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-I can't see or hear -the name Hillsborough... | 0:00:04 | 0:00:07 | |
-..without remembering -the events of 1989. | 0:00:07 | 0:00:10 | |
-I saw almost 100 people die -right in front of me on that day. | 0:00:12 | 0:00:16 | |
-It sends a shiver down my spine. | 0:00:18 | 0:00:21 | |
-A real shiver, -like pins and needles. | 0:00:21 | 0:00:26 | |
-It's entirely physical. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:28 | |
-This should be the happiest day -of your life, going to a semi-final. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
-This shouldn't happen -at a football match. | 0:00:35 | 0:00:37 | |
-The fear that loved ones -weren't coming home... | 0:00:40 | 0:00:43 | |
-..was just something -I wouldn't wish on anybody. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
-It was absolutely dreadful. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:49 | |
-I was haemorrhaging. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:53 | |
-Blood was pouring out of my nose. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:56 | |
-Naturally, you'd wipe it away... | 0:00:59 | 0:01:02 | |
-..but I couldn't raise a finger. | 0:01:02 | 0:01:05 | |
-It was a day I wanted to forget... | 0:01:07 | 0:01:09 | |
-..but you don't forget -days like that. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:12 | |
-It stays with you forever. | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
-The disaster is people dying. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:18 | |
-The tragedy was the way -the bereaved families were treated. | 0:01:19 | 0:01:23 | |
-I feel guilty to this day. | 0:01:25 | 0:01:27 | |
-I froze on the spot, -I didn't help anyone. | 0:01:27 | 0:01:30 | |
-I have to live with that. | 0:01:32 | 0:01:34 | |
-This afternoon, Sheffield -witnessed the greatest disaster... | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
-..in the history -of British football. | 0:02:01 | 0:02:03 | |
-The gates were opened -and the crowd entered the terrace. | 0:02:03 | 0:02:06 | |
-The crush was unbearable. | 0:02:07 | 0:02:09 | |
-On April 15, 1989, at -Hillsborough Stadium, Sheffield... | 0:02:09 | 0:02:13 | |
-..96 men, women and children -were killed... | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
-..after being crushed to death -on the Leppings Lane terrace. | 0:02:16 | 0:02:19 | |
-What I saw on that day -still casts a shadow over my life. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:24 | |
-When I work on Sgorio -on Saturdays... | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
-..and hear of a goal at -Hillsborough, I'm right back there. | 0:02:28 | 0:02:32 | |
-I've found it difficult -to talk about it for over 25 years. | 0:02:34 | 0:02:38 | |
-I know I'm not alone. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:40 | |
-I've supported Liverpool -since I was a little boy. | 0:02:47 | 0:02:51 | |
-Every game for lads living on the -Llyn Peninsula is like an away game. | 0:02:51 | 0:02:56 | |
-We'd set off in the morning, -the four of us in a car. | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
-Arwel from Y Ffor, his father, Arwel -driving, and Andrew from Nefyn. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
-It's a winding journey -across the Pennines. | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
-We would listen to Radio Cymru... | 0:03:07 | 0:03:10 | |
-..until we lost the signal. | 0:03:10 | 0:03:12 | |
-I was a teacher in Glan Clwyd. | 0:03:15 | 0:03:17 | |
-I worked occasionally -for Radio Cymru. | 0:03:17 | 0:03:20 | |
-They needed a commentator -for the game in Hillsborough. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
-I'd prepared meticulously -for the match. | 0:03:25 | 0:03:28 | |
-This was also my semi-final. | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
-We had three tickets -for Leppings Lane. | 0:03:33 | 0:03:36 | |
-They were seated tickets -above the terrace. | 0:03:37 | 0:03:40 | |
-Dylan was in another stand. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
-I was meeting a college friend -who lived in Sheffield. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:48 | |
-I met him for a pint -before the game... | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
-..and arranged to meet the others -after the game. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
-Mam knew I wanted -to swap my ticket... | 0:03:54 | 0:03:56 | |
-..to get two terrace tickets -in the Leppings Lane end with him. | 0:03:57 | 0:04:01 | |
-It was a beautiful day. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:04 | |
-No-one knew what the team was. -We'd had our pre-match. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:08 | |
-It was just a typical -morning of a game. | 0:04:09 | 0:04:11 | |
-I met up with Paul and he decided -that if he took the ticket... | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
-..he'd deprive a Liverpool fan -of a ticket. | 0:04:15 | 0:04:18 | |
-He told me to go -and watch the game. | 0:04:18 | 0:04:21 | |
-I set off just after two -and headed towards Hillsborough. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:25 | |
-As I walked over the bridge -approaching Leppings Lane... | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
-..I could see a lot of people -had congregated. | 0:04:30 | 0:04:34 | |
-About twenty past two, the crowd -became more dense at Leppings Lane. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:41 | |
-In that tightly-defined area that is -the turnstile out of concourse... | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
-..they were queuing up, turnstiles -weren't working very well. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:51 | |
-The queue developed into a crowd. | 0:04:51 | 0:04:53 | |
-What I remember more than anything -is a mounted policeman... | 0:04:55 | 0:04:59 | |
-..and the horse was there -to keep the supporters in check. | 0:05:00 | 0:05:04 | |
-The horse was stuck -in the middle of the supporters. | 0:05:04 | 0:05:08 | |
-I can still see the policeman -and the horse as I've arrived here. | 0:05:08 | 0:05:13 | |
-There were 60 gates or turnstiles -for 30,000 Nottingham Forest fans. | 0:05:15 | 0:05:21 | |
-There were only 23 at this end for -over 24,000 Liverpool supporters. | 0:05:21 | 0:05:27 | |
-This area filled quickly -and the turnstiles couldn't cope. | 0:05:27 | 0:05:31 | |
-It was obvious to see -what was about to happen. | 0:05:31 | 0:05:35 | |
-It rubs salt in the wounds to -read the match programme of the day. | 0:05:35 | 0:05:39 | |
-There's a photograph -of the 1988 semi-final. | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
-Here's Leppings Lane. I'm in -there somewhere and it's packed. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:47 | |
-Sheffield Wednesday's chairman, -Bert McGee... | 0:05:47 | 0:05:51 | |
-..described Hillsborough -as the perfect venue. | 0:05:51 | 0:05:54 | |
-The experience of fans -at Hillsborough in the '80s... | 0:06:01 | 0:06:04 | |
-..and specifically -the terraces of Leppings Lane... | 0:06:04 | 0:06:07 | |
-..differed greatly -to Bert McGee's description. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
-There was serious overcrowding -during semi-finals... | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
-..in 1981, 1987 and 1988. | 0:06:15 | 0:06:17 | |
-We'd watched Liverpool's semi-final -at Hillsborough the previous year. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:24 | |
