Episode 6 Dragons' Den

These are the Dragons.

Wealthy, well-connected...

..innovative...

and influential.

Each week, they make or break the dreams

of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

I think it's probably one of the saddest sights I've ever seen.

We're selling three dolls a week.

-Three dolls a week?

-Yes.

-Three dolls a WEEK?!

Do you really, really want to take this money off anybody in this room?

It's completely and absolutely bonkers.

I don't know why we've spent so much time on it.

I think I'd rather do community service than invest in this.

Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...

..telecoms giant Peter Jones...

..and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne

have between them struck deals

worth more than £7 million in the Den.

But ready to fight for the next shrewd investment

is the creator of her own world-renowned

interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen,

and cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.

The multi-millionaires will give each entrepreneur

just three minutes to pitch their idea

and then interrogate them on every aspect of their business.

To face them takes nerve and vision.

So who will leave with the Dragons' money?

Welcome to Dragons' Den,

where every week budding entrepreneurs

pitch their business ideas

to five self-made tycoons,

who have to decide where to invest their money.

First to face the Dragons are two soft-drink entrepreneurs,

John McFarlane and Georgie Rodwell.

They are trying to jostle their way

into what is a very crowded market.

THEY WHISPER

Hello, Dragons. My name is John McFarlane.

With me today is my business partner, Georgie Rodwell.

We are here today to introduce you to Norfolk Cordial.

We are seeking a £50,000 investment

in return for a 25% stake in the business.

Norfolk Cordial began in the summer of 2010,

when we identified a need

for a more adult-orientated soft drink within the on-trade sector.

Last year, we won the best drink producer award

at Norfolk's largest agricultural show.

And we are proud to supply establishments

such as Raymond Blanc's two-Michelin-starred Le Manoir.

And we are the only UK cordial company

to supply the food hall of Fortnum & Mason.

Last year, the UK soft drink industry was worth £9.7 billion

and a massive 22% of this market came from dilutables.

With the increase in public awareness

of the negative effects of excessive alcohol consumption,

combined with the stringent enforcement of the drink-driving laws,

we can only see an increase in demand for products such as Norfolk Cordial.

We thank you for your time.

We'd like to take this opportunity to invite you up to our bar for a drink,

and then we're happy to answer any questions you may have.

-DUNCAN:

-Could I have a vodka in mine?

LAUGHTER

They do go very well with vodka, all of them.

A smooth and assured pitch from the Norfolk couple.

They're looking for £50,000 for 25% equity

in their high-end cordial business.

Flavour-wise, we do raspberry.

This is a redcurrant and grapefruit. Strawberry and lime,

rhubarb, orange and ginger and wild elderflower.

-I've got raspberry.

-Yes.

The first to question the East Anglian entrepreneurs

is Piers Linney.

-Very nice.

-Thank you.

Why did you get into this business

and how have you got to where you are?

How we got into it was Georgie made elderflower cordial like people do at home.

She was selling it to the pub she worked at when I met her.

It was doing very well,

and when I looked at the turnover that one little pub in the middle of Norfolk could do with a syrup,

I saw there was a gap in the market for something that was geared towards that sort of market sector.

So did cordial bring you together?

In some ways, yes!

-Not often you can say that.

-Exactly.

At the time, I was pretty much homeless, living in a static caravan.

I borrowed £5,000.

With that money I bought the equipment and the raw materials required to get the business started.

I probably made in the region of around 3,000 bottles of elderflower that summer

and set off trying to sell them once I'd made them to all the pubs in Norfolk.

Or as many as I could convince to purchase them.

So, who would you say your competitors are?

What we've done is chosen to go into the on-trade sector.

You keep using this term "on-trade". What do you mean, "on-trade"?

Within the hospitality sector more than a retail product.

Things like Coca-Cola and Fanta, the syrup that comes out of a post-mix.

But we actually do come in cheaper than a serving of Coke.

The point of difference is the fact

that we are catering for a more sophisticated adult palate.

When you have a person who's not drinking,

whether they don't drink alcohol or they're driving,

their choices are Coke from the gun or what's in the fridge.

Generally, they're quite high-sugar, children-orientated drinks.

So we also see growth very much into a spa environment,

where ladies are concerned about the amount of sugar they take,

so it appeals to them.

You'd sell that in spas, then?

We've just taken on Ragdale Hall spa

and then we have a small spa in...

I know somebody that's got spas.

I operate 34 spas,

and the ladies come in and drink red wine.

You know, they're not really looking for a non-alcoholic, non-sugar drink.

Is that because you don't offer a good enough one?

LAUGHTER

-PETER:

-Good. Do I like you!

Sorry.

Duncan Bannatyne's scepticism is coolly deflected

by a confident Georgie.

But does Deborah Meaden share her vision for the future of the product?

When you say you're competing against Coke, I completely get that,

because I actually don't drink. Very, very rarely now.

Did. Don't any more.

Um...and actually,

it's dull as ditchwater when you go out,

because you just get the same old same old.

I end up drinking Diet Coke and I don't like Diet Coke!

Now, here's the bad news.

It's OK.

Can I just ask everyone else, what do you think of your cordials?

