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-Make the most of this moment, -my son. | 0:00:28 | 0:00:31 | |
-You might never get another chance. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
-Carwyn James died in an -Amsterdam hotel on January 10, 1983 | 0:00:36 | 0:00:44 | |
-A man past fifty sees clearly... | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
-..the people and community -that shaped his life. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:58 | |
-A man past fifty asks himself... | 0:01:06 | 0:01:10 | |
-.."What the hell am I doing here?" | 0:01:14 | 0:01:17 | |
-A man past fifty sees clearly... | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
-..the people and community -that shaped his life. | 0:01:42 | 0:01:45 | |
-Nothing remains today -in the back of the mind... | 0:01:52 | 0:01:54 | |
-..except family, neighbourhood, -sacrifice and man's suffering. | 0:01:55 | 0:02:01 | |
-Man's suffering. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:05 | |
-I'd never seen anyone like him and -we'll never see his like again... | 0:02:29 | 0:02:34 | |
-..as a rugby coach. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:36 | |
-Think about it. -It's a thinking game. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:38 | |
-Boys, think on the field, -I can't think for you. Off you go. | 0:02:39 | 0:02:43 | |
-Like birds, out you go to soar. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:47 | |
-It was never a job for Carwyn. | 0:02:49 | 0:02:52 | |
-It was a life. | 0:02:53 | 0:02:55 | |
-They say life is what you make it. | 0:02:58 | 0:03:01 | |
-Not with everybody. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:04 | |
-There is evidence to suggest that -Carwyn kept a diary of his thoughts. | 0:03:08 | 0:03:12 | |
-The book has never been seen. | 0:03:12 | 0:03:17 | |
-The words in this programme are -pure imagination based on research. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:28 | |
-Why was I so lonely? | 0:03:43 | 0:03:45 | |
-HE COUGHS | 0:03:47 | 0:03:49 | |
-Damn it all. | 0:03:53 | 0:03:55 | |
-So lonely right from the very start. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:00 | |
-The family's soul was in Ceredigion. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
-They moved to Carmarthenshire... | 0:04:08 | 0:04:10 | |
-..to earn money -by digging for black gold. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:13 | |
-I was born and raised in Cefneithin -but my roots were in Rhydlewis. | 0:04:13 | 0:04:19 | |
-Visiting there during the summer -was like reaching the Promised Land. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:26 | |
-Reaching Moelon, -the farm where Mam was raised. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
-Reviving friendships -with the Rhydlewis boys... | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
-..and challenging them -to take the ball from me. | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
-"We might as well tackle the wind." | 0:04:37 | 0:04:40 | |
-Remembering carrying the warm hay -and wheat to the rickyard. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
-Far from the shadow -of the black pyramids... | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
-..the screech of the hooter and the -sudden wail of the ambulance siren. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:55 | |
-But who would I be -without Cefneithin? | 0:05:01 | 0:05:03 | |
-Without the primary school -and Gwendraeth. | 0:05:03 | 0:05:06 | |
-Without the rugby fields -and the coal mines. | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
-Without sharing a home -with Eilonwy and Gwen... | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
-..and Dewi, my big brother. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:16 | |
-Carwyn was born -in Cefneithin in 1929. | 0:05:19 | 0:05:23 | |
-Dewi James -Brother | 0:05:25 | 0:05:30 | |
-He was small. Very small. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:37 | |
-He had a light complexion. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:39 | |
-He didn't say much -but he was very thoughtful. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:43 | |
-I thought he'd grow up -to be a great man. | 0:05:43 | 0:05:47 | |
-The interest in rugby grew slowly. | 0:05:48 | 0:05:50 | |
-He was handicapped in rugby -because he was so small. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:55 | |
-Our garden and the rugby pitch... | 0:05:56 | 0:05:59 | |
-..were side-by-side. | 0:06:00 | 0:06:02 | |
-He'd sit on the fence silently. | 0:06:02 | 0:06:07 | |
-He just watched. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:08 | |
-He took everything in. | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
-He listened intently. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:16 | |
-He was a good listener -throughout his life. | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
-That was one of his secrets. | 0:06:20 | 0:06:24 | |
-He listened. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
-I'm not saying -he was the favourite child. | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
-Oh, no, we were equal there... | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
-..but I've lived in his shadow. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
-Unfortunately. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
-The pain I'm feeling now. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:50 | |
-It started then. | 0:06:50 | 0:06:52 | |
-Why did you go to the prayer meeting -at such a young age? | 0:06:59 | 0:07:02 | |
-Listening to an old man -ranting about sin... | 0:07:03 | 0:07:05 | |
-..whilst you heard -the other boys playing outside. | 0:07:06 | 0:07:08 | |
-But you wanted to be different. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
-Only you and the wind knew why. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:18 | |
-That's why -you were so painfully lonely. | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
-I am a man in morbid pain. | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
-I went to the Gwendraeth in '44. | 0:07:35 | 0:07:38 | |
-Carwyn was there. I'd watch him -side-stepping during break time. | 0:07:38 | 0:07:42 | |
-We became good friends. | 0:07:43 | 0:07:45 | |
-Sir John Meurig Thomas -School Friend | 0:07:48 | 0:07:52 | |
-He was very happy. -He was mischievous. | 0:07:52 | 0:07:56 | |
-He was always cracking jokes. | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
-He was a good man -to be in his company. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
-Yes, he was very popular... | 0:08:03 | 0:08:06 | |
-..with the girls. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
-He was a handsome man -and quite a character. | 0:08:09 | 0:08:12 | |
-Around the dinner table, he'd say... | 0:08:13 | 0:08:15 | |
-.."Look at that girl over there. -What do you think of her?" | 0:08:15 | 0:08:19 | |
-That's the type of thing he'd say. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
-A lot of people looked up to Carwyn. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:25 | |
-He could do so many things. | 0:08:26 | 0:08:29 | |
-He was a good cricketer -and a good footballer. | 0:08:30 | 0:08:34 | |
-He played for -the Welsh Schoolboys team. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:39 | |
-This was the year -before Cliff Morgan... | 0:08:39 | 0:08:41 | |
-..played for the Welsh Schoolboys. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
-Lance Roderick and Cyril Rogers -Cefneithin Rugby Club | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
-I remember watching him play -for the Welsh Schoolboys in Neath. | 0:08:52 | 0:08:58 | |
-They had letters -on the back of their shirts. | 0:08:58 | 0:09:02 | |
-He was so good. | 0:09:03 | 0:09:05 | |
-We'd look up to him -and try to emulate him. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
-If he side-stepped, -we'd try to side-step. | 0:09:08 | 0:09:12 | |
-We were in Form 1... | 0:09:12 | 0:09:13 | |
-..and Carwyn played for -the Welsh Schoolboys for two years. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
-He captained the team -in his second year. | 0:09:18 | 0:09:21 | |
-There's a photograph of Carwyn -and the French captain. | 0:09:21 | 0:09:25 | |
-Carwyn was 5'8" -and the Frenchman was 6'8". | 0:09:25 | 0:09:29 | |
-It looks like a man and a boy. | 0:09:30 | 0:09:32 | |
-He had a healthy laugh. -It was a pleasure to hear him laugh. | 0:09:35 | 0:09:39 | |
-Sometimes, he laughed with -gritted teeth. Look out then! | 0:09:39 | 0:09:43 | |
