Episode 7 Dragons' Den


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Episode 7

Budding entrepreneurs pitch business ideas to multimillionaires. A former panel beater hopes to seal a deal with the Dragons with his innovative nail gel product.


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Transcript


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Tonight on Dragons' Den...

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It's bordering on the ridiculous.

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I disagree with him.

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You've come in, you said "This is quicker than anything else."

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And I know it's not.

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I'm just saying to myself, he's not here for the money.

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That's not actually correct.

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Which bit of that picture

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would you think that any sane investor would get?

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That's really clever, that's brilliant.

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That's the most ridiculous thing

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that's ever come into the Den that's got investment.

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Welcome to Dragons' Den.

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It's here the business is done.

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Once those lift doors open,

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entrepreneurs' fortunes can be made or their dreams can be shattered.

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First into the Den is a Londoner Dan Hubert,

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an entrepreneur on an upward trajectory.

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I don't want just a sounding board, I want a springboard, as well.

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So it's that person who can put some propane into my rocket.

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And Dan is aiming high when it comes to the valuation of his company.

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I'm prepared to defend my valuation all the way.

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They will probably scoff a little bit,

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but it's understanding the true depth our business

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and then the true potential.

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But will the Dragons,

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notoriously fiery when it comes to a business' price tag,

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be convinced his enterprise is worth it?

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My name's Dan Hubert, I'm the founder of AppyParking.

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Today, I'm here to ask for £200,000 in return for 2% equity.

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Drivers are currently lost when it comes to parking.

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And as a result of all this confusion,

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the average Brit in their lifetime wastes 347 days

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and £37,000 on fuel, looking for that elusive parking spot.

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AppyParking isn't like any other parking app.

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Imagine being able to drive into any city

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and understand every parking rule, even on single yellow lines.

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Imagine being disabled, or owning an electric car or motorbike,

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and having every destination mapped out in the palm of your hand.

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Imagine being able to choose between on and off-street,

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or the cheapest or the nearest.

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What if the roads had sensors

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and they told you if there was a free bay or not,

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and you could drive into that free bay and your car automatically

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took a payment?

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What if the average parking time was reduced from 20 minutes

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down to 30 seconds?

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AppyParking is all of these solutions.

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AppyParking is available via a free website

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or award-winning app,

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that gets downloaded tens of thousands of times each month.

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We also license a parking data feed,

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which can be consumed by fleet companies and car manufacturers.

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The European parking market is worth £33 billion, and in the UK,

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900 billion by 2025.

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Your investment will go towards making AppyParking

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into the world's-best parking marketplace,

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saving drivers time, money, stress and parking tickets.

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Thank you for listening, and I look forward to your questions.

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A finely-tuned pitch from Dan Hubert.

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-Thank you.

-Don't worry.

-A parking ticket?

-It's not real, don't worry.

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The dapper entrepreneur behind the app

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that aims to solve our parking dilemmas.

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He's offering just 2% equity

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in exchange for a hefty £200,000 investment.

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-Oh, no, not another one.

-Not another one!

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THEY CHUCKLE

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Sarah Willingham wants to get a grasp of how his app operates.

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So, did you say you've got national coverage now?

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Well, it's 11 cities.

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So how does it work,

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because parking, it's not the same in every street,

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-in every corner, in every city?

-Yeah.

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Yeah, so we have two levels of data, so the consumer app, basically,

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has pins, like, you know, here's a spot, here's a spot.

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The prices, it's got a pay-by-phone provider linked into it.

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And it's got zones as well, so every street is a control parking zone.

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Currently, you can say, yes, there is parking on this street?

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Yes, we are mapping every on-street and off-street car park,

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and I can show you exactly the spot that's right for you, for price,

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-time of day, that sort of stuff.

-Because I use apps, at the moment,

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when I'm in London, that tell me where my nearest parking is.

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That actually doesn't give you controlled hours...

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No, no, absolutely, it's nowhere near the sophistication

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-of yours at all.

-All they are is a payment gateway.

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We have a payment gateway built into our parking knowledge.

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There's another thing I want to understand about this model,

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which is, how do you...

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Are you able to tell me where there is an empty parking space?

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-Yes.

-How do you do that?

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So, this is an on-street sensor,

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so we've just rolled out 72 of these into Coventry,

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we've put every single disabled bay in Coventry.

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So the answer is, you can do this by using sensors?

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-Yes.

-OK. Until every parking space has a sensor,

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what is the other way you can tell if there's an empty parking space?

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We just currently did a solution with Westminster,

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Vodafone and Pimlico Plumbers,

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and this basically turns vehicles into sensors.

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OK, I grant you that's really clever, that's brilliant.

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A credible app and cutting-edge sensor technology

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make a positive impression on online innovator Nick Jenkins.

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But has Deborah Meaden sensed a business that will burn money?

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You're still in development,

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and you're obviously looking to raise 200,000 today.

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How much more money do you think it's actually going to take?

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Right, OK, so we would probably need about 20...

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It'd be about three million.

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You must have gone quite a long way with this already.

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-Yeah, we've raised 1.2 million.

-Where from?

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From angels and then from institutional investors as well.

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-So you've got institutional investors on board?

-Yes.

-OK, right.

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What was the last valuation you brought money into the company at?

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-Four million, basically.

-Four million, OK.

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OK, do you know how this works in Dragons' Den?

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Essentially, we're expected to give our time, contacts and expertise...

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-Mhm.

-And in return for that, you know what,

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kind of don't expect to get a valuation

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which is twice as much as the last round.

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So, just to be clear, that's been a year or more of progress.

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OK, what are your figures in terms of revenue?

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-So we're projected for half a million this year.

-OK.

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And then next year, we're projected for two million,

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and then the year after that, five million.

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-Five million profit?

-Yes.

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It was a four million profit, it'll be a million running costs.

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Wow.

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Confident financial projections keep Nick Jenkins onside.

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For now.

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But has Deborah Meaden been able to get past her concerns

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over Dan's cash-guzzling business model?

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It's quite a resource-hungry business, isn't it?

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In terms of building this thing.

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I think you've got a big mountain to climb.

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I've invested in, you know, big, uber websites, I get what it takes.

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I genuinely think that your estimation

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of how much you want,

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in my experience, it takes twice as much and twice as long.

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You're going to need a lot more cash than it's ever going to interest me.

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I won't be investing, I'm out.

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Deborah Meaden becomes the first Dragon to break cover

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and state her position.

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Can Sarah Willingham find a place for the parking app

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in her online business portfolio?

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I think it's really good, I think you're obviously very, very good.

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I mean...but you don't doubt that for a minute either.

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I think, for me, it's about finding businesses that I can add value to.

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-Yeah.

-With people that I can work with that actually need my help.

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-Mm.

-I love that.

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And that's not who you are.

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You've got to go out and raise lots more money,

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so either I continue to invest as a very passive investor,

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or I get diluted by an enormous amount very, very quickly.

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Yes.

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It's not for me, I'm out.

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Sarah Willingham joins Deborah Meaden in exiting the deal,

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with concerns this isn't a business

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that would benefit from her hands-on approach.

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The £10 million valuation is clearly an issue in the Den.

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Can Touker Suleyman find a way to drive through a deal?

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To get a Dragon on board, you'd have to really look at your evaluation

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because hopefully we'll add some value.

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And I'm just saying to myself, "He's not here for the money."

