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Great Ormond Street Children's Hospital has helped develop cures | 0:00:03 | 0:00:06 | |
for many conditions which just a few years ago were untreatable. | 0:00:06 | 0:00:09 | |
But for medical science to move forward, | 0:00:09 | 0:00:13 | |
doctors must be able to experiment. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
We've done a very small number of patients with this condition in England. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:20 | |
If you sign the consent form, you're basically signing a contract with uncertainty. | 0:00:20 | 0:00:25 | |
Experimental surgery on children raises difficult ethical dilemmas. | 0:00:25 | 0:00:31 | |
Whenever you have any patient, it's trying to make the right decision | 0:00:31 | 0:00:34 | |
and when they are so severe, | 0:00:34 | 0:00:37 | |
possibly the right decision is not to operate on them. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:41 | |
For children with conditions which have no known cure, | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
these experiments are their only hope. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:47 | |
This is basically our only option to give him a better life, otherwise... | 0:00:47 | 0:00:52 | |
he'll die. | 0:00:52 | 0:00:54 | |
Surgeons are constantly forced to question how far | 0:00:54 | 0:00:57 | |
they should push the boundaries in the hope of finding a cure. | 0:00:57 | 0:01:00 | |
Sometimes we've got the technology, we can do all kinds of things, | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
but we have to also ask the question, | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
is it the right thing to do? | 0:01:06 | 0:01:07 | |
Just because we CAN do it, OUGHT we be doing it? | 0:01:07 | 0:01:10 | |
15-year-old Shauna has spent her entire life in and out of hospital. | 0:01:29 | 0:01:35 | |
She was born with one lung, a major heart defect | 0:01:35 | 0:01:38 | |
and her windpipe is slowly closing. | 0:01:38 | 0:01:40 | |
So I have to ring the doorbell now, because I lost my badge. | 0:01:40 | 0:01:44 | |
Do you want to ring the doorbell? | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
Recently, her ability to breathe has deteriorated | 0:01:47 | 0:01:50 | |
and she is at risk of suffocation. | 0:01:50 | 0:01:53 | |
'They can't give it a name, cos she has that many problems. | 0:01:53 | 0:01:56 | |
'She had a heart attack ten weeks ago...' | 0:01:56 | 0:01:59 | |
I nearly lost her that day. It took them seven minutes to get her back. | 0:01:59 | 0:02:04 | |
If they don't do anything pretty quick, | 0:02:06 | 0:02:09 | |
I won't have her much longer. | 0:02:09 | 0:02:12 | |
They've told me that. | 0:02:12 | 0:02:13 | |
State-of-the-art equipment, huh? You've got a telly in here as well. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:21 | |
Shauna is at Great Ormond Street to see if she is eligible for | 0:02:21 | 0:02:24 | |
experimental surgery that has only been performed on one other child. | 0:02:24 | 0:02:28 | |
Surgeons want to offer her a donor trachea | 0:02:28 | 0:02:31 | |
which will be modified with Shauna's own stem cells. | 0:02:31 | 0:02:36 | |
If they go ahead, she will be given a new windpipe made of her own DNA. | 0:02:36 | 0:02:40 | |
We've only done one tracheal transplant before | 0:02:41 | 0:02:43 | |
and we learned a lot of things in a very short period of time | 0:02:43 | 0:02:48 | |
and there are no long-term data. | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
The balance between is this appropriate or ethical, | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
right or wrong, is a scenario in which there are no correct answers. | 0:02:54 | 0:02:59 | |
There's just best judgement and so that's what we'll try to achieve | 0:02:59 | 0:03:02 | |
between us all and get a lot of input into getting to that decision. | 0:03:02 | 0:03:05 | |
Colin Wallace is a respiratory consultant at Great Ormond Street. | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
Hi. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:12 | |
He's part of the team weighing up the risks of the transplant | 0:03:12 | 0:03:16 | |
and her current quality of life. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
Are you Shauna? How're you doing? I've heard lots about you. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:22 | |
-We haven't met before, have we? -No. | 0:03:22 | 0:03:25 | |
If I was to ask you for three things that you would like to have better | 0:03:25 | 0:03:31 | |
after an operation on your trachea, what would they be? | 0:03:31 | 0:03:34 | |
There's a lot of things she would like, aren't there? | 0:03:34 | 0:03:38 | |
Name one of them - what would you like? | 0:03:38 | 0:03:42 | |
-Be better. -Be better. -And in what way would you like to be better? | 0:03:42 | 0:03:46 | |
What do you miss? You like to do? | 0:03:48 | 0:03:52 | |
-You go with the carers, but you can't do it. -Swimming. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
-Swimming. -Yes? | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
You'd like to try swimming? And you go to school? Normal school? | 0:03:57 | 0:04:02 | |
-Do you have to have someone with you? -Yes. -What's that like? -All right. | 0:04:02 | 0:04:07 | |
-Hm? -All right. -It's OK, yes? And at home? | 0:04:07 | 0:04:10 | |
She has night carers. | 0:04:10 | 0:04:12 | |
They come in at 8.00 on a night and finish at 6.00 in the morning, | 0:04:12 | 0:04:16 | |
so that I can have some rest. | 0:04:16 | 0:04:18 | |
Yes. And you have a friend at school? | 0:04:18 | 0:04:20 | |
-What's your best friend's name? -Courtney. | 0:04:20 | 0:04:23 | |
What did she think about your tracheostomy? | 0:04:23 | 0:04:26 | |
-She's all right with it. -She's used to it now, is she? -Yes. | 0:04:26 | 0:04:30 | |
And what about other things you'd like to do | 0:04:30 | 0:04:33 | |
that you can't do at the moment? | 0:04:33 | 0:04:35 | |
-Like, on the bus. -On the bus? You don't go on the bus? | 0:04:38 | 0:04:42 | |
-I do, but... -But you and Courtney could go by yourselves on the bus. | 0:04:42 | 0:04:47 | |
-Yes. -You think so? Would that be quite an adventure, hey? | 0:04:47 | 0:04:52 | |
What would you need to know will happen | 0:04:52 | 0:04:56 | |
to be able to go ahead and say yes, we'll have the surgery? | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
Well, it's stupid really, | 0:05:01 | 0:05:02 | |
cos I'd want to know if it was going to be a success. | 0:05:02 | 0:05:05 | |
-But you can't give me that guarantee. -Yes. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:09 | |
So, because her life is good at the moment, | 0:05:09 | 0:05:11 | |
she has got a good quality of life. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:13 | |
Mm, mm. | 0:05:13 | 0:05:15 | |
It's a slightly unpredictable one though, isn't it? | 0:05:15 | 0:05:18 | |
Yes, because of the arrest, ten weeks ago. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
