Episode 9 Dragons' Den

These are the Dragons.

Wealthy...

well-connected...

innovative...

and influential.

Each week, they make or break

the dreams of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

Tell me what the numbers are and I'll tell you if they're modest.

-Uh, about 395.

-Sorry, you're looking at your hand!

No! No, that's a tattoo, that is!

I'm the type of guy that would go for something like this...

..cos I think you're onto something.

There's two things that have been discussed that wind me up.

"You know, this is the way it's done and that's the way the market is..."

It's just nonsense.

With all the PR that you've had,

I would have thought that you would have had a much more

successful business by now.

Calm down. Settle.

Leisure and marketing expert Deborah Meaden...

telecoms giant Peter Jones...

and hotel and health club owner Duncan Bannatyne,

have, between them, struck deals

worth more than £7 million in the Den.

But, ready to fight for the next shrewd investment is the creator of

her own world-renowned interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen.

And cloud computing pioneer Piers Linney.

The multi-millionaires will give each entrepreneur just three minutes

to pitch their idea and then interrogate them

on every aspect of their business.

To face them takes nerve and vision.

So, who will leave with the Dragons' money?

Welcome to Dragons' Den, where five self-made millionaires decide

whether to invest in the business dreams

of promising entrepreneurs.

Now, Banksy might be the only graffiti artist that you or I

have heard of, but, our first entrepreneur David Brown

is convinced there's real money to be made by bringing

urban street art right into our homes.

Right. My name's David Brown.

Uh...I'm here to ask for £70,000 investment for my brand

and business idea, Graffiti Artist.

So, I know it's a little bit weird,

but if you wouldn't mind closing your eyes and watch that money as well.

Yeah, I'd stash it, mate. Two minutes, yeah. You ready?

HE SIGHS

HE SHAKES CAN There you go, mate.

So, what this is, is my product, stick 'em ups.

So, it's a piece of graffiti art which has been

generated from a computer.

Some of the investment that I'm asking for is towards an app

and a computer programme

so that you could put your name or your kids' name

or your kids can put their name into a programme

and then they can manipulate it and colour it however they want

and then they can order it and get it printed out.

And what it is, like, it's using my alphabets at the moment,

but what I hope to do is maybe use alphabets

and artwork from other graffiti artists who haven't been as lucky as me,

haven't had the chance to, you know, be able to sell it to

the masses - hopefully.

That's the feel-good factor about graffiti artists as well,

so it's my idea of giving something back.

So, hopefully, you can help that happen by giving me some money.

Cheers! Thank you.

A charismatic pitch from the Birmingham-based entrepreneur.

David's looking for a £70,000 investment for his

online design-at-home graffiti art business.

But, despite his charm, he's missed something out.

Um, you asked for £70,000. What was the percentage you...?

Um, to get it back over the three years, with 20%...

I can't remember what the word is. Mark up, or whatever.

Um, I mean, I think it's a great idea.

I mean, wallpaper is a huge industry today.

I have wallpaper, it's risen over the last 15 years uncontrollably,

but, the idea of graffiti...

I just don't... I don't know how marketable it is.

Well, the sort of target, I think,

for this is like from about seven up until about 13 or 14.

Kids seeing their beds, you know, like, "Oh, I want a Spider-Man room.

"I want a Hulk bedroom. I want a Hello Kitty bedroom," or something.

Now, there's a chance that they could have a graffiti art bedroom.

I totally get it and I've actually employed graffiti artists to

do graffiti in kids' bedrooms.

I mean, I know that kids love it.

70 grand and we can do it, man, I'm telling you.

There may be untapped demand for graffiti wallpaper.

But Piers Linney's unconvinced this entrepreneur can scale up

his skills to the mass market.

David, to me, what you've put on the wall there is still quite artistic.

You've done this, you can see your creative juices flowing there,

but to replicate that to an app as you know is very difficult,

so, if I was to try and create something for my daughter's

wall, what would it look like?

-And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't look anything like that.

-No, it's...

It'd probably look like my daughter did it.

Yeah, I can see your point, definitely.

Like, uh, it's not as hard as you think.

I mean, you'd be surprised at how...

people...if you sit down and do it, especially on a tablet,

that you can sit down and take your time and mess about with it.

So, there's no-one at your end designing it, no-one employed,

-no-one involved, and they do it themselves?

-Yeah.

-That's really what

-you're trying to do?

-Exactly what I'm after, yeah.

David's style might be unorthodox,

but so far his idea is standing up to scrutiny.

But Duncan Bannatyne still wants to know how urban art can be

turned into pounds, shillings and pence.

-Once they've designed it, say something that size...

-Yeah.

-What does it cost me?

-Yeah, £99.

-Just for something that size?

So, this is a lot of money, £70,000. How do you intend to pay that back

or give the investor a return?

Uh, yeah, by selling loads of these and doing the brand as well,

cos my sort of figures that I've got, um, are quite modest as well.

Whether...I don't know. Modest-ish, anyway. Um, but, like, they're not...

Tell me what the numbers are and I'll tell you if they're modest.

Uh...uh...

I mean, gross profit, first year, I mean,

it makes a loss of ten grand in the first year.

