Browse content similar to Part 3. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
-And how are you? -I am fine. | 0:00:02 | 0:00:04 | |
That's very good. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:05 | |
This programme contains scenes which some viewers may find upsetting. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:12 | |
Paolo Macchiarini had created headlines | 0:00:12 | 0:00:15 | |
all over the world | 0:00:15 | 0:00:16 | |
when he implanted the first plastic trachea into a human being. | 0:00:16 | 0:00:20 | |
-REPORTERS: -What seems like the plot from a science-fiction novel... | 0:00:20 | 0:00:23 | |
We're just a few years away from this happening - | 0:00:23 | 0:00:26 | |
all new organs being built in a lab. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:27 | |
Karolinska's star surgeon seemed to be about to solve | 0:00:27 | 0:00:31 | |
one of the great challenges of the medical world. | 0:00:31 | 0:00:33 | |
-REPORTER: -Ground-breaking surgery gave a man back his trachea... | 0:00:33 | 0:00:36 | |
But something was wrong. | 0:00:36 | 0:00:38 | |
It is not collapsing. | 0:00:38 | 0:00:40 | |
The plastic tracheas were not working as they should. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
When patient after patient died, | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
doctors began to wonder what was going on. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
By 2015, | 0:01:08 | 0:01:10 | |
Macchiarini's operations were under investigation by the police. | 0:01:10 | 0:01:14 | |
The management at the world-famous Karolinska in Stockholm, Sweden | 0:01:15 | 0:01:19 | |
had already been alerted to evidence that their star employee, | 0:01:19 | 0:01:24 | |
Macchiarini, had been falsifying scientific reports | 0:01:24 | 0:01:28 | |
and risking patients' lives. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:29 | |
I had come to realise that this story is about so much more | 0:01:36 | 0:01:40 | |
than just Paolo Macchiarini. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:42 | |
How valued is a human life at the cutting edge of research? | 0:01:43 | 0:01:47 | |
Does a human life have a price? | 0:02:11 | 0:02:12 | |
I didn't do anything wrong. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:17 | |
I just did my job. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:33 | |
I had been following Paolo for almost a year | 0:03:09 | 0:03:13 | |
and, still, so many questions remained unanswered. | 0:03:13 | 0:03:15 | |
It seemed Paolo had been performing deadly experiments on human beings. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:26 | |
But would he really have intentionally endangered | 0:03:28 | 0:03:31 | |
his patients' lives? | 0:03:31 | 0:03:32 | |
During my year of filming, I followed him all over the world. | 0:03:36 | 0:03:40 | |
On one of his journeys, | 0:03:42 | 0:03:44 | |
he met an old friend and fellow surgeon. | 0:03:44 | 0:03:46 | |
I was contemplating the criticism against Paolo... | 0:03:51 | 0:03:54 | |
..that the risks he'd taken had been too big... | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
..that he hadn't been sufficiently prepared... | 0:03:59 | 0:04:01 | |
See? Just on time. | 0:04:01 | 0:04:03 | |
..and that he hadn't told the truth afterwards. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
Paolo remained quiet. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:08 | |
But his colleague, Gebitekin, | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
gave his thoughts on what made a good surgeon. | 0:04:12 | 0:04:15 | |
A good surgeon makes careful preparations in advance... | 0:05:10 | 0:05:13 | |
..leaving as few unforeseen problems as possible. | 0:05:14 | 0:05:17 | |
But was this the case with Paolo's plastic trachea patients? | 0:05:20 | 0:05:24 | |
Most of them were dead. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:27 | |
It was at the Karolinska Institute | 0:05:34 | 0:05:36 | |
where Paolo's plastic trachea method had been created. | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
Grinnemo and Corbascio had been collaborating | 0:06:03 | 0:06:07 | |
with Macchiarini's team for years. | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
Both had made contributions to Macchiarini's scientific studies. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:14 | |
But after a while, a conflict arose, | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
concerning applications and grants... | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
..and the collaboration ended. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:26 | |
During 2013, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
more and more people at the hospital realised that Paolo's patients | 0:06:30 | 0:06:34 | |
weren't in a good condition. | 0:06:34 | 0:06:35 | |
Grinnemo and three of his colleagues became convinced | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
that there were serious issues with the plastic trachea. | 0:06:43 | 0:06:46 | |
But Paolo portrayed his method as successful. | 0:06:59 | 0:07:01 | |
There was a risk that it would still be attempted in other countries. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:07 | |
Paolo was reported for alleged | 0:07:15 | 0:07:18 | |
scientific falsification. His entire credibility was at stake. | 0:07:18 | 0:07:22 | |
He could end up in prison. | 0:07:23 | 0:07:25 | |
I was attacked brutally and, er... | 0:07:25 | 0:07:28 | |
vehemently, | 0:07:28 | 0:07:30 | |
with unfounded... | 0:07:30 | 0:07:31 | |
..allegations, that they involved them myself, so... | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
..we need to clear the name of everybody. | 0:07:39 | 0:07:41 | |
And that's why I'm fighting for it. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:44 | |
The hospital seemed to be taking Paolo's side. | 0:07:44 | 0:07:47 | |
