Yr Arglwydd Elystan

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-The House of Lords, Westminster.	0:00:09	0:00:11
-A very familiar building -to Lord Elystan Morgan.	0:00:11	0:00:15
-Today he receives a visitor.	0:00:15	0:00:17
-His former election agent, -Sir Deian Hopkin.	0:00:17	0:00:20
-Lovely to see you.	0:00:20	0:00:22
-I've been thinking, Elystan, -you've experienced Parliament...	0:00:22	0:00:26
-..and you were a minister there.	0:00:27	0:00:29
-You've now moved -to a very different house.	0:00:30	0:00:32
-How do the two compare?	0:00:33	0:00:35
-I've been -a member of this house for 34 years.	0:00:35	0:00:38
-However, I spent close to 20 years -outside of here when I was a judge.	0:00:38	0:00:42
-There have been -two halves to my life.	0:00:43	0:00:46
-Lord Elystan -is now in his eighties.	0:00:51	0:00:54
-He's been a member -of the House of Lords since 1981.	0:00:54	0:00:57
-Prior to that, he was a solicitor, -a barrister and a judge...	0:00:58	0:01:02
-..as well as an MP for Aberystwyth -for eight years.	0:01:02	0:01:05
-His story begins -in Bow Street, Aberystwyth...	0:01:06	0:01:10
-..his current home and birthplace.	0:01:10	0:01:12
-What I remember most -is the horse game.	0:01:13	0:01:15
-There were four or six boys...	0:01:16	0:01:20
-..with cord -wrapped around each of their arms.	0:01:20	0:01:24
-Then there was the driver.	0:01:24	0:01:27
-I didn't know much about horses...	0:01:27	0:01:30
-..but I swore and shouted -louder than everyone else.	0:01:30	0:01:33
-We'd drive around the yard, -scaring the little girls...	0:01:33	0:01:38
-..and ruining -their china dolls' houses.	0:01:38	0:01:42
-We had appalling language.	0:01:43	0:01:45
-"Get inside, Lock!"	0:01:45	0:01:48
-"Boxer, you idle rascal, -pull for your life!"	0:01:48	0:01:51
-"Behave yourself!"	0:01:51	0:01:53
-There was -plenty of shouting and bawling.	0:01:53	0:01:57
-He was a mischievous boy.	0:01:58	0:02:00
-He always got up to -all kinds of mischief.	0:02:00	0:02:03
-He never quite knew -where to draw the line.	0:02:03	0:02:07
-He had such a sharp mind.	0:02:07	0:02:12
-He was inventive in his mischief.	0:02:13	0:02:16
-ED Jones was the headmaster. -He lived here in Dole.	0:02:16	0:02:21
-He was an unusual chap. -He was ahead of his time.	0:02:21	0:02:24
-He was very cultured.	0:02:24	0:02:26
-I remember having the biggest row -you can imagine from him.	0:02:29	0:02:34
-It was raining.	0:02:34	0:02:37
-It was playtime but the children -weren't allowed outside.	0:02:37	0:02:41
-The teachers had gone -for a cup of tea in the staff room.	0:02:41	0:02:45
-We were in the headmaster's room, -room number five.	0:02:45	0:02:49
-His cap was on his desk.	0:02:49	0:02:52
-I put the cap on my head...	0:02:52	0:02:54
-..and pretended to be Mr Jones, -leading the singing.	0:02:54	0:02:58
-I made up a limerick.	0:02:59	0:03:01
-"Rumour has it the Duchess of Kent	0:03:01	0:03:03
-"Washes her backside -with soap and scent."	0:03:03	0:03:06
-The children were in stitches.	0:03:06	0:03:09
-All of a sudden, -it fell deathly silent.	0:03:10	0:03:13
-A silent, sudden lull...	0:03:14	0:03:16
-..as Gwyn Jones would put it.	0:03:16	0:03:18
-Who was standing behind me -but Jones.	0:03:18	0:03:21
-He berated me harshly -in front of everyone.	0:03:21	0:03:25
-But it was worth it!	0:03:25	0:03:28
-The very first memory I have -of Elystan is very fitting...	0:03:28	0:03:33
-..because it's to do with politics.	0:03:34	0:03:36
-Whenever -a general election was held...	0:03:36	0:03:40
-..the headmaster -granted us permission...	0:03:40	0:03:45
-..to hold -our own election at school...	0:03:45	0:03:48
-..which lasted -as long as the proper election.	0:03:48	0:03:53
-I remember the election -and Elystan stood as a Nationalist.	0:03:53	0:03:58
-We were -in a packed room at lunchtime...	0:03:59	0:04:03
-..and there was -lots of shouting and heckling.	0:04:03	0:04:06
-Elystan spoke -and there were lots of boos.	0:04:06	0:04:09
-Elystan said, "You that are -booing now are not booing me...	0:04:09	0:04:14
-"..but you're booing -your own country."	0:04:15	0:04:17
-The result was announced -that afternoon.	0:04:18	0:04:21
-Elystan came out on top.	0:04:22	0:04:24
-Even in those early days...	0:04:24	0:04:27
-..he had the gift of the gab.	0:04:27	0:04:29
-Nobody could touch him.	0:04:29	0:04:32
-My mother and father -were interested in politics.	0:04:35	0:04:39
-They'd often discuss politics -at home when I was growing up.	0:04:39	0:04:45
-I've no doubt -they were both Socialists...	0:04:45	0:04:48
-..and patriotic Nationalists too.	0:04:48	0:04:55
-If you'd asked them -which they favoured...	0:04:58	0:05:01
-..they'd have told you -that both were interlinked.	0:05:02	0:05:05
-Elystan was brought up -in the Bow Street area.	0:05:06	0:05:10
-What's interesting -about this area...	0:05:10	0:05:13
-..is that it was -a hotbed of early Nationalists...	0:05:13	0:05:18
-..of whom Elystan's father, -Dewi Morgan, was one.	0:05:19	0:05:23
-They were -Nationalists of the 1930s...	0:05:23	0:05:26
-..during the party's early history.	0:05:27	0:05:29
-They were supporters of Plaid Cymru.	0:05:29	0:05:32
-It was from there that he emerged...	0:05:32	0:05:35
-..as a cultured -and linguistic Nationalist...	0:05:35	0:05:39
-..who became -increasingly more political.	0:05:39	0:05:42
-I'd say that Elystan was, -and still is...	0:05:42	0:05:45
-..every inch a politician.	0:05:45	0:05:48
-I don't think I'd ever considered -politics as a profession.	0:05:49	0:05:53
-How could I?	0:05:54	0:05:55
-The likelihood of a Nationalist -being elected was very slim.	0:05:56	0:06:01
-It was almost by accident...	0:06:01	0:06:03
-..that I became a parliamentary -candidate for Wrexham...	0:06:04	0:06:08