-He was very analytical -in his approach. | 0:09:48 | 0:09:53 | |
-He possessed a strong -analytical ability. | 0:09:53 | 0:09:58 | |
-He'd say, "Oh, that doesn't work." | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
-He'd give you the reasons -why it didn't work. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:06 | |
-He took great pride in his work. | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
-He loved the Welsh language -and Welsh poetry from an early age. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:16 | |
-Because of this, Miss Dora, his -Welsh teacher, was very fond of him. | 0:10:18 | 0:10:22 | |
-With her friend, Irene James... | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
-..they admired Carwyn -as a star of the school. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:30 | |
-He was very fond of Gwenallt. | 0:10:31 | 0:10:33 | |
-He was taught by Gwenallt when -he was a student in Aberystwyth. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:38 | |
-He thought the world of Gwenallt. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:40 | |
-Gwenallt was -a kind of mythical figure. | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
-He was his hero. | 0:10:44 | 0:10:46 | |
-When we strip off all our clothes... | 0:11:04 | 0:11:07 | |
-..the cloak of respectability -and wise knowledge... | 0:11:07 | 0:11:10 | |
-..the cloth of culture -and silks of learning... | 0:11:11 | 0:11:14 | |
-..the soul is so destitute, -the exposed impurity. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:18 | |
-I first met Carwyn when he was a -student at Aberystwyth University... | 0:11:47 | 0:11:52 | |
-..in 1948. | 0:11:52 | 0:11:54 | |
-He was a charming young man -and wonderful company. | 0:11:54 | 0:11:59 | |
-We became great friends -from then on. | 0:12:00 | 0:12:04 | |
-He was a very talented academic. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:23 | |
-The Welsh language -was important to him... | 0:12:24 | 0:12:26 | |
-..as a Welsh speaker -and nationalist. | 0:12:27 | 0:12:29 | |
-He joined Plaid Cymru. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
-He was President of Plaid Cymru -in the university that year. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:37 | |
-Carwyn was a member -of the rugby team - and a star. | 0:12:40 | 0:12:43 | |
-He won admiration -and became a hero... | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
-..in a way the rest of us -in the department weren't. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:53 | |
-He was a handsome man. | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
-The girls were after him -all the time. | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
-He was forever -going out with the girls. | 0:13:01 | 0:13:03 | |
-The Carwyn I knew -was very fond of girls... | 0:13:04 | 0:13:09 | |
-..and girls were very fond of him. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
-"Wales gave the Cardi his morality. | 0:13:42 | 0:13:45 | |
-"She raised him -above the devilment of sex. | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
-"It is difficult to follow -one of Wales's paths | 0:13:51 | 0:13:54 | |
-"Without encountering rules -that challenge God." | 0:13:54 | 0:13:58 | |
-Prosser Rhys, the gay poet, crowned. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:13 | |
-This poem wasn't available -when I was in the Gwendraeth. | 0:14:14 | 0:14:18 | |
-Miss Dora. | 0:14:19 | 0:14:20 | |
-What would she have said -about sordidness of sex? | 0:14:21 | 0:14:24 | |
-Avoid the issue -and blush like a beetroot. | 0:14:27 | 0:14:30 | |
-I wish I'd have asked Gwenallt... | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
-..what he meant -by the sordidness of sex. | 0:14:33 | 0:14:37 | |
-I'd be too ashamed to ask him. | 0:14:43 | 0:14:45 | |
-I'd blush like a beetroot, too. | 0:14:47 | 0:14:49 | |
-Damn it. | 0:14:51 | 0:14:52 | |
-Why? | 0:14:59 | 0:15:00 | |
-Why the hell do we need shame? | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
-Why? | 0:15:08 | 0:15:10 | |
-. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:17 | |
-888 | 0:15:22 | 0:15:22 | |
-888 - -888 | 0:15:22 | 0:15:24 | |
-If Carwyn jumped over the hedge -and started training on his own... | 0:15:31 | 0:15:35 | |
-..I'd forget -the bruises and the bangs... | 0:15:35 | 0:15:38 | |
-..and get my kit on again -and kick about and watch him. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:42 | |
-I've learnt many useful things -from Carwyn from his style of play. | 0:15:42 | 0:15:46 | |
-Take your time, there's no hurry. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:48 | |
-If you get 30 people on the field -chasing everywhere... | 0:15:48 | 0:15:52 | |
-..you only need one with a bit -of calmness to do a lot of damage. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:57 | |
-He was a hero to us all. | 0:16:03 | 0:16:05 | |
-When he'd come home during -the holidays, he'd go training. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:10 | |
-Carwyn would laugh -if he heard me say training. | 0:16:10 | 0:16:13 | |
-He'd kick the ball three times -and then out came the fag. | 0:16:13 | 0:16:17 | |
-He'd kick the ball and pass the ball -with us. He'd be gone in 15 minutes. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
-When he played for Llanelli, -that was important. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
-In the mid-1950s, -we didn't have a TV set. | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
-You saw his name in the newspaper -and heard him on the radio. | 0:16:29 | 0:16:33 | |
-He was a giant -within a small group of people. | 0:16:33 | 0:16:36 | |
-When he won his first cap, in '58... | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
-..against Australia... | 0:16:41 | 0:16:43 | |
-..the place erupted - everyone said -we now had an important person. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
-I first played with Carwyn when -we turned out for Llanelli in '58. | 0:16:50 | 0:16:55 | |
-He was an excellent outside-half. | 0:16:55 | 0:16:59 | |
-He was a good runner -and a good passer. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:02 | |
-Dummy passes, a great side-stepper. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:07 | |
-He was one of the best kickers -I ever played with. | 0:17:08 | 0:17:13 | |
-Unfortunately, his playing career... | 0:17:15 | 0:17:18 | |
-..ran alongside Cliff Morgan's. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
-It was very unfortunate. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:24 | |
-He deserved more than two caps. | 0:17:24 | 0:17:27 | |
-The first was against Australia -when Cliff was injured. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:31 | |
-He won that game with a drop goal. | 0:17:31 | 0:17:34 | |
-He was an expert at drop goals. | 0:17:35 | 0:17:37 | |
-Gwyn Evans to Carwyn. It's a drop -at goal and a very good try. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:43 | |
-And it's over. And it's over. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:45 | |
-For his second cap, -Cliff was back at outside-half... | 0:17:46 | 0:17:50 | |
-..but Carwyn played in the centre. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
-A centre -who doesn't like to tackle. | 0:17:54 | 0:17:57 | |
-There was no point -in him being there and we lost. | 0:17:57 | 0:18:00 | |
-Carwyn would say, -"Two caps - I'll take that." | 0:18:00 | 0:18:04 | |
-If someone had said he'd win two -caps at the start of his career... | 0:18:04 | 0:18:09 | |
-..he would have taken that gladly. | 0:18:09 | 0:18:12 | |
-That's the way he was. | 0:18:12 | 0:18:14 | |
-He would look at the positives. -He'd won two caps. | 0:18:14 | 0:18:18 | |
-He didn't sulk -because he should have won more. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:21 | |
-The experiences -of the big game are mixed. | 0:18:30 | 0:18:34 | |
-To me, it was a moment -of sheer happiness, of ecstasy... | 0:18:34 | 0:18:38 | |
-..when I heard my name -for the first time... | 0:18:38 | 0:18:41 | |
-..as part of -the XV to represent Wales. | 0:18:41 | 0:18:44 | |
-Whenever there's excitement -in the air... | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
-..the two moods - -happy and anxious... | 0:18:49 | 0:18:52 | |
-..conflict cruelly. | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
-Walking from the hotel -to the changing rooms. | 0:18:59 | 0:19:01 | |
-Thousands on the streets, -dozens greet you. | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
