Pennod 2 o 2 ‹ Gwynfor: Yr Aelod Dros Gymru?

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-The result of the Carmarthen -by-election in 1966 was astounding.	0:00:02	0:00:07
-Many saw Gwynfor Evans -as a national saviour...	0:00:08	0:00:11
-..but the victory opened the door...	0:00:12	0:00:15
-..to a period of bitter feuding -in Welsh politics.	0:00:15	0:00:19
-It was very exciting, -going up to London.	0:00:20	0:00:23
-Everybody lined the streets -in places like Brynaman.	0:00:24	0:00:27
-They were waving at us.	0:00:28	0:00:30
-It was a very exciting time.	0:00:30	0:00:32
-My father was very happy -and excited...	0:00:33	0:00:37
-..but the responsibility -laid heavily on his shoulders.	0:00:37	0:00:42
-Personally, I think it was -the highlight of his life.	0:00:45	0:00:49
-It changed the self-confidence -of the Welsh people.	0:00:50	0:00:54
-The idea of the Member for Wales -came about...	0:00:56	0:01:00
-..because only he was good enough -to represent Wales in Parliament!	0:01:00	0:01:04
-Cledwyn Hughes, Jim Griffiths -and Goronwy Roberts...	0:01:04	0:01:07
-..didn't represent Wales	0:01:07	0:01:09
-Their hearts didn't work for the -people of Wales. Only he did that!	0:01:09	0:01:14
-When Dafydd Iwan -released the record...	0:01:15	0:01:18
-..'God willing, he will come'...	0:01:18	0:01:20
-..he wasn't happy with that record -because in his opinion...	0:01:20	0:01:24
-..he had already arrived -and it was him.	0:01:25	0:01:27
-He was supposed to be -Wales's saviour.	0:01:28	0:01:31
-It was a clear signal -to my generation...	0:01:42	0:01:45
-..and to Dafydd Wigley's -and Phil Williams' generation...	0:01:45	0:01:48
-..that a political career -was possible through Plaid Cymru.	0:01:48	0:01:52
-The result started a new era, -not only for Wales...	0:01:55	0:01:58
-..but for Scotland -and British politics.	0:01:59	0:02:01
-The Carmarthen by-election, -July 1966...	0:02:01	0:02:04
-..and Gwynfor's victory, -created that.	0:02:04	0:02:06
-I did regret the fact -that Gwilym Prys-Davies had lost.	0:02:07	0:02:14
-I think Gwilym Prys-Davies would -have been a more effective MP...	0:02:15	0:02:21
-..but I was delighted that Gwynfor -had won as a Plaid member.	0:02:21	0:02:26
-Excitement filled the place.	0:02:31	0:02:34
-Elystan said, "What have I done? -I've made a mistake, haven't I?"	0:02:34	0:02:41
-I never said -that I had made a mistake.	0:02:42	0:02:45
-I can't tell you whether -I would have left the party...	0:02:46	0:02:50
-..if I hadn't joined Labour...	0:02:51	0:02:53
-..and Gwynfor had won in 1966.	0:02:54	0:02:57
-Whether I would have had the moral -courage to leave, I don't know.	0:02:57	0:03:02
-Gwynfor's supporters and enemies -would agree...	0:03:03	0:03:07
-..that his election had -transformed the political climate.	0:03:07	0:03:11
-But after the thrill of victory...	0:03:12	0:03:14
-..it was time to face the reality -of the House of Commons.	0:03:14	0:03:18
-Gwynfor said he felt like -a fish out of water in Parliament.	0:03:18	0:03:22
-He couldn't bear the arrogant -Englishness of the place.	0:03:23	0:03:27
-His frosty relationship with Welsh -Labour members made things worse.	0:03:27	0:03:32
-With a few exceptions, like -Elystan Morgan and Cledwyn Hughes...	0:03:32	0:03:37
-..they hated the nationalist.	0:03:37	0:03:40
-If anybody asks me -about Gwynfor Evans...	0:03:41	0:03:44
-..the ultimate conclusion -I have of him...	0:03:44	0:03:48
-..he was the biggest bore -I knew in politics.	0:03:49	0:03:53
-Because of his -single-minded tunnel vision...	0:03:53	0:03:59
-..concentrating entirely, -always upon the language.	0:03:59	0:04:04
-He ran on tram lines.	0:04:04	0:04:06
-The Labour members were prepared -to attack him mercilessly...	0:04:07	0:04:11
-..and they would not compromise -with the new arrival.	0:04:11	0:04:16
-The reaction of most Labour MPs...	0:04:16	0:04:21
-..was to decide -that no further concessions...	0:04:22	0:04:25
-..would be given to Plaid -Cymru or Welsh nationalism.	0:04:25	0:04:29
-It became very difficult for the -devolutionists in the Labour Party.	0:04:29	0:04:35
-It made political life difficult, -of course...	0:04:35	0:04:40
-..but if it created problems, -it also created possibilities.	0:04:40	0:04:44
-We were more convinced than ever -that the Labour Party needed...	0:04:44	0:04:50
-..more members like me to do the -work, and I think we've done that.	0:04:50	0:04:54
-Without an office, but with his -daughter, Meleri, as secretary...	0:04:54	0:04:58
-..the working day was unusual.	0:04:58	0:05:01
-We would sit on a settee -in a corridor...	0:05:02	0:05:05
-..and we'd have papers across the -settee, on the floor - everywhere.	0:05:05	0:05:10
-We'd be there for hours...	0:05:10	0:05:13
-..going through the letters -and answering them.	0:05:13	0:05:17
-Then we'd go and stay -with his sister, Ceridwen...	0:05:17	0:05:21
-..who lived just down the road.	0:05:21	0:05:23
-We would type the letters -during the night...	0:05:23	0:05:26
-..and return in the morning -for him to sign them.	0:05:26	0:05:29
-If London was difficult...	0:05:31	0:05:32
-..he received a hero's welcome at -the party conference that summer.	0:05:32	0:05:37
-Money and members -poured into Plaid Cymru...	0:05:37	0:05:40
-..and Gwynfor was the big idol.	0:05:40	0:05:43
-He felt that some went too far.	0:05:43	0:05:46
-They would almost -fall down before him.	0:05:47	0:05:50
-But he was happy that a group -within the party...	0:05:50	0:05:55
-..would support him -no matter what he said.	0:05:56	0:05:59
-I think there was -a fair reason to do that.	0:06:00	0:06:03
-He had devoted his life -to that organisation.	0:06:03	0:06:06
-I think he was the best leader.	0:06:06	0:06:09
-But at the conference, -listening to the leader...	0:06:11	0:06:15
-..were members -of the Free Wales Army.	0:06:15	0:06:18
-Turn right!	0:06:18	0:06:20
-The FWA destroyed a lot -of Plaid Cymru's credibility...	0:06:21	0:06:26
-..and Gwynfor's credibility.	0:06:26	0:06:29
-One of the pillars -of Gwynfor's cause since 1945...	0:06:29	0:06:33
