Hillsborough: Yr Hunllef Hir


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Hillsborough: Yr Hunllef Hir

Dylan Llewelyn sy'n edrych 'nôl ar drychineb Hillsborough gan siarad ag Ian Rush a John Barnes, a nifer o ffans. Dylan Llewelyn's emotional journey looking back at the Hillsboro...


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-I can't see or hear

-the name Hillsborough...

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-..without remembering

-the events of 1989.

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-I saw almost 100 people die

-right in front of me on that day.

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-It sends a shiver down my spine.

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-A real shiver,

-like pins and needles.

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-It's entirely physical.

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-This should be the happiest day

-of your life, going to a semi-final.

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-This shouldn't happen

-at a football match.

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-The fear that loved ones

-weren't coming home...

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-..was just something

-I wouldn't wish on anybody.

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-It was absolutely dreadful.

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-I was haemorrhaging.

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-Blood was pouring out of my nose.

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-Naturally, you'd wipe it away...

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-..but I couldn't raise a finger.

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-It was a day I wanted to forget...

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-..but you don't forget

-days like that.

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-It stays with you forever.

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-The disaster is people dying.

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-The tragedy was the way

-the bereaved families were treated.

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-I feel guilty to this day.

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-I froze on the spot,

-I didn't help anyone.

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-I have to live with that.

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-This afternoon, Sheffield

-witnessed the greatest disaster...

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-..in the history

-of British football.

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-The gates were opened

-and the crowd entered the terrace.

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-The crush was unbearable.

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-On April 15, 1989, at

-Hillsborough Stadium, Sheffield...

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-..96 men, women and children

-were killed...

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-..after being crushed to death

-on the Leppings Lane terrace.

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-What I saw on that day

-still casts a shadow over my life.

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-When I work on Sgorio

-on Saturdays...

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-..and hear of a goal at

-Hillsborough, I'm right back there.

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-I've found it difficult

-to talk about it for over 25 years.

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-I know I'm not alone.

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-I've supported Liverpool

-since I was a little boy.

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-Every game for lads living on the

-Llyn Peninsula is like an away game.

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-We'd set off in the morning,

-the four of us in a car.

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-Arwel from Y Ffor, his father, Arwel

-driving, and Andrew from Nefyn.

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-It's a winding journey

-across the Pennines.

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-We would listen to Radio Cymru...

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-..until we lost the signal.

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-I was a teacher in Glan Clwyd.

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-I worked occasionally

-for Radio Cymru.

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-They needed a commentator

-for the game in Hillsborough.

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-I'd prepared meticulously

-for the match.

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-This was also my semi-final.

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-We had three tickets

-for Leppings Lane.

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-They were seated tickets

-above the terrace.

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-Dylan was in another stand.

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-I was meeting a college friend

-who lived in Sheffield.

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-I met him for a pint

-before the game...

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-..and arranged to meet the others

-after the game.

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-Mam knew I wanted

-to swap my ticket...

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-..to get two terrace tickets

-in the Leppings Lane end with him.

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-It was a beautiful day.

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-No-one knew what the team was.

-We'd had our pre-match.

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-It was just a typical

-morning of a game.

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-I met up with Paul and he decided

-that if he took the ticket...

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-..he'd deprive a Liverpool fan

-of a ticket.

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-He told me to go

-and watch the game.

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-I set off just after two

-and headed towards Hillsborough.

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-As I walked over the bridge

-approaching Leppings Lane...

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-..I could see a lot of people

-had congregated.

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-About twenty past two, the crowd

-became more dense at Leppings Lane.

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-In that tightly-defined area that is

-the turnstile out of concourse...

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-..they were queuing up, turnstiles

-weren't working very well.

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-The queue developed into a crowd.

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-What I remember more than anything

-is a mounted policeman...

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-..and the horse was there

-to keep the supporters in check.

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-The horse was stuck

-in the middle of the supporters.

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-I can still see the policeman

-and the horse as I've arrived here.

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-There were 60 gates or turnstiles

-for 30,000 Nottingham Forest fans.

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-There were only 23 at this end for

-over 24,000 Liverpool supporters.

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-This area filled quickly

-and the turnstiles couldn't cope.

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-It was obvious to see

-what was about to happen.

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-It rubs salt in the wounds to

-read the match programme of the day.

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-There's a photograph

-of the 1988 semi-final.

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-Here's Leppings Lane. I'm in

-there somewhere and it's packed.

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-Sheffield Wednesday's chairman,

-Bert McGee...

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-..described Hillsborough

-as the perfect venue.

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-The experience of fans

-at Hillsborough in the '80s...

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-..and specifically

-the terraces of Leppings Lane...

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-..differed greatly

-to Bert McGee's description.

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-There was serious overcrowding

-during semi-finals...

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-..in 1981, 1987 and 1988.

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-We'd watched Liverpool's semi-final

-at Hillsborough the previous year.

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-Liverpool against Nottingham Forest,

-the same teams, the same location.

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-Back then a policeman

-would check your ticket...

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-..before allowing you through.

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-Without a ticket,

-you couldn't get through.

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-Closer still,

-your ticket was checked again.

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-There was nothing like that in '89.

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-I'd been trying to get a ticket for

-Chris to come in the stands with me.

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-Chris said, "Can I go in

-the Leppings Lane with Jason?"

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-I said, "No, son,

-I was in there last year.

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-"I got in to Pen 3

-and it's not very comfortable.

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-"In fact, I would say, Chris,

-it's not safe."

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-He came back about 10 minutes later

-and he asked me again.

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-"Chris, I've just told you, no."

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-He came back a third time and said,

-"Dad, I wanna be with all the boys.

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-"There's 10 of us."

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-I said yes and I don't know

-as I look at you now why I said yes.