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That's not actually correct.

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So are you willing to give up 15% of your business for 200,000?

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-No.

-Well, exactly.

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We're all impressed with the technology.

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But...I feel, uh,

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this is just a passive investment you're looking for.

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And for that reason, Dan, I'm not going to invest in you and I'm out.

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With the entrepreneur unwilling to negotiate,

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Touker Suleyman also puts the brakes on a deal.

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Peter Jones, with his powerful black book of contacts in the world

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of technology, has so far remained silent.

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Time for some nifty manoeuvring.

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How much equity have you got yourself in the business?

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I've got 46.85 or something.

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So it wouldn't affect or offend your other shareholders

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if you decided to dilute yourself.

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Just to prove Touker's point.

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-Mm-hmm.

-So why would that be such a big thing for you?

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Yeah, that's a valid question.

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And I guess it really depends on sort of...limits.

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Well, Dan, I'm going to test that limit.

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And the reason why I'm going to test that limit is because

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I... I like it a lot, I think you're onto something.

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But there is a risk to anything here,

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and there are many companies such as yourselves, as you will know,

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that, sadly,

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don't get anywhere.

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I'm not convinced that you're one of those.

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I genuinely believe you're going to get somewhere.

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This is a marketplace where I'm actively involved.

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I do a lot of work with Google,

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I've got very good relationships there,

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and I think that where you're going,

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those relationships will be tested,

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and sometimes a friendly face that's been around,

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that knows and has those contacts, that could not just open the doors,

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but actually conclude those transactions and deals very quickly,

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will propel the business faster than others.

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So I'm going to offer you all of the money.

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£200,000.

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But I want 20% of the business.

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-Uh...I appreciate...

-And I'd be happy to share it

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if Nick is interested. Because I think Nick's still in.

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A racy offer from the Dragon

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known for his scepticism about high valuations.

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He's boldly asking for 18% more equity than Dan is offering.

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Will Nick Jenkins take him up on his offer to go halves?

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You know what, you've got the right to say no, here we go.

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Give you half the money for 10% and share it with Peter.

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-Or you can do it all with Peter for 20%.

-Thank you.

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And I think I would definitely prefer Nick involved

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-because I think Nick adds immeasurable value.

-Yeah.

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And both of us, working with you directly,

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-is that propulsion that you're looking for.

-Yeah.

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Do you want to go to the back of the room and have a think about it?

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Yeah? If you want to...have a think.

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Finally, a bid for Dan's business

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from both Peter Jones and Nick Jenkins.

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But their equity demands of 10% each

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is ten times the 2% that Dan originally offered.

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-WHISPERS:

-I'd be amazed...

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There's no chance he'll accept 20 in a million years, no way.

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It's an honour to be offered that by two Dragons.

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I think, in terms of

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20% for 200,000,

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I'm going to have to say no to that.

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What I would put back to you,

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or both of you,

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is 5% for 200,000.

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So 5% each?

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No.

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-5% in total?

-Yeah.

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An audacious counteroffer back from the entrepreneur

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who wants Peter Jones and Nick Jenkins to share a 5% stake.

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Would you do 7.5%?

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Will the two Dragons be prepared to compromise

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at 15% less than they originally offered?

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I just wondered, if we dropped to 15%...

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I can't do 15, I'm sorry.

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OK. Dan, well,

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-I think...it doesn't get me excited as much.

-Yeah.

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-If I was sharing it with Nick - it's 2.5% each. It's...

-Yup.

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Are you sure, Dan?

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Yeah.

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Thank you very much for your time.

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I'll give you back your polite notice and hope you don't regret it.

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Thank you very much.

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It takes nerve to turn down the multimillionaire investors,

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but Dan, who has opted to decline Dragon capital,

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leaves the Den still holding all his equity.

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I'm not sure I've got any regrets right now.

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You know, every percent counts in any company.

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Next into the Den is Mustafa Mehmet from Kent.

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An entrepreneur on a mission.

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I want to make a mark and a difference,

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and be a leader at something, rather than just do a regular job.

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I've always kind of been that driven and that ambitious.

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And he'll do what ever it takes to get investment

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in his innovative product for the beauty industry.

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So if they really start giving me a hard time,

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I'm just going to fight back and stand my ground, stick to my guns.

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But will Mustafa's business idea put him in the Dragon firing line?

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Hello, Dragons. My name is Mustafa Mehmet.

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I'm the founder of a company called Well Gel, London Ltd.

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And I'm here today to ask for £70,000

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in exchange for 35% of my company.

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A new start-up company.

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Well Gel London Ltd is a unique, all-in-one, natural,

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non-toxic gel nail system.

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Aisha's going to demonstrate the ease of application

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as I'm doing my pitch.

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It's completely chemical-free,

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and the idea of it is to provide a faster,

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healthy alternative to the gel nail industry.

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With only an application time of 15 minutes,

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as opposed to 40 minutes with conventional systems

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on the market already.

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The industry today, just in the gel nail market,

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is worth 453 million.

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So it's vastly escalating by 35% every year.

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And it's become the number one beauty selling product.

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It's overtaken lipstick sales.

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We have sparked an interest on Facebook.

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We have 2,396 followers.

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But you're looking to potentially invest in a company that wants to

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make a change in the industry and lead by example.

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With a new, natural alternative product.

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So, remember the next time, ladies, you have your nails done,

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don't just be gel, be Well Gel.

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A polished pitch from Kent-based Mustafa Mehmet.

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Which he hopes will nail him a £70,000 investment.

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Thank you. Can I see your nails?

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In return, he's offering a 35% stake in his business,

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supplying gel manicure products with a natural twist.

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A simple proposition.

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But Deborah Meaden is a little perplexed.

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I'm fascinated.

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How did you get into nails?

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Forgive me, but you don't look...

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You don't look like the target market.

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No. So I used to be a car sprayer before.

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-A car sprayer?

-A car sprayer and panel beater.

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And I used to customise cars.

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-Brilliant.

-Went from spraying cars for McLaren Mercedes, Ferrari,

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Aston Martin, to wanting to understand why,

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when I spray a panel, does the paint even stay on the panel.

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So I studied rheology, which is the study of paint.

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And, to me, this is just another paint system

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and my surface is a nail,

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rather than a car door, or the paint on your walls.

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OK, but fill in that gap.

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At what point did you sit there and think,

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spraying your Ferraris and Aston Martins, "I know what I'll do,

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"I'll create some nail gels."

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-I mean, how did that happen?

-So I went to the salon with my sister.

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She was getting her nails done.

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I'd been there for about 40 minutes.

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The back of my throat was getting irritated.

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I was feeling like I would go out for air because of the environment.

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And I was just looking at the way they achieve an end finish.

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They use three to four different components

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to end up with one finish.

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So I thought, "I could re-engineer this and make it a better product."

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I think that's absolutely brilliant.

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Is this your product? Have you actually created...?

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This is my developed product.

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OK. Wow.

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The entrepreneur and his product

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have made a positive early impression on Deborah Meaden.

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Now, Nick Jenkins wants to know

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exactly how speedy Mustafa's manicures really are.

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How much quicker is this than the existing method?

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It's a 15-minute application.

0:20:170:20:19

So, on average, if you do a manicure and a gel application,

0:20:190:20:22

it takes an experienced manicurist half an hour to 40 minutes.

0:20:220:20:27

So more than twice as fast?

