Penny Smith The TV That Made Me

Telly, that magic box in the corner.

It gives us access to million different worlds,

all from the comfort of our sofa.

In this series, I'm going to journey through the fantastic

world of TV with some of our favourite celebrities.

They've chosen the precious TV moments that shed light...

Love this!

-'She's beaten the panel...'

-Look at that!

..on the stories of their lives.

Go on, Champion! Go on, Champion.

..like, "Argh!" "Ooh!"

Some are funny...

Oh, quite amazing! Unbelievable.

No, no, no...

..some are surprising...

Paddington Bear.

..some are inspiring...

-That's what kid should be doing now!

-Yeah!

Lay a ten-pence piece on a table with a bit of sticky tape.

Look at that! Stonking.

..and many...

..some turtles capsize.

..are deeply moving.

I knew that we were in the presence of history.

I am crying. I actually broke down into tears after that.

So come watch with us, as we hand-pick

the vintage telly that helped

turn our much-loved stars into the people they are today.

Welcome to The TV That Made Me.

My guest today is a TV and radio presenter, journalist,

newspaper columnist and she has also written a few novels, too.

Penny Smith spent 17 years as the face we woke up to

on breakfast TV.

The TV that made her includes a legendary double act...

LAUGHTER

..a handsome army officer...

You can't stay here.

What?

..and a fairytale ending.

"Must horses get their feet wet?" she said.

The beautiful, the delectable, the gorgeous Penny Smith is with us.

-Penny, are you excited about this?

-I am!

-Yeah?

I am because...

Well, I'm very excited about one particular clip

because it's one of those things that I remember being

so scared of, and yet utterly riveted by.

Today is a selection of shows that we are going to show you,

that you chose, that possibly made you into the person,

shaped you into the person you are today.

But first we're going to go back to the beginning

and see a little bit more of the young Penny Smith.

Penny Smith was born in Eastwood, Nottinghamshire in 1958,

but grew up in rural Rutland in Lincolnshire.

Dad Graham was a salesman, whilst mum Christine

looked after Penny and her three siblings.

So, does it take you back, looking at that?

-Oh, I had such a happy childhood.

-Yeah?

I loved it, growing up in the countryside in Rutland and

lots of cow parsley, lots of cows, sheep...

Grew up on a bicycle, virtually.

Bicycle, Wellingtons... I think I had three pairs of shoes,

we had the Wellingtons, you had your school shoes

and you had your sandals, and that was pretty much it.

In 1965, seven-year-old Penny could have been watching the future unfold

in Tomorrow's World,

Warren Mitchell airing his views as Alf Garnett

in Till Death Us Do Part

and Dudley Moore and Peter Cook's

surreal sketch show

Not Only... But Also.

So, we're going to have a look at a very early Jackanory now.

-Are you excited about it?

-Oh, yeah. Who's going to be on it?

-Some people were not quite as good as others, let's be honest.

-Let's be honest.

-You know, some people are better at reading out loud than others.

-Mmm.

Let's have a little look if this person's any good at reading out loud.

At present, their road lay across a huge brown bog

which was called Black Feacal's Bog.

-Oh, Bernard Cribbins!

-Oh, I know.

My goodness.

Brilliant Jackanory reader, though, don't you think?

Oh, lovely Bernard Cribbins.

Arabel had wanted to come this way

because she'd heard that there was a dinosaur's footprint

on a small hill, right in the middle of the bog.

What do you think the secret was to being a good Jackanory presenter?

Looking like you weren't reading it

and doing different voices.

If you didn't do enough different voices, it's always confusing.

You know, I wish we had a laser beam...

Jackanory was originally developed for a six-week run,

but became a continuous fixture for over 30 years.

During that time, a galaxy of famous faces

read us 650 different stories.

Many of them would return again and again.

A firm Jackanory favourite was Kenneth Williams,

who appeared in 69 episodes.

But that's nowhere near Bernard Cribbins' record -

he notched up 111 appearances.

Arabel was surprised.

"Must horses get their feet wet?" she said.

"Well, no, but sometimes they drop their shoes in the road."

"Oh, well, Mortimer will keep a look out for that, won't you, Mortimer?"

"Aaaaaak!" said Mortimer.

Probably that's what the really good storytellers did then,

-that they made the women different enough but without being silly.

-Yeah.

As long as they made it different enough and the accents different enough, it was always brilliant.

So, here the Joneses were,

travelling at 2mph towards Great Aunt Rosie in Castle Coffee.

They had phoned her and said they might be a few days later than expected.

-It's just all those little asides that sound like he's actually saying it rather than reading it.

-Yeah.

And they were the ones who were brilliant

and I loved fairy tales,

that mixture of scary and...

incredible castles and things turning into something else.

Quite a lot of people turning into frogs and all sorts of other things,

and talking dogs and snakes and all that sort of stuff, loved all that.

"I'll do the brushing!" said Arabel, eagerly.