-"Do your best. -Good luck. How's it to be?" | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
-A thrilling and terrible experience -at the same time. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:17 | |
-Today, so scared and so nervous. | 0:19:20 | 0:19:24 | |
-So small. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
-There's a hand on my shoulder. | 0:19:42 | 0:19:43 | |
-Rees Stephens's voice -breaks my train of thought... | 0:19:44 | 0:19:47 | |
-..and the sound of the 60,000. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
-He says... | 0:19:49 | 0:19:51 | |
-"Make the most of this moment, -my son. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
-"You might never get -another chance." | 0:19:56 | 0:19:58 | |
-Carwyn made a promise. | 0:20:08 | 0:20:10 | |
-When he left Llanelli as a player... | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
-..he would play for a season -in Cefneithin. | 0:20:13 | 0:20:15 | |
-He kept his promise. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:18 | |
-He played for us - he finished -playing for Llanelli in '59-'60. | 0:20:20 | 0:20:24 | |
-He played for us -for a season in '60-'61. | 0:20:24 | 0:20:27 | |
-He'd played for Llanelli and -London Welsh and all these teams. | 0:20:27 | 0:20:32 | |
-We looked forward to him -returning to play for the village. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:37 | |
-It was something special. | 0:20:37 | 0:20:39 | |
-He had a good brain. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
-He was two or three moves -ahead of everyone else. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:47 | |
-He had a great dummy pass. | 0:20:48 | 0:20:50 | |
-Clive Thomas - I was talking -to Clive about a month ago. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:56 | |
-I asked him -if he remembered the dummy pass. | 0:20:56 | 0:20:59 | |
-Carwyn threw the dummy... | 0:20:59 | 0:21:01 | |
-..Clive caught the 'ball' -and dived over without the ball... | 0:21:01 | 0:21:04 | |
-..while Carwyn -scored under the posts. | 0:21:04 | 0:21:07 | |
-His credo was -that rugby is a simple game. | 0:21:07 | 0:21:12 | |
-Play it simply, everything is -simple and let the ball do the work. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:16 | |
-Everyone needed self-discipline. | 0:21:17 | 0:21:20 | |
-He wanted everyone -to be proud of their kit... | 0:21:20 | 0:21:27 | |
-..on the pitch and off the pitch. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:29 | |
-If you were tidy walking on to -the pitch, everyone played better. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:34 | |
-We had to wash our bootlaces... | 0:21:35 | 0:21:38 | |
-..iron creases into our shorts... | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
-..and clean the boots with polish -before walking on the pitch. | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
-We'd line up -and he'd walk like a sergeant major. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:50 | |
-You'd see the boys who played in the -team, colliers and manual workers... | 0:21:50 | 0:21:56 | |
-..they were inspected -before they took to the field. | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
-We didn't lose a single game -throughout that season. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
-CHORAL SINGING | 0:22:11 | 0:22:13 | |
-I'd say his happiest time... | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
-..was when he was relatively young -in Llandovery. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:36 | |
-He was single. -He didn't have a family. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:42 | |
-His mind was focused on the college. | 0:22:42 | 0:22:45 | |
-Life in a boarding school -is a full life. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:51 | |
-Life in the college -filled his entire life. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:57 | |
-He didn't have much time to himself, -to be honest. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:02 | |
-The college was his life. | 0:23:03 | 0:23:06 | |
-He was very much a born teacher. | 0:23:08 | 0:23:10 | |
-He had tremendous gifts -of communication to young people. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:15 | |
-Because he was so passionate -about the wider world... | 0:23:16 | 0:23:19 | |
-..and internationalism... | 0:23:20 | 0:23:22 | |
-..he communicated that -very strongly to us. | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
-We were all quite influenced -at the time... | 0:23:25 | 0:23:28 | |
-..in terms of thinking beyond Wales, -beyond nationalism... | 0:23:28 | 0:23:33 | |
-..to the bigger picture -of internationalism. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
-He was a wonderful man. The -children thought the world of him. | 0:23:36 | 0:23:40 | |
-It was interesting for me -as a young boy. | 0:23:45 | 0:23:47 | |
-I knew he played for Llanelli. | 0:23:48 | 0:23:52 | |
-He was a star... | 0:23:52 | 0:23:54 | |
-..but he played every Tuesday -out on the pitch. | 0:23:54 | 0:24:00 | |
-The master played with the boys. | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
-We had a special coach in -the college from 1927 until 1967. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:10 | |
-T P Williams. | 0:24:10 | 0:24:11 | |
-Everyone called him Pope. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
-Carwyn learned so much from Pope. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
-What a coach! Magnificent. | 0:24:19 | 0:24:22 | |
-He knew everything about the game. | 0:24:22 | 0:24:25 | |
-Carwyn's apprenticeship -was with him. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:28 | |
-He loved to see the ball moving. | 0:24:31 | 0:24:33 | |
-"The ball moves faster -than the player." | 0:24:33 | 0:24:37 | |
-That was the theory. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:39 | |
-He didn't look after himself. | 0:24:47 | 0:24:51 | |
-He smoked. -I've never seen such a thing. | 0:24:52 | 0:24:55 | |
-If his meals hadn't been -prepared for him... | 0:24:55 | 0:24:58 | |
-..I think he would have starved. | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
-Money meant nothing to him. | 0:25:01 | 0:25:04 | |
-As boys, we looked after him. | 0:25:07 | 0:25:09 | |
-He would come in -after having a few gin and tonics. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
-We would wake him up -in the morning... | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
-..to make sure -he was down for breakfast. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:19 | |
-He had no-one else. | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
-We did wonder about his sexuality... | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
-..but I would think that it was... | 0:25:32 | 0:25:34 | |
-..that was a very, -um, hidden part of his life. | 0:25:35 | 0:25:38 | |
-I would imagine -that in the climate of the times... | 0:25:38 | 0:25:41 | |
-..that it was not something -that could ever be spoken about. | 0:25:42 | 0:25:46 | |
-"The imagination of a boy -is healthy. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
-"The mature imagination -of a man is healthy. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:53 | |
-"But there is a space -of life between... | 0:25:54 | 0:25:57 | |
-.."in which the soul -is in ferment." | 0:25:57 | 0:25:59 | |
-The space of life between. | 0:26:00 | 0:26:02 | |
-That's where I am. | 0:26:04 | 0:26:06 | |
-In the middle of this ferment. | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
-The pain. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:11 | |
-The pain is fiendish. | 0:26:13 | 0:26:15 | |
-Never-ending. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:18 | |
-Like entering the furnace of hell. | 0:26:18 | 0:26:21 | |
-. | 0:26:28 | 0:26:28 | |
-888 | 0:26:34 | 0:26:34 | |
-888 - -888 | 0:26:34 | 0:26:36 | |
-He didn't join Llanelli -until the end of the '60s. | 0:26:46 | 0:26:50 | |
-Everyone was surprised. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
-Who was this man, Carwyn James... | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
-..who was coming to coach Llanelli? | 0:26:55 | 0:26:58 | |
-Everything changed. | 0:27:02 | 0:27:04 | |
-Spirits lifted -when he arrived at Stradey Park. | 0:27:04 | 0:27:07 | |
-The team improved. | 0:27:07 | 0:27:09 | |
-We won more games under Carwyn -than we used to win. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:13 | |
-He was very quiet - -he never shouted. | 0:27:13 | 0:27:16 | |
