5Live's #mumtakeover

biggest conversation about mums

and mental health at

this special event -

recorded in front of an live

audience - at Blackpool Tower.

audience - at Blackpool Tower.

Hello, everybody. We're here at the

beautiful Blackpool Tower in this

gorgeous circus to kick-start the

UK's biggest conversation about mums

and mental health. Everything from

postnatal depression, anxiety,

loneliness, worklife balance, the

whole lot.

Anything that you felt doctor about.

We're going to be live. We got 40

plus. But no, that's not impressive.

We got 400 plus mums in the audience

and some doubts, too. Shout out to

the doubts.

APPLAUSE

. There they are. We will be

discussing the facts, hearing

personal stories and looking for

solutions to the mental health

challenges affecting so many mums

and dads in the UK. We've got our

gorgeous panel of experts and not to

forget of course our mums who have

joined us today. Lots of you from

Blackpool. And you can follow the

conversation Facebook, Twitter and

instant RAM. #mumtakeover. And don't

forget today is all about starting

this conversation. Is going to

continue for a long time online.

It's just a chance to share

experiences, share your thoughts,

your stories and sometimes it's just

about hearing somebody say, you know

what, I recognise that and I have

been through it as well. Other

celebrity mums will head off into

the audience and get themselves

ready and it's a good time to meet

our panel. Hi. I'm Annie and I'm the

editor and chief of net mums. We are

replace where 8 million mums come

and talk every month.

And where they can offer

peer-to-peer support, there's

valuable support to get you through

those tricky days.

I am a perinatal psychiatrist

consultant on the NHS and I'm also

chair of the mental health Alliance

which represents 85 patients and

professional organisations all

committed to improving the mental

health of mums and the outcomes for

them and their babies. And also a

presenter on the BBC Two series,

Trust Me I'm A Doctor. See it in

January.

I'm Claire Law. I work for better

start right here in Blackpool. My

role is to design new services from

mums and dads with babies and young

children as part of the better start

your initiative. It is a national

lottery funded initiative and it is

all about improving outcomes.

Hi everyone. I'm a radio presenter

and a DJ. I had my first child last

year. I struggled with my mental

health in the month that followed

her birth and I feel like, because I

got through it all, I have so many

tips and hopefully some really

useful advice for you mums today.

I'm so excited to be here. Thank

you. Let's get this discussion

started because we've got so many

mums and semi-fantastic stories the

sharing the audience.

We'll begin with Eve. Even, hello.

Hi.

I was reading one of your posts

online the other day, which was so

much good information that I wished,

to be honest, someone had given me

on the way home from the hospital.

Tell us about your experience to

start off with.

I'm coming at us

from having never had a mental

illness and when I had my son seven

and half years ago I developed

postpartum psychosis and postnatal

anxiety disorder. I didn't have the

Russians love the people talked

about. I have something very

different and dramatic. I had a real

fear of him and I thought it was

evil, I thought he had been sent to

destroy me. I had hallucinations

that I was floating in the air, that

been buried alive. And I had never

heard that having a baby could cause

this.

That was as complete surprise.

Because it seemed so extreme, the

symptoms that you have. But they

started to happen to me within a few

hours of having my son when he was

six years old I was hospitalised in

a psychiatric unit to start my

recovery. And it took me around a

year and a half to recover from the

symptoms I was experiencing because

of the soap traumatising. I wrote

the blog that I did the other day,

because myself and my family had

absolutely no idea where to go

awkward to talk to you.

Can you remember who you first went

to?

Sometimes it is making that first

leap, isn't it? One person to tell.

I remember five days after I had my

son I went to the GP and said, had a

very real fear of him and I didn't

why. I didn't want to be near him.

She told me that I needed some more

sleep. And I saw another GP, and

I've written about this, and she

took me to make a cake, gets you

make up for myself and maybe start

feeling a bit better for myself.

Where they well-meaning? It was just

that they didn't understand. They

were well-meaning but I think they

hadn't ever seen anything like me

and they were giving me the life

they would maybe give to other

people for when they come into them

something very mild. I genuinely

think now, working how I do in this

mental health, that they had never

seen anything like me.

Really? And how do you. But once

you've identified what the problem

is a modular living through that,

how do then start to things?

What do they do to try make that

better? The me going into the mother

and baby unit was the single best

thing I ever did. It saved my life.

The day I wouldn't it was the day I

decided I wanted to die.

I was heavily medicated. You say

that so...

Casually is not the right word, that

such a huge thing for anybody.

