Episode 2 Dragons' Den

These are the Dragons, five of Britain's wealthiest and most enterprising business leaders.

Over the coming weeks, they'll make and break the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

I think it will drop off a cliff.

On the business side, it looks so far a complete and utter disaster.

It's not just my foot that's itching. I'm getting frustrated.

I've got a funny feeling you might end up with five offers.

The multi-millionaire investors have each built up their fortunes from scratch.

Retail magnate Theo Paphitis.

Hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne.

Leisure industry expert Deborah Meaden.

Logistics queen Hilary Devey.

And telecoms giant Peter Jones.

The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment and the cash ready to invest,

but only in the right business.

Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs walk away with their money?

Welcome to the Dragons' Den. We have another group of anxious entrepreneurs waiting in the wings.

All they have to do is get their pitch perfect and prove they have a great product.

Oh, and demonstrate they have the skills to bring it to market, keep their costs down,

see off the competition and turn a healthy profit. Just do that and they're on their way.

First up is pentrepreneur Vicki Edmunds. It's a phrase we've coined for an entrepreneurial pensioner.

Let's see how she gets on.

SHE TAKES DEEP BREATH

Hello, Dragons. My name is Vicki Edmunds

and I'm here today to ask you for 15% of my business at £50,000.

Eat With A Local connects travellers to local people who will cook for them in their homes.

It's such a good site. It teaches you about different countries' culture.

I've hosted a family from New Zealand in my home in Wales

and until they dined with me they didn't know that I spoke Welsh.

I have been hosted by Eat With A Local members and when I was in Goa

I was taken to the beach with Megana and Parish

and we sipped cocktails watching the sun go down and Megana chose little titbits off the menu for me to try.

It was a wonderful experience.

When I started the website, I tried to promote it on Twitter

and I tweeted for two months before I realised I was tweeting myself, but I can do it now.

I can do it now. The other day I talked to a man from Venezuela.

Venezuela! And I did that. I did that!

I would dearly like to cook for you my lava bread and bacon if you don't mind.

Thank you very much for listening to my presentation. Thank you very much.

A somewhat flighty pitch from a whimsical Vicki Edmunds.

The children's entertainer is on a mission to unite food lovers across the globe

and she needs a £50,000 injection to do so. In return, she's offering 15% equity.

Can Duncan Bannatyne make sense of it all?

-Can you talk and cook at the same time?

-Well, I'll try. It'll take my mind off it a bit, won't it?

-Perhaps I won't be so nervous.

-I'll ask the easy questions, Vicki.

-That'd be good.

-How many members do you have?

-1,075 so far.

-How many people have you cooked for?

-Well, a student from the USA was studying in Oxford.

So she came and ate with me. That day I had tonsillitis!

I was in the doctor's when she arrived so my daughter had to go and meet her

and she had cricked her neck. And I had tonsillitis. But we had a wonderful time.

-So that's one, then.

-No, no, no. Una in Ireland,

she met up with a lady, Nina. Nina was a lot older than Una,

but Una said it was as if they were destined to meet.

I did that. My site was fundamental to them meeting.

-So you are totally, utterly responsible for connecting Una to "Ena"?!

-Yes! Yes!

You've got to taste this. It's lovely. It's really nice.

Oh, dear, I've missed one. Nobody said.

Please help yourselves.

Such a genial atmosphere rarely prevails in the Den.

-What's in lava bread?

-Seaweed.

-Real seaweed?

-Yeah. It's got iron.

-Lovely.

-But it's not Vicki's culinary skills that are on offer.

Peter Jones wants to bring it back to business.

Vicki, when I want to go and travel somewhere,

-do I have to pay anything to eat with you?

-Oh, right. First, you would go on the search engine.

You would type Spain and the members come up. Some would say they want a fee and some cook for free.

-OK. So I would then go and meet the family...

-Yes.

-..have a bite to eat.

-Yes. If you come to my house, I'd say, "There's a male voice choir tonight."

You get local information that you can't get in the usual guidebooks.

-Vicki...

-Yes?

-Out of the 1,075 members that you've currently got,

-how many of those charge?

-I can't give you a number, but surprisingly a lot of them don't.

-And they don't charge because they'll make a friend and feel that friend will reciprocate?

-Yes.

Hmm.

The Dragons seem to have bought in to Vicki's infectious enthusiasm

and now Deborah Meaden wants more detail about the business itself.

-So how are we going to make money out of this?

-Deborah, do you mind if I call my daughter, please?

-She knows all about the figures.

-Good idea.