-DUNCAN:

-I think it's not terrific, the taste, actually.

-DEBORAH:

-What do you think, Piers?

To me, it seems to be quite safe.

There's nothing there in terms of... I know what raspberry tastes like, thank you very much.

I've tasted elderflower. But there's a place for being braver in terms of your flavours in your range.

To begin with, we needed to play it safe in order to get our product out there.

And we know we can push the boundary. We've pushed it to a certain extent,

because you don't get a strawberry and lime.

Generally, what we find is, with the majority order being on elderflower to begin with,

elderflower starts to fall away and our other flavours start to take over on the orders.

A persuasive response to criticism of their range.

But will Duncan Bannatyne find their grasp of the company's figures just as convincing?

So what's your projections going forward? Just turnover and net profit.

This year to March 2014,

our projected turnover is £150,000,

with a net profit of £30,000.

The following year, the turnover is £500,000,

with a net profit of £90,000.

And the following year, a turnover of £2 million,

with a net profit of £500,000.

And we also see growth very much into the Middle Eastern market as well,

where obviously they're looking for a quality soft drink product.

We've just had an order now from Dean & DeLuca for Kuwait and Qatar.

First order was 24 cases.

-Have you filled the order?

-It's going out next week.

-Wow.

-KELLY:

-That's a good order. It's a good brand.

But you're in Fortnum's. Who do you sit next to in Fortnum's on the shelf?

We sit next to ready-to-drink juices.

We are the only cordial company in the food hall.

These projections would be phenomenal...

if you could convince me

that they're true.

But how are you going to achieve those figures?

Basically by becoming the market leader

in on-trade soft drink provision.

I've gone into the drinks business and it is incredibly competitive.

We come up against serious competition.

For example, we wanted to introduce a syrup product

and the competitors just really said,

"The minute they go into that marketplace,

"we'll drop our costs by half.

"We'll take our margin away from our distributor."

And all of a sudden, you can't get in.

I think you're really up against it,

because for this business to succeed,

I think you need several hundred thousand pounds.

So I'm going to have to say I'm out.

A sceptical Peter Jones walks away from a deal.

And now Deborah Meaden is ready to have her say.

Competition doesn't often worry me,

but this is a market that can and does respond very quickly,

and the way they respond is exactly as Peter says,

which is, "If you stock that product, I'm going to do a buy-one-get-one-free on my product."

And there are some big players out there who completely dominate that marketplace.

So I'm sorry, guys, but I won't be investing and I'm out.

The cordial couple are dealt a blow

as two Dragons make an abrupt exit.

Piers Linney is the next to show his hand.

But he has some unanswered questions about the small print of their company structure.

Any other shareholders, or just you two?

-There are six other shareholders in the business.

-And who are they?

One of them is Galton Blackiston, the Michelin-starred chef in Norfolk.

The other two couples are friends of his.

OK, and how much have they invested?

They have invested £45,000.

And what percentage did they get for that?

They currently have 48%.

-For £45,000?

-Correct.

And they're willing to dilute their percentage shareholding

in accordance to any agreement that's made in the Den today.

A late and surprising development in the Den,

as the entrepreneurs reveal they've already given away

nearly half of their company to other investors.

Will this whet or kill the Dragons' appetite to jump on board?

Now, you said the investors would dilute.

Did you mean you'd all dilute, you included? Or just them?

-No, we are all happy to dilute our shareholding as necessary.

-OK.

Right. You would dilute to the same amount?

-Yes.

-Yes.

-And the same percentage-wise?

That's the problem. I mean, if I offered you £50,000 for 30%...

your shareholding would come down to about 36%.

You're not going to work for nothing.

And work 80 hours a week in a company where you own 36%,

the way you would when it's your baby and you're building it up and you own 100%.

We do already.

Yeah, but you have 52%.

I disagree, in the sense that I feel that 36% of something large

is worth potentially more than something we have 52% or 100%...

Yeah, but when you've done an 80-hour week

and you've had a bad week and things haven't gone so well,

you're going to think, "Why did I bring that Dragon in? He hasn't actually achieved anything yet.

"We've got these other investors, and we're doing all the work.

"And they haven't actually contributed anything."

Because sometimes it doesn't work and sometimes it takes a bit of time.

If it was me, I wouldn't take any money off anybody right now.

Do you really, really want to take this money off anybody in this room?

An unprecedented turn of events,

as Piers Linney advises the entrepreneurs

to think twice about taking any further investment.

Will Kelly Hoppen agree?

I think you sell a good story.

It tastes great.

Um...but my advice to you would be to grow it yourselves.

You know? Because to give away all these different percentages,

it's all a mess.

I really think that it's not for me, so I'm sorry, I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

I think you've done a fantastic, professional presentation.

You've come in here, you know the numbers, you know your brand.

I don't think you've slipped up once. It's quite amazing.

It's fantastic. But I still can't get over that structural issue.

So...

for that reason, I'm out.

Thank you.

I take back my suggestion you wouldn't be fully enthused. I think you would be, both of you.

I hope you do turn over £2 million in three years' time

and have a £500,000 profit, because if you do, I think one of the big boys will just buy you up.