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-They arrived in a joyous mood.

-This was a semi-final.

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-There was no violence,

-there was no heavy crush.

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-There was no people shouting at each

-other. It was still a great mood.

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-And then suddenly,

-people became trapped.

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-It was very clear that

-in the build-up to three o'clock...

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-..that people outside would die

-if that crush wasn't alleviated.

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-When I reached the front,

-it was chaotic.

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-"Get in, get in, get in."

-No-one checked your ticket.

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-No-one took my ticket

-or ripped it in half.

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-In I went.

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-I remember saying

-I don't think we'll start on time.

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-With so many people trying to get

-in, I thought they'd delay kick-off.

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-Teams were coming out as I sat down.

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-I was glad I was in my seat.

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-It was a relief to escape the crush.

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-Looking back I think I'd have been

-better off out of there...

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-..without seeing what I saw.

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-.

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-Subtitles

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-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

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-In the minutes

-before the 3.00pm kick-off...

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-..thousands of Liverpool fans...

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-..were waiting

-outside the gates of Leppings Lane.

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-The responsibility for the match

-in 1989 is very clear.

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-The Football Association

-hired the stadium...

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-..from Sheffield Wednesday

-Football Club.

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-Sheffield Wednesday

-had a responsibility...

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-..for gaining a safety certificate

-for the ground...

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-..from the Sheffield City Council.

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-That safety certificate

-would provide the foundation...

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-..for it to be hired out

-to the Football Association.

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-None of that worked on the day.

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-The safety certificate was out of

-date and all the authorities failed.

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-I'd stood on Leppings Lane before.

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-The greatest thrill...

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-..was standing behind the goal and

-seeing your team score towards you.

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-Since it was a semi-final,

-it was packed there.

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-Fans were packed in tight,

-very tight.

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-It wasn't comfortable in '88

-but nothing happened.

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-I never thought there was a danger

-in what I was doing.

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-It was like surfing in the crowd,

-forward, to the side and back.

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-I was never scared

-but I sometimes held my breath...

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-..and thought,

-"What's going on here?"

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-A few seconds later,

-everything would die down...

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-..and you found your place again

-but that didn't happen that day.

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-South Yorkshire Police

-were responsible...

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-..for policing Hillsborough.

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-19 days before the game,

-Chief Constable Peter Wright...

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-..appointed Chief Inspector

-David Duckenfield...

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-..as supervisor of the semi-final.

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-Duckenfield had no experience of

-controlling a game at Hillsborough.

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-On the day, he briefed

-his officers in the stadium.

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-There was a lot of scepticism

-from officers about his capability.

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-Then remarkably, he goes missing.

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-He leaves the stadium,

-nobody knows where he goes...

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-..except his driver and

-he's never revealed where they went.

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-He doesn't return until 2.00pm.

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-This is a major, major match.

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-It's his first major match...

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-..and he goes missing for two hours

-in the lead-up to the game.

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-Then he's the position

-of having to take decisions...

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-..in a stadium

-that he's unfamiliar with.

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-Senior officers at the highest level

-in South Yorkshire Police...

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-..allowed an inexperienced police

-officer in policing football...

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-..to take that role on.

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-When you come in

-through the turnstiles...

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-..the first thing

-that you see is this tunnel.

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-At the end of the tunnel,

-you can see some of the pitch.

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-That's like a magnet

-that attracts the fans to it.

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-I'd reached the end of the tunnel

-and I thought, "It's too full here.

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-"Let's move to the side."

-And that's what we did.

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-The control box is above

-the Leppings Lane terrace.

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-It was clear

-that those central pens were packed.

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-They could see with their own eyes

-that they were packed.

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-Even more incredible, pens one

-and two, which were below them...

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-..they could see they were

-completely underpopulated.

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-They should have sealed

-the tunnel...

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-..and ensured the

-underpopulated areas were filled.

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-But they had this policy

-in South Yorkshire Police...

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-..which is

-fans will find their own level.

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-That's OK,

-if you have an open terrace.

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-Fans will find their own level.

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-They go sideways or others

-go sideways to make space for them.

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-But they were going into

-literal pens.

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-Like cattle pens, you know.

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-A massive fence at the front

-with spikes coming in.

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-Fences on either side.

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-A brick wall behind you

-and no way back up the tunnel.

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-The tunnel was full

-as people were coming down.

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-I was in the North Stand.

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-When they'd got in,

-after about 10 minutes...

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-..looking at

-the Leppings Lane end...

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-..looking for Christopher wearing

-a Welsh international rugby shirt...

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-..and as time got towards 2.50pm...

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-..I'm thinking,

-"There's something wrong here."

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-Those two pens, three and four,

-were heaving.

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-There was a marked difference

-from where I was to the centre area.

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-I thought to myself, "There are a

-lot of gaps here. It's quite empty."

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-Usually, 2.55pm before a game,

-everywhere would be full.

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-Everyone would be there in time.

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-There were so many supporters

-outside Leppings Lane...

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-..it would have taken another

-40 minutes to let them in safely.

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-The man responsible

-for policing this area...

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-..was Chief Inspector

-Roger Marshall.

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-He's policed Hillsborough many times

-but not that area.

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-He phones through

-to the control box.

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-He asks Duckenfield

-to open the gates.

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-Duckenfield hesitates then orders

-the opening of the gates.

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-The gates are opened

-but what Duckenfield doesn't do...

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-..is say seal the tunnel.

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-The tunnel remains open,

-fans come in...

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-..but once they went down

-a one-in-six gradient tunnel...

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-..they couldn't get back up.

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-The crush became a compression

-in the central pens.

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-No way out sideways, forwards...

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-..and people are crushed up

-against the fence.

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-The pile of bodies

-at the front of pen three was high.

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-In the five minutes

-between 2.52 and 2.57...