-Liverpool against Nottingham Forest, -the same teams, the same location. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:29 | |
-Back then a policeman -would check your ticket... | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
-..before allowing you through. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
-Without a ticket, -you couldn't get through. | 0:06:37 | 0:06:39 | |
-Closer still, -your ticket was checked again. | 0:06:40 | 0:06:43 | |
-There was nothing like that in '89. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
-I'd been trying to get a ticket for -Chris to come in the stands with me. | 0:06:48 | 0:06:53 | |
-Chris said, "Can I go in -the Leppings Lane with Jason?" | 0:06:54 | 0:06:58 | |
-I said, "No, son, -I was in there last year. | 0:06:58 | 0:07:01 | |
-"I got in to Pen 3 -and it's not very comfortable. | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
-"In fact, I would say, Chris, -it's not safe." | 0:07:05 | 0:07:08 | |
-He came back about 10 minutes later -and he asked me again. | 0:07:10 | 0:07:13 | |
-"Chris, I've just told you, no." | 0:07:13 | 0:07:15 | |
-He came back a third time and said, -"Dad, I wanna be with all the boys. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:20 | |
-"There's 10 of us." | 0:07:20 | 0:07:22 | |
-I said yes and I don't know -as I look at you now why I said yes. | 0:07:22 | 0:07:28 | |
-They arrived in a joyous mood. -This was a semi-final. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:32 | |
-There was no violence, -there was no heavy crush. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:36 | |
-There was no people shouting at each -other. It was still a great mood. | 0:07:36 | 0:07:40 | |
-And then suddenly, -people became trapped. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
-It was very clear that -in the build-up to three o'clock... | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
-..that people outside would die -if that crush wasn't alleviated. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:53 | |
-When I reached the front, -it was chaotic. | 0:07:56 | 0:07:59 | |
-"Get in, get in, get in." -No-one checked your ticket. | 0:07:59 | 0:08:02 | |
-No-one took my ticket -or ripped it in half. | 0:08:03 | 0:08:05 | |
-In I went. | 0:08:06 | 0:08:07 | |
-I remember saying -I don't think we'll start on time. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
-With so many people trying to get -in, I thought they'd delay kick-off. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:16 | |
-Teams were coming out as I sat down. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:18 | |
-I was glad I was in my seat. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:21 | |
-It was a relief to escape the crush. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
-Looking back I think I'd have been -better off out of there... | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
-..without seeing what I saw. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:31 | |
-. | 0:08:32 | 0:08:32 | |
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-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:08:37 | 0:08:39 | |
-In the minutes -before the 3.00pm kick-off... | 0:08:44 | 0:08:46 | |
-..thousands of Liverpool fans... | 0:08:47 | 0:08:49 | |
-..were waiting -outside the gates of Leppings Lane. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:53 | |
-The responsibility for the match -in 1989 is very clear. | 0:08:57 | 0:09:02 | |
-The Football Association -hired the stadium... | 0:09:02 | 0:09:04 | |
-..from Sheffield Wednesday -Football Club. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
-Sheffield Wednesday -had a responsibility... | 0:09:07 | 0:09:10 | |
-..for gaining a safety certificate -for the ground... | 0:09:10 | 0:09:13 | |
-..from the Sheffield City Council. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:16 | |
-That safety certificate -would provide the foundation... | 0:09:16 | 0:09:20 | |
-..for it to be hired out -to the Football Association. | 0:09:20 | 0:09:23 | |
-None of that worked on the day. | 0:09:24 | 0:09:25 | |
-The safety certificate was out of -date and all the authorities failed. | 0:09:25 | 0:09:30 | |
-I'd stood on Leppings Lane before. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:34 | |
-The greatest thrill... | 0:09:34 | 0:09:35 | |
-..was standing behind the goal and -seeing your team score towards you. | 0:09:36 | 0:09:42 | |
-Since it was a semi-final, -it was packed there. | 0:09:42 | 0:09:45 | |
-Fans were packed in tight, -very tight. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:48 | |
-It wasn't comfortable in '88 -but nothing happened. | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
-I never thought there was a danger -in what I was doing. | 0:09:54 | 0:09:58 | |
-It was like surfing in the crowd, -forward, to the side and back. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:04 | |
-I was never scared -but I sometimes held my breath... | 0:10:05 | 0:10:08 | |
-..and thought, -"What's going on here?" | 0:10:08 | 0:10:10 | |
-A few seconds later, -everything would die down... | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
-..and you found your place again -but that didn't happen that day. | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
-South Yorkshire Police -were responsible... | 0:10:18 | 0:10:21 | |
-..for policing Hillsborough. | 0:10:21 | 0:10:23 | |
-19 days before the game, -Chief Constable Peter Wright... | 0:10:23 | 0:10:27 | |
-..appointed Chief Inspector -David Duckenfield... | 0:10:28 | 0:10:31 | |
-..as supervisor of the semi-final. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
-Duckenfield had no experience of -controlling a game at Hillsborough. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:39 | |
-On the day, he briefed -his officers in the stadium. | 0:10:40 | 0:10:43 | |
-There was a lot of scepticism -from officers about his capability. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:48 | |
-Then remarkably, he goes missing. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
-He leaves the stadium, -nobody knows where he goes... | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
-..except his driver and -he's never revealed where they went. | 0:10:55 | 0:10:59 | |
-He doesn't return until 2.00pm. | 0:10:59 | 0:11:01 | |
-This is a major, major match. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:04 | |
-It's his first major match... | 0:11:04 | 0:11:06 | |
-..and he goes missing for two hours -in the lead-up to the game. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
-Then he's the position -of having to take decisions... | 0:11:10 | 0:11:14 | |
-..in a stadium -that he's unfamiliar with. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:17 | |
-Senior officers at the highest level -in South Yorkshire Police... | 0:11:18 | 0:11:22 | |
-..allowed an inexperienced police -officer in policing football... | 0:11:22 | 0:11:28 | |
-..to take that role on. | 0:11:28 | 0:11:30 | |
-When you come in -through the turnstiles... | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
-..the first thing -that you see is this tunnel. | 0:11:38 | 0:11:42 | |
-At the end of the tunnel, -you can see some of the pitch. | 0:11:42 | 0:11:46 | |
-That's like a magnet -that attracts the fans to it. | 0:11:47 | 0:11:50 | |
