Browse content similar to Episode 1. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
From James Bond to Spooks, the fictional world of espionage | 0:00:03 | 0:00:06 | |
is a world of danger and deception, glamour and lies. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
But what is spying really like? | 0:00:09 | 0:00:12 | |
For the first time on television, serving members of Britain's | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
intelligence services talk about life as a modern spy. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:20 | |
The risks are very, very real here. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:22 | |
When we're deploying under a different identity, | 0:00:22 | 0:00:24 | |
it is quite nerve wracking. | 0:00:24 | 0:00:26 | |
In this series, we probe the secrets of spycraft. | 0:00:27 | 0:00:30 | |
The sleeper cell. | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
-The honey trap. -It plays to an ego of an older guy. | 0:00:32 | 0:00:35 | |
She's probably not in your league when she sits next to you in a bar | 0:00:35 | 0:00:38 | |
and then the pillow talk causes a leak of significant information. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:43 | |
The Brush Pass. And working undercover. | 0:00:43 | 0:00:47 | |
You have to be a sort of a, what I like to call Mr Grey. | 0:00:47 | 0:00:51 | |
A person you might pass on the street, | 0:00:51 | 0:00:52 | |
but you'd forget him in a second. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
And increasingly today, the Cut Out and the Cyber Spy. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:59 | |
We're up against the cream of the crop. | 0:00:59 | 0:01:01 | |
It's a chess game with deadly consequences. | 0:01:01 | 0:01:03 | |
JAMES BOND THEME PLAYS | 0:01:12 | 0:01:14 | |
Espionage has always been a secret and shadowy world. | 0:01:17 | 0:01:23 | |
For decades, the British government didn't even acknowledge | 0:01:23 | 0:01:26 | |
its spy agencies existed. | 0:01:26 | 0:01:29 | |
Instead, our image of spying is conditioned by movies and thrillers. | 0:01:30 | 0:01:35 | |
It's presented as a world of uncontrolled macho | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
secret agents with license to kill. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:43 | |
You've still got your gloves on. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
Powerful and sinister organisations - | 0:01:49 | 0:01:53 | |
a law unto themselves. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:54 | |
HE GASPS | 0:01:58 | 0:02:00 | |
But now, for the first time, | 0:02:06 | 0:02:08 | |
serving British spies have been allowed to talk about their work. | 0:02:08 | 0:02:12 | |
For security reasons, they can't discuss specific operations | 0:02:12 | 0:02:15 | |
and, of course, their identities are disguised. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:19 | |
So what's it like being a modern spy? | 0:02:19 | 0:02:22 | |
Michael works for MI6 - the Secret Intelligence Service or SIS. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:29 | |
Only my very close family know that I work for SIS. With everyone else, | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
I have to adopt a cover of working for another | 0:02:35 | 0:02:38 | |
government department and to make that sound as dull as possible. | 0:02:38 | 0:02:42 | |
Emma works for the Security Service, MI5. | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
She investigates suspected Al-Qaeda networks. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:49 | |
It's difficult constantly maintaining cover with | 0:02:49 | 0:02:53 | |
your close friends and your close family. You are living a lie | 0:02:53 | 0:02:57 | |
and that is hard and it's difficult not to be able to share | 0:02:57 | 0:03:00 | |
the successes of the work you've done with people outside work. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:03 | |
Shami is an MI5 surveillance officer. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:09 | |
You're constantly trying to avoid talking about work. | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
I'm having to constantly to think about what I'm going to say | 0:03:13 | 0:03:16 | |
and what I'm going to talk about, so it's quite difficult sometimes. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:20 | |
-Now they... -And now they've looked you up again. -Yes. | 0:03:29 | 0:03:33 | |
You great nit! | 0:03:34 | 0:03:36 | |
This was the image of spying projected by a British | 0:03:36 | 0:03:40 | |
government propaganda film 50 years ago. | 0:03:40 | 0:03:42 | |
He's a highly sophisticated operator. | 0:03:42 | 0:03:45 | |
Nikolai Alexandrevitz Popov. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:49 | |
One or two of you know him already. | 0:03:49 | 0:03:51 | |
The rest of you, take a good look at these. | 0:03:51 | 0:03:53 | |
He's to have the full treatment. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:59 | |
If you run into any difficulties, break off. | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
If anything happens to alert Popov, | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
I'll personally brain the lot of you. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:06 | |
During the Cold War with Russia, Britain's spies were | 0:04:10 | 0:04:14 | |
recruited from the upper classes - part of an old boy network | 0:04:14 | 0:04:17 | |
centred around Oxbridge colleges. | 0:04:17 | 0:04:19 | |
But that was yesterday. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:23 | |
I guess there's this perception that | 0:04:23 | 0:04:25 | |
people have a kind of a tap on the shoulder and, you know, | 0:04:25 | 0:04:29 | |
-it's their tutors at University. -But it's no longer like that. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:32 | |
No longer like that at all. We have a very open website now, | 0:04:32 | 0:04:36 | |
you can apply through that website. | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
'SIS works secretly overseas to make the UK safer and more prosperous. | 0:04:38 | 0:04:44 | |
'We obtain secret foreign intelligence | 0:04:44 | 0:04:46 | |
'to inform government decisions...' | 0:04:46 | 0:04:48 | |
The world is now very different | 0:04:48 | 0:04:50 | |
and Britain's intelligence agencies have had to adapt. | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
They now use the press and the internet to advertise for recruits. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:58 | |
Have you thought about working for MI5? | 0:04:59 | 0:05:02 | |
Open talent spotting like this would have been unthinkable | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
only a few years ago. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:06 | |
We're always looking to recruit people with a diverse | 0:05:06 | 0:05:09 | |
range of skills and backgrounds. | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
This new world of spying was born on September 11th, 2001. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:16 | |
9/11 revealed a new enemy - often home grown, | 0:05:16 | 0:05:20 | |
Muslim and mainly working class. | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
And that meant there was a need for a new kind of spy - | 0:05:23 | 0:05:26 | |
someone like Shami, who'd never been to University. | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
My impression of MI5 is you had to be an Oxbridge graduate | 0:05:30 | 0:05:33 | |
or something. I just felt that I'd nothing to offer. | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
But MI5 recruiters thought differently. | 0:05:37 | 0:05:40 | |
They both stood up and put their hands out and said, | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
"Congratulations! Welcome to the Service!" Yeah, and shook my hand. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:46 | |
I couldn't believe it at first. I was sort of taking it in. | 0:05:46 | 0:05:48 | |
I was almost going to ask them, "Are you sure?" | 0:05:48 | 0:05:51 | |
What do you want? | 0:05:51 | 0:05:53 | |
Drazen. Drazen? | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
He knows he can't get the money. Senator! | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
No! | 0:05:59 | 0:06:01 | |
9/11 produced a new television image of espionage - | 0:06:01 | 0:06:05 | |
with nightmare scenarios. | 0:06:05 | 0:06:08 | |
In America, "24", and in Britain, "Spooks". | 0:06:08 | 0:06:12 | |
So names, sources, runners - everything you've got. | 0:06:12 | 0:06:16 | |
A world where any amount of violence | 0:06:16 | 0:06:18 | |
and torture are justifiable in defence of your country. | 0:06:18 | 0:06:22 | |
-Oh, dear. Oh, dear. -Let her go! I'll give you what you want! | 0:06:22 | 0:06:25 | |
SHE SCREAMS | 0:06:25 | 0:06:27 | |
What was your mother's reaction | 0:06:27 | 0:06:28 | |
when you told her you were going to work for MI5? | 0:06:28 | 0:06:31 | |
My mother was rather horrified. She'd watched Spooks | 0:06:31 | 0:06:34 | |
and her initial reaction was, | 0:06:34 | 0:06:36 | |
"Oh, my goodness, you're going to end up | 0:06:36 | 0:06:38 | |
"with your head in a fat fryer!" | 0:06:38 | 0:06:39 | |
And have you? | 0:06:39 | 0:06:41 | |