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-..2,000 fans entered

-through Gate C...

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-..most heading towards the tunnel to

-the terrace which was already full.

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-I remember an incredible atmosphere

-in the game.

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-I was excited, as a commentator,

-and glad to be there.

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-I remember Liverpool attacking

-early in the game...

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-..and Peter Beardsley shooting

-and hitting the bar.

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-Then you saw Liverpool supporters

-climbing the radial fences...

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-..and the perimeter fences.

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-People were climbing up the wall

-to get to the stand above.

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-As time went on, you thought

-something serious is happening here.

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-It didn't dawn on a lot of people

-what was actually going on.

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-Even though you're on the bench,

-you're concentrating on the game.

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-You never know when you'll come on.

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-When people are on the pitch,

-you realise something's wrong.

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-I first thought there might be

-some trouble going on.

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-Hooliganism was a problem

-in the '80s in English football.

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-That was my initial thought.

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-At 3.06 the game was stopped.

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-I became very, very cold,

-I was frightened for Chris.

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-It got worse. I don't think I've

-ever experienced coldness like it.

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-I still didn't think

-that people had died.

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-You associate people dying

-with blood and horrific scenes.

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-Everything just stopped when

-I saw one supporter carried away.

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-There was a jacket over his face.

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-I was just absolutely besotted

-and worried about Chris.

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-The lad who was sat next to me

-had a transistor radio.

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-I said, "What have they said?"

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-He said, "There's five dead."

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-I said, "You're joking.

-Nobody dies at a football match."

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-Soon news filtered through

-to the press that fans had died.

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-The producer in Cardiff

-was talking to me on the phone.

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-I said, "What do I do?

-I'm hearing that people have died.

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-"Am I allowed to say that?"

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-I didn't have experience

-of being in that situation.

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-I was told that if the news

-had come from an official source...

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-..I could say that.

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-I had to break the news knowing that

-there were listeners in Wales...

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-..or wherever they were listening...

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-..that they had fans, relatives

-and friends at the game.

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-What did they think?

-You had to be very sensitive.

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-I don't think

-we said very much at all.

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-Both of us couldn't believe

-what we were seeing.

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-We thought it was a pitch invasion

-so we went into the dressing room.

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-We heard shouting

-and Kenny went out.

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-"Kenny, people are dying out there."

-We heard all of this.

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-Upstairs, on the TV, we could see

-what was going on. It was a shock.

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-There were police officers

-pounding the chests of young kids.

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-That was to their credit.

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-However, there must

-have been another 200...

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-..across the halfway line,

-doing absolutely nothing.

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-Every big event has

-an operational order for policing.

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-If you look at

-the operational orders...

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-..both for 1989 and 1988...

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-..1989 was a replica of '88

-even down to the spelling mistakes.

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-There's not a word on ground safety.

-There's not a word on crowd safety.

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-It's all about crowd control.

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-I've been to enough matches to know

-that the police standing there...

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-..is to stop opposing fans meeting.

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-Looking back, the minutes

-and seconds that passed...

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-..what they could have done

-at Leppings Lane.

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-It takes several minutes

-before ambulances are mobilised...

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-..ambulances arrive.

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-There's no organisation because no

-emergency plan had been activated.

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-Every major event has an emergency

-plan and an activation point.

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-None of that occurred.

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-People are picked up, carried

-on hoardings, mainly by fans.

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-It's complete chaos.

0:19:450:19:46

-It was a very surreal feeling...

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-..but it was as if

-I had my head underwater.

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-I could hear things

-but I couldn't make sense of it all.

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-Everything was odd.

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-Seeing these people

-ripping up advertising boards...

0:20:000:20:03

-..carrying people,

-trying to administer CPR.

0:20:030:20:07

-I did nothing but stand and watch.

0:20:070:20:09

-There was nothing to assist

-in the rescue.

0:20:100:20:13

-No defibrillators,

-no oxygen was available...

0:20:130:20:17

-..it all came down to people like

-you and I bending over bodies...

0:20:170:20:23

-..and trying to breathe air

-into lifeless lungs.

0:20:230:20:26

-You only have minutes to resuscitate

-somebody in that condition.

0:20:260:20:31

-I'd gone to a football match.

0:20:340:20:36

-I didn't expect to see things

-like that in a football match.

0:20:360:20:41

-It was like a nightmare.

0:20:410:20:43

-It was hard to say if you were

-seeing dead bodies in front of you.

0:20:430:20:51

-I could just see lifeless bodies.

0:20:510:20:55

-I wasn't sure

-if they were dead or not.

0:20:550:20:59

-They probably were but at the time

-you didn't want to think they were.

0:20:590:21:04

-You could see the supporters...

0:21:070:21:10

-..looking helplessly

-at their friends in front of them.

0:21:140:21:19

-I wasn't sure what I was seeing.

0:21:190:21:22

-Graham Kelly, the secretary

-of the Football Association...

0:21:230:21:27

-..comes into the control box and

-asks Duckenfield what is going on.

0:21:270:21:31

-He says Liverpool fans

-broke the door.

0:21:320:21:35

-They broke the exit gate C

-and rushed into the stadium.

0:21:360:21:40

-Not only did they not arrive late...

0:21:400:21:44

-..not only did they

-not break down the door...

0:21:440:21:48

-..they never rushed.

0:21:480:21:49

-They walked.

-It's there on his own CCTV.

0:21:500:21:53

-Back then, there was no way

-of contacting someone.

0:21:550:21:58

-There were no mobile phones.

0:21:590:22:01

-There was no Facebook,

-Twitter or Snapchat.

0:22:010:22:04

-I'd gone. "I'll see you tonight."

-That was the message.

0:22:040:22:08

-When I phoned home and spoke to Mam,

-I sensed the relief in her voice.

