Episode 6 Dragons' Den

-PETER:

-You are deluded...

-DUNCAN:

-It doesn't matter what the business is,

-it's my return that matters.

-KELLY:

-I would want 40%.

-PIERS:

-Would you invest in it?

-DEBORAH:

-I'm irritated.

-PETER:

-I'm out.

These are the Dragons -

wealthy, well-connected, innovative and influential.

Each week, they make or break the dreams

of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

In the Den, leisure and marketing expert, Deborah Meaden.

Telecoms giant, Peter Jones.

Hotel and health club owner, Duncan Bannatyne.

Founder of her own global interior design brand, Kelly Hoppen.

And cloud computing expert and former city financier, Piers Linney.

With thousands to lose, but millions to gain,

the Dragons are prepared to fight for that next shrewd investment.

In the last decade, over 900 entrepreneurs have faced the Dragons

and investment offers of £14.5 million have been made in this room.

To face them takes nerve and vision,

so who will leave with the Dragons' money?

Welcome once again to the Dragons' Den.

The place where aspiring entrepreneurs looking for cash

to build their businesses

face experienced entrepreneurs who have cash to invest.

Coming up in tonight's show...

What happened to the tee then?

I sit in this chair and I just think people come in here and think

we've all got "mug" written on our heads.

Right, I'm going to make you an offer.

-You've wasted three years of your life.

-You said that last time.

Well, that's six years, now.

Would you like to see the midnight edition?

Oh, go on, then.

THEY LAUGH

Well, well, well. D'you know what? I wasn't expecting that.

Entrepreneurs Richard McLuckie

and Stuart McKenzie-Walker are first up.

They're hoping their board game business will appeal

to the Dragons' competitive natures.

But will they be on top of their game with their pitch?

Let's find out.

-What are my pants doing up there?!

-LAUGHTER

Hello, Dragons, my name is Richard McLuckie...

And I'm Stuart McKenzie-Walker.

Together, we are Pants On Fire Games Limited.

Today, we are looking for a £50,000 investment for 10% of our company.

Pants On Fire Games is a small independent company.

We create award-winning board games and party games.

We have been going since about 2009

and we now have seven games in our range.

We currently supply Waterstones, Hamleys, Amazon, Toymaster

and WH Smith's.

-HMV.

-Oh, sorry, yes.

In terms of our best deal so far,

we managed to get HMV to stock all of our games.

However, in terms of actual payment, this turned out to be

our least successful deal because they went bankrupt.

This left a rather large hole in our finances,

which we are still recovering from.

So, before you ask any...

Want to ask us any questions, I was wondering if you'd

just like to have a go at one of the questions from Liar Liar?

Yes, please.

Yes? OK.

So, I will briefly explain how it actually works

when you ask a question.

On your go, you are the question master.

Because it's a multiple choice, you give two answers.

You always give the correct answer and then you make one up.

If you are struggling to make one up, there's an option on the card

that you can use to help you out.

So, if you want to have a try, Duncan.

Right, OK.

"The air force of which European country only provides planes

"during working hours on weekdays -

"is it Nova Scotia or Switzerland?"

-Switzerland.

-That's the correct answer.

So if someone chooses your lie,

you win a lie card - that's in the game -

and you have to have a lie card to be able to win the game.

Amiable entrepreneurs, but a pitch that's hardly set the Den on fire.

Can Richard McLuckie and Stuart McKenzie-Walker,

who are looking for £50,000

in return for 10% of their games business,

win Peter Jones around?

Um...

-So...

-OK. So, yes, your questions, please.

-Sorry... Sorry, Peter.

-Um...

You said that you've lost a lot of money with HMV.

-Yes...

-What has that done to you?

It nearly crippled us, to be honest.

In figures, it cost us... £20,000.

-So this year we made a loss of £4,000.

-Just below 4,000, yep.

We would have made a profit if it hadn't been for the HMV situation.

OK, so what did you turn over last year?

We turned over £67,000

and a net loss of just under £4,000.

OK, so what does the company look like today,

how much has it got in debt?

We're £56,000 in debt...

That's with a £20,000 bank loan and then 30...

Sorry, £36,000, which is loans from friends and family.

Is there anything else? Is there any bank debts or other debts?

-There's an overdraft.

-An overdraft.

-DUNCAN:

-How much?

-Of £10,000.

Right.

So, basically, you're coming into the Den trying to wing it

-with Liar Liar Pants On Fire?

-Um...

-That's what you're trying to do, isn't it?

-No.

-Well, guys, that's not a business, is it?

-Yes, it is, yeah.

-You must have full-time jobs?

-No.

-No, this is it.

And have you got...

-Are you wealthy individuals?

-No.

-Not at all?

-No.

-No. THEY LAUGH

This is why we're here!

I can't work out whether you are in here looking for

an investment or a bailout.

Well, we need the money.

That's why we're here, cos we need the money.

A focus on the company's debt rather than its products

has left the entrepreneurs struggling to get past go

with the Dragons.

Can the duo remain upbeat under the questioning of Kelly Hoppen?

What is the most successful game out there

and what kind of money does it make?

Well, Monopoly's the top-selling game at 100,000.

After that, there's the likes of Cluedo, Scrabble,

those sort of games.

So, basically, the ones you're naming are the ones that have

-been around for a million years.

-Yes.

We realise we're taking on the traditional games

but we feel our games are a lot more fun.

But what was funny about what we just did?

Well, it was quirky questions

and being able to make something up and trying to

fool your friends or family into believing a wrong answer.

-PETER:

-But where's the money in it, though?

I had a board game called Big Business, have you heard of that?