A police report was filed and one of the doctors was questioned. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:51 | |
He and his three colleagues who had made the complaint were threatened | 0:07:53 | 0:07:57 | |
with an official warning from the hospital. | 0:07:57 | 0:07:59 | |
The Karolinska Institute responded with silence but, eventually, | 0:08:02 | 0:08:07 | |
they appointed an independent investigator. | 0:08:07 | 0:08:09 | |
Bengt Gerdin was commissioned to assess Paolo's scientific papers. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:19 | |
Bengt Gerdin compared Macchiarini's scientific papers | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
with Karolinska's patient records. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
By May 2015, Gerdin's work was complete. | 0:08:41 | 0:08:44 | |
Gerdin concluded that Macchiarini | 0:09:02 | 0:09:05 | |
was guilty of scientific falsification. | 0:09:05 | 0:09:08 | |
The news made global headlines. | 0:09:09 | 0:09:11 | |
If Paolo was found guilty, | 0:09:27 | 0:09:29 | |
his research papers would probably be retracted. | 0:09:29 | 0:09:32 | |
It could spell the end of his research work round the world. | 0:09:32 | 0:09:36 | |
I have been depicted on the one angle, | 0:09:38 | 0:09:40 | |
which is the angle of the media, | 0:09:40 | 0:09:42 | |
as you said, as a criminal, | 0:09:42 | 0:09:44 | |
as one that doesn't care about anything and so forth, | 0:09:44 | 0:09:47 | |
which is totally untrue - | 0:09:47 | 0:09:48 | |
not according to me, but according to the facts - | 0:09:48 | 0:09:51 | |
and people have this perception. | 0:09:51 | 0:09:54 | |
But it hadn't been settled yet. | 0:10:02 | 0:10:03 | |
The Karolinska Institute still hadn't taken an official decision | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
as to whether or not they would act on Gerdin's recommendations. | 0:10:09 | 0:10:12 | |
Paolo's only chance was to prove to the Vice Chancellor | 0:10:14 | 0:10:17 | |
that he hadn't falsified his results. | 0:10:17 | 0:10:19 | |
I don't have that much time, so we need to hurry up. | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
In the last year, I have been attacked so many times. | 0:10:33 | 0:10:36 | |
My conversations with patients have been recorded, | 0:10:36 | 0:10:39 | |
my finances have been investigated, | 0:10:39 | 0:10:42 | |
My animal logbooks have been scrutinised | 0:10:42 | 0:10:47 | |
and my research data re-evaluated. | 0:10:47 | 0:10:51 | |
It's difficult. It's difficult to be attacked and be on the front pages. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:56 | |
At least we would have done something wrong, | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
then I would understand it, | 0:11:00 | 0:11:02 | |
but I believe we didn't, so let's wait tomorrow. | 0:11:02 | 0:11:07 | |
August, 2015. | 0:11:14 | 0:11:15 | |
The day for the decision had arrived. | 0:11:16 | 0:11:18 | |
A lot was at stake. | 0:11:19 | 0:11:21 | |
Karolinska Hospital had approved his method of surgery... | 0:11:23 | 0:11:27 | |
..and the Karolinska Institute had vouched scientifically | 0:11:28 | 0:11:31 | |
for his research. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:32 | |
If Paolo fell, | 0:11:33 | 0:11:35 | |
the whole of Karolinska was at risk of falling with him. | 0:11:35 | 0:11:38 | |
I couldn't quite believe what I heard. | 0:12:18 | 0:12:20 | |
The Vice Chancellor had cleared Paolo of almost all the accusations. | 0:12:20 | 0:12:25 | |
The Vice Chancellor stated that this decision was based on new evidence | 0:12:42 | 0:12:47 | |
submitted by Paolo and his collaborators. | 0:12:47 | 0:12:50 | |
But these additions had only been assessed internally, | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
by Karolinska's management. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:56 | |
The independent investigator, Bengt Gerdin, | 0:12:56 | 0:13:00 | |
had not been asked to examine them. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:02 | |
As I read through the new documents, | 0:13:04 | 0:13:06 | |
I found no real explanation to the Vice Chancellor's decision. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:11 | |
I had now followed Paolo over an extended period | 0:13:13 | 0:13:16 | |
and I had seen far too much. | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
Out of all of Paolo's plastic trachea patients, | 0:13:19 | 0:13:23 | |
only two were still alive. | 0:13:23 | 0:13:24 | |
Dmitri Onogda's plastic trachea never functioned... | 0:13:26 | 0:13:29 | |
..but it was removed and he survived. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:32 | |
Yasim Cetir had been close to dying many times. | 0:13:34 | 0:13:37 | |
In order to survive, she now needed constant intensive care. | 0:13:38 | 0:13:43 | |
The other patients had died. | 0:13:44 | 0:13:46 | |
Andemariam Beyene. | 0:13:47 | 0:13:49 | |
Christopher Lyles. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
Alexandra Zozulya. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:53 | |
Sadiq Kanaan. | 0:13:54 | 0:13:56 | |
Hannah Warren. | 0:13:56 | 0:13:57 | |
And Julia Tuulik. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:00 | |
It was as if nothing had been learnt from their deaths | 0:14:02 | 0:14:06 | |
and Paolo was allowed to carry on his work. | 0:14:06 | 0:14:09 | |
I very much enjoy the fact that now... | 0:14:09 | 0:14:12 | |
..we are, again, back to science and clinic... | 0:14:14 | 0:14:19 | |
..and not | 0:14:20 | 0:14:22 | |
lawyer stuff and so forth. | 0:14:22 | 0:14:25 | |
So, that's a good thing. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:27 | |
Interesting. How fast do you think you can be moving, for example, | 0:14:29 | 0:14:32 | |
with the trachea now? What's your time? | 0:14:32 | 0:14:35 | |
Well, the timeline is that... | 0:14:35 | 0:14:37 | |
..we would like to wait the six months... | 0:14:38 | 0:14:41 | |