-I'd reached the end of the tunnel -and I thought, "It's too full here. | 0:11:51 | 0:11:56 | |
-"Let's move to the side." -And that's what we did. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:00 | |
-The control box is above -the Leppings Lane terrace. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
-It was clear -that those central pens were packed. | 0:12:05 | 0:12:08 | |
-They could see with their own eyes -that they were packed. | 0:12:08 | 0:12:11 | |
-Even more incredible, pens one -and two, which were below them... | 0:12:12 | 0:12:16 | |
-..they could see they were -completely underpopulated. | 0:12:17 | 0:12:21 | |
-They should have sealed -the tunnel... | 0:12:21 | 0:12:23 | |
-..and ensured the -underpopulated areas were filled. | 0:12:23 | 0:12:26 | |
-But they had this policy -in South Yorkshire Police... | 0:12:27 | 0:12:30 | |
-..which is -fans will find their own level. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:33 | |
-That's OK, -if you have an open terrace. | 0:12:33 | 0:12:36 | |
-Fans will find their own level. | 0:12:36 | 0:12:39 | |
-They go sideways or others -go sideways to make space for them. | 0:12:39 | 0:12:42 | |
-But they were going into -literal pens. | 0:12:43 | 0:12:45 | |
-Like cattle pens, you know. | 0:12:45 | 0:12:48 | |
-A massive fence at the front -with spikes coming in. | 0:12:48 | 0:12:52 | |
-Fences on either side. | 0:12:52 | 0:12:54 | |
-A brick wall behind you -and no way back up the tunnel. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
-The tunnel was full -as people were coming down. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:01 | |
-I was in the North Stand. | 0:13:02 | 0:13:04 | |
-When they'd got in, -after about 10 minutes... | 0:13:04 | 0:13:08 | |
-..looking at -the Leppings Lane end... | 0:13:08 | 0:13:10 | |
-..looking for Christopher wearing -a Welsh international rugby shirt... | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
-..and as time got towards 2.50pm... | 0:13:15 | 0:13:17 | |
-..I'm thinking, -"There's something wrong here." | 0:13:17 | 0:13:21 | |
-Those two pens, three and four, -were heaving. | 0:13:21 | 0:13:24 | |
-There was a marked difference -from where I was to the centre area. | 0:13:24 | 0:13:29 | |
-I thought to myself, "There are a -lot of gaps here. It's quite empty." | 0:13:29 | 0:13:34 | |
-Usually, 2.55pm before a game, -everywhere would be full. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:41 | |
-Everyone would be there in time. | 0:13:41 | 0:13:44 | |
-There were so many supporters -outside Leppings Lane... | 0:13:45 | 0:13:49 | |
-..it would have taken another -40 minutes to let them in safely. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:53 | |
-The man responsible -for policing this area... | 0:13:54 | 0:13:57 | |
-..was Chief Inspector -Roger Marshall. | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
-He's policed Hillsborough many times -but not that area. | 0:14:01 | 0:14:04 | |
-He phones through -to the control box. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:07 | |
-He asks Duckenfield -to open the gates. | 0:14:07 | 0:14:11 | |
-Duckenfield hesitates then orders -the opening of the gates. | 0:14:11 | 0:14:16 | |
-The gates are opened -but what Duckenfield doesn't do... | 0:14:16 | 0:14:20 | |
-..is say seal the tunnel. | 0:14:20 | 0:14:21 | |
-The tunnel remains open, -fans come in... | 0:14:22 | 0:14:24 | |
-..but once they went down -a one-in-six gradient tunnel... | 0:14:24 | 0:14:28 | |
-..they couldn't get back up. | 0:14:28 | 0:14:30 | |
-The crush became a compression -in the central pens. | 0:14:30 | 0:14:33 | |
-No way out sideways, forwards... | 0:14:33 | 0:14:35 | |
-..and people are crushed up -against the fence. | 0:14:36 | 0:14:39 | |
-The pile of bodies -at the front of pen three was high. | 0:14:39 | 0:14:43 | |
-In the five minutes -between 2.52 and 2.57... | 0:14:45 | 0:14:49 | |
-..2,000 fans entered -through Gate C... | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
-..most heading towards the tunnel to -the terrace which was already full. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:58 | |
-I remember an incredible atmosphere -in the game. | 0:15:02 | 0:15:06 | |
-I was excited, as a commentator, -and glad to be there. | 0:15:06 | 0:15:11 | |
-I remember Liverpool attacking -early in the game... | 0:15:11 | 0:15:15 | |
-..and Peter Beardsley shooting -and hitting the bar. | 0:15:15 | 0:15:20 | |
-Then you saw Liverpool supporters -climbing the radial fences... | 0:15:20 | 0:15:26 | |
-..and the perimeter fences. | 0:15:26 | 0:15:28 | |
-People were climbing up the wall -to get to the stand above. | 0:15:29 | 0:15:32 | |
-As time went on, you thought -something serious is happening here. | 0:15:32 | 0:15:38 | |
-It didn't dawn on a lot of people -what was actually going on. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:43 | |
-Even though you're on the bench, -you're concentrating on the game. | 0:15:45 | 0:15:49 | |
-You never know when you'll come on. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
-When people are on the pitch, -you realise something's wrong. | 0:15:51 | 0:15:55 | |
-I first thought there might be -some trouble going on. | 0:15:55 | 0:16:00 | |
-Hooliganism was a problem -in the '80s in English football. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
-That was my initial thought. | 0:16:04 | 0:16:06 | |
-At 3.06 the game was stopped. | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
-I became very, very cold, -I was frightened for Chris. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:15 | |
-It got worse. I don't think I've -ever experienced coldness like it. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:22 | |
-I still didn't think -that people had died. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
-You associate people dying -with blood and horrific scenes. | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
-Everything just stopped when -I saw one supporter carried away. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
-There was a jacket over his face. | 0:16:43 | 0:16:45 | |
-I was just absolutely besotted -and worried about Chris. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
-The lad who was sat next to me -had a transistor radio. | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
-I said, "What have they said?" | 0:16:57 | 0:16:59 | |
-He said, "There's five dead." | 0:17:00 | 0:17:02 | |
-I said, "You're joking. -Nobody dies at a football match." | 0:17:02 | 0:17:05 | |
-Soon news filtered through -to the press that fans had died. | 0:17:07 | 0:17:12 | |
-The producer in Cardiff -was talking to me on the phone. | 0:17:13 | 0:17:18 | |
-I said, "What do I do? -I'm hearing that people have died. | 0:17:18 | 0:17:23 | |
-"Am I allowed to say that?" | 0:17:23 | 0:17:25 | |
-I didn't have experience -of being in that situation. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:29 | |
-I was told that if the news -had come from an official source... | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
-..I could say that. | 0:17:34 | 0:17:35 | |
-I had to break the news knowing that -there were listeners in Wales... | 0:17:35 | 0:17:40 | |
-..or wherever they were listening... | 0:17:41 | 0:17:43 | |
-..that they had fans, relatives -and friends at the game. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:50 | |
-What did they think? -You had to be very sensitive. | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