"I'd like to do it!"

"Supposing its shoes need changing," said Mr Jones.

Oh, I would have loved to have done Jackanory.

-I'm the producer of Jackanory.

-Mmm.

I want you to come on and I want you to tell a little story for us.

What would it be?

Well, it it's the one that I can't quite remember what happens,

but it's the one where he goes down, it's like, I think there is a soldier

and he goes down and then there are three doors,

and he opens the first one and it's a dog with eyes like saucers.

-And then the next...

-So, slightly spooky?

Yeah, and then the next one, he goes down

and it's the dog with eyes like plates,

and then the third one is the dog with eyes like dinner plates.

Can't remember any of the rest of it, but it was really spooky

and I seem to remember there were deaths.

-That would be your choice, would it?

-Yeah, probably.

I quite liked the rather gruesome ones!

-I quite liked the Princess and the Pea as well.

-Yeah, why?

What in that appeals to you?

Because I always feel that I...

I always used to think that I was that Princess

and I'd be able to feel the pea.

-I want to take you back to that first decade, so...

-Yeah?

Tell us what your living room was like, your telly, your first telly experience...

Well, it was a house... The house was a bit boxy,

but there was a lot of garden and trees that I used to hang around in,

-and there was an apple tree where...

-So, very rural?

-Very rural.

The apple tree, I used to be able to hang upside down and put the book on the floor,

and then just swing gently whilst reading my book. BRIAN LAUGHS

Until eventually my knees gave out and I'd just collapse off,

and then spend the rest of the time under the apple tree reading the book.

The house itself, we had a hatch, which was very exciting.. BRIAN GASPS

-..between the kitchen and the dining room.

-Oh, yeah, that was very plush.

A serving hatch.

-And then the sitting room was... It had a big...

-Where was your telly?

The telly...Dad put the telly so far up the wall that you...

cos he didn't really want us sitting in front of the television.

He thought we should be going doing things,

like either helping him mend the car or bicycles or whatever else,

so the television was really... We all watched the television like that,

although actually when we were really little, like that,

and you could only poke it on with a stick. PENNY LAUGHS

It was that high up?

-Well, when you're little it was.

-Of course, yeah, yeah.

So we're there like that watching the telly. BRIAN LAUGHS

And, yeah, that was where the television was.

So, it wasn't really a particularly comfortable experience, really.

It was much better when there were loads of you on the sofa

-because you were bolstered by other people.

-Yeah.

And so it was a bit more comfy somehow.

So, did you have any TV snacks?

-Well, we didn't actually it on the sofa.

-No?

But for a real treat, before you went and actually sat on the sofa,

in the kitchen, my favourite...one of my favourite things were these sandwiches,

and when I say sandwiches, they were more like... My mum used to call them doorsteps or doorstops.

-No, doorstops I think she used to call them.

-Doorstops.

I want to make you feel at home now. I've got something for you. I've got it in the kitchen.

-Just wait there.

-Have you?

-I'll be back in a minute.

-Do you need a hand?

-No, not at all.

I've got something very special for you. Quite a coincidence you talking about doorstops.

-I hope we've made them big and thick for you.

-Look at...

-I tell you what...

-Yes, look at that.

That is gorgeous.

-So, it's the doorstep sandwich here.

-Yes.

What you do is you put virtually

-all of this cheese in a sandwich...

-Yeah.

-You do a proper...

-Good chunks, ladies and gentleman.

And it's got to...yeah. Good chunks.

Although if your mum came in,

-she'd tell you to make them slimmer than that.

-Cheese.

-Oh, you have to have a lot of cheese...

-A lot.

-..because it's a cheese sandwich.

Oh, that's nice and tangy.

-Mmm. Now, Mum made pickled onions..

-Yeah?

-..which blew your head off.

-Ah.

-But if it...

-Ah, well...

-Hold on a second, hold on a second.

-Hold on, I've got a poof here.

-This looks like... Is this...?

Tastes like marmalade. Oh, it's...oh!

-That's...

-Is that what we need?

-Yeah.

-Ignore that...

-No.

-..because we think that might be marmalade.

-Don't ever put marmalade in a cheese sandwich.

-No, it does smell like chutney, but it's quite...

Oh, look at those!

-Good, aren't they?

-Oh, that is a proper...

-Yeah.

So, you take your pickled onion.

-We won't be kissing anyone after this.

-No, no, no, we won't.

We had a pickled onion fork, which was very exciting. In the '70s...

Oh, so you cut the pickled onions up.

-Oh, yeah, no, you don't put the pickled onions...

-Yeah.

-Yeah, you want lots of pickled onions.

-Do you know what? I'm actually salivating.

-Are you? So am I!

-I know, I know.

-I've started to dribble! BRIAN LAUGHS

SHE SMACKS HER LIPS Right!

Let's move this cheese out of the way.

-Yeah, get this cheese out of the way.

-Yeah, yeah.