It shows there's a vulnerability here on the narrowing of the trachea | 0:05:20 | 0:05:25 | |
and the lack of reserve of only just having one lung. | 0:05:25 | 0:05:29 | |
Yes. | 0:05:29 | 0:05:31 | |
Shauna is in charge. You in charge? Yay! | 0:05:34 | 0:05:37 | |
What's quite interesting is that mother does perceive | 0:05:39 | 0:05:42 | |
the current quality of life as being good. | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
In other words, this is not a situation where we've got | 0:05:45 | 0:05:50 | |
nothing to lose by going ahead - they've got quite a bit to lose | 0:05:50 | 0:05:53 | |
and this is going to make for a difficult decision. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:56 | |
She's got a reasonable quality of life, she's got her good friend, | 0:05:56 | 0:06:00 | |
she clearly has a sense of humour and enjoying herself - | 0:06:00 | 0:06:04 | |
it makes it harder. | 0:06:04 | 0:06:05 | |
Before surgery becomes an option, doctors examine Shauna's airway | 0:06:09 | 0:06:13 | |
and her lung to see if they are healthy enough to support a transplant. | 0:06:13 | 0:06:17 | |
OK, then? | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
If you plug it on... Got it? Well done. | 0:06:23 | 0:06:27 | |
I'll turn the juice up slowly - some laughing gas to begin with, OK? | 0:06:27 | 0:06:31 | |
Try and think of something nice. | 0:06:31 | 0:06:33 | |
Some nice place to go when you're asleep. | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
I think we'll lie you back now, just... | 0:06:38 | 0:06:41 | |
Why don't you lie back gently? | 0:06:41 | 0:06:43 | |
-We'll take care of her. -See you soon. -We'll see you later. | 0:06:44 | 0:06:47 | |
-Thanks very much. -Down we go. | 0:06:47 | 0:06:49 | |
SUCTION | 0:06:52 | 0:06:54 | |
Until now, a metal cage called a stent has been keeping | 0:07:11 | 0:07:15 | |
Shauna's trachea open. | 0:07:15 | 0:07:17 | |
Surgeons must adjust it every ten weeks, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:19 | |
but this causes scar tissue to build up and is blocking her airway. | 0:07:19 | 0:07:23 | |
It's extraordinary imaging, this - | 0:07:25 | 0:07:27 | |
the trachea has got this metalwork all round it | 0:07:27 | 0:07:31 | |
that's supporting it, but inside the trachea, it's very narrow. | 0:07:31 | 0:07:34 | |
There's a lot of tissue here that's grown into this stenting process. | 0:07:34 | 0:07:40 | |
It's lying perilously close to very big vessels | 0:07:40 | 0:07:44 | |
and then you've got the only lung, which has overblown and | 0:07:44 | 0:07:48 | |
extended right across the midline, so it's a huge, single lung. | 0:07:48 | 0:07:53 | |
Encouragingly, | 0:07:54 | 0:07:55 | |
the airways from the trachea onwards are of good calibre | 0:07:55 | 0:08:00 | |
and nicely open. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:03 | |
But my feeling is that on these scans, | 0:08:05 | 0:08:09 | |
we've got enough good lung structure here... | 0:08:09 | 0:08:13 | |
This lung could cope. | 0:08:14 | 0:08:16 | |
As tracheal transplants in children are so new, | 0:08:22 | 0:08:25 | |
surgeon Martin Elliott must consult with the hospital's ethics committee | 0:08:25 | 0:08:29 | |
before offering surgery. | 0:08:29 | 0:08:32 | |
It is made up of professionals from a variety of backgrounds, | 0:08:32 | 0:08:35 | |
from both inside and outside the hospital. | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
'It's an extra check on the validity of what we're proposing.' | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
Frankly, we are so focused on trying to make her better that we | 0:08:43 | 0:08:48 | |
need a more cool and detached intellectual discussion. | 0:08:48 | 0:08:54 | |
I want to show you what we did to another patient last year. | 0:08:54 | 0:09:00 | |
We took a donor trachea and that trachea was then washed | 0:09:00 | 0:09:05 | |
until all the cells were removed from it, | 0:09:05 | 0:09:07 | |
so detergent enzymatic washes. | 0:09:07 | 0:09:09 | |
So you're left with what is essentially a scaffold | 0:09:09 | 0:09:12 | |
of largely collagen and just a few proteins, | 0:09:12 | 0:09:14 | |
but no active... immunologically active cells. | 0:09:14 | 0:09:18 | |
That graft was marinaded with stem cells | 0:09:18 | 0:09:22 | |
and then locally we injected a drug called TGF beta, | 0:09:22 | 0:09:27 | |
which is supposed to trigger it to become cartilage. | 0:09:27 | 0:09:30 | |
So after it's been marinaded, the graft returned in a motorbike | 0:09:30 | 0:09:34 | |
to Great Ormond Street and we were able to stitch the trachea into Kieron. | 0:09:34 | 0:09:39 | |
So what we want to do for Shauna is to use the same basic principles | 0:09:39 | 0:09:45 | |
of allowing a skeleton of tissue to be populated | 0:09:45 | 0:09:49 | |
by the child's own stem cells, so that there's no rejection, | 0:09:49 | 0:09:53 | |
and to get more rapid cellularisation of the child | 0:09:53 | 0:09:58 | |
than we had time for in Kieron. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:00 | |
I'd just like to know, if you don't do the procedure, | 0:10:00 | 0:10:02 | |
what is likely to be the manner of her death? | 0:10:02 | 0:10:05 | |
What happens as the winter emerges is that the airway, | 0:10:05 | 0:10:09 | |
the trachea is very like your nose, | 0:10:09 | 0:10:11 | |
so as you imagine your nose blocking up when you have a cold, | 0:10:11 | 0:10:15 | |
if you've ever...just remember breathing through a snorkel | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
for the first time, the sense of not being able to breathe is... | 0:10:18 | 0:10:23 | |
One of the greatest fears that you can have, | 0:10:23 | 0:10:26 | |
so I can't imagine that it would be a pleasant demise. | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
But she's going to die anyway, even if you do the procedure - | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
what would be the nature of her death if you've done the procedure? | 0:10:32 | 0:10:35 | |
Um... | 0:10:35 | 0:10:37 | |
Well, I think that's saying more than I'm prepared to say. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
I don't think she will die if we do the procedure. Um... | 0:10:41 | 0:10:45 | |
We're trying to do the procedure so that she doesn't. | 0:10:45 | 0:10:49 | |
Or at least we prolong her life | 0:10:49 | 0:10:51 | |
and her quality of life for as long as possible. | 0:10:51 | 0:10:55 | |
In terms of the timing of the decision-making, | 0:10:55 | 0:10:58 | |
would there be any advantages in deferring? | 0:10:58 | 0:11:00 | |
Would it give better outcomes or whatever? | 0:11:00 | 0:11:03 | |
No, I think there'd be a disadvantage to deferment. | 0:11:03 | 0:11:06 | |
The section here is only 2mm across. | 0:11:06 | 0:11:09 | |
That's the tip of a Biro. | 0:11:09 | 0:11:12 | |
At that point, you have to really consider how much | 0:11:12 | 0:11:15 | |
swelling of the mucosa you can tolerate | 0:11:15 | 0:11:18 | |
before it becomes a critical narrowing. | 0:11:18 | 0:11:20 | |
You haven't mentioned palliative care as an option. | 0:11:20 | 0:11:23 | |