Jinnah was this? I've come to terms

of maleness in the symptoms that

happened to me and my friends always

say, motherhood has been the making

of me but not in the way border was

going to be. In a new side to

myself, a massive stock strength and

I have reached those steps. I

thought us and want to be here. To

see my recovery and how accepting

help from proper health care

professionals with medication, that

it is all right to go into an in

unit if need be and accepting that

you need time and lots of support.

I've accepted that.

I've accepted the depth went to and

accepted that I'm very much

recovered.

Who have you got? I am here with

Fiona. You're the founder of Young

mum support network.

You are an

incredible woman. Tell me your

experiences of becoming a mum. So I

became am 13 years ago. And sadly

for me the person I became pregnant

for told me I should terminate my

pregnancy and if I didn't he would

have nothing to do with her. So to

date he has never seen her and he's

never been in her life. So, that,

for me, was a big shock. First-time

pregnancy and being faced with

rejection was really soul destroying

the very embarrassing as well.

You felt a strange for being a

single parent. I did. I felt

ashamed. I felt the club is the only

person had this experience and I

didn't feel that I was allowed to

enjoy pregnancy, if that makes

sense. Going for the appointment and

suchlike that was very kind of... It

wasn't fun.

When you are dealing with a mum in

that situation, what would you say?

People must feel that same pressure.

What do you say to try and reassure

them.

I think it's really important.

What I'm hearing so far today is

that there is this huge thing around

and actually people feel that it is

their own responsibility to seek

help and access online chats. And

there is that, of course, but I

think it's really important that

professionals and people working

with young mums all doubts that

working children centres that work

out in the community, that we really

up skill workers and community

members to actually reach out to

people, to routinely ask about how

they're feeling, are they OK, have

they had experiences of trauma or

difficulties within their lives,

just to make more normal to be asked

that were not always putting the

onus onto people defined to help

themselves.

Not just mums today. Dad as well.

Let's talk about that because I

think they get overlooked. Mark is

the founder of others reaching out

to campaign to raise awareness about

postnatal depression in families.

Can you tell us a little bit more

about you and what you do and what

you've gone through.

I was an age dated about mental

health. I was 30 years old. I

remember going into the labour ward

in these doctors came rushing in and

said Europe wife has had an

emergency C section. Had a panic

attack. I've never had one before.

But my wife was going to die. She

went on to have severe postnatal

depression. Wales have not got a

mother and baby unit. Add to give up

my job, after her and the baby. I

had a new mortgage, credit cards,

eventually I started to get

depression as well myself. Suicide

thoughts around for five month mark.

I suffered in silence for six years.

My wife got well and it wasn't until

later had a full on breakdown. I

suffered from the feeling of just

man up, coming from a community of

kick boxing. It took a breakdown. My

physical health was great but by

mental health deteriorated to the

point than for I had a full

breakdown.

And the panel, do feel we just

overlooked ads? That we forget them?

It was interesting hearing you talk

about your wife's emergency C

section because I had won my husband

said afterwards that in that

situation he felt very left out.

Like he was a spare part, like he

was in the way. And afterwards, you

are trying so hard to help your wife

that you felt that you may be to the

back-seat, I bet.

I never told my wife how I was

feeling because it did not want to

impact on her mental health. I

suffered for years and I didn't know

that the nightmares and flashbacks

and begin my wife died, waking up in

the middle of the night, what I knew

now is PTS. I went to Spain to men,

the quicker you get the help the

quicker the recovery is.

Where are you, Carla? I will climb

stairs to find you. It's great to

see you. Tell us about your

situation. Because you started

feeling that isolation, didn't you?

After having your kids.

Yes. My son was born seven weeks

early. I had something called

placenta praevia so I have bleeds

every week in the lead up to my

wedding and my sons birth. The week

before the wedding my dad has a

massive heart attack and couldn't

walk me down the aisle and then my

son came seven weeks early. So I had

postnatal depression, quite badly,

and anxiety. And initially, at the

time, I don't think you actually

realise you have got it. The voters

can thinking, though, is this what

being a mum is like? Didn't enjoy it

but I daren't say I didn't enjoy it

I just pretended that everything was

great.

I remember when the midwife would

say, are you OK? I would say yes.

Why did you say yes? To be honest,

what you spoke about, really. I was

terrified I might get my son taken

away from me. I'm normally quite a

social and happy person so I felt

like I had to keep that persona up

and then behind closed doors I was

just a mess, really. I didn't sleep

much at night. I was just worried

all the time about death, to be

honest. For some reason I panic

about death anyway. The fact that my

son came so close to death, really

worried me.