And what would you have with this, a cup of tea?

A cup of tea. A cup of strong tea.

-Cut it in half?

-Yeah, cut it in half.

-Into four...triangles? No?

-And also, you have to do this.

-Oh, yes!

-Squash it in there.

-Squash it right in there.

Squash it right in there and then, of course, that is...

This is where, at an early age,

you discover how to virtually dislocate your jaw.

-I am so...

-Do you need me to speak? Do you need me to speak at any stage for the next...?

-No, no.

-Right, here we go.

-No.

-Hold on a sec, here we go...

-Mmm.

-Mmm.

Mmm.

-That is lovely.

-Mmm.

So, let's move on to your next choice.

Something that terrified you, terrified me, The Singing...

Ringing Tree.

And it was, I genuinely was very, very scared of this.

-I don't know if it was because I couldn't follow it in any way.

-Surreal.

When I look back... At the time,

I probably didn't even know the word "surreal" when we were watching it,

but it was quite surreal.

People... All sorts of things happening.

I had no idea what... I had no idea...

-at any stage.

-This is plot, yeah, yeah.

-Yeah. No idea.

At that age, I just thought I didn't get it,

-but looking at it again, I realise that it was...

-Mmm.

-..weird.

PENNY LAUGHS

The Singing Ringing Tree was an East German children's drama serial

made in the style of the Brothers Grimm

and dubbed into English.

It's a story of the prince who was turned into a bear

as he attempts to deliver The Singing Ringing Tree to his princess.

-Oh.

-He's turned into a bear.

-He's been...made into a bear.

Look at him, poor thing.

Look at that. How awful to go out one day and be a prince

and then the next moment, you're a really bad-looking bear with a very funny face...

-BRIAN LAUGHS

-I know! I think they were sacked, they sacked the make-up department!

..and a tree! What on earth...what on earth was going on?! PENNY LAUGHS

What scared you so much about this? I know what you're going to say.

It's the troll that lives under the bridge.

-Oh!

-Oh...

-And there he is.

Yeah, he was scary.

I think we all look back and laugh and go, "Really?" but...

Yeah, but he was, he was a really scary... What's he going to do?

I mean, do you still find it scary?

-No.

-No, no!

-No.

No, but why did we find it so scary?

-It was awful, though.

-I think it's cos I couldn't follow it.

-PENNY LAUGHS

I don't think so!

See, I seem to remember it being everybody who came into contact.

As soon as you went onto the bridge, maybe that was the point, it was that bridge, wasn't it?

So, the bridge loomed large and it was about approaching it,

-and you just knew that something...

-I'm pleased you've cleared that up.

-..horrible was going to happen.

-Yeah.

So, the bridge and... And in my head it was a troll

and, of course, loving fairy stories so much,

-it didn't really matter that things didn't make sense.

-Yeah.

It was just about a general feeling, wasn't it?

I mean, you look at that and you go, "Oh, bless 'em." Look at it.

-TRANSLATION:

-Why do you threaten me?

It's not my fault the tree didn't sing.

You should have known the princess is bad-tempered and arrogant.

And don't forget, you know,

-we were a much more innocent bunch then, weren't we?

-Mmm.

It was a much more innocent era

and those sort of things were clever.

-And most of the...

-Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Anything transformation or where you become something else

-was always incredible.

-Yeah.

You look back at things like Doctor Who, for example,

and the Daleks, you know, not even remotely scary.

-Then, hugely scary.

-Oh, terrifying, yeah.

-Absolutely terrifying.

With a show like this, did you enjoy it scaring you?

-I think I probably did.

-Mm-hmm.

It was one of the highlights of my week.

I really looked forward to The Singing Ringing Tree -

-it was an absolute treat.

-Really? A moment of escapism..

-It was a huge treat.

-..that opened a window on the world.

It meant you could sit down for a minute and do something else, and just sit there and enjoy.

I'm moving on to your next choice now,

-something that possibly showed off your artistic flair...

-Ooh.

-..or something you were interested in.

-Oh. I loved...

-This is of course Vision On.

-Yeah, I loved Vision On.

-Yeah.

-I loved Vision On.

It was the most brilliant, brilliant programme.

You loved Vision On or you loved Tony Hart?

-I... Yeah, indistinguishable.

-Tony Hart was Vision On.

-Tony Hart was Vision On

and Morph and all those other sort of things,

and making things and the way he painted,

and all those other sort of things.

And then, of course, there was the Painting Wall.

With its mix of art, mime, sketches and animation,

Vision On was designed mainly but not exclusively for deaf children.

Tony Hart joined Pat Keysell for the second series

and his artwork caught the imagination of the young audience,

inspiring them to send their own work in to The Gallery.

Now, The Gallery.

Hold on a second.

How old's the person who did that painting?

Six? I don't think so.

That's about right, age-wise.

Oh, now that is good.

Now, kids will be going, "Yeah, move on, move on," whereas I'm actually glued.