..follow-up time, which would end probably in March, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:47 | |
if everything goes well. And then, immediately start with the... | 0:14:47 | 0:14:51 | |
..non-human primates. | 0:14:52 | 0:14:53 | |
Probably by the end of next year... | 0:14:53 | 0:14:55 | |
..it would be reasonable to think to restart the feasibility | 0:14:57 | 0:15:01 | |
and then the clinical trial. | 0:15:01 | 0:15:03 | |
Only a few weeks had passed since the acquittal... | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
..and Paolo was already planning new operations on humans. | 0:15:08 | 0:15:11 | |
When I began to film Paolo nearly a year earlier, | 0:15:13 | 0:15:16 | |
he had made a demand... | 0:15:16 | 0:15:18 | |
..that I wouldn't ask about the accusations | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
until Karolinska had made a decision. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:25 | |
Interesting. Something you can talk about? | 0:15:25 | 0:15:28 | |
No, because the deal was that we would not talk about this. | 0:15:28 | 0:15:31 | |
You remember that? | 0:15:31 | 0:15:33 | |
The day had finally come. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:36 | |
I had gone over everything I knew about Paolo and his operations. | 0:15:38 | 0:15:41 | |
How are you? | 0:15:42 | 0:15:44 | |
I am...fine. | 0:15:44 | 0:15:46 | |
That's good. | 0:15:46 | 0:15:47 | |
I knew that this was likely to be the last interview | 0:15:49 | 0:15:52 | |
I would ever get with Paolo. | 0:15:52 | 0:15:54 | |
I needed answers. | 0:15:55 | 0:15:57 | |
Had Paolo intentionally risked the lives of his patients? | 0:15:58 | 0:16:02 | |
A few months earlier, | 0:16:07 | 0:16:09 | |
I had met a doctor who had prepared Paolo's tracheas, | 0:16:09 | 0:16:12 | |
ahead of the operations. | 0:16:12 | 0:16:13 | |
Philipp Jungebluth had had Paolo as his mentor during medical school... | 0:16:17 | 0:16:21 | |
..and he was now Paolo's closest colleague. | 0:16:22 | 0:16:25 | |
Philipp Jungebluth is... almost a son of mine. | 0:16:27 | 0:16:31 | |
Probably he is, right now, the most hard-working man that I have, | 0:16:31 | 0:16:36 | |
so thank you, Philipp. | 0:16:36 | 0:16:38 | |
Philipp explained how they'd been thinking at the start. | 0:16:38 | 0:16:42 | |
But it took some time before I really understood | 0:16:43 | 0:16:46 | |
what he was saying. | 0:16:46 | 0:16:48 | |
I mean, of course, this system cannot be perfect | 0:16:48 | 0:16:52 | |
at the early years, in the early moment of this new technology, | 0:16:52 | 0:16:56 | |
and you can just learn it in the clinic. | 0:16:56 | 0:17:02 | |
Some parts of it, at least. | 0:17:02 | 0:17:03 | |
It seemed as though they had decided, early on, | 0:17:04 | 0:17:07 | |
to develop the method, in part, on the operating table, | 0:17:07 | 0:17:11 | |
instead of thoroughly testing it, | 0:17:11 | 0:17:14 | |
as one normally would with new and dangerous methods of treatment. | 0:17:14 | 0:17:17 | |
The first plastic trachea was a big step into the unknown. | 0:17:19 | 0:17:24 | |
We did not test it prior to transplantation, | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
prior the first transplantation, because there was no time. | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
We had this patient, we had this scenario, this acute scenario, | 0:17:33 | 0:17:37 | |
where we know that, OK, we cannot wait half a year. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:40 | |
So, the plastic trachea hadn't been implanted in animals | 0:17:41 | 0:17:44 | |
before testing it on the first human being. | 0:17:44 | 0:17:47 | |
Therefore, it was a gamble when they put a plastic trachea | 0:17:49 | 0:17:53 | |
into Andemariam Beyene. | 0:17:53 | 0:17:54 | |
And they would continue to gamble. | 0:17:55 | 0:17:58 | |
At least three, probably four, more patients | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
would receive plastic tracheas | 0:18:01 | 0:18:02 | |
before they had been tested on a single rat. | 0:18:02 | 0:18:06 | |
There were a couple of tests of plastic tracheas on rats, | 0:18:07 | 0:18:11 | |
here at the KI, that were started sometime... | 0:18:11 | 0:18:15 | |
August 2012 or something like that. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:18 | |
Is that the animal work on synthetic tracheas that you've been doing? | 0:18:18 | 0:18:22 | |
We did animal studies pre-clinically in rats, with bio-deficent scaffold. | 0:18:22 | 0:18:26 | |
They are not published yet and we started before. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:31 | |
So, you have unpublished studies before that? | 0:18:33 | 0:18:35 | |
Yeah. | 0:18:35 | 0:18:36 | |
And that was at KI or..? | 0:18:38 | 0:18:39 | |
It was at KI, yeah. | 0:18:40 | 0:18:41 | |
'But I couldn't find any such animal tests,' | 0:18:43 | 0:18:47 | |
nor could I find any approvals. | 0:18:47 | 0:18:49 | |
Because if you just look at what is published | 0:18:52 | 0:18:54 | |
-and what has been approved of, for experimentation... -Mm-hm. | 0:18:54 | 0:18:58 | |
..it's only those two rat... | 0:18:58 | 0:19:00 | |
-..rat experiments. -OK, so what? | 0:19:02 | 0:19:05 | |
-What do you want to say? -Because, before the rats, | 0:19:05 | 0:19:07 | |
you put the synthetic scaffold into five patients. | 0:19:07 | 0:19:12 | |
To me, that seems extraordinary. | 0:19:16 | 0:19:18 | |
Before the rats, I put... | 0:19:18 | 0:19:19 | |
That's a wrong statement. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:24 | |
But if I just look at the chronology, | 0:19:27 | 0:19:29 | |
I see five surgeries, | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
no rats, | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
-no pigs, no animal experiments. And, then, animal experiments. -Uh-huh. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:38 | |
I mean, should I not ask that? | 0:19:38 | 0:19:40 | |
Are you sure about this? Are you sure about this? | 0:19:40 | 0:19:42 | |