Who of you got with you next? I only

Kerry and we've been having a chat

about how everyone talking Panda

sparks more thoughts for us. And

Kerry has one child but she's also

stepmum to lots and lots of

children. But she is also blind so

that feeling of excluded are not

being included is very different for

you.

What you like to ask the panel

today? What are you doing to support

people out there with disabilities?

What are you doing? People make a

lot of assumptions. You know, what

resources are there?

Why don't you take this one, Alan? A

lot of what you do is push people in

the right direction.

Specifically with regards

disabilities we mustn't forget that

mental health problems can also be a

cause of disability. Traditionally

bethink about physical health

problems causing disability but

people with mental health problems

quite often can't even get out of

bed, can't get dressed, can get out

of the house, so I think it is

important that we look at disability

across its breadth. The big key

point is that people disabilities

have very individual needs, whatever

disability it is. So it's really

important to surround ourselves as

best we can with a network of people

to help and support as, just friends

and family. And then to seek

professional help. Without any sense

of shame, and it is easily said, but

difficult to do, but maybe our

friends and family can support us to

seek the help that we need.

Who have you got with you?

Hurley. And you blog about being a

parent.

You got a strong message that you

wanted to talk about today.

It is difficult for Asian monster

come out about being mentally

depressed and everything like that

so I just wanted to know what could

be done by you guys or anyone in

higher organisations to make it seem

more comfortable for months to come

out about their mental health? Asian

mums, definitely.

You were nodding at me.

I am an Asian mum. I think that

culturally there was a lot of

pressure when you even just get

married in our culture. There is a

lot of pressure before you get

married to get married when he did

get married to children. The

business microscope that the family

put over year. In our culture there

is so much pressure and there is

stigma. The considerate about being

depressed. It is not the done thing.

UNC a lot of Asians on TV on Jeremy

Kyle and shows like that talking

about their problems. We just don't

do it. It is just not done. But I

think the best thing that you can do

is what you are doing. Setting up

these and telling all of the mums

out there that is OK. It is a

generational issue. I think it is

because our parents are old school

in their thinking. It is amazing

having support. Albeit overbearing

support, it is still support. I

could not have got over my struggles

with postnatal depression if it was

not from my mother's support,

allowing me to get sleep. Taking the

baby so I could have a bath. Those

things are so important. If it is

overbearing it can be hard to deal.

You just have to make the decisions

as a parent and stick to them.

We are speaking about a lot of our

guest today have found it helpful to

channel something, whether it is

talking about is, whether it is

helping other people, like you were

just saying.

Education has been a channel for

you, hasn't it? Yes, definitely. I

was 18 years old when I had my baby.

It was about, you know, it was

really difficult. I lost all my

friends. I have lost, you know, all

of that sense of...

Your life is very different.

You're instantly separated if your

friends are going through the same

thing as you. . I think what really

did help me was going back to

school. When I was in year 12, I

have my baby then I went back to

year 13 and went into university. I

used to, so the part-time mum. You

know, part-time mum, part-time

student. Being around people my age,

doing things that matter to me and

feeling like I was working on my own

future. That was really helpful

because, yes, hearing someone

actually speaking openly about

feeling suicidal, it happens to a

lot of mums and you feel guilty for

then feeling that way. You feel

selfish, you feel angry with

yourself and I think actually,

getting out there and doing things

for you.

I think the mum go to something that

for all of us here that will always

be there, right? It is a big thing.

Thank you for coming today. Thank

you. The final topical talk about

his worklife balance. And of all the

times you feel guilty probably that

moment, maybe it is the first time

you go off to work after having a

baby. You go back after maternity

leave or it is when you're a late

home one day and you missed dinner,

you must bedtime. Those bits of

guilt are really difficult to deal

with.

Mum Gill seems to be a running

theme. Definitely. I've got a really

poorly husband and I beat myself up

every day, thinking that maybe, you

know, I could be a better mum, but I

don't think I can be a better mum so

it's quite emotional, sorry.

It's totally fine. The beat yourself

up for what reason? Just basically

being a mum and dad.

You got a lot on and you have to

take a minute for you. And it's OK

to down about it and it is OK to

feel that. I think generally, if we

didn't feel mum guilt we essentially

wouldn't be a mum, right? That's

your job. It's your job to look at

and you want the best for them 20 47

so if you feel that you're not

giving everything you going to feel

mum guilt. But that's because you're

spending yourself in the and you've

got a lot done.

