Episode 1 Helicopter Heroes


Episode 1

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Transcript


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RADIO: '..CareFlight... Fall from a tree.'

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It's one of the most beautiful but dangerous places on earth...

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My name's Helen. I'm one of the doctors. Any pain in there?

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Any teeth loose or anything like that?

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..and when Australians call out the flying doctor...

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Coming round.

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..they're likely to be British,

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and so is the pilot, paramedic and crew men.

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We'll see lots of sharks, 200, 300 metres out.

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I think they get the idea when we go like that.

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'Lifesaver 24...'

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'They said they got the bends from coming up too quickly.'

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From shark attacks on surfing beaches

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to exploding barbecues in the Sydney suburbs,

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these are the Brits who can make the difference between life and death

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down under.

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James Milligan is an NHS consultant

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working at Leeds General Infirmary.

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How's that tummy pain now?

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Now, like hundreds of medics

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-every year, he's swapping rainy Britain...

-It's wet.

-It is wet.

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..for a life in the sun.

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We're living right by the ocean, it's a beautiful spot,

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work's nice and relaxed, the atmosphere's great -

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life probably couldn't be much better.

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But it's a place where the nearest hospital can be 200 miles away

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and the wildlife can kill you.

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Are you ready? Can I listen to your heart?

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Welcome to one of the world's most extreme health services.

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Today the flying medics come to the aid of a surfer who's been

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smashed against the rocks...

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Treachery Beach, woman dumped in the surf - head injuries.

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..a famous Aboriginal singer with kidney failure needs

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air-lifting to hospital...

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He looks, certainly, on that ECG, all over the place.

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..and an adventurous teenager is injured falling from a tree.

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Someone's waving at us down here.

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Oh yes, there it is. They're all waving down there.

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It's the hottest summer for decades on the Australian coast.

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In Sydney they've just recorded the hottest day since records began.

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Not surprisingly, people are flocking to the water to cool down.

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It's 48 degrees Celsius, or 118 degrees Fahrenheit,

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and former Royal Navy officer Mike de Winton is sweating it out

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in his flying kit.

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Mike is the chief pilot of the rescue helicopter

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based at Newcastle, 100 miles North of Sydney.

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Treachery Beach, woman dumped in the surf - head injuries.

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Basically, we're on call here 24/7,

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so unfortunately as chief pilot, my job is to wait for the phone to ring

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to come out and sort another problem out.

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CREW TALK OVER RADIO

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It looks nice and clear, which is good.

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Yeah, it's 48 degrees on the pad in the aircraft.

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So the air-con's not going to work very well.

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Today Westpac 2 has been scrambled to a remote beach north of

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Newcastle. Surfing accidents are common on this coast,

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especially among foreign holidaymakers.

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All we've got on this is a girl with a neck injury,

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maybe a head injury, from being dumped on a rock by the wave.

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It won't be a very big wave.

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That is why Leggy reckons it's either an English tourist or a Swedish...

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Local paramedics have reached the patient.

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They're going to drive her to a nearby bowling club where

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the helicopter can land more easily.

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Just as soon as we land, can you guys hop out?

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Cos there's normally a lot of people there, just to access safety.

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Yep, copy.

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VOICES MUFFLED OVER RADIO

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It's going to be a steep descent down because we're going to

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drop down into that area.

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Extreme heat makes handling a helicopter difficult.

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It reduces the power of the engines and creates turbulence,

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especially close to the ground.

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Yeah, that's it. That's a bit more. That's a bit better.

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-MUFFLED VOICE ON RADIO

-..on the left-hand side.

-Yep.

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The aircraft's working close to its limits here, and also you can tell by

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the weather here, it's very, very windy and quite gusty, which makes it

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difficult, especially around the high trees,

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so it's a bit of a challenge, but you get used to it.

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We're going to assess the patient, who I believe is a 24-year-old

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female with spinal injuries from being dumped in the surf.

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So, medically, if she has neurological deficits related to

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a spinal injury, then we can fly to a more spinal-specific hospital

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in Sydney if we need to - Royal North Shore Hospital -

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for advanced specialist treatment.

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Holidaymaker Dominique Doyle was surfing with her family

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when she was hurled onto rocks by a freak wave.

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She has a nasty head injury, but its the pain in her neck,

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shoulder and back that's most concerning the paramedics.

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Can you grab both my hands for me and give them a squeeze?

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Fantastic. All right, good. Can you feel both your hands OK?

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All right. I understand you'd be nervous. That's fine.