Why you don't go to the lab and you look at data in a lab book? | 0:19:42 | 0:19:45 | |
Here or in Russia? | 0:19:47 | 0:19:48 | |
How do you know that we didn't do animal studies in Russia? | 0:19:48 | 0:19:51 | |
When I confronted Paolo, he simply changed his story. | 0:19:53 | 0:19:56 | |
He had no longer carried out these unknown animal studies in Sweden, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:02 | |
but somewhere in Russia. | 0:20:02 | 0:20:03 | |
But, despite not having tested the trachea on animals | 0:20:06 | 0:20:09 | |
before implanting it in the first humans, | 0:20:09 | 0:20:12 | |
the management at the Karolinska Institute still claimed this | 0:20:12 | 0:20:15 | |
to be the case. | 0:20:15 | 0:20:17 | |
In a document from autumn 2013, | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
they wrote that all surgeries were preceded by all the necessary lab | 0:20:21 | 0:20:25 | |
and animal tests. | 0:20:25 | 0:20:27 | |
'Johan Bratt doesn't want to explain how they had | 0:21:05 | 0:21:07 | |
'skipped over the animal tests.' | 0:21:07 | 0:21:11 | |
'And to Paolo, the question only seemed to provoke annoyance.' | 0:21:11 | 0:21:15 | |
I've been scouring the published field for synthetic rat tracheas... | 0:21:15 | 0:21:20 | |
We didn't do any animal study that involves large animal, | 0:21:20 | 0:21:23 | |
of course not. We didn't have the time. | 0:21:23 | 0:21:27 | |
But the material was proven, the material was studied. | 0:21:27 | 0:21:30 | |
We used fibres that were approved by the FDA. | 0:21:30 | 0:21:33 | |
And now, all the studies are coming. | 0:21:34 | 0:21:37 | |
If you have a clinical situation where you are... | 0:21:43 | 0:21:47 | |
..forced to take a risk, then you take it, | 0:21:49 | 0:21:51 | |
if you see any chance to help the patient. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:54 | |
Paolo's point seemed to be that he had been forced to take shortcuts, | 0:21:56 | 0:22:00 | |
as his patients had been so seriously ill. | 0:22:00 | 0:22:03 | |
His employers agreed with him. | 0:22:03 | 0:22:05 | |
The hospital and the Institute claimed the same thing... | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
..that Macchiarini's plastic tracheas | 0:22:39 | 0:22:41 | |
saved the lives of those who were acutely ill and dying. | 0:22:41 | 0:22:45 | |
But how short should life expectancy be for any hospital to resort | 0:22:47 | 0:22:51 | |
to unknown and untried methods? | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
What was really the case with the first plastic trachea patient, | 0:22:56 | 0:22:59 | |
Andemariam? | 0:22:59 | 0:23:01 | |
How ill was he when he underwent surgery? | 0:23:02 | 0:23:04 | |
Andemariam had previously had a slow-growing cancer in his trachea. | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
He'd been operated on and received radiotherapy and, at first, | 0:23:17 | 0:23:21 | |
it had seemed successful. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:22 | |
But at a routine examination, | 0:23:22 | 0:23:25 | |
his doctor had discovered a growth in Andemariam's throat. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:29 | |
The doctors felt they were not able to handle his case in Iceland | 0:23:30 | 0:23:34 | |
and began to look for specialist help. | 0:23:34 | 0:23:37 | |
Karolinska Hospital suggested Paolo Macchiarini. | 0:23:37 | 0:23:40 | |
From this point, the stories begin to differ. | 0:23:41 | 0:23:44 | |
One patient was referred from Iceland | 0:23:46 | 0:23:49 | |
that was given a life expectancy of six months. | 0:23:49 | 0:23:52 | |
We decided that there was a risk of suffocation. | 0:23:52 | 0:23:56 | |
He was very short of breath when he arrived in Stockholm. | 0:23:56 | 0:24:00 | |
He could not really speak one sentence without stopping... | 0:24:00 | 0:24:03 | |
He had this... HE MAKES RATTLING BREATHING SOUND | 0:24:05 | 0:24:07 | |
We were in need of something now and not tomorrow. | 0:24:09 | 0:24:13 | |
Jungebluth, Macchiarini, Hamsten and Bratt | 0:24:13 | 0:24:16 | |
describe his condition as acute. | 0:24:16 | 0:24:19 | |
But this wasn't Andemariam's view of it. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:22 | |
When he wasn't busy with examinations, | 0:24:24 | 0:24:27 | |
he often left the hospital. | 0:24:27 | 0:24:28 | |
He met friends and went for long walks. | 0:24:30 | 0:24:33 | |
They went to cafes and restaurants. | 0:24:35 | 0:24:37 | |
And Andemariam was well enough to travel to some friends, | 0:24:39 | 0:24:42 | |
up in Sundsvall. | 0:24:42 | 0:24:43 | |
When he spoke to Icelandic television, he didn't seem | 0:24:47 | 0:24:50 | |
to believe that his condition had needed urgent treatment. | 0:24:50 | 0:24:55 | |
When I was going from Iceland to Sweden, I didn't know that it would | 0:24:55 | 0:25:02 | |
be such a big operation. | 0:25:02 | 0:25:04 | |
But then, when I met the doctor, the Italian - | 0:25:04 | 0:25:08 | |
Dr Paolo - then, he said... | 0:25:08 | 0:25:11 | |
.."It will be removed at the throat | 0:25:14 | 0:25:17 | |
"and we will put another one, but this will be synthetic." | 0:25:17 | 0:25:20 | |
At the press conference, one year after the operation, | 0:25:22 | 0:25:26 | |
Paolo remembered their meeting. | 0:25:26 | 0:25:27 | |
The first reaction was just to look at me, to say, you are crazy. | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
And he said, "Well..." and I said, "Yes, I am." | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
I was very scared, very terrified. | 0:25:36 | 0:25:40 | |
And the other thing which made me a bit scared was that... | 0:25:40 | 0:25:45 | |
..this was happening for the first time. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:48 | |
"How much is the success rate?" | 0:25:48 | 0:25:51 | |
And I said, "I don't know." | 0:25:51 | 0:25:52 | |
"Why?" "I never did it before." | 0:25:52 | 0:25:54 | |
I said, no. I just said, no. | 0:25:57 | 0:25:59 | |