-BOTH: Yes.

-Right.

-Do you know how many we sold?

-15,000.

-How'd you know that?

-Research.

Wow, OK, we're impressed.

And I don't mind saying it shocked me how well we did

but it also shocked me that we didn't make any money.

Honestly, it's an anomaly, it's weird

because everybody said to me,

"Peter, if you get this game and we sell 10,000,

"it's going to be brilliant." And we surpassed that so quickly

but it was surprising to sell so many games and not make any money.

If you don't mind me saying, Peter,

if we sold 15,000 of one our games, we would make a profit on it.

-It's all such small numbers, isn't it?

-Well, at the moment, yes.

It is, yeah.

The way I'd sort of imagine you guys is you're like vinyl records.

And they're getting smaller and smaller

and they're going off the high street into the basement

and it's very hard to make an investment.

I think as an investment, I've got to say it, it's pants.

So, on that basis, I'm afraid I'm out.

It's not looking good for the entrepreneurs as Piers Linney

manoeuvres his way out the deal.

And Deborah Meaden is ready to have her say.

My worry about this is that you are already in debt

and when people are in debt,

they tend to focus on getting themselves out of trouble

rather than being able to say,

"Right, there's the money to drive this business forward"

so I'm afraid I'm out.

OK, thank you very much.

-KELLY:

-Guys, ooh.

You've kind of come in here

and the first thing that's in my mind is the fact

that the money that I would give you would get you out of a black hole

rather than me thinking about what it is that you've got.

I don't know enough about games and, to be honest,

I'm a bit bored by what I've seen.

I hate to say it

but it's just not something that I'm enthusiastic about or even

think that I want to get involved with, so I'm afraid I'm out.

It's starting to look like game over for the entrepreneurs

as three Dragons declare themselves out.

But Duncan Bannatyne hasn't finished with the pair just yet.

Who is your nearest competitor

who invents and produces a number of games?

There's probably two other companies in the UK that do that

about our sort of size, slightly smaller.

The difference between what those people do and what we do

is that we invent these games,

it's us two that have invented all these games.

The other guys,

it tends to be similar sort of games along the same theme.

Yeah.

I'm just a little bit on the edge.

Well, I think if one of these games is successful,

we would be absolutely delighted.

If one goes global, that would be the ultimate thing.

And if these five or six won't, we've got three that we want to

produce next year that we've already got in prototype form.

And two for this year.

Look, I've assessed it

and I think what you need to bring to these games...

is my sense of humour.

THEY CHUCKLE

-That's funny in itself.

-That's what it's all about.

And I don't want to stake £50,000 into this at the moment on my own.

So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to try this,

-I'm going to make you an offer.

-OK.

-OK.

And after I've made the offer, the only person that's in is Peter. OK?

So, I'm going to offer you half the money...

-OK.

-..25,000...

but I want 15% of the company.

An unexpected development as Duncan Bannatyne

puts in a much-needed offer.

But the entrepreneurs aren't quite in the clear yet.

Will Peter Jones rescue them with a matching bid?

Duncan's a sharp, canny investor so he's obviously seen something.

Actually, I'd better ask, have you seen something, Duncs?

I just think it would be an exciting and enjoyable gamble.

I mean, I don't normally gamble but there's just something about it.

Well, on the basis of that, I'm going to make you an offer as well.

OK.

I'm going to offer you £25,000 for...

20% of the business.

I would also prefer it that Duncan own the same share as me.

Yeah, well, I presume, Duncan, are you staying at 15% with the offer?

Well, I would have done, but Peter has indicated that he wants me

to have the same shareholding as him so I've got to go to 20%.

Tough tactics from the Dragons as they raise the equity stake

demanded to 40%, leaving a difficult decision for the entrepreneurs.

-Do you mind if we have a little chat?

-Yeah, help yourself.

-Absolutely.

OK, brilliant, thank you.

THEY CONFER QUIETLY

(We had a maximum which was 25.)

(Or we'd ideally like somebody to come to 15

(and with the possibility of us getting 5% back.)

(As soon as they got their money back, down to 25.) Yeah? OK.

-Shall I do the talking?

-Yeah.

Um, yeah, great, thank you very much for the offers,

we're delighted that you've made those offers.

We can't go to 40%.

So, I'm just wondering,

we had a maximum that we had in mind before we came in here.

And that maximum was 25%.

Now, I don't think you're going to come down to 25%

but I think what would be reasonable and fair would be if you could both

agree on 15% with the possibility of once you've got your investment back,

you reduce it to 12.5 so the offer is 25%.

How does that sound for you?

I'd be happy to reduce to 15 if I get my money back.

I don't know what... What do you think, Duncs?

Yeah, I'd match that, so we'd offer £50,000 for 40% and our

percentage reduces to 30% between us when we get our money back.

Our preferred option was clearly with you guys...

..but we can't go to 40%.

So, I'm sticking with my offer at 30% reducing to 25

once we've paid you back.

Uh...

Would you take that?

No.

Sometimes we see opportunities where we don't know

whether we're driven by the heart or the head.

And in this case, I've not been driven by either,

I've been driven by the excitement and not by my wallet.

If I'd been driven purely by my wallet, I wouldn't be investing.

My wallet says no. So, you know, you've had the best offer.

Would you mind if we...?

-No, no.

-Thank you.

You've got a new game here, it's called Double Bluff.

THEY CHUCKLE

-(I think it's a no. No, no.)

-(What else can we offer them then?)

THEY CONFER QUIETLY

-Yeah, let's go it for then, yeah.

-Yeah?

-Mm.

Peter, Duncan, we'd like to accept your offer. Thank you very much.