No, I haven't. MI5, working as an intelligence officer is really | 0:06:41 | 0:06:47 | |
quite different from life in Spooks. My job is largely desk-based. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:52 | |
So unfortunately, I'm not running around the streets of London | 0:06:52 | 0:06:56 | |
chasing terrorists, being nearly blown up every other week. | 0:06:56 | 0:07:01 | |
In the real world, Britain's intelligence services operate | 0:07:01 | 0:07:05 | |
under strict political control. | 0:07:05 | 0:07:07 | |
The Foreign Secretary is ultimately in charge of MI6 | 0:07:09 | 0:07:13 | |
and the Government's eavesdropping centre - GCHQ. | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
The Home Secretary is responsible for MI5. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:21 | |
Together, the agencies employ more than 10,000 people, | 0:07:21 | 0:07:24 | |
with an annual budget of more than £2 billion. | 0:07:24 | 0:07:29 | |
We are a unique government department, because every day, | 0:07:29 | 0:07:33 | |
we are making decisions which affect the safety and security | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
of people who are putting their lives on the line for us. | 0:07:37 | 0:07:42 | |
Our working hours can change instantly. | 0:07:42 | 0:07:45 | |
The mission is a constant but every day is different. What I do | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
is important - yet no one will ever know. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
In America, the CIA makes glossy, Hollywood-style commercials | 0:07:52 | 0:07:55 | |
to attract new recruits. | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
But new secret agents might be slightly disappointed. | 0:07:58 | 0:08:01 | |
...CIA's National Clandestine Service. | 0:08:01 | 0:08:03 | |
They think it's more like the movies, Mission Impossible, | 0:08:04 | 0:08:07 | |
that they're going to be jumping out of cars | 0:08:07 | 0:08:10 | |
and that everyone carries a weapon. | 0:08:10 | 0:08:13 | |
My workplace could be anywhere. | 0:08:13 | 0:08:17 | |
I must always be ready. | 0:08:17 | 0:08:19 | |
-Yet I can't tell my friends what I do. -We have to kind of give them | 0:08:19 | 0:08:24 | |
that reality. Yes, we're collecting human intelligence, | 0:08:24 | 0:08:27 | |
but we don't all drive fast cars, you know? | 0:08:27 | 0:08:29 | |
You're going to be writing reports, you're in meetings, so it's not | 0:08:29 | 0:08:34 | |
always that glamorous image of, you know, what you see in the movies. | 0:08:34 | 0:08:38 | |
If James Bond actually worked in MI6 today, | 0:08:38 | 0:08:42 | |
he'd spend a large amount of time behind a desk doing paperwork. | 0:08:42 | 0:08:46 | |
and making sure everything was properly cleared and authorised. | 0:08:46 | 0:08:49 | |
And he certainly wouldn't be the lone wolf of the films. | 0:08:49 | 0:08:52 | |
The Big Screen has made us all familiar with the language of | 0:08:52 | 0:08:56 | |
spying - from "Spooks" and "Moles" to "Codenames" and "Sources". | 0:08:56 | 0:09:01 | |
-Smiley is suspicious, Percy. -Where did it come from? What's the access? | 0:09:01 | 0:09:08 | |
-A new secret source of mine. -But how could he possibly have access? | 0:09:08 | 0:09:11 | |
He has access to the most sensitive levels of policy-making. | 0:09:11 | 0:09:15 | |
We've named the operation, "Witchcraft". | 0:09:17 | 0:09:20 | |
So how does the modern spycraft of today compare to the fiction? | 0:09:20 | 0:09:25 | |
At the core of intelligence gathering is that priceless asset, | 0:09:25 | 0:09:28 | |
the source. | 0:09:28 | 0:09:30 | |
America's domestic intelligence service, the Federal Bureau | 0:09:43 | 0:09:46 | |
of Investigation, has a century of history in running human sources. | 0:09:46 | 0:09:51 | |
The more I'm in this business, the more I believe that sources | 0:09:52 | 0:09:55 | |
and wires are absolutely essential to address espionage, | 0:09:55 | 0:09:58 | |
address terrorism and the like. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
It's adapting that long history of using sources | 0:10:00 | 0:10:03 | |
and wires to the threats of today that has been the challenge. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
If you love America, and if you are interested, | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
I can present a unique opportunity for you. | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
At its Academy in Quantico, Virginia, the FBI use | 0:10:13 | 0:10:17 | |
role playing to train special agents in turning and recruiting sources. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:22 | |
Do you want me to...get information? | 0:10:22 | 0:10:25 | |
I want you to hang out with the same people you've hung out with | 0:10:25 | 0:10:29 | |
in the past, do the same things you've always done, | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
but just under direction from us. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
If I do what you're asking, | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
-what about these charges? -I can't promise you anything, | 0:10:37 | 0:10:42 | |
but I want to help you out in every way I can, | 0:10:42 | 0:10:45 | |
but I want you to help me in every way YOU can. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:48 | |
It's a give and take relationship. | 0:10:48 | 0:10:50 | |
You cannot replace a human source. | 0:10:50 | 0:10:52 | |
You might be able to listen to a portion of a phone call or | 0:10:52 | 0:10:55 | |
see a portion of an email, but being able to put a human being inside | 0:10:55 | 0:11:00 | |
a cell really does give you | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
both what is being said, the mindset, | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
the mentality, helps you better understand other people that might | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
be involved in a network that you simply wouldn't see any other way. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
Just like the FBI, recruiting and running | 0:11:15 | 0:11:17 | |
human sources is central to the work of British intelligence, | 0:11:17 | 0:11:21 | |
often far afield in Al-Qaeda's heartlands. | 0:11:21 | 0:11:24 | |
Now for the first time on television, an MI6 officer | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
talks about how it's done. | 0:11:30 | 0:11:31 | |
When you're in some dusty outpost about to meet | 0:11:33 | 0:11:36 | |
for the first time a contact within a terrorist organisation | 0:11:36 | 0:11:41 | |
that you've brokered, | 0:11:41 | 0:11:42 | |
-that is nerve-wracking. -Heart in mouth? | 0:11:42 | 0:11:45 | |
Yes, inevitably. I don't think we'd get very far if we were timid | 0:11:45 | 0:11:49 | |
-and risk averse. -How do you recruit a source? | 0:11:49 | 0:11:53 | |
We'll start with a targeting process, understand who | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
the key figures are, understand the connections between them. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:00 | |
Leading from that would be an assessment of | 0:12:00 | 0:12:03 | |
whether we think any individuals there might be recruitable. | 0:12:03 | 0:12:06 | |
Could we get alongside them? Are they accessible? | 0:12:06 | 0:12:08 | |
Would they have access to information that would be | 0:12:08 | 0:12:10 | |
useful to the government? | 0:12:10 | 0:12:12 | |
Why should they want to become agents working for you? | 0:12:12 | 0:12:15 | |
There are a whole spectrum of motivations. | 0:12:15 | 0:12:17 | |
A lot of the agents that I've run were motivated | 0:12:17 | 0:12:20 | |
because they disagreed with the violent ideology of Al-Qaeda. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:24 | |
They disagreed, for example, with attacks against civilians. | 0:12:24 | 0:12:27 | |
A lot of these people want to better their own life, so money, a future | 0:12:29 | 0:12:34 | |
life in the UK might be things that they're interested in. | 0:12:34 | 0:12:38 | |
It's really the job of our officers to understand what those | 0:12:38 | 0:12:42 | |
motivations are and to persuade people to work with us. | 0:12:42 | 0:12:46 | |
One of the most important sources in the entire so-called | 0:12:47 | 0:12:51 | |
war on terror turned out to be a young American Muslim. | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
In Pakistan, just a month after 9/11, | 0:12:54 | 0:12:58 | |
he openly boasted to a television camera. | 0:12:58 | 0:13:00 | |
We will kill them in Afghanistan. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
There is no negotiation with the Americans when they are coming in | 0:13:02 | 0:13:05 | |
with the mindset to kill my Muslim brothers and sisters. | 0:13:05 | 0:13:08 | |
I will do the same on the frontline. | 0:13:08 | 0:13:09 | |
I will kill every American I see in Afghanistan. | 0:13:09 | 0:13:12 | |
Mohammed Babar had helped set up | 0:13:15 | 0:13:16 | |
a terrorist training camp in Pakistan, | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
attended by many British would-be jihadis. | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
One of them was Kazi Rahman from East London. | 0:13:22 | 0:13:25 | |
The Muslims from Britain, there's hundreds of them | 0:13:25 | 0:13:27 | |
