Eluned Bengoch

-

-It was 1967 at Bala - everyone was

-amazed to see a woman standing up.

-Is there a reason why women have not

-been important poets in the past?

-I don't see why that should be.

-Women do everything nowadays.

-I don't understand it - I've worked

-easily alongside men all my life...

-..but when it comes to poetry

-they don't want to know you.

-When I won my first Crown,

-I stood up nervously.

-As I did so, a man behind me

-tugged my skirt...

-..and said,

-"Sit down, I want to see!"

-I remember Dilys Cadwaladr

-warned me at that time...

-..I wouldn't be admitted into poetic

-circles, as she herself experienced.

-I discovered that quite early, when

-I first started writing poetry.

-I was aged seven

-when I published my first poem.

-There was a forester living near us,

-employed by the Cawdor estate.

-He told my mother it was impossible

-that I could have written my poem.

-So she took me into the house,

-sat me down...

-..and told Morgan, this fellow,

-to give me a subject.

-The subject he gave me

-was 'The Forester'!

-Unfortunately, he'd cut down

-a tree I used to enjoy climbing.

-I was really fond of that tree,

-and I couldn't forgive him for it.

-So I sat down and wrote about him

-as a murderer.

-Oh dear, he wasn't happy about that!

-Mam was pleased I'd written the poem

-but I almost got a good hiding...

-..because Morgan used to give her

-left-over branches for firewood!

-Elizabeth Watkin Jones's book,

-'Luned Bengoch' (Red-haired Luned)..

-..was published when I was a pupil

-at Cardigan Grammar School.

-I'd already had enough jibes!

-In Cardigan, WH Smith had displayed

-eight copies of 'Luned Bengoch'.

-Naturally, I never heard the end

-of it, particularly from the boys.

-Well, enough was enough, so I

-decided to do something about it.

-In our garden we had many pretty

-flowers, wild daffodils and so on.

-I cut them

-- I stole them from Mam, really!

-I sold them to her friends, and with

-the money, I bought the books...

-..and to my shame

-I burnt all eight copies!

-I'd never burnt a book before that,

-and I hope I never will again.

-I'm still ashamed of it.

-There was another woman in

-the village who had red hair...

-..and she took me under her wing.

-In the village at that time,

-the Women's Institute was strong.

-I think I was about eleven years old

-- no taller than I am now!

-She'd take me to the meetings.

-Once there was a competition,

-and she encouraged me to compete.

-I had started writing poetry then,

-though not so much prose...

-..and everyone knew

-I was that way inclined.

-But anyway, she was insistent

-that I should compete.

-I wrote an epic play,

-'The Fall of Jerusalem'.

-It was in English, of course, as was

-everything in the WI at that time.

-There were scenes of children being

-eaten, I don't remember exactly...

-..but I'd got all the details

-from Josefas for my great epic play!

-Well, the adjudicator

-was SB Jones, Y Cilie...

-..and I knew nothing at the time

-of the Cilie poetic tradition.

-SB Jones said there was

-a touch of Shakespeare in my work.

-That was it -

-I was going to be a writer.

-There was no doubt about it.

-That was what I was going to do.

-There's still something

-about me and my hair!

-My first minister had the poetic

-name of Gwallter Ddu - Black Walter.

-I thought the world of him.

-I'd walk with him,

-holding on to his arm...

-..because he'd listen to my poems

-- I was about seven years of age.

-And he told me I ought to publish.

-It was he who first encouraged me

-to start publishing my work.

-Gwallter Ddu - DD Walters -

-was our minister at Bryn Sion.

-This is where I was brought up,

-and I still think of it...

-..as a place to retreat to

-from time to time.

-My religion is simple -

-it's my own personal religion.

-I love coming to Bryn Sion

-for that intimacy.

-I wanted to be an auctioneer

-as a child!

-But Mam put her foot down,

-because it wasn't ladylike.

-I wanted to be a chemist, which was

-worse, because I wrote poetry...