Is that because you think it's inappropriate? | 0:11:23 | 0:11:26 | |
No, I think if I thought the treatment was really horrific, | 0:11:26 | 0:11:29 | |
and we hadn't got the experience that we have had, | 0:11:29 | 0:11:31 | |
I wouldn't have any hesitation in offering that. | 0:11:31 | 0:11:34 | |
I don't not offer palliative care for complex patients. | 0:11:34 | 0:11:37 | |
So it's not really just a choice between a horrible death | 0:11:37 | 0:11:41 | |
and the chance of improved quality of life? | 0:11:41 | 0:11:44 | |
There is a third option, which is a less horrible death? | 0:11:44 | 0:11:47 | |
Yes, that's true. | 0:11:49 | 0:11:50 | |
Palliative care may still become necessary, | 0:11:50 | 0:11:53 | |
but at the moment I'm not sure that the technical solution | 0:11:53 | 0:11:56 | |
does not indeed trump the palliative care. | 0:11:56 | 0:12:01 | |
But only for the willing participant in uncertainty. | 0:12:01 | 0:12:05 | |
Do we have any further questions? | 0:12:12 | 0:12:14 | |
The committee debated for another hour | 0:12:16 | 0:12:19 | |
and found no ethical objections to Shauna's surgery. | 0:12:19 | 0:12:22 | |
Shauna will return to Middlesbrough | 0:12:26 | 0:12:28 | |
and may have to wait up to four months | 0:12:28 | 0:12:30 | |
for the new trachea to be grown. | 0:12:30 | 0:12:32 | |
Three-month-old Muhammed has just arrived | 0:12:51 | 0:12:54 | |
on the cardiac intensive care unit. | 0:12:54 | 0:12:57 | |
At birth, he was diagnosed with Jeune's Syndrome, | 0:12:57 | 0:13:00 | |
a very rare condition with only 125 recorded cases worldwide. | 0:13:00 | 0:13:06 | |
Muhammed's rib cage doesn't grow. | 0:13:06 | 0:13:08 | |
It is trapping his lungs and eventually, | 0:13:08 | 0:13:11 | |
he will be unable to produce enough oxygen to stay alive. | 0:13:11 | 0:13:15 | |
Can we drop these lights now? | 0:13:16 | 0:13:19 | |
The width of the abdomen is normal width for a child | 0:13:19 | 0:13:22 | |
and if you just imagine where the soft tissue ends on the right with the vague, | 0:13:22 | 0:13:26 | |
grey things on either side, that would be the normal width. | 0:13:26 | 0:13:30 | |
So that's baby size. | 0:13:30 | 0:13:31 | |
If you come up towards the chest, | 0:13:31 | 0:13:33 | |
the chest narrows right in and then comes out again in the armpits. | 0:13:33 | 0:13:37 | |
This is characteristic of Jeune's Syndrome. | 0:13:37 | 0:13:40 | |
So this chest here is squeezing in | 0:13:40 | 0:13:43 | |
and the heart in the middle and the lungs are actually squashed, | 0:13:43 | 0:13:49 | |
so the child's chest is going to stay the same size. | 0:13:49 | 0:13:52 | |
So as the baby gets bigger, the chest doesn't grow and the lungs get smashed up. | 0:13:52 | 0:13:57 | |
Muhammed's parents were told by their hospital in Birmingham that they could offer no treatment. | 0:13:58 | 0:14:03 | |
After searching on the Internet, Muhammed's father | 0:14:03 | 0:14:07 | |
read about an experimental trial at Great Ormond Street, | 0:14:07 | 0:14:10 | |
where they expand the rib cage in the hope that the lungs will grow. | 0:14:10 | 0:14:15 | |
Already approved by the ethics committee, it's the only treatment for Jeune's in Europe | 0:14:16 | 0:14:21 | |
and has been performed on just six children before now. | 0:14:21 | 0:14:25 | |
-Hello, hi. -Hi. -My name is Martin Elliott. | 0:14:25 | 0:14:29 | |
Hi, very nice to meet you. | 0:14:29 | 0:14:31 | |
-Martin Elliott. Neil Bulstrode. -Nice to meet you. | 0:14:31 | 0:14:34 | |
The operation is really very simple and the principle is simple, | 0:14:34 | 0:14:40 | |
so we're going to try and show you what it is - we've worked out a way | 0:14:40 | 0:14:42 | |
of doing this using Neil's hands. | 0:14:42 | 0:14:45 | |
we cut the ribs in the front and the back and bring them out | 0:14:45 | 0:14:50 | |
and reconnect them... | 0:14:50 | 0:14:52 | |
with plates and screws, | 0:14:52 | 0:14:55 | |
so effectively, | 0:14:55 | 0:14:57 | |
we're going from four ribs, to two ribs, which are longer. | 0:14:57 | 0:15:02 | |
We would cut the third one in the middle, | 0:15:02 | 0:15:07 | |
then we would cut the other ones, front and back, front and back, | 0:15:07 | 0:15:11 | |
so that we could make them longer | 0:15:11 | 0:15:13 | |
but leave the third and the bottom one loose. | 0:15:13 | 0:15:17 | |
So, it's just stretching it out. | 0:15:17 | 0:15:20 | |
And at some stage in the future we can do the next stage | 0:15:20 | 0:15:23 | |
and make his chest wall even bigger. | 0:15:23 | 0:15:25 | |
We've done a very small number of patients with this condition | 0:15:26 | 0:15:30 | |
in England and they've all got back home off a ventilator. | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
All got back home. | 0:15:35 | 0:15:37 | |
One of them has sadly died later | 0:15:37 | 0:15:41 | |
and we don't know what's going to happen to the others. | 0:15:41 | 0:15:45 | |
No-one's going to force you to do something to Muhammed like this, | 0:15:45 | 0:15:49 | |
which is so uncertain. | 0:15:49 | 0:15:51 | |
Erm...if you sign a consent form, you're basically signing | 0:15:52 | 0:15:58 | |
a contract with uncertainty. | 0:15:58 | 0:16:00 | |
We don't know what is going to happen and neither can you. | 0:16:00 | 0:16:04 | |
If it does go well and he needs surgeries in the future, | 0:16:04 | 0:16:08 | |
how often would he need surgeries? | 0:16:08 | 0:16:11 | |
Well, the follow-up would be lifelong. | 0:16:11 | 0:16:14 | |
We will always keep a close eye. | 0:16:14 | 0:16:15 | |
People in Birmingham will keep a close eye on him | 0:16:15 | 0:16:18 | |
and then phone us when things change. That's what we would expect. | 0:16:18 | 0:16:22 | |
Basically, the way I feel is... | 0:16:23 | 0:16:26 | |
We've got no other option, basically. | 0:16:28 | 0:16:31 | |
Even, whatever happens, erm... | 0:16:31 | 0:16:35 | |
..I think, we both need to give it a try. | 0:16:37 | 0:16:40 | |
Yeah. | 0:16:40 | 0:16:41 | |
Yeah. Are you sure you're happy with that too? | 0:16:41 | 0:16:44 | |
We don't want to cause Muhammed or you any suffering. | 0:16:45 | 0:16:49 | |
That's not what we're trying to do. But that might happen. | 0:16:49 | 0:16:54 | |
At least in our minds, we will know we have tried. | 0:16:56 | 0:16:59 | |
What we can do as parents. | 0:16:59 | 0:17:01 | |
I think that's the main thing. | 0:17:03 | 0:17:05 | |
OK, well, we'll do our best as well. | 0:17:05 | 0:17:08 | |
And... | 0:17:08 | 0:17:10 | |
we'd look after him as though he was our own | 0:17:10 | 0:17:12 | |
and make sure he's all right. | 0:17:12 | 0:17:14 | |
It is not compulsory to have treatment for this | 0:17:24 | 0:17:26 | |
because no-one knows what the future is. | 0:17:26 | 0:17:30 | |
We certainly wouldn't pressurise a family into doing this. | 0:17:30 | 0:17:34 | |
Absolutely the opposite, we would very much explain to them - | 0:17:34 | 0:17:37 | |
and have explained to them - that this wouldn't be the only choice. | 0:17:37 | 0:17:41 | |
The option is to accept that death is inevitable. | 0:17:43 | 0:17:47 | |