0:20:270:20:29

-Yes.

-You can double your turnover from the same premises?

0:20:290:20:32

Yes. Some of them actually use it as an express gel.

0:20:320:20:36

-Right.

-Alongside their existing gel product.

0:20:360:20:39

You've come in and said, "This is quicker than anything else."

0:20:390:20:42

Mm-hmm. It is.

0:20:420:20:44

And I know it's not.

0:20:440:20:46

The nail technicians who have been in the industry for 20 years

0:20:460:20:49

-have told me it is.

-But it's not,

0:20:490:20:51

because I know that there are other products out there

0:20:510:20:54

that loads of people have, that I've had, where you go in,

0:20:540:20:57

you've got to be really quick, it's one coat, cure, out.

0:20:570:21:02

That is your product.

0:21:020:21:03

So there's...there was that claim.

0:21:030:21:05

So...is your point of difference

0:21:050:21:10

the environmental bit?

0:21:100:21:11

My point of difference is

0:21:130:21:14

the environmental bit is completely non-toxic,

0:21:140:21:17

and expectant mothers can wear it.

0:21:170:21:19

So I'm the only one that can literally state -

0:21:190:21:21

and it has it written on the bottle -

0:21:210:21:22

that it's suitable for pregnant women.

0:21:220:21:25

Mustafa calmly covers all the bases.

0:21:270:21:30

And seems to be keeping Sarah Willingham onside.

0:21:300:21:33

But is Deborah Meaden convinced

0:21:360:21:38

by his claim that the product is non-toxic and natural?

0:21:380:21:42

So, Mustafa, it's taken out all those nasty...

0:21:450:21:49

Bad stuff in the existing product?

0:21:490:21:52

-Yes?

-Yes. There are no carcinogenic materials in there.

0:21:520:21:57

It's not a solvent-based product.

0:21:570:21:59

So you've got the facts that can back that up?

0:21:590:22:02

Yes, it's been SGS-tested.

0:22:020:22:05

Which... SGS is an independent body that tests chemicals.

0:22:050:22:09

They do their own due diligence.

0:22:090:22:11

I've got the documents to say it is non-toxic.

0:22:110:22:13

Actually, I might read the document, if you don't mind.

0:22:130:22:16

And by the way, non-toxic is very different to natural.

0:22:160:22:18

Natural, yeah.

0:22:180:22:20

-I'll find it.

-Oh, sorry. It's, um...

0:22:230:22:26

Cos it's split in two, sorry.

0:22:260:22:29

-Pass it to me...

-There you go, it's through there.

-..and I will find it.

0:22:290:22:32

-It's through there.

-Thank you.

0:22:320:22:35

With the paperwork firmly in the hands of the queen of due diligence,

0:22:350:22:39

fashion retail impresario Touker Suleyman

0:22:390:22:42

now wants to take the nail industry innovator to task

0:22:420:22:45

over how he'll fund his new business.

0:22:450:22:48

This is something that you'd like to start?

0:22:510:22:53

This is something that I'm really passionate about...

0:22:530:22:56

So if you start this...

0:22:560:22:57

-Yeah?

-..as a start-up...

-Yeah?

-..how are you going to pay yourself?

0:22:570:23:01

Erm...through the investment that I'm seeking today.

0:23:030:23:07

Yeah, but 70,000 is not going to get you very far.

0:23:070:23:09

It'll get the product out on the market, to do beauty shows,

0:23:100:23:13

-trade shows.

-Show me an order.

0:23:130:23:15

I haven't got an order. I've got an interest.

0:23:150:23:18

-But that's why I'm here.

-Listen, I'm an expert, all due respect.

0:23:180:23:21

You're going to struggle.

0:23:210:23:23

You will struggle. And I think 70,000 is not enough.

0:23:230:23:28

You're going to need...

0:23:280:23:30

300,000-400,000

0:23:300:23:32

to have any chance of getting this out there.

0:23:320:23:35

You've got to have other money.

0:23:350:23:37

I don't believe, apart from money, that I can add any value to this.

0:23:370:23:41

And for that reason, I'm out.

0:23:430:23:45

The cost of bringing his product to market

0:23:460:23:49

loses Mustafa his first Dragon.

0:23:490:23:51

Will technology tycoon Peter Jones see the USP in the product?

0:23:530:23:58

Do you own the rights to the formulation?

0:24:010:24:03

So I own...50% of the formulation,

0:24:030:24:06

which is the important part.

0:24:060:24:08

It's been co-developed with a laboratory in China.

0:24:080:24:11

So half of this is owned by somebody else?

0:24:110:24:14

By the laboratory.

0:24:140:24:15

It's...it doesn't hit me as an investment for me personally.

0:24:170:24:21

And I think it's something that's got to hit with you.

0:24:210:24:23

And you've got to get excited about it.

0:24:230:24:26

It almost seems too good to be true, as well.

0:24:260:24:29

So there's quite a lot going on.

0:24:290:24:30

And if another Dragon invests and it becomes successful,

0:24:310:24:34

then I'll just going to end up being Well Gel.

0:24:340:24:37

But I'm going to say that I'm out.

0:24:370:24:39

I similarly feel as though I struggle...

0:24:440:24:46

I need to see what I think I can do to help.

0:24:460:24:48

And I'm struggling to...

0:24:500:24:52

Struggling to see what I can do.

0:24:520:24:54

Wish you all the best of luck, but I'm out.

0:24:550:24:58

Three Dragons down.

0:24:580:25:00

Sarah Willingham had earlier reservations about Mustafa's claim

0:25:010:25:05

that his varnish is the quickest-drying on the market.

0:25:050:25:08

Has she heard anything to change her mind?

0:25:080:25:11

On this particular product, I just...

0:25:150:25:18

I just can't get there

0:25:180:25:19

because I don't think it's faster than others on the market.

0:25:190:25:23

And I think there is so much competition out there already,

0:25:240:25:28

doing what you do.

0:25:280:25:31

It's not an investment for me, so I'm out.

0:25:310:25:33

Sarah Willingham also exits the deal,

0:25:360:25:39

leaving Mustafa hanging onto hopes of investment by his fingernails.

0:25:390:25:44

Deborah Meaden has studied the paperwork

0:25:450:25:48

and there's something amiss.

0:25:480:25:50

So when you talked about it being safe and natural,

0:25:550:25:58

completely, it says here it's not carcinogenic.

0:25:580:26:01

-Yeah.

-So that is absolutely right.

0:26:010:26:04

I wasn't expecting to read words like "harmful if swallowed,

0:26:060:26:10

"absorbed through skin or inhaled.

0:26:100:26:12

"Causes eye, skin and respiratory tract irritation".

0:26:120:26:16

Why would I read was like that on a really safe and natural product?

0:26:160:26:19

So, most products, if they're swallowed or put on the skin

0:26:220:26:25

for a long length of time,

0:26:250:26:27

would irritate the skin, depending on someone's allergies.

0:26:270:26:30

No, not...not at the level of natural...

0:26:300:26:33

I thought we were talking about a safe, natural product.

0:26:330:26:37

"Use neoprene gloves,

0:26:370:26:38

"chemical goggles should be used in the combination

0:26:380:26:41

"with a full face shield."

0:26:410:26:43

Mm. They're generics of most paint products.

0:26:430:26:46

You need to wear gloves, you need to wear eye protection.