Yes, I mean, everybody says to me

you're doing an amazing job, I do

know how you do it. And it's back, I

stand back and I think, how am I

doing this? Is kind of like

autopilot. You just do it. You focus

on your work, what you got to do

after work, how many hospital

appointment you got to go to. The

tests, the test that are coming up,

the results to wait for and is just

like every day is a battle.

It is dad as well. I feel it my role

today is to bring the dads in. Bring

them in, bring them in. I had Sam

and Kevin with me.

How have you been finding today and

has anything resonated with you? I

found there have been so many

inspirational points made in so many

amazing stories. A couple of times

I've gone to break into applause but

there are sleeping babies around

this area so would not have been a

good idea. It's been quick to listen

to all those stories. As a dad

myself, I'm a stand-up comedian as

well so I've always been very

comfortable talking about my own

insecurities are my own feelings

because that's where comedy lives.

You don't get laughs from talking

about how you had a great day. We've

all got one ventures like that and

they've got no good stories

whatsoever. But when I started

blogging about being a dad is mainly

women and mainly mums who read my

blog. They were often coming in

saying I'm glad someone has been

honest about this but that was never

something I set out to do. It was

just a case of, I didn't know what I

was denied and it was nice to hear

that there was a conversation

starting between people who were all

so feeling comfortable admitting

that they were struggling.

I'm really impressed that the

Government coming here talking about

this as well. I was a teenage

parenthood 17. When I found out I

was a father I was very isolated. It

literally hang around with a good

crowd. I remember being in my

business class in college not

talking to anyone in the classroom

because I felt that I was different

from everyone. And I think it's

important for us to talk about this,

you know.

We are heading to the end which is

why wanted to speak to Danielle.

You've got a really good question to

ask which kind of sums up everything

that we talk about. It is almost

impossible, really, to work out and

path through life, isn't it? And

your question is about it all,

really.

Just tell me about your story.

My

name is Danielle. I am a mum to an

18-year-old son and my second son

was sadly stillborn. I work as a

public affairs manager and before my

first son I wasn't one ounce

maternal at all and don't really

think about having babies around the

thing. When I went back to work I

found it incredibly difficult to try

and give 100% to work, which is what

I had always done. 100% to my son

who was my whole world. And I just

wondered if anyone here had the

secret to the elusive having it all.

I find it completely impossible,

having half of it, to be honest. So

if anyone can share anything with me

that would be wonderful.

I'm a perfectionist personality is

always give 150% of everything

thinking that everything have to be

perfect. And I've had come to

accept, and actually I am a big

believer now, the 70% rule. Don't

tell my boss this. But that 70% is

enough. Do you know what I mean?

Nothing has to be perfect. No one is

perfect. There are only 24 hours in

the day and have those you should be

asleep so you can only do what you

can do.

Let's just get some final thoughts

from our mums and from our panel.

Because I think two hours have flown

by about one thing that has been

really obvious throughout is the

themes. The fact that even though we

are all separate people, different

lives, we all have the same fears.

I think we can do is look at other

people think they have got it all.

And we don't look at, we don't see

what's going on behind closed

holding of two hours flying by. We

can all talk about being among

endlessly. You know, you never run

out of topics. You never run dry.

And I decided fascinating talking to

people because, you know, people

from all walks of life we have the

same problems, Saint issues. The

more that we share the more that we

can create more the community.

I think there is a bit of grass is

greener thing. Like, I feel guilt

for being a working mum and I know

that Stacey and with all spoken

about. But I love the fact that you

touched on earlier that you feel

like you should be working mum. So I

think either way you going to feel

some sort of guilt. I feel really

happy that we've confirmed that were

all going to feel that.

Do you know what, it is just so

inspiring to be in a of people, men

and women, who are all on the same

common ground to have all come

together to support one another

because we all know that we are

facing quite an impossible task.

Nobody is perfect but we're doing a

good job every single one of us and

as long as we stick together and

we're there for each other when we

need it everything is going to be

OK. No matter what, as long as you

unconditionally love and support

your children you are doing the

right thing and you're doing a great

job.

And if you take away the judgment as

well.

If people stop judging each other.

It is something within you, you're

trying to come to terms on something

that you're doing. Forget about it.

You're doing what you're doing.

Don't compare, don't judge.

We are amazing. Thank you,

everybody. Thank you to our

incredible panel and guests.

And to you.

Every single person in this room.

All of our incredible mums, everyone

online. Thank you so much,

everybody.

APPLAUSE