I know the Birmingham team have even put that in a more explicit way | 0:17:47 | 0:17:50 | |
because they said, "We wouldn't do this." | 0:17:50 | 0:17:53 | |
And a significant proportion of doctors | 0:17:53 | 0:17:56 | |
and parents around the world would reasonably take that option. | 0:17:56 | 0:17:59 | |
But the family have been much more on the side of giving it a whirl | 0:17:59 | 0:18:05 | |
to see if we can help. | 0:18:03 | 0:18:05 | |
24 hours later and Muhammed is ready for surgery. | 0:18:19 | 0:18:21 | |
Until surgeons open him up and see the state of his ribs, | 0:18:21 | 0:18:26 | |
they won't know exactly how many they can expand. | 0:18:26 | 0:18:29 | |
Big vessel. | 0:19:17 | 0:19:18 | |
-We cut four at the back. -Four at the back. | 0:19:18 | 0:19:22 | |
Five at the front, that's what we've done before. | 0:19:22 | 0:19:25 | |
But it doesn't really matter where we start, does it? | 0:19:25 | 0:19:28 | |
So I'm just going to move a little bit down towards you. | 0:19:28 | 0:19:31 | |
May I have a blade on here now? | 0:19:31 | 0:19:33 | |
Let's find out where we're going to cut across here. | 0:19:33 | 0:19:35 | |
-We think there, probably, don't we? -Yep. | 0:19:35 | 0:19:37 | |
Down to eight. | 0:19:41 | 0:19:42 | |
There won't be much room, will there? | 0:19:43 | 0:19:46 | |
Gosh, it's tight. | 0:19:47 | 0:19:49 | |
It's amazing they can breathe at all when you put so much force on here. | 0:19:49 | 0:19:53 | |
Diathermy, please. | 0:19:55 | 0:19:56 | |
Go ahead. | 0:19:56 | 0:19:57 | |
So, we've just, having cut those ribs, | 0:19:58 | 0:20:01 | |
and now we've brought them forwards, so this is one rib up | 0:20:01 | 0:20:06 | |
and one rib down, joined together, so if I let it go, it forms an arch. | 0:20:06 | 0:20:12 | |
So it's lifted the whole chest wall by a good two centimetres. | 0:20:12 | 0:20:16 | |
Once Neil Bulstrode can see the expanded ribs, | 0:20:18 | 0:20:21 | |
he can then shape the titanium plates which will hold them together. | 0:20:21 | 0:20:26 | |
That's good. That's going to be great. OK, the clamps, please. | 0:20:32 | 0:20:36 | |
That one, yep. And we need a syringe of saline. | 0:20:36 | 0:20:39 | |
The drill didn't go all the way through the... | 0:20:50 | 0:20:54 | |
This is the eight, please. | 0:20:54 | 0:20:56 | |
DRILL WHIRRS | 0:20:56 | 0:20:58 | |
Eight, please. | 0:21:13 | 0:21:15 | |
Great. | 0:21:16 | 0:21:18 | |
Just check for any... | 0:21:18 | 0:21:20 | |
The titanium plate has screwed in beautifully. | 0:21:20 | 0:21:24 | |
So you can see now, with the four ribs cut in a staggered fashion, | 0:21:25 | 0:21:31 | |
they've now been rejoined to lengthen the rib. | 0:21:31 | 0:21:35 | |
I'd like to do the other ribs, but these are too small. You can't expand everything. | 0:21:36 | 0:21:40 | |
So we get them to stage two and then, | 0:21:40 | 0:21:43 | |
yeah, later on we come back and do the lower ribs | 0:21:43 | 0:21:45 | |
through a separate incision and see how we get on. | 0:21:45 | 0:21:48 | |
And the top ones, we may never be able to do. | 0:21:48 | 0:21:50 | |
I think that's all right. | 0:21:51 | 0:21:53 | |
-If we just stitch the other stuff up, it'll be OK, won't it? -Yeah, yeah. | 0:21:53 | 0:21:56 | |
It has taken one and a half hours to break and expand | 0:22:03 | 0:22:06 | |
the left side of Muhammed's rib cage. | 0:22:06 | 0:22:09 | |
They now have to do the same to the right. | 0:22:09 | 0:22:12 | |
The ribs are very short and small, as you can perhaps see, | 0:22:13 | 0:22:17 | |
so there's not really very much space and it's also rather fragile, | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
so we basically want to get it right first time. | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
But it went very well and as soon as we had enlarged both those ribs, | 0:22:25 | 0:22:29 | |
Anne, the anaesthetist, said that the ventilation | 0:22:29 | 0:22:32 | |
had got enormously better instantly. | 0:22:32 | 0:22:34 | |
So when we double that effect by doing the other side, | 0:22:34 | 0:22:38 | |
it should be greatly improved. | 0:22:38 | 0:22:41 | |
After three hours of surgery, | 0:22:49 | 0:22:51 | |
Muhammed is taken back to intensive care. | 0:22:51 | 0:22:54 | |
He will remain on a ventilator and sedated for the next few days. | 0:22:55 | 0:22:59 | |
His lungs will be monitored round-the-clock | 0:22:59 | 0:23:02 | |
to see if they adapt to his expanded rib cage. | 0:23:02 | 0:23:05 | |
The expansion on both sides went according to plan | 0:23:07 | 0:23:11 | |
and immediately the anaesthetist said there was an improvement | 0:23:11 | 0:23:15 | |
in the ability to ventilate Muhammed, | 0:23:15 | 0:23:18 | |
-so we were really pleased with that. -Yeah, yeah. | 0:23:18 | 0:23:21 | |
-He's doing really well. -That's a really good news, yeah. | 0:23:21 | 0:23:25 | |
-I was really concerned. -Of course. | 0:23:25 | 0:23:27 | |
-But thank God that's gone good, yeah? -Exactly. Exactly. | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
Do you have any other questions? | 0:23:32 | 0:23:34 | |
SHE SPEAKS IN OWN LANGUAGE | 0:23:34 | 0:23:36 | |
Yeah, when we tried feeding him with a bottle, he wouldn't drink before. | 0:23:38 | 0:23:42 | |
-He was coughing a lot. -Right. -Would he still have the same issues? | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
We'll have to see exactly how that goes. | 0:23:46 | 0:23:50 | |
Sometimes we can put another little tube in through his nose | 0:23:50 | 0:23:53 | |
which goes into the stomach and, if necessary, | 0:23:53 | 0:23:56 | |
we can feed him through there temporarily. | 0:23:56 | 0:23:59 | |
-You can tell the difference with the chest already. -Chest, yeah. | 0:24:12 | 0:24:14 | |
You can already see the increase in the size. | 0:24:14 | 0:24:17 | |
And now we just want his lungs to grow into that extra space. | 0:24:20 | 0:24:24 | |
Three days after surgery, | 0:24:56 | 0:24:58 | |
Muhammad's lungs are struggling to expand in his new rib cage. | 0:24:58 | 0:25:01 | |
The ventilation's still not perfect, you know, so there's still | 0:25:03 | 0:25:06 | |
some episodes where the SATs fall and some episodes where it's a bit hard to get air into the lungs, | 0:25:06 | 0:25:12 | |
and also, I guess, he's not quite moving as much air yet | 0:25:12 | 0:25:15 | |
as we thought, but it's only a few days since he had a big operation | 0:25:15 | 0:25:19 | |
and we broke quite a lot of ribs, | 0:25:19 | 0:25:21 | |
so if you can imagine what that would feel like for you or I - | 0:25:21 | 0:25:25 | |
we probably wouldn't want to move much air anyway. | 0:25:25 | 0:25:28 | |
But is that a concern? | 0:25:28 | 0:25:31 | |
I think we are still within the window | 0:25:31 | 0:25:33 | |
of what we, kind of, expect after this. | 0:25:33 | 0:25:36 | |
It does take a while for the lung to spring open | 0:25:36 | 0:25:39 | |
and get used to that new way of having to work. | 0:25:39 | 0:25:41 | |
I think more time has to go by before we can say for sure | 0:25:41 | 0:25:46 | |
how much of a success it's been and what happens now. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
