Episode 11 Dragons' Den

Tonight, five Dragons limber up to invest.

-Yay!

-Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Easily done.

And as a new group of entrepreneurs warm up for the toughest pitch of

their lives...

I'm standing here like a rabbit in headlights.

For us, it's way more than a business,

and it's always going to be. It's just our way of life now.

Some will be put through their paces...

You'll never make any money out of it.

You're not a businessman.

He just literally came back and went, "But..."

You didn't hear it.

..some will push the Dragons to their limits...

An investor will always want to see some level of investment

-from yourselves.

-Don't speak on my behalf.

..but who will power through and hit the ultimate target of a

multimillionaire investor?

This is a massive opportunity.

You stopped me saying those two words.

I'm going to give you an offer straightaway.

Welcome back to Dragons' Den, where entrepreneurs with big dreams pitch

their business ventures to five multimillionaires.

A match made in heaven maybe, but only those who can promise big

returns will secure the Dragons' cash.

The first entrepreneurs tonight are Wiltshire-based Dylan Watkins and

Louise Mackintosh, with a well balanced business partnership where

they can both take the lead.

We've pitched and presented a lot,

and that side of it I don't think intimidates us.

Oh, whoa. I'm standing here like rabbit in the headlights.

And if the Dragons are feeling fiery,

the duo have a secret weapon on their side.

Very much hoping they'll be so distracted by the dog that

they don't necessarily notice us.

Hi.

I'm Dylan, this is Louise, and this is Poppy,

and we're here today to ask for £60,000

for 5% share of Poppy's Picnic.

We make wholesome, raw, natural dog food,

made in the heart of Wiltshire,

and it's handmade by fourth generation butchers.

Five years ago, I was feeding Poppy a highly processed but expensive dry

food, but I thought that there must be something better.

After much research, I made my first batch of raw food.

Fast forward two years,

and my new neighbour wanted us to make some food

for her Rottweilers. I knew I needed some help,

so I asked the local village butcher to make my first recipe,

and the rest is what you see here today.

At the moment, the vast majority of dogs are fed highly processed meat

derivative meals and it's unsurprising as a result

that 55% of dogs in the UK are currently obese,

but it is a preventable epidemic.

Ours is a biologically appropriate raw diet, and what that means,

quite simply, it's what dogs were designed to eat.

Our growth from nought to 40,000 per month in less than a year shows

that owners and dogs agree.

To feed a dog like Poppy would cost just 55p a day.

We have our own Defra licence to make food,

and our abattoir is RSPCA assured.

We're launching cat food soon,

with our new to market raw meatballs.

We need your money today, to help catapult this growth.

Louise is going to bring some food over for you to have a look at.

With plans to generate a raw pet food revolution,

Dylan Watkins and Louise Mackintosh are looking for £60,000 for 5% of

-their company.

-Shall I take that lead

-off?

-Go on, then.

-Come on. OK. There we go.

-OK. Bye-bye.

-Bye.

-Just me and Poppy, then.

-OK, there we are, then. That's us done.

-Fine.

-Goodbye now.

-Off you go.

She's not the most loyal dog, is she?

She's completely transferred her affections.

-Bye.

-Bye.

Once the cuddles are out of the way...

Come on, then. Bye-bye.

-See you in a minute.

-Bye-bye, Poppy.

-Bye, Poppy.

-..fellow animal lover Deborah Meaden,

who's previously invested in healthy pet treats...

-Bye-bye.

-..is looking for assurance about the duo's ingredients.

I have three dogs and a cat.

And all of my animals are fed on raw food.

I feed a product that is pure meat.

If you're going to set yourself apart, based on this is better,

who have you used to make sure that this is nutritionally balanced?

We have used a team of vets to create our recipes,

where we have worked in the amount of meat, bone ratio,

the offal and also vegetables as well.

We're trying to mirror as close as possible

what the dog would eat in the wild.

So, just so I double check,

are you telling me you're turning over 40,000 a month?

-Yes.

-That's pretty punchy, when did you first start?

We started selling in October of last year.

OK, so, can you talk me through the growth between October and today?

In October, £7,000 a month in sales.

January, we were up to 14,000,

then our sales for March was 17,500,

and then April was 23,500,

and this is excluding our international sales.

What's the international bit?

19,000 we shipped in April,

and at the end of April, we had another order come in for 44,000.

-But we haven't put those into our figures.

-And which country is that?

Hong Kong. And our license to sell in China

is not far off from being approved.

It's a good business, you've done well so far.

-I think the market's great in terms of raw food.

-Yes.

And I'm very impressed with your research,

and development on the products.

My company, we have actually launched supplements,

and vitamins for dogs.

I think it's great synergy with our pet vitamins and nutrition.

I'm going to do something I've not done -

I'm going to give you an offer straightaway.

So, I'm going to offer you...

all of the money, the £60,000,

but I'd want 15% of your business.

In a surprise early move that pricks up everybody's ears in the Den,

vitamin impresario Tej Lalvani jumps in with an almost immediate offer.

But at three times the equity the entrepreneurs wanted to give away,

will Peter Jones be nipping at his heels?

It's going well, isn't it?

-At the moment.

-I want to know a little bit about your background,

so your previous jobs.

PR and marketing,

and we met working in a PR agency as freelancers about 14 years ago,

and we set up our own brand communications company.

Although we were self-employed, we were still working for our clients.

Naturally, what we wanted to do was work for ourselves,

and focus our skills on something that we'd made and not something

somebody was paying us to do.

You can tell that you've done an amazing job.

-Thank you.

-So, where this business could be in three years' time,

give me a picture of that.