I'm still glued. Look at that.

I could look at these forever.

There's a bit of glue on that one.

So, what sort of stuff did the young Penny Smith make?

-Everything, really.

-Were you into all that?

-I liked...you know, that sort of thing.

Vision On and Blue Peter, I was the person who desperately craved sticky back plastic,

but we didn't really have that sort of thing,

so I'd have to make do with masking tape

and drawing on the top of masking tape and everything else.

But I did cross stitch and sewed and I made things.

I was always busy making something.

-So, did you ever have ambitions to send something in to Tony Hart?

-Oh, yeah.

-Really?

Never did, though.

You were quite annoyed with some of those pictures, weren't you?

Well, I thought some of those pictures...

-I thought that they looked like they had had help from adults.

-Ah!

And I am quite fair-minded

and I don't think you should get help.

If it says how old you are then it should be all your own work,

and some of those...

There's no way that some of those six and eight-year-olds had done those paintings. No way.

But, there's no doubt about who made Vision On's artwork.

The show's quirky logo was designed by Tony himself,

who also created the iconic Blue Peter ship.

When Vision On came to an end in 1976,

Tony went on to host Take Hart.

And, in 1984, the show was refreshed once again

with new graphics as Hartbeat.

At its peak, it received up to 8,000 drawings every week

from budding young artists.

Penny, what we've got now for you is,

I can honestly say, hand on heart,

some children's pictures of famous celebrities.

None of them had any help.

They are from Glazebury C of E Primary School

and they did them especially for us.

This one is from William, aged ten.

Who do you think that is?

Famous celebrity.

-William, marvellous. I'm liking the teeth.

-Mm-hmm.

-They're particularly good.

-But you have no idea what it is?

No, and it is quite scary. There is quite a scary stare going on.

I'm sort of slightly confused about the hat business going on.

So, it's a little boy,

but it's really a little lady.

A little... A little boy who's really a little lady.

-Jimmy Krankie.

-Oh! Jim... Jimmy Krankie.

You see, I don't really...

-Ah!

-I wouldn't really know what you mean.

-All right.

-I bet you'll get this one.

-OK.

This next one is from Lila. She's nine years old.

Oh, Dame Edna.

-We've got Lila.

-That is brilliant!

-She's nine years old.

Here's your next one. This is Thomas, aged ten.

He's done this one here.

-Right, is that Bette Midler?

-No.

-Ah... Oh, that's quite a...

-It's a TV star.

-Quite famous for...

-Is it Judy Finnigan?

-No.

-Well, lovely, smiley, smiley face.

-Shall I give you an impression of her?

-Go on then.

-CILLA BLACK VOICE:

-Yes!

Is it? Oh, bless!

I wouldn't have said that Cilla's nose was quite

-that sort of...

-Off tilt.

-Yeah.

-Well, she's probably had some work done...there.

-PENNY LAUGHS

Here's the next one. This one's from Will, aged eight years old.

-It's good, isn't it?

-Oh, look at that.

-Is that...?

-I like the tie, I think there's a lot of effort gone into that.

-We've got his glasses on.

-Really? Is that Trevor McDonald?

-You are absolutely on the money. Congratulations.

-Look at that.

He's very smiley there. Look at him.

-I know, I know, well, he's retired in that photo.

-Yes, is he. He's having a lovely time.

-And finally, this one here is Finlay, who's aged 12.

-OK.

Now, the blue and the lanes behind give it a clue. Is it Tom Daley?

No. I think that's a bit of a red herring. That is just the backdrop.

-That is just the backdrop?

-Let's say he's sitting at a desk.

Sitting...at a desk.

-White T-shirt on there.

-A white T-shirt, is that normal attire?

-Mmm.

-Hmm.

-Quite high trousers.

-Is it Simon Cowell?

-Yes.

-It is.

-Do you know what?

I quite like that smirk that's going on there.

That's not bad at all.

-Did you enjoy that?

-Oh, they were lovely. I think there was...

Children done well, that's Glazebury C of E Primary School. Thank you very much.

And well done to you. I can confirm that you got 4/5.

Yeah, so you only got one wrong.

-Yeah, well done.

-Yeah, yeah, well...

-Oh, well, you had some help there, didn't you?

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

Oh!

-Poldark.

-Oh, the original!

-Really...

Look at him

And there she is, Demelza.

-Come inside.

-I see.

-"Come inside."

-Mmm.

-Ooh, yes, look.

-Very manly, the way he said that.

-Yes, very manly.

-And, look, she's got her...

-Oh, she's wiped her hands!

And do you know what I like? I like an apron.

He's very much up your street?

Do you know what? Still...yeah.

-You can't stay here.

-I don't understand, are you sending me away?

-Yes, it's better.

-But why? What have I done?

-Nothing, nothing.

"But why? What have I done? My goodness..."

Why must I go?

Is it cos of last night?

-I didn't mean anything...