-Thank you.

Georgia!

-PETER:

-Hi, Georgia.

-Hiya.

Hello. Nice to meet you.

So we've heard about the idea, but not how to make money out of it.

OK. We believe in three years we can receive 1.3 million members.

We're going to charge £10 to become verified and we think 2% of the members will take up that offer.

Also we think we can sell spices, sauces, recipe books in supermarkets.

-And also advertising.

-OK.

-That's a one-off payment, that £10?

-Yes, that's it.

-How much income would that give you?

-A quarter of a million if 2%...

-£260,000.

260. Pretty much quarter of a million.

Georgia's arrival has brought focus to the Den and revealed a plausible money-making opportunity.

Theo Paphitis is intrigued.

Georgia, what do you do?

Georgia came up with another site. Tell them about your other site.

-Come on.

-Date My Sister. My sister was trying to find a date.

-Date My Sister?

-Yeah, and it was quite...

-Did it work?

-Yeah. She married someone from the local pub after...

It didn't work for her.

Um, OK. What evidence have you got that you can make that

-into a commercially-viable business?

-I looked at other websites.

I've researched it. I think I've got these figures right. It's either 125 million or billion,

-it's worth, the tourist industry in this country.

-Billion.

-Billion.

And Crashpad, who got taken over the other day, they only had 7,000 members and got taken over by Airbnb

and I said to Georgia, "They only had 7,000 members. We have 1,000 and we haven't even tried!"

-So I reckon that it's going to get bigger and bigger and people will take over.

-It'll be huge.

-Huge.

OK, so £50,000.

-What were you intending to do with it?

-£20,000 would be on the website.

-OK.

-And £30,000 on advertising.

£20,000 on the website. What if it costs more?

The advertising budget would have to go down.

-We'd have to use more...

-We'd have a really nice website, but couldn't tell anybody how to get there.

Yeah, basically.

Vicki, Georgia, to do what you want to do is going to cost a lot more than £50,000.

And then to try to get £260,000 of revenue I think would be very difficult.

So I'm sorry. I can't invest in you.

CouchSurfing is huge, Crashpad is huge. We could be huge.

No.

You nearly did! You nearly did! You nearly said yes!

I'm out.

A dose of reality is finally served up to the enthusiastic entrepreneurs.

And now Deborah Meaden looks to have made up her mind, too.

I do get this whole travelling thing. It makes a big difference if you hook up with a local person,

but I have got experience in a website in this space

with a lot of traffic and a lot of members and it's still pretty tough to monetise it.

So I wish I could have found a way because it would be a load of fun, but I don't see the business model.

-So I'm really sorry. I won't be investing.

-But thank you very much.

-I'm out.

-Georgia, can I say it was a real pleasure to have your mum in the Den?

-Thank you.

I do think 1,000 members, you've proved that it works.

But as a business I don't think that it's there.

-I'm out, but it's been a real pleasure to meet you.

-Thank you.

Well, Vicki, I think you're fantastic. I'll join your site and have dinner one day at your house.

But it's not an investment that can give a return, so I've got to say that I'm out.

Kind words, but no cash. Only Hilary Devey remains.

Will she see an opportunity where her rivals have not?

Hmm.

-I think it's a fantastic idea.

-Thank you.

And if you're telling me that there's no other sites doing this, then I think it's very ingenious.

And I can think of a lot of ways of generating profit by contacting airlines,

if you get Eat With A Local vouchers, you know.

The amount of money that you are asking for, for so little equity, is not a viable proposition.

If I was to offer you...

the £50,000

for 95% of your company, what would you say?

-We'd give 50% of the business for £50,000.

-50?

Oh, gosh. Oh, gosh.

Oh, gosh.

No.

-Oh, sausages!

-What you're missing is so much commercial acumen here.

-OK, right.

-And £50,000 will not do this, for a kick off.

-I'm afraid I've got to say I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Thank you very much.

A tense finale to a light-hearted pitch.

Vicki and Georgia may have entertained, but heads rule hearts and they leave with nothing.

-You could not be unhappy around that woman.

-Fabulous.

-It's all about the person.

-Absolutely.

It was the most intense moment of my life, but then I felt all this love coming from the Dragons.

-I thought Hilary would invest.

-I met her gaze and she met my gaze. "I'm going to invest in you."

-And I thought she had. I could tell by Georgia's face that she hadn't said that. She didn't, did she?

-No.

It's not unusual for the Dragons to get toilet-based products pitched to them in the Den

and this year is no exception.

