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T James Jones

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-# Remember

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-# Remember #

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-Good evening,

-and welcome once more to Cofio.

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-My guest is a poet,

-author and playwright.

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-I'm joined by a wizard with words.

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-He's one of the Parc Nest boys.

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-Welcome to our Archdruid,

-T James Jones.

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-There's only one way

-for us to start tonight.

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-Let's look back at some

-of your Eisteddfod successes.

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-TRUMPET FANFARE

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-There's silence in the pavilion.

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-There's now a ripple of applause.

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-He's not an unfamiliar face.

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-He's not an unfamiliar voice.

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-Neither is his family unfamiliar.

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-In case he's unknown to some...

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-..the crowned bard

-is Chief Poet T James Jones.

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-APPLAUSE

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-He was the Chief Poet at Fishguard

-two years ago.

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-He's one of the sons of Parc Nest...

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-..Newcastle Emlyn, Carmarthenshire.

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-APPLAUSE

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-The scoreline with his nephew...

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-..is an interesting one.

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-Dylan has two chairs and a crown.

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-Jim has two crowns and a chair.

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-LAUGHTER

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-Which of these two, I wonder...

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-..will be the first

-to achieve the double-double?

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-APPLAUSE

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-Dylan was mentioned there -

-Tudur Dylan, of course.

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-He's the son

-of John Gwilym Jones, your brother.

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-Looking back, is it pleasing

-to be given that recognition?

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-You've hit the right notes.

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-It's a fine experience,

-a real confidence booster.

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-With the Eisteddfod,

-you can submit your entry...

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-..use a nom de plume...

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-..and then the adjudicators

-can be frank and honest.

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-I've lost many times...

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-..before winning anything.

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-Where did your love of words start?

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-Oh...

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-..I was taught to recite.

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-That was years ago,

-and I went to eisteddfodau.

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-I learnt poetry by heart.

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-After that...

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-..I began to appreciate

-the poets and their skills.

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-I thought I'd try my hand at it.

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-You were responsible for the Welsh

-translation of Under Milk Wood.

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-I'd had the opportunity

-of playing the First Voice.

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-The production was in Laugharne.

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-Gwynne D Evans was the director.

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-He asked if I'd be interested

-in translating the play.

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-Of course, I jumped at the chance.

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-It was a work with which

-I was very familiar.

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-I'd been the First Voice, as I said.

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-That was it really.

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-I decided to write it

-in my own dialect.

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-Laugharne is in Carmarthenshire.

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-I could bring the characters

-to life.

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-I was able to place them, to give

-them roots within the county.

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-The county was Carmarthenshire.

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-Here is Jim rehearsing

-Dan Y Wenallt with Gwynne.

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-And at the doorway

-of Bethesda House...

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-..the Reverend Jenkins recites

-to Llareggub Hill his sunset poem.

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-"Every morning when I wake

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-"Dear Lord, a little prayer I make

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-"O please to keep Thy lovely eye

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-"On all poor creatures born to die.

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-"And every evening at sun-down

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-"I ask a blessing on the town

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-"For whether we last the night or no

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-"I'm sure is always touch and go."

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-As you've probably gathered,

-it's a rehearsal for Dan Y Wenallt.

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-It's a translation by Mr James Jones

-of Dylan Thomas's Under Milk Wood.

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-Are there any features or problems

-associated with this Welsh version?

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-No, I was surprised

-by the ease of the translation.

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-I think there's a reason for that.

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-Although Milk Wood was written

-in English, it's rhythmically Welsh.

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-Both the melody

-and rhythm are very Welsh.

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-Now the town is dusk.

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-Each cobble, donkey,

-goose and gooseberry street...

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-..is a thoroughfare of dusk.

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-And dusk and ceremonial dusk,

-and night's first darkening snow...

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-..and the sleep of birds, drift

-under and through the live dusk...

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-..of this place of love.

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-Llareggub is the capital of dusk.

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-Thanks. You've got it.

-You've set the right atmosphere.

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-I prefer it personally.

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-Dan Y Wenallt in Welsh is better.

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-I find its special, atmospheric

-quality most pleasing.

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-Well, I hadn't realized

-that clip even existed.

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-I hope somebody can give me a copy!

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-That was excellent,

-and it brought back sweet memories.