-..at the by-election.	0:06:08	0:06:10
-If I remember rightly...	0:06:11	0:06:15
-..I was only 21 years old -at the time...	0:06:15	0:06:18
-..at the end of 1954.	0:06:18	0:06:21
-I was warmly received in Rhos.	0:06:21	0:06:24
-There was a real spark...	0:06:24	0:06:27
-..to the campaign, -we received 4,500 votes.	0:06:27	0:06:31
-It was a great experience.	0:06:31	0:06:34
-Looking back on my life, -it was a fateful decision...	0:06:34	0:06:39
-..because it was a few years later -in Wrexham that I met Alwen.	0:06:40	0:06:44
-That's been my biggest blessing.	0:06:46	0:06:48
-People talk about -the yin and the yang...	0:06:48	0:06:51
-..but Elystan and Alwen -were so different...	0:06:51	0:06:54
-..and yet together, -they were a formidable team.	0:06:55	0:06:58
-He was the joker and the raconteur -who had a lust for life...	0:06:58	0:07:03
-..and Alwen was the quiet one.	0:07:03	0:07:06
-But she always had a gentle smile.	0:07:06	0:07:09
-She was always in the background.	0:07:10	0:07:12
-If you look at the 1960s -as a decade...	0:07:15	0:07:20
-..it's a period of excitement.	0:07:20	0:07:22
-For any young man wishing to be -a politician during that time...	0:07:22	0:07:26
-..it was a difficult struggle -because nobody could sense...	0:07:27	0:07:31
-..where this -enormous social change...	0:07:31	0:07:35
-..was going to lead.	0:07:35	0:07:37
-It was a time when people had -to make decisions and take risks.	0:07:37	0:07:42
-That's when Elystan Morgan -had to make important decisions...	0:07:42	0:07:48
-..that shaped the rest of his life -in terms of his political career.	0:07:48	0:07:53
-I attended Plaid Cymru's conference -and summer school...	0:07:54	0:07:58
-..for the first time in 1959.	0:07:58	0:08:00
-Elystan, at that time, -was already one of the stars.	0:08:00	0:08:05
-He was very close to Gwynfor.	0:08:05	0:08:08
-He was very loyal to Gwynfor.	0:08:09	0:08:11
-We must remember -that during that time...	0:08:11	0:08:14
-..Gwynfor's leadership was -being criticised and challenged...	0:08:15	0:08:19
-..from two directions.	0:08:19	0:08:21
-One, from people -who wanted the party...	0:08:21	0:08:24
-..to take direct action in Tryweryn.	0:08:24	0:08:28
-Another challenge -came from a different direction...	0:08:28	0:08:32
-..from a group in southeast Wales...	0:08:32	0:08:35
-..who felt that Gwynfor upheld -traditional nationalistic beliefs...	0:08:35	0:08:41
-..that were outmoded -for the Wales that was evolving...	0:08:41	0:08:45
-..at the end of the 1950s, -early 1960s.	0:08:45	0:08:48
-In 1964...	0:08:48	0:08:50
-..and 1965...	0:08:51	0:08:53
-..things were becoming more -and more unsettled in Plaid Cymru...	0:08:53	0:08:59
-..on a daily basis.	0:08:59	0:09:01
-The faction that was determined -to get rid of Gwynfor...	0:09:03	0:09:07
-..was strengthening and becoming -more vociferous and hard nosed.	0:09:07	0:09:13
-Every executive committee was more -downbeat than the one it succeeded.	0:09:15	0:09:20
-Elystan was seen as a potential -successor for the leadership.	0:09:20	0:09:25
-In 1964...	0:09:26	0:09:28
-..he stood -for the party's deputy leadership.	0:09:28	0:09:31
-Everyone assumed Elystan -would become deputy leader...	0:09:32	0:09:35
-..and Gwynfor's natural successor.	0:09:36	0:09:38
-But he was challenged -by Chris Rees...	0:09:38	0:09:42
-..who was exceptionally bright.	0:09:42	0:09:45
-Something strange happened.	0:09:45	0:09:47
-The pair of us were standing...	0:09:48	0:09:51
-..for the deputy leadership.	0:09:51	0:09:55
-As far as the North Wales and -Mid Wales branches were concerned...	0:09:55	0:10:00
-..no ballot forms were sent to them.	0:10:01	0:10:04
-They had to apply for a ballot slip.	0:10:05	0:10:07
-I can't say if there was any -significance to that but Chris won.	0:10:09	0:10:14
-He became deputy leader -and Elystan was rejected.	0:10:15	0:10:18
-I don't think it would've made that -much difference in the long run.	0:10:19	0:10:23
-Every time -I attended an executive meeting...	0:10:23	0:10:27
-..there were disputes and -conspiracies against Gwynfor...	0:10:27	0:10:33
-..I wondered what I was doing -amongst this bedlam.	0:10:33	0:10:36
-What changed the situation...	0:10:36	0:10:39
-..was the fact that -the Labour government of 1964...	0:10:39	0:10:42
-..created the role -of Secretary of State for Wales.	0:10:43	0:10:46
-I wanted a secretary for Wales...	0:10:46	0:10:49
-..and also -a Welsh Office in Cardiff.	0:10:49	0:10:52
-The creation -of a secretariat for Wales...	0:10:53	0:10:58
-..acknowledged it -as a country and as a nation.	0:10:58	0:11:01
-You don't appoint a secretary -for a department or a region.	0:11:01	0:11:05
-I remember thinking...	0:11:05	0:11:07
-..that anything was possible -after that.	0:11:08	0:11:11
-In the end, in 1965...	0:11:11	0:11:14
-..I decided to join -the Labour Party.	0:11:14	0:11:18
-I was at -the National Eisteddfod in Newtown.	0:11:21	0:11:25
-The late Dafydd Hughes came up to me -and said, "Elystan's gone.	0:11:25	0:11:30
-"He's left -and joined the Labour Party."	0:11:30	0:11:33
-It was a shock.	0:11:33	0:11:35
-ELYSTAN'S ASTOUNDING DECISION	0:11:35	0:11:39
-I'll continue to be a nationalist, -he says.	0:11:39	0:11:42
-I still maintain -I did the right thing.	0:11:43	0:11:45
-.	0:11:50	0:11:50
-Subtitles	0:11:53	0:11:53
-Subtitles - -Subtitles	0:11:53	0:11:55
-After leaving Plaid Cymru...	0:11:55	0:11:57
-..Elystan Morgan -returned to Ceredigion in 1966...	0:11:58	0:12:01
-..to stand as a Member of Parliament -for the Labour Party.	0:12:01	0:12:06
-I remember -the first time I met Elystan.	0:12:09	0:12:14
-It was on a Friday night -in Bridge Street, Aberystwyth...	0:12:14	0:12:18