Scottish entrepreneur Gordon MacSween's is probably the most hi-tech of all those proposals.

And he hoped his advertising-based invention would be worth a £250,000 investment.

When people come into a washroom, they'll see entertaining content, interspersed with promotions.

They're standing in front of the world's first pee-controlled video game,

which I'll now demonstrate for you.

As soon as the person starts, it starts.

To go right, aim right. To go left, aim left.

-Theo Paphitis was able to sum up the pitch in just one letter.

-So your whole USP

is, in fact, the pee. You really expect anybody here

to offer you £250,000 for this?

I am optimistic. You'd expect that.

-Can I try it?

-You can.

-Tech expert Peter Jones couldn't resist a closer look.

-Excuse us.

-Skiing.

-I'm not telling you what you look like!

-Is that fun, Peter?

-It is.

At the end of the game, it presents a leaderboard. That could be for a whole chain of venues.

The problem is it's a game that you play when you have a wee.

No, put it down, Gordon.

In the end, it was Deborah Meaden who dashed Gordon's dreams of investment.

Companies who buy them are looking for people to go away and say, "You won't believe what they've got!"

And I agree that you'll sell some.

But its novelty is what gives it opportunity.

I think it will drop off a cliff,

-so I'm out.

-OK.

-Good luck.

Parents with young children often struggle to balance family time with the commitments of work.

Yusuf Chadun and Shazia Mustafa decided to do something about that

and think they've come up with a solution that's become a business.

The only question: will the Dragons think there's money to be made?

Hi. My name is Shazia Mustafa. I'm the co-founder of Third Door Workhub and Nursery.

Hello. My name's Yusuf. I'm the co-founder of Third Door.

We're here today to raise £120,000 in return for 20% equity in our innovative business.

For many working parents, childcare can be expensive and inflexible.

If you're a home-based employee having a new baby at home can be great,

but it can also affect productivity.

So we found a new solution and working. Third Door is an integrated combined professional workspace

with an onsite flexible day care nursery. Basically, the parents drop their child off at the nursery,

walk up the stairs and they're in the workhub - everything you need for a modern office.

In the last four years, we've taken an idea through to concept, to break even

and, hopefully, with your investment you can help us to grow. While we've been working, so has our daughter

under the supervision of our nursery manager. She'd like to show you what she's been doing

then we'll take any questions you may have. Thank you.

Husband and wife team Shazia Mustafa and Yusuf Chadun and their four-year-old daughter Esha'al...

-A dragon.

-Thank you.

-..need a £120,000 investment in their office-cum-nursery concept

for working parents.

-Thank you very much.

-Peter Jones looks impressed, but is it by the business proposition?

-Hi, I'm Peter.

-Hello, Peter.

It's a very clever tactic to come into the Den with a very, very cute little girl

and hand out little personal dragons, but getting back into reality of is this a real business,

what was the cost of set up, how long have you been trading and what's been the return to date?

OK. So our investment so far has been about £400,000.

The turnover in our first year was only £58,000. Our loss was about £193,000.

-Year Two has been £193,000.

-Yeah.

-With a net loss of £11,000.

-Yeah.

-Year Three, we're projected to make £381,000

-with a net profit of about £90,000.

-And this, your third year, is about to start?

-Or you're in it now?

-It's about to start.

-OK. So where have you spent all that money?

We paid £60,000 rent deposit.

Our fit out was about £200,000.

-Wow.

-Well, the rent is £60,000 a year

-and then working capital.

-OK. Are you scared?

-Scared? About...?

-About losing that money.

-Em...

It is a risk, it is a new concept, but we believe passionately that there is a market for this.

-Shazia, Yusuf...

-Sorry.

-You know I was in the nursery business?

-I'm struggling to see why you're losing so much money.

-OK.

-How many children can you accommodate?

-Twenty-four.

-Twenty-four?

Well, £400,000 to spend for 24 children

-is too expensive.

-OK.

-That is a disaster.

It's not a disaster. It does work. We've seen it work for two years.

-I'm really sorry to...

-OK, you're saying it's not a disaster.

You've lost £114,000 in three years and it's not a disaster?

But remember that also includes the office space as well.

-What office space is there?

-We can accommodate up to about 26 workers.

What do you think the value of your office space is? What rent can you get?

Em...I'd say more than £1,000 a day.

Well, it seems to me that you should just close the nursery and rent it out. That's £365,000 a year.

That's not our business. It isn't just the rental of office space.

But a business is an operation that makes money.