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-What is it about the play

-that makes it so popular?

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-How did it capture

-people's imagination?

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-I think he'd based it

-on characters he'd met.

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-They were from New Quay,

-where he'd been a wartime evacuee.

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-That's when he first

-started writing Under Milk Wood.

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-The shadow of the war

-loomed large over Under Milk Wood.

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-It's not just a romp,

-or a lightweight comedy.

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-Under the surface,

-there's sadness and great tragedy.

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-There's that mixture in it.

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-It's both comic and tragic.

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-It makes it a wonderful play,

-in my view.

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-Another great love

-of yours is sport.

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-We know you're fond of cricket.

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-But you're a big football fan too.

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-It started in your home area

-in your younger days.

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-Yes, I played a bit.

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-I started with the school team,

-and then Newcastle Emlyn.

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-Dic Jones played too.

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-Dic played alongside us.

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-Centre half was Dic's position.

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-My brothers John Gwilym

-and Aled played too.

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-All three of us played

-together at one time.

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-We'd travel around the county.

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-The Cardiganshire League

-was the competition.

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-I also remember playing a cup tie.

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-Roderick Bowen handed a cup to us.

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-The cup final

-was always held on Easter Monday.

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-We derived a lot of pleasure

-from playing the game.

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-Which team do you support?

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-Which team do you support?

-

-The Swans.

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-I supported them, of course...

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-..though, at that time, I didn't go

-to watch the Swans that often.

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-But I became a minister

-in Mynydd-bach, Swansea.

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-I was then, of course,

-very near to the Vetch.

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-I became a very fanatical supporter.

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-It had been an exciting time,

-of course, in the mid 1960s.

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-It was a golden era

-for Swansea's football team.

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-They reached the semi-final

-of the FA Cup.

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-Let's see them now.

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-Trevor Ford, the greatest

-centre forward Wales ever knew.

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-What are your reactions

-to Swansea's fantastic Cup run?

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-Wonderful, it's done Wales

-a lot of good.

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-I think they'll win next Saturday.

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-Oh, I think it's

-absolutely fantastic, as you say.

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-I think we'll beat Preston on

-Saturday, and go to the Cup Final.

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-We've just heard from your brother,

-Ivor, on his reactions.

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-Len, what do you think

-about Swansea's Cup run?

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-They've done magnificently so far.

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-I think they'll carry on

-the good work on Saturday.

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-I really think

-they're in with a great chance.

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-I still have a soft spot for them.

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-That's despite the fact

-that I now live in Cardiff.

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-I can't forsake my allegiance

-to the Swans.

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-I happened to be a minister

-in Swansea, in Mynydd-bach.

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-That was in the period

-when they went up from the Fourth.

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-They made it to the First Division.

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-I was there too when they faltered.

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-I think I moved from Swansea

-because of the downward trend.

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-What an exciting time

-it was in Swansea's history.

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-Thanks very much for now, Jim.

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-Join us again for Part Two.

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-# Remember #

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-.

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-# Remember #

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-Welcome back again to Cofio...

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-..and to my guest, T James Jones.

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-You've mentioned your time

-as a minister. What came next?

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-I went to Trinity College

-to become a drama lecturer.

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-After that...

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-..I went to the BBC

-as a drama script editor.

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-I worked mainly on Pobol Y Cwm.

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-But in that same period...

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-..the opportunity came along

-to write Y Palmant Aur.

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-I co-wrote it with Manon, my wife.

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-That was a very special experience.

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-Let's watch a clip from it.

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-Y Palmant Aur was a major success.

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-Hello.

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-Marged Ann.

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-You have pretty flowers there.

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-May I come with you?

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-You may.

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-Morgan and I share a birthday.

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-It's next Saturday.

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-The same day as the eisteddfod.

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-Yes.

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-I was born on a Sunday.

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-That's why you became a minister.

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-Yes, maybe.

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-Why did you leave

-the chapel, Luther?

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-Well...

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-Why?

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-Hypocrisy.

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-Yes. Yes.

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-Yes, hypocrisy.

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-Hypocrisy has worried many of us.

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-It's something that I've seen.

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-And it's something

-I've seen in myself too.

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-That's happened a few times.

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-The battle against hypocrisy...

