Episode 13 Dragons' Den


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Episode 13

A baby-faced entrepreneur takes Peter Jones by surprise with his business which offers advertising space on the move, but will the surprise lead to an investment?


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Tonight, be prepared...

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..for some fireworks in the Den...

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About 80% of your product, I actually don't like.

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Your valuation is crazy.

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..as the five Dragon multimillionaires...

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I do know this market.

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You're very investable.

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..do some straight talking.

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-I think that's nonsense.

-You're going to be breaking even

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if you're lucky, with that sort of margin.

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You want my help - what, with a magic wand?

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Some entrepreneurs will hit the jackpot...

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You're great, you can tell how competent you are.

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..while others lose the plot.

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You win. I don't make you an offer.

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Do you know when you have that term when you, like, dig a hole?

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Are you feeling that at the moment?

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But who has what it takes to get a Dragon on board?

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You are highly investable.

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-This is not a barter game.

-We're getting further apart now.

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That was a little bit crazy, wasn't it?

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Welcome to Dragons' Den -

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the place where entrepreneurs hungry for cash come face-to-face

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with five multimillionaires with an appetite for investment.

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But with their own money at risk,

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expect the Dragons to show no mercy to those whose ideas don't promise

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a lucrative return.

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First to confront the Dragons is an entrepreneur

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youthful in years, but big on ideas.

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I'm a really young entrepreneur.

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The Den started when I was ten.

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I never imagined I'd be here, but look at this!

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And Edward Hollins has had a

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business brainwave that he's determined to make a success of.

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I've got a vision, I want to make my mark on the world.

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Good morning, Dragons.

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I'm Edward Hollins, the young entrepreneur behind DrivenMedia,

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a business that takes an overlooked space

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that's been staring you in your face on your way here today.

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I would have brought one of our adverts along today,

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but I doubt it would have fitted into the lift,

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let alone be allowed into the Den.

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I'm looking to give you a 10% equity stake

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in return for a £30,000 investment.

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DrivenMedia turns commercial trucks travelling across the country into

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mobile billboards.

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I want to run through a few reasons why truck advertising is

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a great media space.

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Firstly, while you're driving, or being driven around,

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you are incredibly receptive to advertising.

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Secondly, each trailer is seen on average by 55,000 people

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on a daily basis. This puts our average cost per thousand at 75p,

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making truck advertising the most cost-effective advertising platform

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in the UK today. I'm going to give you a model

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with how you might look on our billboards. Thank you.

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An enthusiastic pitch from Derby-based Edward Hollins.

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-There you go.

-Thank you.

-He's seeking a £30,000 fuel injection

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from a Dragon, in return

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for a 10% stake in his mobile billboard business.

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-There you go.

-Wow.

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But Peter Jones is wondering if this is already a road well travelled.

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Edward, it's not a new idea, a new concept.

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Trucks have been putting this type of facias on their trailers

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-for many years.

-Yeah.

-What's different about your business

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-and your idea?

-In recent years, with technology, you've been able to put

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GPS trackers on the trailers.

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All of our hauliers have a contract where they've got to do a minimum

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of five hours a day driving time, five days a week.

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And it's using these GPS trackers that we can monitor them to

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make sure they're not stuck in their yard for three months.

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-OK, and have you set the business up?

-Yes, it's been trading

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-for 20 months.

-You've been trading for 20 months?

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Wow. And you've been doing this while still at school?

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I graduated from the University of Derby

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three months before I set this up.

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-You've graduated?

-I'm 22.

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You're not 22! Are you?!

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I am, yes. I've got my passport if you need to see!

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You're 22? Wow, you lucky devil!

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OK. You've been going 20 months.

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-Yes.

-And how many trucks have you signed up?

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Four trucks. But we've got over 1,000 trailers we can access

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within 24 hours.

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OK, and what have you turned over in the last 12 months?

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£18,000.

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And out of that 18,000, what's the profit, how do you make money?

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So an advertiser would buy a package for one lorry

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for a 12-month period, for £7,800 plus VAT.

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And then it costs me about £5,500 for production,

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and whatever's left over is the profit for the business.

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So you make £2,000 for every contract you sign?

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Yes.

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Really good. OK.

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The baby-faced entrepreneur reveals a sophisticated business model

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with the potential for some very grown-up returns.

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But textiles expert Touker Suleyman

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has some concerns about the costs involved.

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Edward, your £7,800 for a big haulage is quite expensive.

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-A Luton van is less than a trailer.

-What is it for a Luton van?

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-It would be £5,000 plus VAT.

-It's still expensive.

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Is that because of the cost of the printing?

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-Yes, exactly.

-What does that cost you?

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-Let's say for a Luton van?

-It would cost me about £1,500

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-for fully wrapped.

-OK. If you focus on that, you could probably reduce

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the cost dramatically.

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I print fabric in Turkey, they charge me 2 a metre.

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-Right?

-Yes.

-On what material is it printed on?

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-Weather-resistant vinyl.

-So if you source the raw material,

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if you go to a printer who's got a printer of that size...

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-You just say, "Print it."

-Yeah.

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-I like that idea.

-You like the idea?

-Yeah.

-Good! Good.

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The entrepreneur gets some cost-cutting advice

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from textile supremo Touker Suleyman.

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But Jenny Campbell is wondering why the brakes still appear to be on

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when it comes to the take-up of the advertising.

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Edward, you talked about having 1,000 trailers within 24 hours.

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-Yeah.

-But you've only been trading on four lorries.

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-Yes.

-Now, what's missing?

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What's getting in the way of you finding the adverts

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to put on the thousand lorries you can source tomorrow?

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-It's the lack of awareness.

-With the advertisers?

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Yes, exactly.

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What adverts would you see, are the ones you'd really like to go for?

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So insurance, where there's not a physical product. So, especially

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car insurance. They'll be right in front of their potential audience.

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-OK. Have you ever got in front of an insurance company?

-I have, yes.

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-And? Who was it?

-Be Wiser and CarFinance 247.

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OK. And what did they say?

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CarFinance are considering it for next year

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and Be Wiser have said, "Come back to me in September

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"because we're very open to this idea."

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OK. I like that, and you'll always find with finance companies,

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insurance companies, all those in that industry, which I come from,

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that they're in budget cycles, OK?

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So there's a timing thing going on here with that industry.

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Interest from a lucrative market that she knows inside-out

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has got Jenny Campbell's wheels turning.

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Deborah Meaden now wants to find out if anyone else is helping to drive

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Edward's company forward.

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So, who's in the business at the moment, is it you?

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-There is just me at the minute.

-Yeah.

-But we've got two investors

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about a similar age to myself who are investing £5,000 each

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-for a 10% stake each.

-OK. But other than that, it's you?

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-Just me.

-OK.

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Going forward as the business grows,

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can you just talk about your projections?

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So, this year we're aiming to turn over £250,000.

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OK, so your turnover, you're expecting 250,000.

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Gross profit would be...

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..120,000.

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OK.

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So what does the net profit look like in year one?

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-Of the...?

-Of the 250,000.

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Er...

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Er...

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I'm just trying to get that row of numbers that starts with 250,000

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at the top, goes to 120,000 gross profit.

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Net profit?

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Sorry. £80,000.

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When you're in business, you don't need to know a lot of numbers.

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But you do need to know the three numbers

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that are really going to make your business tick.

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-Yes.

-You need to know your turnover, your margins, your net profit.

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That's what you need to know.

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Edward's inability to give Deborah Meaden some basic business figures

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is threatening to stall his pitch.