Not the best of starts for the two entrepreneurs

as industry expert Duncan Bannatyne berates their business plan.

Will they fare better under the scrutiny of Deborah Meaden?

Hi, guys. Hi. Do you know, I think it could work?

There is a lot of office space around and what you've tried to do

is add a reason for people to come to your office space.

So what I'm interested in is the business model.

-You're in Year Three. You're projecting £381,000-worth of revenue.

-Yeah.

-When does your year end?

-August. But we've given you the figures based on when we've been open

so May to April and then May to April again.

Does that make sense?

It gets slightly complicated! It does complicate things slightly.

It would be nice to say that when I looked at a set of accounts that was my profit figures.

-So if we looked at your accounts, what would they say?

-OK, so the accounts for the end of Year One...

So there were revenues of about £20,000.

-And profit or loss of what?

-The loss for that Year One...

Em...

..was...

Sorry, let me just think about this.

Can you help me with this?

-You've got your accounts there.

-I know...

-You print them out.

-The number at the bottom!

-I know...

-The most important number. You must remember them! Please!

We do, we do. He's just gone blank at the moment. Can we have a couple of minutes?

Or do we need to think in front of you?

-DEBORAH:

-Shall we?

That's fine. Go to the back of the room.

Come on, come on.

Well, this is unusual. Conversations at the back of the Den normally centre around negotiation strategy,

not discussions about how to rescue an ailing pitch.

-I can't remember.

-I've only looked to May.

What is it, Yusuf?

Guys, you really do need to do it.

It's really embarrassing.

Right. OK, what I can definitely tell you

from September, 2011, to date, we have made £131,000 turnover.

The two numbers before is what we can't remember because we focused on the others.

The loss on that was...

Do you remember the loss? The other two numbers on the...

-They're getting fed up with us.

-Yeah, I know.

HE WHISPERS

-I think this hasn't gone as you expected it to go.

-No.

One thing I will say to you, if you're going out to investors,

you do not have long to get their attention. You need to focus on the things you need to say

and you need to deliver them in a way an investor expects them to be delivered to them.

That's where you've gone wrong here, which I think is a shame.

-So I won't be investing. I'm out.

-OK.

It took courage to request a time-out in the Den, but sadly it hasn't paid off.

More bad news, it doesn't look like Hilary Devey is in the mood to offer any relief.

I've got so many numbers written down here and year ends and months, I don't know where I'm up to.

Tell me how you did your research to get your first batch of clients.

We wanted to quantify what the need was for that idea...

-What did you discover?

-What we discovered was there was five target segments.

We then went to market by creating advertising and marketing material

-attracting those potential individuals based on their...

-Yeah, I can feel my foot tickling.

-Over a period of time, we then...

-Did you do a business plan?

-Yeah.

-So you would have identified that rental of office accommodation

was far more profitable than what operating a nursery was.

-You did?

-Mm-hm.

-So why the hell didn't you do that?!

-Why didn't we do just the office?

-Yeah!

-Everyone else is doing the office only...

But you've just stood here and said that you could command a rental income of...

-£1,000 a day revenue, minimum.

-Yeah.

We go into business to make profit, do we not? So the most profitable part would be rental of offices

and you wouldn't have had those losses had you not gone into that nursery.

But we needed to make a loss before we could break even.

It's not just my foot itching. I'm getting really frustrated here.

-Sorry. Can I ask why you're getting frustrated?

-I'm getting frustrated because you've ignored

the most commercial, profitable part of that business plan and pitched the most unprofitable part.

-And can't even remember the figures!

-OK, let's...

I'm very sorry. I'm out.

A severe dressing down from Hilary Devey as the shell-shocked couple lose a second Dragon.

Their time in the Den looks to be drawing to a close.

What can I say?

It beggars belief that you can't remember basic numbers.

I've got a degree in Maths, believe it or not(!)

-And...

-I can't believe you just said that.

-I know, I know.

-This is really embarrassing. I'm sorry.

-OK, it is difficult working from home all the time.

You do need to get out to get some clarity of thought. That made sense.

But I...I can't invest in you because you just haven't given me enough information.

-Yeah.

-You haven't given me the clarity of a business plan to put money in and get a return.

-So I'm afraid...

-OK.

-..I'm out.

-Thank you, Theo.

OK, the problem is I don't think the concept works. If you think it works, prove it, make a profit

and operate for a couple of years before you start raising money.

But until then I have to say I'm not investing. I have to say where I am and I'm out.

Guys, I think that you forgot that the most important thing about the business is detail.