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-..is a difficult battle.

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-But you must fight it,

-or else the truth gets lost.

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-You talk about hypocrisy.

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-You've questioned certain things.

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-You've perhaps questioned

-your faith as well.

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-You were moved to write a poem

-about the challenge to your faith.

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-Yes, I've penned a few poems

-recently on that subject.

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-It's something personal to me.

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-An opportunity came my way.

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-I went to see...

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-..not the Shroud itself in Torino...

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-..rather, it was the cupboard

-which contains the Shroud.

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-I went there by myself.

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-I'd arranged one morning

-to go along to the church.

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-I saw crowds of people

-doing the same.

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-They were all going to the church.

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-All of a sudden, I heard

-the sound of quiet applause.

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-A coffin was carried past me.

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-It resembled a boat on water.

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-In it went, into the church.

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-I realized it was a funeral,

-an important funeral.

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-Then another coffin arrives...

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-..and another coffin...

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-..and another coffin again.

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-I felt a tragedy must have occurred.

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-I could hear names mentioned.

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-They were repeated

-during the service.

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-Bruno, Angelo...

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-..Roberto, Antonio.

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-I found out later what had happened.

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-These four young boys...

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-..had been killed

-in a steelworks accident...

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-..in Torino.

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-It was a terrible tragedy.

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-Of course, in the background,

-beyond the altar...

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-..I could see the cupboard

-where the Shroud was kept.

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-I thought of the story

-about Christ himself...

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-..and how, in his grave,

-he had worn this Shroud.

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-Some burning had occurred there...

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-..to create his image on the Shroud.

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-Many people have their doubts.

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-They say the Shroud's a fraud.

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-The debate has raged on for years.

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-These past few years

-have seen it intensify.

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-I felt I was very, very close

-to this relic.

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-I was on the verge

-of believing in a falsehood.

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-That really shook me.

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-I felt...

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-..that whatever had happened

-on the cross to Jesus Christ...

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-..and in the grave afterwards...

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-..I saw that it

-could not save these four.

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-These four had gone.

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-All these thoughts and questions

-whirled around in my mind.

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-I felt so extremely lonely.

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-This is how I described

-the experience in the written word.

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-It was December time.

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-"The Piazza San Giovanni

-is the strait of grief's overflow.

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-"Hands clapping like waves breaking.

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-"And the coffins flow

-to this cave of a church.

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-"Bruno, Angelo, Roberto, Antonio

-are led...

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-"..to the ironic flames

-of the candles...

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-"..to the wafers

-as white as burning...

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-"..and the wine as red as embers.

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-"The steel

-of the white-hot furnace...

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-"..owns Bruno, Angelo,

-Roberto, Antonio.

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-"And neither the fiery word

-nor the brilliant psalm...

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-"..nor the molten ritual

-of handshaking...

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-"..can magic them back

-to their loved ones.

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-"And the Shroud's supposedly

-searing wizardry cannot remedy...

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-"..Bruno, Angelo,

-Roberto, Antonio...

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-"..to flesh and skin,

-to be strong boned...

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-"..to be dexterous, to be the voices

-of words still unspoken...

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-"..to be the memory of belonging...

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-"..to be the lap of comforting.

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-"For the Great Undertaker

-is not a conjuror...

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-"..who waves his wand

-above the cauldron of pity.

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-"After the funeral...

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-"..I touch the edge

-of the Shroud's shadow...

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-"..and shudder

-for having almost surrendered...

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-"..to the illusion of a relic...

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-"..and one which, it seems,

-is fake, at that.

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-"Leaving the cave,

-the piazza is as empty...

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-"..as a beach

-whose day is ebbing away.

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-"And the waves are now too far...

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-"..for us to hear them breaking.

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-"An isolated seagull

-stands on a tower...

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-"..with the blushing sunset

-in its feathers...

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-"..as lonely as a faithless soul.

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-"The chill of the steely city...

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-"..is as sharp as December crags.

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-"And there's nothing left

-but to pull...

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-"..my own shroud tighter."

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-You were destined to be there.

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-You were destined to be there.

-

-It was very strange indeed.

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-On another day,

-in an empty church...

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-..the experience

-would have been very different.

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-But it was being there

-at the funeral of four youngsters.

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-That's what did it for me.