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That's normal, OK?

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'We work as a team. That's the reason we succeed -

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'because we are a team when we fly.

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'That linked in with the paramedics doing their job

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'and then the hospital doing their job. That makes the whole thing

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'part of that...you know, final result.'

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In the helicopter it's really noisy and it's a little bit hot,

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so the way we're going to communicating is I'm going to be

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sitting right next to you and I'm going to give you a tap

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every now and then, and give me a thumbs-up if everything's all right.

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It's in Australia's enormous open spaces that air ambulances

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come into their own.

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For us to drive from here all the way down to Newcastle is quite

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a treacherous drive.

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It's bumpy, hilly, and the roads aren't very good at all,

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so for her it's not going to be a good outcome

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if we have to go all that way,

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thinking that she might have some major injuries.

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That's why we initiate the helicopter.

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MUFFLED VOICE OVER RADIO

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Dominique's being flown direct

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to the John Hunter regional trauma centre in Newcastle,

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100 miles North of Sydney.

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She's still complaining of pain in her head, neck and shoulder.

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They're what we call possible distracting injuries,

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that might be masking something more serious with her central

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cervical spine, which is an important area not to damage,

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so we're taking all the precautions,

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but she is certainly within good parameters with her blood

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pressure and heart rate, and we'll just continue to monitor her.

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She is lucky, because this kind of injury can cause paraplegia

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and worse spinal injuries.

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For British pilot Mike, that's another hour's flying added

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to the 10,000 already in his log book.

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The distances between major centres in Australia, together with

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year-round better weather, mean pilots down under spend more

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time in the air than most of their counterparts in the UK.

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I'd say that this is closest to the military-style flying,

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without being shot at.

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We're a small cog in a big wheel and the results say it themselves -

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we get the patients to hospital on time, and treated well.

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And today's patient, Dominique, got all the tests and scans

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she needed at John Hunter Hospital.

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She's now back working as a lawyer,

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although she says she doesn't plan on surfing again for a while.

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For some, the true scale of Austraila's vast expanse

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only really becomes apparent when they try to cross it by land.

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If you drove it non-stop, it would take you two days

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to get from Sydney in the south-east to Darwin in the north.

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In the bushlands of the Northern Territory which surround Darwin,

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the huge distances and sparse population

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mean the majority of the emergency medical transport is done by air.

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The countryside, particularly when you see it from the plane,

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is absolutely outstanding, and when I was first arrived I was really,

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really surprised at how green it actually was.

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Dr Sarah McNeilly is an anaesthetist

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and intensive care trainee from London.

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She's working in Australia for a year before returning to the UK.

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Medicine out here is relatively similar within a hospital,

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and then, obviously, you can fairly easily get a retrieval job out here,

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which are often much harder to get at home.

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Today Dr Sarah and the team have taken a call about a diabetic man

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with kidney failure, who's suffering complications.

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CareFlight 22. Request taxi. Two nine.

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The majority of our patients are the indigenous population,

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and they have quite unique health issues.

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A lot of the diseases that you do see - for example, diabetes,

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kidney failure, heart disease - seem to happen here also

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but in much younger patients.

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It turns out the patient she's going to see is a famous musician.

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Mandawuy Yunupingu is the lead singer of the indigenous band

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Yothu Yindi.

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SINGS IN NATIVE LANGUAGE

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Just days ago, Mandawuy received

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a lifetime achievement award at the ARIAs,

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which is the Australian version of the BRIT Awards.

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Mandawuy lives in an Aboriginal community on the Gove Peninsula.

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It's 400 miles away from Darwin, and during the wet season,

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which lasts from November to April, the only way to get there is by air.

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Lovely. Good man.

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At Gove District Hospital, Mandawuy Yunupingu

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and his wife have been waiting for the CareFlight team.

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Can I have a wee look at you? Is that all right? Can I examine you?

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Is that OK? Let me just pop this across for a second.

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So how long have you been feeling crook?

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This morning.

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Just since this morning? You were OK yesterday?

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And I believe I'm treating a celebrity - is that right?

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And you felt OK when you were having dialysis, or not so good then?

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-I felt all right.

-You felt all right then.

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We've had a little look at the condition of our patient over here,

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and feel that it's stable enough to move him as he is.

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It's a very small world up here

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You just never know who you might come across, but yeah,

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it's one of the delights of working up here.

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It's very interesting.

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-They're quite different, aren't they?

-They are.

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And he looks, certainly on that ECG, all over the place.