What families in this position have to get to grips with | 0:25:53 | 0:25:56 | |
is that they are part of an experiment | 0:25:56 | 0:25:59 | |
and that we don't know enough to be able to give | 0:25:59 | 0:26:02 | |
the kind of reassurance that we'd be able to give to someone | 0:26:02 | 0:26:05 | |
if we done 100 or 200 or 400 operations which were always the same. | 0:26:05 | 0:26:08 | |
Here we have to make modifications each time we do it | 0:26:08 | 0:26:11 | |
based on what we learned last time and what science has been going on in the background elsewhere. | 0:26:11 | 0:26:16 | |
Everything is subtly different and I can't really give guarantees. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:22 | |
What we have to have is an understanding of uncertainty. | 0:26:22 | 0:26:26 | |
A week after his surgery, Muhammed is transferred back to his Birmingham hospital to recover. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:39 | |
Three months later, his lungs are showing no signs of growth | 0:26:43 | 0:26:47 | |
and his breathing is becoming increasingly difficult. | 0:26:47 | 0:26:51 | |
We've probably got to the end of the road | 0:26:53 | 0:26:56 | |
as far as what we can do for him. | 0:26:56 | 0:26:59 | |
I don't think there's any point in putting him through | 0:26:59 | 0:27:02 | |
another operation to enlarge his chest in any other way | 0:27:02 | 0:27:05 | |
because the lungs have had a trial of survival and failed it. | 0:27:05 | 0:27:08 | |
Doctors in Birmingham have told Muhammed's father | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
they want to take him off life support. | 0:27:14 | 0:27:16 | |
He has asked to speak to Martin Elliott before he can agree | 0:27:16 | 0:27:20 | |
and a conference call has been arranged. | 0:27:20 | 0:27:23 | |
It's very difficult to know how to help the family through this. | 0:27:24 | 0:27:28 | |
There isn't a way. | 0:27:28 | 0:27:30 | |
It's just painful. | 0:27:30 | 0:27:33 | |
-Um, hi, Professor. -Hello. | 0:27:35 | 0:27:37 | |
Yeah. | 0:27:40 | 0:27:41 | |
Well, um, what I said to you was | 0:27:49 | 0:27:52 | |
I didn't know whether the lungs would grow at all | 0:27:52 | 0:27:55 | |
and, to be certain that there's going to be some improvement, | 0:27:55 | 0:27:58 | |
you need a long period of time, but if there's been deterioration in between times | 0:27:58 | 0:28:02 | |
I think that really gives us the answer | 0:28:02 | 0:28:05 | |
that there just simply isn't enough lung | 0:28:05 | 0:28:08 | |
for Muhammed to be able to survive on his own. | 0:28:08 | 0:28:11 | |
OK. | 0:28:13 | 0:28:15 | |
OK. | 0:28:15 | 0:28:16 | |
I'm obviously very sorry that we haven't been able to do more for Muhammed and... | 0:29:24 | 0:29:28 | |
Yeah. | 0:29:43 | 0:29:44 | |
OK, well... | 0:29:46 | 0:29:48 | |
We all send you our best wishes from here. | 0:29:49 | 0:29:53 | |
-Thank you. -Thank you. | 0:29:53 | 0:29:54 | |
-Bye. -Thanks a lot. Cheers. Bye. | 0:29:54 | 0:29:58 | |
HE SIGHS | 0:30:00 | 0:30:03 | |
OK. | 0:30:04 | 0:30:06 | |
Would we do it again? | 0:30:12 | 0:30:15 | |
For the time being, if we accumulate enough patients in this category | 0:30:15 | 0:30:19 | |
to say, "Look, this is never going to work. | 0:30:19 | 0:30:21 | |
"This category of patients are inappropriate for this therapy because of X or Y", | 0:30:21 | 0:30:27 | |
then clearly that would be relevant, but I don't think we're there yet. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:31 | |
We're still trying to find out what X and Y are | 0:30:31 | 0:30:34 | |
that would stop you doing something. | 0:30:34 | 0:30:36 | |
A few months later and another case of Jeune's syndrome | 0:30:42 | 0:30:46 | |
has been transferred from Stepping Hill Hospital to Great Ormond Street. | 0:30:46 | 0:30:49 | |
Joshua Burns Adair, he's five months old now | 0:30:50 | 0:30:53 | |
and has come down for another expansion tomorrow. | 0:30:53 | 0:30:56 | |
He's got Jeune's thoracic dystrophy, a chronic lung disease. | 0:30:56 | 0:31:00 | |
been up to a maximum of 90% oxygen | 0:31:00 | 0:31:02 | |
and he was in 45% when we picked him up. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
That's about that, really, isn't it? | 0:31:05 | 0:31:08 | |
Joshua's condition is critical and despite the dangers, | 0:31:10 | 0:31:13 | |
his parents are eager for the chest expansion. | 0:31:13 | 0:31:16 | |
Surgery is scheduled for tomorrow morning. | 0:31:16 | 0:31:19 | |
After doing everything on the internet, | 0:31:20 | 0:31:22 | |
I brought it up with the doctors and I pushed them to look into it | 0:31:22 | 0:31:26 | |
and it was via, basically, our consultant finding out | 0:31:26 | 0:31:30 | |
that there was actually a surgeon down here | 0:31:30 | 0:31:34 | |
that can do this operation. | 0:31:34 | 0:31:36 | |
-We decided that we wanted to go down every avenue, didn't we? -Yeah. | 0:31:36 | 0:31:40 | |
To see that we knew if anything did happen to Joshua, | 0:31:40 | 0:31:44 | |
we'd done everything we could. | 0:31:44 | 0:31:46 | |
So this is basically our only option to give him a better life, | 0:31:46 | 0:31:51 | |
otherwise...he'll die. | 0:31:51 | 0:31:55 | |
ALARM WAILS | 0:31:55 | 0:31:57 | |
Whilst Joshua is being transferred from the ambulance ventilator | 0:31:57 | 0:32:02 | |
to one on intensive care, his heart stops beating. | 0:32:02 | 0:32:05 | |
It takes two minutes to revive him. | 0:32:05 | 0:32:07 | |
The operation is cancelled | 0:32:10 | 0:32:12 | |
and his parents are left waiting for the surgery to be rescheduled. | 0:32:12 | 0:32:16 | |
The way they've been speaking for the last month when we had telephone conversations, | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
their hopes are very high we can fix him, even though | 0:32:23 | 0:32:27 | |
they have been spoken to and they know that this is experimental. | 0:32:27 | 0:32:30 | |
But Joshua is different now than he was two days ago and I think | 0:32:30 | 0:32:33 | |
if he doesn't get back to his transfer settings | 0:32:33 | 0:32:38 | |
then the surgery is not an option and we have to go down that avenue. | 0:32:38 | 0:32:43 | |
The issue for us and the reason that we're isolated | 0:32:43 | 0:32:47 | |
is that the CO2 is all over the place | 0:32:47 | 0:32:49 | |
and ultimately that's not good for the lungs | 0:32:49 | 0:32:51 | |
and it's not going to be good for multiple procedures | 0:32:51 | 0:32:54 | |
so I would think it would be daft to operate in the next day. | 0:32:54 | 0:32:59 | |
Yeah, I mean, I would just say do we, | 0:32:59 | 0:33:01 | |
after we've got through this next 48 hours, | 0:33:01 | 0:33:03 | |
see if we can optimise him as much as we can | 0:33:03 | 0:33:06 | |
and then we know where we are. | 0:33:06 | 0:33:08 | |
We should then reappraise whether we should actually offer surgery or not. | 0:33:08 | 0:33:12 | |
I think we just need to wait until we've got that. | 0:33:12 | 0:33:14 | |
When he's ready for a general anaesthetic. | 0:33:14 | 0:33:16 | |
I'm not sure what we can do at this stage. | 0:33:16 | 0:33:18 | |