who come over from Britain to Pakistan or Afghanistan. | 0:13:27 | 0:13:31 | |
What we do is we supply them with weapons, clothing, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:35 | |
we feed them, we shelter them. | 0:13:35 | 0:13:36 | |
And we take them over the border and train them up. | 0:13:36 | 0:13:39 | |
Two and a half years after those interviews, | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
Mohammed Babar flew back home to New York. | 0:13:43 | 0:13:46 | |
Remarkably, even this fiercely committed jihadi could be | 0:13:46 | 0:13:49 | |
induced to become a human source. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
Over six months, he told the FBI everything. | 0:13:53 | 0:13:57 | |
What he'd done, who he'd trained with in Pakistan | 0:13:57 | 0:14:00 | |
and the attacks they were planning. | 0:14:00 | 0:14:02 | |
Mohammed Babar was to prove a human source | 0:14:02 | 0:14:05 | |
that intelligence services dream of. | 0:14:05 | 0:14:07 | |
He was critical. He's an individual who had both the access | 0:14:08 | 0:14:12 | |
and the capability to get into groups that simply would not | 0:14:12 | 0:14:16 | |
have existed without him. | 0:14:16 | 0:14:17 | |
Babar talked because he was offered a deal known as a plea bargain. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
In return for a much shorter sentence, he agreed to cooperate | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
and reveal everything. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
Instead of a life sentence, he served just five years | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
and is now a free man. | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
This could not have happened in Britain, | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
because of fears that sources like Babar could fabricate evidence | 0:14:41 | 0:14:44 | |
in the hope of a shorter sentence. | 0:14:44 | 0:14:46 | |
-Do you think the UK would benefit from doing the same? -I do. | 0:14:49 | 0:14:52 | |
If they had access to the information | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
in the heads of the numbers, | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
those numbers of persons who have been arrested over | 0:14:57 | 0:15:00 | |
a period of time as to where they went for their training, | 0:15:00 | 0:15:03 | |
whether it be Pakistan or someplace else, who was | 0:15:03 | 0:15:06 | |
involved in the training, what other plots were in train that would be | 0:15:06 | 0:15:09 | |
of benefit to those agencies to have to access to that intelligence. | 0:15:09 | 0:15:13 | |
Mohammed Babar's evidence helped identify a whole | 0:15:14 | 0:15:17 | |
series of terrorists. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:19 | |
One of them was Kazi Rahman, the British jihadi | 0:15:19 | 0:15:21 | |
whom Babar had met at the training camp in Pakistan. | 0:15:21 | 0:15:25 | |
I can't wait for the day that I meet British soldiers | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
on the battlefield and to see them run. I am very happy to kill them. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:33 | |
By 2005, Rahman was back in Britain and intelligence indicated | 0:15:35 | 0:15:40 | |
he was an imminent threat. | 0:15:40 | 0:15:43 | |
MI5 and the Metropolitan Police prepared to catch him red-handed. | 0:15:43 | 0:15:48 | |
Any operation such as this begins with the bread and butter | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
of spycraft - surveillance. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:55 | |
It can build a detailed picture of a target's life, their routines, | 0:16:00 | 0:16:05 | |
their associates and their intentions. | 0:16:05 | 0:16:08 | |
Do you have any hesitation about spying on the lives of others? | 0:16:12 | 0:16:17 | |
No, not at all. | 0:16:17 | 0:16:18 | |
I know why I'm doing it. I'm trying to prevent something | 0:16:18 | 0:16:23 | |
major occurring which could lead on to loss of life, you know, | 0:16:23 | 0:16:27 | |
-so that's, that's my biggest motivation. -What's it like | 0:16:27 | 0:16:32 | |
when you're doing surveillance, how do you feel? | 0:16:32 | 0:16:36 | |
Excited. You feel a lot of pressure as well, | 0:16:36 | 0:16:39 | |
cos you understand the task at hand and how serious it is. | 0:16:39 | 0:16:43 | |
And you're thinking about any potential hazards or dangers | 0:16:43 | 0:16:47 | |
that might pose a threat to yourself. | 0:16:47 | 0:16:50 | |
When you're out there, how do you think of yourself? | 0:16:50 | 0:16:54 | |
You have to be what I like to call "Mr Grey." | 0:16:54 | 0:16:57 | |
He's a nobody, he's a person you might pass on the street | 0:16:57 | 0:17:01 | |
but you'd forget him in a second. | 0:17:01 | 0:17:04 | |
Surveillance is labour intensive, often involving dozens of officers | 0:17:06 | 0:17:11 | |
working shifts round the clock, just to shadow one target. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
-What's your biggest fear? -Missing it. | 0:17:15 | 0:17:19 | |
Missing a vital bit of information. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:21 | |
Something that will go on to causing loss of life. | 0:17:22 | 0:17:27 | |
That's a big fear of mine. | 0:17:27 | 0:17:30 | |
We have thick smoke coming from the tunnel. | 0:17:32 | 0:17:35 | |
I need to clear now Russell Square! | 0:17:35 | 0:17:38 | |
MI5 missed the 7/7 London bombers, and 52 people died. | 0:17:38 | 0:17:44 | |
In the wake of that horrific day, it was more urgent than ever to | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
catch the British jihadi, Kazi Rahman. | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
MI5 decided to try and catch Rahman in an undercover operation, | 0:17:54 | 0:17:59 | |
known as the sting. | 0:17:59 | 0:18:01 | |
The plan was for undercover officers to meet with Rahman to discover | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
if he was planning attacks. | 0:18:11 | 0:18:14 | |
Spies of the Old School would have seemed out of place | 0:18:14 | 0:18:17 | |
in this kind of operation. | 0:18:17 | 0:18:20 | |
These officers were all British Asians. | 0:18:20 | 0:18:22 | |
It's highly dangerous territory to put yourself into a terrorist group. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:28 | |
I mean, that's an act of great bravery in itself. | 0:18:28 | 0:18:33 | |
An MI5 officer wired for secret recording, posed as a criminal | 0:18:36 | 0:18:39 | |
dealing in counterfeit money and false passports. | 0:18:39 | 0:18:42 | |
-Rahman made it clear he wanted much more. -What else can you provide? | 0:18:42 | 0:18:48 | |
Rahman indicated a handgun using sign language and then an AK 47. | 0:18:50 | 0:18:55 | |
At a motorway service station in the south of England, | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
the undercover officer arranged for Rahman to meet an arms dealer. | 0:19:05 | 0:19:09 | |
But the dealer was spy number two, this time | 0:19:09 | 0:19:13 | |
from the Metropolitan Police. | 0:19:13 | 0:19:15 | |
I need three Uzis with silencers, magazines | 0:19:17 | 0:19:22 | |
and 3,000 rounds of ammunition. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
Very worrying. You don't need machine guns, | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
unless you want to kill a lot of people. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:29 | |
Over a month, the undercover officers gradually | 0:19:29 | 0:19:32 | |
gained Rahman's confidence. He paid a deposit for the guns. | 0:19:32 | 0:19:36 | |
He then upped the stakes and asked for rocket propelled grenades | 0:19:36 | 0:19:39 | |
-and surface to air missiles. -I want RPGs and SAM-7s. | 0:19:39 | 0:19:43 | |
After four months, the trap was ready. | 0:19:46 | 0:19:50 | |
The setting was a quiet cul de sac just off a main road | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
in Hertfordshire. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:55 | |
A third undercover officer was tasked with closing the deal. | 0:19:55 | 0:20:00 | |
And he showed Rahman three Uzis with silencers wrapped in plastic. | 0:20:03 | 0:20:07 | |
At the very moment Rahman got his hands on the guns, | 0:20:14 | 0:20:16 | |
he became suspicious. | 0:20:16 | 0:20:19 | |
Look, I'm really not happy here. This looks like a sting. | 0:20:19 | 0:20:23 | |
ARMED POLICE! STAY WHERE YOU ARE! | 0:20:25 | 0:20:29 | |
But it was too late. Armed police moved in and Rahman was arrested. | 0:20:29 | 0:20:34 | |
My first reaction when I heard that he'd been arrested was | 0:20:34 | 0:20:38 | |
relief that it had been achieved safely. | 0:20:38 | 0:20:40 | |
A potentially hugely dangerous terrorist was now behind bars. | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
Rahman had been stung. | 0:20:46 | 0:20:49 | |
The evidence of the FBI's super source, Mohammed Babar, | 0:20:49 | 0:20:52 | |
was essential. | 0:20:52 | 0:20:55 | |
Rahman was convicted and sentenced to nine years. | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
A potential atrocity had been prevented. | 0:20:58 | 0:21:01 | |
What gives you the greatest satisfaction in what you do? | 0:21:01 | 0:21:06 | |
The arrest of the individuals that we've gone up against, | 0:21:06 | 0:21:11 | |