-..at the Labour Party's office.	0:12:18	0:12:20
-I was meeting the new candidate...	0:12:20	0:12:24
-..who'd recently been selected.	0:12:24	0:12:27
-Good grief, -what an impression he made.	0:12:27	0:12:30
-I wasn't sure what to expect.	0:12:30	0:12:32
-People knew he'd left Plaid Cymru -and he was famous for that.	0:12:32	0:12:36
-Now he'd been chosen as -a potential candidate for Labour.	0:12:37	0:12:41
-There were a lot of doubters.	0:12:41	0:12:43
-But I have to say...	0:12:43	0:12:45
-..he won the entire audience over -just like that.	0:12:45	0:12:49
-He had remarkable presence.	0:12:50	0:12:52
-When I became a candidate, -I didn't think I was likely to win.	0:12:52	0:12:57
-I felt there was a grudge against -the Labour Party in Cardiganshire...	0:12:57	0:13:01
-..and that it'd be difficult -to overcome that.	0:13:02	0:13:04
-Cardiganshire is an island...	0:13:05	0:13:07
-..and is almost totally insulated...	0:13:07	0:13:10
-..from all the general trends -of British politics.	0:13:10	0:13:14
-Alwen and I had been canvassing -all around the county...	0:13:15	0:13:19
-..but mostly in the south.	0:13:19	0:13:21
-We came back to Penparcau...	0:13:21	0:13:23
-..where there was -a huge queue of people...	0:13:24	0:13:27
-..waiting their turn.	0:13:28	0:13:29
-It was somewhere around -seven or eight o'clock at night.	0:13:30	0:13:34
-Each of them gave me a thumb's up.	0:13:34	0:13:36
-I remember telling Alwen...	0:13:36	0:13:38
-.."It could happen."	0:13:39	0:13:41
-Dafydd Elystan, 11,000...	0:13:41	0:13:46
-LOUD CHEERING	0:13:46	0:13:48
-We found out -the following day that he'd won.	0:13:51	0:13:54
-Dad and Mam came back...	0:13:54	0:13:57
-..with a leather football for me -and blue roller skates for you.	0:13:57	0:14:01
-I remember that.	0:14:02	0:14:04
-The family -in the north of Cardiganshire...	0:14:04	0:14:07
-..emerged from everywhere -like rabbits!	0:14:07	0:14:10
-Someone'd say to me, "I've -never voted Labour, Morgans"...	0:14:10	0:14:14
-..as if he was saying -he'd never been to jail!	0:14:14	0:14:17
-"You're my fourth cousin."	0:14:18	0:14:20
-Another would say, "My grandmother -worked for your grandfather."	0:14:20	0:14:25
-I thought the world of them.	0:14:25	0:14:28
-I saw dozens of small -quarter-of-an-inch crosses...	0:14:28	0:14:32
-..but they were enough -to make up the 550 majority.	0:14:32	0:14:36
-For many of us -who are Labour members...	0:14:36	0:14:39
-..Welsh affairs...	0:14:39	0:14:41
-..are an integral part -of our socialism.	0:14:41	0:14:44
-Do you remember us taking Dad to the -London train on a Monday morning?	0:14:44	0:14:49
-Yes, every week.	0:14:49	0:14:51
-Yes, every week. - -Down to Borth.	0:14:51	0:14:52
-It was so early in the morning, -we'd go in our pyjamas.	0:14:53	0:14:57
-With an anorak over our pyjamas.	0:14:57	0:15:00
-We'd get up at six on a Monday -morning and it was always a race.	0:15:00	0:15:03
-If the signal was down in Glanwern, -the train was on its way...	0:15:04	0:15:07
-..and it was a real dash.	0:15:07	0:15:09
-But I remember the railway men -holding the train for him.	0:15:10	0:15:14
-They'd wait for him if he was late.	0:15:14	0:15:16
-He was on holiday one week -and hadn't told them.	0:15:16	0:15:19
-They phoned him at home on Monday to -say the train was waiting for him.	0:15:19	0:15:24
-Goes to show -how things have changed.	0:15:24	0:15:27
-If you look at Elystan's time -in Parliament from 1966-1974...	0:15:31	0:15:36
-..Labour won the highest number -of seats it's ever won in Wales...	0:15:36	0:15:40
-..in its history.	0:15:40	0:15:42
-It was a period of social change -and a time of great hope.	0:15:42	0:15:46
-Everyone felt hopeful -and confident about the future.	0:15:46	0:15:50
-Everything's happened very quickly.	0:15:50	0:15:53
-I never thought -it'd happen like this.	0:15:53	0:15:56
-I'd never -entertained the idea before.	0:15:56	0:16:02
-I became a Labour candidate -in no time at all...	0:16:03	0:16:06
-..became a member -a few months afterwards...	0:16:06	0:16:09
-..and then an MP two years later.	0:16:10	0:16:13
-I sometimes search -my head and my heart...	0:16:13	0:16:16
-..to consider if my motives -are merely for personal gain...	0:16:17	0:16:22
-..but I'm certain they are not.	0:16:23	0:16:25
-When I became a minister -at the Home Office in 1968...	0:16:26	0:16:30
-..it meant you had to -deal with these problems...	0:16:30	0:16:34
-..when the constituency -was 200 miles from Westminster.	0:16:34	0:16:38
-It was a small boundary -with 500 or more constituents.	0:16:38	0:16:43
-You were a minister -seven days a week.	0:16:44	0:16:46
-Things arose -and you had to deal with them.	0:16:47	0:16:50
-What I remember most -is the phone ringing non-stop.	0:16:50	0:16:54
-Non-stop.	0:16:54	0:16:56
-On weekends, -when things got too much...	0:16:56	0:16:59
-..they'd take the phone off the hook -and put cushions on top of it!	0:16:59	0:17:04
-The exchange would try to contact us -to say something was wrong.	0:17:04	0:17:08
-To see -if there was a fault on the line.	0:17:08	0:17:11
-I'd often hear my father cursing -about the phone.	0:17:11	0:17:16
-I didn't realize it at the time...	0:17:22	0:17:24
-..but when you have -a family of your own...	0:17:24	0:17:27
-..you realize how much -of a sacrifice it was for Mam.	0:17:27	0:17:31
-On top of what she did -as the wife of an MP...	0:17:31	0:17:34
-..and her work in the constituency -and with charities and so on...	0:17:34	0:17:39
-..she brought us up single-handedly -from Monday to Friday.	0:17:39	0:17:43
-She had to fit in...	0:17:43	0:17:45
-..with everything in the diary -as well as run the house.	0:17:45	0:17:49
-I'm sure it was tough.	0:17:49	0:17:51