Sometimes the pressure of the Den can get to people and it's clearly got to you.

-So I'm going to say that I'm out.

-Thank you very much. Thank you.

-Good luck. All the best.

An emotionally-charged pitch, but for Shazia and Yusuf not one with the ending they'd hoped for.

They leave with nothing.

The Den has proved there's an appetite for making money in some unlikely ventures.

Business partners Gwen Bailey, Dr Patrick Handley, Graham Morgan and pet dog Spider

had one to savour for the Dragons. They needed £125,000.

We are Pawsonality, creators of the dog personality test.

It's an exciting new way for owners to find out more about their dog's true personality.

I'm an independent hound who likes to do my own thing. If you want me to behave, you need food and games.

And that's exactly it.

Hilary Devey had high hopes it would finally resolve a long-standing four-legged problem of her own.

I'd like to know why my horse won't move out the stable in the morning until it has a bacon barm cake.

-Your horse eats bacon?

-Yeah. Give him a bacon barm cake with brown sauce and a cup of tea and he comes.

Peter Jones had a more likely scenario for the entrepreneurs to consider.

Do I get personal specifics about how to treat my dog

over a different test that's done by another member of the family?

We encourage each member of the family to take it.

Would it not be very confusing? I've got a few dogs and there's seven of us.

-We'd have about 14 manuals!

-The trio didn't need a test to uncover the personality of the Dragons,

-who all seemed to have investment aversion issues.

-In three months, how much have you managed to gross?

-About £1,700.

-Graham, you have a psychometric test for a dog!

You cannot value it at £1 million. It's crazy.

This I could have been convinced on, but you have completely got the financial offer wrong.

I'm out.

-So far tonight, none of the entrepreneurs have walked away with the Dragons' cash.

-Oh, sausages!

To find out how Vicki and Georgia felt about coming so close, press the red button after the programme.

When planning their pitch, entrepreneurs have a choice -

do they adopt a serious, formal delivery or go all out and bring a bit of spectacle to the Den?

Our next entrepreneur, 32-year-old Andy Robertson, is firmly in the second camp.

Hello.

Phew!

Hello.

My name's Andy, but everyone calls me Sandy because of what I do.

I'm here today to ask for £100,000 for 10% of my company, Dirty Beach.

Six years ago, I was homeless in London

and I made a sand sculpture just for fun on the Thames. And someone threw a pound at me.

So I kept doing it and it's turned into my full-time job, my career,

I travel round making sculptures. I built an installation for Brad Pitt in the Cannes Film Festival.

I've done some work with Banksy.

I've done all sorts. I've made the world's largest sand sofa with Dexter Fletcher.

So I go round to festivals, events.

We don't make much money. The Isle of Wight Festival paid us £2,500 to go there.

We made £2,500 selling music. But if we sell drinks, food, tea, coffee, sandwiches,

we can make a lot of money at these festivals.

So this is what I'm asking from you today. 100 grand in this...beach company.

I'll have a quick look at this.

-By bringing a bit of the seaside into the Den...

-It really is sand!

..South Londoner Sandy Robertson hopes to catch the Dragons' imagination.

Having spent six years creating sand sculptures for free, he now believes there's money to be made

from the crowds they attract. He needs £100,000 to put his plan into action.

Andy/Sandy... I have three questions for you.

-Yeah.

-Number one. Where did you get your hat?

-This was a present from my girlfriend.

-Can I have a look?

-If it gets windy...

-Does it suit me?

-Very apt. I'd keep it if I was you.

-Yeah, I quite like that. So it's £100,000 for the hat?

-Yes.

-And my time and my company.

-Right. Well, we'll keep that in abeyance for the moment.

Number two. What do you wear under your kilt?

-Em, I don't wear anything under the kilt.

-Really? That's a bit dangerous with sand!

And number three... which part of the business are you actually asking for investment in?

This is the thing. If you have a bar, a lot of the expense is the venue that it is,

but we could run a beach bar and run it from a little shack,

but you can still cater hundreds, thousands. We just expand by building more sofas.

Sandy...

I think what you're suggesting is that you could open a beach bar and save a lot of money

-because instead of buying furniture you would make it from sand.

-Yeah.

This is the draw to the beach bar, yeah.

So pop-up bars at festivals and events and they could be anywhere on the planet where there's an event

or where there's sand or we can put it in if it's not. At Glastonbury,

if we had a beach bar there, it could make a killing.

OK, so you're going to ship sand to Glastonbury, build sand beaches and sell beer?

Yeah.

You cannot be for real, Sandy.