0:22:080:22:13

-She'd seen on TV

-someone with a jersey like mine.

0:22:130:22:16

-When I was on the phone,

-Dylan's mother was in Mam's house.

0:22:170:22:21

-She asked about Dylan and we said

-he wasn't with us at that time.

0:22:210:22:24

-I was trying to say it in a way

-that didn't cause panic.

0:22:260:22:29

-We'd seen Nain and Taid

-the previous week.

0:22:310:22:34

-We'd planned to go out for a spin

-in the car for an hour or two.

0:22:350:22:39

-We put the radio on and heard

-that the game had been stopped...

0:22:400:22:44

-..because something

-had happened on the pitch.

0:22:440:22:47

-I was thinking about Dylan.

0:22:480:22:49

-He'd said he'd try to swap

-the tickets and that bothered me.

0:22:500:22:54

-I managed to find a phone in

-a flower shop outside the stadium.

0:22:540:23:00

-I phoned home

-to confirm I was alright.

0:23:010:23:03

-We have to be grateful

-to the people of Sheffield.

0:23:040:23:07

-What they did that day,

-they opened their doors.

0:23:070:23:10

-Houses, shops, everything, if you

-wanted to phone home to allay fears.

0:23:100:23:15

-Not everyone was able

-to make that call.

0:23:160:23:18

-The rendezvous point that we'd

-arranged to meet on Halifax Road...

0:23:190:23:23

-..all I wanted was to see Chris.

0:23:240:23:26

-As I looked up,

-there was Jason, Chris' mate.

0:23:260:23:29

-Steven and Paul. There was no Chris.

0:23:290:23:33

-Jason said to me, I said,

-"Where's Chris?"

0:23:380:23:40

-He said, "Barry, you're gonna

-have to expect the worst."

0:23:400:23:44

-I said, "What do you mean, the

-worst?" He said, "Chris is dead."

0:23:440:23:47

-.

0:23:490:23:49

-Subtitles

0:23:540:23:54

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

0:23:540:23:56

-The journey home from Sheffield,

-back over the Pennines...

0:24:010:24:06

-..was so difficult.

0:24:060:24:07

-One of British football's greatest

-tragedies happened at 3.07pm.

0:24:080:24:13

-The police stories

-were spreading by then.

0:24:130:24:16

-They claimed fans had broken down

-a gate, rushed into the stadium...

0:24:170:24:21

-Unfortunately for some,

-it was too late.

0:24:210:24:24

-Blankets and coats were placed

-over the faces of many.

0:24:240:24:27

-The radio was on in the car.

-We heard how many had died.

0:24:280:24:32

-It's 10, 15, 20, 30, 40...

0:24:320:24:36

-..it's 50.

0:24:370:24:38

-We had an old-fashioned radio

-in the car.

0:24:390:24:43

-I wanted to switch it off.

0:24:430:24:45

-If we switched the radio off,

-the number wouldn't rise anymore.

0:24:450:24:50

-In 1988, we returned home with

-our scarves flying outside the car.

0:24:510:24:55

-Horns blaring, everyone in a

-good mood - we were off to Wembley.

0:24:550:24:59

-This year,

-the story was completely different.

0:24:590:25:03

-It felt like a black cloud

-was following us all the way home.

0:25:050:25:10

-Alun, how are you? Are you OK?

0:25:130:25:15

-How are you keeping? Are you OK?

0:25:150:25:17

-Nice to see you.

0:25:170:25:19

-I remember walking down the tunnel

-hearing the fans singing.

0:25:210:25:25

-I thought I'd get

-a better view behind the goal.

0:25:250:25:28

-I headed that way.

0:25:280:25:30

-You know, get it on, yeah.

0:25:310:25:33

-I was standing

-in front of a barrier.

0:25:340:25:36

-This lad was standing next to me

-and he had a young boy with him.

0:25:360:25:40

-He said to me,

-"There's something wrong here.

0:25:400:25:43

-"Help me push back

-so I can pick the boy up."

0:25:430:25:46

-It was quite a job at that time.

0:25:480:25:50

-That was a good quarter of an hour

-before it happened.

0:25:500:25:56

-I remember him telling the boy

-to go over the top, to get away.

0:25:570:26:03

-He did go but he came back crying.

0:26:030:26:07

-I remember him crying.

0:26:070:26:09

-People behind me were saying,

-"Help him, do something."

0:26:090:26:15

-I couldn't raise a finger,

-let alone anything else.

0:26:160:26:19

-I was stuck.

-I was stuck, stuck by the barrier.

0:26:220:26:25

-I couldn't move an inch.

0:26:250:26:27

-Nothing.

0:26:270:26:28

-There's a lot of guilt, but...

0:26:310:26:33

-I still don't know

-what happened to that little boy.

0:26:360:26:40

-The man next to me,

-I remember when I was pulled out...

0:26:410:26:44

-..I could see blood pouring

-from his nose and eyes.

0:26:440:26:47

-He'd been crushed.

0:26:480:26:50

-He didn't make it.

0:26:500:26:52

-Did you think you'd die there?

0:26:520:26:54

-What I remember...

0:26:550:26:56

-..I was haemorrhaging,

-blood was pouring out of my nose.

0:26:560:27:00

-Naturally, you'd wipe your face

-but I couldn't raise a finger.

0:27:050:27:10

-When I was halfway out,

-the barrier behind me collapsed.

0:27:100:27:16

-That's when I felt my ribs,

-like a pack of cards, just...

0:27:160:27:22

-It's something I'm trying to forget.

-It's difficult.

0:27:280:27:32

-It is difficult.

0:27:330:27:34

-I was going

-in and out of consciousness.

0:27:390:27:45

-I thought it was just a dream.