-When I'm in London...	0:17:54	0:17:55
-..as Williams Pantycelyn would say, -"I'm a stranger here.	0:17:55	0:18:00
-"I'm a long way from my homeland."	0:18:00	0:18:03
-It's heavenly to return -on a Thursday or a Friday night...	0:18:03	0:18:07
-..to my home.	0:18:07	0:18:10
-But we did escape.	0:18:13	0:18:16
-In his spare time, -ever since I was a young boy...	0:18:16	0:18:20
-..we'd get up at about 5.00am -and go fishing in Plas-y-mynydd.	0:18:20	0:18:25
-He wrecked the car -getting up there, mind you!	0:18:25	0:18:28
-The garage -fitted a new exhaust on a Friday...	0:18:28	0:18:32
-..and he'd knocked it off -by the Sunday night!	0:18:32	0:18:35
-It was obvious, -even to a blind man...	0:18:38	0:18:41
-..that my time in the House -of Commons would be short-lived.	0:18:41	0:18:45
-It was never a case -of moving the family to London.	0:18:45	0:18:48
-Even if I'd had -a longer term there...	0:18:49	0:18:52
-..the idea of moving out of Wales...	0:18:52	0:18:55
-..went against -everything I believed.	0:18:55	0:18:58
-Elystan Morgan has been a Labour MP -in the county since 1966.	0:19:00	0:19:04
-He's currently the opposition's -spokesman for Welsh affairs.	0:19:04	0:19:08
-If you consider -what happened to Elystan in 1974...	0:19:08	0:19:12
-..there were -several factors at work.	0:19:12	0:19:15
-The Labour Party was gaining ground -in Britain during the '74 election.	0:19:15	0:19:20
-It was only in Wales -that it was losing ground.	0:19:20	0:19:23
-In 1974, those who would've voted -for Plaid Cymru in Ceredigion...	0:19:23	0:19:30
-..would've voted for Geraint Howells -in order to oust Elystan.	0:19:30	0:19:35
-Some kind of political evangelism -is happening in Wales at the moment.	0:19:36	0:19:41
-You're either saved because -you belong to a particular party...	0:19:41	0:19:45
-..or you're damned because -you belong to the wrong party.	0:19:45	0:19:49
-Part of that stems from the fact -he changed parties, of course...	0:19:49	0:19:54
-..but also because of the dispute...	0:19:54	0:19:57
-..over Welsh-medium -secondary education in Aberystwyth.	0:19:57	0:20:01
-There were two -secondary schools in Aberystwyth.	0:20:01	0:20:04
-Ysgol Dinas and Ardwyn Grammar -School, Elystan's former school.	0:20:05	0:20:09
-During the early '70s, there were -calls to change the system.	0:20:09	0:20:13
-A campaign was launched to introduce -Welsh-medium education in the town.	0:20:14	0:20:17
-I was part of a committee -campaigning for a bilingual school.	0:20:18	0:20:22
-We heard -that Elystan was against the idea.	0:20:22	0:20:25
-It was disappointing for us because -he was a staunch nationalist.	0:20:26	0:20:30
-It was disappointing -that he'd left the party.	0:20:30	0:20:33
-However, he was a Labour MP -and had considerable influence.	0:20:34	0:20:38
-Many of the college's -English contingent...	0:20:38	0:20:41
-..along with a few Welsh natives -were against it.	0:20:41	0:20:45
-I thought Elystan was against it -because his Labour supporters were.	0:20:45	0:20:49
-I remember -a public meeting was held...	0:20:50	0:20:54
-..at the Queen's Hotel -on the prom in Aberystwyth.	0:20:55	0:20:59
-A letter was read out -in that meeting.	0:20:59	0:21:02
-Elystan wanted the letter -to be read publicly.	0:21:02	0:21:06
-He said -he was against a bilingual school...	0:21:06	0:21:09
-..in a Welsh region such as this, -which was nonsense.	0:21:10	0:21:14
-When the Welsh school debate -arose...	0:21:15	0:21:17
-..I remember thinking...	0:21:17	0:21:19
-..I wonder -if it's possible in Aberystwyth...	0:21:20	0:21:24
-..to have -a Welsh-medium secondary school...	0:21:26	0:21:30
-..and an English-medium school -in one?	0:21:31	0:21:33
-So you had one school, one -headmaster, two different blocks.	0:21:34	0:21:38
-I still think such a school -would've been possible in the 1960s.	0:21:38	0:21:43
-It wouldn't be possible nowadays.	0:21:43	0:21:45
-The dispute became quite vicious.	0:21:45	0:21:48
-You were either in favour of a Welsh -school, of a classical nature...	0:21:48	0:21:53
-..or you were a traitor.	0:21:54	0:21:56
-I look back on it -as an unhappy chapter in my life.	0:21:57	0:22:01
-There was a fierce campaign, -vicious at times...	0:22:01	0:22:06
-..between parents in this region...	0:22:06	0:22:09
-..who were both in favour -and opposed to the school.	0:22:09	0:22:13
-I remember there was a meeting...	0:22:13	0:22:15
-..in which English as well as some -Welsh people were against the idea.	0:22:16	0:22:20
-More people were opposed to it.	0:22:21	0:22:23
-More people were opposed to it. - -For many Welsh-speaking natives...	0:22:23	0:22:25
-..it was a second betrayal -by Elystan.	0:22:25	0:22:28
-If his move from Plaid Cymru to the -Labour Party could be forgiven...	0:22:28	0:22:34
-..then there was no forgiving him...	0:22:34	0:22:37
-..for appearing to be spouting...	0:22:37	0:22:41
-..extreme anti-Welsh feeling...	0:22:41	0:22:44
-..within some circles -of the Labour Party in Ceredigion.	0:22:45	0:22:49
-As someone who's been through the -education system in Ceredigion...	0:22:50	0:22:55
-..I attended both schools, so I'm -not loyal to one in particular.	0:22:55	0:22:59
-There's a tendency to believe that -those who went to Penglais School...	0:22:59	0:23:04
-..certainly -when I was a pupil there...	0:23:05	0:23:07
-..that they were deprived of -their Welshness, to a large degree.	0:23:08	0:23:12
-Friends of mine -who'd gone away to university...	0:23:12	0:23:15
-..had trouble describing -to their new friends...	0:23:15	0:23:19
-..what it meant to be Welsh.	0:23:19	0:23:22
-One friend came back from university -and went to Lampeter to learn Welsh.	0:23:22	0:23:27
-The education system in Ceredigion -could've done that for him.	0:23:27	0:23:31