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And now Peter Jones wants to take issue

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with the valuation he's placed on his company.

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Edward...

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..you are asking for 30,000 for 10%.

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-Yes.

-So you're valuing your business at 300,000.

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And yet you're valuing the company to your friends at 50,000, cos

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you've just said they invest 5,000 and they get 10% of the company.

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Is that just because you think I've got more money than them?

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No, it's because of their experience,

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they've actually come through your programme.

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-Have they?

-Yes, both of them.

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So they're from the Peter Jones Enterprise Academy?

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-Yes.

-OK, well, then I understand

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why they're worth a lot more than any Dragon!

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THEY CHUCKLE

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But whilst it's lovely to hear that,

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and I think that's really great, why would you value your business

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with me at 300,000, and 50,000 to them?

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I thought they'd be able to contribute to the business

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for a lot longer, you know, because obviously they're sort of my age,

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so they're going to be working... 50, 60 years, worst case.

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Towards the eventual goal.

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Are you suggesting it's because I'm old

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that you don't want to give me too much of your company?

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No, I think it was at the stage of the business...

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Do you know when you have that term where it's, like, dig a hole?

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-Yeah, I've got to stop digging!

-Are you feeling that at the moment?

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Yeah.

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I'd better stop.

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Edward, I think you're very investable.

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I think you are confident, you listen to advice.

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As a business in terms of size, I think it's very small.

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I think you need to build it, prove it a bit more, the model,

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and make it work.

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But unfortunately the business for me today...

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..I won't be investing. But all the best. I'm out.

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Tej Lalvani decides not to climb aboard the lorry billboard business.

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Has Peter Jones heard anything to encourage him to reunite

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with his Academy alumni and invest in the young entrepreneur?

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I like this concept, I think that this is a concept for the future.

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I think if you'd got really on top of your numbers and come in here

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with a really concise plan...

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..it could have gone really well for you.

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But it's too early a stage at the moment

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for me to take you on that journey and invest in you.

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So I'm going to say that I'm out.

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But I wish you every best of luck cos I think

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you are an entrepreneur-in-waiting and you're going to make it happen.

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Thank you.

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Edward, my job, I feel, as an investor, is to take the seed

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of this idea and to really make that business work.

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Not to become a mentor, a daily mentor, running a business.

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And I think you're still in that phase.

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So I'm really sorry, Edward, but I won't be investing. I'm out.

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Deborah Meaden is unconvinced

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and steers clear of the advertising offering.

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Touker Suleyman has already dished out some business advice.

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Will he now go one step further and dish out some dosh?

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-Edward, where do you live?

-I live in Derby.

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Derby. Ah.

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-That's north.

-I know where it is!

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I am excited for you. And I think you will succeed.

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But you need intense mentoring.

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And it's disappointing you live in Derby

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because I would've liked you in my office every day,

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working with us, you know? I would've liked to be your mentor.

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But it's not going to be possible today.

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I'm not going to invest, and I'm out.

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Touker Suleyman keeps his pounds in his pocket and becomes

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the fourth Dragon to walk away from a deal.

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Jenny Campbell is the youthful entrepreneur's last chance

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of investment. Will she take his business to the next level

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or send him away with nothing?

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Edward, how are you feeling?

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-Still a bit nervous!

-Presumably you're nervous about walking out

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without an investment, because that's what you came for today.

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Yes.

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So, look, this is where I am.

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I sold my business last year, having built it from a very poorly business

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to a very successful business.

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And I had a fleet of 4,000 ATMs in the UK and a thousand in Europe.

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They're metal boxes. I know how to wrap metal boxes.

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You are highly investable.

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I am going to make you an offer.

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I'm going to offer you all of the money...

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..but for my investment in you, I would want 20% of your business.

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I'd be very happy with that.

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Well, that was a quick response! I need to teach you

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some of that stuff. But anyway, for now...

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-I was going to say!

-In one of the quickest deliberations ever seen

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in the Den, the entrepreneur accepts Jenny Campbell's terms...

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-Thank you, all.

-Congratulations.

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..and drives off into a lucrative future with a Dragon on board.

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And, I LOVE the fact that you live in Derby.

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-I'm a northern girl.

-Thank you very much.

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20% is absolutely perfect, so that's why I went, "Yeah!"

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I'm taking that now before you take it away!

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I love the fact that he accepted your offer before you finished.

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-Bless him.

-He knows a good offer when he sees one.

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I think me and Jenny could be the northern powerhouse.

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The potential's there. I'm just really excited

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and I can't wait to get going.

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Next to face the Dragons is Manchester-based Rimi Dabhia...

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..who is hoping a much-practised pitch will stand her in good stead

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for the white heat of the Den.

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Preparing to go into the Den,

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I've pitched to family and friends. However,

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I think the Dragons will be a little bit more intense.

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I am in awe of Deborah Meaden,

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and I would love for her to invest, so bring it on, Dragons.

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Hello, Dragons. My name's Rimi,

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and I am founder and head hustler at LoveRaw.

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We make innovative, healthy food and drink products

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which are dairy-, gluten-, and refined-sugar-free.

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Today, I am asking for £50,000 investment for 5% of my company.

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When I started making snack bars in 2013,

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there was nothing good quality on the market,

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so there was the eureka moment.

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I started making the bars in my tiny kitchen at home.

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I started the business with £600.

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Six months later, I was hand-making 3,000 bars a week.

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A year later, we launched our organic superfood boosters,

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which are a nutritionally dense powder added to your everyday meals.

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And, two months ago,

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we launched our flavoured on-the-go almond drinks,

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which come in three eclectic flavours.

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Some of our stockists include Whole Foods, Planet Organic

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and, of this week, Sainsbury's.

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The potential is huge, so I welcome any questions, but first,

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would you like to try some products?

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-Please.

-We'd love to, thanks.

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A confident pitch from entrepreneur Rimi Dabhia...

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It's quite a large pack.

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..who's hoping her range of powdered food supplements, natural drinks

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-and snack bars...

-Thank you.

-Oh, wow!

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..will be a tasty proposition for a Dragon.

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She's asking for £50,000 in return for a 5% stake in her business.

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Shake them before you open the drinks, please.

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Jenny Campbell is first to grill the healthy head honcho.

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-Hi, Rimi.

-Hi.

-You've done fantastically well.

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You know, you're trading with all the right people,

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so just tell me last year's numbers, then.

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Turnover, gross profit, net profit.

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In year one, the revenue was 170,000, with net profit of 11.

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Year two

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was 129 net profit.

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Year three was 86,000 net.

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Last year's figures, the revenue's been 274,000,

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but we made a net loss of 58,000.

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-What happened?

-It's, erm...

-Cos that was going swimmingly well.

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In 2015, I experienced major complications in my pregnancy...

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-OK, sorry to hear that.

-..and I couldn't work.

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I was told, bed rest, no stress...

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So the business had to take a step back because family life

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-was important.

-For six months. And that lag, you know,

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in '15-'16, has shown up in '16-'17.

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-OK.

-However, the last three months of sales have been improving,

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and the drinks have been launched with Sainsbury's today.

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-Today?

-Yeah.

-OK, congratulations!

-Thank you.

0:19:120:19:16

The entrepreneur reveals a big supermarket contract

0:19:170:19:21

and a determination to succeed -

0:19:210:19:23

two big ticks on any shrewd investor's check list.

0:19:230:19:27

And Tej Lalvani is thirsty for information

0:19:270:19:30

on whether Rimi's margins are just as impressive.

0:19:300:19:34

-Hi, Rimi.

-Hi.

-So, you mentioned the drinks.

0:19:350:19:38

Tell me your cost of manufacture, wholesale and retail price.

0:19:380:19:41

They're £2.29. We make them for 80p and we sell them at £1.25.

0:19:410:19:46

Wow, I really am surprised.

0:19:460:19:49

That leaves you no margin at all.

0:19:490:19:51

You are going to be breaking even if you're lucky,

0:19:510:19:53

with that sort of margin.

0:19:530:19:54

Can you just tell me about the other products?

0:19:540:19:56

The blends are £3...

0:19:560:19:59

£3 cost?

0:19:590:20:01

-£3 cost.

-Wow, that's a lot.

0:20:010:20:03

Yes. We sell them on at £8.21.

0:20:030:20:07

And then they retail for £14.99.

0:20:070:20:09

Is someone going to spend £15 on a powder which they are not sure

0:20:100:20:14

how it's going to taste when they put it on food?

0:20:140:20:17

We've sold, erm...

0:20:170:20:19

..63,000 units so far.

0:20:190:20:22

Well, the last year, how much have you sold?

0:20:220:20:24

Sorry, I can't tell you that.

0:20:260:20:28

-Erm...

-Sorry to interrupt you, but I think that's really quite important.

0:20:280:20:32

-You can't answer it?

-In the last 12 months,

0:20:320:20:34

how many have we sold with the...

0:20:340:20:36

Yeah, that tells us where the business is now, cos you've had

0:20:360:20:39

a bit of a freefall in the business at one point.

0:20:390:20:41

You've given us a good reason why, I appreciate that.

0:20:410:20:43

But, actually, it sounds like that could...

0:20:430:20:46

It was in my head, sorry, but, erm...

0:20:460:20:48

I just can't remember the...

0:20:480:20:51

..the amount.

0:20:520:20:54

The entrepreneur forgets her figures and suffers a setback in the Den.

0:20:570:21:01

Deborah Meaden has been sampling the products.

0:21:020:21:05

But it's the packaging that has caught her attention.

0:21:050:21:08

Rimi, I don't like your branding.

0:21:080:21:11

I don't think that product looks like it's got

0:21:120:21:15

-anything to do with that product on the right.

-Yeah.

0:21:150:21:18

They look incredibly different.

0:21:180:21:20

We were trying to be a little bit different on the blends.

0:21:200:21:23

Well, the one thing about branding is you want to be able to look at

0:21:230:21:26

a product and know that it is part of an instantly recognisable set.

0:21:260:21:30

And I didn't get that at all, and I think

0:21:300:21:32

if you carry on with those three products

0:21:320:21:34

you really need to look like a set, but thereby hangs MY issue.

0:21:340:21:38

I think that's your product.

0:21:400:21:42

It tastes lovely, but it's also really good for you.

0:21:440:21:47

Are there many more out there?

0:21:470:21:49

Are you actually the first on-the-go cold-pressed...?

0:21:490:21:52

No, there's no other on the market with the almond drinks

0:21:520:21:54

at the moment, they are the...

0:21:540:21:55

That's your interest, and that's why people are...

0:21:550:21:58

I can see why those would... I can absolutely see why they would sell.

0:21:580:22:03

Rimi, how you've created this is really good.

0:22:030:22:07

But I can't change one thing.

0:22:090:22:10

About 80% of your product, I actually don't like.

0:22:120:22:14

And, I have to personally believe it, taste it, feel it...

0:22:170:22:22

..and you haven't given me that Levi Roots moment.

0:22:230:22:26

So, for that reason, I'm out.

0:22:280:22:29

Peter Jones decides the health food company isn't to his taste,

0:22:320:22:35

and becomes the first Dragon to leave the negotiations.

0:22:350:22:39

And now, Touker Suleyman is wondering if the business has

0:22:400:22:44

a long-term future in such a congested market.

0:22:440:22:47

It's amazing how, from £600, you've created a brand,

0:22:500:22:54

you've created a business, but I'm just trying to get my head round...

0:22:540:22:58

..where the business is going to go beyond this year and next year.

0:22:590:23:03

Do you think that you've got enough innovation to sustain the growth and

0:23:030:23:08

-be ahead of the game?

-I do believe that, yes.

0:23:080:23:11

Erm... We are launching in 320 Waitrose stores in July,

0:23:110:23:16

we are in deep negotiation with Ocado

0:23:160:23:20

and I have a meeting with Marks & Spencer next month.

0:23:200:23:24

I'm going to make you an offer.

0:23:280:23:29

I think, in this case, two Dragons might be better than one...

0:23:310:23:34

..so I'm willing to put up -

0:23:360:23:38

I don't know if Tej wants to come in with me -

0:23:380:23:41

half the money, which is £25,000,

0:23:410:23:45

but I want 15%. If Tej agrees, then you will have two Dragons.

0:23:450:23:49

Touker Suleyman makes a half offer for the business,

0:23:530:23:57

but chooses to invite only one other Dragon to join him.

0:23:570:24:00

Will Tej Lalvani who, on paper, is Rimi's ideal investor,

0:24:000:24:05

accept the invitation to partner up,

0:24:050:24:08

or will he even make a competing bid?

0:24:080:24:10

Rimi, I think the bar business is very competitive,

0:24:130:24:17

it's going to be struggling. I'm not really keen on the taste of them.

0:24:170:24:20

-OK.

-The powders,

0:24:200:24:22

I'm not sure what sort of market you are going to get with that,

0:24:220:24:25

and it's a bit confusing.

0:24:250:24:26

And your logo does not stand out.

0:24:270:24:29

But that obviously can be sorted out.

0:24:330:24:36

And what I do every day is branding, basically, and I think,

0:24:370:24:41

what you developed in terms of formulation and natural press

0:24:410:24:44

is unique.

0:24:440:24:46

But my main issue is your margin.

0:24:480:24:51

Yeah.

0:24:510:24:53

At 45p per product, you've got all your overheads to cover,

0:24:550:24:58

you've got your marketing budget.

0:24:580:25:00

So...

0:25:000:25:02

..I think, on that reason alone...

0:25:150:25:16

..I'm going to have to say...

0:25:180:25:19

..I'm out.

0:25:220:25:23

Tej Lalvani decides the health food business is a risk too far.

0:25:250:25:30

With his hopes of a partnership dashed,

0:25:310:25:33

Touker Suleyman must decide whether to go it alone.

0:25:330:25:37

Rimi, if Tej is out, I'm very disappointed.

0:25:370:25:41

Erm...

0:25:410:25:43

I thought two Dragons would be better than one.

0:25:430:25:45

And for that reason, I'm out.

0:25:470:25:48

With just two Dragons remaining,

0:25:510:25:54

the entrepreneur is running out of options.

0:25:540:25:56

Does Jenny Campbell think

0:25:580:25:59

there's a business opportunity in the health food enterprise?

0:25:590:26:02

When you came into the Den, and announced yourself,

0:26:100:26:13

you said you were the head hustler.

0:26:130:26:15

-Yeah.

-And I love that phrase and I began to think, you know,

0:26:150:26:18

I can help that girl hustle cos she's definitely hustled so far.

0:26:180:26:21

But, I really wanted to hear the, erm...

0:26:230:26:25

..the Dragon leading the healthy lifestyle revolution say

0:26:250:26:28

that he can do something with this and take it somewhere,

0:26:280:26:31

and I've not heard that.

0:26:310:26:33

-So, I wish you all the best, and I'm out.

-Thank you.

0:26:350:26:38

Rimi...

0:26:410:26:42

..this, I think, is your big one.

0:26:440:26:47

I do think you've got something in this.

0:26:490:26:51

And I think you're really good.

0:26:530:26:55

I'm going to make you an offer.

0:27:030:27:05

But your valuation is crazy.

0:27:080:27:12

OK.

0:27:120:27:13

I did work with somebody in finance to work out valuation.

0:27:140:27:19

You hold on to your valuation, I will hold on to my valuation.

0:27:190:27:22

And we will see whether there is a way of meeting in the middle.

0:27:220:27:25

I thought you were going to talk me out of making you an offer, then.

0:27:270:27:30

No, I would never do that!

0:27:300:27:31

However, we did also...

0:27:310:27:33

This is a first in the Den,

0:27:330:27:35

I've never actually been talked out of making an offer.

0:27:350:27:37

We have had - we have been approached by Angel Investors, also.

0:27:370:27:41

-And they have valued at 1.5, which is, yeah...

-OK.

0:27:410:27:46

You win. I don't make you an offer.

0:27:460:27:48

No, but I wouldn't want that. I-I-I-I'm here today...

0:27:500:27:53

No, but that was a little bit crazy, wasn't it?

0:27:530:27:55

-We're getting further apart, now.

-No.

0:27:550:27:58

I don't really care what other investors out there think.

0:27:580:28:02

Of course.

0:28:020:28:03

But I'm going to offer you all of the money...

0:28:070:28:10

..and I want...

0:28:130:28:16

I want 30% of the business.

0:28:160:28:17

Thank you very much for your offer.

0:28:210:28:23

-Can I, erm...

-Talk to the wall?

0:28:250:28:27

-Yeah.

-Go and talk to the wall.

0:28:270:28:29

There's just a single offer to consider,

0:28:310:28:34

but Deborah Meaden is asking for six times the equity

0:28:340:28:37

that the entrepreneur was originally offering.

0:28:370:28:41

Will she make the extra sacrifice to get a Dragon on board?

0:28:410:28:45

Deborah, would you be willing to do 10%?

0:28:530:28:57

-10%?

-10%?

0:28:570:28:59

No.

0:28:590:29:00

When I sit here, I don't just throw a number out and think I'm going

0:29:030:29:06

to get away with it. I sit here and I think,

0:29:060:29:08

"Actually, what do I think this business is worth?"

0:29:080:29:10

-So, I'm really sorry, but that was my fair offer.

-OK.

0:29:100:29:14

I-I just can't stretch to 30.

0:29:240:29:27

The most I can maybe do is 15.

0:29:270:29:30

-I think we are too far apart.

-Yeah.

0:29:340:29:36

I'm afraid I'm out.

0:29:380:29:40

-Thank you.

-Good luck.

0:29:400:29:43

-Thank you.

-Deborah Meaden stands her ground

0:29:430:29:46

and ends her interest in the health food offering.

0:29:460:29:50

And the entrepreneur makes her exit with her equity intact,

0:29:500:29:53

but minus the £50,000 she was seeking.

0:29:530:29:57

She should have taken that offer. I think it's good in a way, because

0:29:570:30:00

those margins... It would be difficult to get away with.

0:30:000:30:02

-I think you got away with it.

-You were lucky not to get into that.

0:30:020:30:05

-Yeah, I think so.

-Well, I wanted to.

0:30:050:30:07

I let the Dragon get away, so, yeah, I've got to live with that.

0:30:090:30:14

However, I am still a hustler, and I'll continue to hustle,

0:30:140:30:18

and I will take it to the next level.

0:30:180:30:20

So far, the Dragons have been firm...

0:30:280:30:31

-It's quite expensive.

-..but also more than fair...

0:30:310:30:35

I am going to make you an offer, you are highly investable.

0:30:350:30:37

..and as the remaining entrepreneurs try their luck in the Den...

0:30:370:30:42

-Lee, listen, focus.

-..they'll need to bring their A-game.

0:30:420:30:45

I don't know what that means.

0:30:450:30:47

I don't see what's even slightly unique about this.

0:30:470:30:50

And, for those who succeed...

0:30:500:30:52

You're great, you can tell how competent you are.

0:30:520:30:54

..the Dragons are prepared to put up a fight.

0:30:550:30:58

Is there one Dragon which you really want,

0:30:580:31:00

or is it just playing games between us?

0:31:000:31:02

Walking into the Den can be

0:31:060:31:08

a nerve-racking experience, but next up

0:31:080:31:11

is a teacher from London,

0:31:110:31:13

who has a novel approach to taking on the Dragons.

0:31:130:31:16

I work with children every day of the week.

0:31:190:31:22

So, when I go into the Den,

0:31:230:31:24

I am going to treat the Dragons as if they're children in my classroom.

0:31:240:31:29

And the no-nonsense entrepreneur is hoping to get top marks for what she

0:31:290:31:34

believes is a pioneering concept.

0:31:340:31:37

I have created something so unique and so innovative,

0:31:370:31:41

and I know that my business changes children's lives.

0:31:410:31:45

Hello, Dragons.

0:31:560:31:57

My name is Lee Dein.

0:31:570:31:59

And I'm looking for £60,000 in exchange for 10% of my business.

0:31:590:32:05

There are over 2 million children who struggle with their handwriting.

0:32:050:32:10

The fundamental problem is that many teachers are not taught

0:32:100:32:15

how to teach handwriting,

0:32:150:32:17

and there are too many complicated alphabet curls and letter strokes.

0:32:170:32:23

So, that's why I created the simple Magic Link font

0:32:230:32:27

and Handwriting Programme. And this teaches neat, cursive,

0:32:270:32:31

joined-up handwriting in 30 simple steps,

0:32:310:32:35

and is perfect for primary and secondary schoolchildren.

0:32:350:32:38

Since I started my company, 2½ years ago,

0:32:390:32:43

over 2,000 children have benefited from my programme.

0:32:430:32:47

I have some examples of my Magic Link workbooks,

0:32:470:32:50

which I'm going to hand out.

0:32:500:32:52

Hoping the Dragons will soon be writing their names

0:32:550:32:59

on an investment cheque is language teacher Lee Dein.

0:32:590:33:03

If any of you Dragons would like to write this sentence down

0:33:040:33:08

and copy what's on top, I will give you some Magic Link tips.

0:33:080:33:11

Oh, thank you, Peter.

0:33:110:33:14

She's asking for £60,000 in return for a 10% share of her programme,

0:33:140:33:19

which uses a unique font to improve handwriting.

0:33:190:33:22

Oh, sorry, Peter, could you copy the sentence on top?

0:33:220:33:25

-Oh, OK.

-But if you want to carry that sentence on,

0:33:250:33:27

-that's completely fine.

-He's not very good at doing as he's told.

0:33:270:33:31

Oh, OK. Quite neat writing, I am quite impressed.

0:33:310:33:35

I do think there is a mistake on there, though, Peter.

0:33:350:33:38

-Oh, Deborah?

-Let me just correct it for you.

0:33:380:33:41

That's not exactly a P - that a D, look.

0:33:410:33:45

E, that's OK.

0:33:450:33:47

B-O-R...

0:33:470:33:49

A-H.

0:33:490:33:50

There you go.

0:33:500:33:52

Now that we know who is top of the class,

0:33:540:33:56

Touker Suleyman wants to move from the blackboard to business.

0:33:560:34:01

And he has some personal experience to draw on.

0:34:010:34:03

-Right, Lee.

-Yes.

-I am very fortunate to have two daughters

0:34:050:34:09

whose writing is impeccable. They were taught correctly.

0:34:090:34:13

So, I think, it's a good cause, but is it a good business?

0:34:130:34:17

-How does it work?

-Yeah, so,

0:34:170:34:19

if you are a parent with a child with bad writing,

0:34:190:34:21

you can either choose to go to one of my licensees,

0:34:210:34:25

who will give you lessons, or you could buy it online.

0:34:250:34:28

I have three licensees.

0:34:280:34:30

Last year, I only had one licensee who brought in a revenue of £1,000.

0:34:300:34:35

This year, my licensees brought in a revenue of £6,000.

0:34:350:34:38

So, the licensee model is small.

0:34:380:34:41

Very small, yes. Small, compared to the rest.

0:34:410:34:43

So, I'm assuming that the other part is massive to get a valuation

0:34:430:34:47

of 600,000?

0:34:470:34:49

It will be massive.

0:34:490:34:51

WILL be massive?

0:34:510:34:52

Yeah, because, my online sales last year...

0:34:520:34:56

There were 60 sales, there's half...

0:34:560:34:58

-600,000, sorry?

-No, 60...

0:34:580:35:01

-Oh, 60!

-60. And this year, there have been 200.

0:35:010:35:05

Sounds like this is a niche business for you.

0:35:050:35:09

Oh, it's more than a niche business for me.

0:35:090:35:11

-Can I tell you why?

-Tell me.

-Because, Apple,

0:35:110:35:15

the richest company in the world, have just spent millions of pounds

0:35:150:35:19

investing in their Apple pencil.

0:35:190:35:21

Samsung has just followed suit,

0:35:210:35:24

so they also feel that handwriting

0:35:240:35:26

is a very important skill which they would like to revive.

0:35:260:35:30

Lee bats away Touker Suleyman's worries

0:35:320:35:35

that her business is small-scale,

0:35:350:35:37

by aligning herself with some handwriting-friendly mega brands.

0:35:370:35:42

But, tech giant Peter Jones doesn't appear to be convinced.

0:35:420:35:46

Lee, you are relating your business model to two technology Goliaths,

0:35:470:35:53

who, you are suggesting, are only doing this to improve handwriting.

0:35:530:35:57

I think that's nonsense.

0:35:570:35:59

The stylus pen does a lot of different things.

0:36:000:36:03

It's used for design, it's not just about handwriting.

0:36:030:36:05

I think they are recognising that adults would like to take notes

0:36:050:36:09

by hand on a tablet, which has never been done before.

0:36:090:36:13

Yeah, but I don't get why that relates to your business,

0:36:130:36:16

and I don't see what's even slightly unique about this.

0:36:160:36:19

-But that's the programme. That's the... Your...

-That's...just lines.

0:36:190:36:24

You just write in between the lines.

0:36:240:36:26

I'm trying to work out why you think this is a business.

0:36:260:36:29

I think it's a fantastic business, because last year,

0:36:290:36:31

when I started my company, I had three schools that were interested,

0:36:310:36:34

and this year, I've had 14 schools who are interested.

0:36:340:36:37

No, I can see your skill...

0:36:370:36:39

So, why is that not a good business,

0:36:390:36:41

if children can achieve neat writing?

0:36:410:36:44

You've had 2,000 children over 2½ years go through your programme.

0:36:450:36:49

-How much income has that generated?

-£146,000.

0:36:490:36:53

OK.

0:36:530:36:55

And how much net profit?

0:36:550:36:57

Erm, £104,000.

0:36:570:36:59

-Over two years.

-Yeah.

0:36:590:37:01

It's 50,000 a year.

0:37:010:37:02

And the people that you've employed via your licensing,

0:37:020:37:05

they've done it for free?

0:37:050:37:06

They pay me £100 royalty per child, and I send them the pack...

0:37:060:37:11

And they charge per child...?

0:37:110:37:12

They are self-employed, and they charge £40 a session.

0:37:120:37:16

OK, then I slightly take it back.

0:37:160:37:19

I think I could have been wrong in saying

0:37:190:37:21

that you haven't got a business for yourself at the moment.

0:37:210:37:25

Oh, thank you.

0:37:250:37:27

A rare event,

0:37:280:37:29

as the entrepreneur's spirited defence of her business

0:37:290:37:33

elicits a reappraisal from Peter Jones.

0:37:330:37:37

But Tej Lalvani is wondering whether the teacher's work could be cribbed.

0:37:370:37:41

Lee, well, you definitely have me as a customer for your book,

0:37:430:37:47

cos I need to improve my handwriting.

0:37:470:37:49

But, this book that you've got here,

0:37:490:37:51

what's stopping a big educational book company from copying

0:37:510:37:55

-the same thing?

-Because, there is a patent on the font,

0:37:550:38:00

both here and in the US.

0:38:000:38:02

Right, so, if you had a different font, you could bypass the patent.

0:38:020:38:06

But the programme wouldn't work, because the font is so clear

0:38:060:38:10

that children understand how to write letters

0:38:100:38:13

in a very clear format.

0:38:130:38:15

Lee, sorry, can I just pick up on that?

0:38:150:38:18

I am amazed you can get a patent on a font.

0:38:180:38:21

Well, I did.

0:38:210:38:22

A patent?!

0:38:230:38:25

Yeah, with the patent office, I've got my patent.

0:38:250:38:28

-A patent?!

-Yeah.

0:38:280:38:30

-You've got it here?

-I can show you.

0:38:320:38:34

Er...

0:38:340:38:36

I might need some help finding this.

0:38:360:38:39

OK, oh, can I show you... Oh, here we go.

0:38:390:38:42

Yeah, this is the UK.

0:38:420:38:44

Oh, no, hang on, er...

0:38:440:38:46

Yeah, I think this is it. Is that right?

0:38:460:38:49

No. That's a registration design - that is what I think you've got.

0:38:490:38:52

Here we go. Oh, yeah, but look it's the design on the font,

0:38:550:38:58

-so there's the font that's been approved...

-No, hold on a minute.

0:38:580:39:01

-Patent, look, the word "patent".

-Well, no.

0:39:010:39:03

-And there's the America one. Magic Link...

-Lee, listen, focus.

0:39:030:39:06

You have got a registered design.

0:39:070:39:09

It is very, very different to a patent. Do you understand that?

0:39:090:39:14

Erm...

0:39:140:39:15

The difference between the two is patent is much stronger.

0:39:150:39:18

Lee, you've done a very nice thing here,

0:39:210:39:23

you are doing something that's really important.

0:39:230:39:26

But, I'm looking for investments.

0:39:260:39:28

-So, I won't be investing. I'm out.

-OK.

0:39:280:39:31

The teacher gets a ticking off, as her lack of a proper patent

0:39:330:39:37

sees Deborah Meaden make an early exit from the negotiation.

0:39:370:39:41

Now Touker Suleyman wants to steer the discussion to Lee's projections.

0:39:420:39:47

Let's look at your business.

0:39:510:39:53

-The run rate.

-OK.

0:39:530:39:55

So, this financial year, which has just finished,

0:39:550:39:57

I've turned over £77,000,

0:39:570:40:00

with a £74,000 gross profit

0:40:000:40:04

and a £64,000 net profit.

0:40:040:40:07

What do you predict next year?

0:40:070:40:10

So I'm predicting it would, with your help,

0:40:100:40:12

-it would double to 150,000.

-With my help? What, with a magic wand?

0:40:120:40:16

Well, I think if you were to tell your fellow businesspeople,

0:40:160:40:20

who are in education, about my product,

0:40:200:40:22

and you spread the word for me, I'd get a lot more sales.

0:40:220:40:25

But you could do that yourself, on Facebook.

0:40:250:40:28

Oh, but it's great to have you behind me!

0:40:280:40:30

CHUCKLING

0:40:300:40:33

You're making money. You've got to use some of that money to employ

0:40:340:40:38

somebody to be your sales person.

0:40:380:40:40

You don't have to give up the equity. Keep it all to yourself.

0:40:400:40:44

I'm really sorry, I've not got the time that I could dedicate to you

0:40:450:40:49

for what you want.

0:40:490:40:50

And I'm out.

0:40:510:40:53

Touker Suleyman drops out of proceedings,

0:40:540:40:56

becoming the second Dragon to decline the deal.

0:40:560:41:00

Does Jenny Campbell think the handwriting business has legs?

0:41:000:41:05

Lee, I think what you are doing is really, really laudable.

0:41:050:41:08

I love neat handwriting, but I've got two boys and, you know,

0:41:080:41:12

to help them hand-write better, I'd go to a high street stationer's

0:41:120:41:15

and buy a book that looked similar to this,

0:41:150:41:17

and it's probably got tracing paper in or something,

0:41:170:41:19

and you are copying it.

0:41:190:41:21

So I think there are lots of other ways to do it.

0:41:210:41:24

-But they don't...

-But they're not as good as yours.

0:41:240:41:26

They don't work. That's why there are so many children

0:41:260:41:28

-with bad handwriting, that's the evidence.

-Yes.

0:41:280:41:32

But I don't get that it's a business at all, and I think the Magic Link -

0:41:320:41:36

that sounds like a board game or something.

0:41:360:41:38

Well, it's actually the link in the font that causes the magic,

0:41:380:41:41

-so there's a reason.

-I know, but I don't know what that means.

0:41:410:41:43

I don't think it's a Dragon investment.

0:41:450:41:47

But good luck. Thank you, I'm out.

0:41:490:41:51

Lee, I think, if a leading educational book publisher wanted

0:41:530:41:57

to do it, they could bypass the font

0:41:570:41:59

and create something with similar content.

0:41:590:42:01

I think it can be copied, so the business potential is a risk.

0:42:030:42:07

And for that reason, I'm out.

0:42:090:42:10

Tej Lalvani decides to write off the opportunity

0:42:120:42:16

to invest in the business.

0:42:160:42:18

Now only Peter Jones remains.

0:42:180:42:20

Having already had a change of opinion about the company,

0:42:200:42:24

could he be about to come full circle and make an offer?

0:42:240:42:28

Lee, I'm not completely convinced you have a business here

0:42:300:42:34

and I think you've got something for yourself...

0:42:340:42:37

Is this not a business because it is scalable and it's sellable

0:42:370:42:40

and there's interest and there's a problem?

0:42:400:42:42

I'm not convinced it is scalable.

0:42:420:42:44

I think you should carry on doing what you are doing, this is great,

0:42:450:42:49

but I'm not going to invest because I don't see it

0:42:490:42:51

as a big business opportunity, or even a medium-sized one,

0:42:510:42:54

so I'm going to say that I'm out.

0:42:540:42:56

Thank you very much.

0:42:570:42:58

Lee is out of investment options,

0:42:590:43:02

and she leaves the Den without the £60,000 she was asking for.

0:43:020:43:08

At the beginning, Peter Jones said I didn't have a business,

0:43:080:43:12

and then he did agree that I DID have a business,

0:43:120:43:15

and then he didn't want to invest in me.

0:43:150:43:17

It's his loss. I will show him that Magic Link will go worldwide,

0:43:170:43:20

and he's going to regret it.

0:43:200:43:22

I think that's a good idea, hiring a salesperson.

0:43:220:43:25

-Yeah.

-It was either that or me get a day job with her.

0:43:250:43:27

Yeah. I'll tell you what, she got out of that one!

0:43:270:43:30

Over the years, there have been some rather interesting approaches in

0:43:370:43:41

making an entrance into the Den...

0:43:410:43:42

Goal!

0:43:420:43:44

Arggh!

0:43:440:43:46

..from sending in the heavies...

0:43:480:43:50

..to laying on the glitz and glamour.

0:43:520:43:54

There have been some entertaining introductions...

0:43:570:44:00

-This is Pepper.

-..and innovative ways to catch a Dragon's eye.

0:44:000:44:04

Did that just happen?!

0:44:090:44:10

And last up tonight is a thrill-seeker from Bristol

0:44:120:44:15

who's determined to rev things up a bit.

0:44:150:44:17

Motorsport's very much been a part of my life.

0:44:220:44:25

I mean, there's nothing better than the feeling of speed.

0:44:250:44:27

But will the Dragons want to kick-start his company or be saying,

0:44:270:44:32

"On your bike"?

0:44:320:44:33

It's great to be able to do something that I love

0:44:340:44:36

as a day-to-day job and design a business around it.

0:44:360:44:38

Hello, Dragons. Did you know there are over 200 million motorcycles

0:44:440:44:48

in the world? Of those 200 million,

0:44:480:44:50

over 90% are either chain driven or belt driven.

0:44:500:44:52

Adjusting and chaining a motorcycle is a very time-consuming,

0:44:530:44:56

tedious and frustrating task. It has to be conducted every 200-300 miles.

0:44:560:45:00

It currently requires the rider to get on their hands and knees,

0:45:000:45:03

put a tape measure up against the machine, pressing up and down

0:45:030:45:06

on the chain to try and determine the chain tension.

0:45:060:45:08

My name is Chris Frappell, and I found the solution.

0:45:080:45:11

I am here to present my product Chain Monkey,

0:45:110:45:13

the patented motorcycle chain tensioning tool.

0:45:130:45:16

I'm looking for £75,000 investment for 10% equity in my company.

0:45:160:45:20

The Chain Monkey is applied to the chain, and adjusted upwards

0:45:210:45:25

until the circular stop touches the orange base.

0:45:250:45:28

This induces an arc into the chain,

0:45:280:45:29

which is effectively a predetermined tension, based on the specification

0:45:290:45:32

of the motorcycle. So if there's any slack left in the chain,

0:45:320:45:35

as there is now, you can then adjust the wheel backwards until the slack

0:45:350:45:38

has just been removed. From there, they can remove the Chain Monkey...

0:45:380:45:41

..and they are left with the precise chain tension,

0:45:430:45:45

set first time, every time.

0:45:450:45:47

In the first year, I turned over £169,000.

0:45:470:45:50

Since then, I've extended the range to include lubricants,

0:45:500:45:53

cleaning products, and also a range of other complementary tools

0:45:530:45:57

to the Chain Monkey.

0:45:570:45:58

I thank you for your time and I look forward to any questions.

0:45:580:46:01

And I'm going to hand out some samples.

0:46:010:46:03

Hoping to gain a Dragon pillion passenger

0:46:030:46:06

for his motorcycle chain-tightening business

0:46:060:46:09

is motorsport engineer Chris Frappell.

0:46:090:46:11

That's a lot of walking you're doing there, thank you very much.

0:46:110:46:14

He's willing to hand over 10% of his company in return

0:46:150:46:19

for a £75,000 investment.

0:46:190:46:21

Thanks.

0:46:210:46:23

Deborah Meaden is first to gear up with some questions.

0:46:240:46:28

Chris, I'm not a motorcyclist,

0:46:300:46:32

so I'm going to have to ask you some pretty basic questions.

0:46:320:46:36

I understand the whole tension thing,

0:46:360:46:38

so what's the nearest product to this?

0:46:380:46:41

You know, what else is out there?

0:46:410:46:42

There's been absolutely nothing out there, in all honesty.

0:46:420:46:45

There is nothing that fills this niche in the market at all.

0:46:450:46:48

It's perfect for the everyday rider, the mechanic,

0:46:480:46:50

someone who has a professional career

0:46:500:46:52

and all the way down to someone who is new to motorcycles.

0:46:520:46:54

And is this a patented product?

0:46:560:46:58

It is, yes. I have a granted UK patent.

0:46:580:47:01

I also have a separate European patent pending,

0:47:010:47:04

and then I also have an international patent pending

0:47:040:47:07

for the USA, China, India and Japan as well.

0:47:070:47:09

An entrepreneur with a patent in hand

0:47:120:47:15

is always a welcome visitor to the Den.

0:47:150:47:18

But Tej Lalvani is wondering

0:47:180:47:20

if Chris's biking gizmo is even needed in the first place.

0:47:200:47:24

Chris, most people who own a motorcycle,

0:47:280:47:31

if they've got a loose chain, don't they just go to the...

0:47:310:47:34

..get it serviced and fixed?

0:47:340:47:36

Some do. Erm, whereas, the majority of the market actually prefer

0:47:360:47:39

to carry on any maintenance, themselves.

0:47:390:47:41

Erm, if they do go to have it serviced

0:47:410:47:43

and have the chain adjusted, it costs at least £30 a time.

0:47:430:47:46

And, on average, a rider will get their chain adjusted at least four or five times a year.

0:47:460:47:49

-Which takes about, what? Half an hour, an hour?

-Before, yes, it would have taken a long time.

0:47:490:47:53

But, now with the Chain Monkey, no,

0:47:530:47:54

it's literally a 10-15-minute job, maximum.

0:47:540:47:56

And how much does it retail for?

0:47:560:47:58

It's £24.99.

0:47:580:48:01

Chris. I might be the only qualified motorcyclist in the line-up, here.

0:48:010:48:05

So, my last cycle was a Suzuki 650, bright yellow.

0:48:050:48:09

-Oh, really?

-So,

0:48:090:48:10

I know that bikers don't take their bikes to the garage to get it fixed,

0:48:100:48:14

they get on their hands and knees and fix it themselves,

0:48:140:48:16

so I know that. So, tell me about the manufacture of these.

0:48:160:48:19

Where do you get supply from? Your manufacturer?

0:48:190:48:21

They are assembled in the UK, currently.

0:48:210:48:23

Erm, however, the orange part is sourced from China.

0:48:230:48:25

A Chinese injection moulding company there.

0:48:250:48:29

OK, so it starts... Some bits start in China, come into the UK,

0:48:290:48:32

and then it's finished off and packaged up and so on.

0:48:320:48:35

Yes, yes. My mother has actually been helping me assemble these

0:48:350:48:38

up until now, and has done extremely well at it, to be honest.

0:48:380:48:43

However, I am now looking to move now to a company

0:48:430:48:45

who will assemble the whole lot for 46p.

0:48:450:48:47

A move to factory production for his product

0:48:490:48:52

will no doubt be welcome news for Mrs Frappell Snr.

0:48:520:48:56

Peter Jones now wants to find out if Chris' motorcycle gadget has given

0:48:560:49:01

rise to a high-performance company.

0:49:010:49:03

How long has this been going -

0:49:060:49:07

-the business?

-Erm, I launched the business in August of 2015.

0:49:070:49:11

So, we have done just over a year and a half, now.

0:49:130:49:16

OK, and the last year's turnover was £169,000?

0:49:160:49:19

-It was, yes.

-And what is the forecast for this year,

0:49:190:49:22

-currently?

-The forecast is roughly the same for this year.

0:49:220:49:25

But, the expansion for next year, with investment,

0:49:250:49:27

is looking to be at 640,000 turnover.

0:49:270:49:29

We are looking for, then, a gross of 480, and a net of 220.

0:49:310:49:35

I've also got a meeting with Halfords,

0:49:350:49:38

to get into 400 shops in one go.

0:49:380:49:39

-And where are you with that?

-Erm, it's the second pitch to them,

0:49:390:49:42

actually, in two days' time. They are now interested in the whole

0:49:420:49:45

range of lubricants, cleaning products, and all the other tools.

0:49:450:49:48

We are also looking to extend the brand into the USA,

0:49:480:49:50

and get into a much larger market.

0:49:500:49:52

Chris. You want to go to the States?

0:49:540:49:57

-Yes.

-However, you haven't really conquered the UK?

0:49:570:50:01

We were actually approached by the

0:50:010:50:02

second-largest distributor in the USA.

0:50:020:50:05

-Right.

-So, they came to us and said,

0:50:050:50:06

"We'd be very interested in putting your product into stores, here."

0:50:060:50:10

So, I didn't want to turn down the opportunity of being able to put it

0:50:100:50:13

into the USA when we had it put forward to us.

0:50:130:50:16

-When did they approach you?

-That was about six months ago, now.

0:50:160:50:19

I mean, I would've thought that within six months,

0:50:190:50:21

-you would have sent them samples...

-They do have samples, yes.

0:50:210:50:24

Thing is, six months is quite a long time. I'm just a bit concerned

0:50:240:50:28

that you haven't had a real bite within six months.

0:50:280:50:31

The UK market,

0:50:310:50:32

you're there, but not in what I'd call a roll-out basis.

0:50:320:50:36

You've not proven to me that it's a product that's going to grow.

0:50:360:50:42

The entrepreneur's apparent failure to really set the market alight with

0:50:440:50:48

his product is a concern for Touker Suleyman.

0:50:480:50:52

Has Chris' motorcycle business got enough gas in the tank to encourage

0:50:520:50:56

Peter Jones to make an offer?

0:50:560:50:59

Chris, I have to say, I think the product seems pretty neat,

0:51:010:51:05

and you've clearly done a really good job and it definitely does

0:51:050:51:07

what it says on the tin. But, as an investor,

0:51:070:51:09

you've got to have a feeling where you've got a really

0:51:090:51:12

invested interest in motorsport,

0:51:120:51:14

or you see a really big business opportunity that can take off.

0:51:140:51:19

I'm struggling with both.

0:51:190:51:20

So, I'm seeing the opportunity quite as a small, very niche product.

0:51:230:51:26

I don't think you're going to make a lot of money from it.

0:51:280:51:32

So, I'm going to say that I'm out.

0:51:360:51:39

Chris, I'm also concerned about the size of the market.

0:51:440:51:49

And I'm not sure how much value I could add for you.

0:51:500:51:53

So, unfortunately, I won't be investing,

0:51:550:51:58

but I wish you all the best.

0:51:580:52:00

-I'm out.

-Thank you very much.

0:52:000:52:02

Two Dragons depart in quick succession.

0:52:050:52:08

Will resident petrol head Jenny Campbell

0:52:080:52:11

break this adverse chain of events?

0:52:110:52:14

Chris, I do know the motorcycling scene,

0:52:150:52:17

and I do resonate with this market.

0:52:170:52:19

So, I can see that this business will do well.

0:52:210:52:24

You're great, you can tell how competent you are.

0:52:250:52:29

So, I buy you, as well.

0:52:290:52:31

I am going to make you an offer.

0:52:360:52:38

My offer to you would be all of the money

0:52:400:52:44

for 20% of the business.

0:52:440:52:46

Jenny Campbell offers to link up with the chain-tightening business,

0:52:480:52:53

and tables a bid.