-..and Mam said I was absent-minded

-and would end up poisoning someone.

-I wanted to be a preacher. My sister

-and I used to preach in the house...

-..and to be honest, people would

-have more fun when it was my turn.

-But unfortunately, I just couldn't

-pray in front of people...

-..and I used to go under the table!

-But my sister, to her credit,

-continues to preach today.

-I never knew my father - he died

-three months before I was born...

-..and then we all went

-to live with my grandmother.

-That was a special influence on me.

-She had a gift for storytelling

-- the stories she used to tell me!

-We lived in the Cwm Cuch area.

-She would tell me the story

-of Pwyll, Prince of Dyfed...

-..and I imagined his white hounds

-weaving their way through the trees.

-They were marvellous stories which

-really did fire my imagination.

-My grandmother was also a midwife

-to the gypsies...

-..and that was

-a real child's paradise.

-Here was Banc y Shifftwn...

-..which was my paradise as a child.

-There would be two, three

-or more caravans...

-..and you wouldn't believe the

-beautiful treasures inside them.

-I remember one night, a son had

-been born to one of the Lovells...

-..who were genuine Romanies.

-Mamgu was a queen by then, and I was

-allowed to go to the bonfire.

-It was a proper festival -

-a fiddler, dancing and singing.

-All kinds of merriment, and in

-the middle there was a fire...

-..with a huge ball of clay

-at its heart.

-When it was time to eat,

-they split open this ball...

-..and inside it there was

-a roasted hedgehog.

-I had a hedgehog at home as a pet...

-..which I used to feed every day

-with a saucer of milk.

-All they saw of me that night

-were my heels...

-..and sadly I broke all contact

-with the Gypsies forever.

-That was sad - I used to love them.

-Auntie Hannah was another influence.

-She lived with us after her husband

-died - she was a great storyteller.

-She was also well-known

-as a fisherwoman.

-This place is very important

-to the village.

-It's the only street we ever had

-- we used to call it Fish Street.

-Behind me here is where

-Auntie Hannah used to live.

-There used to be two cottages

-and one two-floored house here.

-She came to live here from the farm

-because she wanted to go fishing.

-That's why she moved here,

-and that's where she used to fish.

-The pool has been named after her

-- Hannah Rees's Pool.

-Her husband, Peter, was blind.

-He'd sit here in the doorway

-while she was fishing.

-She'd take the alarm clock with her

-and put it on the rock beside her.

-Otherwise, she'd forget

-she had to cook for Peter!

-Morgan the cat would go fishing

-with her, too.

-He was a sensible creature.

-She'd catch the fish,

-loads of them...

-..and Morgan would carry the fish

-back, without touching them...

-..and he'd put them

-down by Peter's feet.

-Auntie Hannah never lost anything.

-She had a pocket under her skirt.

-She'd put the small fish that she

-was supposed to throw back, in there

-Hannah, just as thrifty as everyone

-else, would put them in the pocket.

-She used to say there were

-terrible ructions...

-..when the bailiff

-came to look under her skirt!

-The river's important to everyone

-who's ever lived in Cenarth.

-You must know the names of the pools

-When they'd fish from coracles

-they'd start at Pwll Defed...

-..then over Y Dalar,

-and down either side of the island.

-Each side had a name

-- Gwar Beben and Bwlch Bach.

-Then down to Pwll Siencyn,

-and Pwll Drysu.

-I remember Pwll Drysu well -

-there was a tree...

-..which had fallen across the river

-- it was an ideal spot for poaching!

-One night the Archdruid of Brittany,

-a very accomplished poet...

-..was staying with us, the night

-before some eisteddfod or other.

-He'd heard about this poaching, and

-wanted to know what we got up to.

-So, we moved out on this fallen tree

-and cast our net...

-..and that was how we

-caught the fish, the salmon.

-He caught his spectacles on

-something and they fell off...

-..and he fell into the river!

-The biggest fish I ever caught!

-Poaching's a lot of bother.