It seems Sandy's business vision isn't shared by an incredulous Duncan Bannatyne.

Can the quirky entrepreneur remain upbeat and convince Theo Paphitis of his sand-sculpting scheme?

Sandy, we're here to make money.

And to invest in people who can show us how they're going to make money,

not if we give them our 100 grand that they're going to go around saying, "Oh, I might do this.

"You know, I did make some money once. I don't know where it went. Hey, cool."

-That's nonsense. Have you got a business plan?

-Yes.

What is the business plan that will make me a return?

I've done a lot of travelling and found some good sites that are perfect for a permanent beach bar.

So Miami would be a great place. And there's a beach bar in St Tropez

-where they count their good days...

-Stop. Let me give you a clue here.

A business plan does consist of some words, but alongside those words there's some numbers, right?

I spoke to a guy who runs a bar at a festival and they turn over 70 grand in the weekend.

I spoke to a guy who is a nuclear physicist!

It doesn't mean I know anything about being a nuclear physicist.

You know what, Andy?

By all means come in here, quirkily dressed,

showing your skills. You're obviously bright, obviously talented.

But - and there's a big but - what you haven't got is a detailed plan

of how you're going to make this money, how we'll get our return and what a great business we'll build.

You haven't done that today.

-It's very disappointing.

-OK.

-So I'm going to wish you luck, but I'm afraid to say I'm out.

Not good for Sandy as his business dream receives short shrift.

Will he fare any better under the scrutiny of Deborah Meaden?

-So how much do you think you value this business at?

-I value it at £1 million.

Yeah.

Now to support a business valued at £1 million, there's got to be some numbers that tell an investor

this is going to be worth putting my cash in because you are going to get a return.

So take one bar. What have you got to do? How much money will it take to do that? How much will you earn?

To set up, I'd like to put about 50, 60 grand into the beach bar

and then we could be turning over five, ten grand a night.

-What kind of margins?

-I think we're talking about... Numbers(!)

I've got them all written down. I do know a lot about bars.

-My parents owned a few pubs in the Midlands, so I grew up in pubs.

-So what are the normal margins

when you're running a bar?

Er...I can't remember off the top of my head.

Sandy, I'll tell you, to get investment you have to have something that I can't do.

You've got that. I can't do that.

But that doesn't make the money. The mechanics of making the money sits around running the bars,

getting the licences, having all of the knowledge about running bars.

That's the bit that makes the money, that gives you your USP. But you don't know how to do it.

-That's because I've never ran a bar in my life.

-That's my point!

-I've worked in bars...

-That's my point.

-Yeah.

-You don't even know what the margins are.

I'm out.

A second Dragon walks away from the deal

and the once-optimistic Sandy is now looking shell-shocked, but three Dragons still remain.

Will Peter Jones see opportunity where his rivals have not?

Sandy, I think they're pretty tough on you. I actually personally think it is an amazing piece of art.

And actually I can see

a hotel, for example, saying,

"For two or three nights, we would like to have somebody come in and sculpt for a gala night

"the most amazing beach sculptures."

-I get that.

-Yeah.

-But the issue is the beach bar will never make money.

Drop it.

You will be far better to keep doing what you're doing because it gives you

what you're good at, but at the same time it gives you an income.

I can't invest because it's not a business at the moment.

-So I'm going to say I'm out, but I'm going to wish you the very best of luck.

-Sandy...

-How old did you say you were?

-32.

-32.

Well, you know, when I was 29 I virtually lived on a beach in the Channel Islands.

I had no money. And I decided that I was going to start making money because I wanted to have children

and children need clothes and food so my whole life changed at 30.

But then I found that I enjoyed business so I kept doing business

and it was great, but the money was a sideline to enjoying the business.

Em, I can see you're enjoying life, but I just can't see you enjoying the business or making money.

-So for that reason I'm out.

-All right.

Sandy, I don't want you to look so dejected because I tell you,

if nothing else, you've made me laugh and brightened my day up.

-That's made me happy.

-But it's not investable,

-so I've got to say I'm out, but don't give up, you know.

-All right, thanks.

So it's all over for Sandy. He dared to dream but these Dragons deal only in reality.

He leaves with nothing.

I came prepared with the business plan and my numbers, but I didn't have the bar numbers in my head.

I should have wrote them down on my hands.

Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the Den included Lancaster-based Nikki Hesford,

who put on a show for the investors.

She wanted £50,000 of the Dragons' cash.

The business was formed after realising there was a need for lingerie clothing, swimwear,

everything for ladies with big boobs.