-Oh, look and he's got a bow in his hair.

-Mmm.

-Oh, I like a man with a ribbon.

-Really?

Oh, there's something about a man in a ribbon. BRIAN LAUGHS

But I'm to be sent away like I've done something wrong, like I stole something?

-I'm doing this for you. Don't you see?

-No!

So, this is obviously the original Poldark we're looking at.

Oh, the original Poldark, yes, that was good.

But that's yours? I mean, we've only recently just seen this on TV, but for you...

Yeah, no, I watched the one recently. Far too slow. People doing slo-mo and all that sort of stuff

-and actually, Poldark himself, not beefy enough for me.

-Oh.

A bit too lean, a bit too...

No, you need a proper bloke,

who looks like he could actually carry you

across the marshes for quite some considerable period of time

without needing a horse. BRIAN LAUGHS

-I so wanted to go and live in Cornwall, stride around clifftops...

-Really?

..wearing that kind of outfit, like Demelza there, Angharad Rees.

-Had you read the books?

-No. No, no, no.

-Oh, really?

-No, no, no. Funnily enough, it wasn't the sort of...

No, I can't remember what books I was reading back then.

I went through a very, very pompous phase,

-where I read only very, very...

-Highbrow.

-..highbrow books.

-Mm-hmm.

Most of them probably I didn't...

Most of them, probably, I just read without taking in a word

but no, I didn't read the Poldark books.

I was too busy watching them

and that was just such a pleasure.

Look at her great hair.

-What is it about the Poldark story that you enjoy so much?

-Well, its...

Well, again, I can't really remember what on earth went on - no idea -

-except that there were love stories.

-Uh-huh.

There was love stories, there was intrigue.

It had everything I loved.

So, it sounds to me as if you wanted to be one of these characters.

-Oh, Demelza!

-Yes.

-Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

-Swept off your feet...

-Yeah!

-..carried across...

-Yeah!

Yeah, if anybody... Of course, if a bloke ever had tried to carry me anywhere,

I'd have said, "Put me down immediately. Stop it. Stop it now."

-"On your bike."

-PENNY LAUGHS

Comedy heroes now, Penny.

-The strawberry and cream of British comedy.

-Oh, right.

-Well...

-I'm not going to say anything. Let's just have a little look, shall we?

-Yeah.

The legendary, we'll have a little chat afterwards, Morecambe and Wise.

LAUGHTER

This...is one of my favourite scenes...of all time.

Oh, come on, Ernie!

LAUGHTER

THEY LAUGH

I love... PENNY LAUGHS

-It's still funny.

-Yeah.

-I used to fancy Eric.

-Did you really?

-Mmm.

I think just cos he was so funny.

I've got a pair of pyjamas like that! PENNY LAUGHS

APPLAUSE

Oh, yeah, the sausages.

-How brilliant was that?

-They were...

-I could watch that over and over and over again.

-It is harmless, wholesome, silly fun.

Very, very idiotic and just brilliant.

-There's something about watching your parents laugh...

-Mm-hmm?

..that is like nothing else.

You know, seeing Mum and Dad laughing away just made us laugh even more.

It was just so funny

and Dad, of course, trying to be Eric and Ernie...

-So you would all sit down as a family and watch this?

-Oh, it was absolutely family viewing.

-Yeah.

Morecambe and Wise were Britain's most popular comedy duo

for over two decades.

All the big names queued up

to appear on their shows,

such as Glenda Jackson,

Peter Cushing

and Elton John.

I suppose it's an obvious question,

but why are they so appealing, Morecambe and Wise?

-Do you think it's because we grew up with them?

-It's difficult, isn't it?

Because, of course, when you're...

Because childhood memories loom

so much larger in terms of what you found funny.

Quite a lot of the things, when you go back to them,

you go and look at them and you just go, "Really?

"Did I really like that?!"

I don't know...

I think Morecambe and Wise have stood up to the test of time

-because Morecambe and Wise were the first...

-Mhmm.

..to do that sort of thing.

-No swearing, no need to resort to any of that.

-No.

And just...

-I think it's the silliness.

-I agree.

-It's the silliness, the absolute...

-It is, it is.

They're like a couple of little kids and I think Eric Morecambe's,

-sort of, like a cheeky, little 13-year-old, isn't he?

-Yeah.

And, actually, clever.

Well, yeah, of course.

You know, I mean, comedy...

-They make it look easy and natural.

-Yeah.

-Yeah.

-It takes some doing.

Morecambe and Wise Christmas specials attracted

huge TV audiences.

But do they get the prize for the highest ever rated

light entertainment Christmas show?

At five, 11 million saw

Jim and Barbara argue over

whether to spend their Christmas

cash on a holiday or a

high definition TV box in

The Royle Family.

At four, Geraldine celebrated

her 10th Christmas with

the villagers in

The Vicar of Dibley,

entertaining 12 million.