that's a great satisfaction, | 0:21:11 | 0:21:13 | |
that we've disrupted anything that could have possibly occurred. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:18 | |
But in any operation, MI5 surveillance officers | 0:21:18 | 0:21:21 | |
on the ground are supported by a team of analysts back at base. | 0:21:21 | 0:21:26 | |
Their job is to sift through all the intelligence that comes in, | 0:21:26 | 0:21:29 | |
not only from surveillance, but also from intercepts, | 0:21:29 | 0:21:32 | |
agents and foreign services. | 0:21:32 | 0:21:34 | |
It's really like piecing together a jigsaw. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:38 | |
We're constantly asking ourselves the big question, which is, | 0:21:38 | 0:21:41 | |
"What is this network involved in? | 0:21:41 | 0:21:44 | |
"Is this an attack planning network or what do we know | 0:21:44 | 0:21:47 | |
"these individuals are actually doing?" | 0:21:47 | 0:21:50 | |
I believe your department has information on plans | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
for the Polaris mixed fleet. | 0:21:54 | 0:21:55 | |
-My boss had. I shouldn't have told you. -Of course not. But you have! | 0:21:55 | 0:22:02 | |
50 years ago, the dominant threat was Reds under the Bed. | 0:22:02 | 0:22:07 | |
The world has now changed beyond recognition. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
But elements of Cold War spycraft are still in use. | 0:22:14 | 0:22:18 | |
And what's more, the West's old enemies are still out there. | 0:22:18 | 0:22:24 | |
In the years following 9/11, what the US government found itself | 0:22:24 | 0:22:29 | |
in need of doing urgently, was to retool our entire national | 0:22:29 | 0:22:34 | |
security apparatus to deal with the threat presented by Al-Qaeda. | 0:22:34 | 0:22:37 | |
And did counter-intelligence suffer? | 0:22:37 | 0:22:40 | |
I think there is no question there was a trade off in resources. | 0:22:40 | 0:22:43 | |
Counter intelligence is tracking down spies from foreign governments. | 0:22:45 | 0:22:49 | |
From the end of the Second World War, | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
the traditional enemy was Russia. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
And it seems the KGB's successors simply | 0:22:54 | 0:22:56 | |
carried on where the KGB left off. | 0:22:56 | 0:22:58 | |
The break up of the former Soviet Union did not wipe away | 0:23:02 | 0:23:07 | |
the memories and the knowledge of how to work effectively against us. | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
I think the public would be surprised to know that we | 0:23:11 | 0:23:14 | |
still see intelligence officers posted to | 0:23:14 | 0:23:17 | |
the United States in the same numbers that we | 0:23:17 | 0:23:20 | |
saw during the height of the Cold War, so that has not diminished. | 0:23:20 | 0:23:24 | |
And the classic Cold War fear was Soviet spies living | 0:23:25 | 0:23:30 | |
under cover in our midst, awaiting Moscow's bidding. | 0:23:30 | 0:23:33 | |
It's known as the sleeper cell. | 0:23:33 | 0:23:36 | |
Montclair, New Jersey - the quintessential | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
prosperous New York suburb. | 0:23:44 | 0:23:46 | |
The last place you'd expect to find a spy ring. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
For more than 15 years, Richard | 0:23:55 | 0:23:57 | |
and Cynthia Murphy appeared to be the perfect, all-American family. | 0:23:57 | 0:24:01 | |
The wife was always, you know, charming and pleasant | 0:24:03 | 0:24:07 | |
and a lovely smile. | 0:24:07 | 0:24:08 | |
They were a regular family that fit in with the other families here. | 0:24:08 | 0:24:11 | |
She was always making sure her front yard looked beautiful. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
She was passionate about her gardening. | 0:24:15 | 0:24:17 | |
But Cynthia Murphy was actually part of a long term Russian | 0:24:21 | 0:24:25 | |
sleeper cell planted in the heart of America in the mid 1990s. | 0:24:25 | 0:24:29 | |
This is a long term assignment, the very concept of sleeper is | 0:24:30 | 0:24:34 | |
that they're activated when they need to be. They have a mission. | 0:24:34 | 0:24:38 | |
Here was a group of at least ten Russian spies who spent over | 0:24:40 | 0:24:44 | |
a decade quietly infiltrating influential policy circles. | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
Cynthia worked her way up to a top banking job in Downtown Manhattan. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
Meanwhile, her husband ostensibly stayed at home looking after | 0:24:55 | 0:24:59 | |
the children, while secretly acting as an undercover | 0:24:59 | 0:25:02 | |
courier for his Russian handler. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
But an FBI operation, codenamed Ghost Stories, | 0:25:05 | 0:25:09 | |
was just as elaborate and lasted ten years. | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
Surveillance videos recorded in detail the Russian cell's | 0:25:13 | 0:25:16 | |
well-honed spycraft. | 0:25:16 | 0:25:18 | |
The brush pass, where identical bags are swapped. | 0:25:18 | 0:25:22 | |
Inside could be documents, memory sticks or money. | 0:25:22 | 0:25:25 | |
And the dead drop, | 0:25:27 | 0:25:29 | |
a secret hiding place for thousands of dollars to fund the spy ring. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
Most of the sleeper cell, like Cynthia Murphy, | 0:25:37 | 0:25:39 | |
were what's known as dead doubles. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:42 | |
Dead doubles are operatives who have stolen the identities of | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
dead infants who generally match their date of birth, so in this case | 0:25:46 | 0:25:51 | |
most of the Russian illegals were in fact dead doubles. | 0:25:51 | 0:25:54 | |
Walking, walking dead. | 0:25:54 | 0:25:56 | |
Creating a false identity is part of the stock in trade of spycraft. | 0:25:57 | 0:26:01 | |
It's known as creating a legend or alias. | 0:26:01 | 0:26:05 | |
It's quite nerve-wracking the first time you deploy under alias, | 0:26:07 | 0:26:11 | |
overseas, under a different name, under a different identity, | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
pretending to have a different kind of employment. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:20 | |
So there's a lot of preparatory work that you need to do to make | 0:26:20 | 0:26:24 | |
sure that you understand the person that you're supposed to be. | 0:26:24 | 0:26:27 | |
-You become somebody else. -You become somebody else. | 0:26:27 | 0:26:31 | |
Spying is a never ending battle. | 0:26:31 | 0:26:33 | |
As soon as one technique is closed off, a new one is needed. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:37 | |
After 9/11, there was a huge increase in American security | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
and the Russians could no longer use false identities with impunity. | 0:26:41 | 0:26:46 | |
In 2006, the glamorous Russian spy Anna Chapman | 0:26:46 | 0:26:50 | |
moved to New York to join the sleeper cell. | 0:26:50 | 0:26:52 | |
But she was using her own name, | 0:26:52 | 0:26:55 | |
having once been married to a British citizen. | 0:26:55 | 0:26:57 | |
She was extremely savvy, very engaging, tremendous | 0:26:58 | 0:27:01 | |
interpersonal skills, very attractive young lady, very bright | 0:27:01 | 0:27:05 | |
young lady and trained in technology and covert communications. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:10 | |
A risk for any spy is to be seen meeting their handler. | 0:27:12 | 0:27:16 | |
So Chapman came equipped with a brand new | 0:27:16 | 0:27:18 | |
and ingenious technique to avoid face to face contact. | 0:27:18 | 0:27:22 | |
An encrypted wireless connection allowed a stream of data to | 0:27:22 | 0:27:26 | |
be sent to her handler waiting nearby. | 0:27:26 | 0:27:29 | |
There's a video that shows her shopping in New York City, | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
but she's doing far more than shopping. | 0:27:33 | 0:27:35 | |
As she shops, you'll also see her fiddling with something in a bag. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:39 | |
Well, she's fiddling with a laptop | 0:27:39 | 0:27:41 | |
and she's transmitting a message to a Russian official who's in close | 0:27:41 | 0:27:46 | |
proximity. He's not in the store but he's outside in the neighbourhood. | 0:27:46 | 0:27:50 | |
Every week, Chapman rendezvous-ed with her handler to | 0:27:51 | 0:27:54 | |
pass on her secret information. | 0:27:54 | 0:27:56 | |
But the FBI had broken Russian encryption | 0:27:56 | 0:28:00 | |
and reading the messages made them increasingly nervous. | 0:28:00 | 0:28:04 | |
We were becoming very concerned. They were getting close enough to | 0:28:04 | 0:28:08 | |
a sitting US cabinet member that we thought | 0:28:08 | 0:28:12 | |
we could no longer allow this to continue. | 0:28:12 | 0:28:14 | |
Who was the US Cabinet member? | 0:28:14 | 0:28:16 | |
Well, something that we've never publicly disclosed. | 0:28:16 | 0:28:18 | |
Was the Cabinet member warned? | 0:28:18 | 0:28:20 | |
Yes. | 0:28:20 | 0:28:22 | |
Having cracked the Russian encryption code, the FBI | 0:28:27 | 0:28:32 | |