-Whilst four Dragons did their best to assess Nikki's business...

-What you're saying is

-all the big brands of lingerie are missing the point?

-There's only one brand in the world

manufacturing for big-busted ladies.

So can you give me some insight into the trading figures?

So far we've turned over just short of £30,000.

Nikki, you are desperate to talk to the Dragon to my right.

Entrepreneur be warned. Pitching to such an expert in your field can be a high-risk strategy.

You're obviously incredibly passionate, but why do you think a lot of people stop at DD?

It's obviously the safer market.

You can grade a bra up to DD, the same fabrication.

The minute you go over DD, the cost of manufacturing goes up, your margin gets hit.

It's a totally different bra.

-You're not going to make the sort of numbers that you think. I'm out.

-Thank you, Theo.

Next were business partners Al Campbell and Gerard Dare

who needed £75,000 for their handy, on-board exercise invention.

Combating the risk of DVT in flight,

a work out in just a couple of minutes will ensure good blood flow even while sitting.

As frequent flyers, the multi-millionaires were keen to test their claims.

-Am I doing this right? It don't seem to be doing anything!

-Yeah, that's all it does.

This is just another way to exercise on a plane. It gives you a focus.

-How long were you designing this?

-About five or six years.

-Five or six years?

-On and off.

In the end, it was fitness expert Duncan Bannatyne who had the final word.

OK, I can be very, very kind

or very, very nasty. I'll be nasty first.

It's fantastic. You'll make a fortune.

Or I can be kind and say it's a complete and utter waste of time and money

and, for that reason, I'm out.

Business is all about relationships and here in the Den we've seen quite a few of a personal kind -

husbands and wives trying to start a business together.

So let's see how the next couple fare. Geoff and Colette Bell.

-Hi, Dragons. My name is Geoff Bell.

-Hi. My name's Colette Bell.

Today we're here to ask for £75,000 for a 15% investment

in our business, Shampooheads.

Together, Geoff and I have three children, Annie, Rosie and Robert.

And it is really down to the fact that, em...

-(Shampoo.)

-..Shampooheads as a brand, er...

..was, em, developed by us

with regard to our children as the main focus of the brand.

Our market research shows us that children from the age of 2 can instantly recognise characters

and it plays a place in their minds.

And we think bath time is the time for children and parents to talk.

At present, we are registered within the UK. We also have the brand registered in Europe

and the United States of America. We also own all the domain names for the characters and Shampooheads.

We believe we have a fantastic brand, a fantastic product and that we're a great team.

We'll be happy to take any questions.

A few nerves on show from Tyneside couple Geoff and Colette Bell,

but they hope the Dragons will see potential in their character-based shampoo range for children

and invest £75,000. They're offering 15% in return.

Hilary Devey looks impressed.

-Brilliant idea. Love it.

-Thank you.

-You know, I look back to when my son was a baby.

-It was terrible to try to get him in the bath.

-Yeah, yeah.

-That's...

So I've got Awesome Annie here. What's she like?

She's our daughter, but she's the role model. The one everyone looks up to, confident, the eldest child.

She takes after her mum.

Is there a specific reason why the product can only be used at age 2?

-Em...

-The brand is actually to be for children from age 2 to 6.

Only because the pump is a child-friendly pump, so it's a measured amount

-to create the independence.

-But not leaving a two-year-old in the bath?

-Not at all, no.

It's been all tested in other areas like dermatologically, tear-free.

-So it is clinically-approved?

-Yes. We paid a lot of money to have that done.

-We've left no stone unturned.

-Tell me where you're at, at the moment?

-We've got 41,000 units for the UK's leading chemist chain

in 483 stores across the UK.

-Which stores?

-It's Boots.

-Boots. So Boots have already

-given you an order for 41,000 units?

-Yeah.

The backing of a high street multiple is bound to go down well with any cash-hungry investor.

Now retail magnate Theo Paphitis wants to drill down further into the detail of that deal.

-So there's 41,000 units on the way to their head office now to be distributed?

-Yeah.

-How much is the cost price per unit?

-The brand itself, it retails at £2.99.

-Yeah.

-It costs us to manufacture, on average, about 65p per unit.

-Yeah.

-And we make 45p off each unit.

-Approximately.

-So you're selling it to them for £1.10?

-£1.10.

And they've given us a promotional site within the store to launch it as a new product.

-Have you got a gondola end?

-A mid-size gondola.

-Brilliant.

-Did you have to pay them for that?

-No.