And you walk away into the sunset with loads and loads of money.

And we'll all go off crying because we never got any of it.

But I can't invest in it,

because I don't think the amount is big enough.

For that reason, I've got to say, very, very reluctantly, because I'd love to work with you...

I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Thank you very much.

The Dragons may have had a taste for Norfolk Cordial,

but the complicated share structure of the business

ultimately undermined any deal.

John and Georgie head home without an investment.

I thought that maybe we would get somewhere,

but they haven't invested

and we really hope to prove them wrong.

In the UK, over 40 million of us now use a tablet or smartphone,

helping fuel a global boom in apps,

a market worth billions of pounds a year.

Hi, Dragons. We're the founders of Swarmly.

Today we're looking for £120,000 for 30% of our company.

This Glaswegian pair, David McNabb and Marco De Nichilo,

have created a mobile phone app

which allows you to find the most popular places to be

at any time of the day or night.

So, this is the application.

Essentially what you see is a map and all these little dots on the map

are where people are congregating right now, this instant.

These dots are people as they move about from venue to venue

and show it all in real time all across the globe.

You can actually tell before you even leave the house - is the gym busy?

Is the cinema busy? Real-time sat-nav for people.

It was a concept the Dragons struggled to get their heads around.

So if I go out one evening and I think,

"I'll go to that bar - it's full of Swarmly people"

and I don't like them, then there's no point, is there?

No-one wants a swarm if I'm going down to B&Q to buy a bolt-cutter.

And was this app less of a social network,

more of an antisocial network?

I have to say, I am so against what you're actually doing.

Call me old-fashioned, but if I want to go and meet some friends,

I'm going to pick up the phone and we're going to have a conversation

about where we're going to go and eat dinner or whatever.

It's an app for people who don't talk to anybody, have no friends...

-DUNCAN:

-I want one!

For Peter Jones, the app's flaw was far more fundamental.

You've invented a pen but you've forgotten the ink.

-How's that?

-It's irrelevant.

-I don't necessarily think that's the case.

-Think about what you've done.

You need the whole of the population to be even slightly accurate

with your concept. And you're never going to get that. It's impossible.

Well, yeah.

And there wasn't much confidence in the projected sales figures either.

-So, net profit?

-In Year 1, we think negative 111,000.

In Year 2, negative 78, and Year 3, 118.

So, by the end of Year 3,

we've still got a cumulative loss.

-At that point, yes.

-At that point.

At what point does an investor

start to be in the slightest bit interested?

Unfortunately for the IT pair,

the Dragons saw it as an unappetising idea,

with a cash-hungry, profit-poor business plan

and it meant rejection from the Den.

It's completely and absolutely bonkers.

I don't know why we've spent so much time on it.

For me, I don't like the concept at all.

Anybody that puts money into this is going to lose every penny. It's a fact.

I'm not interested. I'm out.

So the Dragons didn't exactly swarm around Swarmly.

But if it's tricky to come up with a bright idea

in the young, fast-growing app sector,

think how hard it can be to come up with something new

in an industry that's been around for ever.

That's what our next entrepreneurs are trying to do.

Mother and son Tracey and Kieran Cannon.

My name's Kieran Cannon.

I'm here with my business partner and my mum, Tracey.

Together we have brought along our company, My Lookalike Doll.

First of all, the very realistic aim and ambition for My Lookalike Doll

is to one day become the market-leading doll product worldwide.

My Lookalike Doll is every little girl's dream.

Our customers can create the doll to look exactly how they want.

May that be to resemble the little girl,

her favourite celebrity

or even an imaginary friend.

We also offer a range of fantastic matching clothing and accessories

for the young girl to dress the same as her lookalike best friend.

At the moment, our customers can enjoy creating their Lookalike Doll

on our recently-launched website.

However, we do aim to stock our products in major high street retailers in the near future.

At the moment, in the UK, Europe and Asia,

there is no other company that offers such a personalised service like we do.

However, there is a company based in America.

It's called American Girl, and fortunately, they do not ship to outside North America.

-Last year, American Girl made an amazing 770 million.

-Wow!

And this is where we see an opportunity for an investor.

Today we are here to pitch for £75,000

in return for 30% of our very prosperous company.

Could the girls come over so I can have a look at their dolls?

An ambitious pitch from Kieran and Tracey Cannon,

who are looking for £75,000

for a 30% stake in their lookalike doll business.

Kelly, we've actually brought one for yourself.

Are you having a laugh?

The same for you, Deborah, but we took this one on your previous haircut!

Could have styled it differently!

Thank you very much.

Kelly Hoppen is the first to question the two entrepreneurs.

I don't know about that!

Presumably you can't sell these in a store,

because they're done to look like somebody that you know.

No, the dolls are already... If you look at the face on the dolls, they're all identical.

So what we have done is we have took across the board

how many eye colours, skin colours, and the dolls are already pre-made and boxed and coded,

so that you know whether it's blonde bob,

red curls, long dark hair, brown eyes.

And they would just be on the shelves.

-Kieran.

-Yes?