But, on the second one, looking at gross profit of about 237

-and then, like, with a...

-What do you mean, 237?

-Sorry, you're looking at your hand!

-No, no, that's a tattoo!

You have definitely got it tattooed on your hand!

-What's the chance of that!

-Is it £2.37? £23.70?

-237,000.

-237,000?!

-Yeah, yeah.

-In the second year from a £10,000 loss?

-That's turnover sort of thing.

-Turnover?!

-Yeah.

-So, remind us - 10, is that a turnover or profit?

No, no, no...the turnover...the gross profit is about £71,000

-and then a minus 10...

-OK, so, in the first year, 71K and you lose 10,000.

-Yeah.

-In the second year, your turnover's £237,000.

-Yeah.

-How much do you make?

-Uh, 37.

-37,000.

-Yeah.

-And in the third year?

About 395.

Turnover.

-Uh...

-Do you want to just come over here with your arm

and show Duncan what you've got tattooed on it?!

Then 219,000.

Huh! So, you're going to increase your turnover on the third year by

100,000 and increase your profit by 180,000 or 190,000.

Yeah, cos it's not just the stick 'em ups that I'm doing, I'm going to...

I think what I need to do is give you a job as my finance director.

You're going to make a lot of money!

THEY LAUGH

-David.

-Yeah.

-Do you know who I am?

-Yeah.

Peter someone...

DUNCAN ROARS WITH LAUGHTER

-That's good.

-Hold on, I've got it written down.

Yeah, Peter Jones, yeah, how are you, mate?

I'm very good, David, thank you. Um...

..just going into the detail, you said earlier that

what's really important to you is about giving back.

-What do you think's really important to me?

-Getting back.

-So, if I gave you £70,000...

-Yeah.

..if your most fundamental thing in your life is to prove

that you can help others and give it back...

What use is that to me to finance this philanthropic little vision

that you've got of your life to make yourself feel better?

Well, you're invested...I don't want it as a gift or anything like that,

but honestly, I mean, we can make a difference and do it in a good way

and still make money out of it, but I didn't want to come in here, first of

all and say, "I'm going to make you a load of money."

-That'd be a bit rude, so...

-It doesn't sound rude to me.

Trust me, it's not rude. It's not rude, that's exactly what we want.

No, it is. I get your point though.

Peter Jones is showing patience with the entrepreneur

and his social conscience.

But Deborah Meaden wants to refocus the pitch back onto business.

I want to get serious, because you're very charming,

I have to tell you, and, when you deliver, you're very likeable.

What I'm not getting is a business proposition at all and I'm about

to lose my interest unless you can deliver that to me really quickly.

Yeah.

I mean, um, it's...the exciting bit is being able to, um...

..uh, empower other artists who can't...you know, who struggle,

and don't want to waste that talent that they've got.

Trying to put them on the right track

so they keep away from illegal stuff...

David, that's lovely, but that's not the business proposition.

Yeah, I understand, yeah, definitely.

I mean, I'm confident that there's enough people out there,

young people or old people...

You can be confident, but you've got to make me confident.

In the Den, it's your job, David,

and I'm saying this cos it's important that you get this right,

otherwise you'll walk out of here certainly without

an investment from me.

Now, right now I see a lovely guy with a lot of talent

and a great idea, but I don't see a business proposition.

That includes numbers, that tells me...

You tell me that I've been to see the guy,

it's going to cost me that much to develop the app,

the next phase on is to do that, then I'm going to need to

employ people...is there anything like that?

Uh, I haven't approached and sat down with an app producer

and said, "This is what I'm after, how much is this going to cost?" I...

Stop.

I've done it...

Do you know, you haven't done the most fundamental,

basic thing, which is to sit down with somebody and say,

"Can this be done?" This is not my failure to understand, this is

-your failure to present me with a business proposition.

-Yeah.

I'm just left with no reason to invest,

so, I'm really sorry, David, but I'm out.

The joking's over and the entrepreneur is

reminded of the potential brutality of the Den in the starkest terms.

Have the other Dragons also lost their patience?

David, thank you very much. It was a very entertaining pitch.

But I'm not going to invest in this. I can't, so I'm out.

-OK, no worries.

-Thank you very much.

Well, I think there's something in it that's quite interesting,

but a lot of your target market probably can't afford this, so,

I think, for that reason, I can't invest in your company, so I'm out.

David, I mean, I have to say, the longer I sit here, there is

a side of me that would love to invest

because I can see the potential, but it's too risky.

What you should do is go and take some of these graffiti artists

and become almost like an agent and produce these, sell them on a

website and see what volume you're going to get,

because that will give you an indication of

whether it's actually what people want to put in their homes.

I just don't feel that I want to invest £70,000 on something,

which just...you haven't come in with enough information.

Um...and so, for that reason, I'm sorry, but I'm out.

Only one dragon remains...

..the tycoon whose name David struggled to remember.

But Peter Jones has, in the past,

taken a gamble with entrepreneurs brave enough to show personality.

You are David Brown, aren't you?

-Yeah, a graffiti artist, that's the brand.

-You're not Banksy.

I knew this was going to come up!

If you were, seriously, if Banksy had come in the Den ten years ago...

