 0:01:36 | 0:01:39 | |
if you're not a stereotypical male or female we expect you to be, then, | 0:01:39 | 0:01:42 | |
you know what, we are allowed to abuse you for 90 minutes. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
That, in my book, ain't right. | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
There are 5,000 male professional footballers in the UK. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:54 | |
Not one is openly gay. | 0:01:55 | 0:01:57 | |
Does fear rule, or are there just no gay players? | 0:01:59 | 0:02:03 | |
Do you personally know of any footballers | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
who are hiding their sexuality | 0:02:07 | 0:02:08 | |
within the Football League right now? | 0:02:08 | 0:02:10 | |
Yes, I do. And I know the lies that they are living and I know the fear | 0:02:10 | 0:02:16 | |
that they have. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:17 | |
It's lovely! Robbie Rogers! | 0:02:17 | 0:02:19 | |
One player reveals the homophobia that stopped him coming out | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
when he was playing in the UK. | 0:02:22 | 0:02:24 | |
I heard it from, you know, coaches, from fans, from players, | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
but definitely it was within the changing room | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
that affected me the most. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:32 | |
And politicians have started asking why football seems to be | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
the last refuge of extreme homophobia. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
What is it about football that makes it lag | 0:02:41 | 0:02:46 | |
so far behind civilised society? | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
So, 50 years after the legalisation of homosexuality, | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
Alfie asks, is football finally ready to kick its homophobic habit? | 0:02:57 | 0:03:01 | |
I think everybody has something to say about the issue, | 0:03:02 | 0:03:06 | |
but nobody does anything about the issue, | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
and I'd like to find out why that is. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:12 | |
# You're queer and you know you are | 0:03:12 | 0:03:15 | |
# You're queer and you know you are | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
# You're queer and you know you are. # | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
CHANTING ECHOES AND FADES | 0:03:20 | 0:03:22 | |
This is the cliffs I would come to once a week, | 0:03:34 | 0:03:37 | |
for maybe a three-month period. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:39 | |
And I'd always go through this process of standing at the top | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
of the cliff, taking off my shoes, putting my shoes tidy, | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
putting my socks in my shoes, folding my clothes. | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
So, every day I'd come, I'd go like a step closer to the edge and then | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
a step closer to the edge, going closer and closer and closer. | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
It's a strange, strange thing of wanting to die, | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
but I didn't want to die - I just didn't want to open my eyes again. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:04 | |
Cos the world that I saw in front of me was something that I was | 0:04:05 | 0:04:09 | |
really, really scared of. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:10 | |
Ten years ago, Gareth Thomas was a sporting icon. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
Captain of Wales with 100 caps. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:20 | |
Hard man. Enforcer. | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
But the adulation of millions could not help him deal with a secret. | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
I wasn't the person that I was portraying myself to be, | 0:04:31 | 0:04:34 | |
and it makes you feel ugly, it makes you feel shameful, | 0:04:34 | 0:04:38 | |
and it really does, it makes you feel like you want to die. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
I was afraid of being judged | 0:04:42 | 0:04:44 | |
for something as normal, as I see it now, as my sexuality. | 0:04:44 | 0:04:48 | |
The fear of people looking at me differently or talking about me. | 0:04:49 | 0:04:53 | |
Everything that I had worked my whole life for being taken away, | 0:04:54 | 0:04:57 | |
and left with nothing to live for. | 0:04:57 | 0:05:00 | |
But I still want to be able to hear my mother talk. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:03 | |
I still want to be able to hear my father laugh. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
And it's like THEY are the people that would be affected by this. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
That, I think, was the one thing that was stopping me | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
from jumping off the edge. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
So, the last time I came here, I solemnly said to myself, | 0:05:15 | 0:05:22 | |
"I'm never coming back, because I'm choosing to live, | 0:05:22 | 0:05:24 | |
"I'm not choosing to die." | 0:05:24 | 0:05:25 | |
Having first admitted his true sexuality | 0:05:28 | 0:05:31 | |
to his family and team-mates, | 0:05:31 | 0:05:33 | |
Alfie then came out to the world on the pages of the Daily Mail - | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
the paper his father read. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
Years of torment for me | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
took my team-mates, took my friends, | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
took my family probably 30 seconds of contemplation | 0:05:45 | 0:05:48 | |
to be able to deliver the words like, "It doesn't matter," | 0:05:48 | 0:05:52 | |
and to me, all of a sudden, life was completely different. | 0:05:52 | 0:05:55 | |
Honesty was something that gave me a sense of freedom to be able to walk | 0:05:55 | 0:05:59 | |
down the street a little bit prouder, a little bit happier, | 0:05:59 | 0:06:03 | |
look people in the eye, and be proud of who I am, where I've come from, | 0:06:03 | 0:06:09 | |
um, and what I represent. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:10 | |
It's ten years since Alfie came out, | 0:06:12 | 0:06:15 | |
and he's now a celebrated gay icon the world over. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:19 | |
Fashanu. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:21 | |
Oh, oh, what a goal! | 0:06:21 | 0:06:22 | |
Oh, that's a magnificent goal! | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
The only top-flight male footballer to come out whilst playing in the UK | 0:06:25 | 0:06:29 | |
was Justin Fashanu. | 0:06:29 | 0:06:31 | |
His story is very different to that of Alfie Thomas. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
When he came out in 1990, | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
he was subject to vile abuse on the terraces, in the press, | 0:06:38 | 0:06:42 | |
and on the streets. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
In 1998, having been accused of sexual assault, | 0:06:46 | 0:06:50 | |
Fashanu hanged himself. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
So, I'm on my way now to see Amal Fashanu, | 0:06:58 | 0:07:00 | |
who is the niece of Justin Fashanu. | 0:07:00 | 0:07:02 | |
And I just want to chat to her, cos I want to know her experiences, | 0:07:02 | 0:07:05 | |
cos she's done a similar project to this. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
-Hello, my lovely. -Hi, how are you? | 0:07:11 | 0:07:13 | |
Five years ago, Amal Fashanu made her own documentary | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
about the world of football and the homophobia her uncle suffered. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:20 | |
You know when you went to the governing bodies about Justin, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:24 | |
did they take any kind of, any blame, or give you kind of, | 0:07:24 | 0:07:28 | |
I suppose, any empathy towards what happened with him? | 0:07:28 | 0:07:33 | |
I think definitely empathy, | 0:07:33 | 0:07:34 | |
because that's a very diplomatic and very good way of describing, | 0:07:34 | 0:07:39 | |
you know. I think because Justin passed away, | 0:07:39 | 0:07:42 | |
there is a certain sense of, | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
kind of diplomacy, in a way. | 0:07:45 | 0:07:46 | |
You're not going to obviously offend to that extreme. | 0:07:46 | 0:07:49 | |
I'm quite hard-core when it comes to that, | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
cos I was really wanting to defend Justin, | 0:07:51 | 0:07:53 | |
because what I did realise was that football in general, | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
it's a very particular sport, you know. | 0:07:57 | 0:08:00 | |
It's not like rugby, it's not like cricket. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
Within football, I feel like there is a special type of community. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
I don't know whether you can call it | 0:08:06 | 0:08:08 | |
a macho kind of society environment, which is very closed, you know? | 0:08:08 | 0:08:13 | |
I think that there is a lot of money involved in it | 0:08:13 | 0:08:17 | |
and it is very hard to actually get the truth | 0:08:17 | 0:08:20 | |
and actually understand what's going on. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:23 | |
I mean, for me, what was most shocking about my documentary | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
was the fact that, you know, the FA could say | 0:08:25 | 0:08:28 | |
that the reason why there is nothing | 0:08:28 | 0:08:30 | |
really in place for a gay footballer | 0:08:30 | 0:08:32 | |
would be because there are no gay footballers. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:34 | |
You know...! | 0:08:34 | 0:08:36 | |
-Yeah... -I have friends who are gay footballers. | 0:08:36 | 0:08:39 | |
I would never say their name, I would never say anything, | 0:08:39 | 0:08:42 | |
but what can they do? | 0:08:42 | 0:08:44 | |