-I don't think -we said very much at all. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
-Both of us couldn't believe -what we were seeing. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:03 | |
-We thought it was a pitch invasion -so we went into the dressing room. | 0:18:10 | 0:18:15 | |
-We heard shouting -and Kenny went out. | 0:18:16 | 0:18:18 | |
-"Kenny, people are dying out there." -We heard all of this. | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
-Upstairs, on the TV, we could see -what was going on. It was a shock. | 0:18:23 | 0:18:27 | |
-There were police officers -pounding the chests of young kids. | 0:18:29 | 0:18:34 | |
-That was to their credit. | 0:18:34 | 0:18:36 | |
-However, there must -have been another 200... | 0:18:37 | 0:18:40 | |
-..across the halfway line, -doing absolutely nothing. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:44 | |
-Every big event has -an operational order for policing. | 0:18:45 | 0:18:49 | |
-If you look at -the operational orders... | 0:18:49 | 0:18:51 | |
-..both for 1989 and 1988... | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
-..1989 was a replica of '88 -even down to the spelling mistakes. | 0:18:54 | 0:19:00 | |
-There's not a word on ground safety. -There's not a word on crowd safety. | 0:19:00 | 0:19:04 | |
-It's all about crowd control. | 0:19:04 | 0:19:06 | |
-I've been to enough matches to know -that the police standing there... | 0:19:07 | 0:19:11 | |
-..is to stop opposing fans meeting. | 0:19:12 | 0:19:14 | |
-Looking back, the minutes -and seconds that passed... | 0:19:14 | 0:19:17 | |
-..what they could have done -at Leppings Lane. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:20 | |
-It takes several minutes -before ambulances are mobilised... | 0:19:22 | 0:19:26 | |
-..ambulances arrive. | 0:19:26 | 0:19:28 | |
-There's no organisation because no -emergency plan had been activated. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:33 | |
-Every major event has an emergency -plan and an activation point. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:38 | |
-None of that occurred. | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
-People are picked up, carried -on hoardings, mainly by fans. | 0:19:40 | 0:19:44 | |
-It's complete chaos. | 0:19:45 | 0:19:46 | |
-It was a very surreal feeling... | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
-..but it was as if -I had my head underwater. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:52 | |
-I could hear things -but I couldn't make sense of it all. | 0:19:52 | 0:19:57 | |
-Everything was odd. | 0:19:57 | 0:19:59 | |
-Seeing these people -ripping up advertising boards... | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
-..carrying people, -trying to administer CPR. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
-I did nothing but stand and watch. | 0:20:07 | 0:20:09 | |
-There was nothing to assist -in the rescue. | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
-No defibrillators, -no oxygen was available... | 0:20:13 | 0:20:17 | |
-..it all came down to people like -you and I bending over bodies... | 0:20:17 | 0:20:23 | |
-..and trying to breathe air -into lifeless lungs. | 0:20:23 | 0:20:26 | |
-You only have minutes to resuscitate -somebody in that condition. | 0:20:26 | 0:20:31 | |
-I'd gone to a football match. | 0:20:34 | 0:20:36 | |
-I didn't expect to see things -like that in a football match. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:41 | |
-It was like a nightmare. | 0:20:41 | 0:20:43 | |
-It was hard to say if you were -seeing dead bodies in front of you. | 0:20:43 | 0:20:51 | |
-I could just see lifeless bodies. | 0:20:51 | 0:20:55 | |
-I wasn't sure -if they were dead or not. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:59 | |
-They probably were but at the time -you didn't want to think they were. | 0:20:59 | 0:21:04 | |
-You could see the supporters... | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
-..looking helplessly -at their friends in front of them. | 0:21:14 | 0:21:19 | |
-I wasn't sure what I was seeing. | 0:21:19 | 0:21:22 | |
-Graham Kelly, the secretary -of the Football Association... | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
-..comes into the control box and -asks Duckenfield what is going on. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:31 | |
-He says Liverpool fans -broke the door. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:35 | |
-They broke the exit gate C -and rushed into the stadium. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
-Not only did they not arrive late... | 0:21:40 | 0:21:44 | |
-..not only did they -not break down the door... | 0:21:44 | 0:21:48 | |
-..they never rushed. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:49 | |
-They walked. -It's there on his own CCTV. | 0:21:50 | 0:21:53 | |
-Back then, there was no way -of contacting someone. | 0:21:55 | 0:21:58 | |
-There were no mobile phones. | 0:21:59 | 0:22:01 | |
-There was no Facebook, -Twitter or Snapchat. | 0:22:01 | 0:22:04 | |
-I'd gone. "I'll see you tonight." -That was the message. | 0:22:04 | 0:22:08 | |
-When I phoned home and spoke to Mam, -I sensed the relief in her voice. | 0:22:08 | 0:22:13 | |
-She'd seen on TV -someone with a jersey like mine. | 0:22:13 | 0:22:16 | |
-When I was on the phone, -Dylan's mother was in Mam's house. | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
-She asked about Dylan and we said -he wasn't with us at that time. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:24 | |
-I was trying to say it in a way -that didn't cause panic. | 0:22:26 | 0:22:29 | |
-We'd seen Nain and Taid -the previous week. | 0:22:31 | 0:22:34 | |
-We'd planned to go out for a spin -in the car for an hour or two. | 0:22:35 | 0:22:39 | |
-We put the radio on and heard -that the game had been stopped... | 0:22:40 | 0:22:44 | |
-..because something -had happened on the pitch. | 0:22:44 | 0:22:47 | |
-I was thinking about Dylan. | 0:22:48 | 0:22:49 | |
-He'd said he'd try to swap -the tickets and that bothered me. | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
-I managed to find a phone in -a flower shop outside the stadium. | 0:22:54 | 0:23:00 | |
-I phoned home -to confirm I was alright. | 0:23:01 | 0:23:03 | |
-We have to be grateful -to the people of Sheffield. | 0:23:04 | 0:23:07 | |
-What they did that day, -they opened their doors. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:10 | |
-Houses, shops, everything, if you -wanted to phone home to allay fears. | 0:23:10 | 0:23:15 | |
-Not everyone was able -to make that call. | 0:23:16 | 0:23:18 | |
-The rendezvous point that we'd -arranged to meet on Halifax Road... | 0:23:19 | 0:23:23 | |
-..all I wanted was to see Chris. | 0:23:24 | 0:23:26 | |
-As I looked up, -there was Jason, Chris' mate. | 0:23:26 | 0:23:29 | |
-Steven and Paul. There was no Chris. | 0:23:29 | 0:23:33 | |
-Jason said to me, I said, -"Where's Chris?" | 0:23:38 | 0:23:40 | |
-He said, "Barry, you're gonna -have to expect the worst." | 0:23:40 | 0:23:44 | |
-I said, "What do you mean, the -worst?" He said, "Chris is dead." | 0:23:44 | 0:23:47 | |
-. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:49 | |
-Subtitles | 0:23:54 | 0:23:54 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:23:54 | 0:23:56 | |
-The journey home from Sheffield, -back over the Pennines... | 0:24:01 | 0:24:06 | |
-..was so difficult. | 0:24:06 | 0:24:07 | |