-Poaching's a lot of bother.

-

-That's half the fun!

-I don't know how many girls

-used to go out poaching.

-Perhaps I used to do things

-others wouldn't.

-But tell me, what made you

-go out poaching?

-Well, if money's scarce, and you

-need money for fags or something...

-..it's better to go out and catch

-a fish than to steal the money.

-You didn't break the law then.

-After all, you're promised five

-loaves and two fish in the Bible!

-I had the urge to write 'cynghanedd'

-even before I could write poetry.

-They didn't teach it in school,

-as they do these days.

-Mam would pay for me to have lessons

-at Newcastle Emlyn, three miles away

-They were very good lessons,

-by Mrs Clement Davies...

-..wife of the Baptist minister

-at the Graig at the time.

-It was through her that I sat

-the Gorsedd examination.

-I sat three exams at one sitting.

-They don't do that any more.

-So I was accepted into the Gorsedd

-when I was about 16.

-That's how I started off.

-Ever since then, the Eisteddfod's

-been in my blood for good.

-For some reason, I was sent

-to boarding school in London.

-I think the reason was,

-and I didn't like the reason...

-..but I think the family

-wanted me to be a teacher.

-I think they thought boarding school

-would sort me out.

-Well, it didn't work!

-I had a friend called Joan there,

-and we were a like-minded pair.

-We wore high heels and lipstick...

-..and we'd go down the fire escape

-in the back, into Fleet Street!

-That's where I met Dewi Emrys,

-at long last!

-At that time,

-you weren't considered a writer...

-..unless you were starving

-in a garret.

-So I found a place in Bayswater,

-and met Norma from New Zealand.

-I wrote romantic love stories,

-before Mills & Boon existed...

-..and we sent them off, but Norma

-acted as my agent, my only one ever!

-I need someone like that, because

-I'm no good at asking for money.

-So she'd collect any money

-that came in.

-And I simply couldn't write these

-romances under my own name...

-..living in Wales at that time.

-I had to hide this from everyone.

-So she'd send these stories out

-under all kinds of pseudonyms.

-I've no idea what she called me.

-Certainly not my own name!

-Anyway, the first two I sent off

-were rejected.

-But the third time -

-third time lucky for a Welshman!

-I succeeded,

-and received three guineas.

-I was at home, and Mr Roy Evans

-from Newcastle Emlyn called.

-He was the Magistrates' Clerk

-at Newcastle Emlyn.

-He'd come to ask my mother

-whether I could work for him...

-..because his partner

-had to go to War, apparently.

-He wanted me to start immediately.

-I didn't know what to do,

-but we both went to the courtroom.

-He ran three courts. Newcastle

-Emlyn, Llandysul, and Pencader.

-While I was at those three courts,

-there were large crowds...

-..as many as a hundred, sometimes,

-especially in Pencader...

-..and I believe that was their

-answer to the theatre, at the time.

-Because you'd have the same crowd

-of regulars every time.

-I knew nothing of the law...

-..so I had to read Stone's Justices'

-Manual in bed every night.

-So while while I was in that job,

-I had to read up every night...

-..on the next morning's cases.

-I remember one that had a terrible

-effect on me, in Pencader.

-In court was a man who had broken

-into the Post Office in Pencader.

-He had no fixed address.

-He was Irish,

-and I'm usually very fond of them.

-But there was nothing we could do

-but send him to jail.

-I cried all night.

-When I came back to Wales,

-Dewi Emrys had come back, too...

-..and he lived in Talgarreg.

-He'd founded Sefydliad y Fforddolion

-and I was asked to join.

-We had a dinner one night

-in Newquay.

-The guest speaker was John Griffiths

-of the BBC in Swansea.

-I didn't know who he was, because

-I'd been out of Wales for so long.

-In fact, he was the strangest man

-I'd ever seen, at the time.

-He kept saying, "You've no chance.

-I already have enough scripts".

-I couldn't understand.

-Apparently, somebody had told him

-I was a writer, home from England.