-..was Plaid Cymru's respectability.	0:06:33	0:06:36
-It wasn't overly-radical...	0:06:36	0:06:38
-..and wouldn't offend -the respectable people...	0:06:38	0:06:41
-..who always voted -for the Liberal Party.	0:06:41	0:06:44
-Gwynfor denied all links -with the FWA...	0:06:45	0:06:48
-..by sticking to the work -of the constitutional nationalist.	0:06:48	0:06:52
-He used a technique...	0:06:52	0:06:54
-..and he led the way -in developing this technique...	0:06:54	0:06:57
-..of asking lots and lots -of Parliamentary Questions.	0:06:58	0:07:01
-He had a very intelligent team.	0:07:01	0:07:03
-People like Dafydd Wigley, -Phil Williams and Eurfyl ap Gwilym.	0:07:04	0:07:08
-They would feed these questions...	0:07:08	0:07:10
-..and he would just keep on -asking about the situation in Wales.	0:07:11	0:07:15
-By the end of his first year...	0:07:16	0:07:18
-..he had asked more than -600 questions about Wales...	0:07:18	0:07:22
-..and the Labour Government's -efforts to improve Wales.	0:07:22	0:07:26
-But it wasn't helping...	0:07:26	0:07:28
-..the Welshman from Anglesey -in the Welsh Office.	0:07:28	0:07:31
-Cledwyn Hughes wanted to establish -an elected council for Wales.	0:07:31	0:07:36
-But some Labour members felt -it would be better...	0:07:36	0:07:39
-..to spend more time -bashing the nationalists.	0:07:39	0:07:43
-Within the first 15 to 18 months...	0:07:44	0:07:48
-..he had lost important debates -in favour of the elected council...	0:07:48	0:07:53
-..in three Cabinet committees.	0:07:53	0:07:57
-And before long, he lost his job -to a politician...	0:07:58	0:08:02
-..whose views on Wales, -the Welsh language and Gwynfor...	0:08:02	0:08:05
-..were very different - -George Thomas.	0:08:06	0:08:08
-The Welsh Questions hour developed -into a personal battle...	0:08:10	0:08:15
-..between Gwynfor and George Thomas.	0:08:15	0:08:17
-The Secretary of State for Wales -seized every opportunity...	0:08:18	0:08:21
-..to lambast the nationalists -and the Plaid Cymru MP.	0:08:22	0:08:26
-According to Gwynfor, Leo Abse -was gentle compared to George.	0:08:26	0:08:31
-"Bore da i gyd."	0:08:31	0:08:33
-That means, "Good morning -all members here."	0:08:33	0:08:35
-Some believed -that hidden nationalists...	0:08:38	0:08:43
-..threatened the future -of the Labour Party.	0:08:43	0:08:46
-That they were behind the curtain, -behind the wallpaper.	0:08:47	0:08:50
-I can remember a lot of things -George Thomas said...	0:08:50	0:08:56
-..about "these nationalists".	0:08:57	0:08:59
-The last year of the decade, -the year of the Investiture...	0:09:00	0:09:04
-..was even more fierce -in its politics.	0:09:04	0:09:07
-The party's Vice President -was Prince Charles' Welsh tutor.	0:09:07	0:09:10
-I'm certain that I have -the best authority...	0:09:10	0:09:15
-..to say that it was -a political stunt.	0:09:15	0:09:20
-The party's policy, and it was -a wise policy at the time...	0:09:21	0:09:27
-..was to keep our heads down.	0:09:28	0:09:30
-You couldn't win -by attacking the Monarchy.	0:09:30	0:09:34
-Wise or not, -Plaid Cymru was in a mess...	0:09:35	0:09:38
-..and Gwynfor was under -serious pressure...	0:09:38	0:09:41
-..as secret organisations -bombed prominent buildings.	0:09:41	0:09:45
-I think that Mr Gwynfor Evans...	0:09:46	0:09:49
-..must be feeling thoroughly -ashamed of himself.	0:09:49	0:09:52
-I believe that nationalism has -created an atmosphere of hatred...	0:09:53	0:09:57
-..with their constant reference -to the English Government.	0:09:57	0:10:01
-There was a deliberate strategy -by the Labour Government...	0:10:02	0:10:07
-..by Gwynoro Jones, -by George Thomas...	0:10:07	0:10:10
-..as is proven in this memoranda...	0:10:10	0:10:13
-..that Plaid Cymru was ambiguous -in its condemnation of violence.	0:10:13	0:10:20
-The Labour Party collected quotes -by Gwynfor over previous years...	0:10:20	0:10:27
-..to "prove" that Gwynfor Evans...	0:10:27	0:10:30
-..was ambiguous -on the use of violence.	0:10:30	0:10:33
-The aim was to link Gwynfor Evans -with the bombings in Wales.	0:10:33	0:10:39
-I wanted to tell him -that there were extremists...	0:10:40	0:10:43
-..and militants within Plaid Cymru.	0:10:44	0:10:47
-That people promoted and supported -law-breaking.	0:10:47	0:10:52
-That was the '60s in Wales.	0:10:53	0:10:55
-The party had to be defended -against accusations...	0:10:56	0:11:00
-..that it was a violent party.	0:11:00	0:11:03
-That winning politically -would lead to that sort of action.	0:11:04	0:11:11
-Some very foolish things -were said at the time.	0:11:11	0:11:15
-# O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau! #	0:11:15	0:11:28
-Gwynfor wasn't there...	0:11:28	0:11:30
-..but he met the Prince -two days later in Carmarthen.	0:11:30	0:11:34
-REPORTER: Mr Evans had been -invited to the Investiture...	0:11:34	0:11:38
-..but as a nationalist MP, -he decided not to go.	0:11:38	0:11:41
-He was very sensitive about attacks -from within the party...	0:11:41	0:11:49
-..and from those who said he wasn't -enough of a nationalist.	0:11:49	0:11:53
-He couldn't stand that. -It did bother him.	0:11:53	0:11:58
-It was also a period of protests -by Cymdeithas yr Iaith...	0:11:58	0:12:02
-..and his daughter, Meinir, -was one of many who were arrested.	0:12:03	0:12:06
-It was a difficult time -for my father...	0:12:07	0:12:10
-..because he went to Parliament...	0:12:10	0:12:12
-..and they reminded him that -his daughter had broken the law.	0:12:12	0:12:16
-I'll never forget -the way he supported us.	0:12:16	0:12:18
-He said he was proud of us...	0:12:19	0:12:21
-..and that we needed people -to stand up for Wales.	0:12:21	0:12:25
-His support was invaluable -to us all.	0:12:25	0:12:30
-But in his constituency...	0:12:30	0:12:32
-..that attitude -didn't appeal to everybody...	0:12:32	0:12:35
-..and he lost his seat to -the Labour member, Gwynoro Jones.	0:12:36	0:12:40
-Someone said, "We thought -we were voting for an MP...	0:12:41	0:12:44
-.."and it turned out -we voted for the Messiah."	0:12:44	0:12:47