-He organized the team. | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
-He could handle the players -better than anyone I've ever seen. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:23 | |
-Just straighten your knees -and you'll get that forward thrust. | 0:27:23 | 0:27:27 | |
-Just bend them slightly - -we'll watch it this time. | 0:27:27 | 0:27:31 | |
-Carwyn seemed to be -30 years ahead of everyone else... | 0:27:31 | 0:27:35 | |
-..in the way he coached. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:37 | |
-What people are doing now, -Carwyn was doing years ago. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
-Ready, now. | 0:27:43 | 0:27:44 | |
-Good one. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
-Good one. - -Thank you. Well done. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:49 | |
-One of the first games he had -was Llanelli against South Africa. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:59 | |
-He opposed apartheid. -He didn't want to see them playing. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:05 | |
-Naturally, we prepare -differently for all teams. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
-We have some tactics in mind -for the Springboks. | 0:28:11 | 0:28:15 | |
-We know their strengths -and weaknesses. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:19 | |
-Out to the full-back Jones. Jones -has got his captain outside him. | 0:28:19 | 0:28:24 | |
-Will he pass? Can he? He gets -the ball. It's Richards. What a try! | 0:28:24 | 0:28:28 | |
-What a score! | 0:28:28 | 0:28:30 | |
-Many of these people believe that -politics shouldn't enter into sport. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:36 | |
-I don't go along -with this kind of thinking... | 0:28:36 | 0:28:40 | |
-..but again, I don't feel that -I should go up to every player... | 0:28:40 | 0:28:45 | |
-..and say, "Look, these are -my views - they're strong views." | 0:28:45 | 0:28:49 | |
-Butler has scored. | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
-He couldn't stay away. -His heart was in it. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:56 | |
-He'd coached the team for months. | 0:28:57 | 0:28:59 | |
-Carwyn stayed in the changing rooms. | 0:29:00 | 0:29:03 | |
-He was years ahead of his time. | 0:29:05 | 0:29:07 | |
-I think they made a wise decision -to choose him as the Lions coach. | 0:29:07 | 0:29:12 | |
-One, take one. | 0:29:13 | 0:29:15 | |
-What is the process of management -selection for a Lions tour? | 0:29:16 | 0:29:20 | |
-About three or four of us -went to London for an interview. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:24 | |
-We were grilled -on the technicalities... | 0:29:25 | 0:29:28 | |
-..and the tactical side -of the game... | 0:29:28 | 0:29:31 | |
-..by the four home unions -tours' committee. | 0:29:31 | 0:29:34 | |
-There were about -at least a dozen of them there. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:38 | |
-It was a pretty gruelling interview -as I remember it. | 0:29:38 | 0:29:41 | |
-The most potent question for me -was the very last one. | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
-In a few weeks, I was standing -for Parliament at Llanelli. | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
-They put it to me, "Well, if you -are standing for Parliament... | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
-.."really, what are your chances?" | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
-I said, "Before I came up here -this morning... | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
-.."the odds the local bookmaker -had given... | 0:30:02 | 0:30:05 | |
-.."I was quoted at 100/1 against." | 0:30:05 | 0:30:10 | |
-So they all laughed -and they disregarded all that. | 0:30:10 | 0:30:15 | |
-Ecstatic happiness. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
-And then, in a moment, -sadness on realizing... | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
-..that living in an excited state... | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
-..fleeting -are these precious moments... | 0:30:35 | 0:30:39 | |
-..which you cannot revive. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:41 | |
-There's a very fine line -between laughter and tears... | 0:30:44 | 0:30:49 | |
-..between paradise and hell... | 0:30:49 | 0:30:52 | |
-..between the comic and tragic. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:54 | |
-Like Anton Chekov -drinking champagne on his deathbed. | 0:30:56 | 0:31:01 | |
-There was an ambience -about the bloke. | 0:31:11 | 0:31:14 | |
-He was friendly - no favourites. | 0:31:14 | 0:31:16 | |
-Undoubtedly, he was something -different and was right at the time. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:21 | |
-He was more... | 0:31:21 | 0:31:24 | |
-..more of an academic coach. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:27 | |
-I think Carwyn and Doug -in particular... | 0:31:29 | 0:31:32 | |
-..the year before the tour... | 0:31:33 | 0:31:34 | |
-..put a lot of effort -into what they wanted... | 0:31:34 | 0:31:37 | |
-..what they were up against -and they did their homework... | 0:31:37 | 0:31:41 | |
-..so that what we had to do... | 0:31:42 | 0:31:43 | |
-..was what he expected us to do - -and that was play rugby. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:47 | |
-Carwyn had pencilled in -the first six teams... | 0:31:50 | 0:31:55 | |
-..on the plane out to New Zealand. | 0:31:57 | 0:32:00 | |
-He was giving everyone a game -and making sure everyone played. | 0:32:00 | 0:32:04 | |
-Carwyn was quiet, unobtrusive. | 0:32:06 | 0:32:09 | |
-Most of his coaching -was done at the dining table... | 0:32:09 | 0:32:12 | |
-..where he would get inside you -and find out what you believed... | 0:32:12 | 0:32:17 | |
-..how you thought rugby should be -played, what was your contribution. | 0:32:17 | 0:32:21 | |
-He had the same relationship with -Barry, with Gareth and Willie John. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:27 | |
-All these top men in world rugby - -and he talked to them about rugby... | 0:32:27 | 0:32:31 | |
-..and give them the impression -he wants to learn. | 0:32:31 | 0:32:35 | |
-He retained what they said -and he would put it into practice. | 0:32:35 | 0:32:39 | |
-I would often hear a knock -at my hotel room door... | 0:32:39 | 0:32:43 | |
-..and open it to see -Carwyn standing there. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
-"I want a chat." -He'd come in to have a chat. | 0:32:47 | 0:32:51 | |
-Or he'd invite you out for a meal. | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
-What about the language? -Is it a problem? | 0:32:54 | 0:32:57 | |
-You have a number of Welsh speakers. | 0:32:58 | 0:33:00 | |
-About seven or eight speak Welsh. | 0:33:01 | 0:33:05 | |
-We speak Welsh to each other -when we're in each other's company. | 0:33:05 | 0:33:12 | |
-The point is, it comes naturally, -and the others realize that. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:17 | |
-He didn't speak Welsh -when the others were around... | 0:33:18 | 0:33:21 | |
-..but he needed -about half an hour every day... | 0:33:22 | 0:33:26 | |
-..in the company -of myself, Gerald, Barry and Gareth. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:31 | |
-About six of us spoke Welsh. | 0:33:31 | 0:33:33 | |
-He would end every day -by speaking Welsh to us. | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
-He would always smile -when he spoke Welsh. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:42 | |
-He liked Delme -and felt Delme was a... | 0:33:43 | 0:33:46 | |
-What shall I say? | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
-A big soft Mama's boy -who would need looking after. | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
-Not that he was a soft man in -rugby terms or anything like that. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
-Carwyn enjoyed that. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:02 | |
-He enjoyed caring for people -and understanding people. | 0:34:03 | 0:34:07 | |
-There was a special bond -between him and Barry. | 0:34:09 | 0:34:12 | |
-If Barry ever would admit to a -mistake, it would only be to Carwyn. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:17 | |
-It was father and son, -brother and brother. | 0:34:17 | 0:34:20 | |
-Barry had total confidence -in Carwyn and vice versa. | 0:34:21 | 0:34:24 | |
-I'd talk to him as soon -as I got up in the morning. | 0:34:24 | 0:34:28 | |
-"Barry, do you want a day off? Do -you want a light training session?" | 0:34:28 | 0:34:33 | |