At three, 15 million watched

Wallace and Gromit tackle

a murder mystery in

A Matter Of Loaf And Death.

At two, 19 million watched Raquel

leave Del in Only Fools and Horses.

And at one, yes, it's our

comedy duo with 28 million viewers.

But they share the winners' podium

with comedian Mike Yarwood,

whose show went out on the same day,

so it's a tie for the top spot.

Penny, it is now time for the ultimate Morecambe and Wise

-trivia quiz...

-Oh!

-..because I know you're a fan.

-Right.

-I'm going to give you a series of tough questions

-on the nation's favourite double act.

-Oh, my goodness.

-This is like... Can we have the lights go down...?

-Mastermind.

It is, isn't it? Yeah. Do-do-do-do.

Fist one, just to ease you in, OK?

What are they called?

-Morecambe and Wise.

-Correct.

Which of the two lads was famous for

having the short, hairy legs?

-Ernie.

-Of course it was.

Which British entertainer was

cruelly mocked by the boys for not being a very good singer?

-Des O'Connor.

-Are you sure about that?

-All the time.

-It was along with Andrew...

-Val Doonican?

-No.

Andrew Preview was the other one who

was a not very good conductor.

-Oh, that was a lovely bit, yeah.

-Andrew Preview.

"Not necessarily playing them in the right order."

In the 1978 episode,

which ex-Prime Minister made a guest

appearance on the Eric and Ernie Show?

-Ex-Prime Minister? Oh!

-Used to have a pipe.

-Harold Wilson.

-Yeah, he made a guest appearance.

-Harold Wilson?!

-That's the thing, they just had them all, didn't they?

They just had everybody, yes, exactly.

-Was he there in his Mackintosh?

-Hmm.

-Yes, exactly.

You were no-one if you weren't a guest

-on the Morecambe and Wise Show.

-No, no.

On the Morecambe and Wise Show, what was the name of...?

Oh, this is a tough one.

The harmonica player who never got to play a whole song?

Do you remember, right at the end, he used to come on and...

and they'd go, "You should go."

I know but what was his name? Was it...?

"Not now, Arthur!"

Correct.

Another tough one. If you know this, you must be a fan.

Eric Morecambe wasn't his real name,

took his surname from a town he grew up in.

What was Eric's real name?

-Eric...

-Bartholomew.

Oh, yes, it was! Well done, indeed!

And finally, what do you think of it so far?

-Rubbish!

-You got five.

-Did I?

-Well done!

-Yeah.

-Well done, me.

-You are currently an expert on Morecambe and Wise.

-Really?

You could be on Mastermind and that could be your specialist subject.

I could, well, as long as they only ask me those five questions...

-and ask me to do a routine.

-Oh, yeah.

-A Penelope Keith routine, mind you.

Would you like to have been on the show?

-Yeah!

-Yeah.

Penny Smith on the Morecambe and Wise Show, dancing.

-Yeah, I'd love that.

-Really?

-Anything. I am rubbish.

I did... I was Britney Spears for Comic Relief

and I blame it on the fact that one of the props fell on to my feet.

-I'd been practising for a week, properly...

-This was going out live to the nation.

Live to the nation and then I just I fell apart,

moved around rubbing myself, looking like a woman with hives, that was it.

What prop fell on you?

It was the phone, it was the one where she's being the air hostess.

So I had the phone like that,

I put it back and then the whole thing just fell onto my feet, so I...

With it being live...

It being live and then, of course, all these dancers and I was going,

"Oh, no, hold on a second, one, two, three, one, two, three, hopeless."

-I love dancing.

-Really?

-I'm first on the dance floor, the last to get off.

Love bopping about but, generally,

on my own or with somebody else there being stupid.

Couldn't see you on Strictly then?

I'd be pretty hopeless. I would be one of those ones who...

Everybody would go, "Oh!" They'd feel sorry for me. Yeah, I'd be hopeless.

You'd be like the comedy. The always have the funny one.

I'd be the comedy act, wouldn't I? I'd be the comedy act.

I'm moving on to your family favourite now,

something you all watched, obviously, guess what, as a family.

-Isn't that unusual?

-Yeah.

I'm not going to say anything but the brilliant Dad's Army.

Our escort can't get here before morning,

so we've got to keep these chaps all night.

Well, in that case, we'd really better really chop

their buttons off.

Put that thing away...

I just love him, Arthur Lowe.

They recognise authority when they see it. You'd better come with me.

Yes, of course. AUDIENCE LAUGHTER

His timing is impeccable.

And this was in an era when you didn't really want to be retaking

things because it was expensive and, apparently, he is utterly brilliant.

Oh, he's rather handsome.

# Whistle while you work Hitler is a twerp

# He's half barmy So's his army

# Whistle while you... #

Your name will also go on the list.

What is it?

-Don't tell him, Pike.

-Pike.

-That's the one.

-Oh!

The classic.

Dad's Army marked the beginning of a legendary TV

partnership between producer David Croft and writer Jimmy Perry.