If you've got, I'm assuming, about 12 different types of dolls,

-maybe between eight and 12?

-We've actually got 133 different combinations.

-133 different combinations?

-Yes.

So there lies your issue.

Because what you've had to do now is you've had to go very far and wide

to cater for a marketplace to have something available for every child.

The reality is it's impossible to do that

in a retail environment.

I don't really see the issue.

Kieran, Tracey, retail space is very valuable, so every square inch

has got to give them cash back.

They're not going to devote the amount of space

to your doll that's going to be able to offer 133 different options.

A reality check from Deborah Meaden

of the viability of any business in store.

Now Duncan Bannatyne wants to see if their sales figures

have any more promise.

-You said you wanted an investment in your very prosperous company.

-Yes.

So perhaps we're missing something.

And if you explain to me

how prosperous your company is, I might invest in you.

What's the cost value of your stock, the dolls and clothing you have in stock?

All the stock that we have at the warehouse... We've paid £60,000 for the doll orders.

-So you've got the dolls?

-We have all the dolls, yes.

And £20,000 for the clothing.

So you've got £80,000-worth of stock in a warehouse?

Yes.

Why aren't you selling it?

Fast?

I think it's the projections that I see at the moment.

At the moment, we haven't done really any marketing for it at all.

-So you haven't been selling any of these dolls?

-Yes, we're selling three dolls a week.

-Three dolls a week?

-Yes.

-Three dolls a WEEK?!

Well, I'm hoping it will expand from that.

I've got my projections from that.

-DUNCAN:

-Are you running at a loss or are you making money?

We're running at a loss because we've invested so much money into it. We've invested £100,000.

-You've...invested...£100,000?!

-£100,000.

It's not going to be a great business.

It's got so many problems with it.

-Right.

-I can't invest in this, so I've got to say I'm sorry but I'm out.

Duncan Bannatyne walks away from a deal

because of disappointing sales.

And Deborah Meaden wants to understand

how the Glaswegian duo are bankrolling the business.

Where did you get £100,000 from?

Where we got the money was we remortgaged

for £40,000.

I took a redundancy package from my work,

savings and a £20,000 business loan.

And how much are you having to put in to support this activity?

At the moment, I pay £700 a month in.

So that pays the warehouse and the business loan at the moment.

We are cutting back obviously on things in how we live

to support that.

So it's affecting your lives at the moment?

Yes.

A dramatic revelation,

as Tracey and her son Kieran

reveal they're drowning in stock

and have to economise to keep a roof over their heads.

It's very hard sitting in this chair sometimes, because I see almost like a pain

when I've got two seemingly fantastic people

that clearly want to make a business.

Um...

But your concept is flawed.

And all I see now is

a remortgage on a house, I see pain in the future.

I think I need to say stop.

Do not do anything or spend another pound

taking this forward.

Sadly, Tracey and Kieran, I'm out.

Harsh advice from Peter Jones,

as he walks away from an investment.

Will Piers Linney be any more receptive

to the idea of a lookalike doll?

If you keep selling these dolls at the rate you're selling them,

you've got 25 years' worth of stock.

And that would keep me awake at night.

I would liquidate as many as you can, pay off the loan, seriously,

and then think about what you do next.

But it's not something I would invest in,

so I'm afraid I'm out too.

Yeah.

Kieran, Tracey, I have to be brutally honest -

it's just not a viable business

and I can see your excitement, but you're not selling enough.

There's nothing here that's showing me

that this is a business that I would want to put my money into.

I'm afraid it's not for me, so I'm out.

Four Dragons gone. Only one remains.

Will Deborah Meaden be persuaded to give the couple the money they so desperately need?

The plan you walked in here today was take over the world with your dolls.

The plan you should be considering now is, before you do anything else,

turn some of that stock back into cash,

because having remortgaged my house,

having taken out a loan

and sitting with £100,000-worth of cash tied up in stock

would be making me feel very uncomfortable.

Because at three dolls a week,

you're getting no signs at all that you're ever going to get that cash back.

So I'm sorry to be saying I won't be investing, and I'm out.

-Thank you very much.

-Thank you.

Kieran and Tracey Cannon came into the Den

seeking £75,000.

But they leave with nothing.

Hopefully from now, in the next few months from here, the stock will fly out the door

and the Dragons will eat their words!

So far, no investment in the Den.

At what point does an investor

start to be in the slightest bit interested?

But coming up...

It's getting sadder by the minute.

Piers Linney is in knots over a new brand of campus clothing.

I've spotted a design problem.

And an innovative shower pump gets the Peter Jones treatment.

I think I'd rather do community service than invest in this.

It's getting harder and harder to come up with new ideas

for online retail businesses.

So has entrepreneur Manu Bhardwaj come up with one?

He's next to make a proposal to the Dragons.

Hi. My name's Manu Bhardwaj,

and we're here today to ask for a £100,000 investment

for a 35% equity stake in our company.

A few years ago, when I proposed to my girlfriend,

I found the experience of buying an engagement ring very frustrating.

I had a very clear vision of what my perfect engagement ring looked like,

but I was unable to find a ring I could buy off the shelf which was similar enough.