0:26:460:26:48

You can't use words of, "this is a non-toxic product"

0:26:480:26:52

when it is a toxic product.

0:26:520:26:54

They don't say on a non-toxic product, "Keep individual calm,

0:26:540:26:58

"get medical attention immediately."

0:26:580:27:00

I assure you that is just a generic format for any paint product

0:27:000:27:03

on the market, whether it's water-based...

0:27:030:27:05

You didn't say this is safer than the other paint products.

0:27:050:27:10

You said it was non-toxic.

0:27:100:27:12

So, on the nail,

0:27:120:27:14

not the skin,

0:27:140:27:15

-it's non-toxic.

-Yeah, but...no.

0:27:150:27:18

This is actually saying that,

0:27:180:27:20

heated up to a certain heat and if there's any mist or any spillage,

0:27:200:27:24

it is toxic.

0:27:240:27:26

Like petrol is at a fuel station.

0:27:260:27:28

If it's heated up at a certain temperature...

0:27:280:27:30

Everything's got a flash point.

0:27:300:27:32

I'm sorry, you're now changing the story

0:27:320:27:35

that started completely natural and non-toxic.

0:27:350:27:37

And you're now saying, "Well, actually, yes,

0:27:370:27:39

"but, you know, in the real world out there everything has a..."

0:27:390:27:42

No, no, I'm just trying to address what you've asked me.

0:27:420:27:45

It's not what you told me it was.

0:27:450:27:47

And the bit that you misled me on

0:27:480:27:50

is the bit that really, really had my interest.

0:27:500:27:54

I'm glad I read that. But I won't be investing.

0:27:540:27:57

I'm out.

0:27:570:27:58

The entrepreneur may have stood his ground,

0:28:010:28:04

but ultimately he failed to convince a disillusioned Deborah Meaden

0:28:040:28:08

to invest in his start-up.

0:28:080:28:10

-Thank you very much.

-Good luck.

0:28:100:28:12

He leaves the Den with nothing but a belief that he's been misunderstood.

0:28:120:28:16

Deborah made some harsh comments about it being

0:28:180:28:21

you know, not non-toxic in relation to the skin.

0:28:210:28:25

The product's for nails.

0:28:250:28:27

You know, it doesn't damage the nail.

0:28:270:28:29

I stick to my guns.

0:28:290:28:31

I shall carry on in my journey to get it into the market.

0:28:310:28:35

And just get it out there, really.

0:28:350:28:36

Also hoping for a Dragon cash injection

0:28:430:28:46

were Polish postgraduate Artur Napiorkowski

0:28:460:28:49

and his German business partner, Denny Schenk.

0:28:490:28:52

The studious double act came into the Den with a solution to what they

0:28:520:28:56

believed to be a very peculiar British plumbing problem.

0:28:560:29:00

Separate hot and cold water taps.

0:29:000:29:02

Me, personally, I find separate taps extremely inconvenient.

0:29:040:29:07

So this is the retro-mixer.

0:29:070:29:09

It's an adapter for separate taps that mixes the two water streams.

0:29:090:29:12

It's adjustable to different distances between the two taps.

0:29:120:29:15

So no more frostbite, no more third-degree burns.

0:29:150:29:19

Warm water for everyone.

0:29:190:29:21

The Scotland-based duo

0:29:210:29:22

hoped to persuade the Dragons to pour £45,000 into

0:29:220:29:26

their DIY mixer tap in return for 15% equity.

0:29:260:29:30

We do have the separate tap system.

0:29:310:29:33

It is bonkers, I mean, I don't know why...

0:29:330:29:35

It is, when you think about it.

0:29:350:29:36

Nick Jenkins felt the plucky Brits

0:29:360:29:38

already had a solution to the hot-cold tap conundrum.

0:29:380:29:42

If you live in Britain,

0:29:420:29:43

you eventually develop a technique which...

0:29:430:29:46

You go from tap to tap. It's just, it's what you do.

0:29:460:29:49

And, you know,

0:29:490:29:51

you don't allow your hands under one tap for long enough for them

0:29:510:29:54

to scald, you stick them back under the cold tap.

0:29:540:29:57

While Sarah Willingham had some personal experience

0:29:570:30:00

to share about the product's potential target market.

0:30:000:30:03

I've got a Danish husband.

0:30:040:30:06

And he goes on about this all the time.

0:30:060:30:10

It drives him insane. He can't believe it.

0:30:100:30:13

So he would say, "Genius!"

0:30:130:30:15

Unfortunately for the entrepreneurs,

0:30:170:30:19

Mr Willingham wasn't available to offer an investment.

0:30:190:30:23

And an unimpressed Peter Jones soon poured cold water on the whole idea.

0:30:230:30:27

This is a hot tap and a cold tap. It's not that difficult to work out.

0:30:280:30:31

You put a little plug, because there's normally a hole in the sink,

0:30:310:30:34

cos that's where the water goes out. You put a plug in there,

0:30:340:30:37

pull the two and you've now got lukewarm water.

0:30:370:30:40

That's true. The only problem

0:30:400:30:41

is that no-one really has time for that nowadays.

0:30:410:30:44

-Really?

-The sink gets really dirty after...

0:30:440:30:46

No-one has time for it? You students...sorry.

0:30:460:30:50

You've got more time on your hands than anybody's got.

0:30:500:30:53

Deborah Meaden was the first to send their investment hopes

0:30:530:30:56

down the plughole.

0:30:560:30:58

I'm probably not your natural investor,

0:30:580:31:00

because I've just installed a really pretty sink

0:31:000:31:02

with some really lovely individual taps.

0:31:020:31:05

Because that's...cos what they look like matters are way more to me

0:31:050:31:08

than whether I had to switch one on there, one on there.

0:31:080:31:11

So my water stays separate. I won't be investing, guys.

0:31:110:31:14

I'm out.

0:31:140:31:15

And the other Dragons were also lukewarm on the prospect of a deal.

0:31:150:31:19

In 150 years' time,

0:31:190:31:21

we will eventually work out that mixer taps are better,

0:31:210:31:23

in which case we won't need any of these.

0:31:230:31:25

So good luck with selling them all, but I'm afraid I'm out.

0:31:250:31:28

-I'm out.

-I'm out.

0:31:280:31:31

You've really made me smile and I am going to buy one

0:31:310:31:33

and put it in the Dane's Christmas stocking.

0:31:330:31:36

But it's not big enough to be a business.

0:31:360:31:38

I'm afraid I'm out.

0:31:380:31:39

Still to come on tonight's show:

0:31:450:31:48

Separating substance from the spin.

0:31:480:31:50

-This is what I don't understand.

-Yeah...

0:31:500:31:52

Why would you not focus on the thing that you've already proven?

0:31:520:31:55

It doesn't make sense.

0:31:550:31:57

It doesn't stack up.

0:31:570:31:58

And the Den disagrees on what makes a money-spinning idea.

0:31:590:32:04

Let's get it out there and see what happens.

0:32:040:32:07

That is the most ridiculous thing that's ever come into the Den.

0:32:070:32:10

I'll have to prove you wrong, Peter.

0:32:100:32:12

Next into the Den is Alison Grieve from Edinburgh.

0:32:150:32:19

An entrepreneur with a bold claim about her product and her business.

0:32:190:32:24

Well, it's the perfect kind of merger of creativity and science.