-One of British football's greatest -tragedies happened at 3.07pm. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:13 | |
-The police stories -were spreading by then. | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
-They claimed fans had broken down -a gate, rushed into the stadium... | 0:24:17 | 0:24:21 | |
-Unfortunately for some, -it was too late. | 0:24:21 | 0:24:24 | |
-Blankets and coats were placed -over the faces of many. | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
-The radio was on in the car. -We heard how many had died. | 0:24:28 | 0:24:32 | |
-It's 10, 15, 20, 30, 40... | 0:24:32 | 0:24:36 | |
-..it's 50. | 0:24:37 | 0:24:38 | |
-We had an old-fashioned radio -in the car. | 0:24:39 | 0:24:43 | |
-I wanted to switch it off. | 0:24:43 | 0:24:45 | |
-If we switched the radio off, -the number wouldn't rise anymore. | 0:24:45 | 0:24:50 | |
-In 1988, we returned home with -our scarves flying outside the car. | 0:24:51 | 0:24:55 | |
-Horns blaring, everyone in a -good mood - we were off to Wembley. | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
-This year, -the story was completely different. | 0:24:59 | 0:25:03 | |
-It felt like a black cloud -was following us all the way home. | 0:25:05 | 0:25:10 | |
-Alun, how are you? Are you OK? | 0:25:13 | 0:25:15 | |
-How are you keeping? Are you OK? | 0:25:15 | 0:25:17 | |
-Nice to see you. | 0:25:17 | 0:25:19 | |
-I remember walking down the tunnel -hearing the fans singing. | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
-I thought I'd get -a better view behind the goal. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
-I headed that way. | 0:25:28 | 0:25:30 | |
-You know, get it on, yeah. | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
-I was standing -in front of a barrier. | 0:25:34 | 0:25:36 | |
-This lad was standing next to me -and he had a young boy with him. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
-He said to me, -"There's something wrong here. | 0:25:40 | 0:25:43 | |
-"Help me push back -so I can pick the boy up." | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
-It was quite a job at that time. | 0:25:48 | 0:25:50 | |
-That was a good quarter of an hour -before it happened. | 0:25:50 | 0:25:56 | |
-I remember him telling the boy -to go over the top, to get away. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:03 | |
-He did go but he came back crying. | 0:26:03 | 0:26:07 | |
-I remember him crying. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
-People behind me were saying, -"Help him, do something." | 0:26:09 | 0:26:15 | |
-I couldn't raise a finger, -let alone anything else. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:19 | |
-I was stuck. -I was stuck, stuck by the barrier. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:25 | |
-I couldn't move an inch. | 0:26:25 | 0:26:27 | |
-Nothing. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:28 | |
-There's a lot of guilt, but... | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
-I still don't know -what happened to that little boy. | 0:26:36 | 0:26:40 | |
-The man next to me, -I remember when I was pulled out... | 0:26:41 | 0:26:44 | |
-..I could see blood pouring -from his nose and eyes. | 0:26:44 | 0:26:47 | |
-He'd been crushed. | 0:26:48 | 0:26:50 | |
-He didn't make it. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
-Did you think you'd die there? | 0:26:52 | 0:26:54 | |
-What I remember... | 0:26:55 | 0:26:56 | |
-..I was haemorrhaging, -blood was pouring out of my nose. | 0:26:56 | 0:27:00 | |
-Naturally, you'd wipe your face -but I couldn't raise a finger. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
-When I was halfway out, -the barrier behind me collapsed. | 0:27:10 | 0:27:16 | |
-That's when I felt my ribs, -like a pack of cards, just... | 0:27:16 | 0:27:22 | |
-It's something I'm trying to forget. -It's difficult. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:32 | |
-It is difficult. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:34 | |
-I was going -in and out of consciousness. | 0:27:39 | 0:27:45 | |
-I thought it was just a dream. | 0:27:45 | 0:27:47 | |
-I could hear screaming -and shouting. | 0:27:47 | 0:27:50 | |
-Lots of swearing. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:54 | |
-I remember lying -on one of the advertising boards. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:59 | |
-Waheels of Sheffield or something. -I remember that. | 0:27:59 | 0:28:03 | |
-I was face down. | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
-Looking down. -There were bodies to the side. | 0:28:07 | 0:28:11 | |
-There was one, -he was a bigger lad than me. | 0:28:17 | 0:28:21 | |
-He was lying -with his arms up like that. | 0:28:21 | 0:28:24 | |
-A coat over his face. | 0:28:24 | 0:28:26 | |
-Your brain is trying to forget -what happened. | 0:28:33 | 0:28:37 | |
-Trying to put it in a cupboard -and close the door. | 0:28:38 | 0:28:41 | |
-There are things, small things, -that bring it back to you. | 0:28:41 | 0:28:45 | |
-Wherever you put it, -wherever the cupboard... | 0:28:46 | 0:28:50 | |
-..it's always there. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:52 | |
-Yes, yes, it doesn't matter. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:54 | |
-It always comes back to you. | 0:28:54 | 0:28:56 | |
-It's there for you, it'll never go. -It'll never go. | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
-The shock, more than anything, -was how easy someone could die. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
-Too many people in one place... | 0:29:18 | 0:29:20 | |
-..squeezing the life -out of each other. | 0:29:20 | 0:29:22 | |
-I was lucky but because I was lucky, -someone else was less fortunate. | 0:29:23 | 0:29:28 | |
-They had the ticket -I'd had the previous year. | 0:29:28 | 0:29:31 | |
-It was the first day -I'd ventured out with my daughter. | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
-She'd only be a few weeks old. -I decided to go to Bolton, shopping. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:42 | |
-By the time I got home, -there was a bit of a panic going on. | 0:29:42 | 0:29:46 | |
-Our Andrew -was at the football match. | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
-He was a big lad, as a security -guard he could take care of himself. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:53 | |
-He often went to football matches. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:55 | |
-I can't say at that point -I was perturbed. | 0:29:56 | 0:29:58 | |
-It had been drummed into us -as children... | 0:29:59 | 0:30:01 | |
-..whether we were arriving -or leaving somewhere... | 0:30:01 | 0:30:05 | |
-..to give Mum three rings. | 0:30:05 | 0:30:06 | |
-No rings came -so it became more troubling. | 0:30:07 | 0:30:09 | |
-My mum and my dad and my husband -set off across the Pennines. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:14 | |
-We went to the first hospital. The -people were absolutely hysterical. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:24 | |
-I shouted out above everybody... | 0:30:25 | 0:30:27 | |
-.."Do you have a young man wearing -a Welsh international rugby shirt?" | 0:30:27 | 0:30:32 | |
-They said no. | 0:30:32 | 0:30:34 | |
-I said, "Do you have a Christopher -Devonside?" They said no. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:39 | |
-We went to another hospital -and it was the same scenario. | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