"But this is your only chance you have right now." | 0:25:59 | 0:26:02 | |
Andemariam had not seen his condition as acute | 0:26:02 | 0:26:06 | |
and he'd been terrified of the operation - | 0:26:06 | 0:26:09 | |
the first one of its kind in the world. | 0:26:09 | 0:26:12 | |
And yet, he agreed to it. | 0:26:12 | 0:26:14 | |
He told me straight, you know, "We did not try this to a human being. | 0:26:14 | 0:26:19 | |
"We tried this into pigs and animals", | 0:26:19 | 0:26:21 | |
so maybe it was working for the animals, so... | 0:26:21 | 0:26:25 | |
Andemariam had believed the tracheas had already been tried on animals, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:34 | |
even though this wasn't the case. | 0:26:34 | 0:26:37 | |
And this is also what his widow, Merhawit, believed for a long time. | 0:26:37 | 0:26:41 | |
Paolo had given Andemariam a certificate to sign. | 0:27:09 | 0:27:12 | |
It said that the surgery was his only chance of survival. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:17 | |
He was very confident. | 0:27:22 | 0:27:24 | |
Enough to make me persuaded, | 0:27:24 | 0:27:28 | |
to make me believe in this. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:29 | |
Andemariam lived for two and a half years with the plastic trachea. | 0:27:52 | 0:27:57 | |
We know for sure that Andemariam's cancer was a very relatively | 0:27:57 | 0:28:01 | |
slow-growing type. | 0:28:01 | 0:28:03 | |
No-one knows how long he would have lived | 0:28:03 | 0:28:06 | |
if he had declined the plastic trachea. | 0:28:06 | 0:28:09 | |
I don't see that there was a clear-cut... | 0:28:15 | 0:28:17 | |
-..acute... -You are insinuating that we took a decision, | 0:28:19 | 0:28:23 | |
we doctors, or whoever, that was not necessary, | 0:28:23 | 0:28:29 | |
above the line. | 0:28:29 | 0:28:30 | |
That's a huge accusation. | 0:28:31 | 0:28:35 | |
And what would your reply be? | 0:28:35 | 0:28:37 | |
I don't reply to this accusation. | 0:28:37 | 0:28:39 | |
Why you don't ask all these | 0:28:41 | 0:28:43 | |
health care providers that are here at KI? | 0:28:43 | 0:28:47 | |
Because you didn't. | 0:28:47 | 0:28:48 | |
Obviously, I will, I will. But you are... | 0:28:49 | 0:28:52 | |
I think that's courtesy to ask you. | 0:28:52 | 0:28:53 | |
I am, I am, I am, I am. I mean, I'm not God, I'm not above the line. | 0:28:53 | 0:28:57 | |
I am a man, a human being, that does... | 0:28:57 | 0:29:01 | |
..mistakes all the time. | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
But do you see why I ask you? | 0:29:10 | 0:29:12 | |
-I mean... -No, I don't see it. It's... | 0:29:12 | 0:29:15 | |
That's a visit from you that I didn't expect. | 0:29:17 | 0:29:19 | |
Andemariam's operation became Paolo's most important. | 0:29:21 | 0:29:25 | |
It was through this surgery that his technique became known to the world. | 0:29:25 | 0:29:29 | |
-REPORTER: -In Sweden, they've carried out the world's first transplant | 0:29:29 | 0:29:32 | |
of a synthetic organ... | 0:29:32 | 0:29:34 | |
And in the articles from the first year's outcome, | 0:29:34 | 0:29:37 | |
it says that the plastic trachea was functioning better and better. | 0:29:37 | 0:29:41 | |
But Andemariam's autopsy report had shown that the trachea | 0:29:42 | 0:29:47 | |
was actually heavily inflamed, | 0:29:47 | 0:29:50 | |
full of dead tissue and that it had become almost completely loose. | 0:29:50 | 0:29:55 | |
Could something that had ended so badly | 0:29:56 | 0:29:59 | |
really be as positive as Paolo had depicted? | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
Or did Paolo not describe the whole truth in his articles? | 0:30:04 | 0:30:07 | |
In August 2011, Andemariam was examined in Iceland. | 0:30:12 | 0:30:16 | |
The work carried out there makes up an important part | 0:30:18 | 0:30:20 | |
of the scientific base for the first article on his plastic trachea. | 0:30:20 | 0:30:25 | |
This is two months after the operation and the Icelandic doctors | 0:30:26 | 0:30:31 | |
were about to examine Andemariam's plastic trachea. | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
With a little pair of forceps, | 0:30:42 | 0:30:44 | |
they attempted to cut small fragments | 0:30:44 | 0:30:47 | |
from the surface of the plastic, | 0:30:47 | 0:30:48 | |
in a so-called biopsy. | 0:30:48 | 0:30:50 | |
But it seemed difficult to cut any tissue samples from the plastic. | 0:30:58 | 0:31:02 | |
In the end, they only managed to cut off a few tiny pieces of plastic. | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
When the pieces were analysed, | 0:31:45 | 0:31:47 | |
individual cells were found. | 0:31:47 | 0:31:49 | |
They were not healthy trachea cells but, in theory, | 0:31:51 | 0:31:54 | |
could possibly generate them. | 0:31:54 | 0:31:56 | |
Most of the tissue was dead, | 0:31:59 | 0:32:01 | |
infected and covered in fungus. | 0:32:01 | 0:32:03 | |
But in his article, Paolo exaggerated the few positives, | 0:32:27 | 0:32:32 | |
claiming that large portions of tissue seemed to be on their way | 0:32:32 | 0:32:36 | |
to develop into a healthy trachea. | 0:32:36 | 0:32:38 | |
He also wrongly stated that the plastic trachea was completely free | 0:32:40 | 0:32:44 | |
from fungus and bacteria. | 0:32:44 | 0:32:46 | |
Since the Vice Chancellor had himself exonerated Macchiarini | 0:33:30 | 0:33:34 | |
from dishonesty in his reports, | 0:33:34 | 0:33:37 | |
he ought to have been able to answer this. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:39 | |
But Hamsten still seemed convinced | 0:33:40 | 0:33:42 | |
that the discrepancies were mere details | 0:33:42 | 0:33:46 | |
and believed that the surgery had been a success. | 0:33:46 | 0:33:48 | |
But Andemariam's wife, Merhawit, has a very different view. | 0:34:05 | 0:34:09 | |
She says that, even if Andemariam had only lived a few more months | 0:34:11 | 0:34:16 | |
without the operation, | 0:34:16 | 0:34:18 | |