-Yeah.

-And pitched the way you've pitched today, I would literally...

put a flea in his ear and tell him to get out

and think he's being an absolute idiot.

And...

I would have made...

the biggest mistake of my life.

I'm the type of guy that would go for something like this...

..cos I think you're onto something.

But...

I hate to say, because you are an incredibly nice bloke,

I wish you'd come in here with just one or two little bits of research.

So I'm going to say good luck to you, but I'm not going to invest.

-I'm out.

-Thank you very much for...

-No, I wish you every bit of luck,

but don't spray anything in our lift on your way out, will you?

No, no, I won't! No, officer, there's no cameras out there anyway.

We'll be watching.

So near, yet so far for David.

He leaves the Den without the investment he wanted to create

a business that takes his graffiti art into bedrooms across the country.

People like that, though, that I'd love to find ways to invest in.

I liked him. I liked him a lot.

I really don't think...

they were that interested and I can't wait for them to go home

and their kids to say to them,

"I can't believe you didn't invest in the graffiti geezer!"

So, oh, well. That's their fault.

While some entrepreneurs haven't the foggiest who the Dragons are...

-Do you know who I am?

-Peter someone.

..there are others who come into the Den with one Dragon on their mind...

You're the Dragon that I wished, because of your expertise in the law.

Don't tell me somebody's suing you!

..like this Australian-based duo who want to want to launch

a new fitness gadget.

The product itself is designed with a special waxy plastic that

enables smooth movement in almost all surfaces.

And they had in their sights Duncan Bannatyne

with his chain of health clubs.

I suppose, really, I'll have to do this at a trial, won't I?

-But I don't really know if I want to.

-Go on, Duncan.

Also, it would demonstrate whether old people can use it as well.

Go for it, man!

Come on, Duncy!

-Go for it?

-Yeah, go for it. Back together.

-Oh. Oh!

-Ten more, Duncan.

Or this Cornish entrepreneur who's devised a new take

on the horse blanket.

Our rugs are specifically designed to stop horses going through

electrified fencing.

There was only one Dragon she wanted to saddle up with.

I don't have horses and every time I ask you a question,

-you look to Deborah when you're giving the answer.

-I'm sorry.

So, I'll wait till Deborah's asked you some questions before I see

-if I want to ask you any more.

-Or, alternatively,

she knows I've got horses and knows that I actually get

-when you say 1,200 deniers.

-Yeah, that's it.

Put on your goggles, please, for the next part of the presentation.

For this mature student, who's invented a twist on a popular toy,

there is no doubting which Dragon could make his invention take off.

-Do you know Bladez Toyz?

-Yes.

That's my company.

Targeting one Dragon does run the risk of alienating others.

This is very boys' toys, I can't sort of get excited about it.

When you do a side lunge you start activating the adductors...

Sorry, are you speaking English? I'm just double-checking.

I thought you'd dropped into Klingon then.

I'm as excited about this as I would be to invest in

an ejector seat in a helicopter.

The Dragons who are not the focus of the entrepreneur's attention

can get helpful hints from the Dragons that are.

Sometimes you have to sit back and listen to some of the other Dragons.

I personally would really like to hear from Duncan.

It is clear that you want Deborah as your chosen investor.

Hmm. I'm going to wait and see what Peter Jones says.

-He's waiting for me?

-I'm waiting for Duncan, I'm being absolutely clear.

If you think it's good, I think it's good.

Sadly, seeking out a particular Dragon doesn't always pay off.

-I really think you won't regret it.

-Um...

no.

I'm finding it difficult to see the market, so, I'm out.

But at least, in one case, there was a result of sorts.

I'm going to do something very un-Dragon-like.

I'm not going to take advantage of you today, however,

I will give you all the advice and mentoring you need for nothing.

OK. Thank you.

I'm not going to compete with that, so, I'm out.

Our national taste for coffee has gone upmarket in recent years, but

we still spend over a billion pounds a year on the instant variety.

The convenience is, obviously, highly valued and

our next entrepreneur, Carrie Bates, thinks she can cash in on that.

Forget the tea bag - she wants to infuse new life into the coffee bag.

DING

My name is Carrie and I'm the founder of has The Little Coffee Bag Company.

I'm here today to ask for £100,000 in exchange for 25% of my business.

I first had my business idea in the summer of 2011

when my husband was taking our son out camping.

I was trying to think of a way that he could enjoy coffee

in the middle of a field without the need of a cafetiere

or a filter machine, and decided that he needed something like

a tea bag, but with ground coffee in.

I did find coffee bags available, but was so disappointed with them

I decided that I could do a better job myself.

For the following 12 months, I designed my packaging

and invested in the machinery to be able to manufacture the coffee bags

from our small holding in Shropshire

and we launched our product two weeks later in Harvey Nichols.

I also supply a small number of high-end hotels

and I've also been approached by an investment company in Dubai that

would like exclusive distribution rights to the United Arab Emirates.

Thank you.

How would you like your coffee?

-Milk, no sugar, please.

-Same.

-Same.

A polite, if not slightly nervous,

pitch from this Shropshire-based entrepreneur.

She's looking for £100,000 for a 25% stake in her business.