0:27:450:27:47

-I could hear screaming

-and shouting.

0:27:470:27:50

-Lots of swearing.

0:27:520:27:54

-I remember lying

-on one of the advertising boards.

0:27:540:27:59

-Waheels of Sheffield or something.

-I remember that.

0:27:590:28:03

-I was face down.

0:28:030:28:06

-Looking down.

-There were bodies to the side.

0:28:070:28:11

-There was one,

-he was a bigger lad than me.

0:28:170:28:21

-He was lying

-with his arms up like that.

0:28:210:28:24

-A coat over his face.

0:28:240:28:26

-Your brain is trying to forget

-what happened.

0:28:330:28:37

-Trying to put it in a cupboard

-and close the door.

0:28:380:28:41

-There are things, small things,

-that bring it back to you.

0:28:410:28:45

-Wherever you put it,

-wherever the cupboard...

0:28:460:28:50

-..it's always there.

0:28:500:28:52

-Yes, yes, it doesn't matter.

0:28:520:28:54

-It always comes back to you.

0:28:540:28:56

-It's there for you, it'll never go.

-It'll never go.

0:28:570:29:01

-The shock, more than anything,

-was how easy someone could die.

0:29:120:29:17

-Too many people in one place...

0:29:180:29:20

-..squeezing the life

-out of each other.

0:29:200:29:22

-I was lucky but because I was lucky,

-someone else was less fortunate.

0:29:230:29:28

-They had the ticket

-I'd had the previous year.

0:29:280:29:31

-It was the first day

-I'd ventured out with my daughter.

0:29:340:29:37

-She'd only be a few weeks old.

-I decided to go to Bolton, shopping.

0:29:370:29:42

-By the time I got home,

-there was a bit of a panic going on.

0:29:420:29:46

-Our Andrew

-was at the football match.

0:29:460:29:48

-He was a big lad, as a security

-guard he could take care of himself.

0:29:490:29:53

-He often went to football matches.

0:29:530:29:55

-I can't say at that point

-I was perturbed.

0:29:560:29:58

-It had been drummed into us

-as children...

0:29:590:30:01

-..whether we were arriving

-or leaving somewhere...

0:30:010:30:05

-..to give Mum three rings.

0:30:050:30:06

-No rings came

-so it became more troubling.

0:30:070:30:09

-My mum and my dad and my husband

-set off across the Pennines.

0:30:090:30:14

-We went to the first hospital. The

-people were absolutely hysterical.

0:30:200:30:24

-I shouted out above everybody...

0:30:250:30:27

-.."Do you have a young man wearing

-a Welsh international rugby shirt?"

0:30:270:30:32

-They said no.

0:30:320:30:34

-I said, "Do you have a Christopher

-Devonside?" They said no.

0:30:340:30:39

-We went to another hospital

-and it was the same scenario.

0:30:390:30:42

-Six hours after leaving the stadium

-to search for his son...

0:30:440:30:49

-..Barry Devonside was called back

-to the stadium's gym...

0:30:490:30:53

-..where the bodies of most

-of the dead were being kept.

0:30:530:30:57

-We went inside and they brought

-Chris in a body bag and opened it.

0:30:580:31:03

-I bent down to kiss his forehead.

0:31:040:31:06

-A police officer got hold of me

-and pulled me back.

0:31:060:31:09

-I turned around and shoved him.

0:31:090:31:11

-How dare he invade my space

-in a situation like this?

0:31:120:31:16

-My husband identified

-three different people...

0:31:160:31:20

-..and finally it was the third one

-that was Andrew.

0:31:200:31:24

-He told my mum

-he thought it was Andrew.

0:31:240:31:26

-She wanted to identify Andrew...

0:31:270:31:29

-..but only made it so far down

-the corridor and my mum collapsed.

0:31:290:31:34

-Two higher ranking police officers

-were walking down the corridor...

0:31:340:31:39

-..having a conversation

-and stepped over her...

0:31:390:31:43

-..and carried on walking.

0:31:430:31:45

-The vast, vast majority

-of the families...

0:31:470:31:50

-..would be very hard pushed

-to find any kindnesses that night.

0:31:500:31:55

-The Coroner, Dr Stefan Popper...

0:31:580:32:01

-..decided to test the blood

-alcohol level of each body...

0:32:010:32:05

-..including a 10-year-old boy.

0:32:050:32:08

-The first question

-they were asked was...

0:32:090:32:11

-..had their loved one been drinking?

0:32:110:32:13

-He said, "We're trying to build up

-a picture of everybody's day.

0:32:140:32:18

-"Did you stop on the way

-to have a meal and a drink?"

0:32:190:32:22

-I said, "What's that got to do

-with identification?"

0:32:220:32:25

-He asked me five questions

-and every answer I gave was...

0:32:260:32:29

-.."What's that got to do

-with identification?"

0:32:290:32:32

-To be interrogated as if

-in some way your loved one or you...

0:32:320:32:37

-..had some sort of bad reputation

-was just dreadful.

0:32:370:32:41

-The disaster is people dying.

0:32:410:32:44

-The tragedy was the way the bereaved

-families and survivors were treated.

0:32:440:32:49

-I was petrified

-of what Jackie was going to say.

0:32:500:32:53

-Many years ago, she said,

-when I first started taking Chris...

0:32:530:32:58

-.."If you bring Chris home hurt,

-me and you will have a problem."

0:32:580:33:02

-And I wasn't bringing Chris home.

0:33:020:33:05

-And...

0:33:050:33:06

-She opened the door,

-she was waiting for me.

0:33:080:33:11

-We just threw our arms

-around each other.

0:33:120:33:14

-She never said a word

-about what she'd said years ago.

0:33:140:33:18

-Cheek to cheek and she said to me...