In 1974, they created It Ain't Half Hot Mum,

starring Windsor Davies and set in India

at the end of the Second World War.

They then worked together on the holiday camp comedy

Hi-de-Hi in the 1980s,

starring Paul Shane, who they also cast in You Rang, M'Lord,

set in the aristocratic 1920s.

But David Croft did have the occasional misfire along the way.

Molly Sugden was cast as an old lady accidently

blasted into space in the year 2050.

Critics called it "the worst sitcom ever made."

Ouch.

AUDIENCE LAUGHTER

Look here, I've had about enough of you. You tell your men that

they've got to stay here for the night and they'd better behave themselves.

Now, get on with it.

What was brilliant was that you didn't know where it was going.

It wasn't obvious where it was going and there was always something

that was quirky in it that you just thought, "I didn't see that coming."

It's still superb.

AUDIENCE LAUGHTER

The fish and chip shop still open?

AUDIENCE LAUGHTER

Yeah, I think so, why?

Here's ten shilling, go and buy some for the prisoners.

Oh, right.

Oh, look at him. Oh!

You see, what a kind man. There he is, he's going

-to go and get some fish and chips.

-Yeah.

Each episode was beautifully crafted. It was superb.

-And your whole family loved this?

-Whole family...

Well, I don't know about whole family loved it, necessarily, but it

was certainly one of Dad's favourite shows and so it was a big time.

Again, it's that thing about seeing your parents laughing.

So Dad was laughing, Mum was laughing, so, therefore,

we were all laughing.

And that just... It gives it an extra fillip, doesn't it,

-when everybody is corpsing.

-Yeah.

And then when Dad, of course, would stride around

repeating various words.

So you're saying you watch it now, you enjoy it even more?

I enjoy it even more because I think I now know people like that

and, as I said, you know, we're all doomed.

My dad used to, obviously, shout, "We're all doomed,"

-as he burnt the toast or whatever else had happened.

-"Don't panic!"

"Don't panic, Mr Mannering, don't panic!"

Yeah, exactly, as we'd run out of pickled onions, it was generally

food in our house that was a, kind of,

"We're all doomed," or, "Don't panic."

Nothing of, whatever it was, was left in the house, therefore, you know,

"Don't panic."

So all those little catchphrases

and we were quite a family for catchphrases,

we liked our little catchphrases.

Did you miss the fact that there was no females in Dad's Army?

I never really thought of it consciously but, I think,

unconsciously I just thought I could have done with a female presence.

There was... Occasionally, you'd see Mannering's wife...

And, of course, you certainly had the long-running joke

about Sergeant Wilson and his relationship with

Pike's mother.

-But they never went past women in the trucks.

-No.

It was like a town deserted.

It was like, "You women? Are you women? Out, out, out!"

-Yeah.

-Yeah, odd isn't it, though?

-Hmm.

Your next choice is a series you enjoyed watching

but didn't let too many people know about this.

-Do you know what I'm on about?

-I do.

-Go on.

Now, it might seem odd that I didn't want to tell people that

-I liked this show...

-Yeah.

..but at school, I was seriously poor at science.

And so if I'd have confessed to loving this programme,

they'd have said, "Well, how come you're not better at school?"

-There we go.

-Let's take a look.

The tunnel that's now proposed enters

France 160ft below the inviting beach of Sangatte to the...

Horizon launched over 50 years ago with the mission to bring

the world's greatest scientists and philosophers to our screens.

How could such a tunnel be built in a given time for a given cost?

-Roget Massey.

-We hope so.

Ah, they're talking about the Channel Tunnel.

-Look at this, the Euro Tunnel.

-Yeah.

-This is when it was just a thought...

-Yeah, look at that.

..and let's get you on the beach in your suits.

And then, look, we'll just dig a hole here

and then we'll keep on tunnelling.

It was here that the prototype tunnelling machine

-of Colonel Frederick Beaumont was assembled underground...

-Oh, look at this, big machinery.

..and began to advance into the chalk.

-Cool.

-Are you still gripped by it now?

-Shh!

-Says it all.

PENNY: And then, I think, there was lots more of that boring machine

and it was huge.

And it's just... There's something about huge whopping

great bits of machinery.

My dad, as I mentioned, an engineer and he'd got this company

and got these whopping great bits of machinery, and the smell of oil

and swarfega and hot metal,

and men with goggles on...

Sweat dripping from their bodies.

-Hmm, yeah.

-Muscley.

-Yeah, dirty.

Dirty with just those small vests.

Yeah, with their hair tied back in a ribbon. Oh, hold on!

Straying into Poldark.

No, there is something about huge bits of machinery. I love...

-That you find interesting.

-I do, I can't help it.

I love all that sort of thing and going to the science museum,

for example, looking at how people went to space in tiny, tiny little

things that were barely bigger than a saucepan.