Peter Jones is first to question the entrepreneur.

-Is it Carrie?

-Yes.

-Carrie, hi.

-Hello.

I was just very intrigued cos I kept on looking at the table

while you're pouring the coffee... And I can see my book on the table.

Yeah. There's a quote in this book...

I've picked this book up and there was a quote...I opened the book

and it fell to this page and I read it.

"The secret is to take an existing product, service or concept and

"then take it up a level by applying your own vision and creativity."

-And that, I feel, is what I've done with this.

-Amen.

-Wow.

-So, thank you, Peter.

-Did you write that, Peter?

-I did.

-He did.

There's quite a good few facts in there.

Thank you.

A rare moment of modesty for Peter Jones.

And while Carrie might have earned herself some Brownie points,

Piers Linney wants to understand more about the potential

for this business to grow.

If we look at your sort of...look at hotels, for example,

and that high-end market, as you begin to segment as you come down.

There are certain hotels that wouldn't care.

How big does your business get? That's my question, really.

Well, for every 1,200 rooms, there would be just over £100,000 turnover.

So, for 1,200 rooms, it would be just over £1 million turnover

and the 1,200 rooms would still be less than 1% of the rooms

available in this country.

Carrie, what's the price point for the coffee bags you're

selling into hotels?

The price point is 16 pence per sachet

and they cost 9.6 pence to make and that's including the labour.

Are you not getting any resistance from hotels at that price?

-Ah, well, I can see it would be prohibitive for some hotels...

-Yeah.

Doubts from Duncan Bannatyne over Carrie's ambitious plans

to see her coffee bags in hotel chains across the UK.

Now, Kelly Hoppen wants to get to grips with

the retail side of the business.

What does it cost you to make a box like this?

It costs me £4.55 to put the box together like that

and I sell to Harvey Nichols at £7.50.

-And they retail for £14.95.

-OK, and have Harvey Nichols reordered?

Not at the moment, but we're exclusive with

Harvey Nicols until July.

So, how many do you sell online at £14.95?

-I think I've sold around £400 worth, which isn't enormous.

-Yeah.

I'll tell you where I am, Carrie.

Um...I think you're fantastic. I think what you've done is absolutely

fantastic and it just shows how anyone can build a business and

create a business if they really work hard

and really get excited about it.

But I'm not convinced that this business

would ever make enough money...

..really, to give me a return.

I've got to say, I'm out.

Carrie, um, the first thing I wrote on my pad, actually,

when you showed what, you know, what it was, I said, "Simple idea."

Simple idea, it's a great idea, but I'm not sure

I would make the return that I want, so I wish you well, but I'm out.

Two Dragons have declared themselves out in quick succession.

Will the other multi-millionaire investors find a taste

for her coffee business?

Carrie...

this isn't new.

It's something that you've adapted.

You've taken this to a new level

and I think you've actually gone even further.

Um...and I think you've got a business that...

..could be very, very big, actually.

And I don't want to say probably too much,

because I might be doing myself an injustice here, cos,

I'm sitting here and I'm thinking,

"You are more than just investable." I think the business,

the brand is fantastic, you've got some amazing ideas.

I think it's very exciting. So, I'm not going to waste any time.

I'm going to get the ball rolling. So, I'm going to make you an offer.

I'm going to offer you all of the money, £100,000,

and I'd like 33.3%.

OK, thank you. Thank you very much.

Do you want to accept now, or do you want to see

what the others have to say?

-I...I feel that it would not be correct...

-Fair enough.

-Quite right.

Carrie, this is an interesting one, Carrie, cos, um, you present...

really well. You come across really well.

You actually reflect the product really well.

You know, I can see how this came from you, which I love.

Um, so I'm also going to make you an offer.

At the risk of mirroring Peter, I'm going to make you the same offer,

which is all of the money for 33.3%, which is one third of the business.

Thank you very much. Thank you.

Please may...

OK, I'll make you an offer.

for all the money...

for a third of the company, so 33.3%.

Thank you.

Now, what are you going to do?

It's a rare occurrence in the Den.

Three competing offers and they're all asking for exactly

the same equity in exchange for investment.

The tables have turned and Carrie now has to make a decision.

I...

I just don't know what to do.

Um, where do you see me pushing my product forward, Deborah?

-Do you have routes to market in mind, or...?

-Hotels, certainly.

Now, once you've owned that market,

-then you can start bringing out other products...

-Yes.

-And then filter out.

-Mm-hm.

-And then make lots of money and sell it.

So, I think what you're doing is right,

so you've gone in at the right place in the market.

I think the hotels...you need to establish this brand.

I think you're doing that quite well and I think any of us

here can really get you into conversations with

the retailers you need and those kind of contacts.

I know a board director for M&S

and they would take this with your brand.

-Would you mind talking to me about your thoughts?

-No, I don't.

I...I mean, I instantly loved it,

but one thing that really struck me also was the fact...I think,

that one area that could be huge for this business is the hamper market.

I have been approached by a couple of London hamper companies.

Well, I own Red Letter Days and, in there, as you probably know,

we're extremely large in hamper sales and I think that the

international marketplace is an area to also explore as well.

I am erring towards Deborah and Peter at the moment,

and wonder whether you would like to have a joint input together?