He's at the same ventilation as when he came over to us here. | 0:33:26 | 0:33:32 | |
If he can achieve that then there's a possibility that he could do the surgery, | 0:33:32 | 0:33:37 | |
but if not, surgery may not be his best option. | 0:33:37 | 0:33:41 | |
Yeah. | 0:33:44 | 0:33:46 | |
So what would that mean then? It would just be a matter of him... | 0:33:50 | 0:33:54 | |
-Being left to his own, sort of, agenda, as such? -Yes. -Until they...? | 0:33:56 | 0:34:02 | |
Until, yes, he can't sustain himself any more. | 0:34:02 | 0:34:05 | |
You know, whenever you have any patient, | 0:34:13 | 0:34:16 | |
it's trying to make the right decision | 0:34:16 | 0:34:18 | |
and when they are so severe... | 0:34:18 | 0:34:21 | |
..it... Possibly the right decision is not to operate on them | 0:34:23 | 0:34:27 | |
and I think if Joshua stays in his current state | 0:34:27 | 0:34:31 | |
that that'll be our answer. | 0:34:31 | 0:34:34 | |
However, we're all optimistic people | 0:34:34 | 0:34:37 | |
that want to do things to try and help, | 0:34:37 | 0:34:40 | |
but sometimes we have to step back | 0:34:40 | 0:34:43 | |
and admit that maybe we cannot help them. | 0:34:43 | 0:34:47 | |
Always wore a red cloak with a warm hood | 0:34:47 | 0:34:50 | |
and so she was called Little Red Riding Hood. | 0:34:50 | 0:34:53 | |
One day she decided to visit her granny who lived some way | 0:34:53 | 0:34:56 | |
from the woodcutter's cottage. | 0:34:56 | 0:34:58 | |
She took a basket with a cake her mother had baked and set off. | 0:34:58 | 0:35:02 | |
Now, the last thing her mother had said to Little Red Riding Hood was, | 0:35:02 | 0:35:06 | |
"Don't leave the path and don't talk to any strangers." | 0:35:06 | 0:35:10 | |
I'm afraid Little Red Riding Hood was not really listening. | 0:35:10 | 0:35:14 | |
48 hours later and Joshua's oxygen levels have improved. | 0:35:21 | 0:35:25 | |
I guess the key discussion for us is | 0:35:29 | 0:35:32 | |
he's improved, has he improved to the point we can do surgery? | 0:35:32 | 0:35:36 | |
Is this our window for surgery and if we wait are going to miss that? | 0:35:36 | 0:35:40 | |
I am not convinced that there's potential to improve an awful lot further, | 0:35:40 | 0:35:45 | |
so if we are going to wait a few more days, | 0:35:45 | 0:35:48 | |
it's not clear to me exactly what we are waiting for, | 0:35:48 | 0:35:51 | |
because things may not get much better. | 0:35:51 | 0:35:53 | |
I completely agree that this may be the window | 0:35:53 | 0:35:56 | |
that we are actually getting | 0:35:56 | 0:35:57 | |
for treating Joshua in the right direction, | 0:35:57 | 0:35:59 | |
but if anything can be done, probably, | 0:35:59 | 0:36:02 | |
this is the window we need to look at for doing this expansion. | 0:36:02 | 0:36:05 | |
I think, you know, we would have to have some serious discussion | 0:36:05 | 0:36:09 | |
with the family that the risk is he could die on the table, couldn't he? | 0:36:09 | 0:36:14 | |
That is a very real possibility as well. | 0:36:14 | 0:36:16 | |
You know, we should continue to also say | 0:36:16 | 0:36:19 | |
that if they felt that they didn't want to go down this route | 0:36:19 | 0:36:23 | |
given the risks now that we would fully support them in that decision as well. | 0:36:23 | 0:36:27 | |
They have to know that he has about a one in two chance of coming through. | 0:36:27 | 0:36:32 | |
You're semi-detached from this, Ruth. | 0:36:32 | 0:36:35 | |
-Well, I am. -Are you disturbed by it? -Yes, to be honest. | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
I've just come into this and don't really know the case, | 0:36:37 | 0:36:42 | |
but I have to say I am kind of taken aback about going forward | 0:36:42 | 0:36:46 | |
for such dramatic surgery with a risk of 50%. | 0:36:46 | 0:36:49 | |
That's... And I am detached. You know, I don't know the child. | 0:36:49 | 0:36:53 | |
It's a good point. On the other side of the coin is, sort of, | 0:36:53 | 0:36:58 | |
the alternative is 100% chance of death within a year probably. | 0:36:58 | 0:37:02 | |
I'd be very surprised if this child was alive in six months, even, | 0:37:03 | 0:37:06 | |
if he didn't have surgery. | 0:37:06 | 0:37:09 | |
And so that's the... The risk is in that context. | 0:37:09 | 0:37:15 | |
That, sort of, to me... On the one hand, is this whole thing crazy? | 0:37:15 | 0:37:21 | |
This is right at the edge of what I feel we're fully comfortable with doing. | 0:37:22 | 0:37:27 | |
Really right at the edge of it and... | 0:37:27 | 0:37:30 | |
I've brought Ruth, our trainee, along today - it's clear you feel exactly the same. | 0:37:31 | 0:37:34 | |
Or maybe it's over your edge. So, I'll be honest about it, | 0:37:34 | 0:37:37 | |
but as long as the parents are absolutely clear | 0:37:37 | 0:37:40 | |
that this is as far as, ethically, we feel able to go | 0:37:40 | 0:37:43 | |
and they understand how big the risks are, then...well, OK. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
In the last 24 hours, we've turned the ventilator down some more | 0:37:53 | 0:37:58 | |
and so that's quite a lot more encouraging | 0:37:58 | 0:38:01 | |
and I personally feel a lot more comforted seeing that coming down. | 0:38:01 | 0:38:05 | |
Now, that doesn't by any means mean | 0:38:05 | 0:38:07 | |
that means we're going to sail through this procedure, but I think... | 0:38:07 | 0:38:13 | |
I get the feeling we're at the level, | 0:38:13 | 0:38:15 | |
the best we could have hoped for | 0:38:15 | 0:38:17 | |
So I think we've got to a point | 0:38:17 | 0:38:20 | |
where if we're going to do it, | 0:38:20 | 0:38:22 | |
probably now is the best time we can. | 0:38:22 | 0:38:25 | |
There are some risks that we do not know. | 0:38:26 | 0:38:29 | |
As I said, the experience on the surgery's quite dangerous. | 0:38:29 | 0:38:32 | |
The known risks are there are chances which are very high | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
that he will not come through, or he will not make it after surgery alive. | 0:38:35 | 0:38:40 | |
Other risks, which we know definitely, | 0:38:40 | 0:38:42 | |
are Joshua will need multiple surgeries | 0:38:42 | 0:38:45 | |
and at any stage he may fail to cope with all these interventions. We need to be aware of that. | 0:38:45 | 0:38:50 | |
Our own experience, we have lost two children. | 0:38:51 | 0:38:55 | |
When we say 50%, what we're saying is it's very high, you know? | 0:38:55 | 0:38:59 | |
It means if you took two children into the operating theatre, | 0:38:59 | 0:39:03 | |
only one of the children would come back out, | 0:39:03 | 0:39:06 | |
but the other thing that people felt we should also just discuss | 0:39:06 | 0:39:11 | |
is if things sadly go wrong in theatre, | 0:39:11 | 0:39:14 | |
would you want to come into theatre at that point? | 0:39:14 | 0:39:17 | |
We would talk to you at that time. But... | 0:39:17 | 0:39:20 | |
I'd rather... I don't want to see... I mean, obviously... | 0:39:20 | 0:39:23 | |
Well, I don't know. I don't know. Ask me that question, "If." | 0:39:23 | 0:39:27 | |