Next year, we think we'll have a profit only at 24,000,

then our net profit in year two is 160.

Right, so how has it gone from... that to 160?

Because our sales will increase this year.

-OK, I sort of assumed that.

-Yeah.

Then we are 1.9 million.

By year three, you think you will do 1.9 million revenue?

Yeah, with gross profit of 800,000, with a net profit of 300,000.

How are you keeping that gross margin so high?

With machinery and new practises,

we will be able to comfortably make 2.5 million units at that point.

Hmm.

I don't believe the forecasts you've put together,

because I think that seems very high.

I'm not buying into the financial return.

So, I'm going to say, sadly, I'm out.

As quickly as they won over one Dragon,

the entrepreneurs lose another,

as Peter Jones casts doubts on their ambitious projections,

and exits the deal.

And now cashpoint queen and dog aficionado Jenny Campbell

wants to put the duo through their paces on pricing.

I have a sticker on my office door that says "The Mad Dog Lady".

-Brilliant.

-My dogs are rather bigger than yours,

-they're flat-coated retrievers, you know.

-Yes.

-We do.

-Good.

So, bigger dogs. That certainly won't cost 55p a day to feed on raw.

How much a day to feed one of my dogs?

-Give me the weight.

-30 kilos.

30 kilos, so we're looking at probably between

-600 and 900g a day.

-So, this would be two of these, then?

-It would be two packs.

-Per dog.

-Per dog.

-I've got three, by the way.

-OK.

-So that's six packs.

You'd be doing two packs a day, say,

which is 1.50, that would be £9.

-Gosh, £3 a day per dog.

-Mmm-hmm.

£9 a day.

That's a lot, isn't it?

It's another setback for the twosome,

as the product's potential strain on Jenny Campbell's purse strings

makes her pause for thought.

But Deborah Meaden believes she's sniffed out a budding opportunity in

their fledgling feline food range.

Guys, you're focusing a lot on dogs, which is why...

You've got that underway, and that's fantastic.

I'm as interested in the cat food market...

-So are we.

-Funny enough, I think it's actually...

It's a more compelling market,

because you will see a tipping point on cat food when owners suddenly

realise, "Oh, my goodness, what are we doing?"

It's starting to bubble up.

How close are you on the cat food?

We're pretty close on cat food, I've been on about cat food for months,

-as you can imagine.

-We're testing out cat food.

It's just about perfecting the recipe.

Cats are a lot, lot fussier than dogs, so we've got...

-Tell me about it.

-We've got the packaging in process at the moment.

The logo's being adapted for a cat face.

The cat side looks great, it really does.

OK.

In terms of what I could bring, I've got food manufacturing.

In terms of the dog side, I will tell you,

Jenny's a judge in dog shows, and whatever,

but I'm saying I have quite an authentic voice

within the dog community.

But I've obviously got the contacts in the retail.

It's a well trodden path for me.

So, I'm going to make you an offer.

I'll match Tej's offer.

All of the money for 15% of the business.

Not one to pussyfoot about, Deborah Meaden is now in direct

competition with Tej Lalvani's early bid.

And Touker Suleyman is also weighing up his position

on the animal food company.

You're very investable.

The brand's very investable.

I have, at home, no dogs.

So, if I was an investor, I would have no knowledge on dog food.

-OK.

-But I have a lot of knowledge about manufacturing, packaging,

distribution, finance...

I think I could add a lot of value to you,

and I'm going to make you an offer.

I will match the other Dragons, all the money for 15%.

With three offers on the table,

I just need to tell you what I would add.

I have taken a business and transformed that business,

in terms of its operational processes from end to end,

I took that into four countries.

I am passionate about dogs,

and they're a very important part of my life -

as are all animals.

I do think this is a massive opportunity.

So I will make you an offer.

I don't see any point in splitting hairs.

I'll invest all the money at 15%.

There are now four identical offers on the table.

Can Tej Lalvani, the original leader of the pack with his early offer,

get his nose back out in front?

I could do everything that you need as a Dragon to be able to get

where you want to get.

We work very closely with Battersea Dogs and Cats Home,

and we do a lot of research with them, we worked under the charity...

And in terms of manufacturing,

obviously, we manufacture a huge amount of product,

and we ship them internationally to over 100 countries.

So, in terms of logistics, dealing with international parties,

and working margins, I can obviously help in that area.

Thank you.

It's an enviable position for the entrepreneurs,

with four Dragons vying to be top dog.

Do you want to go back and have a chat with yourselves?

-That might help, thank you.

-A huddle's needed. Thank you, all.

-Huddle under the light.

-Thank you.

At three times the equity on the table, it's not an easy call,

with all the bids coming in at 15%.

Much higher than what I wanted to do.

Is it worth pulling out?

Erm...

OK, let's go questions.

Thank you. We weren't expecting to have four offers.

Your percentages, though, for me, are... Mmm,

a little bit high.

And they're very high, compared to where I was starting off at 5%.

Those faces now!

I'll tell you where I am at.

I actually think it's a very fair offer,

considering your net profit is going to be £24,000 this year.

I will add to that. I know what I can add to the business,

and I'm going to have to stick on 15%.

OK. So I'm not going to revise my offer, it's £60,000 for 15%.

And I'm sticking at 15%.

There's no wiggle room,

as the Dragons refuse to budge on their meaty equity propositions.

I think it's decision time.

We saw you two ladies...

-Oh.

-..as, you know, people that we were very interested in investing,

because, of course, dogs...

We went to that.

But with your knowledge, expertise...

Deborah, we'd like to accept.

Excellent!

-Good job, guys.

-I can't tell you how pleased I am.

-Thank you, as well.