-I think he was worried that I

-was going to ask him for work.

-But that hadn't crossed my mind.

-Well, I lost my temper, eventually.

-"Look here," I said, "I don't know

-who you are, but whoever you are...

-..don't imagine for one moment

-that I'd write a script for you."

-And that was that.

-I kept my distance from the man.

-And a very handsome man he was too,

-but I kept my distance.

-But in the end,

-two days after I'd gone home...

-..after falling out with him...

-..I received a letter

-asking me to write him a script.

-From then on,

-we became good friends.

-He was the kindest-hearted man

-I ever met.

-I wrote Welsh language features

-for John.

-I'd always drag Dewi Emrys

-into them wherever possible.

-I knew he needed the money.

-Of course, one of the highlights

-of the year for us...

-..would be the pilgrimage

-with Dewi Emrys to Pwll Deri.

-It was wonderful.

-We'd sit with him on the stone

-where he wrote 'Pwll Deri'.

-From Pwll Deri,

-we'd go on to Pwll Gwaelod.

-There was nothing there

-but a quiet little pub.

-We'd all go there, and about 2 in

-the morning when we'd had a few...

-..Dewi would have a glass

-of Creme de Menthe in his hand...

-..and one night

-he recited 'Pwll Deri'.

-I never heard anything like it.

-It was wonderful.

-This is the memorial

-to Dewi Emrys at Pwll Deri.

-I'm sure I can hear his laughter

-floating on the wind.

-They've given him two years extra.

-He was born in '81, not in '79.

-I was asked to join the people

-who wrote 'Teulu Ty Coch'.

-Later on came 'Teulu'r Mans',

-with John Griffiths, again.

-It was great fun, believe me.

-I became very fond of the character

-Joe Long - Manny Price, you see.

-Joe Long was named after a village

-character called Sam Long.

-We had a lot of fun with Sam Long.

-He looked a bit like Manny!

-Dilys played Annie May.

-But the boys were adamant. They had

-a name for the minister's wife.

-I was surprised when they said it

-was Eluned. She was named after me!

-My head swelled up!

-At last, I'd been noticed!

-I was the respectable

-minister's wife!

-But this respect didn't last...

-..because they decided that she

-was to be a very eccentric creature.

-She smoked, and swore.

-She did everything

-that a minister's wife shouldn't do!

-Winning the second Crown wasn't

-as thrilling as the first time.

-It was well-received eventually.

-It's been translated by now...

-..to English, French, Spanish,

-Italian, Sinhalese, and Tamil.

-And last week,

-a German professor wrote to me...

-..asking for another copy of the

-poem for somebody else to translate.

-So some good has come out of it!

-But I still write, and write poetry.

-Usually when I'm seriously

-writing poetry...

-..there'll be somebody ill at home

-and I'll be up with them all night.

-But on the whole,

-life has been good to me.

-These days, though I still go

-to Eisteddfodau, of course...

-..and meet the odd

-interesting character...

-..I'm not sure if it's as much fun

-generally as it used to be.

-People seem to be a lot more

-respectable than before.

-People don't have the same harmless

-fun that we used to have.

-Cynan was one of the greatest

-Eisteddfod characters for me.

-We got on like a house on fire.

-We quarrelled, and soon made up.

-But something funny happened once.

-I remember one afternoon we were

-in HTV making a programme...

-..and Cynan happened to be there

-too, making another programme.

-He saw me, and asked me

-to sit at his table for lunch.

-Of course, I sat by him nicely.

-He had a lighter, and it wasn't

-working. It was leaking gas.

-He said, "Listen to this",

-and he held the lighter to my ear.

-I was more than happy

-to oblige Cynan.

-But at that moment, his finger must

-have slipped, or something...

-..and the next thing we knew,

-my hair was in flames!

-If it wasn't for the teacher

-sitting with us...

-..I'm sure that would have been

-the end of Eluned Bengoch!

-S4C subtitles by

-TROSOL Cyf.