-That's the sort of feeling he left.	0:12:48	0:12:50
-He hadn't done enough to show that -he was a good MP for the area.	0:12:50	0:12:58
-He was more of a leader -for the national organisation...	0:12:58	0:13:02
-..than a hard worker -for the constituency.	0:13:02	0:13:05
-After four years -of parliamentary action...	0:13:05	0:13:08
-..Gwynfor was on the sidelines -without a seat, a job...	0:13:08	0:13:12
-..or a guaranteed income.	0:13:12	0:13:14
-888	0:13:24	0:13:26
-Losing Carmarthen in 1970, -after winning the seat...	0:13:31	0:13:35
-..in dramatic fashion -four years earlier...	0:13:35	0:13:38
-..was one of the lowest points -of Gwynfor's career.	0:13:38	0:13:41
-He returned here to Llangadog...	0:13:41	0:13:43
-..but he wasn't about to withdraw -into a political wilderness.	0:13:43	0:13:47
-Within minutes, -he was planning the next campaign.	0:13:47	0:13:50
-At the party conference -that summer...	0:13:51	0:13:53
-..it was obvious that being idle -wasn't an option.	0:13:53	0:13:56
-The four years he spent in London, -between 1966 and 1970...	0:13:56	0:14:01
-..were so difficult for him.	0:14:01	0:14:04
-It was hard for him physically -and emotionally.	0:14:04	0:14:08
-When he lost the seat in 1970...	0:14:08	0:14:10
-..although it was a disappointment -for him, it was also a relief.	0:14:10	0:14:15
-He needed that rest.	0:14:15	0:14:18
-The first thing he did -was to start writing a book.	0:14:20	0:14:25
-But he was ready for that...	0:14:25	0:14:27
-..and he was ready to do so -in his own home.	0:14:28	0:14:31
-His book on the history of Wales -was the fruit of that labour.	0:14:31	0:14:35
-The disappointment -of losing Carmarthen...	0:14:37	0:14:40
-..pushed dozens -of Gwynfor's supporters...	0:14:40	0:14:43
-..to join Cymdeithas yr Iaith.	0:14:43	0:14:45
-It offered -a more pro-active path...	0:14:46	0:14:48
-..than an ineffective party.	0:14:48	0:14:50
-Plaid Cymru is excellent -at creating euphoria.	0:14:51	0:14:54
-For me, it confirms -the revivalist elements.	0:14:54	0:14:59
-They are excellent -at rallying support...	0:14:59	0:15:02
-..but what do you do -after gaining power?	0:15:02	0:15:05
-It was a complete shambles.	0:15:05	0:15:09
-Had Plaid Cymru been -a proper political party...	0:15:09	0:15:13
-..they would have made sure -that the seat was theirs forever.	0:15:13	0:15:18
-Things weren't much better -for Gwynfor in his own backyard.	0:15:19	0:15:23
-At the Dyfed County Council -elections...	0:15:23	0:15:26
-..he lost Llangadog for the first -time in almost 25 years.	0:15:27	0:15:30
-The village and the chapel -were divided.	0:15:30	0:15:34
-The disappointment -of losing on that day...	0:15:34	0:15:37
-..was almost worse -than any disappointment...	0:15:37	0:15:40
-..he had experienced -in Parliament...	0:15:40	0:15:43
-..because his own people -had conspired against him.	0:15:44	0:15:48
-The Conservatives and Labour -worked together...	0:15:48	0:15:52
-..to get rid of him.	0:15:52	0:15:54
-The family decided that leaving -Providence Chapel was best.	0:15:54	0:15:59
-Edward Heath was Prime Minister -at the time.	0:16:01	0:16:04
-It was the period of the three-day -week and the miners' strike.	0:16:04	0:16:08
-Another election battle was looming.	0:16:08	0:16:11
-The two sides' most -ardent supporters were enraged.	0:16:12	0:16:16
-They were enraged.	0:16:16	0:16:18
-People from both sides...	0:16:18	0:16:20
-..wrote to local papers every week.	0:16:21	0:16:24
-They would reply to each other.	0:16:25	0:16:27
-What was unfortunate -was the amount of personal attacks.	0:16:28	0:16:33
-That he wouldn't live long, -that he had cancer.	0:16:33	0:16:36
-I was worried that it wasn't -a political battle...	0:16:36	0:16:40
-..but undoing the personal battle -against Gwynfor by his enemies.	0:16:40	0:16:46
-I didn't like him very much, no.	0:16:46	0:16:48
-Hate?	0:16:48	0:16:50
-Well, I hated the fact -that they misused the facts.	0:16:50	0:16:57
-He didn't tell the truth.	0:16:59	0:17:01
-It wasn't true that there weren't -Labour members...	0:17:01	0:17:05
-..or Liberals, or even Tories, -who weren't patriotic...	0:17:05	0:17:10
-..who didn't believe -in Wales or Welshness.	0:17:10	0:17:13
-That wasn't true -and that angered me.	0:17:14	0:17:17
-To a degree, I did hate him -during that period.	0:17:17	0:17:21
-February 28th, 1974, -was the day of the vote.	0:17:21	0:17:26
-It would be a dramatic night.	0:17:26	0:17:28
-From Gwynedd, excellent news -arrived for Plaid Cymru.	0:17:28	0:17:31
-Dafydd Elis-Thomas 7,800.	0:17:32	0:17:36
-LOUD CHEERING	0:17:37	0:17:39
-Two memorable victories...	0:17:39	0:17:40
-..for Dafydd Elis Thomas -and Dafydd Wigley.	0:17:41	0:17:44
-It was painfully close -in Carmarthen.	0:17:44	0:17:46
-After a recount, there was just -a handful of votes in it.	0:17:47	0:17:51
-With three votes, you ask for -ten recounts just to make sure...	0:17:51	0:17:56
-..but Gwynfor didn't want us to.	0:17:56	0:17:58
-By the next day, -when another count was made...	0:17:58	0:18:02
-..we were aware of the situation -in Parliament.	0:18:02	0:18:05
-Gwynfor knew there would be -another election...	0:18:06	0:18:09
-..because the winning party -didn't have enough of a majority.	0:18:09	0:18:13
-That's why he let it go...	0:18:13	0:18:16
-..although Gwynoro Jones -had won by three votes.	0:18:16	0:18:19
-Knowing he didn't have to wait long -for another chance...	0:18:23	0:18:28
-..he retreated -to the grounds at Gwernellyn.	0:18:28	0:18:31
-Between the elections in '74...	0:18:31	0:18:33
-..the gardens -were less prosperous than ever.	0:18:33	0:18:36
-There were genuine fears -of bankruptcy.	0:18:36	0:18:41
-Everything possible was done -to keep it quiet...	0:18:41	0:18:45
-..but after reclaiming the seat, -the business was closed...	0:18:45	0:18:49
-..and the debt cleared -by Gwynfor's brother, Alcwyn.	0:18:49	0:18:52
-He captured Carmarthen again -in the autumn...	0:18:54	0:18:57
-..defeating Gwynoro Jones...	0:18:57	0:18:59
-..with the biggest vote for -any candidate in Plaid's history.	0:18:59	0:19:04