could now send Anna Chapman messages and even pose as her new handler. | 0:28:32 | 0:28:36 | |
In June 2010, the FBI took the final and most audacious step - | 0:28:38 | 0:28:44 | |
arranging a face to face meeting with Chapman. | 0:28:44 | 0:28:48 | |
Tell me, how are you doing? | 0:28:48 | 0:28:50 | |
Everything is cool apart from the connection. | 0:28:50 | 0:28:53 | |
So convincing was the FBI undercover agent | 0:28:53 | 0:28:56 | |
that Anna Chapman literally turned over her | 0:28:56 | 0:28:59 | |
covert communication laptop to the FBI, which the undercover agent | 0:28:59 | 0:29:03 | |
was more than happy to take. Told the undercover agent | 0:29:03 | 0:29:06 | |
she was having technical problems and told him to fix it. | 0:29:06 | 0:29:09 | |
I understand you're going to Moscow in two weeks | 0:29:09 | 0:29:12 | |
-but I have something for you to do tomorrow. -Shit. Of course. | 0:29:12 | 0:29:17 | |
-This is the passport. -In order to prove that she was a spy, | 0:29:19 | 0:29:22 | |
the FBI asked her to be a courier to hand over forged documents. | 0:29:22 | 0:29:26 | |
She will say, "Haven't we met in California last summer?" | 0:29:26 | 0:29:30 | |
You will say to her, "No, I think it was The Hamptons." | 0:29:30 | 0:29:34 | |
Like something straight out of a spy movie, | 0:29:34 | 0:29:36 | |
the undercover agent gave Chapman the coded introductions | 0:29:36 | 0:29:40 | |
the FBI knew the Russian spy ring was using. | 0:29:40 | 0:29:43 | |
She will come up to me and say, "Haven't we met in California?" | 0:29:43 | 0:29:48 | |
and I will say "No, I think it was The Hamptons." | 0:29:48 | 0:29:52 | |
Then give her the documents and get her to sign. | 0:29:52 | 0:29:55 | |
"You're positive no one is watching?" | 0:29:55 | 0:29:58 | |
Chapman sensed there was something wrong. | 0:29:58 | 0:30:01 | |
This is the moment any spy dreads - having their cover blown. | 0:30:01 | 0:30:06 | |
An hour after meeting the FBI undercover agent, | 0:30:06 | 0:30:09 | |
she rushed off to buy a new mobile phone under a false name. | 0:30:09 | 0:30:13 | |
She listed her address as 99 Fake Street. But it was too late. | 0:30:13 | 0:30:19 | |
The FBI arrested her and the rest of the sleeper cell. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:23 | |
Had they been allowed to continue, it's hard to say | 0:30:23 | 0:30:27 | |
where their efforts would have ended. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:29 | |
Why did you decide to swoop when you did? | 0:30:29 | 0:30:32 | |
There were a number of reasons there, not least of which is, | 0:30:32 | 0:30:35 | |
several of the individuals were on their way out of the country | 0:30:35 | 0:30:38 | |
and we would have lost our opportunity to detain them. | 0:30:38 | 0:30:41 | |
The neighbours in Montclair just couldn't believe it. | 0:30:43 | 0:30:46 | |
Thought it was a joke. If someone had told me | 0:30:46 | 0:30:50 | |
that Martians were living next door, I would have believed that first | 0:30:50 | 0:30:52 | |
before I'd believe we had Russian spies. | 0:30:52 | 0:30:55 | |
You know, when you think of spies, you don't think of parents | 0:30:55 | 0:30:58 | |
with little kids. | 0:30:58 | 0:30:59 | |
One of the neighbours told us they couldn't possibly be spies, | 0:30:59 | 0:31:03 | |
just look at their hydrangeas. These were expert gardeners | 0:31:03 | 0:31:07 | |
caring for their lawn and maintaining their garden. | 0:31:07 | 0:31:11 | |
Mr and Mrs Murphy's real names were Lidiya and Vladimir Guryev. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:18 | |
Theirs was a marriage made in Moscow. | 0:31:18 | 0:31:21 | |
These were couples that had been manufactured, | 0:31:21 | 0:31:25 | |
marriages that had been appointed by the Russian intelligence service. | 0:31:25 | 0:31:28 | |
They came out of the Russian intelligence academy | 0:31:28 | 0:31:32 | |
paired with each other for this special assignment. | 0:31:32 | 0:31:34 | |
Part of this plan, this sleeper cell, included having children and | 0:31:34 | 0:31:40 | |
perhaps that's one of the saddest parts of this story, is children | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
learning that their parents are not at all who they believe them | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
to be and that perhaps their very existence was part of a fabrication | 0:31:46 | 0:31:52 | |
-of a foreign intelligence service. -For Mother Russia. | 0:31:52 | 0:31:55 | |
Indeed. To carry out the orders of Mother Russia. | 0:31:55 | 0:32:00 | |
The Murphy's house now stands empty, the property of Moscow Centre. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:06 | |
In the end, there were no prosecutions. | 0:32:07 | 0:32:09 | |
There was a spy swap, reminiscent of Cold War days. | 0:32:09 | 0:32:13 | |
Anna Chapman and the other nine spies were exchanged for four | 0:32:15 | 0:32:18 | |
Russian nationals on the runway of Vienna airport. | 0:32:18 | 0:32:22 | |
One of them was Igor Sutyagin. | 0:32:22 | 0:32:24 | |
Two planes were parked next to each other. | 0:32:24 | 0:32:27 | |
So it took, oh...40 seconds. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:29 | |
We stepped, stepped on the ladder | 0:32:29 | 0:32:32 | |
and we were aboard the American plane. | 0:32:32 | 0:32:34 | |
Igor Sutyagin had served 11 years in Russian prison camps for spying. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:40 | |
He's a nuclear weapons expert and admits he regularly met | 0:32:40 | 0:32:45 | |
American defence officials at the US Embassy in Moscow. | 0:32:45 | 0:32:49 | |
But he denies he was ever a spy. | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
Given the kind of work you were doing | 0:32:52 | 0:32:55 | |
and the kind of people you were associating with, | 0:32:55 | 0:32:57 | |
from America's defence intelligence agency, it seems that you | 0:32:57 | 0:33:03 | |
were a likely candidate to be recruited by the Americans? | 0:33:03 | 0:33:07 | |
Well maybe, that is quite possible, | 0:33:07 | 0:33:09 | |
I don't know. I have some doubt. It seemed to me that I was too visible. | 0:33:09 | 0:33:14 | |
I openly visited these person in the embassy. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:19 | |
It seemed to me that spies tried to hide. | 0:33:19 | 0:33:22 | |
Russia has retained a huge espionage apparatus. | 0:33:22 | 0:33:27 | |
And Sutyagin believes the Kremlin's spymasters need it | 0:33:27 | 0:33:30 | |
to justify their existence. | 0:33:30 | 0:33:32 | |
The Cold War is not over. | 0:33:32 | 0:33:34 | |
At least in brains of the current Russian leaders. | 0:33:34 | 0:33:38 | |
They believed they grow up in the Cold War time, | 0:33:38 | 0:33:44 | |
they feel comfortable in the cold war environment. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:47 | |
Somewhere deep in their brains, the Cold War is still here. | 0:33:47 | 0:33:51 | |
President Putin was once a KGB spymaster himself | 0:33:51 | 0:33:55 | |
and sang Anna Chapman's praises. | 0:33:55 | 0:33:59 | |
She returned to her Homeland a hero | 0:33:59 | 0:34:01 | |
and joined the annual military parade in Red Square. | 0:34:01 | 0:34:05 | |
It's a great day for this nation so I'm here to celebrate it. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:08 | |
She now has a new career as a model and even hosts her own TV show. | 0:34:12 | 0:34:19 | |
The FBI suspected that Chapman might have been the bait to elicit secrets | 0:34:20 | 0:34:25 | |
from powerful men in high places | 0:34:25 | 0:34:27 | |
in what's known as the honey trap. | 0:34:27 | 0:34:30 | |
Was she a honey trap? | 0:34:32 | 0:34:34 | |
I think part of her value was indeed her ability to be engaging, | 0:34:35 | 0:34:39 | |
charismatic, and I think to that extent | 0:34:39 | 0:34:42 | |
she might have been viewed by them as a potential honey trap. She was | 0:34:42 | 0:34:46 | |
getting closer and closer to higher and higher ranking leadership. | 0:34:46 | 0:34:50 | |
How close did she get? | 0:34:50 | 0:34:52 | |
She got close enough to disturb us. | 0:34:52 | 0:34:54 | |
Here. | 0:34:54 | 0:34:56 | |
That's going to be the last one for a while. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:01 | |
-Am I going to see you tonight? -Yeah. | 0:35:03 | 0:35:05 | |
POLICE SIRENS FBI! Let me see your hands! | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
Drop the cup, mam. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:13 | |
The FBI is so concerned, that it's produced a video warning government | 0:35:13 | 0:35:17 | |
employees to watch out for traitors being seduced in their midst. | 0:35:17 | 0:35:21 | |
Is the honey trap purely a Hollywood fiction? | 0:35:21 | 0:35:24 | |
No! Gosh, no. Of course it's not. | 0:35:24 | 0:35:26 | |
The honey trap is used extensively by other countries. | 0:35:26 | 0:35:30 | |
The money flowed and he was caught in a honey trap. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:35 | |
It plays to an ego, usually plays to an ego of an older guy. | 0:35:36 | 0:35:41 | |
Pretty girl, probably should figure it out when you see it. | 0:35:41 | 0:35:45 | |
She's probably not in your league | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