-Six hours after leaving the stadium -to search for his son... | 0:30:44 | 0:30:49 | |
-..Barry Devonside was called back -to the stadium's gym... | 0:30:49 | 0:30:53 | |
-..where the bodies of most -of the dead were being kept. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:57 | |
-We went inside and they brought -Chris in a body bag and opened it. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:03 | |
-I bent down to kiss his forehead. | 0:31:04 | 0:31:06 | |
-A police officer got hold of me -and pulled me back. | 0:31:06 | 0:31:09 | |
-I turned around and shoved him. | 0:31:09 | 0:31:11 | |
-How dare he invade my space -in a situation like this? | 0:31:12 | 0:31:16 | |
-My husband identified -three different people... | 0:31:16 | 0:31:20 | |
-..and finally it was the third one -that was Andrew. | 0:31:20 | 0:31:24 | |
-He told my mum -he thought it was Andrew. | 0:31:24 | 0:31:26 | |
-She wanted to identify Andrew... | 0:31:27 | 0:31:29 | |
-..but only made it so far down -the corridor and my mum collapsed. | 0:31:29 | 0:31:34 | |
-Two higher ranking police officers -were walking down the corridor... | 0:31:34 | 0:31:39 | |
-..having a conversation -and stepped over her... | 0:31:39 | 0:31:43 | |
-..and carried on walking. | 0:31:43 | 0:31:45 | |
-The vast, vast majority -of the families... | 0:31:47 | 0:31:50 | |
-..would be very hard pushed -to find any kindnesses that night. | 0:31:50 | 0:31:55 | |
-The Coroner, Dr Stefan Popper... | 0:31:58 | 0:32:01 | |
-..decided to test the blood -alcohol level of each body... | 0:32:01 | 0:32:05 | |
-..including a 10-year-old boy. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:08 | |
-The first question -they were asked was... | 0:32:09 | 0:32:11 | |
-..had their loved one been drinking? | 0:32:11 | 0:32:13 | |
-He said, "We're trying to build up -a picture of everybody's day. | 0:32:14 | 0:32:18 | |
-"Did you stop on the way -to have a meal and a drink?" | 0:32:19 | 0:32:22 | |
-I said, "What's that got to do -with identification?" | 0:32:22 | 0:32:25 | |
-He asked me five questions -and every answer I gave was... | 0:32:26 | 0:32:29 | |
-.."What's that got to do -with identification?" | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
-To be interrogated as if -in some way your loved one or you... | 0:32:32 | 0:32:37 | |
-..had some sort of bad reputation -was just dreadful. | 0:32:37 | 0:32:41 | |
-The disaster is people dying. | 0:32:41 | 0:32:44 | |
-The tragedy was the way the bereaved -families and survivors were treated. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:49 | |
-I was petrified -of what Jackie was going to say. | 0:32:50 | 0:32:53 | |
-Many years ago, she said, -when I first started taking Chris... | 0:32:53 | 0:32:58 | |
-.."If you bring Chris home hurt, -me and you will have a problem." | 0:32:58 | 0:33:02 | |
-And I wasn't bringing Chris home. | 0:33:02 | 0:33:05 | |
-And... | 0:33:05 | 0:33:06 | |
-She opened the door, -she was waiting for me. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:11 | |
-We just threw our arms -around each other. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
-She never said a word -about what she'd said years ago. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:18 | |
-Cheek to cheek and she said to me... | 0:33:18 | 0:33:20 | |
-.."There's 17 dead so far, Barry." | 0:33:20 | 0:33:23 | |
-I said, -"Jack, there's 81 dead so far." | 0:33:23 | 0:33:26 | |
-We went in -and all the relatives were there. | 0:33:27 | 0:33:29 | |
-I didn't want to speak to anybody. | 0:33:29 | 0:33:31 | |
-I just wanted Chris back home. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
-The next morning, Margaret Thatcher -arrived with Douglas Hurd. | 0:33:39 | 0:33:45 | |
-When I challenged Bernard Ingham, -the Press Secretary... | 0:33:45 | 0:33:49 | |
-..with regard to what -had happened in that meeting... | 0:33:49 | 0:33:52 | |
-..he said, "I know what I learned -there on the day. | 0:33:53 | 0:33:56 | |
-"That Liverpool fans -broke into the stadium." | 0:33:57 | 0:34:00 | |
-In other words, Liverpool fans -killed Liverpool people. | 0:34:00 | 0:34:04 | |
-Now who did he learn that from? | 0:34:05 | 0:34:07 | |
-There were no fans -or doctors talking to him. | 0:34:07 | 0:34:10 | |
-It was senior police officers... | 0:34:11 | 0:34:13 | |
-..and most significantly, -the Chief Constable Peter Wright. | 0:34:13 | 0:34:17 | |
-Anfield became the focal point -for grief. | 0:34:19 | 0:34:22 | |
-Kenny Dalglish took his -Liverpool squad to the hospitals... | 0:34:22 | 0:34:26 | |
-..to visit those hurt -in Leppings Lane... | 0:34:26 | 0:34:28 | |
-..and also to the funerals. | 0:34:29 | 0:34:31 | |
-While Liverpool and their families -buried their supporters... | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
-..a story was emerging -from Sheffield. | 0:34:35 | 0:34:38 | |
-I'm sick of seeing on television -these instant experts... | 0:34:38 | 0:34:42 | |
-..telling us that if there'd been -police inside those gates... | 0:34:42 | 0:34:46 | |
-..funnelling people -into the outer areas... | 0:34:46 | 0:34:48 | |
-..this wouldn't have happened. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:50 | |
-I'm saying to you -that if police had been in there... | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
-..when this mob surged through... | 0:34:55 | 0:34:57 | |
-..the officers -would've been trampled to death. | 0:34:57 | 0:34:59 | |
-Certain members of the police, -plus the local MP, Irvine Patnick... | 0:35:00 | 0:35:05 | |
-..plus the head -of the Police Federation... | 0:35:05 | 0:35:08 | |
-..had approached journalists -and given them a story... | 0:35:08 | 0:35:13 | |
-..that Liverpool fans -had stolen from the dead... | 0:35:13 | 0:35:16 | |
-..that Liverpool fans had broken in -and violence had cause the disaster. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:21 | |
-Kelvin MacKenzie wanted -that headline to be You Scum. | 0:35:22 | 0:35:25 | |
-I've supported Liverpool -for 30 years. | 0:35:28 | 0:35:31 | |
-I'm not claiming -that Liverpool fans are angels... | 0:35:31 | 0:35:35 | |
-..but they would never do -such a thing. | 0:35:35 | 0:35:37 | |
-What was said about them -was shameful. | 0:35:37 | 0:35:39 | |
-Can you imagine a human being doing -things a newspaper said about them? | 0:35:40 | 0:35:45 | |
-That was more shocking than the -lies - that people believed them. | 0:35:45 | 0:35:50 | |
-In the days that followed... | 0:35:53 | 0:35:55 | |
-..Arwel and I spoke -and we decided to raise money. | 0:35:56 | 0:35:59 | |
-I visited the offices -of a local newspaper in Pwllheli. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:04 | |
-A woman stood behind me -in the queue. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
-She said, -"Aren't those hooligans a disgrace?" | 0:36:07 | 0:36:10 | |
-I asked her why -she was saying something like that. | 0:36:11 | 0:36:14 | |
-"I didn't mean you, Dylan," -she replied. | 0:36:15 | 0:36:18 | |
-She meant someone else. | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
-That's the message -that reached Pwllheli... | 0:36:20 | 0:36:23 | |
-..a few days after the tragedy. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:25 | |
-The Sun was so confident -in their story. | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
-It changed the entire view -of Hillsborough... | 0:36:29 | 0:36:31 | |