-They gave you that free? For how many weeks?

-Four.

-Four.

-Wow.

-We know how much that's worth.

-A lot. They obviously believe in the product.

-They're really excited about this.

-OK, so have they given you a forecast?

-They say they're going to be selling two per week per store.

-So that's 1,000 a week.

-Yeah.

-OK, thank you.

-Colette, Geoff, hi.

-Hi, Deborah.

So far, amazing. So why do you need the cash?

We haven't got a huge cash flow. We built this business from scratch with any spare cash we've had

-and we've also borrowed money from my father.

-So how much cash have you used so far?

Up to now about £60,000.

And do you have any loans other than from your father?

We've kind of exhausted everything that we can do from the people that we know.

We know you could help us take this as far as we want it to go.

We love it, we really believe in it.

It's really our dream to create the world's most successful children's haircare brand.

Geoff and Colette have yet to put a foot wrong in the Den

and the Dragons are clearly enthralled. What's their background? Duncan Bannatyne wants to know.

-Geoff, Colette, is this your first business?

-Yeah.

-What did you do before?

-I've worked in professional haircare for 14 years.

-For whom?

L'Oreal Professional for a number of years. And more recently the Mascolo Group, who own Toni and Guy's.

I have just handed my notice in because this is what I believe in.

Hmm. OK.

-You've done extremely well.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

I've got a funny feeling you might end up with five offers in a minute.

The couple seem to have silenced the rival investors.

No Dragon is prepared to break cover.

Right.

What would you like?

If you had a magic wand, you come into the Den, you've done the painful bit,

-what would you like to come out of this now?

-We want the right investor to be as passionate as we are.

Make it the best it can be.

So who would you like your investment from?

That's a question I'd ask you. Who thinks they can bring the most to supporting our business and brand?

I think that the product is fantastic.

Having kids is quite an interesting thing. I've got five kids.

I've got two children in the age bracket of the brand,

so I think that plays a part.

-DUNCAN:

-I think what you've done is great.

I do have a product that I sell which is not children's,

-but online I do sell shampoos and things like that.

-OK.

In a remarkable turnaround, it's now the Dragons who are pitching to the entrepreneurs.

I think your product's great, but, moreover, you two are great.

-I know I could work with you, I know I could add value.

-Thank you.

But Geoff and Colette have yet to actually receive an offer.

-THEO:

-Right, guys. Moment of truth.

You've got five Dragons all interested. You're very investable. I don't think anyone would argue.

If you'd like to work with one of us, speak now.

-Do you mind if we go to the back for a moment just to discuss it?

-No, do that.

Right. What are we going to do?

(I think we should go with...

(But I like Peter as well. He's a dad.

(Do you think that's the right decision?

(All right, OK.)

Thank you, everyone, for listening today. We're really pleased that you like what we've done.

It's amazing to us that you do because, obviously, you're the experts.

We'd like to ask for two Dragons if that's OK.

Obviously, that would be up to yourselves.

So we would like to ask for Theo...

..and Hilary, if you would be able to somehow come to an agreement together.

I-I don't have any issue

-in backing you two.

-OK.

I'd be quite happy

to offer you the £75,000

for 15%, on my own.

OK.

And I'd also share it with Hilary,

but I'm going to be wanting 10%.

OK.

Thank you.

I would be happy to go for the 20%, sharing 10% each with Theo and myself,

for the full 75K.

Yeah?

-Yeah.

-We'll gladly accept.

-Yeah, we'll gladly accept.

-It's a deal!

Geoff and Colette have done it. It was a somewhat unorthodox negotiation,

but it resulted in getting two well-connected Dragons on-board.

-Elated!

-Yeah, excited.

We thought they might offer, but because no one had offered,

we kind of felt it was a strange situation. "Who do you want?"

-Well done, you.

-Well done, you.

We quite often see entrepreneurs in the Den suffering from what I call Shaky Start syndrome,

but some of the most entertaining pitches are those where a nervous beginning has a triumphant end

and so it was with Geoff and Colette who turned things round so emphatically,

they actually got to pick any Dragon they wanted.

For more on why the Dragons were so impressed with them, hit the red button now

to access behind the scenes interviews with Hilary and Theo. Goodbye.

Next week in the Den:

If I've been harsh and you have been listening, it's a great exercise.

It's absolutely stupid.

I'm not going to waste my words.

This looks...such a great business.

KIOSK PLAYS "Wedding March"

I can't say I've stood over anybody and watched them saw wood.

What is going on?! I have never, ever seen... What have you done?!

Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd