Episode 9 Dragons' Den

These are the Dragons.

Five of Britain's wealthiest and most-enterprising business leaders.

They're about to make or break the dreams

of dozens of budding entrepreneurs.

You are trying to climb Mount Everest in your flip-flops.

As far as I'm concerned,

there's absolutely no way I would get involved.

Your net asset value is minus. So you are worthless.

I'm angry at this lot. They're totally, absolutely wrong.

Without listening to what the other Dragons have got to say,

I'd like to make you an offer.

The multi-millionaire investors

have each built up their fortunes from scratch.

Hotel and health club owner, Duncan Bannatyne.

Leisure industry expert, Deborah Meaden.

Retail magnate, Theo Paphitis.

Telecoms giant Peter Jones.

And Hilary Devey, who made her millions in the haulage industry.

The Dragons have the credentials, the contacts, the commitment

and the cash ready to invest.

But only in the right business.

Will any of these hopeful entrepreneurs

walk away with their money?

Welcome to the Dragon's Den.

Anxious entrepreneurs are ready and waiting

to face our multi-millionaire investors

in what could be one of the toughest meetings of their lives.

The Dragons are committed to investing their own cash

in the best ideas that come before them,

but getting that money is a difficult challenge.

But if business was easy, we'd all be millionaires.

First, Michelle Savage from Bury

brings a touch of glamour into the Den.

Can she convince the Dragons to stump up the cash

to help grow her business?

Hi, my name's Michelle Savage.

I'm here today to introduce to you my invention called Savvylash.

I'm pitching for £50,000 investment for 20% in the company.

In truth, mascara is difficult to apply on yourself or others.

Eyelashes sticking together are inevitable,

and sometimes they go a little bit clumpy.

For many years, I applied mascara,

then used a pin to separate my eyelashes to achieve lash perfection.

Savvylash is a cosmetic tool that's been designed to safely

and hygienically separate individual eyelashes after applying any mascara.

SHE COUGHS

Currently, UK market sales are worth £332 million. It is huge business.

I've managed to get Savvylash to some key people in the beauty industry,

celebrity make-up artist Jemma Kidd is also happy

to be associated with Savvylash.

She's mentioned it in her Beauty Bible book

as an essential tool kit to have for make-up artists.

And the global cosmetic company MAC have also trialled Savvylash for me.

It's patented, it's been featured in Grazia, Now!, New, Look magazine.

I've brought Alicia, my daughter, to show you and give you an example.

If I was a make-up artist - I'll just go round this side -

I would use the tool - if you'll just close our eyes for me, please.

And I would just gently just go down the lashes

to individually separate them.

It's that easy.

Would anyone like to come up and have a look at Alisha's eyelashes?

Yes, I would.

An upbeat and self-assured pitch

from trained make-up artist Michelle Savage.

In return for a 20% stake...

Simple. But effective.

She needs a £50,000 investment to help launch

her eyelash-defining cosmetic tool onto the mass market.

-That's the packaging. Thank you.

-Thank you.

Deborah Meaden looks intrigued.

Hi, Michelle, I'm Deborah. I understand the issue.

I mean, when you talk about the things you've achieved,

the people you spoken to, it sounds like, "Wow!".

So, how long have you had this in production?

I started in 2007 and I had a short run of 2,000 units done.

-And how many of those have you sold?

-I have sold 1,795.

How does that break down over the years?

Well, Year One, I did sales of 3,500.

-Pounds?

-Yeah, yeah.

It retails at £4.99. And the year after I got sales of nearly £8,000.

The third year, because I didn't have any time to spend on it,

the sales dropped a little bit to just under £1,000.

OK.

We've got a dichotomy here, because you talked about, at the beginning,

getting lots of PR and people said fantastic things about your product.

For me, night should then follow day, you should get traction,

there should be more business coming your way.

What is a bit alarming is that you had a little bit of activity

and then a bit more activity, but really not a huge amount,

and then it drops off a cliff.

I believe in my product, Deborah, and there is a need...

I'm not asking if you believe in it. I guarantee you,

every person who comes in believes in their product.

-Everybody. This is not a unique selling point.

-Yeah.

A frank opening exchange,

and the passionate entrepreneur's initial confidence is dented.

Will Hilary Devey help get Michelle's pitch back on track?

-Right, Michelle, I like the product.

-Thank you.

-Tell me about you.

-Right.

-What's your background?

I work full-time for Greater Manchester Police.

Is this why you haven't focused on this?

I've worked for the police the 23 years

and the wake-up call I had was, "Your job's under review

"with possible redundancy", and what I found myself doing was thinking,

where has 23 years gone of working for the police?

What I don't want is the next 23 years thinking

what I have would have, should have, could have done with my product.

What about the other products available on the market?

-There are combs you can get.

-I've brought a comb.

The thing with a comb is, you can't individually separate your lashes.

There is no manoeuvre there, so usually,

when you put your mascara on, and you comb through,

it does take a residue of your mascara off,

and sometimes it can cause problems.

But if I may go back to the mascara side of it,

if mascara companies

are inserting false eyelashes in their sales,

mascara isn't delivering.

They promised us, the consumer, buy this mascara -

you'll have longer, thicker luscious lashes, and it doesn't work.

In fact, the advertising agency did get involved.

-You're absolutely right, Michelle.

-You're misleading customers.

We're talking here about a business opportunity.

It is a business opportunity. They sold a million.

Just so you know where I am,

There's people here who know more about make-up than I will ever know.

And I will leave it to those people, but I personally think

this is not an idea that's ever going to make to any money,

because the big operators can make

their own combs and adjust them, so there's no money in this for you,

so for that reason, I'm out.

Mixed emotions for Michelle

as two rival Dragons disagree about her product's viability.

Will retail expert Theo Paphitis think it worthy

of a £50,000 investment?

Why, when I walk into Boots, I don't see this hanging off the peg?

I started off with the tool for the consumer to use individually.

The feedback I've had brought in other functions of the tool.

I haven't got the money to redevelop the leaflet

with all the additional functions.

Why not just sell it for what it does, that you developed it for?

I thought it would be more beneficial for the additional functions...

Isn't that the second stage? Once you've got money in by selling this,

then you can do that, one step at a time?

Or do you believe it's not going to sell?

-No, I believe it's going to sell.

-So why didn't you sell it?

That's a good question, actually, but I genuinely thought

I would have more appeal if I went to them with additional functions.

Michelle, it's not a good question. It's obvious.

Why is this not in the shop doing what you designed it for,

that there's a big demand for it.

You told us that everybody loves it and everybody needs it,

so it should be sold for what it does.

If you it do other things, that's later.

Theo, all I can say is I genuinely thought

I would stand a better chance if I repackaged it.

-Did you try?

-I didn't try, no, because...

Oh don't look disappointed in me, Theo.

Don't look disappointed in me. I made a mistake.

A couple of phone calls...

..and you would have been told that either

"This is the best thing since sliced bread

"but it needs this doing to it to make sure it works,"

or, "Michelle, don't give up your day job."

That's all you had to do. And you would have known.

And because I don't know the answer to that question,

I can't possibly make a decision.

So I'm going to say, I'm out.

A second blow,

but the likeable entrepreneur still has three dragons left.

Will Peter Jones agree with his rival's concerns?

I think that you could have a really neat product here.

I think it's really inventive.

It's clearly different.

-You're there with something, and you've got a patent.

-Yeah.

But I'm not totally convinced that it would sell.

-Well...

-But!

You might convince your mascara manufacturer

to actually buy your product.

So it doesn't mean that you don't get a sale.

It just means that you could sell it to the manufacturer,

who ultimately would give this away free.

And I think that might be a way for exploration for you.

-But I'm not going to invest, and I say I'm out.

-Thank you.

Michelle, can I go back to the manufacturers and why

they behave in the way they do,

because what do they always bring out as the latest reason

to gain market share, or to get you to buy new product?

Are we talking about mascara in particular?

-They are promising us longer, thicker luscious lashes.

-Through what?

-Buying their mascara.

-No, through their wand.

It's always the wand shape.

It's always the shape that does this, or it's longer, fatter,

so what they're doing, they're not oblivious to the issue.

What they're doing is making sure that they're trying

to solve the issue through product.

Because that way, they sell an entire new mascara.

And they're not silly,

that will be part of their entire campaign, because this is good...

but it's not rocket science.

Whilst it's great that you've done this, and you've obviously taken

a problem and tried to come up with a solution, I won't be investing.

-And I'm out.

-Thank you, Deborah.

A detailed lesson in business from Deborah Meaden, but no cash.

Michelle's investment dreams now rest solely with Hilary Devey.

Michelle.

This could be one of the best-selling make-up products

that has ever been launched.

-I love you, Hilary!

-But not in its current form. But, there's a but...

..not in its current form.

How else could you convince me?

Oh, Hilary, all I can say is, if I were fortunate to work with a Dragon,

I would give it 100%, I really believe in my product.

It has been sat idle while I've been doing other things

and I haven't had the time to spend on it.

You know what PR is like, there's big companies out there

who invest massively in PR and advertising.

Or is it because you're not a salesperson

-or marketeer.

-I'm neither.

I wouldn't class myself as a salesperson at all.

You don't get very far in business without some sort of...

I'd like to say I could be a quick learner.

I can't, at this moment, see it as investable.

Because, I think you need a lot, lot more money than 50K.

I think that doesn't even scratch the surface of what you need.

So, for that reason, I've got to say sadly, that I'm out.

Thank you very much for your time.

A disappointing end for Michelle.

Much praised for her product, but head rules heart in the Den,

and she leaves with nothing.

That was the most nerve-wracking thing I've ever done in my life.

You are disappointed, because it's not like a quiz game

where you don't win the money and you say "I've had a lovely day".

You're coming here for investment, but it's not the end of the product.

Now the Dragons aren't immune to the desire that many of us have

to try and maintain a youthful complexion.

So, Shropshire-based John Richardson must have hoped

for a positive outcome when he asked for £75,000

to market his all-natural anti-ageing product.

The product itself provides a solution for ladies

that would like Botox but don't really want

to go through having their face injected or plastic surgery.

Peter Jones needed only one thing to convince him.

Do you use the product yourself?

-Yes.

-OK. If you tell me that you're 65, I'm in.

63. Only joking. No, I'm 37.

OK, you look older than that.

Hilary Devey had an issue with his pitch.

So you've brought the best-possible illustration

of what this wonder cream will do?

-Most people...

-But it's not gone, has it?

But it's massively diminished, because you've put in more elasticity

back into the skin naturally through plant extracts.

But it was Deborah Meaden's issue with John's knowledge

of the product that ended his time in the Den.

So how deep does this go into your epidermis?

Right into the epidermis.

No, not "right into".

You should know how deep this can go into people's skin.

It goes right into...

No, no, what does "right in" mean?

What? Into my heart? Does it go right into the inside of me?

What does it do?

The electro pulse waves go right to the nerve endings of the skin.

Yeah, but the nerve endings are right there.

Yeah? So how deep does it go?

The scientific research says it is a little bit better, well, actually

I can buy most creams and they'll make my skin a little bit better.

As far as I'm concerned there's absolutely no way

I would get involved, so I'm out.

We often think of the Den as a place where new businesses are built,

but sometimes even established ones want the value of a Dragon investor.

Julian Lipton from Watford is here to pitch his family's company,

which is over 20 years old.

But now, under the ownership of a new generation, big plans are afoot.

What will the multi-millionaires think of his ambitions?

Hello, Dragons, my name is Julian Lipton.

I'm the managing director of "The Nuttery".

I'm here asking for a £100,000 investment

in return for a 15% stake in my company.

The Nuttery manufacture bird feeders.

The company was started by my father

and the concept is really simple, it's a cage within the cage.

The small birds fly through the holes on the outside to go inside,

and the squirrels can't get through because of the outer bars.

And that's how The Nuttery was born.

We supply around 300 accounts in the UK.

Pet shops, garden centres, wholesale, mail order

and we also export some product to Europe and the USA as well.

In the UK, three out of four households feed the birds,

and the industry is estimated to be worth around £200 million per year.

Thank you very much for listening.

I have some samples for you to have a look at.

And, any questions?

An efficient pitch from experienced family businessmen Julian Lipton.

He needs a £100,000 cash injection to fund a new phase of growth

for his innovative bird-feeding business,

and he's willing to part with 15%.

Duncan Ballantyne wants to scrutinise the make-up of the company.

Thank you, Julian. You said this company was started by your father.

Yes.

-So how long has it been in existence?

-20 years.

-20 years?

-Yes.

So let's see how much profit you made in the last 20 years

with The Nuttery.

So, the last year, 2009/10, we turned over £1.2 million.

£395,000 gross profit.

-The net profit was around £98,000.

-The previous year?

-£888,000.

Gross profit of 274.

And a loss of 37,000.

And the year before?

A very similar turnover for the year before, and a loss of 27,000.

What caused the losses?

The last 20 years, this has been a family-run business,

but we were getting more and more work coming in

and we decided to put management teams in place.

Also, the company has had consistent turnover

and variable profit for the last 20 years.

We've had years where the profit has been £200-220,000

and we've had years where we've lost money as well.

The reality is, it's been very successful.

There's nothing unusual

in a mature business having a varied trading history,

and Justin's belief in his company is clear.

Now, Peter Jones wants to drill down further into the financials.

-Julian?

-Yes.

-Hi.

Give me an idea of the net asset value, where we sit today?

-£27,000 on the balance sheet.

-Positive?

-Positive.

-We have good projections.

We believe that turnover this year

will be between £750,000 and £800,000.

-So you're going to drop by nearly 40%?

-We will drop this year, yes.

-Why?

-There's a number of reasons. The, the, the key thing is...

last year, we picked up a very large order.

It was a one-off of about £350,000,

so that made a difference to the turnover figures.

-What will be the bottom line this year?

-We estimate a loss of £78,000.

So you will take your overall...

..net asset value of that operation down to -£49,000.

If you're asking about the value of the company, that would be the case.

But we've had regular gross profit over the last however many years.

That's irrelevant.

-Your net asset value is minus.

-Sure.

-So you are worthless.

-OK.

-Well, you are.

-OK.

Differing opinions between the potential investor and the would-be investee.

Justin is struggling

to consolidate his position in the Den.

Will Deborah Meaden make it any easier for him?

Julian, I'm Deborah.

This is nice, the way you've come in with these things.

All of those things are lovely.

But you're in a grown-up business that's been around a long time.

You've got to make some money

at some point to make your business valuable. You're not making money, are you?

That's not the case.

We've sold 1.5 million feeders over the last 20 years.

Next year we're predicting a profit of £830,000, and I believe...

-Sorry?

-£83,000, I beg your pardon.

Also, we have just taken on a new design team.

Our focus has been completely on the future and pushing forward.

We have set about designing a much more contemporary range.

If I show you an example of the product, this is the Acorn.

This is a squirrel-proof feeder, stylish.

We think customers are looking for something

more design-led to put in their garden.

Part of the other aspect of any investment

would be the redevelopment of our existing range.

But there is a plethora of designs, aren't there?

Do you know, I believe I have got

the biggest collection of bird feeders in the world.

I think my husband, every time he sees a new one,

we have it up in the tree.

They're all shapes and sizes. So it's not like you'll own that space.

Deborah, the Nuttery are...

if you go into a garden centre and speak to our clients,

we're the most respected brand,

particularly for squirrel-proof bird feeders, in the UK.

Julian, is there something unique about your feeder?

The fact that you've got the two cages,

are you the only people doing this?

Is this something you've got protected, you own,

and nobody in the world can have a twin cage feeder?

The patent which was granted to us,

which expires in two years' time,

the concept of that patent was a cage within a cage.

Slow down, because I think I might have something here.

-So there was a patent that was granted when?

-1993.

-So it expires in two years' time?

-2014.

-What happens after that?

Well, after that we continue doing what we're hoping to do,

which is to keep bringing out new products and innovative ideas.

If we feel something needs to be protected, we will protect it.

So basically, you're now redesigning because in two years' time,

the business you're asking me to invest £100,000 in

-loses its intellectual rights?

-Yes.

That would make it very difficult for me to invest in you.

I'm afraid you've lost me. I can't invest, so I'm out.

Unease over its profitability

and now concerns over the longevity of the product itself.

Justin loses his first Dragon.

And Duncan Bannatyne does not look convinced either.

Julian, the valuation is crazy.

I'm buying companies at the moment with three times the profit...

at about £300,000.

-But you've asked for an investment of £666,000.

-Yes.

If I was to sell the business today,

we would take the gross profit that the business has,

brand, regular turnover.

Projected profits are moving forward as well. We have existing clients

that have given us commitments and are working with us on an ongoing basis.

I'm sorry. Great product,

but there are so many reasons not to invest.

So regretfully, Julian, I've got to say sorry, but I'm out.

Julian, I don't get the disconnection between...

your mind is kind of not connecting sales with profit.

I do understand the difference.

I'm sure you understand the difference, but you keep reiterating

and focusing, and I'm not surprised,

on turnover and gross profit and completely ignoring the fact

that you consistently have a track record of losing money

except for one year when you did make £98,000, which by your own admission,

had an exceptional item in it.

When anybody looks to value a business,

they're looking at trends and the underlying profits.

And there are none.

If you're looking at the profit this year...

Or last year. £100,000 last year with an exceptional order.

The year before, -£37,000.

-And next year, we are predicting a profit.

-You should have come in

red hot, understanding we're investors.

You're not a start-up trying to sell an idea - "I want your help, please."

You're trying to sell us a grown-up investment.

And in selling us a grown-up investment,

you needed to be absolutely on it and frankly, you haven't been.

So I can't invest, and I'm out.

-Thank you.

-Julian, can I tell you where I am?

-Yes.

I don't see me getting any return on this whatsoever.

Commercially, it's not a route that I would want to walk down.

-I'm sorry, I'm out.

-Thank you.

Three more Dragons out, and the entrepreneur's steadfast belief in his business

seems only to have alienated the multi-millionaires.

Now only Peter Jones can save Julian's investment needs.

I do think that you've made a decent presentation

very, very complicated.

I acknowledge that I've made mistakes. I put it down to nerves.

This business, I'm passionate about.

I've seen existing products that I know we can sell

large quantities of, but we just can't get over that hurdle.

There's a lot of work to be done.

We have fantastic ideas that I want to take forward.

-I need help. I'm not denying that that's the case.

-Julian...

what you should have done

was to pitch to me on the basis of,

"It's a 20-year-old business.

"It's got some real heritage. But it's struggling. We're running out of time with our IP.

"It's not happening for us,

"but I've got some new ideas to take that forward.

"I'm looking for you to invest money

"so I can take this family business and make it into something special.

"And for that, I want £100,000."

I think your whole pitch today would have been very different.

But unfortunately, it's not an investment I'll take forward today.

-OK.

-I'm out.

-Thank you.

A bitter disappointment for Julian.

It seems the more experienced the entrepreneur,

the more demanding the Dragons will be.

He leaves with nothing.

I didn't expect the financial interrogation

quite as much as it happened.

But I think there were valid questions

that I should have been more prepared for.

It was an interesting experience.

Inspiration for new businesses can be found in many places,

but some entrepreneurs need look no further than their day-job.

This was true for Glaswegian mobility salesman Fraser Sinnott,

who wanted £120,000 to manufacture his solution for those who need help with their weekly shop.

The idea we've come up with

is an easy self-service coin-operated mobility service

which can be put into any size shopping centre and other leisure facilities.

The customer inserts £5 into the coin op.

When they're finished, they return the scooter and receive a £2 refund.

Hilary Devey had some experience in the area.

Mother, who's now passed away, God bless her soul, had several of these mobility scooters

because after a month, she managed to break them all. So I do agree there is a need.

Have you done any projections?

We're expecting them to be hired out three times a day.

Where've you got that from? You didn't base it on MY mother -

once you let her loose on one, that was it. She didn't come back till five o'clock.

It wasn't a fear of scooter hogging that concerned Duncan Bannatyne.

Why do you want £120,000?

-To build docking stations.

-How many?

-50.

But are you going to tell me any one shopping centre that says they're going to take this?

-Clydebank Shopping Centre in Glasgow.

-I have to tell you, Clydebank Shopping Centre

is in Clydebank, which is not in Glasgow. Very upset that you would call Clydebank Glasgow.

-PETER:

-Why?

-Cos I'm from Clydebank, not Glasgow.

OK? What's it got to do with you? Jaggy bunnet wallop.

Fortunately, no jaggy bunnet wallop for Peter Jones.

But unfortunately for Fraser, there was no cash on offer.

You can trial these,

but you're choosing to ignore that

and risk £120,000.

Fraser, that's not right thinking.

Trial this.

But you're not going to do it with my £120,000.

I'm out.

So far tonight, all the entrepreneurs

have failed to convince the Dragons to part with their cash.

50K doesn't even scratch the surface of what you need.

I'm out.

If you've ever wondered how cars, cannons and castles

get into the Den, press the red button at the end of the programme

for a behind-the-scenes peek.

Next into the Den is father of two Nathan Pearson from Chester.

He turned his first profit at seven years old,

selling soft drinks to his football-playing friends.

Now aged 26, can he persuade the Dragons

his latest business idea is worthy of investment?

Hello, Dragons.

My name is Nathan Pearson, and I'm here today to seek £50,000

in exchange for a 25% equity share in my company, Romeo Products Ltd.

I'd also like to introduce myself as the inventor of the Romeo Shelf.

Last year, I lost my job

and in between attending interviews,

I pursued this idea.

Some months later and with the addition of a partner,

the idea was transformed into a sleek and viable product.

In an apartment without our product,

the consumer is left...

to hold drinks in their hand,

or alternatively place them on the floor.

This can often lead to accidents.

In an apartment...

..with our product,

the area is instantly transformed.

The Romeo Shelf can be securely attached to the two most common types of Juliet balcony.

Romeo...meets Juliet.

We now require tooling, advertising and stock.

As Juliet would have said, being in the same position as me...

Dragons, dragons, wherefore art thou, Dragons?

Thank you very much for your time.

I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

It's not often that Shakespeare is quoted in the Den,

but Chester-based Nathan Pearson hopes it'll help secure the £50,000 investment he needs.

On offer is 25% of his innovative outdoor shelving system.

But Duncan Bannatyne looks sceptical.

OK, Nathan, I'm confident

that I've seen similar types of brackets.

So why would you need tooling?

Why can't you attach them to the glass and sell them like that?

OK. Currently, there are brackets which will hold in place glass.

But there isn't a bracket which will fold upwards or downwards.

That's what we have created.

-OK.

-The reason it needs to fold down

is because of building regulations with these types of balconies.

They stipulate no more than a 100mm gap

in between the French doors and the balcony.

If that was the case,

the shelf itself would need to be no more than 100 mm,

which would make it quite impractical.

So the concept of it folding down means that the doors can be closed.

So tell me about... You lost your job.

What type of job were you in?

I worked in the hazardous waste industry.

Basically... my intention was to go to university.

-Yep.

-I did get to university, but I had to leave after two weeks.

-Why did you have to leave university?

-Um...

Because of problems at home, basically.

-My mum suffered with health problems, so I had to go back.

-OK.

But I've always wanted to try and stand on my own two feet.

And I got myself

into my full-time job, and that's what I've done since.

The young entrepreneur's drive and determination has clearly impressed the Dragons.

But what of the business on offer?

Theo Paphitis wants to know.

-Nathan, well done.

-Thank you.

-You're being creative.

You're out there being entrepreneurial. Who owns the business?

There's four of us.

What do you own?

-37.5%.

-You've got 37.5%.

My partner, Jason, has 37.5%.

-Did he put any money in?

-Yes, he has put money in.

-Tina has 12.5%.

-Tina has 12.5%.

And Ken has 12.5%.

And what do Ken and Tina do?

They own a marketing company.

-How much did they put in?

-25% of £12,000.

That's how much we've spent so far.

Nathan, can I just clear something up?

Tina and Ken - they put in...?

-£3,000.

-For their 25%.

So I guess my next question is, why would I put in £50,000 for my 25%?

Basically, what we're saying at the moment, as it stands,

is that you value any Dragon's input

considerably less than Tina and Ken's.

Sorry. What's also happened outside of the cash investment is, er...

we sold 25%

for £37,000 worth of marketing.

So actually, you're saying is they paid more than that, but it was sweat equity?

-Yes.

-OK. Has that manifested itself in something changing?

Because it's not about how much work somebody does,

it's about the effect they have on a business.

We've got a letter of intent

from the largest UK online shelving supplier.

What's the value of that order - this letter of intent?

That'll be for £2,500.

You see, Nathan, this company has not moved on an awful lot.

But they've also created a marketing campaign.

Exposure is not enough on its own.

It's got to turn into orders.

A nerve-racking exchange for Nathan, but all five Dragons are still in.

Peter Jones now looks ready to show his hand.

Nathan, I think you've done a really good job to take a product and put it out there.

And I think that people will buy it for its novelty factor.

But it will not be bought in volume

to make it a business

that will actually make you money.

And it's not going to make me money at £50,000.

So for that reason, Nathan, unfortunately I'm out.

OK. Thank you.

-HILARY:

-Nathan, I think you've done

-remarkably well.

-Thank you.

What you have created is a space creator.

I've been to these type of apartments,

-and space is at a premium in them.

-It is.

But I think I would think more laterally. And you should...

think about expanding that shelf, not just for a bottle and a glass,

-but actually doing it as a buffet shelf.

-OK.

But I think you've a long way to go before you get there.

I'm not prepared to invest in it.

-I'm sorry, I'm out.

-Thank you.

Valuable advice, but no offers of investment.

Deborah Meaden has made up her mind, too.

I think you presented really well. I like your thought process.

You've come up with a solution to something,

and you've done it. However...

you've got experienced businesspeople behind you who've allowed you to come in here

asking us to invest in a structure

that is completely unworkable,

because you're asking for £50,000.

When I look at how everybody else has invested and the value I'm going to bring,

I would have to own...

actually, 100% of the company to be on level pegging.

So it's completely knocked any kind of deal

or arrangement we could have out of the window.

I haven't even gone into how much they'd be happy to dilute.

You've made it, for me, uninvestable.

-So I'm out.

-All right, thank you.

Nathan, I'm going to encourage you.

and say good on you that you thought of something, got it to this stage.

And then I'm going to go on and say...

you've come into the Den with a deal that irritates.

This is not something that I can even contemplate investing in,

which is disappointing because that's why I'm here.

-OK.

-So I'm out.

-All right. Thank you.

-DUNCAN:

-I'm angry, Nathan.

But I'm not angry at you. I'm angry at this lot.

They're totally, absolutely wrong.

It doesn't matter what the first-stage investors got,

what price they paid. It's totally irrelevant.

It's what the product is worth today that matters. Nothing else.

But my problem is,

I don't think you'll sell enough.

As far as I'm concerned, you should all continue your full-time jobs

and have it as a part-time business.

I think you can sell some on your website,

but not enough to make it viable for an investor like myself.

-For that reason, I'm sorry, Nathan, but I'm out.

-OK.

-Good luck.

-HILARY:

-Good luck, Nathan.

-Thank you.

Nathan may not have received an investment,

but his pitch certainly made an impact with the Dragons.

-Did you lot get out the wrong side of bed?

-I've never heard so much rubbish!

What does it matter what the other shareholders paid?

If something moves on in value,

then it's OK if shareholders get a discounted price.

-But it hasn't moved on in value.

-They didn't get a discounted price - they got the price on that day.

-And it hasn't changed.

-If it hasn't changed, it hasn't changed.

So it's not worth any more money. I'm not having that conversation with you. It's ridiculous.

Other entrepreneurs who tried and failed in the Den

were friends William Dolman and Keith Matthews,

who needed £150,000 to fund their redesign

of our plug-and-socket system.

The Dolman Cobra is a unique invention,

designed to eliminate most of the associated problems with plugs.

If you catch your feet on a trailing cable,

the plug pulls out safely.

To replace, back in the socket, and press until fully in.

Simple and easy to use.

The Dragons were unanimous in their praise for the concept.

It looks really inventive.

But you're going to come up against a level of resistance

for many, many, many years to come.

Peter, you don't remember the change from round pin to square pin, do you?

No.

I remember it, but if you change the sockets, you'd have to convince every householder to change it.

That's not going to happen - not in my lifetime.

-But that's not to say it couldn't happen in mine.