0:33:180:33:20

-.."There's 17 dead so far, Barry."

0:33:200:33:23

-I said,

-"Jack, there's 81 dead so far."

0:33:230:33:26

-We went in

-and all the relatives were there.

0:33:270:33:29

-I didn't want to speak to anybody.

0:33:290:33:31

-I just wanted Chris back home.

0:33:320:33:34

-The next morning, Margaret Thatcher

-arrived with Douglas Hurd.

0:33:390:33:45

-When I challenged Bernard Ingham,

-the Press Secretary...

0:33:450:33:49

-..with regard to what

-had happened in that meeting...

0:33:490:33:52

-..he said, "I know what I learned

-there on the day.

0:33:530:33:56

-"That Liverpool fans

-broke into the stadium."

0:33:570:34:00

-In other words, Liverpool fans

-killed Liverpool people.

0:34:000:34:04

-Now who did he learn that from?

0:34:050:34:07

-There were no fans

-or doctors talking to him.

0:34:070:34:10

-It was senior police officers...

0:34:110:34:13

-..and most significantly,

-the Chief Constable Peter Wright.

0:34:130:34:17

-Anfield became the focal point

-for grief.

0:34:190:34:22

-Kenny Dalglish took his

-Liverpool squad to the hospitals...

0:34:220:34:26

-..to visit those hurt

-in Leppings Lane...

0:34:260:34:28

-..and also to the funerals.

0:34:290:34:31

-While Liverpool and their families

-buried their supporters...

0:34:310:34:34

-..a story was emerging

-from Sheffield.

0:34:350:34:38

-I'm sick of seeing on television

-these instant experts...

0:34:380:34:42

-..telling us that if there'd been

-police inside those gates...

0:34:420:34:46

-..funnelling people

-into the outer areas...

0:34:460:34:48

-..this wouldn't have happened.

0:34:490:34:50

-I'm saying to you

-that if police had been in there...

0:34:510:34:54

-..when this mob surged through...

0:34:550:34:57

-..the officers

-would've been trampled to death.

0:34:570:34:59

-Certain members of the police,

-plus the local MP, Irvine Patnick...

0:35:000:35:05

-..plus the head

-of the Police Federation...

0:35:050:35:08

-..had approached journalists

-and given them a story...

0:35:080:35:13

-..that Liverpool fans

-had stolen from the dead...

0:35:130:35:16

-..that Liverpool fans had broken in

-and violence had cause the disaster.

0:35:170:35:21

-Kelvin MacKenzie wanted

-that headline to be You Scum.

0:35:220:35:25

-I've supported Liverpool

-for 30 years.

0:35:280:35:31

-I'm not claiming

-that Liverpool fans are angels...

0:35:310:35:35

-..but they would never do

-such a thing.

0:35:350:35:37

-What was said about them

-was shameful.

0:35:370:35:39

-Can you imagine a human being doing

-things a newspaper said about them?

0:35:400:35:45

-That was more shocking than the

-lies - that people believed them.

0:35:450:35:50

-In the days that followed...

0:35:530:35:55

-..Arwel and I spoke

-and we decided to raise money.

0:35:560:35:59

-I visited the offices

-of a local newspaper in Pwllheli.

0:36:000:36:04

-A woman stood behind me

-in the queue.

0:36:050:36:07

-She said,

-"Aren't those hooligans a disgrace?"

0:36:070:36:10

-I asked her why

-she was saying something like that.

0:36:110:36:14

-"I didn't mean you, Dylan,"

-she replied.

0:36:150:36:18

-She meant someone else.

0:36:180:36:20

-That's the message

-that reached Pwllheli...

0:36:200:36:23

-..a few days after the tragedy.

0:36:230:36:25

-The Sun was so confident

-in their story.

0:36:260:36:29

-It changed the entire view

-of Hillsborough...

0:36:290:36:31

-..in the national consciousness.

0:36:320:36:34

-We went from people feeling empathy

-towards those who died...

0:36:340:36:39

-..to feeling absolute abhorrence to

-Liverpool fans and Liverpool people.

0:36:390:36:45

-West Midlands Police were appointed

-to conduct an external inquiry...

0:36:460:36:51

-..with Lord Justice Taylor

-leading the official investigation.

0:36:510:36:55

-Taylor found that police failure

-was mostly to blame for the tragedy.

0:36:570:37:02

-He criticised them

-for blaming the supporters.

0:37:030:37:06

-The inquest into the deaths

-opened in November 1990.

0:37:080:37:12

-Coroner Dr Stefan Popper found

-that all those who died...

0:37:130:37:18

-..suffered their mortal injuries

-before 3.15pm.

0:37:180:37:22

-It was a contentious decision

-which meant that...

0:37:220:37:25

-..the emergency services' response

-after that time was not scrutinised.

0:37:250:37:29

-During the inquest...

0:37:300:37:31

-..the police continued

-to criticise the Liverpool fans.

0:37:320:37:36

-We see allegations

-around drunkenness...

0:37:380:37:41

-..allegations around ticketless,

-violence and late arrival.

0:37:420:37:46

-They were the four pillars

-of the police case.

0:37:460:37:49

-That was played out

-in what was then...

0:37:500:37:53

-..the longest inquest

-in legal history.

0:37:530:37:56

-Ignoring the findings

-of Lord Justice Taylor...

0:37:570:38:00

-..the inquest's verdict in

-March 1991 was 'accidental death'.

0:38:010:38:05

-When that came back

-as accidental death...

0:38:060:38:09

-..that was just stunning, really.

0:38:090:38:12

-That was probably the point

-at which it became really obvious...

0:38:120:38:16

-..that this was a real fight.

0:38:170:38:19

-In 1991, David Duckenfield

-faced a disciplinary case.

0:38:190:38:23

-When he retired early on a full

-pension, the case wasn't pursued.