-The primary objective -is to get a Parliament for Wales.	0:19:05	0:19:09
-Gwynfor's second period in -Parliament was more enjoyable.	0:19:14	0:19:18
-He liked having two enthusiastic -politicians at his side.	0:19:18	0:19:22
-They were good days -for nationalists...	0:19:22	0:19:25
-..as there were eleven members -of the SNP here.	0:19:25	0:19:28
-As a party leader, he was invited -to official dinners...	0:19:28	0:19:32
-..and because the Labour majority -was so small...	0:19:33	0:19:36
-..he could have more influence.	0:19:36	0:19:38
-There was also a keen -devolutionist in the Welsh Office.	0:19:38	0:19:43
-John Morris' job -was to turn the dream...	0:19:44	0:19:46
-..into a parliamentary measure.	0:19:47	0:19:49
-The homework had been done.	0:19:49	0:19:52
-Our job, in 1974, -was to turn those ideas into law.	0:19:53	0:20:00
-But after a painstaking process...	0:20:01	0:20:03
-..Government plans -were weaker than expected.	0:20:03	0:20:06
-Some wanted to reject them -but Gwynfor remained supportive.	0:20:06	0:20:10
-Gwynfor was always in favour -of the pragmatic response.	0:20:11	0:20:16
-His line was always...	0:20:17	0:20:18
-.."We, as a party, can't be seen -to oppose attempts at devolution."	0:20:18	0:20:22
-There were years of discussions...	0:20:23	0:20:25
-..about the need -for an Assembly in Cardiff.	0:20:25	0:20:28
-But as the discussions -dragged on into the early hours...	0:20:28	0:20:32
-..Gwynfor felt, publicly at least, -that it was achievable.	0:20:32	0:20:37
-The parliamentary battle -had been a long and bitter one...	0:20:38	0:20:42
-..when what many saw as the death -knell to devolution occurred.	0:20:42	0:20:46
-A clause was passed which meant -that 40% of Welsh voters...	0:20:46	0:20:51
-..would have to support the -Assembly for it to be accepted.	0:20:51	0:20:55
-For the devolutionists, -it was starting to look hopeless.	0:20:55	0:20:59
-And when the referendum arrived...	0:20:59	0:21:02
-..Labour rebels were the most -vociferous campaigners.	0:21:02	0:21:06
-Neil Kinnock and Leo Abse were -determined to bury devolution.	0:21:06	0:21:10
-ANNOUNCER: Give a massive 'No' -to the Welsh Assembly.	0:21:10	0:21:14
-Wales was being used as a ploy...	0:21:14	0:21:16
-..not what was in -the interests of Wales.	0:21:18	0:21:21
-It was being used to get -a handful of nationalist votes...	0:21:21	0:21:25
-..so that the Callaghan Government -could continue.	0:21:25	0:21:30
-I found that insulting to Wales, -that it should be used...	0:21:30	0:21:34
-..as a pawn in miserable -Westminster politics of that kind.	0:21:34	0:21:39
-The big disappointment -was seeing the Labour Party...	0:21:40	0:21:43
-..allowing their members -to argue against their policy.	0:21:43	0:21:50
-We had to do the work -on behalf of the Labour Party...	0:21:50	0:21:54
-..for devolution for Wales.	0:21:55	0:21:57
-And Plaid Cymru's role in -the campaign is still criticised.	0:21:57	0:22:01
-Some are adamant the Labour plans -shouldn't have been promoted.	0:22:01	0:22:05
-But not Gwynfor.	0:22:06	0:22:07
-Phil Williams felt that Plaid -Cymru had to keep a distance...	0:22:07	0:22:12
-..so that people could see -it was Labour's beast.	0:22:12	0:22:16
-Gwynfor wanted to be supportive.	0:22:16	0:22:18
-He had an emotional tie with it...	0:22:18	0:22:21
-..and as a result, -we used the wrong tactics...	0:22:21	0:22:25
-..which partly explains -the disastrous result.	0:22:25	0:22:29
-I think the national party -was divided.	0:22:29	0:22:32
-Like Oliver Twist, -some were asking for more...	0:22:32	0:22:35
-..and kept asking for more.	0:22:35	0:22:38
-Some were also supportive.	0:22:38	0:22:41
-I think it's true -that the more support they showed...	0:22:41	0:22:47
-..the more fierce the opposition -to devolution within Labour became.	0:22:47	0:22:52
-The result wasn't unexpected.	0:22:52	0:22:56
-The number of valid votes of 'No' -was 71,157.	0:22:59	0:23:06
-The devolution cause -didn't just lose in '79...	0:23:07	0:23:11
-..it was destroyed.	0:23:11	0:23:13
-It meant that Gwynfor's -whole campaign...	0:23:14	0:23:17
-..from the beginning -of his political career...	0:23:18	0:23:21
-..had fallen apart.	0:23:21	0:23:23
-It was a shock.	0:23:23	0:23:25
-It was as if he'd been wounded -after that referendum.	0:23:25	0:23:31
-But within days, there was a chance -to gain political ground...	0:23:39	0:23:42
-..by pressurising a fragile -Labour Government.	0:23:43	0:23:46
-Three Plaid Cymru MPs -went to Aberystwyth to discuss...	0:23:46	0:23:50
-..whether to save Labour to secure -compensation for quarry workers.	0:23:50	0:23:54
-It was something we could ask for, -and Gwynfor was happy...	0:23:55	0:24:00
-..with the strategy of trying -to bargain with Labour.	0:24:01	0:24:05
-He could see how important it was -for Dafydd Elis-Thomas and me...	0:24:06	0:24:11
-..and for Plaid's profile...	0:24:11	0:24:13
-..when trying to get something -through Parliament...	0:24:13	0:24:17
-..that we gave it priority.	0:24:17	0:24:19
-It was a brave decision to accept...	0:24:19	0:24:22
-..where Dafydd El and I -wanted to go.	0:24:22	0:24:24
-Votes in quarrying areas like -Arfon and Meirion were crucial...	0:24:28	0:24:33
-..for the two Dafydds.	0:24:33	0:24:35
-Gwynfor knew that saving Labour -would be unpopular...	0:24:35	0:24:40
-..with his own supporters -in Carmarthenshire.	0:24:40	0:24:44
-It could mean losing the seat.	0:24:44	0:24:47
-But the President listened -to both Dafydds and backed down.	0:24:51	0:24:55
-In was a very wise decision -for the unity of the party...	0:24:55	0:24:59
-..but it cost him dearly -in Carmarthen.	0:24:59	0:25:03
-Labour was defeated, and we had -our first female Prime Minister.	0:25:03	0:25:08
-Gwynfor lost Carmarthen again...	0:25:09	0:25:12
-..and faced the darkest hour -of his life.	0:25:12	0:25:16
-888	0:25:24	0:25:26
-It seems that this period...	0:25:33	0:25:35
-..following the referendum failure -and losing his seat again...	0:25:35	0:25:39
-..was the lowest point -of his political career.	0:25:39	0:25:42