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This gentleman has an infection

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and we're not entirely sure where at the moment.

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His heart rate's going quite fast and it's quite irregular,

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which often makes monitoring his blood pressure with the cuff -

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particularly moving in the plane and the ambulance -

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quite difficult, so we're going to put a drip in the artery in his

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wrist, which will monitor his blood pressure continuously,

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and that just gives me better control and better idea

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of what's happening as we're moving him back to Darwin.

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And can you bend your hand back for me? That's fabulous.

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Perfect position.

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Oh, just try and keep really still for me.

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Is it all right if I just help you try and stay still there?

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That's it. This is going to sting a bit. Well done.

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-Sorry, I know this is...

-That's totally numb after this - all right?

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Diabetes and kidney failure are common problems

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in Aboriginal communities.

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We can just monitor this very carefully, in this one,

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and also give certain drugs in case he needs it.

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OK.

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..down,

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while wife keeps you in check.

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Which one?

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Second one.

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Second one.

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THEY LAUGH

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I think the doctors here have discussed his microbiology,

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antibiotics, with the guys in Darwin,

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because he's a little bit complicated,

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and he's had all the antibiotics that have been suggested

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and he's got two lines in and we were going to bring him back

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like that.

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-Thank you very much for your help, guys.

-Bye-bye.

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Mandawuy and his wife, Yalmay, have just come back

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from the ARIA Music Awards in Sydney,

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where he gave a speech about the devastating effects of his illness.

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My husband's band, Yothu Yindi,

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they got inducted to the Hall of Fame.

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It was really a proud moment for the band and their family.

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'He's in a fluid restriction.

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'He loves his tea. He likes drinking tea.

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I can't make him stop drinking tea.

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He's got to...

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He's got to do it himself.

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The indigenous population is one of the oldest cultures in the world,

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so, obviously, they have this enormous background and heritage

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that I didn't know the huge amount about before coming out here

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and working with patients like that, and it's actually

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really interesting.

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Mandawuy's kidney failure means he has to have five hours of dialysis

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three times a week or he'll die.

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His condition also leaves him

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vulnerable to infections that other people might just shake off.

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His recent trip to the ARIA Awards may have been too much for him.

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He's not looking too bad, actually.

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He, obviously, has got a bit of infection somewhere,

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so he'll need some tests and investigations to see

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if we can find out where that infection is.

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His heart rate has settled down with some treatment, and I think

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overall he's looking a little bit better and feeling a bit better.

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Mandawuy will have to stay in hospital

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while those tests are completed, but whatever they reveal,

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he says he wants to get back home as soon as he can.

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In Sydney, the CareFlight team is called

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when someone is unconscious or has a suspected head injury.

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The helicopter has to be airborne in less than two minutes.

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Air crew officer John Legge, known as Leggy,

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is the last on board. He's got the map co-ordinates for the pilot.

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95, 6, 7.

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Leggy is a former RAF crew man from Liverpool.

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He did six tours of Afghanistan,

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airlifting wounded soldiers out of the battlefield.

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You do get the same kind of feeling. You still have that same sense

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of urgency. Somebody needs your help

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and so you want to get there as quickly as you can.

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In that respect, it is very similar.

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You are still in a helicopter at the end of the day, so you still

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have the same considerations whether you're in Afghanistan or whether

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you'd be in Sydney, but obviously you don't have the same threat levels.

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Today, Leggy and the medical team have been called out

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to a park in Sydney where a child has fallen out of a tree.

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CareFlight. There's a 12-year-old male fallen.

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-OVER RADIO:

-Affirmative, CareFlight.

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Further information, fall from a tree, head injury.

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Fallen six metres.

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LEGGY'S VOICE MUFFLED OVER RADIO

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There's no park coming up, so we'll just head there.

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It's Leggy's job to navigate for the pilot and help him

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find a good place to land.

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It's just inside the zone, mate.

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Just on the other side of this headland here.

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'There's a few things that I have to think about -

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'the distance it is and the bearing. If we're going to go into the city

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'then I'll need to tell air-traffic control before we go.'

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OK, it's this park, at 12 o'clock.

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-Someone's waving at us down here.

-Oh, yeah, there it is.

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They're all waving down there.

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Unlike on most British air ambulances, the doctor

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and the paramedic physically hang out of the aircraft,

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looking for the patient.

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'We train up our paramedics to be able to do conning,

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'which is a type of voice marshalling,

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'so we'll keep the doors open at the back, and it just helps us

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'with going into tight spaces.'