when she sits next to you in a bar or is the translator | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
at a conference or whatever | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
and strikes up a friendship, asks for contact information, | 0:35:53 | 0:35:58 | |
within a short period of time becomes your girlfriend | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
and then the pillow talk causes a leak of significant information. | 0:36:00 | 0:36:05 | |
But when that happens, when the pretty girl comes up to you in a bar | 0:36:05 | 0:36:09 | |
and you're an FBI agent, don't the red lights start flashing? | 0:36:09 | 0:36:14 | |
I imagine they should. Yeah. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:17 | |
-I admire your luck, Mr...? -Bond. | 0:36:17 | 0:36:21 | |
-James Bond. -Mr Bond... | 0:36:23 | 0:36:26 | |
Traditional spycraft like the honey trap | 0:36:26 | 0:36:29 | |
may still be with us, but the days when spies | 0:36:29 | 0:36:32 | |
tried their luck in glamorous, high rolling circles are over. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:36 | |
It's not the age, the James Bond age where you're going to | 0:36:36 | 0:36:38 | |
someone at a cocktail party and coming out of the British | 0:36:38 | 0:36:41 | |
and American Embassy saying, I'm the second secretary. | 0:36:41 | 0:36:44 | |
Those days are over. | 0:36:44 | 0:36:45 | |
Now there's a new breed of modern spy, known as the cut out. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:50 | |
And the country that is master of the cut out is | 0:36:55 | 0:36:59 | |
the People's Republic of China. | 0:36:59 | 0:37:01 | |
The Chinese are aggressively targeting government insiders | 0:37:02 | 0:37:05 | |
like this man, Gregg Bergersen, | 0:37:05 | 0:37:07 | |
a weapons analyst at the Pentagon with top secret security clearance. | 0:37:07 | 0:37:12 | |
I think when you see the information, | 0:37:13 | 0:37:16 | |
you can get out of it what you need. | 0:37:16 | 0:37:18 | |
Two FBI surveillance cameras capture him | 0:37:18 | 0:37:21 | |
getting his pay off from a Taiwanese businessman, Tai-Shen Kuo. | 0:37:21 | 0:37:26 | |
Mr Kuo just basically takes around 2,000 in cash and just | 0:37:26 | 0:37:30 | |
sticks it in Mr Bergersen's pocket. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
-Oh, you sure that's OK? -Yeah! | 0:37:35 | 0:37:38 | |
Mr Bergersen says, oh, jeez, that's great, thank you so much. | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
Mr Kuo was a cut out. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:45 | |
A middleman doing the work of his Chinese spymaster. | 0:37:45 | 0:37:48 | |
And Western intelligence believes China is running | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
battalions of such cut outs to do the spying for them. | 0:37:51 | 0:37:55 | |
And they're much more difficult to detect. | 0:37:55 | 0:37:58 | |
They could be students, | 0:37:58 | 0:37:59 | |
university professors or businessmen like Kuo, who was recruited | 0:37:59 | 0:38:03 | |
when he needed help to develop his business in China. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
Their MO is to become the eyes | 0:38:08 | 0:38:10 | |
and ears of the intelligence practitioner on the other end. | 0:38:10 | 0:38:15 | |
It's all classified. | 0:38:15 | 0:38:18 | |
But I will let you see it and you can take all the notes you want. | 0:38:18 | 0:38:23 | |
They drive to a hotel where Bergersen happily gives Kuo | 0:38:23 | 0:38:28 | |
a top secret document to copy. | 0:38:28 | 0:38:31 | |
He gets a glass of wine and a cigar and he goes outside | 0:38:31 | 0:38:34 | |
and over the next hour, Mr Kuo copies | 0:38:34 | 0:38:37 | |
the information from the classified sheet into his own notes. | 0:38:37 | 0:38:41 | |
In 2007, Bergersen was sentenced to five years | 0:38:42 | 0:38:46 | |
and Tai-Shen Kuo to 15. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:48 | |
But the spymaster remained safely in China. | 0:38:48 | 0:38:52 | |
China is accused of stealing military | 0:38:54 | 0:38:56 | |
and industrial secrets on an unprecedented scale. | 0:38:56 | 0:39:00 | |
One of the first things that I did when I assumed | 0:39:02 | 0:39:04 | |
my responsibilities as Head of US Counter Intelligence, was to | 0:39:04 | 0:39:08 | |
read all of the damage assessments. I was astounded at the extent | 0:39:08 | 0:39:13 | |
to which we had suffered serious, serious losses. One example, | 0:39:13 | 0:39:19 | |
the Chinese, by espionage, | 0:39:19 | 0:39:23 | |
acquired all of the design information | 0:39:23 | 0:39:28 | |
of US nuclear weapons | 0:39:28 | 0:39:31 | |
currently in our inventory. CURRENTLY in our inventory. | 0:39:31 | 0:39:35 | |
We know that have that information. We still don't know how they got it. | 0:39:37 | 0:39:40 | |
The 21st century has opened up a formidable new front | 0:39:42 | 0:39:45 | |
in the espionage war and there's a dramatic new weapon - | 0:39:45 | 0:39:49 | |
the cyber spy. | 0:39:49 | 0:39:50 | |
We used to be concerned about the passing of an envelope | 0:39:52 | 0:39:55 | |
full of documents. Today, we're concerned about entire networks | 0:39:55 | 0:39:58 | |
being penetrated in the cyber realm. We're concerned about terabytes, | 0:39:58 | 0:40:03 | |
gigabytes of information passing in a heartbeat across the ocean. | 0:40:03 | 0:40:08 | |
And it seems that the cyber spy can go anywhere and get anything. | 0:40:12 | 0:40:17 | |
Lockheed Martin's F-35 Lightning fighter is America's | 0:40:17 | 0:40:21 | |
most advanced warplane. | 0:40:21 | 0:40:23 | |
At almost 400 billion, it's the US Defense Department's | 0:40:26 | 0:40:29 | |
costliest weapons programme ever. | 0:40:29 | 0:40:32 | |
The F-35 contains the latest top secret stealth technology | 0:40:33 | 0:40:37 | |
that enables it to avoid enemy radar. | 0:40:37 | 0:40:39 | |
Last year, the Chinese showed off their latest fighter. | 0:40:43 | 0:40:47 | |
It looks remarkably like the F-35. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:49 | |
The Americans believe its stealth technology was stolen | 0:40:49 | 0:40:53 | |
via the internet, a charge China denies. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:57 | |
When you're talking about giving up technology, | 0:40:57 | 0:41:01 | |
defence research, you're talking about the difference | 0:41:01 | 0:41:06 | |
between perhaps winning a battle and losing a battle. | 0:41:06 | 0:41:09 | |
That's this game we're in, a game with very deadly consequences. | 0:41:09 | 0:41:13 | |
This high-tech fortress is one of the most secret | 0:41:15 | 0:41:18 | |
and secure locations in Britain, GCHQ, | 0:41:18 | 0:41:21 | |
the Government Communication Headquarters in Cheltenham. | 0:41:21 | 0:41:25 | |
It's Britain's vital line of defence in the war against cyber spies. | 0:41:25 | 0:41:29 | |
TV cameras have never been allowed to film inside before. | 0:41:31 | 0:41:36 | |
Mark uses computer skills practiced since childhood | 0:41:38 | 0:41:41 | |
to defend against cyber attacks. | 0:41:41 | 0:41:44 | |
The first computer I ever had, I was about the age of eight. I was | 0:41:45 | 0:41:48 | |
-writing computer programmes before I was ten. -Are you a geek? | 0:41:48 | 0:41:52 | |
I'm absolutely a geek. And the office is full of them. | 0:41:52 | 0:41:57 | |
It's been lovely to come and work at a place where everyone | 0:41:57 | 0:42:01 | |
is as geeky as each other and we're all pulling | 0:42:01 | 0:42:04 | |
-together for a common effort. -And you're proud to be a geek? | 0:42:04 | 0:42:07 | |
Absolutely, very proud to be a geek. | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
Everything that we do is strictly controlled within the law. | 0:42:10 | 0:42:14 | |
I do penetration testing. We use techniques to test | 0:42:14 | 0:42:18 | |
the security of the UK government systems in the same | 0:42:18 | 0:42:22 | |
kinds of ways as a malicious hacker might do in order to identify the | 0:42:22 | 0:42:26 | |
flaws and vulnerabilities before, before the bad guys do, really. | 0:42:26 | 0:42:29 | |
How good are the hackers that you're up against? | 0:42:30 | 0:42:33 | |
They're very good. We just have to make sure that we're, | 0:42:33 | 0:42:36 | |
you know, keeping up with them and hopefully even better than they are. | 0:42:36 | 0:42:40 | |
GCHQ says government departments are targeted with 20,000 | 0:42:42 | 0:42:46 | |
hostile emails a month. | 0:42:46 | 0:42:49 | |
But it's nothing to what one Baltic State next door to Russia suffered. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:54 | |
Estonia is one of the most wired places on the planet and in 2007, | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
the whole country was targeted with a massive cyber attack. | 0:42:59 | 0:43:03 | |
It lasted over four weeks. | 0:43:03 | 0:43:05 | |
Millions of computers around the world had been | 0:43:08 | 0:43:11 | |
infiltrated by malicious software viruses. | 0:43:11 | 0:43:14 | |
They were then used to target and overload Estonia's computer network. | 0:43:14 | 0:43:18 | |
An adversary will send out malware to computers | 0:43:18 | 0:43:23 | |
and it allows those computers to be controlled by one master computer. | 0:43:23 | 0:43:27 | |
So an adversary can control, in effect, hundreds of thousands | 0:43:27 | 0:43:31 | |