0:32:290:32:34

It's the best time to go on the Den,

0:32:370:32:40

because the business has never looked so exciting.

0:32:400:32:43

And there is one Dragon in particular Alison has her eye on.

0:32:450:32:50

The Dragon with the most relevant experience is Peter Jones.

0:32:500:32:55

And also we share the same birthday,

0:32:550:32:57

so I kind of feel it's meant to be.

0:32:570:32:59

My name is Alison Grieve, And I have a mission:

0:33:070:33:10

To change the way the world holds things.

0:33:100:33:14

I'm here today selling 7.5% of the company

0:33:140:33:17

for a £75,000 investment.

0:33:170:33:20

I first began Holding Hands in 2010,

0:33:210:33:24

with the Safetray.

0:33:240:33:27

The Safetray is a patented food service tray

0:33:270:33:30

that doesn't topple over,

0:33:300:33:31

but is still completely stackable.

0:33:310:33:34

The Safetray brought us revenues of over £300,000,

0:33:350:33:39

has achieved distribution across 17 countries,

0:33:390:33:43

and whilst travelling with the Safetray,

0:33:430:33:45

I decided to buy a tablet to make it easier to work on the move.

0:33:450:33:50

And whilst I love the convenience of the tablet,

0:33:500:33:52

I found it somewhat awkward to hold.

0:33:520:33:54

So I applied my ergonomic expertise to invent the G-Hold.

0:33:540:33:59

A recent patent examiner's report found G-Hold to be a novel solution,

0:34:000:34:05

offering unprecedented control with a single hand, 360 rotation,

0:34:050:34:11

and ergonomic hold regardless of hand size,

0:34:110:34:14

whilst retaining the sleek design of tablets.

0:34:140:34:18

We decided to launch G-Hold on Kickstarter,

0:34:180:34:21

to test the market, and were successful,

0:34:210:34:25

and we raised £13,000 and had 700 units pre-ordered.

0:34:250:34:29

We now have an opportunity to grow in a far larger market

0:34:290:34:32

than food service alone.

0:34:320:34:34

But we need to fund that growth.

0:34:340:34:36

Please join our mission to change the way the world holds things.

0:34:360:34:40

A dual-offering of ergonomic inventions

0:34:420:34:45

from Edinburgh-based Alison Grieve.

0:34:450:34:48

-Thank you.

-Some dummy iPads to play with.

0:34:480:34:51

One, a non-slip service tray,

0:34:510:34:54

the other an innovative holder for electronic tablets.

0:34:540:34:57

Alison wants the dragons to offer up a £75,000 investment

0:34:580:35:02

in return for 7.5% of her company.

0:35:020:35:06

Oh, wow. Have they all got my face on?

0:35:060:35:08

No, mine's got my face on it.

0:35:080:35:11

Technology giant Peter Jones

0:35:110:35:13

wants to get a handle on the tablet's target market.

0:35:130:35:17

I see these types of product every day of my life, actually.

0:35:190:35:23

Because I have a site that sells a lot of gadgety-type things.

0:35:230:35:27

All over the world, every day, 170 countries.

0:35:270:35:30

-Yes.

-I'm trying to think, there must be a specific application

0:35:300:35:33

that you'd use this for?

0:35:330:35:34

-Yes, yes.

-So, because this isn't really practical -

0:35:340:35:38

if you're going to use a pad, if you're going to use...

0:35:380:35:40

You want to use both hands.

0:35:400:35:43

You wouldn't tend to go like that,

0:35:430:35:44

unless you are either working in a restaurant,

0:35:440:35:47

where you might want to take their order,

0:35:470:35:49

or you might want to show somebody something when you're presenting.

0:35:490:35:52

-Yes...

-It's very, very specific. I'm not sure the wider use to this.

0:35:520:35:56

See, the biggest growth in tablet sales

0:35:580:36:01

-have been for industrial applications.

-Industrial.

0:36:010:36:04

What do you mean by that?

0:36:040:36:06

So, for example, we've been working with RBS.

0:36:060:36:09

They've bought a number of units to trial with their customer service,

0:36:090:36:13

so that they can engage with customers more readily,

0:36:130:36:16

show them the screen, be able to present,

0:36:160:36:19

look things up on their tablet without having to hold it awkwardly.

0:36:190:36:24

I understand that, that's customer engagement,

0:36:240:36:27

but that doesn't necessarily mean that I need to have this ring

0:36:270:36:30

-at the back of a pad, does it?

-Well, actually,

0:36:300:36:33

the ergonomic aspect to that

0:36:330:36:34

is that people have started to develop "tablet neck"

0:36:340:36:38

from looking over their tablets a lot instead of holding them up.

0:36:380:36:42

That's a poor argument, really.

0:36:420:36:43

Well, it's a proven argument, because there have been

0:36:430:36:46

a big increase in musculoskeletal disorders.

0:36:460:36:51

If you even think that your product will resolve that issue,

0:36:510:36:55

I think that is more than just overselling it.

0:36:550:36:57

I think it's a very, very tiny fragment of an opportunity

0:36:580:37:01

in terms of its market.

0:37:010:37:03

Peter, can I just give some examples of the customers who have used it?

0:37:030:37:07

Give me an example, what sector?

0:37:070:37:09

A national franchisee, who... It's to do with dieting.

0:37:090:37:13

But it's 5,000 units roll-out.

0:37:130:37:15

-And what are they going to do with it?

-They're going to be having

0:37:150:37:18

their weekly meetings and they're going to present.

0:37:180:37:23

You might say that somebody's going to order 5,000 of these from you,

0:37:230:37:26

even that doesn't make it a great business.

0:37:260:37:28

Well, the Home Shopping Network sold out within...

0:37:280:37:31

They didn't, you sold 2,000 units. I mean, that's nothing.

0:37:310:37:34

But they've only just started selling.

0:37:340:37:36

It doesn't matter. That doesn't matter.

0:37:360:37:38

I've got products that will sell 100,000 in an hour.

0:37:380:37:40

Alison's feisty defence of her tablet-holder

0:37:430:37:45

does little to dent Peter Jones' criticism of her product,

0:37:450:37:49

and the size of its market.

0:37:490:37:51

Her original invention, the nonslip tray,

0:37:520:37:55

has already served up considerable sales.

0:37:550:37:57

Retail magnate Touker Suleyman wants the lowdown on its success.

0:37:590:38:03

You say you've been going since 2014?

0:38:050:38:09

For the G-Hold, yeah, but Safetray started in 2010.

0:38:100:38:14

OK, let's talk about that.

0:38:140:38:16

So, give us some numbers on that?

0:38:160:38:18

Yeah, so, that's two parts to the revenue of Safetray,

0:38:180:38:21

one is the sales from our own manufacturing,

0:38:210:38:23

which were just over £80,000.

0:38:230:38:25

-Yep.

-And then £230,000 through licensing

0:38:250:38:28

the technology to a North American partner.

0:38:280:38:32

So that 230,000 was a royalty?

0:38:320:38:35

Yeah, it was a mixture of upfront license fee and royalties,

0:38:350:38:38

but basically came from a licence.

0:38:380:38:40

Right.

0:38:400:38:41

Clearly you did a great job of licensing out that product.

0:38:420:38:45

Someone has paid you £230,000.

0:38:450:38:48

But what I'm trying to understand is that, is that for ever?

0:38:480:38:51

Is that for a year?