It's becoming a bit of a habit, actually, Peter.

HE CLEARS HIS THROAT

-There's me in the middle again.

-Sorry.

I'd be more than happy to split my investment with Deborah,

if she's willing to split it.

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it would work very well.

-I'd like to accept both of your offers, please.

-Excellent.

-Thank you.

-Excellent.

-Thank you. So, where do I start? Thank you.

The entrepreneur who took a leaf out of Peter Jones' book, now walks away

with his money and that of another

highly experienced Dragon in Deborah Meaden.

Woo-hoo!

'I didn't have a brilliant education. My brother passed away when I was 15.

'It really affected my education terribly.'

And it feels that everything that I've gone through led to this moment.

'Deborah and Peter can see the hard work that I've put in

'and that means the world.'

There's been a lot of good will in the Den so far...

I'm going to do something very un-Dragon-like.

I'm not going to take advantage of you today.

..with one investment already made.

-Thank you very much.

-Well done.

Coming up, will any of these entrepreneurs

benefit from the Dragons' good mood?

-No.

-That's devastating.

-It would be.

Or will they fail to get the capital they need?

I don't think £50,000 is nearly enough money.

I don't think it's a good product, I don't think it will sell.

Just try and keep calm.

There are normally about three weeks a year in this country with

ideal conditions for camping.

But what about the on-trend option of glamorous camping? Glamping.

Christian and Carolyn van Outersterp are already successful

glamping entrepreneurs and they now hope to turn their

Yorkshire business into a year-round operation.

Hello, I'm Christian van Outersterp.

And I'm Carolyn van Outersterp

and our business is Jolly Days Luxury Camping.

We want to take this business further, faster,

so we're here to ask for £200,000 in exchange for 20% of our business.

Jolly Days is a multi-award winning business established four

and a half years ago and has revolutionised UK glamping.

We currently have one tented camp of 22 accommodation units

in a beautiful 200-acre woodland close to York.

Our huge vintage style tents have four-poster beds,

roll-top baths, en suite showers, kitchens and wood burners.

We currently operate nine months of the year

and have been profitable since day one.

To expand the business,

we have obtained planning permission for 50 wooden accommodation

suites in a 400-acre woodland in the Yorkshire Wolds.

This will operate 12 months of the year

and will centre around a luxurious clubhouse where you'll be

able to eat delicious local food or curl up with

a hot toddy in front of the fire.

The 50 private woodland suites are more akin to a luxurious

hotel suite in the woods and will feature wood burners,

four-poster beds and spacious spa-style bathrooms.

Our short-term aim is to have 100 accommodation units over

two camps generating £4 million profit.

This is a winning proposition and one of the UK's most exciting

new hospitality ventures and we'd love you to be involved.

Thank you.

A practiced pitch from these glamping entrepreneurs from York.

They're asking for £200,000 for 20% of an established business

they want to expand.

And with Deborah Meaden having made millions running a

holiday business, the Den will be keen to hear her thoughts first.

I like this, you know, it interests me.

And, not surprisingly, I've been in this industry

and I watch it very carefully.

I know of you and I also know of the many other businesses that

have sprung up individually cos that's proliferated, hasn't it?

Glamping's absolutely been the latest thing for people to

get into, so my only question on that would be, what's

occupancy doing in terms of glamping?

-So, how long have you been running?

-Four and a half years.

And, last year,

how was your occupancy compared to the year before?

-It was 57% and I think we grew by about 20%.

-You grew?

-Yes.

-Yes.

So far, so good, for the entrepreneurs, but are their

revenue figures as healthy as the number of tents they're filling?

The turnover of the business to date?

Last year was 365 net.

And 102,000 net profit.

Talk me through how you get to £4 million's profit...

post £200,000 investment.

What we're looking to do is, the £200,000 investment

and bank loan and set up the clubhouse and 15...

-What's the bank loan?

-The bank loan's 300,000.

So, the key thing is, what's the total cost

of doing this new venture?

For the stage one, we're saying half a million, for the clubhouse

and 15 units, and, thereafter, it's generating cash to grow.

-Have you bought the land?

-No, we lease it off an estate.

-For how long?

15 years with a three-year option

-on top of that.

-15 years?

-Yeah.

That's not very long, is it?

In what way have you protected the business from a landlord saying,

"Thank you very much, Christian, and Caroline,

"you've now invested £3 million, you've had a good run at it,

"you've made a little bit of money, but I'm now taking it back...

"And I'm going to run it as my own business?"

There wouldn't be anything there for him to run, because we don't own everything.

-Because you own everything?

-It would revert back to just woodland if we went.

So, you've now got to go in and clear the site?

Yes, that would be...

That's devastating.

It would be.

A game-changing piece of information

in what to date had been a convincing pitch.

And Duncan Bannatyne is not ready to let it lie.

Who decided on 15 years?

I think the land agent of the estate. I think we pushed for more, but for some reason...

Yes, because I think tenants have more rights.

Why didn't you negotiate a 40 year lease

with a 15 year tenant only break?

Yes, I mean, I think the reality of it is

the two landowners that we worked with are both estate landowners.

-Is it a very well known estate?