Yeah. Do you think that now, | 0:08:44 | 0:08:47 | |
potentially, it could be an environment that is ready | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
for a player to come out? | 0:08:51 | 0:08:52 | |
I would love, love, love to say yes. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:54 | |
But really, you know, within football, | 0:08:56 | 0:08:59 | |
have attitudes really changed, | 0:08:59 | 0:09:02 | |
you know? Are the people, you know, at the boards level kind of thing, | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
are they really changing their attitude? | 0:09:06 | 0:09:08 | |
Will it ever change? | 0:09:08 | 0:09:10 | |
Maybe when I have children, you know, at that point, I think yes. | 0:09:10 | 0:09:14 | |
Within rugby, I think even cricket, they're sports which, | 0:09:14 | 0:09:17 | |
it is bad for me to say, but they're more elegant, | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
they seem like the fans are more intelligent. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:22 | |
With football, I really don't see anything changing | 0:09:22 | 0:09:26 | |
for the next five years. I just feel like | 0:09:26 | 0:09:28 | |
until a big footballer currently playing decides to be brave, | 0:09:28 | 0:09:33 | |
to say and be who they are, I think we're going to be waiting. | 0:09:33 | 0:09:37 | |
You think that will be the flip, | 0:09:37 | 0:09:39 | |
-when a footballer comes out? -Definitely. | 0:09:39 | 0:09:41 | |
Fashanu came in! | 0:09:41 | 0:09:44 | |
It's almost 20 years since Justin Fashanu died, | 0:09:44 | 0:09:48 | |
but abuse on the terraces is still rife. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
And now there is a whole new world of abuse online. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:53 | |
A personal message to Pogba, who is a Manchester United footballer. | 0:09:56 | 0:10:00 | |
"Pogba, a faggot." | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
And then they've got, "Fellaini, burn this faggot." | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
Just streams of it. | 0:10:05 | 0:10:07 | |
-"All Arsenal fans are -BLEEP -faggots, ass bitches, and suck -BLEEP... | 0:10:07 | 0:10:13 | |
All these people who are writing this, being gay is the lowest form | 0:10:13 | 0:10:19 | |
of...life on this Earth. | 0:10:19 | 0:10:22 | |
But nobody's stopping it. | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
Like, say you replace any of these words with a racist comment, | 0:10:25 | 0:10:28 | |
people would comment on it | 0:10:28 | 0:10:30 | |
and people would be negative towards them. | 0:10:30 | 0:10:32 | |
God, "Messi is a faggot." | 0:10:32 | 0:10:33 | |
-"Suck a -BLEEP, -faggot. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:35 | |
"No-one gives a shit about what you think. | 0:10:35 | 0:10:38 | |
"Get off the crack, you faggot abortion survivor, | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
"14-year-old runt rent boy." | 0:10:41 | 0:10:44 | |
It's mad, that, like, you read these and you think, | 0:10:44 | 0:10:47 | |
if there was a guy hiding his sexuality | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
and wanting to potentially come out, | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
but afraid of what he's going to go into, | 0:10:55 | 0:10:57 | |
there are people with these views in the stands, week in, week out. | 0:10:57 | 0:11:03 | |
If they think like that and act like that, | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
what kind of environment within a football ground | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
is that going to create? | 0:11:09 | 0:11:10 | |
Earlier this year, | 0:11:15 | 0:11:16 | |
a House of Commons committee reported on homophobia in sport. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:21 | |
It discovered that in 2017, | 0:11:24 | 0:11:28 | |
we have more openly gay sports professionals than ever before. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:32 | |
Tom Daley in diving. | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
Hockey stars Kate and Helen Richardson-Walsh - | 0:11:37 | 0:11:40 | |
the first same-sex married couple to win Olympic golds. | 0:11:40 | 0:11:43 | |
And rugby ref Nigel Owens. | 0:11:43 | 0:11:46 | |
Stay, stay. | 0:11:46 | 0:11:47 | |
What's your view of the underlying culture and attitudes within rugby, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
and do you have any causes for concern? | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
If somebody was to ask me, is rugby a homophobic sport, | 0:11:55 | 0:11:58 | |
then my answer would be no, | 0:11:58 | 0:12:00 | |
because I couldn't be who I am today and referee at the level I am today | 0:12:00 | 0:12:05 | |
if rugby was that case. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:06 | |
After spending several months questioning people in sport, | 0:12:07 | 0:12:11 | |
the MPs welcomed the steps taken by the industry to address LGBT issues. | 0:12:11 | 0:12:17 | |
However, the report was universally scathing | 0:12:19 | 0:12:23 | |
about homophobia in football. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:25 | |
What is it about football that makes it lag so far behind | 0:12:25 | 0:12:31 | |
civilised society? | 0:12:31 | 0:12:33 | |
The two leading football bodies - | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
the Premier League and the Football Association - | 0:12:36 | 0:12:38 | |
were asked to give evidence, and it was Greg Clarke, | 0:12:38 | 0:12:41 | |
the chairman of the FA, who caused the biggest stir. | 0:12:41 | 0:12:44 | |
What do you think would happen to a gay player who came out today? | 0:12:46 | 0:12:50 | |
I think there would be significant abuse. | 0:12:50 | 0:12:53 | |
-Do you? -I do. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:55 | |
If I was a gay man, why would I expose myself to that? | 0:12:55 | 0:13:00 | |
Alfie's arranged to meet MP Damian Collins... | 0:13:03 | 0:13:06 | |
-Hello, Damian. -..chair of the parliamentary committee. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:09 | |
There is a problem with homophobia in football. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
There is a problem with the way fans behave in stadia. | 0:13:12 | 0:13:14 | |
There is clearly a problem, I think, within the culture of the sport, | 0:13:14 | 0:13:17 | |
that no footballer feels comfortable about coming out. | 0:13:17 | 0:13:19 | |
It's not only that there are no current players playing throughout. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
There are no gay young players in academies. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:26 | |
-You know, there are no... -Managers, coaches. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:28 | |
..coaches, nothing, you know, so it is all through the game. | 0:13:28 | 0:13:32 | |
Do you also feel then that because there are no openly gay players, | 0:13:32 | 0:13:35 | |
they almost feel that there is no problem and we have nothing to do, | 0:13:35 | 0:13:38 | |
because we have no gay players | 0:13:38 | 0:13:40 | |
which, to me, is a raging sign of warning, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
because there are no gay players. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:44 | |
I think the FA know | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
that there must be gay footballers. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:50 | |
There must be a considerable number of gay footballers. | 0:13:50 | 0:13:52 | |
And I think what the FA want to see | 0:13:52 | 0:13:54 | |
is a change within their sport | 0:13:54 | 0:13:56 | |
so that those footballers feel comfortable being out. | 0:13:56 | 0:13:59 | |
What I don't think the FA know is how to achieve that. | 0:13:59 | 0:14:03 | |
And I think, as well, it is, whilst we can look at the abuse | 0:14:03 | 0:14:06 | |
within the stadia and say that's something, you know, we can hear it, | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
we can see it, we know who is doing it. | 0:14:09 | 0:14:11 | |
And say, "There are some idiots doing that, | 0:14:11 | 0:14:13 | |
"let's stop them doing it," | 0:14:13 | 0:14:14 | |
but is that all that's holding people back, | 0:14:14 | 0:14:17 | |
or is it actually something cultural within the sport itself, you know, | 0:14:17 | 0:14:20 | |
within that team environment within the clubs, | 0:14:20 | 0:14:22 | |
and actually the clubs and the football authorities | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
are not doing enough to really look inside the sport | 0:14:24 | 0:14:27 | |
and look at how... the way the sport is run | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
may be putting some players off coming out? | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
My gut feeling is that actually they are glad that there is nobody out, | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
because they will not know how to deal with it. | 0:14:37 | 0:14:40 | |
A player could pick up a phone and make a phone call tomorrow, | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
and decide that he has to come out because, you know what, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
he can't live his life as a liar. | 0:14:45 | 0:14:46 | |
My fear is, you know, | 0:14:46 | 0:14:48 | |
what the hell has any of the governing bodies | 0:14:48 | 0:14:52 | |
got in their armoury to protect them or to support them? | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
So, what are Greg Clarke and the FA doing about it? | 0:14:58 | 0:15:02 | |
I'm just cautious of encouraging people to come out | 0:15:02 | 0:15:05 | |
until we've done our part of the bargain | 0:15:05 | 0:15:07 | |
and stamped out that abuse so they can enjoy the football. | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
RINGING TONE | 0:15:11 | 0:15:12 | |
After a number of unanswered phone messages and one e-mail, | 0:15:14 | 0:15:18 | |
Alfie's still trying to find out. | 0:15:18 | 0:15:20 | |
We tried to contact you and you did respond to one of our e-mails, | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
but since then we have had no contact with you, | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
so I hope to chat to you hopefully next week. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
If not, we will call you back, | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