0:38:510:38:53

No, so that licence,

0:38:530:38:54

that was a three-year deal and it came to an end.

0:38:540:38:57

OK, but when you say it came to an end...

0:38:570:39:00

-Yeah.

-It... Why would it come to an end?

0:39:000:39:02

Presumably it's still a good product?

0:39:020:39:05

We basically parked Safetray.

0:39:050:39:07

There were issues with the manufacturing,

0:39:070:39:09

we experienced warping.

0:39:090:39:11

That took us out of production for a year.

0:39:110:39:14

So we parked Safetray and focused entirely on developing the G-Hold.

0:39:140:39:18

-Based on whether...

-OK, but you've already developed a product that

0:39:180:39:21

-someone has paid you...

-WHISPERS:

-Yeah, I don't get it.

0:39:210:39:24

-..£230,000 for?

-It came down to a question of focus.

0:39:240:39:30

-This is what I don't understand.

-Yeah...

0:39:300:39:31

Why would you not focus on the thing that you've already proven?

0:39:310:39:35

It was a painful decision, but...

0:39:350:39:38

It's a confusing decision, as well.

0:39:380:39:39

The revelation that Alison switched focus from a developed product with

0:39:420:39:46

a licensing track record, to an unproven new one,

0:39:460:39:49

raises a red flag for Nick Jenkins.

0:39:490:39:51

Deborah Meaden is also struggling to understand the rationale behind

0:39:540:39:58

the entrepreneur's business decision.

0:39:580:40:00

It doesn't make sense.

0:40:030:40:05

You know, if I play it back to you,

0:40:070:40:09

we have a product that is a really good product,

0:40:090:40:12

and we actually sell it for a licence fee for £230,000.

0:40:120:40:16

-Yes.

-We're in trouble.

0:40:160:40:18

We're distracted, so we need to focus on something.

0:40:180:40:22

So what we'll do, we'll stop focusing on the thing that we know

0:40:220:40:24

sells and does really well, and we'll look over here and do this

0:40:240:40:27

thing that we have no idea whether it sells or not.

0:40:270:40:30

-Yeah, and...

-And which bit of that picture

0:40:300:40:33

would you think that any sane investor would get?

0:40:330:40:37

And I, you know, I understand that

0:40:370:40:40

and it was a painful thing for me.

0:40:400:40:43

I only have a very, very small time to bring you to your comfort levels,

0:40:430:40:49

I understand that. And, you know...

0:40:490:40:52

But people do, Alison. People come in here and they do,

0:40:520:40:55

and they do that because they present a clear case

0:40:550:40:58

that hangs together.

0:40:580:40:59

You have not presented a good case to me here.

0:40:590:41:02

I won't be investing, I'm out.

0:41:020:41:03

Confusion over Alison's decision to sideline a successful product

0:41:070:41:11

sees Deborah Meaden walk away from a deal.

0:41:110:41:14

And it appears that a sceptical Peter Jones

0:41:150:41:18

has also made his mind up.

0:41:180:41:20

I think it's admirable,

0:41:220:41:24

the fact that you've developed a product and sold it.

0:41:240:41:27

You've gone on to develop another product and sold it.

0:41:270:41:29

Alison, I think you're in a really difficult position.

0:41:290:41:32

This is never going to be a volume product.

0:41:340:41:36

It looks ugly, it's not usable...

0:41:380:41:41

-SHE GASPS

-..and, frankly, at the moment,

0:41:410:41:43

it's a very targeted market, this.

0:41:430:41:46

And it's very small one.

0:41:460:41:48

So...I can't invest in something like this, I don't believe in it.

0:41:480:41:52

But, more importantly, I think you should have a bit of a reality check

0:41:520:41:55

and really think about your business.

0:41:550:41:58

I'm out.

0:41:580:41:59

Peter Jones was the Dragon the entrepreneur hoped to impress.

0:42:010:42:06

But, uninspired, he exits the negotiations.

0:42:060:42:09

Sarah Willingham has a lucrative track record

0:42:110:42:13

in global restaurant franchises.

0:42:130:42:15

Can she see a use for Alison's products

0:42:150:42:18

in the food service industry?

0:42:180:42:20

-Alison.

-Yes.

-Firstly, I think you've coped pretty well, actually.

0:42:220:42:27

I've seen people completely lose it with a lot less.

0:42:270:42:32

-Thank you very much.

-It's not an easy environment at all.

0:42:320:42:36

But I do think it's very fair.

0:42:360:42:38

There are still so many question marks, and I...

0:42:400:42:43

I've got to be honest,

0:42:430:42:44

it feels like it feels like such a lot of it is spin.

0:42:440:42:47

I can't really get underneath what the reality is.

0:42:480:42:52

And the bit that I can't let go of is the tray.

0:42:520:42:56

You came up with a tray,

0:42:570:43:00

you sold it. But don't anybody worry about that

0:43:000:43:03

because we've got this new, great product here.

0:43:030:43:05

And I'm like, hang on a minute, hang on a minute -

0:43:050:43:07

what about this great product?

0:43:070:43:09

-What happened?

-I do understand.

0:43:090:43:11

I think that there was a lot of pain endured during the time

0:43:110:43:14

with Safetray, and the fact that we did mess up production,

0:43:140:43:18

-we took a long time to get back.

-But it's licensing, though,

0:43:180:43:21

so what the hell's production got to do with it?

0:43:210:43:24

We weren't able to fully support that licensing partner,

0:43:240:43:27

nor the distributors that we had.

0:43:270:43:29

Our investors wanted us to focus on G-Hold,

0:43:300:43:34

and wanted to see that tested out.

0:43:340:43:37

And were excited by G-Hold.

0:43:370:43:39

The same investors that invested in the tray in the first place?

0:43:390:43:42

Yeah.

0:43:420:43:43

For me, it just doesn't stack up.

0:43:430:43:47

There's just no way I can invest, I'm sorry, I'm out.

0:43:490:43:53

I understand.

0:43:530:43:56

Sarah Willingham also bows out,

0:43:560:43:59

unable to get past Alison's decision to park the Safetray.

0:43:590:44:04

Will Nick Jenkins be willing to do a deal with the Edinburgh inventor?

0:44:040:44:08

What you would need to do to get my investment is to take this product

0:44:110:44:16

further than you have already.

0:44:160:44:18

You're on the cusp of doing sales, you need to focus on doing that.

0:44:180:44:21

-Yeah.

-You need to focus on taking this business into profitability.

0:44:210:44:25

But right now, there just isn't enough evidence for me to invest,

0:44:250:44:29

so I'm out.

0:44:290:44:31

Four Dragons down, only Touker Suleyman remains.

0:44:330:44:38

Will the Den's king of outsourcing be the Dragon

0:44:380:44:41

to see traction in the tablet-holder?

0:44:410:44:43

It's not a bad product.

0:44:460:44:48

Because, from a commercial sense, if you think

0:44:490:44:54

the online business is growing, so there is a use for it.

0:44:540:44:58

There is a use in retail stores.

0:44:590:45:01

So I think there's something there.

0:45:010:45:04

I can see you selling lots of these.

0:45:040:45:06

But I'm not going to join you on that journey, I'm afraid.

0:45:090:45:12

SHE GASPS

0:45:120:45:13

And for that reason, I'm out.