-Many things Elystan said...	0:23:32	0:23:35
-..to try and rationalize -his thoughts about it...	0:23:36	0:23:39
-..made perfect sense to residents -who'd attended those schools.	0:23:39	0:23:44
-It was a matter of principle -for Elystan.	0:23:45	0:23:47
-He thought it was a disadvantage -for Welsh speakers...	0:23:48	0:23:52
-..to be separated and segregated.	0:23:52	0:23:55
-It's an honourable argument -but a very unpopular one.	0:23:55	0:24:00
-I believe he lost a lot of support -because of that.	0:24:00	0:24:04
-We were defeated in Cardiganshire.	0:24:04	0:24:06
-We increased our votes.	0:24:07	0:24:09
-I was beaten by Geraint Howells, -a very affable man.	0:24:10	0:24:14
-It was disappointing -but not surprising.	0:24:15	0:24:18
-I feel very privileged -to have spent eight years...	0:24:19	0:24:23
-..as an MP for Cardiganshire.	0:24:23	0:24:26
-There was personal disappointment.	0:24:27	0:24:30
-He'd done that job for years...	0:24:31	0:24:33
-..what was he going to do now?	0:24:34	0:24:36
-The following day, you went from -having a job to being unemployed.	0:24:36	0:24:41
-You might expect me to say this...	0:24:42	0:24:45
-..but losing Elystan from -Welsh politics is a huge loss...	0:24:45	0:24:49
-..because he had -those innate skills...	0:24:50	0:24:53
-..that I believe are essential -for a leadership role in Wales.	0:24:55	0:25:00
-He didn't get the chance to lead, -and that's a pity.	0:25:00	0:25:05
-He was an MP for eight years.	0:25:05	0:25:07
-For two of them...	0:25:07	0:25:10
-..he served as a minister -at the Home Office.	0:25:10	0:25:13
-If Harold Wilson -had won the 1970 general election...	0:25:13	0:25:17
-..I hope he would've put Elystan -in the Welsh Office...	0:25:18	0:25:22
-..and because of Elystan's love -for Wales and his knowledge of it...	0:25:23	0:25:27
-..he would've made -a wonderful secretary.	0:25:28	0:25:31
-But it didn't happen -and then he lost his seat in 1974.	0:25:31	0:25:35
-But in 1979, who led the campaign...	0:25:36	0:25:39
-..for a parliament for Wales?	0:25:39	0:25:42
-Elystan.	0:25:42	0:25:44
-Either Wales -will take a bold step forward...	0:25:44	0:25:48
-..a progressive step of faith -and of confidence in its future...	0:25:48	0:25:53
-..or it will lurch into a miserable -retreat of defeatism and despair.	0:25:54	0:25:59
-Mr Morgan, thank you.	0:25:59	0:26:01
-.	0:26:01	0:26:02
-*	0:26:03	0:26:03
-Nowadays, the Senedd is an integral -part of Wales' political landscape.	0:26:03	0:26:08
-But during the 1970s, -devolution was still a dream.	0:26:08	0:26:12
-Those in favour of more powers -for Wales secured a referendum...	0:26:12	0:26:17
-..in 1979.	0:26:17	0:26:20
-So many of us believe...	0:26:21	0:26:24
-..that establishing -legislation for the language...	0:26:24	0:26:28
-..is a civil right and ensures the -continuation of the Welsh language.	0:26:29	0:26:33
-Like the rest of us...	0:26:33	0:26:35
-..Elystan threw his heart and soul -into the devolution campaign.	0:26:35	0:26:39
-The decision taken by the people -of Wales on March the first...	0:26:40	0:26:45
-..will be one of the most fateful in -the history of the nation of Wales.	0:26:45	0:26:50
-The biggest disappointment -for us all...	0:26:50	0:26:53
-..was the acrimonious split -within the Labour Party itself.	0:26:53	0:26:58
-Devolution's biggest enemy...	0:26:58	0:27:00
-..was Labour Party members -like Neil Kinnock.	0:27:01	0:27:04
-Now that -is very bad news for Britain.	0:27:04	0:27:08
-It could be an obituary notice for -this movement. That's the situation.	0:27:08	0:27:13
-I hadn't realized there was -so much hatred towards Welshness.	0:27:14	0:27:20
-Hatred from people who you assumed -didn't have an opinion...	0:27:20	0:27:24
-..one way or another, -but it was ingrained in them.	0:27:24	0:27:27
-You could forgive them if they said, -"I'm not interested"...	0:27:28	0:27:32
-..but it was hatred.	0:27:32	0:27:34
-Elystan accepted this role...	0:27:34	0:27:38
-..of leading -the referendum campaign...	0:27:38	0:27:40
-..when there was a glimmer of hope.	0:27:41	0:27:43
-It was clear months before the vote -that it wasn't going to happen...	0:27:43	0:27:47
-..but Elystan carried on in order -to keep the campaign going...	0:27:47	0:27:52
-..in a respectable way -when the likely outcome was obvious.	0:27:52	0:27:56
-We failed miserably.	0:27:56	0:27:59
-Four votes to one against.	0:27:59	0:28:01
-It was the biggest blow for me -in my public life.	0:28:03	0:28:07
-I felt as though -I'd let everyone down.	0:28:07	0:28:10
-I also felt perhaps -this was Wales' last chance...	0:28:10	0:28:14
-..and that the opportunity...	0:28:14	0:28:16
-..to make a significant -constitutional change had been lost.	0:28:16	0:28:20
-Dad was far more disappointed about -losing the referendum vote in '79...	0:28:20	0:28:26
-..than of losing -the parliamentary vote.	0:28:26	0:28:30
-I think he was shocked, -more than anything...	0:28:30	0:28:34
-..that they had been -so badly defeated.	0:28:34	0:28:37
-He thought the chance had been lost.	0:28:37	0:28:39
-He often said, "I'll never see -a Welsh parliament in my lifetime."	0:28:40	0:28:44
-He said that many a time -with tears in his eyes.	0:28:44	0:28:47
-Despite it being -an unsuccessful campaign...	0:28:47	0:28:51
-..he was still very influential -in many people's minds.	0:28:51	0:28:56
-The party was against him...	0:28:56	0:28:58
-..and I'm sure -it had an effect on the 1997 vote.	0:28:58	0:29:02
-That was -Elystan's greatest contribution.	0:29:02	0:29:05
-It was the boy -from Bow Street's dream...	0:29:08	0:29:11
-..to work in the legal profession.	0:29:11	0:29:14
-He graduated -from Aberystwyth in 1953.	0:29:15	0:29:17