0:52:530:52:54

But, environmentalist Deborah Meaden

0:52:550:52:58

appears to have spotted something in the entrepreneur's cleaning products

0:52:580:53:02

that threatens to stall her interest.

0:53:020:53:05

The thing I found mildly alarming...

0:53:050:53:08

It's aerosol, and it's quite chemical.

0:53:080:53:12

You look at this list here, and think, "Euuugh"...

0:53:130:53:17

Yes, now, one thing we are looking to do is obviously reduce that.

0:53:170:53:20

We are also looking to having potentially a squeezy can

0:53:200:53:23

and reduce the aerosol completely.

0:53:230:53:25

I would love to be the people who worked on getting it

0:53:250:53:28

-more environmentally friendly.

-Yeah, yeah.

0:53:280:53:31

So, I'm going to offer you all of the money.

0:53:360:53:39

I want 25% of the business.

0:53:390:53:41

OK, thank you for your... thank you for your offer.

0:53:430:53:46

With her environmental concerns satisfied,

0:53:460:53:50

Deborah Meaden makes a play for the company.

0:53:500:53:52

Will Touker Suleyman join the Dragon chain gang?

0:53:530:53:56

Chris, could that be used for bicycles?

0:53:590:54:04

It can be, yes.

0:54:040:54:06

The cycle business, I believe, today,

0:54:060:54:09

is probably the biggest sport in the world.

0:54:090:54:11

And, I am involved in the bicycle world through Bikesoup.

0:54:110:54:17

It could well be that we can convince the brands to sell

0:54:170:54:20

one of these along with their bicycles.

0:54:200:54:22

I'm going to make you an offer.

0:54:270:54:29

But, my offer, really, is based upon that I can open more doors for you

0:54:290:54:32

in the cycle world.

0:54:320:54:34

I'll give you all the money, but

0:54:370:54:40

I want 30%.

0:54:400:54:41

Touker Suleyman spots a possible tie-in

0:54:440:54:46

with one of his other businesses and ups the ante in the Den.

0:54:460:54:50

-Do you mind if I take two minutes to have a...

-And talk to the wall.

0:54:500:54:53

With three offers in for the chain-tightening tool,

0:54:550:54:58

it's the Dragons who are feeling the tension.

0:54:580:55:00

Jenny Campbell is hoping her passion for bikes will lead to her 20% offer

0:55:010:55:06

being accepted. Deborah Meaden wants more equity at 25%...

0:55:060:55:11

..and Touker Suleyman believes his connection with the bike world

0:55:120:55:16

will justify his more audacious 30% demand.

0:55:160:55:20

Deborah, would there be any movement on your offer of 25%?

0:55:220:55:26

Honestly, Chris, erm...

0:55:310:55:33

Probably not.

0:55:360:55:38

I think I would honestly add that value,

0:55:390:55:42

-so, I'm sorry, Chris, but probably not.

-No, that's fair enough.

0:55:420:55:45

Touker, I really do appreciate your offer and I think

0:55:470:55:50

it would be a very good in to the bicycle industry, as well.

0:55:500:55:53

Now, I wondered if there would be any movement from your side at all

0:55:530:55:56

-on that perspective?

-This is not a barter game.

0:55:560:55:58

-OK.

-I think it's time for you to decide, you know, erm...

0:55:580:56:02

Cos you are going from Deborah to me, and I think the question is,

0:56:020:56:06

is there one Dragon which you really want that can add value,

0:56:060:56:09

or is it just playing games between us?

0:56:090:56:12

I think you've got to decide, Chris, what you really want.

0:56:120:56:14

Well, to be fair, he's got three.

0:56:140:56:16

He's got a 10% spread, I think it's...

0:56:160:56:18

-Ask what questions you need to, Chris.

-OK.

0:56:180:56:21

I think, at this moment in time where the business is,

0:56:230:56:26

I don't think I can go to 30% on it.

0:56:260:56:28

Erm... I think, in all honesty, 25% is my absolute limit.

0:56:280:56:32

And, I have to stick to my guns on that respect.

0:56:320:56:35

But, based on that, and based on what each of you can offer...

0:56:350:56:38

Are you... Are you asking me whether I would reduce my offer to 25%?

0:56:390:56:42

He asked you that already, and you said no, Touker.

0:56:420:56:45

That is the question, yeah.

0:56:450:56:47

I would reduce to 25%.

0:56:510:56:53

Touker, I think we've got a deal. I think that would be great.

0:56:580:57:00

-Thank you.

-Great.

0:57:000:57:02

-Wow.

-Thank you very much.

-Well done.

-Thank you very much for your time.

0:57:020:57:06

A last-minute climb-down from Touker Suleyman gets him the deal.

0:57:060:57:11

I'm sure we'll conquer this market and the cycle market.

0:57:110:57:14

-That's great. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.

-Great.

0:57:140:57:17

And, the entrepreneur leaves the Den with the £75,000 he was seeking,

0:57:170:57:21

but without his transportation.

0:57:210:57:23

You do know you've left your bike, here, don't you?!

0:57:230:57:26

Oh, I'll get it later. You can have a go, if you want, Peter.

0:57:260:57:29

When Touker decided to reduce his offer,

0:57:290:57:31

I felt it was a bit of a no-brainer, really.

0:57:310:57:34

Are you feeling that it was stolen from you?

0:57:340:57:36

-Yeah.

-Sorry, Deborah.

-No, that...

0:57:360:57:40

-We win some, we lose some, Touker.

-Exactly. I've said the same myself.

0:57:400:57:43

I think I could see you in leathers, as well, Touker.

0:57:430:57:45

I don't think I'm going to be in leathers, no.

0:57:450:57:48

Business is often about compromise.

0:57:530:57:56

Earlier, we saw Rimi stick to her guns but fail to get an investment,

0:57:560:58:00

while Chris did negotiate and secured a deal.

0:58:000:58:04

Touker Suleyman, too, had to shift his position,

0:58:040:58:07

proving that even Dragons have to have a bit of give and take

0:58:070:58:11

to get what they want.

0:58:110:58:12

I looked at you all, and I thought, you all look perfectly sane.

0:58:130:58:16

-Coming up next time...

-You can't do that, guys.

0:58:160:58:19

You are in here for investment. You are not here for advice.

0:58:190:58:22

I am not going to help you propel a product that's not proven.

0:58:220:58:25

It's a small business.

0:58:250:58:27

-Tiny.

-Really?

0:58:270:58:28

You've made a mistake.

0:58:300:58:32

When were you going to raise the extra money to build all this?

0:58:320:58:34

I've no idea. Don't know.

0:58:340:58:36

Before you make a decision,

0:58:380:58:40

I'm thinking of revising my offer.

0:58:400:58:42

-I really like it.

-You are very bubbly and engaging.

0:58:420:58:45

You are a very investable entrepreneur.

0:58:450:58:48

-1%.

-Yes.

-1%.

0:58:480:58:50

Yes, 1%.

0:58:500:58:52

I don't get out of bed for 1%.

0:58:520:58:54

The Den doors are open as multimillionaire investors Deborah Meaden, Peter Jones, Touker Suleyman, Tej Lalvani and Jenny Campbell take their seats and are primed to invest in a new batch of entrepreneurs.

In this episode, a baby-faced entrepreneur takes Peter Jones by surprise with his business which offers advertising space on the move, but will the surprise lead to an investment? Next up, a teacher from London enters the Den with her unique handwriting method which she claims can teach any child to write neater. And finally a bike enthusiast is looking for investment in his chain-tensioning products for motorcycles. Will it be a successful ride to a deal when it turns out there is a secret motorbike enthusiast amongst the Dragons?