But more frustratingly, I was unable to find a jeweller

that could make the exact ring I wanted within my budget.

Out of this frustration, Hot Pink was born.

Hot Pink is a new breed of jeweller.

We use the latest in 3D technology to design and make our jewellery.

Now, the Hot Pink process starts with an online design consultation.

Just before your consultation, you'll get an email from your personal ring designer.

Your ring designer will work with you

to make your perfect ring into a 3D computer model.

You can change the big things and finesse the little things.

Your ring designer will show you how your ring will look from every angle,

and even how it looks on a hand.

And next to a wedding band.

Hot Pink will then build your ring just for you

as a bespoke, one-off piece of artwork.

Hot Wink...er, Hot Pink

has been trading for 18 months.

So far, we've recorded a turnover of £120,000.

However, £60,000 of that turnover has been accrued in the last four months.

Our average ring sale is £3,000

and our gross margin is 40%.

Thank you for listening, and I'll happily take any questions.

A crystal-clear pitch by the London-based entrepreneur,

who's looking for £100,000

for a 35% stake in his bespoke jewellery design business.

But Manu Bhardwaj's proposition

has stirred up some strong emotions in Kelly Hoppen.

I think it's probably one of the saddest sights I've ever seen.

Because going out and choosing an engagement ring

has got to be something that you want to do together,

and trying on a ring and seeing what it's like on your finger...

It's something that's going to sit on your hand for ever.

There's got to be a better way of doing it.

There is another way we get round this issue.

Some people do want that tangible feeling of having the ring,

so we offer this thing called a proposal service,

which is essentially for guys,

because proposing, for guys, can be quite intimidating.

So the service we offer is, come and see us

and we'll help them design their perfect ring.

Then instead of making it for real in platinum or 18-carat white gold or whatever,

we actually make it in sterling silver and set it with Swarovski stones.

So it looks exactly like the real thing.

The guy will then propose with that ring and tell the partner soon afterwards it's a proposal ring

and they've got the chance to change it.

It's getting sadder by the minute to me, honestly.

If somebody proposed to me with a fake ring...

I would hate that!

I would like to think that if they're going to go out,

first of all, they'd know kind of what I would want,

or to propose without a ring and then say,

"Let's go and do it together."

Out of all the engagement rings we've sold,

40% are guys coming on their own,

and then 60% will come as a couple.

And they actually enjoy the experience of designing a ring

that is just for them and completely bespoke for them.

So are they really sitting down in front of their laptop and saying,

"I love you. I'm going to fire my laptop up and I'm going to design you a ring

"and it's going to be manufactured on some automated lathe in a factory somewhere"?

So...

The quick answer is yes!

If you could give me two seconds to show how it works,

because it's actually very interactive

and you get to choose every single component to the finest level of detail

-and you can tweak any element of it.

-Right.

A lot of people like the romance of that, because it means you can't make the same ring twice.

What happens then? You post it back, it arrives, I get a card through the door because I've gone shopping

and we go and collect it romantically from the post office?

Er, so...

About half our clients will come and visit us to pick it up.

The other half will either take a day off or get it delivered on a day that's convenient.

I just think one of the most romantic days

-in your life is when a man proposes to you.

-Agreed.

And it shouldn't be something that's rushed, sitting in front of a laptop.

You might as well put on your screen that you can choose a wedding dress

and have that sent through the post too.

It's something that a girl needs to try on - the same with a ring.

Manu's online designer jewellery service

is failing to set Kelly Hoppen's heart racing.

Will Deborah Meaden be any more positive?

Funnily enough, whether I think I like it or not, whether I think it's sad or not,

there are a lot of people out there who want bespoke,

but actually haven't got the time to do it.

And I get the market that can't just walk in to the most expensive jeweller and say,

"Money no object, I'll have the thing that I want",

so I get that this will happen online.

So I actually... You don't have to sell me on any of that.

My question is, is it you?

What have you got that is different and outstanding

and allows you to make a claim that everybody considers you to be the best?

OK, so we've sold five times more than our nearest competitor,

and we're number one in terms of selling through this software channel.

-How do you know that?

-We're very close to the software company.

And you're saying there's only one software provider who actually does this?

So, like all software, there's alternatives out there.

The answer's no.

Do you know...? Manu, I started saying I liked this,

-but when it would be really easy to have yes or no answers...

-I'd just rather not lie.

It's much easier to say, "Yes, they are this and this is why I'm better."

-I'm only trying to help you convince me!

-I appreciate that.

And if you resist those questions, it just makes me feel like you're trying to hide stuff.

I don't want you to hide stuff.

-I'm actually trying to do the opposite.

-Well, do that and just say yes or no.

So there are other software providers who can provide this type of software?

Yes, but they're not very good at all.

OK, but you keep making those claims.

If there are other people using other software, you don't know where you sit in that market.

-You don't know if you're the best. You don't know if you're selling more than anybody else.

-OK.

-Do you?

-Er, no.

Manu's pitch hangs in the balance,

but his tangled answers are irritating the Dragons.

And Duncan Bannatyne has something on his mind.

I actually invested in a jewellery business about ten years ago.