or in some cases, millions of computers from one computer. | 0:43:31 | 0:43:35 | |
Overloaded computer systems crashed at Estonia's two main banks, | 0:43:35 | 0:43:40 | |
in the media and in a host of government departments. | 0:43:40 | 0:43:44 | |
It is actually a little bit frightening. | 0:43:44 | 0:43:46 | |
I felt that my country was under attack. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:49 | |
They used actually professional tools, so it is quite clear | 0:43:49 | 0:43:52 | |
that there was some kind of really strong coordination behind it. | 0:43:52 | 0:43:57 | |
What's your personal view as to where the coordination came from? | 0:43:57 | 0:44:00 | |
The country actually who has something | 0:44:00 | 0:44:03 | |
against the Estonia, politically, is quite clearly Russia. | 0:44:03 | 0:44:07 | |
For nearly 50 years, Estonia was ruled by Russia | 0:44:09 | 0:44:13 | |
and it was this Soviet war memorial that triggered the crisis. | 0:44:13 | 0:44:16 | |
There were rumours that the Estonian government had destroyed it, | 0:44:16 | 0:44:20 | |
provoking Estonia's Russian minority to riot. | 0:44:20 | 0:44:24 | |
The cyber attacks soon followed. | 0:44:24 | 0:44:27 | |
If there is somebody who looks like a dog, | 0:44:27 | 0:44:29 | |
barks and bites like a dog, then most probably it's a dog. | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
I think there was some, let's say, | 0:44:32 | 0:44:38 | |
sympathisers to the Soviet cause behind those attacks. | 0:44:38 | 0:44:45 | |
The Russian Government denies any involvement. | 0:44:46 | 0:44:49 | |
For the modern spy, the cyber attack is the perfect crime, | 0:44:49 | 0:44:52 | |
almost undetectable. | 0:44:52 | 0:44:54 | |
The FBI now has cyber agents embedded in countries like Estonia | 0:44:56 | 0:44:59 | |
to fight the threat from the internet. | 0:44:59 | 0:45:03 | |
You don't actually have to go outside and carry out the task. | 0:45:03 | 0:45:07 | |
You can basically do this from your bedroom. | 0:45:07 | 0:45:10 | |
They can direct their attack through several different countries, | 0:45:10 | 0:45:13 | |
before it reaches the victim computer. Truly borderless. | 0:45:13 | 0:45:17 | |
The British Government is investing £650 million | 0:45:19 | 0:45:21 | |
to counter the cyber threat. | 0:45:21 | 0:45:24 | |
The Ministry of Defence's Global Operations | 0:45:24 | 0:45:26 | |
and Cyber Security Centre is central to that operation. | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
These are the secret computers that mount a round the clock vigil | 0:45:32 | 0:45:35 | |
to defend the military's global communications | 0:45:35 | 0:45:38 | |
and computer systems from attack. | 0:45:38 | 0:45:39 | |
Almost the whole span of human life now, from what | 0:45:41 | 0:45:44 | |
people are doing on the internet as individuals, to how armies | 0:45:44 | 0:45:49 | |
operate on a battlefield, are affected by our cyber-capabilities. | 0:45:49 | 0:45:53 | |
And that means we have to be able to defend ourselves in cyber space, | 0:45:53 | 0:45:57 | |
and sometimes defend ourselves in a very aggressive way. | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
Despite the reliance on such awesome technology | 0:46:03 | 0:46:06 | |
and the billions spent on Britain's intelligence services, | 0:46:06 | 0:46:09 | |
things don't always go according to plan. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:12 | |
In March last year, | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
the Foreign Secretary authorised a top secret mission to Libya. | 0:46:18 | 0:46:23 | |
At around three o'clock in the morning, a special forces Chinook helicopter | 0:46:25 | 0:46:29 | |
landed somewhere outside the rebel stronghold of Benghazi. | 0:46:29 | 0:46:34 | |
On board was an MI6 officer protected by six | 0:46:36 | 0:46:40 | |
heavily armed SAS minders. | 0:46:40 | 0:46:43 | |
The operation began just like the movies. | 0:46:43 | 0:46:45 | |
Its purpose was to make contact with the rebel leadership | 0:46:50 | 0:46:54 | |
that was fighting to overthrow Colonel Gaddafi. | 0:46:54 | 0:46:56 | |
Here was a dictator, setting about murdering huge numbers | 0:46:59 | 0:47:02 | |
of his own people. It was in our national interest to do something | 0:47:02 | 0:47:05 | |
about that. Now, intelligence does not in any way dictate our decision, | 0:47:05 | 0:47:11 | |
but of course, it helps us to come to our decision about what to do. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:15 | |
The plan was to use a farm as an operating base | 0:47:16 | 0:47:20 | |
with the support of the British farm manager - but no-one had | 0:47:20 | 0:47:23 | |
informed the rebel leaders that an MI6 emissary was coming. | 0:47:23 | 0:47:27 | |
Really, we were surprised, you know? | 0:47:27 | 0:47:29 | |
Me, personally, I have no idea about it, no. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
Never heard about that at all. | 0:47:34 | 0:47:35 | |
Had the British told anyone in the NTC that they were coming? | 0:47:35 | 0:47:39 | |
That time, as a secretary of the NTC, I have no idea. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:42 | |
The council, nobody knows. | 0:47:44 | 0:47:46 | |
Locals had been warned to watch out for looters | 0:47:48 | 0:47:50 | |
and Gaddafi's fighters, as the situation grew increasingly tense. | 0:47:50 | 0:47:54 | |
I managed to track down one of the farm guards, who told me | 0:47:57 | 0:48:00 | |
what happened that night. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
What did you hear? | 0:48:02 | 0:48:03 | |
TRANSLATION: The noise of a helicopter. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
And they flew over the farm? | 0:48:06 | 0:48:08 | |
TRANSLATION: They flew over the farm. | 0:48:08 | 0:48:11 | |
We were surprised and then we became suspicious. | 0:48:11 | 0:48:14 | |
The guards watched as the MI6 officer and the British team | 0:48:19 | 0:48:22 | |
drove into the farm and started unloading their equipment. | 0:48:22 | 0:48:26 | |
TRANSLATION: We thought it was odd this was happening. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:31 | |
It made us suspicious. | 0:48:31 | 0:48:33 | |
Who did you fear they might be? | 0:48:33 | 0:48:36 | |
TRANSLATION: We didn't really know. | 0:48:36 | 0:48:40 | |
We wanted to find out what they were carrying with them | 0:48:40 | 0:48:43 | |
and who they were. | 0:48:43 | 0:48:44 | |
The intruders were quickly surrounded | 0:48:50 | 0:48:52 | |
and captured by armed guards. | 0:48:52 | 0:48:54 | |
They offered no resistance. This is not how the movie was meant to end. | 0:48:54 | 0:48:59 | |
The team looked on as their highly sensitive military | 0:49:01 | 0:49:05 | |
communications were exposed. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:07 | |
They were held and interrogated for several days. | 0:49:08 | 0:49:12 | |
It was embarrassing for MI6, | 0:49:12 | 0:49:14 | |
but even more so for the Foreign Secretary. | 0:49:14 | 0:49:17 | |
Last week, I authorised the dispatch of a small diplomatic team | 0:49:17 | 0:49:21 | |
to Eastern Libya in uncertain circumstances which we judged | 0:49:21 | 0:49:24 | |
required their protection. They were withdrawn yesterday | 0:49:24 | 0:49:28 | |
after a serious misunderstanding about their role | 0:49:28 | 0:49:31 | |
leading to their temporary detention. | 0:49:31 | 0:49:34 | |
There were other routes into Libya. And other countries' spies | 0:49:36 | 0:49:40 | |
had already driven into Benghazi from neighbouring Egypt. | 0:49:40 | 0:49:43 | |
The SAS wanted to go in the same way, but were overruled. | 0:49:43 | 0:49:48 | |
Why was the decision made to send in SIS | 0:49:50 | 0:49:55 | |
and SAS officers into Libya | 0:49:55 | 0:49:58 | |
by the back door, when the Italian and the French | 0:49:58 | 0:50:02 | |
intelligence services went in under cover of humanitarian aid? | 0:50:02 | 0:50:07 | |
Well, I'm not going to go into operational details | 0:50:07 | 0:50:10 | |
about these things, there were good reasons for that. | 0:50:10 | 0:50:13 | |
Clearly, this was something that went wrong. | 0:50:13 | 0:50:16 | |
Sometimes operations do go wrong. | 0:50:16 | 0:50:19 | |
Whereas actually such failings are very rare in the operations | 0:50:19 | 0:50:24 | |
that our intelligence agencies conduct. | 0:50:24 | 0:50:26 | |
Although the operation was an embarrassing public failure, | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
MI6 finally made contact with the rebels. | 0:50:31 | 0:50:35 | |
Behind the scenes, MI6 supplied them with advanced communications | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
equipment and intelligence about plots to assassinate their leaders. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:45 | |
Spying is not an infallible science. But governments often rely on it. | 0:50:48 | 0:50:54 | |
Which is why accuracy is so vital. | 0:50:54 | 0:50:55 | |
In the end, human beings make judgements - | 0:50:57 | 0:51:00 | |
and those judgements can be misinterpreted. | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
How certain can you be that the intelligence that you have got | 0:51:03 | 0:51:08 | |
is right? | 0:51:08 | 0:51:10 | |
We are constantly assessing our agents, constantly | 0:51:10 | 0:51:14 | |