-..in the national consciousness. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:34 | |
-We went from people feeling empathy -towards those who died... | 0:36:34 | 0:36:39 | |
-..to feeling absolute abhorrence to -Liverpool fans and Liverpool people. | 0:36:39 | 0:36:45 | |
-West Midlands Police were appointed -to conduct an external inquiry... | 0:36:46 | 0:36:51 | |
-..with Lord Justice Taylor -leading the official investigation. | 0:36:51 | 0:36:55 | |
-Taylor found that police failure -was mostly to blame for the tragedy. | 0:36:57 | 0:37:02 | |
-He criticised them -for blaming the supporters. | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
-The inquest into the deaths -opened in November 1990. | 0:37:08 | 0:37:12 | |
-Coroner Dr Stefan Popper found -that all those who died... | 0:37:13 | 0:37:18 | |
-..suffered their mortal injuries -before 3.15pm. | 0:37:18 | 0:37:22 | |
-It was a contentious decision -which meant that... | 0:37:22 | 0:37:25 | |
-..the emergency services' response -after that time was not scrutinised. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:29 | |
-During the inquest... | 0:37:30 | 0:37:31 | |
-..the police continued -to criticise the Liverpool fans. | 0:37:32 | 0:37:36 | |
-We see allegations -around drunkenness... | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
-..allegations around ticketless, -violence and late arrival. | 0:37:42 | 0:37:46 | |
-They were the four pillars -of the police case. | 0:37:46 | 0:37:49 | |
-That was played out -in what was then... | 0:37:50 | 0:37:53 | |
-..the longest inquest -in legal history. | 0:37:53 | 0:37:56 | |
-Ignoring the findings -of Lord Justice Taylor... | 0:37:57 | 0:38:00 | |
-..the inquest's verdict in -March 1991 was 'accidental death'. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
-When that came back -as accidental death... | 0:38:06 | 0:38:09 | |
-..that was just stunning, really. | 0:38:09 | 0:38:12 | |
-That was probably the point -at which it became really obvious... | 0:38:12 | 0:38:16 | |
-..that this was a real fight. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:19 | |
-In 1991, David Duckenfield -faced a disciplinary case. | 0:38:19 | 0:38:23 | |
-When he retired early on a full -pension, the case wasn't pursued. | 0:38:23 | 0:38:28 | |
-Five years later, -Professor Phil Scraton discovered... | 0:38:28 | 0:38:32 | |
-..that the evidence -of many officers at Hillsborough... | 0:38:32 | 0:38:36 | |
-..had been doctored and altered... | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
-..to omit any criticism -of the police on the day. | 0:38:40 | 0:38:43 | |
-What I realised at that point... | 0:38:47 | 0:38:48 | |
-..was that Lord Justice Taylor knew, -the Home Office knew... | 0:38:49 | 0:38:53 | |
-..all the investigating bodies -knew... | 0:38:53 | 0:38:56 | |
-..the investigating force knew, -they all knew. | 0:38:56 | 0:38:59 | |
-It's not one-off, it's systemic. -It's institutionalised. | 0:39:00 | 0:39:04 | |
-That was the discovery. | 0:39:04 | 0:39:06 | |
-I knew that as soon as I saw it. | 0:39:07 | 0:39:09 | |
-In 1997, Lord Justice Stuart-Smith -was appointed... | 0:39:12 | 0:39:16 | |
-..to scrutinise the evidence -for the new Labour government. | 0:39:16 | 0:39:20 | |
-Despite the findings -of Professor Phil Scraton... | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
-..he rejected an appeal -to quash the inquest's findings. | 0:39:24 | 0:39:27 | |
-It was noted that no basis existed -to open a new case. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:30 | |
-The next step was a private -prosecution for manslaughter... | 0:39:31 | 0:39:35 | |
-..against Duckenfield -and Bernard Murray in 2000. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
-The jury failed to reach a decision -against Duckenfield... | 0:39:41 | 0:39:45 | |
-..who refused to give evidence. | 0:39:45 | 0:39:47 | |
-Murray was found not guilty. | 0:39:47 | 0:39:49 | |
-The South Yorkshire Police -Authority paid their court costs. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:54 | |
-There are two elements - -what happened on the day... | 0:39:56 | 0:39:59 | |
-..and the 25 years and more -of pain... | 0:40:00 | 0:40:05 | |
-..lies and vilification and that's -been a burden for Liverpool fans. | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
-"You did it. | 0:40:10 | 0:40:12 | |
-"You broke in, you didn't have -tickets, you were drunk and so on." | 0:40:14 | 0:40:19 | |
-Had people been drinking? -Yes, of course. | 0:40:19 | 0:40:22 | |
-It happens in every game -and at every occasion. | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
-But... that doesn't mean... | 0:40:25 | 0:40:29 | |
-..they killed their own supporters. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
-I couldn't believe... | 0:40:34 | 0:40:36 | |
-..that here we were in 2000 -with all this evidence... | 0:40:36 | 0:40:40 | |
-..and we were now entering a decade -where nothing happened. | 0:40:40 | 0:40:45 | |
-This is when you start to see -other family members dying. | 0:40:46 | 0:40:51 | |
-You see survivors taking their own -lives, survivors not being believed. | 0:40:51 | 0:40:56 | |
-It was total despondency. | 0:40:56 | 0:40:58 | |
-I can't tell you what the real -number is of people who died... | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
-..as a direct consequence of -what they endured at Hillsborough... | 0:41:02 | 0:41:07 | |
-..or after Hillsborough. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:09 | |
-. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:09 | |
-Subtitles | 0:41:15 | 0:41:15 | |
-Subtitles - -Subtitles | 0:41:15 | 0:41:17 | |
-The guilt I feel, -it's not there every day... | 0:41:22 | 0:41:26 | |
-..but it's there -in the subconsciousness. | 0:41:26 | 0:41:30 | |
-I'm guilty of being lucky. | 0:41:30 | 0:41:32 | |
-I'm guilty of having a ticket -in a different place. | 0:41:33 | 0:41:37 | |
-I'm guilty that I stood there -and did nothing to help anyone. | 0:41:37 | 0:41:45 | |
-I just stood, silently, -like a statue. | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
-I feel guilty sometimes -that I'm sharing my feelings. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:57 | |
-I haven't grieved, I didn't -lose anyone, I wasn't injured. | 0:41:57 | 0:42:02 | |
-I feel guilty because it feels -as if I'm craving attention... | 0:42:02 | 0:42:05 | |
-..but that's not true. | 0:42:06 | 0:42:07 | |
-I feel guilty that I'm still saying -that we need to fight for justice... | 0:42:08 | 0:42:14 | |
-..when it didn't affect my life. | 0:42:14 | 0:42:17 | |
-I was there, I'm a Liverpool fan. | 0:42:17 | 0:42:20 | |
-A lot more people have suffered -a lot more than I have. | 0:42:20 | 0:42:25 | |
-I feel guilty. -I feel guilty for feeling guilty. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:29 | |
-It can tear you apart. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:31 | |
-Liverpool is close to our hearts -in North Wales. | 0:42:38 | 0:42:43 | |
-Close to our spirit. | 0:42:43 | 0:42:45 | |
-It's a no-nonsense city. If there's -something to say, it will be said. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:51 | |
-Thank goodness for that. | 0:42:51 | 0:42:54 | |
-A lot of people would have given up. | 0:42:54 | 0:42:57 | |
-Never pick on the people of -Liverpool because they'll come back. | 0:42:58 | 0:43:03 | |
-It's an amazing city. -They did pick on the wrong people. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