but thank you for your time. | 0:15:33 | 0:15:34 | |
Take care, buddy, bye. | 0:15:34 | 0:15:36 | |
The thing is, I understand that they are running big organisations, | 0:15:36 | 0:15:39 | |
but also the responsibility that comes with running a big | 0:15:39 | 0:15:43 | |
organisation is staying in touch with not only the grassroots, | 0:15:43 | 0:15:49 | |
but also people who want to kind of make a difference and make a change, | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
so it is extremely difficult, but, you know, | 0:15:53 | 0:15:58 | |
I didn't get to where I did in my rugby career by giving up, | 0:15:58 | 0:16:02 | |
by falling at the first hurdle. | 0:16:02 | 0:16:03 | |
18 months ago, | 0:16:09 | 0:16:11 | |
the British tabloid claimed two players were poised to come out. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
But no-one did and the story disappeared. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:17 | |
Alfie's agent is Emanuele Palladino. | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
He also represents several footballers. | 0:16:26 | 0:16:28 | |
So, without naming any names, | 0:16:30 | 0:16:32 | |
do you personally know of any footballers | 0:16:32 | 0:16:34 | |
who are hiding their sexuality | 0:16:34 | 0:16:36 | |
within the Football League right now? | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
-Yes, I do. -Yeah? | 0:16:38 | 0:16:40 | |
And I think it is really difficult. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:41 | |
And I know the lies that they are living, | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
and I know the fear that they have, and I know they are not happy. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:51 | |
And yet they feel they have got no option. | 0:16:51 | 0:16:53 | |
And I think that is really, | 0:16:53 | 0:16:55 | |
really sad in today's world, that you have to live a lie like that. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
How do you feel agents and representatives | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
of football...footballers, | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
what do you feel their view is towards footballers coming out? | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
I think the default reaction is don't come out, | 0:17:08 | 0:17:11 | |
that football's not ready for you, which I think is a shame. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:15 | |
I think it is very difficult to come out. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:17 | |
You know, they said that a footballer | 0:17:17 | 0:17:19 | |
was going to be coming out, and as a result of that article, | 0:17:19 | 0:17:22 | |
loads of footballers were being tweeted saying, | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
"Tell me you are not gay, tell me it is not you." | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
Now, if you are that gay footballer, | 0:17:27 | 0:17:28 | |
you're going to be looking at every single thing online and you're going | 0:17:28 | 0:17:31 | |
to be reading those homophobic tweets and going, "Actually, do you know what? I can't do this." | 0:17:31 | 0:17:35 | |
So, if you had the power to do something within football right now | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
to create a better environment for an LGBT player to come out, | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
what is the one thing you would do to change football now? | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
The million-dollar question! | 0:17:44 | 0:17:46 | |
It's two things. One is, | 0:17:47 | 0:17:49 | |
can the governing body be more vocal in trying to stamp out homophobia? | 0:17:49 | 0:17:56 | |
And two is, can a footballer come out? | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
Because if a footballer CAN come out, | 0:17:59 | 0:18:00 | |
he can help that campaign by being him. | 0:18:00 | 0:18:03 | |
And it comes back to you. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:04 | |
When you came out, I always said Gareth Thomas is new territory. | 0:18:04 | 0:18:07 | |
Gareth Thomas is blazing a new trail that no-one has done, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
and you changed people's minds and perceptions by being you. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
But that is not easy. And, you know, there is no magic wand, | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
but that would be it - governing bodies to improve more, | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
and a footballer to find the courage. | 0:18:21 | 0:18:23 | |
But, you know, that may never happen. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:26 | |
Oh, it's lovely! Robbie Rogers! | 0:18:28 | 0:18:30 | |
Oh, yes! | 0:18:30 | 0:18:32 | |
On the entire planet, | 0:18:32 | 0:18:34 | |
there is currently just one openly gay male footballer | 0:18:34 | 0:18:37 | |
playing at the top level. | 0:18:37 | 0:18:39 | |
And Alfie has travelled halfway around the world to Los Angeles | 0:18:41 | 0:18:45 | |
to meet him. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:47 | |
-What's going on? -Hello, bud, how are you doing, all right? -Good. | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
Come on in, guys. | 0:18:51 | 0:18:53 | |
-Nice humble house! -HE CHUCKLES | 0:18:53 | 0:18:56 | |
LA Galaxy star Robbie Rogers is not only a US international, | 0:18:56 | 0:19:00 | |
he also has experience of playing in the UK. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:03 | |
Before coming out in 2013, | 0:19:04 | 0:19:07 | |
he fulfilled a childhood dream of playing in England, | 0:19:07 | 0:19:10 | |
signing for Leeds United. | 0:19:10 | 0:19:12 | |
He was soon taken aback by the levels of abuse in the British game. | 0:19:14 | 0:19:18 | |
A few people start shouting something that other people feel | 0:19:18 | 0:19:21 | |
it's OK to be, like, shouting something, and it's like | 0:19:21 | 0:19:23 | |
this pack mentality where they all start going. And there's | 0:19:23 | 0:19:26 | |
the adrenaline and the aggression, which is so weird to watch sometimes. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:29 | |
I remember being in England and watching young kids feeding off the | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
aggression of their parents, | 0:19:32 | 0:19:33 | |
which is actually really sad and disgusting to me. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:36 | |
They don't realise how that's affecting someone's life, | 0:19:38 | 0:19:42 | |
over their whole life and their emotional state and their happiness. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:46 | |
You know, they think that they are | 0:19:46 | 0:19:47 | |
hopefully just affecting a game for 90 minutes. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
Coping with crowds was tough. | 0:19:51 | 0:19:54 | |
Coping with people on his own side was tougher. | 0:19:54 | 0:19:58 | |
I mean, I remember a coach saying, like, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:00 | |
"Don't pass the ball like a faggot." | 0:20:00 | 0:20:02 | |
That was just so ridiculous that he would be dumb enough to say | 0:20:02 | 0:20:04 | |
-something like this. -Yeah. -There was discussion is that I heard, | 0:20:04 | 0:20:07 | |
where guys would be next to me on a bike, riding a bike after a game, | 0:20:07 | 0:20:10 | |
just doing a cool down, and they would be, like, | 0:20:10 | 0:20:14 | |
"How disgusting is it that..." "You know, how disgusting, how can a man | 0:20:14 | 0:20:17 | |
"even go through the act of loving another man?" | 0:20:17 | 0:20:19 | |
Like, how disgusting that would be. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:20 | |
And they would be talking about that and I would be there on my bike, like, "Shit. I'm never coming out." | 0:20:20 | 0:20:25 | |
I would get almost like a cramp, like it was almost hard for me | 0:20:25 | 0:20:28 | |
to breathe when someone said something like that | 0:20:28 | 0:20:30 | |
in the locker room because I was so afraid of being, | 0:20:30 | 0:20:32 | |
like, ostracised from the group of guys. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:34 | |
So someone would say something and I'd go out to do a training session, | 0:20:34 | 0:20:37 | |
and I'd just moved to England and I was trying to compete | 0:20:37 | 0:20:40 | |
with these guys who were great footballers and I was, like, | 0:20:40 | 0:20:43 | |
still dealing with that pain in my body from someone saying words. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:46 | |
You don't realise that someone with their words can be so damaging | 0:20:46 | 0:20:50 | |
to your confidence and your soul. | 0:20:50 | 0:20:52 | |
Despairing, and no longer prepared to live a lie, | 0:20:53 | 0:20:57 | |
Robbie quit Britain and turned his back on football. | 0:20:57 | 0:21:00 | |
He returned to the US and came out to his family and friends. | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
Being honest to myself, | 0:21:06 | 0:21:07 | |
being honest to my family especially was important. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:09 | |
You know, eventually coming out in a more public way | 0:21:09 | 0:21:13 | |
because I still felt like I was still closeted. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Even though at first I was like, "I don't owe anyone anything," | 0:21:15 | 0:21:19 | |
but I still felt a little bit... | 0:21:19 | 0:21:20 | |
I didn't expect that feeling. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:22 | |
I thought, after I came out to my family and friends, | 0:21:22 | 0:21:25 | |
that I would be kind of free from that, but... | 0:21:25 | 0:21:28 | |
I didn't expect to feel like I still needed to just, like, | 0:21:28 | 0:21:32 | |
write something and post it or wherever. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
-Yeah. -Which then... | 0:21:35 | 0:21:36 | |
After I did that, I was like, I felt, like, so free. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:39 | |
Finally out publicly, | 0:21:40 | 0:21:42 | |
a relieved and liberated Robbie resumed his football career | 0:21:42 | 0:21:46 | |
-with LA Galaxy. -Another run there! | 0:21:46 | 0:21:48 | |
And there's the tie goal! It was Robbie Rogers coming through. 1-1. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:53 | |
One unexpected plus was that, as the only gay top-flight footballer, | 0:21:53 | 0:21:58 | |