-In his late 60s, -Gwynfor began to doubt...	0:25:42	0:25:45
-..whether he had achieved -anything of value.	0:25:45	0:25:48
-Here, in his study in Talar Wen...	0:25:48	0:25:50
-..he decided that something -dramatic needed to be done...	0:25:51	0:25:54
-..that would shake the nation -to its core...	0:25:54	0:25:57
-..and encourage the youth -to take action.	0:25:58	0:26:00
-It was certainly a blow for him...	0:26:02	0:26:05
-..and he feared that it was -a setback for the Welsh cause.	0:26:05	0:26:12
-He was worried that the Welsh -were slowly dying, spiritually...	0:26:12	0:26:18
-..and he wanted to do something -that would rekindle the spirit.	0:26:19	0:26:25
-At one point he considered -a suicide act, of some sort.	0:26:26	0:26:35
-He had even decided that -the best time to carry this out...	0:26:35	0:26:39
-..would have been March 1st.	0:26:39	0:26:41
-This is a very sensitive matter.	0:26:45	0:26:47
-Many people have mentioned -Gwynfor's single-mindedness...	0:26:47	0:26:51
-..and that's true.	0:26:51	0:26:53
-But to what degree was Gwynfor -thinking clearly in 1979?	0:26:53	0:27:00
-I suspect that his mind -had reached breaking point.	0:27:00	0:27:05
-Everything that -was important to him...	0:27:05	0:27:08
-..the Welsh language, his Wales, -or his idea of Wales...	0:27:09	0:27:12
-..had been rejected.	0:27:12	0:27:14
-Fundamentally, 50 years of work -had been in vain.	0:27:14	0:27:19
-As Thatcherism demolished -old industries...	0:27:23	0:27:26
-..traditional values -were being questioned.	0:27:26	0:27:30
-Would Plaid Cymru need to adapt -to challenge this new enemy?	0:27:30	0:27:34
-Gwynfor Evans led Plaid Cymru -for such a long time...	0:27:34	0:27:38
-..because his values, -his principles and his religion...	0:27:38	0:27:43
-..coincided with the majority -of his party.	0:27:43	0:27:48
-He represented -the Welsh middle class.	0:27:50	0:27:53
-I don't think that class, -on its own...	0:27:54	0:27:58
-..could secure -the future of the Welsh nation...	0:27:58	0:28:02
-..without support -from the Welsh working classes.	0:28:02	0:28:08
-The succession became an issue -open for debate...	0:28:08	0:28:11
-..and Gwynfor's contribution -was sidelined.	0:28:12	0:28:15
-But salvation came -from an unexpected source.	0:28:15	0:28:18
-He would be able to carry out -a self-sacrificing act...	0:28:18	0:28:22
-..and the Home Secretary, -William Whitelaw...	0:28:22	0:28:25
-..gave Gwynfor that opportunity.	0:28:25	0:28:27
-Once again, the eyes of the world -would be on Llangadog.	0:28:28	0:28:31
-Whitelaw decided not to go ahead -with the Welsh channel...	0:28:31	0:28:38
-..and in a way, -this rescued the situation.	0:28:38	0:28:41
-He decided to go on hunger strike -over that issue...	0:28:41	0:28:45
-..instead of killing himself, -as he had considered doing.	0:28:46	0:28:51
-If the Welsh-language channel's -supporters were outraged...	0:28:51	0:28:55
-..the Welsh Office was stunned -by Willie Whitelaw's announcement.	0:28:55	0:29:00
-The first reaction was shock...	0:29:01	0:29:04
-..because this was totally -unexpected.	0:29:04	0:29:07
-The next reaction was anger -with the Home Office...	0:29:09	0:29:13
-..for doing what it did.	0:29:13	0:29:15
-I realised this meant trouble -with a capital 'T'.	0:29:16	0:29:21
-Seeing a party -that had just come into power...	0:29:22	0:29:26
-..turning its back on a promise -made before the election...	0:29:26	0:29:31
-..made people very angry -and very disappointed...	0:29:31	0:29:34
-..but also very determined.	0:29:34	0:29:36
-As the youth marched...	0:29:37	0:29:39
-..members of the older generation -also took action.	0:29:39	0:29:43
-Meredydd Evans and two others -were prepared to break the law.	0:29:43	0:29:48
-Gwynfor was informed of this.	0:29:48	0:29:49
-We wanted his blessing...	0:29:50	0:29:53
-..and I told him -what the three of us intended to do.	0:29:53	0:29:59
-He said, "Yes."	0:29:59	0:30:04
-"I support what -you're going to do...	0:30:04	0:30:09
-.."but I intend to do something -more extreme."	0:30:10	0:30:16
-It was time -to tell his wife and children...	0:30:16	0:30:19
-..about that extreme act.	0:30:20	0:30:22
-His intention was -to starve himself to death.	0:30:22	0:30:24
-My initial reaction was horror.	0:30:25	0:30:27
-I couldn't accept -that he would do this...	0:30:29	0:30:34
-..or accept losing him -in such a terrible way.	0:30:35	0:30:37
-I just put it out of my mind - -it wasn't going to happen.	0:30:38	0:30:41
-Although he was telling us -that it was going to happen.	0:30:42	0:30:45
-He thought that sacrificing -himself would be a spark...	0:30:45	0:30:51
-..to awaken a lifeless nation.	0:30:51	0:30:56
-He thought a big spark was needed...	0:30:57	0:31:00
-..to rekindle the nation's -desire to live.	0:31:00	0:31:05
-After discussions with the family, -he had to tell Plaid's leaders.	0:31:05	0:31:11
-Gwynfor told the party's -working group...	0:31:13	0:31:15
-..here, at Pantycelyn Hall...	0:31:16	0:31:17
-..that he planned -to starve himself to death.	0:31:18	0:31:21
-Discussions had already -started drawing to a close...	0:31:21	0:31:24
-..and some had already left.	0:31:24	0:31:27
-The Chairman asked, -"Any other business?"	0:31:27	0:31:31
-I'll never forget the day -when Gwynfor...	0:31:31	0:31:34
-..under "Any Other Business", in -his own way, stated his intention.	0:31:34	0:31:38
-He didn't confer, he stated -his intention to do this.	0:31:38	0:31:42
-I was gobsmacked.	0:31:42	0:31:45
-What was worrying -was that if Gwynfor had died...	0:31:45	0:31:50
-..what would the response -have been in Wales?	0:31:50	0:31:53
-We could have seen a backlash.	0:31:53	0:31:56
-The irony would have been if -people had turned to violence...	0:31:56	0:32:02
-..in protest at what happened -to Gwynfor...	0:32:02	0:32:06
-..whereas he himself -stood against violence.	0:32:06	0:32:08
-The idea that someone was willing -to lose his life over this...	0:32:10	0:32:15
-..significantly raised the stakes.	0:32:15	0:32:18
-It took people's breath away -when they heard the news.	0:32:19	0:32:25