-Shortly afterwards, he found a job -with a law firm in Wrexham.	0:29:18	0:29:22
-Elystan has a phenomenal memory.	0:29:23	0:29:27
-He can quote -English and Welsh poetry...	0:29:27	0:29:32
-..perfectly off by heart.	0:29:32	0:29:35
-I remember being at a party -with Elystan locally.	0:29:36	0:29:39
-We talked at length about books, -literature and poetry.	0:29:40	0:29:44
-I remember saying to him...	0:29:45	0:29:47
-.."I'd love to know -as much about law...	0:29:47	0:29:50
-"..as you know -about Welsh poetry."	0:29:51	0:29:54
-He said, "I'd love to know -as much about law...	0:29:54	0:29:58
-"..as I know about Welsh poetry!"	0:29:59	0:30:01
-He was joking, of course.	0:30:02	0:30:04
-He's one of our finest solicitors -and formidable legal minds.	0:30:04	0:30:09
-I was a partner at a law firm...	0:30:11	0:30:15
-..called Lloyd & Emyr Williams, -Wrexham, and I enjoyed it immensely.	0:30:15	0:30:20
-Most of the work centred around -conveyancing and probate.	0:30:20	0:30:24
-But I'd often go to court -and thoroughly enjoyed it.	0:30:24	0:30:28
-He's known as a man who can -sympathize with his fellow man.	0:30:29	0:30:35
-He shows understanding...	0:30:36	0:30:38
-..and realizes some people haven't -had the opportunities we've had...	0:30:38	0:30:43
-..and that their circumstances -are difficult.	0:30:43	0:30:46
-That was very evident -in the way he made his verdicts.	0:30:47	0:30:50
-I remember a court -chaired by a colonel...	0:30:52	0:30:56
-..who'd retired from the army.	0:30:57	0:30:59
-It was a very strange case.	0:30:59	0:31:01
-A case between father and son...	0:31:01	0:31:04
-..who were both farmers.	0:31:04	0:31:06
-They were honest people, -not very literate.	0:31:06	0:31:10
-There was a dispute between them -and a seed company or something...	0:31:11	0:31:16
-..if I remember rightly.	0:31:16	0:31:18
-In the end, a writ was issued...	0:31:18	0:31:21
-..against them.	0:31:22	0:31:25
-The bailiffs turned up -to administer the summons.	0:31:25	0:31:29
-The father and son -had taken ownership of the farm.	0:31:29	0:31:33
-They caught hold of the bailiff...	0:31:33	0:31:38
-..tied him with a rope -in the barn...	0:31:38	0:31:42
-..and the son went into the house -to fetch a 12-bore shotgun...	0:31:42	0:31:47
-..and loaded it with bullets.	0:31:47	0:31:49
-It was an awful thing to do.	0:31:49	0:31:51
-These people had totally -misunderstood the situation.	0:31:51	0:31:55
-For me, and it was -nothing less than the truth...	0:31:58	0:32:04
-..but it came down -to their illiteracy.	0:32:04	0:32:07
-They were monoglots.	0:32:07	0:32:09
-The colonel said, "Nonsense. There -are no monoglots in Wales today."	0:32:10	0:32:16
-I said, -"Well, sir, I beg to differ.	0:32:19	0:32:23
-"It may be that you yourself -are a monoglot."	0:32:24	0:32:27
-He was enraged.	0:32:27	0:32:30
-"And by that I mean -that if it be the case...	0:32:30	0:32:33
-"..that you are less than fluent in -any language other than English...	0:32:33	0:32:37
-"..that is what -I would describe as monoglot."	0:32:38	0:32:41
-There were Welsh speakers on -the bench and they agreed with me.	0:32:42	0:32:47
-In the end, the father and son -were found not guilty.	0:32:48	0:32:52
-Justice prevailed.	0:32:54	0:32:56
-But that's the kind of situation -you were faced with.	0:32:57	0:33:01
-You felt as if you were up against -a certain type of social pattern...	0:33:01	0:33:06
-..that belonged to the Middle Ages -rather than the 20th century.	0:33:06	0:33:11
-During his time -as a Member of Parliament...	0:33:14	0:33:17
-..Elystan still worked as a -solicitor and later as a barrister.	0:33:17	0:33:22
-After losing his seat, he returned -to work full time as a barrister.	0:33:23	0:33:27
-Then, in 1986, -he was appointed a judge.	0:33:28	0:33:31
-Half the time, -I worked on prosecutions.	0:33:33	0:33:36
-I was pleased with that...	0:33:36	0:33:38
-..as I'd spent most my time -as a prosecuting barrister.	0:33:38	0:33:42
-I spent the rest of my time -as a family court judge.	0:33:42	0:33:47
-This is very different work.	0:33:48	0:33:52
-What you try to do -is do what's best for the child.	0:33:54	0:33:57
-That doesn't necessarily mean that -you can always do what's just...	0:33:59	0:34:04
-..in the eyes of the parents.	0:34:04	0:34:07
-These are very serious decisions...	0:34:07	0:34:10
-..that will affect a child -for the rest of his life.	0:34:10	0:34:13
-When you're a judge -on prosecution cases...	0:34:14	0:34:17
-..you can impose a custodial -sentence, but that comes to an end.	0:34:17	0:34:22
-When you make a decision -about a child's future...	0:34:22	0:34:25
-..it affects his entire life.	0:34:25	0:34:27
-You get cases where you're listening -to the evidence for several days.	0:34:28	0:34:33
-Sometimes the mother -leaves the court jubilant...	0:34:35	0:34:40
-..because she's been -awarded custody of the children.	0:34:40	0:34:44
-The father has failed and feels -as if the world has caved in on him.	0:34:44	0:34:49
-It's important in those cases -that both parties realize...	0:34:50	0:34:54
-..that they continue -to be parents to those children...	0:34:54	0:34:58
-..and that they have -responsibilities...	0:34:58	0:35:01
-..if an adoption doesn't take place, -to be good parents all their lives.	0:35:01	0:35:06
-It's no surprise that -he made his mark as a barrister...	0:35:06	0:35:10
-..because he was very careful -and highly respected...	0:35:10	0:35:15
-..among solicitors and barristers.	0:35:15	0:35:18
-I've appeared before him -as a young solicitor.	0:35:18	0:35:22
-Of course, there were -numerous judges at the time...	0:35:22	0:35:26
-..who didn't like to see solicitors -leading crown and county courts.	0:35:26	0:35:31