0:45:130:45:16

Alison's mission may be to change the way the world holds things,

0:45:180:45:22

but concerns over the direction she's taken her business means

0:45:220:45:26

the prospect of a Dragon investment simply slipped through her fingers.

0:45:260:45:30

I was a bit thrown by Peter not liking the product.

0:45:330:45:38

And because that's his zone,

0:45:380:45:40

I think that had a knock-on effect.

0:45:400:45:42

I would like to show the Dragons, in the future,

0:45:420:45:46

that I do know what I'm doing with this business.

0:45:460:45:50

The final entrepreneur to enter the Den

0:45:570:46:00

is Dublin-based Jamie Lawler,

0:46:000:46:02

who's got a big idea for the little boys' room.

0:46:020:46:05

People think it's fun, it's a novel idea.

0:46:060:46:08

When children are over visiting our house,

0:46:080:46:10

we get calls later on from mothers to say,

0:46:100:46:13

"What's the story with your toilet?

0:46:130:46:15

"My child is telling me you have the coolest toilet around."

0:46:150:46:20

It is a fun idea, but this has global potential.

0:46:200:46:24

It could be big.

0:46:240:46:25

Hello, Dragons. My name is Jamie Lawler.

0:46:380:46:41

I'm here today with my simple invention that has retail potential.

0:46:410:46:46

I'm hoping for a £40,000 investment in return for a 20% share.

0:46:460:46:51

As a father of three young children,

0:46:510:46:53

I've found my fair share of unflushed toilets.

0:46:530:46:56

Children see flushing the toilet as a chore.

0:46:560:46:59

And we all know it's hard to get children

0:46:590:47:01

to do something when it's a chore.

0:47:010:47:03

So I thought, "How could I turn that chore into a pleasure?"

0:47:030:47:06

And that was the start of Kidsflush.

0:47:060:47:09

A simple unit that sticks over the top of your existing toilet button,

0:47:090:47:13

held in place with suction cups.

0:47:130:47:15

The large, colourful button is easy for children to press.

0:47:170:47:21

Giving that visual reminder.

0:47:210:47:24

And, of course, one more thing, we made it fun.

0:47:240:47:26

BUGLE FANFARE

0:47:260:47:27

Children get that built-in sound module cheer when played.

0:47:270:47:32

So...

0:47:320:47:33

I am pre-trading, but design is done, testing is done,

0:47:360:47:40

and tooling has started.

0:47:400:47:41

So I will pass out some samples and I welcome any questions.

0:47:410:47:45

Hoping to flush a few quid out of the Dragons

0:47:470:47:49

is Dublin-based Jamie Lawler.

0:47:490:47:52

Does mine fanfare?

0:47:520:47:53

They all do, the first lot are all fanfares, yeah.

0:47:530:47:56

He's asking for £40,000 in return for a 20% stake

0:47:560:48:00

in his kid-friendly loo-flushing gadget.

0:48:000:48:03

BUGLE FANFARE

0:48:030:48:05

Sorry. You can turn them off by turning the button.

0:48:070:48:10

I probably should have left them turned off.

0:48:100:48:13

Stop now.

0:48:160:48:17

Deborah Meaden wants to find out if the idea

0:48:170:48:20

is more than just a flash in the pan.

0:48:200:48:22

Jamie, I guess the first...

0:48:250:48:26

The first question is, is it just for children?

0:48:270:48:30

Because I know quite a few adults

0:48:300:48:32

who like to hail the announcement of...

0:48:320:48:35

Anyway, let's not go there.

0:48:350:48:37

LAUGHTER

0:48:370:48:39

Well... So, pre-trading.

0:48:410:48:44

That means you've done, you've made it,

0:48:440:48:47

you haven't sold any at all.

0:48:470:48:50

No.

0:48:500:48:51

Have you talked to any retailers?

0:48:520:48:56

Anybody who's actually likely to sell it?

0:48:560:48:58

I've provisionally spoken to retailers,

0:48:580:49:00

and the feedback that I got was, "That's fantastic,

0:49:000:49:03

"when can we have stock and can you leave samples with me?"

0:49:030:49:05

So, which retailers have you spoken to?

0:49:050:49:08

It was somebody who actually used to work for Tesco.

0:49:080:49:10

And how much will they sell for?

0:49:140:49:16

£12, they retail for £12.

0:49:160:49:18

-And how much have they cost you to make?

-£3.

0:49:180:49:20

-Fully boxed?

-Fully boxed.

0:49:200:49:23

I think my ideal would be to get into retail and possibly

0:49:230:49:26

position it as an impulse buy, so it would be hanging

0:49:260:49:29

in a supermarket next to the pull-up nappies,

0:49:290:49:31

and it's kind of a case of, when they're doing the shopping,

0:49:310:49:34

they'll pick it up.

0:49:340:49:35

The Dublin-based entrepreneur

0:49:380:49:40

reveals his retail aspirations for his novelty product.

0:49:400:49:43

With a household of five children,

0:49:440:49:46

tech tycoon Peter Jones knows more than most about the issue at hand.

0:49:460:49:51

But does he think the toilet idea holds water?

0:49:510:49:54

Jamie, in essence, you've invented a button

0:49:550:50:00

that goes on top of a button.

0:50:000:50:02

Yeah, a button for a button.

0:50:020:50:04

A button for a button.

0:50:040:50:06

Yeah.

0:50:060:50:07

I'm going to tell you straight away, I think it's crazy.

0:50:070:50:10

There's two things you should know about kids. Well, you know.

0:50:110:50:14

First thing is getting them going to the loo is one thing,

0:50:140:50:16

but once you've got to that age and they do,

0:50:160:50:18

when they get that out seat, they tend to just rush out.

0:50:180:50:21

They're not going to rush out and think,

0:50:210:50:22

"Oh, I've got to go back and press that, because it's ..."

0:50:220:50:25

IMITATES FANFARE

0:50:250:50:26

They'll do it once or twice and then get bored.

0:50:260:50:29

Yes, it has worked in our house.

0:50:290:50:31

We've had it on our toilet and it's worked.

0:50:310:50:33

Our children flush the toilet now.

0:50:330:50:37

I think you just need to tell your kids to flush the toilet.

0:50:370:50:40

You've got a product, but, Jamie...

0:50:400:50:42

It's bordering on the ridiculous.

0:50:430:50:45

I disagree with him.

0:50:470:50:49

I think... I think you've got something here.

0:50:490:50:52

I remember when my children were much younger,

0:50:520:50:55

and I was always going behind them, "Flush the loo."

0:50:550:50:58

But this makes it fun.

0:50:580:50:59

And I think most of them will say to their mummies,

0:50:590:51:02

"I want to go to the loo cos I want to flush it."

0:51:020:51:04

Exactly. I mean, that's the idea.

0:51:040:51:06

Do you have any other ideas for any other products?

0:51:060:51:09

We do, yeah, we do have some thought around

0:51:090:51:11

getting children to wash their hands.

0:51:110:51:13

I suppose the idea is to bring fun to everyday tasks for children.

0:51:130:51:17

I hate to ask what you're going to do for that?

0:51:170:51:19

Well, we might make the water glow or the soap glow.

0:51:190:51:22

The Kidsflush finds a friend in the Den in Touker Suleyman.

0:51:260:51:30

Plans to diversify into other products

0:51:300:51:33

should be music to a Dragon's ears.

0:51:330:51:35

Is Nick Jenkins tuned in, or about to drop out?