-I'd go off to play football -on another pitch. | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
-He would tell Doug Smith... | 0:34:37 | 0:34:39 | |
-.."Leave him be - -don't force him to do things." | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
-He just... more or less... | 0:34:43 | 0:34:45 | |
-..took one look at Barry and said, -"What do you do with him?" | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
-That was it. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:51 | |
-He'd say, "It's up to you. -Go and play - I can't help you." | 0:34:52 | 0:34:57 | |
-His motto was think on the field - -you have to think on the field. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:05 | |
-That's the only thing he told us. | 0:35:06 | 0:35:07 | |
-"Boys, think on the field. -I can't think for you. | 0:35:08 | 0:35:11 | |
-"Go on, off you go. | 0:35:11 | 0:35:13 | |
-"Like birds, go out and soar." | 0:35:14 | 0:35:18 | |
-That's it. That's Carwyn. | 0:35:18 | 0:35:20 | |
-Behind Willie John, -Sean Lynch and Delme Thomas. | 0:35:20 | 0:35:24 | |
-Chico Hopkins to Barry John. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
-John Dawes. -That's the big man, John Bevan. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
-The First Test, -I don't know how we won it. | 0:35:30 | 0:35:34 | |
-It's going to be a try. | 0:35:34 | 0:35:36 | |
-It's a try for the Lions, for -front row forward, Ian McLauchlan. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:40 | |
-Had we lost, it would have been -difficult for us to win the series. | 0:35:40 | 0:35:44 | |
-We realize this. | 0:35:44 | 0:35:45 | |
-We chose our best team -so it was important for us to win. | 0:35:46 | 0:35:50 | |
-We've won and we're very happy. | 0:35:50 | 0:35:52 | |
-Congratulations, Carwyn. -Go and enjoy yourself. | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
-Thank you. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:58 | |
-The Second Test, they gave us -a hiding for 60 minutes. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:03 | |
-On the blind side, Burgess. | 0:36:03 | 0:36:06 | |
-What a good score! -What a brilliant score! | 0:36:06 | 0:36:09 | |
-In the last 20 minutes, -we came back at them. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:13 | |
-Barry John. See how difficult -it is to keep your feet. | 0:36:13 | 0:36:18 | |
-During that last 20 minutes, -I said to Carwyn... | 0:36:18 | 0:36:22 | |
-.."If we can take that into -the Third Test, we've got a shout." | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
-I felt better after the Second -than I did after the First. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:31 | |
-We showed the character John -had mentioned in the First Test... | 0:36:31 | 0:36:35 | |
-..but in the Second, -there was a lot of quality play. | 0:36:36 | 0:36:39 | |
-There were two tries there -that should have been scored. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:43 | |
-There was a penalty we didn't take. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:46 | |
-There were 13 points -that went begging. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
-Can he get there? David Duckham. -What a brilliant try! | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
-The pass was forward, -the referee said. | 0:36:53 | 0:36:56 | |
-We knew after the Second if we could -put that right, we were in business. | 0:36:56 | 0:37:01 | |
-We had a week -preparing for the Third... | 0:37:01 | 0:37:03 | |
-..and we certainly -did some hard work. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:06 | |
-Five yards from the All Black line. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:08 | |
-Can the Lions ruck this ball? -They can, to Edwards. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
-Edwards going. Davis is there. | 0:37:12 | 0:37:14 | |
-Gerald Davies has scored a try. -He turned his body cleverly. | 0:37:14 | 0:37:18 | |
-Taylor's deflection. Edwards. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:23 | |
-Is he under the posts? -Can he get there? | 0:37:24 | 0:37:26 | |
-Barry John has scored. What a try! | 0:37:27 | 0:37:29 | |
-Barry John, the scorer. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:32 | |
-When we arrived, Doug Smith was -asked how he thought we'd get on. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:37 | |
-He said we'd win the series 2-1 -with one draw. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
-We nearly fell off our chairs, -but it happened. | 0:37:41 | 0:37:44 | |
-That's it. The British Lions -have won the series. | 0:37:47 | 0:37:52 | |
-Would it have happened -without Carwyn? I doubt it. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:58 | |
-A great day in a life that has been -a distinguished one in rugby. | 0:37:58 | 0:38:02 | |
-This must be one of the moments. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:05 | |
-Oh, yes, -one of the truly emotional moments. | 0:38:05 | 0:38:08 | |
-The boys played superbly. -It's been a long journey, Cliff. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:12 | |
-It's been a hard tour - -24 matches in New Zealand. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:15 | |
-The boys have played well, -with spirit, in all these matches. | 0:38:16 | 0:38:20 | |
-They thoroughly deserve -to win the series. | 0:38:20 | 0:38:22 | |
-# My grandpappy and me... # | 0:38:23 | 0:38:26 | |
-His influence was one of -the greatest influences I've seen. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:31 | |
-He influenced the game of rugby -around the world. | 0:38:31 | 0:38:36 | |
-After our tour, I spoke to TP McLean -and some of the other boys... | 0:38:36 | 0:38:41 | |
-..and they said that rugby in New -Zealand would never be the same... | 0:38:41 | 0:38:46 | |
-..after the 1971 Lions Tour. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
-There we are. -That's what Carwyn could do. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:51 | |
-# See how the mainsail sets... # | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
-It was never a job for Carwyn, -it was a life. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
-And he wanted people -to share that life. | 0:38:59 | 0:39:02 | |
-We were willing to take part in it. -He offered so much for us. | 0:39:02 | 0:39:07 | |
-# Ho-oh-oh-ome | 0:39:07 | 0:39:11 | |
-# This is the worst show, -yeah, I've ever been on | 0:39:11 | 0:39:15 | |
-# Hoist up the John B's sail | 0:39:18 | 0:39:22 | |
-# See how the mainsail sets | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
-# Call for the captain ashore | 0:39:26 | 0:39:29 | |
-# Let me go home | 0:39:29 | 0:39:32 | |
-# I wanna go home... # | 0:39:32 | 0:39:35 | |
-He didn't stand -at the end of the '71 Tour... | 0:39:35 | 0:39:38 | |
-..he didn't stand on a soapbox -and say, "Yahoo, we've done it!" | 0:39:38 | 0:39:42 | |
-There was never that reaction. | 0:39:42 | 0:39:44 | |
-There was just a quiet, -"Well done, chaps." | 0:39:44 | 0:39:48 | |
-. | 0:39:54 | 0:39:54 | |
-888 | 0:39:59 | 0:39:59 | |
-888 - -888 | 0:39:59 | 0:40:01 | |
-Any tour of New Zealand is -a tough one. All I will say is this. | 0:40:18 | 0:40:21 | |
-When the All Blacks come here -in '72, they'll be a good side. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:25 | |
-They'll be a hard side to beat. | 0:40:25 | 0:40:27 | |
-I only hope that every side -that will play against them... | 0:40:28 | 0:40:31 | |
-..will prepare thoroughly because -they'll have to give their best... | 0:40:31 | 0:40:36 | |
-..if they're going to beat any -New Zealand side that comes on tour. | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
-Make the most of this moment, -my son. | 0:40:42 | 0:40:45 | |
-You might never get another chance. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:49 | |
-That's better. Close on him, Gareth. | 0:40:52 | 0:40:55 | |
-Eyes on the ball, John. | 0:40:58 | 0:41:00 | |
-He had been preparing for a year... | 0:41:01 | 0:41:03 | |
-..when we played the All Blacks -at Llanelli. | 0:41:03 | 0:41:07 | |
-He knew their weaknesses. -He knew what kind of team he wanted. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:13 | |
-He brought Tommy David to Llanelli -the previous year... | 0:41:13 | 0:41:17 | |
-..and Chico Hopkins -as a scrum-half. | 0:41:17 | 0:41:20 | |
-He knew Llanelli were weak -in some areas. | 0:41:20 | 0:41:23 | |
-He strengthened the team. | 0:41:23 | 0:41:26 | |
-Think about it. -That's the important thing. | 0:41:27 | 0:41:30 | |