he was suddenly a magnet to sponsors. | 0:21:58 | 0:22:02 | |
The honesty is something any brand wants to be connected to. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
Yes, I think the younger generation now especially loves connecting | 0:22:06 | 0:22:11 | |
to...honesty, people that are different, that are creative, | 0:22:11 | 0:22:15 | |
that are willing to, you know, stand out. | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
I think brands are smart and they are starting to, you know, | 0:22:17 | 0:22:20 | |
latch onto that. So I don't think any athletes, | 0:22:20 | 0:22:24 | |
male or female, in any sport, | 0:22:24 | 0:22:26 | |
I don't think they have to fear that, because I think really | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
there's a lot of brands out there that want to work with athletes, | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
-and especially ones that stand out in a positive way. -Yeah. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:35 | |
That's America, but in Britain things are very different. | 0:22:37 | 0:22:41 | |
Alfie heads to the headquarters of the players union, the PFA. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
Gordon Taylor is the Chief Executive, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:53 | |
and Simone Pound, the head of equalities. | 0:22:53 | 0:22:56 | |
As a body that is there to protect the players, | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
do you feel that if a professional footballer came out within England | 0:22:59 | 0:23:03 | |
and Wales, that the PFA would have a procedure and a policy there | 0:23:03 | 0:23:07 | |
to protect him? | 0:23:07 | 0:23:09 | |
Well, I hope so, and | 0:23:09 | 0:23:12 | |
football being a team game, it is about offering support | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
in whatever area. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
We talked about other areas that we deal with, with depression, and... | 0:23:18 | 0:23:24 | |
..issues with regard to anti-racism, anti-Semitism, | 0:23:26 | 0:23:31 | |
and we look after the women in the game. | 0:23:31 | 0:23:34 | |
Quite a number of our older players with suffering, need new hips, | 0:23:34 | 0:23:38 | |
or arthritis, so to get back straightaway, | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
where it is something that we are very much aware of | 0:23:42 | 0:23:45 | |
and the players who have come out are normally players | 0:23:45 | 0:23:48 | |
who have come out once they've retired from the game. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:50 | |
I think Robbie Rogers is still playing. | 0:23:50 | 0:23:52 | |
-Yeah, he is. -I think... how he felt so much better, | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
so obviously when you look, | 0:23:56 | 0:23:58 | |
we are to some extent looking at the anniversary of 50 years ago and | 0:23:58 | 0:24:03 | |
legislation, and when you think some of the actual heroes of this country, | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
Second World War, you know, | 0:24:07 | 0:24:10 | |
different individuals who were gay, and yet, | 0:24:10 | 0:24:14 | |
you know, were vilified, and you think, "What is that about?" | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
You know, "How could they have to cope with that?" | 0:24:17 | 0:24:19 | |
And so you do feel that sympathy. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:21 | |
It is a good question, | 0:24:23 | 0:24:24 | |
but in answering it I would love the environment to be comfortable enough | 0:24:24 | 0:24:29 | |
so that that would happen. | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
Do you feel you can create that? | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
Only because I just feel personally, | 0:24:33 | 0:24:35 | |
from my own story, when I came out... | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
..as being gay and carried on playing, | 0:24:39 | 0:24:41 | |
there was nothing in place, and that was what really, really scared me. | 0:24:41 | 0:24:45 | |
And for me, I just think if there is something open, a policy open. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:49 | |
You were a pathfinder, and that's what I said, we have looked at how | 0:24:49 | 0:24:54 | |
to judge what happened with regard to yourself, | 0:24:54 | 0:24:57 | |
and in cricket and in other sports, | 0:24:57 | 0:25:00 | |
and tried to take out what has worked. | 0:25:00 | 0:25:02 | |
But, again, what kind of interests me is you are saying | 0:25:02 | 0:25:05 | |
you are learning lessons from other people. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:08 | |
I'm still not really understanding, to be honest, what did you learn? | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
Just, really, what we learnt from your story, Gareth, | 0:25:11 | 0:25:15 | |
and what you were saying about where we have come from as a game. | 0:25:15 | 0:25:18 | |
And obviously we have worked on this area for a number of years now, | 0:25:19 | 0:25:23 | |
I have been in post for nearly 17 years now, | 0:25:23 | 0:25:27 | |
and can see I think we have actually made huge strides as a game, | 0:25:27 | 0:25:31 | |
with regards to LGBT inclusion and homophobia in particular. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:35 | |
Obviously as the players' union, | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
it is something that we've really pushed for, in terms of a protocol, | 0:25:38 | 0:25:43 | |
in terms of procedures in and around the game, and obviously your story. | 0:25:43 | 0:25:49 | |
And just really... | 0:25:49 | 0:25:50 | |
..like you did, spoke to the coach, | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
made sure that your team-mates were supportive, and the... | 0:25:54 | 0:25:58 | |
..rugby associations came out and kind of supported and endorsed their | 0:26:00 | 0:26:04 | |
belief in you as a person, and I think that is really, | 0:26:04 | 0:26:07 | |
you know, best practice, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
all that anyone would do, and what we will do as a game. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:17 | |
I am literally dumbfounded, like, I am literally dumbfounded, | 0:26:19 | 0:26:22 | |
because personally if I had been doing a job for 17 years | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
on controlling the diversity and welfare of players, | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
then I am sure as hell, if I was asked a question... | 0:26:28 | 0:26:32 | |
which is such a current topic at the moment, | 0:26:32 | 0:26:35 | |
about a potential footballer coming out to be gay, | 0:26:35 | 0:26:37 | |
I would be on it. I would have every point, | 0:26:37 | 0:26:40 | |
I would answer every question, | 0:26:40 | 0:26:42 | |
because I would have been prepared for it. | 0:26:42 | 0:26:44 | |
And there is a good old saying in sport, | 0:26:46 | 0:26:49 | |
is failure to prepare is preparing to fail. | 0:26:49 | 0:26:52 | |
And this, to me, is an absolute failure. | 0:26:53 | 0:26:55 | |
Alfie tries again to speak to Greg Clarke, chairman of the FA. | 0:26:57 | 0:27:02 | |
I am personally ashamed that they don't feel safe to come out. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:06 | |
Answering machine. | 0:27:08 | 0:27:09 | |
I tell you what, I wouldn't want | 0:27:13 | 0:27:15 | |
to be like a multi-million pound business | 0:27:15 | 0:27:18 | |
trying to get hold of them to do some sponsorship deal or something, | 0:27:18 | 0:27:21 | |
because...very difficult to get hold of, or maybe it's just me! | 0:27:21 | 0:27:24 | |
Everything I went through out there... | 0:27:27 | 0:27:29 | |
..was nothing compared to the demons inside. | 0:27:31 | 0:27:34 | |
Alfie starred in a high-profile ad campaign about his coming out. | 0:27:34 | 0:27:38 | |
I turned to my team-mates. | 0:27:38 | 0:27:39 | |
Telling them I was gay was the toughest thing I've ever done. | 0:27:41 | 0:27:45 | |
But when I needed them the most, | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
they were there for me. | 0:27:49 | 0:27:50 | |
For me, it was such an honour to have my story associated with it, | 0:27:57 | 0:28:02 | |
but I suppose as a brand, as a company, | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
did you feel it might kind of weaken your stance in any way? | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
No, we didn't. And I'll tell you why, | 0:28:08 | 0:28:10 | |
because we look for stories that are about strength of character | 0:28:10 | 0:28:13 | |
and about bonds of friendship | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
that ultimately have a kind of positive effect on the world. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:21 | |
-Right. -That's what we found so inspiring about YOUR story. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
Did you feel, as a company, it was a positive? | 0:28:24 | 0:28:27 | |
Absolutely. Your film scored better, like, | 0:28:27 | 0:28:30 | |
significantly better than our average Guinness performance, | 0:28:30 | 0:28:34 | |
and so that is comparing to some pretty successful, | 0:28:34 | 0:28:36 | |
very famous Guinness advertising. | 0:28:36 | 0:28:37 | |
-Right. -And this scored higher than it. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
And I think it's because people were attracted to your human story. | 0:28:39 | 0:28:43 | |
Obviously what I'm doing at the moment is, I'm kind of in this world | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
of football, which is a very new world to me, | 0:28:47 | 0:28:51 | |
and is probably more focused on sponsorship, | 0:28:51 | 0:28:56 | |
on advertising than any other sport. | 0:28:56 | 0:28:58 | |
And I think there is a lot of fear for people wanting to be themselves | 0:28:58 | 0:29:01 | |
within sport, because advertising... | 0:29:01 | 0:29:04 | |
..is such a big part of it and they don't want to lose their attachment | 0:29:05 | 0:29:09 | |
to their brands. Now, if a footballer was to come out | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
within that game, | 0:29:12 | 0:29:13 | |
do you feel like they would be more of an attractive proposition? | 0:29:13 | 0:29:17 | |
I think there would be brands that would be knocking down the door | 0:29:17 | 0:29:20 | |
to want to work with the first person that did that, | 0:29:20 | 0:29:23 | |
because, the same reasons that we wanted to work with you, | 0:29:23 | 0:29:27 | |