-HE CHUCKLES

In the end, the multi-millionaires were also united in their analysis of the investment proposition.

I would say, it's a shame that you weren't here to design the electric plug first.

Cos I think it's better.

The problem is, this is so deeply rooted

into the infrastructure of the country, it's going to be a nightmare.

You are trying to climb Mount Everest

in your flip-flops.

I'm out.

London-based business partners Rob Beresford and Emma Kennedy

hoped consumer power would tempt the Dragons

to invest £200,000 in their online venture.

Our website brings hundreds of people together

to get fabulous deals across a range of products and services.

What we do is commonly referred to as group buying.

We do have two significant competitors -

Groupon was valued at 6 billion.

This group of investors have much experience of e-commerce

and were quick to ask the key questions.

£200,000 - what are you going to do with it?

£150,000 we have allotted to online advertising,

-the bulk of it, over three months.

-So, what happens when we run out of money in three months' time?

-If it was to happen, then we would have to look for more money.

-Once we start advertising,

it will take what we do to a whole new level.

In the end, Dragon power spoke,

and Rob and Emma left the Den without the investment they needed.

In my opinion, this business is flawed before it starts.

The burn in this business is the fastest burn rate you can imagine.

I think you're bang on, Peter.

Every single online business I've invested in,

I have known when I've invested there's going to be a call for cash.

The idea's good, but you're going to have to throw a lot of money at this

if you're going to stand any chance whatsoever.

I'm out.

Friends Andrea McDowall and Rebecca Baldwin from London are next into the Den.

They've taken their ten years of experience in one industry

and found a fresh way to apply it in business.

Will it impress the Dragons?

Hi, there, Dragons.

My name is Andrea, and this is my business partner, Becs.

And together, we run a country company called Shoot It Yourself.

We've come into the Den today to ask for £60,000

in return for 20%.

We are the only wedding videography company

that hires out broadcast-quality video cameras to be given to friends and family

the day before their wedding, and then they take it in turns to film the day.

And we edit whatever they film into a professional wedding DVD.

I came up with the idea whilst trying to plan my own wedding back in 2009.

As someone with ten years' experience in television,

I was really surprised there wasn't a cheaper and more fun alternative

to the more traditional wedding videographer.

We offer a one-camera package for £849,

and a two-camera package for £949.

So, Becs is going to give you out some DVDs.

And then I'm going to play you a brief video to show why our videos are different.

There you go. This is what the finished product looks like.

Thank you.

'It's going really well.

-'Where are the shirts?

-Tell everyone we'll do tomorrow.

'I'm married!

'Don't bring her back!

-'116 people officially cried!

-What are their names again?

'# Cos I found love... #'

'Happy birthday! Or...holiday?'

So, have you got any questions?

An enthusiastic pitch by young mums Andrea McDowell and Rebecca Baldwin from Clapham.

They want to modernise the nation's wedding videos,

and need a £60,000 investment to do so.

In return, a 20% stake is on offer.

But Peter Jones has some immediate concerns.

Hi, I'm Peter. Erm...why is it so expensive?

£849, to hire one camera?

We started out charging £399, and it didn't quite cover our overheads.

And we kept pressing the price up and up until we reached a point where,

at £849, we felt that people were still booking.

And we're getting 10 to 15 bookings every month.

Give me a total figure that you're forecasting to sell this year.

By the end of this year, net profit will be £74,000.

By 2013, £119,000.

So, you give somebody the camera, they pay you £849.

How long does it then take you to edit that and send it back to them as a completed video?

It takes six to eight weeks for them to get their finished video.

And how long does it take you internally to get it done?

It takes three days. It costs us about £400.

So, would it be fair to say that your...

gross margin is 50%, or thereabouts?

Erm, it's around £500 per video.

Sure-footed responses from the fledgling businesswomen.

And something seems to have struck a chord with Theo Paphitis.

Erm...

Simple.

Doesn't cost a lot of money to set up. Obviously a demand.

I know it costs a small fortune to get a professional video done,

having got a daughter that got married last year.

Erm...what were you doing beforehand?

-I was a producer-director.

-So was I.

We gave up our careers in television because we wanted to be self-employed and work for ourselves.

And this is definitely a future for us in doing that.

Plus, we really believe in the skill that we have,

in the editing process, and our passion, as well, for what we do

will mean that we will drive this business on.

Talk me through the £60,000 - how are we going to spend it?

At the moment we're spending £1,500 a month on, erm,

magazine advertising, and also Google Adwords.

And we're just barely even scratching the surface, really.

So we'd like to use £30,000 to just increase our brand awareness, really.

So I've still got £30,000 to spend...

We'd like to invest in more camera equipment and, as we get bigger,

we'll need more computer equipment.

-DUNCAN:

-Andrea, Becs...

My concern is that you can only make an amazing video

when you've edited the footage.

And if the footage is terrible, you can't make an amazing video.