0:51:350:51:39

-It's a very well-made product.

-Yeah, that's the prototype.

0:51:420:51:45

-I was amazed by how heavy it is.

-Yeah.

-It's very nicely made.

0:51:450:51:48

But, in short, this is a product, not a business, really.

0:51:480:51:52

And it's just really too limited to be of interest.

0:51:520:51:58

But good luck with it. I'm out.

0:51:590:52:00

Nick Jenkins puts the lid down on the toilet gadget.

0:52:060:52:10

Sarah Willingham has a sizeable clan at home.

0:52:100:52:13

Does she see some potential profit in the child-friendly product?

0:52:130:52:17

Jamie, I think you must have had so much fun coming up with this,

0:52:190:52:25

and thinking of your glowing soap and your glowing water,

0:52:250:52:28

and all those other ideas in your head -

0:52:280:52:30

you must actually really enjoy this?

0:52:300:52:32

Yeah, it's been fun. It's been an experience.

0:52:320:52:35

And I think, honestly,

0:52:350:52:37

if you can make a living doing stuff like this,

0:52:370:52:40

and enjoying it, then why not?

0:52:400:52:43

But, no, I'm sorry, it's not investable.

0:52:440:52:46

I'm afraid I'm out.

0:52:480:52:49

Forgetting to flush clearly isn't an issue in the Willingham WC.

0:52:530:52:56

Has Peter Jones been relieved of his earlier concerns?

0:52:580:53:02

Jamie, I am honestly beyond worried.

0:53:050:53:07

Find somewhere else that you can make your money,

0:53:090:53:11

because this isn't it. This is not going to change your life.

0:53:110:53:15

I admire the fact that you're coming up with ideas,

0:53:150:53:18

but this is not a good one.

0:53:180:53:20

So, unfortunately, I'm out.

0:53:210:53:23

Do you know, I think it looks fun.

0:53:260:53:27

And I definitely think you'll sell some.

0:53:270:53:30

And I do think you'll make money out of it.

0:53:300:53:33

And, certainly, when people see it...

0:53:330:53:35

It makes people smile, you know?

0:53:350:53:37

But it's not an investment.

0:53:390:53:40

So, I'm afraid I'm about to say those two words, Jamie -

0:53:400:53:43

-but thank you for bringing it in, it's made me smile...

-OK.

0:53:430:53:45

..and my husband might get one for Christmas.

0:53:450:53:47

So, anyway, Jamie, I won't be investing, I'm out.

0:53:470:53:50

With Deborah Meaden out, just Touker Suleyman remains.

0:53:540:53:59

Will the Irish entrepreneur

0:53:590:54:01

get a royal flush of five Dragon rejections?

0:54:010:54:04

Jamie, I like it.

0:54:070:54:09

Ooh!

0:54:110:54:12

FANFARE PLAYS

0:54:120:54:14

He likes it!

0:54:140:54:15

-THEY LAUGH

-The thing is, is it a business?

0:54:150:54:19

This is the question.

0:54:200:54:22

At the moment, what debts has the company got?

0:54:220:54:25

None, really, only the personal investment that I've made there,

0:54:260:54:29

so there's no real debt and there's no real costs in the company either,

0:54:290:54:33

you know, in running the company, so...

0:54:330:54:34

-And there's no other costs in the company?

-No.

0:54:340:54:37

Hmm.

0:54:400:54:41

-And where are you based?

-In Dublin.

-Dublin.

0:54:430:54:46

OK.

0:54:470:54:48

Do you need a London-based office?

0:54:500:54:52

Could be handy.

0:54:540:54:55

Hmm.

0:54:560:54:58

You've got me right on that line.

0:54:590:55:00

-WHISPERS:

-Get him over the line, Jamie!

0:55:000:55:02

It does have potential. I mean, there's a lot of...

0:55:020:55:05

-So where would the money go to?

-There's a lot of people...

0:55:050:55:08

-In stock?

-Realistically, yeah,

0:55:080:55:10

but I'm not planning on holding a warehouse

0:55:100:55:13

full of stock of Kidsflush.

0:55:130:55:15

I'll give you all the money for 40%.

0:55:300:55:32

FANFARE PLAYS

0:55:350:55:36

And is there any negotiation on that?

0:55:420:55:45

No, because it's a real start-up.

0:55:450:55:47

You're going to need a bit of help.

0:55:470:55:49

You're going to need a few phone calls to people like Mothercare.

0:55:490:55:51

-Mhm.

-John Lewis.

-Mhm.

0:55:510:55:53

Maybe even take it across the water to the States.

0:55:530:55:56

-Yeah.

-But would I be able to help you from London

0:55:560:55:59

to open doors for you and get pre-orders?

0:55:590:56:02

-Right.

-Get some stock in,

0:56:020:56:04

and then let's get it out there and see what happens.

0:56:040:56:07

Erm...

0:56:070:56:09

-I'll take your offer.

-Good.

-Yay!

0:56:120:56:15

Jamie has done it.

0:56:150:56:17

Well done.

0:56:170:56:18

Having faced some dubious Dragons for much of his pitch,

0:56:180:56:21

the Dublin entrepreneur manages to get an offer in the can.

0:56:210:56:24

And leaves the Den with a retail expert Dragon on board,

0:56:240:56:28

and the £40,000 investment he was looking for.

0:56:280:56:31

FANFARE PLAYS

0:56:310:56:34

I would've said that is the most ridiculous thing

0:56:350:56:38

that's ever come into the Den.

0:56:380:56:39

Now I can say it's the most ridiculous thing that has ever come

0:56:390:56:42

into the Den that's got investment.

0:56:420:56:44

I'll have to prove you wrong, Peter.

0:56:440:56:46

I'll bet you the 40 grand you bet that you won't.

0:56:460:56:49

OK!

0:56:490:56:50

Fine.

0:56:500:56:51

Yeah, I was a bit worried all right, it wasn't going too well.

0:56:530:56:56

But Touker came in in the end and we got the deal done.

0:56:560:57:00

I'm not changing the world here. It's a bit of fun.

0:57:000:57:02

But, you know, there's a lot of toilets out there,

0:57:020:57:05

and a lot of children.

0:57:050:57:06

Some light relief to end tonight's dramas in the Den,

0:57:120:57:16

that, in one way or another, have all been about innovators

0:57:160:57:20

and inventions. But, as we've just seen, however unlikely an idea,

0:57:200:57:24

it takes the backing of just one Dragon

0:57:240:57:27

to give a business a chance of success.

0:57:270:57:29

And that brings proceedings to a close for this series.

0:57:290:57:33

But don't despair,

0:57:330:57:34

the Den will be back open for business later this year.

0:57:340:57:37

Coming soon in the thrilling new series,

0:57:400:57:44

two new fire breathers enter the Den.

0:57:440:57:47

Peter Jones, Deborah Meaden, Touker Suleyman, Sarah Willingham and Nick Jenkins take their seats to face a fresh batch of entrepreneurs who dare to enter through the Den doors.

In this episode, a former panel beater hopes to seal a deal with the Dragons with his innovative nail gel product. An inventor from Dublin is looking to rinse the Dragons of some capital with his unique toilet-flushing gadget for kids, and a dapper businessman with a parking app stuns the Den with his company valuation. Will his technology impress the Dragons enough to secure investment or will they put the brakes on a deal?