Victory at last.

-Do you two work well together? KELLY:

-No.

We can't stand each other(!)

The Pants On Fire team leave the Den with two new players and their cash.

THEY CHUCKLE

-We've got Duncan, brilliant.

-I know.

-And Peter.

-It's fantastic.

-Yeah.

Extraordinary.

They're going, "We got Richard...and Stuart."

That's way more than we wanted.

That was the right percentage though, I think you were right

to stick with that cos the amount you're going to bring to that...

-That's going nowhere without you.

-Yeah.

What lovely people. They're not mean at all.

No, it shouldn't be the Dragons' Den,

it should be the Fairies' Den or something along those lines.

-You can't say that.

-THEY LAUGH

There's no such thing as a typical entrepreneur.

And as the Dragons are soon to find out,

the next duo are proof that the Den is always full of surprises.

Hello, Dragons.

My name is Hugh Roper and I'm the founder of Torch in Europe.

My name's Nathan, I'm the creator of Torch,

a new brand of lit apparel for urban cyclists.

We're here today to offer you the opportunity

to invest £75,000 for 10% of our equity in Torch Europe.

So, this is our first product for Torch.

There's three things that make this unique for cyclists,

the first being that we have lights integrated into the helmet.

What makes it unique also is the fact that they are visible

from 360 degrees for the cyclist.

The second thing is it is THE first helmet

to have rechargeable batteries.

The global cycling market is valued at over £50 billion a year.

To give you a feel for the size of the UK market helmet-wise,

there are over 1.5 million helmets sold a year. So, we'd like to...

With that said, we'd like to give you a chance to check 'em out

and we'd be happy to answer any questions

regarding the product or the business.

An illuminating pitch

from business partners Hugh Roper and Nathan Wills.

They want £75,000 to help fund their expansion plans for their

cycling-gear-cum-safety-lights venture.

But telecoms tycoon Peter Jones has something on his mind.

I think this is a first in the Den.

I believe it probably is.

But not for the reason you're thinking.

I think this is the first time that we've been pitched a really great

product for a reasonable amount of money by a multi-millionaire.

Hugh, let's explain.

-OK.

-You're the multi-millionaire. I know you.

-Uh-huh.

-You're known in the industry that you were previously in.

-Yeah.

You did well selling to Carphone Warehouse.

Why do you need us?

Um, the purpose of being before you is to seek your input

in terms of helping accelerate

people's brand awareness of our products, our company.

So, you're more here for the PR then?

PR is part of it, for sure, but I'm also here because I thought

it would be quite fun to do business with one of you guys.

And how did you guys meet? What's the connection?

Well, I found Nathan as a result of just

searching around the internet for a product similar to this

and I just dropped him an e-mail saying,

"Hello, you don't know me, I'm Hugh, I think your products are great.

-"I'm an investor, I might be interested."

-Did you just think,

"Oh, my God, this is the most incredible phone call ever"?

Yeah.

It was an attractive partnership, I thought.

KELLY: Well, it looks great.

Hugh, Nathan, I've got a million questions.

-Launch.

-I've got eight helmets at home.

-OK.

They all sit on a shelf and would I have one of these?

So, one question is the price point.

Well, our retail, direct to consumer through our website, is for £85.

And what's a typical commuter helmet cost?

It's no way near 80.

Um, typically, you can get a range anywhere from, I would say,

£20 up to a couple of hundred, so we're basically mid-range for that.

But the advantage of this is you take the cost of a helmet

and the cost of a set of lights and when you combine them,

we're usually under that cost.

Yeah, but you buy the lights on a bike which are run by a dynamo.

They work 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

You just put them back on the dynamo -

the dynamo charges the lights and the lights come on.

Your helmet could run out of light

and somebody could be stuck out when it's dark with no lights.

Duncan, no-one's used a dynamo for quite some time on a bike.

-How do you charge them then?

-Batteries.

Which is a good question.

How many times can you recharge the batteries in here?

-Uh, right now, the manufacturers stated 1,000 cycles.

-OK.

-And it's got two charging points, is that...?

-It does. It's a USB.

Right, OK, so you've given me the wire.

So, there's two points, USB, so you can charge it from a laptop...

-You can charge that from a phone charger.

-Well done.

It's very neat. Have you got my size?

PIERS LAUGHS

I think it's absolutely beautiful.

I can't bear helmets normally,

they make people look geeky and they're ugly.

-But it's lovely and I think the branding is beautiful.

-Thank you.

Thanks.

What's wrong? It's all too good.

Praise for the product but will the old adage that

if something sounds too good to be true then it probably is

prove to be the case for Peter Jones?

I can tell you, I do like it immediately

and I'm not a keen cyclist. Have you got protection on it?

Yes, we have patent protection on the helmet.

-Have you got the patent here?

-We do, actually.

-Do you mind if I have a look at it?

-Absolutely.

Thanks, Nathan.

You're welcome, thank you.

It feels like you've just put a pin in me.

How so?

I was feeling that perhaps

you've got a utility patent for lights on a cycle helmet.

-Yeah.

-But you haven't, have you?

-No, you can't.

-DUNCAN: What's the patent for, Peter?

It's basically a design

so if you change the light or change anything, anybody can do it.

Right, it's the design.

-You can change the design, do it in a slightly different way.

-Correct.

-But there's some big players that could...

-There are, but...

How long will it take a decent-sized company to integrate lights?

I would say that it's definitely doable

and the whole point with this is to be the first to market.

No, but you could see the excitement when you've talked about that

and then I know that you've got a multi-millionaire

backer as well, it became quite exciting, whereas now I think that

your design and your works are still exciting

but not perhaps to the same level.