It's one to think about. I probably would. | 0:39:27 | 0:39:30 | |
Yeah, I don't know. I can't say. | 0:39:30 | 0:39:32 | |
On one hand, I don't want to take you there | 0:39:32 | 0:39:34 | |
because we hope we're going to get through, | 0:39:34 | 0:39:36 | |
but it's just something to think about. | 0:39:36 | 0:39:39 | |
All I can say... We'll cross that bridge if we come to it. | 0:39:39 | 0:39:43 | |
Yeah. Fair enough. | 0:39:43 | 0:39:45 | |
It was extremely difficult for me to put this in words to them, but it's my duty to. | 0:39:56 | 0:40:01 | |
You'll really be able to transfer your humane abilities | 0:40:01 | 0:40:05 | |
in the discussion process, convey them to parents, | 0:40:05 | 0:40:08 | |
help them to make a decision, but once the decision's made, | 0:40:08 | 0:40:11 | |
you should be strong enough to carry on. | 0:40:11 | 0:40:13 | |
There's no backing out. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:15 | |
My brave little soldier. Aren't you? | 0:40:21 | 0:40:24 | |
You know, to your mother, you're everything in the world. | 0:40:24 | 0:40:27 | |
You show them. Yeah? You show 'em. | 0:40:32 | 0:40:37 | |
This is Joshua Burns Adair. | 0:40:44 | 0:40:47 | |
Consented for lateral chest-expansion on both sides with metallic implants. | 0:40:47 | 0:40:51 | |
15. | 0:40:53 | 0:40:55 | |
Bone cutter. | 0:40:59 | 0:41:01 | |
Uh, the guide. The drill. | 0:41:07 | 0:41:10 | |
DRILL WHINES | 0:41:14 | 0:41:17 | |
-Everything has gone on well. -It has? | 0:41:50 | 0:41:51 | |
Everything has gone on well and he is better. | 0:41:51 | 0:41:55 | |
Come. Joshua is here. | 0:41:55 | 0:41:58 | |
SHE SOBS | 0:42:03 | 0:42:05 | |
-Thank you very much. -Thank you, don't worry. | 0:42:08 | 0:42:12 | |
-Thank you. -A pleasure. | 0:42:12 | 0:42:14 | |
You can see that the chest is slightly wider | 0:42:22 | 0:42:25 | |
than how it was before. So far, so good. | 0:42:25 | 0:42:27 | |
We have crossed the major part of the bridge, | 0:42:27 | 0:42:31 | |
we still have some more time to go, but at least so far, we're OK. | 0:42:31 | 0:42:34 | |
A little fighter, right enough. | 0:42:49 | 0:42:51 | |
Well, touch wood, wherever there is any, | 0:42:54 | 0:42:57 | |
that everything's going OK at the moment | 0:42:57 | 0:43:01 | |
and hopefully going home today. | 0:43:01 | 0:43:05 | |
To Manchester. How does that sound, Mister? | 0:43:05 | 0:43:09 | |
A little fighter, right enough. | 0:43:09 | 0:43:10 | |
It's not over yet, so we've still got a long, long way to go with him, but... | 0:43:10 | 0:43:14 | |
Yeah, there is a long way, but he's here at the moment, he's doing OK | 0:43:14 | 0:43:19 | |
and just fingers crossed and just hope and pray every day | 0:43:19 | 0:43:21 | |
and just take each day as it comes, cos it is going to be | 0:43:21 | 0:43:25 | |
a long journey, but that's what we're prepared for. | 0:43:25 | 0:43:29 | |
-He's sneaking about. -Hey, what's up? | 0:43:29 | 0:43:32 | |
Sh. | 0:43:32 | 0:43:34 | |
Joshua is being transferred back to his local hospital | 0:43:43 | 0:43:46 | |
where he will stay to recuperate. | 0:43:46 | 0:43:48 | |
His lungs are adapting well and growing into the space surgeons created in his chest, | 0:43:50 | 0:43:55 | |
but they will have to monitor him closely over the months to come. | 0:43:55 | 0:43:58 | |
Shauna is returning to Great Ormond Street from Middlesbrough. | 0:44:20 | 0:44:23 | |
It's four months since the ethics committee's discussion about Shauna's operation. | 0:44:25 | 0:44:30 | |
Her new windpipe is ready and surgery is scheduled for tomorrow. | 0:44:30 | 0:44:35 | |
So the two primary risks are getting in | 0:44:37 | 0:44:40 | |
and then sorting out how well the graft takes. | 0:44:40 | 0:44:45 | |
That does include a risk to life, as you know. | 0:44:45 | 0:44:48 | |
But I think she's at greater risk not having it done than having it done. | 0:44:50 | 0:44:54 | |
It's really difficult to put numbers on this | 0:44:54 | 0:44:56 | |
when we've only done such a small amount, | 0:44:56 | 0:44:58 | |
but, again, I think you said you understand that before. | 0:44:58 | 0:45:01 | |
I do, yeah. | 0:45:01 | 0:45:03 | |
I know you've thought about this a lot, Shauna, as well. You... | 0:45:03 | 0:45:08 | |
You know that we think we can help you with this, but we're not 100 per cent sure. | 0:45:08 | 0:45:12 | |
We think we can make it better. Last time we spoke you are up for that. | 0:45:12 | 0:45:16 | |
-Yeah. -Is that still the case? -Yeah. | 0:45:16 | 0:45:20 | |
OK. I'm sure you've talked about it a lot. | 0:45:22 | 0:45:24 | |
-Are you looking forward to it? -I think she got a bit scared at the weekend and that, | 0:45:26 | 0:45:30 | |
but we've talked, haven't we? | 0:45:30 | 0:45:33 | |
-You're a brave girl. -Very brave. | 0:45:33 | 0:45:37 | |
Tomorrow will be dreadful. | 0:45:46 | 0:45:48 | |
It will, it'll be dreadful, but she'll get through it. | 0:45:50 | 0:45:53 | |
I know she will. | 0:45:53 | 0:45:55 | |
She's been through a lot, so I know she'll get through - | 0:45:55 | 0:45:58 | |
well, I'm hoping she'll get through it, but I think she will. | 0:45:58 | 0:46:03 | |
It's the day of Shauna's operation. | 0:46:09 | 0:46:11 | |
A new trachea is being grown in a controlled environment | 0:46:11 | 0:46:14 | |
called a bio reactor, three miles away at the Royal Free Hospital. | 0:46:14 | 0:46:18 | |
It can only survive outside of the laboratory for an hour. | 0:46:19 | 0:46:24 | |
Its arrival at Great Ormond Street must be timed with the removal of her old trachea. | 0:46:24 | 0:46:28 | |
When someone's had as many operations as Shauna's had before, | 0:46:30 | 0:46:33 | |
all the surfaces stick together and it's very... | 0:46:33 | 0:46:38 | |
You have to do a bit of work to separate those surfaces | 0:46:38 | 0:46:41 | |
to make sure you can see all the bits that you need. | 0:46:41 | 0:46:43 | |
The other thing that makes getting into her chest difficult | 0:46:43 | 0:46:47 | |
is that she only has one lung, | 0:46:47 | 0:46:49 | |
so everything... Her heart is shifted over to the side without the lung, | 0:46:49 | 0:46:55 | |
so all the blood vessels which would normally be coming up | 0:46:55 | 0:46:58 | |
in nice, neat little arcs in the middle of the chest | 0:46:58 | 0:47:00 | |
are actually off to one side and curved in the wrong place, | 0:47:00 | 0:47:03 | |
but the point of no return will be when we remove the airway. | 0:47:03 | 0:47:07 | |
We have to put something in its place to get air to go | 0:47:07 | 0:47:11 | |
from the upper part of her body to the lung. | 0:47:11 | 0:47:14 | |
And if, for any reason, there's a disaster at that point, | 0:47:14 | 0:47:17 | |
then we would be in trouble. | 0:47:17 | 0:47:19 | |
We're going to have to move this lung | 0:47:48 | 0:47:50 | |
-to get to the trachea, aren't we? -Yes, exactly. | 0:47:50 | 0:47:53 | |
-That's the trachea, is it? -Yes. | 0:47:53 | 0:47:56 | |
-You can see right down to the trachea. -Feel it. It's like... -Rock. | 0:47:56 | 0:48:00 | |
If that's the trachea... Jesus Christ. | 0:48:00 | 0:48:02 | |