because you were the first, you were a role model. | 0:29:27 | 0:29:30 | |
-Yeah. -And it made for an unbelievable personal story | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
as a result of doing that, because of the burden of being first | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
-as well. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:39 | |
Last year, a survey found that 72% of fans had heard homophobic abuse | 0:29:44 | 0:29:50 | |
on the terraces. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:51 | |
All of the football authorities | 0:29:53 | 0:29:56 | |
have financed campaign group Kick It Out to create a free app | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
for reporting abuse. | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
Yet across the whole of last season, the app was used just 19 times. | 0:30:03 | 0:30:08 | |
Kick It Out's chief executive officer is Roisin Wood. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:16 | |
Now, I can look after myself, but I was at a football match | 0:30:16 | 0:30:19 | |
and I thought, do you know what, | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
there's homophobic abuse going on here and I would find that extremely | 0:30:21 | 0:30:26 | |
difficult and extremely intimidating to do anything about it. | 0:30:26 | 0:30:31 | |
It's like, you know, it just seemed like a really scary environment. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:35 | |
It is very, very intimidating to go, | 0:30:35 | 0:30:36 | |
"Hi, there is a big guy over there, and he's shouting homophobic abuse. | 0:30:36 | 0:30:40 | |
-"Can you do something about it?" -Or if there's 100 little guys, | 0:30:40 | 0:30:43 | |
-it's scary. -Exactly. Of course it is. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:45 | |
You would be naive not to recognise that. | 0:30:45 | 0:30:48 | |
So, do you feel the campaigns that you've set up, | 0:30:48 | 0:30:52 | |
do you feel that's creating a better environment, at this moment, | 0:30:52 | 0:30:56 | |
for football grounds? | 0:30:56 | 0:30:58 | |
To me, could we do more? | 0:30:58 | 0:31:00 | |
Yes, of course we can do more. | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
We could do more, the football bodies can do more, | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
the clubs can do more. | 0:31:05 | 0:31:06 | |
So, why isn't it happening? | 0:31:06 | 0:31:08 | |
-That's the thing, though. -I think it's happening. | 0:31:08 | 0:31:11 | |
It's like everything, there's 92 clubs. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:12 | |
I think some clubs are brilliant at it. | 0:31:12 | 0:31:14 | |
-Yeah, OK. -I think some clubs are not that good at it and there's ones in | 0:31:14 | 0:31:18 | |
the middle that are OK at it. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:20 | |
Sometimes clubs, I think, are a bit afraid about doing the wrong thing. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
So rather than do the wrong thing, they'll do nothing. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
To me, the only way this will ever, | 0:31:28 | 0:31:31 | |
ever be treated is to have a whole-game approach because one, | 0:31:31 | 0:31:34 | |
people can't do on their own. Certainly Kick It Out can't do it | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
-on its own. -OK. -We're the campaigning body but it needs the buy-in from the clubs. | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
It needs the buy-in from everybody. | 0:31:41 | 0:31:43 | |
And they need all...not to tick the box, and that's what makes me crazy. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:49 | |
They need to take it seriously. | 0:31:49 | 0:31:50 | |
And I think that's the problem. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:54 | |
INDISTINCT SINGING | 0:31:54 | 0:31:56 | |
Keen to see how individual clubs control homophobia, | 0:32:03 | 0:32:07 | |
Alfie has been invited to Cardiff City for an end-of-season clash with | 0:32:07 | 0:32:11 | |
Newcastle United. | 0:32:11 | 0:32:12 | |
Toon! Toon! | 0:32:14 | 0:32:17 | |
City have their own alternative to the Kick It Out app - | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
a live reporting system advertised throughout the stadium. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:26 | |
Anybody, anywhere in the ground can see the signs. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
They can send a text, they can make a call. | 0:32:30 | 0:32:32 | |
The call is then - or text - is answered in the control room. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:35 | |
If they want to keep it anonymous, they can. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:37 | |
We can then act on the information we get, | 0:32:37 | 0:32:39 | |
look at the system. So we've got access to the ticketing system, | 0:32:39 | 0:32:41 | |
see which area of the ground they are in, | 0:32:41 | 0:32:43 | |
and take appropriate action from there. | 0:32:43 | 0:32:45 | |
And it is hot, so we get it there and then and we can try to act on it | 0:32:45 | 0:32:48 | |
during the game, if something is happening. | 0:32:48 | 0:32:50 | |
Is this, do you feel, more of a relevance than the Kick It Out app? | 0:32:50 | 0:32:54 | |
We've got the option to act on the information we get on match day, | 0:32:54 | 0:32:58 | |
whereas most of the time with something reported | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
via the Kick It Out app, | 0:33:00 | 0:33:02 | |
you get afterwards and then you've got to try and identify where the | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
people were sat, who the people they were complaining against are. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:08 | |
We've got more of an opportunity to try and stop things happening | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
-further down the line, and there and then. -Yeah. | 0:33:11 | 0:33:14 | |
Match-day security is down to stadium manager Wayne Nash. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:23 | |
-How are you doing. -How are you? | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
-Yeah, good, man. -Good stuff. Busy here, boss? | 0:33:26 | 0:33:28 | |
Wayne coordinates the police and stewards | 0:33:30 | 0:33:33 | |
from the event control room. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:34 | |
So this is a multi-agency control room. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:37 | |
Multiple CCTV cameras monitor all points, | 0:33:37 | 0:33:40 | |
both inside and outside the ground. | 0:33:40 | 0:33:43 | |
If you look up and see a camera, it will make you feel a bit safer. | 0:33:43 | 0:33:47 | |
Especially when there is an incident, | 0:33:47 | 0:33:49 | |
you look how tight we can zoom in. | 0:33:49 | 0:33:50 | |
You can see the motif on people's shirts. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:53 | |
We have had some cracking stories where people are misbehaving, | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
we can go on the system, find out the person's seat number, | 0:33:56 | 0:34:00 | |
add them in, he will bring up his ticketing details | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
and I can ring his mobile. | 0:34:04 | 0:34:06 | |
And this guy is picking up his mobile up and I'm saying, | 0:34:06 | 0:34:08 | |
"Do us a favour. Your behaviour is out of order. | 0:34:08 | 0:34:10 | |
-"Give it a rest." -Whilst physical abuse can be monitored remotely, | 0:34:10 | 0:34:15 | |
verbal abuse requires direct intervention. | 0:34:15 | 0:34:19 | |
And this is where the stewards step in and handle any abuse they hear. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:26 | |
# ..going down and the Mags are going up... # | 0:34:26 | 0:34:30 | |
Tonight, they will be dealing with 23,000 fans. | 0:34:30 | 0:34:35 | |
The point I thought about is when they walk through the turnstiles, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
everybody is getting searched for kind of weapons or, you know, | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
something that could cause damage. | 0:34:42 | 0:34:45 | |
And the reality is, there's things that can cause damage that you can't | 0:34:45 | 0:34:48 | |
find on them, there's words they can use that come out of their mouth, | 0:34:48 | 0:34:50 | |
and that is something that is uncontrollable, | 0:34:50 | 0:34:54 | |
really, until people get in there. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
Because they can sneak | 0:34:56 | 0:34:59 | |
their voices and their opinions in, | 0:34:59 | 0:35:01 | |
and then it's how it is controlled when they are within the ground. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
The chief steward is Mark Jenkins. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
Within ten minutes of kick-off, there is an incident. | 0:35:15 | 0:35:18 | |
We've got one racist comment which was made to one of our players. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
It was witnessed by a supervisor of ours. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:27 | |
They are actually talking to the gentleman now. | 0:35:27 | 0:35:29 | |
I spoke to the police to warn them. | 0:35:29 | 0:35:31 | |
Debbie, you will have to get a witness statement for that one. | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
-No problem. -And it was against Harris? | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
-Kadeem Harris. -So it was against a player? | 0:35:37 | 0:35:40 | |
It was against a player, yeah. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:41 | |
Called him a black... | 0:35:41 | 0:35:43 | |
Right, OK. | 0:35:43 | 0:35:44 | |
The offender is escorted from the stadium | 0:35:46 | 0:35:49 | |
and it is now a police matter. | 0:35:49 | 0:35:51 | |
If he goes to court with that, he will be banned from football. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
Newcastle should ban him anyway. We'll inform Newcastle. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:57 | |
-Right. -And they will ban him next, you know, | 0:35:57 | 0:36:00 | |
he will be gutted now for next year, won't he? | 0:36:00 | 0:36:02 | |
-Yeah. -But that's great. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:03 | |
Let me ask you an honest question, then. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
You know he got banned for making a racist comment | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