A first painful blow for the entrepreneurs

as their lack of patent leaves their product vulnerable to competition.

It's a revelation that leaves the pair vulnerable in the Den.

When you walked in earlier, I just loved the branding,

loved the look of the helmets, everything about it was fantastic.

I'm all about design - that, to me, was just an extraordinary

melange of something that I would want to be a part of.

However, the patent is just not there

and it's just not an investable business for me

but I think you will be very successful

and I think anything you touch, if this is what you've designed so far,

you're very creative, but I'm afraid I won't be investing so I'm out.

No cash for Kelly Hoppen as the product's lack of protection

puts her off investing.

What conclusion has Deborah Meaden reached?

Guys, I think it's really neat.

I often say I've just got to see the map, I've just got to think,

"Right, I know what I can do with this.

"I know how I can help."

But I don't ride bicycles, I've got no idea.

So, I might as well tell you now, I'm out.

Thank you for your feedback. Thanks.

When you first came in, I did think, silently, this is it.

But seeing the design patent, I realise it's not.

So, on that basis, I'm going to say that I'm out

but I wish you both every success.

-Thank you.

-Thank you.

I am a little bit concerned that there's no patent protecting

the actual facility and more designs can come up.

But I think, you know, if there's a natural investor here today,

it might be Peter, but it's certainly not me.

So, I'm going to declare myself out.

Tense times for the entrepreneurs

as four Dragons turn their back on a deal.

It's now all down to Piers Linney.

Will he be guided by his love for bikes or his head for business?

This is so annoying. I'd love to...

I mean, a lot of it's been said.

Although, functionally, it's very good and it's beautiful,

I probably wouldn't buy one cos, to me,

it's a bit geeky, it's a bit of the guy's got mirrors on his bike.

Would you like to see the Midnight edition?

Oh, go on, then.

Can't say no.

-So, what's the difference?

-Tinted lenses.

-Oh, yes.

-So, this is your stealth version?

-Yeah.

We limited that one on Kickstarter

and it sold out within the first two weeks

so we're trying to decide

do we keep it as a limited thing and make it special

or do we just make it available to whoever wants...?

That's the one my son likes.

-He's a big scooterer as well and that's another market.

-Yeah.

Yeah, that's more like it.

It doesn't look as like, "I've got lights on my head, everyone."

Yeah, it's a bit cooler.

-It pains me, but I'm out. Sorry, guys.

-OK.

THEY CHUCKLE

Well done, guys.

Defeat as Piers Linney's exit

brings an end to the entrepreneurs' hopes of investment.

-PIERS:

-I'm so gutted.

Now, it's back to plan B - forging ahead without a Dragon on board.

-I think it was good.

-We can always do more work on patents moving forward.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm comfortable. Well done, good job.

When they said they had that patent, I thought, "Yes."

-KELLY:

-It's beautiful, though. The design is stunning.

Yeah, it's good-looking.

'Stand by, everybody. Here we go.'

Other entrepreneurs hoping to drive the Dragons

to the point of investment

included Rob Goodman and Nigel Travis from York.

They were hoping their invention would be

a must-have for the UK's four million golfers.

Now, take a traditional wooden golf tee. Its weakness?

It simply is its weakness.

Our golf tees are virtually unbreakable

and magnetically retrievable.

You can pick up your tees using either the club head

or the grip end of the club.

But Peter Jones was more interested in investigating

Rob's headwear than his invention.

You haven't got a couple of those tees stuck in your hair, have you?

We were wanting to have a look there. Yes.

-Put it on, Peter.

-I think they call it the Ian Poulter look.

Ian Poulter? He's a very good friend of mine.

-Is he?

-He'd be a bit upset, wouldn't he?

Back to the product

and the Dragons soon discovered a potential handicap to sales success.

-How much does it cost?

-We sell it for £11.99.

-Is that for the pack?

-That's for the whole pack, yeah.

-DUNCAN:

-What would it cost for a normal tee?

Wooden tees would generally be about 5p each.

-So, what's £11.95 divided by 5p?

-Um...

220 or something like that?

So, you can have 220 wooden tees or one of these.

Some of the Dragons were turned off at the mere mention of the sport.

I don't play golf, I don't know anything about golf.

It's just unexciting

and I like to be excited by something I'm going to invest in.

If you combine golf with driving that downhill at speed

and clay pigeon shooting somehow then I might get interested.

As the Dragon with a bit more enthusiasm for the sport...

-Can I have a go?

-Yeah, certainly.

..Peter Jones was interested

in checking the product out for himself.

-I'd better stand back.

-I'll show you a proper golf swing now.

Peter, be careful.

-What happened to the tee then?

-It's gone.

But when it came to business,

the tee wasn't the only thing looking a little lost.

You don't look convinced you can sell enough of these

to develop a business, especially Travis.

But, OK. I'll tell you where I am. I'm out.

With the pitch declared below par,

there was only one thing for it for the golf-mad entrepreneurs.

Fancy a round? Quick nine, do you think?

Yeah, I think we've got time, let's go.

So far tonight, one business has already received

the financial backing they so desperately needed...

Thank you, thank you.

THEY LAUGH

For us to walk through the doors and get a cheque for £50,000...

-Yeah.

-..which we'll spend mostly on champagne.

THEY CHUCKLE

Will the Dragons be so impressed by any of these young start-ups?

You're either brave or delusional.

-I'm brave, I'm from Salford.

-Yeah.

-Do you have a lot of bad luck?

-Do you know?

As long as I sit in this chair and I just think people come in here

and think we've all got "Mug" written on our heads.