-Every protest became a protest -in support of Gwynfor...	0:32:25	0:32:28
-..and against Thatcherism.	0:32:28	0:32:30
-I remember one protest, -in Rio Tinto...	0:32:30	0:32:33
-..when Margaret Thatcher -was in Anglesey.	0:32:33	0:32:36
-The protestors surrounded -the car and started shaking it.	0:32:36	0:32:41
-Thatcher was in the car. -It was a point of mass hysteria.	0:32:41	0:32:46
-A month before the fast, -at rallies across the country...	0:32:48	0:32:52
-..the support for Gwynfor -was overwhelming.	0:32:53	0:32:55
-Even one of his former critics -now applauded him.	0:32:56	0:33:00
-I've got a letter from -Saunders Lewis that states...	0:33:00	0:33:06
-..very clearly...	0:33:07	0:33:09
-..that Gwynfor had earned his full -and enthusiastic respect...	0:33:09	0:33:16
-..after deciding to fast.	0:33:17	0:33:22
-It was a sacrifice.	0:33:23	0:33:26
-This civilisation of ours...	0:33:26	0:33:29
-..is worth living for...	0:33:29	0:33:32
-..and worth dying for.	0:33:32	0:33:35
-APPLAUSE	0:33:35	0:33:37
-That is his strength.	0:33:38	0:33:40
-That is where he's at his best -and most effective.	0:33:41	0:33:44
-I supported him 100%.	0:33:44	0:33:46
-I went around speaking -at meetings with him.	0:33:46	0:33:50
-As I said, -that's where he's effective.	0:33:50	0:33:53
-A leader, taking the burden -of the nation on his shoulders.	0:33:53	0:33:58
-But the leader was also -a husband and a father...	0:33:58	0:34:01
-..who was trying to calm -the fears of his family.	0:34:01	0:34:05
-"My political contribution -has ended," he said.	0:34:06	0:34:10
-"This is what I can do."	0:34:10	0:34:12
-It was almost as if he wanted -this to reach its conclusion...	0:34:12	0:34:16
-..because he felt that this was -the significant contribution...	0:34:16	0:34:21
-..he could make.	0:34:21	0:34:23
-We said, "What about the family? -We want to keep you."	0:34:23	0:34:27
-To be honest, -he was almost excited about it.	0:34:27	0:34:31
-He could almost see his funeral...	0:34:31	0:34:36
-..with thousands of people there.	0:34:36	0:34:39
-He thought this would be -something big.	0:34:40	0:34:44
-As the protestors continued -their campaign, publicly...	0:34:45	0:34:49
-..three representatives -from the Welsh establishment...	0:34:49	0:34:53
-..also used their influence.	0:34:53	0:34:55
-Cledwyn Hughes, -Archbishop G O Williams...	0:34:55	0:34:58
-..and Sir Goronwy Daniel...	0:34:59	0:35:01
-..hoped the Government -would reconsider before the fast.	0:35:01	0:35:05
-When three people who are highly -regarded by all parties...	0:35:05	0:35:09
-..and all politicians -and the general public...	0:35:10	0:35:13
-..come and make a strong -recommendation to you...	0:35:13	0:35:16
-..you don't just listen carefully.	0:35:16	0:35:18
-It's much easier to say...	0:35:19	0:35:20
-.."They came, we've listened -and we are going to give way"...	0:35:20	0:35:24
-..than it is to someone who is -threatening to starve to death.	0:35:24	0:35:29
-In a sense, they let Gwynfor -off the hook, and us off the hook.	0:35:29	0:35:34
-When it was announced...	0:35:34	0:35:35
-..that there would be -a Welsh-language channel...	0:35:36	0:35:39
-..Gwynfor seemed reluctant -to accept his victory.	0:35:39	0:35:42
-His wife, Rhiannon, was emotional.	0:35:43	0:35:45
-She was in tears...	0:35:47	0:35:49
-..begging me to persuade Gwynfor -to end the fast.	0:35:50	0:35:55
-However, the announcement was made -and I was delighted...	0:35:56	0:36:00
-..but Gwynfor wasn't.	0:36:00	0:36:02
-He wanted more details.	0:36:04	0:36:06
-How much funding -would the channel get?	0:36:06	0:36:09
-"Good grief, Gwynfor," I said, -"leave that to others.	0:36:09	0:36:14
-"Today is your day."	0:36:14	0:36:17
-But as an astute politician...	0:36:18	0:36:20
-..on the crest -of a nationalistic wave...	0:36:20	0:36:23
-..Gwynfor suspected the victory -may have come too early.	0:36:23	0:36:28
-I saw a side to Gwynfor -I wasn't familiar with.	0:36:29	0:36:33
-I had known him for 20 years.	0:36:33	0:36:36
-Almost, selfishness...	0:36:36	0:36:39
-..but that's unfair because the -essence of single-mindedness...	0:36:40	0:36:44
-..is a total focus -on the horizon he has set.	0:36:45	0:36:50
-We have won the biggest victory -for the Welsh language...	0:36:51	0:36:55
-..not only this century -but for centuries.	0:36:55	0:36:58
-That is what brought it -to the tipping point...	0:36:59	0:37:02
-..and made it happen.	0:37:02	0:37:04
-Gwynfor's contribution -was vital to that.	0:37:04	0:37:08
-People said the "conshies" -were cowardly...	0:37:08	0:37:11
-..but this showed -that it wasn't cowardice.	0:37:12	0:37:15
-He was prepared to die for Wales -but not to kill.	0:37:15	0:37:19
-I think it was a mistake -and out of character for Gwynfor...	0:37:19	0:37:24
-..to make a threat of that nature.	0:37:24	0:37:26
-It wasn't appropriate...	0:37:27	0:37:28
-..for an honourable President -of a political party...	0:37:28	0:37:32
-..to use those tactics.	0:37:32	0:37:34
-In my opinion, a hunger strike -is morally unacceptable.	0:37:34	0:37:37
-It's the abuse of an individual's -life, by that individual.	0:37:38	0:37:44
-There's something pathological -about it, in my opinion.	0:37:44	0:37:48
-I'm not saying that was true -of Gwynfor...	0:37:48	0:37:51
-..but I would never justify -that path.	0:37:51	0:37:54
-Whatever the arguments -for and against what he did...	0:37:55	0:37:59
-..establishing S4C was a big moment -in Gwynfor's history...	0:37:59	0:38:03
-..and effectively ended -his political career.	0:38:03	0:38:06
-He did try once more -in Carmarthen...	0:38:07	0:38:10
-..but he had already yielded -the leadership.	0:38:11	0:38:14
-And as Gwynfor stepped aside...	0:38:14	0:38:16
-..the battle for the inheritance -started.	0:38:16	0:38:19
-No matter who won, -Plaid Cymru was going to change.	0:38:19	0:38:23
-A year after the campaign -for the channel...	0:38:37	0:38:40
-..Gwynfor's time at the helm -was over.	0:38:40	0:38:42
-A new generation was keen -to take the reins.	0:38:43	0:38:46
-Naturally, Gwynfor was concerned -about the party's future.	0:38:46	0:38:50