-They're unbelievable. | 0:43:08 | 0:43:09 | |
-Annual Hillsborough Memorial Service -April 15, 2009 | 0:43:10 | 0:43:13 | |
-20 years after the tragedy, -a politician was invited... | 0:43:14 | 0:43:17 | |
-..for the first time to speak at the -annual memorial service in Anfield. | 0:43:18 | 0:43:23 | |
-We can pledge that 96 fellow -football supporters who died... | 0:43:23 | 0:43:28 | |
-..will never be forgotten. | 0:43:28 | 0:43:30 | |
-Justice. | 0:43:30 | 0:43:31 | |
-And he asks us to think -at this time... | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
-Andy Burnham, the Culture Secretary, -received a simple message. | 0:43:35 | 0:43:39 | |
-# Justice for the 96 | 0:43:39 | 0:43:42 | |
-# Justice for the 96 | 0:43:42 | 0:43:45 | |
-# Justice for the 96 | 0:43:45 | 0:43:48 | |
-# Justice for the 96 | 0:43:48 | 0:43:51 | |
-# Justice for the 96 # | 0:43:51 | 0:43:53 | |
-He promised to release every -document to try and find the truth. | 0:43:53 | 0:43:58 | |
-The independent Hillsborough panel -was set up... | 0:44:03 | 0:44:06 | |
-..to examine almost -half a million documents... | 0:44:06 | 0:44:10 | |
-..led by the Archbishop of Liverpool -and Professor Phil Scraton. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:15 | |
-Their findings were published -on September 12, 2012. | 0:44:15 | 0:44:19 | |
-It was a beautiful -September morning. | 0:44:23 | 0:44:25 | |
-I stood on the steps -of the Anglican cathedral. | 0:44:26 | 0:44:29 | |
-I looked across my city -and the river. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
-I knew this was a defining -moment in their lives and my life. | 0:44:32 | 0:44:36 | |
-I guess, at that moment, -I knew history had been made. | 0:44:36 | 0:44:40 | |
-What I didn't anticipate -was all that came after. | 0:44:41 | 0:44:44 | |
-The panel concluded -that the authorities were to blame. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:50 | |
-There was no foundation to -allegations against the supporters. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
-A better response -by the emergency services... | 0:44:54 | 0:44:58 | |
-..could have saved 40 lives. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:00 | |
-The results of the first inquest, -of accidental death, was quashed. | 0:45:02 | 0:45:06 | |
-A new inquest was opened -in Warrington and lasted two years. | 0:45:06 | 0:45:10 | |
-The jury's decision -on April 26, 2016... | 0:45:10 | 0:45:15 | |
-..was that failures by the police -and authorities led to the tragedy. | 0:45:15 | 0:45:19 | |
-The behaviour of the supporters -was not a contributing factor. | 0:45:20 | 0:45:24 | |
-The 96 had been unlawfully killed. | 0:45:24 | 0:45:27 | |
-# You'll never walk alone # | 0:45:27 | 0:45:31 | |
-When the verdicts came through, -it was as if emotionally... | 0:45:32 | 0:45:36 | |
-..I went scrunch... | 0:45:36 | 0:45:38 | |
-..gone. | 0:45:39 | 0:45:41 | |
-And from that minute on, it went. | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
-All the... all the angst, all the -pressure, all the feeling of duty... | 0:45:44 | 0:45:49 | |
-..the feeling of burden -that came with being... | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
-..the last standing member -to represent Andrew in that way... | 0:45:53 | 0:45:57 | |
-..all just went. | 0:45:58 | 0:45:59 | |
-When justice was finally done, -that was a good feeling. | 0:46:00 | 0:46:05 | |
-You just wanted to say, -"Well, we told you so." | 0:46:05 | 0:46:09 | |
-I was walking through Liverpool -and a guy threw his arms around me. | 0:46:10 | 0:46:15 | |
-I didn't know him and he said, -"For the first time in 27 years... | 0:46:15 | 0:46:19 | |
-"..I walk through this city -with my head held high." | 0:46:19 | 0:46:22 | |
-And that was a person -who'd survived Hillsborough. | 0:46:23 | 0:46:27 | |
-Hello. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:31 | |
-Hello. - -Cuppa? I've made one already. | 0:46:31 | 0:46:33 | |
-27 years have passed... | 0:46:34 | 0:46:36 | |
-..but I've never spoken openly -about my feelings with Mam and Dad. | 0:46:36 | 0:46:42 | |
-I don't want to bother them. | 0:46:42 | 0:46:44 | |
-It might be easier -to shut things out. | 0:46:44 | 0:46:47 | |
-Every time he talks about it, -he starts to well up. | 0:46:50 | 0:46:54 | |
-I think it's really affected him. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:57 | |
-He still feels that way, -that feeling of guilt. | 0:46:57 | 0:47:01 | |
-He came away unscathed -and others didn't. | 0:47:01 | 0:47:04 | |
-He still relives that moment. | 0:47:04 | 0:47:07 | |
-The campaign of the families -for justice continues. | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
-The decision to prosecute -individuals or institutions... | 0:47:15 | 0:47:19 | |
-..is in the hands -of the Crown Prosecution Service. | 0:47:20 | 0:47:23 | |
-Almost 28 years since the tragedy... | 0:47:23 | 0:47:26 | |
-..time will tell -if people will wake up... | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
-..from the long nightmare -of Hillsborough. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:33 | |
-It's something that will leave -a mark on me forever... | 0:47:33 | 0:47:37 | |
-..but it didn't stop me -going to support Liverpool. | 0:47:37 | 0:47:41 | |
-Deep down, you'll have them scars -for the rest of your life. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:48 | |
-It's something that you've seen -and something that will be there. | 0:47:49 | 0:47:53 | |
-It's 27, 28 years. It's a hell -of a long time not to give up. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
-They won't. Even though they've won -the case, there's more to come. | 0:47:57 | 0:48:01 | |
-It still won't bring back -their loved ones. | 0:48:01 | 0:48:04 | |
-I think there's an idea somehow... | 0:48:04 | 0:48:07 | |
-..that being forever young... | 0:48:07 | 0:48:10 | |
-..is something to be desired. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
-Actually, there's nothing to be -desired of being forever young. | 0:48:14 | 0:48:18 | |
-You don't experience life. | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
-I miss... | 0:48:22 | 0:48:24 | |
-I miss what he didn't become. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
-I miss him every single day. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:33 | |
-I think about him -morning, noon and night. | 0:48:33 | 0:48:36 | |
-There's no way their lives -should have been snuffed out... | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
-..in the way that it did. | 0:48:40 | 0:48:42 | |
-Chris was everything -to Jackie and I. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:46 | |
-We will never, as a family, -get over losing Chris. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
-I think things are easier since -the inquest jury cleared us... | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
-..of the allegation that -we killed 96 of our own supporters. | 0:49:10 | 0:49:14 | |
-Families have proven that it's -possible for the small person... | 0:49:14 | 0:49:18 | |
-..to overcome the big institutions -by standing their ground. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:22 | |
-There might be a lesson -for us all there. | 0:49:22 | 0:49:25 | |
-We were right. | 0:49:25 | 0:49:27 | |
-We told the truth -right from the start. | 0:49:27 | 0:49:31 | |
-S4C Subtitles by Adnod Cyf. | 0:50:01 | 0:50:03 | |
-. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:04 |