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You do have a power pole. It's just on the right-hand side.

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As long as there's no cross wires...

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30 below to the ground. Free to go down 20.

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Five, four, three, two, one.

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VOICE MUFFLED OVER RADIO

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Just six minutes after getting the call, the CareFlight Team is on

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the ground in one of Sydney's oldest parks, in the suburb of Cabarita.

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-Hi there.

-G'day.

-We might just get a bit of space back if we can.

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Just Mum... Mum or Dad here?

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He fell from a fair way up in the tree. Fell on his bottom.

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He's actually feeling quite a bit of a pain.

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Well, he said he can't feel his bottom right now.

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-Hi, Danial. Can you talk to me?

-He banged his head on the tree too.

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-We're just going to have a look at you and see how you are, OK?

-OK.

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My son, you know, he likes climbing and he just was climbing the tree.

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I think he was on the second branch, and he just fell

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and hit the back of his head and fell on the floor,

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and, yeah, everybody got panicked and they called an ambulance

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and everything. Hopefully, he's OK.

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-And where are you hurting at the moment, mate?

-My bottom.

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-Just your bottom? Did you hit your head at all, buddy?

-I'm not sure.

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You're not sure.

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-OK, and the main pain is just around your bottom region, is it?

-Yeah.

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OK, we're just going to have a look at your back and your bottom

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and we're just going to press on you. I just want you to tell me

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-if it's sore as the doctor pushes on you just gently, OK?

-OK.

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Ben Southers has been a paramedic for 12 years

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and Dr Andrew Weatherall is a paediatric specialist,

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so 13-year-old Danial could not be in better hands.

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So, Danial, you've probably done a whole lot of breathing

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-before in your life, yeah?

-Yeah.

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I just need you to do that again. There's no special tricks.

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I'm going to listen to your chest while you do it. You go right ahead.

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It's almost like you practice that most days of your life.

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Fantastic.

0:19:010:19:02

Can you tell me exactly which branch he was on?

0:19:030:19:06

He was right up the top and then he was just making his way down.

0:19:060:19:10

-I think it might have been that one.

-So maybe that one.

0:19:100:19:13

So maybe two to four metres.

0:19:130:19:15

-Yeah.

-He sort of came down that way, hitting his back

0:19:150:19:17

and then maybe the back of his head.

0:19:170:19:19

So, Danial, what we're going to do is roll you to the side.

0:19:190:19:21

Ben's going to count to number three to prove he can,

0:19:210:19:24

and then we'll all roll you.

0:19:240:19:25

You do lots of nothing.

0:19:250:19:27

Just put arms across your chest like this for me.

0:19:270:19:29

And while we're doing this, I'm going to have a little feel

0:19:290:19:32

along your back, and I just need you to tell me if it's sore when I feel.

0:19:320:19:35

-OK?

-OK.

-That's all you've got to do. You just speak to me. Easy?

-Yes.

0:19:350:19:39

-We're going to roll on three. One, two, three.

-OK.

0:19:390:19:43

So I'm going to have a little look along the back.

0:19:430:19:45

Can't see anything that looks nasty, so that's good.

0:19:450:19:48

-Get one of the coppers, then, to help us, do you reckon?

-Yeah.

0:19:480:19:51

Can we've some police officers to give us a hand? Thanks.

0:19:520:19:55

At the moment he looks completely stable.

0:19:570:19:59

He's had a reasonable fall, and the witnesses who were there

0:19:590:20:02

on the scene actually saw him hit the back of his head

0:20:020:20:04

on the way down on the branch of a tree,

0:20:040:20:06

but he remembers the whole thing, hasn't passed out at any stage and

0:20:060:20:09

at the moment is just complaining a bit of pain in his back,

0:20:090:20:11

so as a precaution we're going to take into the kids' hospital,

0:20:110:20:14

but I suspect it'll just be a boring afternoon for him

0:20:140:20:17

of getting checked out.

0:20:170:20:18

The journey from Cabarita Park to the children's hospital

0:20:200:20:22

takes at least 30 minutes by land ambulance.

0:20:220:20:25

The CareFlight chopper will cover the same distance in five.

0:20:250:20:29

Good afternoon, Mandy. We're departing the scene, trans 41,

0:20:290:20:33

paediatric fall, to West Main kids. ETA five minutes.

0:20:330:20:37

At the children's hospital, Danial is scanned and X-rayed.

0:20:390:20:43

Luckily for him, his bump on the head hasn't caused

0:20:430:20:46

any lasting damage.