it would still have been better than suffering for two and a half years. | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
Merhawit's side of the story isn't represented | 0:34:38 | 0:34:40 | |
in Paolo's scientific works. | 0:34:40 | 0:34:42 | |
In one of his articles, | 0:34:44 | 0:34:46 | |
he describes the state of Andemariam's plastic trachea | 0:34:46 | 0:34:49 | |
after one year. | 0:34:49 | 0:34:51 | |
In the article, Macchiarini claims that his patient | 0:34:51 | 0:34:54 | |
had "an almost normal airway". | 0:34:54 | 0:34:57 | |
This is how a normal airway should look. | 0:35:01 | 0:35:03 | |
Here you see lots of small blood vessels - | 0:35:05 | 0:35:09 | |
they are keeping the trachea alive. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:12 | |
Everything is covered by fine pinkish membrane, | 0:35:12 | 0:35:15 | |
but when I see a film from Andemariam's examination | 0:35:16 | 0:35:19 | |
shortly before the anniversary, | 0:35:19 | 0:35:21 | |
I wonder how anyone could say that he had an almost normal airway. | 0:35:21 | 0:35:26 | |
The camera is on its way down through a tube | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
in Andemariam's throat. | 0:35:32 | 0:35:33 | |
Deep down, you can see something white, | 0:35:35 | 0:35:38 | |
the edge of the plastic trachea. | 0:35:38 | 0:35:40 | |
Down in the plastic part, you can see mucus, | 0:35:44 | 0:35:47 | |
which Andemariam is unable to cough up. | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
And to the left, where the plastic meets the natural trachea, | 0:35:54 | 0:35:58 | |
it's bleeding and pulsating. | 0:35:58 | 0:36:00 | |
And there is a hole, a hole directly into the rest of the body - | 0:36:01 | 0:36:05 | |
a so-called fistula. | 0:36:05 | 0:36:07 | |
This is what a healthy airway looks like. | 0:36:09 | 0:36:12 | |
And this is how the same area looks down towards Andemariam's lungs. | 0:36:16 | 0:36:20 | |
The little black dot near the middle of the picture | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
is all that remains of Andemariam's airway. | 0:36:25 | 0:36:28 | |
The rest is clogged up by scar tissue. | 0:36:30 | 0:36:32 | |
The right lung is more or less cut off. | 0:36:34 | 0:36:36 | |
The doctors are forced to pull off large bits of scar tissue, | 0:36:38 | 0:36:42 | |
in order for it to open up. | 0:36:42 | 0:36:43 | |
They also need to insert a metal net, to keep the airway open. | 0:36:45 | 0:36:48 | |
There is nothing about this in Paolo's article. | 0:36:54 | 0:36:57 | |
The only thing it says is that the airway is almost normal... | 0:36:59 | 0:37:03 | |
..and that his lung function has improved. | 0:37:04 | 0:37:07 | |
I've been going through these articles so many times | 0:37:09 | 0:37:12 | |
about the first operation and the biopsies, the broker's copies, | 0:37:12 | 0:37:17 | |
everything, and the article doesn't seem to reflect the real situation | 0:37:17 | 0:37:25 | |
with the patient. | 0:37:25 | 0:37:26 | |
OK, then why you don't ask the commission that has evaluated | 0:37:26 | 0:37:29 | |
all the documents? | 0:37:29 | 0:37:30 | |
No, but I have to ask you, because you are the main author. | 0:37:30 | 0:37:33 | |
-Yes. -And it's your work. -I am the senior author and I have | 0:37:33 | 0:37:38 | |
provided written, compelling evidence | 0:37:38 | 0:37:41 | |
that contrasts what you're saying, | 0:37:41 | 0:37:43 | |
so I don't need to restate this very bad episode of my life, please. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
I hope that you understand. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:51 | |
In your statement, I don't see that you actually refuting | 0:37:51 | 0:37:54 | |
the actual faults from the records. | 0:37:54 | 0:37:59 | |
I don't see that you're showing the opposite. | 0:37:59 | 0:38:02 | |
Yeah, it was actually vascularised, | 0:38:02 | 0:38:05 | |
it was actually covered by epithelial... | 0:38:05 | 0:38:07 | |
Why you don't complain to the Ethical Commission or to the KI? | 0:38:07 | 0:38:12 | |
I don't know what you're arguing here. | 0:38:12 | 0:38:14 | |
When Hamsten and his colleagues cleared Macchiarini, | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
they sent an important message to the rest of the world. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:30 | |
What had been written in Macchiarini's articles | 0:38:31 | 0:38:34 | |
was substantially true. | 0:38:34 | 0:38:35 | |
Hence, they supported Macchiarini's claims | 0:38:45 | 0:38:48 | |
that Andemariam's plastic trachea | 0:38:48 | 0:38:49 | |
was about to develop into a normal airway. | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
But the film from the examination has clearly shown | 0:39:23 | 0:39:26 | |
that one of Andemariam's airways was almost completely closed off. | 0:39:26 | 0:39:30 | |
And that they'd had to remove | 0:39:32 | 0:39:33 | |
scar tissue and insert a metal net. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:36 | |
These discrepancies in Macchiarini's articles are just two of many | 0:40:08 | 0:40:12 | |
that were discovered and reported to the Karolinska Institute | 0:40:12 | 0:40:16 | |
by the four doctors. | 0:40:16 | 0:40:17 | |
Karolinska Hospital and Institute received several warnings | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
but failed to raise the alarm. | 0:41:02 | 0:41:04 | |
And at this time, Karolinska was still fully supportive | 0:41:36 | 0:41:39 | |
of Macchiarini and his research. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
Research which had made Macchiarini's method | 0:41:42 | 0:41:44 | |
known around the world. | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
-NEWSREADER: -..gave a man back his trachea and his life. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:48 | |
We're just a few years away from this all happening - | 0:41:48 | 0:41:51 | |
all the organs being built in a lab. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:52 | |