-Think about it, think about it. -It's a thinking game. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:33 | |
-He always said -it was a thinking game. | 0:41:34 | 0:41:36 | |
-Think about what you're doing. | 0:41:36 | 0:41:38 | |
-He thought a lot about the games. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
-He looked at the opposition's -weakness more than their strength. | 0:41:42 | 0:41:48 | |
-He wanted to highlight -the weaknesses. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
-He would tell us -what we had to do to beat them. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
-We arrived at Stradey first thing -in the morning - about 10.00am. | 0:42:04 | 0:42:09 | |
-We went down to the Ashburnham -in Pembrey for a meal. | 0:42:09 | 0:42:13 | |
-I couldn't eat a meal -before playing. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:18 | |
-I'd swallow two or three eggs raw -and wash them down with a sherry. | 0:42:18 | 0:42:22 | |
-When the boys saw three eggs -being served to me on a plate... | 0:42:23 | 0:42:28 | |
-..I had to go out -to swallow the eggs... | 0:42:29 | 0:42:31 | |
-..and then come back -to sit with them. | 0:42:32 | 0:42:34 | |
-I could never eat a meal -before a game. | 0:42:34 | 0:42:38 | |
-We travelled back to Stradey -about 1.30pm... | 0:42:40 | 0:42:44 | |
-..about an hour before kick-off. | 0:42:44 | 0:42:46 | |
-Have you got a pad? | 0:42:51 | 0:42:52 | |
-No-one could have given more -before the game than Carwyn. | 0:42:52 | 0:42:56 | |
-He said it was an important game. | 0:42:57 | 0:42:59 | |
-The most important game of our lives -would be the All Blacks at Stradey. | 0:43:00 | 0:43:04 | |
-We'd trained for six months -for this game. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
-He told us not to waste our chance -and to do our best. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:12 | |
-He then handed over -the speaking duties to me. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
-I had to tell the boys how -I felt and what I expected of them. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:21 | |
-No doubt about it - Delme expressed -it better than anyone else. | 0:43:22 | 0:43:26 | |
-The game mattered more to him -than any other game he'd played in. | 0:43:26 | 0:43:30 | |
-It got through to the players... | 0:43:31 | 0:43:32 | |
-..to the extent -I had one or two of the boys crying. | 0:43:33 | 0:43:36 | |
-Carwyn was the main man. | 0:43:36 | 0:43:38 | |
-He had coached the team -for two or three years. | 0:43:38 | 0:43:42 | |
-He had built us up -to the game against New Zealand. | 0:43:42 | 0:43:46 | |
-CHEERING | 0:43:59 | 0:44:01 | |
-CHEERING | 0:44:14 | 0:44:16 | |
-You could see the pleasure in -his face when we came off the pitch. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:30 | |
-He was so happy that day because -we had beaten the All Blacks. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:35 | |
-He tried to keep quiet -and didn't express his feelings. | 0:44:35 | 0:44:40 | |
-That's the type of person he was... | 0:44:40 | 0:44:43 | |
-..but you could see -he was proud of the team. | 0:44:43 | 0:44:47 | |
-Everyone said he'd been lucky -out in New Zealand... | 0:44:54 | 0:44:57 | |
-..because he had a good team. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
-He proved a point in Stradey -that day. | 0:45:00 | 0:45:03 | |
-He had also been turned down -for the role of Welsh coach. | 0:45:04 | 0:45:07 | |
-He proved he was an excellent coach. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:11 | |
-COUGHING | 0:45:14 | 0:45:16 | |
-I think he felt bitter... | 0:45:25 | 0:45:31 | |
-..because he'd been overlooked -for the Wales coaching job. | 0:45:31 | 0:45:35 | |
-Clive Rowlands -Wales Coach 1968-72 | 0:45:44 | 0:45:48 | |
-When they chose me for the job -in 1968, I told them straight... | 0:45:48 | 0:45:53 | |
-..I wanted it for three years -and not one. | 0:45:54 | 0:45:59 | |
-At the end of the second year... | 0:45:59 | 0:46:02 | |
-..I told them that I wanted Wales's -next coach to work with me... | 0:46:02 | 0:46:07 | |
-..during the final year. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
-So he could learn what was going on -and the transition would be smooth. | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
-I thought that was a good idea. | 0:46:15 | 0:46:16 | |
-Carwyn was one of the candidates, -along with John Dawes. | 0:46:17 | 0:46:22 | |
-Carwyn had been very successful -with Llanelli. | 0:46:22 | 0:46:25 | |
-John Dawes had been -very successful with London Welsh. | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
-It was typical of Carwyn - -he wanted total control. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:35 | |
-That included picking the team. | 0:46:35 | 0:46:38 | |
-But a Big Five existed at the time -and Carwyn didn't stand a chance. | 0:46:38 | 0:46:44 | |
-They would never relinquish control. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
-I can see him now, standing by -the radiator warming his backside... | 0:46:47 | 0:46:53 | |
-..and smoking, as usual. | 0:46:55 | 0:46:57 | |
-A fag in his mouth. | 0:46:57 | 0:46:59 | |
-He said he'd decided he didn't -want to be the Welsh coach... | 0:46:59 | 0:47:04 | |
-..under the current terms. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:06 | |
-I argued with him about it -for at least two hours. | 0:47:07 | 0:47:11 | |
-At about two or three o'clock -in the morning... | 0:47:12 | 0:47:15 | |
-..he said, -"Anyway, I've sent the letter." | 0:47:16 | 0:47:19 | |
-It was a long letter -rejecting the job. | 0:47:19 | 0:47:22 | |
-He'd made it plainly obvious... | 0:47:25 | 0:47:28 | |
-..why he wasn't ready -to be the Wales coach... | 0:47:28 | 0:47:32 | |
-..if he wasn't allowed -direct control over the team... | 0:47:33 | 0:47:37 | |
-..without any interference -from the Big Five. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:41 | |
-I have to say, I was very upset -with him that night... | 0:47:41 | 0:47:45 | |
-..for wasting my time. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:47 | |
-We all want the new man -to be successful. | 0:47:58 | 0:48:01 | |
-He must be given the freedom -to express himself. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
-A coach, like a teacher, -is an expression of personality. | 0:48:07 | 0:48:11 | |
-He has to nominate -if he is to succeed. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
-This he cannot do... | 0:48:14 | 0:48:15 | |
-..with a small committee which is -responsible for his appointment. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:19 | |
-Whatever the future policy... | 0:48:20 | 0:48:22 | |
-..it is important -as a matter of principle... | 0:48:22 | 0:48:25 | |
-..that he is appointed by the full -executive committee of the Union. | 0:48:25 | 0:48:30 | |
-He should be answerable to them. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:32 | |
-The dictator must observe humility. | 0:48:37 | 0:48:40 | |
-My questions were rhetorical -and I don't expect a reply. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:45 | |
-I think there was great frustration -initially and then disappointment. | 0:48:51 | 0:48:56 | |
-He wanted to bring back that type -of rugby to the Welsh life. | 0:48:58 | 0:49:05 | |
-I think he was ready for it -but Wales wasn't ready for it. | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
-And I think that frustrated him. | 0:49:12 | 0:49:14 | |
-He could see -that he was getting nowhere fast. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:19 | |
-He resigned himself to the fact that -he wasn't going to be the coach. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:25 | |
-That's when disappointment set in. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:28 | |
-I think, from then, -he became very unhappy. | 0:49:28 | 0:49:33 | |
-Sadly. | 0:49:35 | 0:49:37 | |
-My questions were rhetorical -and I don't expect a reply. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
-Get your retaliation in first, -goddam it. | 0:49:47 | 0:49:50 | |
-. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:01 | |
-888 | 0:50:05 | 0:50:05 | |
-888 - -888 | 0:50:05 | 0:50:07 | |
-He worked occasionally when -was lecturing at Trinity College. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:21 | |
-I was Head of Programmes -at the BBC at the time. | 0:50:22 | 0:50:25 | |
-I wanted more input from rugby. | 0:50:26 | 0:50:29 | |
-He left Trinity College -to come and work full-time. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
-Of course, -he became an excellent presenter... | 0:50:35 | 0:50:39 | |