0:38:230:38:28

-Five years later,

-Professor Phil Scraton discovered...

0:38:280:38:32

-..that the evidence

-of many officers at Hillsborough...

0:38:320:38:36

-..had been doctored and altered...

0:38:370:38:39

-..to omit any criticism

-of the police on the day.

0:38:400:38:43

-What I realised at that point...

0:38:470:38:48

-..was that Lord Justice Taylor knew,

-the Home Office knew...

0:38:490:38:53

-..all the investigating bodies

-knew...

0:38:530:38:56

-..the investigating force knew,

-they all knew.

0:38:560:38:59

-It's not one-off, it's systemic.

-It's institutionalised.

0:39:000:39:04

-That was the discovery.

0:39:040:39:06

-I knew that as soon as I saw it.

0:39:070:39:09

-In 1997, Lord Justice Stuart-Smith

-was appointed...

0:39:120:39:16

-..to scrutinise the evidence

-for the new Labour government.

0:39:160:39:20

-Despite the findings

-of Professor Phil Scraton...

0:39:200:39:23

-..he rejected an appeal

-to quash the inquest's findings.

0:39:240:39:27

-It was noted that no basis existed

-to open a new case.

0:39:270:39:30

-The next step was a private

-prosecution for manslaughter...

0:39:310:39:35

-..against Duckenfield

-and Bernard Murray in 2000.

0:39:360:39:39

-The jury failed to reach a decision

-against Duckenfield...

0:39:410:39:45

-..who refused to give evidence.

0:39:450:39:47

-Murray was found not guilty.

0:39:470:39:49

-The South Yorkshire Police

-Authority paid their court costs.

0:39:490:39:54

-There are two elements -

-what happened on the day...

0:39:560:39:59

-..and the 25 years and more

-of pain...

0:40:000:40:05

-..lies and vilification and that's

-been a burden for Liverpool fans.

0:40:050:40:09

-"You did it.

0:40:100:40:12

-"You broke in, you didn't have

-tickets, you were drunk and so on."

0:40:140:40:19

-Had people been drinking?

-Yes, of course.

0:40:190:40:22

-It happens in every game

-and at every occasion.

0:40:220:40:25

-But... that doesn't mean...

0:40:250:40:29

-..they killed their own supporters.

0:40:290:40:32

-I couldn't believe...

0:40:340:40:36

-..that here we were in 2000

-with all this evidence...

0:40:360:40:40

-..and we were now entering a decade

-where nothing happened.

0:40:400:40:45

-This is when you start to see

-other family members dying.

0:40:460:40:51

-You see survivors taking their own

-lives, survivors not being believed.

0:40:510:40:56

-It was total despondency.

0:40:560:40:58

-I can't tell you what the real

-number is of people who died...

0:40:580:41:02

-..as a direct consequence of

-what they endured at Hillsborough...

0:41:020:41:07

-..or after Hillsborough.

0:41:070:41:09

-.

0:41:090:41:09

-Subtitles

0:41:150:41:15

-Subtitles

-

-Subtitles

0:41:150:41:17

-The guilt I feel,

-it's not there every day...

0:41:220:41:26

-..but it's there

-in the subconsciousness.

0:41:260:41:30

-I'm guilty of being lucky.

0:41:300:41:32

-I'm guilty of having a ticket

-in a different place.

0:41:330:41:37

-I'm guilty that I stood there

-and did nothing to help anyone.

0:41:370:41:45

-I just stood, silently,

-like a statue.

0:41:450:41:48

-I feel guilty sometimes

-that I'm sharing my feelings.

0:41:520:41:57

-I haven't grieved, I didn't

-lose anyone, I wasn't injured.

0:41:570:42:02

-I feel guilty because it feels

-as if I'm craving attention...

0:42:020:42:05

-..but that's not true.

0:42:060:42:07

-I feel guilty that I'm still saying

-that we need to fight for justice...

0:42:080:42:14

-..when it didn't affect my life.

0:42:140:42:17

-I was there, I'm a Liverpool fan.

0:42:170:42:20

-A lot more people have suffered

-a lot more than I have.

0:42:200:42:25

-I feel guilty.

-I feel guilty for feeling guilty.

0:42:250:42:29

-It can tear you apart.

0:42:290:42:31

-Liverpool is close to our hearts

-in North Wales.

0:42:380:42:43

-Close to our spirit.

0:42:430:42:45

-It's a no-nonsense city. If there's

-something to say, it will be said.

0:42:450:42:51

-Thank goodness for that.

0:42:510:42:54

-A lot of people would have given up.

0:42:540:42:57

-Never pick on the people of

-Liverpool because they'll come back.

0:42:580:43:03

-It's an amazing city.

-They did pick on the wrong people.

0:43:040:43:07

-They're unbelievable.

0:43:080:43:09

-Annual Hillsborough Memorial Service

-April 15, 2009

0:43:100:43:13

-20 years after the tragedy,

-a politician was invited...

0:43:140:43:17

-..for the first time to speak at the

-annual memorial service in Anfield.

0:43:180:43:23

-We can pledge that 96 fellow

-football supporters who died...

0:43:230:43:28

-..will never be forgotten.

0:43:280:43:30

-Justice.

0:43:300:43:31

-And he asks us to think

-at this time...

0:43:320:43:34

-Andy Burnham, the Culture Secretary,

-received a simple message.

0:43:350:43:39

-# Justice for the 96

0:43:390:43:42

-# Justice for the 96

0:43:420:43:45

-# Justice for the 96

0:43:450:43:48

-# Justice for the 96

0:43:480:43:51

-# Justice for the 96 #

0:43:510:43:53

-He promised to release every

-document to try and find the truth.

0:43:530:43:58

-The independent Hillsborough panel

-was set up...