-Well done. Congratulations.

-Right, how exciting, I am really, really pleased.

-Thank you very much.

After a roller-coaster session, Dylan and Louise have nailed it,

and they walk away from the Den with

-their perfect Dragon partner on board.

-It was the right thing to do.

-Right thing to do.

-OK.

-Well done, Deborah.

-Yeah, well done, Deborah.

I think they got the right Dragon to make that a success.

Your little face on those packs of food

won an awful lot of people's hearts today.

Thanks, Pops. Much love to you.

Next into the Den, a doctor making a bold claim

about how he's aiming to get the nation fit for purpose.

I'm keen to change Britain's landscape,

in terms of healthy eating.

If Jamie Oliver can do it, then I think Doctor Asif can do it as well.

Hi, Dragons. My name's Asif, I'm the founder of Date Smoothie,

and I'm here today seeking a £50,000 investment

for a 10% stake in my business.

Before I start, I'd like to ask a quick question.

How many of you missed breakfast this morning?

Deborah? OK. Well, that was me many years ago as a junior doctor,

rushing out the house, trying to make the half seven ward round.

It was only when I collapsed in theatre last year,

that I decided to bring breakfast to work.

And that was in the form of smoothies available on the shelves.

However, these smoothies contain upwards of 40g of sugar.

And being a doctor, that didn't sit well with me.

So using my knowledge of human nutrition and physiology,

I devised my own recipe and created Date Smoothie.

Each 250 ml bottle contains...

only natural ingredients - such as flax seeds, as a source of fibre,

and dates as a natural source of sweetener.

Since then, I've incorporated a unique food compartment

into the design that contains trail mix -

making this the world's first complete liquid,

and solid meal replacement.

I welcome you to try the products, and I look forward to any questions.

Thank you.

A smoothie with a side of nuts and seeds

is the package on offer from Doctor Asif Munaf.

So, there's three different flavours there.

Hazelnut, pecan, and cacao.

He's looking for an investment of £50,000

in return for 10% of his company.

What's that one?

That's the cacao. That's the mild hint of coffee.

-Oh, OK.

-Can health supremo Tej Lalvani

see a wholesome future in this liquid breakfast product?

-Hi, Asif.

-Hi.

-I actually like one of them, the hazelnut one's very nice.

-Yeah, that's the popular one.

-Your formulation is quite good, actually.

Using my knowledge and my research in human nutrition and physiology,

I've created a product that's not just off-the-cuff.

No, I mean, you've clearly thought about it well.

Tell me, there's quite a few date drinks on the market.

How does yours compare?

Our unique selling point is that it's not just a date drink,

the date is a sweetener to the drink.

The date name is actually Doctor Asif's Thoughtful Eating,

it's an acronym.

I wouldn't have realised that, I would have just...

-Doctor Asif's...

-..Thoughtful Eating.

Thoughtful Eating?

-Oh.

-Asif, I think you've done a lovely thing.

But please don't be that clever over "date."

You're thinking's wrong, completely wrong, in terms of your brand.

I believe the branding is quite strong, actually.

Because using "date," you know, it's an acronym,

-it's not just a date smoothie.

-That's... OK, now there's a problem.

If you see a product on the shelf that has got date written all the

way across the front of it, most people, I promise you,

are going to think that it's a date product.

I absolutely promise you, and that isn't coming from any expertise,

that's coming from good old-fashioned common sense.

Now, the fact that you won't hear that, that's a bit of an issue.

But...but the...

No, you didn't hear it, you just came, "but..."

You literally came back and went, "but..."

You didn't hear it.

A sticky encounter, as Asif's choice of name

gets him on the wrong side of Deborah Meaden.

Meanwhile, Touker Suleyman wants to share his thoughts

on his perfect start to the day.

I drink a smoothie every morning.

And I'll tell you what it is. Maybe you can tell me if it's right or wrong.

-Right.

-So, I put strawberries, blackberries and raspberries,

a banana, granola, juice, I mix it all up,

that's my breakfast and I drink it.

-Yeah.

-Now, if I felt that I wanted to be in the smoothie business,

I'd take that recipe, I'd go to a manufacturer and I'd say,

"Touker's Smoothie."

But who is Touker?

I'll tell you who Touker is.

Touker actually is better known than you.

-Of course, yes.

-So, therefore, I've got more of a chance of

starting my own smoothie business than you have.

A battle of wills as Asif and Touker Suleyman

bicker over who has the most pulling power.

And now, Jenny Campbell's wrestling with the idea behind the nut box.

I wanted to pick up on this chamber thing.

So, what am I going to do, am I going to unscrew this and eat them out my

-hand and drink the...?

-That's right, yeah.

So, it's two separate compartments that can be left on your desk,

and you can nibble away at the nuts all day long,

and you can drink the smoothie.

So it's a liquid and solid meal replacement.

I don't see the connection there.

I would have bought a packet of nuts or something.

I think you're branching into something that's already existing in

many shapes and forms.

I think combining the two together is quite novel, and doing it in

-a nutritionally balanced way...

-Yes, we don't want to do things

that are novel.

We want to do things that get over novelty factor,

you know, and have a sustainable future.

Jenny Campbell deems Asif's smoothie and nut mix

an overcomplicated combination,

prompting Tej Lalvani to wonder how it's going down in the shops.

Have you tried approaching any of the big retailers?

Not at the moment, no, because at the moment it's got a shelf life of

-three days and...

-Three days?

-Yes.

Because it's got live ingredients in there.

Using the investment, which I'm hoping to get...

..these smoothies can be processed using HPP technique

to extend the shelf life to roughly 21 days.