So, what you've invented is a very clever way of eating off the floor.

Kelly's just gazumped me.

Next up, an entrepreneur who is no stranger to the Den.

His first visit was back in 2011 when he was sent packing

over a product he'd invented for lorries.

Well, he's back, and this time, he means business.

Hello, Dragons. My name's Jim Jemison.

I'm here today seeking a £25,000 investment in return for

a 25% equity stake in my business, Stowaway Designs Limited.

Some of you may remember me from before.

I've had the privilege of pitching before you in 2011

when I brought on my pneumatic landing legs.

Although I didn't get a deal from the Dragons, I went away from that

with some valuable advice and successfully licensed that product.

It's had half a million pounds invested in it

but it is just about taking off.

We've got it in Morrisons and, basically, I'm waiting for royalties.

What we see before us here now is pop-up tables.

Everyone's got them at the moment and it's the new trend.

So, if I can just show you how it works. So, it runs off the hosepipe.

Basically, up it goes. AIR HISSES

If you turn your hosepipe on, it'll go up.

The patented technology is in that.

It's a twist-lock device and then once it's locked...

AIR HISSES

..that's it.

The market what it's for is outdoor gardens,

the holiday and leisure centres and we've got the cafes and bars

and we've also got school playgrounds interested in the plastic version.

That is the product, there are a lot of markets here

and I welcome the opportunity for your questions.

A sturdy pitch from Den veteran Jim Jemison from Salford.

He's looking for £25,000 for 25% of his business

making pop-up garden furniture.

Peter Jones is first to table some questions.

-Jim.

-Yes, Peter.

-Welcome back.

-Thank you.

You're either brave or delusional.

I'm brave, I'm from Salford. CHUCKLES

Yeah.

-I think it's ridiculous.

-Right, OK, that's fine.

And I think when you get past the practicality of seeing it,

it looks, "Oh, wow", but I think it's flawed.

OK.

-Do you want to know why I think it's flawed?

-I do, yes, please.

Because when you create a big table and it sits inside the decking,

it'll be fantastic,

because you press a button and the table comes up.

But the reality is you've now created a really annoying pit

of which your chair will rock forward.

I mean, literally, people, after a couple of drinks,

will be pushing their chair back and that'll be it.

Well, I don't think my demonstration unit does justice to the product.

With the bench, for example, we have a square table with two benches.

That comes up, that comes up, so the pit, what is a problem,

you have your feet in.

-This table is down, it's the decking that people walk over.

-It is, yes.

When it comes up, it's the decking that people have been walking over

that you're going to eat off.

In the decking example, yes.

So, what you've invented is a very clever way of eating off the floor.

Well, I...

THEY LAUGH

I'm not being funny, Piers, but the last laugh...

-If you eat your food off the table then I use a plate.

-Oh!

-Boom, boom.

But I do.

I don't know people who sit there and eat their food off the thing, yeah?

We've also got bird poo in the garden tables anyway.

-I can't design for that.

-That's very true.

Jim, I own a lodge on Lake Windermere and it's got decking.

-Yes.

-And I'm just thinking about my table and chairs.

So, I move my table round because the view changes.

And the sunshine moves.

Yeah, and the sunshine moves, so I don't understand why you'd want one.

It's for convenience, it's for Joe Public who's got a small yard,

and they just want some space on occasional use of a table.

The pressure's on as the criticism keeps on coming.

But Jim's charm is just about saving him from total annihilation.

Can Deborah Meaden find anything in the financial details

which'll make her invest?

How far have you got with this? This looks a bit prototype-y.

I've done more homework than I have physical

-but it's all fundamentally ready to go.

-And what would that sell for?

-£300.

-For one table?

-Yes.

So, you sell the whole decking unit and you bolt them together?

The first order I've got is for a gymnasium, and what the guys do...

-Sorry, does that answer my question?

-No, it doesn't, Deborah, I'm sorry.

What was my question?

About the cost and is that for one unit?

And do you bolt the units together?

Yes, you purchase your decking. At the point of purchase

-in the decking, they will offer you this product.

-OK, thank you.

And then I would then offer the installation of the bottom unit

so that goes in the price of the job.

So, yeah, I hope that answers your question, I'm sorry, Deborah.

But the issue you've got there is to install that means digging down.

-Two answers to this.

-It's not £300, you're looking at thousands.

It comes ready.

You dig a hole, that then is able to fit in

and it's removable in case of need of a repair.

But people aren't going to want to do that.

I mean, there are some wealthy people in this world

and sometimes they spend money on rubbish

but I can tell you, the average Joe is certainly never going to

pay £1,000 and they can't move a table, they can't move a bench.

Right, Starbucks and Costa Coffees.

They have three or four tables outside their area, and every night,

the staff have to go out to take it in and put it out in the mornings.

It takes the staff two minutes to take the tables in.

There's risks of injuries and it just helps...

Injuries? From lifting a table?

-KELLY:

-The risk comes after you've walked into it.

-PIERS: Dangerous job, working in a coffee shop.

-Oh, Jim. Jim...

Well, they can't accidentally pop up, that's the patented design.

You would never have that in a cafe,

you'd never have it in a small garden

because it's not just £300, it's a lot more.

I build multimillion-pound houses all over the world

and with all the money that some of these clients have,

they would never ever want that.

You know why? Because they've got space.

However...

..where it could work is on a boat.

Where you need to save space and boats,

you constantly need to save space, something like that,

that's really where you need to hit the market, is for yachts.

Jim, I'm fascinated by your patent

because actually I've got some friends who have got

a beautiful marble table, it's a marble floor,

and out of the middle of it, there's a raised table that comes out.