-To a degree, he wanted to make sure -his legacy continued.	0:38:50	0:38:55
-He accepted it was time -for change...	0:38:55	0:38:58
-..with a new generation.	0:38:58	0:38:59
-Gwynfor had been President -for 36 years...	0:39:00	0:39:02
-..so the party didn't remember -anyone else as President.	0:39:02	0:39:06
-One thing we had to establish -from the beginning...	0:39:06	0:39:10
-..was that we couldn't return -to Gwynfor's style of leadership...	0:39:10	0:39:14
-..where so much relied -on the work of an individual.	0:39:15	0:39:21
-More democratic structures -were used to govern Plaid Cymru...	0:39:21	0:39:25
-..in the period afterwards -than existed previously.	0:39:25	0:39:29
-It was a fight for the presidency -and a philosophical battle...	0:39:30	0:39:34
-..but which of the two Dafydds -was the former leader's favourite?	0:39:34	0:39:39
-Of the two rising stars...	0:39:39	0:39:41
-..many thought he felt closer -to Dafydd Elis-Thomas...	0:39:42	0:39:45
-..than Dafydd Wigley.	0:39:45	0:39:47
-But politically, -it was a relief for Gwynfor...	0:39:47	0:39:51
-..to see Dafydd Wigley taking -the leadership in the first term.	0:39:51	0:39:56
-ANNOUNCER: Dafydd Wigley, 273.	0:39:58	0:40:03
-APPLAUSE	0:40:03	0:40:05
-Finally, the party -had a new President...	0:40:12	0:40:15
-..but Gwynfor didn't find it easy -to step aside.	0:40:16	0:40:19
-He changed his mind...	0:40:20	0:40:22
-..deciding to have one more go -at capturing Carmarthen.	0:40:22	0:40:25
-He didn't want to stand again -in Carmarthenshire...	0:40:25	0:40:29
-..and he had said that to me...	0:40:29	0:40:32
-..so I had asked around, -searching for another candidate.	0:40:32	0:40:38
-That message got back to Gwynfor.	0:40:38	0:40:41
-Obviously, his decision wasn't -as final as I had thought...	0:40:41	0:40:46
-..and he was very disappointed.	0:40:46	0:40:48
-I remember a phone call.	0:40:48	0:40:50
-He said, "I might look -for another constituency, then."	0:40:50	0:40:54
-That hurt because I hadn't realised -he had reconsidered.	0:40:54	0:40:59
-He wasn't healthy and he found -canvassing was a burden...	0:41:00	0:41:06
-..travelling around Carmarthenshire.	0:41:06	0:41:09
-I felt it was the wrong decision -to stand.	0:41:09	0:41:13
-It was a huge disappointment -for him when he lost.	0:41:14	0:41:17
-Everybody predicted -he was going to win.	0:41:18	0:41:22
-People felt, because of S4C, -that he would win.	0:41:23	0:41:27
-What his decision to stand showed...	0:41:28	0:41:32
-..was his desire to keep going...	0:41:34	0:41:37
-..at a time when one would expect -him to turn his back.	0:41:38	0:41:43
-But he wasn't -going to lay down arms...	0:41:44	0:41:47
-..or loosen his grip.	0:41:48	0:41:51
-He wanted to keep going -until the very end.	0:41:51	0:41:56
-The salt in the wound -of losing Carmarthen...	0:41:59	0:42:02
-..was finishing third, -behind the Tory.	0:42:03	0:42:05
-Like the history -of many politicians...	0:42:06	0:42:09
-..the final chapter was a sad one.	0:42:09	0:42:11
-Gwynfor escaped -to the tranquil surroundings...	0:42:14	0:42:18
-..at the foot of Cadair Idris.	0:42:19	0:42:21
-The strain of the last four years -had taken its toll.	0:42:21	0:42:24
-He couldn't sleep, he didn't -want to see a living soul...	0:42:25	0:42:28
-..and he couldn't understand -why his stance over S4C...	0:42:28	0:42:32
-..hadn't given him -an electoral lift.	0:42:33	0:42:35
-The political disappointment -hit him hard...	0:42:36	0:42:39
-..and he could get very low.	0:42:39	0:42:41
-He wouldn't show us that -he could suffer from depression.	0:42:41	0:42:45
-They stayed in Meirionydd...	0:42:45	0:42:48
-..because he often felt that -the area around Dolgellau...	0:42:48	0:42:52
-..would allow him -to recharge his batteries...	0:42:52	0:42:58
-..and to find inspiration -to continue his work.	0:42:58	0:43:02
-Retreating to Meirionydd -soothed his soul.	0:43:02	0:43:06
-Later, they decided to leave -Llangadog...	0:43:06	0:43:10
-..but not to go to Dolgellau.	0:43:10	0:43:13
-When they left Llangadog...	0:43:13	0:43:15
-..the party organised a dinner -to say goodbye...	0:43:15	0:43:19
-..and there were tears in my -father's eyes when he was leaving.	0:43:19	0:43:24
-My mother felt the chapel and -some people in the village...	0:43:24	0:43:28
-..had worked against my father.	0:43:28	0:43:31
-I think she would have liked -to move to Meirionydd...	0:43:32	0:43:35
-..so this end of the county -may have been a compromise.	0:43:36	0:43:40
-They moved to Pencarreg, -near Lampeter...	0:43:42	0:43:45
-..but Rhiannon found out...	0:43:45	0:43:47
-..that she was suffering -from Parkinson's Disease.	0:43:47	0:43:50
-It was Gwynfor's turn to look -after the one who'd supported him.	0:43:50	0:43:54
-They had become one.	0:43:55	0:43:57
-They lived for each other.	0:43:57	0:43:59
-Mam had always lived...	0:43:59	0:44:01
-..to make sure my father -could carry out his work.	0:44:02	0:44:06
-That was her responsibility, -as she saw it.	0:44:06	0:44:10
-My father understood that, -acknowledged that...	0:44:11	0:44:16
-..and appreciated that.	0:44:16	0:44:18
-I remember my father saying -as a joke...	0:44:19	0:44:23
-..that she decided which car to buy, -which house to live in...	0:44:23	0:44:28
-..what food to eat, -and what clothes to wear.	0:44:28	0:44:31
-And he decided -the family's views on Vietnam...	0:44:32	0:44:35
-..and that sort of thing.	0:44:35	0:44:36
-They shared things like that -between them...	0:44:37	0:44:39
-..and there was some truth in it.	0:44:40	0:44:42
-They were kindred spirits.	0:44:42	0:44:44
-She was a nationalist -before my father.	0:44:44	0:44:49
-She wasn't sucked into his world. -She was already there.	0:44:50	0:44:55
-Tolstoy's wife said, -"Do you know what a martyr is?	0:44:56	0:45:01
-"A martyr is someone -who lives with a saint."	0:45:01	0:45:04
-That's what she was like.	0:45:04	0:45:07
-She was a martyr on his altar.	0:45:07	0:45:10
-After periods away from home...	0:45:10	0:45:12
-..he liked nothing better than -visits from his grandchildren.	0:45:12	0:45:17