So, you're saying from the day this is made,

it's got to sell off the shelves really, really quickly?

Now, that's fine if you've got the most amazing, revolutionary product,

but you will never convince them that it's worth taking a risk on.

Deborah, can I ask you a question, sorry?

How... What's the shelf life of a sandwich?

Yeah, but that's ambient.

And people buy sandwiches all day, every day.

This is a new product, that is very much into a narrow market,

-that I expect to last a little bit longer.

-Mmm-hmm.

The cold shoulder again from Deborah Meaden as the Dragons spot some

issues with Asif's product's short shelf life.

But has Peter Jones been convinced by the doctor's prescription

to eat yourself fit?

I'm always a great believer in being really straight to the point.

I'm being a bit frustrated here, but the thing is,

I don't think you realise, you haven't really looked at the market.

I have. I've done excessive market research.

Well, if you had, you will know that it's almost impossible to launch

a smoothie product into the market - especially into retail.

No, I disagree. It's got 12% annual growth rate,

combined annual growth rate, year-on-year.

It's a 5 billion industry, 85 million in the UK.

So, tell me how much did Innocent smoothies make in the first 15,

ten years of their life?

They had the biggest market share, so they must have sold millions.

-How much money did they make?

-In excess of tens of millions.

Well, I can tell you, they didn't make any money.

Did not make any money.

Yes, but I believe in my credentials...

Your credentials won't make a slight difference, sadly.

I'd much prefer you to stay in the profession of which you've been

trained to help and save lives,

because this product will never make it to the market and you'll never

make any money out of it. You have no chance.

I know that that might be hard to hear.

No, that's completely fine, because the smoothies,

I agree, the smoothies, it may be a saturated market.

Look, Asif, it's not something for me.

-I'm out.

-That's fine.

Peter Jones discharges himself from proceedings,

advising the doctor to stick to his day job.

And it looks like Asif's credentials are also on Touker Suleyman's mind.

I do respect the fact that you're a doctor,

and I do respect the fact that you're knowledgeable.

I'm a great believer of prevention is better than cure.

-Yeah, certainly.

-But you're not a businessman.

Mmm-hmm. That's what I'm here for. That's why I'm here.

No, but... Yeah, hold on. As far as business is concerned, I think...

you'd make more money being a consultant

to another smoothie company. You'd be a very rich man.

So, they are my kind words to you,

but my other words to you are very simple.

I'm not going to invest in your business,

-so I'm out.

-OK.

Asif, I really like the thinking behind it.

I love what you're trying to do, but if you can't improve this,

take Peter's advice.

It's a narrow market, it's wrongly branded,

and it's got intrinsic issues in terms of the way it's delivered.

This is not an investment.

I'm afraid I'm out.

Three Dragons now find Asif's recipe for success indigestible.

But Tej Lalvani is in the health business.

Does he see the doctor's product as a healthy fit with his own?

I'd say just do it very carefully, if you want to do it.

Approach it with care, see the feedback,

and I'd take Deborah's advice on board with the packaging as well.

It really doesn't communicate the benefits of your product and it

needs to be on the front. But otherwise, for me,

it's too much of a risk to invest.

I'm out.

Tej Lalvani's exit only leaves Jenny Campbell.

Could she be the Dragon to nurture the seeds of Asif's start-up?

Asif, do you own 100% of the business?

-I do, yes.

-What have you valued it at?

I think the company can be valued at half a million, £500,000.

How can you say this is worth half a million pounds?

Because a business's valuation is not solely based on its balance sheets.

-What is it based on, then?

-It's based on the potential market it's

going into, its place in that market, its differentiation,

its founder, its ethics, its ethos.

But a lot of that is future value with all the risks along the way.

-Yeah, exactly.

-You know, that's not an investment at all.

You are so early stage and you need somebody who you will listen to from

a business perspective.

But, today, it's not an investment for me.

-So, I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Good luck, Asif.

-Good luck.

-Thank you.

A less than smooth date with the Dragons as Asif

leaves the Den without the financial connection he was

looking for, but it's given serial risk taker Touker Suleyman

some food for thought about turning his breakfast into a business.

I've got more chance of using a Touker shake than anything else.

-You could call it Touker's Smooth.

-HE LAUGHS

Would I buy a Touker smoothie?

No, I wouldn't.

I think my auntie could make better smoothies.

So far tonight, £60,000 has already been pledged.

With your knowledge, expertise, Deborah, we'd like to accept.

So, if the Dragons are to be persuaded

to part with any more of their cash...

Would you say that if I wanted to invest, it would be a punt?

Part of me's going, "No, just don't do this," you know?

..our final entrepreneurs will need to have their wits about them.

That's not a good answer.

It doesn't excite me.

I'm wondering if you've got entrepreneurial freeze.

Keep on dreaming.

It's not going to be with my money.

London-based Dan Edwards is next in the Den tonight with a pioneering

exercise regime that's scaling the heights of ambition.

Our business is building better humans.

It's just a tool to train the body and mind through movement.

For us, its way more than a business,

and it's always going to be. It's just our way of life now.

I feel I should applaud.

I just hope you don't ask us to do that.

Oh, I wanted a go.

I do that every morning.

Great.

Hi, my name's Dan Edwards,

I'm the CEO and co-founder of Parkour Generations.

We're living in a world that is desperately in need of more movement.

The information age has given rise to very sedentary and immobile

lifestyles, and that's had people out looking for refreshing new ways

to get fit, get active, get mobile, and to engage with their body

and mind, and connect with their environment.

Parkour is a way of training the body and mind through

movement, including movements like running, jumping, climbing,

crawling, vaulting. Earlier this year,

parkour was recognised as a new sport in the UK,

which was the first country ever to do so.