And I think most engagement rings, if I remember right,

are bought at 10 o'clock on a Friday night.

We do get peaks in traffic on our site late on Friday and Saturday nights when people are searching.

I don't know if it's because the guy's trying to get his leg over, or what it is.

But they're buying the engagement ring.

But what I also found was, I spent a bit of time in some of the shops

in Hatton Garden, and at the back of the shops,

there was almost always a workshop or a designer and somebody doing some work there.

And they've all got websites like that

and they can adjust rings, and they can do what you're doing.

Maybe your software is a bit better at doing it,

but they've been doing it for years and they have the facility to do it.

There's no extra cost to them to do it.

It's not anything I would want to get involved in, so I'm going to tell you that I'm out.

I get it. I get what you're doing and I'm not knocking what you're doing.

I'm just saying it's not something that I sort of approve of.

I think that it's a special time

and I think today everybody's trying to make everything shorter and quicker,

and some of the greatest moments in our lives

are just getting swept into technology

rather than being in the moment.

-So, good luck with it.

-Thank you.

But it's not something I would invest in, so I'm afraid I'm out.

-I don't want to criticise it.

-I appreciate that.

It's just the level of interest I've got to invest in it isn't there.

-OK.

-So I'm going to say I'm out.

I appreciate your time.

Only two Dragons remain.

Deborah Meaden has so far been receptive to Manu's business model,

but will she invest in him?

I mean, I hear this romantic vision that's being talked about in the Den,

but the truth is, there's something very lovely about saying,

"Yes, we designed it".

That, I very much like.

But...

this is a very, very highly contested arena,

and in that busy marketplace,

I think you're going to find it very difficult

to own a substantial amount

before somebody else spots that you are beginning to make a dent into that marketplace

and then thinks, "Do you know what? I will license that software and we will offer the very same service"

and probably in a better way, simply because they've got the cash to do it.

So I'm afraid I'm out.

Thank you. Do you mind if I...?

No point answering me - he's your last chance!

Do you have any rings with you?

-It's a sample ring. Do you want to have a look at it?

-Yeah, quickly.

Very quickly.

Please enjoy opening!

I just want to see what they look like.

It's nicely done.

This is the most exciting moment, isn't it? Undoing the ribbons. That's lovely!

It's nice.

With each ring as well, you get a little book showing how it was made.

There's actually one in the box.

Go on, then.

Look at that!

-DUNCAN:

-Very sparkly.

You didn't show any of this.

-KELLY:

-You should have done this before.

-Oh, right!

-This is your product. You got carried away with the technology.

-People tend to do that.

-Classic entrepreneurial mistake, unfortunately.

-It is.

It's a pretty ring.

-PETER:

-Very investable business.

Manu, you messed that up, didn't you? You came in...

-KELLY:

-You're not out yet.

You've got it all yourself now. You could take this.

Ooh, see.

You can take it.

It's all yours.

Manu, I think you're a good guy.

I think you do have a business.

It's not for me, though. I'm not going to invest £100,000 in it.

I wish you all the best with it. I think you've got something.

Though it's not for me. Well done, though, but I'm out.

Despite his best efforts to persuade the Dragons

of the merit of his business, a stoical Manu leaves the Den

without the £100,000 he was looking for.

From youth to experience.

Hello, Dragons.

I was looking forward to that moment.

The Den appeals to entrepreneurs of all ages.

This is a unique way of making an instrument which can produce the same sound as a double bass makes.

As you flush the toilet, you can now wash your hands.

That is very hygienical.

One inventor, Alan Wright, a civil engineer,

was looking for £20,000

for a 10% stake in his new shower pump.

It's a little pump which does the job of a pump 20 times bigger.

We have a situation where the pump is off.

Bingo!

We've got a shower.

Clarity is crucial with the Dragons,

especially with an invention.

But the Den struggled with Alan's plan to keep things simple.

Why is your pump one-twentieth of the size of a normal pump?

The pump's got a UK patent, granted last year...

That doesn't make it smaller.

-A patent doesn't make it smaller.

-It does.

It's an intelligent pump.

A pump can't be intelligent unless you've made it intelligent somewhere.

It's all down to physics.

It's intelligent physics.

I find it difficult to invest in something I don't understand

and you're not really giving me a description of how it works.

Right.

It fell to Deborah Meaden to try and make the situation clear.

So your main selling point is you've got a cheaper way of doing the same job as a £250 pump?

Maybe I should have said that earlier! Sorry.

A cheaper version of what's already on the market

or a breakthrough product?

The Dragons were left torn.

I can't decide whether this is ingenious or useless.

This IS ingenious, because the presentation was at the Institute of Physics.

I mean, these guys aren't idiots.

They gave me the prize.

Everybody who fits this

sends me recommendations. They say, "This is unbelievable".

I don't believe you. I don't believe everybody...

Not everybody, no.

-You said everybody. Now you're saying not everybody?

-I'm sorry.

Ultimately, the Dragons failed to be convinced,

perhaps because of Alan's pitch rather than his ingenuity.

This needed quite an organised presentation.

And it's come out in quite a disorganised way.