questioning what they are saying, making sure that we're still | 0:51:14 | 0:51:17 | |
confident in their access, in their motivations and their suitability, | 0:51:17 | 0:51:22 | |
that we can trust them, that they're not feeding us false information. | 0:51:22 | 0:51:26 | |
And when you have just one source, | 0:51:27 | 0:51:30 | |
the stakes can be life threateningly high. | 0:51:30 | 0:51:32 | |
When you're dealing with single threaded intelligence, whether | 0:51:32 | 0:51:36 | |
it's counter intelligence, counter terrorism you have to be careful. | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
People lie, they cheat and they steal. | 0:51:39 | 0:51:41 | |
Isn't there a danger that you may want the intelligence to be | 0:51:41 | 0:51:47 | |
what you want it to be, as opposed to what it actually is? | 0:51:47 | 0:51:50 | |
There's always another pair of eyes focussed on that case, | 0:51:50 | 0:51:54 | |
questioning the product, making sure that we are as confident | 0:51:54 | 0:51:58 | |
as we can be, that it's not just what someone wants to hear. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
The spies' nightmare is the rogue source. | 0:52:05 | 0:52:08 | |
I went to a town in Germany to meet a man whose codename is Curveball. | 0:52:13 | 0:52:17 | |
His real name is Rafed Al Janabi. | 0:52:18 | 0:52:21 | |
He'd worked as a chemical engineer at a seed factory in Iraq. | 0:52:21 | 0:52:25 | |
In 1999, he arrived in Germany seeking political asylum. | 0:52:25 | 0:52:30 | |
TRANSLATION: I worked at the Djerf Al-Nadaf site | 0:52:30 | 0:52:33 | |
for a period of about seven to eight months, | 0:52:33 | 0:52:35 | |
in a project called Seed Purification | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
and I was the site manager for this project. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:41 | |
He was interviewed at length by Germany's MI6 - the BND. | 0:52:43 | 0:52:48 | |
He told them the seed plant was just a cover for manufacturing | 0:52:48 | 0:52:51 | |
Saddam Hussein's Weapons of Mass Destruction - WMD. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:54 | |
Whilst there, he said he'd overseen the building of a mobile | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
biological laboratory that could be driven around the country | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
to avoid detection. | 0:53:02 | 0:53:04 | |
TRANSLATION: I insisted this existed | 0:53:05 | 0:53:07 | |
and they asked me for diagrams. | 0:53:07 | 0:53:09 | |
I told them that I was part of the working team | 0:53:09 | 0:53:11 | |
but I didn't tell them I was an engineering expert. | 0:53:11 | 0:53:15 | |
Curveball's secret intelligence was eagerly embraced by Washington. | 0:53:17 | 0:53:23 | |
For the Bush administration, this was the smoking gun that would | 0:53:23 | 0:53:26 | |
make the case for war. | 0:53:26 | 0:53:28 | |
As Secretary of State Colin Powell made his landmark presentation | 0:53:31 | 0:53:34 | |
to the United Nations' Security Council, Curveball's | 0:53:34 | 0:53:37 | |
intelligence assumed centre stage. | 0:53:37 | 0:53:40 | |
Every statement I make today is backed up by sources, solid sources. | 0:53:42 | 0:53:46 | |
These are not assertions. What we are giving you are facts | 0:53:46 | 0:53:49 | |
and conclusions based on solid intelligence. | 0:53:49 | 0:53:53 | |
The source was an eyewitness, | 0:53:53 | 0:53:55 | |
an Iraqi chemical engineer who supervised one of these facilities. | 0:53:55 | 0:54:00 | |
He was actually present during biological agent production runs. | 0:54:00 | 0:54:04 | |
But there was just one problem. | 0:54:04 | 0:54:07 | |
Colin Powell said that, "He", | 0:54:07 | 0:54:09 | |
that's you the source, was present during the biological | 0:54:09 | 0:54:14 | |
production runs. Were you present then? | 0:54:14 | 0:54:16 | |
-No. No. -He was also at the site when an accident occurred in 1998. | 0:54:16 | 0:54:22 | |
12 technicians died from exposure to biological agents. | 0:54:22 | 0:54:26 | |
-Were you present on site? -No. -When the accident occurred? -No. | 0:54:26 | 0:54:30 | |
We have first hand descriptions of biological weapons factories | 0:54:31 | 0:54:36 | |
on wheels and on rails. | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
The trucks and train cars are easily moved, | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
and are designed to evade detection by inspectors. | 0:54:42 | 0:54:45 | |
You say you provided diagrams of the mobile biological trucks. | 0:54:45 | 0:54:52 | |
You were making that up? | 0:54:52 | 0:54:54 | |
-Yes. -And also, | 0:54:54 | 0:54:56 | |
you constructed a model of these trucks. Again, you made that up? | 0:54:56 | 0:55:02 | |
-Yes. -None of it was true? -No. -All of it was lies? -Yes. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
The Administration wasn't happy with the look | 0:55:09 | 0:55:13 | |
of Curveball's sketched diagrams. | 0:55:13 | 0:55:15 | |
Colin Powell's Chief of Staff was called on | 0:55:15 | 0:55:17 | |
to make them more presentable. | 0:55:17 | 0:55:19 | |
Blame me. Blame me. | 0:55:19 | 0:55:22 | |
I bought the White House team in to do the graphics. | 0:55:22 | 0:55:25 | |
It was his evidence that supported that contention by the Secretary | 0:55:26 | 0:55:31 | |
and by the US intelligence community that Iraq had mobile | 0:55:31 | 0:55:34 | |
biological weapons labs. | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
The problem was, is that the administration | 0:55:36 | 0:55:38 | |
believed what it wanted to believe, didn't it? | 0:55:38 | 0:55:41 | |
Absolutely. The intelligence was being worked | 0:55:41 | 0:55:43 | |
to fit around the policy. | 0:55:43 | 0:55:44 | |
We now know that MI6 and German intelligence warned the CIA | 0:55:51 | 0:55:54 | |
they didn't think Curveball was wholly reliable. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:58 | |
After the war, America desperately searched for the mobile labs, | 0:56:00 | 0:56:04 | |
but found not a trace. | 0:56:04 | 0:56:06 | |
It was only then that the CIA finally got to interview Curveball. | 0:56:07 | 0:56:12 | |
Soon after, they took the unusual step of issuing a burn notice, | 0:56:12 | 0:56:16 | |
retracting all his intelligence. | 0:56:16 | 0:56:19 | |
Did Secretary Powell feel that he had been let down over | 0:56:21 | 0:56:26 | |
Curveball or over the intelligence that Curveball provided? | 0:56:26 | 0:56:29 | |
I don't see any way on this earth that Secretary Powell doesn't | 0:56:29 | 0:56:33 | |
feel almost a rage about Curveball | 0:56:33 | 0:56:37 | |
and the way he was used, with regard to that intelligence. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:41 | |
One of the foundations of intelligence that | 0:56:41 | 0:56:43 | |
I think many of us analysts were reminded of | 0:56:43 | 0:56:46 | |
with the Iraqi WMD story, | 0:56:46 | 0:56:47 | |
is, how carefully do you distinguish between what you know, | 0:56:47 | 0:56:52 | |
what you don't know and what you think? | 0:56:52 | 0:56:55 | |
You can very quickly go down a hole of saying, we're pretty sure | 0:56:55 | 0:56:59 | |
of this, when actually, you're just speculating | 0:56:59 | 0:57:01 | |
and a lot of smart people do that all the time. | 0:57:01 | 0:57:05 | |
Curveball underpinned the Bush administration's case for war. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:09 | |
So why did he lie? | 0:57:09 | 0:57:11 | |
TRANSLATION: My main purpose was to topple the tyrant in Iraq | 0:57:11 | 0:57:16 | |
because the longer this dictator remains in power, the more | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
the Iraqi people will suffer from this regime's oppression. | 0:57:19 | 0:57:23 | |
For Britain and America, this was an intelligence failure | 0:57:26 | 0:57:28 | |
on a catastrophic scale. | 0:57:28 | 0:57:30 | |
The fact is, we went to war in Iraq on a lie! And that lie was your lie. | 0:57:32 | 0:57:40 | |
Yes. | 0:57:43 | 0:57:44 | |
-What's the lesson of Curveball? -The lesson of all intelligence, | 0:57:49 | 0:57:53 | |
especially at a strategic level, if your going to make fateful | 0:57:53 | 0:57:56 | |
decisions as a president, you're gonna make decisions to send young | 0:57:56 | 0:57:59 | |
men and young women to die for state purposes and to kill other | 0:57:59 | 0:58:02 | |
people for those purposes, you better be damn sure it's correct. | 0:58:02 | 0:58:06 | |
When intelligence services get it wrong, | 0:58:07 | 0:58:09 | |
the results can be disastrous. | 0:58:09 | 0:58:13 | |
But when they get it right, countless lives may be saved. | 0:58:13 | 0:58:16 | |
In recent years, British jihadis have plotted to blow up | 0:58:16 | 0:58:20 | |
night clubs and shopping centres and bring down aircraft. | 0:58:20 | 0:58:24 | |
Those plots and more have been foiled by Britain's modern spies. | 0:58:24 | 0:58:28 | |
But with the stakes so incredibly high, | 0:58:28 | 0:58:31 | |
there may sometimes be temptation to go too far. | 0:58:31 | 0:58:35 | |
Next time, we investigate allegations of British | 0:58:36 | 0:58:39 | |
complicity in rendition and torture, | 0:58:39 | 0:58:42 | |
and whether modern spies ever have a licence to kill. | 0:58:42 | 0:58:45 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:59 | 0:59:03 |