That would be an hydraulic system again,

it'll have to be for it being marble, it'll be quite heavy.

Well, I don't care.

Neither does anybody buying it.

All I know is it's doing exactly the same thing as yours

so how does that make your patent worth anything?

That is better.

-And that's why it is novel and patentable.

-Why? Why?

Because it's better because it's more reliable,

it's a low-pressure system, not hydraulic.

Hydraulics kill people, but the point is, this one,

once it's...an obstruction, it will stall.

So, when you've got a worry about children

playing in the gardens, for example,

then nobody wants a table in the garden that's hydraulic

that there's a risk of the toddler crawling to and being crushed.

But the child could never have got crushed

if you hadn't invented the table that comes up to start with.

-Good point.

-Thank you.

I like your good points, Duncan, thank you,

they're as good as Peter's.

-Are they?

-Very.

Was the best advice you got last time from me and Peter?

-KELLY:

-Don't worry about us in the middle then.

I'm not ignoring you, I welcome all your questions

and I love your feedback, I really do.

As long as I sit in this chair and I just think people try

and just come up with inventions of any sort and come in here

and think we've all got "Mug" written on our heads.

-Oh, no, I do not think that.

-I'll tell you where I am, I'm out.

Harsh words from an exasperated Kelly Hoppen as she becomes

the first Dragon to walk away from Stowaway.

And it looks as though Deborah Meaden

has also made up her mind.

The biggest problem you've got is that

I don't think it's going to get to mass market.

Listen, my friend's house, they've got lots of space,

but it's just a cool thing that they like moving up and down

and it's marble and it's beautiful and it's whatever,

but that's a whole different market.

This will never get to mass market, it's way too expensive,

so I'm really sorry but I won't be investing.

-No problem.

-I'm out.

-Thank you for that.

-Yeah, Jim, I think you've invented something no-one's going to buy.

-OK.

Um, so I'm out.

-I think you suffer from a syndrome called over-inventive syndrome.

-OK.

Well, I should be able to go away from this experience

-and invent something that you all want.

-Oh, please, don't!

Well, no, I'd love to see you again, Jim, I think you're good fun.

This is a serious business though, Duncan.

I mean it's a big business and no-one's selling the product.

-Sit down, invent something else and come back and see us.

-OK.

-OK?

-Until then, I'm out.

-Bless you.

The Dragons may be entertained but that's of no help at all

to Jim's prospects of gaining an investment.

Can Peter Jones put hilarity aside

and prove an unlikely saviour for the entrepreneur?

Peter, it's you.

Oh, Jimmy, Jim, Jim. It's a shame, really. Um...

-How can I convince you because...

-You can't cos it's bloody stupid.

No, you've all looked at it from your own houses.

You've got to come up with something that's half-decent.

-Jim, come on.

-Joe Public...

-Jim! This is...

The reality is that there's too many flaws in it.

Floors or flaws?

-THEY CHUCKLE Boom, boom.

-See?

Jim, you can do better than this.

-You've wasted three years of your life.

-You said that last time.

DUNCAN LAUGHS

That's six years now.

It's nice to see you again, Jim,

but I won't be investing and I'm going to say that I'm out.

-That's fine.

-But I look forward to our next time.

-Thank you very much for your time. DUNCAN:

-Nice seeing you again.

-Bye.

-Don't forget to press the button, Jim.

-Have I?

-Yeah, on the left.

-No, you've gone past it, Jim.

-Is it a pop-up button?

-That's it.

-We're going down now, aren't we?

-Just mind the trap door.

Thank you very much for your time.

So, it wasn't a case of second time lucky for Jim

as history repeats itself and he leaves the Den with nothing.

Take Jim to the sixth floor, please.

JIM LAUGHS

And keep him there until he comes up with something half-decent.

JIM WHISTLES

Watch this space, you'll be sitting at one of them one of these days

and I would love a Dragon to be sat at one of my tables thinking,

"Ooh, this is one of Jim's."

Many entrepreneurs that come into the Den are accused

of reinventing the wheel.

Next was retired aerospace engineer Jenan Kazim who thought

it was time that the trusty old umbrella had a revamp.

My name is Jenan Kazim, I am the inventor of KAZbrella

and this umbrella, when it is open,

is exactly the same as a commercial umbrella

and when you close it, this umbrella basically turns inside out.

Do you have a lot of bad luck?

This was one entrepreneur who didn't subscribe

to the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" school of thought.

What is wrong with existing umbrellas?

They've been around for nearly 2,000-3,000 years

and they haven't changed.

Hmmm, quite a few things haven't changed for 2,000 years

because they didn't need to.

Like chopsticks, that's a good example.

Despite Piers Linney's attempt to rain on his parade, Jenan was firm

in his belief that the conventional umbrella had had its day.

If you walk to your car with a conventional umbrella,

you need to open your door, exposing yourself to the rain

then go into your car with a wet canopy

that you need to sit next to you.

I think this is brilliant because getting into a car with my hair

when it's raining, I've often wished it would go the other way.

I quite like it.

I really, really want one, not because I have a problem

with my hair when I get in the car but because it looks great.

But the positivity was short-lived as Piers Linney thought

he'd spotted a major flaw in the product's design.

Fundamentally, what you're going to end up with is a mouldy umbrella.

The water's all going to end up on the inside.

If you're me, you'll put it in the boot of the car

and two weeks later, it's raining again, where's my umbrella?

You go and open it and there's a mushroom hanging off it.

But Jenan just got himself into deep water

when he tried to explain how to stop the rot from setting in.