0:44:030:44:06

-..to examine almost

-half a million documents...

0:44:060:44:10

-..led by the Archbishop of Liverpool

-and Professor Phil Scraton.

0:44:100:44:15

-Their findings were published

-on September 12, 2012.

0:44:150:44:19

-It was a beautiful

-September morning.

0:44:230:44:25

-I stood on the steps

-of the Anglican cathedral.

0:44:260:44:29

-I looked across my city

-and the river.

0:44:290:44:32

-I knew this was a defining

-moment in their lives and my life.

0:44:320:44:36

-I guess, at that moment,

-I knew history had been made.

0:44:360:44:40

-What I didn't anticipate

-was all that came after.

0:44:410:44:44

-The panel concluded

-that the authorities were to blame.

0:44:460:44:50

-There was no foundation to

-allegations against the supporters.

0:44:500:44:54

-A better response

-by the emergency services...

0:44:540:44:58

-..could have saved 40 lives.

0:44:580:45:00

-The results of the first inquest,

-of accidental death, was quashed.

0:45:020:45:06

-A new inquest was opened

-in Warrington and lasted two years.

0:45:060:45:10

-The jury's decision

-on April 26, 2016...

0:45:100:45:15

-..was that failures by the police

-and authorities led to the tragedy.

0:45:150:45:19

-The behaviour of the supporters

-was not a contributing factor.

0:45:200:45:24

-The 96 had been unlawfully killed.

0:45:240:45:27

-# You'll never walk alone #

0:45:270:45:31

-When the verdicts came through,

-it was as if emotionally...

0:45:320:45:36

-..I went scrunch...

0:45:360:45:38

-..gone.

0:45:390:45:41

-And from that minute on, it went.

0:45:410:45:44

-All the... all the angst, all the

-pressure, all the feeling of duty...

0:45:440:45:49

-..the feeling of burden

-that came with being...

0:45:500:45:53

-..the last standing member

-to represent Andrew in that way...

0:45:530:45:57

-..all just went.

0:45:580:45:59

-When justice was finally done,

-that was a good feeling.

0:46:000:46:05

-You just wanted to say,

-"Well, we told you so."

0:46:050:46:09

-I was walking through Liverpool

-and a guy threw his arms around me.

0:46:100:46:15

-I didn't know him and he said,

-"For the first time in 27 years...

0:46:150:46:19

-"..I walk through this city

-with my head held high."

0:46:190:46:22

-And that was a person

-who'd survived Hillsborough.

0:46:230:46:27

-Hello.

0:46:300:46:31

-Hello.

-

-Cuppa? I've made one already.

0:46:310:46:33

-27 years have passed...

0:46:340:46:36

-..but I've never spoken openly

-about my feelings with Mam and Dad.

0:46:360:46:42

-I don't want to bother them.

0:46:420:46:44

-It might be easier

-to shut things out.

0:46:440:46:47

-Every time he talks about it,

-he starts to well up.

0:46:500:46:54

-I think it's really affected him.

0:46:540:46:57

-He still feels that way,

-that feeling of guilt.

0:46:570:47:01

-He came away unscathed

-and others didn't.

0:47:010:47:04

-He still relives that moment.

0:47:040:47:07

-The campaign of the families

-for justice continues.

0:47:100:47:14

-The decision to prosecute

-individuals or institutions...

0:47:150:47:19

-..is in the hands

-of the Crown Prosecution Service.

0:47:200:47:23

-Almost 28 years since the tragedy...

0:47:230:47:26

-..time will tell

-if people will wake up...

0:47:260:47:29

-..from the long nightmare

-of Hillsborough.

0:47:290:47:33

-It's something that will leave

-a mark on me forever...

0:47:330:47:37

-..but it didn't stop me

-going to support Liverpool.

0:47:370:47:41

-Deep down, you'll have them scars

-for the rest of your life.

0:47:440:47:48

-It's something that you've seen

-and something that will be there.

0:47:490:47:53

-It's 27, 28 years. It's a hell

-of a long time not to give up.

0:47:530:47:56

-They won't. Even though they've won

-the case, there's more to come.

0:47:570:48:01

-It still won't bring back

-their loved ones.

0:48:010:48:04

-I think there's an idea somehow...

0:48:040:48:07

-..that being forever young...

0:48:070:48:10

-..is something to be desired.

0:48:110:48:14

-Actually, there's nothing to be

-desired of being forever young.

0:48:140:48:18

-You don't experience life.

0:48:190:48:22

-I miss...

0:48:220:48:24

-I miss what he didn't become.

0:48:270:48:30

-I miss him every single day.

0:48:300:48:33

-I think about him

-morning, noon and night.

0:48:330:48:36

-There's no way their lives

-should have been snuffed out...

0:48:360:48:40

-..in the way that it did.

0:48:400:48:42

-Chris was everything

-to Jackie and I.

0:48:420:48:46

-We will never, as a family,

-get over losing Chris.

0:48:470:48:51

-I think things are easier since

-the inquest jury cleared us...

0:49:060:49:10

-..of the allegation that

-we killed 96 of our own supporters.

0:49:100:49:14

-Families have proven that it's

-possible for the small person...

0:49:140:49:18

-..to overcome the big institutions

-by standing their ground.

0:49:180:49:22

-There might be a lesson

-for us all there.

0:49:220:49:25

-We were right.

0:49:250:49:27

-We told the truth

-right from the start.

0:49:270:49:31

-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf.

0:50:010:50:03

-.

0:50:030:50:04

Dylan Llewelyn sy'n edrych 'nôl ar drychineb Hillsborough gan siarad ag Ian Rush a John Barnes, a nifer o ffans. Dylan Llewelyn's emotional journey looking back at the Hillsborough disaster.