-..on Sports Lineup -on Sunday afternoons. | 0:50:39 | 0:50:43 | |
-As soon as he saw the microphone, -or the cameras started rolling... | 0:50:47 | 0:50:52 | |
-..he was a different man. | 0:50:53 | 0:50:55 | |
-His language on screen -was excellent. | 0:50:56 | 0:50:59 | |
-As a match analyst, -he was second to none. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:04 | |
-I'm looking forward to the analysis -of the quality of Welsh club rugby. | 0:51:08 | 0:51:13 | |
-I'll try and assess the quality -of the game generally... | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
-..at all levels in Wales -as we approach the end of the '70s. | 0:51:18 | 0:51:21 | |
-He was an academic. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:24 | |
-I was surprised he'd decided -to pack in his quiet life... | 0:51:24 | 0:51:29 | |
-..at Trinity College Carmarthen... | 0:51:29 | 0:51:32 | |
-..to join the hustle and bustle -of broadcasting. | 0:51:32 | 0:51:36 | |
-When the red light came on, -it was time to perform. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:41 | |
-Half the time, -there was a call for Carwyn... | 0:51:41 | 0:51:44 | |
-..and he was down the corridor -having a cigarette. | 0:51:44 | 0:51:48 | |
-Life is serious, -the playing of games is serious... | 0:51:48 | 0:51:51 | |
-..winning for the sake -of national prestige is important. | 0:51:51 | 0:51:55 | |
-They mistrust the flair -and panache of the French. | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
-A free-flowing basketball type -of approach is too dangerous. | 0:51:59 | 0:52:02 | |
-There was no discipline in his -personal and professional life. | 0:52:03 | 0:52:06 | |
-He couldn't stand -being woken up at 5.00am... | 0:52:07 | 0:52:10 | |
-..to do some work for a programme -that started at 6.00am. | 0:52:11 | 0:52:16 | |
-He preferred to stay in bed. | 0:52:16 | 0:52:18 | |
-He was a man who enjoyed the night -more than early morning. | 0:52:19 | 0:52:24 | |
-At one time, he was doing sports -bulletins very early in the morning. | 0:52:24 | 0:52:30 | |
-He had to be at the BBC -before 6.00am... | 0:52:30 | 0:52:34 | |
-..to prepare whatever he had to say. | 0:52:34 | 0:52:37 | |
-Often, when I produced -Helo Bobol in the mornings... | 0:52:37 | 0:52:41 | |
-..he'd turn up in his pyjamas -wearing an overcoat on top. | 0:52:41 | 0:52:45 | |
-He'd take off his coat -and in he went. | 0:52:45 | 0:52:48 | |
-He'd take his time to move -from one place to another... | 0:52:48 | 0:52:52 | |
-..and yet, his diary was packed. | 0:52:53 | 0:52:55 | |
-That's why he'd turn up -to places rather late at times. | 0:52:56 | 0:53:02 | |
-There was a table in the kitchen. | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
-It wasn't a small table. -It was a substantial table. | 0:53:08 | 0:53:11 | |
-It was covered in letters, -envelopes, papers. | 0:53:12 | 0:53:15 | |
-Half of them hadn't been opened. | 0:53:16 | 0:53:18 | |
-"You have to go through everything, -read them all... | 0:53:20 | 0:53:24 | |
-.."and choose -what to accept and what to refuse." | 0:53:24 | 0:53:28 | |
-By the time we'd finished, -I'd written over 600 letters... | 0:53:29 | 0:53:34 | |
-..to try and clear -the correspondence on the table. | 0:53:34 | 0:53:39 | |
-The car was also full of letters, -coats and bags. | 0:53:39 | 0:53:43 | |
-He was quite disorganized. | 0:53:43 | 0:53:45 | |
-He thought he could cope... | 0:53:47 | 0:53:49 | |
-..but he needed someone -to check that he was all right... | 0:53:50 | 0:53:53 | |
-..and that he had arrived -where he was supposed to arrive. | 0:53:53 | 0:53:57 | |
-He'd often return to his sister's -in Cefneithin for Sunday lunch. | 0:53:57 | 0:54:01 | |
-She did his washing for years. | 0:54:01 | 0:54:04 | |
-He thought the world of Gwen... | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
-..but Gwen was sharp. | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
-Gwen dealt with him -as if he was a boy. | 0:54:09 | 0:54:12 | |
-He had to do -what Gwen told him to do. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:15 | |
-"Do I have to do it?" -"You have to do it now." | 0:54:15 | 0:54:18 | |
-Gwen was exceptional. | 0:54:18 | 0:54:20 | |
-It was all right -to come back and sleep... | 0:54:21 | 0:54:24 | |
-..but he liked to see, -well... he could see very far. | 0:54:24 | 0:54:29 | |
-He wanted to go far. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:31 | |
-He did go far. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:38 | |
-Sometimes, you have to leave Wales -to come back. | 0:54:54 | 0:54:59 | |
-Other times... | 0:55:09 | 0:55:11 | |
-..there's no choice. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:13 | |
-You must go. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
-He took a sabbatical in '77. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:37 | |
-He went to Italy, to Rovigo. | 0:55:37 | 0:55:41 | |
-He was happy in Italy. | 0:55:42 | 0:55:44 | |
-From what I could see... | 0:55:44 | 0:55:46 | |
-..he was more relaxed... | 0:55:46 | 0:55:49 | |
-..outside Wales... | 0:55:50 | 0:55:52 | |
-..where people's only concern -was rugby. | 0:55:53 | 0:55:56 | |
-Good regrouping there -from the kick-off. | 0:55:58 | 0:56:00 | |
-Very good control at the line-out. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:03 | |
-You can see the delivery, -and the ball moved across field. | 0:56:03 | 0:56:07 | |
-The first thing we heard was that -a great coach was about to arrive. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:23 | |
-We didn't know who -but we didn't really care. | 0:56:23 | 0:56:27 | |
-But we heard the name and found out -he was a famous coach from Llanelli. | 0:56:27 | 0:56:31 | |
-He'd won three titles with Llanelli -and he'd coached the British Lions. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:38 | |
-He'd had a sensational result -against New Zealand. | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
-He was quiet during the week -but his team talk was special. | 0:56:45 | 0:56:57 | |
-He transferred his calmness... | 0:56:57 | 0:56:59 | |
-..which was part of his personality, -to the field. | 0:57:00 | 0:57:04 | |
-Like the moment before a battle, -he could keep the team calm. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:09 | |
-Do you remember what Baiani -called him? Agricola! | 0:57:09 | 0:57:14 | |
-The trouble with Italian rugby -is that Mediano di Mischia... | 0:57:14 | 0:57:19 | |
-..wants to decide -what the team is doing. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:22 | |
-Every team that I've seen, -Mediano di Mischia. | 0:57:22 | 0:57:25 | |
-Very bad for Italian rugby. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:28 | |
-The forwards do the thinking -and not the scrum-half. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:32 | |
-We won the Championship -against Casale La Tegolaia. | 0:57:33 | 0:57:40 | |
-Yes, in Rovigo. | 0:57:40 | 0:57:41 | |
-He chose the team from the players -who had appeared most often... | 0:57:42 | 0:57:46 | |
-..during the Championship. -Do you remember? | 0:57:46 | 0:57:50 | |
-Yes, yes. | 0:57:51 | 0:57:52 | |
-Another good memory was when -we met the Pope. Do you remember? | 0:57:52 | 0:57:56 | |
-The club's President, Bonzetti, -introduced Carwyn to him... | 0:57:56 | 0:58:03 | |
-..by saying, -"Here's our devil of a coach." | 0:58:03 | 0:58:08 | |
-John Paul II said, -"What? The Devil in the Vatican!" | 0:58:08 | 0:58:15 | |
-CARWYN SPEAKS ITALIAN | 0:58:15 | 0:58:17 | |
-Here in Rovigo, he had people -who respected and admired him. | 0:58:30 | 0:58:34 | |
-He was a successful man. | 0:58:34 | 0:58:36 | |
-There was sadness and disappointment -hiding under the surface, though... | 0:58:36 | 0:58:41 | |
-..because of his failure to express -his true personality back home. | 0:58:41 | 0:58:46 | |
-This was true not only on the rugby -pitch but also in his personal life. | 0:58:46 | 0:58:50 | |
-He was evidently unhappy. | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
-Carwyn also suffered because -he couldn't express his feelings... | 0:58:54 | 0:59:00 | |
-..especially love. | 0:59:01 | 0:59:03 | |
-This was worse because he was such -a sensitive person. | 0:59:04 | 0:59:07 | |
-This may have been the reason he -detached himself from everyday life. | 0:59:08 | 0:59:13 | |
-He let everything slip -from his grasp. | 0:59:13 | 0:59:16 | |
-He said something -that truly shocked me. | 0:59:18 | 0:59:29 | |
-We'd all gone back to his flat -for a drink and some fun. | 0:59:29 | 0:59:34 | |
-Then, after everyone had left... | 0:59:34 | 0:59:37 | |