because there is no racism in football. | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
-Yeah. -Do you think, like, in there... | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
..not you, maybe one of the other stewards, | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
would they treat this in the exact same way | 0:36:17 | 0:36:19 | |
if it was a homophobic comment? | 0:36:19 | 0:36:20 | |
If I'm truthful, I would like to think that... | 0:36:23 | 0:36:26 | |
But the reality is... | 0:36:26 | 0:36:28 | |
I would like to think 100% they would. | 0:36:28 | 0:36:30 | |
-Yeah. -All of them. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:31 | |
Yeah. | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
If I'm truthful, you may not get that. | 0:36:33 | 0:36:36 | |
But we're not all perfect. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
Listen, no, mate. | 0:36:38 | 0:36:39 | |
But I would like to think that everyone would. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:44 | |
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:45 | |
I think Mark is probably the first real, | 0:36:49 | 0:36:52 | |
honest person to say how the reality | 0:36:52 | 0:36:55 | |
of trying to police homophobic abuse is, and where on the radar it is, | 0:36:55 | 0:37:00 | |
in the fact that somebody was kicked out of the ground for racism, | 0:37:00 | 0:37:05 | |
for racist abuse. And the reality would have been if that was | 0:37:05 | 0:37:08 | |
homophobic abuse, it probably wouldn't have happened. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:11 | |
So he's the first person to give us a real answer of what's going on - | 0:37:11 | 0:37:16 | |
not seeing a TV camera in front of him and thinking, | 0:37:16 | 0:37:19 | |
"This is what I should say, so this is what I will say." | 0:37:19 | 0:37:21 | |
He said, "This is what I think it is, and that's the reality of it." | 0:37:21 | 0:37:25 | |
But what I WILL say, and what I appreciate now, | 0:37:29 | 0:37:32 | |
it is definitely a minority. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:33 | |
Which to me, should make it easier to stamp it out. | 0:37:33 | 0:37:35 | |
Lose this minority from the game - | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
nobody really loses, everybody wins. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
So I'm not understanding how this minority is still able | 0:37:41 | 0:37:45 | |
to create just such chaos. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:47 | |
There are, though, some grassroots initiatives to improve the game. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:58 | |
Football V Homophobia - | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
a pressure group that organises an annual month of action, | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
highlighting issues across the game. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
Its impact is growing. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:20 | |
But currently only a third of all professional clubs support it. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:24 | |
Probably the most famous campaign is Rainbow Laces - | 0:38:27 | 0:38:31 | |
originated by gay rights charity Stonewall, | 0:38:31 | 0:38:34 | |
and this year sponsored by the Premier League. | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
It encourages the UK's 5,000 professional footballers | 0:38:38 | 0:38:42 | |
to wear rainbow laces on one Saturday of each season. | 0:38:42 | 0:38:47 | |
It is up to the individual whether they take part. | 0:38:47 | 0:38:50 | |
The majority choose not to. | 0:38:50 | 0:38:53 | |
What about the LGBT awareness campaigns | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
run by gay fans themselves? | 0:38:59 | 0:39:01 | |
Since 2013, | 0:39:01 | 0:39:03 | |
12 of the Premier League teams have had LGBT fan groups officially | 0:39:03 | 0:39:08 | |
recognised by their clubs. | 0:39:08 | 0:39:10 | |
Some clubs allow banners. | 0:39:10 | 0:39:13 | |
But that's no guarantee against abuse. | 0:39:13 | 0:39:15 | |
This week I was with a female partner | 0:39:15 | 0:39:19 | |
and we were walking over the bridge, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:20 | |
to the match. And she kissed me goodbye, really briefly, | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
not like a make-out session or anything like that. | 0:39:23 | 0:39:25 | |
It was a real brief peck. | 0:39:25 | 0:39:27 | |
And instantly there were some lads walking past and we got, | 0:39:27 | 0:39:30 | |
"Oh, what is that? That is disgusting. Did they just ... kiss?" | 0:39:30 | 0:39:34 | |
I'm still very uneasy about holding hands or anything like that. | 0:39:34 | 0:39:37 | |
Because having been attacked a couple of times, | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
-for me, it's too dangerous. -Yeah. | 0:39:40 | 0:39:43 | |
What worries me and what concerns me is that everyone, like, | 0:39:43 | 0:39:47 | |
has their own agenda, so everyone pulls in their own direction. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:51 | |
And they are all doing good things, but them things are not spread | 0:39:51 | 0:39:53 | |
across football, they are just individual for that ground. | 0:39:53 | 0:39:56 | |
And then you go to another ground, and there might be nothing. | 0:39:56 | 0:39:58 | |
Or you go to another ground and there might be something | 0:39:58 | 0:40:01 | |
completely different. You know, what I feel should happen | 0:40:01 | 0:40:04 | |
is an umbrella law, | 0:40:04 | 0:40:05 | |
which basically, I feel, the people have the power to do that, the FA, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
the Premier League, they have the power to say to all clubs, | 0:40:09 | 0:40:13 | |
all players, | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
all stewards, "This is what you should do. | 0:40:15 | 0:40:18 | |
"Or this is what has to be done in every ground." | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
These are thoughts that Alfie would like to share with Greg Clarke, | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
chairman of the FA. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:25 | |
We may not have figured out how to crack it yet, | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
but there's a deep loathing of that sort of behaviour | 0:40:27 | 0:40:30 | |
throughout football. | 0:40:30 | 0:40:31 | |
If only they could compare notes. | 0:40:31 | 0:40:33 | |
RINGING TONE | 0:40:34 | 0:40:36 | |
-ANSWER PHONE MESSAGE: -Hello. I'm sorry, but about the person | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
you've called is not available. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:41 | |
Please leave your message after the tone. | 0:40:41 | 0:40:43 | |
-BEEP -It's Gareth Thomas here. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:46 | |
A call-back would be much appreciated, mate. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:48 | |
If not, I'll try you again. Take care, buddy. Bye. | 0:40:48 | 0:40:51 | |
I feel like I'm working in a call centre, | 0:40:55 | 0:40:57 | |
trying to sell somebody something that they really don't want. | 0:40:57 | 0:41:00 | |
But, you know what, it takes five seconds for me to pick up a phone | 0:41:02 | 0:41:06 | |
and keep calling. And if I take five seconds out of my day | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
every now and again, then so be it. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:10 | |
I pick the phone up and I keep calling them. | 0:41:10 | 0:41:12 | |
Until one of them has the balls to either say, "Yeah, do you know, | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
"we'll meet you." | 0:41:15 | 0:41:16 | |
Or say, "Do you know what? No, it doesn't interest us." | 0:41:16 | 0:41:19 | |
Either way, it's a definitive answer. | 0:41:19 | 0:41:21 | |
Until then, Alfie is taking matters into his own hands. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:27 | |
It just seems to me that people who are at the top of the game are not | 0:41:29 | 0:41:33 | |
interested. And if I was a player, | 0:41:33 | 0:41:35 | |
and as we know for a fact that there are Premier League footballers | 0:41:35 | 0:41:39 | |
who are gay and closeted, then, to me, | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
this just shows a sign that the top of the game doesn't really care. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:46 | |
It doesn't want to make a change, | 0:41:46 | 0:41:49 | |
it doesn't want to actually stamp down and do something, | 0:41:49 | 0:41:51 | |
because as far as they're concerned, | 0:41:51 | 0:41:54 | |
it's a very minimal problem | 0:41:54 | 0:41:56 | |
and they've got a bigger issue to deal with - | 0:41:56 | 0:41:58 | |
and that's keeping the game of football, probably making money. | 0:41:58 | 0:42:02 | |
So rather than just talk about it now, I feel it is time, | 0:42:02 | 0:42:05 | |
from what I've learned, to do something about it. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:07 | |
So we're going to see lawyers to try and get some kind of charter | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
drawn up. Take this charter to the likes of the FA, | 0:42:10 | 0:42:13 | |
the Premier League, to the clubs, to the owners, | 0:42:13 | 0:42:16 | |
to say, within our ground... | 0:42:16 | 0:42:18 | |
..this form of abuse is not tolerated and will be punished. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
To see if they will sign it, because to me | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
there is no reason why they shouldn't sign it. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
The charter Alfie has in mind is a code of practice against homophobia, | 0:42:36 | 0:42:40 | |
as already used in other European leagues. | 0:42:40 | 0:42:43 | |
-Hello, bud. How are you doing? -Not bad. You? | 0:42:43 | 0:42:47 | |
Yeah, good. Good to see you. | 0:42:47 | 0:42:49 | |
He has chosen international lawyer Gabriele Giambrone to help. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:53 | |
I think we need to change the culture completely from the top. | 0:42:53 | 0:42:57 | |
I mean, you heard an interview by the FA chairman this year. | 0:42:57 | 0:43:01 | |
He is the one who said this is not the right time | 0:43:01 | 0:43:04 | |
for a gay footballer to come out. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:06 | |