This is a major achievement for every other patient | 0:41:52 | 0:41:56 | |
that would need this type of transplantation. | 0:41:56 | 0:41:59 | |
We have now a clinical trial authorisation in Russia, | 0:42:00 | 0:42:03 | |
another one in... | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
The events at Karolinska had repercussions outside of Sweden. | 0:42:05 | 0:42:09 | |
For patients who were almost completely healthy... | 0:42:11 | 0:42:14 | |
..patients like Julia. | 0:42:15 | 0:42:16 | |
She might have had a long life ahead of her... | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
..and still she agreed to a potentially fatal operation. | 0:42:29 | 0:42:32 | |
She was hoping Paolo would conjure up her old self... | 0:42:35 | 0:42:38 | |
..but she seemed unaware of the enormous risks | 0:42:39 | 0:42:42 | |
the surgery posed to her. | 0:42:42 | 0:42:44 | |
It's the same plastic that this bottle is made from. | 0:42:45 | 0:42:48 | |
This is medical grade. | 0:42:48 | 0:42:50 | |
So, we know this material is very safe. | 0:42:50 | 0:42:52 | |
Nor did Julia seem aware | 0:42:54 | 0:42:56 | |
of how badly it had turned out for her predecessors. | 0:42:56 | 0:42:59 | |
And that there was a risk she might die. | 0:43:00 | 0:43:02 | |
You're in very good hands. Paolo is the best surgeon in the world. | 0:43:04 | 0:43:07 | |
-I know. -You know? | 0:43:07 | 0:43:09 | |
You're right. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:10 | |
Paolo has published hardly any facts from Julia's operation. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:50 | |
But in interviews after the operation, | 0:44:02 | 0:44:04 | |
he was quick to claim it was a success. | 0:44:04 | 0:44:07 | |
And I still do not believe that, a few days ago, | 0:44:07 | 0:44:10 | |
she couldn't breathe and talk normally. | 0:44:10 | 0:44:13 | |
After the surgery, Julia had a long struggle ahead of her - | 0:44:25 | 0:44:30 | |
one that she couldn't win. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:31 | |
Slowly, her condition worsened. | 0:44:33 | 0:44:35 | |
The plastic trachea didn't work... | 0:44:37 | 0:44:39 | |
..and Macchiarini implanted a new plastic trachea in Julia. | 0:44:42 | 0:44:45 | |
When Julia had only months to live, | 0:45:01 | 0:45:04 | |
Paolo appeared on German television... | 0:45:04 | 0:45:06 | |
..and he gave a very different picture of Julia's condition. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:10 | |
Five months later, | 0:45:44 | 0:45:46 | |
Julia died. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:48 | |
Two months after her death, | 0:45:51 | 0:45:53 | |
Macchiarini wrote to the journal Nature. | 0:45:53 | 0:45:55 | |
He said that Julia's trachea had been examined weeks before death | 0:45:57 | 0:46:01 | |
and claimed that there was nothing wrong with it. | 0:46:01 | 0:46:04 | |
You can live a long life with a tracheostomy. | 0:46:08 | 0:46:10 | |
I wondered what Paolo's thoughts were on this. | 0:46:12 | 0:46:14 | |
Had he informed Julia of all the risks? | 0:46:16 | 0:46:18 | |
The patient may say, "Yes, that's fine," | 0:46:21 | 0:46:24 | |
-but the responsibility... -Patients are not idiots, | 0:46:24 | 0:46:26 | |
they are very intelligent, you need to respect that. | 0:46:26 | 0:46:30 | |
That's not nice what you're saying. | 0:46:30 | 0:46:32 | |
Patients understand very well, | 0:46:32 | 0:46:35 | |
because they are told what to do and what not to do... | 0:46:35 | 0:46:39 | |
..that you can stay with a hole... | 0:46:40 | 0:46:42 | |
..that you might have a trachea that works or not, | 0:46:43 | 0:46:46 | |
that there might be complications and so forth. | 0:46:46 | 0:46:49 | |
Absolutely, but you feel, you personally, | 0:46:49 | 0:46:52 | |
you feel no doubts? | 0:46:52 | 0:46:53 | |
You don't feel regret or maybe, "I shouldn't have done this"? | 0:46:53 | 0:46:58 | |
Of course, I have doubt. All the time, I have doubts. | 0:46:58 | 0:47:00 | |
Even if I'm going out, I have doubts I should have done | 0:47:00 | 0:47:03 | |
this interview or not. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:05 | |
Come on, I mean, we are doing such very complex innovative things | 0:47:05 | 0:47:10 | |
that I'm struggling and thinking, 'Should we do it really or not? | 0:47:10 | 0:47:14 | |
'Is she or he the best candidate or an appropriate candidate?' | 0:47:14 | 0:47:18 | |
You really think that we are beasts? | 0:47:19 | 0:47:22 | |
I began to realise that Paolo | 0:47:24 | 0:47:26 | |
was not going to give me any more answers. | 0:47:26 | 0:47:29 | |
If you feel I wasn't safe, then I accept your opinion. | 0:47:29 | 0:47:34 | |
What's your opinion? | 0:47:34 | 0:47:36 | |
I already said what was my opinion. | 0:47:36 | 0:47:38 | |
The most I got were counter-questions. | 0:47:39 | 0:47:41 | |
-I've seen all... -Did you? | 0:47:43 | 0:47:45 | |
Sorry to insist, now I am the journalist. | 0:47:45 | 0:47:48 | |
-Did you see that? -Or perhaps, he just didn't want to answer me. | 0:47:48 | 0:47:51 | |
There's no reference. | 0:47:51 | 0:47:53 | |
But maybe, they are stored in a different compartment. Ask KI. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:57 | |
But I just couldn't understand | 0:47:57 | 0:47:59 | |
how Paolo can implant a plastic trachea in Julia | 0:47:59 | 0:48:03 | |
without first having tested it on one single animal. | 0:48:03 | 0:48:06 | |
So, your profession is? | 0:48:08 | 0:48:09 | |
-How do you mean? -What are you doing as job? | 0:48:11 | 0:48:13 | |
You have to explain what you mean. | 0:48:16 | 0:48:18 | |
You are producer? | 0:48:18 | 0:48:20 | |
TV producer? | 0:48:20 | 0:48:21 | |
How can you possibly understand all the details | 0:48:21 | 0:48:24 | |
of a medical evaluation? | 0:48:24 | 0:48:26 | |
And you know all the details of a medical evaluation. | 0:48:27 | 0:48:30 | |
No, of course not. | 0:48:30 | 0:48:31 | |
So if there were, I don't know, | 0:48:31 | 0:48:34 | |