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-I was very shaken.

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-Let's talk about your wife,

-Manon Rhys.

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-She often works alongside you.

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-Is she also your sounding board?

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-Oh, yes.

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-For a short while,

-when I first met her...

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-..I used to edit her work because

-I would oversee Pobol Y Cwm scripts.

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-I was her boss for a brief spell.

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-We're partners now.

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-She edits my work,

-and asks me to edit hers sometimes.

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-I'm sure you wouldn't forgive me...

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-..if I failed to mention

-another love of yours, cricket!

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-Cricket's always been

-a very important game for me.

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-My father taught me

-to play cricket on the farmyard.

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-Aled and John played, and Mam too!

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-Yes, she'd stand in front

-of the window, as extra cover.

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-Sometimes,

-we would sneak away from school...

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-..to watch Glamorgan play.

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-Those were the days

-they played in Llanelli.

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-We savoured one or two victories.

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-Here's an exciting event

-in Glamorgan cricket history.

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-Canterbury, 1993.

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-Tony Cottey somehow

-reaches the boundary.

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-Glamorgan win

-the Sunday League competition.

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-It's the first time they've done so.

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-It's unexpected, say the critics.

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-But it's well deserved,

-according to a leading batsman...

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-..and a Glamorgan hero that day...

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-..none other than Viv Richards.

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-We've accomplished something

-with the club, you know.

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-They gave us no chance,

-but we've shut a few people up.

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-Viv Richards was quite emotional.

0:21:330:21:35

-We'll turn now

-to this year's Eisteddfod.

0:21:350:21:39

-It'll be in Blaenau Gwent

-and the Heads of the Valleys.

0:21:400:21:43

-As the Archdruid,

-are you looking forward to it?

0:21:430:21:46

-Very much so,

-and I hope to enjoy it.

0:21:470:21:49

-It's in an area which I visited...

0:21:510:21:56

-..when it was last there,

-back in 1958.

0:21:560:21:59

-There's another reason

-why I'm looking forward to it.

0:22:000:22:04

-The Eisteddfod will be near

-my eldest grandson's school.

0:22:050:22:10

-He goes to school in Abergavenny,

-which is close by.

0:22:130:22:18

-I'll be a very proud Archdruid.

0:22:180:22:23

-Here's an old clip

-of that Eisteddfod.

0:22:240:22:26

-A little more than a year and a day

-since the Proclamation Ceremony...

0:22:370:22:42

-..Ebbw Vale is host to

-the National Eisteddfod of Wales.

0:22:420:22:45

-As a sequel to the Crowning,

-came the Chairing of the Bard.

0:22:460:22:51

-This year, a poem

-on the subject Caerleon-on-Usk...

0:22:510:22:55

-..made the winner, Mr T Llewelyn

-Jones, eligible for the Chair.

0:22:550:23:00

-Heart to Heart,

-Is there peace?

0:23:000:23:05

-Peace!

0:23:050:23:06

-Let the bard sit in peace.

0:23:060:23:10

-That was T Llew,

-one of my heroes, of course.

0:23:130:23:16

-He won the chair there.

0:23:160:23:18

-I hope I can chair and crown...

0:23:180:23:23

-..and hand out medals...

0:23:230:23:26

-..in Ebbw Vale.

0:23:260:23:28

-Those hours will be their hours.

0:23:290:23:33

-Is that the advice your brother,

-the former Archdruid, gave you?

0:23:340:23:38

-That's the advice

-John Gwilym gave me.

0:23:380:23:40

-Remember, it's not your time.

0:23:410:23:43

-That time is given

-to the author and the poet.

0:23:430:23:47

-I hope, I sincerely hope...

0:23:470:23:49

-..I can give a new lion a crown,

-a chair or a literary medal...

0:23:490:23:56

-..in Ebbw Vale.

0:23:580:24:00

-Thank you, Jim,

-for keeping me company tonight.

0:24:010:24:04

-I hope you've enjoyed

-looking back over your life, too.

0:24:040:24:08

-Thank you.

0:24:090:24:10

-That's all from us for tonight.

-Goodnight.

0:24:100:24:14

-# Remember

0:24:230:24:27

-# Remember #

0:24:330:24:36

-S4C Subtitles by Simian 04 Cyf.

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