-Martin, the trachea is like a rock. It's like... -Is it? | 0:48:03 | 0:48:07 | |
-Well, it feels like the spine. -Really? My god. | 0:48:09 | 0:48:12 | |
-I thought we were on the spine. -My god. | 0:48:12 | 0:48:14 | |
We've also got to free up the top | 0:48:17 | 0:48:19 | |
and there's a whole other area stuck down here under the aorta, | 0:48:19 | 0:48:23 | |
so the more of that we can free, maybe we can get a better go at it. | 0:48:23 | 0:48:26 | |
-Scissors, please. -Hand them back to me. | 0:48:26 | 0:48:29 | |
It's just not very visible what we're doing. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
Scissors, please. | 0:48:35 | 0:48:36 | |
The Royal Free Hospital is on stand-by to transfer the new trachea, | 0:48:43 | 0:48:47 | |
but surgery is already running two hours behind. | 0:48:47 | 0:48:51 | |
Oh, hi, Mark. Yeah, it's Martin here. | 0:48:55 | 0:48:57 | |
Martin Elliott's struggling a little bit, well, quite a lot really. | 0:48:57 | 0:49:02 | |
He says it's the most difficult dissection he's ever done, | 0:49:02 | 0:49:05 | |
which is saying something for a man of his experience | 0:49:05 | 0:49:09 | |
and the lumen is absolutely minuscule. | 0:49:09 | 0:49:11 | |
It's a miracle she's been able to breathe. | 0:49:11 | 0:49:14 | |
He thinks we're not going to be sending for the graft | 0:49:15 | 0:49:18 | |
for another hour or so, I'm afraid. | 0:49:18 | 0:49:20 | |
That should be the track for the tracheostomy there. | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
-Can you feel it? -Well, I can see it, actually. -Oh. | 0:49:26 | 0:49:28 | |
After three hours of dissection, Martin has finally exposed | 0:49:30 | 0:49:33 | |
the narrow section of trachea which needs to be replaced. | 0:49:33 | 0:49:37 | |
I think we have to go into bypass next. | 0:49:38 | 0:49:41 | |
The vein is open, Nigel. | 0:49:41 | 0:49:44 | |
Drain. Thank you. There's a little bubble. | 0:49:44 | 0:49:48 | |
A bypass machine will pump oxygenated blood round Shauna's body. | 0:49:49 | 0:49:55 | |
As surgeons remove the trachea, she will not be able to breathe. | 0:49:55 | 0:49:58 | |
Hold those, please. | 0:50:00 | 0:50:03 | |
Somebody hold... Colin? Colin? That's it. | 0:50:03 | 0:50:06 | |
Hold both together, hold both. Really important. | 0:50:06 | 0:50:09 | |
Lift up the suture. | 0:50:09 | 0:50:11 | |
No, keep the suture tense. | 0:50:11 | 0:50:13 | |
Ah. Cramp. | 0:50:14 | 0:50:15 | |
OK. Right, let's get our breath back and have a little stretch | 0:50:18 | 0:50:21 | |
and calm down and we'll be OK. | 0:50:21 | 0:50:23 | |
-Full flow, did you say? -Four hours into the operation | 0:50:25 | 0:50:28 | |
and Martin has removed most of the old trachea. | 0:50:28 | 0:50:31 | |
I think we need to call them. | 0:50:34 | 0:50:35 | |
OK, we have the call, please, to the Royal Free. | 0:50:37 | 0:50:41 | |
The new trachea can only survive outside the bio reactor | 0:51:00 | 0:51:03 | |
for an hour before it will start to degrade. | 0:51:03 | 0:51:06 | |
This is probably the best bit of her trachea. | 0:51:42 | 0:51:45 | |
You can see that it's really, really, really thick | 0:51:45 | 0:51:48 | |
and there's lots of calcium, and this is the widest part of it. | 0:51:48 | 0:51:53 | |
It should be much thinner-walled | 0:51:53 | 0:51:55 | |
and the hole, the lumen inside, | 0:51:55 | 0:51:58 | |
should be as big as the outside of this. | 0:51:58 | 0:52:01 | |
And this is the best bit. It was very, very stuck. | 0:52:01 | 0:52:03 | |
SIREN WAILS | 0:52:19 | 0:52:22 | |
So now we want to make sure there's nothing sharp | 0:52:35 | 0:52:38 | |
on the back of there and that there's room for the new graft. | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
If you put your finger behind the aorta | 0:52:43 | 0:52:44 | |
and you will feel masses of dense, fibrous tissue. | 0:52:44 | 0:52:48 | |
We have to make sure there's enough space. | 0:52:49 | 0:52:51 | |
What we can't have is the thing kinked by rigid tissue. | 0:52:51 | 0:52:54 | |
'Arriving at destination on right.' | 0:53:06 | 0:53:09 | |
It takes half an hour for the trachea to arrive at Great Ormond Street. | 0:53:13 | 0:53:18 | |
They now have another 30 minutes to transplant it in an optimum condition. | 0:53:18 | 0:53:22 | |
We are ready for the graft. | 0:53:44 | 0:53:47 | |
This is the top. Yeah? | 0:53:47 | 0:53:51 | |
It's just beautiful. | 0:53:58 | 0:54:00 | |
The lungs are coming up beautifully and there's no air leak at all. | 0:54:14 | 0:54:19 | |
Can you see inside? There's a join there we've made with stitches. | 0:54:19 | 0:54:22 | |
After eight hours of surgery, Shauna is off bypass | 0:54:25 | 0:54:28 | |
and breathing through her new trachea. | 0:54:28 | 0:54:31 | |
Can I just say while everybody's having a quiet moment, | 0:54:33 | 0:54:36 | |
thank you very much, everybody - you've worked your butts off today | 0:54:36 | 0:54:39 | |
and it's been really appreciated. Really, really nice. Thank you. | 0:54:39 | 0:54:42 | |
Oh, you're brave, Shauna. | 0:55:02 | 0:55:04 | |
-Thank you. -Thank you very much. -Take care. Sleep well. -Thank you. | 0:55:10 | 0:55:16 | |
Two weeks after her surgery, and Shauna is well enough | 0:55:32 | 0:55:36 | |
to go back to Leeds hospital where she will begin her rehabilitation. | 0:55:36 | 0:55:39 | |
More emergency stuff. | 0:55:39 | 0:55:41 | |
Can you take care of that, Shauna? For the way down, yeah? | 0:55:41 | 0:55:45 | |
OK. | 0:55:45 | 0:55:47 | |
Let's rock and roll it, OK? | 0:55:47 | 0:55:50 | |
Bye, Richie. | 0:55:54 | 0:55:56 | |
Whilst her transplant has so far been successful, | 0:55:58 | 0:56:01 | |
the next few weeks will be critical. | 0:56:01 | 0:56:04 | |
It's just a tragedy. | 0:56:37 | 0:56:39 | |
I've feel so sorry for Shauna's family and for her. | 0:56:39 | 0:56:42 | |
Do you regret doing it? | 0:56:42 | 0:56:45 | |
Um, no, I don't regret doing it | 0:56:46 | 0:56:47 | |
because we knew from what was happening to Shauna beforehand | 0:56:47 | 0:56:51 | |
that she'd reached the end of conventional therapy. | 0:56:51 | 0:56:54 | |
You ask yourself this sort of thing all the time if something bad happens, | 0:56:56 | 0:57:00 | |
but if you don't try for that individual patient, | 0:57:00 | 0:57:04 | |
then you can make no progress. | 0:57:04 | 0:57:06 | |
Every patient who survives is standing on the shoulders of people who didn't. | 0:57:06 | 0:57:12 | |
Every operation we do learns from the experience of the previous one. | 0:57:12 | 0:57:16 | |
The more you do, the better you get. | 0:57:16 | 0:57:19 | |
Each of those sounds like a soundbite, | 0:57:20 | 0:57:24 | |
but they are all true. | 0:57:24 | 0:57:27 | |
The fundamental core principle of this is | 0:57:27 | 0:57:31 | |
is this the right general strategy to develop? | 0:57:31 | 0:57:35 | |
I don't think we have any doubts of that. We've talked about it a lot. | 0:57:35 | 0:57:39 | |
Should we abandon the sort of therapy or carry on? | 0:57:39 | 0:57:43 | |
And we are, as a group, convinced that we should carry on. | 0:57:43 | 0:57:50 | |
Subtitles by Red Bee Media Ltd | 0:58:22 | 0:58:25 |