about 10 to 20 health care professionals, | 0:48:34 | 0:48:36 | |
health care providers, that decided | 0:48:36 | 0:48:38 | |
that this was the most appropriate procedure for her... | 0:48:38 | 0:48:41 | |
..then I believe we can trust them. | 0:48:42 | 0:48:44 | |
Perhaps Paolo actually believes he hasn't committed any mistakes | 0:48:52 | 0:48:56 | |
and that in order to progress, you have to experiments on humans. | 0:48:56 | 0:49:02 | |
Jungebluth's view was that certain things could only be learned | 0:49:02 | 0:49:05 | |
on the operating table. | 0:49:05 | 0:49:06 | |
But if I understood you correctly, your assessment is also that the... | 0:49:11 | 0:49:17 | |
..synthetic scaffold don't really work at the moment. | 0:49:19 | 0:49:22 | |
Of course, this is the reason why we stopped the clinical trial | 0:49:22 | 0:49:26 | |
and we are on hold to have a better scaffold. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:29 | |
But you see no problems with the road to coming to that conclusion? | 0:49:37 | 0:49:42 | |
-What? -You see no problems with, with... | 0:49:44 | 0:49:47 | |
Listen, if you don't do things, then you probably will never have... | 0:49:49 | 0:49:53 | |
..such conclusions, right? | 0:49:55 | 0:49:57 | |
If you just do reporting without doing it, | 0:49:59 | 0:50:03 | |
you will not report, so, | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
of course, we have experienced... | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
..complications but we have learned a lot from them, as well, | 0:50:10 | 0:50:14 | |
so that possibly the next patients, | 0:50:14 | 0:50:17 | |
everything will be better, much better. | 0:50:17 | 0:50:20 | |
So, Paolo has learned that the plastic tracheas don't work | 0:50:22 | 0:50:27 | |
but to him, it's been worth it. | 0:50:27 | 0:50:28 | |
And at the time, it seemed as if representatives from Karolinska | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
were of the same opinion. | 0:50:33 | 0:50:34 | |
Richard Kuylenstierna was one of those who authorised | 0:50:36 | 0:50:40 | |
the first operation on Andemariam. | 0:50:40 | 0:50:42 | |
In Russia, they were also initially enthusiastic | 0:51:13 | 0:51:16 | |
about the plastic tracheas. | 0:51:16 | 0:51:18 | |
Igor Polyakov operated on Julia, together with Macchiarini. | 0:51:26 | 0:51:30 | |
He really believed that it would work, | 0:51:30 | 0:51:33 | |
since Macchiarini had the stamp of approval | 0:51:33 | 0:51:35 | |
from the Karolinska Institute. | 0:51:35 | 0:51:37 | |
Without that, the Russian trials might never have taken place. | 0:51:37 | 0:51:41 | |
In Russia, they now know that everything went wrong, | 0:52:03 | 0:52:08 | |
not least in Julia's case... | 0:52:08 | 0:52:09 | |
..and they dare to admit it. | 0:52:10 | 0:52:12 | |
While in early 2016 at Karolinska, | 0:52:37 | 0:52:40 | |
it was almost as if nothing had happened. | 0:52:40 | 0:52:42 | |
Perhaps because at the time, | 0:52:44 | 0:52:46 | |
the hospital still hadn't fully investigated | 0:52:46 | 0:52:49 | |
how they could put patients through treatment methods | 0:52:49 | 0:52:52 | |
that hadn't even been tested on animals. | 0:52:52 | 0:52:54 | |
Perhaps because, at the time, the Karolinska Institute | 0:52:56 | 0:52:59 | |
was still standing by Macchiarini's research work. | 0:52:59 | 0:53:02 | |
After this interview in February 2016, | 0:54:37 | 0:54:40 | |
Hamsten would distance himself from Paolo's work in Russia... | 0:54:40 | 0:54:44 | |
..and he maintained that Karolinska was not responsible | 0:54:45 | 0:54:48 | |
for the way Paolo's methods had been adopted there. | 0:54:48 | 0:54:51 | |
You're insinuating that everybody in the group has lied, | 0:54:54 | 0:54:58 | |
which is very bad from your side. | 0:54:58 | 0:54:59 | |
I didn't expect that. Wow. | 0:54:59 | 0:55:02 | |
And even the president has lied, even the commission has lied, | 0:55:03 | 0:55:07 | |
everybody has lied. | 0:55:07 | 0:55:09 | |
Maybe something is wrong in your assumption | 0:55:09 | 0:55:11 | |
or in your statement. | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
But I'm just using my brainpower | 0:55:15 | 0:55:18 | |
-and I'm trying to find the facts that show... -Well, then, | 0:55:18 | 0:55:23 | |
maybe you should look and search more before doing this interview. | 0:55:23 | 0:55:26 | |
Think so. So, please, let's stop here now. | 0:55:27 | 0:55:31 | |
Ever since I first met Paolo, I've been curious about him. | 0:56:17 | 0:56:21 | |
Everything he described sounded so good. | 0:56:22 | 0:56:24 | |
Almost too good to be true. | 0:56:28 | 0:56:29 | |
Welcome to this session. | 0:56:31 | 0:56:33 | |
After this series was first broadcast in Sweden, | 0:56:38 | 0:56:41 | |
it created intense pressure on the Karolinska Institute | 0:56:41 | 0:56:44 | |
and the University Hospital. | 0:56:44 | 0:56:46 | |
After an initial period of denial, | 0:56:51 | 0:56:53 | |
the Vice Chancellor Hamsten resigned. | 0:56:53 | 0:56:56 | |
The board of the Karolinska Institute, as well as Lendahl, | 0:56:59 | 0:57:02 | |
the permanent secretary of the Nobel Committee, | 0:57:02 | 0:57:05 | |
have now also stepped down. | 0:57:05 | 0:57:06 | |
Paolo Macchiarini had his contract and research group terminated. | 0:57:11 | 0:57:15 | |
Internationally, more than ten inquiries have been opened | 0:57:18 | 0:57:22 | |
and Swedish prosecutors are investigating | 0:57:22 | 0:57:24 | |
whether to press Macchiarini with charges | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
for involuntary manslaughter. | 0:57:27 | 0:57:29 | |
But the most important question of all remains unanswered. | 0:57:30 | 0:57:35 | |
How could top universities and hospitals | 0:57:35 | 0:57:37 | |
support everything that happened for so long? | 0:57:37 | 0:57:40 | |
I can't help wondering... | 0:58:08 | 0:58:10 | |
..is the reputation of the medical establishment | 0:58:11 | 0:58:14 | |
worth more than a human life? | 0:58:14 | 0:58:16 |