We provide services such as teaching,

classes, workshops, events. We also provide for movies,

performance, live display, product launch.

We already have early-stage agreements with one of the largest

gym chains in the States, one of the most exclusive ones in the UK,

to launch our parkour programmes this summer and this autumn.

We're looking for £150,000 for 5% the company,

and we'd love to know if any of you goes would like to have a go.

-Yeah, let's do it.

-Why not?

-Let's do it.

-Let's do it, great.

A sure-footed pitch from Dan Edwards,

who is offering 5% of his movement

training classes in return for £150,000.

-So I'm going to come up, up.

-Pop up, that's it.

-I'm going to go over.

-Exactly.

-And I'm going to pop off.

And pop down. Beautiful.

Isn't that what they do at the end?

The next obstacle for the entrepreneur is the Dragons' questioning.

-That's it.

-Whoops.

-THEY LAUGH

-Yeah, yeah!

Beautifully done!

Starting with leisure industry insider and movie fan,

Deborah Meaden.

Dan, that was fun.

So, you do that really cool stuff over the roofs and over the...?

-Yeah.

-Do you do that?

-Yes, yes.

-And what films have you done?

Most recent productions we worked with were Spider-Man,

Assassin's Creed, Patient Zero.

So, I guess, for me, the most important question is,

could you get me a part in one of those movies doing parkour?

-Absolutely. A bit of training.

-OK, right, you're on.

All right, now, get serious.

You're obviously trading, you're doing a lot of work.

So, what's the turnover?

Last year was 424,000.

And the year before that was 357.

The year before that was 312.

-And profit?

-Profit last year was 64,000.

Profit the year before that was 28.

The year before that, we actually made a loss of about 50,000.

I think because we were building a facility in London, the gym.

How big do you see this going?

We see it fairly big. For example, in the fitness industry,

what we want to do is license our content. For example,

a gym chain in the States might have 500 clubs and the idea is

they pay a licence fee per club per year to have your brand and your

content in there, and you train their instructors,

and then they deliver the classes.

If you're above a certain age, say, I'm 40 plus,

how easy is it to learn some of these things?

Because you guys were doing somersaults and flips and presumably

that's quite hard to do?

What you see there is a little bit of the high-end stuff,

but it's absolutely accessible to everyone.

The vast majority of parkour training is just refining your

movement skills.

And what's been the reaction with gyms in the UK that you've

approached already for licencing something like this?

Most of them are very, very, very interested.

Which ones have you met and what have they said?

We've met pretty much all of the big ones, the Fitness Firsts,

the Virgins and the David Lloyds,

and they definitely want to engage with it,

but we haven't really found one that is exactly the right fit.

Well, what how do you mean, "the right fit,"

because presumably all of them should be really interested

-in something which is new and exciting?

-Yes, but there's

certain things that we want in place. So we're very interested

in making sure that it retains its movement quality.

-So, of the big chains, have any of them shown real interest?

-Yes.

-How many?

-Two to three were very, very interested,

and we are still in negotiations with some of them.

Tej Lalvani has uncovered potential interest,

but no take-up from big industry players,

which has left Peter Jones questioning the company's

seven-figure price tag.

I was hoping that you would come in and say, "Well,

"I've signed three gyms, we're doing a roll out,

"that's why we need 150,000,

"and we've already got all of these signed up,

"and here are the deals", but you're not.

Why have you come in with such a ludicrous valuation?

We are rolling out in summer with the second largest gym chain in the

States, so they will be piloting the programmes there,

and then they will roll out to their 450 clubs, so that is going ahead,

and in the UK in the autumn we will be rolling it out in London with

a very exclusive gym.

-One gym?

-Yeah, it's a very high-end gym.

It's a very expensive gym to be a member of.

Yeah, but it's kind of like you want to build a fire and you've, at the

moment you've collated some wood,

but you don't have the ability to light the fire.

You have no contracts in place,

and you're valuing this at three million,

which is a bit annoying.

I can completely understand how you might look at it that way.

It's been recognised as a sport in the UK, that is a huge thing,

so, this is the amount of work we have done to create this industry,

and ring-fence our products and our content and our brand.

That's the point, you haven't done that.

You have not done that at all.

Tell me about the agreements that you've got in the UK with one

gym, not a gym where it's an exclusive gym,

I want to know the big gyms.

So do you know Kicks? So Kicks is the most expensive...

-I'm a member of Kicks.

-Yeah, great, awesome.

If I go on Saturday and say,

"What activities have you got in your gym?",

-they will mention you, will they?

-They might keep it secret.

They won't keep it secret. They know me very well there.

But, yes, we are piloting the course in September.

-Have you signed up the agreement?

-Well...

-Is it signed?

-No, we haven't signed an agreement.

-Ah, ah!

-So, you haven't signed?

-No, no.

OK. Fine. So you've answered my question.

-You have not signed.

-Yeah.

I get the impression that you're dreaming.

So, all I can say to you is keep on dreaming,

it's not going to be with my money,

and I'm out.

A sceptical Touker Suleyman is the first Dragon out,

unconvinced by Dan's claims of impressive growth on the horizon.

But Jenny Campbell, queen of the business flip,

is more concerned about the company's financial structure.

You have used "we" a lot. Who owns this business?

There's three co-founders, so three shareholders.

So, the equity is 33 and a third each, is it?

-Yeah.

-And what money has gone into the business already?

There's no money has gone into it

from any loans or anything like that.

None of you have invested any money in this,

you've just lived on what it's generated?

Yeah.

So have you heard of the phrase in business,

-"Having your own skin in the game"?