And this is coming from the top of the FA. | 0:43:06 | 0:43:08 | |
If the chairman of Microsoft or Facebook would say, | 0:43:08 | 0:43:13 | |
it's not the right time for one of my employees | 0:43:13 | 0:43:17 | |
to come out as being gay, | 0:43:17 | 0:43:18 | |
he would be sued for thousands and thousands of pounds. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:22 | |
So, it feels like football is in a galaxy | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
miles away, with its own rules, which it's not. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:29 | |
Do you have some kind of policy or code of conduct | 0:43:29 | 0:43:31 | |
within other countries, and the UK is way behind | 0:43:31 | 0:43:34 | |
and it doesn't even know it? | 0:43:34 | 0:43:36 | |
The UK is maybe behind and maybe doesn't even know it. | 0:43:36 | 0:43:40 | |
There are countries, for example, like Spain or Italy, | 0:43:40 | 0:43:43 | |
that have stricter rules, | 0:43:43 | 0:43:45 | |
because there is a code, and the code applies to everybody. | 0:43:45 | 0:43:49 | |
I would say that for sure | 0:43:49 | 0:43:51 | |
the Italian, for example, system or the Spanish system have | 0:43:51 | 0:43:56 | |
stricter rules. | 0:43:56 | 0:43:57 | |
Whether the rules | 0:43:57 | 0:43:59 | |
are followed or not, that's another issue. | 0:43:59 | 0:44:02 | |
But at least the rules are there. | 0:44:02 | 0:44:03 | |
Even though it might sound complicated, | 0:44:03 | 0:44:05 | |
it's actually really simple. | 0:44:05 | 0:44:06 | |
You're just giving people a human right to be able to be themselves | 0:44:06 | 0:44:11 | |
and not be discriminated against for it. | 0:44:11 | 0:44:14 | |
And if you are, then you break the law. | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
Right, Gareth. I think that there are two issues here. | 0:44:16 | 0:44:20 | |
The code of practice in itself | 0:44:20 | 0:44:22 | |
is a self-regulating code that clubs may or may not adopt. | 0:44:22 | 0:44:27 | |
But the issue is that unless there is serious legal consequences of | 0:44:27 | 0:44:31 | |
breaching those rules, | 0:44:31 | 0:44:32 | |
they would just simply not be implemented by the clubs. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:36 | |
So my suggestion would be, for example, | 0:44:36 | 0:44:38 | |
just to change the Football Offences Act 1991. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:42 | |
I mean, this act is about 27 years old now. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
If you are chanting racial abuse at the moment, | 0:44:46 | 0:44:50 | |
under the 1991 act, that is an offence. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:53 | |
If you say anything homophobic, under the act - | 0:44:53 | 0:44:56 | |
so we're referring to the 1991 act - that is NOT an offence. | 0:44:56 | 0:45:00 | |
-Right. -So it is probably just about time we can revisit it. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:03 | |
Parliament can revisit it | 0:45:03 | 0:45:05 | |
and introduce homophobia as well as racism as one of the issues | 0:45:05 | 0:45:08 | |
that could lead to the committal of an offence. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
While changing the law may even take Alfie a while, | 0:45:12 | 0:45:15 | |
he believes that a code of practice is achievable in the short term. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
Really happy. I think a fantastic meeting. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:24 | |
It's great to have something to focus on. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
But also this thing we've got to focus on | 0:45:26 | 0:45:28 | |
has a possible outcome as well. | 0:45:28 | 0:45:30 | |
So it's great, it's given a whole... | 0:45:31 | 0:45:34 | |
It's given me a whole new energy. | 0:45:34 | 0:45:37 | |
I've really found something to fight for. | 0:45:37 | 0:45:39 | |
It's the end of the football season, | 0:45:43 | 0:45:45 | |
and Brighton have been promoted to the Premier League. | 0:45:45 | 0:45:48 | |
Some supporters of their arch-rivals, Crystal Palace, | 0:45:48 | 0:45:51 | |
have gone online... | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
to congratulate them. | 0:45:53 | 0:45:54 | |
One I've just got up here is two Brighton players, | 0:45:56 | 0:46:00 | |
one is giving the other one a kiss on the cheek. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:03 | |
And the guy has wrote, "Typical of this club." | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
So the other one I have gone to is again from a Crystal Palace fan, | 0:46:08 | 0:46:11 | |
which starts off with saying... | 0:46:11 | 0:46:13 | |
"Glenn trying his hardest not to get bummed by the bender brigade." | 0:46:13 | 0:46:18 | |
And when I play that... | 0:46:18 | 0:46:20 | |
'Oh! Oh, help me. | 0:46:21 | 0:46:23 | |
'Let me get out. Oh, Christ! No! Stay away! | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
'Don't touch me.' | 0:46:27 | 0:46:29 | |
You wouldn't even expect that from children in a playground in 2017. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:36 | |
It is being retweeted. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:38 | |
It's been liked. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:40 | |
So in response, | 0:46:40 | 0:46:42 | |
the LGBT group of Crystal Palace fans, called Proud And Palace, | 0:46:42 | 0:46:47 | |
have felt that they have to make a response for this, and it reads... | 0:46:47 | 0:46:52 | |
"It isn't just banter, it's offensive. | 0:46:52 | 0:46:54 | |
"We won't accept it. We won't tolerate it | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
"and we will actively support the club in addressing it." | 0:46:56 | 0:46:58 | |
So, in response to the statement made by the LGBT group... | 0:46:59 | 0:47:05 | |
which says, "It was only a matter of time before this got out of hand and | 0:47:05 | 0:47:09 | |
"people were banging the gay PC drum. | 0:47:09 | 0:47:12 | |
"I don't think many people who join in | 0:47:12 | 0:47:14 | |
"the 'Brighton take it up the bum' chants | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
"have any real malicious intent." | 0:47:17 | 0:47:19 | |
And then underneath, "The fact that Brighton find | 0:47:21 | 0:47:25 | |
"being called gay insulting, makes THEM the homophobic ones!" | 0:47:25 | 0:47:29 | |
Wow! Wow! | 0:47:29 | 0:47:31 | |
Imagine climbing inside his head for ten minutes. | 0:47:31 | 0:47:35 | |
I would love... I would give my right arm, right, | 0:47:35 | 0:47:38 | |
to sit down in a room with some of these people, | 0:47:38 | 0:47:41 | |
just to, like, understand their views. | 0:47:41 | 0:47:44 | |
Or even just to see them. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:45 | |
"Hello, everyone. My name is Gareth Thomas, | 0:47:45 | 0:47:49 | |
"and I'm a former rugby player." | 0:47:49 | 0:47:51 | |
So Alfie adds his own post to the forum. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:54 | |
"I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, | 0:47:54 | 0:47:56 | |
"but should also be brave enough to defend their opinions | 0:47:56 | 0:47:59 | |
"when challenged. | 0:47:59 | 0:48:00 | |
"On that note, I would really like to invite some of you to meet and | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
"exchange opinions on this subject." | 0:48:04 | 0:48:06 | |
And I will sign in as my name | 0:48:06 | 0:48:08 | |
because I am brave enough to stand for my opinions | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
and put my name to my opinions. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:13 | |
I have thought about putting a kiss, | 0:48:13 | 0:48:16 | |
but I wouldn't...cos it's football. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
So here goes, I'm about to post it into the unknown. | 0:48:18 | 0:48:22 | |
Back of the net! | 0:48:24 | 0:48:25 | |
After 16 weeks of calls, e-mails and texts, | 0:48:34 | 0:48:38 | |
the FA is still avoiding his request | 0:48:38 | 0:48:39 | |
for an interview with chairman Greg Clarke. | 0:48:39 | 0:48:42 | |
I have a strong connection to this, and it is something | 0:48:46 | 0:48:49 | |
that I passionately, I passionately care about. | 0:48:49 | 0:48:52 | |
And that's why, you know, | 0:48:54 | 0:48:55 | |
I want to speak to people | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
who have the power to be able to make a bit of change, maybe. | 0:48:57 | 0:49:01 | |
But the Premier League - | 0:49:01 | 0:49:03 | |
the richest league in the world - have offered a meeting. | 0:49:03 | 0:49:06 | |
Thanks, mate. Cheers, man. Cheers, buddy. Bye-bye. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:10 | |
Alfie sets out with a list of questions - | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
top of which is, will the Premier League sign up | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
to his code of conduct? | 0:49:22 | 0:49:23 | |
Chief Executive Bill Bush has laid down one condition for the meeting - | 0:49:25 | 0:49:30 | |
no cameras allowed. | 0:49:30 | 0:49:31 | |
Which makes me very dubious and sceptical. | 0:49:32 | 0:49:35 | |
And I hope he can understand, er, you know, why I feel that way. | 0:49:35 | 0:49:38 | |
So I'm going to push him on some questions, | 0:49:38 | 0:49:40 | |
as to their responsibility for players, and what are they doing | 0:49:40 | 0:49:44 | |
to hold that responsibility to players. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
But, also, it seems to me like a bit of a copout because I think maybe | 0:49:47 | 0:49:51 | |
he understands I know more about this subject than he does, | 0:49:51 | 0:49:54 | |
so he thinks when I talk to the camera about my interview about him, | 0:49:54 | 0:49:58 | |
I could probably put it in a better way than he potentially could. | 0:49:58 | 0:50:01 | |
So that is one thing. That is one of my theories, but it is definitely | 0:50:01 | 0:50:05 | |
interesting to me and very much seems like a copout | 0:50:05 | 0:50:09 | |
as to why he wouldn't talk on camera. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
-INTERCOM: -Premier League. -Hello. It's Gareth Thomas, | 0:50:13 | 0:50:15 | |
I have a meeting with Bill Bush. | 0:50:15 | 0:50:17 | |
-BUZZER -Thank you. | 0:50:18 | 0:50:20 | |
Alfie goes in, the camera remains outside. | 0:50:20 | 0:50:24 | |
The meeting lasted over 40 minutes. | 0:50:32 | 0:50:34 | |
The standard answer is, you know, "We're in line with Stonewall. | 0:50:38 | 0:50:44 | |