0:20:460:20:47

Just hours later, he's back at home with his parents

0:20:490:20:52

and his sister, Sophia.

0:20:520:20:53

I couldn't even remember how it happened, how I fell.

0:20:550:20:59

I just remember seeing a woman and Mum crying,

0:20:590:21:02

and then I saw you crying, and then...

0:21:020:21:04

I felt shocked,

0:21:050:21:07

and scared, and the pain was a lot in my bottom. It hurt.

0:21:070:21:12

Yeah, I was on the ground and everybody was surrounding me.

0:21:120:21:15

My mum was crying and everybody was crying.

0:21:150:21:18

Then my friend's dad called the ambulance. He said...

0:21:180:21:22

I think he said that he's unconscious and he's on the ground.

0:21:220:21:25

He just had fallen out of the tree.

0:21:250:21:27

I had a few British doctors, and they were talking in British accents,

0:21:270:21:32

and they were really nice to me,

0:21:320:21:34

and no one's treated me that special before, cos they treated me so well.

0:21:340:21:40

I got to experience my first helicopter ride.

0:21:410:21:43

It was nice but I couldn't really see the view.

0:21:430:21:46

It was so far. They got us in the helicopter,

0:21:460:21:49

and then two minutes later I was on the ground.

0:21:490:21:52

I was amazed at how fast the trip was.

0:21:530:21:55

The pain in my tailbone, it still hurts quite a lot,

0:21:590:22:02

and I can't really sit down on hard objects,

0:22:020:22:05

or if I get tackled or something to do with that,

0:22:050:22:09

I might have to go to hospital again, but besides I feel better now.

0:22:090:22:14

At the Ambulance Service's main helicopter base in Sydney,

0:22:200:22:23

the medical team is on a mission which is very rarely

0:22:230:22:26

carried out by air in the UK.

0:22:260:22:29

They're bringing in a patient with an acute viral infection,

0:22:290:22:32

who's being kept alive by a machine which is doing

0:22:320:22:35

the work of his heart and lungs.

0:22:350:22:37

This patient has come in in respiratory failure.

0:22:370:22:39

Don't know exactly why but they're presuming it's some

0:22:390:22:42

kind of infection - possibly viral, possibly bacteria - so they're

0:22:420:22:45

treating him with antibiotics as well.

0:22:450:22:48

Dr Helen Oliver is an anaesthetist from London. She's working

0:22:480:22:52

in Australia for a year to get more experience of pre-hospital care.

0:22:520:22:56

He's on ECMO, which stands for extracorporeal membrane oxygenation,

0:22:560:23:01

so basically his lungs are not working,

0:23:010:23:04

so what they're doing is they're oxygenating his blood outside

0:23:040:23:07

of the body, using this circuit which you can see here.

0:23:070:23:09

That blood we want to sort of be coming out, pointing towards...

0:23:090:23:14

There's a very large cannula that's going into one of the major veins

0:23:140:23:19

in his neck. You can see the two tubes coming out.

0:23:190:23:22

One is carrying blood away from the body -

0:23:220:23:24

it's going through the machine, being oxygenated,

0:23:240:23:27

and the other tubes are carrying the oxygenated blood

0:23:270:23:29

back into his system, so it's basically bypassing his lungs.

0:23:290:23:32

It's doing the job of the lungs for him.

0:23:320:23:35

This stripped-down ECMO machine was developed

0:23:350:23:38

by the New South Wales Ambulance Service

0:23:380:23:41

during the SARS outbreak of 2009.

0:23:410:23:43

I've certainly never seen anything like this before.

0:23:430:23:47

Back home, routinely, all ECMO transfers are done by road.

0:23:470:23:50

In very special circumstances, they can be done by air,

0:23:500:23:53

but the military would take care of the aero-medical side of things,

0:23:530:23:56

so the medical retrieval service wouldn't get involved,

0:23:560:23:59

but it's quite standard here to do these sort of transfers by air,

0:23:590:24:02

just given the massive distances that we're dealing with

0:24:020:24:05

here in Australia.

0:24:050:24:06

Again, it's something new for me to see.

0:24:060:24:09

Moving an ECMO patient requires a large medical team.

0:24:100:24:14

The patient's going to St Vincent's, which is one of the ECMO centres

0:24:140:24:17

in Sydney, so we've got the ECMO team from St Vincent's,

0:24:170:24:22

who are basically in charge of establishing the system

0:24:220:24:26

and then maintaining it during the transfer.