-No.

-It's a family owned...

-Yes, they're both family...

-Family owners.

-Local posh landowners.

-And it's been in the family for a long time?

-Yes.

I've rented off the Blenheim estate.

You know, when you rent off a family

and it's been in a family for a long time,

it's always going to be in that family.

And I would think it would be unlikely that they would rent,

rent you the land for 40 years.

Couldn't you just lift your model into some land you can buy?

-Is it something particular about these woods?

-I suppose, I mean...

Most of the beautiful woods are on, sort of landed estates.

And also, I mean, our woodland is not plantation woodland.

It is beautiful, natural English woodland.

It's about that kind of aspect of something that is magical

and is romantic and it's incredibly well placed

and this site is between York and Beverley.

So, it's very well-placed, in terms of tourism,

it's a sort of tourism hotspot, really.

The entrepreneurs are hanging on by their fingertips.

So, is Duncan Bannatyne ready to give them a lifeline?

I've just bought a lodge in a park in the banks of Lake Windermere,

which I love. I spend all my time there.

And I think it's fantastic, the concept you have at the moment.

It's almost worth investing £200,000 in your business as it is.

You're doing very well, you're making a lot of money.

But that's not what you want, you want to go ahead with this.

There is a huge risk because you don't own the land.

And the fact that you get kicked off after 15 years worries me too much.

So, I can't make an investment. Otherwise I'd have loved to.

I'm sorry, but I have to say I'm out.

(Thank you.)

A blow for Christian and Caroline, as their first Dragon bows out

on account of what could be a fatal flaw in their expansion plan,

the thorny issue of the 15 year lease.

Has it convinced the other dragons to walk away from a deal?

As you approach the end of your lease,

and you want to sell the business,

the buyer will have to negotiate a new lease with the landlord

and your negotiating position will just evaporate

and so will the value of your business.

So, for me, because of that one issue, really,

it wouldn't work. So, fantastic, well done, but I'm afraid I'm out.

Guys, I do think you have an issue that you don't own the land.

I think that your business plan is flawed,

I think you should retreat and think about what you've got

and make that better.

And as everybody said, when it comes to the end of 15 years,

you actually don't own anything and you've spent millions of pounds.

So, I wish you luck, but I'm afraid I'm out.

I would urge you not even to contemplate

doing this project at all. It's flawed.

You always end up over-budget, you always end up under-resourcing

and you always end up with a position where

this occupancy rate doesn't quite happen.

And one or two bad seasons

and all of a sudden you're chasing your tail.

I can't invest in something that is whimsical.

So, clearly, you know where I'm going.

I wont be investing and I'm out.

Only one dragon left.

Will Deborah Meaden, with her experience in this field,

be any more willing to offer the entrepreneurs the cash

to make their expansion dreams a reality?

I intrinsically understand this end of the market.

I used to find people choose to camp,

or even stay in caravans,

not just because of money, not just because of price,

but because it's different and it's fun.

They've chosen that.

You've got that in the glamping model.

You lose something in the romance of it

when you turn it into a hotel with lots of rooms all over it.

So, I wont be investing and I'm out.

-OK. Thank you.

-Thank you.

-PETER: Thank you.

-Thank you, good luck.

A disappointed Christian and Caroline exit the den.

They needed an investment to transform their successful glamping business,

but they leave with nothing.

Back to mine, eh?

Renegotiate.

That's a shame. I got my Volkswagen camper van, Ruby, and I love it.

-I love this.

-I'd go.

Henry Ford once said, if I'd asked what customers wanted,

they would have said, "a faster horse,"

demonstrating the best entrepreneurs have a vision

for how a market can develop.

Married couple, Nuala and Christopher Lewis,

came to the Den, hoping they've had that kind of vision

with their invention.

It's a brand new take on the familiar old product of a mouse mat.

Like many people, I like to sit on my sofa

and surf the internet on my laptop.

Sometimes I get frustrated with the trackpad,

so I would reach for my mouse.

I'd start running my mouse up and down my sofa arm on my lap,

surfaces that are clearly not designed for the use of a mouse.

Then came our Eureka moment,

as you can see here our exciting new product, Slouch Mat.

Peter Jones was keen to get his hands on the product.

I'm a bit concerned about the bits here.

What are these bits that pull out?

Oh! You've actually ripped it open?

-What are they inside?

-Dried peas.

-Wow!

But Piers Linney had already spotted a competing product in the room.

There is a device on the market that does that already?

You've got two on your chair over there.

They're called cushions.

On the theme of soft furnishings,

Kelly Hoppen wasted no time with her opinion on Slouch Mat aesthetics.

I think this is an incredibly ugly item to have on a sofa.

Even the cover,

you could have used a neoprene in all different neutral colours

which would have looked more modern than something which people would

have liked to have had on the side of their sofa.

Where the Dragons all agreed, is with smartphones, tablets

and touch screen devices becoming ever more popular,

the Slouch Mat was 1990s technology.

I'm going to be constructive but brutal.

I don't think it's very good.

Have you invented something for the mouse,

just as the mouse disappears from our lives?

This is completely back in the Dark Ages.

In a way you've invented a faster way of writing on parchment

with a quill the day before the printing press was invented.