If you want to actually make this dry,

when you walk into your house, you open it,

just lean it against the wall and have it open to evaporate through.

It's the same as that umbrella then.

Actually, in all fairness, it's worse

because that umbrella, you lean on its tip, which is the right way up

so it balances, and this umbrella,

you're trying to lean it on a handle that doesn't balance at all.

In the end, no amount of umbrellas could have provided shelter

from the torrent of outs that came Jenan's way.

It's a bit like reinventing the wheel, really.

On one side, it's better. On the other hand, it's worse.

I don't think there's a market for it.

It's over-engineered

and that will make it more costly for you to produce.

I'm out.

But at least his pitch inspired a Dragon sing-along.

How does that song go with the umbrella?

# I'm singin' in the rain

# Just singin' in the rain. #

Every year, we get lots of applications

from entrepreneurs with products for children

and they're usually fashionable, functional or fun.

Well, Effie Moss thinks her bespoke designs tick all of those boxes.

Let's see if the Dragons think they're worthy of investment.

Good afternoon.

My name's Effie Moss and I'm here today to ask for £50,000

for a 10% stake in my company, Just For Tiny People.

Just For Tiny People was established 17 months ago.

And to date, we've had the pleasure of hand-crafting 800 magical teepees

and 1,600 accessories.

During our first year of business, we generated sales of £124,000.

Every teepee that we've made has a bespoke element to it,

whether that's a degree of personalisation,

the fabric selected or just a very excited parent.

We now offer a range of products to help accessorise

the child's bedroom, playroom or even the living room.

We want parents to feel that they are part of the process

in creating a magical space for their child

and we want the child to have the perfect place for play.

During the past 17 months,

we've established a strong online collaborative community via Facebook,

which has helped us to establish our brand.

70% of the sales generated are actually as a result of

the collaboration through our Facebook community

and 30% as a result of our online website

which was launched in August last year and is actually, primarily,

one of the areas where we'd like to use the investment.

I'm also really pleased to be able to share with you that

I have my very own set of Dragons, five children,

who sit on my pretend board of directors, aged three to nine,

who are more than happy to tell me when something just isn't right

but unfortunately they haven't £50,000 to invest. Thank you so much.

Could I come and have a look at them?

Yeah, of course you can, you're more than welcome.

Bespoke teepees and accessories for children,

an idea Effie Moss is hoping will capture the Dragons' imagination.

She's looking for £50,000 for 10% of her business.

But Peter Jones has some doubts about the product's proportions.

The age range that you're targeting, what is that?

The magical teepee can go up to age 11

and the midi teepee is for smaller children aged one to four.

-So, you go up to 11?

-11, yeah.

-Really?

-You haven't seen the size of my children.

-Yeah.

To be fair, with the magical teepee, I sit in there with my daughter

and that's one of the things we advocate -

-that a parent could get in there as well.

-Really? You can get in there?

Yeah, I can. I'm quite short when I've not got big heels on.

Can you show me?

Do you want me to take my shoes off in there?

Just want to see what it is size-wise so I can get an idea.

Yeah, sure.

-It normally opens up and then Alice is here with me.

-OK.

I can't get out now. Thank you.

Thanks, Peter. Thank you.

I don't know if I can do it as lady-like, unfortunately.

-Thank you so much.

-That was very elegantly done, Effie.

-Thank you.

-You said that you were on Facebook.

-Yes.

-How many likes have you got?

62,500.

-62,500?

-Yes.

Wow.

OK, that's thrown me.

-Um, 800 teepees?

-Yes.

-Generated sales in the last year of £124,000?

-Yes.

-What margin would you make on that?

-Gross margin was £86,000.

-And what was your overall profit?

-Net profit was £48,000.

And the company now, what does it have in its assets at the moment?

Fabric, etc, we have about £10,000 of fabric.

The bank balance itself at the moment, it's around £10,000.

I don't owe any money to anybody and everybody's paid to date.

And your forecast you think that you're going to achieve this year.

Well, the forecast for this year for sales was £300,000

and that was based on making around 40 teepees a month.

The big teepees here that I call the magical teepees are £145

and the midi teepee, which is the smaller one, they're £100.

-We've actually smashed projection this year so far.

-Well done.

-Thank you.

-I think that's really good.

Effie's impressive figures have provided a credible answer

to Peter Jones' questions.

But Kelly Hoppen wants to understand more about the market.

Who is your biggest competition?

We've got Cath Kidston might sell a teepee

in the much lower price range and we have Next as well.

I think we're different because people are allowed to actually

choose from a set of fabrics.

We have a set of designs that they can choose from.

So, I would go online

and I would be able to see a whole range of fabrics and then what?

Do I just slide them across or I click on them

and I can create my own design?

Yeah, well, that's where I'd like to use the investment,

to get to that point. At the moment, it's a little bit more laborious.

-And what percentage of returns do you get?

-I don't.

-Not at all?

No, I've only ever had one return and that was

because the lady wanted the teepee to behave in a kind of pop-up style,

like a pop-up tent, but it's a teepee,

it doesn't behave in that way, so that's my only one.

Why do you need £50,000 of anybody's money?

You seem to be doing absolutely fantastic.

One of the areas is that we turned away, last year for Christmas,

-482 orders cos we couldn't fulfil them.

-And why was that?

Because we just didn't have the processes

or the sheer capacity to be able to deal with them.

So, my main focus this year was actually rather than running at it

and try and generate more sales,

was actually make sure I have the process behind it that I can scale.

You know, I'm not putting it on my ladies at home

who are trying to push things through a sewing machine,

I've got a proper sustainable process than I can use.