And sometimes, you must be in a position where you give someone a camera,

and it comes back with bad footage.

And you can't edit it, you can't make a good video.

We know that the footage that comes back will sometimes be a bit wobbly,

and will have been operated when people might have had a bit to drink.

But that's part of the fun.

Do they have a contract, and does it say in that contract,

"If you come back with some real rubbish,

"then you'll get a rubbish video, and you still pay for it."

Well, they pay upfront.

And of the 80 that we've done so far, we haven't had one single one

that has come back which we haven't been able to edit.

It's giving somebody who loves you the responsibility of capturing the things they'd be doing anyway -

enjoying themselves with their friends and family.

So you would hope they would take that responsibility.

The two friends are handling the Dragons with some aplomb.

Hilary Devey looks impressed.

-HILARY:

-Erm...

I think it's a fantastic idea.

-Thank you.

-Congratulations to you both.

I think you will go...

..very far, very fast.

I could think of hundreds of ideas to get you there - hundreds.

Where's your vision for this?

In the very short time that we've been going,

we have generated quite a big noise about what we do.

We are very friendly with all of the leading bridal magazines,

and we advertise in all of those monthly.

There is a definite market for the pre-wedding events.

We've taken three bookings for children's birthdays.

And, also, we've been contacted by a large accountancy firm

for using our camera for corporate away-days.

Without listening to what the other Dragons have got to say,

I'd like to make you an offer.

I will offer you the full amount...

for 26% of your business.

OK. Thank you, Hilary.

In an attempt to outmanoeuvre her rivals,

Hilary Devey has put in a low and early bid

for the south Londoners' company.

Now, will the remaining Dragons choose to compete?

I, er... I think YOU'RE very good.

Erm, I think, I've listened to you answer,

very eloquently, a lot of the questions that are thrown at you.

And I think it'd be fun. I think it would be a lot of fun.

But I'm not going to improve on that offer.

So...

I'm out.

-THEO:

-So, erm, if I was to compete with you,

it doesn't take a huge amount of money...

But there are 230,000 people getting married every single year.

There's room for more than one of us.

Listen, I do believe you're going to be successful.

I'm going to wish you the best of luck, but this is not one for me,

-so I'm out.

-Thank you, Theo.

-PETER:

-I think you've done really well.

You've got...a nice little... A nice little earner, let's say.

But I'm not convinced it's a business.

I can't see how this could make a serious amount of money,

so that's the reason why I'm out.

We look forward to proving you wrong, Peter.

Words of encouragement but no rival bids - and there's just one Dragon left.

I think it would be a lot of fun.

But, er...

Yeah, it's just...

My problem is...the valuation.

Today, you're valuing it with £60,000 at 20% -

that's £300,000.

And Hilary has just valued it at £240,000.

So, I think that Hilary's made you an excellent offer.

And I think you should accept it.

But I can't beat it.

I'm not going to try and match it.

And so I'm out.

Hilary, we did come in wanting to just really give away

20% of our business - is there any chance that you would be able to...?

No, because I think you need a lot of work.

And like I say, I've got hundreds of ideas.

So, no, I've got to keep myself interested,

because I think you've got a long way to go.

I think it WILL go a long way, definitely,

and I think you'll both be very successful.

And I also think you'll both be very rich at the end of it.

And that's why I'm sticking at 26%.

-(What do you want to do?

-I think we should do it.)

(Yep.)

-Hilary, we'd like to accept your offer.

-Good.

-Well done.

Andrea and Rebecca have done it.

-Well done.

-Brilliant. Thank you.

They enchanted all the Dragons

and now walk away with the enthusiasm, the experience and the cash of Hilary Devey.

-DUNCAN:

-Well done, Hilary.

-I can see massive potential in that.

Becs, Andrea, very well done.

And you seem very happy with the outcome.

-Can't believe it - it's amazing.

-It's amazing!

And she was quite a dark horse, Hilary, wasn't she?

She just came out with that offer...

I had a quick glance while we were playing the video and I watched her,

and her face - she was beaming from ear to ear.

-She looked really excited.

-Yeah.

-So, I was quite hopeful that she was going to like our idea.

-That's why we were so taken aback.

For Hilary to just come in and offer that straightaway,

-it just kind of blew us away a bit.

-Well, very good luck with it.

Another day in the Den, and another investment.

That's not the end of the story, though.

It may be hard work to get the money here,

but it's even harder work to make a successful business with it.

To hear more from the entrepreneurs about their time in the Den,

press the red button now.

You can also visit our website...

Goodbye.

Next time on Dragons' Den...

You may well sell a few, but commercially?

No, love.

Kid A would say, "No, I want a squibble," so I'm sitting here tomorrow,

so you would still have a squabble about a squibble.

It's not a business plan - it's a road to rack and ruin.

My husband would think that was a really great thing.

It's a real frustration. And the only way I can deal with that...

is to make you an offer.

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