Before you say anything, can I just...?

Alan, I think I'd rather do community service than invest in this.

I'm out.

OK.

Alan left the Den with only his self-belief.

He thinks we're mad.

We're not always mad when we don't invest.

Some of the big designer names on the high street

started life on a university campus.

And our next on-trend entrepreneurs,

Tom Carson and Chris Rea,

are hoping they can replicate that model

and gather a cult following for their own designer clothes label

amongst the UK's two million university students.

Hello, Dragons. We're Young Ones.

My name's Chris. This is my business partner Tom Carson.

We're here today seeking £75,000

in return for 15% equity in our clothing company.

Young Ones is a new clothing brand

that's rapidly emerging across universities in the UK.

Our core skill is at spotting trends

and bringing students cool products at affordable prices.

We first did this reacting to the onesie trend in 2011,

where we were quickly able to source, manufacture and supply a high-quality onesie

at half the price of our major competitor.

Due to student demand, we then started making custom onesies for sports groups and teams.

With their own custom logos

and their own fabric choices.

And we are now the UK leading custom onesie supplier.

We've developed a network of 15 university brand managers.

They're paid on a commission basis to promote our products.

We hope to grow this over the next three years

in the UK and also the east coast of America in colleges.

We'd really like to emphasise you're not investing in a onesie company.

You're investing in a new, exciting and fresh clothing brand.

As our brand grows, we believe we can be the trendsetters

for all young people in the United Kingdom and globally.

Thank you very much for listening to our pitch.

We'd now like you to check out our products and we would love it

if any of you would be willing to try on the custom onesies we have made for you.

Right(!)

-DUNCAN:

-I so want a onesie.

-PIERS:

-Shall I put it on?

A self-assured pitch from this young Exeter University duo.

They're looking for £75,000

in return for 15% of their student clothing company.

LAUGHTER

I've spotted a design problem!

-KELLY:

-It's perfect, Piers!

Piers Linney seems taken with his onesie,

but will he be at one with their business?

So how much life have the onesies got?

I mean, to me... I've seen onesies. Christmas, they were everywhere.

To me, they seem a bit of a fad.

I think it's fair to say that people believe it could be a fad.

But we believe it's not something that's come into fashion before

and people wear it outside for six months and it goes away again,

because they're trying to make a fashion statement.

It's something that you wear at home, when you're comfy, when you're on your sofa.

In that respect, it's not something that's going to come in and go out of fashion.

I think you're right. I think the onesie will last.

Are you trying to be like the new Aubin & Wills,

that kind of sort of retro, college-type of look?

Yeah, I feel a few years ago, the Jack Wills style was very big on university campuses.

That was the trend at the time.

I feel that's been and gone, along with other brands such as Superdry.

And I feel there's a gap in the market to be that new young brand...

on university campuses.

And I really think we could be that.

The Jack Wills model started exactly as you did,

so it hit all the university campuses.

It didn't spend a fortune on advertising budgets.

It just got people who looked cool in their clothes going around giving away a load of stuff, actually.

Is that your plan, to do the same sort of thing?

Yeah, I think so. I think that we've seen their model

and we've seen it work,

and I think the universities are crying out for the next company to come in and do that.

I think the market's there to bring in a new one.

What makes you think you're designers?

What makes us think we're designers? Um, well,

we're not designers. We're...

I believe what we've been doing to date

is spotting trends that are unaffordable to students and bringing them affordable options.

Also, we're taking items that are around

and taking a slight twist to them.

If you want to stand out in the world of fashion and to become a brand,

you have to have your own brand identity.

And I don't see it as a big business unless you get somebody in

that is physically going to design the brand,

design the look, and have a story attached to the brand.

Yeah, but if you invested, you could become their designer.

Well, I haven't decided yet,

but I'm just saying what you're selling right now is not very appealing.

Everyone that's come into contact with Young Ones has really bought in to our ethos.

This has included celebrity endorsement

from the sports industry, music industry and TV.

Who are they?

Made In Chelsea, Oliver Proudlock.

He was wearing a onesie and Tweeting about that.

In the sports industry, Alex Dowsett, who's a cyclist for Movistar Racing,

who said, "Can you design me a onesie?"

We didn't go out and actively seek these people. They came to us.

A confidently delivered claim

from the onesie boys about their brand's celebrity following.

But has Duncan Bannatyne already spotted a fatal flaw?

I'd be very careful that you don't get challenged with that YO.

By the way.

From somebody who owns everything YO.

YO! Sushi man.

You won't get round Simon Woodroffe's trademark.

Well, we have trademark for the name Young Ones

for a clothing brand.

Yeah, but you're not using Young Ones, you're using YO.

And he has YO and YO! globally.

He owns it.

So you can't put YO

on any of your clothing.

And once you start to scale,

he'll close it. You haven't created a brand.

I think you've got a problem with YO as it is,

so I'm going to say I'm out.

An abrupt exit from Peter Jones.

But with the duo's sales so far ignored,

Kelly Hoppen wants to drill down into their financial performance.

How much money have you made so far?

So far, our first year of trading was last year

and we had revenue of £96,000,

with a net profit of £36,000.