-It was autumn and misty outside. | 0:59:37 | 0:59:39 | |
-He stood by the window -smoking his John Players as usual... | 0:59:40 | 0:59:46 | |
-He had drunk a lot -and, very sincerely, he said... | 0:59:47 | 0:59:55 | |
-.."Angelo, believe you me, -if I had to die tonight... | 0:59:55 | 1:00:00 | |
-.."I wouldn't mind. -It wouldn't bother me at all." | 1:00:01 | 1:00:06 | |
-I tried to help him but I couldn't. -That's the way it was. | 1:00:06 | 1:00:13 | |
-Dots on his face -show the creases of time. | 1:00:36 | 1:00:39 | |
-The eyes without any sign -of man's happiness. | 1:00:41 | 1:00:44 | |
-A voice never nurtured -or heard by a congregation... | 1:00:45 | 1:00:49 | |
-..a voice silenced -by lack of self-esteem. | 1:00:49 | 1:00:54 | |
-He concentrated on it -but it didn't feel any emptier. | 1:00:56 | 1:01:00 | |
-Emptier. | 1:01:00 | 1:01:02 | |
-His barren face -was nothing in the lake's water. | 1:01:03 | 1:01:07 | |
-And on the ruins -of our civilisation today... | 1:01:08 | 1:01:12 | |
-..grow the yellow flowers -with their white petals. | 1:01:14 | 1:01:18 | |
-After what happened... | 1:01:24 | 1:01:26 | |
-..he lived an extremely stressful -life for a long period of time. | 1:01:26 | 1:01:32 | |
-Psoriasis spread through his body. | 1:01:35 | 1:01:38 | |
-It was awful. -He had blood on his shirts. | 1:01:38 | 1:01:42 | |
-He had blood on his towels. | 1:01:42 | 1:01:45 | |
-He had this skin disease. | 1:01:46 | 1:01:50 | |
-To be honest... | 1:01:50 | 1:01:51 | |
-..I don't think he slept properly... | 1:01:52 | 1:01:55 | |
-..during the last 15 years -of his life. | 1:01:55 | 1:01:58 | |
-I don't think he had one -comfortable night. | 1:02:01 | 1:02:04 | |
-It deteriorated over the years. | 1:02:04 | 1:02:08 | |
-He never overcame the illness. | 1:02:10 | 1:02:12 | |
-The illness made him drink -more and more. | 1:02:15 | 1:02:21 | |
-It was the only way -he could find peace. | 1:02:21 | 1:02:27 | |
-He kept a lot inside himself. | 1:02:54 | 1:02:56 | |
-He wasn't the kind of man -to tell his friend, "I feel rough." | 1:02:57 | 1:03:03 | |
-He just kept himself to himself. | 1:03:04 | 1:03:09 | |
-He was definitely a complex person. | 1:03:12 | 1:03:14 | |
-I don't know how many secrets -he was willing to share. | 1:03:14 | 1:03:18 | |
-He shared some of his secrets -with me. I would never repeat them. | 1:03:18 | 1:03:23 | |
-I don't think he would readily -share secrets with people. | 1:03:25 | 1:03:31 | |
-He was a private person. | 1:03:31 | 1:03:33 | |
-Carwyn was so lonely in one sense. | 1:03:37 | 1:03:41 | |
-He had so many inner feelings... | 1:03:42 | 1:03:47 | |
-..competing against each other. | 1:03:47 | 1:03:51 | |
-He never expressed them, -even to his friends. | 1:03:55 | 1:03:59 | |
-That's the truth. | 1:04:01 | 1:04:03 | |
-I remember one night, we went -to an Italian restaurant in Cardiff. | 1:04:03 | 1:04:08 | |
-He always chose -where we'd go to eat. | 1:04:08 | 1:04:11 | |
-There was no choice. | 1:04:12 | 1:04:14 | |
-I was never sure if he went there -for the food or the people. | 1:04:14 | 1:04:18 | |
-He always treated the staff well -in restaurants. | 1:04:18 | 1:04:24 | |
-He was a real gentleman -when he spoke to them. | 1:04:24 | 1:04:28 | |
-There was one young Italian man -there who was very glad to see him. | 1:04:29 | 1:04:34 | |
-My wife, my late wife, had been -friends with him for many years. | 1:04:35 | 1:04:41 | |
-They spent a lot of time together. | 1:04:41 | 1:04:44 | |
-A lot of people -thought they were lovers. | 1:04:44 | 1:04:47 | |
-I knew there was nothing -between Carwyn and her... | 1:04:47 | 1:04:51 | |
-..and I knew Carwyn wasn't -seeing another girl either. | 1:04:51 | 1:04:55 | |
-He loved girls' company but -he didn't chase girls in any way. | 1:04:55 | 1:05:01 | |
-She'd told me his needs -weren't like those of other men... | 1:05:02 | 1:05:09 | |
-..when it came to women. | 1:05:09 | 1:05:12 | |
-At that time, there was -more stigma if you came out. | 1:05:14 | 1:05:18 | |
-Think of the impact. | 1:05:20 | 1:05:22 | |
-Now I don't know for sure -if he was... | 1:05:22 | 1:05:26 | |
-..but imagine if he had come out. | 1:05:26 | 1:05:28 | |
-Imagine the effect -it would have had... | 1:05:28 | 1:05:31 | |
-..on his father, on the chapel. | 1:05:31 | 1:05:34 | |
-You just don't do it. | 1:05:34 | 1:05:36 | |
-Dear me. | 1:05:37 | 1:05:39 | |
-No, I've never heard anyone say who -the man was, if he even had a man. | 1:05:40 | 1:05:45 | |
-I don't believe, damn it, -the way he was... | 1:05:45 | 1:05:49 | |
-..that anyone would fancy him. | 1:05:49 | 1:05:52 | |
-No way. | 1:05:54 | 1:05:55 | |
-A lot of people invented stories. | 1:05:57 | 1:06:01 | |
-Dear me. | 1:06:02 | 1:06:03 | |
-The non-conformist conscience. | 1:06:03 | 1:06:06 | |
-The conscience of Methodist, -the non-conformist conscience. | 1:06:06 | 1:06:12 | |
-GLASS SMASHES | 1:06:30 | 1:06:32 | |
-It's possible -that the fact he hid this... | 1:06:46 | 1:06:50 | |
-..or had to hide this... | 1:06:50 | 1:06:52 | |
-..contributed to his anguish... | 1:06:55 | 1:06:58 | |
-..during his final days. | 1:07:00 | 1:07:02 | |
-It was a shock for everyone -in Wales... | 1:07:04 | 1:07:06 | |
-..when they realized. | 1:07:07 | 1:07:09 | |
-It was also a shock for people -outside Wales... | 1:07:09 | 1:07:12 | |
-..in the other countries -where people admired him. | 1:07:12 | 1:07:16 | |
-You hated yourself, didn't you? | 1:07:26 | 1:07:28 | |
-Your skin was covered in sores. | 1:07:31 | 1:07:33 | |
-Your eyes were dark pools of pain. | 1:07:35 | 1:07:39 | |
-You hated yourself because -you had to suffer loneliness. | 1:07:41 | 1:07:45 | |
-All alone, suffering without love. | 1:07:46 | 1:07:50 | |
-Suffering to the point of insanity. | 1:07:54 | 1:07:57 | |
-Lots of things in Wales -are kept quiet. | 1:08:02 | 1:08:05 | |
-Nobody knows anything about them. | 1:08:05 | 1:08:09 | |
-Be far better -if things are not bottled up. | 1:08:09 | 1:08:12 | |
-I think we ought to be more open. | 1:08:12 | 1:08:15 | |
-It would give more people -a chance... | 1:08:17 | 1:08:20 | |
-..to live their life -as they would like to. | 1:08:20 | 1:08:23 | |
-We are too ready to criticize and... | 1:08:28 | 1:08:32 | |
-..not see -the other person's point of view. | 1:08:34 | 1:08:37 | |
-We're not supposed to criticize. | 1:08:39 | 1:08:42 | |
-Of course, -they say life is what you make it. | 1:08:48 | 1:08:51 | |
-Not with everybody. | 1:08:53 | 1:08:55 | |
-PANTING | 1:08:57 | 1:08:59 | |
-A yellow flower on white petals. -Narcissus. | 1:09:03 | 1:09:07 | |
-I'm scared. | 1:09:10 | 1:09:11 | |
-Scared that I can't love. | 1:09:12 | 1:09:15 | |
-I can't love anyone... -except myself. | 1:09:15 | 1:09:18 | |
-Scared of the great void. | 1:09:22 | 1:09:25 | |
-I'm going to leave this world -having never loved. | 1:09:27 | 1:09:30 | |
-Without being loved. | 1:09:32 | 1:09:33 | |
-Don't. Leave me alone. | 1:09:47 | 1:09:50 | |
-Leave me in peace. | 1:09:51 | 1:09:53 | |
-SOBBING | 1:10:08 | 1:10:10 | |
-Yes, it was weird. | 1:10:24 | 1:10:26 | |
-He was very sad -with the way everything turned out. | 1:10:26 | 1:10:29 | |
-In the end. | 1:10:30 | 1:10:32 | |
-He was exhausted that Christmas. | 1:10:32 | 1:10:35 | |
-He was totally exhausted. -He said he needed a break. | 1:10:35 | 1:10:39 | |
-He realized he had a week -when he could go away. | 1:10:39 | 1:10:43 | |
-He wanted to go -to the Caribbean sun. | 1:10:44 | 1:10:47 | |
-I think it would have helped -his skin. | 1:10:47 | 1:10:51 | |
-But he couldn't... | 1:10:51 | 1:10:53 | |
-Brenda, who worked with Gareth -Price, tried to book him a holiday. | 1:10:54 | 1:10:58 | |
-She couldn't get him a place -in the Caribbean. | 1:10:59 | 1:11:02 | |
-Brenda asked him -if he fancied going to Amsterdam. | 1:11:02 | 1:11:06 | |
-It wasn't too far from Cardiff. | 1:11:06 | 1:11:08 | |
-That's what happened. -That's how he went to Amsterdam. | 1:11:08 | 1:11:12 | |
-A man past fifty sees clearly... | 1:11:34 | 1:11:38 | |
-..the people and community -that shaped his life. | 1:11:38 | 1:11:41 | |
-Nothing remains today -in the back of the mind... | 1:11:43 | 1:11:46 | |
-..except family, neighbourhood, -sacrifice and man's suffering. | 1:11:47 | 1:11:52 | |
-Man's suffering. | 1:11:54 | 1:11:56 | |
-Make the most of this moment, -my son. | 1:12:12 | 1:12:16 | |
-You might never get another chance. | 1:12:16 | 1:12:19 | |
-Carwyn James died in an -Amsterdam hotel on January 10, 1983 | 1:12:29 | 1:12:42 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Simian 04 Cyf. | 1:13:32 | 1:13:35 | |
-. | 1:13:35 | 1:13:35 |