-Yeah.

You've got no money in this business yourself, you've put nothing in.

I suppose we didn't have the cash to put in.

An investor will always want to see some level

-of investment from yourselves.

-We have entrepreneurs in the Den here

who have mortgaged their houses, sold their houses...

Don't speak on my behalf, cos actually I don't always want to see

money in the business. Speak on your behalf.

-Some investors will want to see that, yeah?

-Yeah.

You have to put yourself in an investor's shoes and say,

"What's an investor going to look for?"

And they need to see a credible entrepreneur, a credible product,

something that will give them a rate of return,

and it's impossible to see a rate of return on this,

for this level of investment,

for the level of equity that you're offering.

It is really quite difficult.

There's nothing concrete there at the moment to hold on to.

It's the first newly recognised sport in 30 years in the country,

-that's a big thing.

-I do recognise your passion

and enthusiasm for this.

I don't recognise the business opportunity at all.

I'm out.

Jenny Campbell doesn't see a viable proposition,

and is the second Dragon down.

Will Deborah Meaden,

who already has a foothold in gym-based exercise classes,

take a leap of faith and invest in this one?

So, Dan, I think it's really cool what you've done,

I think it's fantastic that you've got this recognised as a sport,

but the first two words I wrote down are "Class size."

How many people can you get into a class?

We run classes regularly that are up to 70 people in a class,

depending on the space. In a small space, so for example, in here,

we would probably have a max of 40 people in the class.

Now, I get that, but the point about class size is,

-gyms are looking to attract more people into those rooms.

-Yeah.

And every time you put a piece of kit in, it knocks a body out,

and it is the size of the movement that we were doing there,

you need space to do this that you don't need when you're standing next

door to each other and moving.

But also, it is going to be restricted to a certain type of person,

so it worries me that your market is getting smaller and smaller.

So, I won't be investing.

I'm out.

Thanks.

Dan, I think you've been really disingenuous coming in here with a

valuation of three million, and incredibly disappointing.

You've made it absolutely clear you don't want investment,

because you're valuing your business at 50 times its earnings,

which is ludicrous.

So, on that basis, I'm out.

As Peter Jones rejects the deal, irritated by the valuation,

only fitness fan Tej Lalvani is still in play.

Can Dan persuade the last Dragon standing that his training system

does have legs?

I actually love what you're doing.

You know, I've always loved climbing as a kid.

The only thing I'm struggling with is...

is the reception that you've got from some of the chains, I mean,

they should have adopted it and taken it and signed up,

and I think you're probably going to have a lot of difficulty.

My advice is to continue with the one gym that you're building,

make that a success, fill it up, and then move on to another location,

and you just own the franchises and build it up.

But, even as a punt, the equity split three ways between you,

and if I wanted 40%, I'm going to be the major shareholder.

And that just doesn't work.

It needs to be you guys driving the business forward.

It's not a feasible investment, so...

I'm out.

Thank you very much.

Cheers.

So, Dan vaults away without a Dragon investor,

unable to avoid the perhaps inevitable fate of those who

overprice their start-up in the Den.

Just valuations, people base valuations, it's...

-it's a real problem.

-It just gets in the way of a proper conversation,

-doesn't it?

-I'm pretty sure we are going to get investment at the

valuation we want. We will go on from here,

and prove the Dragons wrong.

Hoping for more success with the Dragons was Londoner Gemma Judd,

who was aiming to add a splash of colour to the

Den with her tanning accessory product.

As a massive fan of tan in the can but not of the mess it creates,

I've created a pop-up shield used to protect surrounding surfaces when

spraying just your arms and legs at home.

Touker Suleyman got an invitation he couldn't refuse.

-Would you like to get in it?

-Go on, Touks.

-Go on, Touker.

-Are you kidding me?

-No.

-No, you'd fit in whole bag!

-OK.

-Ooh.

-Beautiful.

-Oh, no.

-Boy, does that need a tan.

-Oh, no.

-Yeah.

-ALL:

-Ooh!

-Funny colour.

-It's my colour.

-Oh, is that what it is?

THEY LAUGH

Touker, that's not a good look.

One of your legs looks alive.

Having seen the colour of a Dragon's legs, Gemma was now hoping to see

the colour of the Dragons' money and seeking £50,000 to help her launch

her product onto the market.

-Beautiful modelling.

-Thank you.

But Deborah Meaden soon discovered the sales figures

were a little anaemic.

You're looking to launch the product?

-Yes.

-So, at the moment, you've got no sales at all?

I've sold 21, and that's to my best friends and close family members.

-Right, OK!

-But things soon took a "tan" for the worst.

So, how many have you sold without your friends?

Oh, four.

Jenny Campbell had a burning issue

with the name of the bronzing business.

Did you have to put UK on it to trademark it?

-Yes.

-So, haven't you limited your potential for global ambitions?

Probably, yes.

-Oh.

-I like Sprayaway UK.

-I like Sprayaway.

-Yeah.

-I just wish it didn't say UK underneath.

-Just don't read that bit.

-THEY LAUGH

Deborah Meaden had some personal experience to call on.

I've only had a little moment of spray tan in my life,

and that was when I was doing Strictly.

-Oh, I heard about that.

-And I suddenly became intimately familiar

with leg make-up and arm make-up and the rest of it.

But she still can-canned the idea.

Well done for coming up with it.

-Thank you.

-But I don't think massive market.

-I'm afraid I won't be investing.

-Thank you.

-I'm out.

It was left to the Dragon with different coloured legs...

-Are you dry?

-I'm dry.

..to draw a tan line under the proposal.

You've got enthusiasm, you've got the smile,

but you haven't really got a business.