And they'd all squash in there and you can just imagine them,

cheek-by-jowl, I don't know, 20 hamsters in a cage,

all, sort of, squashed up together and everything

and then you've got these enormous great big things.

And I'm impressed by both of them.

I'm impressed by the fact that men can make something really small

that goes up or, in fact, even rather large and pointy going up,

when we're talking about rockets... Shush.

Or, of course, just massive whopping great things,

-with all these moving parts and teeth and cogs and, oh!

-Ooof!

Oh, screws and left-hand facing things.

Would you watch Horizon, you know, every week?

-Erm, not necessarily every week.

-No.

I think I was a bit older by that time, so I probably had

quite a lot of homework and various other things that I was doing.

But I loved going with Dad

and Dad, in fact, liked taking me around.

Before he had...

He had a big company making pylons and derricks

and various other things, huge great structures.

Before he did that, he used to take me around...

When he was a salesman, I used to go

and look at great big tractors and massive great bits of machinery.

And I was always there, just looking at them

and imagining what they were getting up to.

But there's something about that...

The creative element of it.

I think with creative it comes back to Vision On and Blue Peter

and making things.

Making things that worked and making things that did things.

It's all about being constructive, isn't it?

-I like things that have a purpose.

-Mm-hmm.

And you can't think of anything with much more purpose, for example,

than that huge great boring machine.

One of the very good things about Horizon,

they explained very complicated things in a simple form.

You know, visually...

This is something that you have to do, you know, in your job.

In the job, yes, I suppose you do.

Well, you have to talk as though nobody knows what you're talking about.

I mean, that's the whole point about news,

you're explaining something,

or you're getting somebody else to explain,

and having to ask the questions.

And I think that's another reason why I love being a journalist

because you're actually saying, constantly,

"I don't understand, tell me.

"I don't understand how this works, explain."

-Yeah.

-And I love that.

Penny Smith, can I take you back to your first broadcasting experience?

I want you to have a little look at a picture of you now at Thames News.

-There you are.

-Yeah, look at me having a lovely time

with Andrew Gardner, who was such a gentleman,

such a lovely, lovely man.

And I did love working at Thames News.

I used to go out in the morning and I used to do a story,

and then I had to come home, throw the editing notes into the editor

and then go and do the afternoon news at 3.30, and then I'd go and finish

off the item that I was doing,

and then co-host the six o'clock with Andrew.

And it was the most blissful, blissful job.

It was a really good time.

I did that for, I think it was a year I was at Thames News.

Did you come from radio to television?

-No, I went from newspapers first...

-Journalist.

A journalist on a newspaper first of all, the Peterborough Evening Telegraph, and then I went

accidently backpacking for two and a half years

-and worked in Radio Hong Kong in the middle...

-Wow.

..to get a bit more money to carry on.

And when I came home it was Radio Trent and then Border Television,

and then Thames News and then Sky and GMTV.

The lovely thing about Thames was

that it was a lot more newsy then Border.

Border Television, you had to...

We all got in earlier and earlier because there was only, generally,

one big real news story of the day. The rest of them were features,

and I loved doing features,

but it was always quite nice to do a newsy piece.

So at Thames News, of course,

we were talking about pretty meaty issues every day, which was good,

and it was also a much bigger news organisation.

What do you watch now on TV?

Erm, I suppose, it tends to be...

-I like comedy shows.

-Yep.

Erm, so, for example, Toast

and anything with Julia Davis in.

Perhaps more left of field ones,

Inside No 9, I enjoyed the first series of Inside No 9.

I've got the second series of Inside No 9 to watch,

those sort of programmes.

I love a good drama series,

Cranford, for example.

If I'm going through and I can't find anything,

there's usually something on BBC Four, there's usually

a series about something that I didn't even know I was interested in...

-Yeah, yeah.

-..that I'll suddenly go, "Oh, look at that."

Like, do you remember that one with the bloke

swinging around on the outside of buildings, where he was

looking at how buildings were made from way back when to now?

He went down The Lloyd's Building, inside and out,

looking at how they were made, how it all fitted together and those things.

-Engineering again, you see?

-And Guy Martin.

-Uh-huh.

When he did that series about huge great machinery, I loved that series.

And when he was doing the thing about being fast, I loved all those.

And, of course, I'm a news junkie, goes without saying.

News... News looms large.

-I watch it, I read it, I listen to it.

-Yeah.

It's just one of those things.

It will be with me forever because, of course,

I loved watching the news when I was a kid, as well.

Penny, thank you so much for being on. I hope you've enjoyed it.

-Loved it.

-God bless you and we'd like to thank you.

At this point, we'd like you to choose a theme tune.

Out of all the shows that we've seen today, I think

the one that I love the most still...

And the music will stay with me, Vision On.

Fair enough. My thanks to Penny

and my thanks to you for watching The TV That Made Me.

Here's a bit of Vision On.

MUSIC: Vision On Theme Tune by Claude Vasori