"We're in line with Kick it Out... | 0:50:44 | 0:50:45 | |
"Football Against Homophobia." | 0:50:47 | 0:50:50 | |
Now, all of these are kind of campaigns... | 0:50:50 | 0:50:52 | |
..that show awareness. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:56 | |
They are not campaigns that are really going forward and actually | 0:50:56 | 0:51:00 | |
stopping homophobic abuse going on. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:04 | |
I would like to know why this is all being allowed, | 0:51:04 | 0:51:07 | |
why this is all being tolerated | 0:51:07 | 0:51:10 | |
and why this all seems to be OK and nothing is being done about it. | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
Those ultimately are the answers that I was looking for. | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
And being told that, you know, you're in line with an organisation, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:21 | |
or they have passed this on to a campaign | 0:51:21 | 0:51:25 | |
is not the answer I was looking for | 0:51:25 | 0:51:28 | |
from people with ridiculous amounts of power within the game. | 0:51:28 | 0:51:32 | |
Alfie's had some responses from the Palace fans. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:46 | |
"Some mincers just don't know when to stop. | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
"There's only one Gareth Thomas, one Gareth Thomas. | 0:51:50 | 0:51:52 | |
"He used to be straight until he shagged his team-mate | 0:51:52 | 0:51:56 | |
"Now living in a felcher's fairyland." | 0:51:56 | 0:51:59 | |
Um... It's just rubbish, it's just absolutely pathetic. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:02 | |
This one now has got | 0:52:02 | 0:52:04 | |
quite a long one. It says, "Make no mistake and be warned, | 0:52:04 | 0:52:08 | |
"the BBC and Gareth are out to do a hit-piece on EPL football fans | 0:52:08 | 0:52:14 | |
"to further their aggressive gay agenda. | 0:52:14 | 0:52:16 | |
"These people | 0:52:16 | 0:52:19 | |
"are agenda-driven political activists | 0:52:19 | 0:52:21 | |
"and they already know exactly what their documentary is | 0:52:21 | 0:52:24 | |
"going to say. I am calling YOU out, Gareth. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:27 | |
"Fuck off, away from our beloved football where, everyone, | 0:52:27 | 0:52:30 | |
"including gays, are welcome to scream and shout | 0:52:30 | 0:52:32 | |
"and unload their weekly stress without | 0:52:32 | 0:52:34 | |
"fear of you bullying them with your PC propaganda." | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
It's not about, you know, | 0:52:39 | 0:52:41 | |
I've come on behalf of, like, the LGBT community. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
I've come on behalf of somebody who knows what it's like to be in | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
a sporting environment and have to lie to everybody, | 0:52:48 | 0:52:51 | |
and the fear of potentially telling the truth. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:54 | |
"I personally think the BBC should do a bit of research | 0:52:54 | 0:52:56 | |
"on how many paedophiles are gay. | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
"It's probably why Brighton are considering erecting a massive fence | 0:53:00 | 0:53:04 | |
"around their family section." | 0:53:04 | 0:53:07 | |
Like, that is just... | 0:53:07 | 0:53:08 | |
The fact that I have even read that actually... | 0:53:08 | 0:53:12 | |
like, makes me feel sick. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:14 | |
And, again, you can imagine what kind of chant | 0:53:14 | 0:53:16 | |
that could turn into it. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:17 | |
We've got another one here that says, | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
"Amazed how juvenile and pathetic people are on here. | 0:53:20 | 0:53:22 | |
"Grow up. | 0:53:22 | 0:53:23 | |
"These school yard taunts are ridiculous. | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
"I am assuming some of you have kids. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:28 | |
"What on earth would your response be if they turned out to be gay?" | 0:53:28 | 0:53:31 | |
Again, she or he has summed it up perfectly there. | 0:53:31 | 0:53:36 | |
And the reality is that, do you know what, | 0:53:36 | 0:53:38 | |
this is not just me saying this any more. | 0:53:38 | 0:53:40 | |
This is like other fans of yours. | 0:53:40 | 0:53:43 | |
Because if you take these opinions into the football ground, | 0:53:43 | 0:53:45 | |
do you think that is OK? | 0:53:45 | 0:53:48 | |
Do you think that is fine? | 0:53:48 | 0:53:49 | |
So I'm kind of still at the place where I was at the start. | 0:53:51 | 0:53:53 | |
I'd like to meet them, I'd like to chat with them, | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
I'd like to discuss that with them. | 0:53:55 | 0:53:57 | |
Because if they assume that this documentary is already, you know, | 0:53:57 | 0:54:01 | |
already decided and already made up, | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
then come and chat with me and change my mind. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
Alfie posts an invite, naming a time and a place. | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
So I am going to be at Graces Bar & Grill in Beckenham | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
on Wednesday 21st of June at 7pm. | 0:54:15 | 0:54:17 | |
So hopefully see you there. | 0:54:17 | 0:54:19 | |
So, the table is now set. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:30 | |
And I sit... | 0:54:32 | 0:54:33 | |
..and I wait. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:37 | |
You know, you want someone like David Beckham to stand up and say, | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
"Look, it's all right to be gay. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:50 | |
"Who cares?" You want someone like Messi to say it. | 0:54:50 | 0:54:53 | |
And then I feel that would make, like, young people be like, | 0:54:53 | 0:54:57 | |
"Well, maybe it's all right to be gay in football." | 0:54:57 | 0:55:00 | |
We need the governing bodies | 0:55:05 | 0:55:07 | |
to just increase their awareness and | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
visibility and their fight against it. | 0:55:09 | 0:55:11 | |
Because that could be the difference. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:13 | |
That could be the 1% that tips a footballer from saying, | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
"Do you know what, I've got everything and now I'm going to go." | 0:55:15 | 0:55:18 | |
And it's never going to be a perfect environment. | 0:55:18 | 0:55:20 | |
He is never going to feel ready, but he is going to think, | 0:55:20 | 0:55:22 | |
"There's enough in place that the risks are as low as they could be, | 0:55:22 | 0:55:25 | |
"let's go for it." | 0:55:25 | 0:55:27 | |
After an hour, it's clear | 0:55:29 | 0:55:31 | |
Alfie won't be exchanging views with his online abusers. | 0:55:31 | 0:55:35 | |
At this point, I can actually say | 0:55:35 | 0:55:38 | |
that whoever they are behind the messages are cowards. | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
They've called me a hell of a lot worse names. | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
And I have accepted it, and I've said, "Do you know what, that's OK. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:48 | |
"If that's your opinion, fine. But discuss your opinion with me." | 0:55:48 | 0:55:51 | |
So, empty chairs... | 0:55:51 | 0:55:54 | |
not filled by cowards. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:55 | |
He never heard back from FA chairman Greg Clarke, either. | 0:55:59 | 0:56:03 | |
But Alfie HAS heard from his lawyers. | 0:56:06 | 0:56:09 | |
They've drawn up and sent him the code of practice. | 0:56:09 | 0:56:12 | |
There are 17 points for the code | 0:56:12 | 0:56:14 | |
but, for me, the most important points are these. | 0:56:14 | 0:56:17 | |
"All match-day materials, programmes, | 0:56:17 | 0:56:19 | |
"tickets and season tickets | 0:56:19 | 0:56:21 | |
"to highlight the zero tolerance of homophobia | 0:56:21 | 0:56:23 | |
"and how to report abuse if observed. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:26 | |
"A pre-match video to be played at every football ground prior to the | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
"match, stating the zero tolerance of the homophobia charter. | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
"A minimum three-year ban for any fan found guilty | 0:56:33 | 0:56:37 | |
"of homophobic abuse." | 0:56:37 | 0:56:38 | |
So I am going to send this to Bill Bush of the Premier League | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
and Greg Clarke of the FA. I'm going to send it to the Football League, | 0:56:41 | 0:56:45 | |
the PFA and all 92 clubs within England and Wales. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:48 | |
So... | 0:56:48 | 0:56:49 | |
All I know is, we've tried our hardest, we've tried our best. | 0:56:50 | 0:56:53 | |
This is what we have come up with. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:54 | |
Hopefully it will have been worthwhile. | 0:56:54 | 0:56:57 | |
Gareth "Alfie" Thomas asked many questions | 0:56:58 | 0:57:01 | |
over the course of his investigation. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:04 | |
There is one final one he's asking himself. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:07 | |
If he were a gay footballer today... | 0:57:08 | 0:57:10 | |
..would he come out? | 0:57:12 | 0:57:14 | |
I would love to come out | 0:57:14 | 0:57:17 | |
because I would challenge every dickhead who sits behind a desk | 0:57:17 | 0:57:19 | |
with a shirt and tie to say, "Right, mate. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
"Right, OK, now will you support me? | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
"Here I am. NOW support me. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:26 | |
"Now show me what you've learned." | 0:57:26 | 0:57:28 | |
And I would boot the door open to the PFA | 0:57:28 | 0:57:30 | |
and boot the door open to the Premier League and I would say, | 0:57:30 | 0:57:32 | |
"I am standing in front of you now, bud. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:35 | |
"Now what are you going to do about it?" | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 |