-Yeah.

-So I'm out.

-OK.

And the tanning pitch was toast.

It probably wasn't the best shade for Touker.

I hope he washes it off afterwards.

Well, the final entrepreneur tonight is firefighter Daniel Cheddie,

here with two safety products he's created to save lives.

But will his passion to protect be enough to attract a Dragon investor?

When you get caught, you have to be ready to face the pressure.

It's a life-threatening situation that I'm put into.

Daniel's confident he'll stay calm when faced with the heat of the Den.

Hopefully, my experience will help me today.

After putting all my time into this for 12 years, and hopes and dreams,

investment would be absolutely amazing.

Hello, Dragons, my name is Daniel Cheddie.

I'm the owner of Glazesafe Limited,

and I'm looking for £60,000 for a 10% share of my business.

I'd like to present to you two award-winning and health and safety

products that I've designed for working at height.

Firstly, the Sashmate - window repair tools.

They're patented, trademarked and industry-recommended.

And secondly, the Stronghold -

mobile anchor point and barrier system.

I've been lucky enough to be a full-time firefighter for 15 years

now, and have been in the glazing industry ever since

I joined the family business.

At 19 years old, I had little experience,

but I was still sent out to do all the window repairs alone.

Almost all of which required scaffolds.

Finances meant we didn't have those options,

and so I was told to, "Stop moaning, just get the job done,

"and bring the money back."

After nearly falling out of windows, nearly dropping windows,

I realised there must be something I could make to help me.

The result was the Sashmate, and it did exactly that.

So, following the Sashmate tools,

a leading company was led to me with an issue they had -

how to work around an opening at height.

My solution is the Stronghold.

It can be used for any work at height, for windows,

lifts and building maintenance.

It has helped to win one company a £1 million installation contract,

saving their client £77,000 on scaffolds.

The last year, I sold 75 Sashmate tools, 150 accessories,

and eight Strongholds.

So, I hope, like me and my customers,

you can see the huge potential these

products have to save a lot of lives.

Thank you very much, Dragons.

Hoping the Dragons will snap up his deal is Daniel Cheddie,

with two safety products -

one that holds a window in place during a repair,

and the other that is designed to keep workers safe at height.

He's asking the £60,000 in return for 10% of his company.

First with the questions is Jenny Campbell,

who seems baffled by Daniel's day job.

-I heard you say that you're a full-time fireman...

-I am.

..but then also you'd been employed in the family glazing business

since you were 19. So, which one of those is it?

-It's everything.

-So you are a full-time fireman?

I'm a full-time firefighter and the director and designer of these

-award-winning products.

-Yeah.

-I also have a glazing business.

I specialise in repairs, so these are for me and my colleagues.

-OK.

-All full-time.

-Yeah.

-Unfortunately.

-Actually, you're working 96 hours a week or something?

-Yeah.

Daniel, can I ask, how much do these cost?

This whole set as you see it now is £2,820 currently.

What's it costing you to make?

That would be 1,152 with some parts that we buy in,

some soft equipment that we buy in.

Are we making those in the UK?

All made locally to me.

So far, so good,

as Daniel reveals an unbending work ethic,

and margin-friendly inventions.

And it seems that Peter Jones has already pinpointed a potential route

to success for the products.

Daniel, I think it's a great invention,

and clearly does what it says on the tin.

But my first thing that hit me straightaway was that this could be

something that you could license or put into the hire industry or HSS,

somewhere you let somebody else do the work.

So, I'm really glad that you've noticed that.

This is a hire product.

They've got the contacts already.

It also allows them to look at the cost of manufacture,

the fact that you own the patent, the fact that you've got everything,

but how difficult is it to do something quite similar?

It's not that difficult.

I personally think it is, Peter.

I am a designer. That's where my passion lies.

I've tried to make it simpler and better so many times, and I can't.

But that... That's not a good answer,

because sadly there's also designers that will take this apart,

and find areas where they can create something potentially better.

I'm telling you, this is safe, because...

-Have you got it here, your patent?

-I haven't, I'm afraid.

I've got all the other proofs of patents that I can show you.

-See... Oh.

-It's really...

Why didn't you bring your patent?

I thought... Sorry,

but I did think you would want to see proof of patent.

Daniel, I don't get why you didn't bring the patent.

That's just introduced a bit of a stunned silence,

particularly because Peter's idea of licencing, all...

All, the whole value,

will sit in that patent.

Without this crucial piece of paperwork,

Daniel's pitch abruptly hits the buffers.

Will Tej Lalvani get him back on track as he turns his attention to

the company's figures?

Why have you only sold 75 units?

-In the last year?

-In the last year.

-I just...

I haven't focused on sales at all.

As I say, the sales are, actually, a bonus to keep me designing,

but I've finished designing,

I've got these patented now and that was my ultimate goal to get...

No, no, no. You've got this product which is great and, you know,

it cuts the cost down. You don't need three people,

-one person's enough.

-Yeah.

-It's safe.

So, why haven't you focused on selling that and building

-up the sales on that?

-Because I was designing this.

But now this is done, I can actually focus on the sales.

Daniel, one question.

-How many stock have you got?

-20 of these strongholds.

-Yeah.

-And other accessories.

-Did you have any pre-orders?

-Sorry? No, no, no.

-No pre-orders?

No. I need stock.

So, you've got 20 of those ready to go?

-Yeah.

-But you don't have pre-sales?

-No.

-So, if I was in your shoes, I would be saying to my agents,

"I've got this great product coming, here's the sales deal,

"I want you to go and get pre-orders on them."

-Yeah.

-But you haven't done any of that.