-I don't think it's a good product, I don't think it will sell and I'm out.

-Thank you.

Could there be a gap on the supermarket shelves,

already piled so high with jars and packets,

tempting us with the promise of speedy convenience and tasty food?

Entrepreneurs Vini and Bal Aujla think they have spotted one

for a fresh curry sauce.

HE INHALES DEEPLY

Let's try and keep calm.

Composed, take our time, take our time.

LIFT BELL PINGS

Hello. My name is Vini and this is my husband, Bal.

-We're here today...

-I can hardly hear you.

Oh, gosh, OK.

We are here today to ask for a £50,000 investment

for a 15% share in our company,

Vini & Bal's Rustic Indian.

Currently we produce a range of four chilled, fresh Indian cook-in sauces.

We only use natural ingredients.

They're healthy, they're nutritious,

they're very easy to use.

The entire range is gluten-free,

asides from the Shahi, which is the blue sauce,

they are also dairy free

and you'll always end up with a traditional, tasty Indian meal.

In January this year our product was launched into 120 stores

of a national, independent supermarket.

We have a listing with the largest health food

distributor in the south-east of England,

who in turn also supplies five organic food stores in London.

We are imminently going live with the largest online grocer

and we have brought some samples for you to try

and after which we will be happy to answer your questions.

An understated pitch from this husband and wife team.

They're looking for £50,000 for 15% of their fresh curry business.

Key for Kelly Hoppen is Rustic Indian's authenticity.

It's hot.

Did you actually start making this in your own kitchen?

Yes, these are recipes that have been handed down many generations

and we actually wanted it to be more personal.

What sort of competition is there out there?

-Is there anything similar?

-I mean, this is the thing.

The supermarket shelves are saturated with the preserved jars,

yet there is nothing in the fresh section and we just...

We just can't get to grips with that.

So there's no competition, whatsoever?

-BAL: Not in the supermarket, no.

-What is the shelf life of this?

Currently we have 12 weeks.

Have you looked into why they don't do fresh?

They do have fresh Italian sauces

so why somebody has not thought about making fresh Indian

cook-in sauces, I think is purely down to the shelf life.

-BAL: And their model?

-VINI: And their model.

-Yeah.

I think it is as well.

I've got a little bit of experience in this...

It's different, admitted, it's Caribbean.

One of the reasons why we very much keep away from this,

-it's extremely expensive.

-It is.

And its shortened lifespan, which means high level of investment

and wastage. So all the big players in this marketplace,

if this was a market opportunity, they would have launched it.

I'm wondering why they haven't?

I don't think they've actually seen it.

Trust me, they spend tens of millions a year

in this type of arena.

They'd know it.

A lesson on the workings of the prepared food

industry from a Dragon who knows.

But Piers Linney wants to bring the pitch back around to basics.

I want to talk about the food, I had the chicken, I love it.

It's as simple as that. Very straightforward from me.

When I grew up my uncle was Indian and very traditional,

I know what the real food should taste like and you're right, it is

quite different in terms of what we are presented with in restaurants.

I like your packaging.

-It stands out because it's different, isn't it?

-Yes.

Like you say, you just don't see this.

When I first saw it I couldn't work out what is it?

I'm not familiar with that existing. It's quite amazing you found a niche.

That's pretty hard to do.

So I can see you've put Vini & Bal on the back.

Is it a bit of an ego trip?

No. Erm, everything that you see here has been created by us.

The illustration there was actually supposed to be my mum and dad

back in the '70s coming over from India.

When we are carrying out our marketing,

everybody seemed to assume that this was Bal and I.

-Right.

-That's where the branding Vini & Bal's Rustic Indian came from.

But the reality is Vini & Bal is Vini and Bal,

the two people I see in front of me.

The big issue for me is actually you guys, in terms of the product

and its positioning,

the reason why people like Loyd Grossman have sold millions.

It's the reason why Levi Roots is a millionaire.

It's because, it's the brand that pushes the client

to buy the product.

I'm wondering what you've got to drive the brand values behind it?

We actually like Vini & Bal's Rustic Indian.

We started a PR campaign in January.

It's been very successful for us.

The main headline grabbing publications are the Observer,

the Guardian and Daily Mail and Sunday.

John Torode from MasterChef actually recommended a buy on this product.

That is a huge amount of PR.

A huge amount, which would essentially get your name out there.

The problem I'm having with all the PR that you've had,

I would have thought that you would have had a much more successful business by now.

We just started the PR in January of this year.

It doesn't matter, you've still had it.

Yeah, and we've had a phenomenal response.

The problem is, we can't actually supply everybody

because it's not readily available.

A PR company is going to have to go out and market you.

I don't think £50,000 is nearly enough money to actually

build the brand that you want.

It's just not something that I feel comfortable investing in.

-I'm afraid I'm out, but I wish you a lot of luck.

-Thank you.

There are issues around this.

I love the look of it but you are going to have to spend a fortune.

I have a view, if you're spending less than £3,000 a month on PR

you might as well not spend any money at all.

I won't be investing so I'm afraid, I'm out.

A double blow for the entrepreneurs as Kelly Hoppen and Deborah Meaden

are spooked by the money needed to launch yet another cook-in sauce.