-Many believed -only barristers should do that.	0:35:31	0:35:35
-He wasn't one of those.	0:35:35	0:35:37
-You always knew he'd be courteous -and that he'd be fair.	0:35:37	0:35:43
-It happens in all courts, -I don't doubt...	0:35:43	0:35:46
-..but he was -always very cautious in his job.	0:35:47	0:35:50
-He was ready to assist.	0:35:50	0:35:52
-His verdicts...	0:35:53	0:35:56
-..were examples -of perfect mastery....	0:35:56	0:35:59
-..of the Welsh and English language.	0:35:59	0:36:02
-If there's one thing that stands out -as Elystan's contribution...	0:36:02	0:36:07
-..to the legal world in Wales...	0:36:07	0:36:10
-..I'd choose his efforts to ensure -the Welsh language in our courts.	0:36:10	0:36:14
-He promoted the use of the language.	0:36:15	0:36:17
-He helped translate legal documents.	0:36:18	0:36:23
-He ensured they were used -throughout the courts...	0:36:23	0:36:27
-..especially those in North Wales.	0:36:27	0:36:30
-And, of course, when he sat...	0:36:30	0:36:33
-..Welsh was used every day...	0:36:34	0:36:36
-..and there's nothing better -than that to promote the language...	0:36:36	0:36:40
-..and make it clear that Welsh -is acceptable in our courts.	0:36:41	0:36:45
-After a career as a solicitor, -barrister and judge...	0:36:48	0:36:51
-..Elystan returned to Westminster.	0:36:52	0:36:55
-Britain's legal and political world -is very important to him.	0:36:55	0:36:59
-I think it was Shaw who said...	0:37:00	0:37:02
-.."Scratch an Englishman -and you'll find a Conservative."	0:37:02	0:37:07
-That conservatism -is deeply ingrained in England.	0:37:07	0:37:11
-.	0:37:20	0:37:20
-Subtitles	0:37:21	0:37:21
-Subtitles - -Subtitles	0:37:21	0:37:23
-Solicitor, politician, -MP, Home Office Minister...	0:37:25	0:37:29
-..barrister and judge.	0:37:29	0:37:31
-But to lifelong friends, -Lord Elystan Morgan...	0:37:32	0:37:35
-..is still the same mischievous lad -from Bow Street.	0:37:35	0:37:39
-I often think to myself...	0:37:40	0:37:42
-..when I see him on television...	0:37:43	0:37:45
-..or in chapel -on a Sunday morning...	0:37:45	0:37:48
-..the mannerly judge and lord...	0:37:48	0:37:51
-..that lurking -just behind that exterior...	0:37:51	0:37:56
-..is the Elystan I know.	0:37:56	0:37:59
-A mischievous creature.	0:37:59	0:38:03
-He'll never change.	0:38:03	0:38:05
-I very much hoped -there'd be a Labour government.	0:38:11	0:38:15
-I expected it -to be a minority government...	0:38:15	0:38:18
-..but I was astounded -that the Tories took such a lead...	0:38:18	0:38:22
-..after five years in power.	0:38:22	0:38:25
-I think they're cheekier now -than they were in a coalition.	0:38:25	0:38:30
-In my opinion, the Liberals were -very unwise to unite with them.	0:38:32	0:38:38
-They were shackled, -to a certain degree.	0:38:39	0:38:43
-Now those have gone...	0:38:43	0:38:45
-..we see conservatism laid bare.	0:38:45	0:38:49
-I've no doubt about that.	0:38:49	0:38:51
-When you think about it -from Wales' perspective...	0:38:52	0:38:55
-..there's -a historical connection to it.	0:38:56	0:38:59
-The Ballot Act was passed in 1872...	0:38:59	0:39:03
-..which meant landowners -could no longer use their sway...	0:39:03	0:39:07
-..to influence the votes of tenant -farmers, who risked being evicted.	0:39:07	0:39:13
-Ever since then, -the Tories have never succeeded...	0:39:13	0:39:17
-..in any parliamentary election, -a Westminster election, that is...	0:39:17	0:39:22
-..to win a majority in Wales - -either of seats or of votes.	0:39:22	0:39:26
-It says a lot - -over a lengthy period of time...	0:39:26	0:39:30
-..if ever there was -an anti-Tory country or nation...	0:39:30	0:39:34
-..then it's ours.	0:39:34	0:39:36
-One of Elystan's characteristics...	0:39:40	0:39:42
-..that is perhaps unfamiliar -to everyone who knows him well...	0:39:43	0:39:48
-..is his tendency to sob.	0:39:49	0:39:52
-Honestly, to sob.	0:39:52	0:39:55
-When he quotes a particular poem...	0:39:55	0:40:00
-..or reads specific poetry...	0:40:00	0:40:02
-..he has a tendency to break down.	0:40:02	0:40:05
-I think that's -an endearing characteristic.	0:40:06	0:40:09
-There are -many things that move me to tears.	0:40:09	0:40:13
-A particular piece -of music or poetry.	0:40:13	0:40:16
-Or circumstances I hear about.	0:40:18	0:40:21
-I'm an emotional creature.	0:40:21	0:40:23
-There's one poem...	0:40:24	0:40:26
-..he often asks me to recite.	0:40:26	0:40:29
-It's by R Williams Parry, -about a doctor who dies...	0:40:29	0:40:33
-..and the poet visits his grave.	0:40:33	0:40:35
-It's called Yr Hen Ddoctor, -about Dr Edward Rees, Caersws.	0:40:36	0:40:41
-"I knocked -on the familiar door last night	0:40:41	0:40:44
-"Where many a traveller -was welcomed to Caersws	0:40:44	0:40:49
-"But my knocking was in vain, -the doctor wasn't at home."	0:40:49	0:40:53
-Someone tells him -his home is elsewhere now.	0:40:53	0:40:57
-"I rushed through Caersws -and found his new dwelling	0:40:57	0:41:02
-"I reached a solitary green, -where I knocked at the door	0:41:02	0:41:07
-"Though my knocking was in vain, -the doctor was at home."	0:41:07	0:41:10
-By this point, Elystan's sobbing.	0:41:10	0:41:12
-That's the meeting -after you won the election.	0:41:19	0:41:22
-Yes, that's right.	0:41:23	0:41:25
-They put a picture -of the House of Commons on stage.	0:41:25	0:41:28
-It made a wonderful screen.	0:41:29	0:41:32
-That was the House of Lords in 1981.	0:41:32	0:41:35
-You two were at home with Mam.	0:41:35	0:41:37
-I don't know -if it's the robe or not...	0:41:37	0:41:40
-..but I've never looked so pompous -in all my life!	0:41:40	0:41:44
-I think the robe -contributes somewhat to that.	0:41:44	0:41:48
-I think life became more difficult -for Elystan after losing Alwen.	0:41:48	0:41:54