You know, you're a very, very likeable guy,

and very investable from that perspective.

But I'm wondering if you've got entrepreneurial freeze.

-Are you a salesman?

-I'm not a salesman, no.

-Definitely not.

-Are you saying you can't do that?

I can. Of course, I can,

but I've never had any sales experience at all.

As Daniel admits to a gaping hole in his entrepreneur's toolkit,

his hopes for investment are hanging by a thread.

But will Deborah Meaden with her track record in building trade

investments want to dust off her hard hat for this one?

I'm sitting here quietly thinking, "Well, actually, licencing,

"I can't really think about, because I haven't seen the patent."

But the sales haven't really picked up.

Now, I'll tell you why that worries me,

because the construction industry is one of those spaces where if people see it and love it,

they're going to have to have it.

This is visual. This isn't tucked away somewhere.

-Yeah.

-This is something that people walk past and think,

"Oh, look at that. That's brilliant.

-"Where did you get that from?"

-Yeah.

-"I need one."

What I'm worried about is there's been no sign of that.

I'm really sorry, Daniel.

I'm just thinking, there must be something that I've forgotten to

tell you that will change your mind.

And he says he's not a salesman.

-He's very persuasive.

-He says he's not a salesman.

-He is very persuasive.

-I'm just talking from the heart, honestly.

-Yeah.

-I think the fact that this has saved one company two million on

scaffold, it's won them a ten-year contract.

They had five blocks of flats, 24 stories each,

and they had to update every single opener,

and everything was safe without scaffold.

You've stopped me saying those two words.

-I'm not saying I won't say them in a minute.

-No, no, fair enough.

-But I'm going to go quiet.

I'm glad I've kept you going a little bit longer.

By summoning up all his inner salesman,

Daniel douses the Dragons' flames of doubt for now.

Has he swung into action just in time

to inspire an investment from Peter Jones?

Daniel, it's a great product.

But I sit here in this chair to look for people that I can invest in and

businesses I can get behind and look to where I can help,

where I can add value, and at the same time, think, "Right,

"where's the future of this business?"

And I don't see the business.

I genuinely believe that you should license this to people that will do

a really good job for you,

so, sadly, I'm going to tell you that I'm out.

Peter Jones struggles to get fired up by the deal,

and is the first Dragon to head for the exit.

And Tej Lalvani is ready to have his say.

When I want to invest in a company,

I need to be excited about the product, obviously.

For some reason, it doesn't excite me.

The other aspect is the number of sales you've done is a bit concerning.

So, I wish you the best, but I'm out.

Daniel, your pitch, your explanation,

all the patents you've got,

you're miles and miles ahead of anybody I've seen for a while.

Would you say that...

if I wanted to invest, it would be a punt?

On 60,000, it would be a punt.

I'll make you an offer.

OK.

Far half the money,

but I want 20%.

So, if one of the other Dragons wants to come in with me, it is a punt.

Catching the Den by surprise,

Touker Suleyman throws Daniel a safety net in the form of an offer,

but for only half the money and even that at twice the total equity the

entrepreneur wanted to give away.

Will Deborah Meaden,

who was earlier pulled back from the point of no return,

also see a window of opportunity?

Daniel, my gut instinct is telling me, there's a market,

it's just not huge,

and the fact that enough people in the construction industry have seen

this by now, I should have heard about it.

I should have heard it in the bars.

Somebody should have been telling me about it.

So, I'm really sorry, really sorry, but I won't be investing, Daniel.

-I'm out.

-Thank you, Deborah.

As Deborah Meaden ditches the deal,

Daniel's prospects hinge on Jenny Campbell -

either matching Touker Suleyman with half the money for 20%

or making a rival bid of her own.

I'm musing over, you know, has this product got legs?

Is it going to take off?

But it is a bit of a leap in the dark,

and you do need some help on the commercial side.

-Yeah.

-And part of me is going, "No, just don't do this," you know.

But there's also a bigger part saying,

"Why don't we give this a go?"

I think we can do something with this.

So I will offer you half the money

for 10%.

OK.

Touker, is there any room for negotiation on that?

OK.

You deserve a break.

And I will budge on my 20%...

..but it will be 15.

My revised offer would be to match that.

Now the two Dragons who have made offers

are in sync with their equity bids.

But as they want 30% of the company,

Daniel has a tough decision to make.

Could you reduce the percentage to 12% each?

It's a punt.

It is.

OK. I accept your deal.

-Great.

-Super.

-Fantastic.

-Thank you.

Thank you very much.

-Thank you, all.

-Well done.

-Well done, Daniel.

-Congratulations. Good luck.

-Thank you. See you.

After a bumpy ride in the Den, Daniel eventually triumphs,

and secures the backing of two top-notch Dragons.

I'm really excited about the future,

to see these products all over the world, save some lives.

It feels amazing.

And then maybe send a letter to Peter and Deborah to say,

"Ha-ha, you missed out."

The Den has always attracted a rich variety of businesses,

and never more than tonight where we've had somersaults,

stunts and smoothies, which unfortunately didn't do the trick.

Ultimately, it's the people and the product that really capture the

Dragons' attention, and Poppy the dog,

and firemen Daniel Cheddie proved that perfectly,

as they walked away with investment.

Coming up next time...

Right now,

you have absolutely no negotiating tools in here whatsoever.

You've made it impossible to invest.

That feels like spray and pray to me,

and you need to pray at the moment.

That's not good news. You need to be a little bit less greedy and start

-sharing.

-This is a bit of a mess.

Enthusiasm, passion, drive, you've got it.

I think you've got a chance here.

-They loved us, didn't they?

-They did, yeah.