But Peter Jones wants to learn more about the couples' business credentials.

What do you do, Bal, now?

Predominantly most of my time is Rustic Indian, our children.

Erm...

We have a leasehold business... You have got a leasehold business.

Tell me about that quickly?

Yeah, we bought this bakery as an ongoing concern in 2008.

Erm...

And we bought at the peak of the market,

so to speak and the recession has kicked in.

It's...

It's...

There is an economic downturn and, erm,

the business sort of breaks even.

How much money have you in that business?

Well, including money that we put in

and the money that we borrowed,

that's 120,000.

Did you know what it was making at the time you bought it?

- Yeah, but in 2008 when we purchased it,

the business had started to quieten down,

just because those less money around.

I struggle with that bit because I've developed a theory over the last 30-odd years in business

that entrepreneurs who blame

the weather, the recession,

the government, never make it.

I'd be in that bakery now, trying to make that bakery work.

Yes...

It's having an interest.

It's having an interest in the bakery.

You have an interest you've invested in it.

Why are you not in there, making that bakery work?

Why are you not in there baking the bread?

It's not me.

It's not me.

Vini and Bal's admission that they have given up trying to

make their current bakery business profitable

has unnerved the Dragons.

And Peter Jones has made his mind up.

This is not something, sadly, for me to invest in.

The brand positioning is wrong.

I'm not convinced on the product.

I do think there is a very,

very good reason why that marketplace has not been tapped.

I just think you're trying to punch way above your weight.

I'm going to wish you the best of luck. It's a lovely product

-but it's not an investment I can take forward and I'm out.

-Thank you.

I agree it's a lovely product, it's well packed.

Well presented, but I just...

..don't think the problems with supermarkets taking it

can be overcome.

For that reason,

I'm out.

With four tycoons gone, only the newest and youngest Dragon remains.

But has Piers Linney's early enthusiasm for this fresh curry

business been dampened by the more experienced old guard?

Vini and Bal, two things that have been discussed wind me up.

One is, entrepreneurs get into businesses that make mistakes,

it's not what they thought it was,

it's not something you should be strung up for.

That's just life and that how you learn.

The other thing is, I don't pretend to be an expert in supermarkets.

You know, this is the way it's done and that's the way the market is and that's the price

and they'll squeeze you, it's been done before.

It's just nonsense.

When you go into a supermarket you are looking for something which is differentiated,

something that is fresh.

Yeah, I trust its supply chain, maybe there is a story behind it.

I know it's not some made up brand, that's being manufactured,

shoved into a jar with who knows what

just so it has got a shelf life.

I mean, the world has to change.

But...

You're going to need more than 50K.

That's the issue.

I mean, a lot more, not even 100K, I mean, hundreds of thousands.

You could spend 50 on just your branding.

You could...

The question is, can I?

I'll tell you what, I make you an offer. It's a bit of a punt.

I'd give you the 50,000...

..but I want 30%.

Is the 30% that you asked for, is that negotiable

because you did want to go to a maximum of 25?

-Is there any movement in that?

-No.

Erm...

May we ask how you see yourself fitting in with our brand,

our vision and what do you think you can bring to the table to

help us get to where we want to get to?

You don't know me as well as some of the other Dragons,

that's the issue you've got but you have to take, I've bought businesses that are worth millions,

tens of millions over the last five years, during three recessions.

What I do have is lots of different networks, you know.

I'm not going to lie to you, I'm not the biggest well-connected person

in retail but you're not going to get this anywhere without some money.

You know, there is a bit of risk in this, let's face it.

-Do you want to have a chat in the boardroom?

-In the boardroom!

Yeah, yeah, help yourself.

Say, "yes".

-Yeah.

-Yeah?

Let's ask the question.

OK...

We'd be happy to accept your offer.

-Cool.

-Well done.

APPLAUSE

After a tricky negotiation, Piers Linney seals the deal

and an overwhelmed Vini leaves the Den with her husband, Bal,

and the £50,000 investment they need.

She's still not too happy, is she?

I don't know whether she was crying out of delight, or...

-"Not Piers, come on..."

-I think you'll do well.

I'm pleased they got investment. I'm just pleased it wasn't my money.

It's amazing with a capital A.

A-mazing. Yeah?

It's like you can't put a value, even though

we just have in what we've given away and what we got back.

That's not really the true value of a Dragon.

It far outweighs what he's just invested.

We know that, he knows that and now it's actually about building that.

So a double investment this week, both of them in the food and drink industry,

both trying to combine convenience for the consumer with a fresh taste.

It's a fresh step for Piers Linney who's spicing up his business

portfolio by entering this sector for the first time.

The conversations on all of tonight's pitches

continue on Twitter, using the hash tag Dragons' Den.

Let's go.

Next week in the Den...

There's a huge amount of work to get anywhere near comfortable making an investment.

Will you then take a percentage of those sales?

We would split the sales 50/50.

I'm not entirely convinced about this,

-although I sort of like it in a way.

-Thank you.

I'm a natural investor for you.

So what would be the offer?

Or don't you want to make one?

Why have you felt it necessary to come in here and try

and pull the wool over our eyes?