-She was -the best possible wife for Elystan.	0:41:56	0:41:58
-He told me once...	0:41:59	0:42:01
-..that he found summer holidays -way too long...	0:42:01	0:42:05
-..because there's only -so many times you can trim a hedge.	0:42:06	0:42:10
-For someone -with Elystan's mind and energy...	0:42:10	0:42:13
-..he constantly wants to be working.	0:42:13	0:42:16
-My advice to the government -therefore would be...	0:42:17	0:42:20
-..in the words of Corporal Jones...	0:42:20	0:42:23
-.."Don't panic."	0:42:23	0:42:25
-Devolution is indeed -the birth-right of this nation.	0:42:25	0:42:31
-Nowadays, almost everything brought -before the House of Commons...	0:42:32	0:42:37
-..is timed to precision.	0:42:38	0:42:40
-There are complaints -that there isn't enough time...	0:42:40	0:42:44
-..to discuss legislation -properly and at length.	0:42:44	0:42:48
-However, in the House of Lords, -and following on from tradition...	0:42:49	0:42:53
-..there's no restrictions on time.	0:42:54	0:42:56
-If the House of Lords wants a month -to discuss something, it's granted.	0:42:56	0:43:00
-Debates in the House of Lords -are lengthy and important...	0:43:01	0:43:06
-..in order to reinforce laws.	0:43:06	0:43:09
-They also iron out mistakes -made by the House of Commons...	0:43:09	0:43:12
-..due to laws being rushed through.	0:43:13	0:43:15
-The case -for the Cardiff Assembly was...	0:43:15	0:43:18
-..that there had been, -under section 108, a transfer...	0:43:19	0:43:24
-It's a comfort to know there are -people like Dafydd Wigley...	0:43:25	0:43:29
-..and Elystan Morgan there...	0:43:29	0:43:32
-..to interpret -on behalf of the Welsh nation.	0:43:32	0:43:35
-It's important they're there -to make a cross-party contribution.	0:43:35	0:43:40
-For me, as someone -from a Labour background...	0:43:40	0:43:43
-..it's refreshing -to see someone who's comfortable...	0:43:43	0:43:47
-..in his nationalistic guise -within that party...	0:43:48	0:43:52
-..as opposed to someone...	0:43:53	0:43:55
-..who's leading the way for -many people on the left, perhaps...	0:43:55	0:43:59
-..and not yet found -his place in Plaid Cymru...	0:43:59	0:44:03
-..but who shows you can -still be loyal to Welsh affairs...	0:44:03	0:44:08
-..and the Welsh language -and so on...	0:44:08	0:44:11
-..without necessarily -being a member of Plaid Cymru...	0:44:11	0:44:15
-..and that everyone -has a role to play.	0:44:15	0:44:18
-There's more of a demand -for clear, loud voices...	0:44:18	0:44:23
-..from -a Welsh nationalist party...	0:44:23	0:44:26
-..in Welsh politics -in Cardiff and Westminster...	0:44:27	0:44:30
-..more than ever before.	0:44:30	0:44:32
-There's an urgent need -for a major boost once again...	0:44:33	0:44:36
-..especially when there's talk -of increasing AM numbers...	0:44:37	0:44:42
-..from 60 at present, -which is outrageously low.	0:44:42	0:44:46
-By the time you've extracted -ministers, chairpersons...	0:44:47	0:44:51
-..and those -with administrative roles...	0:44:51	0:44:54
-..it leaves you with 40 people.	0:44:54	0:44:57
-How on earth can you sustain a -parliament under such circumstances?	0:44:57	0:45:01
-If you want to make it impossible -for that parliament...	0:45:02	0:45:06
-..to carry out its daily functions, -then do nothing...	0:45:06	0:45:10
-..and leave -that lamentable situation alone.	0:45:10	0:45:13
-There's no need to be a prophet -to foresee that Welsh affairs...	0:45:19	0:45:23
-..will have a prominent place -in the new parliament.	0:45:23	0:45:26
-Perhaps his greatest achievement -was his greatest failure...	0:45:27	0:45:31
-..which was his leadership of the -Yes campaign in the '79 referendum.	0:45:31	0:45:36
-Someone had to carry that burden.	0:45:36	0:45:40
-Remember the poem, -"Why did you give me this sadness?"	0:45:40	0:45:44
-There's no bigger sadness -than leading the '79 Yes campaign.	0:45:44	0:45:48
-But he did that with dignity...	0:45:48	0:45:51
-..because he thought -it was his duty to do so.	0:45:51	0:45:54
-People who try -to portray Elystan's decisions...	0:45:55	0:45:58
-..especially that decision to leave -Plaid Cymru for the Labour Party...	0:45:58	0:46:04
-..as a decision -driven by personal ambition...	0:46:04	0:46:09
-..are misinterpreting the man.	0:46:09	0:46:12
-There are two types of politician.	0:46:12	0:46:15
-One who wants to be somebody and -one who wants to fulfil something.	0:46:15	0:46:19
-Elystan wanted to fulfil something -and seize every opportunity.	0:46:19	0:46:24
-Apart from a few -old-fashioned commentators...	0:46:24	0:46:27
-..Elystan knows more poems by memory -than most people.	0:46:28	0:46:31
-I think he's also -a self-effacing man.	0:46:31	0:46:34
-After his departure -from Plaid Cymru in 1964...	0:46:34	0:46:39
-..he put up with -a lot of criticism...	0:46:39	0:46:42
-..some of which was venomous.	0:46:42	0:46:46
-I'm sure some of that venom -affected Elystan's spirit...	0:46:46	0:46:50
-..so much so that he adopted -that self-effacing character.	0:46:50	0:46:55
-It wasn't a fake self-effacement.	0:46:55	0:46:58
-He became self-effacing -to protect himself.	0:46:58	0:47:01
-I remember asking him -to become deputy president...	0:47:02	0:47:05
-..and he said, "Why me? -I was an unsuccessful solicitor...	0:47:05	0:47:10
-"..and a judge of sorts."	0:47:10	0:47:12
-Well, yes and no.	0:47:13	0:47:15
-He might not have -made his fortune as a barrister...	0:47:16	0:47:19
-..or scaled the heights -as a judge...	0:47:19	0:47:23
-..but there's a grandeur -belonging to Elystan.	0:47:23	0:47:26
-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.	0:47:44	0:47:46
-.	0:47:46	0:47:46

Yr Arglwydd Elystan

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