-And what's your biggest problem?

-A little part of me thinks...

I was going to say knowledge.

I always worry about whether can I take it far enough?

Can I identify all the opportunities that need to be made with it?

Effie, you've done amazingly well.

I mean, unbelievable, and you're almost faultless,

it's a bit annoying, really.

Thank you, Peter.

But...

There is a big but for me, the fact that could this be a million,

two-million, three-million-pound business?

Could this be really mega-successful?

I'm not convinced that it could in terms of the size of the market,

but then you're going to turn around and say, knowing you,

-"Actually, I haven't even touched the international marketplace."

-No. I haven't.

-Is that what you're about to say?

-I'm about to say that, yeah.

-Yeah.

Damn.

It seems the entrepreneur can't put a foot wrong in the Den.

Will Kelly Hoppen think the investment opportunity

is as cute as Effie's teepees?

When my kids were growing up, they always loved make-believe,

and we used to sort of create tents out of blankets and sheets

and whatever,

and I watch my step-grandchildren now do it exactly the same

and I think the very fact that it's got

this hand-crafted element to it, I think it's got a lot of legs.

I'd like to make you an offer.

Oh, thank you.

Um, I'd like to offer you all the money

-but I'd like 20% of the business.

-OK.

OK, thank you very much, that's really lovely, thank you.

Effie, that is an effing good offer.

Yes, I know, I'm going to run over and cuddle Kelly in a moment.

-Do you see what I wrote down there?

-Sorry?

-What does it say?

"50,000, 25%."

50,000 for 25% and Kelly's just gazumped me.

Kelly Hoppen tries to take the initiative and steal a lead

on her rival investors with a highly competitive offer.

Will Peter Jones try to match it or even better it?

I don't know whether I'm getting sentimental in my old age

or anything else but I'm feeling at the moment that...I don't think

I'd be the perfect investor for you.

I feel that you've got an incredible offer and I don't know

-what's in the water but I'm not going to compete with it today.

-OK.

I think there are better Dragons that will do a better job for you

so I'm going to say I'm out, but wish you the best of luck.

In an unusual turn of events, Peter Jones has stepped aside

to pave the way for a union between the entrepreneur and Kelly Hoppen.

But Deborah Meaden doesn't appear to be as accommodating.

If you sit and look at this and think,

"Well, actually, I'm going to make teepees,"

then I am going to say, "Honestly, you don't need me,

"just carry on doing what you're doing and get bigger."

If you want to create a lot of product around it which turns

Just For Tiny People into a destination for anybody

who's looking for their gifts or their party stuff

or their Christmas stuff, now that is much more interesting.

I think I like the idea of that.

I think with all the other things we're starting to do and look at,

I think it's becoming more than just a teepee product.

-Right, well, I'm going to make you an offer.

-Thanks, Deborah.

So, I'm going to offer you all of the money...

but I want 25% of the business.

OK, thank you, Deborah, thank you so much.

So, another offer, but one demanding a higher equity stake

than that of Kelly Hoppen.

Time for Piers Linney to make up his mind.

I think you're brilliant.

I can't make a better offer than other people have made.

Good luck with it, but I'm out.

Well, I did write down "offer £50,000 for 25%," but...

..I'm actually happy to match Kelly's offer.

£50,000 for 20%.

And if Kelly wants, I'm happy to go halfers with Kelly

so you get two Dragons for the price of one.

No, I'd be happy to share it with Duncan

but I'd be equally happy to do it on my own.

OK.

Yeah, same here.

OK. I honestly didn't think I'd find myself in this situation

so thank you so much to all of you.

It's really very kind, um...

SHE CHUCKLES NERVOUSLY

Um, I think what I'd like to do is probably go with Deborah.

I think, if that's OK, I would like to go with Deborah.

I would be delighted. Fantastic!

-Thank you so much.

-Excellent.

25%? I don't get that.

Surprise all round as Effie rejects the best price offer

in favour of a partnership with Deborah Meaden.

-Thank you.

-With pleasure, well done.

She leaves behind a Den of rather bemused Dragons.

-Well, well, well.

-Wow.

-Do you know what? I wasn't expecting that.

-DUNCAN:

-No, I don't get that.

Our offer was a lower equity and there was two Dragons

so I just don't get it that she thinks Deborah's better than me and Kelly added together.

She clearly wanted Deborah but I think, honestly,

I'm well pissed off because I got a really good one there.

I went in there and I didn't have a Dragon in mind.

I chose Deborah because I felt that she understood

what I was trying to do with the business.

I just felt I had confidence in her vision

so I think I've made the right decision.

So, Effie secured the cash she needed with Deborah Meaden

beating an unimpressed Kelly Hoppen to the investment.

And that brings proceedings in the Den to a close for another series.

There's a sense of recovery in the economy

and it's been a buoyant season in the Den.

One in which we've seen the innovative, the ingenious

and sometimes the implausible.

If this is going where I think it's going, I'm getting pissed.

-Whoo!

-Whoo-hoo!

That is hideous.

You lost me, you're not going to win me back.

Tell me what dog food tastes like.

Don't let go.

THEY LAUGH

Boom, boom, boom.

-Oh, we needed that.

-I'd like to make you an offer.

-So, I'll make you an offer.

-£40,000, 35%, that's my offer.

Do you want a job?

-Whoa.

-Pressure's on.

Deborah, you're out. You're out!

How much money have you spent on getting it to this point?

-About £90,000.

-Why?

What do you think of it?

It's completely ridiculous and I'm out.

I accept Deborah's offer.

I'm allowed to be excited. Brilliant.

THEY LAUGH

What just happened?