-But there was a welcome -and advice for politicians...	0:45:17	0:45:20
-..who regularly called by.	0:45:21	0:45:23
-Gwynfor was someone -we looked to as a leader...	0:45:25	0:45:29
-..even when he had stepped down -as President.	0:45:30	0:45:33
-At the end of the '80s...	0:45:33	0:45:35
-..when we wondered whether the -party had done enough for Wales...	0:45:35	0:45:41
-..and the pressure was on me -to change direction.	0:45:41	0:45:44
-I was head-hunted for jobs...	0:45:45	0:45:47
-..in the industrial -and governmental worlds.	0:45:47	0:45:50
-I went to Gwynfor's home...	0:45:50	0:45:53
-..to tell him -that I was considering leaving.	0:45:53	0:45:56
-He didn't try to put -unfair pressure on me...	0:45:56	0:45:59
-..but the disappointment -in his eyes was obvious.	0:45:59	0:46:02
-When I drove my car -away from that meeting...	0:46:02	0:46:05
-..I knew I had to carry on.	0:46:05	0:46:07
-Good morning.	0:46:10	0:46:11
-And it is a very good morning -in Wales.	0:46:13	0:46:16
-Gwynfor lived -to see another referendum...	0:46:18	0:46:21
-..and to see Wales -getting its own Assembly.	0:46:21	0:46:24
-This victory means we'll have -a national institution...	0:46:25	0:46:30
-..elected by the Welsh people, -for the first time in our history.	0:46:30	0:46:36
-The Assembly was achieved -through the single-mindedness...	0:46:36	0:46:40
-..determination and reliability -of Plaid Cymru...	0:46:40	0:46:46
-..and the existence -of a radical Labour Party...	0:46:46	0:46:50
-..that was willing to implement -it as a lawful institution.	0:46:50	0:46:55
-It's a combination -of the two things.	0:46:56	0:46:58
-If it wasn't for Gwynfor's -determination...	0:46:58	0:47:02
-..the national party -would have disappeared...	0:47:02	0:47:05
-..or would have become so powerless -it wouldn't count in that equation.	0:47:05	0:47:09
-In his 90s, one difficult question -still bothered him...	0:47:10	0:47:15
-..having given a life's service -to his country and language.	0:47:15	0:47:19
-There wasn't much in his life...	0:47:20	0:47:22
-..but the thought that he was -the leader who had succeeded...	0:47:22	0:47:28
-..helped to keep him going.	0:47:28	0:47:30
-He wanted confirmation of that -almost every time I saw him.	0:47:30	0:47:34
-I would tell him -that he had succeeded...	0:47:34	0:47:37
-..and I think he did feel that...	0:47:37	0:47:40
-..but he wanted confirmation -that others agreed.	0:47:40	0:47:44
-# Gwlad, Gwlad	0:47:44	0:47:48
-# Pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad. #	0:47:48	0:47:55
-I've no doubt -that Gwynfor Evans...	0:47:55	0:47:58
-..was the leading Welsh patriot -of the 20th Century...	0:47:59	0:48:02
-..by a long way.	0:48:02	0:48:04
-He raised his party -from being some sort of sect...	0:48:04	0:48:08
-..into a proper political party.	0:48:08	0:48:11
-The climax of that work...	0:48:12	0:48:15
-..was astonishing victories -in the Assembly's first elections.	0:48:15	0:48:21
-It was Gwynfor's crowning moment...	0:48:22	0:48:25
-..and a tribute to his career.	0:48:25	0:48:29
-I heard that he watched the -service at Llandaff Cathedral...	0:48:29	0:48:36
-..and when Lewis Valentine's hymn, -'Dros Gymru'n Gwlad' was sung...	0:48:36	0:48:41
-..he was in floods of tears -and I'm not surprised.	0:48:41	0:48:44
-Here, at Carn Goch - a Celtic fort -above the Tywi Valley...	0:48:51	0:48:55
-..is where Gwynfor Evans' ashes -were scattered.	0:48:55	0:48:58
-As the Carmarthenshire -breeze carried the remains...	0:48:58	0:49:01
-..how permanent -was his contribution?	0:49:02	0:49:04
-Was Gwynfor the leading Welshman -of his time?	0:49:04	0:49:07
-How different is Wales today -due to his achievements?	0:49:07	0:49:12
-The answers will vary...	0:49:12	0:49:14
-..but the fact that the questions -are worth considering...	0:49:14	0:49:18
-..prove that the journey, -begun in Barry in 1912...	0:49:18	0:49:22
-..was astonishing.	0:49:22	0:49:24
-He changed the pattern himself.	0:49:24	0:49:26
-The influence of one person -changed the path of a nation.	0:49:27	0:49:32
-Obviously, more than one person -helped move that forward...	0:49:32	0:49:36
-..but without Gwynfor, I doubt -we could have moved forward...	0:49:36	0:49:40
-..in the second half -of the 20th Century.	0:49:40	0:49:43
-If you look at the growth -of Plaid Cymru...	0:49:43	0:49:46
-..in terms of membership, -in local and county councillors.	0:49:46	0:49:52
-It happened under the two Dafydds.	0:49:52	0:49:54
-They brought Plaid Cymru forward -to become the party for Wales.	0:49:55	0:50:01
-It was a limited and narrow party -under Gwynfor.	0:50:02	0:50:08
-Where would his place be in history?	0:50:08	0:50:11
-If it was a detailed book -and a big book...	0:50:13	0:50:17
-..he would probably get a footnote.	0:50:17	0:50:20
-There are two Gwynfors.	0:50:24	0:50:27
-On the one hand, -the noble and upright Gwynfor...	0:50:27	0:50:32
-..and on the other, the -self-centred, Messianic figure...	0:50:32	0:50:37
-..and Gwynfor, the weak figure -who made mistakes.	0:50:37	0:50:40
-In other words, -a man of flesh and blood.	0:50:41	0:50:44
-That's how we should -remember Gwynfor.	0:50:44	0:50:47
-There are interesting differences -between the Wales we have...	0:50:51	0:50:55
-..and the Wales he desired.	0:50:55	0:50:57
-We have a fledgling parliament...	0:50:57	0:51:00
-..and Plaid Cymru, -despite its problems...	0:51:00	0:51:03
-..is stronger than ever -in terms of resources...	0:51:03	0:51:07
-..and elected members and so on.	0:51:07	0:51:09
-It is a story of success...	0:51:09	0:51:13
-..under extremely difficult -circumstances.	0:51:14	0:51:17
-He felt that he had only just -managed to succeed.	0:51:21	0:51:26
-That he just managed to get the -boulder to the top of the hill...	0:51:26	0:51:32
-..but he felt he could say...	0:51:32	0:51:34
-..that he had, more or less, -achieved what he wanted.	0:51:34	0:51:38
-Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd.	0:52:08	0:52:11

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