Quarter 1 of this year up to now,

we've had revenue of £76,000,

with a net profit of £34,000.

What were you selling these at?

The onesies are RRP at £59.99.

And what do they cost you?

They cost us £16 per unit.

-£16. And you're selling them online?

-Yes.

And do you have any overheads?

-You don't have a warehouse or an office or...?

-No.

-No.

-You work from home?

-Yes.

-So there's no retail costs anywhere, no shop or anything?

-No.

-This is a partnership?

-Yes.

So if you got an investment,

you would put all the assets into the company?

-Yes.

-What else have you got that's going into the company? Have you got stock, is there money in the bank?

So we've got £40,000 cash in the bank.

We've got £10,000-worth of debtors.

We've got stock of £13,000

and we've got another £5,500-worth of fabric.

So you've got £68,000-worth of things to transfer into the company.

An ace or two up the sleeves of Tom and Chris,

with a relatively healthy balance sheet.

But is there something troubling Deborah Meaden?

I think there's a conflict with having a Dragon on board.

There's something about the struggling, you know,

"We're students and we're going to get out there" and there's something very cool about that.

The minute you've got somebody high-profile

who has got all of the cash to make it happen,

you stop becoming the very thing

that is making you successful at the moment.

Without your investment, it makes it very difficult

for us to go into these universities and actually have a presence.

So you're going to give that presence.

But with the cash comes the Dragon.

You are something different the day after you've taken that investment.

But an investment is what the two students need.

So will Kelly Hoppen, the Dragon with the credentials to add real value to a fashion brand,

buy in to the business?

I think that if you want to build this into a proper brand,

which I get the feeling you're very driven, you two, and that's what you'd want,

I think you need to sit down and regroup and decide how you're going to do that.

I think, you know, you can get inspiration from other people,

but I think you have to come up with your own look and feel.

It's not something that I would invest in,

but I do wish you luck. So I'm afraid I'm out.

I really like you guys.

I think we'll probably see you again, maybe here, even.

I think you're entrepreneurs at heart.

I'm not sure this is a business to invest £75,000 in,

if I'm really honest.

Especially at your valuation.

It's quite a big valuation for a start-up.

Best of luck to you, but I'm out.

Three Dragons out and two remain.

Duncan Bannatyne has been concerned over the copyright,

but impressed by the balance sheet.

But it appears he's come to a decision.

Well, you know, I think there are a few problems and issues to iron out,

but that doesn't make it totally uninvestable.

So I'm going to make you an offer.

OK, because I believe in the two of you.

So, I'm going to offer you all of the money, £75,000.

But I want 40% of the company.

Um...

How flexible is your offer? Would you consider dropping to 30?

No, I think I've fully valued the risk,

and it's about 50/50 whether or not I'll enhance or destroy the brand

by wearing a onesie.

Um...

Would you consider, after you get your investment back,

sliding the scale slightly down?

No.

I want 40%.

I think it's a good offer.

OK. Er...

Yeah.

Um...

Deborah?

You guys are good.

Which tells me that really the talent lies in the two of you,

not necessarily within... that product.

And I don't have the same vision on the size and the scale.

So I'm afraid I'm about to say those two words.

Regretfully...

I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

Um...

Can we have a quick time to have a little discussion between us?

Yeah. Go to the back of the room, have a little chat.

Thank you.

(This is exactly what your dad said not to do.)

THEY WHISPER

(But say he does say no, what do we do then?)

NERVOUS WHISPERING CONTINUES

Um, Duncan,

thank you very much for your offer.

Um...

(Will your dad be all right?)

-Yeah, we'd like to take your offer.

-I thought you would.

-Well done.

-Thank you very much.

-Great decision.

-Cheers.

-Look forward to it.

Fantastic.

Whatever Chris's dad might think of their negotiation skills,

a delighted Chris and Tom

exit the Den with all the money they asked for.

Oh, God!

That's mad!

-PETER:

-It's going to be tough.

If anyone can do it, Mr Bannatyne can do it.

The investment of the year there. Yeah, really.

When we spoke to my dad the night before, he said,

"Whatever you do, son, don't go over 30%".

-It was ringing in my ears.

-I remember this conversation in his living room last night.

Him saying, "Guys, don't take 40%".

Yeah, I'm pretty nervous about calling him.

I'm going to have to...

I'll just say that we got really... We did it for 15%!

So, Chris and Tom won an investment from Duncan Bannatyne,

who called it his deal of the year.

If they can make their business fly,

maybe they can set a trend amongst students.

A good way to pay off the fees.

But that brings proceedings in the Den to a close for another series.

Our successful entrepreneurs now get down to business

and the Den will get back to business before long.

Goodbye.

This is the easiest decision not to invest I think I've ever made on Dragons' Den.

I'm going to make you an offer.

Sorry. It's...

I can't believe this.

Unless you're willing to call whoever you work for and resign, it doesn't work.

You said you needed the money. I've offered you the money.

I'm afraid we won't be able to accept that offer.

I think I could really help build this business for you.

-We're going to go with Piers and Kelly.

-Yes!

Yeeee-haaaa!

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