0:24:260:24:28

The paramedics that are going to be driving the MPV vehicle

0:24:280:24:32

that you see, and then our retrieval team - our doctor and paramedic -

0:24:320:24:36

are with him as well.

0:24:360:24:37

Putting patients on the ECMO machine as soon as possible

0:24:370:24:39

has been shown to keep more people alive,

0:24:390:24:42

but like all medical procedures, it doesn't always work.

0:24:420:24:45

The patient in this case died in hospital.

0:24:460:24:49

In the Northern Territory, on the tip of the Gove Peninsula

0:24:560:24:59

400 miles from Darwin, lies the community of Yirrkala.

0:24:590:25:02

This is ancient Aboriginal land and is owned by indigenous families.

0:25:080:25:12

Yirrkala is home to Mandawuy Yunupingu,

0:25:140:25:17

the famous singer-songwriter.

0:25:170:25:19

He has chronic renal failure as a result of diabetes,

0:25:190:25:23

which is not uncommon amongst Aboriginal people.

0:25:230:25:25

He has to have dialysis at his community clinic three times a week

0:25:260:25:30

to stay alive.

0:25:300:25:31

I'm just going to check your blood pressure, Mandawuy.

0:25:310:25:35

Ten days ago, Mandawuy got an infection

0:25:350:25:38

and had to be flown to Darwin.

0:25:380:25:41

The doctors and nurses at the...

0:25:410:25:43

..main hospital in town

0:25:450:25:47

thought I would be better going to Darwin,

0:25:470:25:54

and they flew me on the CareFlight.

0:25:540:25:58

The doctor who flew with Mandawuy was Sarah McNeilly from London.

0:26:000:26:05

And then can you bend your hand back for me? That's fabulous.

0:26:050:26:09

She was an OK doctor, for a British one.

0:26:090:26:15

HE LAUGHS

0:26:150:26:17

She was quite friendly,

0:26:170:26:21

and I liked her.

0:26:210:26:23

'Pretty much all the patients up here are really nice patients to treat.'

0:26:230:26:27

They're generally really, you know, friendly, receptive, open.

0:26:270:26:32

Occasionally you get a grumpy patient but it do at home as well, you know.

0:26:320:26:36

When you're not feeling very well,

0:26:360:26:37

nobody particularly wants to be charming.

0:26:370:26:39

School's finished?

0:26:390:26:40

Mandawuy's infection clears up

0:26:420:26:45

and within days he's back into his routine at home in Yirrkala,

0:26:450:26:49

under the watchful eye of his dialysis nurse, Rowena,

0:26:490:26:51

who's also British.

0:26:510:26:52

I've been in Australia over 30 years.

0:26:540:26:57

My dream, when I went into nursing,

0:26:570:26:59

I wanted to be in the Royal Flying Doctor Service.

0:26:590:27:01

I thought it was very glamorous.

0:27:010:27:03

But when I came to Australia I got stuck into the city life,

0:27:030:27:05

so I think now I'm realising my dream of actually getting out

0:27:050:27:08

to the real Australia, into the bush.

0:27:080:27:10

When you come out to the communities, you see the people

0:27:100:27:13

where they should be. They're in their home.

0:27:130:27:15

And it's been a revelation for me, coming up to the Northern Territory.

0:27:150:27:19

There are obvious dangers in this part of the world, but one of the

0:27:230:27:27

biggest health risks for Aboriginal people is chronic renal failure

0:27:270:27:31

resulting from diabetes.

0:27:310:27:33

Indigenous people are three or four times more likely

0:27:330:27:36

to develop diabetes than the rest of the Australian population,

0:27:360:27:40

and then their kidneys are ten times more likely to stop working.

0:27:400:27:44

Renal failure's a problem

0:27:440:27:47

in most indigenous communities.

0:27:470:27:52

I think it's important for people like me

0:27:520:27:58

to spread the message.

0:27:580:28:01

Part of that message is that Aboriginal people with renal failure

0:28:010:28:04

need dialysis machines and nurses in their communities

0:28:040:28:08

so they don't have to move away to get treatment.

0:28:080:28:11

Mandawuy has been our first patient. We are still very new.

0:28:110:28:15

It's only been going three, four months.

0:28:150:28:18

And so he's my sort of guinea pig, and so we're learning together.

0:28:180:28:22

Family is everything to the Aboriginal people.

0:28:220:28:25

They're with their children and their grandchildren

0:28:250:28:28

and the family is kept together, and it's just so important to them.

0:28:280:28:31

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